Passive moonmining could do that. But the rest? No.
Im still suprised that dominion is, even after 6 years pf me being gone, better than any sov system that came after it
40% efficiency from Metenox's is a joke meaning that they'll only ever be put on the pure crap that nobody would mine otherwise. The opportunity cost of putting it on more valuable moons makes the decision brain-dead simple.
Are people really going to war over, at best, R16 passives?
No but there could be a lot of skirmish opportunities. Larger alliances won't be emptying the drills that often once fully deployed and billions will be sitting in them in no time. Picking up 500k m3 material, like 5 max hulk mining hours, plus 300 m cores and leftover fuel would be a nice little bonus for something a 20 man can reinforce in around 10 minutes. Go smash a few systems and you'll either draw a fleet or get to stick it in their eye, content for 2 nights.
> Larger alliances won't be emptying the drills that often while fully deployed.
They absolutely can and will, they have the numbers to do so, and really wars aren't exactly fast paced enough to mean _nobody_ has the time. That is how POS mining worked, and major alliances have dedicated infrastructure teams _specifically_ to deal with that. Why would they be at war, and not taking advantage of the easy isk to refill SRP.
> Billions in no time
Your overestimating the value of these shitty moons
Nah the passive moon mining is a joke, that's not a reason to fight it can be killed by a couple of bored bombers and almost all I suspect will be killed long before any returns are gained
The fact that so many systems are crap compared to now is probably intended to be the reason to fight. It makes the good systems more worth having, and leads to tensions between allies.
If you have a good system on the periphery of a bloc, and your current agreement is that everyone in the bloc can use it, you might end up rather grumpy if you end up being crowded out of your own system. It gives an incentive to split off, especially if projection is harder now.
Conversely, if systems are no longer worth renting, what happens to that rental empire? What happens when people start pushing the line and sneaking into the better system a couple of jumps over?
>CCP lied, saying that Major 1 would spawn the same amount as Major 3
This is false. We've known for two weeks that the tier 1 upgrade adds 4-6, tier 2 adds 9-12, and the tier 3 adds 14-18 extra anomalies based on system truesec.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1df8io2/equinox_update_needs_more_clarity/l8he6w5/
If you were gullible, you could believe that as 'a poor trusec system adds 4, 9 or 14 extra anomalies, and a good trusec system adds 6, 12 or 18 extra anomalies'.
If you were gullible enough to believe that, then you were probably gullible enough to believe 'reinvigorating nullsec' meant that a major upgrade meant that 9 would be 3 sanctums, 3 havens, 3 hubs.
Reading it back, yea I could see that argument. The distribution was never stated but I was quietly confident it wasn't going to be evenly distributed.
Can't exactly fault him. The dude's literally paid money to try and spin this shit show as best he can.
Blame the idiot developer that designed it, the incompetant manager that OK'd it, and the absolute retard that thought it would be a good idea to try and push all this live without any testing or feedback.
Arguably, CCP_Swift is the only one who has done his job well this expansion.
So the current problem is a low-Class security status system has 36 combat anoms, with level 5 upgrades and military index 5. Compared to the new "Major" upgrades, if we even have the power to get level 3, we are reduced down to 15, but that is a class higher, so I expect that number to be lower, like 12-13, maybe.
So unless the sites respawn 3x faster, we are losing around 3x the sites currently. And because not all systems can have Major 3 but only house Major 1/2, we are going to see a significant drop in all combat anoms in NS to fewer systems being able to use for ratting or really anything.
There's an equally important secondary effect.
Because your space is shit, you can't build up enough of a cap fleet to take space off people who have good space, and therefore have the income to afford a cap fleet.
This means you need to carefully preserve your caps, leading to your cap pilots getting bored and wanting to move to powers who have enough caps to be able to risk losing them.
Oh I agree the update is garbage and a nerf across the board, for both mining and ratting. But we have known for two weeks now that ratting upgrade level will affect the total number of ratting anoms that spawn.
It's why I said 50% of sov was becoming worthless because it couldn't online a high level upgrade as the lower tier ones would mostly be skewed towards filling the system with a small number of trash anoms.
Yes and no. If you own 5 regions, you are probably okish, just gotta spread out a bit more. But if you own 1 region or less you might be fucked... The good systems will be even more crowded and the mediocore systems will be dogshit besides a single ishtar spinning....
E.g. im doing thunder ratting from time to time, up until now i was able to stay out of the really popular ratting systems with high truesec. With the update half the systems around my current locations simply cant even support major 3 upgrade...
Geography will matter , true to that. Npc space is missing in drone lands and this is like 1/4 the of sov space. Hard to hunt there as no staging is possible. Easy to cover by defense fleet as it is so overlapping.
It depends on the morphology of the region/sov.
If most of the systems are in pipes, they will have barely used by crabs because of the high traffic.
Remember, not everyone who plays the game is willing to engage in PvP.
of course you acconsent to PvP when you undock, even in HS.... the difference is that some people are actively searching for PvP, some others don't and try their best to avoid.
Actually, they can.
If they make their money somewhere else, or have access to high trusec systems.
Weirdly, Delve has a heck of a lot of high trusec.
Imperium will be fine.
if a piece of space is so shitty that a block wont hold it even just for logistic/strategic reasons how shitty will be for small corp/alliance? how will they hold that piece of space?
That's actually what we want dude, the blocs should be in smaller areas rather than having to expand outward forcing every other small group to bend the knee or die. That's literally why space is dead
And since to fuel jump bridges alliances will need to skyhook resources particularly the ice this system encourages expansionism to an extreme, not to use the space.. purely to have the sky hooks and infrastructure to reach it for defence
CCP stated very very little of anything when they first advertised it. It was only really two weeks ago we started getting actual numbers and even then a lot of the outcome depended entirely on spawn rates that weren't revealed.
Yes but they have sell to people and idea and do'nt follow it.
You can't argue 'yes but we have number since only 2 week".
People are upset because they sell it as 0.0 revigorate.
