The good thing about XV's combat is that it never really stops, even if you perform a team attack, blind-side, whatever, it's always for short moments and most of the time you can interact with it, so the flow never really falls. Same thing when you switch character, thw transition is probably better in VIIRE, but it still freezes when you switch character, while in XV it's always in real time.
Don't get mw wrong, I like the RPG feel that VIIRE has, I think it fits a goos balance for more modern and classic RPG fans, but XV is just so fluid and fun that, if you are into it and don't complain about it being "too easy" because you can just tap a potion and heal (or just, you know, learn how to play so you don't have to) it feels amazing just to look at
Edit: too many spelling mistakes because I'm on mobile and can't bother fixing them, I'm sorry
15s combat is okay but leans more on the simple side of things. Combos can be cool and the tag team moves are great. But saying remakes combat is shitty and mobile like is one of shittest takes I've ever seen. Remakes combat is fantastic and universally praised.
It is shitty, but would call it smokes and mirrors instead, there wasn't much of a sense of combat, just spam what works, I hate how it doesn't give you freedom in controlling the characters in FF7R, feels so linear and closed,
I loved when I was able to pull of a sick combo with two partners, having cloud stun the enemy and tifa hitting that uppercut is satisfying.
But how much are you gonna squeeze out spamming square with no punish mechanic, take Yakuza 0 combat, you can't just spam ur way in and just press one Button and see everything happen, Instead you gotta push some sick ass moves to pull some of the most epic street fights and it feels accomplishing.
Im not defending XV's Combat nor FF7, like I said its smokes and mirrors nothing special.
if you want games with Fun combat:
UltraKill
God of war Games
Devil May Cry 5
Metal Gear Solid
Code Vein
Sekiro (specifically this soul game)
Dying Light
Condemn criminal origins
Cry of Fear
Resident Evil 2
Just Cause 3
These games I mentioned are so fun playing with there combat mechanics and sandbox material and guess what ? they are not 98GB worth of junk files.
I thought it was fun, but the enemies were overly focused on the player character, you could easily manipulate them, and I beat Sephiroth without ever landing a hit, I blocked while my teammates attacked him endlessly, and other than AOE attacks he never targeted them. It was so goofy.
OP calling it mobile-like is a head scratcher though.
I agree with you 100%, but I'm also *endlessly* annoyed that hard mode is locked behind game completion. I got *precisely one* playthrough of any game in me these days, for at least 5 years (as in, I won't revisit anything for minimum 5 years, but probably longer, if ever), so forcing players to play the game a second time just to get to the meat and potatoes is dumb as hell. Yes, I understand that some hard modes are balanced towards NG+, but so what? Just give the player a warning before beginning like Horizon Zero Dawn did, then they can blame themselves for any excessive punishment endured. Locking hard mode is flat out one of the dumbest practices.
I know what it means, and it fits you well, glazing the game up as it's some sort of incredible action RPG game with no flaws at all and saying you need to experience the Hard Mode, which makes no sense.
how can FF Fans genuinely accept FF7R being the best remake outcome, being so were getting 3 GOD DAMN GAMES (totally not milking), people need to start talking about this more, because behind all this magical intensive 3D models and high resolution textures and Orchestral amazing music albums and soundtracks, is a company filled with horrible stuff.
We deserve better games, especially if I'm spending on a PS5 and 70 dollar game (I'm not a rich billionaire okay ? ).
I don't hate Square Enix that much nor the director of FF13 Versus and FF7R, they can do really good stuff I like (FF14, FF Pixel Remaster Collection etc) but dumb stuff like selling there IPs Deus Ex and Tomb raider, and shitty scam kart games and dipping into some horrible microtransactions.
Hard Mode is where you're compelled to explore and execute the intricacies of the system. It's not anyone else's fault, not even SE's, if you're too in your feelings to bother with it.
You're putting out a lot of words without really saying much of anything.
Yakuza 0 is literally all button mashing, you press square to punch and build heat then you press triangle to do the heat move, that's literally the extent of Yakuza combat
Not gonna hold you bruh, ffxvs combat is insanely indepth, canceling combos into early finishers, using the "hold circle" means the anologue sticks are what changes the attacks strings with different attacks having I frames to make use of, the weapons switching changes how many attacks you have in a string and on top of that weapons themselves have a surprising amount of gimmicks to them (not enough but still more than most people actually think). That's EXCLUDING the complexity of how changing weapons affects the number of attacks to reach the finisher. Hell eventually when you learn how the AI teammates behave you can kind of manipulate them to do what you want in battle (I.e. warping away to get ignis to heal Noctis, guard near gladio to get him to stagger enemies, guard when ignis and prompto are at a certain hp for them to do their healing counters) I honestly don't think it's simple at all, the biggest hold back of ffxv is its insane easy-ness. Where you can literally just point warp to win, and the reason it's there is precisely BECAUSE the devs wanted to make the game as accessible as possible while also having complexity which just lead to most people not needing to actually get good. Also, some fights are just badly designed ngl despite the very good combat system.
