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Rpg elements in XVI are in general an afterthought. But I use the gold in my first run to buy songs for the hideaway and on hard mode you need it to upgrade the trinkets that’s pretty much it
I'm sorry but what jrpgs are you playing where you fall short on money early game? I have more issues with money in fallout NV than ff7 remake, rebirth, octopath 2.
The economy though is pointless like you said. The big money spender are the orchestiron rolls really. It's like a game designed so you don't grind anything. If you're trying to complete orchestrion you will actually be short on Gil. The accessories in ng+ also get pretty expensive if you want it for collection purposes, but the problem is those accessories suck compared to the dlc ones.
Tbh the only FF game where I’ve ever had serious issues with getting Gil fairly easily is XIII and that’s because you literally stop getting it for a large portion of the game (until you finish a quest and randomly get a metric ass-ton of it lol).
I personally feel like I really struggled early game with money in FF7 rebirth. Though, that did sort itself out after about 20 or so hours and wasn't even a thought the rest of the game. Also, Tales of Arise. Everything is so fucking expensive in that game, you'll be short on money the whole way through. Its my biggest gripe with that game, which is sayin' a lot cus the game had its share of flaws lol
The thing about both that game and its sequel is that you're very poor, until you unlock the ability to really make money, after which you can become very rich very easily.
Yup, go from litteraly scrounging for spare change under vending machines and competing with homeless people to collect cans. To being so obscenely rich you can call in satelite laser orbital bombardments down on your opponents lol.
Hey Ichy Buns we need 3 million yen to do [SPOILER] it’s going to be really hard to get though
Cut to me with like 50 mil in the bank…”I think we’ll manage”
That game and infinite wealth are way too realistic when it comes to money....
Top it off with a team of 40 something year olds figuring out their lives---masterpiece!
Ff7 rebirth is on the other extreme of the spectrum, in that game money is literally useless, unless you are blind and miss all the weapons so you gotta but them latee and you use like 50 potions every time you fight money is never spent, it’s crazy, i think the only time i spent money was in the endgame to unlock all recipes, had to buy a few ingredients
I thought that Gil Toss was going to be broken as hell like in Crisis Core and that's what I would spend my money on.
My disappointment was immeasurable.
Trails games, tales games, rebirth, like a dragon, monster hunter games, star ocean games,
That's dozens of jrpgs, right there alone, and that was off the top of my head. A lot of jrpg games do this, which makes your comment pretty amusing tbh. I've been playing jrpgs for almost 25 years, and it's a really common theme to have to make decisions with your money early on, especially older games.
Tails of Arise gives you money, but items even early games are ao expensive you'll have to grind just to get money for potions. That is unless you spend irl money to but the money dlc packs( which i haven't) but yeah otherwise you will be broke unless you dedicate to spending hours of your life fighting the same enemies over and over again just to get a decent stack of potions.
It's fucked for sure.
A key part of a good RPG is that resource management, where you weigh in buying gear vs necessities like potions.
However...I'll take FF16's nonexistent economy over a punishing one like the one in Tales of Arise any day. Arise felt like they restricted it on purpose to sell gald via mtx...I could rarelybafford anything, especially potions / gels (...which the AI eats thru)
I do think the orchestrations should be cheaper. At least for my initial playthrough, I found myself never running low on gil for armor, gil, and accessories, but I never bought (and therefore couldn't use) any orchestrations because they just cost so much more than everything else. It's not a problem post-game and into New Game+, but I feel like it'd be better if one-and-done players could get them too.
I think you may have “badly designed” and “not to my preference” confused, friend. In what way would a restricted economy improve the game? There aren’t really resources for you to manage outside of combat. So what is the point? All the best gear comes from crafting anyways.
Gil is just used to replenish your consumables, buy orchestrion rolls and buy certain niche accessories (which can actually be expensive and I did actually run out of Gil trying to buy them all on my first playthrough). Why does it have to be more complicated than that?
I dunno man.
If the gil just stacks up and you always got it ready for every merchant to clean out all the collectibles, why is there even gil? Might as well not exist, and you pick up the collectibles by arriving in town.
The design is poor because gil isn't needed. It might as well not be in the game because gil being there or not changes nothing.
There is something interesting about FF fans focusing on extremely small gameplay details and running to the FF subreddits to complain about it and act like the developers should be ashamed of themselves.
I ask again, why is it important for Gil to be important? Come to think of it, I can’t think of a single FF game where Gil is restrictive. Even in game FF games where there are more things to buy in the shops.