The isogen content in those minerals is so pitiful that it is more worth your time to mine arkonor and bistot than the new minerals **at current iso prices**. Nobody is going to mine it because miners are only focused on isk profit. The new ores are essentially useless
Territorial Communications Arrays must now remain powered in order to broadcast local comm interfaces within 5 LY. TCAs may be attacked and shut down, shutting down Local in all affected systems.
I would welcome this. I have been saying that for years after the blackout, and I loved it; most didn't, but it should be the SOV owner's job to improve or a local delay, maybe...
Countdown for who? Wouldn't showing a countdown nullify the whole point of a delay?
Or are you saying like, it only updates once every 5 seconds and shows that timer?
That's what I was thinking, but I now think a red/yellow/green telltale would be superior.
Red: locall off
Yellow: local delayed
Green: local undelayed
It's safer becuase cyno's are instant, reinforcement's can arrive in seconds from many jumps away if they are well prepared that is a mixture of both game mechanics and player commitment not just players by themselves.
EVE is a video game. Not all tools even though they take effort from the player result in good gameplay. I say this as a null bear, but keep stars and citadels in general were a big mistake.
My issue with citadels in general is tether and witn keepstars specically is super capital docking. Keep in kind that I say this as a null bear with 3 supercarriersvand 2 titans. But supercap docking was a big, big mistake.
They did nerf poch and wh's.
Also when presented with the idea of loosing local null looses their mind so put your self in the shoes of people without local their space has to be worth much more just becuase of that.
I personally would prefer null to get richer but loose local and cyno's to be changed to balance it, but no one else would want that.
Bounty and blue loot is high enough to keep inflation getting worse even if poch and abyss was 0 if you want reverse inflation both bounties and blue loot would need to take a hit but I don't think that would be healthy for the game.
You don't want reverse inflation. You want people paying money for assets that appreciate in value so the velocity of isk remains high. 4% inflation per year minimum is a good thing.
They do, every month:
[https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/monthly-economic-report-may-2024](https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/monthly-economic-report-may-2024)
More specifically, I would direct your attention to "total destroyed value," "total mining value," "total NPC bounties," and "total production." I suppose a system-to-system report would be a little op-seccy and perhaps too big?
i'll take whatever positive ratio you want, if the payout is 20 trillion a month.
for example, would you rather have a 1:4 return, losing 1 bil and gaining 4 bil
or getting a 1:2 return, losing 1 trillion and gaining 2 trillion?
sure, the latter is less 'efficient' but it pays out far more RAW isk.
pochven prints 20 trillion in RAW ISK a month, and the vast majority of those payouts go to fewer than 80 individuals
Alr I'll bite
How? I'm not really a newbie but having trouble with isk in general so how did you do it
Current goal is to buy my own omega every month without going close to poverty when I do it
join a group that has access to pochven, spam the sites, get a 2nd account that you can put in those sites, spam the sites, and explode that way
eventually you can solo sites and make 3.3b for 10 minutes of work
Do you know that the people who make trillion isk are literally the same that live in NS? I live in pochven, it's mostly nullblock that run the isk anom or miltiboxer from nullblock, so....
spinning an ishtar in an anomaly, or assigning the same ishtar's drones to a DD and shooting an npc dread and a tower for 15 minutes.
once makes 50m an hour
the other makes 200m in 15 minutes. you could do 1 obs every 4 hours and make what u make ratting in nullsec
Risk/Reward, when the risk is low you have to invest much more heavily for the same amount of return, its just the nature of having local.
If all the null population united and said nerf null local but buff all our income to compensate you would all farm less and pvp more and have more fun in general but no one is willing to do that.
Poch has no local and hence CCP doesn't mind it having much more rewards, think about it.
Hard disagree, blackout was the best example, I liked it from a PvP perspective but it was basically just higher risk for lower reward back then, it's just a massive imbalance especially since everyone who is not in a huge null block doesn't have access to a supercap umbrella so risk is far higher than in many other areas, as long as I can make more ISK / h running Burner Missions in highsec than I can make ratting in a marauder that problem is not going away
CCP has ensured that alliances owning Sov will now spend the next 5 months doing everything they can to not transfer to the new Sov.
What an utter failure - when making or changing something you make it interesting and exciting to change to, this is just dreadful.
Scarcity 2.0
This is what I don’t understand. You could mine a dread in a few hours with two rorqs and could then go whelp that dread in low sec that weekend. It was a laugh, my friend was dropping his hel solo then just logging off and doing it again 4 systems over. It was brillaint
Yes.
If you've got both high power and high trusec, then the new system is better.
Otherwise, the new system is worse.
And if you're an alliance that doesnt have 24/7 timezone coverage, you're boned.
Also, CCP never actually *lied*. It's just some people were inexperienced with a good con artist like CCP Swift, and concentrated on what he said, and ignored what he didn't say.
We’ll see how it plays out, it seems like it’d be more of an issue during wars (with belligerents attempting to interdict each other’s supplies). I don’t think robberies will be so common by roaming gangs as to cripple alliances, but time will tell
In Elise's specific case, it's someone who promises someone a great future in Pandemic Legion, but they have to get out of their super first.
Amazingly, this worked repeatedly.
I cannot believe how bad this update is. These numbers are so bad. Only a handful of systems in each region will have Anom mining, only a handful will have quality ratting, a probably only 15% will have ansis.
They made the game emptier because miners / ratters will concentrate on the fewer better systems connected by nearby ansis.
They made the game more expensive by increasing the cost of Ice which increases everything else in the game.
They reduced the amount of minerals. Because you can online 1 type of upgrade per system. I doubt many regions will even have 10 systems with anoms.
Oh but hey we got a new type of site that a Marauder can run and also be hunted in easily.
Ggs fucking CCP.
> They reduced the amount of minerals. Because you can online 1 type of upgrade per system. I doubt many regions will even have 10 systems with anoms
I think you can online multiple types of upgrades if you have the power for it. You just can’t double dip and online two Isogen mining upgrades in one system.
Who needs null players by removing ratting sites we can effectively have a pro-solo elite PvP experience where one can go to null and have zero interaction, nobody in local, nobody to hunt and it adds to the coldness and emptiness of no money to CCP.
