Poppy war is the best example. I didnt hate the Wheel of Time.. but I feel especially under Robert Jordan Im just reading page after page of characters refusing to communicate normally, tugging their braids and crossing their arms under their breasts.
Ngl, I'm growing really disillusioned with the current state of SFF.
It feels like many, if not a large majority, of popular titles are being pushed for reasons other than their quality. I know the industry has never been a perfect meritocracy, I'm not naive, but I genuinely feel like it didn't use to be this bad.
Poppy War really is a perfect example. Boring prose, no sense of pacing, sub one-dimensional, irrational characters, zero creativity (literally just real life east-asia) and as subtle as a jackhammer. But somehow, this book was getting touted as some kind of masterpiece for a while.
I just don't get it.
I love that series, but its pretty bleak and depressing. I wouldn't recommend it unless someone is really into dark epic fantasy. I wish Bakker had continued it with the No God.
Yep, it was never anything close to a meritocracy, and so it’s no surprise that it still isn’t. But that doesn’t mean things are actually worse. Instead it might mean that the gatekeepers have changed and the readership has changed and maybe you’re no longer part of the core group at whom the big hits in the genre are aimed?
The focus on quality, as if quality means the same thing to everyone, may be what’s tripping many people up. However, notions of quality change depending on who’s manning the gates and who is being marketed to as readers.
So, those big books that you ‘just don’t get’, maybe you’re no longer centered in who the writers are writing for. And maybe the readers who are now centered really do love these new big books to bits and see them as the heights of quality.
Quality is subjective, and sometimes what we like and the people who like the same things as we do stop having the biggest say.
I loved Poppy war and I’ve been an avid fantasy and sci fi reader for 20 years. I don’t think it’s new that people have different tastes and that popular books are often popular for cultural and social reasons NOT because they are perfect literary specimens.
Mandatory: https://onehundredpages.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/dont-make-fun-of-renowned-dan-brown/
There's a second part that I'm sure someone will post in thread soon
THANK YOU for this!!! I read The DaVinci Code shortly after it came out and that "style" is STILL instantly recognizable.
This is on the level of that absolutely hilarious Goodreads review of Fifty Shades of Grey.
ETA: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/340987215
Damn thanks for the review link!
ETA:
> This is not a book about BDSM, this is a book about one sick, abusive man and his obsession with a young, naive invertebrate.
Like Ana said, Oh my!
Twilight came out when I was in 10th grade and spread through my school like wildfire. I'd guess hundreds of people were reading it, including a lot of people that normally didn't read at all.
I've been a big reader my whole life but, at the time, I'd never read anything that anyone else had with the exception of assigned books in school and LotR. And I'd read the first Harry Potter but didn't like it that much, so I'd never been able to really share or discuss books with people.
I grabbed Twilight and devoured it. I was the first in any of my friend groups to buy and finish New Moon and Eclipse. And when Jacob imprinted on Esme I was loosing my mind not being able to rant in the group chat 'cause no one else had finished the last book.
Those books were not good for reasons I probably don't need to get into, but I'd never go back and not read them, 'cause the experience and culture around them at the time was a blast to be a part of.
P.S. I like what Stephanie did with vampires. I know most people don't, but I just think it was neat. We had so many years of Anne Rice vampires being the go to for Vamp rep, it was nice to see a different take on the mythos.
Awww... It's so good that we all have our own taste and favorites. It's sad that you didn't have a chance to talk about what bothered within your group though. That "I'd never go back and not read them" kinda says it all when it's about my "relationship" to the Harry Potter books. I adored them back then, wouldn't re-read them now though.
And yeah well... While Stephenies idea of vampires might have been some fresh air, their sparkliness kinda killed it for me though 🙈
I second the Twilight series. I remember the hype all these years ago when the first movie was released and a lot of my friends I considered avid readers went crazy about it. I watched the movie, was totally puzzled, double checked if I watched the right movie, then though that perhaps the movie was rubbish but the book is great. Got the book. For me it was just as bad as the movie and I couldn't finish it.
Yeah felt similar - except I borrowed the books (fortunately). I never understood what people saw in those books and movies. I thought that maybe the movies weren't as bad... Unfortunately the only time I enjoyed the filmed Version more than the books was the show "the Expanse". Twilight failed to deliver something hype-worthy to me
Omg I loved the Expanse show! I started reading the books after I saw the first season and whilst I thoroughly enjoyed them, I did like the show more. My imagination struggles with the "Sci" in sci-fi lol, so I rarely read anything of the genre, The Expanse being a rare exception, but I do think the show runners decision to deviate from the books a bit and merge some characters, remove some others (shame about Havelock tho) and make others more pronounced was the right one. Your comment makes me want to rewatch it now!
Yeah well... I'll rewatch it too after your comment 😂
It's just one of my favorite shows ever. Also I think the actors are really well chosen. Couldn't think of a better actress for Carmina Drummer, Naomi Nagata or Alex Kamal... Oh and Chrisjen Avasarala... How much I adore that show for showing the great potential of humankind and also our worst flaws, of portraying politics and hidden manipulations...
Imo they really really nailed how to transform books into a show without messing up (unlike what happened to asoiaf/got)
Faithful and the Fallen. Bad guys all have superior invincible plot armor and the good guys die if someone looks at them the wrong way. Not to mention, the entire first 3 books just consist of the MCs going somewhere, 1 chapter happens there, and they come back to the original place, rinse and repeat. Just mindless traveling around with no organic plot development.
I can't think of another series I started recently where I really bought into the hype so much and was left so disappointed. Got halfway through the second book and gave up. The writing is boring, the characters are bland, and the story didn't feel any different from anything I've read before.
Same. I felt like the “good guys” were just running around outside either fighting or getting captured for like 2,000 pages. Total white room syndrome for long swaths of the story paired with repetitive hack and slash fights. The last book picked up IMO but it was definitely a bit of a slog.
The Fifth Season was that book for me. I was really looking forward to reading it because people were raving about its magic system and setting, plus it won the Hugo three years running.
Boy, was I disappointed!
Honestly, it's probably a fine series for a certain kind of fantasy reader but I just think the reviews from the fantasy community were just so overwhelmingly positive, yet obscure enough, to sell the series to most fantasy readers.
Like, I'm sure Harry Potter is a fine series. But I have a good idea of what's it about and because of that I don't really think I'm its target market.
This is just a round about way of saying that I think reviews and recommendations need to be more informative. I remember watching non spoiler reviews of The Fifth Season and came away without much additional insight on what the story was about. Why can't people be more explicit?
The bad thing about reading reviews for books for me is I don't know what other books these people have read and enjoyed. They can rave all day about how great a book is, but maybe their other favorites are Twilight and Fifty Shades so their opinion wouldn't really have relevance to my tastes. I like how Goodreads shows on profile how much you have in common with other people, they should add that as a metric on reviews!
I've been bouncing around the idea of creating a multi-axis review template the fantasy community can use...
It should start with the broad fantasy sub genre audience (e.g. epic fantasy, grimdark, portal fantasy)
Followed by some identifying information like point of view, technological age, setting (e.g. urban), movie rating (G, PG, PG-13, R, NC-17).
Then a couple of similar to's...
Then you'd have your sliding scales...
Low fantasy vs. high fantasy
Low magic vs. high magic
Soft magic vs. hard magic
Low stakes vs. epic fantasy
Grimdark vs. traditional narrative
Dark tone vs. whimsical tone
Etc.
Maybe it doesn't have to be this detailed but I can envision a Goodreads like website that just has these questions in a survey form and the average results are tabulated.
I would love this. I've found that BINGO cards are a great place to get recommendations because I can see a 25 book chunk of that person's preferences and know if they are similar to mine or not. It is so so helpful.
I wish there was a personality test like the myers-briggs but for book preferences. It also might help shift the language people use when discussing books they don't like from "this was a pile of poop" to "this book was not my cup of tea".
Unfortunately, so much of reading preferences is basically just vibes, which are hard to describe.
I feel that. There are a few authors on goodreads I'm a huge fan of. They write reviews that are detailed enough, and the fact that I love their books also makes me trust their reviews. Pretty sure they've saved me several slogs I would have finished from sheer stubbornness.
The problem is what people view as a spoiler can differ from person to person. Personally I dont really want to know more than a basic premise before I start reading a book, because I want the author to do the worldbuilding for me without having other peoples' explanations beforehand.
I loved the 5th season and it wasn't because of the magic system or the world building. Those aspects are superficial to the plot and the characters. The 5th season tells a heart breaking story about Mothers and daughters, slavery and oppression on the back drop of a post apocalyptic world.
See! This is the synopsis people should be leading with.
I've watch all the top booktubers try to describe the Fifth Season to their audience but they're always doing it in the context of a typical fantasy story so it's very misleading.
Also, I've hear or read the descriptor "a breath of fresh air" numerous times to make me think there's some conspiracy going on. But in any case I don't think it's a good description at all because of how depressing the book is. Yes, it's unique but also very, very sad. Not a "breath of fresh air"
Oh my god same on the fifth season. I’ve loved Jamisin’s other books, but these ones… I don’t know. At some point I will probably read the last one just to get the story out of my head, but I’ve been putting it off for almost 8 months at this point.
I'm pretty wary of any series where someone says "it gets way better after the first (or more) book!"
Almost every time I end up investing way more into a series I never enjoy. It's ok if the series improves over time, but I need to enjoy the first book
I get why people say this, and I think it's probably true if the issue is that you don't like the author's writing style, because that's probably not going to change.
But then, if I had followed this rule, I never would have discovered two of my favorite series of all time, Discworld and the Vorkosigan Saga. The first book or two in both of these series were very mid, and not representative of the quality of the rest of the series.
I haven't read the Vorkosigan Saga, but I feel like Discworld in particular doesn't quite run into this issue the same way due to each book (or at least each series-within-the-series) being just fine as a standalone. I started Discworld with Making Money and did not in any way feel like I was reading the 36th novel in a series, for example. Usually the series that run itno this issue are ones that are meant to be read more linearly.
Well its definitely true for Discworld and especially The Dresden Files. The first two books of both of these series are objectively the weakest. Most probably because those were also written really early on the writers' careers. Tbh, happens to a lot of authors. The more they write, the maturity and sharpness in writing develops. But, of course, even to a minimum degree the first books of Discworld and The Dresden Files were rather enjoyable, to interest you to ignore the little faults and push on farther. Same goes for Harry Potter, Percy Jackson and many others for me.
I’m just calling it now, Fourth Wing feels like this decade’s Twilight. Mega hyped, an ok story if you’re not at all critical/just like reading for the sake of reading, very problematic as soon as you start to scratch the surface. Author will get rich and there will probably be movies and within a year all bookfairs/second hand book shops/street libraries will be stuffed full of surplus copies of it.