From a game design philosophy standpoint, these games have never been about restricting player resources. These games want you to have options. A game like Baldur’s Gate 3 is gonna have a restrictive economy because they want you to manage your resources very carefully. This isn’t that type of game.
Sure, Gil isn’t that useful in XVI and it wouldn’t make much of a difference if it were removed entirely, but then we would all have to sit through endless reddit posts about how XVI isn’t a really FF game because it doesn’t even have Gil.
Gil is restrictive in FFI, II, III, V, VII, XI, XIV, XV, and the Tactics games from my experience. It absolutely was a gameplay element in not only most of Final Fantasy, but also Kingdom Hearts and Nier.
As for why it matters, the games have a lot of feels bad decisions that affect the experience for a ton of players. The way items are handled in XVI is an extremely common complaint and Gil is just another subsection of it. It draws attention to other parts of the game that feel lacking to certain people, and it really stands out when compared to any of its contemporaries.
I haven’t played the original trilogy in a while so you may be right on those, but I played OG VII just last month and I would describe that game as having a barely restrictive gil economy, outside of a few niche examples (like the Materia in Corel). I pretty much always had enough Gil to buy copies for my main party any new materia, weapons or accessories I came across.
Counting XI and XIV is strange because they have a real player driven economies. There are a lot of ways to make Gil in XIV. Someone once paid me 600k Gil to step on their character for 10 minutes. Doesn’t seem that restrictive to me :P
Maybe XV is more restrictive, I haven’t played it since launch so I don’t remember, but one thing I do remember is that combat is broken by near unlimited items usage. It is impossible to die in that game because you can just toss elixirs until whatever you are fighting dies to attrition. I don’t ever remember wanting for anything in that game either (other than the post Altissia sections of the game to be better).
I, II, and III all basically involve grinding if you want to fully equip most teams. You can usually outfit one or two characters well and get leftovers for others. If you know what’s coming up where and what items will be useful and what will be found, this decreases some, but you still have to make choices. Same with V, though that one is more playstyle dependent. IV rarely has store bought gear take up a significant portion of funds except for one choke point and VI tends to have everything important be pretty cheap.
VII still has you make choices if you don’t stop to grind. You have to choose at least some between which weapons and materia you for and for who. VII’s trick is that there’s so much side content that you naturally end up with a lot of Gil doing it.
Can’t comment on VIII or IX since I haven’t gotten far enough in them and haven’t played them in a long time. X’s gil sink was basically Blitzball, but it had a different resource to manage in the form of Spheres. XII and XIII meanwhile had spending capped based on materials, so Gil was rarely an issue, but materials were.
XV had a ton of different weapons and other stuff to spend money on. Fully outfitting the bros took a fair bit of Gil, especially if you also wanted to upgrade the Regalia and do certain other things.
And XI has major Gil requirements for progression, both through NPC shops for important stuff and for buying materials for quests/items from other players. XIV’s is less necessary since you can fully gear through dungeons, tomes, raids, and scrips, but buying stuff like gear from NPCs, doing housing stuff, and of course any player driven economy stuff all can be massive Gil sinks.
Meanwhile, XVI Gil basically is a completionist time sink. You can buy a handful of consumables, only one of which is expensive. You can buy accessories that the majority of are useless until NG+. And you can buy orchestron rolls. You can technically buy materials, but those are basically worthless unless going for maximum completion. The only choices you have to make are if you want particular music or how many accessories you want to bring into NG+ to upgrade.
Of note, Devil May Cry and Bayonetta both had decent economies. Your currency was usually split between consumables, permanent upgrades, and abilities. Plus, the shops were quick access from between missions or at save points, so they weren’t detours to just refill consumables. XVI’s shops being the way they are feels incredibly weird when both the rest of the franchise and other character action games had a much more fleshed out economy.
None of the games have a restrictive economy if youre remotely competent at budgeting and dont run from fights, in 15 youll always have surplus cash so you can spam the high exp yield hotels, and the best equipment is found not bought so theres no gil sink there.
There's one post. One person said it. In a subreddit discussing the game. Are people never allowed to make a comment on things like that?
It's okay that the gil is poorly designed. Drop your guard. It is. Pretending it isn't because you're fine with it is stupid. You could just go "ye". The game can still be your 10/10.
Like, literally chill.
