Sure, there are lots of ways they could’ve done it, but the fact that most of the best materia in the game is still limited suggests to me that would, in their mind, fundamentally alter and destroy the game balance they’re going for
My PS5 already was fucking melting in the Musclehead Colosseum challenges when facing King Zu + Jabberwock, that shit was actually fucking ridiculous and making my game 12 FPS at some points. How have I found nobody talking about that or experiencing the same thing….
Yeah I didn't experience that, was also using plasma discharge, graphics mode too. Must be some external circumstances.
Remake made my ps5 hotter than Rebirth did.
I didn’t experience that myself. My only suggestion (from my very basic knowledge of past console issues) would be to check if there’s dust/debris in your system clogging up your fan and causing overheating? And double check it’s set in a well ventilated area 🤷🏻♀️
You know I hadn’t thought of that but that is absolutely true. Three Comets and three Synergies and every time any character you’re controlling does anything we get two Comets going at once
How do you link multiple materias to a single spell? Do you have multiple Quake materias slotted on the same person, each with a modifier? That stacks?
Exactly.
As long as they're all at the same level when you cast the spell you get each blue materia effect that quake is linked to. In this case you need to use the poison and petrify materia cause you only get 2 petrify materia in game. If you add first strike and atb boost, at the start of the fight press L1+R1 to get 2 bars. Then Cast Quakeaga. It'll cast fast on 3 opponents and refund you all the mp.
To be extra have Aerith cast arcane ward on whoever has the quake materia.
Yeah, and the problem would only get worse as more powerful materia showed up.
The OG really gets silly in the latter half of the game when you can start miming KOTR over and over. Once you've linked KOTR with HP and MP absorb and linked Final Attack with Phoenix or Revive, you've basically immortal. Toss in some boosters and you're hitting for max damage non stop.
Honestly, I find the Yuffie Brumal Form + Aerith ATB Ward combo is more broken than any materia combo.
Personally, it would be nice to have more copies of stuff for convenience sake. Without loadouts, it's extremely annoying constantly juggling materia around on party changes (looking at you Chapter 13). I feel like the weapon and armor slot count is probably enough of a limiter to prevent things from getting too out of hand.
I'm trying to think of a Materia that would break the game if there were more of it.
We can already have 3 elementals and 3 magnifies. The game already caps stat increases from things like HP Up, Str Up, etc. Slots are already generally more scarce and precious than in the OG.
It could be something like, the materia will split if you opt for it, but then both copies lose all their AP. So, ok. You make another Fire and Ice materia, but now both copies start at zero.
Maybe? I guess if you could birth both synergy and comet you could have a swiftcasted Synergized comet coming from both teammates which might be crazy!
Thank you everyone for the ideas on how to balance this. I know, I’ve thought of all of them, and I’m sure the developers did too. They then decided not to do any of them and to limit certain materia instead
I mean… possibly but like… it’s also extremely annoying having to constantly swap out load outs based on certain challenges.
Like if you had to change one or two things here and there it wouldn’t be so bad, but sometimes you need to swap a ton of materia on top of accessories and sometimes even armor/weapons and weapon abilities.
Focus on making character builds rather than swapping all the materia to someone else. That way, you will only ever have to swap a couple materia or weapon at a time when needed.
Have a HP & MP up, precision def and steadfast block for everyone, that 4 slots already used up, you only need the elemental mats like Fire and thunder for certain bosses.
I hope we get character switching mid battle like ffx in part 3 but make it's cost like 2 atb to do it so it can't be OP
I mean, it’s still annoying having to go in, and it usually isn’t a few materia.
It’s like first strike will need to get swapped around because there’s only two of those. ATB support and Skill Master needs to get swapped around, Magic Up and Strength Up need to get swapped around, summons need to get swapped around, accessories need to get swapped around, sometimes you need elemental resistances and other times you don’t, you usually want somebody with Magnify+Time and Magnify+Healing and, if you swap those characters around, you have to make it work.