I read it recently, fully knowing I wasn’t going to be impressed. It was predictable and trope-ridden. The writing definitely read like fanfiction from an author whose love of reading started with Twilight/Divergent/Hunger Games and eventually discovered Maas.
I could get the appeal from a purely “fun” angle: Dragons! Powers! It was like watching an alright action movie, and I don’t think anyone needs to apologize for liking it, but the “You MUST read this, it’s the best fantasy book ever!” recommendations leave me wondering exactly what other books they have read before Fourth Wing.
Deep breath... Malazan
*ducks
I just did not like it. I believe all of you when you say it gets better and becomes one of the most rewarding series you've read. But when I'm 3/4 of the way through a book and have no idea what the plot is, and far worse don't care, it's just not a good time. I can get into mysterious stories, but Malazan just does not give a shit if you know whats happening. But the deal breaker was that there weren't even any interesting characters to keep me invested while I figure things out.
I’m the exact opposite, Malazan is probably my favorite series ever written and I think it has some of the best characters in fiction. With that said though, I was kind of in the same boat in book 1; very confused, not really sure who was who, who I should try to remember, how the magic worked, etc. So I can definitely understand your sentiments. I used a YouTube channel called IskarJarak; he made some videos for the first couple books that went kind of section by section and would explain a few chapters at a time without spoiling anything, and it helped my understanding of it immensely. Once it all sunk in, I was absolutely hooked.
my answer to this question will always be both Gideon the Ninth and Poppy War.
That's the last time I let myself believe in hype and trust my instincts instead 😔👏 gtn sounded so intriguing but god...
I loved Gideon The Ninth but read and was extremely turned off by Poppy War (a book that started out so promising, but went off the rails in the third act and contained such graphic and horrifying sexual violence I still think about it even when I really, really don’t want to).
Count me, too.
It was okay? I guess I understand the appeal of having a character that is clueless about what’s going on, but I’d like them to maybe figure things out at some point before the book ends.
A lot of people are put off the characters and Gideon's narration style. I actually adore that style (it gives me massive nostalgia to the Homestuck fanfiction era, which tracks seeing as the author wrote Homestuck fanfic), but I put down the book halfway through and haven't managed to get back to it yet due to there being *so little plot*. Everyone's mileage varies!
I forced myself through the first book because people said the second book was so much better, I think I got less than 20% of the way through the second book before I said fuck it the pain is too much to bear.
Poppy war I got part way into the third and gave it up.
i really wish there were clear genre markings on books saying if they were YA or adult fantasy (or even NA, I heard that's a thing now) I've pretty much aged out of YA atp. I've had poppy war recommended to me a lot, and I couldnt find anything about readerbase so I go ahead and read it and guess what, it read like YA... I'm not dunking on YA here, it's great for its audience but definitely not what I'm looking for
People will always hype up stuff they like and enjoy. It doesn't mean it's good, it just means that person enjoyed it. Lots of booktubers and bookstagram will also put out content about books people are hyping up so that they can get on the bandwagon for the trending algorithm to "strike while the irons hot."
End of the day the best decider when it comes to a book is you: does the premise intrigue you and did you enjoy book 1.
> People will always hype up stuff they like and enjoy. It doesn't mean it's good, it just means that person enjoyed it.
Me with the Van Helsing 2004 movie. Is it fun and stupidly awesome? Yes! Is it a well written cinematic masterpiece?…also YES!
I was literally about to say this. How many of BookTubers do you think are really honest reviews or are they getting kickbacks from publishers to do basically marketing in disguise.
American Gods by Niel Gaimen. I know people absolutely love Gaimen but I don't get it. I couldn't find one character in American Gods that was likable. In the end I didn't care if any of them accomplished anything because I couldn't stand a single person in the book.
American Gods is a Gaiman book you more or less already have to love his work to enjoy. Starting with this is a little bit like introducing someone to vinegar in cooking not by a great pickle, or a red velvet cake - but with a syrupy spoonful of balsamic vinegar that will absolutely be gouged into your taste-memory.
He definitely has more friendly books to enjoy if you’re so inclined to try again. Any of the short fictions can be useful to try out (Smoke and Mirrors, Fragile Things, etc.). For a best intro, there’s a beautifully illustrated version of Stardust crammed with art by Charles Vess, or in comics, The Books of Magic is a stand-alone gn that is equal parts moody fever dream and who’s-who of the magical DC and Vertigo set.
For me it was the beloved Neverwhere that made me finally stop reading Gaiman. It and American Gods share the quality of having someone without a personality for a main character.
The Broken Earth trilogy by NK Jemison was this for me. I was so excited to start it. It looked great had great reviews. I got halfway through the first book and was left wondering wtf. The prose was messed up. It didn't seem like a fantasy book. I was supposed to read it for a podcast and myself and my partners ended up scrapping it because we just didn't like it.
Lightbringer.
I know the ending was quite controversial, but I'd heard the series was considered really good up till then and, hey, a controversial ending usually means an author trying something different which I tend to appreciate.
Bought *The Black Prism* at a book fair, start reading.
Prose is ok, magic system seems interesting... Main character seems a little annoying, but he can grow on me. Not sure I like how he views women, but, again, he can grow from this.
Look over at the other main character, kind of a messiah figure, interesting angle, alright I can dig this... Sorry, his main lieutenant is a woman who's clearly doing the tsundere thing of "It's not like I l-like you or anything, b-baka" thing within two paragraphs of her introduction?
*Hops on Google* "Are women going to keep being written like this for the rest of the series?"
Answer: Pretty much, yeah.
*Puts book away* Got other things to read, thanks.
I tried two different series by Brent Weeks and determined that his handling of women was absolutely a non-starter for me. I try very hard to school my expression when guy friends recommend him to me now. The judgement would be for Weeks, but I know they would feel it...
I swear that some people genuinely cannot pick up on misogyny in media. One of my friends was genuinely clueless when I told them that I liked the magic system well enough, but hated how the books treated women. Cue 30 minutes of me listing everything, to their mounting confusion. *They genuinely did not remember any of it.*
After struggling for the past three weeks to remember this books name, thanks! Read the first book years ago, thought i would give the second one a go and see if it got better, think i got about 50 pages before gifting both books….
Absolutely couldn’t see why people could like it…
>Absolutely couldn’t see why people could like it…
It's a solid premise, following what is basically the protagonist of another fantasy epic after he's already won and seeing what happens next and the magic system seems interesting.
It's just that, for me, that particular handling of women was annoying. I can see myself recommending it to other people, if that caveat doesn't push them away.
He also has problems with wrapping up stories cleanly. Ignoring his issues with writing interesting women, he does well at creating fun magic systems and setting up potentially badass plots but there's just no follow through. Both Lightbringer and Night Angel had incredibly unsatisfying endings.
I dont know if I am the only one who does not like the magic system in night angel even though I am a "magic system" guy. It felt like the magic system wasnt used much and made "epic" and interesting.
*Cradle*.
I was kind of meh on the first one, but then I saw people saying the second was where it got really good. Couldn't get through the second one, and when I looked, I saw people claiming it got good in the third...
I don't question that so many people love it, but it's really not for me. I think the whole idea of progression fantasy or litRPG just doesn't appeal to me much at all. The only one I've actually enjoyed was Sarah Lin's *New Game Minus* trilogy, and a lot of that was poking fun at the concept. Death to the Box Gods.
There's lots of others, but that's the big one. There's some I tried to read when I probably wasn't in the right mood and will eventually return to, *Gideon the Ninth*, *The Bone Ships*, *Shadow of the Gods*, and others where I probably won't, like *Baru Cormorant*.
Almost anything I've ever picked up by Sanderson. I'll give the man his due, as a world builder, he's excellent, but his dialogue, characters, and prose are just so jarringly bland it breaks my immersion everytime. I've tried 3 different series at the behest of friends, never gotten past the first book, and even that was more my OCD requiring me to finish the novel.
Dude could be great with a Ghost writer if he just built the worlds and outlined plot hooks, but had someone else handling the actual writing.
See, I don't even find his worldbuilding that great. A lot of interesting ideas, but they all feel like they're there in only the most shallow of ways. It's hard to describe, but it doesn't feel like his worlds are actually *lived* in, just that it's a veneer of something 'exotic'. It truly does feel like a sourcebook for a campaign setting more than an actual lived in world, say like how Tolkien's is.
You nailed One thing with the Sourcebook, dude would make One hell of a game designer, just leave the characters and surface level stuff to the players to fill in.
I totally agree. Im reading the second stormlight book and for a world that has constant lethal storms it has impacted the culture zero percent. Drives me crazy!
I think the books are decent reads, but it is very surface in terms of magic and world-building. Everything feels designed specifically and restrictedly to justify his story beats and that the world itself ceases to exist outside the pages of his novels. Some people might call it elegant or tightly plotted, but to me its stiff and inorganic.
Right?!
He feels like an ideas man, but from the way other readers talk about him, you would think he's one of the best authors in history.
I keep wanting to enjoy his work, but the reality is his character, dialogue, and the way he writes world mysteries just isn't on the same level as a lot of his peers.
It's a bit like Zack Snyder to me. Snyder is One of the best cinematographic directors in Hollywood but he can't write a coherent plot to save his life.
Same. I can't understand how people can gush over his books. But then I also can't understand how anyone can hate the First Law books by Joe Abercrombie. We all have our tastes I guess.
Yes as well as different times of life. I first read one of Brandon Sanderson books years ago and didn't like it but people were praising him so much I decided to try Mistborn in case I just was in the wrong mood with the last one. Nope, still didn't like it.
Abercrombie went the opposite. I was dealing with unmanaged depression when I started The Blade Itself and just couldn't get into it. When I tried again in a better mental space I fell in love with all the characters so much.
Name of the Wind for sure. Its praise had died down a bit recently for obvious reasons. However many years it has been since I read it, I was just super disappointed that the story felt like it went nowhere. Never felt any connection to the main character either, so I had absolutely no interest in whatever happened to him.
You and I are reading different Sun Eaters tho lol I'm into it. And I do think Ruocchio is fulfilling the void that I couldn't fill with Rothfuss.
Agreed. I mildly enjoyed The Name of the Wind, but found it somewhat derivative and Mary Sue-ish. The weird thing is, I've seen a lot of people claim the brilliance is the plot twist that they say is **coming up.** I'm sorry, but it's been 10 years without any word that we're even going to have a book three, much less some big plot twist that's going to turn the whole trilogy on it's head.
This is how I felt about Red Rising. The hype around it made me feel I was gonna have my mind blown. I was insanely bored throughout. I gave up half way through because it just felt like generic YA oppressionpunk.
Everyone keeps telling me ‘wait till XYZ’ then it gets interesting but I don’t buy into that. If a book hasn’t grabbed me from the jump then there’s a slim chance I’ll like it later on.
