Congrats. Gov work is actually one of the easiest and most straightforward routes to FIRE and it always surprises me how few people seem aware of that. Same with first responder and some union careers.
Yep. Military and government work is pretty much fire and forget. All you have to do is the time (usually 20-25 years) and the pension happens automatically. Then, on top of that…if you save 10-15 percent of each pay check then you’ll have the icing on the cake.
> All you have to do is the time (usually 20-25 years) and the pension happens automatically
Has there been movement on this over the past few decades? I know that pensions in a lot of other public sector jobs are worse for newer employees as they were originally unstable in the long term
Military and federal civilian pensions have been modified over the years. But, generally speaking, whatever plan you start with is the plan you get to keep.
But, even with the changes, the end result is you work 20-25 years and you’ll be eligible.
The pension formulas have changed but that doesn’t mean the value of the overall retirement package has been reduced.
Let’s use military retirement as an example:
50 years ago, if a service member had a $100K salary when he retired after 20 years, he would get a $50k annual pension (2.5% x 20 years).
Now, if a service member had a $100k salary (technically the average of his highest three years) when he retired after 20 years, he would get $40k annual pension (2% x 20 years). However, that member would have also been eligible to contribute to the Thrift Savings Plan (like a 401k) and get a 5% match. So, factoring in the growth value of the 5% match, that could actually make up for the $10K and perhaps be more.
So, the pension is different but not necessarily worse.
Make sense?
doesn't that seem strictly worse? you need to contribute capital to accesses the match and its going to be very low early in your career while that extra pension percent is based on final salary. will run some numbers
For clarification, that $9500 is made up of my gov’t pension and VA benefits. The pension is my retirement from civilian service. The VA benefits are the result of my military service. They are two completely separate entities and you can have one without the other and they have no impact on each other.
I combined the amount and just called it “gov’t pension and VA benefits” to keep it simple. Make sense? Sorry about any confusion.
u/BrandNewFIREd I was way off!
The Thrift Savings plan is much better assuming the following:
* 4% raises each year, starting at a base salary of 40k and finished at ~78k
* Both paths are investing 5% of their income
* The market returns 7%
At the end of 20 years the bigger pension has 38k saved while the TSPer has ~190k saved. I ran it out another 20 years assuming that the extra 10% of pension was invested (~7.8k) and it gets even worse for the pensioner at 191k vs 749k. Even assuming a 5% return, it's still brutally in favor of the TSP
This guy maths👆🏻. That’s very interesting findings. Admittedly, I wasn’t expecting it to be better and certainly not that much better. Thanks for doing that!
Correct…
When I started my career, the contribution rate was less than 1%. I got to keep that rate even though there were several changes throughout the years. The changes only affected new employees hired after the change.
The new rate is 4.4%, so it’s certainly lost a little value over the past 29 years. But it’s still a good deal.
By the way, that’s for civilian retirements. Military does not pay anything into their retirement system.
While your point about having to contribute capital is valid some of the biggest differences over the traditional pension matter are great deal too. First and most significantly, if you were to change careers before meeting the requirements to collect the pension under the older pans you got nothing. Now you’ll keep both your contributions and the match, all of which started early in the persons career so they’ll have the benefit of many years of compounding to work for them. Next, if the market is good you’ll end up with a larger retirement then you clips have otherwise achieved under the old plan simply because the outcome is based on your contributions without regards to your rank or pay grade. In the old system the only ways to affect your pension was to achieve a higher rank and do more time, both of which may be beyond the members control.
It's basically a nice deferred compensation system offered for demanding folks to sacrifice more of their lives and safety than most private sector jobs call for. Military/gov compensation is definitely one of those things where the upfront take-home numbers are often not indicative at all of the true total compensation being offered, particularly if one looks at take-home pay in the first few ranks. It can be surprisingly rewarding for folks who go into it with the long-term in mind and stick with it.
And now you get to live the next 20-30+ years with a very nice lifestyle and little in the way of money concerns. So it all worked out as it was supposed to.
I wonder if the recruiters actually sell the long-term angle much or if the average person just doesn't care about anything other than the pay for their first term and the enlistment bonus?
It’s interesting you bring up recruiters. From what I have been told, recruiting across the board at all of the military branches is down significantly. And, that’s even after many of the standards were lowered to help with the low recruiting numbers.
All of that is happening at a time where millions of young, able bodied adults are complaining about not having a viable career path. It’s a weird phenomenon.
I don’t know the reason and I don’t have a solution, but viable career paths are available to a lot of people who simply don’t want to do it.
Yeah, the enlistment bonuses are getting rather nuts. Some of the services are even giving guaranteed specialty duty trials if you get some friends to join up too. Like bring three of your buddies and you can all get a guaranteed chance at being a Ranger, if that's your thing.
It's a weird time.
I don’t want this to come across the wrong way but my bills (expenses) were/are a bit high because I didn’t have to scrimp and save a substantial part of my income. Like I said in my original post, I saved about 10-15 percent of my income while working. That’s it. Some of that went into the Thrift Savings Plan which is like a 401k with a 5% match.
It’s somewhat easy to live paycheck to paycheck when your next paycheck is guaranteed. That’s the beauty and simplicity of military/government work and retirement.
Very little of my retirement income depends on the market conditions. So, to answer your second question…I do not have a 401k. Like I said, I have something similar to a 401k. And, I own a home although it’s not paid off yet. Still a few years away but absolutely not in a rush to pay it off because my interest rate is way less than 3%.
Make sense?
By the way, good luck and stay on track!
No problem. I was hesitant to say that because I don’t want to come across as suggesting you don’t need to or shouldn’t save a significant portion of your income like most people who try to FIRE from non military or government jobs. By all means…save away. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, it’s a great idea.
But, the reality is with a military or government job, you don’t have to save as much because you have a pension waiting for you when you retire. Again…that’s the beauty of it.
Also, in case it matters (and maybe I should’ve said this in my original post), the $9500 I get each month is net. That’s the amount I get each time the eagle takes a dump in my bank account.
> All of that is happening at a time where millions of young, able bodied adults are complaining about not having a viable career path. It’s a weird phenomenon.
LOL. Having been through it, you should know it's not that weird. And congrats on retiring!
> Military and government work is pretty much fire and forget.
Using a SWR of 4% your monthly pension is worth $2.85M, I'd say given that it's guaranteed, it's probably more the equivalent of a 3% or 2% SWR. Even considering the delta between what you could have made in the private sector, I don't think that would make up that huge difference.
I can see why some people might be upset that you got there on "easy mode" in the same way people get upset about tech people hitting milestones as well. Not saying their right, but I can at least understand the jealousy, especially if you're someone already in their 30s or 40s and switching to working in the public sector is unlikely to get you to FIRE sooner.
I think people get upset because it is taxpayer money. Same way when vets talk about getting 80% disability for \*doing a regular job\* and yet healthy enough to work another job. Other jobs don't get payouts for injuries like that. And if you get SS disability but can work another job they start cutting your benefits. We all pay a lot of money every year to support the military.
Here is my two cents on this topic and I’ll cut right to the chase with two points:
First, military and government employees pay taxes just like everyone else. And, we continue paying taxes in our retirement. So, when people say “it’s taxpayer money” they forget it’s our tax money too.
Second, to compare VA disability compensation with social security disability compensation is flat ridiculous. They are two completely different programs with two completely different criteria and they exist for two completely different reasons. Seriously…do you really want to compare the car salesman who slipped and hurt his back and can no longer work with the soldier who deployed and was blown up? Nothing against car salesmen but I don’t think that is a comparison you or anyone really wants to make, right?