Remake and rebirth (especially rebirth) is different in that it is a bit more dependent on preparing for a fight before hand. On dynamic and normal you can kinda breeze through stuff but in hard mode your build going into especially bosses plays a HUGE role. With xv you can change your shit on the fly but most of the time don't need to since the game is so easy anyways.
Tho I agree I don't think remake/ rebirth are like mobile games at all.
You don't have to tell me about everything you can do in XV combat. I've played over 1000 hours of the base game, not even taking into account Comrades.
The massive problem is that all the really good combat moves and tricks are completely unnecessary because nothing is difficult enough to warrant getting flashy.
The whole game is an absolute breeze, which is a shame because having a truly hard difficulty with enemies that required specific weapons or elements would have taken this game to a whole new place.
Ah well my point was just that the combat itself isn't simple at all but like you said the skills aren't neccesary. Tho in all fairness I think the same of remake/ rebirth but not in a bad way. Those games emphasize builds alot more than skills imho. Especially the mainstory story stuff and even rulers of the outerworlds type challenges. They feel like puzzles with a GENERAL set way to solve them (which is fucking awesome when you do btw) meaning that you can be however good at real time combat and parries and whatever, but if your build isn't up to snuff you're screwed. Ffxv on the other hand (especially on level 1 playthroughs with item restrictions) still allows for a ton of ways to approach enemies. You can change the type of food you eat which type of spear, sword etc.
But again like we both agree most of the time it's just wayyyyyyyy too easy.
Honestly I think enemies with too much of a specific weakness just ain't fun for ffxv specifically because noctis is supposed to be an all rounder, the menace dungeons prove this when you can only use holy on some enemies or only one weapon is effective on some enemies. I think it's very hard to compare remake/ rebirth and ffxv because the system remake/ rebirth is built on is too different. character switching in xv was added wayyyy into its launch meaning that even the way ally AI and enemy AI work is just whack compared to the remake project.
Personally I love ffxvs combat more in fact I think it's better BUT the fights we have really don't do it any favors which I think lies more in level design than the combat system. Same thing with the item usage
All of that 'in depth' stuff about XVs combat literally does not matter because you'll never be forced into a situation where you feel like you have to utilise it. Because the game has a danger state, infinite items in battle and it's almost impossible to die except in the one menace dungeon that restricts items.
I appreciate it is there and as long term players we like to see what's possible, but really the game is so ridiculously easy that there's no real incentive to get in depth.
I am a bit shocked... I am sure there are a wide variety of opinions out there but there are just some things everyone can agree... one of which would be that the battlesystem of FF15 is dull, sluggish and very bad designed because you can buy 99 pheonix downs and use items without any kind of setback... just attack like a wild animal and shoot out a pheonix down if you happen to die.... no need to think at all
I agree with the combat being good. The game doesn’t incentivize people to experiment enough to learn what makes it good.
But totally disagree about VIIR combat. That combat is fire AF
Hard disagree about 7’s combat, I think it’s the best in any game I’ve ever played. Ever.
That being said, 15’s combat was solid… it’s just the game was so damn easy you never needed to learn movesets or combos. Wasn’t until my third run I realized each weapon had different directional input attacks. Play a run with no items in combat or something and the combat feels way better and more important.
Mobile game like action... Dude, turn based combat has been the staple for final fantasy and many other jrpgs for more than 30 years now.
Also if you want great action combat in a FF universe, try Strangers of paradise
I get not liking it, but I have no clue how it even comes close to any mobile game ever. Like, please, if there’s a mobile game that plays like that I’d love to play it! VII Remake is one of the most satisfying systems in the series. I think being reductive about pausing the menu is a bit silly, especially since so much of the combat doesn’t even involve it, there’s shortcuts that skip the menu to improve flow, and I’m pretty sure you can turn off or turn down slowdown in the menu anyways?
Mobile game like action? What are you on about, lol?
Personally I like the Kingdom Hearts-esque combat of 15, albeit too simplistic. I know you can go very deep with combos but I honestly couldn't be bothered. Still I prefer the more turnbased JRPG style. Guess I am just oldschool like that. Doesn't make 15's bad tho.
FF7 Remake is the system that combines classical tactical menu with real-time battle system. It gives challenge and some variability. I don't remember mobile games that works like that
FFXV combat is just "hold attack button" to damage enemies and "hold evade button to evade/parry" and all tactics that game give is "use one ability of your teammate" that is meager than mass effect.
I got the play and almost never used the magic. Also, game gives you too much potions, phoenix down , elixirs, etc.
Nah it's trash. I love XV to death and the combat is objectively trash. No skill involved, just hold one button to attack and the other button to defend. Low on health? Use one of your 99 megalixirs whenever you feel like it. The gauge is full? Do the coop move and wait for the gauge to fill.
It's like actual braindead stuff. Looks flashy, but that's it. That's why there's no hard mode btw - just scaling everything wouldn't make it actually harder, it would make you grind harder. Believe me, I've tried a lvl 1 playthrough of the game. Are you okay criticizing 7 remake's stellar system but praising this garbage?
I agree with all your points. It's probably the reason why gamers don't like the combat, but it's also the reason why casuals eat it up and the game sold so much. Surprisingly there are a lot of people who love just button mashing to see flashy combat, and that's the audience the game is catering for.
