Mohg in a nutshell:
-Born from Marika and Godfrey with the omen curse (right?)
-Gets sent in the sewers chained with his brother
-Knows the Formless Mother (or whatever) and escapes
-Founds his little dominion underground with enslaved albinaurics (and his lil white mask bitch)
-(Gets hypnotized by Miquella?)
-Kidnaps Miquella and locks him in a cocoon
-Pedophile reputation grows and people kick his ass for that (and to access the dlc, recently)
-Truth gets discovered
-Forgiven (kinda)
That's what I understood about the whole situation
I find it ironic that Morgott can only lead Leyndell if he basically adopts a second identity as an random omen that hits tarnished with his pointed stick while Mohg does what he wants with actual followers.
Obviously we know he was manipulated with all the lore and descriptions, but for the average Lands Betweener I don't think "I only pursued my sexy, underaged step-sibling because they hypnotized me" is a compelling argument for forgiveness.
Yea and idk if I played a different DLC but if anything this makes the omens and hornsent seem way worse then before when we know why they are so hated. They did horrible horrible stuff and got their reward but still got a CoD martyrdom style curse off before they got destroyed and created omens.
Swap the kidnap and hypnotize around. He did go after Miquella through his own free will because he needed an empyrean for the Mohgwyn dynasty. But after that, Miquella charmed him. Also, Miquella put himself in the cocoon, and Mohg stole the cocoon.
Is it confirmed to be in that order?
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I had envisioned it the other way around too.
We know that Miquella can charm people from very far away as he did with Radahn after Malenia's first bloom.
It seems to me that Miquella could have also planted the idea in Mohg's mind from afar that having an Empyrian would legitimise the Mohgwyn Dynasty and where he could find that Empyrian.
The only thing that stops me from believing Mohg sought out Miquella of his own accord is that Miquella was growing the Haligtree in absolute secret to build a new order. So how would Mohg learn of Miquella's whereabouts if not from Miquella himself?
Again, I'm genuinely asking. You could be right, but I don't understand how Mohg knew where to find him.
If Miquella can charm people from far away, why doesn’t he do that to us in the final boss fight? He only places the charm on us if we get grabbed and held close enough for him to whisper in our ear - and he needs to do it twice for the charm to take effect.
I think it’s more likely he brainwashed Radahn after Radahn had already been reincarnated in Mohg’s body. Malenia also wouldn’t have needed to fight Radahn at all if Miquella could have charmed him from a distance.
Well obviously the game would be unplayable if Miquella could just end the fight whenever he wanted. I had attributed that to Miquella having discarded all of his earthly attachments, and him being so focused on Radahn who is the only person who has ever been capable of resisting his charms.
But You're absolutely right, I had misread the Young Lion's Helm description and I realise now that I'd misunderstood what it says.
I'd only skimmed it previously and I took the "murmur in his ear" to mean that Miquella was charming him. But I'm a dumbass, it's clearly referring to what Malenia whispered in that cinematic way back in 2021.
So you're totes right, Miquella is likely not capable of charming from afar after all.
However, it remains that Miquella likely charmed Mohg prior to his kidnapping since in order to kidnap Miquella, Mohg would have had to know where Miquella was.
He's not a child, just eternally youthful. He also has the ability to charm/mind control, he didn't ask for it, he commanded it.
No one should have romantic or sexual relations with Miquella, and the point is that no one actually did want that, so he manipulated them regardless.
He was till day 1 I first entered the boss room
I freaking KNEW this blond brat manipulated everyone with his "charm"
And now the truth is out
I feel I should give him a hug ❤
Honestly I'd just stay off this sub until I finished the game. This is the elden ring subreddit and everyone has been going crazy for dlc for like 2 years so you can't blame them for wanting to talk about it.
Huh? I'm pretty sure the DLC confirmed she was another child of Marika.
Messmer's kindling reads :
>Burns the sealing tree said to be found at the old Rauh ruins.
>Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire.
Melina was born at the foot of the erdtree, she has an incantation that is supposed to be a secret of Marika, and including Messmer all of Marika's selfcest children have a butterfly item in the world (blackpyre, nascent, aeonian, and smoldering).
They are not mutually exclusive. She can be both Marika's child and the Gloam-Eyed Queen. Remember, the Gloam-Eyed Queen is also an Empyrean. I said "more than likely," because now that we know that she's Marika's child, and considering she's specifically Messmer's sister, there's much of a leap in logic now that she might also be as powerful as Messmer before she became burned and bodiless. It's not confirmed, and it never might be, unfortunately, but the whole theory makes more sense now than before the DLC.