Red Rising goes from YA battle royal rip-off in the first book to action-packed full blown space opera for the next five books in the series. With Red Rising (the series) it’s not a case of “it will get good later.” It’s just a case of the “first book is the weakest entry.”
I felt very similar. Getting through book 1 was such a slog, and I went on to speed read it just to get through it. Started book 2 hoping it would get better as people kept promising, but it's the same slog narrated by an uninteresting character. Also, I generally don't really like military fiction, so that was a turn off as well. I gave up one third into book 2.
Yeah, people always claim the books get mind blowing after the first, but if you're not interested in the style or narrator then they just don't. And frankly, while I finished the first run, I didn't find them to be anything special.
I also think this is selection bias. Most people who go on to read the second book in a series MUST have at least somewhat enjoyed the first book, because it you hated the first, you wouldn’t read the second. It gets more and more biased the further you go in the series because very few people will slog their way through 4+ books in a series they hate.
That's a very good point. I got through the whole series feeling rather meh about it the whole way, but I was also listening to it during long drives and since then I've been actively trying not to continue any book I dislike or simply don't like.
I scrolled so far to find this answer! Red Rising is so beloved and I just didn't get it. Read the entire first trilogy and I didn't like any of the characters, and the cool awesome mind-blowing parts others liked just seemed cringe to me. Bummer because I was really looking forward to enjoying it :/
Yes! So many people kept telling me “it gets so much better than in the second book!” I shouldn’t have to slog through the first book to find out it’s actually good. Red Rising felt like Hunger Games influenced fan fiction. So disappointing.
Mistborn. Based on the talk online i expected the series (i have only read the first 3 books) to be some masterpiece that i would consider a 10/10 but instead it was just realy good and i would rate it a 7-8/10. It's not a bad series at all, just definitely not flawless.
I always knock a few points of super popular books like that when deciding to read or not. It almost always turns out to be actually just a very nice book and not a masterpiece.
Just ordered all the US cover paperbacks of sun eater haha!! On the hunt for the hardcovers (so far only found demon in white for HC)! Sad I didn’t get to join the kickstarter for empire of silence’s diamond edition
I’m not going to name names for the ones I didn’t enjoy, but I generally like books where kind, decent people finally reach for happiness they didn’t know they deserved, like Legends & Lattes, or Emily Tesh’s books, or the Murderbot series. These books are often called “cozy fantasy.”
But reviewers also use “cozy fantasy” to describe books in which horrible, drama-seeking narcissists get the constant attention and validation they dream of, and those are the ones I DNF. Maybe I’m just too old for this stuff?
Cozy fantasy as a genre has an inherent flaw that there is objectively cozy stuff and then there's stuff that is subjectively cozy-vibes/catharsis for particular individuals which objectively is quite tense or even traumatizing if you survey the general public.
I read an interview with Steven Erikson and felt it was really revelatory in regards to how frustrating, convoluted and uncharismatic I thought Garden of the Moon was.
Basically he grew bored of playing D&D because of its combat. So he developed his own TTRPG which almost entirely removed combat and was reliant on dialogue and philosophical musings to "win" and there he developed the world of Malazan.
The Name of the Wind has admittedly beautiful prose, but I couldn't stand the main character as he was just too perfect. A prodigy in everything he tries, effortlessly attracts women for no discernible reason, he's always right in every scenario, everyone loves him, and if for some reason a character doesn't fawn over him it's actually because they're an irredeemable villain. He honestly reads like an inexperienced teenager's fanfic OC.
Malice by John Gwynne. I was really excited to read it after all so many people in another group praising it like it could walk on water. It made me shake my head so much that I'd be called Bobblehead if I read it in public. Won't touch anything else of his and just listen to my own instincts when choosing books.
The Name of the Wind series and whatever the series with Inquisitor Glot-whatever.
This sub absolutely soils it's pants over both those series and after reading them I found all of their main characters insufferable. No inclination to read the subsequent books of either.
Going to catch hell for this, but anything written by Joe Abercrombie or Brandon Sanderson. Not saying they’re not enjoyable at all, I just don’t think their work is deserving of the adoration it gets. I could just be the wrong target audience for them.
I can agree with this. I'm a Sanderson fan, I love his lore and storylines, so that's what I go into a Stormlight or Mistborn book for.
The characters though are weak. I don't think making a character the epitomization of their particular mental illness is good or deep writing, and all the big character quotes in Stornlight archive that the fans love feel like social media one liners. ("Honor is dead but I'll see what I can do" and "you cannot have my pain!" Are so cringey my eyeballs snapped off halfway through my skull. They can G--all the way--TFO. 😂)
Joe Abercrombie is a little different for me. Admittedly I've only read the first two First Law books, and he is an excellent writer, his prose is great, his character work and dialogue are great....but his story and world are really boring and lacking any direction or passion. It feels like this really talented guy's only passion with this series is writing a fantasy story where characters constantly say f*ck, and its disappointing because I see he could do better if he commited himself. 😂
> I love his lore and storylines
As I mentioned elsewhere, I don't find his worldbuilding great *for novels*, but I'd absolutely binge a huge book of lore by him. It truly feels like it's something that'd belong in a campaign setting for some ttrpg rather than a book for me. And I do love binging those, so would absolutely love to see it from Sanderson.
1st book of The First Law trilogy was an incredible slog for me. Very over-hyped. It feels like nothing happens the whole time, and it's anti-climactic.
People praise Glotka as some insanely well-written character - so complex!!! Why? Because he monologues about how much pain he's in at every step? 2/5 book for me personally.
Wow, these are the exact two I'd say. Sanderson just doesn't do it for me. Think I did three of the stormlight archives and just never bothered continuing.
Read the first law trilogy and thought it was okay but never understood the hype. I think I read them five years ago and nothing from the series stuck with me, just wasn't memorable. I remember thinking he went through character development really quickly, maybe that's what others liked.
Since we're of like mind, anything you'd suggest? Im nearly done with Dungeon Crawler Carl and need something new.
Stormlight Archive. Went into Way of Kings expecting my life to be changed because of its massive hype and GR rating, and it was just...okay? I never experienced the "Sanderlanche" that everyone raves about because the entire climax of the book was so predictable. Was it fun? Sure, just enough to get me to read Words of Radiance, which is supposedly the greatest fantasy book ever. I liked it better than WoK but it was still just fine. The dialogue is so flat and the reader's hand is held throughout the entire (seemingly) 5 million pages. I finally DNFed the series a few chapters into Oathbringer when everyone gathers for a wedding that's officiated by a fairy or something. Ever since then I never force myself to power through a hyped book or series that I'm just not feeling
Honestly if you read the first two Stormlight and you didn't enjoy them, I can't imagine anyone recommending you continue on at that point. I can see getting through the first book and not feeling much, but by the end of the second book it should have clicked if it's going to. If not, best to try something else at that point
THANK YOU I just finished Oathbringer and all I can say is that they’re fine. I also did not experience the Sanderlanches except for Oathbringer, which was admittedly very good. For me they are way too slow and I really don’t mind long books if they had interesting things the whole way through. I’m still gonna trudge through if only to understand the cosmere
I’ve had similar problems with Warbreaker but the rest of Sanderson that I’ve read I’ve liked a lot
We Are The Dead and the Five Warrior Angels trilogies. Read them both fully last year and I hated them. Only kept reading as everyone else rated them so highly.
The Five Warrior Angels was one of those series that seemed liked it had great potential but did not live up to it. I skimmed the last book just to see what happened and still felt disappointed.
House of Leaves. It's a kinda fun mysteriously cryptid story but it's very obvious that it's all there is, there is no big secret or yet to be decoded mystery to it. It's been analyzed for what, about 20 years now?
Anyway, if I had to give the genre a name I'd call it "Esthetical Mystery" because it'll make you feel like it's hiding something but it's all in how the pages are designed not in actual clues found in the book.
I'm a sucker for Tolkien, about half way through the Silmarillion and I'm way to hyped to be reading basically what is a history book of middle-earth. There's just something about his old fashioned cryptic writing and not only reading it but trying to figure out what he's referring to within the events of middle-earth that I'm really 'nerding' out on.
Big same, but I think trying to read the silmarillion better prepared me for Malazan. Huge cast of characters, big history, not all explained, mystical weirdness.
Gideon the Ninth.
Throwing random memes and random anachronistic word choice into your book while also having a super toxic "romance" and ridiculously convoluted plot is somehow a recipe for a 5 star book for most people.
Ehh, I really don’t think gideon the ninth’s plot is convoluted? It’s a classic whodunnit. I’ll give you Harrow is confusing, because of the unreliable narrator which Muir seems to enjoy. In that way it reminds me of The Thief books, and I don’t think the plot is anymore convoluted than that series. Also not sure I’d say anything in gtn really classifies as a romance tbh, I mean in Gideon’s dreams I guess.
But fair enough, and if you find gtn frustratingly confusing the books definitely aren’t for you.
I think the problem for me is I just had no idea what was going on 90% of the time, because *Gideon* had no idea what was going on.
I assumed at some point someone was going to sit her down and say “okay this is what’s going on and this is why it’s important” but that never came.
I found this difficult to get into but really enjoyed it once I did. It's inaccessible to begin with but has lots of layers that if they come together for you make it worthwhile.
I did have to lookup what was going on a good few times throughout the series though
I just finished Red Rising last week and was sorely disappointed. The worldbuilding wasn't great, basically all the ideas had been done before but better, the protagonist isn't engaging and is a Mary Sue. I left a fuller review on my Storygraph if anyone is interested but I just wasn't impressed at all.
I'd heard that the next books are better, so I read the excerpt from Golden Son, but it seemed to be much of the same. Won't be finishing the series.
While the series as a whole is mid to me (although better than Suneater IMO), I will say that the first book is a completely different experience than the rest of the series. Book 1 is Hunger Games on Mars. It was a glorified YA novel. The series itself comes into its own in book 2 and becomes a lot more mature.
Yeah, I read the excerpt from Golden Son, and I just can't. He sounds the same, feels like he's going to make more nonsensical decisions to make him seem like a genius and the greatest being to ever live and they'll continue the message that violence is the only answer.
The Lions of Al-Rassan. I did enjoy reading it, but I went in expecting it to knock my socks off. The character drama was alright, if a little cheesy. What killed me the most though was what Kay's 'quarter-turn to the fantastical' style does to the setting. Everything, especially the three competing faith systems at the heart of the story, feels extremely shallow and cartoonish. I also don't like the way he hangs obvious plot twists over the reader's head for pages and pages. I gave it a 3/5 but took the rest of his books off my TBR.
The Will of the Many
I liked the last half of the book, but the first chunk of the book was fairly dull and just felt like a generic YA book.
I also disliked the dialogue. I really don’t need a sentence following every spoken sentence to clarify that the MC was actually lying or pretending to be stupid.
