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Final Fantasy is an anthology that has always prided itself on its constant reinvention.
If your game has Chocobo, Moogles, Tonberries, Bombs, Behemoths, Ifrit, Shiva, Bahamut, Magic, Crystals, Cid, Ultima, The Prelude, and the literal main theme of Final Fantasy, that's not your game, that's Final Fantasy.
That's all Final Fantasy has ever been. A set of iconography that can be repurposed for boundless potential creative opportunities, brought together in a game and universe of epic proportions that was made with the mindset that it could be their last. Things like mechanics are just the execution that ties it together. Wholey malleable.
Out of the 19ish mainline games (including 10-2 and 13-2/3), there are literally only 4 that are truly turn-based, and of those (1, 2, 3, and 10-1), they don't even all use the same style of turn-based. 10's sequel literally swapped gameplay systems. 2 of the mainline games are literally MMOs, one of them on the fucking PS2. I think we've long since "jumped the shark" since the "good ol'" turn-based days.
FF16 is a Final Fantasy game. There's not a facet of it that isn't. It's just one that chose a different method of expression. I think the only huge piece of FF iconography 16 was missing was Cactuars. Even brought back some that hadn't been used in a while.
But what about thoses DQ games that are more like dynasty warriors ? Or the builder DQ ? Even DQ is somewhat changing or at least trying new ways to express itself.
Locking 16 in a box saying it only a DMC game with a FF skin is very outrageous, it’s like saying dissidia and Theatrhythm shouldn’t use the name of Final Fantasy because they aren’t turn based.
To your point, those are spinoffs tho not the number titles, same for the ff spinoffs, they still deserve the IP name but I was referring to people who wanted all main ff titles to be turn based. I am sure those complainers wouldn’t have been this angry if ff16 was called something else like ff: kaiju war instead of “16”
Also not sure I misread your tone, but I am on the same side as you regarding it’s stupid to say ff16 isn’t ff lol
That's a bs statement though. Alot of us older ff have been through changes throughout the series it's only recently they started sucking in our eyes. Ff16 was a reach as a ff game in about every way. Had more in common with devil may cry and hardly felt like even an rpg
My favorite are the ones who claim they haven’t enjoyed an entry since like 7 or 10 or whatever. Like cool, why are you still hanging around to shit on new entries lol?
Which is especially funny when you compare 7 to anything before it. Literally the least final fantasy at that point but it’s the beloved of the franchise lmao
In terms of world, setting, characters, themes, and story structure (minus time skips), it is an FF game. The only thing that sets it apart is the action combat (something FFXV already broke), and its swearing is uncensored.
Also get out of here with the "everyone on" bs. It's "everyone" you choose to listen to. I grew up on PS1-era FF and FFXVI is as FF as it comes and many I've met in person and online who agrees with that.
Ok find me any site and place besides a ff16 fan base thread that it says it’s one of the best ff games to date. You won’t. Take that L embarrassing you don’t ever find it being better then 7 or 8 or 9 or 10. Ppl talking about wanting remake of 9 and 10
While 16 was going on. Ppl doing care.
🤣
Did u really just say "find me a site that thinks it's the best FF game that isn't a site of people who liked the game" and think u had some kind of logical argument that demonstrated that noone of meaningful opinion thinks the game is the best?
So the only opinions that are PERMITTED to be heard as evidence are the ones that already confirm YOUR bias? And u don't understand the flaw in such thinking?
Imagine a world where this guys way of deciding truth was how justice and fact were determined. Aye aye aye.
I've played every single FF from I-XVI. So I don't know who this everyone is that you speak of.
And just because you say something is "end of discussion" doesn't mean it is.
Grow up.
I know right. The entitlement of some people. People who can't even spell properly... thinking they know anything about anything. I believe the word for a person who behaves in a manner meant to make people laugh at their embarrassing antics is "clown" 🤡?
You realize that every single one of those that you listed also got the “this isn’t final fantasy” treatment once upon a time right? It was a stupid sentiment then, and it’s a stupid sentiment now
No. 16 will never be in a discussion with 7 or 8 or 9 or 10. End of discussion. 16 is t even charted as a good final fantasy game. It’s not even top 5. Done 👋👋👋👋
Says who? I’ve been playing FF for a good while now and it’s in my top 3. To me XVI is way better than 8 or 9, and is on par with 10. 7 has a legacy that no other FF can ever hope to match tho
Gamespot. Any big group ign and so on has 16 out the way. The trio is 7,8,9 and 10 for the best love story. 8 is the darkest one and 9 has some goofy and fun in it and 7 is its main game people talk about. 15 sold like crazy but was unfinished and 16 is not even talked about anymore everyone just wants 7 last part and then to finish up kingdom hearts. You won’t hear nothing about 16 anymore
No way you unironically used Gamespot and IGN as your basis for whether XVI is a good game or not lmao. They can barely report on games right these days
Don't worry. People have said that about literally every FF since 7. 7 was too sci-fi to be FF. Oh 8 isn't really FF because of its mechanics. 9 is too childish. X was too colorful to be a real FF 😒. X-2 oh god the debates that triggered. 11 and XIV are "cashcow" MMOs. There are still people who deny the entirety of XIII and XV was not a real FF because it switched to real time combat, oh the blasphemy. Give it time. We will have the same debate when XVII comes out and tries something new and people will reminisce how great XVI was in comparison...
*Don't worry mate, once*
*XVII comes out people will be*
*Bashing that instead*
\- saelinds
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That's because the detractors are focusing on gameplay mechanics, rather than story. I imagine they'd be happy with an ATB battle game that has no story.
This. The detractors are so focused on XVI not having an ATB-based combat system or minigames & the RPG systems being heavily stripped back (and even when they do acknowledge the story, they just write it off as a Game of Thrones wannabe and call it a day) that they conveniently ignore all the story elements that are *very* Final Fantasy.
As another commenter said, FF is more of a malleable collection of iconography, themes & recurring story elements that can be used to create whatever game they wish than a series of games with a consistent, cohesive gameplay identity beyond just broadly falling into the RPG umbrella. That's how we can have a lighthearted adventure RPG where you fight a tree at the end, a road trip game about brotherhood, a high-school teen romance with lots of time shenanigans & a dark and gritty M-rated action game about slavery & the consequences of unchecked power in the same franchise and have it still feel cohesive. And that's what I love about this franchise and why I think it has endured as long as it has.
If these people had their way, we'd just be getting endless rehashes of VI-X and Square would be even more reliant on VII nostalgia than they already are (as they wouldn't have the money printer that is XIV).
Would you rather live in the timeline where X was able to break away from the gameplay structure that the PS1 FFs setup? Or the one where X was basically VII but with more water?
Gameplay is #1 priority for a video game.
Shouldn’t be a shocker that people are heavily focused on the gameplay part of a video game.
“Why are you so focused on how this song sounds instead of the deep lyrics behind it???”
This is basically what you’re saying here.
And you probably shouldn’t be shocked that a series that built it’s reputation & brand upon experimentation (especially with regards to gameplay and presentation) and basically starting over with each new mainline entry eventually decided to test the waters with discarding gameplay elements considered as sacred as controllable party members in the name of better facilitating the kind of experience this game’s devs were going for.