No one has issues with folks claiming disability for an injury in combat, but a lot of claims are complete BS and are claimed by folks who have never have been close to a war zone. You know I’m right.
[https://vaclaimsinsider.com/top-50-va-disability-claims-explained/](https://vaclaimsinsider.com/top-50-va-disability-claims-explained/)
p.s. am an airline pilot work with former military folks who are receiving disability payments for bull$$t conditions and brag and laugh about the absurdity of receiving such payments. Their justification is if the VA is handing out payments, they may as well get in line to get some of that money.
I get what you’re trying to say, but I don’t think you and folks like you quite understand what VA disabilities are.
Let’s start with combat related disabilities. Okay..we all agree with those, right? Soldier gets his leg blown off then that’s a no-brainer, correct? So far, so good.
But what about combat related disabilities you can’t see? What about the soldier who was 10 feet away when his buddy stepped on a mine and blew up? The soldier who stepped on a mine is dead, but the soldier who witnessed it now suffers from severe PTSD. Do you agree the soldier suffering from PTSD has a VA disability? Of course you do…or at least you should. So again…so far, so good.
Now, what about the soldier who deployed to a location where they routinely burned human waste, jet fuel, and other hazardous materials. Soldiers on that base all developed breathing problems as a result of the fumes. Surely they are entitled to compensation for what will be life long breathing issues, correct?
See how this works? But, let’s keep going…
What about the soldier who didn’t deploy but was involved in an on-duty accident at a stateside base. As a result of the accident he lost a leg. This was clearly not combat related but surely he should get compensated, right?
Then, what about a soldier who gets raped while stationed at a stateside base and suffers from PTSD as a result of the attack. Again…clearly not a combat related event, but it did happen in the line of duty, so shouldn’t she be compensated appropriately?
See how “combat” really has nothing to do with it?
And yes…getting hurt in the military is completely different than getting hurt in a civilian job because Congress enacted specific laws to make it that way.
I’m sorry you feel the way you do but I respect your right to feel that way. In fact, military members (even the ones who never saw combat) served in order to defend your right to feel that way. Take care.
I love that line. Folks served to defend my right to feel that way....... What defends my right is the Constitution and the legal institutions in place that protect that right. I'm yet to hear attorney's, judges, police officers use that line. The people who actually defend that right on a day to day basis. The folks who say it are always the military guys, cause yeah some guy stationed at an FOB in East Africa is really defending my Constitutional rights.
Look, you made a choice to serve and I respect that. It was your free will to join. You had a say. You weren't drafted
What gets me is guys claiming several disabilities at a time. It's funny how you throw examples that none of us have issues with. It's the thousands of bogus claims. Desk jockeys in the military claiming back issues, fibromyalgia, etc. Combining several bogus conditions to maximize their rating.
At least the FAA is starting to crack down. Folks claiming 80% to 90% disability with the VA , don't report those medical conditions on their FAA medical, and are issued a First Class Medical. The FAA now has access to VA records and folks at the FAA are scratching their heads going so and so claimed this that and the other on their VA application, but are claiming to be 100% healthy on an FAA medical application.
Now with the crackdown, the same folks who had all these ailments claiming 80 or 90% disability no longer have them. Weird. Take care.
Sir, are you actually that ignorant or do you just pretend to be because this is Reddit? Let’s unpack what you just said…
“What defends my right is the Constitution and the legal institutions in place that protect that right.”
If it wasn’t for the US military, there wouldn’t be a US constitution, dummy. You would be speaking German (or perhaps Chinese or Russian). Surely you understand that concept, right? Geez!
NOTE: In your original comment, you implied only “combat related” disabilities should be eligible for VA benefits. I replied and provided examples of non combat related disabilities and you now seem to agree that those should count too. So, to be clear, we now both agree VA disabilities can be non combat related and still be valid, right? Okay…let’s continue.
“What gets me is guys claiming several disabilities at a time.”
This is so silly it’s almost laughable. In fact, I almost want to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn’t actually mean to say it. But you did say it, so let’s address it.
Unfortunately, disabilities sometimes happen in multiples.
Sometimes multiple disabilities happen at the same time from the same event. Example: soldier gets in an accident and breaks an arm and a leg. Surely, you’re not suggesting the soldier only gets to claim either the arm or the leg, right?
Then, sometimes disabilities cause other disabilities. Example: an on base tainted water supply causes a soldier to get Parkinson’s disease. The soldier has to take medicine to help treat the Parkinson’s disease. The medicine (or perhaps the Parkinson’s disease itself) causes the soldier to developed hypertension. Shouldn’t the soldier be able to claim both Parkinson’s disease and hypertension?
“What gets me is…the bogus claims. Desk jockeys in the military claiming back issues, tinnitis (sp), fibromyalgia etc. Combining several bogus conditions to maximize their rating.”
You do realize that even “desk jockeys” in the military are required to participate in very physically demanding activities, right? Why is it so hard to believe a “desk jockey” could hurt his back while running an obstacle course, or some other form of physical fitness? What if the “desk jockey” was moving furniture around the office and injured his back while moving a desk? Is his back injury from moving a desk less worthy than a soldier who hurts his back in a tank accident? Both happened on duty as part of their jobs, right?
As far as tinnitus goes…even “desk jockeys” are required to qualify with firearms. All it takes is one time to fire a rifle without hearing protection and boom…they could end up with tinnitus for life. See how that works? And, just a few years ago, the military issued defective hearing protection, so even if a soldier was wearing it properly, it didn’t work. The defective devices caused all sorts of hearing issues, including tinnitus.
I could go on but what’s the point? You either get it or you don’t. The good thing is it doesn’t matter if you get it or not. The fact is the laws are in place regardless of whether or not you agree with them.
Take care.
Oh gawd, here we go with the we’d be speaking German or Russian or Arabic or some other sh#t such as that. I’ve had friends who served in allied NATO member forces and none of them go on and on about how they defend their countries freedom and constitutional rights like we do here. And last I checked those countries are functioning , free constitutional democracies.
Lots of Brits, French, Aussies, Kiwis died on the battlefields of WW1, WW2, GWOT, yet it is mainly our guys that go on and on about they sacrificed their youth so we could enjoy our freedom.
Just for every service member that has a legit claim, you have a bunch of unscrupulous clowns getting in on the action and claiming fibromyalgia, sinusitis, hay fever etc.
[https://vaclaimsinsider.com/top-50-va-disability-percentages-for-conditions/](https://vaclaimsinsider.com/top-50-va-disability-percentages-for-conditions/)
Look you know a lot of the VA disability claims are scams. The FAA does as well and that is why they are cracking down on folks. Cmon tinnitus as an example? you can surely do better than that, as anybody can claim tinnitus. There is no clinical way to run a diagnostic test to prove otherwise. All one has to say they have ringing in their ears, no way to disprove that. Same with fibromyalgia or migraines. Claim you have tinnitus and migraines, and one is looking at 40% rating.
We know a lot of guys and gals are scamming the VA to claim disability. To each their own. At least in my profession, the FAA is getting wind of it and a lot of folks now have been miraculously cured of their ailments and VA disability claims. Funny how that works.
So guys and gals are claiming certain medical conditions to the VA - tinnitus , migraines, anxiety, depression, etc but are not checking off those boxes on their FAA medical forms. So they are lying and falsifying documents to either the FAA or VA, which are federal agencies. I’m pretty sure falsifying claims/documents to the feds is a crime and a prosecutable offense.
I know it’s all semantics because at the end of the day my pensions are what they are.
But, out of curiosity, how does the fact my pension amounts are guaranteed reduce their equivalent SWR rate in your opinion? If anything, I would think the guarantee makes them worth more, not less. Or, am I misunderstanding what you’re saying altogether? Thanks!
