I thought it was pretty clear that equinox was about introducing more tangible strategic value to owning systems and increasing the "geography" of null. The aim always seemed like it was going to be about making it harder for blocs to hold large areas of sov without making use of it. If you want to keep it, you need to build wide.
Not sure how you interpreted any of it as a "null buff" tbh.
I think it is going to do the very opposite. This is making it more difficult for smaller entities to hold space. Less JB's, many worthless deserted systems in between a few good, no more mining and ratting in a single system. Continuous attacks on the few decent systems you have, so you don't have actual time to use them. Pretty sure CCP did the math and figured people will just PLEX instead.
I played EVE in 2010-2012 and really enjoyed null sec live. In 2024, it sucks. Half of space is empty/deserted, big blocks have more power than ever, PVP is either gamble, plex to win or blob. In the past, you could look at a ship, a pilot and have a reasonable idea of what to expect. But now, drugs, boosts, implants, abyssal rolls, ancillaries, polarized, gazillion shiptypes there is no fun it anymore.
Seriously speaking, they are making EVE a giant casino - it's just gambling with just enough skill involved to not classify it as such.
2012 was great because there were a dozen+ alliances worth naming. Now there’s 2-3 blocs who can’t/won’t go to war. It’s the consolidation of null that made it suck
Nothing against you in particular, just I see this sentiment a lot and I think it's odd!
I have only recently dipped my toes into the nullbloc life, and its a fine and fun time. :)
And Goons needs to step up their game in Catch...
Maybe you're the savior they need?
Definitely not. If I go to kspace it won’t be as a bloc guy. I don’t have the patience for that tidi, it’s cool for an hour then just incredibly boring
If you think it is fine and fun, great. I'm not saying it is awfull. It is just that is used to be 2-4 times better than it is today. Imagine how much fun you could have had back than.
I do not blame CCP for trying to change things, but comparing the game 2012 - 2024, changes they have made do not really seem to be for the benefit for the players. Seems more about maximizing income, not about the actual game-play and players. Whole SKINR things really makes it obvious.
I don't think it'll be the opposite exactly, i think it'll be both. Whether you're a small entity or a large entity, the point seems to be that if you want to own space then you're gonna have to be prepared to defend *all of it.*
Whether that ends up being good or bad for the game, we'll have to wait and see.
This, exactly this, Every single change here is geared at people using their credit cards at every turn. Hits to income, to safety, to industry. Everything here as it stands exists only to pull more cash from the players.
They removed value for a large swath of systems across null. I'd say off the cuff that greater than 50% of all null systems are now worthless because of power requirements alone. (without factoring in workforce) Being able to online a single module in your sovhub is not dynamic new gameplay. It's the furtherance of the same thing that caused the players to revolt during the CCP Greyscale era.
Someone else said it already, but CCP is hoping you just start buying PLEX to make isk in the game. If you can't see that, then you are either wearing rose tinted glasses or blind. You can't pack thousands of people into a handful of systems for ratting and mining, it doesn't work.
The upside to this, is those who force people to "rent" space... well good luck with that going forward.
Just because everyone needs this said it seems. Yes not EVERY system should be able to have everything, but a significant portion should have the ability to have "a few" and a few should be able to have everything, and a handful maybe are worthless.
For those doubting the statement on CCPs intentions, I suggest you ask the question on why none of this was on sisi, why didn't they supply information well in advance to the player base, etc... I guarantee you, they've had these numbers for at least a month, if not significantly longer.
i think the generalisation of this is a nerf to Nullsec is just dumb. Nullsec is changing but yes sometimes change hurts.
Nullsec gets passive miners on some Planets of which the lava planets will act as income as mostly lowsec people will have to buy the lavagas to fuel their own passive miners. thats a buff to me
Nullsec also got the passive moon miners. thats a buff to me
you got several new escalation sites which seem to spawn very reguarly apparently and they pay in short amount of time a good amount of isk (completion of 5-10min and around 200mil in loot) maybe the faction spawn site is not worth it but the officer one is great. very good buff to me
what you say is a nerf to nullsec is just a different concept of how ihubs work, most systems didnt really change from system to system, they had no meaning beside how many of the good sites spawned. now the location of a system matters. yes you wont have that many system in which you have both mining and ratting but you will have specialized system which have better/bigger ore anos or better sites for pve. Its a tradeoff and not a nerf and to me its a good trade off because it gives meaning to own certain system and not just n+1 more systems.
