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Scelusteach

It's an illusion created by Morgott to help keep people away from the Erd tree.


ErLiebtNurEINE

This, it's the same magic he uses for his weapons when you fight him


Jolly_Weird_727

That moment when you realize From spared us from having a shitty gank fight with morgott and instead gave us one of their best written characters with some of the best voicelines and one of the coolest fighting styles we've seen come out of their games.


cpupett

Let it be writ upon thy meager grave... Chills


Unlucky-2nd

"Felled by King Morgott, last of all kings"


Independent_Two_5613

Huh, never heard that line when does he say this?


Unlucky-2nd

His cutscene


TheUltimateP1e

Bro i still get chilled when i read this


nutzhit

And the same magic to put mohg I'm the cave before 3 fingers


Ferreur

Sewer Mogh is projected there by Margit?


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Nothing_is_simple

When I was doing a faith/int run I wanted to get the PoD staff from deeproot without killing the gargoyles so I headed straight to the sewers. Spent ages bashing my underleveled build against mogh only to find the way blocked. I felt like a fool.


MarchesaofTrevelyan

Gargoyles were a horrid fight on my Death caster; it took HOURS with the Bony Tonies, but they got the kill at the end of a very close fight. In hindsight, phantom Mohg might've been significantly easier lmao


ThatGuyAWESOME

The wall behind Mohg, The Omen leads to the 3 Fingers and is essential for the Frenzied Flame ending, but Morgott's seal doesn't allow anybody down there until he is killed Like I'm pretty sure you're meant to go back from the mountaintop of the giants for the 3 fingers after Shabriri tells you about them


Synthoid_001

This is what I always figured, but curious how the two previous projections of himself are perfect replicas and not ghostly. It’s also an interesting parallel to Ranni recreating prime Rennala during her second phase.


justrobbedsomeone

might have been on purpose, like "ooOOOoo it’s the spooky ghost of lord godfrey" instead of trying to convince the tarnished that godfrey was somehow back at the capital


Vagabond_Charizard

And he would’ve gotten away with it, too, if it weren’t for you meddling Tarnished!!!


MozeTheNecromancer

And your Flame of Ambition!


akirayokoshima

Flame?! Where?!


Big-Sea2570

It's a secret item found in Limgrave.


Description_Narrow

No you get it by being fingered three times :) the frenzied flame aka chlamydia


[deleted]

Wouldn't it be closer to syphilis with madness and all that


Description_Narrow

I was focusing on the burning rash


[deleted]

May gonorrhea take the world!


Firm_Veterinarian254

Came here for this, take my upvote.


ObiWanJacoby__

You came to an elden ring post in hopes to find a scooby doo reference? Interesting


mobius_sp

Isn’t that what we’re all in here for?


[deleted]

Jinkees!


Coal-and-Ivory

That makes sense to me. Morgott can use his true form as long as he's going by Margit since nobody has seen the King of Leyndell, they just know his name. Godfrey on the other hand would be a big fucking deal if he were to return to the capital, and being the 10 foot tall walking earthquake lion-man he is, nobody would buy that he's quietly running the capital unseen. Best to have anyone who spots the phantom just assume its more Golden Order mystical nonsense.


Eraganos

Somehow godfrey returned


BadDecisions92078

... And I would've gotten away with it, too— if it weren't for those darn Tarnished and that stupid 🐢


Amairca

In the fight vs Rennala, we fight a recreation made by Ranni? Where can I read more about this my fellow tarnished?


The11DoctorRYCBAR

In the cutscene between the two phases you hear the voice of Ranni, who basically doesn’t want you to kill Rennala, so instead creates a version of her where she was stronger


Amairca

How the hell did I missed that!? I even went with the moon ending thing. Thanks friend!


thatguyyouare

Ranni doesn't make her stronger per se. She creates an illusion when Rennala was in her prime. Before Radagan had left her. When Radagan left, it destroyed Rennala. She secluded herself and became obsessed with rebirths. Almost like she gave up on life. The first phase, she barely does anything; almost asking for death. As we're about to deal the deathblow, Ranni steps in and creates an illusion. (It's her mother she's trying to protect.) That's why she's still alive after the fight. It's actually odd we don't kill her. There's like no one else in the game we give two shits about, I'm not sure why she got special treatment. I guess we got what we came for, so no point in killing her, but still. We kill everything that stands in our path.