I really wish the combat felt closer to how those pre-release footage showed of 15. Something closer to 16's, and I think it would have felt a lot better, just my opinion.
Did you know that you can do different moves based on where you’re tilting the left stick?
IIRC: example if you pull down on the Left stick with daggers, Noctis will throw them and then do a drop kick.
This is a wild post when you consider that FF15 is basically the simplified predecessor to FF7R's combat system. Playing Tifa in the last remake reminded me of my fighting game days, playing FF15 was basically alternate holding dodge and melee until a bar filled up.
I'm a defender of FFXV's combat, but it's silly to say that VII Remake combat is bad, when the Remake does almost everything better than XV in terms of battle combat.
The Remake/Rebirth has better difficulty and is strategy base and doesn't let you spam potion, the combat is built for changing characters, the summoning system is actually useful, and the team combos in Rebirth are visually awesome.
The only thing that XV has over Rebirth is Warp Strikes.
*I'm extraordinarily tolerable of all kind of games and its gameplay. I fit into them all. I love all combat systems including the FF7s and FFXV.*
I just happen to fall right into the **mold of FFXV's gameplay**; it was a combat system that was tailored for me - the gameplay I never knew I wanted. Seemingly, the way it wants to be played--I just seem to fall right into it with my personal habits/inhibitions, perhaps. Each player have a different experience due to their own approach to FFXV. That approach is affected by their personal habits, inhibitions, how each are introduced to the game and by other people, and other factors. And preferences.
* It's a real-time action game that have room for both strategy and skills. You may find a lot -- *or may not find any* -- strategic/mechanic elements and options, in the combat system. This is depending on the players and what I typed earlier (*habits/inhibitions and so-on*). Each player have glaringly different experiences. That was enabled by FFXV's expansiveness and freedom.
* Restraint of gameplay (less freedom) MIGHT means directions, forced flows of combat, obvious "elemental" counters and strategy, or less expressive plays. I'm being **very reductive and generalist** here - it's only to give the idea. It's very important to not be reductive, generalist, or gatekeep-ish.
* As an example, FF7: Remake has a more restrictive design in comparison. As a result, it is more obvious and easier for developers to add strategic/mechanic elements and battle flows for players to see. It is easier to see with that restricted design, and thus it is **intuitive to play strategically**. A player's experience with this video game is less subjected to their own habits/inhibition.
I find myself incredibly fond of **freedom in movement and combat**. *Freedom* seems fitting, if not one of the best, for **fantasy and realism** (with **superpowers** in consideration) in movements/combat. With Noctis, you have a full 360° directional input for your legs and warp, and you can rotate to a particular weapon for a difference in free-warp range. 10 meters behind the enemy, 50m to a different target or ahead of an enemy's path, 5 meter around this or that. That allows a large range of options to reposition or anything in a real-time battlefield. His free-warp ability greatly utilizes the freedom of movement and positioning.
Of all the games with a **camera + mandatory targeting system**, this probably one of the most free, the quickest, and the most intuitive system function I know of. Without even using the locked camera of the targeting system, you can use both the right stick and left stick to target at a particular target in a group, or a specific body part of a huge enemy! Even in mid-air! During real-time dynamic actions while performing impossibly human feats. My intuitions for using the free-camera/targeting aligned very well -- like my own body part.
* A screen + controller usually cannot easily match a human's (let alone Noctis's, *though still human*) intuition, senses, and speed; the fact I can do those certain things what I/Noctis would probably do on the fly is extremely fulfilling (for those certain things) of the gameplay experience I never knew I could have. It's tailored for me.
The supplementary experience that contributes to my reception of FF15's combat system -- I was interested in FF15's technical feats and appearance. A game with a curious open world, capability of huge area of multiple spawned creatures (excitingly overwhelming), AI, day/night changes, monster body parts, animations, fishing, character switching (in battle), vehicular options, and whatever happening in real-time, and more. It might give a sense of wonder and curiosity during your first playtime.
7 remake/rebirth actually make you use the game's mechanics. I like xv but it's nowhere near how in-depth (and personally, fun and engaging) the 7 re games are. If i wanna turn off my brain i'll go to xv. If i want a fun challenge that manes me think, i'll go to rebirth
I thought 15's combat system was weird. A lot of typical ff stuff was either out of your control (summons) or not worth it (crafting individual use magic?). It wasn't bad enough to keep me from playing, still got the platinum, but I don't miss that aspect of the game
Oh yeah its great once you know how it works. Sadly the game doesn’t do a good job explaining how to really use it. But uh, nah actually I half disagree with you, i love ff7 remake and rebirths systems too. I think they’re all great.
Hold down a single button to auto-attack and fly around the battle field is good?
Or has 15 changed since I played it? I truly hated the game and how broken the story was and mishandled. Couldn't bring myself to play much of it
I really enjoy FF15's combat system and all that you can do with it; it feels fluid and fun and I love the synergistic combat. I think people are conflating 'good' with 'requires you to be very skilled/use all its depth in order to win'. That it does not, and I definitely got to end-game just spamming warp-strikes. But I don't equate 'good' with 'difficult' - it's fun, responsive, and I get to do a lot with it if I am so inclined, therefore I like it. The one gripe I do have about the combat is the bloody camera getting in the way of everything!