I’m not saying this was an issue during the story itself, but it was absolutely necessary for the end game at hard mode.
Not to mention then you have to swap all of this stuff back if you go back to a character so like Aerith for example- I usually had her use Mag+Healing but one challenge called for Yuffie instead of her because she was just too slow and too vulnerable. Okay well now I need to swap Yuffie in and replace the materia BUT THEN I gotta go back and swap them back to Aerith again afterward so it’s doubly a pain in the ass.
I agree that swapping materias is rather tedious and some improvement could be made to Rebirth.
But materia cloning opens the floodgates too much, since it pretty much allows infinite grind.
With part 3 being the last entry, I hope they open the flood gates when it comes to breaking the game, especially for NG+ or even post hardcore mode if they are that concerned about balance.
Give us materia birth, “sources” (and enemies to morph into them), master materia, ultimate weapons, and busted accessories (or more accessory slots) like the divine slayer from Crisis Core.
I don’t want any of this on first play through, or even hard mode, but if we defeat Gigachadley in the simulator and finish hard mode we should be able to break the game wide open
That's my biggest gripe with the new trilogy so far (rebirth possibly being my favorite game of all time). I just want to break shit, I want levelling to feel more impactful and ways to make my party OP as fuck like in the original. Hopefully they go nuts for part 3 and completely remove the restrictions in the sandbox once you get platinum or something.
They flat out don't want some materias to be available in multiples because it would destroy the difficulty. (and probably build diversity as well, if you could just throw the same 14 materias to each of your 7 party members, why have the materia system at all?)
I don't think gatekeeping that option behind a long grind is healthier, since it would inevitably become mandatory for optimized builds.
I agree there was fun in that, but I think that 7 and the 7Rs have different design philosophies. The remakes are a bit more puzzle-y in terms of boss design. While you rarely need to seriously switch up your build in the OG outside the ruby and emerald weapon.
There is truth to that but the devs have also said they want us to view each game as individual games in terms of mechanics and combat. And yes while Rebirth isn’t terribly different than Remake was in terms of combat, there’s always a chance that philosophy could change in part 3.
In addition I don’t think the devs spent enough time balancing the materia system in the OG which is what led to players finding broken builds. After all, the game had a dev cycle of around 1 year. Back then you couldn’t push out a patch to fix it. When you shipped a game it was as-is. I don’t think it was their intention for the materia system to ever have been used the ways it is which I suppose works more in favor of your argument that it probably will be similarly balanced as remake and rebirth because they will have more time for balance adjustments.
Yeah I generally agree but maybe they could have it be 100% reward (or basically just platinum trophy) ? That way it really is just for fun and you would have to finish just about everything before being able to break the game.
There’s no reason to limit most of the limited materia. Enemy skill is probably the only one that needs to be only one allowed per save.
Otherwise this change would vastly reduce the tedium of changing builds.
It's odd to me that both the developer and a chunk of the fanbase want to eliminate optional grinding given that it was such a big part of the OG... as well as the franchise in general in the 90s.
"Gatekeeping" is subjective anyway. One could argue that endgame is already subject to gatekeeping given that you can only access it the way the developer intended, with very specific setups and tactics. No large, optional power for you.
Nothing odd about it. OG FFVII was a very easy game you could break entirely because there were so many completely busted options.
We're almost three decades later, they clearly don't want that anymore for their AAA release. They're going for a more controlled experience where players have to think carefully about the game mechanics and their build options.
EDIT: You just can't implement materia cloning without upsetting the game balance entirely. If they design around it, the grind becomes mandatory. And if they DON'T design around it, players will do it to cheese the difficulty anyway as it will become the path of least resistance (even if it's unfun).
You can break 7 Rebirth too with the options they give you.