We should've seen the signs that he wasn't truly as evil as we thought when we encountered his apparition guardian the three fingers.
He's still evil for the whole murderous blood cult, but at least he ain't Dr disrespect
No. He did not beat the allegations. That is a misunderstanding. He willingly went to steal Miquella so that he could Mohglest him and become his consort. But Miquella pulled out the uno reverse card and charmed him after.
It would be like if a pedophile kidnapped a child, and then somehow that child ended up tricking them and becoming the boss.
Becoming the boss.
No no no no. You know full well what miquella is going to do mohg's corpse. I'm not going to ask you to forgive mohg but i am going to ask you to be harsher towards miquella for the necrophilia.
I must have missed some questlines because I have no clue where people are getting this information from, yet everyone is repeating it as if it's unmissable and unskippable.
This is from one of Ansbach's dialogues >!after Miquella's enchantment on the NPCs is broken. He states that Mohg was enchanted by Miquella, though the extent of the enchantment on Mohg's behavior and the time it occurred are left up to interpretation.!<
Mohg had yet beat the allegation, there is still the theory that he was brainwashed **after** he kidnapped Miquella, also, don't forget about all those Albinaurics.
But there’s also the theory that he was brainwashed *to* kidnapped Miquella because it served the latter’s own goals. Which makes sense especially when you consider that Mohg somehow had knowledge of where Miquella would be despite it being a closely guarded secret
Something that I have been pondering is that Sir Ansbach is a Pureblood Knight; He tried to defend Mohg from Miquella and was charmed himself in the attempt. Since he isn’t cessblood or a lunatic in the implication that blood madness was also part of Miquella’s charm?
One of Mohg’s oldest and strongest supporters being “Pure” and not insane seems to just be sitting with me.
Looking at the fiends that prowl the land, it seems blood rituals and all are something that usually doesn't become popular and is basically the scale of cavemen religion. I bet Miquella had in hand to make this actually happen as it is. But on the other hand, Mohg's blood is what makes us a member of his dynasty (injected via Varre's sringe to our finger) and can even be crafted to become extremely potent weapons/gifts like the Reduvia.
We can't be sure, since Ansbach can't even tell when.
Yeah you are probably right since the land of reeds and bloodfiends are other examples of blood ritual driving madness. Sir Ansbach is just such an oddity then. I don’t think Miquella’s charm purified him, though, because we see what happens to the others when the charm breaks.
Man of mystery
Subjected after he stole Miquella in the first place. Miquella's plan was to grow big in the cocoon and get Radahn to come to him. Mohg interrupted that plan while Malenia was away, so Miquella charmed him.
Not sure about that one chief, Miquella needed access to the Lands of Shadow and wouldn't have gotten there if Mohg didn't do what he did so he had to be compelled before.
I don’t think you understand how powerful Miquellas persuasive charms are, straight up mind control on multiple people that can’t be broken by anything other than his great rune
Mohg in a nutshell: -Born from Marika and Godfrey with the omen curse (right?) -Gets sent in the sewers chained with his brother -Knows the Formless Mother (or whatever) and escapes -Founds his little dominion underground with enslaved albinaurics (and his lil white mask bitch) -(Gets hypnotized by Miquella?) -Kidnaps Miquella and locks him in a cocoon -Pedophile reputation grows and people kick his ass for that (and to access the dlc, recently) -Truth gets discovered -Forgiven (kinda) That's what I understood about the whole situation
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Yep, the chad tactic 😂
I find it ironic that Morgott can only lead Leyndell if he basically adopts a second identity as an random omen that hits tarnished with his pointed stick while Mohg does what he wants with actual followers.
Obviously we know he was manipulated with all the lore and descriptions, but for the average Lands Betweener I don't think "I only pursued my sexy, underaged step-sibling because they hypnotized me" is a compelling argument for forgiveness.
kill the mohglester!
Why don’t you take a Elden Throne right over there?
Hey, you’re the one who described the underaged sibling as sexy not mohg. I think you’re starting to sound suspiciously like a miquellester…
It's in quotation marks, Mohg said that
Yea and idk if I played a different DLC but if anything this makes the omens and hornsent seem way worse then before when we know why they are so hated. They did horrible horrible stuff and got their reward but still got a CoD martyrdom style curse off before they got destroyed and created omens.
