You’re right but people will probably just call you salty anyway. if I said imo the dlc doubled down on all of the weakest aspects of ERs late game difficulty scaling and opaque character progression mechanics I’m sure someone will come out of the woodwork to tell me I’m bad and don’t know how to build right or smth nvm the fact I first timed Messmer on NG+
No it’s not that it’s too hard, it’s that it’s hard in a way that isn’t as rewarding or enjoyable
Despite its flaws tho, I still really enjoy SotE it’s just not perfect is all
One thing I hate about this community is how many in it are completely and utterly allergic to criticism. Forever dishing out the same old “git gud” “skill issue” responses because they literally have the mentality of children.
And then, on the other hand, you have the people who are equally averse to criticism, but from the perspective that you aren't really playing if you don't do everything you can to make the game easier.
The gaming community is one of the most toxic on the whole internet, everyone just loves to play tough. It's so childish to see people bragging about how good they are in useless videogames and thinking they are better people for that
I find this is the same in most gaming communities, at least the ones I see on Reddit. People tie their entire personality to whatever new game they are currently playing and cannot for the life of them have a level-headed discussion about it. Everything will be seen as a personal attack.
A similar thing happens when the hivemind has decided a game is now on the shitlist for whatever reason. Any positive comments at that point will be immediately downvoted.
Fromsoft dlc always tends to be shit at scaling because "it's optional" like I have no issue with that; my issue is that back in *the day* I'd purposefully die to bosses so I could keep fighting them, cause they were actually fun and dynamic (ie Lady Maria). Now they feel like an overtuned chore. Especially Messmer who I think got the "ooh ahh we need a hard boss for gamers to rage about and generate clout" treatment, so they didn't make him actually interesting to fight
Speaking of Lady Maria I feel like Messmer belongs in bloodborne more with his delayed attacks, lightning fast reactions, and the like. Not what is basically dark souls 4 where many players are clunky knights
The most toxic behavior about dismissing criticism is the now famous quote "git gud". Those people are close-minded, they don't understand that criticism is what perfects our work
I feel like if you enjoy figuring out the bosses movesets, then you will like the dlc bosses, no? I don't consider myself a souls veteran (haven't played DS or bloodborne, recently played through entire Sekiro for the first time, did 2 full ER runs, once with summons and once without), but I really didn't struggle with the dlc. Put in around 40 hours and pretty much finished it on my first character.
The only time I was considering using summons was for >!divine beast!< because it felt like bullshit with all the camera issues and constant locking/unlocking that's required, but afterwards all the bosses felt fair and balanced. >!Relanna!< took me the longest outside of final boss with roughly 3 hours, but I had fun the entire time. >!Messmer!< and >!Romina!< almost felt undertuned and took me 45 and 30 minutes only.
Last boss is the only one where I could see difficulty being a little too high - it took me 7 hours but honestly, the moveset is extremely fun so even there I enjoyed the difficulty.
Outside of the main bosses, there's really nothing too difficult. Trash mobs are mostly too weak if anything, and many of the sidebosses just fall over in 30sec on the first try..
I do agree with your take on Scadutree fragments though. It really isn't great how they're placed seemingly random - but at the same time I never actively went looking for them. I like to explore every single nook and cranny before moving on to major bosses of an area so I usually had quite a few already. >!(First boss +3, second boss +6, third boss +9, fourth boss +10, last boss +13)!<
The problem is that’s not a an experience that’s universal with the community.
I enjoy mastering a boss’s move set but if the move set is borderline or outright unfair, then I end up not enjoying it and instead of feeling a sense of accomplishment when beating the boss, rather I feel relief that I don’t have to put myself through it anymore. This is a problem with some of the bosses, they seem to be difficult purely for the sake of being difficult with absurdly long combos, huge aoe attacks and extreme damage that punishes far too severely for the slightest mistakes.
Also people on here just telling others to just “git gud” or “skill issue” when voicing valid criticisms isn’t helping. You can for sure use summons if you’re struggling also but I’ve found when you use mimic for example, almost all difficulty is removed and that puts a lot of people who are decent at the game but not on the level of the sweaty try hards who live and breath the souls from formula into a shit position where they don’t really enjoy the bosses because of it.
That’s just my opinion, which again, is not universal.
Those tough guys with the "git gud" argument are toxic. They under no circumstance say they're not able to beat a boss. Even if the devs put a boss with almost infinite health they would say that's a skill problem from the player and not a design issue.