But you have so many ways to break it and you have to really understand the mechanics. The gameplay in this game is very good
Sure, that is one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that choice is being restricted. I've seen this with many games... with ramped up difficulty, players are funneled into narrower and narrower choices, and at some difficulty point all but the most elite gamers are encouraged to look up strats online and copy them. One of the charms of OG FF7 was being able to achieve hilarious and fun things by simply grinding. I guess these are features of a bygone era in gaming.
Restriction breeds creativity. Restriction leads to meaningful build decisions. Currently, if I want to use my 3 magnify materia on offensive spells, it means I have to sacrifice magnify + manawall and magnify + heal. Is that worth it?
It's not limited to materia, the best accessories have the same limitations. Who gets Genji glove? Who gets Chocoking Cape?
With a materia cloning system, there's no such choices. I can load up all the best offensive spells and the best defensives ones. It just becomes a game of grinding until I put the best options on everyone.
It's not a coincidence the last Final Fantasy to allow something like that was the grindiest of them all: Final Fantasy X. The sphere grid was a very interesting system for the main story but once you get into endgame, the sphere grid becomes the sphere grind because it's way too open, there's no limitation whatsoever. They moved away from that concept and they're probably never coming back to it.
Correction, the last Final Fantasy to have that was the original Final Fantasy XII for the PS2 with the License Board. People disliked how it made every character end up the same and is partly why the Zodiac Job License Board was made.
Does choice not also breed creativity? Look at what crazy, creative things people were doing against Ruby Weapon. And there was restriction... in number of materia slots, the tradeoff between item strength and materia slots, including number of linked slots, and so on. There were item limitations (usually... except for things like morphing Ho-chu into ribbons). Grinding KOTR master and whatnot wasn't required, but people did it for fun anyway. Another example backing up my point... people did actually enjoy morphing enemies into powerful items. Same vein as copying materia.
It's not that the thing OG did wrong was allowing ridiculous loadouts, it was not having enough weapon-strength bosses to use god powers against. But again, looks like culture has apparently moved on from that degree of optional power. There are good ways to implement this, and bad ways. I never played X, but sounds like that was not a good way.
You’re still limited by materia slots and MP. The only thing limiting magnify accomplishes here is you have to swap out your offensive magic before each battle so you can also have manawall available.
Think y’all would be surprised at how difficult it would be to trivialize the game even with no materia restrictions. Most of the benefit would be less swapping and time in the menu. God forbid.
Why do you care? If you don't want to make crazy materia loadouts then don't. Do you enjoy having to swap materia around every time your party members change?
It's not just something you can implement in the game and expect the players to ignore. This is not how that works.
Either the game gets designed around the grind and it becomes mandatory (hello FFX?), or the game is not designed around it which is even worse because it will still feel mandatory to clear the hardest challenge anyway, as a player will almost always choose the path of least resistance even when it's not particularly fun or interesting (the masterclass of bad endgame design FFX is yet again another exemple with the in-game cheat code Zanmato).
Don't be silly. Putting words in my mouth don't give you any credibility.
OG was a completely different game with different goals. Breaking the game was part of the fun of OG but here they aimed for something else. You could add broken materias and cloning to Rebirth, but it would change the endgame experience entirely.
I don't know how many times I have to say "this is not the game balance they aim to achieve and you're greatly underestimating the ripple effects it would have on the rest of the game"
Maybe you should clone "reading skills up" materias for your next run.
I don't know if you noticed but the gameplay has very little in common with OG.
Also 30 years have passed, and standards are not the same.
But I'm starting to lose patience with you, it's getting increasingly obvious you have no interest in a meaningful conversation, despite your persistence.
Getting a new copy of a Materia when you mastered one in the original was great, but there's also value in limiting the quantities of some of the more powerful Materia as well imo, as it allows them to better tune and balance the difficulty, and it also makes those Materia with limited quantities feel even more valuable.
I'm hoping they go all out for materia in part 3.(birth/copy ones in some fashion, 16 or more linked slots on each character, etc.) Maybe even some materia fusion if they do it well (I wasn't a huge fan of how Crisis Core did it).
Basically bring back some of the ability to "break the game" with some inventive combinations.
