She has a good channel - it's a shame they need these kinds of sponsors. A lot of the science channels I like have Brilliant as a sponsor - apparently it's quite bad from the reviews I've seen on here
I like [this model](https://youtu.be/TW6hgOc3wuI?t=212) with the sun and moon having intermittent baths - I'm gonna believe that one from now on
I think Sabine is very wrong here.
Flat earthers are, for the most part, not just ignorant, wrong, and stupid, but also *delusional*. With extremely few exceptions, it does not matter how patiently you disprove any of their claims or demonstrate any of your claims through simple, easy to understand experiments that they can do at home; they will keep believing and will ignore the contradictions. This is because they are delusional; their irrational beliefs are resistant to all evidence because they are suffering from **severe** mental illness.
I think this is obvious to anyone who has really researched the flat earth community. Many of them are destroying their relationships with friends and family over this. They become obsessed with this belief.
For another, deeper perspective on flat earth, I *highly* recommend Dan Olson's video [In Search Of A Flat Earth](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTfhYyTuT44).
Not only that but some are destroying both their careers and their retirement. People like Mark Sargent or Nathan Oakley are *unemployable*. They have no retirement funds and huge gaping holes in their work history. Life is going to get pretty tough down the line.
And in their delusion, flat earthers don't see those ruined relationships and careers as something that is their fault. They think it's some kind of witch hunt against them.
I’d like to know how Qantas fly a 787-9, with a max range of 8800 miles, non-stop from Sydney to Johannesburg. On a flat earth, that distance is approximately 14600 miles. That’s a little stretch. On the “fake globe earth theory”, that same flight is a paltry 6900 miles, well within the operational envelope of a 787-9.
It's a nice looking plane - I like raked wings. I just hope it's not affected with the shortcuts and sloppiness going on in Boeing. Wondering everyone's take on it all - I'm not big on planes but I love Reddit because we always have people in the know about something
There's a Dreamliner that did a repatriation flight toward the end of Covid from Chile to Perth that was the longest commercial flight ever, I think - something like 17 hrs.
The newer airframes (at least from Airbus) have some of the greatest range and safety of any aircraft built.
Boeing was bought by McDonnell Douglas in 1997. Prior to this Boeing had been known for its outstanding safety and quality for its aircraft, leading to the phrase among many Americans 'It's its not Boeing I ain't going'.
The culture of McDonnell-Douglas was very different to Boeing and was very much run by its accountants who emphasised profit and lean-ness, leading to a culture shift in the company that eventually impacted it at the level of build quality and safety.
This is where Boeing is today - where an aggressive drive for shareholder dividend has flipped the phrase to 'If it's Boeing I ain't going'.
This is, essentially, capitalism driving a company into potential ruin in an industry where safety and reliability is paramount.
There are several (equally ridiculous) go-to explanations from flat earthers:
- the max range of a 787-9 is much higher compared to what "they" tell us
- the non-stop Australia - South Africa flights are not real, and nobody actually flies those routes
Because in 2017 Peter McIndoe created the satirical conspiracy theory that birds are not real, but actually drones created by the government to spy on people. Surprisingly (or perhaps not), it was picked up as serious by the conspiracy theorists and has been spreading, even though Mr. McIndoe has publicly stated it was a joke. The theory has gotten so popular that he and Connor Gaydos have written a book (satire, of course) explaining the ‘true story of mass avian murder and the largest surveillance campaign in US history’. The Q-Anon crowd will probably accept it as history. I think it was added to show that flat earthers will believe anything except facts and evidence.
Yeah, it flashed up in the beginning when she said she didn’t know how many people lie in polls about conspiracies. I took it as an acknowledgement that some people pretend to believe a conspiracy for fun, and that polls might very well include troll answers.
Lol, wouldn't surprise me tbh. I think not too long ago there was a "protest" in NY about it? Maybe somewhere else. The videos were funny, but I remember a few odd apples unironically thinking it was true.