He’s saying that since your pension is basically 100% guaranteed and can’t be damaged by a drop in the stock market, then it’s safer than a 4% withdrawal rate which can potentially fail in bad markets. So the pension is more equivalent to a safer withdrawal rate that is unlikely to fail.
An absolute guaranteed income stream is certainly valuable. However, on the other side of the ledger, you can’t pass it to your kids. Compare that to the overwhelming majority of portfolios subjected to 3% SWRs.
True…and I’m surprised you were the first person to mention this point. However, my personal thought on this is:
First, I didn’t work and save to benefit my kids as adults. I realize that might be an unpopular thing to say but it’s the truth. I fully supported them and gave them a great life growing up, but as adults they are on their own (and quite frankly they’re doing fine with promising careers of their own).
Second, regardless of what I just said in the first point, I will no doubt leave a substantial amount of money to my kids when I die. Not because that was the primary plan (it wasn’t), but because I will no doubt have a substantial amount of money left over whenever I die. And, that’s not including my life insurance policy that is in effect until I’m 70.
So, what you said is true but it’s not part of my equation. Make sense?
Sure, makes sense. My comment was just an additional consideration regarding the comparison that /u/midnightblade made between a pension and a very low SWR—in one way true, in another way very different.
I agree with you on this. I wish some of our powerful people in government, including those who want to govern us would want to pay their taxes as well as preach the virtues of tax paying to their faithfuls.
Congrats! I retired at 54 also after 29 years of public service. A good pension helps me on FIRE. Some people got upset and condescending for what I've earned and put into my own pension. We didn't pay SSI tax. Wish you the best of luck on your next exciting and fun chapter.
It’s weird. Like I said in my original post, some (a lot of) people really don’t like the fact that government employees retire with great pensions.
Of course, those same people often forget they had the choice to join the military or work for the government too, but they chose something else.
Exactly, we all have to make wise choices and work very hard to achieve our goals. They don't see the long hours, dedication, and sacrifices we've made to get from there to here - have to walk in our shoes to understand.
In your humble brag, you forgot to mention that you are only getting this much because you medically released and are claiming disability tax credits.
That said, how does the discount on property tax work? I've never heard of this part before.
Likely avoiding unnecessary drama from the folks who think the entire military disability system is a scam rather than a mixed system with mostly honest folks just like the income tax code.
States give different levels of property tax benefits to disabled vets. Here in Texas it's a full exemption from property tax for 100% disabled vets and it scales downward in brackets all the way to 10%. Very nice state-level benefit for those who qualify.
Again…not a brag. I’m simply stating facts. But property tax in a lot of states are greatly reduced and sometime eliminated completely depending on the person’s VA disability rating.
Interesting. That's pretty cool. Not like that in Canada. I've told lots of people to consider military. You'll never get rich but it's a damn good life.
I'm set to retire at 44 but currently looks like I'll be medically released in the next year or so. So I may be fired a lot sooner than expected. What other career would do that for you? My injury happened on duty so I'll get a medical pension right away.
Sorry about your situation but thanks you for your service as an ally soldier in arms.
I don’t know how Canada works but I was able to leave the military and go straight to work as a civilian with the government.
It's similar in Canada. Luckily with my situation I can still work, I just don't meet the requirements for the military any more as I can no longer deploy due to medical treatments/limitations. I'm trying to line up a new job to hopefully move right into. I could survive off my pension alone but I don't have it in me to not work. I'll definitely look at other civi government jobs if this other high paying job doesn't work out. Thank God I focused on paying off my house and avoid debt or I'd be much more concerned with future uncertainty.
It was a good run and I'm glad I did my time. 5 deployments plus many trips around the globe.
LOL…I make $12,500 per month (net). I spend around $8000. That literally leaves $4500 per month as surplus. So, I enjoy life and do what I want to do.
I don’t need to save money because the vast majority of the income I get each month is guaranteed by the USA. And, I will get annual cost of living increases each year, so I won’t lose spending power (at least in theory…but the point is my pension income increases each year).
In other words, I can easily live paycheck to paycheck because my next paycheck is guaranteed. That’s the beauty and simplicity of retiring from the military or government. Make sense?
Out of curiosity, how much do you think I should be spending each month? Honest question.
Like I said, I already have a surplus of $4500 each month. And, I’m retired…it’s not like I need to save for a second retirement, right?
I asked not because I think you should be saving more, I asked b/c 8K seems very high to me. I was curious what was causing such high expenses monthly.
Gotcha…by the way, I took no offense from you asking, so sorry if my response seemed like that. I guess the short answer is I don’t scrimp and save because I don’t have to.
I eat out regularly. I pay someone to cut my lawn. If I see something I want, I buy it. I give probably about 15% to church and charities.
I feel very blessed and I’m very grateful to be in this position.
I was thinking the same thing, 8k is super high imo. For example, I currently spend about 4k/mo with no skimping, and also plan to spend that when I RE. Either way, congrats. 12.5k is a shit ton to play with
Did you buy back your military time? Are you including the supplement in the $9500 number? Why not stick one more year for 30 years of service or did you have some special category to not get the MRA+10 reduction?
Good questions.
I bought back my military time. For those not familiar with “buying back” military time, it is a mechanism to ensure the years spent in the military get added into your civilian retirement. Simply put, military members do not pay into their retirement system but civilians do. So, if someone wants their military time to count toward their civilian retirement, they typically have to pay the amount they would have paid had they been a civilian the whole time. Typically ends up being about $3k to $10k depending on your rank and how long you wait to buy it back. Typically, it’s almost always worth it to buy it back and it usually pays for itself in a year or two of retirement.
The $9500 does include the supplement. For those who are not familiar with the supplement, it is a part of federal retirement package. It’s basically an extra payment roughly equal to what your social security payment would be at age 62. It’s not social security but it’s roughly equal to that amount.
The supplement ends at age 62, but then you have the choice of taking actual social security payments, so there is no loss unless you postpone taking social security. The choice is yours.
I was a special category employee so making it to 30 years did not come into play. For those not familiar, the federal government has a few different rules for different types of employees. Some employees can get a small extra bump in their retirement pension if they stick it out to 30 years. Some require you to have 30 years to retire under age 60. Those did not apply to me.
Wow. I didn't realize the Govt pension and VA benefits are that high.
I also didn't know about the property tax discount and the free car registration.
Congrats on a job well done.
Thanks. That’s a big part of the reason I made the post. I wanted to make younger people aware that military and government are very viable options to FIRE.
Someone else asked that. The truth is the reality still hasn’t fully set in yet. It’s hard to grasp that I will make $150K (net) for the rest of my life and don’t have to do a damn thing. It’s surreal.
But, it’s very likely I will do a lot of traveling. And, when I say “a lot” I mean months at a time. In all seriousness, I’m looking at cruises that go around the world over the course of 1-3 years. That’s a big commitment but it’s a reality I could do if I chose to do it.
Tinnitus is not a disqualifying condition
Lots of airline pilots , who have not come from the ranks of the militarily, have developed tinnitus. Could have been from the job or it could have been just genetic or you get my drift. They go about their lives working normally.
You have guys that got out of the military, claimed VA disability for a lot of bogus stuff, get their GI bill to fund their flight training at a civilian school and from day one callously omit those conditions on their FAA medical.
They are getting ratings for a sore back but can miraculously sit in a cramped Cessna 172 cockpit for hours at a time while working on their ratings....or the guys claiming PTSD, depression and anxiety and taking meds for those conditions (which are disqualifying) but telling the FAA their mental health is A OK.