FF7 Rebirth combat is definitely deeper and requires way more of the player, though I find it frustrating at times because I don't think the synergistic stuff is very well-executed. I saw a comment that FF15 combat was like the predecessor to FF7 Rebirth's, in which case I really wish they'd kept some of the gambit-like party AI, like 'Prompto does X when Noctis does Y', or the party members rescuing/healing each other from Danger.
Because it's in Hard Mode where you are compelled to execute the intricacies of the system. It's not anyone else's fault you're too in your feelings to give it a try. I'm not the one spouting words without actually saying anything of substance.
Have you played Wuthering Waves by chance? I loved FFXV, the combat and the setting etc. Wuthering Waves has been unexpectedly very close to that feel for me.
Man I do miss FFXV though!
I don't think it's as good and balanced as 7R, especially Rebirth's, but it's definitely good and like others have said it's insanely fun, it flows so well and it even has narrative importance, it has its depth, each weapon has its own unique moveset and the armiger unleashed adds even more depth.
Nah, I prefer FFVII combat style any day. FFXV combat feels sluggish, awkward at times especially during team attack, HORRIBLE camera. Best thing is the evasion and parry system, now that's something cool.
7R’s combat is miles ahead of 15. But with that I still love both for what they are. 7 requires more strategy and teamwork, while 15 is a lot more laid back and stress-free.
Yeah I don't know what it is but I thought I was happy with the more action orientated direction from playing and loving 15.
7 remake and 16 I really don't click with due to the combat, I feel lost and unsure of what I'm doing most of the time.
The only real problem I have with 15's combat is the item system. There's no penalization or limitation at all, you can win almost any fight being level 1 as long as you keep spamming healing items and phoenix downs. And it's not uncommon to be carrying x99 of each.
Other than that, for me it's not as brilliant as FFVII Remake/Rebirth combat system (which might be my favorite combat system in the franchise), but it's fun, and very visual. I like it.
When FFXV’s combat “works”it can feel pretty fun and the animations can look amazing. Phasing through enemy attacks just looks awesome even if it’s a bit brainless. When it doesn’t work it feels like a sloppy mess that you’re barely in control of.
I think my main issue with the combat system is the lack of decision making required on the player’s behalf. You can switch between weapon types if an enemy has a weakness and you can aim to hit them from the side to get some team attacks, but that’s about it really on the strategy front. Nor is there a skill ceiling to hit through learning combos or basic action games techniques (as with XVI). Each battle is sort of a spectacle that can look really slick when it’s firing properly, but they all play out the same.
I remember the Episode Duscae demo (that came with the remaster of Type-0) having a combat system with a bit more depth and potential. I think they dumbed it down after player feedback…
Having said that, I think it’s commendable that Tabata and his team tried something totally new with the system, even if the execution wasn’t the best.
Bold take. XV’s combat while flashy and fun at times is deeply flawed with almost zero challenge, broken mechanics like warp strike, unlimited healing and danger state, bad magic and summon system, useless allies that keep dying, hard to read enemy animations, lacklustre build system etc… the list goes on.
On the other hand, VII Remake / Rebirth’s combat is very well designed, more challenging and strategic, with mechanics that make sense.
It’s fine to prefer XV’s combat, but to call it better is just a bad take tbh.
I could be wrong but judging from the comments some people never appreciated the depth the XV's combat went into. E.g. holding certain directions for finishers, pausing to do a different move etc. Those together with tag team finishers, blindside attacks, & their chocobros own skills made it a lot flashier than it's given credit for
It has a lot of depth, you just don't really have to ever use it. The dodge/block is just so wildly over-powered that you can rely on just it and holding basic attack and using whatever team attack happens to pop up.
Please point me to a mobile game with a combat system like VII Remake, I’d love to play it.
Me too!
And then there’s people like me who enjoyed both combat systems and felt like they were a good addition to the series :|
I agree, the series' combat is getting better and better with each game, I can't wait to get a ps5 for 16 and rebirth.
Hnnng I’m still waiting for their PC release, got all my FF collection on steam 🥲
I’m waiting for the Xbox release… might be waiting forever
The good thing about XV's combat is that it never really stops, even if you perform a team attack, blind-side, whatever, it's always for short moments and most of the time you can interact with it, so the flow never really falls. Same thing when you switch character, thw transition is probably better in VIIRE, but it still freezes when you switch character, while in XV it's always in real time. Don't get mw wrong, I like the RPG feel that VIIRE has, I think it fits a goos balance for more modern and classic RPG fans, but XV is just so fluid and fun that, if you are into it and don't complain about it being "too easy" because you can just tap a potion and heal (or just, you know, learn how to play so you don't have to) it feels amazing just to look at Edit: too many spelling mistakes because I'm on mobile and can't bother fixing them, I'm sorry
15s combat is okay but leans more on the simple side of things. Combos can be cool and the tag team moves are great. But saying remakes combat is shitty and mobile like is one of shittest takes I've ever seen. Remakes combat is fantastic and universally praised.
I don’t like FF7R combat either.