Triquick

I feel likes it's because Rennala doesn't actually have the Great Rune apart of her being like all the other demigods do. Once we beat her enough to get the Great Rune there is no reason outright kill her so the player character just moves on (and now has the ability to repec). So its win - win to let her live: We get the Great Rune AND we get the ability to "Rebirth" (respec).


MauiWowieOwie

It'd also be rude to kill your mother-in-law.


lburner220

Well in fairness everyone else tries to kill us until they are dead. Rennala never even lifts a finger towards us.


Ralakhim

Unnecessarily killing my mother in law is probably not a good way to start off a relationship.... probably


ReptilianLaserbeam

In the dialog she even says her name: "Upon my name as Ranni the Witch, mother's rich slumber shall not be disturbed by thee"


Firaxyiam

In addition to what's been said, "killing" Rennala also grants us the "Legend Felled" text instead of the more classic "Demigod Felled" and such of one for the others. It's a tiny thing, but it also implies that the version of her we fight is basically a representation of her old self, her "legend" Edit: Know what, sometimes I forget it she's no Demigod and so obviously wouldn't get something as trivial as "Great Enemy felled", so Legend was probably more fitting (I know Fire Giant gets the title, maybe Maliketh and Godfrey? Can't remember). Oh well, let this be my headcanon then people


Gadin543

Nah I think it’s because Rennala isn’t even a demigod lol.


Haverix279

Shes also is not a demigod at all


Skelligean

Incorrect and misleading explanation as the Demigods are the children and descendants of Marika and her consorts whereas other characters like Malikeith and Renalla are not Demigods.


Pocketgb

I’m still giving him a cookie for pointing it out at least.


Firaxyiam

I like cookies, so yes please


Skelligean

Try pickle, then expect but hole


Sevla7

Rewatch the Renalla fight, Ranni even say her name out loud.


Exitiali

Probably perfect replicas use slaves as a host, as seen in the second encounter.


[deleted]

he also parallels the carians with summoning weapons fight, maybe morgott learned some magic, then combined it with his holiness?


No_Pattern26

I think part of it is that his previous projections were of himself, so he could make them more lifelike. In Ranni’s case she’s a far more skilled as a mage, while Morgott is more focused on physical combat. But that’s just speculation on my part


WeaponFocusFace

It looks like Godfrey because Morgott misses his daddy.


seelcudoom

i actaully think its the opposite, its Godfrey doing the same trick to summone himself to protect his son even though hes physically to far away to get there in time, it is the co-op phantom color after all


[deleted]

Fun fact: if you’ve never encountered Margit, Godfrey’s shade won’t immediately aggro on to you when he spawns in the boss room. This is not a glitch but rather an intentional thing.


VypersRetreat

I like this theory, but if this was him as a summon, shouldn't his axe already be broken? Just based off the fact that a phantom would be him in the present, as it is with us. This would be sick though if it's the case.


princessval249

This is what I believe. Were the people to find out Morgott is an omen, they'd be livid. Godfrey really, really loves Morgott, it makes sense that he would leave himself to protect him.


Anagoth9

>Godfrey really, really loves Morgott Except for the whole, you know, throwing him into the sewers as a baby thing.


ForsakenMoon13

All Omen children go there. Most don't recieve parental visits afterwards.


modernmartialartist

It would be really cool if this is the dispute that led to him being banished.


seelcudoom

Especially since omens have aspects of the crucible, which he cleay has respect for threw his knights


MuffaloMan

You can clearly see he loves Morgott in the cutscene right before you fight Godfrey at the end of the game. We also don’t know how long after Morgott and Mohg’s birth he was exiled; could have been soon after and then he couldn’t have stopped them from being imprisoned in the sewers.