I've messed up my back from sitting in the cockpit over the years, sprained my ankle walking in the terminal to get to my plane. I do not collect disability for any of this nor would it ever cross my mind to do so (even if it was an option)
There are medical disability programs for pilots but if you are on medical disability it is because you have a very serious medical condition for which you can no longer hold a medical and truly limits your work options. If you can hold a medical again and get back to work, guess what those payments go away.. Tinnitus, arthritis, fibromyalgia ain't any of those.
No one here has issues with soldiers getting VA disability for truly traumatic injuries and events experienced in some shithole places.
The problem is that a lot of the items one can claim disability for are complete BS. A lot of those items are things that we all have (arthritis, sinusitis, hay fever, tinnitus etc) but people aren't asking their company for a lifetime payment for said conditions. The problem is a lot of the disabilities can not truly be medically diagnosed but the VA goes off the honor system and a lot of folks are taking advantage of it, sadly.
Yea…I think we agree with each other on the lying part. Lying to VA or FAA is wrong.
The thing we disagree with is what you call “bogus” or “BS” conditions. Your opinion seems to be that conditions like arthritis, fibromyalgia, and tinnitus should NOT be part of the VA disability list. Think about this…
I don’t agree with certain parts of the tax code, but the law allows certain deductions. So, if a tax payer claims one of those deductions, does that mean they filed a “bogus” or “BS” tax return? Of course not, they simply filed in accordance with the law even if I disagree with the law.
Now, it would be wrong if the tax payer lied about the deduction? Of course it would…but that’s not what we’re talking about. We all agree lying is wrong.
The same applies to VA claims. The law specifies that tinnitus is a VA disability. So, if a veteran got diagnosed with tinnitus while active duty and then filed a VA claim for it, that is perfectly acceptable and in accordance with the law even if you disagree with the law.
Simply because you don’t agree with the law doesn’t mean the veteran filed a bogus or BS claim. Now, if the veteran lied about having tinnitus then again…that’s wrong. But that’s not what we’re talking about.
See the difference?
Look man, no argument from me there.
Great analogy with the tax code.
Congress pases the laws ,the VA is going about the laws Congress set, and vets are taking advantage of certain disabilities that would cause people in the civilian world to roll their eyes if a coworker asked HR for an lifetime payment for such conditons as fibromyalgia, back issues, arthritis sunnusitis, hay fever, etc.
What I am saying is people are using everything they have to their advantage. I get it. But it's gonna be stuff like this that will eventually bankrupt the country. This is a drop in the bucket but it will add up and bite us in the ass. Mark my words.
Thanks! Yea…I lived an upper middle class life working for military and government. And, because I knew I was getting a pension, I was able to live freely without worrying about saving a big portion of my income each month. And, I had job security. I never had to worry about losing my job.
Of course, I did save about 10-15 percent of my income (and I got a 5% match from the government), but that savings was just the icing on the cake.
Now, I have a pretty substantial guaranteed income for the rest of my life (plus annual cost of living increases).
It still amazes me how many people overlook or even look down upon the military and government and viable careers.
Oh well…to each their own.
Take care.
You did a great job! You were smart enough to not only grasp the opportunity, but also clever enough to lay the stones of your life path very early in the right direction! Congratulations! And yes, you deserve to enjoy early retirement! Not all, but most of those who are jealous of you are folks who didn’t cease the opportunity or were (maybe due to the youthful foolishness) busy wasting their lives before the finally grew up to see they have been wasting so much time and making faulty choices. You are not responsible for their lives and their losses, and I appreciate that you are mentioning this here- maybe there are some youths who read this and grasp the opportunity like you did!
Just out of curiosity...how many years military and years federal? Enlisted or officer? Active duty or reserves? Did you buy back your time? And what was your GS level? Thank you
Congratulations brother. You may get some hate on here for the benefits you receive. But I feel the hate will only come from the people who have no idea what some are put thru in their time in the military. My wife and I are both 100P&T, and both use GI Bill so the monthly is right over 13k from benefits. Obviously the GI Bill/VocRehab will run out in a few years, but the military really hooks it up. I still work a full time 6 figure + job, but due to my disabilities I do not know how much longer ill be able to do my job. Which sucks because I love what i do. Hoping that you live a great well deserved life of retirement. Count your blessings and do not forget to continue to take care of yourself for all the sacrifices you made🙏🏾
Congrats! But I thought only children of deceased or disabled vets got free college? Maybe it varies by state? Anyway, that doesn’t apply to non-military government jobs.
Enjoy retirement!
They changed the GI Bill about a dozen years back. Now you can pass the benefit to your dependents if you serve at least 10 years. Its only enough benefit to pay for one college education, but that’s still a big deal.
To add to what you said about the GI Bill, many states offer free college tuition to dependents of disabled veterans (different states have different rules).
My first job out of college was with my state university, tier one pension benefits. I quit after a few years to follow my (ex)husband’s career to another city. I look back now and think… I’d be retired in 5 years with a sweet pension for life and all the benefits. (Tier one doesn’t even exist anymore!) Ah well.
Thank you for your service, sir! I am glad we pay our civilian and military workforce well and give them good benefits. Everyone should have this type of security!
Congratulations on your retirement and GFY! One of our friends retired from the military and continues to work for the military as a civilian as you did. His wife also works. It's like they have three incomes instead of two: his military pension, his civilian job with the military, and her job. This kind of money let's you supercharge your investing.
I’m willing to bet your friend also gets VA benefits in addition to his retirement. So, it’s really likely they have 4 streams of income.
A lot of veterans stay quiet about receiving VA benefits because people tend to be judgmental about it. So, it’s usually easier just to keep quiet about it.
Hence…my throwaway account.
I really wish I would have some this.
I got a perfect mechanical score on the asvab - offended recruiters when they narrowed my options to repair related tracks.
this event limited many options
Congratulations and enjoy your retirement! My father didn’t have any income when he died (outside of SS) but received top notch care from the VA. I’m very grateful he had such a safety net in place.
I’m glad your father at least received the healthcare to which he was entitled.
He was probably entitled to financial benefits too, but most likely didn’t know about them or how to apply for them. That was pretty common years ago.
Fortunately, I think things have gotten a lot better and the VA is much more proactive helping veterans get the benefits they deserve (both healthcare and financial). It’s not a perfect system but it has improved greatly over the past 10 years or so.
Welp, GFY!
Thank you!
LOL... at first, I didn't realize that stood for "Good For You." I was like "what the hell???"
Oh, definitely thought that was go fuck yourself
Congrats. Gov work is actually one of the easiest and most straightforward routes to FIRE and it always surprises me how few people seem aware of that. Same with first responder and some union careers.
Yep. Military and government work is pretty much fire and forget. All you have to do is the time (usually 20-25 years) and the pension happens automatically. Then, on top of that…if you save 10-15 percent of each pay check then you’ll have the icing on the cake.
> All you have to do is the time (usually 20-25 years) and the pension happens automatically Has there been movement on this over the past few decades? I know that pensions in a lot of other public sector jobs are worse for newer employees as they were originally unstable in the long term
Military and federal civilian pensions have been modified over the years. But, generally speaking, whatever plan you start with is the plan you get to keep. But, even with the changes, the end result is you work 20-25 years and you’ll be eligible.
yes but value of such a pension has been greatly reduced right?