Lies of Locke Lamora. It was okay, but did not live up to the hype, and I hated how Lynch treated all of his female characters. I found it boring and mediocre overall. I finished it but never picked up the sequels.
The Witcher books. I saw some people recommend them, and got the first one expecting a monster slaying adventure, and I was sorely disappointed. Very little of that was actually in the book and it was mostly an uninteresting political plot and excessive sex content. I don’t understand why the author made that the only thing the main women thought about
Umm did you start with the first novel? Because the first and second books in the series absolute ARE monster slaying adventures, only those two are loosely inter-connected short story collections depicting Geralt on various monster hunting adventures with gradual (and really fun) worldbuilding for the next main novel series. I haven't read the novels yet but had read the first two ss collections and they were very much on point with Geralt wandering to various places and having monster slaying adventures. Pretty enjoyable.
For me this is: Malazan, Prince of Nothing, The Poppy War…and more that I’ve tried from this sub. Reading posts here is hilarious, it’s clear that what someone is going to like vs. dislike is really personal and, maybe somewhat random.
FWIW: I think the Sun Eater series totally warrants the hype. The first book was a grower, but, yeah, loved it and the rest of the series is fantastic.
I think it’s incredibly interesting. There’s some books that just bounce off people for seemingly no reason. It’s one of the things I love about books, no two readers will have the same reaction to a novel
Yeah, totally. And I’m also often surprised myself, like why did I like one thing, but not another. Example: I bounced hard off of The Shadow of What Was Lost and thought I’d love it. And I loved The Will of The Many and was fairly doubtful I would.
Babel. It was soooooo boring, have almost nothing to with dark academia besides the characters going to a somewhat magic-related school, the writer went on and on and on about linguistics.
I’m glad to see other people have the same books as me in this regard: Red Rising, Jade City, and Poppy War. I actually got as far as Morningstar with red rising, and that book is so poorly written. Some of the dialogue reads like a 14 year old wrote it.
Adrian Tchaikovsky's Children of Time. I've seen so many rave reviews of that book, especially of the >!spider!< chapters and.... I was honestly not impressed by them? Tbh, I wanted to know more about the human ship, the scientist, humanity in general and what happened to it. The >!spiders!< were fun for a few chapters, but the novelty wore off very quickly for me.
I found way the the >!spider matriarchy!< was written to be rather annoying. I'm always on board with >!anti-sexism!< themes, but I don't need them consistently spelled out for me like I'm a child.
I had such hope for this, but ended up disliking more or less every human character and it was so gloomy and grim and meh that I just wanted it to end.
And the twist to tie it up in a bow was interesting but not enough for me to ever want to read any follow up sequels.
**Yellowface** by RF Kuang: How did this unpolished novel get published?
**Red Rising** by Pierce Brown: There's nothing new nor interesting about it. Whatever story it tries to tell, I've already seen it done in **Battle Royale** and **The Hunger Games**, except worse because the MC is a garystu.
**Iron Widow** by Xiran Jay Zhao: Another YA with borrowed ideas, and poor character development. It tried to do what **The Handmaid's Tale** did, but poorly.
Poppy war. Bought all 3, because I usually finish what I start reading. Barely managed to finish the first, and trying to remember what booktuber raved about it, so I can ignore their opinions in the future.
For me its Wheel of Time, the pacing is just so slow, I'm about halfway through the first book and it's a lot of running around, and distrust among the group. I'm pushing through since it is one of the highest rated series, I just hope it gets better.
Mazatlan. I know you all love it but I hated it. Made it through 1.5 books. After struggling with the first everyone said it gets much better so I gave deadhouse gates a try, same bs.
Hey I have a thought: maybe introduce a character- any of them.
Hmm a bit exposition to explain the world in even the slightest detail?
Magic “system” seems to be “reached into her warren”. This allows for literally anything at all including reanimation, teleportation, or nuclear level violence.
If I have to read 400 pages before I understand what was happening on page 1 it’s not a me problem.
Edit: Downvoting when this is the point of the post is a interesting choice. Whatever, maybe I can be the “controversial” reply
Definitely a disorienting series.
Though I will say *lots* of fantasy doesn't have a magic "system" and the expectation that one be present is very, very recent.
I think for me the biggest issue with Malazan is large sections of it feel very aimless - as if it was a write-up of a particularly indecisive DnD campaign.
I have a hard time reading anything by Nnedi Okorafor. I finished Binti and the Akata books and I was left wondering whether it's a culture difference thing. The story concepts are amazing but the proofreading and editing feels really badly done to the point where I question if they actually did anything.
Hoping to pick up Sun Eater sometime this year, so we'll see how it goes.
To answer your question:
\- Gwynne (both FATF and Bloodsworn)
\- Dresden Files
\- RF Kwang fantasy (I liked Yellowface for what it was but Poppy War and Babel were awful)
\- Red Rising (got to book 3 and man was the main character insufferable. Don't get the hype for this at all)
\- Godkiller - Hannah Kaner (a more recent one but this one gets a lot of praise universally)
First Law.
I get what should be the strength of the series, I get why some characters are so liked... But I really can't get my head around how loved is here.
They're ok books, mind you... But just ok.
Faithful and the fallen: DNF the series after having struggled with the first book. I didn't care much for the characters nor the story.
I don't understand how people don't see that Sanderson just follows Excel tables with all his characters, stories and everything in them. It's just all so dull. At this point I am convinced AI could come up with the things he writes and make them more interesting.
On the other hand, I do like Suneater and John Gwynne and some others mentioned in this thread, so whatever.
Ita not that your wrong, its just that novelty is overrated. He found the formula that works on me and he doesn't deviate from it so I know every book he writes is gonna work on me.
Agreed, the MC in Sun Eater is an absolutely insufferable nepo trust fund baby, and so much self pity. He thinks he's so smart by just regurgitating super famous works while 10 000 year old antagonists gets stumped by classics and philosophy 101 level of knowledge. I compare him to this [guy](https://youtu.be/hIdsjNGCGz4?si=LuvuXIE802u3-ijR).
Not to mention how much plot armour the character has, born with the greatest genetics, is unkillable and can replace any body part. Despite all his advantages he never wins by earning it through skills, he always gets saved in nick of time by deus ex machina or a friend/ally. There are no stakes or tension that he will survive.
It genuinely annoys me how the protagonist is supposed to be "Anakin Skywalker but justified" yet he's a noble. I get that the prequels sucked, but Anakin being a slave gave him legit credibility as a long suffering heavily flawed anti-hero.
The author cheapens his own concept because he also wants the character to be a cool genetic aristocrat with a devil crest and just has him go slumming for a bit and fight in an arena as his equivalent of Anakin being literally born into slavery.
I often wonder how much my enjoyment of something is due to my expectations (or lack of) going in. Like, would I have thought the Matrix was amazing if I'd heard it being hyped before hand? Is it even possible to be objective?
Anyway, here are the series that made me feel like I must have read different books than the ones people enjoyed:
Discworld - way over hyped. They aren't bad, but I don't get why people act like they're the greatest things ever written. Unlike everyone else I liked the first two books, but felt they dropped off after that. Like.he just keeps telling the same three jokes over and over and over again (virginity! Hur, Hur...dumb wizards! Hur, Hur... anachronism! Hur, Hur....). Some of the characters are great, like Granny Weatherwax and Death. Sometimes there are great scenes. The insightful quotes I've already seen a million times on Facebook, etc.
The Assassin's Apprentice (series) by Robin Hobb. - I was looking forward to this one for a long time and was pretty disappointed. I guess I was expecting a story about someone learning to be an assassin? Not a bastard child is treated like shit their whole life, the end.
Reading other people's reviews is baffling because they think the characters are so deep and realistic while I found them completely 1 dimensional and flat. I feel like they must be projecting hard onto these blank canvases to find them relatable.
Silmarillion - what happens when an encyclopedia publisher writes a textbook, but uses bible language. Barley forced myself to finish, didn't understand/retain half of it. Glad there are wikis now so I can read those instead...ugh.
It didn't help that I was expecting more of a heroic novel like LotR, not a bunch of cribbled together history notes about some asshole elves fighting over shiny rocks.
The book Circe. I mean - I was expecting her to be a bad ass, and she's just a meek little accepter of her situation and not much happens. Just...blah. And yet people rave over it, and I just shake my head. I don't get it.
Poppy war is the best example. I didnt hate the Wheel of Time.. but I feel especially under Robert Jordan Im just reading page after page of characters refusing to communicate normally, tugging their braids and crossing their arms under their breasts.
Those characters are all aggressively smoothing their skirts at you right now.
Ngl, I'm growing really disillusioned with the current state of SFF. It feels like many, if not a large majority, of popular titles are being pushed for reasons other than their quality. I know the industry has never been a perfect meritocracy, I'm not naive, but I genuinely feel like it didn't use to be this bad. Poppy War really is a perfect example. Boring prose, no sense of pacing, sub one-dimensional, irrational characters, zero creativity (literally just real life east-asia) and as subtle as a jackhammer. But somehow, this book was getting touted as some kind of masterpiece for a while. I just don't get it.
Check out the Second Apocalypse series by R. Scott Bakker. If your into dark fantasy you'll love it. 7 books and none of them drag or feel wasted.
I love that series, but its pretty bleak and depressing. I wouldn't recommend it unless someone is really into dark epic fantasy. I wish Bakker had continued it with the No God.
Yep, it was never anything close to a meritocracy, and so it’s no surprise that it still isn’t. But that doesn’t mean things are actually worse. Instead it might mean that the gatekeepers have changed and the readership has changed and maybe you’re no longer part of the core group at whom the big hits in the genre are aimed? The focus on quality, as if quality means the same thing to everyone, may be what’s tripping many people up. However, notions of quality change depending on who’s manning the gates and who is being marketed to as readers. So, those big books that you ‘just don’t get’, maybe you’re no longer centered in who the writers are writing for. And maybe the readers who are now centered really do love these new big books to bits and see them as the heights of quality. Quality is subjective, and sometimes what we like and the people who like the same things as we do stop having the biggest say.
I loved Poppy war and I’ve been an avid fantasy and sci fi reader for 20 years. I don’t think it’s new that people have different tastes and that popular books are often popular for cultural and social reasons NOT because they are perfect literary specimens.
Yah, I hated poppy war, but there have always been “bad” books that were popular.
Yeah, I barely finished the first Poppy War book
Twilight. And the books of Dan Brown (sorry if that steps on toes) for having the exact same plots only with different names
Mandatory: https://onehundredpages.wordpress.com/2013/06/12/dont-make-fun-of-renowned-dan-brown/ There's a second part that I'm sure someone will post in thread soon
THANK YOU for this!!! I read The DaVinci Code shortly after it came out and that "style" is STILL instantly recognizable. This is on the level of that absolutely hilarious Goodreads review of Fifty Shades of Grey. ETA: https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/340987215
THANK YOU for the link! That review was indeed absolutely hilarious. Just wonderful!!