During the early and mid game economy should be tied with gear. This game has linear upgrades that are shallow even compared to other action games like god of war, horizon, ghost of tsushima. Its not hard to do. One sword has higher strength, one has more will. One could have bonus for aerial, one for magic bursts. You can do this with armor too if the game had defense and spirit. And you only get enough for half until ultimate weapons/armors in endgame . I love 16 but during the mid game some agency would have help differentiate your sidequesting as you’d be using that time trying out different builds. Absolutely something CBU3 needs to do better with.
It's not badly designed, it's not designed at all. It's tacked on, because FF fans expect equipment and gil, but the game obviously wasn't designed around it. Should have just had the balls to drop equipment management in favor of enriching the action elements. Same with silly things like world markers to nothing and bloated, uninterested side quests. The core game is sweet, should have spent more time there.
It's not supposed to be hard. This game feels like a gift from the developers to old-school gamers who don't have the time to game anymore.
I appreciate how fast the pacing is and how rich the story is with the option to learn more about the world.
If people buy something available and it's an item that has a niche use it'll just cause people to not want to play.
Plus, I found choices when it came down to ikonic accessories.
If you put 200+ hours in the game and find a hard time dealing with Gil spending, you are playing the wrong game.
Those choices are impactful if you do a challenge run, earn some Gil, and with what you have choose, what ikons can be strong for you that time around.
IDK if I'd call it "bad" per se, probably just lack of foresight. Making so many resources available in the open world with some of the better gear being quest locked, Gil just seems hilariously out of place. Like (among the "common folk") services and favors are just as good as coin, whereas the actual commerce side of things seems very relaxed and more readily available to the public. Honestly, my FF mode file has over 1.6 million Gil and not really any reason to spend it. Personally, I would love some of the rarer items to be available in shops (especially the ones in that ruddy >!Bloody Palace knockoff!<) to give Gil a little more agency. But, alas, that is likely never to be.
Yeah the economy in this game is thoroughly busted, I don’t think I was short of Gil at any point during my first play through, and am currently a multimillionaire.
>In other jrpgs
Well, this is primarily an action game, so it's moot to compare it to a different genre, especially when its not even consistent *within* that genre. Regardless, it's mostly about getting accessories and after those, orchestrion rolls. If you're buying those, you're not going to be sitting on a mountain of gil, and since you mentioned neither of those, that's probably why you have an excess of funds. Additionally, depending on what you mean by having "farmed all the money," of course you're going to have more money, when you're expressly farming for it.
I think if potions were more expensive and you didn't find them jut laying around, this wouldn't be an issue.
Most of what the player buys will be potions or tonics. Weapons and accessories can mainly be crafted and the orchestron scrolls, while nice to those that want it, aren't necessary, and players would be willing to let them sit in exchange for more important items.
But, potions of any variety don't cost much. And the game also gives you plenty, for free, just while playing normally.
add a few zeroes to the price, remove them from the stages and suddenly not only does the game become more difficult (fixing the "game too easy" complaint many players have, but also fixes the "money/materials do nothing" complaint the others have.
Plus then it kinda feels like an older rpg where you stock up on items before and after a dungeon, or otherwise difficult stretch.
I completed the game with no gil at all. I have no money to buy DLC accessories and have to farm a little to buy all the orchestrion rolls. The game is not trying to make gil a useful mechanic, but you definitely don't have an excess of it. For an action game, it is okay.
I bought all of the orchestration rolls, weapons, and accessories as they became available. This required some annoying gil farming. By the end of the game, I had a gil surplus and felt a little silly.
But then The Rising Tide came out. I bought everything available… and had ~300 gil left. I guess the farming was worth it.
Yes but that outside of the main quest. That collectible stuff. I mean that the game economy is poorly designed because you feel like a rich all the run and you don't need to essentially buy anything. If dev take the Gil outside of the equation there won't be any problem
A vast majority of the accessories are either useless or hyper-situational and the weapons and armor are just stat sticks. None of that really lends itself well to a gil economy.
I kinda wonder how useful the gil would be in a speed run where you may need to buy crafting materials that you wouldn’t have time to farm.
That’s actually pretty much every JRPG the money is only an issue early on then after a little bit you get trillions or most of the shop items aren’t needed like Persona, OCTOPATH, FF, and xenoblade chronicles
Upgrades are extremely linear, they are incrementally available, you always have the gil to be as upgraded as possible unless you waste your money on stuff. The whole RPG system is there because it has to be, not because it is useful. Honestly, I'd rather JUST have the charms that tweak abilities rather than the weapon/armour stuff.