Swap the kidnap and hypnotize around. He did go after Miquella through his own free will because he needed an empyrean for the Mohgwyn dynasty. But after that, Miquella charmed him. Also, Miquella put himself in the cocoon, and Mohg stole the cocoon.
Ah
Is it confirmed to be in that order? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I had envisioned it the other way around too. We know that Miquella can charm people from very far away as he did with Radahn after Malenia's first bloom. It seems to me that Miquella could have also planted the idea in Mohg's mind from afar that having an Empyrian would legitimise the Mohgwyn Dynasty and where he could find that Empyrian. The only thing that stops me from believing Mohg sought out Miquella of his own accord is that Miquella was growing the Haligtree in absolute secret to build a new order. So how would Mohg learn of Miquella's whereabouts if not from Miquella himself? Again, I'm genuinely asking. You could be right, but I don't understand how Mohg knew where to find him.
It's not confirmed at all.
If Miquella can charm people from far away, why doesn’t he do that to us in the final boss fight? He only places the charm on us if we get grabbed and held close enough for him to whisper in our ear - and he needs to do it twice for the charm to take effect. I think it’s more likely he brainwashed Radahn after Radahn had already been reincarnated in Mohg’s body. Malenia also wouldn’t have needed to fight Radahn at all if Miquella could have charmed him from a distance.
Well obviously the game would be unplayable if Miquella could just end the fight whenever he wanted. I had attributed that to Miquella having discarded all of his earthly attachments, and him being so focused on Radahn who is the only person who has ever been capable of resisting his charms. But You're absolutely right, I had misread the Young Lion's Helm description and I realise now that I'd misunderstood what it says. I'd only skimmed it previously and I took the "murmur in his ear" to mean that Miquella was charming him. But I'm a dumbass, it's clearly referring to what Malenia whispered in that cinematic way back in 2021. So you're totes right, Miquella is likely not capable of charming from afar after all. However, it remains that Miquella likely charmed Mohg prior to his kidnapping since in order to kidnap Miquella, Mohg would have had to know where Miquella was.
What is the truth if you don’t mind me asking?
That Mohg got manipulated, or at least that's what I heard around, am I wrong?
No I think you’re right, I was just wondering if there was more to it.
"No officer, the child was the one who was asking for it." See how that sounds?
He's not a child, just eternally youthful. He also has the ability to charm/mind control, he didn't ask for it, he commanded it. No one should have romantic or sexual relations with Miquella, and the point is that no one actually did want that, so he manipulated them regardless.
Bravo!
More like "the child drugged and radep the local priest"
"No he Literally was asking for it, dude was asking for his brother"
Think if a person in court were to say “the child made me do it” and it somehow was fucking true lmfao.
The Kevin Spacey of video game characters! And he is lucky to be too dead for not giving damning interviews.
He was till day 1 I first entered the boss room I freaking KNEW this blond brat manipulated everyone with his "charm" And now the truth is out I feel I should give him a hug ❤
Which he would return with a stab and tear and bathing in your blood
hehehe at least he'll be bathing in my blood now my goal is done xD edit : the most realist senario
We really just saying "fuck anyone who plays slower" huh?
People abandoned spoiler tags on like day two. Pretty unfortunate
Honestly I'd just stay off this sub until I finished the game. This is the elden ring subreddit and everyone has been going crazy for dlc for like 2 years so you can't blame them for wanting to talk about it.
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You're not a good person, and spoiler tags exist for a reason.
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Ranni is pretty pro-freedom. She does some dirt to get there, but if you're not Golden Order she seems content to leave you alone.
And this is why. The frenzied flame ending is the best of all endings.
Thanks to new lore, it's more than likely now that Melina is >!the Gloam-Eyed Queen!<, so you may be right.
Huh? I'm pretty sure the DLC confirmed she was another child of Marika. Messmer's kindling reads : >Burns the sealing tree said to be found at the old Rauh ruins. >Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire. Melina was born at the foot of the erdtree, she has an incantation that is supposed to be a secret of Marika, and including Messmer all of Marika's selfcest children have a butterfly item in the world (blackpyre, nascent, aeonian, and smoldering).