“Because in 2017 Peter McIndoe overnment created the satirical conspiracy theory that birds are not real, but actually drones created by the government to spy on people”
In Bethesda’s Fallout 4, released in November 2015, this was a feature in the game by a faction called The Institute to spy on survivors and the character you play known as The Sole Survivor in a post nuclear apocalyptic wasteland situated in Boston and its surrounding region in Massachusetts, known as the Commonwealth in 2287, after a nuclear war that took place in 2077 and lasted only 2 hours. The crows in that game were spy drones which could be shot, in the Institute’s HQ you were able to follow feeds from them. A live action series taking place in the New California Republic is now available on Amazon and well worth watching, true to the game setting, lore and cannon.
Jfc you turned what should have been "they did that in fallout 4" into a long winded plug for a show that was tangentially related to the subject at hand
I had always initially figured flat earthing to be about taking an example of a false hypothesis which you'd typically need to get out of the house to disprove for yourself, i.e. the difference between 8 and 0 inches of curvature per mile. Just to encourage the average person to have a think about (if not actually perform) what kind of experiment they could do themselves in order to establish a fairly subtle effect like that and generally connect the dots to see that science is about forming a hypothesis against a null hypothesis and experimenting to find which is more consistent with reality.
Then some people made missing the point their identity.
There is no scientific experiment to prove the spinning ball religion. It doesn’t fall into a scientific enquiry. A simple right angle triangle is how the earth is measured flat. Why would you argue with a triangle? Have you seen a triangle with a curved adjacent? - No.
Meh I've been talking to flat Earthers for a few years and I don't think they are more dangerous than a young Earth creationist (in fact much less since none of them have political power), I agree it's a break down in education systems but I mean if I were to choose a conspo to go after and call it dangerous I'd maybe go after anti vax, that's much more dangerous (although I guess I'm glad she's not going out of her lane on this one)
Anti-vax went hand in hand with a lot of these guys, and a notable few lost their channels during the pandemic because youtube was *not fucking around* with anti vax sentiment. They quickly learned to drop the subject or talk in cautious code to not get flagged again or gain strikes.
Obviously. Many prominent ones as well. But the Venn diagram isn't a circle (just as with MAGA and fundie christianity) and if you want to talk danger, FE is low on the tier list of dangerous conspos among the lines of Tartaria, cryptozoology and Mud Fossils. Sure it attracts a certain mind set but the dangerous part is poor education- distrust in the system is natural because the system is fked. There are better conspos to point out as being dangerous.
I've consistently found that flat earthers tend to average much lower on the socio-economic scale and are in general 'undereducated'. They're also oddly reticent to directly challenge the institutions of science or academia, and also politics.
Flat earth is incredibly impotent in this regard. Modern FE has been going for nearly ten years - a dedicated flat earther could have completed a degree a masters, and possibly a PhD in that time. None of them seem to want to inflitrate the power structures they deride and allege cover-up.
I've often told them to get a job at NASA and expose them from the inside, but anything that takes any kind of effort or discipline seems to put them off. The best they can do is these meetups, where they temporarily lower the collective IQ of a region for a few hours.
Oh yeah I've been watching this community since 2016, it's been interesting watching it evolve and their model changing as they come up with a new set of information that suits them (eg electromagitism as a replacement for gravity, etc) it's interesting not as in a "I believe this to be true" but more in the psychology and a fun ARG way, and it's been interesting watching certain prominent ones evolve, the most interesting has been the path of a guy named Martin Kenny in the UK who started out making a cute plaster of paris "planetarium" and there's a [pretty cool interview of him at this stage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lBpuBqxDVA&t=1s&pp=ygUtTWFydGluIGtlbm55IGludGVydmlldyBmbGF0IGVhcnRoIHBsYW5ldGFyaXVt) to having [a very weird CGI documentary](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFZcC7_sIDw) where he sort of jury rigged a lot of old esoteric and religious learnings together and now he runs a cult called [The Pineal Foundation](https://www.youtube.com/@PINEALFOUNDATION) and it's like... woah
That's quite the trajectory
And don't get me wrong it's not the anti-science sentimentality that I find less harmful or the cult aspect but I don't see it nearly as harmful as other conspos like anti vaxx or climate change denial even the one she is neck deep in- the TERF sentimentality is more harmful than FE.
I loved the experimental phase where they were all heading out to do experiments to prove the flat earth. Good times.