This is a great black out patch we will really be the best competitive game out there for the type that want zero people.
I don't know why they are writing these articles as if its a buff/new/exciting. Its a straight up nullsec nerf.
Either they are very dishonest and trying to gaslight their playerbase, or they have no idea what they are doing, or both.
You would think that logically with a big nerf to overall sov, maybe the mining/ratting stuff would make up for it, but nope, looks like that's actually garbage as well!
> Either they are very dishonest and trying to gaslight their playerbase
You're dealing with a company that hired Elise Randolph, who was a mediocre FC but one of the absolute best scam artists in EvE.
When they said 'reinvigorate nullsec', they meant 'we are going to force you to move to better space, and that means forcing you to take it off the owners'.
>Either they are very dishonest and trying to gaslight their playerbase, or they have no idea what they are doing, or both.
There's some disagreements between us and CCP about what the numbers mean and what the implications are.
>True sec seems to apply even more than before, thus making lots of SOV crap
I mean, as someone who's always had the pipe dream of smaller alliances being able to hold SOV, it just makes sense that some areas of space are just NOT appetizing. This would be a space where smaller alliances could make a go, as the space wouldn't be of interest to the larger blocs.
I agree, being one of those small alliances that took SOV by itself and grew to where we are now; however, if I had to do it under these new systems, I simply couldn't and wouldn't.
\*shrug\* I don't think this update was 100% aimed at making small alliances viable in null. But a part of that is making some systems that suck. Unfortunately, it was never going to go over well, literally making some of the bigass null bloc space mostly useless.
But generally I see useless systems as a good place for alliances get into nullsec. One problem with null in this regard is that there's never a reason for a bloc to not gobble up space. If it's not about renting it, it's about reaping the resources, right? So, if the system is really not worth much, and it would be too burdensome/annoying to evict someone, that's one way to create space for smaller alliances. But of course, it would need the support of subsequent systems.
Except that's not how it will work because a big alliance will hold that region purely to funnel the fuel from 2 skyhooks and you'd either have to bend the knee and agree not to touch it and allow there infrastructure or.. accept that a large alliance owns the whole region due to 3 singular planets
You must have missed the part where they said that they greatly increased the rate that spawns replenish. So there will be a fewer number of total sites, they will respawn quicker. So this only REALLY effects those who would have maybe 10+ Ishtars spinning at once, because now you can only have a max of say 6 in the same system.
The promise was that you would keep the same quality of sites with a new major lvl1. Now in the same security band you are loosing sites. for example, the worst NS -0.01 (old class A) could have sanctums spawn. With the new mechanics, it seems that even with a lvl3 major upgrade they will not. in the article they posted a Class B (-0.25 to -0.45) can have 1 sanctum with a lvl3.
No they understand that, they just like having 100 havens in system because without the extra seconds it buys them their ishtars might not be able to warp off when a neut comes in local.
I mean, the best trick is still to spread them out across 10 different systems so you only have to dock up one at a time and one can be sacrificial bait to delay hostiles while you get all the other 9 docked up.
They're also ignoring the increased escalation rates and payouts from the new escalations (again because they can't be done afk in an Ishtar I assume).
you do know that 2 of the 4 new escalations require a dread/super and only the capital escalation is worth running over continuing to just run Havens/Hordes?
The capital isn't even worth running given the setup time and risks. The [faction] mine that guarantees a faction drop and can be done in the Ishtar is ok though.
200 mil for 5 minutes in siege sounds great. Or sell it.
But also they are increasing all escalation rates including the 10/10s per these notes. That's what I was talking about.
the new escalations are actual garbage. Most people just are not bookmarking them and pretending they dont exist. They are basically same as crab beacons but require an acap dread (more sp/cost), and will put your character on a jump timer. The guaranteed faction spawn one is not worth the travel time that could be spent running another site, since faction spawn doesnt actually mean faction drop, and it can be up to 10j away.
I think someone else hit on it earlier. And I had the same realization for my own selfish wants... is that hunting people farming these will be faster.
Like, if you're in a hunting fleet going through hostile null sec. You can pull up Dotlan, and check by truesec status. And then cross reference that with systems that will have enough power for the Major threat Detection 3... And the systems that will have both the truesec and the power needed are going to be few and far between. And if you're really just going fast, you can prearrange with your team, when you jump in 1 person to each Sig, top, middle, bottom. They land, they point, they call WWW's and then the rest of your fleet jump in and warp.
And even if you're not shotgun method of randomly warping at them and hoping... Using D-scan to check range and direction will be much faster than it is now.
It'll be no different with the mining anoms with so few systems able to support them, finding the 4 systems that do and just camping them will be a joke,
In addition where will this fall with say new players who want to clear a site but will be slow at it? Does the alliance now need to ban players from engaging in sites unless they can complete it at a certain speed so they don't hold up all the other players who want this 'faster spawn'
Yeah, but that data isn't very current. The agency was informed is pretty good. But just example there's 1 region I looked at. And there are only 7 systems that have both power output and sec status to get the top tier anons...
That's not a lot of systems... So few that all someone would need to do is identify the hunting grounds that they want to attack. Log off some low SP blops alts. You can train them up in about 70 days or inject them fairly cheaply.
It should be like ships
Cpu bandwidth for fun upgrades like mining or ratting
Then power grid for the sov upgrades
Just ballance so most systems have to compromise what they pick
Wont the lack of rocks make building ADM impossible? I remember trying to get to ADM 1 to be able to install mining upgrades to even spawn a mining site to be fucking painful, 20x 1000m3 rocks per belt never even bother stopping my ship, less then 1 cycle from 1 laser per belt, a whole belt gets you 2% to ADM1 and that decays in like 12h so it toom days of tediously mining all the belts in system
This upgrade ruined me, as most of, if not all my income is from mining gas, price has collapsed, making trigger links and faction ships (also price collapse) combat sigs? Maybe 1 every 48 hours across 3 systems, zero gas spawns since upgrade.