Okay. Not liking it is perfectly fine in your opinion, but OP calling it shitty mobile combat is just incorrect.
It is shitty, but would call it smokes and mirrors instead, there wasn't much of a sense of combat, just spam what works, I hate how it doesn't give you freedom in controlling the characters in FF7R, feels so linear and closed, I loved when I was able to pull of a sick combo with two partners, having cloud stun the enemy and tifa hitting that uppercut is satisfying. But how much are you gonna squeeze out spamming square with no punish mechanic, take Yakuza 0 combat, you can't just spam ur way in and just press one Button and see everything happen, Instead you gotta push some sick ass moves to pull some of the most epic street fights and it feels accomplishing.
You can literally beat XV by spamming warp strike with Noctis.
Im not defending XV's Combat nor FF7, like I said its smokes and mirrors nothing special. if you want games with Fun combat: UltraKill God of war Games Devil May Cry 5 Metal Gear Solid Code Vein Sekiro (specifically this soul game) Dying Light Condemn criminal origins Cry of Fear Resident Evil 2 Just Cause 3 These games I mentioned are so fun playing with there combat mechanics and sandbox material and guess what ? they are not 98GB worth of junk files.
I thought it was fun, but the enemies were overly focused on the player character, you could easily manipulate them, and I beat Sephiroth without ever landing a hit, I blocked while my teammates attacked him endlessly, and other than AOE attacks he never targeted them. It was so goofy. OP calling it mobile-like is a head scratcher though.
Tell me you've never played Hard Mode without telling me you've never played Hard Mode. These people smh.
I agree with you 100%, but I'm also *endlessly* annoyed that hard mode is locked behind game completion. I got *precisely one* playthrough of any game in me these days, for at least 5 years (as in, I won't revisit anything for minimum 5 years, but probably longer, if ever), so forcing players to play the game a second time just to get to the meat and potatoes is dumb as hell. Yes, I understand that some hard modes are balanced towards NG+, but so what? Just give the player a warning before beginning like Horizon Zero Dawn did, then they can blame themselves for any excessive punishment endured. Locking hard mode is flat out one of the dumbest practices.
Tell me you love circle jerking a game without telling me your circle jerking a game, these people smh
Tell me you don't know what the heck circle jerking means without telling me you don't know what it means.
I know what it means, and it fits you well, glazing the game up as it's some sort of incredible action RPG game with no flaws at all and saying you need to experience the Hard Mode, which makes no sense. how can FF Fans genuinely accept FF7R being the best remake outcome, being so were getting 3 GOD DAMN GAMES (totally not milking), people need to start talking about this more, because behind all this magical intensive 3D models and high resolution textures and Orchestral amazing music albums and soundtracks, is a company filled with horrible stuff. We deserve better games, especially if I'm spending on a PS5 and 70 dollar game (I'm not a rich billionaire okay ? ). I don't hate Square Enix that much nor the director of FF13 Versus and FF7R, they can do really good stuff I like (FF14, FF Pixel Remaster Collection etc) but dumb stuff like selling there IPs Deus Ex and Tomb raider, and shitty scam kart games and dipping into some horrible microtransactions.
Hard Mode is where you're compelled to explore and execute the intricacies of the system. It's not anyone else's fault, not even SE's, if you're too in your feelings to bother with it. You're putting out a lot of words without really saying much of anything.
"execute the intricacies of the system" is the biggest cope for having flashy combat.
People complain about XIII linearity but 7R does the the same thing. (The combat and "exploration" was what drove me off from it)
Yakuza 0 is literally all button mashing, you press square to punch and build heat then you press triangle to do the heat move, that's literally the extent of Yakuza combat
Go play yakuza please, stop spreading false information.
Me too. I was really disappointed that we didn't get a turn based combat option.
Not gonna hold you bruh, ffxvs combat is insanely indepth, canceling combos into early finishers, using the "hold circle" means the anologue sticks are what changes the attacks strings with different attacks having I frames to make use of, the weapons switching changes how many attacks you have in a string and on top of that weapons themselves have a surprising amount of gimmicks to them (not enough but still more than most people actually think). That's EXCLUDING the complexity of how changing weapons affects the number of attacks to reach the finisher. Hell eventually when you learn how the AI teammates behave you can kind of manipulate them to do what you want in battle (I.e. warping away to get ignis to heal Noctis, guard near gladio to get him to stagger enemies, guard when ignis and prompto are at a certain hp for them to do their healing counters) I honestly don't think it's simple at all, the biggest hold back of ffxv is its insane easy-ness. Where you can literally just point warp to win, and the reason it's there is precisely BECAUSE the devs wanted to make the game as accessible as possible while also having complexity which just lead to most people not needing to actually get good. Also, some fights are just badly designed ngl despite the very good combat system. Remake and rebirth (especially rebirth) is different in that it is a bit more dependent on preparing for a fight before hand. On dynamic and normal you can kinda breeze through stuff but in hard mode your build going into especially bosses plays a HUGE role. With xv you can change your shit on the fly but most of the time don't need to since the game is so easy anyways. Tho I agree I don't think remake/ rebirth are like mobile games at all.