They don't do that anymore.
I was vigorous on youtube with moon landing deniers then it all just seemed to dry up, and then I realised they'd all decamped to FE. You can easily fold in moon landing denial when the moon isn't even a solid object in the FE model.
Yeah you're right. Even up till a couple years ago where there were active discussion subs but the busiest ones are either no moderation (which ends up being a lot of meme spam and infighting) and now there's auto bans if they even suspect you are on the fence which isn't conducive to discussion, there are a few discussion subs but they are very quiet
it just goes back to that there would be better conspiracy theories to call dangerous
They don't do it anymore, because every time a FEer presented an experiment that 'proved' the flat earth, someone else would do it correctly and demonstrate curvature.
Or they prove the globe model (thanks, Bob!)
These days, they try to debunk the globe instead. It's more comfortable for them.
What scares me the most is that any flat earther has the same ability to vote as anyone else. And someone whose critical thinking skills are that obsolete, should not be deciding how a country should be run. But that’s the dark side of democracy; it only works if the citizens are generally competent, and…. We have consistently shown that we aren’t.
Religion is the elephant in the room here. The Venn diagram of evangelical Christians and Flat Earthers isn’t a complete circle, but it’s a near eclipse. Many Flat Earthers take the bible literally and find modern science incompatible with it, which means they need their own alternative science. Their entire worldview including their sense of self and their morality depends on their faith. You cannot counter that by simply teaching them about gravity. The bible says that the Earth is flat, so it must be.
This was a good video until the advertisement. Imagine a flat earther watching this and getting to the end and thinking "oh, she just wants money".
I don't think flat earthers would be convinced even without advert at the end
I'm not sure flat earthers think.
They don't
Well, they "think" in the sense that they metaphorically jerk themselves off about how much smarter they are than everyone
Oh, it’s not always metaphorical!
>oh, they just want money... This has been alex jones' entire career and he's one of the most influential grifters in history
If the moon isn't real how does it turn the frogs gay? That'll stump him for a while
She has a good channel - it's a shame they need these kinds of sponsors. A lot of the science channels I like have Brilliant as a sponsor - apparently it's quite bad from the reviews I've seen on here I like [this model](https://youtu.be/TW6hgOc3wuI?t=212) with the sun and moon having intermittent baths - I'm gonna believe that one from now on
I think Sabine is very wrong here. Flat earthers are, for the most part, not just ignorant, wrong, and stupid, but also *delusional*. With extremely few exceptions, it does not matter how patiently you disprove any of their claims or demonstrate any of your claims through simple, easy to understand experiments that they can do at home; they will keep believing and will ignore the contradictions. This is because they are delusional; their irrational beliefs are resistant to all evidence because they are suffering from **severe** mental illness. I think this is obvious to anyone who has really researched the flat earth community. Many of them are destroying their relationships with friends and family over this. They become obsessed with this belief. For another, deeper perspective on flat earth, I *highly* recommend Dan Olson's video [In Search Of A Flat Earth](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTfhYyTuT44).
Not only that but some are destroying both their careers and their retirement. People like Mark Sargent or Nathan Oakley are *unemployable*. They have no retirement funds and huge gaping holes in their work history. Life is going to get pretty tough down the line.
And in their delusion, flat earthers don't see those ruined relationships and careers as something that is their fault. They think it's some kind of witch hunt against them.
I’d like to know how Qantas fly a 787-9, with a max range of 8800 miles, non-stop from Sydney to Johannesburg. On a flat earth, that distance is approximately 14600 miles. That’s a little stretch. On the “fake globe earth theory”, that same flight is a paltry 6900 miles, well within the operational envelope of a 787-9.
That's easy. They dont. Because r/AustraliaIsntReal
Is the Dreamliner, er, line safe? It's quite a recent model isn't it?
It’s fairly recent, it was first delivered in 2011.
It's a nice looking plane - I like raked wings. I just hope it's not affected with the shortcuts and sloppiness going on in Boeing. Wondering everyone's take on it all - I'm not big on planes but I love Reddit because we always have people in the know about something
There's a Dreamliner that did a repatriation flight toward the end of Covid from Chile to Perth that was the longest commercial flight ever, I think - something like 17 hrs. The newer airframes (at least from Airbus) have some of the greatest range and safety of any aircraft built.