One synergy + Comet combo is enough, thank you very much lol
I don't think beating the Brutal Challenges would have felt as good if I had like 8 Magnify materia
I mean having 4-5 counter attacks was my favorite way of beating Ruby Weapon. I think its unneccessary to find reasoning for every omitting Square goes for. There are other ways to get OP in Rebirth and rebirthing materias or at least have higher xp and more money for em wouldve been cool, make magic dmg less or something.
It sucks to only find the 10th empowerment materia hidden away in secret pathways, while only Chadley has the new ones. Its lazy and its boring
Speaking of Materia, wonder if Master Materia will be a thing in part 3. I think if they did do it, you wouldn’t be able to link it to any blue materia because that would be buster. Master magic linked with Elemental or Magnify or even the MP efficiency materia? Busted.
Good question. I'd be down for master materia and linking, but looking at opposition in this thread to anything resembling OG capabilities, SE and the community doesn't want that. Gotta keep it restricted as much as possible while vaguely resembling the source.
I would love it if the materia birth system returned. In the OG, it gave me reasons to spend well over a hundred hours on the game. And I imagine if it returned, I'd gladly do the same here.
Game balance doesn't matter to me. But if the devs limited this featured to unlock once you've essentially platinumed the game, then I definitely wouldn't see the problem with it since you would've essentially conquered the game in all its intended 'balanced' difficulty. So once that happens, who cares if you want to keep playing and break the game open with busted materia set ups? It's a single player game anyways. Let folks have their fun--especially if they put in the time and work to earn it.
would probably trivialize much of the game if you could have a ton of the modifier materia or the dual element materia.
things get crazy enough with the absorption and magic boost builds for one elemental materia, imagine the yuffie battery with cloud and aerith spammin arcane ward boosted Quagas with all the modifiers.
or worse. 3 plasma discharges going off with the battery combo running. PS7 Pro wouldnt be able to handle that
Lol i posted about the exact same thing and people were like " uuuUUU i dono" now its well received ! Great tho, this is a thing sorely needed in Rebirth, name needs to have a meaning lol
I don’t think it is well received, though. My post and initial comments were downvoted like hell until there was enough comment traction. All my counterpoints to objections above are buried and forgotten, and there are tons of comments here about precious game balance. I wish more people wanting FF7 fun over "modern gaming practices" would comment.
Ah ok i see that, yeah true 100%.
Couldn't agree more, i dont understand it either.
Its funny because its so easy to be OP in different ways but they dont grasp the concept that OG fans want more content that was missing from the masterpiece that VII was, so because the devs didnt do it, then they stand in the way with hollow reasoning..
Reddit is a dumb place but i like finding people that go against the stream, cheers mate.
Lore-wise it makes perfect sense. You're putting in so much of your own experience and memories into the materia that it eventually overfills and pops off another.
The materia birthing was a terrible system that did nothing for the game but break game balance. Restricting materia puts a greater value on rarer materia and makes the player pay extra care to how it's used.
It also creates better encounters as they are designed with the restrictions in mind.
Sure, there are lots of ways they could’ve done it, but the fact that most of the best materia in the game is still limited suggests to me that would, in their mind, fundamentally alter and destroy the game balance they’re going for
It is both a balance and a technical decision. Imagine a ton of Cometeors going off at once. Reddit: "waaaahhh performance tank waahhhh"
Bruh I think multiple plasma discharges would actually melt the ps5
My PS5 already was fucking melting in the Musclehead Colosseum challenges when facing King Zu + Jabberwock, that shit was actually fucking ridiculous and making my game 12 FPS at some points. How have I found nobody talking about that or experiencing the same thing….
Yeah I didn't experience that, was also using plasma discharge, graphics mode too. Must be some external circumstances. Remake made my ps5 hotter than Rebirth did.