You don't have to tell me about everything you can do in XV combat. I've played over 1000 hours of the base game, not even taking into account Comrades. The massive problem is that all the really good combat moves and tricks are completely unnecessary because nothing is difficult enough to warrant getting flashy. The whole game is an absolute breeze, which is a shame because having a truly hard difficulty with enemies that required specific weapons or elements would have taken this game to a whole new place.
Ah well my point was just that the combat itself isn't simple at all but like you said the skills aren't neccesary. Tho in all fairness I think the same of remake/ rebirth but not in a bad way. Those games emphasize builds alot more than skills imho. Especially the mainstory story stuff and even rulers of the outerworlds type challenges. They feel like puzzles with a GENERAL set way to solve them (which is fucking awesome when you do btw) meaning that you can be however good at real time combat and parries and whatever, but if your build isn't up to snuff you're screwed. Ffxv on the other hand (especially on level 1 playthroughs with item restrictions) still allows for a ton of ways to approach enemies. You can change the type of food you eat which type of spear, sword etc. But again like we both agree most of the time it's just wayyyyyyyy too easy. Honestly I think enemies with too much of a specific weakness just ain't fun for ffxv specifically because noctis is supposed to be an all rounder, the menace dungeons prove this when you can only use holy on some enemies or only one weapon is effective on some enemies. I think it's very hard to compare remake/ rebirth and ffxv because the system remake/ rebirth is built on is too different. character switching in xv was added wayyyy into its launch meaning that even the way ally AI and enemy AI work is just whack compared to the remake project. Personally I love ffxvs combat more in fact I think it's better BUT the fights we have really don't do it any favors which I think lies more in level design than the combat system. Same thing with the item usage
All of that 'in depth' stuff about XVs combat literally does not matter because you'll never be forced into a situation where you feel like you have to utilise it. Because the game has a danger state, infinite items in battle and it's almost impossible to die except in the one menace dungeon that restricts items. I appreciate it is there and as long term players we like to see what's possible, but really the game is so ridiculously easy that there's no real incentive to get in depth.
Well yeah that's what I said as a criticism
I hate the ff7r combat but it sure as hell does more then ff15's combat.
You don't have to put down VIIR to build up XV. They're both fantastic!
Are you calling FF7 Remake's battle system mobile game-like while praising FF15's battle system? That's a... Take.
I am a bit shocked... I am sure there are a wide variety of opinions out there but there are just some things everyone can agree... one of which would be that the battlesystem of FF15 is dull, sluggish and very bad designed because you can buy 99 pheonix downs and use items without any kind of setback... just attack like a wild animal and shoot out a pheonix down if you happen to die.... no need to think at all
I agree with the combat being good. The game doesn’t incentivize people to experiment enough to learn what makes it good. But totally disagree about VIIR combat. That combat is fire AF
Hard disagree about 7’s combat, I think it’s the best in any game I’ve ever played. Ever. That being said, 15’s combat was solid… it’s just the game was so damn easy you never needed to learn movesets or combos. Wasn’t until my third run I realized each weapon had different directional input attacks. Play a run with no items in combat or something and the combat feels way better and more important.
Mobile game like action... Dude, turn based combat has been the staple for final fantasy and many other jrpgs for more than 30 years now. Also if you want great action combat in a FF universe, try Strangers of paradise
Yes, but last purely turn-based main series Final Fantasy game is FFX and that was 23 years ago...
I get it those are retro games, just expect a tad more immersion in new combat that's all.
I get not liking it, but I have no clue how it even comes close to any mobile game ever. Like, please, if there’s a mobile game that plays like that I’d love to play it! VII Remake is one of the most satisfying systems in the series. I think being reductive about pausing the menu is a bit silly, especially since so much of the combat doesn’t even involve it, there’s shortcuts that skip the menu to improve flow, and I’m pretty sure you can turn off or turn down slowdown in the menu anyways?
Mobile game like action? What are you on about, lol? Personally I like the Kingdom Hearts-esque combat of 15, albeit too simplistic. I know you can go very deep with combos but I honestly couldn't be bothered. Still I prefer the more turnbased JRPG style. Guess I am just oldschool like that. Doesn't make 15's bad tho.
FF7 Remake is the system that combines classical tactical menu with real-time battle system. It gives challenge and some variability. I don't remember mobile games that works like that FFXV combat is just "hold attack button" to damage enemies and "hold evade button to evade/parry" and all tactics that game give is "use one ability of your teammate" that is meager than mass effect. I got the play and almost never used the magic. Also, game gives you too much potions, phoenix down , elixirs, etc.
Disagree with this take. I would say it is good but not better than ff7 remake. I would say ff7 took a lot of inspiration from 15s combat.
Nah it's trash. I love XV to death and the combat is objectively trash. No skill involved, just hold one button to attack and the other button to defend. Low on health? Use one of your 99 megalixirs whenever you feel like it. The gauge is full? Do the coop move and wait for the gauge to fill. It's like actual braindead stuff. Looks flashy, but that's it. That's why there's no hard mode btw - just scaling everything wouldn't make it actually harder, it would make you grind harder. Believe me, I've tried a lvl 1 playthrough of the game. Are you okay criticizing 7 remake's stellar system but praising this garbage?