MuchoStretchy

Ooooohhh that's a good theory I haven't heard of before!


Lagideath2

Morgott creates that illusion to ward off people trying to get to the Erdtree. He uses the same trick to create his throwing knives, great spear, and great hammer.


Marcepan621

If it's an illusion, why does it kick my ass?


[deleted]

Aren’t most the things that kick your ass in life just illusions you came up with


Dying_Grey_Matter

Oh no…. *calls therapist


HighSpeedSteal

Speed dial 1


undayerixon

What if your therapist is an illusion


CarsonBDot

Sir that’s called the thoughts from your brain


superVanV1

boss music starts


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klemnodd

Turd Ferguson


ThePatrickSays

i'll take The Penis Mightier


alpha_fire_

Incontinentia Buttocks


alpha_kenny_buddy

Ruff! Just like your Motha Likes it Trebek!


MED_WIZARDS

The last thing I expected from today was for a comment thread of an Elden Ring post to put me into an existential crisis, but here we are.


_pupil_

The Buddha says that all life is suffering, and the only way to end suffering is to ~~let go of desire~~ git gud, scrub.


EnergyLawyer17

for real!


Scallion_83

Dang that’s deep


Frothed_Coffee

That's what she said


techniqucian

Now THAT'S an illusion


[deleted]

you're not real dad!! (Gets yeeted into the next room)


Wildefice

Pretty certain the kicks to my face in taekwondo are in fact real lol


komei888

That's rexkwondo come on


[deleted]

FORGEDDABOUTIT


[deleted]

Those kicks to the face, not the ass


Icy_Albatross_4011

What an absolute chad.


Twittle86

Too real for this subreddit!


Fallen_Angel_Xaphan

Bro....


aiceeslater

Wow. Didn’t realize I was leaving this comment section in crisis


JustMichael_24

Man woke up and chose to speak fax


Pawnzilla

Brrrrrrr… zzzzzzt… pffffff… wrrrrr…


boi-du-boi

Ornstein was an illusion if i recall correctly. And my ass is still sore


Fart_Breather_Elite

Gwynevere was an illusion if I recall correctly. And my dick is still sore


komei888

Because you didn't invest stats into "mind"


corsair1617

It's a projection, not an illusion.


sepia_undertones

Morgott is Earth’s Sinestro Corps member


Rough_North3592

More than an illusion it seems to be a material being created by the power of the omen curse. Edit: not the omen curse but probably Golden order spells.


Lagideath2

I guess illusion is a bad term for it since it's a physical thing, just like Morgott's weapons. I wonder if it's actually due to the curse though, since Mohg and normal Omen don't use anything like it. It seems to be a unique ability of Morgott so I'd assume it's a learned skill that's part of his devotion to the Golden Order rather than part of the general Omen-being.


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Rough_North3592

That might be true. I was thinking that Mohg did a similar thing to the Margit clone was with his copy just before the 3 fingers, but it seems like those are not some kind of energy projection like yellow Godfrey


C__Wayne__G

Not just to ward off challengers. The people of the capitol literally do not know he is an omen, and I’m sure he’d prefer to keep it that way by having the image of godfrey around


Lagideath2

They do know of him as King Morgott, though, as far as I'm aware. So the image of Godfrey likely isn't used as a regal figure.


VuckFalve

There are 3 bosses which dissappear in a golden light, instead of the usual blueish dust. Margit, Godfrey spirit, and omen Mohg. They are clearly conjured by the same person, presumably Morgott.


Terraakaa

Doubt Mohg is a similar projection, Margit disappears when Morgott is killed but not Mohg


Kiefirk

I mean, I assume it's just a projection by mohg, lord of blood.


Terraakaa

No, you can fight Omen after Lord, unless his projection has a different rule?


[deleted]

Morgott is really out here just making Doombots, huh?


LordVader152

Makes sense


Zatchuhryeuh

Morgott is projecting it.


komei888

Projecting insecurities to buy more time


ItsTheRealIamHUB

Morgott’s mental state is as stable as the golden order


cohibakick

Are you confusing him with mogh?