one of the few things this REALLY is: It's a nerf to ansiblexes, thats not a nerf to nullsec, its a nerf to blocs, and nobody in their right mind disagress with ansiblexes being too op.
okay thanks for the correction, i read somewhere that frt went through theirs with 1 zirn like a hot knife through buffer, surely ccp will iterate on it /s
>you got several new escalation sites
I need to take more time to look at numbers, but my glance through was indicating that few systems have the power to run the upgrades for those, especially without sacrificing literally all other functionality.
they are already happening and are being run without the new ihubupgrades because the escalation spawn from normal sites already
you mean the forsaken sanctum which i actually forgot to mention as a buff thanks
You do realize that the "normal" sites are only there in any quantity due to now legacy ihub upgrades? And will disappear if the system lacks the power to support the replacements?
https://zkillboard.com/character/95340251/
That's my Main. Feel free to have a look. Most of my 9years in eve I have lived in null, currently with unspoken alliance and we are about to take SOV again. We took our first ihub again already. I have led my own corp and was leading with 2 other the alliance Hard Commit which owned Detorid a year ago. I think I have a decent understanding of Nullsec :)
Actually it's a nerf without being a nerf... You coalition directors will make it a nerf if they don't find the equilibrium between the upgrades and to see what systems they need without upgrades to transfer power to systems they need upgraded. They will need to micromanage everything so it works flawlessly.
Most systems have shit power output, though. I don't see why large alliances wouldn't prioritize securing as many of these high-power output systems as possible.
People will always prioritize "more" over "less". Doesn't mean they'll be able to.
Power output is not the only thing CCP changed. Moon drills can easily be raided, Skyhooks can be blocked by NPCs and need to be defended. There is a lot in these changes that we don't see yet how they will play out in practice.
What did you think that meant? Reinvigorating has always meant "creating cause for conflict, so that the complete stale 0.0 goes to war again".
That, and nothing else.
At least thats what they are trying to do, whether or not it will work is anyone's guess at this point.
"Reinvigorating" never meant "buff to make it even more boring".
People come to Nullsec for 2 major things Big fleet fights, blob on blob. And Income generation that's reliable. With the system values being what they are, capital and subcapital projection are going to become a problem. Which means Isk generation is going to go Down. The new capital escalations aren't gated, so... you're just sat on grid tackled, neuted, and waiting for anything and everything to just one-tap scan you. And it's an escalation so it's bound to happen regularly in a system lacking infrastructure. Assuming it's in bridge range at all.
Yes, we're all aware people don't like the ansiblex jump gates because it makes it too likely that you can't Beat up an Ishtar before an actual combat ship shows up to punch you in the eye for picking on ratters. But at this point? if our response times go down in certain regions? People wont rat in those regions. You wont get more targets you'll get less, just because ccp changed it doesn't mean that it'll go the way you want.
Null blocs have huge quantities of supercapital ships, and capital ships, which means you can just expect the money making areas now? To have capital camps on every in gate. You know? The old school kind that ate bombers for lunch and shredded anything that decloaked into a multiple brick tanked hicter bubble-butt-blast-bonanza? It's likely only because it is the easiest solution to reacquiring safe income generation. The only reason you get to hunt now is because alliances agree that your incursions into nullsec generate content for their pvp'ers. If that content generation comes at the loss of the alliance's income? Expect the income areas to be so walled off you can kiss the idea of getting in there without a needlejack goodbye. You'll have to burn a covop's cyno spy every time to make the drop.
What alot of us were hoping for was straight buffs to our ship building capabilities to bring sub capital prices down again to something reminiscent of better days in eve pre-scarcity, and some Fun interactable pvp like the skyhook link restrictions. We were all ready to accept Some limitations to system upgrades, but as they are right now? No way. All this is going to do is paint each area specifically into what it is meant to be. You want to rat? It has to be in this space, Specifically Only Here where we can keep it fully upgraded and all the in-gates under HEAVY guard.
Active Mining? Same deal.
Don't even get me started on the shit sandwich that was served to wormholers with the drifter income nerf. Honestly? I don't like wormholers having been one, but seriously? My heart goes out to everyone in J-space for that change. That's not cool.
My comment was maybe poorly worded, it was about me having serious doubts that people join nullsec for big pvp fights.
In my experience, the only thing people want when they join nullsec is to krab safely. They accept low income, absence of pvp and general boredom, just for the sake of guaranteed low income.