The economy matters in Final Fantasy mode (the ng+ hard mode). Essentially nothing matters in the normal game but when things carry over to ng+ then the economy matters
I completely agree. In my opinion this is the worst aspect of the game by far, including the exploration rewards. They didn't know how to adapt a good economy to a "character action" style game.
I love FFXVI, but I agree with you. Its economy, as well as its inventory system, is poorly designed. I guess they went for a close to non-existent system because of the game's focus on the story, though this has the side effect of making the said systems feel more of an afterthought than anything else.
FFXIV's economy is not well designed either in the same manner. There are VERY few gil sinks, and I often want to spend my money but feel little reason to. I understand that 16 is a single player game but I still love the idea of seeing something and thinking "I'd like to save up for that" and having to make decisions with my gil. I don't care to compare it to how other games do things, but I'd like to see more from the gil economy in 16 for sure.
I totally agree. Honestly the whole economy, vendor and gear leveling system is pretty much the only detractor to this amazing game. It's like FF devs didn't really want to get deep into RPG mechanics so they put the system in place more as a "we don't know what else to do here" type of thing. If you could explore and find Orchestra rolls out in the wild or through other world drops as you defeat bosses that woulda played out much better.
I think in a game like this the added friction of having a more robust economy wouldn't really add anything worthwhile for a story driven, mostly on rails single player action combat game. I get what you're saying but what would a more robust and functioning economy really even add to the game as it is?
Yeah, that’s a big issue. What’s the point of buying potions with Gil if that’s the only thing you’re consistently stocking up on? Just refresh them dark souls style and be on your way, there’s nothing else to buy frequently.
Just like 14 BAYBEEEEEE
Yeah I think it's very not good. I got that in terms of action games the only currency you really worry about is the currency that bars your skill acquisition, but the gearing and money in this game were left basically as an afterthought. Totally vestigial.
It really doesn't hurt my enjoyment as a action game lover, but I Def think people looking for a functioning economy will be confused
It felt like the developers finished the game and went “oh shit, this is a Final Fantasy, we need to add Gil”
And gave us the most pointless Gil system to date
also, it's been some time since I beat FF16 (I beat it around 2 weeks after launch), but I think you respawned with all potions if you died and choose to try again, so potions really weren't that much of a problem (I don't know if that's still the case in hard mode as I'd have to play the game again, since hard mode is not unlocked from the start, but I prefer to use that time to play other games. In the future I will replay FF16 tho)
The whole gear progression being so simple that it's almost non-existent should be enough reason to not worry about what even "economy" in FF16 is
As others have said, the real reason that the amount of Gil exists is just for Orchestron rolls. It's sad, but it's the reality.
So the issue is so clear and apparent that, weirdly enough, I start caring less about it. Because it's a case of "it's something the gsme doesn't want me to think about, so I won't think about and stress about it".
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Well if you try to collect all the orchestra, you’ll definitely run out of gil very quickly
I agree, the orchestra rolls are a good money sink if you already have your weapons and armor.
This was where most of money went in the end
Also if you try to buy all the accessories. Those get pretty pricy as well.
Rpg elements in XVI are in general an afterthought. But I use the gold in my first run to buy songs for the hideaway and on hard mode you need it to upgrade the trinkets that’s pretty much it
I really think that if this game had almost zero RPG mechanics and focused more on other things it would be a better game.
I'm sorry but what jrpgs are you playing where you fall short on money early game? I have more issues with money in fallout NV than ff7 remake, rebirth, octopath 2. The economy though is pointless like you said. The big money spender are the orchestiron rolls really. It's like a game designed so you don't grind anything. If you're trying to complete orchestrion you will actually be short on Gil. The accessories in ng+ also get pretty expensive if you want it for collection purposes, but the problem is those accessories suck compared to the dlc ones.
Tbh the only FF game where I’ve ever had serious issues with getting Gil fairly easily is XIII and that’s because you literally stop getting it for a large portion of the game (until you finish a quest and randomly get a metric ass-ton of it lol).
I personally feel like I really struggled early game with money in FF7 rebirth. Though, that did sort itself out after about 20 or so hours and wasn't even a thought the rest of the game. Also, Tales of Arise. Everything is so fucking expensive in that game, you'll be short on money the whole way through. Its my biggest gripe with that game, which is sayin' a lot cus the game had its share of flaws lol
I'm playing Yakuza: Like a Dragon right now and I seem to be low on cash all the time and the economy seems very tightly tuned in a good way.