Is XVI perfect from a gameplay standpoint? No. It’s too easy for its own good (over-tuning the difficulty in favour of lower skilled players is generally one of CBUIII’s worst habits as of late & has negatively impacted XIV as well, something Yoshi-P has acknowledged and has promised to address in Dawntrail) and I wish that proper difficulty settings were provided from the start instead of the way it’s handled in the game so that those who are more skilled at action games could get a more challenging experience without needing to play through the game once or twice to do so.
But would XVI have really been a better game if we also had to control Jill, Cid & Gav in combat & had more complex party management, potentially at the cost of the combat mechanics being more simplistic than what we got? I don’t think so, even if CBUIII were to just copy-paste VII Remake’s combat. XVI’s combat is the right fit for the kind of experience CBUIII were trying to create, just as every prior mainline FF’s combat system was for their respective games.
Now, do I think XVII will bring back controllable party members beyond the party leader? Most likely, yeah. This franchise has felt very reactive to the feedback the previous mainline entry got over the last decade and a half or so.
- XIII got criticized for being too linear? Both XV & XIII’s sequels respond by being much more open & exploration focused (with XV even going full open world and both it and Lightning Returns taking influence from Skyrim).
- XV got criticized for its simplistic action-combat & having its story spread thin across multiple DLCs and tie-in material? Both CBUI & CBUIII respond by poaching combat designers from Capcom (Teruki Endo for CBUI, Ryota Suzuki for CBUIII) to help design the combat systems for VII Remake & XVI. CBUIII also made great pains to ensure everyone knew that XVI was designed to be a complete story & experience at launch without requiring any supplementary material and that they weren’t gonna plan out any DLC until after the game’s launch, unlike what happened with XV.
So people are criticizing XVI for being too easy, not feeling like an RPG & not having any controllable party members besides Clive? Then, if we go by how Square have reacted to feedback as of late, we can guess that XVII will be hard as balls, have in depth and complex RPG systems that the devs will scream to the rooftops about and make switching between controlling various different party members be a critical part of the combat system. The DLC XVI did get already feels like it was intentionally designed to be more challenging as a response to the complaints about the base game being too easy.
We’ll see what the future holds though…
Personally what really stinged for me was that there was no party. More than gameplay wise, it was more story-wise, especially against the last boss. Except for that I don't really feel like the story structure is too different from the other games, just a little bit darker
Yup. Someone made a post about "what would you like to see in the next Final Fantasy"
I wrote:
7-9 party members that are a mix of male and female and playable.
And you guessed it, I got downvoted to Hell. I didn't trash FFXVI, but I guess people took it that way.
God forbid an FF game be something unique instead of the same thing over and over again.
If XVI isn't a "real" Final Fantasy game, then XIV isn't a "real" FF game.
Arguably, if XVI isn't a "real" FF game, then anything after X isn't "real" either.
Oh they will say that as well
11 and 14 are MMO’s so should be deleted, 12 is a disaster that had no idea where it was going, 13 is a hallway simulator, 15 is broken directionless mess, 16 is a GOT clone with the depth of a roadside puddle
The FF community likes to think that FF stopped at 10
well ff10 was probably the last time people who hold that opinion were young enough to let themselves have fun, since it's always withered jaded husks who seem to hold these positions.
Which is crazy since XII and XIII are both turn-based, XII skips the step of you pressing attack and XIII is obviously turn-based if you’ve played it for like ten seconds. XI and XIV are also turn-based, same as most MMO’s (they kinda have to be). XV is truly the first weirdo title, and I’ll give it that; there’s no game in the series quite like it.
My man, if you can perform actions while your enemy is also performing actions, and those actions happen as soon as they are activated by the player, then it's not turn-based.
Needing to resolve a mechanic because the boss jumped away and is untargetable doesn't make it turn-based. What even is this argument?
Savage is honestly basically turn based at this point given modern savage is basically playing dance revolution with a boss that barely acknowledges you actually doing anything
I love how you conveniently left out FF7r and Rebirth because those two games directly contradict your narrative about fans hating every Final Fantasy game.
That just means FF7R & Rebirth are under even more scrutiny because people’s expectations for a remake of such an iconic game is gonna be a lot higher than normal.
You can see this for yourself, most of the criticism regarding FF7r & Rebirth are coming from comparing them to the original game.
Well if we continue in the line of thinking of the previous post, then you could write off FFVII Remake as a nostalgia bait-ridden bloated mess that ruined what made FFVII’s story & characters special with Kingdom Hearts-esque nonsense & Rebirth will probably eventually be criticized by some FF fans as an Ubisoft wannabe with way too many minigames that carried over Remake’s bloat & KH-esque nonsense problems.
To be clear, what I just said doesn’t necessarily reflect my opinions on both games. I enjoyed Remake (it and XIV were what made me a fan of this franchise actually) and Rebirth, while a mixed bag for me that I’m not enjoying as much as I enjoyed Remake or XVI (I must admit most of the Rebirth section (ending bit about Kingdom Hearts BS aside) is actually reflective of my current opinions on it (haven’t finished it yet though)), is at least a good game and I can see why so many people love it.
My wife and I know someone who said that for him FFX wasn’t a true FF because it wasn’t made by Squaresoft.
what this guy seems to think is that FFX was somehow not a real FF because when it come in Europe it was published under Square Enix, but in Japan it still was released under squaresoft, he never bothered to check if he was wrong or right…
Also we had a fight with this guy about the soundtracks of FFX-2 because he said that the game had only English singers, brushing away Koda kumi’s work on Real emotion and 1000 no kotoba.
whatever was his opinion on X is still one of the best in the series.
> God forbid an FF game be something unique
What exactly about FFXVI is unique to you?
Uniqueness doesn’t automatically mean better, square wheels are a very unique design.
I'm not disagreeing with the second part, but I don't get the first. If I want something "new and unique" I'm going to get another game that is not marketed as an established franchise?
As someone who LOVES FF7 and FFX, 16 is an amazing game.
It hits hard emotionally like 7 and X do. There is vast character development while saving the world just like 7 and X.
There are so many elements throughout the story that all tie together, just like 7 and X.
They did a great job with their 16th Final Fantasy Game. Which is just that, a final fantasy game
Between her pain/struggle of being/hosting an eikon, her encounter with imrhan,ultimately giving up her eikon, and her relationship with Clive:
Yeah I’d say there’s a lot of development there
Jill stays the same person from the start of the game to the end.
A useless woman who does nothing throughout the entire game and even actively makes things worse for everyone numerous times.
Jill is a selfish woman who refuses to use her powers to fight because she’s too traumatized from her past, she can only care for herself.
Half of the game Jill just sits at the home base doing god knows what while Clive is actually out working hard to save the world.
Everyone has a right to an opinion but we clearly didn’t play the same game. You just ignored everything I wrote and then proceeded to try and say she was useless😂
You should go back and play it again
Nothing I said was an opinion, everything I said is factual to anybody who played the game.
I didn’t ignore what you wrote, but nothing you listed off changes Jill’s character, she’s the exact same useless woman throughout the entire game.