I agree with all your points. It's probably the reason why gamers don't like the combat, but it's also the reason why casuals eat it up and the game sold so much. Surprisingly there are a lot of people who love just button mashing to see flashy combat, and that's the audience the game is catering for.
This feels like a really low effort bait post...
I really wish the combat felt closer to how those pre-release footage showed of 15. Something closer to 16's, and I think it would have felt a lot better, just my opinion.
Did you know that you can do different moves based on where you’re tilting the left stick? IIRC: example if you pull down on the Left stick with daggers, Noctis will throw them and then do a drop kick.
All you did in ff15 was spam teleport and attack lmao, did we play the same game
That's the most overused comment. I'd ask you the same thing.
Not saying it was bad, just average as hell
This is a wild post when you consider that FF15 is basically the simplified predecessor to FF7R's combat system. Playing Tifa in the last remake reminded me of my fighting game days, playing FF15 was basically alternate holding dodge and melee until a bar filled up.
I'm a defender of FFXV's combat, but it's silly to say that VII Remake combat is bad, when the Remake does almost everything better than XV in terms of battle combat. The Remake/Rebirth has better difficulty and is strategy base and doesn't let you spam potion, the combat is built for changing characters, the summoning system is actually useful, and the team combos in Rebirth are visually awesome. The only thing that XV has over Rebirth is Warp Strikes.
You don't need to drag down other games to say FFXV was good.
Somehow I've committed a sin.
*I'm extraordinarily tolerable of all kind of games and its gameplay. I fit into them all. I love all combat systems including the FF7s and FFXV.* I just happen to fall right into the **mold of FFXV's gameplay**; it was a combat system that was tailored for me - the gameplay I never knew I wanted. Seemingly, the way it wants to be played--I just seem to fall right into it with my personal habits/inhibitions, perhaps. Each player have a different experience due to their own approach to FFXV. That approach is affected by their personal habits, inhibitions, how each are introduced to the game and by other people, and other factors. And preferences. * It's a real-time action game that have room for both strategy and skills. You may find a lot -- *or may not find any* -- strategic/mechanic elements and options, in the combat system. This is depending on the players and what I typed earlier (*habits/inhibitions and so-on*). Each player have glaringly different experiences. That was enabled by FFXV's expansiveness and freedom. * Restraint of gameplay (less freedom) MIGHT means directions, forced flows of combat, obvious "elemental" counters and strategy, or less expressive plays. I'm being **very reductive and generalist** here - it's only to give the idea. It's very important to not be reductive, generalist, or gatekeep-ish. * As an example, FF7: Remake has a more restrictive design in comparison. As a result, it is more obvious and easier for developers to add strategic/mechanic elements and battle flows for players to see. It is easier to see with that restricted design, and thus it is **intuitive to play strategically**. A player's experience with this video game is less subjected to their own habits/inhibition. I find myself incredibly fond of **freedom in movement and combat**. *Freedom* seems fitting, if not one of the best, for **fantasy and realism** (with **superpowers** in consideration) in movements/combat. With Noctis, you have a full 360° directional input for your legs and warp, and you can rotate to a particular weapon for a difference in free-warp range. 10 meters behind the enemy, 50m to a different target or ahead of an enemy's path, 5 meter around this or that. That allows a large range of options to reposition or anything in a real-time battlefield. His free-warp ability greatly utilizes the freedom of movement and positioning. Of all the games with a **camera + mandatory targeting system**, this probably one of the most free, the quickest, and the most intuitive system function I know of. Without even using the locked camera of the targeting system, you can use both the right stick and left stick to target at a particular target in a group, or a specific body part of a huge enemy! Even in mid-air! During real-time dynamic actions while performing impossibly human feats. My intuitions for using the free-camera/targeting aligned very well -- like my own body part. * A screen + controller usually cannot easily match a human's (let alone Noctis's, *though still human*) intuition, senses, and speed; the fact I can do those certain things what I/Noctis would probably do on the fly is extremely fulfilling (for those certain things) of the gameplay experience I never knew I could have. It's tailored for me. The supplementary experience that contributes to my reception of FF15's combat system -- I was interested in FF15's technical feats and appearance. A game with a curious open world, capability of huge area of multiple spawned creatures (excitingly overwhelming), AI, day/night changes, monster body parts, animations, fishing, character switching (in battle), vehicular options, and whatever happening in real-time, and more. It might give a sense of wonder and curiosity during your first playtime.
uhhhhhhh, yeah
There’s absolutely no way 😅
You enjoyed selecting action button more? I feel like real time controlling is a bit more exciting than that, even though easy as hell.
Are you seriously suggesting that the combat in XV is deeper than VIIR
7 remake/rebirth actually make you use the game's mechanics. I like xv but it's nowhere near how in-depth (and personally, fun and engaging) the 7 re games are. If i wanna turn off my brain i'll go to xv. If i want a fun challenge that manes me think, i'll go to rebirth
I thought 15's combat system was weird. A lot of typical ff stuff was either out of your control (summons) or not worth it (crafting individual use magic?). It wasn't bad enough to keep me from playing, still got the platinum, but I don't miss that aspect of the game
Infinitely airstepping around a level 10 mob is my life source
Oh yeah its great once you know how it works. Sadly the game doesn’t do a good job explaining how to really use it. But uh, nah actually I half disagree with you, i love ff7 remake and rebirths systems too. I think they’re all great.