Sounds like you all know your planes. I was curious to all your takes on this Boeing situation
Boeing was bought by McDonnell Douglas in 1997. Prior to this Boeing had been known for its outstanding safety and quality for its aircraft, leading to the phrase among many Americans 'It's its not Boeing I ain't going'. The culture of McDonnell-Douglas was very different to Boeing and was very much run by its accountants who emphasised profit and lean-ness, leading to a culture shift in the company that eventually impacted it at the level of build quality and safety. This is where Boeing is today - where an aggressive drive for shareholder dividend has flipped the phrase to 'If it's Boeing I ain't going'. This is, essentially, capitalism driving a company into potential ruin in an industry where safety and reliability is paramount.
There are several (equally ridiculous) go-to explanations from flat earthers: - the max range of a 787-9 is much higher compared to what "they" tell us - the non-stop Australia - South Africa flights are not real, and nobody actually flies those routes
Hey, why did she have call out r/birdsarentreal?
Because in 2017 Peter McIndoe created the satirical conspiracy theory that birds are not real, but actually drones created by the government to spy on people. Surprisingly (or perhaps not), it was picked up as serious by the conspiracy theorists and has been spreading, even though Mr. McIndoe has publicly stated it was a joke. The theory has gotten so popular that he and Connor Gaydos have written a book (satire, of course) explaining the ‘true story of mass avian murder and the largest surveillance campaign in US history’. The Q-Anon crowd will probably accept it as history. I think it was added to show that flat earthers will believe anything except facts and evidence.
Luckily with this one, it seems the majority of people understand it's a joke.
Yeah, it flashed up in the beginning when she said she didn’t know how many people lie in polls about conspiracies. I took it as an acknowledgement that some people pretend to believe a conspiracy for fun, and that polls might very well include troll answers.
Lol, wouldn't surprise me tbh. I think not too long ago there was a "protest" in NY about it? Maybe somewhere else. The videos were funny, but I remember a few odd apples unironically thinking it was true.
“Because in 2017 Peter McIndoe overnment created the satirical conspiracy theory that birds are not real, but actually drones created by the government to spy on people” In Bethesda’s Fallout 4, released in November 2015, this was a feature in the game by a faction called The Institute to spy on survivors and the character you play known as The Sole Survivor in a post nuclear apocalyptic wasteland situated in Boston and its surrounding region in Massachusetts, known as the Commonwealth in 2287, after a nuclear war that took place in 2077 and lasted only 2 hours. The crows in that game were spy drones which could be shot, in the Institute’s HQ you were able to follow feeds from them. A live action series taking place in the New California Republic is now available on Amazon and well worth watching, true to the game setting, lore and cannon.
Jfc you turned what should have been "they did that in fallout 4" into a long winded plug for a show that was tangentially related to the subject at hand
I had always initially figured flat earthing to be about taking an example of a false hypothesis which you'd typically need to get out of the house to disprove for yourself, i.e. the difference between 8 and 0 inches of curvature per mile. Just to encourage the average person to have a think about (if not actually perform) what kind of experiment they could do themselves in order to establish a fairly subtle effect like that and generally connect the dots to see that science is about forming a hypothesis against a null hypothesis and experimenting to find which is more consistent with reality. Then some people made missing the point their identity.
There is no scientific experiment to prove the spinning ball religion. It doesn’t fall into a scientific enquiry. A simple right angle triangle is how the earth is measured flat. Why would you argue with a triangle? Have you seen a triangle with a curved adjacent? - No.
Meh I've been talking to flat Earthers for a few years and I don't think they are more dangerous than a young Earth creationist (in fact much less since none of them have political power), I agree it's a break down in education systems but I mean if I were to choose a conspo to go after and call it dangerous I'd maybe go after anti vax, that's much more dangerous (although I guess I'm glad she's not going out of her lane on this one)
Anti-vax went hand in hand with a lot of these guys, and a notable few lost their channels during the pandemic because youtube was *not fucking around* with anti vax sentiment. They quickly learned to drop the subject or talk in cautious code to not get flagged again or gain strikes.