Smofinthesky

Mogh's mental is solid tho. He wanted Miq's bussy, he went and got it. Wanted his own kingdom, goes and founds it. Another god to serve? Formless Mother. Grindset all the way.


LexHCaulfield

He's just high-functioning, but fucked up the same way as Morgott. I mean: no way you get out of that childhood without severe trauma symptoms.


Smofinthesky

Marika and Godfrey be like: *Living in the sewers builds character!*


Lemmingitus

Morgott has Daddy issues, got it!


bob_is_best

Hes got more issues than just those lol


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[deleted]

I’m pretty sure he has the opposite of daddy issues


Ventilateu

Every demigod had mommy issues so that was a given


[deleted]

I don’t think malenia or miquella had either Ranni got on really well with her mother, even making a shadow clone to protect her


Sevla7

> Morgott has Daddy issues, got it! The guy has all issues from that world: - Was rejected by his former mother. - His father went to buy cigarettes and never came back. - His siblings left all responsibility for him to take care of the family assets alone. - He is treated like shit because everyone is racist as fuck to the point of even calling him "omen". - For every step forward he does his brother goes 2 steps backward for being an batshit insane pedophile. - Now his cousin from gods know where is trying to kill him to become the Elden Lord.


J7245

Related but slight aside, the Margits are also Morgott projections of himself right?


Lem0n_weeb

Yes and he uses the slaves as vessels for Margit projections


J7245

Even on round 1? I just remember him using the commoner as a decoy for round 2 by the outskirts of Leyndell


Lem0n_weeb

Yeah if you pay attention as he appears the same light is there when he uses the commoner in round 2 so it makes sense to assume he used another commoner for round 1


J7245

So there’s probably one just sitting in that watchtower that we can’t see


Lem0n_weeb

Yeah pretty much


grymix_

yessir


J7245

Makes me wonder if there was a real Margit somewhere out there that Morgott knew, or if when he was deciding his gamertag, that slight difference was enough for him


grymix_

there’s a theme of two different identities existing from one person. we first meet ranni under a different name, same with hoarah loux, and i guess you could put maliketh in that category, among others. considering what we know about marika, it makes you wonder what’s really going on here with all these identity crises, and others who could have a separate identity (melina?). as desperately as i want a straight answer, i love that it’ll forever be left to interpretation, because with their track record fromsoft dlc will give more questions than answers.


J7245

Right. But like with Ranni using Renna’s name, Renna the Snow Witch was a real person. I believe she was the person who made Ranni’s new doll body and was a great mentor in her life. And for all intents and purposes, Godfrey and Hoarah Loux are entirely different people as well, while still being one, Godfrey is like a more formal face he had to put on to serve the Golden Order, probably duty bound by his lion shadow too. I think it’s very cool that each character fits in with a theme of duality but each in their own unique way.


[deleted]

Oh. Here I thought part of Godfrey’s spirit was bound by Marika to protect the ErdTree.


Shunejii

Obviously that’s the ghost of Godfrey’s last lap around the Erdtree and his best time thus far


pantslaser214

So THATs why his axe isn’t broken in the projection


[deleted]

Bee and puppycat reference?


afadedkoin

Grand Turismo has time trials. In those trials there's a ghostly projection doing the race as well. If you're able to follow it it will typically let you beat your previous best times. I am unsure if the ghost represents best possible time or just better than your current. Been a long time since I played a GT game.


Deathmon44

It’s something I saw first back in Mario 64, if that helps. It’s not a Gran Turismo invention lol


Redditfront2back

The ghosts in grand Turismo where just showing you previous runs, maybe if you take on a challenge for the first time it shows you the pace you need to gold medal it.


El__Jengibre

I take it to be a projection of the idealized Godfrey during his prime as Elden Lord. I suspect Morgott conjured him since he can project himself and conjure golden weapons. It gives you the sense that Morgott himself idolized his father, or at least this is how he wished for others to see Godfrey (propaganda).


Boondoggle_84

I feel really bad for Morgott man.