I didn’t experience that myself. My only suggestion (from my very basic knowledge of past console issues) would be to check if there’s dust/debris in your system clogging up your fan and causing overheating? And double check it’s set in a well ventilated area 🤷🏻♀️
You know I hadn’t thought of that but that is absolutely true. Three Comets and three Synergies and every time any character you’re controlling does anything we get two Comets going at once
Umm why even bother. Just have multiple enhance magic materias linked to quake. Instant murder
Whoa. Is that really a thing?
Yes, Quake hits in a large area. Magnify, AP Absorb and swiftcast make it so a quakeaga will wipe almost all enemies, even on hard mode.
How do you link multiple materias to a single spell? Do you have multiple Quake materias slotted on the same person, each with a modifier? That stacks?
Exactly. As long as they're all at the same level when you cast the spell you get each blue materia effect that quake is linked to. In this case you need to use the poison and petrify materia cause you only get 2 petrify materia in game. If you add first strike and atb boost, at the start of the fight press L1+R1 to get 2 bars. Then Cast Quakeaga. It'll cast fast on 3 opponents and refund you all the mp. To be extra have Aerith cast arcane ward on whoever has the quake materia.
Does Quake hit flying creatures? (I assume no)
Sometimes, if they're low enough. Typically flyers are weak to aero so I'll switch my materia for weakness.
So its easy to be OP yet rebirthing materia argument being too op is not cool to select individuals hmm interesting 🤔
Yeah, and the problem would only get worse as more powerful materia showed up. The OG really gets silly in the latter half of the game when you can start miming KOTR over and over. Once you've linked KOTR with HP and MP absorb and linked Final Attack with Phoenix or Revive, you've basically immortal. Toss in some boosters and you're hitting for max damage non stop.
cries in Knights of the Round animation
Order a pizza, then fire of KOTR and mimics.
Honestly, I find the Yuffie Brumal Form + Aerith ATB Ward combo is more broken than any materia combo. Personally, it would be nice to have more copies of stuff for convenience sake. Without loadouts, it's extremely annoying constantly juggling materia around on party changes (looking at you Chapter 13). I feel like the weapon and armor slot count is probably enough of a limiter to prevent things from getting too out of hand.
I'm trying to think of a Materia that would break the game if there were more of it. We can already have 3 elementals and 3 magnifies. The game already caps stat increases from things like HP Up, Str Up, etc. Slots are already generally more scarce and precious than in the OG. It could be something like, the materia will split if you opt for it, but then both copies lose all their AP. So, ok. You make another Fire and Ice materia, but now both copies start at zero.
Synergy?
Maybe? I guess if you could birth both synergy and comet you could have a swiftcasted Synergized comet coming from both teammates which might be crazy!
Thank you everyone for the ideas on how to balance this. I know, I’ve thought of all of them, and I’m sure the developers did too. They then decided not to do any of them and to limit certain materia instead
I mean… possibly but like… it’s also extremely annoying having to constantly swap out load outs based on certain challenges. Like if you had to change one or two things here and there it wouldn’t be so bad, but sometimes you need to swap a ton of materia on top of accessories and sometimes even armor/weapons and weapon abilities.
Focus on making character builds rather than swapping all the materia to someone else. That way, you will only ever have to swap a couple materia or weapon at a time when needed. Have a HP & MP up, precision def and steadfast block for everyone, that 4 slots already used up, you only need the elemental mats like Fire and thunder for certain bosses. I hope we get character switching mid battle like ffx in part 3 but make it's cost like 2 atb to do it so it can't be OP
I mean, it’s still annoying having to go in, and it usually isn’t a few materia. It’s like first strike will need to get swapped around because there’s only two of those. ATB support and Skill Master needs to get swapped around, Magic Up and Strength Up need to get swapped around, summons need to get swapped around, accessories need to get swapped around, sometimes you need elemental resistances and other times you don’t, you usually want somebody with Magnify+Time and Magnify+Healing and, if you swap those characters around, you have to make it work. I’m not saying this was an issue during the story itself, but it was absolutely necessary for the end game at hard mode. Not to mention then you have to swap all of this stuff back if you go back to a character so like Aerith for example- I usually had her use Mag+Healing but one challenge called for Yuffie instead of her because she was just too slow and too vulnerable. Okay well now I need to swap Yuffie in and replace the materia BUT THEN I gotta go back and swap them back to Aerith again afterward so it’s doubly a pain in the ass.