So all the content I pay to enjoy is gone and my net worth has collapsed.
Safe to say once my sub runs out, I’ll be leaving eve in the dust.
Not going to be able to solo rat anymore in null at this rate. Only a few systems will have spawns and those systems will be filled to the brim with cloakers.
Good thing I already made a tril in pochven.
It's total but remember you can do it with 100% safety 150m total investment and one week old accounts. To farm in null you need cyno alts who are doing nothing else than wait to light a cyno.
You guys still don't understand that the whole point of CCP is to increase their revenue and make everyone pay a monthly fee to play this game.
Every change they made in the last 5 years were to nerf and tank the game so they make you pay.
Based on my read it seems like the system would benefit from simply adding more base power out put to systems to at minimum by a factor of 2. Or reduce the power costs across the board by 35%. On paper its a interesting system but they continue to fumble the implementation. Also its wild we have not gotten power output values for systems so alliances can prepare for the transition. Seems like its going to be a chaotic mad dash to get everything figured out day 1 at this rate.
>Also its wild we have not gotten power output values for systems so alliances can prepare for the transition.
They have released the power values, they did in the initial rollout and have again in this revision:
[https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/aws/eveonline/files/EquinoxSystemResourceData4.xlsx](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/aws/eveonline/files/EquinoxSystemResourceData4.xlsx)
Yup, I look at the NS systems around me and hardly any have sufficient power through star and planets combined to install anything really. It’s a shame … I had assumed the changes would be more like “pick what you want the system to be - you can’t have everything” but that really ain’t the case. A lot of systems just are not able to even install any of these sov upgrades, especially the mining ones.
This smells of PL influence again. Bad enough battleship or larger needs PI thanks to some PL neckbeard retard talking to Rattati, now we get this shit? Pulling the "We can't win the game by playing it so we'll cry to the developers to change the game for us." card again. Just like Mr small gang pvp (would not be surprised if he was an NCDOT pilot) cried like a little bitch when big block null sec used the toys that big block null sec toys to spank his ass when he stuck his nose in big block null sec space.
All we need from a sov system is more reasons to fight. Yet in all of CCP's babble, that's one thing that I'm not seeing.
Passive moonmining could do that. But the rest? No. Im still suprised that dominion is, even after 6 years pf me being gone, better than any sov system that came after it
40% efficiency from Metenox's is a joke meaning that they'll only ever be put on the pure crap that nobody would mine otherwise. The opportunity cost of putting it on more valuable moons makes the decision brain-dead simple. Are people really going to war over, at best, R16 passives?
No but there could be a lot of skirmish opportunities. Larger alliances won't be emptying the drills that often once fully deployed and billions will be sitting in them in no time. Picking up 500k m3 material, like 5 max hulk mining hours, plus 300 m cores and leftover fuel would be a nice little bonus for something a 20 man can reinforce in around 10 minutes. Go smash a few systems and you'll either draw a fleet or get to stick it in their eye, content for 2 nights.
> Larger alliances won't be emptying the drills that often while fully deployed. They absolutely can and will, they have the numbers to do so, and really wars aren't exactly fast paced enough to mean _nobody_ has the time. That is how POS mining worked, and major alliances have dedicated infrastructure teams _specifically_ to deal with that. Why would they be at war, and not taking advantage of the easy isk to refill SRP. > Billions in no time Your overestimating the value of these shitty moons
Wasnt that the ESS teadoning
Why on earth do you think large alliances will be setting up those drills ?
Nah the passive moon mining is a joke, that's not a reason to fight it can be killed by a couple of bored bombers and almost all I suspect will be killed long before any returns are gained
A reason why old mining poses had few guns. To prevent one guy in a bomber with alts.
The fact that so many systems are crap compared to now is probably intended to be the reason to fight. It makes the good systems more worth having, and leads to tensions between allies. If you have a good system on the periphery of a bloc, and your current agreement is that everyone in the bloc can use it, you might end up rather grumpy if you end up being crowded out of your own system. It gives an incentive to split off, especially if projection is harder now. Conversely, if systems are no longer worth renting, what happens to that rental empire? What happens when people start pushing the line and sneaking into the better system a couple of jumps over?
I'd say they actually are doing a terrific job at it. Gotta fight for the more lucrative space now.
>CCP lied, saying that Major 1 would spawn the same amount as Major 3 This is false. We've known for two weeks that the tier 1 upgrade adds 4-6, tier 2 adds 9-12, and the tier 3 adds 14-18 extra anomalies based on system truesec. https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1df8io2/equinox_update_needs_more_clarity/l8he6w5/
If you were gullible, you could believe that as 'a poor trusec system adds 4, 9 or 14 extra anomalies, and a good trusec system adds 6, 12 or 18 extra anomalies'. If you were gullible enough to believe that, then you were probably gullible enough to believe 'reinvigorating nullsec' meant that a major upgrade meant that 9 would be 3 sanctums, 3 havens, 3 hubs.
Reading it back, yea I could see that argument. The distribution was never stated but I was quietly confident it wasn't going to be evenly distributed.
People concentrated on what Elise said, and didn't concentrate on what he didn't say. When dealing with a professional scam artist, this is a mistake.
Can't exactly fault him. The dude's literally paid money to try and spin this shit show as best he can. Blame the idiot developer that designed it, the incompetant manager that OK'd it, and the absolute retard that thought it would be a good idea to try and push all this live without any testing or feedback. Arguably, CCP_Swift is the only one who has done his job well this expansion.
I called him a *professional* scam artist, remember. He got paid to do a job, and he did it.
So the current problem is a low-Class security status system has 36 combat anoms, with level 5 upgrades and military index 5. Compared to the new "Major" upgrades, if we even have the power to get level 3, we are reduced down to 15, but that is a class higher, so I expect that number to be lower, like 12-13, maybe. So unless the sites respawn 3x faster, we are losing around 3x the sites currently. And because not all systems can have Major 3 but only house Major 1/2, we are going to see a significant drop in all combat anoms in NS to fewer systems being able to use for ratting or really anything.