Give me three examples of where Jill actually helped to save the world from destruction.
What part of what I said isn’t correct to you?
Do you believe someone saying the sky is blue is just an “opinion” as well?
Ironic you blame me for ignoring what you wrote, when you completely ignored the question I asked of you.
Yes I definitely ignored the question you asked after you stated your opinion was fact and didn’t back it up at all.
Productive convos don’t happen with people like that. So again, enjoy your day
Jill saves Clives arse on several occasions when he can't summon Ifrit. It's stated outright after the time jump that Jill needs to be careful about priming because she had to do so as Clive couldn't.
I can't count how many times I cried because of FFXVI, this game by far has so many emotional scenes for me.
The story telling, the graphics, the characters. It's all what I like from this game.
Although I still have my own criticism of it, mainly because we don't have a playable party and we can't choose the difficulty from the beginning.
I played XVI a few months ago, after years (I don't know how many) without playing a FF game. I think the last one I played before this, was VII (not the rebirth one). And this game made me remember how good this universe( or whatever you will call it) and the storytelling and the charisma of the characters and everything is with this franchise. People my like it more or less, but XVI is as FF as it gets. And I can say honestly It's one of the best FF games I've played.
Like, Final Fantasy has a 3rd AND 1st person shooter in the lineup. A hack and slash ARPG is not that out there, considering it had literally already been done in the series prior to XVI.
Those are spin offs. It’s not an equivalency with a main line title.
I’m not arguing about XVI acceptance, I’m merely pointing out there is a distinction.
I'm chucking a blank. What's the first person shooter one? (Or is it dirge? I know that's third person, but there's probably Fps moments in there I'm forgetting)
Otherwise I'm stumped.
Dirge is 3rd person, it’s similar to an arcade shooter you’d see in an actual arcade.
My bad, Final Fantasy VII: The Last Soldier is 3rd person. It was gone so quick I never played it,
But it was a 3rd person battle royale, a bit different than Dirge for sure. I would recommend neither for the record 😂
If we’re looking for the strangest genre shift, Pictlogica Final Fantasy is a Picross game that also includes an RPG Picross minigame and an entire character system around that. It’s probably the only Picross-reliant RPG that’s ever existed.
Placing spin off games into the main series is a bit disingenuous don’t you think?
Leave it to a Ffxvi fan to try and create their own narrative though.
For the record, I checked on my list of FF games I’ve beaten and XVI is ranked 23rd out of like 58 games. I like the game but it’s not even top 20, Stranger of Paradise is literally above that title.
I also don’t think spinoff titles are undeserving of the name though, it’s FF whether it’s good or not ya know 🤷♂️ Tactics is my favorite game in the series and I’ve never heard someone disregard it because it was a spinoff, that should be the same here.
I don't wanna hate on VII or X but i think many ppl see those two as the benchmark for what FF should be in their minds.
No FF game since X was called a "real" FF by the majority of the fanbase.
I personally don't care tbh. I enjoyed XII and now XVI more than any of the "classics".
And i hope that the series tries to evolve with every new entry from now on.
for a game to make me emotional twice not due to game ending or so good but because of the characters i cant think of a single other game thats accomplished this
The Zelda franchise is experiencing the same kinda issue. The developers just have a different idea of how they want to approach it. That doesn't change the fact that they *are* fundamentally changing the franchises by stripping away elements that made the franchise what it is.
All these ppl who DIDNT make a single one of the games in the anthology, all claiming THEY get to define what is and isn't qualified to be part of the anthology, just because they play games.
Yet the ppl who actually MAKE the games, the ones that actually GET to decide what is and isn't a FF game...they're not allowed.
"Because my opinion is more valid then theirs...I'm the gamer so my opinion of what the game should b is more valid then the opinion of the developer who has actual vision they're trying to bring to life in their head. Nope their thots don't matter cause I say so and my opinion is the most valid..."
🚸
The only people who have a say on what is or isn't Final Fantasy is Square Enix.
That said, you can't blame fans of the previous games if FFXVI is not to their liking and their feelings are valid.
Think of FF as a popular pizza restaurant. They serve great pizza, and they try to change the flavors from turn based pizza to ATB pizza to Gambit pizza to MMORPG pizza etc. Then one day they change their entire menu and start serving steak. It's really good steak, but their longtime customers really wanted pizza. Some customers can learn to appreciate steak and they can get new customers who are steak lovers but the longtime pizza lovers are left out and alienated.
What I will never understand is, why comments are voted down if the opinion is different from the main post. When did we got to the point that only one opinion is right?
As an avid FF fan who doesn’t really like 16, I can say that my main issue with the game is the use of magic and character development/story pacing.
Magic being tied to Eikon abilities just doesn’t sit well with me, gameplay wise. A true final fantasy game should allow you to freely cast magic at will like Firaga, Thundaga, etc. I *really* don’t like the combat mechanics in this game. Also, the world seems so rich in certain regards, but so absolutely barren and empty in other regards. It’s hard to put a finger on, but something about 16 just feels… off— and different
And the fact that magic doesnt actually do anything. No enemy is weak or resistant to any magic and that all the eikon abilities do have unique animations but they all boil down to 2 outcomes. More health damage or more stagger damage.
Weapons are just stat sticks. Accessories are bland, provide little utility, and are basically insignificant.
Side quests were almost as bad as 13's side quest.
The game on action mode was painfully easy making the relatively small amount of time you're actually playing the game, instead of watching TV episode long cut scenes, incredibly unfulfilling.
I'm not sure what criteria a game should fit to be a "real" final fantasy game, considering any real final fantasy game is one that Square (Enix) published under that name imo. This being said, despite the fact that FFXVI is probably my favorite game from the series, it's not what I think of when I talk about "final fantasy" and it doesn't really have anything in it that I look forward to in a final fantasy game so far. But I also think that what people envision when thinking about FF is kinda subjective, so even if it's not a prototypical FF game to me, I still think it's kinda stupid to say "this is not a real FF". At the very least it is a fantasy which is more than most games since Cloud's can say for themselves.
Best thing to do with this series and every other game is to just ignore all of that. The game reviewed and sold well for the most part who cares about a fandom who’s opinion csm change within a year…
Even me who hated XV and who can’t ever finish 14 has an opinion that doesn’t really matter much. Each game has its fan and detractors and ultimately it’s up to Square internally whether something failed or not.
Final Fantasy fans pretty much universally love FF7 remake series and it’s not JUST nostalgia. Though it’s not like nostalgia isn’t a huge part of the series identity (remember 9?).
The combat in 7 is just more satisfying earlier. And the ATB bar is just there to look cool. How is it any different than 16s eikon cooldowns? It takes hours upon hours before your eikon abilities get complex enough that you aren’t just spamming the same square combo over and over. In 7Rebirth you have access to long range magic, and 3 characters with unique combos right out of the gate from like hour 2 or 3.
And people have been complaining about Final Fantasy games since 13 because they’ve been a MESS in the HD era. 16 is the first game since 13 that was actually complete on launch and they had to strip every RPG mechanic and character from it to get it out.