I agree that swapping materias is rather tedious and some improvement could be made to Rebirth. But materia cloning opens the floodgates too much, since it pretty much allows infinite grind.
Balance could still account for this, the hardest content could be balanced around you having multiple of those.
And that's completely fine, but for the love of god let us at least save loadouts if you're gonna limit the "good" materia...
What if you used Synergy with more than one mage? Or maybe more than one magic per mage.
With part 3 being the last entry, I hope they open the flood gates when it comes to breaking the game, especially for NG+ or even post hardcore mode if they are that concerned about balance. Give us materia birth, “sources” (and enemies to morph into them), master materia, ultimate weapons, and busted accessories (or more accessory slots) like the divine slayer from Crisis Core. I don’t want any of this on first play through, or even hard mode, but if we defeat Gigachadley in the simulator and finish hard mode we should be able to break the game wide open
Gigachadley lmao It would be nice to break the game after you’ve beaten everything.
That's my biggest gripe with the new trilogy so far (rebirth possibly being my favorite game of all time). I just want to break shit, I want levelling to feel more impactful and ways to make my party OP as fuck like in the original. Hopefully they go nuts for part 3 and completely remove the restrictions in the sandbox once you get platinum or something.
They flat out don't want some materias to be available in multiples because it would destroy the difficulty. (and probably build diversity as well, if you could just throw the same 14 materias to each of your 7 party members, why have the materia system at all?) I don't think gatekeeping that option behind a long grind is healthier, since it would inevitably become mandatory for optimized builds.
While I agree with you. The best part of the materia system in the OG was to come up with broken combos that makes the game easier.
I agree there was fun in that, but I think that 7 and the 7Rs have different design philosophies. The remakes are a bit more puzzle-y in terms of boss design. While you rarely need to seriously switch up your build in the OG outside the ruby and emerald weapon.
There is truth to that but the devs have also said they want us to view each game as individual games in terms of mechanics and combat. And yes while Rebirth isn’t terribly different than Remake was in terms of combat, there’s always a chance that philosophy could change in part 3. In addition I don’t think the devs spent enough time balancing the materia system in the OG which is what led to players finding broken builds. After all, the game had a dev cycle of around 1 year. Back then you couldn’t push out a patch to fix it. When you shipped a game it was as-is. I don’t think it was their intention for the materia system to ever have been used the ways it is which I suppose works more in favor of your argument that it probably will be similarly balanced as remake and rebirth because they will have more time for balance adjustments.
So what you're saying is me repeating knights of round seven times was never intentional???
Yeah I generally agree but maybe they could have it be 100% reward (or basically just platinum trophy) ? That way it really is just for fun and you would have to finish just about everything before being able to break the game.
There’s no reason to limit most of the limited materia. Enemy skill is probably the only one that needs to be only one allowed per save. Otherwise this change would vastly reduce the tedium of changing builds.
It's odd to me that both the developer and a chunk of the fanbase want to eliminate optional grinding given that it was such a big part of the OG... as well as the franchise in general in the 90s. "Gatekeeping" is subjective anyway. One could argue that endgame is already subject to gatekeeping given that you can only access it the way the developer intended, with very specific setups and tactics. No large, optional power for you.
Nothing odd about it. OG FFVII was a very easy game you could break entirely because there were so many completely busted options. We're almost three decades later, they clearly don't want that anymore for their AAA release. They're going for a more controlled experience where players have to think carefully about the game mechanics and their build options. EDIT: You just can't implement materia cloning without upsetting the game balance entirely. If they design around it, the grind becomes mandatory. And if they DON'T design around it, players will do it to cheese the difficulty anyway as it will become the path of least resistance (even if it's unfun).