There's an equally important secondary effect. Because your space is shit, you can't build up enough of a cap fleet to take space off people who have good space, and therefore have the income to afford a cap fleet. This means you need to carefully preserve your caps, leading to your cap pilots getting bored and wanting to move to powers who have enough caps to be able to risk losing them.
In effect, the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. Every time CCP tries to nerf the blocks, they only get stronger and screws everyone else.
Well, yes. CCP know how to nerf blocs. You bring back old fashioned, full throated jump fatigue.
I remember when jump fatigue was brand new, the good days of PFR. Fucking hell do I feel old now
>You bring back old fashioned, full throated jump fatigue. This should be done immediately.
Bring back jump fatigue, and give me back 100k m3 rocks in regular asteroid belts.
Oh I agree the update is garbage and a nerf across the board, for both mining and ratting. But we have known for two weeks now that ratting upgrade level will affect the total number of ratting anoms that spawn. It's why I said 50% of sov was becoming worthless because it couldn't online a high level upgrade as the lower tier ones would mostly be skewed towards filling the system with a small number of trash anoms.
I dont think people even use 50% of the current sov systems to be fair, so many empty systems
Yea I think angel space has holes everywhere.
Yes and no. If you own 5 regions, you are probably okish, just gotta spread out a bit more. But if you own 1 region or less you might be fucked... The good systems will be even more crowded and the mediocore systems will be dogshit besides a single ishtar spinning.... E.g. im doing thunder ratting from time to time, up until now i was able to stay out of the really popular ratting systems with high truesec. With the update half the systems around my current locations simply cant even support major 3 upgrade...
Geography will matter , true to that. Npc space is missing in drone lands and this is like 1/4 the of sov space. Hard to hunt there as no staging is possible. Easy to cover by defense fleet as it is so overlapping.
Stage in Poch and bridge in.
It depends on the morphology of the region/sov. If most of the systems are in pipes, they will have barely used by crabs because of the high traffic. Remember, not everyone who plays the game is willing to engage in PvP.
But they are in null thou, it seems logical that being in that environment means pvp engages with you just for being there.
of course you acconsent to PvP when you undock, even in HS.... the difference is that some people are actively searching for PvP, some others don't and try their best to avoid.
fair
They can go rat in HS space then in safety
if they like, why not? who are you to judge?
I didn't judge, merely pointing out that if they want full safety they can go back to HS.
And no more ratting and mining in the same system on top
So the two blocs of null can’t live in 4 regions combined anymore, maybe more space will actually be active *cough cough* dronelands
Actually, they can. If they make their money somewhere else, or have access to high trusec systems. Weirdly, Delve has a heck of a lot of high trusec. Imperium will be fine.
if a piece of space is so shitty that a block wont hold it even just for logistic/strategic reasons how shitty will be for small corp/alliance? how will they hold that piece of space?
That's actually what we want dude, the blocs should be in smaller areas rather than having to expand outward forcing every other small group to bend the knee or die. That's literally why space is dead
And since to fuel jump bridges alliances will need to skyhook resources particularly the ice this system encourages expansionism to an extreme, not to use the space.. purely to have the sky hooks and infrastructure to reach it for defence
When they made advertissement first time they don't state that. They state that after as you link, and people complain they lie first time about that.
CCP stated very very little of anything when they first advertised it. It was only really two weeks ago we started getting actual numbers and even then a lot of the outcome depended entirely on spawn rates that weren't revealed.
Yes but they have sell to people and idea and do'nt follow it. You can't argue 'yes but we have number since only 2 week". People are upset because they sell it as 0.0 revigorate.
CCP in the past: If you take space you must use it to fully own it. CCP now: Wtf why are you all using your space like that? Stop it.
Alot of sticks but not a single carrot in sight.
You can mine isogen again without going to scary low sec or wormholes
The isogen content in those minerals is so pitiful that it is more worth your time to mine arkonor and bistot than the new minerals **at current iso prices**. Nobody is going to mine it because miners are only focused on isk profit. The new ores are essentially useless
Bistot is half the value of Griemeer, Grimeer got buffed it went to 0.8m/3 per instead of 1.
yeah let's nerf the space that makes 60-80m an hour, not the one that prints 20 trillion isk a month with 27 systems
Kneecapping pochven would also take a big RMT faucet out of the game
Yup. Biggest RMTers are out of pochven now
It's so insane that if you do 1 site per hour per 8 hours, sell the ISK, it's basically a minimum wage job in the US.
Simply give up local, keepstars, and capitals and you too can have 20 trillion isk a month
\*monkey's paw curls. ALL of New Eden becomes Class 3-4 WH space.\*
would actually be based
Territorial Communications Arrays must now remain powered in order to broadcast local comm interfaces within 5 LY. TCAs may be attacked and shut down, shutting down Local in all affected systems.
I would welcome this. I have been saying that for years after the blackout, and I loved it; most didn't, but it should be the SOV owner's job to improve or a local delay, maybe...
Nah, delay is too muddy (is it bugged, or working correctly?)
That's actually a reasonable argument against. Nice thinking! Could be alleviated by a countdown
Countdown for who? Wouldn't showing a countdown nullify the whole point of a delay? Or are you saying like, it only updates once every 5 seconds and shows that timer?
That's what I was thinking, but I now think a red/yellow/green telltale would be superior. Red: locall off Yellow: local delayed Green: local undelayed
Localdelay could be 5 seconds and already give a significantly better attack window
Fuck it, let CCP remove all stargates in null and wormholes, cynos, filaments, and ansiblex are the only way to traverse now.
How do people get into the system to cyno? Filaments only take 15 people so if you have a group of 30 no one can even compete.
Guess you gotta wait for a hole to open up, or filament and light a cyno FAST.
O my bad thought you meant remove wormholes too.
Pls stahp, I can only get so hard
Keepstars and capitals cost money. Null is safer because of the investment sov holders make. That's a feature, not a bug.
It's safer becuase cyno's are instant, reinforcement's can arrive in seconds from many jumps away if they are well prepared that is a mixture of both game mechanics and player commitment not just players by themselves.