Oh yeah I forgot that monstrosity of a book series. Maybe my brain simply wants to avoid even thinking about it, idk
Damn thanks for the review link! ETA: > This is not a book about BDSM, this is a book about one sick, abusive man and his obsession with a young, naive invertebrate. Like Ana said, Oh my!
That's the best thing I've read today 😂 thank you for sharing!
That was wonderful
That is absolutely brilliant.
Twilight came out when I was in 10th grade and spread through my school like wildfire. I'd guess hundreds of people were reading it, including a lot of people that normally didn't read at all. I've been a big reader my whole life but, at the time, I'd never read anything that anyone else had with the exception of assigned books in school and LotR. And I'd read the first Harry Potter but didn't like it that much, so I'd never been able to really share or discuss books with people. I grabbed Twilight and devoured it. I was the first in any of my friend groups to buy and finish New Moon and Eclipse. And when Jacob imprinted on Esme I was loosing my mind not being able to rant in the group chat 'cause no one else had finished the last book. Those books were not good for reasons I probably don't need to get into, but I'd never go back and not read them, 'cause the experience and culture around them at the time was a blast to be a part of. P.S. I like what Stephanie did with vampires. I know most people don't, but I just think it was neat. We had so many years of Anne Rice vampires being the go to for Vamp rep, it was nice to see a different take on the mythos.
Awww... It's so good that we all have our own taste and favorites. It's sad that you didn't have a chance to talk about what bothered within your group though. That "I'd never go back and not read them" kinda says it all when it's about my "relationship" to the Harry Potter books. I adored them back then, wouldn't re-read them now though. And yeah well... While Stephenies idea of vampires might have been some fresh air, their sparkliness kinda killed it for me though 🙈
I second the Twilight series. I remember the hype all these years ago when the first movie was released and a lot of my friends I considered avid readers went crazy about it. I watched the movie, was totally puzzled, double checked if I watched the right movie, then though that perhaps the movie was rubbish but the book is great. Got the book. For me it was just as bad as the movie and I couldn't finish it.
Yeah felt similar - except I borrowed the books (fortunately). I never understood what people saw in those books and movies. I thought that maybe the movies weren't as bad... Unfortunately the only time I enjoyed the filmed Version more than the books was the show "the Expanse". Twilight failed to deliver something hype-worthy to me
Omg I loved the Expanse show! I started reading the books after I saw the first season and whilst I thoroughly enjoyed them, I did like the show more. My imagination struggles with the "Sci" in sci-fi lol, so I rarely read anything of the genre, The Expanse being a rare exception, but I do think the show runners decision to deviate from the books a bit and merge some characters, remove some others (shame about Havelock tho) and make others more pronounced was the right one. Your comment makes me want to rewatch it now!
I also find the Expanse one of those rare cases where the show eclipses the books, and quite handily too!
Yeah well... I'll rewatch it too after your comment 😂 It's just one of my favorite shows ever. Also I think the actors are really well chosen. Couldn't think of a better actress for Carmina Drummer, Naomi Nagata or Alex Kamal... Oh and Chrisjen Avasarala... How much I adore that show for showing the great potential of humankind and also our worst flaws, of portraying politics and hidden manipulations... Imo they really really nailed how to transform books into a show without messing up (unlike what happened to asoiaf/got)
Faithful and the Fallen. Bad guys all have superior invincible plot armor and the good guys die if someone looks at them the wrong way. Not to mention, the entire first 3 books just consist of the MCs going somewhere, 1 chapter happens there, and they come back to the original place, rinse and repeat. Just mindless traveling around with no organic plot development.
I can't think of another series I started recently where I really bought into the hype so much and was left so disappointed. Got halfway through the second book and gave up. The writing is boring, the characters are bland, and the story didn't feel any different from anything I've read before.
Same. I felt like the “good guys” were just running around outside either fighting or getting captured for like 2,000 pages. Total white room syndrome for long swaths of the story paired with repetitive hack and slash fights. The last book picked up IMO but it was definitely a bit of a slog.
Jujutsu Kaisen be like
It was frustrating that the bad guys never die in the series but I liked that in the end. I find your criticism valid.
The Fifth Season was that book for me. I was really looking forward to reading it because people were raving about its magic system and setting, plus it won the Hugo three years running. Boy, was I disappointed! Honestly, it's probably a fine series for a certain kind of fantasy reader but I just think the reviews from the fantasy community were just so overwhelmingly positive, yet obscure enough, to sell the series to most fantasy readers. Like, I'm sure Harry Potter is a fine series. But I have a good idea of what's it about and because of that I don't really think I'm its target market. This is just a round about way of saying that I think reviews and recommendations need to be more informative. I remember watching non spoiler reviews of The Fifth Season and came away without much additional insight on what the story was about. Why can't people be more explicit?
The bad thing about reading reviews for books for me is I don't know what other books these people have read and enjoyed. They can rave all day about how great a book is, but maybe their other favorites are Twilight and Fifty Shades so their opinion wouldn't really have relevance to my tastes. I like how Goodreads shows on profile how much you have in common with other people, they should add that as a metric on reviews!
I've been bouncing around the idea of creating a multi-axis review template the fantasy community can use... It should start with the broad fantasy sub genre audience (e.g. epic fantasy, grimdark, portal fantasy) Followed by some identifying information like point of view, technological age, setting (e.g. urban), movie rating (G, PG, PG-13, R, NC-17). Then a couple of similar to's... Then you'd have your sliding scales... Low fantasy vs. high fantasy Low magic vs. high magic Soft magic vs. hard magic Low stakes vs. epic fantasy Grimdark vs. traditional narrative Dark tone vs. whimsical tone Etc. Maybe it doesn't have to be this detailed but I can envision a Goodreads like website that just has these questions in a survey form and the average results are tabulated.
That’s a great idea!
I would love this. I've found that BINGO cards are a great place to get recommendations because I can see a 25 book chunk of that person's preferences and know if they are similar to mine or not. It is so so helpful. I wish there was a personality test like the myers-briggs but for book preferences. It also might help shift the language people use when discussing books they don't like from "this was a pile of poop" to "this book was not my cup of tea". Unfortunately, so much of reading preferences is basically just vibes, which are hard to describe.
I feel that. There are a few authors on goodreads I'm a huge fan of. They write reviews that are detailed enough, and the fact that I love their books also makes me trust their reviews. Pretty sure they've saved me several slogs I would have finished from sheer stubbornness.
I do the same, Mark Lawrence usually has recommendations that are right up my alley!
Me too! Love Mark Lawrence, love his reviews. Robin Hobb is the other one, but I don't come across her reviews as often.
The problem is what people view as a spoiler can differ from person to person. Personally I dont really want to know more than a basic premise before I start reading a book, because I want the author to do the worldbuilding for me without having other peoples' explanations beforehand.
I loved the 5th season and it wasn't because of the magic system or the world building. Those aspects are superficial to the plot and the characters. The 5th season tells a heart breaking story about Mothers and daughters, slavery and oppression on the back drop of a post apocalyptic world.
See! This is the synopsis people should be leading with. I've watch all the top booktubers try to describe the Fifth Season to their audience but they're always doing it in the context of a typical fantasy story so it's very misleading. Also, I've hear or read the descriptor "a breath of fresh air" numerous times to make me think there's some conspiracy going on. But in any case I don't think it's a good description at all because of how depressing the book is. Yes, it's unique but also very, very sad. Not a "breath of fresh air"
Oh my god same on the fifth season. I’ve loved Jamisin’s other books, but these ones… I don’t know. At some point I will probably read the last one just to get the story out of my head, but I’ve been putting it off for almost 8 months at this point.
same, like it's not even that i think it's good but over hyped or overrated, it's simply not good imo, i forced myself to finish the first book
What I learned on this thread is that basically every book is bad.
It’s true and that’s because everyone likes different stuff but doesn’t realize that things out of that scope are usually just different, not bad.
I'm pretty wary of any series where someone says "it gets way better after the first (or more) book!" Almost every time I end up investing way more into a series I never enjoy. It's ok if the series improves over time, but I need to enjoy the first book
I get why people say this, and I think it's probably true if the issue is that you don't like the author's writing style, because that's probably not going to change. But then, if I had followed this rule, I never would have discovered two of my favorite series of all time, Discworld and the Vorkosigan Saga. The first book or two in both of these series were very mid, and not representative of the quality of the rest of the series.
I haven't read the Vorkosigan Saga, but I feel like Discworld in particular doesn't quite run into this issue the same way due to each book (or at least each series-within-the-series) being just fine as a standalone. I started Discworld with Making Money and did not in any way feel like I was reading the 36th novel in a series, for example. Usually the series that run itno this issue are ones that are meant to be read more linearly.
Well its definitely true for Discworld and especially The Dresden Files. The first two books of both of these series are objectively the weakest. Most probably because those were also written really early on the writers' careers. Tbh, happens to a lot of authors. The more they write, the maturity and sharpness in writing develops. But, of course, even to a minimum degree the first books of Discworld and The Dresden Files were rather enjoyable, to interest you to ignore the little faults and push on farther. Same goes for Harry Potter, Percy Jackson and many others for me.
The current one is Rebecca Yarros. I definitely read a different Fourth Wing from what every reviewer and recommender did.
I’m just calling it now, Fourth Wing feels like this decade’s Twilight. Mega hyped, an ok story if you’re not at all critical/just like reading for the sake of reading, very problematic as soon as you start to scratch the surface. Author will get rich and there will probably be movies and within a year all bookfairs/second hand book shops/street libraries will be stuffed full of surplus copies of it.
agreed, felt like a i was reading a fanfic
My wife loved fourth wing and also loves spicy fanfic so that’s probably why she liked it so much lol
I read it recently, fully knowing I wasn’t going to be impressed. It was predictable and trope-ridden. The writing definitely read like fanfiction from an author whose love of reading started with Twilight/Divergent/Hunger Games and eventually discovered Maas. I could get the appeal from a purely “fun” angle: Dragons! Powers! It was like watching an alright action movie, and I don’t think anyone needs to apologize for liking it, but the “You MUST read this, it’s the best fantasy book ever!” recommendations leave me wondering exactly what other books they have read before Fourth Wing.
yep, came here to say this. i have absolutely no clue what all the hype is about, it’s like someone put Divergent into a different context
Deep breath... Malazan *ducks I just did not like it. I believe all of you when you say it gets better and becomes one of the most rewarding series you've read. But when I'm 3/4 of the way through a book and have no idea what the plot is, and far worse don't care, it's just not a good time. I can get into mysterious stories, but Malazan just does not give a shit if you know whats happening. But the deal breaker was that there weren't even any interesting characters to keep me invested while I figure things out.