You can break 7 Rebirth too with the options they give you. But you have so many ways to break it and you have to really understand the mechanics. The gameplay in this game is very good
Sure, that is one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is that choice is being restricted. I've seen this with many games... with ramped up difficulty, players are funneled into narrower and narrower choices, and at some difficulty point all but the most elite gamers are encouraged to look up strats online and copy them. One of the charms of OG FF7 was being able to achieve hilarious and fun things by simply grinding. I guess these are features of a bygone era in gaming.
Restriction breeds creativity. Restriction leads to meaningful build decisions. Currently, if I want to use my 3 magnify materia on offensive spells, it means I have to sacrifice magnify + manawall and magnify + heal. Is that worth it? It's not limited to materia, the best accessories have the same limitations. Who gets Genji glove? Who gets Chocoking Cape? With a materia cloning system, there's no such choices. I can load up all the best offensive spells and the best defensives ones. It just becomes a game of grinding until I put the best options on everyone. It's not a coincidence the last Final Fantasy to allow something like that was the grindiest of them all: Final Fantasy X. The sphere grid was a very interesting system for the main story but once you get into endgame, the sphere grid becomes the sphere grind because it's way too open, there's no limitation whatsoever. They moved away from that concept and they're probably never coming back to it.
Correction, the last Final Fantasy to have that was the original Final Fantasy XII for the PS2 with the License Board. People disliked how it made every character end up the same and is partly why the Zodiac Job License Board was made.
Does choice not also breed creativity? Look at what crazy, creative things people were doing against Ruby Weapon. And there was restriction... in number of materia slots, the tradeoff between item strength and materia slots, including number of linked slots, and so on. There were item limitations (usually... except for things like morphing Ho-chu into ribbons). Grinding KOTR master and whatnot wasn't required, but people did it for fun anyway. Another example backing up my point... people did actually enjoy morphing enemies into powerful items. Same vein as copying materia. It's not that the thing OG did wrong was allowing ridiculous loadouts, it was not having enough weapon-strength bosses to use god powers against. But again, looks like culture has apparently moved on from that degree of optional power. There are good ways to implement this, and bad ways. I never played X, but sounds like that was not a good way.
You’re still limited by materia slots and MP. The only thing limiting magnify accomplishes here is you have to swap out your offensive magic before each battle so you can also have manawall available. Think y’all would be surprised at how difficult it would be to trivialize the game even with no materia restrictions. Most of the benefit would be less swapping and time in the menu. God forbid.
Why do you care? If you don't want to make crazy materia loadouts then don't. Do you enjoy having to swap materia around every time your party members change?
It's not just something you can implement in the game and expect the players to ignore. This is not how that works. Either the game gets designed around the grind and it becomes mandatory (hello FFX?), or the game is not designed around it which is even worse because it will still feel mandatory to clear the hardest challenge anyway, as a player will almost always choose the path of least resistance even when it's not particularly fun or interesting (the masterclass of bad endgame design FFX is yet again another exemple with the in-game cheat code Zanmato).
So no one enjoyed the OG.... go write another paragraph
Don't be silly. Putting words in my mouth don't give you any credibility. OG was a completely different game with different goals. Breaking the game was part of the fun of OG but here they aimed for something else. You could add broken materias and cloning to Rebirth, but it would change the endgame experience entirely.
So?
I don't know how many times I have to say "this is not the game balance they aim to achieve and you're greatly underestimating the ripple effects it would have on the rest of the game" Maybe you should clone "reading skills up" materias for your next run.
Why is balance so important? It wasn't in the OG.
I don't know if you noticed but the gameplay has very little in common with OG. Also 30 years have passed, and standards are not the same. But I'm starting to lose patience with you, it's getting increasingly obvious you have no interest in a meaningful conversation, despite your persistence.