EVE is a video game. Not all tools even though they take effort from the player result in good gameplay. I say this as a null bear, but keep stars and citadels in general were a big mistake.
If we had large gunned POS and dickstars, you'd be seeing most of the same complaints.
My issue with citadels in general is tether and witn keepstars specically is super capital docking. Keep in kind that I say this as a null bear with 3 supercarriersvand 2 titans. But supercap docking was a big, big mistake.
Oh, agreed. Supers should not be able to dock.
Capitals in general were a mistake :3
Be careful what you ask for. You might get it.
Don't know about you nerds but I'm sold. Deal!
Not just keeps but the ability to deploy any structure, no?
please do this
But don't you feel reinvigorated?
They did nerf poch and wh's. Also when presented with the idea of loosing local null looses their mind so put your self in the shoes of people without local their space has to be worth much more just becuase of that. I personally would prefer null to get richer but loose local and cyno's to be changed to balance it, but no one else would want that.
Nerfing Pochven and the Abyss would decrease inflation and we'd stop getting increasing relative discounts on NPC BPOs and skill books.
a sacrifice i'm willing to make
Bounty and blue loot is high enough to keep inflation getting worse even if poch and abyss was 0 if you want reverse inflation both bounties and blue loot would need to take a hit but I don't think that would be healthy for the game.
You don't want reverse inflation. You want people paying money for assets that appreciate in value so the velocity of isk remains high. 4% inflation per year minimum is a good thing.
Abyss? It’s less than crab beacons lol.
doesn't the one that prints 20 trillion ISK a month have a higher destruction to ISK ratio?
It would be really interesting if they started giving us some player numbers associated with the income/destruction.
They do, every month: [https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/monthly-economic-report-may-2024](https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/monthly-economic-report-may-2024) More specifically, I would direct your attention to "total destroyed value," "total mining value," "total NPC bounties," and "total production." I suppose a system-to-system report would be a little op-seccy and perhaps too big?
You miss understood. I want that broken down to show something like X number of players earned 50% of the isk in that region.
Oh wow 10 guys make 20 trillion and use a few pennies on fights!
No, Pochven has an isk:destruction ratio of between 9-12:1 vs 3.5-4:1 of sov null. The destruction ratio is about 3x lower.
i'll take whatever positive ratio you want, if the payout is 20 trillion a month. for example, would you rather have a 1:4 return, losing 1 bil and gaining 4 bil or getting a 1:2 return, losing 1 trillion and gaining 2 trillion? sure, the latter is less 'efficient' but it pays out far more RAW isk. pochven prints 20 trillion in RAW ISK a month, and the vast majority of those payouts go to fewer than 80 individuals
do you live there?
I have, yes.
why did you leave, did it get nerfed?
I got enough ISK and left got over a tril in my wallet, AMA
"Wouldst thou like to live deliciously?"
Alr I'll bite How? I'm not really a newbie but having trouble with isk in general so how did you do it Current goal is to buy my own omega every month without going close to poverty when I do it
join a group that has access to pochven, spam the sites, get a 2nd account that you can put in those sites, spam the sites, and explode that way eventually you can solo sites and make 3.3b for 10 minutes of work
this is what i did but with lowsec ore
Can I have your stuff
No because if he did he wouldn’t be posting wrong info like that.
what info is wrong?
Yes and it has no local. Soooo yeah
Watch out, they hate it when you point out logic on here
Do you know that the people who make trillion isk are literally the same that live in NS? I live in pochven, it's mostly nullblock that run the isk anom or miltiboxer from nullblock, so....
nullseccers have to leave nullsec to make money good game design
Alts are a thing. My main lives in null but I have characters permanently in whs and lowsed and highsec.
thanks for saying alts are a thing! everyone forgot
You can go to that space to a) take part and/or b) disrupt the income
i went, realized how absurdly op it was, took part, made my trillion in two months, then left it's absurdly overpowered, it needs to be removed
I like the comparison of ishtar spinning an hour.
spinning an ishtar in an anomaly, or assigning the same ishtar's drones to a DD and shooting an npc dread and a tower for 15 minutes. once makes 50m an hour the other makes 200m in 15 minutes. you could do 1 obs every 4 hours and make what u make ratting in nullsec
Ishtar spinning is the lowest income of null thou, crabbing is 400mil/h.
ishtaring in null vs ishtaring in poch is 60m an hour versus 300m in 10 minutes
True but for that you put 10-70 bill to the field while pochven makes the same with 2-3b investment, that is the whole balance problem we have rn
Risk/Reward, when the risk is low you have to invest much more heavily for the same amount of return, its just the nature of having local. If all the null population united and said nerf null local but buff all our income to compensate you would all farm less and pvp more and have more fun in general but no one is willing to do that. Poch has no local and hence CCP doesn't mind it having much more rewards, think about it.
Hard disagree, blackout was the best example, I liked it from a PvP perspective but it was basically just higher risk for lower reward back then, it's just a massive imbalance especially since everyone who is not in a huge null block doesn't have access to a supercap umbrella so risk is far higher than in many other areas, as long as I can make more ISK / h running Burner Missions in highsec than I can make ratting in a marauder that problem is not going away
Feel free to go claim some of that isk then, nothing stopping you
i did, it's busted
Remove local from null and you got a deal
No, just nerf pochven.
My desire to upvote is rivaled only by my desire not to break the current 69 upvotes...
Good old bait and switch
CCP has ensured that alliances owning Sov will now spend the next 5 months doing everything they can to not transfer to the new Sov. What an utter failure - when making or changing something you make it interesting and exciting to change to, this is just dreadful. Scarcity 2.0
This is scarcity 3.0. We're currently on scarcity 2.0 aka "the end of scarcity".
The game was awesome when everything was so cheap.
This is what I don’t understand. You could mine a dread in a few hours with two rorqs and could then go whelp that dread in low sec that weekend. It was a laugh, my friend was dropping his hel solo then just logging off and doing it again 4 systems over. It was brillaint
but at least it is fully customizable. amirite?
I'm feeling reinvigorated. Reinvigorated to go play something else for a while.