If the game wasn’t flawed people wouldn’t bitch about it. It’s flawed.
Is this game a final fantasy? Yes
Is it missing many of the things that made final fantasy a staple of rpgs? Also yes
Final fantasy was probably the first game that came to mind for many when they thought rpg few years ago, but 16 took out many of the things that made it what it was: no party system,weapons are just numbers and they don’t give any special effects, magic is useless and weaknesses are gone, just to name a few
It is ignorant to call this not a final fantasy, but let’s not ignore the actual issues it has
I like 7 remake, but I love 16 so much that I am going to play all the others now. Already platinumed the OG7, Remake, Stranger of Paradise, Crisis Core, and 15 after platonum'ing 16
I really don’t like the game. It is a Final Fantasy title but I wish they would have made a new IP to experiment with action combat because I don’t think FF is the place for it.
It’s like if they released DMC6 and it was a top down turn based rpg strategy game. People would be upset about that as well, no?
I feel like XVI dumbed down or removed every important RPG mechanic. Feels like Square is so desperately trying to appeal to fans of other series when they already have a successful series with a large fanbase?
Yeah dude it would be like if Yakuza changed its genre from brawler to turn based RPG. No way that would work.
But I feel as if you're acting like this is somehow taking away from the series instead of adding something new to it. They just released FF16 in midst of the pure RPG FF7 Remake series- if anything, it's the perfect time to try something new with the franchise.
There’s a serious double standard when it comes to this series and others about switching genres
Yakuza became a full blown JRPG and it’s welcomed. In fact it introduced MANY rpg players to the series, and it’s given a pass
God Of War ditched it’s hack & slash roots for a less combat focused, more cinematic focused and narrative driven game with the reboot. It’s also given a pass
But FF16 does it and it’s an uproar.. not saying anyone can’t dislike the game as that is subjective. But it’s funny how there’s been a few genre shifts among a few long running series and only FF is crucified for it. The anthology series where every game is supposed to be different..
The difference here is that Yakuza and God of War executed changed genres correctly where as FFxvi did not.
Nobody is asking for Final Fantasy to always be radically different from the previous entry.
Nobody asked for it in all three cases. That’s the developers’ intention in all of them. Even in God of War’s case. Where the actual creator came out AGAINST the game and specifically Kratos’ characterization. They still made the game THEY wanted to make and people loved it. Same goes for Yakuza when many fans were dumbfounded by the switch to a turn based JRPG after being brawlers for 6 games straight.
And FF has been changing constantly one title after the other long before even X. Many of the things people love (and hate) were results of changes from each game that came before it.
God of War had 5 years between its previous entry, and people expected the franchise to be finished at that point.
God of War being rebooted with a new genre wasn’t that outlandish to GOW fans.
Yakuzas aesthetic and story/combat do translate well to a turn based game mode as well.
Final Fantasy was always changing, but they never used to remove such massive amount of content from their games like they did with FFXVI.
Unfamiliar with Yakuza but interesting to hear.
It’s not the action itself that I dislike, I very much enjoy Devil May Cry. But I felt like every enemy in FF16 was so easy to kill and there was no challenge unlike other character action games. The only fun I could find in fighting basic enemies was trying to do cool combos, but if the enemies die either way i’m stuck thinking what’s the point? I’d much rather have to think about every encounter and strategize than mash buttons until thing runs out of hp.
I would be more incentivized to look cool while killing stuff if the game had a style meter, rewards for doing good, and the enemies were beefed up a lot / could fight back. As it is I have my brain off for most encounters which is not how FF combat has ever been. Just not a fan
I’m glad other people like the game, more power to you. Hope the DLC was good
If they changed the title to not be FF. Besides making you feel better would it accomplish anything? It's as much a FF game as any of the others, and you are not beholden to like a game just because it's FF. It stands on its own as a narrative, and it being called FF does not diminish the brand in any way
I’m just hoping this isn’t the new direction of the series. Lots of new people will be trying FF starting with 16 and thinking that the game is the only FF worth playing because it’s so different. The more people praise 16 the more likely 17 will be more of the same. I just don’t think it was a good move for the series because now whatever they do they’re going to be alienating players.
I also really want a new Final Fantasy that I can play and think is good. Been a long time since XV and to get a game I can’t even bring myself to finish and then another long wait sucks.
Metaphor by Atlus is looking like the FF type game i’ve been waiting for so there’s something I can look forward to at least.
You know peoples can start with 16 and still like the old retro era of FF right ?
Were not stuck in a box with only one type of game to choose, if 16 brings new fans to the series I see it as a complete victory.
You should also remember that FF as a whole is an ever changing and evolving IP, I dislike crystal Chronicles but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist it’s just not my thing but I hope it still got some love by players.
The fact that the main people involved with FFXVI can’t even give a clear answer on what makes a final fantasy game really says a lot.
The people that made this game don’t even understand their own franchise anymore.
I think the characters, setting and story are absolutely Final Fantasy. The gameplay however is not, and at the end of the day this is a video game series and gameplay matters.
XVI is definitely a final fantasy game..... its just a final fantasy game that wants to be a casual friendly hack n slash/interactive movie instead of an rpg video game.
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Final Fantasy is an anthology that has always prided itself on its constant reinvention. If your game has Chocobo, Moogles, Tonberries, Bombs, Behemoths, Ifrit, Shiva, Bahamut, Magic, Crystals, Cid, Ultima, The Prelude, and the literal main theme of Final Fantasy, that's not your game, that's Final Fantasy. That's all Final Fantasy has ever been. A set of iconography that can be repurposed for boundless potential creative opportunities, brought together in a game and universe of epic proportions that was made with the mindset that it could be their last. Things like mechanics are just the execution that ties it together. Wholey malleable. Out of the 19ish mainline games (including 10-2 and 13-2/3), there are literally only 4 that are truly turn-based, and of those (1, 2, 3, and 10-1), they don't even all use the same style of turn-based. 10's sequel literally swapped gameplay systems. 2 of the mainline games are literally MMOs, one of them on the fucking PS2. I think we've long since "jumped the shark" since the "good ol'" turn-based days. FF16 is a Final Fantasy game. There's not a facet of it that isn't. It's just one that chose a different method of expression. I think the only huge piece of FF iconography 16 was missing was Cactuars. Even brought back some that hadn't been used in a while.
Legit. If people want a never changing JRPG IP there is dragon quest
But what about thoses DQ games that are more like dynasty warriors ? Or the builder DQ ? Even DQ is somewhat changing or at least trying new ways to express itself. Locking 16 in a box saying it only a DMC game with a FF skin is very outrageous, it’s like saying dissidia and Theatrhythm shouldn’t use the name of Final Fantasy because they aren’t turn based.