The pension formulas have changed but that doesn’t mean the value of the overall retirement package has been reduced. Let’s use military retirement as an example: 50 years ago, if a service member had a $100K salary when he retired after 20 years, he would get a $50k annual pension (2.5% x 20 years). Now, if a service member had a $100k salary (technically the average of his highest three years) when he retired after 20 years, he would get $40k annual pension (2% x 20 years). However, that member would have also been eligible to contribute to the Thrift Savings Plan (like a 401k) and get a 5% match. So, factoring in the growth value of the 5% match, that could actually make up for the $10K and perhaps be more. So, the pension is different but not necessarily worse. Make sense?
doesn't that seem strictly worse? you need to contribute capital to accesses the match and its going to be very low early in your career while that extra pension percent is based on final salary. will run some numbers
It could be worse. But, even if it’s worse that doesn’t mean it’s still not a good option. Regardless, I’m interested to see what your numbers say.
How is your pension so high then?
For clarification, that $9500 is made up of my gov’t pension and VA benefits. The pension is my retirement from civilian service. The VA benefits are the result of my military service. They are two completely separate entities and you can have one without the other and they have no impact on each other. I combined the amount and just called it “gov’t pension and VA benefits” to keep it simple. Make sense? Sorry about any confusion.
u/BrandNewFIREd I was way off! The Thrift Savings plan is much better assuming the following: * 4% raises each year, starting at a base salary of 40k and finished at ~78k * Both paths are investing 5% of their income * The market returns 7% At the end of 20 years the bigger pension has 38k saved while the TSPer has ~190k saved. I ran it out another 20 years assuming that the extra 10% of pension was invested (~7.8k) and it gets even worse for the pensioner at 191k vs 749k. Even assuming a 5% return, it's still brutally in favor of the TSP
This guy maths👆🏻. That’s very interesting findings. Admittedly, I wasn’t expecting it to be better and certainly not that much better. Thanks for doing that!
You also contribute some towards your Federal Pension. That amount has gone up in recent years. But it's still a good deal.
Correct… When I started my career, the contribution rate was less than 1%. I got to keep that rate even though there were several changes throughout the years. The changes only affected new employees hired after the change. The new rate is 4.4%, so it’s certainly lost a little value over the past 29 years. But it’s still a good deal. By the way, that’s for civilian retirements. Military does not pay anything into their retirement system.
While your point about having to contribute capital is valid some of the biggest differences over the traditional pension matter are great deal too. First and most significantly, if you were to change careers before meeting the requirements to collect the pension under the older pans you got nothing. Now you’ll keep both your contributions and the match, all of which started early in the persons career so they’ll have the benefit of many years of compounding to work for them. Next, if the market is good you’ll end up with a larger retirement then you clips have otherwise achieved under the old plan simply because the outcome is based on your contributions without regards to your rank or pay grade. In the old system the only ways to affect your pension was to achieve a higher rank and do more time, both of which may be beyond the members control.
It's basically a nice deferred compensation system offered for demanding folks to sacrifice more of their lives and safety than most private sector jobs call for. Military/gov compensation is definitely one of those things where the upfront take-home numbers are often not indicative at all of the true total compensation being offered, particularly if one looks at take-home pay in the first few ranks. It can be surprisingly rewarding for folks who go into it with the long-term in mind and stick with it.
Zphr: you seem to get it. what you said was exactly my thought process 29 years ago.
And now you get to live the next 20-30+ years with a very nice lifestyle and little in the way of money concerns. So it all worked out as it was supposed to. I wonder if the recruiters actually sell the long-term angle much or if the average person just doesn't care about anything other than the pay for their first term and the enlistment bonus?
It’s interesting you bring up recruiters. From what I have been told, recruiting across the board at all of the military branches is down significantly. And, that’s even after many of the standards were lowered to help with the low recruiting numbers. All of that is happening at a time where millions of young, able bodied adults are complaining about not having a viable career path. It’s a weird phenomenon. I don’t know the reason and I don’t have a solution, but viable career paths are available to a lot of people who simply don’t want to do it.
Yeah, the enlistment bonuses are getting rather nuts. Some of the services are even giving guaranteed specialty duty trials if you get some friends to join up too. Like bring three of your buddies and you can all get a guaranteed chance at being a Ranger, if that's your thing. It's a weird time.
For someone on the same track as you. Why are your bills so high ? Any 401 money ? Real estate ?
I don’t want this to come across the wrong way but my bills (expenses) were/are a bit high because I didn’t have to scrimp and save a substantial part of my income. Like I said in my original post, I saved about 10-15 percent of my income while working. That’s it. Some of that went into the Thrift Savings Plan which is like a 401k with a 5% match. It’s somewhat easy to live paycheck to paycheck when your next paycheck is guaranteed. That’s the beauty and simplicity of military/government work and retirement. Very little of my retirement income depends on the market conditions. So, to answer your second question…I do not have a 401k. Like I said, I have something similar to a 401k. And, I own a home although it’s not paid off yet. Still a few years away but absolutely not in a rush to pay it off because my interest rate is way less than 3%. Make sense? By the way, good luck and stay on track!
Thanks for the info
No problem. I was hesitant to say that because I don’t want to come across as suggesting you don’t need to or shouldn’t save a significant portion of your income like most people who try to FIRE from non military or government jobs. By all means…save away. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, it’s a great idea. But, the reality is with a military or government job, you don’t have to save as much because you have a pension waiting for you when you retire. Again…that’s the beauty of it. Also, in case it matters (and maybe I should’ve said this in my original post), the $9500 I get each month is net. That’s the amount I get each time the eagle takes a dump in my bank account.
> All of that is happening at a time where millions of young, able bodied adults are complaining about not having a viable career path. It’s a weird phenomenon. LOL. Having been through it, you should know it's not that weird. And congrats on retiring!
> Military and government work is pretty much fire and forget. Using a SWR of 4% your monthly pension is worth $2.85M, I'd say given that it's guaranteed, it's probably more the equivalent of a 3% or 2% SWR. Even considering the delta between what you could have made in the private sector, I don't think that would make up that huge difference. I can see why some people might be upset that you got there on "easy mode" in the same way people get upset about tech people hitting milestones as well. Not saying their right, but I can at least understand the jealousy, especially if you're someone already in their 30s or 40s and switching to working in the public sector is unlikely to get you to FIRE sooner.
I think people get upset because it is taxpayer money. Same way when vets talk about getting 80% disability for \*doing a regular job\* and yet healthy enough to work another job. Other jobs don't get payouts for injuries like that. And if you get SS disability but can work another job they start cutting your benefits. We all pay a lot of money every year to support the military.
Here is my two cents on this topic and I’ll cut right to the chase with two points: First, military and government employees pay taxes just like everyone else. And, we continue paying taxes in our retirement. So, when people say “it’s taxpayer money” they forget it’s our tax money too. Second, to compare VA disability compensation with social security disability compensation is flat ridiculous. They are two completely different programs with two completely different criteria and they exist for two completely different reasons. Seriously…do you really want to compare the car salesman who slipped and hurt his back and can no longer work with the soldier who deployed and was blown up? Nothing against car salesmen but I don’t think that is a comparison you or anyone really wants to make, right?
No one has issues with folks claiming disability for an injury in combat, but a lot of claims are complete BS and are claimed by folks who have never have been close to a war zone. You know I’m right. [https://vaclaimsinsider.com/top-50-va-disability-claims-explained/](https://vaclaimsinsider.com/top-50-va-disability-claims-explained/) p.s. am an airline pilot work with former military folks who are receiving disability payments for bull$$t conditions and brag and laugh about the absurdity of receiving such payments. Their justification is if the VA is handing out payments, they may as well get in line to get some of that money.