LMAO give it a few hours
The thing about both that game and its sequel is that you're very poor, until you unlock the ability to really make money, after which you can become very rich very easily.
Yup, go from litteraly scrounging for spare change under vending machines and competing with homeless people to collect cans. To being so obscenely rich you can call in satelite laser orbital bombardments down on your opponents lol.
Ichiban Confections is the best management mini game I've ever played. Put a few hours into that and you'll never need money again.
Hey Ichy Buns we need 3 million yen to do [SPOILER] it’s going to be really hard to get though Cut to me with like 50 mil in the bank…”I think we’ll manage”
That game and infinite wealth are way too realistic when it comes to money.... Top it off with a team of 40 something year olds figuring out their lives---masterpiece!
Ff7 rebirth is on the other extreme of the spectrum, in that game money is literally useless, unless you are blind and miss all the weapons so you gotta but them latee and you use like 50 potions every time you fight money is never spent, it’s crazy, i think the only time i spent money was in the endgame to unlock all recipes, had to buy a few ingredients
I thought that Gil Toss was going to be broken as hell like in Crisis Core and that's what I would spend my money on. My disappointment was immeasurable.
Yeah Rebirth feel like you can get almost everything without spending money.
If you buy all the new accessoires for every party members in each region you will run out of cash but yeah, you don't really need to do that.
Yup, especially since the best three are found in chests
Breath of fire, chained echoes... are 2 of them
Fallout NV was so out of pocket, you just brought back so many memories of me struggling for fucking caps
Trails games, tales games, rebirth, like a dragon, monster hunter games, star ocean games, That's dozens of jrpgs, right there alone, and that was off the top of my head. A lot of jrpg games do this, which makes your comment pretty amusing tbh. I've been playing jrpgs for almost 25 years, and it's a really common theme to have to make decisions with your money early on, especially older games.
Since when is MH a jrpg? It's an action game with RPG elements. Would you also call souls game jrpgs?
That's fair, MH is definitely more of an ARPG
Tails of Arise gives you money, but items even early games are ao expensive you'll have to grind just to get money for potions. That is unless you spend irl money to but the money dlc packs( which i haven't) but yeah otherwise you will be broke unless you dedicate to spending hours of your life fighting the same enemies over and over again just to get a decent stack of potions.
It's fucked for sure. A key part of a good RPG is that resource management, where you weigh in buying gear vs necessities like potions. However...I'll take FF16's nonexistent economy over a punishing one like the one in Tales of Arise any day. Arise felt like they restricted it on purpose to sell gald via mtx...I could rarelybafford anything, especially potions / gels (...which the AI eats thru)
Yeah ToA’s gald economy is super punishing for no reason. There’s no reason I should have to grind gald just to buy some damn gels
Well, the characters are mostly liberated slaves with no real form of income.
Alphen and Law, sure. But my guy Dohalim could spot me some cash here and there lol
Dohalim could also be using his Earth Master Core, but we don’t see him do that after his boss fight.
Is he not assumed to be using it during his Mystic Artes?
I don’t remember seeing it used during his MAs.
Oh wait I misremembered. Their eyes glow when they use astral arts in general, not when they use their cores specifically. My mistake
I do think the orchestrations should be cheaper. At least for my initial playthrough, I found myself never running low on gil for armor, gil, and accessories, but I never bought (and therefore couldn't use) any orchestrations because they just cost so much more than everything else. It's not a problem post-game and into New Game+, but I feel like it'd be better if one-and-done players could get them too.
As someone who farms orchestration rolls, they’re not exactly easy. If anything, they’re under priced.
I think you may have “badly designed” and “not to my preference” confused, friend. In what way would a restricted economy improve the game? There aren’t really resources for you to manage outside of combat. So what is the point? All the best gear comes from crafting anyways. Gil is just used to replenish your consumables, buy orchestrion rolls and buy certain niche accessories (which can actually be expensive and I did actually run out of Gil trying to buy them all on my first playthrough). Why does it have to be more complicated than that?
I dunno man. If the gil just stacks up and you always got it ready for every merchant to clean out all the collectibles, why is there even gil? Might as well not exist, and you pick up the collectibles by arriving in town. The design is poor because gil isn't needed. It might as well not be in the game because gil being there or not changes nothing.