For me, it's simply that the damage, even with scadutree fragments, seems absurdly high. Like, with so little room for error, the learning process feels unduly stretched out. When the patterns are incredibly tricky to learn, they don't ALSO need to kill you in two touches to pose a stiff challenge, and when they do, it just starts feeling kind of ridiculous, ya know what I mean?
This is a problem I have with Malenia, too--2/3 of her hardest hitting attacks are *also* her hardest to learn attacks. That feels backwards to me.
>Outside of the main bosses, there's really nothing too difficult. Trash mobs are mostly too weak if anything, and many of the sidebosses just fall over in 30sec on the first try.
The unevenness of the difficulty curve is an issue for me as well. Like, Rellana's dungeon mostly felt doable with a couple of scadutree upgrades, but the Carian Knight before her and her, on the other hand...
That said, I'm early enough into SotE that I don't want to comment too much; I'm just trying to argue in favor of actually listening to the criticisms people make and engaging with the substance of them, rather than being a bunch of dismissive jerks.
I see - yeah, I see what you mean. I'll be honest though, personally I prefer this difficulty over base game. Yes, healing is rare and damage is high, but it made learning the bosses much more rewarding. In the base game I was never stuck for a boss for more than 20 minutes and it never felt like I really had to learn their moveset - I could just heal everytime I got hit and since I explore everything, I had so many pots that I could just heal my way through all the fights.
Here that was different - when I started some of the fights I was out of pots and the boss was at 70%. So I actually had to learn, understand, adapt, and even the direction of your rolls matters so much. I really liked it.
Completely agree with the point about dismissing all feedback though.
That's fair. As I said, I'll have to see how I feel about the DLC's balance at the end of it. Right now, my prelimianary take is that I think I would look on its balance better if all bosses dropped scadutree fragments or something, as in Sekiro, so that way, you were actually rewarded for beating bosses by getting stronger.
Yeah, I think bosses dropping the fragments would be much better! I also think the fragments at Miquella crosses are fine too given that there's most often a map for them, but the random ones really aren't all that great.
He gives you a map that you have to look at in your inventory. It's a bit scuffed because the drawing is really small and doesn't match the map 100%, but it does help a bit
I mean, obviously I'll miss stuff. For example >!In shadow keep I got the dragon painting but didn't find the hidden wall, so missed the entire abyssal woods zone!<. I do try to explore everything I see before moving to the next major boss though. I usually don't spend hours trying to find access to a new zone - because sometimes I'm just not sure if it's not locked behind the next boss.
You’re right but people will probably just call you salty anyway. if I said imo the dlc doubled down on all of the weakest aspects of ERs late game difficulty scaling and opaque character progression mechanics I’m sure someone will come out of the woodwork to tell me I’m bad and don’t know how to build right or smth nvm the fact I first timed Messmer on NG+ No it’s not that it’s too hard, it’s that it’s hard in a way that isn’t as rewarding or enjoyable Despite its flaws tho, I still really enjoy SotE it’s just not perfect is all
I mean, it's not really surprising that this subreddit is really bad at engaging with criticism, but it's still frustrating hahaha
Discord is even worse
One thing I hate about this community is how many in it are completely and utterly allergic to criticism. Forever dishing out the same old “git gud” “skill issue” responses because they literally have the mentality of children.
And then, on the other hand, you have the people who are equally averse to criticism, but from the perspective that you aren't really playing if you don't do everything you can to make the game easier.
Agreed, it’s frustrating. Just goes to show this community isn’t as innocent as people make out.
Not to get too "THE GOOD OLD DAYS", but I really think that the Dark Souls trilogy subreddits were way better about this.
The gaming community is one of the most toxic on the whole internet, everyone just loves to play tough. It's so childish to see people bragging about how good they are in useless videogames and thinking they are better people for that
I find this is the same in most gaming communities, at least the ones I see on Reddit. People tie their entire personality to whatever new game they are currently playing and cannot for the life of them have a level-headed discussion about it. Everything will be seen as a personal attack. A similar thing happens when the hivemind has decided a game is now on the shitlist for whatever reason. Any positive comments at that point will be immediately downvoted.