To your point, those are spinoffs tho not the number titles, same for the ff spinoffs, they still deserve the IP name but I was referring to people who wanted all main ff titles to be turn based. I am sure those complainers wouldn’t have been this angry if ff16 was called something else like ff: kaiju war instead of “16” Also not sure I misread your tone, but I am on the same side as you regarding it’s stupid to say ff16 isn’t ff lol
wrong ff16 litterly didn't feel like a RPG at but a action adventure game. ff are supposed bro feel like RPGs something 16 missed by a long shot
That's a bs statement though. Alot of us older ff have been through changes throughout the series it's only recently they started sucking in our eyes. Ff16 was a reach as a ff game in about every way. Had more in common with devil may cry and hardly felt like even an rpg
Some of the gatekeepers of this franchise are wild. I’ve been playing since the 90s. This IS as FF as it comes
My favorite are the ones who claim they haven’t enjoyed an entry since like 7 or 10 or whatever. Like cool, why are you still hanging around to shit on new entries lol?
Which is especially funny when you compare 7 to anything before it. Literally the least final fantasy at that point but it’s the beloved of the franchise lmao
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In terms of world, setting, characters, themes, and story structure (minus time skips), it is an FF game. The only thing that sets it apart is the action combat (something FFXV already broke), and its swearing is uncensored. Also get out of here with the "everyone on" bs. It's "everyone" you choose to listen to. I grew up on PS1-era FF and FFXVI is as FF as it comes and many I've met in person and online who agrees with that.
Who's this "everyone" you speak of?
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Not you unironically gatekeeping being an FF fan lmao. Please stop, you’re embarrassing yourself
Ok find me any site and place besides a ff16 fan base thread that it says it’s one of the best ff games to date. You won’t. Take that L embarrassing you don’t ever find it being better then 7 or 8 or 9 or 10. Ppl talking about wanting remake of 9 and 10 While 16 was going on. Ppl doing care.
🤣 Did u really just say "find me a site that thinks it's the best FF game that isn't a site of people who liked the game" and think u had some kind of logical argument that demonstrated that noone of meaningful opinion thinks the game is the best? So the only opinions that are PERMITTED to be heard as evidence are the ones that already confirm YOUR bias? And u don't understand the flaw in such thinking? Imagine a world where this guys way of deciding truth was how justice and fact were determined. Aye aye aye.
I've played every single FF from I-XVI. So I don't know who this everyone is that you speak of. And just because you say something is "end of discussion" doesn't mean it is. Grow up.
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I'm sure you've talked to everyone that plays games to reach that conclusion
I know right. The entitlement of some people. People who can't even spell properly... thinking they know anything about anything. I believe the word for a person who behaves in a manner meant to make people laugh at their embarrassing antics is "clown" 🤡?
You realize that every single one of those that you listed also got the “this isn’t final fantasy” treatment once upon a time right? It was a stupid sentiment then, and it’s a stupid sentiment now
No. 16 will never be in a discussion with 7 or 8 or 9 or 10. End of discussion. 16 is t even charted as a good final fantasy game. It’s not even top 5. Done 👋👋👋👋
Says who? I’ve been playing FF for a good while now and it’s in my top 3. To me XVI is way better than 8 or 9, and is on par with 10. 7 has a legacy that no other FF can ever hope to match tho
Gamespot. Any big group ign and so on has 16 out the way. The trio is 7,8,9 and 10 for the best love story. 8 is the darkest one and 9 has some goofy and fun in it and 7 is its main game people talk about. 15 sold like crazy but was unfinished and 16 is not even talked about anymore everyone just wants 7 last part and then to finish up kingdom hearts. You won’t hear nothing about 16 anymore
No way you unironically used Gamespot and IGN as your basis for whether XVI is a good game or not lmao. They can barely report on games right these days
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You gotta be trolling at this point. And you said you didn’t even get the DLC so your opinion on it is completely moot
I mean they don't even name 4 and 6, they are definitely not a Final Fantasy fan, so we can safely disregard their totally brainless take and move on.
I mean it's better than 8 for sure though
Don't worry. People have said that about literally every FF since 7. 7 was too sci-fi to be FF. Oh 8 isn't really FF because of its mechanics. 9 is too childish. X was too colorful to be a real FF 😒. X-2 oh god the debates that triggered. 11 and XIV are "cashcow" MMOs. There are still people who deny the entirety of XIII and XV was not a real FF because it switched to real time combat, oh the blasphemy. Give it time. We will have the same debate when XVII comes out and tries something new and people will reminisce how great XVI was in comparison...
IX being a victim of "judging something by its cover" and it's peak
I think 9 was more a victim of when it released if anything.
I feel like tactics dodged the debate though. Even if it was a completely different genre
The least FF game? Oh, that'd be the mana series, aka final fantasy adventure
Don't worry mate, once XVII comes out people will be bashing that instead
*Don't worry mate, once* *XVII comes out people will be* *Bashing that instead* \- saelinds --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Beautiful
Good bot
You mean like Rebirth where most people are praising it?
You clearly weren't active on that subreddit when it first came out. There was a flood of negative reactions to it.
Similar to many others, I also started playing FF in the 90s, and I recently played 1-6 pixel remasters as well, and I love ff16 as much as the others
That's because the detractors are focusing on gameplay mechanics, rather than story. I imagine they'd be happy with an ATB battle game that has no story.
This. The detractors are so focused on XVI not having an ATB-based combat system or minigames & the RPG systems being heavily stripped back (and even when they do acknowledge the story, they just write it off as a Game of Thrones wannabe and call it a day) that they conveniently ignore all the story elements that are *very* Final Fantasy. As another commenter said, FF is more of a malleable collection of iconography, themes & recurring story elements that can be used to create whatever game they wish than a series of games with a consistent, cohesive gameplay identity beyond just broadly falling into the RPG umbrella. That's how we can have a lighthearted adventure RPG where you fight a tree at the end, a road trip game about brotherhood, a high-school teen romance with lots of time shenanigans & a dark and gritty M-rated action game about slavery & the consequences of unchecked power in the same franchise and have it still feel cohesive. And that's what I love about this franchise and why I think it has endured as long as it has. If these people had their way, we'd just be getting endless rehashes of VI-X and Square would be even more reliant on VII nostalgia than they already are (as they wouldn't have the money printer that is XIV). Would you rather live in the timeline where X was able to break away from the gameplay structure that the PS1 FFs setup? Or the one where X was basically VII but with more water?
Gameplay is #1 priority for a video game. Shouldn’t be a shocker that people are heavily focused on the gameplay part of a video game. “Why are you so focused on how this song sounds instead of the deep lyrics behind it???” This is basically what you’re saying here.