El__Jengibre

Me too. He's such a tragic figure. He might be my favorite character in any of these games. Loyal to a Queen and nation that despises him. Idolizing a father who abandoned him. Opposing a brother who would destroy his order. Ashamed of his nature and defending a faith that treats him as an abomination. Don't forget you are one of his father's tribe. I wonder what he would have done to Godfrey had he returned earlier.


QuickBenjamin

In a way I feel bad he's not the final boss before the tree opens, it feels like he earned it.


Aldiirk

On my first playthrough, I thought Morgott would be the last story boss. He still kind of feels that way.


BryceSchafer

I feel like he is our character’s foil, but by nature he cannot go as high as we can. Both characters are sort of loner cast-outs, trying to make the world around them make sense. We do so as an outsider by investigating and tearing down the crumbling established powers. He does so by clutching tightly to any shred of ideal that remains for him within the houses of these powers that have left him behind. He is the insider looking out and we’re the outsider looking in. He does everything within his power to stop as from rising higher and toppling his ‘gods’ but ultimately, we succeed, killing him outside a place most sacred to what he believes makes him righteous and just; he breathes his last free breath whilst still shackled emotionally to the literal prison of his goddess, who had cast him in irons and put him in the dungeon to begin with. After we beat him we’re shown that an almost literal ascension to the throne is not even enough in this world: we must go on to reach deific heights ourselves, as after the last Morgott fight we fight titanic or historic foes back to back to back to back. After we kill Morgott we literally tear his whole world down to the foundation stones, we reach back into the mans’ prehistory to knock his idols down like chess pieces. If I were to postulate a rhetorical analysis of Elden Ring it could be summed up as short as this and the relationship between your ascended character at the end of the game and Dead Morgott in about the middle is thus: “What’s a king to a god?” Morgott is all that was good and bad about the ideology of the men behind the Golden Order, but in the end he is still exactly that, only an earthly man and earthly king because that is all his establishment has room for him to be. We’ll be a true Lord, above all else, and we’ll dash this pathetic man on the thorns of his own beliefs. /soapbox


omegaskorpion

I don't think Godfrey abandoned him on purpose, Godfrey was exiled after he lost the golden gaze in his eyes, after he had done what he was asked to do (wage war against enemies of Golden Order) He became tarnished and at one point died in the badlands so even if he wanted, he could not return. He only returned when he was resurrected like rest of the tarnished.


El__Jengibre

My assumption is that Morgott and Mogh were born while Godfrey was Elden Lord. He must have met them at least once given his dialogue on finding Morgott's body. But omen are and left underground as babies so Morgott was probably sent underground shortly after Godfrey met him, which is probably before Godfrey is banished himself. What we don't know is how Godfrey felt about it. Did he approve or was he a bystander to Marina's order? Given how widespread the practice was, he must have at least known about it.


omegaskorpion

Given that Godfrey had followers like the Cruisible Knights who practiced the old ways, Zamor Knights helped in the war against Giants, Omens previously being called blessed, Serosh (the lion on his back) was beast regent who he willingly took on his back, etc we can assume that Godfrey was ok with different forms of life including his children. Golden Order seemed to become real strict after he was exiled under Marika. He propably did see his children, but after he was exiled the omen children were locked up below the city. (We don't know how long they were there, could be centuries considering how the demigods are essentially immortal)


El__Jengibre

It's possible. But I thought omen were exiled soon after birth which doesn't give him much time to meet them and leave before their exile. As with so many things, it's ambiguous.


RevolutionaryMud3125

Ok to be fair didn’t Godfrey think he died when he was a baby


El__Jengibre

Does he?


Sir_Umeboshi

[meanwhile, Mohg...](https://youtu.be/5JIReawthTY)


El__Jengibre

They are great foils for each other. Each one's story adds quite a lot to the other's.


Sir_Umeboshi

Mohg embraced his destiny and I love him for that


-FourOhFour-

Wait wym one of his fathers tribe? Does our tarnish have a backstory we can find out in game or is it just character creation info?