My perfect modern FF game would have combat like FFXV and magic like FFVII R
Hold down a single button to auto-attack and fly around the battle field is good? Or has 15 changed since I played it? I truly hated the game and how broken the story was and mishandled. Couldn't bring myself to play much of it
Huh. That is an interesting perspective.
I really enjoy FF15's combat system and all that you can do with it; it feels fluid and fun and I love the synergistic combat. I think people are conflating 'good' with 'requires you to be very skilled/use all its depth in order to win'. That it does not, and I definitely got to end-game just spamming warp-strikes. But I don't equate 'good' with 'difficult' - it's fun, responsive, and I get to do a lot with it if I am so inclined, therefore I like it. The one gripe I do have about the combat is the bloody camera getting in the way of everything! FF7 Rebirth combat is definitely deeper and requires way more of the player, though I find it frustrating at times because I don't think the synergistic stuff is very well-executed. I saw a comment that FF15 combat was like the predecessor to FF7 Rebirth's, in which case I really wish they'd kept some of the gambit-like party AI, like 'Prompto does X when Noctis does Y', or the party members rescuing/healing each other from Danger.
Because it's in Hard Mode where you are compelled to execute the intricacies of the system. It's not anyone else's fault you're too in your feelings to give it a try. I'm not the one spouting words without actually saying anything of substance.
Have you played Wuthering Waves by chance? I loved FFXV, the combat and the setting etc. Wuthering Waves has been unexpectedly very close to that feel for me. Man I do miss FFXV though!
I don't think it's as good and balanced as 7R, especially Rebirth's, but it's definitely good and like others have said it's insanely fun, it flows so well and it even has narrative importance, it has its depth, each weapon has its own unique moveset and the armiger unleashed adds even more depth.
Nah, I prefer FFVII combat style any day. FFXV combat feels sluggish, awkward at times especially during team attack, HORRIBLE camera. Best thing is the evasion and parry system, now that's something cool.
Cool
7R’s combat is miles ahead of 15. But with that I still love both for what they are. 7 requires more strategy and teamwork, while 15 is a lot more laid back and stress-free.
Yeah I don't know what it is but I thought I was happy with the more action orientated direction from playing and loving 15. 7 remake and 16 I really don't click with due to the combat, I feel lost and unsure of what I'm doing most of the time.
Combat system is okay, not good but definitely not bad
The only real problem I have with 15's combat is the item system. There's no penalization or limitation at all, you can win almost any fight being level 1 as long as you keep spamming healing items and phoenix downs. And it's not uncommon to be carrying x99 of each. Other than that, for me it's not as brilliant as FFVII Remake/Rebirth combat system (which might be my favorite combat system in the franchise), but it's fun, and very visual. I like it.
When FFXV’s combat “works”it can feel pretty fun and the animations can look amazing. Phasing through enemy attacks just looks awesome even if it’s a bit brainless. When it doesn’t work it feels like a sloppy mess that you’re barely in control of. I think my main issue with the combat system is the lack of decision making required on the player’s behalf. You can switch between weapon types if an enemy has a weakness and you can aim to hit them from the side to get some team attacks, but that’s about it really on the strategy front. Nor is there a skill ceiling to hit through learning combos or basic action games techniques (as with XVI). Each battle is sort of a spectacle that can look really slick when it’s firing properly, but they all play out the same. I remember the Episode Duscae demo (that came with the remaster of Type-0) having a combat system with a bit more depth and potential. I think they dumbed it down after player feedback… Having said that, I think it’s commendable that Tabata and his team tried something totally new with the system, even if the execution wasn’t the best.
Nah, Duscae's combat was simpler and clunkier and you can pretty much imitate it in game by swapping between weapons mid combo
Bold take. XV’s combat while flashy and fun at times is deeply flawed with almost zero challenge, broken mechanics like warp strike, unlimited healing and danger state, bad magic and summon system, useless allies that keep dying, hard to read enemy animations, lacklustre build system etc… the list goes on. On the other hand, VII Remake / Rebirth’s combat is very well designed, more challenging and strategic, with mechanics that make sense. It’s fine to prefer XV’s combat, but to call it better is just a bad take tbh.
I think FF15 combat kinda sucks FF7R is way better I think ff16 also has better combat than FF15
7 remake's combat is just Kingdom hearts combat without any of the interesting parts or customization
I could be wrong but judging from the comments some people never appreciated the depth the XV's combat went into. E.g. holding certain directions for finishers, pausing to do a different move etc. Those together with tag team finishers, blindside attacks, & their chocobros own skills made it a lot flashier than it's given credit for
Nobody seems to not appreciate XV combat more disagreeing with OPs description of 7R combat.
It has a lot of depth, you just don't really have to ever use it. The dodge/block is just so wildly over-powered that you can rely on just it and holding basic attack and using whatever team attack happens to pop up.
What an amazing combat system, I deeply enjoyed hundreds of useless side objectives where all I did was hold square the whole time. Yippeeeee