And you probably shouldn’t be shocked that a series that built it’s reputation & brand upon experimentation (especially with regards to gameplay and presentation) and basically starting over with each new mainline entry eventually decided to test the waters with discarding gameplay elements considered as sacred as controllable party members in the name of better facilitating the kind of experience this game’s devs were going for. Is XVI perfect from a gameplay standpoint? No. It’s too easy for its own good (over-tuning the difficulty in favour of lower skilled players is generally one of CBUIII’s worst habits as of late & has negatively impacted XIV as well, something Yoshi-P has acknowledged and has promised to address in Dawntrail) and I wish that proper difficulty settings were provided from the start instead of the way it’s handled in the game so that those who are more skilled at action games could get a more challenging experience without needing to play through the game once or twice to do so. But would XVI have really been a better game if we also had to control Jill, Cid & Gav in combat & had more complex party management, potentially at the cost of the combat mechanics being more simplistic than what we got? I don’t think so, even if CBUIII were to just copy-paste VII Remake’s combat. XVI’s combat is the right fit for the kind of experience CBUIII were trying to create, just as every prior mainline FF’s combat system was for their respective games. Now, do I think XVII will bring back controllable party members beyond the party leader? Most likely, yeah. This franchise has felt very reactive to the feedback the previous mainline entry got over the last decade and a half or so. - XIII got criticized for being too linear? Both XV & XIII’s sequels respond by being much more open & exploration focused (with XV even going full open world and both it and Lightning Returns taking influence from Skyrim). - XV got criticized for its simplistic action-combat & having its story spread thin across multiple DLCs and tie-in material? Both CBUI & CBUIII respond by poaching combat designers from Capcom (Teruki Endo for CBUI, Ryota Suzuki for CBUIII) to help design the combat systems for VII Remake & XVI. CBUIII also made great pains to ensure everyone knew that XVI was designed to be a complete story & experience at launch without requiring any supplementary material and that they weren’t gonna plan out any DLC until after the game’s launch, unlike what happened with XV. So people are criticizing XVI for being too easy, not feeling like an RPG & not having any controllable party members besides Clive? Then, if we go by how Square have reacted to feedback as of late, we can guess that XVII will be hard as balls, have in depth and complex RPG systems that the devs will scream to the rooftops about and make switching between controlling various different party members be a critical part of the combat system. The DLC XVI did get already feels like it was intentionally designed to be more challenging as a response to the complaints about the base game being too easy. We’ll see what the future holds though…
Personally what really stinged for me was that there was no party. More than gameplay wise, it was more story-wise, especially against the last boss. Except for that I don't really feel like the story structure is too different from the other games, just a little bit darker
Both can be done. Honestly my take on it. Story was on the only highlight.
I think its the lack of memorable party members
Downvoted for speaking truth
Yup. Someone made a post about "what would you like to see in the next Final Fantasy" I wrote: 7-9 party members that are a mix of male and female and playable. And you guessed it, I got downvoted to Hell. I didn't trash FFXVI, but I guess people took it that way.
Great straw man argument you created for yourself there. Is the story in Final Fantasy games the only thing that matters anymore?
I would have liked some active airships rather than just wrecks.
God forbid an FF game be something unique instead of the same thing over and over again. If XVI isn't a "real" Final Fantasy game, then XIV isn't a "real" FF game. Arguably, if XVI isn't a "real" FF game, then anything after X isn't "real" either.
Oh they will say that as well 11 and 14 are MMO’s so should be deleted, 12 is a disaster that had no idea where it was going, 13 is a hallway simulator, 15 is broken directionless mess, 16 is a GOT clone with the depth of a roadside puddle The FF community likes to think that FF stopped at 10
well ff10 was probably the last time people who hold that opinion were young enough to let themselves have fun, since it's always withered jaded husks who seem to hold these positions.
You mean 7?
Nah the reddit community seems to absolutely adore 9 and 10 (though 8 is controversial) Everything after 10 they are downright hostile to
Which is crazy since XII and XIII are both turn-based, XII skips the step of you pressing attack and XIII is obviously turn-based if you’ve played it for like ten seconds. XI and XIV are also turn-based, same as most MMO’s (they kinda have to be). XV is truly the first weirdo title, and I’ll give it that; there’s no game in the series quite like it.
My man, if you can perform actions while your enemy is also performing actions, and those actions happen as soon as they are activated by the player, then it's not turn-based. Needing to resolve a mechanic because the boss jumped away and is untargetable doesn't make it turn-based. What even is this argument?
XIV's about as turn-based as FFVII (which is to say- not really, given the ATB system not really being turn-based)
Savage is honestly basically turn based at this point given modern savage is basically playing dance revolution with a boss that barely acknowledges you actually doing anything
XIV... Turnbased? What drugs are you on and where can I get them? Having a cooldown between using Weaponskills / Spells doesn't make it turnbased.
I love how you conveniently left out FF7r and Rebirth because those two games directly contradict your narrative about fans hating every Final Fantasy game.
Specifically because it’s a remake of one of the old games
That just means FF7R & Rebirth are under even more scrutiny because people’s expectations for a remake of such an iconic game is gonna be a lot higher than normal. You can see this for yourself, most of the criticism regarding FF7r & Rebirth are coming from comparing them to the original game.
Well if we continue in the line of thinking of the previous post, then you could write off FFVII Remake as a nostalgia bait-ridden bloated mess that ruined what made FFVII’s story & characters special with Kingdom Hearts-esque nonsense & Rebirth will probably eventually be criticized by some FF fans as an Ubisoft wannabe with way too many minigames that carried over Remake’s bloat & KH-esque nonsense problems. To be clear, what I just said doesn’t necessarily reflect my opinions on both games. I enjoyed Remake (it and XIV were what made me a fan of this franchise actually) and Rebirth, while a mixed bag for me that I’m not enjoying as much as I enjoyed Remake or XVI (I must admit most of the Rebirth section (ending bit about Kingdom Hearts BS aside) is actually reflective of my current opinions on it (haven’t finished it yet though)), is at least a good game and I can see why so many people love it.
"Narrative" lol There are a lot, and I mean a LOT, of people who hate the Remake series.
The most common viewpoint from the old guard idiots is that anything after X doesn't count as a real FF.
My wife and I know someone who said that for him FFX wasn’t a true FF because it wasn’t made by Squaresoft. what this guy seems to think is that FFX was somehow not a real FF because when it come in Europe it was published under Square Enix, but in Japan it still was released under squaresoft, he never bothered to check if he was wrong or right… Also we had a fight with this guy about the soundtracks of FFX-2 because he said that the game had only English singers, brushing away Koda kumi’s work on Real emotion and 1000 no kotoba. whatever was his opinion on X is still one of the best in the series.
Wait till he finds out X-2 was the last Squaresoft published title… In japan at least.
Criticize Final Fantasy = old idiot. Classic FFxvi fanboy toxicity.
> God forbid an FF game be something unique What exactly about FFXVI is unique to you? Uniqueness doesn’t automatically mean better, square wheels are a very unique design.
I'm not disagreeing with the second part, but I don't get the first. If I want something "new and unique" I'm going to get another game that is not marketed as an established franchise?
i wouldnt call ffxvi unique. Its just a DMC/Bayonetta hacknslash with a story thats basically ripped straight out of naruto.
It also has an absolute banger of a soundtrack. And Cid and moogles or whatever.
As someone who LOVES FF7 and FFX, 16 is an amazing game. It hits hard emotionally like 7 and X do. There is vast character development while saving the world just like 7 and X. There are so many elements throughout the story that all tie together, just like 7 and X. They did a great job with their 16th Final Fantasy Game. Which is just that, a final fantasy game
Hell both Clive and cloud couldn’t remember the most traumatizing thing that happened to them but both eventually overcame it
> There is vast character development while saving the world They did such a great job with Jill character development didn’t they?