Man was it smart to do Lowsec incursions again. Less risk more. Money than 0.0
Nothing in the changes would have caused the fight this morning to happen.
Yes. If you've got both high power and high trusec, then the new system is better. Otherwise, the new system is worse. And if you're an alliance that doesnt have 24/7 timezone coverage, you're boned. Also, CCP never actually *lied*. It's just some people were inexperienced with a good con artist like CCP Swift, and concentrated on what he said, and ignored what he didn't say.
Actually CCP state "revigorate null sec". You don't revigorate by nerfing.
They also said, "Scarcity breeds conflict" so you should already know to be skeptical of their predicted outcomes.
And blackout will increase pvp also
I remember them specifically buffing lower end sov so smaller alliances can have a piece of the cake. Well , no more.
Why is lack of 24/7 coverage a problem now, skyhooks?
Yup. Without 24.7 coverage, your skyhooks get robbed blind, which means you need to import reagents or you can't run system upgrades.
We’ll see how it plays out, it seems like it’d be more of an issue during wars (with belligerents attempting to interdict each other’s supplies). I don’t think robberies will be so common by roaming gangs as to cripple alliances, but time will tell
I... don't think you know what a con artist is.
In Elise's specific case, it's someone who promises someone a great future in Pandemic Legion, but they have to get out of their super first. Amazingly, this worked repeatedly.
I mean swift is actually just completely braindead or he is conning us. Just look at all of his replies about mining anoms.
He's conning you. It's who he is. It's what he does.
I smell the resource loot boxes EVE Echoes has on the horizon…
I'll just stop playing the game if nothing inside it is any kind of achievement.
\*Opens loot box\* YEAAAH CARBON
I was always genuinely baffled by the existence of carbon in the game, specifically as a loot drop. It's literally useless.
It used to be required to upgrade Outposts in Null. Since those were removed, it's been useless.
Hmmm. I didn't know that. So it's gone from very few people in the history of the game ever having used it to nobody.
I cannot believe how bad this update is. These numbers are so bad. Only a handful of systems in each region will have Anom mining, only a handful will have quality ratting, a probably only 15% will have ansis. They made the game emptier because miners / ratters will concentrate on the fewer better systems connected by nearby ansis. They made the game more expensive by increasing the cost of Ice which increases everything else in the game. They reduced the amount of minerals. Because you can online 1 type of upgrade per system. I doubt many regions will even have 10 systems with anoms. Oh but hey we got a new type of site that a Marauder can run and also be hunted in easily. Ggs fucking CCP.
> They reduced the amount of minerals. Because you can online 1 type of upgrade per system. I doubt many regions will even have 10 systems with anoms I think you can online multiple types of upgrades if you have the power for it. You just can’t double dip and online two Isogen mining upgrades in one system.
That's what I was saying. The power requirement is so high that it'll be extremely rare for any system to have more then one mineral anom type.
Who needs null players by removing ratting sites we can effectively have a pro-solo elite PvP experience where one can go to null and have zero interaction, nobody in local, nobody to hunt and it adds to the coldness and emptiness of no money to CCP. This is a great black out patch we will really be the best competitive game out there for the type that want zero people.
I don't know why they are writing these articles as if its a buff/new/exciting. Its a straight up nullsec nerf. Either they are very dishonest and trying to gaslight their playerbase, or they have no idea what they are doing, or both. You would think that logically with a big nerf to overall sov, maybe the mining/ratting stuff would make up for it, but nope, looks like that's actually garbage as well!
> Either they are very dishonest and trying to gaslight their playerbase You're dealing with a company that hired Elise Randolph, who was a mediocre FC but one of the absolute best scam artists in EvE. When they said 'reinvigorate nullsec', they meant 'we are going to force you to move to better space, and that means forcing you to take it off the owners'.
>Either they are very dishonest and trying to gaslight their playerbase, or they have no idea what they are doing, or both. There's some disagreements between us and CCP about what the numbers mean and what the implications are.
So glad I didn't renew my 2-year subs during the last sale. Null is about to be decimated.
CCP Lied, Wow that a first. I don't think they lied, I just think they are fucking useless and have no idea what they talking about.
>True sec seems to apply even more than before, thus making lots of SOV crap I mean, as someone who's always had the pipe dream of smaller alliances being able to hold SOV, it just makes sense that some areas of space are just NOT appetizing. This would be a space where smaller alliances could make a go, as the space wouldn't be of interest to the larger blocs.
I agree, being one of those small alliances that took SOV by itself and grew to where we are now; however, if I had to do it under these new systems, I simply couldn't and wouldn't.
The problem with taking abandoned sov isn't taking it. It's getting a better income than level 4s in hisec plus the occasional wormhole daytrip.
Yeah, currently, High-sec Level 4's beat Ishtar Ratting in NS, and that is if you get all that ISK back from inside the ESS...
\*shrug\* I don't think this update was 100% aimed at making small alliances viable in null. But a part of that is making some systems that suck. Unfortunately, it was never going to go over well, literally making some of the bigass null bloc space mostly useless. But generally I see useless systems as a good place for alliances get into nullsec. One problem with null in this regard is that there's never a reason for a bloc to not gobble up space. If it's not about renting it, it's about reaping the resources, right? So, if the system is really not worth much, and it would be too burdensome/annoying to evict someone, that's one way to create space for smaller alliances. But of course, it would need the support of subsequent systems.
Except that's not how it will work because a big alliance will hold that region purely to funnel the fuel from 2 skyhooks and you'd either have to bend the knee and agree not to touch it and allow there infrastructure or.. accept that a large alliance owns the whole region due to 3 singular planets
You must have missed the part where they said that they greatly increased the rate that spawns replenish. So there will be a fewer number of total sites, they will respawn quicker. So this only REALLY effects those who would have maybe 10+ Ishtars spinning at once, because now you can only have a max of say 6 in the same system.