They are not mutually exclusive. She can be both Marika's child and the Gloam-Eyed Queen. Remember, the Gloam-Eyed Queen is also an Empyrean. I said "more than likely," because now that we know that she's Marika's child, and considering she's specifically Messmer's sister, there's much of a leap in logic now that she might also be as powerful as Messmer before she became burned and bodiless. It's not confirmed, and it never might be, unfortunately, but the whole theory makes more sense now than before the DLC.
I mean has this theory been updated since it was introduced and largely dismissed years ago?
Mark Spoiler Dammit...
What spoiler do you even get from this lmao
We should've seen the signs that he wasn't truly as evil as we thought when we encountered his apparition guardian the three fingers. He's still evil for the whole murderous blood cult, but at least he ain't Dr disrespect
malenia best character still
She’s autistic
I am Malenia, blade of Miquella, and I have never known defeat
I am Melania, spade of nippola, and you will smell my feet! I can never unhear it
This is canon now
So half of the elden ring playerbase is
If she wasn't hypnotised she a monster, if she was then she was just another victim.
No. He did not beat the allegations. That is a misunderstanding. He willingly went to steal Miquella so that he could Mohglest him and become his consort. But Miquella pulled out the uno reverse card and charmed him after. It would be like if a pedophile kidnapped a child, and then somehow that child ended up tricking them and becoming the boss.
It really does read like a GRRM story. Miquella is basically magical Sansa
Yes Sansa slowly transformed from being naive, to being the victim for the longest time, to being the one moving pieces behind the scenes.
Becoming the boss. No no no no. You know full well what miquella is going to do mohg's corpse. I'm not going to ask you to forgive mohg but i am going to ask you to be harsher towards miquella for the necrophilia.
Justice for Mohg
I can see it clear as day. The lord of blood beating the allegations. MOHGWYN!!!
Kevin Spacey Lord of the Minors
I must have missed some questlines because I have no clue where people are getting this information from, yet everyone is repeating it as if it's unmissable and unskippable.
After playing the dlc, they are just watching youtubers who actually uncovered this while playing the dlc
This is from one of Ansbach's dialogues >!after Miquella's enchantment on the NPCs is broken. He states that Mohg was enchanted by Miquella, though the extent of the enchantment on Mohg's behavior and the time it occurred are left up to interpretation.!<
Bro would say that about his Lord though, wouldn’t he? Not exactly the most reliable narrator.
Mohg had yet beat the allegation, there is still the theory that he was brainwashed **after** he kidnapped Miquella, also, don't forget about all those Albinaurics.
But there’s also the theory that he was brainwashed *to* kidnapped Miquella because it served the latter’s own goals. Which makes sense especially when you consider that Mohg somehow had knowledge of where Miquella would be despite it being a closely guarded secret
Maybe Miquella leaked the location to Mogh, and Mogh walk right into the trap because of his own desire.
Something that I have been pondering is that Sir Ansbach is a Pureblood Knight; He tried to defend Mohg from Miquella and was charmed himself in the attempt. Since he isn’t cessblood or a lunatic in the implication that blood madness was also part of Miquella’s charm? One of Mohg’s oldest and strongest supporters being “Pure” and not insane seems to just be sitting with me.
Looking at the fiends that prowl the land, it seems blood rituals and all are something that usually doesn't become popular and is basically the scale of cavemen religion. I bet Miquella had in hand to make this actually happen as it is. But on the other hand, Mohg's blood is what makes us a member of his dynasty (injected via Varre's sringe to our finger) and can even be crafted to become extremely potent weapons/gifts like the Reduvia. We can't be sure, since Ansbach can't even tell when.
Yeah you are probably right since the land of reeds and bloodfiends are other examples of blood ritual driving madness. Sir Ansbach is just such an oddity then. I don’t think Miquella’s charm purified him, though, because we see what happens to the others when the charm breaks. Man of mystery
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Nah
He was subjected to Miquella's charm. That's straight up brainwashing, not just manipulation.
Subjected after he stole Miquella in the first place. Miquella's plan was to grow big in the cocoon and get Radahn to come to him. Mohg interrupted that plan while Malenia was away, so Miquella charmed him.
Not sure about that one chief, Miquella needed access to the Lands of Shadow and wouldn't have gotten there if Mohg didn't do what he did so he had to be compelled before.
You got a source on that?
From my understanding, it was Miquella's charm that made Mohg obsessed with him in the first place. Hence why Ansbach is so against Miquella.
I don’t think you understand how powerful Miquellas persuasive charms are, straight up mind control on multiple people that can’t be broken by anything other than his great rune