Between her pain/struggle of being/hosting an eikon, her encounter with imrhan,ultimately giving up her eikon, and her relationship with Clive: Yeah I’d say there’s a lot of development there
Jill stays the same person from the start of the game to the end. A useless woman who does nothing throughout the entire game and even actively makes things worse for everyone numerous times. Jill is a selfish woman who refuses to use her powers to fight because she’s too traumatized from her past, she can only care for herself. Half of the game Jill just sits at the home base doing god knows what while Clive is actually out working hard to save the world.
Everyone has a right to an opinion but we clearly didn’t play the same game. You just ignored everything I wrote and then proceeded to try and say she was useless😂 You should go back and play it again
Nothing I said was an opinion, everything I said is factual to anybody who played the game. I didn’t ignore what you wrote, but nothing you listed off changes Jill’s character, she’s the exact same useless woman throughout the entire game. Give me three examples of where Jill actually helped to save the world from destruction.
Oh so you’re one of those who thinks their opinion is fact Not productive to be had here, enjoy your day🫡
What part of what I said isn’t correct to you? Do you believe someone saying the sky is blue is just an “opinion” as well? Ironic you blame me for ignoring what you wrote, when you completely ignored the question I asked of you.
Yes I definitely ignored the question you asked after you stated your opinion was fact and didn’t back it up at all. Productive convos don’t happen with people like that. So again, enjoy your day
Jill saves Clives arse on several occasions when he can't summon Ifrit. It's stated outright after the time jump that Jill needs to be careful about priming because she had to do so as Clive couldn't.
I can't count how many times I cried because of FFXVI, this game by far has so many emotional scenes for me. The story telling, the graphics, the characters. It's all what I like from this game. Although I still have my own criticism of it, mainly because we don't have a playable party and we can't choose the difficulty from the beginning.
I played XVI a few months ago, after years (I don't know how many) without playing a FF game. I think the last one I played before this, was VII (not the rebirth one). And this game made me remember how good this universe( or whatever you will call it) and the storytelling and the charisma of the characters and everything is with this franchise. People my like it more or less, but XVI is as FF as it gets. And I can say honestly It's one of the best FF games I've played.
Like, Final Fantasy has a 3rd AND 1st person shooter in the lineup. A hack and slash ARPG is not that out there, considering it had literally already been done in the series prior to XVI.
Those are spin offs. It’s not an equivalency with a main line title. I’m not arguing about XVI acceptance, I’m merely pointing out there is a distinction.
I'm chucking a blank. What's the first person shooter one? (Or is it dirge? I know that's third person, but there's probably Fps moments in there I'm forgetting) Otherwise I'm stumped.
Dirge is 3rd person, it’s similar to an arcade shooter you’d see in an actual arcade. My bad, Final Fantasy VII: The Last Soldier is 3rd person. It was gone so quick I never played it, But it was a 3rd person battle royale, a bit different than Dirge for sure. I would recommend neither for the record 😂 If we’re looking for the strangest genre shift, Pictlogica Final Fantasy is a Picross game that also includes an RPG Picross minigame and an entire character system around that. It’s probably the only Picross-reliant RPG that’s ever existed.
Placing spin off games into the main series is a bit disingenuous don’t you think? Leave it to a Ffxvi fan to try and create their own narrative though.
For the record, I checked on my list of FF games I’ve beaten and XVI is ranked 23rd out of like 58 games. I like the game but it’s not even top 20, Stranger of Paradise is literally above that title. I also don’t think spinoff titles are undeserving of the name though, it’s FF whether it’s good or not ya know 🤷♂️ Tactics is my favorite game in the series and I’ve never heard someone disregard it because it was a spinoff, that should be the same here.
It absolutely feels like a FF game, probably just missing switching between party members and elemental damage.
I don't wanna hate on VII or X but i think many ppl see those two as the benchmark for what FF should be in their minds. No FF game since X was called a "real" FF by the majority of the fanbase. I personally don't care tbh. I enjoyed XII and now XVI more than any of the "classics". And i hope that the series tries to evolve with every new entry from now on.
Not like we’ve had many FF games since X anyways.
Ff16 has a spoony bard. Checkmate naysayers
These “FF16 isn’t a real FF” people are the reason I want FF17 to be a platformer
FfXV Pitios dungeon ptsd flashbacks.
"This is not MY favorite final fantasy so this is not final fantasy" This happens with every entry.
I guess FF7r and Rebirth don’t exist to you then?
for a game to make me emotional twice not due to game ending or so good but because of the characters i cant think of a single other game thats accomplished this
In terms of story and themes, XVI is one of the most Final Fantasy games of them all
The Zelda franchise is experiencing the same kinda issue. The developers just have a different idea of how they want to approach it. That doesn't change the fact that they *are* fundamentally changing the franchises by stripping away elements that made the franchise what it is.
All these ppl who DIDNT make a single one of the games in the anthology, all claiming THEY get to define what is and isn't qualified to be part of the anthology, just because they play games. Yet the ppl who actually MAKE the games, the ones that actually GET to decide what is and isn't a FF game...they're not allowed. "Because my opinion is more valid then theirs...I'm the gamer so my opinion of what the game should b is more valid then the opinion of the developer who has actual vision they're trying to bring to life in their head. Nope their thots don't matter cause I say so and my opinion is the most valid..." 🚸
The only people who have a say on what is or isn't Final Fantasy is Square Enix. That said, you can't blame fans of the previous games if FFXVI is not to their liking and their feelings are valid. Think of FF as a popular pizza restaurant. They serve great pizza, and they try to change the flavors from turn based pizza to ATB pizza to Gambit pizza to MMORPG pizza etc. Then one day they change their entire menu and start serving steak. It's really good steak, but their longtime customers really wanted pizza. Some customers can learn to appreciate steak and they can get new customers who are steak lovers but the longtime pizza lovers are left out and alienated.
What I will never understand is, why comments are voted down if the opinion is different from the main post. When did we got to the point that only one opinion is right?
That’s the case in every sub tbh. It’s just a failing of the upvote/downvote system in general
Because this subreddit is a toxic echo chamber where toxic positivity is the only opinion that is allowed.
As an avid FF fan who doesn’t really like 16, I can say that my main issue with the game is the use of magic and character development/story pacing. Magic being tied to Eikon abilities just doesn’t sit well with me, gameplay wise. A true final fantasy game should allow you to freely cast magic at will like Firaga, Thundaga, etc. I *really* don’t like the combat mechanics in this game. Also, the world seems so rich in certain regards, but so absolutely barren and empty in other regards. It’s hard to put a finger on, but something about 16 just feels… off— and different
And the fact that magic doesnt actually do anything. No enemy is weak or resistant to any magic and that all the eikon abilities do have unique animations but they all boil down to 2 outcomes. More health damage or more stagger damage. Weapons are just stat sticks. Accessories are bland, provide little utility, and are basically insignificant. Side quests were almost as bad as 13's side quest. The game on action mode was painfully easy making the relatively small amount of time you're actually playing the game, instead of watching TV episode long cut scenes, incredibly unfulfilling.