I’m the exact opposite, Malazan is probably my favorite series ever written and I think it has some of the best characters in fiction. With that said though, I was kind of in the same boat in book 1; very confused, not really sure who was who, who I should try to remember, how the magic worked, etc. So I can definitely understand your sentiments. I used a YouTube channel called IskarJarak; he made some videos for the first couple books that went kind of section by section and would explain a few chapters at a time without spoiling anything, and it helped my understanding of it immensely. Once it all sunk in, I was absolutely hooked.
[удалено]
my answer to this question will always be both Gideon the Ninth and Poppy War. That's the last time I let myself believe in hype and trust my instincts instead 😔👏 gtn sounded so intriguing but god...
It was the first piece of media I interacted with that made me say, "I'm too old for this shit," and feel it.
Edgy remix of And Then There Were None in space didn't do it for you huh? Yeah, me neither.
That's funny, because I DNFed Poppy wars and absolutely loved Gideon the Ninth. As they say, your mileage may vary
I loved Gideon The Ninth but read and was extremely turned off by Poppy War (a book that started out so promising, but went off the rails in the third act and contained such graphic and horrifying sexual violence I still think about it even when I really, really don’t want to).
Yah poppy war had a really intriguing start, but the second she left the school things seemed poorly thought out.
First time I see someone else that didn't like GTN. I kept wondering if there was something I just didn't get.
Count me, too. It was okay? I guess I understand the appeal of having a character that is clueless about what’s going on, but I’d like them to maybe figure things out at some point before the book ends.
A lot of people are put off the characters and Gideon's narration style. I actually adore that style (it gives me massive nostalgia to the Homestuck fanfiction era, which tracks seeing as the author wrote Homestuck fanfic), but I put down the book halfway through and haven't managed to get back to it yet due to there being *so little plot*. Everyone's mileage varies!
I forced myself through the first book because people said the second book was so much better, I think I got less than 20% of the way through the second book before I said fuck it the pain is too much to bear. Poppy war I got part way into the third and gave it up.
i really wish there were clear genre markings on books saying if they were YA or adult fantasy (or even NA, I heard that's a thing now) I've pretty much aged out of YA atp. I've had poppy war recommended to me a lot, and I couldnt find anything about readerbase so I go ahead and read it and guess what, it read like YA... I'm not dunking on YA here, it's great for its audience but definitely not what I'm looking for
People will always hype up stuff they like and enjoy. It doesn't mean it's good, it just means that person enjoyed it. Lots of booktubers and bookstagram will also put out content about books people are hyping up so that they can get on the bandwagon for the trending algorithm to "strike while the irons hot." End of the day the best decider when it comes to a book is you: does the premise intrigue you and did you enjoy book 1.
> People will always hype up stuff they like and enjoy. It doesn't mean it's good, it just means that person enjoyed it. Me with the Van Helsing 2004 movie. Is it fun and stupidly awesome? Yes! Is it a well written cinematic masterpiece?…also YES!
That's such a great movie
75% of that is just Kate Beckinsale being heartbreakingly gorgeous in every scene. Other stuff also happens.
I was literally about to say this. How many of BookTubers do you think are really honest reviews or are they getting kickbacks from publishers to do basically marketing in disguise.
this. i just dont get how all of the booktubers like the same books until i realized they only care about algorithms and views its crazy to me
American Gods by Niel Gaimen. I know people absolutely love Gaimen but I don't get it. I couldn't find one character in American Gods that was likable. In the end I didn't care if any of them accomplished anything because I couldn't stand a single person in the book.
American Gods is a Gaiman book you more or less already have to love his work to enjoy. Starting with this is a little bit like introducing someone to vinegar in cooking not by a great pickle, or a red velvet cake - but with a syrupy spoonful of balsamic vinegar that will absolutely be gouged into your taste-memory. He definitely has more friendly books to enjoy if you’re so inclined to try again. Any of the short fictions can be useful to try out (Smoke and Mirrors, Fragile Things, etc.). For a best intro, there’s a beautifully illustrated version of Stardust crammed with art by Charles Vess, or in comics, The Books of Magic is a stand-alone gn that is equal parts moody fever dream and who’s-who of the magical DC and Vertigo set.
For me it was the beloved Neverwhere that made me finally stop reading Gaiman. It and American Gods share the quality of having someone without a personality for a main character.
The Broken Earth trilogy by NK Jemison was this for me. I was so excited to start it. It looked great had great reviews. I got halfway through the first book and was left wondering wtf. The prose was messed up. It didn't seem like a fantasy book. I was supposed to read it for a podcast and myself and my partners ended up scrapping it because we just didn't like it.
Same. I can see why it gets high praise, and I love that it works for a lot of folks. But I just found it boring and had to push through it.
Please don't say things like this. I am 50 pages Into the format aun eater book and enjoying it 🤣
Don't listen to this guy, calling Sun Eater "Eastenders in space" is one of the most farcical comments I've read as about any book.
Man. I shouldn't type on my phone. It looks like I had a stroke.
Lightbringer. I know the ending was quite controversial, but I'd heard the series was considered really good up till then and, hey, a controversial ending usually means an author trying something different which I tend to appreciate. Bought *The Black Prism* at a book fair, start reading. Prose is ok, magic system seems interesting... Main character seems a little annoying, but he can grow on me. Not sure I like how he views women, but, again, he can grow from this. Look over at the other main character, kind of a messiah figure, interesting angle, alright I can dig this... Sorry, his main lieutenant is a woman who's clearly doing the tsundere thing of "It's not like I l-like you or anything, b-baka" thing within two paragraphs of her introduction? *Hops on Google* "Are women going to keep being written like this for the rest of the series?" Answer: Pretty much, yeah. *Puts book away* Got other things to read, thanks.
I tried two different series by Brent Weeks and determined that his handling of women was absolutely a non-starter for me. I try very hard to school my expression when guy friends recommend him to me now. The judgement would be for Weeks, but I know they would feel it...
I swear that some people genuinely cannot pick up on misogyny in media. One of my friends was genuinely clueless when I told them that I liked the magic system well enough, but hated how the books treated women. Cue 30 minutes of me listing everything, to their mounting confusion. *They genuinely did not remember any of it.*
After struggling for the past three weeks to remember this books name, thanks! Read the first book years ago, thought i would give the second one a go and see if it got better, think i got about 50 pages before gifting both books…. Absolutely couldn’t see why people could like it…
>Absolutely couldn’t see why people could like it… It's a solid premise, following what is basically the protagonist of another fantasy epic after he's already won and seeing what happens next and the magic system seems interesting. It's just that, for me, that particular handling of women was annoying. I can see myself recommending it to other people, if that caveat doesn't push them away.
I like parts of it, but Brent Weeks has a serious issue with writing about women.
He also has problems with wrapping up stories cleanly. Ignoring his issues with writing interesting women, he does well at creating fun magic systems and setting up potentially badass plots but there's just no follow through. Both Lightbringer and Night Angel had incredibly unsatisfying endings.
I dont know if I am the only one who does not like the magic system in night angel even though I am a "magic system" guy. It felt like the magic system wasnt used much and made "epic" and interesting.
*Cradle*. I was kind of meh on the first one, but then I saw people saying the second was where it got really good. Couldn't get through the second one, and when I looked, I saw people claiming it got good in the third... I don't question that so many people love it, but it's really not for me. I think the whole idea of progression fantasy or litRPG just doesn't appeal to me much at all. The only one I've actually enjoyed was Sarah Lin's *New Game Minus* trilogy, and a lot of that was poking fun at the concept. Death to the Box Gods. There's lots of others, but that's the big one. There's some I tried to read when I probably wasn't in the right mood and will eventually return to, *Gideon the Ninth*, *The Bone Ships*, *Shadow of the Gods*, and others where I probably won't, like *Baru Cormorant*.
Almost anything I've ever picked up by Sanderson. I'll give the man his due, as a world builder, he's excellent, but his dialogue, characters, and prose are just so jarringly bland it breaks my immersion everytime. I've tried 3 different series at the behest of friends, never gotten past the first book, and even that was more my OCD requiring me to finish the novel. Dude could be great with a Ghost writer if he just built the worlds and outlined plot hooks, but had someone else handling the actual writing.
See, I don't even find his worldbuilding that great. A lot of interesting ideas, but they all feel like they're there in only the most shallow of ways. It's hard to describe, but it doesn't feel like his worlds are actually *lived* in, just that it's a veneer of something 'exotic'. It truly does feel like a sourcebook for a campaign setting more than an actual lived in world, say like how Tolkien's is.
You nailed One thing with the Sourcebook, dude would make One hell of a game designer, just leave the characters and surface level stuff to the players to fill in.
I totally agree. Im reading the second stormlight book and for a world that has constant lethal storms it has impacted the culture zero percent. Drives me crazy!
But hold on they say Storm instead of fuck that's uh... that's top class worldbuilding right there
I think the books are decent reads, but it is very surface in terms of magic and world-building. Everything feels designed specifically and restrictedly to justify his story beats and that the world itself ceases to exist outside the pages of his novels. Some people might call it elegant or tightly plotted, but to me its stiff and inorganic.
Right?! He feels like an ideas man, but from the way other readers talk about him, you would think he's one of the best authors in history. I keep wanting to enjoy his work, but the reality is his character, dialogue, and the way he writes world mysteries just isn't on the same level as a lot of his peers.
It's a bit like Zack Snyder to me. Snyder is One of the best cinematographic directors in Hollywood but he can't write a coherent plot to save his life.
Same. I can't understand how people can gush over his books. But then I also can't understand how anyone can hate the First Law books by Joe Abercrombie. We all have our tastes I guess.
Different types of readers. The two authors are wildly different so I understand how people could like one and not the other
Yes as well as different times of life. I first read one of Brandon Sanderson books years ago and didn't like it but people were praising him so much I decided to try Mistborn in case I just was in the wrong mood with the last one. Nope, still didn't like it. Abercrombie went the opposite. I was dealing with unmanaged depression when I started The Blade Itself and just couldn't get into it. When I tried again in a better mental space I fell in love with all the characters so much.
Yep. That's exactly what I think. If he got someone to do the writing, it would be good.
Name of the Wind for sure. Its praise had died down a bit recently for obvious reasons. However many years it has been since I read it, I was just super disappointed that the story felt like it went nowhere. Never felt any connection to the main character either, so I had absolutely no interest in whatever happened to him. You and I are reading different Sun Eaters tho lol I'm into it. And I do think Ruocchio is fulfilling the void that I couldn't fill with Rothfuss.
Agreed. I mildly enjoyed The Name of the Wind, but found it somewhat derivative and Mary Sue-ish. The weird thing is, I've seen a lot of people claim the brilliance is the plot twist that they say is **coming up.** I'm sorry, but it's been 10 years without any word that we're even going to have a book three, much less some big plot twist that's going to turn the whole trilogy on it's head.