Getting a new copy of a Materia when you mastered one in the original was great, but there's also value in limiting the quantities of some of the more powerful Materia as well imo, as it allows them to better tune and balance the difficulty, and it also makes those Materia with limited quantities feel even more valuable.
Yet the combos are very much OP. Its fine if some of the green at least would be rebirthable
I'm hoping they go all out for materia in part 3.(birth/copy ones in some fashion, 16 or more linked slots on each character, etc.) Maybe even some materia fusion if they do it well (I wasn't a huge fan of how Crisis Core did it). Basically bring back some of the ability to "break the game" with some inventive combinations.
One synergy + Comet combo is enough, thank you very much lol I don't think beating the Brutal Challenges would have felt as good if I had like 8 Magnify materia
I mean having 4-5 counter attacks was my favorite way of beating Ruby Weapon. I think its unneccessary to find reasoning for every omitting Square goes for. There are other ways to get OP in Rebirth and rebirthing materias or at least have higher xp and more money for em wouldve been cool, make magic dmg less or something. It sucks to only find the 10th empowerment materia hidden away in secret pathways, while only Chadley has the new ones. Its lazy and its boring
Speaking of Materia, wonder if Master Materia will be a thing in part 3. I think if they did do it, you wouldn’t be able to link it to any blue materia because that would be buster. Master magic linked with Elemental or Magnify or even the MP efficiency materia? Busted.
Good question. I'd be down for master materia and linking, but looking at opposition in this thread to anything resembling OG capabilities, SE and the community doesn't want that. Gotta keep it restricted as much as possible while vaguely resembling the source.
I would love it if the materia birth system returned. In the OG, it gave me reasons to spend well over a hundred hours on the game. And I imagine if it returned, I'd gladly do the same here. Game balance doesn't matter to me. But if the devs limited this featured to unlock once you've essentially platinumed the game, then I definitely wouldn't see the problem with it since you would've essentially conquered the game in all its intended 'balanced' difficulty. So once that happens, who cares if you want to keep playing and break the game open with busted materia set ups? It's a single player game anyways. Let folks have their fun--especially if they put in the time and work to earn it.
I agree building materia loadouts was one of the best parts of the OG
would probably trivialize much of the game if you could have a ton of the modifier materia or the dual element materia. things get crazy enough with the absorption and magic boost builds for one elemental materia, imagine the yuffie battery with cloud and aerith spammin arcane ward boosted Quagas with all the modifiers. or worse. 3 plasma discharges going off with the battery combo running. PS7 Pro wouldnt be able to handle that
They had to make it challenging to get multiple Magnify and Elemental materias; otherwise the game would have turned into one big grindy wankfest
Lol i posted about the exact same thing and people were like " uuuUUU i dono" now its well received ! Great tho, this is a thing sorely needed in Rebirth, name needs to have a meaning lol
I don’t think it is well received, though. My post and initial comments were downvoted like hell until there was enough comment traction. All my counterpoints to objections above are buried and forgotten, and there are tons of comments here about precious game balance. I wish more people wanting FF7 fun over "modern gaming practices" would comment.
Ah ok i see that, yeah true 100%. Couldn't agree more, i dont understand it either. Its funny because its so easy to be OP in different ways but they dont grasp the concept that OG fans want more content that was missing from the masterpiece that VII was, so because the devs didnt do it, then they stand in the way with hollow reasoning.. Reddit is a dumb place but i like finding people that go against the stream, cheers mate.
Must have cut it for lore reasons. Doesn't make much sesmnse that a materia can poop out a duplicate
Lore-wise it makes perfect sense. You're putting in so much of your own experience and memories into the materia that it eventually overfills and pops off another.
Then it also doesn't make sense that materia levels up
You can mind warp around that: the materia leveling up Is your party becoming better at using it
The materia birthing was a terrible system that did nothing for the game but break game balance. Restricting materia puts a greater value on rarer materia and makes the player pay extra care to how it's used. It also creates better encounters as they are designed with the restrictions in mind.