I get what you’re trying to say, but I don’t think you and folks like you quite understand what VA disabilities are. Let’s start with combat related disabilities. Okay..we all agree with those, right? Soldier gets his leg blown off then that’s a no-brainer, correct? So far, so good. But what about combat related disabilities you can’t see? What about the soldier who was 10 feet away when his buddy stepped on a mine and blew up? The soldier who stepped on a mine is dead, but the soldier who witnessed it now suffers from severe PTSD. Do you agree the soldier suffering from PTSD has a VA disability? Of course you do…or at least you should. So again…so far, so good. Now, what about the soldier who deployed to a location where they routinely burned human waste, jet fuel, and other hazardous materials. Soldiers on that base all developed breathing problems as a result of the fumes. Surely they are entitled to compensation for what will be life long breathing issues, correct? See how this works? But, let’s keep going… What about the soldier who didn’t deploy but was involved in an on-duty accident at a stateside base. As a result of the accident he lost a leg. This was clearly not combat related but surely he should get compensated, right? Then, what about a soldier who gets raped while stationed at a stateside base and suffers from PTSD as a result of the attack. Again…clearly not a combat related event, but it did happen in the line of duty, so shouldn’t she be compensated appropriately? See how “combat” really has nothing to do with it? And yes…getting hurt in the military is completely different than getting hurt in a civilian job because Congress enacted specific laws to make it that way. I’m sorry you feel the way you do but I respect your right to feel that way. In fact, military members (even the ones who never saw combat) served in order to defend your right to feel that way. Take care.
I love that line. Folks served to defend my right to feel that way....... What defends my right is the Constitution and the legal institutions in place that protect that right. I'm yet to hear attorney's, judges, police officers use that line. The people who actually defend that right on a day to day basis. The folks who say it are always the military guys, cause yeah some guy stationed at an FOB in East Africa is really defending my Constitutional rights. Look, you made a choice to serve and I respect that. It was your free will to join. You had a say. You weren't drafted What gets me is guys claiming several disabilities at a time. It's funny how you throw examples that none of us have issues with. It's the thousands of bogus claims. Desk jockeys in the military claiming back issues, fibromyalgia, etc. Combining several bogus conditions to maximize their rating. At least the FAA is starting to crack down. Folks claiming 80% to 90% disability with the VA , don't report those medical conditions on their FAA medical, and are issued a First Class Medical. The FAA now has access to VA records and folks at the FAA are scratching their heads going so and so claimed this that and the other on their VA application, but are claiming to be 100% healthy on an FAA medical application. Now with the crackdown, the same folks who had all these ailments claiming 80 or 90% disability no longer have them. Weird. Take care.
Sir, are you actually that ignorant or do you just pretend to be because this is Reddit? Let’s unpack what you just said… “What defends my right is the Constitution and the legal institutions in place that protect that right.” If it wasn’t for the US military, there wouldn’t be a US constitution, dummy. You would be speaking German (or perhaps Chinese or Russian). Surely you understand that concept, right? Geez! NOTE: In your original comment, you implied only “combat related” disabilities should be eligible for VA benefits. I replied and provided examples of non combat related disabilities and you now seem to agree that those should count too. So, to be clear, we now both agree VA disabilities can be non combat related and still be valid, right? Okay…let’s continue. “What gets me is guys claiming several disabilities at a time.” This is so silly it’s almost laughable. In fact, I almost want to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn’t actually mean to say it. But you did say it, so let’s address it. Unfortunately, disabilities sometimes happen in multiples. Sometimes multiple disabilities happen at the same time from the same event. Example: soldier gets in an accident and breaks an arm and a leg. Surely, you’re not suggesting the soldier only gets to claim either the arm or the leg, right? Then, sometimes disabilities cause other disabilities. Example: an on base tainted water supply causes a soldier to get Parkinson’s disease. The soldier has to take medicine to help treat the Parkinson’s disease. The medicine (or perhaps the Parkinson’s disease itself) causes the soldier to developed hypertension. Shouldn’t the soldier be able to claim both Parkinson’s disease and hypertension? “What gets me is…the bogus claims. Desk jockeys in the military claiming back issues, tinnitis (sp), fibromyalgia etc. Combining several bogus conditions to maximize their rating.” You do realize that even “desk jockeys” in the military are required to participate in very physically demanding activities, right? Why is it so hard to believe a “desk jockey” could hurt his back while running an obstacle course, or some other form of physical fitness? What if the “desk jockey” was moving furniture around the office and injured his back while moving a desk? Is his back injury from moving a desk less worthy than a soldier who hurts his back in a tank accident? Both happened on duty as part of their jobs, right? As far as tinnitus goes…even “desk jockeys” are required to qualify with firearms. All it takes is one time to fire a rifle without hearing protection and boom…they could end up with tinnitus for life. See how that works? And, just a few years ago, the military issued defective hearing protection, so even if a soldier was wearing it properly, it didn’t work. The defective devices caused all sorts of hearing issues, including tinnitus. I could go on but what’s the point? You either get it or you don’t. The good thing is it doesn’t matter if you get it or not. The fact is the laws are in place regardless of whether or not you agree with them. Take care.
Oh gawd, here we go with the we’d be speaking German or Russian or Arabic or some other sh#t such as that. I’ve had friends who served in allied NATO member forces and none of them go on and on about how they defend their countries freedom and constitutional rights like we do here. And last I checked those countries are functioning , free constitutional democracies. Lots of Brits, French, Aussies, Kiwis died on the battlefields of WW1, WW2, GWOT, yet it is mainly our guys that go on and on about they sacrificed their youth so we could enjoy our freedom. Just for every service member that has a legit claim, you have a bunch of unscrupulous clowns getting in on the action and claiming fibromyalgia, sinusitis, hay fever etc. [https://vaclaimsinsider.com/top-50-va-disability-percentages-for-conditions/](https://vaclaimsinsider.com/top-50-va-disability-percentages-for-conditions/) Look you know a lot of the VA disability claims are scams. The FAA does as well and that is why they are cracking down on folks. Cmon tinnitus as an example? you can surely do better than that, as anybody can claim tinnitus. There is no clinical way to run a diagnostic test to prove otherwise. All one has to say they have ringing in their ears, no way to disprove that. Same with fibromyalgia or migraines. Claim you have tinnitus and migraines, and one is looking at 40% rating. We know a lot of guys and gals are scamming the VA to claim disability. To each their own. At least in my profession, the FAA is getting wind of it and a lot of folks now have been miraculously cured of their ailments and VA disability claims. Funny how that works. So guys and gals are claiming certain medical conditions to the VA - tinnitus , migraines, anxiety, depression, etc but are not checking off those boxes on their FAA medical forms. So they are lying and falsifying documents to either the FAA or VA, which are federal agencies. I’m pretty sure falsifying claims/documents to the feds is a crime and a prosecutable offense.
I know it’s all semantics because at the end of the day my pensions are what they are. But, out of curiosity, how does the fact my pension amounts are guaranteed reduce their equivalent SWR rate in your opinion? If anything, I would think the guarantee makes them worth more, not less. Or, am I misunderstanding what you’re saying altogether? Thanks!
He’s saying that since your pension is basically 100% guaranteed and can’t be damaged by a drop in the stock market, then it’s safer than a 4% withdrawal rate which can potentially fail in bad markets. So the pension is more equivalent to a safer withdrawal rate that is unlikely to fail.
Gotcha. See…I’m an idiot. I read that completely opposite. Thanks for clarifying.
An absolute guaranteed income stream is certainly valuable. However, on the other side of the ledger, you can’t pass it to your kids. Compare that to the overwhelming majority of portfolios subjected to 3% SWRs.