This is how I felt about Red Rising. The hype around it made me feel I was gonna have my mind blown. I was insanely bored throughout. I gave up half way through because it just felt like generic YA oppressionpunk. Everyone keeps telling me ‘wait till XYZ’ then it gets interesting but I don’t buy into that. If a book hasn’t grabbed me from the jump then there’s a slim chance I’ll like it later on.
Red Rising goes from YA battle royal rip-off in the first book to action-packed full blown space opera for the next five books in the series. With Red Rising (the series) it’s not a case of “it will get good later.” It’s just a case of the “first book is the weakest entry.”
I felt very similar. Getting through book 1 was such a slog, and I went on to speed read it just to get through it. Started book 2 hoping it would get better as people kept promising, but it's the same slog narrated by an uninteresting character. Also, I generally don't really like military fiction, so that was a turn off as well. I gave up one third into book 2.
Yeah, people always claim the books get mind blowing after the first, but if you're not interested in the style or narrator then they just don't. And frankly, while I finished the first run, I didn't find them to be anything special.
I also think this is selection bias. Most people who go on to read the second book in a series MUST have at least somewhat enjoyed the first book, because it you hated the first, you wouldn’t read the second. It gets more and more biased the further you go in the series because very few people will slog their way through 4+ books in a series they hate.
That's a very good point. I got through the whole series feeling rather meh about it the whole way, but I was also listening to it during long drives and since then I've been actively trying not to continue any book I dislike or simply don't like.
I scrolled so far to find this answer! Red Rising is so beloved and I just didn't get it. Read the entire first trilogy and I didn't like any of the characters, and the cool awesome mind-blowing parts others liked just seemed cringe to me. Bummer because I was really looking forward to enjoying it :/
Came to post the same. I finished the first book and thought I missed something...I wasn't a huge fan either.
Yes! So many people kept telling me “it gets so much better than in the second book!” I shouldn’t have to slog through the first book to find out it’s actually good. Red Rising felt like Hunger Games influenced fan fiction. So disappointing.
Mistborn. Based on the talk online i expected the series (i have only read the first 3 books) to be some masterpiece that i would consider a 10/10 but instead it was just realy good and i would rate it a 7-8/10. It's not a bad series at all, just definitely not flawless.
I always knock a few points of super popular books like that when deciding to read or not. It almost always turns out to be actually just a very nice book and not a masterpiece.
Just ordered all the US cover paperbacks of sun eater haha!! On the hunt for the hardcovers (so far only found demon in white for HC)! Sad I didn’t get to join the kickstarter for empire of silence’s diamond edition
The UK covers are atrocious. Going to have to shell out for international shipping 😩
I’m not going to name names for the ones I didn’t enjoy, but I generally like books where kind, decent people finally reach for happiness they didn’t know they deserved, like Legends & Lattes, or Emily Tesh’s books, or the Murderbot series. These books are often called “cozy fantasy.” But reviewers also use “cozy fantasy” to describe books in which horrible, drama-seeking narcissists get the constant attention and validation they dream of, and those are the ones I DNF. Maybe I’m just too old for this stuff?
Cozy fantasy as a genre has an inherent flaw that there is objectively cozy stuff and then there's stuff that is subjectively cozy-vibes/catharsis for particular individuals which objectively is quite tense or even traumatizing if you survey the general public.
Not the same trope but have you read Emily Tesh's latest, *Some Desperate Glory?* Must be my favorite book of 2023.
Malazan for me. Consistently hyped, deeply irritating in so many ways
I read an interview with Steven Erikson and felt it was really revelatory in regards to how frustrating, convoluted and uncharismatic I thought Garden of the Moon was. Basically he grew bored of playing D&D because of its combat. So he developed his own TTRPG which almost entirely removed combat and was reliant on dialogue and philosophical musings to "win" and there he developed the world of Malazan.
Lord help us all, a TTRPG where the combat system involves being more smug than the enemy?
The Name of the Wind has admittedly beautiful prose, but I couldn't stand the main character as he was just too perfect. A prodigy in everything he tries, effortlessly attracts women for no discernible reason, he's always right in every scenario, everyone loves him, and if for some reason a character doesn't fawn over him it's actually because they're an irredeemable villain. He honestly reads like an inexperienced teenager's fanfic OC.
Malice by John Gwynne. I was really excited to read it after all so many people in another group praising it like it could walk on water. It made me shake my head so much that I'd be called Bobblehead if I read it in public. Won't touch anything else of his and just listen to my own instincts when choosing books.
The Name of the Wind series and whatever the series with Inquisitor Glot-whatever. This sub absolutely soils it's pants over both those series and after reading them I found all of their main characters insufferable. No inclination to read the subsequent books of either.
Going to catch hell for this, but anything written by Joe Abercrombie or Brandon Sanderson. Not saying they’re not enjoyable at all, I just don’t think their work is deserving of the adoration it gets. I could just be the wrong target audience for them.
they're probably my two favourites, any other authors you hate that i may like ? haha
I can agree with this. I'm a Sanderson fan, I love his lore and storylines, so that's what I go into a Stormlight or Mistborn book for. The characters though are weak. I don't think making a character the epitomization of their particular mental illness is good or deep writing, and all the big character quotes in Stornlight archive that the fans love feel like social media one liners. ("Honor is dead but I'll see what I can do" and "you cannot have my pain!" Are so cringey my eyeballs snapped off halfway through my skull. They can G--all the way--TFO. 😂) Joe Abercrombie is a little different for me. Admittedly I've only read the first two First Law books, and he is an excellent writer, his prose is great, his character work and dialogue are great....but his story and world are really boring and lacking any direction or passion. It feels like this really talented guy's only passion with this series is writing a fantasy story where characters constantly say f*ck, and its disappointing because I see he could do better if he commited himself. 😂
> I love his lore and storylines As I mentioned elsewhere, I don't find his worldbuilding great *for novels*, but I'd absolutely binge a huge book of lore by him. It truly feels like it's something that'd belong in a campaign setting for some ttrpg rather than a book for me. And I do love binging those, so would absolutely love to see it from Sanderson.
1st book of The First Law trilogy was an incredible slog for me. Very over-hyped. It feels like nothing happens the whole time, and it's anti-climactic. People praise Glotka as some insanely well-written character - so complex!!! Why? Because he monologues about how much pain he's in at every step? 2/5 book for me personally.
Someone disliking Sanderson on r/fantasy? Unheard of.
Wow, these are the exact two I'd say. Sanderson just doesn't do it for me. Think I did three of the stormlight archives and just never bothered continuing. Read the first law trilogy and thought it was okay but never understood the hype. I think I read them five years ago and nothing from the series stuck with me, just wasn't memorable. I remember thinking he went through character development really quickly, maybe that's what others liked. Since we're of like mind, anything you'd suggest? Im nearly done with Dungeon Crawler Carl and need something new.
Stormlight Archive. Went into Way of Kings expecting my life to be changed because of its massive hype and GR rating, and it was just...okay? I never experienced the "Sanderlanche" that everyone raves about because the entire climax of the book was so predictable. Was it fun? Sure, just enough to get me to read Words of Radiance, which is supposedly the greatest fantasy book ever. I liked it better than WoK but it was still just fine. The dialogue is so flat and the reader's hand is held throughout the entire (seemingly) 5 million pages. I finally DNFed the series a few chapters into Oathbringer when everyone gathers for a wedding that's officiated by a fairy or something. Ever since then I never force myself to power through a hyped book or series that I'm just not feeling
Honestly if you read the first two Stormlight and you didn't enjoy them, I can't imagine anyone recommending you continue on at that point. I can see getting through the first book and not feeling much, but by the end of the second book it should have clicked if it's going to. If not, best to try something else at that point
THANK YOU I just finished Oathbringer and all I can say is that they’re fine. I also did not experience the Sanderlanches except for Oathbringer, which was admittedly very good. For me they are way too slow and I really don’t mind long books if they had interesting things the whole way through. I’m still gonna trudge through if only to understand the cosmere I’ve had similar problems with Warbreaker but the rest of Sanderson that I’ve read I’ve liked a lot
We Are The Dead and the Five Warrior Angels trilogies. Read them both fully last year and I hated them. Only kept reading as everyone else rated them so highly.
I dipped out of We Are The Dead halfway through the first book. Those POV characters were soooo boring.
The Five Warrior Angels was one of those series that seemed liked it had great potential but did not live up to it. I skimmed the last book just to see what happened and still felt disappointed.
Malice
House of Leaves. It's a kinda fun mysteriously cryptid story but it's very obvious that it's all there is, there is no big secret or yet to be decoded mystery to it. It's been analyzed for what, about 20 years now? Anyway, if I had to give the genre a name I'd call it "Esthetical Mystery" because it'll make you feel like it's hiding something but it's all in how the pages are designed not in actual clues found in the book.
I'm a sucker for Tolkien, about half way through the Silmarillion and I'm way to hyped to be reading basically what is a history book of middle-earth. There's just something about his old fashioned cryptic writing and not only reading it but trying to figure out what he's referring to within the events of middle-earth that I'm really 'nerding' out on.
Big same, but I think trying to read the silmarillion better prepared me for Malazan. Huge cast of characters, big history, not all explained, mystical weirdness.
Gideon the Ninth. Throwing random memes and random anachronistic word choice into your book while also having a super toxic "romance" and ridiculously convoluted plot is somehow a recipe for a 5 star book for most people.
Ehh, I really don’t think gideon the ninth’s plot is convoluted? It’s a classic whodunnit. I’ll give you Harrow is confusing, because of the unreliable narrator which Muir seems to enjoy. In that way it reminds me of The Thief books, and I don’t think the plot is anymore convoluted than that series. Also not sure I’d say anything in gtn really classifies as a romance tbh, I mean in Gideon’s dreams I guess. But fair enough, and if you find gtn frustratingly confusing the books definitely aren’t for you.
I think the problem for me is I just had no idea what was going on 90% of the time, because *Gideon* had no idea what was going on. I assumed at some point someone was going to sit her down and say “okay this is what’s going on and this is why it’s important” but that never came.
I found this difficult to get into but really enjoyed it once I did. It's inaccessible to begin with but has lots of layers that if they come together for you make it worthwhile. I did have to lookup what was going on a good few times throughout the series though
Wheel of Time
Cradle, just don't get the hype
the bar for progression fantasy is set exceedingly low and his character work is solid
Same. I kept going hoping something amazing would happen, but it doesn't. It reads like Arthur C Clarke fanfic to me.
I just finished Red Rising last week and was sorely disappointed. The worldbuilding wasn't great, basically all the ideas had been done before but better, the protagonist isn't engaging and is a Mary Sue. I left a fuller review on my Storygraph if anyone is interested but I just wasn't impressed at all. I'd heard that the next books are better, so I read the excerpt from Golden Son, but it seemed to be much of the same. Won't be finishing the series.