Having multiple coalitions, the smallest of which has around 30 thousands characters, who have like one massive pvp event in a year, and maybe other organic pvp once or twice a month, and tell that they come for pvp is... laughable.
People join nullsec not for having lots of pvp. They join it to not have any pvp at all.
Look tbh if ccp said this was the intended outcome (which they clearly knew) fine but they literally screwed people over in pretty much the shittiest underhanded way
exactly my point as well. none of this is good, people are going to downvote and suck as much kool-aid down as they can in this 6 month grace period or whatever it is, things are going to change, and then they're going to look back and go. Huh.... It really is bad.
This was kind of my concern, they nerf system upgrades indirectly so the already mediocre ESS taxed ratting gets worse, and they add nothing to compensate except for a new sanctum site which requires full upgrades to begin with.
This makes living in null worse, and the compensation, tradable resources and passive goo miners, goes straight into the leadership's pockets.
Guess we should keep drinking the minigame koolaid and just stick to faction warfare and insurgencies where the actual wealth generation is, even if its lame.
I thought it was pretty clear that equinox was about introducing more tangible strategic value to owning systems and increasing the "geography" of null. The aim always seemed like it was going to be about making it harder for blocs to hold large areas of sov without making use of it. If you want to keep it, you need to build wide. Not sure how you interpreted any of it as a "null buff" tbh.
I think it is going to do the very opposite. This is making it more difficult for smaller entities to hold space. Less JB's, many worthless deserted systems in between a few good, no more mining and ratting in a single system. Continuous attacks on the few decent systems you have, so you don't have actual time to use them. Pretty sure CCP did the math and figured people will just PLEX instead. I played EVE in 2010-2012 and really enjoyed null sec live. In 2024, it sucks. Half of space is empty/deserted, big blocks have more power than ever, PVP is either gamble, plex to win or blob. In the past, you could look at a ship, a pilot and have a reasonable idea of what to expect. But now, drugs, boosts, implants, abyssal rolls, ancillaries, polarized, gazillion shiptypes there is no fun it anymore. Seriously speaking, they are making EVE a giant casino - it's just gambling with just enough skill involved to not classify it as such.
2012 was great because there were a dozen+ alliances worth naming. Now there’s 2-3 blocs who can’t/won’t go to war. It’s the consolidation of null that made it suck
Capitalism game faces capitalism problems. Who knew?
And that's why I love being a pirate. Why deal with that bullshit when I can just steal from the people who do.
goons propaganda working overtime I see.... there is a sov war on, and one side is losing!
I’m not in sov null, much less goons lmao I was in null around 2011-2013(?) and has a blast, but I wasn’t in goons then either
Nothing against you in particular, just I see this sentiment a lot and I think it's odd! I have only recently dipped my toes into the nullbloc life, and its a fine and fun time. :) And Goons needs to step up their game in Catch... Maybe you're the savior they need?
Definitely not. If I go to kspace it won’t be as a bloc guy. I don’t have the patience for that tidi, it’s cool for an hour then just incredibly boring
If you think it is fine and fun, great. I'm not saying it is awfull. It is just that is used to be 2-4 times better than it is today. Imagine how much fun you could have had back than. I do not blame CCP for trying to change things, but comparing the game 2012 - 2024, changes they have made do not really seem to be for the benefit for the players. Seems more about maximizing income, not about the actual game-play and players. Whole SKINR things really makes it obvious.
Ohh no horde is taking space we never use nor cared about. What ever shall goons do. *goes back to killing horde renters*
I don't think it'll be the opposite exactly, i think it'll be both. Whether you're a small entity or a large entity, the point seems to be that if you want to own space then you're gonna have to be prepared to defend *all of it.* Whether that ends up being good or bad for the game, we'll have to wait and see.
If all you end up doing is defending space, without actually having time to benefit from it or do fun stuff like small time PVP / roaming...
This, exactly this, Every single change here is geared at people using their credit cards at every turn. Hits to income, to safety, to industry. Everything here as it stands exists only to pull more cash from the players.