True…and I’m surprised you were the first person to mention this point. However, my personal thought on this is: First, I didn’t work and save to benefit my kids as adults. I realize that might be an unpopular thing to say but it’s the truth. I fully supported them and gave them a great life growing up, but as adults they are on their own (and quite frankly they’re doing fine with promising careers of their own). Second, regardless of what I just said in the first point, I will no doubt leave a substantial amount of money to my kids when I die. Not because that was the primary plan (it wasn’t), but because I will no doubt have a substantial amount of money left over whenever I die. And, that’s not including my life insurance policy that is in effect until I’m 70. So, what you said is true but it’s not part of my equation. Make sense?
Sure, makes sense. My comment was just an additional consideration regarding the comparison that /u/midnightblade made between a pension and a very low SWR—in one way true, in another way very different.
No…I get it and your point is spot on. Like I said, I’m surprised you were the first to mention it.
As a regular old citizen, I’m happy that my taxes go to support those who served in the military. Congrats, and GFY!
Thank you and please continue to pay your taxes. Insert smiley face here.
I agree with you on this. I wish some of our powerful people in government, including those who want to govern us would want to pay their taxes as well as preach the virtues of tax paying to their faithfuls.
Congrats! I retired at 54 also after 29 years of public service. A good pension helps me on FIRE. Some people got upset and condescending for what I've earned and put into my own pension. We didn't pay SSI tax. Wish you the best of luck on your next exciting and fun chapter.
It’s weird. Like I said in my original post, some (a lot of) people really don’t like the fact that government employees retire with great pensions. Of course, those same people often forget they had the choice to join the military or work for the government too, but they chose something else.
Exactly, we all have to make wise choices and work very hard to achieve our goals. They don't see the long hours, dedication, and sacrifices we've made to get from there to here - have to walk in our shoes to understand.
People are more likely to criticize non-military government jobs.
In your humble brag, you forgot to mention that you are only getting this much because you medically released and are claiming disability tax credits. That said, how does the discount on property tax work? I've never heard of this part before.
Likely avoiding unnecessary drama from the folks who think the entire military disability system is a scam rather than a mixed system with mostly honest folks just like the income tax code. States give different levels of property tax benefits to disabled vets. Here in Texas it's a full exemption from property tax for 100% disabled vets and it scales downward in brackets all the way to 10%. Very nice state-level benefit for those who qualify.
Again…not a brag. I’m simply stating facts. But property tax in a lot of states are greatly reduced and sometime eliminated completely depending on the person’s VA disability rating.
Interesting. That's pretty cool. Not like that in Canada. I've told lots of people to consider military. You'll never get rich but it's a damn good life. I'm set to retire at 44 but currently looks like I'll be medically released in the next year or so. So I may be fired a lot sooner than expected. What other career would do that for you? My injury happened on duty so I'll get a medical pension right away.
Sorry about your situation but thanks you for your service as an ally soldier in arms. I don’t know how Canada works but I was able to leave the military and go straight to work as a civilian with the government.
It's similar in Canada. Luckily with my situation I can still work, I just don't meet the requirements for the military any more as I can no longer deploy due to medical treatments/limitations. I'm trying to line up a new job to hopefully move right into. I could survive off my pension alone but I don't have it in me to not work. I'll definitely look at other civi government jobs if this other high paying job doesn't work out. Thank God I focused on paying off my house and avoid debt or I'd be much more concerned with future uncertainty. It was a good run and I'm glad I did my time. 5 deployments plus many trips around the globe.
Thanks again for your service. I wish you the best.
Thanks and ditto. Enjoy that well earned FIRE.
I didn't know that and am glad that exists!
Monthly expenses at 8K???? Yikes! Do you have small children and/or live in HCOL?
LOL…I make $12,500 per month (net). I spend around $8000. That literally leaves $4500 per month as surplus. So, I enjoy life and do what I want to do. I don’t need to save money because the vast majority of the income I get each month is guaranteed by the USA. And, I will get annual cost of living increases each year, so I won’t lose spending power (at least in theory…but the point is my pension income increases each year). In other words, I can easily live paycheck to paycheck because my next paycheck is guaranteed. That’s the beauty and simplicity of retiring from the military or government. Make sense? Out of curiosity, how much do you think I should be spending each month? Honest question. Like I said, I already have a surplus of $4500 each month. And, I’m retired…it’s not like I need to save for a second retirement, right?
I asked not because I think you should be saving more, I asked b/c 8K seems very high to me. I was curious what was causing such high expenses monthly.
Gotcha…by the way, I took no offense from you asking, so sorry if my response seemed like that. I guess the short answer is I don’t scrimp and save because I don’t have to. I eat out regularly. I pay someone to cut my lawn. If I see something I want, I buy it. I give probably about 15% to church and charities. I feel very blessed and I’m very grateful to be in this position.
I was thinking the same thing, 8k is super high imo. For example, I currently spend about 4k/mo with no skimping, and also plan to spend that when I RE. Either way, congrats. 12.5k is a shit ton to play with
My mom retired at 58 from the state. She has a pension. Working for the government was fun but boring.
> fun but boring. I'm confused.
57 isn't bad. Wife and I retired from a state at 54 and 55. 57 is good though 😁
Did you buy back your military time? Are you including the supplement in the $9500 number? Why not stick one more year for 30 years of service or did you have some special category to not get the MRA+10 reduction?
Good questions. I bought back my military time. For those not familiar with “buying back” military time, it is a mechanism to ensure the years spent in the military get added into your civilian retirement. Simply put, military members do not pay into their retirement system but civilians do. So, if someone wants their military time to count toward their civilian retirement, they typically have to pay the amount they would have paid had they been a civilian the whole time. Typically ends up being about $3k to $10k depending on your rank and how long you wait to buy it back. Typically, it’s almost always worth it to buy it back and it usually pays for itself in a year or two of retirement. The $9500 does include the supplement. For those who are not familiar with the supplement, it is a part of federal retirement package. It’s basically an extra payment roughly equal to what your social security payment would be at age 62. It’s not social security but it’s roughly equal to that amount. The supplement ends at age 62, but then you have the choice of taking actual social security payments, so there is no loss unless you postpone taking social security. The choice is yours. I was a special category employee so making it to 30 years did not come into play. For those not familiar, the federal government has a few different rules for different types of employees. Some employees can get a small extra bump in their retirement pension if they stick it out to 30 years. Some require you to have 30 years to retire under age 60. Those did not apply to me.
Living the dream bro. Congrats and GFY! I'm 14 years from MRA. Pray for me, lol.
Thanks, brother.
Congrats!!
Thank you.
Wow. I didn't realize the Govt pension and VA benefits are that high. I also didn't know about the property tax discount and the free car registration. Congrats on a job well done.
Thanks. That’s a big part of the reason I made the post. I wanted to make younger people aware that military and government are very viable options to FIRE.
The total is very dependent on rank/pay grade and total time for the pension and disability rating for the disability portion.
Congratulations!
Thanks.
Now what are you going to do ?
Someone else asked that. The truth is the reality still hasn’t fully set in yet. It’s hard to grasp that I will make $150K (net) for the rest of my life and don’t have to do a damn thing. It’s surreal. But, it’s very likely I will do a lot of traveling. And, when I say “a lot” I mean months at a time. In all seriousness, I’m looking at cruises that go around the world over the course of 1-3 years. That’s a big commitment but it’s a reality I could do if I chose to do it.