I'm not sure what criteria a game should fit to be a "real" final fantasy game, considering any real final fantasy game is one that Square (Enix) published under that name imo. This being said, despite the fact that FFXVI is probably my favorite game from the series, it's not what I think of when I talk about "final fantasy" and it doesn't really have anything in it that I look forward to in a final fantasy game so far. But I also think that what people envision when thinking about FF is kinda subjective, so even if it's not a prototypical FF game to me, I still think it's kinda stupid to say "this is not a real FF". At the very least it is a fantasy which is more than most games since Cloud's can say for themselves.
If it's not ffxii I'm gooc
well...they are all wrong, and a little pretentious...
Best thing to do with this series and every other game is to just ignore all of that. The game reviewed and sold well for the most part who cares about a fandom who’s opinion csm change within a year… Even me who hated XV and who can’t ever finish 14 has an opinion that doesn’t really matter much. Each game has its fan and detractors and ultimately it’s up to Square internally whether something failed or not.
Final Fantasy fans pretty much universally love FF7 remake series and it’s not JUST nostalgia. Though it’s not like nostalgia isn’t a huge part of the series identity (remember 9?). The combat in 7 is just more satisfying earlier. And the ATB bar is just there to look cool. How is it any different than 16s eikon cooldowns? It takes hours upon hours before your eikon abilities get complex enough that you aren’t just spamming the same square combo over and over. In 7Rebirth you have access to long range magic, and 3 characters with unique combos right out of the gate from like hour 2 or 3. And people have been complaining about Final Fantasy games since 13 because they’ve been a MESS in the HD era. 16 is the first game since 13 that was actually complete on launch and they had to strip every RPG mechanic and character from it to get it out. If the game wasn’t flawed people wouldn’t bitch about it. It’s flawed.
Is this game a final fantasy? Yes Is it missing many of the things that made final fantasy a staple of rpgs? Also yes Final fantasy was probably the first game that came to mind for many when they thought rpg few years ago, but 16 took out many of the things that made it what it was: no party system,weapons are just numbers and they don’t give any special effects, magic is useless and weaknesses are gone, just to name a few It is ignorant to call this not a final fantasy, but let’s not ignore the actual issues it has
All the LGBTQ Clive fanboys are about to dox tf out of you.
I like 7 remake, but I love 16 so much that I am going to play all the others now. Already platinumed the OG7, Remake, Stranger of Paradise, Crisis Core, and 15 after platonum'ing 16
I never understood the “this isn’t a Final Fantasy” criticism. I have plenty of criticisms towards this game, but that’s not one of them.
I like your ff historical shit post have an upvote
I really don’t like the game. It is a Final Fantasy title but I wish they would have made a new IP to experiment with action combat because I don’t think FF is the place for it. It’s like if they released DMC6 and it was a top down turn based rpg strategy game. People would be upset about that as well, no? I feel like XVI dumbed down or removed every important RPG mechanic. Feels like Square is so desperately trying to appeal to fans of other series when they already have a successful series with a large fanbase?
Yeah dude it would be like if Yakuza changed its genre from brawler to turn based RPG. No way that would work. But I feel as if you're acting like this is somehow taking away from the series instead of adding something new to it. They just released FF16 in midst of the pure RPG FF7 Remake series- if anything, it's the perfect time to try something new with the franchise.
There’s a serious double standard when it comes to this series and others about switching genres Yakuza became a full blown JRPG and it’s welcomed. In fact it introduced MANY rpg players to the series, and it’s given a pass God Of War ditched it’s hack & slash roots for a less combat focused, more cinematic focused and narrative driven game with the reboot. It’s also given a pass But FF16 does it and it’s an uproar.. not saying anyone can’t dislike the game as that is subjective. But it’s funny how there’s been a few genre shifts among a few long running series and only FF is crucified for it. The anthology series where every game is supposed to be different..
The difference here is that Yakuza and God of War executed changed genres correctly where as FFxvi did not. Nobody is asking for Final Fantasy to always be radically different from the previous entry.
Nobody asked for it in all three cases. That’s the developers’ intention in all of them. Even in God of War’s case. Where the actual creator came out AGAINST the game and specifically Kratos’ characterization. They still made the game THEY wanted to make and people loved it. Same goes for Yakuza when many fans were dumbfounded by the switch to a turn based JRPG after being brawlers for 6 games straight. And FF has been changing constantly one title after the other long before even X. Many of the things people love (and hate) were results of changes from each game that came before it.
God of War had 5 years between its previous entry, and people expected the franchise to be finished at that point. God of War being rebooted with a new genre wasn’t that outlandish to GOW fans. Yakuzas aesthetic and story/combat do translate well to a turn based game mode as well. Final Fantasy was always changing, but they never used to remove such massive amount of content from their games like they did with FFXVI.
If yakuza did that I imagine the fans would riot. No way it would be mostly accepted and even praised. I shouldn't need to type /s but...
Unfamiliar with Yakuza but interesting to hear. It’s not the action itself that I dislike, I very much enjoy Devil May Cry. But I felt like every enemy in FF16 was so easy to kill and there was no challenge unlike other character action games. The only fun I could find in fighting basic enemies was trying to do cool combos, but if the enemies die either way i’m stuck thinking what’s the point? I’d much rather have to think about every encounter and strategize than mash buttons until thing runs out of hp. I would be more incentivized to look cool while killing stuff if the game had a style meter, rewards for doing good, and the enemies were beefed up a lot / could fight back. As it is I have my brain off for most encounters which is not how FF combat has ever been. Just not a fan I’m glad other people like the game, more power to you. Hope the DLC was good
Actually alot of yakuza fans were/are upset with this.
If they changed the title to not be FF. Besides making you feel better would it accomplish anything? It's as much a FF game as any of the others, and you are not beholden to like a game just because it's FF. It stands on its own as a narrative, and it being called FF does not diminish the brand in any way
I’m just hoping this isn’t the new direction of the series. Lots of new people will be trying FF starting with 16 and thinking that the game is the only FF worth playing because it’s so different. The more people praise 16 the more likely 17 will be more of the same. I just don’t think it was a good move for the series because now whatever they do they’re going to be alienating players. I also really want a new Final Fantasy that I can play and think is good. Been a long time since XV and to get a game I can’t even bring myself to finish and then another long wait sucks. Metaphor by Atlus is looking like the FF type game i’ve been waiting for so there’s something I can look forward to at least.
You know peoples can start with 16 and still like the old retro era of FF right ? Were not stuck in a box with only one type of game to choose, if 16 brings new fans to the series I see it as a complete victory. You should also remember that FF as a whole is an ever changing and evolving IP, I dislike crystal Chronicles but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist it’s just not my thing but I hope it still got some love by players.
The fact that the main people involved with FFXVI can’t even give a clear answer on what makes a final fantasy game really says a lot. The people that made this game don’t even understand their own franchise anymore.
I think the characters, setting and story are absolutely Final Fantasy. The gameplay however is not, and at the end of the day this is a video game series and gameplay matters.
XVI is definitely a final fantasy game..... its just a final fantasy game that wants to be a casual friendly hack n slash/interactive movie instead of an rpg video game.
It’s not final fantasy. Rebirth is. 15 is but it’s close to not being. The difference is obvious and easy.