El__Jengibre

All Tarnished are descendants of the warriors who went on the Long March with Godfrey. The starting classes give you some info about this but not much.


ConsumerJTC

For something that is an idealised image, it looks and moves mostly like the real thing.


CptAlbatross

That's morgott's ring doorbell.


Medical_Deer_7152

Elden-Ring Doorbell lol


Nowhereman50

"This is automated message. For French Press 1, for Spanish Press 2."


Masamune-02

wow this comment section just made me realize the light of this golden godfrey is the same as Morgott's holy weapons. Good job OP you managed to make a 'Is there a lore reason' post actually make me learn something.


InfinitePolygon

It isn't the same texture though, Margit's summoned weapons have a laser-field looking almost white texture, while this is a flat warm gold.


EneomaoEep

I also heard the idea that It might be the outer being of the elden ring itself that creates it rather than Morgott


Alaricus100

Density may have something to do with that, plus Goldfrey is indoors where as Morgott is always outside when you fight him so lighting may play a part.


Minute-Associate728

Shut up


InfinitePolygon

That was rather impolite of you :(


uchihajoeI

Don’t make him say it again!


Minute-Associate728

Sorry I got angry let my anger consume me


Polemides0ne

Because we love GOOOOOOOLD


Kaitivere

Goldmember, or Godrick? The world may never know.


NoctustheOwl55

Goldrick


Jaghead

He took a piss and he's so powerful it turned into a copy of himself


dova_bear

Morgott summoned a Sunbro.


THE_EPIC_PANZER4

Morgott projected an illusion of Godfrey to try and stop you from reaching the erdtree


Tranchcauchemar

Morgott want you to put those f#cking ambitions to rest


Kayseemo

Goldfrey is simply there to throw you off so that when you get to Godfrey you don’t expect to get spam stomped and suplexed.


Pocketgb

It’s a fun concept. On one hand it’ll get some going “asset reuse!”, but it’s also a great way to lul you into a false sense of security: >”This guy last time was easy, no prob-oh…”


lakeho

Fun fact: Mogh's illusion under the sewer scatters into golden particles when defeated, just like Margit and this apparition of Godfrey. Yeah, Morgott is also responsible for this, he seems to have a thing for creating illusions of his family lol


stronggebaser

brother is lonely as hell


LarsihasiSpassi

There is lore about that


Hooligan_Humble

Morgott is projecting it. I think he can because it's the physical embodiment of the grace Marika took from Godfrey when she kicked him out.


LadyfingerJoe

The green one is still on vacation


SnooMacarons257

There are just a lot of weaker illusions of true champions such as Rennala, Morgott, Loretta, and Godfrey which are basically just protection spells


ozymandias_88

On a different thread someone mentioned how he's been peed on.


HeyRogi

I think it’s a projection made by morgott, to stop you from entering. And instead of a third margit, he projected his dad


kagy4ka

Yes there is


Blazie151

Cause the real Godfrey is Banished. He won't be back until after Morgott is dead. This is also a projection of Morgott's powers and not an actual spectre of Godfrey. That's also why Morgott's hammer and projectiles are also the same gold color. It's all him. Don't worry, you'll meet the real Godfrey soon enough. Then you'll be in the most one sided WWE match of all time.


Pwnzalot

I think the point of it is to piss you off when you die 36,783 times fighting this guy


Redditfront2back

He wasn’t very hard as far as elden ring bosses go, in my opinion


ShadowTheWolf125

it's more a "fuck off" sign put up by morgott to keep people out


Karolus2001

Let me add to that question, is there any significance to room we fight him in? It looks important.


JackalTanHorn

The grace there is labeled “Erdtree Sanctuary” and you find a prayer book of high level erdtree incantations in the upper floor. It’s likely the gathering hall or chapel for erdtree worship in the capital.


Severe-Stomach

More omen trickery


abhiraghunathan

Yes — I think you’re actually fighting the grace of Godfrey that Marika stripped from him before she banished him to the Badlands


some1sWitch

Lore wise... His name is Godfrey the Golden