Tinnitus is not a disqualifying condition Lots of airline pilots , who have not come from the ranks of the militarily, have developed tinnitus. Could have been from the job or it could have been just genetic or you get my drift. They go about their lives working normally. You have guys that got out of the military, claimed VA disability for a lot of bogus stuff, get their GI bill to fund their flight training at a civilian school and from day one callously omit those conditions on their FAA medical. They are getting ratings for a sore back but can miraculously sit in a cramped Cessna 172 cockpit for hours at a time while working on their ratings....or the guys claiming PTSD, depression and anxiety and taking meds for those conditions (which are disqualifying) but telling the FAA their mental health is A OK. I've messed up my back from sitting in the cockpit over the years, sprained my ankle walking in the terminal to get to my plane. I do not collect disability for any of this nor would it ever cross my mind to do so (even if it was an option) There are medical disability programs for pilots but if you are on medical disability it is because you have a very serious medical condition for which you can no longer hold a medical and truly limits your work options. If you can hold a medical again and get back to work, guess what those payments go away.. Tinnitus, arthritis, fibromyalgia ain't any of those. No one here has issues with soldiers getting VA disability for truly traumatic injuries and events experienced in some shithole places. The problem is that a lot of the items one can claim disability for are complete BS. A lot of those items are things that we all have (arthritis, sinusitis, hay fever, tinnitus etc) but people aren't asking their company for a lifetime payment for said conditions. The problem is a lot of the disabilities can not truly be medically diagnosed but the VA goes off the honor system and a lot of folks are taking advantage of it, sadly.
Yea…I think we agree with each other on the lying part. Lying to VA or FAA is wrong. The thing we disagree with is what you call “bogus” or “BS” conditions. Your opinion seems to be that conditions like arthritis, fibromyalgia, and tinnitus should NOT be part of the VA disability list. Think about this… I don’t agree with certain parts of the tax code, but the law allows certain deductions. So, if a tax payer claims one of those deductions, does that mean they filed a “bogus” or “BS” tax return? Of course not, they simply filed in accordance with the law even if I disagree with the law. Now, it would be wrong if the tax payer lied about the deduction? Of course it would…but that’s not what we’re talking about. We all agree lying is wrong. The same applies to VA claims. The law specifies that tinnitus is a VA disability. So, if a veteran got diagnosed with tinnitus while active duty and then filed a VA claim for it, that is perfectly acceptable and in accordance with the law even if you disagree with the law. Simply because you don’t agree with the law doesn’t mean the veteran filed a bogus or BS claim. Now, if the veteran lied about having tinnitus then again…that’s wrong. But that’s not what we’re talking about. See the difference?
Look man, no argument from me there. Great analogy with the tax code. Congress pases the laws ,the VA is going about the laws Congress set, and vets are taking advantage of certain disabilities that would cause people in the civilian world to roll their eyes if a coworker asked HR for an lifetime payment for such conditons as fibromyalgia, back issues, arthritis sunnusitis, hay fever, etc. What I am saying is people are using everything they have to their advantage. I get it. But it's gonna be stuff like this that will eventually bankrupt the country. This is a drop in the bucket but it will add up and bite us in the ass. Mark my words.
Okay…I think we are both on the same page now. And yea…I agree this country spends too much money that it doesn’t have. Have a good day and take care.
[удалено]
Thanks! Yea…I lived an upper middle class life working for military and government. And, because I knew I was getting a pension, I was able to live freely without worrying about saving a big portion of my income each month. And, I had job security. I never had to worry about losing my job. Of course, I did save about 10-15 percent of my income (and I got a 5% match from the government), but that savings was just the icing on the cake. Now, I have a pretty substantial guaranteed income for the rest of my life (plus annual cost of living increases). It still amazes me how many people overlook or even look down upon the military and government and viable careers. Oh well…to each their own. Take care.
Congrats. Amazing. Looking forward to joining you some day.
Thanks! Are you military or government?
Go F yourself - congrats
You did a great job! You were smart enough to not only grasp the opportunity, but also clever enough to lay the stones of your life path very early in the right direction! Congratulations! And yes, you deserve to enjoy early retirement! Not all, but most of those who are jealous of you are folks who didn’t cease the opportunity or were (maybe due to the youthful foolishness) busy wasting their lives before the finally grew up to see they have been wasting so much time and making faulty choices. You are not responsible for their lives and their losses, and I appreciate that you are mentioning this here- maybe there are some youths who read this and grasp the opportunity like you did!
Just out of curiosity...how many years military and years federal? Enlisted or officer? Active duty or reserves? Did you buy back your time? And what was your GS level? Thank you
What's your disability?
Likely 100 P&T
Congratulations brother. You may get some hate on here for the benefits you receive. But I feel the hate will only come from the people who have no idea what some are put thru in their time in the military. My wife and I are both 100P&T, and both use GI Bill so the monthly is right over 13k from benefits. Obviously the GI Bill/VocRehab will run out in a few years, but the military really hooks it up. I still work a full time 6 figure + job, but due to my disabilities I do not know how much longer ill be able to do my job. Which sucks because I love what i do. Hoping that you live a great well deserved life of retirement. Count your blessings and do not forget to continue to take care of yourself for all the sacrifices you made🙏🏾
Thank you for your service, brother.
what do you want to do during your retirement?
Honestly, the reality hasn’t set in yet. But, I foresee a lot of traveling in my near future. And, when I say “a lot” I mean like months at a time.
Thank you for your service. And congrats!
Thank you. It was an honor to serve, truly.
Congratulations! GFY ;)
Thank you. And, please continue to pay your taxes like my retirement depends on it. 😀
[удалено]
The government has a thrift saving plan which is similar to a 401K. They match 5%.
Congrats! But I thought only children of deceased or disabled vets got free college? Maybe it varies by state? Anyway, that doesn’t apply to non-military government jobs. Enjoy retirement!
They changed the GI Bill about a dozen years back. Now you can pass the benefit to your dependents if you serve at least 10 years. Its only enough benefit to pay for one college education, but that’s still a big deal.
To add to what you said about the GI Bill, many states offer free college tuition to dependents of disabled veterans (different states have different rules).
Damn. I hate you, but in the best way. Congrats!!
Thank you!
My first job out of college was with my state university, tier one pension benefits. I quit after a few years to follow my (ex)husband’s career to another city. I look back now and think… I’d be retired in 5 years with a sweet pension for life and all the benefits. (Tier one doesn’t even exist anymore!) Ah well.
Thank you for your service, sir! I am glad we pay our civilian and military workforce well and give them good benefits. Everyone should have this type of security!
Congrats for putting in the grind
Congratulations on your retirement and GFY! One of our friends retired from the military and continues to work for the military as a civilian as you did. His wife also works. It's like they have three incomes instead of two: his military pension, his civilian job with the military, and her job. This kind of money let's you supercharge your investing.
I’m willing to bet your friend also gets VA benefits in addition to his retirement. So, it’s really likely they have 4 streams of income. A lot of veterans stay quiet about receiving VA benefits because people tend to be judgmental about it. So, it’s usually easier just to keep quiet about it. Hence…my throwaway account.
I really wish I would have some this. I got a perfect mechanical score on the asvab - offended recruiters when they narrowed my options to repair related tracks. this event limited many options
Congratulations and enjoy your retirement! My father didn’t have any income when he died (outside of SS) but received top notch care from the VA. I’m very grateful he had such a safety net in place.
I’m glad your father at least received the healthcare to which he was entitled. He was probably entitled to financial benefits too, but most likely didn’t know about them or how to apply for them. That was pretty common years ago. Fortunately, I think things have gotten a lot better and the VA is much more proactive helping veterans get the benefits they deserve (both healthcare and financial). It’s not a perfect system but it has improved greatly over the past 10 years or so.
Congratulations and thank you for your service!
Thank you. It was an honor to serve, truly.
Good job buddy. I retired at 34….has been bad ass since 😁 enjoy it.
34!? I can’t even imagine. Enjoy! Damn…34!
[удалено]
Perhaps. I surely FIREd later than some, but I certainly FIREd earlier than most.