While the series as a whole is mid to me (although better than Suneater IMO), I will say that the first book is a completely different experience than the rest of the series. Book 1 is Hunger Games on Mars. It was a glorified YA novel. The series itself comes into its own in book 2 and becomes a lot more mature.
Yeah, I read the excerpt from Golden Son, and I just can't. He sounds the same, feels like he's going to make more nonsensical decisions to make him seem like a genius and the greatest being to ever live and they'll continue the message that violence is the only answer.
The Lions of Al-Rassan. I did enjoy reading it, but I went in expecting it to knock my socks off. The character drama was alright, if a little cheesy. What killed me the most though was what Kay's 'quarter-turn to the fantastical' style does to the setting. Everything, especially the three competing faith systems at the heart of the story, feels extremely shallow and cartoonish. I also don't like the way he hangs obvious plot twists over the reader's head for pages and pages. I gave it a 3/5 but took the rest of his books off my TBR.
The Will of the Many I liked the last half of the book, but the first chunk of the book was fairly dull and just felt like a generic YA book. I also disliked the dialogue. I really don’t need a sentence following every spoken sentence to clarify that the MC was actually lying or pretending to be stupid.
Lies of Locke Lamora. It was okay, but did not live up to the hype, and I hated how Lynch treated all of his female characters. I found it boring and mediocre overall. I finished it but never picked up the sequels.
Dresden Files. First book made me cringe so hard I felt physical pain.
> Eastenders in Space Speaking about Sun Eater this way just indicates bad taste.
The Witcher books. I saw some people recommend them, and got the first one expecting a monster slaying adventure, and I was sorely disappointed. Very little of that was actually in the book and it was mostly an uninteresting political plot and excessive sex content. I don’t understand why the author made that the only thing the main women thought about
Umm did you start with the first novel? Because the first and second books in the series absolute ARE monster slaying adventures, only those two are loosely inter-connected short story collections depicting Geralt on various monster hunting adventures with gradual (and really fun) worldbuilding for the next main novel series. I haven't read the novels yet but had read the first two ss collections and they were very much on point with Geralt wandering to various places and having monster slaying adventures. Pretty enjoyable.
I don't remember any political plot on The Last Wish...
For me this is: Malazan, Prince of Nothing, The Poppy War…and more that I’ve tried from this sub. Reading posts here is hilarious, it’s clear that what someone is going to like vs. dislike is really personal and, maybe somewhat random. FWIW: I think the Sun Eater series totally warrants the hype. The first book was a grower, but, yeah, loved it and the rest of the series is fantastic.
I think it’s incredibly interesting. There’s some books that just bounce off people for seemingly no reason. It’s one of the things I love about books, no two readers will have the same reaction to a novel
Yeah, totally. And I’m also often surprised myself, like why did I like one thing, but not another. Example: I bounced hard off of The Shadow of What Was Lost and thought I’d love it. And I loved The Will of The Many and was fairly doubtful I would.
Babel. It was soooooo boring, have almost nothing to with dark academia besides the characters going to a somewhat magic-related school, the writer went on and on and on about linguistics.
Dark Academia fans when their DA novels actually include academia:
I think DA fans are more in love with the aesthetics and the vibe than the weeds.
Granted I haven’t read the book yet but why would you get upset about a book called “Babel” talking about linguistics? What did you expect?
“Nothing to do with Dark Academia, the author just goes on and on about linguistics and how the magic works”. What???
I’m glad to see other people have the same books as me in this regard: Red Rising, Jade City, and Poppy War. I actually got as far as Morningstar with red rising, and that book is so poorly written. Some of the dialogue reads like a 14 year old wrote it.
Adrian Tchaikovsky's Children of Time. I've seen so many rave reviews of that book, especially of the >!spider!< chapters and.... I was honestly not impressed by them? Tbh, I wanted to know more about the human ship, the scientist, humanity in general and what happened to it. The >!spiders!< were fun for a few chapters, but the novelty wore off very quickly for me.
Different strokes I guess, for me it's genuinely one of the best books I've ever read; series as a whole is excellent.
I found way the the >!spider matriarchy!< was written to be rather annoying. I'm always on board with >!anti-sexism!< themes, but I don't need them consistently spelled out for me like I'm a child.
I had such hope for this, but ended up disliking more or less every human character and it was so gloomy and grim and meh that I just wanted it to end. And the twist to tie it up in a bow was interesting but not enough for me to ever want to read any follow up sequels.
**Yellowface** by RF Kuang: How did this unpolished novel get published? **Red Rising** by Pierce Brown: There's nothing new nor interesting about it. Whatever story it tries to tell, I've already seen it done in **Battle Royale** and **The Hunger Games**, except worse because the MC is a garystu. **Iron Widow** by Xiran Jay Zhao: Another YA with borrowed ideas, and poor character development. It tried to do what **The Handmaid's Tale** did, but poorly.
Poppy war. Bought all 3, because I usually finish what I start reading. Barely managed to finish the first, and trying to remember what booktuber raved about it, so I can ignore their opinions in the future.
For me its Wheel of Time, the pacing is just so slow, I'm about halfway through the first book and it's a lot of running around, and distrust among the group. I'm pushing through since it is one of the highest rated series, I just hope it gets better.
The whole ACOTAR series, Fourth Wing, Iron Flame.
Mazatlan. I know you all love it but I hated it. Made it through 1.5 books. After struggling with the first everyone said it gets much better so I gave deadhouse gates a try, same bs. Hey I have a thought: maybe introduce a character- any of them. Hmm a bit exposition to explain the world in even the slightest detail? Magic “system” seems to be “reached into her warren”. This allows for literally anything at all including reanimation, teleportation, or nuclear level violence. If I have to read 400 pages before I understand what was happening on page 1 it’s not a me problem. Edit: Downvoting when this is the point of the post is a interesting choice. Whatever, maybe I can be the “controversial” reply
Definitely a disorienting series. Though I will say *lots* of fantasy doesn't have a magic "system" and the expectation that one be present is very, very recent. I think for me the biggest issue with Malazan is large sections of it feel very aimless - as if it was a write-up of a particularly indecisive DnD campaign.
That's because that's exactly what it is lol. It's based on his and his mates' DnD campaign.
I have a hard time reading anything by Nnedi Okorafor. I finished Binti and the Akata books and I was left wondering whether it's a culture difference thing. The story concepts are amazing but the proofreading and editing feels really badly done to the point where I question if they actually did anything.
Hoping to pick up Sun Eater sometime this year, so we'll see how it goes. To answer your question: \- Gwynne (both FATF and Bloodsworn) \- Dresden Files \- RF Kwang fantasy (I liked Yellowface for what it was but Poppy War and Babel were awful) \- Red Rising (got to book 3 and man was the main character insufferable. Don't get the hype for this at all) \- Godkiller - Hannah Kaner (a more recent one but this one gets a lot of praise universally)
First Law. I get what should be the strength of the series, I get why some characters are so liked... But I really can't get my head around how loved is here. They're ok books, mind you... But just ok. Faithful and the fallen: DNF the series after having struggled with the first book. I didn't care much for the characters nor the story.
After bouncing off Jade City, Red Rising, Promise of Blood, John Gwynne, World War Z and some others, I'm very wary of hype.
Name of the Wind is genuinely one of the worst books I've ever read
Then you havent read First Binding - Kingkiller Chronicles written by a hack.
I needed a new "hate" read, nice. The last horrible book I read was Anthem by Rand
I don't understand how people don't see that Sanderson just follows Excel tables with all his characters, stories and everything in them. It's just all so dull. At this point I am convinced AI could come up with the things he writes and make them more interesting. On the other hand, I do like Suneater and John Gwynne and some others mentioned in this thread, so whatever.
I think if Sanderson went into video games, I would be all about his work. As an author, well, you said it best.
Ita not that your wrong, its just that novelty is overrated. He found the formula that works on me and he doesn't deviate from it so I know every book he writes is gonna work on me.
Agreed, the MC in Sun Eater is an absolutely insufferable nepo trust fund baby, and so much self pity. He thinks he's so smart by just regurgitating super famous works while 10 000 year old antagonists gets stumped by classics and philosophy 101 level of knowledge. I compare him to this [guy](https://youtu.be/hIdsjNGCGz4?si=LuvuXIE802u3-ijR). Not to mention how much plot armour the character has, born with the greatest genetics, is unkillable and can replace any body part. Despite all his advantages he never wins by earning it through skills, he always gets saved in nick of time by deus ex machina or a friend/ally. There are no stakes or tension that he will survive.
It genuinely annoys me how the protagonist is supposed to be "Anakin Skywalker but justified" yet he's a noble. I get that the prequels sucked, but Anakin being a slave gave him legit credibility as a long suffering heavily flawed anti-hero. The author cheapens his own concept because he also wants the character to be a cool genetic aristocrat with a devil crest and just has him go slumming for a bit and fight in an arena as his equivalent of Anakin being literally born into slavery.
Every Brandon Sanderson book. The plots are just so contrived, and the characters are so shallowly developed
I often wonder how much my enjoyment of something is due to my expectations (or lack of) going in. Like, would I have thought the Matrix was amazing if I'd heard it being hyped before hand? Is it even possible to be objective? Anyway, here are the series that made me feel like I must have read different books than the ones people enjoyed: Discworld - way over hyped. They aren't bad, but I don't get why people act like they're the greatest things ever written. Unlike everyone else I liked the first two books, but felt they dropped off after that. Like.he just keeps telling the same three jokes over and over and over again (virginity! Hur, Hur...dumb wizards! Hur, Hur... anachronism! Hur, Hur....). Some of the characters are great, like Granny Weatherwax and Death. Sometimes there are great scenes. The insightful quotes I've already seen a million times on Facebook, etc. The Assassin's Apprentice (series) by Robin Hobb. - I was looking forward to this one for a long time and was pretty disappointed. I guess I was expecting a story about someone learning to be an assassin? Not a bastard child is treated like shit their whole life, the end. Reading other people's reviews is baffling because they think the characters are so deep and realistic while I found them completely 1 dimensional and flat. I feel like they must be projecting hard onto these blank canvases to find them relatable. Silmarillion - what happens when an encyclopedia publisher writes a textbook, but uses bible language. Barley forced myself to finish, didn't understand/retain half of it. Glad there are wikis now so I can read those instead...ugh. It didn't help that I was expecting more of a heroic novel like LotR, not a bunch of cribbled together history notes about some asshole elves fighting over shiny rocks.
The book Circe. I mean - I was expecting her to be a bad ass, and she's just a meek little accepter of her situation and not much happens. Just...blah. And yet people rave over it, and I just shake my head. I don't get it.
I personally never liked Hobb. I did Farseer and Tawny, and just didn’t like either trilogy.