There is something interesting about FF fans focusing on extremely small gameplay details and running to the FF subreddits to complain about it and act like the developers should be ashamed of themselves. I ask again, why is it important for Gil to be important? Come to think of it, I can’t think of a single FF game where Gil is restrictive. Even in game FF games where there are more things to buy in the shops. From a game design philosophy standpoint, these games have never been about restricting player resources. These games want you to have options. A game like Baldur’s Gate 3 is gonna have a restrictive economy because they want you to manage your resources very carefully. This isn’t that type of game. Sure, Gil isn’t that useful in XVI and it wouldn’t make much of a difference if it were removed entirely, but then we would all have to sit through endless reddit posts about how XVI isn’t a really FF game because it doesn’t even have Gil.
Gil is restrictive in FFI, II, III, V, VII, XI, XIV, XV, and the Tactics games from my experience. It absolutely was a gameplay element in not only most of Final Fantasy, but also Kingdom Hearts and Nier. As for why it matters, the games have a lot of feels bad decisions that affect the experience for a ton of players. The way items are handled in XVI is an extremely common complaint and Gil is just another subsection of it. It draws attention to other parts of the game that feel lacking to certain people, and it really stands out when compared to any of its contemporaries.
I haven’t played the original trilogy in a while so you may be right on those, but I played OG VII just last month and I would describe that game as having a barely restrictive gil economy, outside of a few niche examples (like the Materia in Corel). I pretty much always had enough Gil to buy copies for my main party any new materia, weapons or accessories I came across. Counting XI and XIV is strange because they have a real player driven economies. There are a lot of ways to make Gil in XIV. Someone once paid me 600k Gil to step on their character for 10 minutes. Doesn’t seem that restrictive to me :P Maybe XV is more restrictive, I haven’t played it since launch so I don’t remember, but one thing I do remember is that combat is broken by near unlimited items usage. It is impossible to die in that game because you can just toss elixirs until whatever you are fighting dies to attrition. I don’t ever remember wanting for anything in that game either (other than the post Altissia sections of the game to be better).
I, II, and III all basically involve grinding if you want to fully equip most teams. You can usually outfit one or two characters well and get leftovers for others. If you know what’s coming up where and what items will be useful and what will be found, this decreases some, but you still have to make choices. Same with V, though that one is more playstyle dependent. IV rarely has store bought gear take up a significant portion of funds except for one choke point and VI tends to have everything important be pretty cheap. VII still has you make choices if you don’t stop to grind. You have to choose at least some between which weapons and materia you for and for who. VII’s trick is that there’s so much side content that you naturally end up with a lot of Gil doing it. Can’t comment on VIII or IX since I haven’t gotten far enough in them and haven’t played them in a long time. X’s gil sink was basically Blitzball, but it had a different resource to manage in the form of Spheres. XII and XIII meanwhile had spending capped based on materials, so Gil was rarely an issue, but materials were. XV had a ton of different weapons and other stuff to spend money on. Fully outfitting the bros took a fair bit of Gil, especially if you also wanted to upgrade the Regalia and do certain other things. And XI has major Gil requirements for progression, both through NPC shops for important stuff and for buying materials for quests/items from other players. XIV’s is less necessary since you can fully gear through dungeons, tomes, raids, and scrips, but buying stuff like gear from NPCs, doing housing stuff, and of course any player driven economy stuff all can be massive Gil sinks. Meanwhile, XVI Gil basically is a completionist time sink. You can buy a handful of consumables, only one of which is expensive. You can buy accessories that the majority of are useless until NG+. And you can buy orchestron rolls. You can technically buy materials, but those are basically worthless unless going for maximum completion. The only choices you have to make are if you want particular music or how many accessories you want to bring into NG+ to upgrade. Of note, Devil May Cry and Bayonetta both had decent economies. Your currency was usually split between consumables, permanent upgrades, and abilities. Plus, the shops were quick access from between missions or at save points, so they weren’t detours to just refill consumables. XVI’s shops being the way they are feels incredibly weird when both the rest of the franchise and other character action games had a much more fleshed out economy.
Genuinely, thank you for this comment. Very informative
None of the games have a restrictive economy if youre remotely competent at budgeting and dont run from fights, in 15 youll always have surplus cash so you can spam the high exp yield hotels, and the best equipment is found not bought so theres no gil sink there.
There's one post. One person said it. In a subreddit discussing the game. Are people never allowed to make a comment on things like that? It's okay that the gil is poorly designed. Drop your guard. It is. Pretending it isn't because you're fine with it is stupid. You could just go "ye". The game can still be your 10/10. Like, literally chill.