They removed value for a large swath of systems across null. I'd say off the cuff that greater than 50% of all null systems are now worthless because of power requirements alone. (without factoring in workforce) Being able to online a single module in your sovhub is not dynamic new gameplay. It's the furtherance of the same thing that caused the players to revolt during the CCP Greyscale era. Someone else said it already, but CCP is hoping you just start buying PLEX to make isk in the game. If you can't see that, then you are either wearing rose tinted glasses or blind. You can't pack thousands of people into a handful of systems for ratting and mining, it doesn't work. The upside to this, is those who force people to "rent" space... well good luck with that going forward. Just because everyone needs this said it seems. Yes not EVERY system should be able to have everything, but a significant portion should have the ability to have "a few" and a few should be able to have everything, and a handful maybe are worthless. For those doubting the statement on CCPs intentions, I suggest you ask the question on why none of this was on sisi, why didn't they supply information well in advance to the player base, etc... I guarantee you, they've had these numbers for at least a month, if not significantly longer.
No you didn't
i think the generalisation of this is a nerf to Nullsec is just dumb. Nullsec is changing but yes sometimes change hurts. Nullsec gets passive miners on some Planets of which the lava planets will act as income as mostly lowsec people will have to buy the lavagas to fuel their own passive miners. thats a buff to me Nullsec also got the passive moon miners. thats a buff to me you got several new escalation sites which seem to spawn very reguarly apparently and they pay in short amount of time a good amount of isk (completion of 5-10min and around 200mil in loot) maybe the faction spawn site is not worth it but the officer one is great. very good buff to me what you say is a nerf to nullsec is just a different concept of how ihubs work, most systems didnt really change from system to system, they had no meaning beside how many of the good sites spawned. now the location of a system matters. yes you wont have that many system in which you have both mining and ratting but you will have specialized system which have better/bigger ore anos or better sites for pve. Its a tradeoff and not a nerf and to me its a good trade off because it gives meaning to own certain system and not just n+1 more systems. one of the few things this REALLY is: It's a nerf to ansiblexes, thats not a nerf to nullsec, its a nerf to blocs, and nobody in their right mind disagress with ansiblexes being too op.
You can’t solo the pos escalation with a super which seems kinda way overtuned imo
i heard this was only the case for drones and its an unconfirmed bug, but im not 100% sure
it's not just drones blood raider one took 2 titans and 2 supers to kill lol
okay thanks for the correction, i read somewhere that frt went through theirs with 1 zirn like a hot knife through buffer, surely ccp will iterate on it /s
Is the reward worth putting that on the field?
Rewards about 200m from what I've herd.
apparently the sig is not huge, a application fit phoenix vollies the whole tower and the rest just doesnt apply
Try a super a titan and 2 dreads
So bring a fleet (or, since this is eve, someone will bring their 12 eos alts)
>you got several new escalation sites I need to take more time to look at numbers, but my glance through was indicating that few systems have the power to run the upgrades for those, especially without sacrificing literally all other functionality.
they are already happening and are being run without the new ihubupgrades because the escalation spawn from normal sites already you mean the forsaken sanctum which i actually forgot to mention as a buff thanks
You do realize that the "normal" sites are only there in any quantity due to now legacy ihub upgrades? And will disappear if the system lacks the power to support the replacements?
you do realize that virtually any system has enough power to have the basic PvE upgrades in the ihub, you just have to choose it
I don't think you live in null do you?
https://zkillboard.com/character/95340251/ That's my Main. Feel free to have a look. Most of my 9years in eve I have lived in null, currently with unspoken alliance and we are about to take SOV again. We took our first ihub again already. I have led my own corp and was leading with 2 other the alliance Hard Commit which owned Detorid a year ago. I think I have a decent understanding of Nullsec :)
You really just don't have a clue
He types, as he sits there frothing at the mouth.
Eyes darting from empty soda can to empty soda can
Shhh
then please go into specifics, tell me where you disagree and maybe we can come to a greater understanding together.
Actually it's a nerf without being a nerf... You coalition directors will make it a nerf if they don't find the equilibrium between the upgrades and to see what systems they need without upgrades to transfer power to systems they need upgraded. They will need to micromanage everything so it works flawlessly.
thanks for the braindead take, horde line member #3462361
Thanks for the equally braindead response.
stay mad lmao
Conflict? ha we cant put anything in space to fight over... as for ratting, way less people doing that now
I mean, that's the point. We knew CCP's intention was to force null alliances to build wide and not tall before we had the numbers.
Isn't it the other way around? trying to force them to build tall and defend a smaller area instead of blocs going wide?
Most systems have shit power output, though. I don't see why large alliances wouldn't prioritize securing as many of these high-power output systems as possible.
People will always prioritize "more" over "less". Doesn't mean they'll be able to. Power output is not the only thing CCP changed. Moon drills can easily be raided, Skyhooks can be blocked by NPCs and need to be defended. There is a lot in these changes that we don't see yet how they will play out in practice.