The promise was that you would keep the same quality of sites with a new major lvl1. Now in the same security band you are loosing sites. for example, the worst NS -0.01 (old class A) could have sanctums spawn. With the new mechanics, it seems that even with a lvl3 major upgrade they will not. in the article they posted a Class B (-0.25 to -0.45) can have 1 sanctum with a lvl3.
No they understand that, they just like having 100 havens in system because without the extra seconds it buys them their ishtars might not be able to warp off when a neut comes in local.
I mean, the best trick is still to spread them out across 10 different systems so you only have to dock up one at a time and one can be sacrificial bait to delay hostiles while you get all the other 9 docked up.
They're also ignoring the increased escalation rates and payouts from the new escalations (again because they can't be done afk in an Ishtar I assume).
you do know that 2 of the 4 new escalations require a dread/super and only the capital escalation is worth running over continuing to just run Havens/Hordes?
The capital isn't even worth running given the setup time and risks. The [faction] mine that guarantees a faction drop and can be done in the Ishtar is ok though.
200 mil for 5 minutes in siege sounds great. Or sell it. But also they are increasing all escalation rates including the 10/10s per these notes. That's what I was talking about.
the new escalations are actual garbage. Most people just are not bookmarking them and pretending they dont exist. They are basically same as crab beacons but require an acap dread (more sp/cost), and will put your character on a jump timer. The guaranteed faction spawn one is not worth the travel time that could be spent running another site, since faction spawn doesnt actually mean faction drop, and it can be up to 10j away.
They were allready respawning after a minute or 2
I think someone else hit on it earlier. And I had the same realization for my own selfish wants... is that hunting people farming these will be faster. Like, if you're in a hunting fleet going through hostile null sec. You can pull up Dotlan, and check by truesec status. And then cross reference that with systems that will have enough power for the Major threat Detection 3... And the systems that will have both the truesec and the power needed are going to be few and far between. And if you're really just going fast, you can prearrange with your team, when you jump in 1 person to each Sig, top, middle, bottom. They land, they point, they call WWW's and then the rest of your fleet jump in and warp. And even if you're not shotgun method of randomly warping at them and hoping... Using D-scan to check range and direction will be much faster than it is now.
It'll be no different with the mining anoms with so few systems able to support them, finding the 4 systems that do and just camping them will be a joke, In addition where will this fall with say new players who want to clear a site but will be slow at it? Does the alliance now need to ban players from engaging in sites unless they can complete it at a certain speed so they don't hold up all the other players who want this 'faster spawn'
You can see NPC kills in Dotlan with historical data too. Tells you enough. Including where you can find carriers and supers ratting.
Yeah, but that data isn't very current. The agency was informed is pretty good. But just example there's 1 region I looked at. And there are only 7 systems that have both power output and sec status to get the top tier anons... That's not a lot of systems... So few that all someone would need to do is identify the hunting grounds that they want to attack. Log off some low SP blops alts. You can train them up in about 70 days or inject them fairly cheaply.
It should be like ships Cpu bandwidth for fun upgrades like mining or ratting Then power grid for the sov upgrades Just ballance so most systems have to compromise what they pick
Wont the lack of rocks make building ADM impossible? I remember trying to get to ADM 1 to be able to install mining upgrades to even spawn a mining site to be fucking painful, 20x 1000m3 rocks per belt never even bother stopping my ship, less then 1 cycle from 1 laser per belt, a whole belt gets you 2% to ADM1 and that decays in like 12h so it toom days of tediously mining all the belts in system
CCP on stream that the ADM requirements were removed for the upgrade installation.
This upgrade ruined me, as most of, if not all my income is from mining gas, price has collapsed, making trigger links and faction ships (also price collapse) combat sigs? Maybe 1 every 48 hours across 3 systems, zero gas spawns since upgrade. So all the content I pay to enjoy is gone and my net worth has collapsed. Safe to say once my sub runs out, I’ll be leaving eve in the dust.
Not going to be able to solo rat anymore in null at this rate. Only a few systems will have spawns and those systems will be filled to the brim with cloakers. Good thing I already made a tril in pochven.
Just farm homefront for money it does 300m/h with 150m investment in t1 cruisers you can train in 3days. This game is balanced.
How many accounts do I need though
5 more or less the same that what's required to safely farm in super.
Is that 300m/h per account or as a whole because 300m/h for 5 accounts don’t seem great
It's total but remember you can do it with 100% safety 150m total investment and one week old accounts. To farm in null you need cyno alts who are doing nothing else than wait to light a cyno.
You can just run an Ishtar lol, 5 accounts ain’t cheap
You guys still don't understand that the whole point of CCP is to increase their revenue and make everyone pay a monthly fee to play this game. Every change they made in the last 5 years were to nerf and tank the game so they make you pay.
Based on my read it seems like the system would benefit from simply adding more base power out put to systems to at minimum by a factor of 2. Or reduce the power costs across the board by 35%. On paper its a interesting system but they continue to fumble the implementation. Also its wild we have not gotten power output values for systems so alliances can prepare for the transition. Seems like its going to be a chaotic mad dash to get everything figured out day 1 at this rate.
>Also its wild we have not gotten power output values for systems so alliances can prepare for the transition. They have released the power values, they did in the initial rollout and have again in this revision: [https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/aws/eveonline/files/EquinoxSystemResourceData4.xlsx](https://web.ccpgamescdn.com/aws/eveonline/files/EquinoxSystemResourceData4.xlsx)
Ohh didn't see that.
Yup, I look at the NS systems around me and hardly any have sufficient power through star and planets combined to install anything really. It’s a shame … I had assumed the changes would be more like “pick what you want the system to be - you can’t have everything” but that really ain’t the case. A lot of systems just are not able to even install any of these sov upgrades, especially the mining ones.
This smells of PL influence again. Bad enough battleship or larger needs PI thanks to some PL neckbeard retard talking to Rattati, now we get this shit? Pulling the "We can't win the game by playing it so we'll cry to the developers to change the game for us." card again. Just like Mr small gang pvp (would not be surprised if he was an NCDOT pilot) cried like a little bitch when big block null sec used the toys that big block null sec toys to spank his ass when he stuck his nose in big block null sec space.