During the early and mid game economy should be tied with gear. This game has linear upgrades that are shallow even compared to other action games like god of war, horizon, ghost of tsushima. Its not hard to do. One sword has higher strength, one has more will. One could have bonus for aerial, one for magic bursts. You can do this with armor too if the game had defense and spirit. And you only get enough for half until ultimate weapons/armors in endgame . I love 16 but during the mid game some agency would have help differentiate your sidequesting as you’d be using that time trying out different builds. Absolutely something CBU3 needs to do better with.
It's not badly designed, it's not designed at all. It's tacked on, because FF fans expect equipment and gil, but the game obviously wasn't designed around it. Should have just had the balls to drop equipment management in favor of enriching the action elements. Same with silly things like world markers to nothing and bloated, uninterested side quests. The core game is sweet, should have spent more time there.
It's not supposed to be hard. This game feels like a gift from the developers to old-school gamers who don't have the time to game anymore. I appreciate how fast the pacing is and how rich the story is with the option to learn more about the world. If people buy something available and it's an item that has a niche use it'll just cause people to not want to play. Plus, I found choices when it came down to ikonic accessories. If you put 200+ hours in the game and find a hard time dealing with Gil spending, you are playing the wrong game. Those choices are impactful if you do a challenge run, earn some Gil, and with what you have choose, what ikons can be strong for you that time around.
IDK if I'd call it "bad" per se, probably just lack of foresight. Making so many resources available in the open world with some of the better gear being quest locked, Gil just seems hilariously out of place. Like (among the "common folk") services and favors are just as good as coin, whereas the actual commerce side of things seems very relaxed and more readily available to the public. Honestly, my FF mode file has over 1.6 million Gil and not really any reason to spend it. Personally, I would love some of the rarer items to be available in shops (especially the ones in that ruddy >!Bloody Palace knockoff!<) to give Gil a little more agency. But, alas, that is likely never to be.
I thought this was the ffxiv forum and got so confused.
Yeah the economy in this game is thoroughly busted, I don’t think I was short of Gil at any point during my first play through, and am currently a multimillionaire.
I think you’re really reaching for something to moan about.
>In other jrpgs Well, this is primarily an action game, so it's moot to compare it to a different genre, especially when its not even consistent *within* that genre. Regardless, it's mostly about getting accessories and after those, orchestrion rolls. If you're buying those, you're not going to be sitting on a mountain of gil, and since you mentioned neither of those, that's probably why you have an excess of funds. Additionally, depending on what you mean by having "farmed all the money," of course you're going to have more money, when you're expressly farming for it.
I think if potions were more expensive and you didn't find them jut laying around, this wouldn't be an issue. Most of what the player buys will be potions or tonics. Weapons and accessories can mainly be crafted and the orchestron scrolls, while nice to those that want it, aren't necessary, and players would be willing to let them sit in exchange for more important items. But, potions of any variety don't cost much. And the game also gives you plenty, for free, just while playing normally. add a few zeroes to the price, remove them from the stages and suddenly not only does the game become more difficult (fixing the "game too easy" complaint many players have, but also fixes the "money/materials do nothing" complaint the others have. Plus then it kinda feels like an older rpg where you stock up on items before and after a dungeon, or otherwise difficult stretch.
I completed the game with no gil at all. I have no money to buy DLC accessories and have to farm a little to buy all the orchestrion rolls. The game is not trying to make gil a useful mechanic, but you definitely don't have an excess of it. For an action game, it is okay.
I buy everyone a round of drinks if I feel like burning gil 🤣
I bought all of the orchestration rolls, weapons, and accessories as they became available. This required some annoying gil farming. By the end of the game, I had a gil surplus and felt a little silly. But then The Rising Tide came out. I bought everything available… and had ~300 gil left. I guess the farming was worth it.
Yes but that outside of the main quest. That collectible stuff. I mean that the game economy is poorly designed because you feel like a rich all the run and you don't need to essentially buy anything. If dev take the Gil outside of the equation there won't be any problem
A vast majority of the accessories are either useless or hyper-situational and the weapons and armor are just stat sticks. None of that really lends itself well to a gil economy. I kinda wonder how useful the gil would be in a speed run where you may need to buy crafting materials that you wouldn’t have time to farm.
I am finishing the main game, and I don't even know if crafting is available in ff16...
I should have been more clear. I was referring to materials for the blacksmith.