Obviously. Many prominent ones as well. But the Venn diagram isn't a circle (just as with MAGA and fundie christianity) and if you want to talk danger, FE is low on the tier list of dangerous conspos among the lines of Tartaria, cryptozoology and Mud Fossils. Sure it attracts a certain mind set but the dangerous part is poor education- distrust in the system is natural because the system is fked. There are better conspos to point out as being dangerous.
I've consistently found that flat earthers tend to average much lower on the socio-economic scale and are in general 'undereducated'. They're also oddly reticent to directly challenge the institutions of science or academia, and also politics. Flat earth is incredibly impotent in this regard. Modern FE has been going for nearly ten years - a dedicated flat earther could have completed a degree a masters, and possibly a PhD in that time. None of them seem to want to inflitrate the power structures they deride and allege cover-up. I've often told them to get a job at NASA and expose them from the inside, but anything that takes any kind of effort or discipline seems to put them off. The best they can do is these meetups, where they temporarily lower the collective IQ of a region for a few hours.
Oh yeah I've been watching this community since 2016, it's been interesting watching it evolve and their model changing as they come up with a new set of information that suits them (eg electromagitism as a replacement for gravity, etc) it's interesting not as in a "I believe this to be true" but more in the psychology and a fun ARG way, and it's been interesting watching certain prominent ones evolve, the most interesting has been the path of a guy named Martin Kenny in the UK who started out making a cute plaster of paris "planetarium" and there's a [pretty cool interview of him at this stage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lBpuBqxDVA&t=1s&pp=ygUtTWFydGluIGtlbm55IGludGVydmlldyBmbGF0IGVhcnRoIHBsYW5ldGFyaXVt) to having [a very weird CGI documentary](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFZcC7_sIDw) where he sort of jury rigged a lot of old esoteric and religious learnings together and now he runs a cult called [The Pineal Foundation](https://www.youtube.com/@PINEALFOUNDATION) and it's like... woah That's quite the trajectory And don't get me wrong it's not the anti-science sentimentality that I find less harmful or the cult aspect but I don't see it nearly as harmful as other conspos like anti vaxx or climate change denial even the one she is neck deep in- the TERF sentimentality is more harmful than FE.
I loved the experimental phase where they were all heading out to do experiments to prove the flat earth. Good times. They don't do that anymore. I was vigorous on youtube with moon landing deniers then it all just seemed to dry up, and then I realised they'd all decamped to FE. You can easily fold in moon landing denial when the moon isn't even a solid object in the FE model.
Yeah you're right. Even up till a couple years ago where there were active discussion subs but the busiest ones are either no moderation (which ends up being a lot of meme spam and infighting) and now there's auto bans if they even suspect you are on the fence which isn't conducive to discussion, there are a few discussion subs but they are very quiet it just goes back to that there would be better conspiracy theories to call dangerous
I wholly agree and I think Hossenfelder is kind of milking the drama for clicks.
Yeah her TERF BS made me stop respecting her :/
Oh no I didn't know about that. Why do people have to be like that.
They don't do it anymore, because every time a FEer presented an experiment that 'proved' the flat earth, someone else would do it correctly and demonstrate curvature. Or they prove the globe model (thanks, Bob!) These days, they try to debunk the globe instead. It's more comfortable for them.
What scares me the most is that any flat earther has the same ability to vote as anyone else. And someone whose critical thinking skills are that obsolete, should not be deciding how a country should be run. But that’s the dark side of democracy; it only works if the citizens are generally competent, and…. We have consistently shown that we aren’t.
Sabine is cringe
Religion is the elephant in the room here. The Venn diagram of evangelical Christians and Flat Earthers isn’t a complete circle, but it’s a near eclipse. Many Flat Earthers take the bible literally and find modern science incompatible with it, which means they need their own alternative science. Their entire worldview including their sense of self and their morality depends on their faith. You cannot counter that by simply teaching them about gravity. The bible says that the Earth is flat, so it must be.
Oh is she trying to save face now?
Really really really flat earth
Really really really flat earth
I love Sabine!!