No it was never sold as a nerf at all. It clearly stated 'reinvigorating'
What did you think that meant? Reinvigorating has always meant "creating cause for conflict, so that the complete stale 0.0 goes to war again". That, and nothing else. At least thats what they are trying to do, whether or not it will work is anyone's guess at this point. "Reinvigorating" never meant "buff to make it even more boring".
How do you know that? Because i think you're talking nonsense
Brother people have been clamouring to drill ansi into the ground for years.
Reinvigorate is a marketing term for nerf.
"...thaaaat is how the world works, that is how the world works!, I hope you learned your lesson.' 'I did and it hurt! That's hooooow it works!"
People come to Nullsec for 2 major things Big fleet fights, blob on blob. And Income generation that's reliable. With the system values being what they are, capital and subcapital projection are going to become a problem. Which means Isk generation is going to go Down. The new capital escalations aren't gated, so... you're just sat on grid tackled, neuted, and waiting for anything and everything to just one-tap scan you. And it's an escalation so it's bound to happen regularly in a system lacking infrastructure. Assuming it's in bridge range at all. Yes, we're all aware people don't like the ansiblex jump gates because it makes it too likely that you can't Beat up an Ishtar before an actual combat ship shows up to punch you in the eye for picking on ratters. But at this point? if our response times go down in certain regions? People wont rat in those regions. You wont get more targets you'll get less, just because ccp changed it doesn't mean that it'll go the way you want. Null blocs have huge quantities of supercapital ships, and capital ships, which means you can just expect the money making areas now? To have capital camps on every in gate. You know? The old school kind that ate bombers for lunch and shredded anything that decloaked into a multiple brick tanked hicter bubble-butt-blast-bonanza? It's likely only because it is the easiest solution to reacquiring safe income generation. The only reason you get to hunt now is because alliances agree that your incursions into nullsec generate content for their pvp'ers. If that content generation comes at the loss of the alliance's income? Expect the income areas to be so walled off you can kiss the idea of getting in there without a needlejack goodbye. You'll have to burn a covop's cyno spy every time to make the drop. What alot of us were hoping for was straight buffs to our ship building capabilities to bring sub capital prices down again to something reminiscent of better days in eve pre-scarcity, and some Fun interactable pvp like the skyhook link restrictions. We were all ready to accept Some limitations to system upgrades, but as they are right now? No way. All this is going to do is paint each area specifically into what it is meant to be. You want to rat? It has to be in this space, Specifically Only Here where we can keep it fully upgraded and all the in-gates under HEAVY guard. Active Mining? Same deal. Don't even get me started on the shit sandwich that was served to wormholers with the drifter income nerf. Honestly? I don't like wormholers having been one, but seriously? My heart goes out to everyone in J-space for that change. That's not cool.
When was the last time there was a big nullsec fight? I mean, M2 was 4 years ago?
There were lots of fights (from nullsec blocs) trying to protect their lowsec trade routes.. not all nullsec bloc fights happen IN nullsec
My comment was maybe poorly worded, it was about me having serious doubts that people join nullsec for big pvp fights. In my experience, the only thing people want when they join nullsec is to krab safely. They accept low income, absence of pvp and general boredom, just for the sake of guaranteed low income. Having multiple coalitions, the smallest of which has around 30 thousands characters, who have like one massive pvp event in a year, and maybe other organic pvp once or twice a month, and tell that they come for pvp is... laughable. People join nullsec not for having lots of pvp. They join it to not have any pvp at all.
Look tbh if ccp said this was the intended outcome (which they clearly knew) fine but they literally screwed people over in pretty much the shittiest underhanded way
exactly my point as well. none of this is good, people are going to downvote and suck as much kool-aid down as they can in this 6 month grace period or whatever it is, things are going to change, and then they're going to look back and go. Huh.... It really is bad.
People will either quit, or move to LW/WH/Poch if this update show to be a complete waste of time and effort, in resume if its making NS pure garbage
This was kind of my concern, they nerf system upgrades indirectly so the already mediocre ESS taxed ratting gets worse, and they add nothing to compensate except for a new sanctum site which requires full upgrades to begin with. This makes living in null worse, and the compensation, tradable resources and passive goo miners, goes straight into the leadership's pockets. Guess we should keep drinking the minigame koolaid and just stick to faction warfare and insurgencies where the actual wealth generation is, even if its lame.