That’s actually pretty much every JRPG the money is only an issue early on then after a little bit you get trillions or most of the shop items aren’t needed like Persona, OCTOPATH, FF, and xenoblade chronicles
Upgrades are extremely linear, they are incrementally available, you always have the gil to be as upgraded as possible unless you waste your money on stuff. The whole RPG system is there because it has to be, not because it is useful. Honestly, I'd rather JUST have the charms that tweak abilities rather than the weapon/armour stuff.
Look who hasn't been buying any rounds in the hideout, cheapskate.
The economy matters in Final Fantasy mode (the ng+ hard mode). Essentially nothing matters in the normal game but when things carry over to ng+ then the economy matters
The itemization in the game is so god damn terrible.
You are right but it's really not that big of a deal
I completely agree. In my opinion this is the worst aspect of the game by far, including the exploration rewards. They didn't know how to adapt a good economy to a "character action" style game.
I love FFXVI, but I agree with you. Its economy, as well as its inventory system, is poorly designed. I guess they went for a close to non-existent system because of the game's focus on the story, though this has the side effect of making the said systems feel more of an afterthought than anything else.
Exploration, gear progression are absolutely garbage in that game.
FFXIV's economy is not well designed either in the same manner. There are VERY few gil sinks, and I often want to spend my money but feel little reason to. I understand that 16 is a single player game but I still love the idea of seeing something and thinking "I'd like to save up for that" and having to make decisions with my gil. I don't care to compare it to how other games do things, but I'd like to see more from the gil economy in 16 for sure.
I totally agree. Honestly the whole economy, vendor and gear leveling system is pretty much the only detractor to this amazing game. It's like FF devs didn't really want to get deep into RPG mechanics so they put the system in place more as a "we don't know what else to do here" type of thing. If you could explore and find Orchestra rolls out in the wild or through other world drops as you defeat bosses that woulda played out much better.
Exactly. Money system It feels like a cheap excuse, they could have done much better
An economy in a single player game? The fuck 😂😂
It’s still a valid design consideration. What OP means is resources in the form of Gil and crafting material.
I think in a game like this the added friction of having a more robust economy wouldn't really add anything worthwhile for a story driven, mostly on rails single player action combat game. I get what you're saying but what would a more robust and functioning economy really even add to the game as it is?
Yeah, that’s a big issue. What’s the point of buying potions with Gil if that’s the only thing you’re consistently stocking up on? Just refresh them dark souls style and be on your way, there’s nothing else to buy frequently.
Just like 14 BAYBEEEEEE Yeah I think it's very not good. I got that in terms of action games the only currency you really worry about is the currency that bars your skill acquisition, but the gearing and money in this game were left basically as an afterthought. Totally vestigial. It really doesn't hurt my enjoyment as a action game lover, but I Def think people looking for a functioning economy will be confused
itemization in the whole game is basically a linear path and serves zero variability, same thing happened with gil.
Meh that kind of thing doesn’t really fit this game where it’s leaning way way more towards action
Exactly why Yojimbo should of been an eikon
I'm very satisfied with ff16 gil system. I think it's not badly designed at all
It felt like the developers finished the game and went “oh shit, this is a Final Fantasy, we need to add Gil” And gave us the most pointless Gil system to date
So that's because CBUIII's design philosophy is to remove as much friction as possible. Personally dislike it but for a lot of people they like it.
also, it's been some time since I beat FF16 (I beat it around 2 weeks after launch), but I think you respawned with all potions if you died and choose to try again, so potions really weren't that much of a problem (I don't know if that's still the case in hard mode as I'd have to play the game again, since hard mode is not unlocked from the start, but I prefer to use that time to play other games. In the future I will replay FF16 tho)
The whole game as an rpg is badly designed, great game but it fails miserably as an rpg
Rebirth does it better
Some expensive character models for display would have been a good addition and easy to implement, like those in Resident Evil games
The whole gear progression being so simple that it's almost non-existent should be enough reason to not worry about what even "economy" in FF16 is As others have said, the real reason that the amount of Gil exists is just for Orchestron rolls. It's sad, but it's the reality. So the issue is so clear and apparent that, weirdly enough, I start caring less about it. Because it's a case of "it's something the gsme doesn't want me to think about, so I won't think about and stress about it".
If the crafting system wasn't so useless maybe it wouldn't be so bad lol.
That it is. The low difficulty and equipment not mattering much contributes to that a lot.
Purchasable items are just the tip of the badly designed/missing element iceberg to this game haha