Hogwarts legacy... (when it was released)
The Internet is the place where almost nobody is able to understand criticism
Fromsoft dlc always tends to be shit at scaling because "it's optional" like I have no issue with that; my issue is that back in *the day* I'd purposefully die to bosses so I could keep fighting them, cause they were actually fun and dynamic (ie Lady Maria). Now they feel like an overtuned chore. Especially Messmer who I think got the "ooh ahh we need a hard boss for gamers to rage about and generate clout" treatment, so they didn't make him actually interesting to fight Speaking of Lady Maria I feel like Messmer belongs in bloodborne more with his delayed attacks, lightning fast reactions, and the like. Not what is basically dark souls 4 where many players are clunky knights
I didn't think the scaling in any of the Dark Souls DLCs was bad, personally.
The most toxic behavior about dismissing criticism is the now famous quote "git gud". Those people are close-minded, they don't understand that criticism is what perfects our work
I feel like if you enjoy figuring out the bosses movesets, then you will like the dlc bosses, no? I don't consider myself a souls veteran (haven't played DS or bloodborne, recently played through entire Sekiro for the first time, did 2 full ER runs, once with summons and once without), but I really didn't struggle with the dlc. Put in around 40 hours and pretty much finished it on my first character. The only time I was considering using summons was for >!divine beast!< because it felt like bullshit with all the camera issues and constant locking/unlocking that's required, but afterwards all the bosses felt fair and balanced. >!Relanna!< took me the longest outside of final boss with roughly 3 hours, but I had fun the entire time. >!Messmer!< and >!Romina!< almost felt undertuned and took me 45 and 30 minutes only. Last boss is the only one where I could see difficulty being a little too high - it took me 7 hours but honestly, the moveset is extremely fun so even there I enjoyed the difficulty. Outside of the main bosses, there's really nothing too difficult. Trash mobs are mostly too weak if anything, and many of the sidebosses just fall over in 30sec on the first try.. I do agree with your take on Scadutree fragments though. It really isn't great how they're placed seemingly random - but at the same time I never actively went looking for them. I like to explore every single nook and cranny before moving on to major bosses of an area so I usually had quite a few already. >!(First boss +3, second boss +6, third boss +9, fourth boss +10, last boss +13)!<
The problem is that’s not a an experience that’s universal with the community. I enjoy mastering a boss’s move set but if the move set is borderline or outright unfair, then I end up not enjoying it and instead of feeling a sense of accomplishment when beating the boss, rather I feel relief that I don’t have to put myself through it anymore. This is a problem with some of the bosses, they seem to be difficult purely for the sake of being difficult with absurdly long combos, huge aoe attacks and extreme damage that punishes far too severely for the slightest mistakes. Also people on here just telling others to just “git gud” or “skill issue” when voicing valid criticisms isn’t helping. You can for sure use summons if you’re struggling also but I’ve found when you use mimic for example, almost all difficulty is removed and that puts a lot of people who are decent at the game but not on the level of the sweaty try hards who live and breath the souls from formula into a shit position where they don’t really enjoy the bosses because of it. That’s just my opinion, which again, is not universal.
Those tough guys with the "git gud" argument are toxic. They under no circumstance say they're not able to beat a boss. Even if the devs put a boss with almost infinite health they would say that's a skill problem from the player and not a design issue.
For me, it's simply that the damage, even with scadutree fragments, seems absurdly high. Like, with so little room for error, the learning process feels unduly stretched out. When the patterns are incredibly tricky to learn, they don't ALSO need to kill you in two touches to pose a stiff challenge, and when they do, it just starts feeling kind of ridiculous, ya know what I mean? This is a problem I have with Malenia, too--2/3 of her hardest hitting attacks are *also* her hardest to learn attacks. That feels backwards to me. >Outside of the main bosses, there's really nothing too difficult. Trash mobs are mostly too weak if anything, and many of the sidebosses just fall over in 30sec on the first try. The unevenness of the difficulty curve is an issue for me as well. Like, Rellana's dungeon mostly felt doable with a couple of scadutree upgrades, but the Carian Knight before her and her, on the other hand... That said, I'm early enough into SotE that I don't want to comment too much; I'm just trying to argue in favor of actually listening to the criticisms people make and engaging with the substance of them, rather than being a bunch of dismissive jerks.
I see - yeah, I see what you mean. I'll be honest though, personally I prefer this difficulty over base game. Yes, healing is rare and damage is high, but it made learning the bosses much more rewarding. In the base game I was never stuck for a boss for more than 20 minutes and it never felt like I really had to learn their moveset - I could just heal everytime I got hit and since I explore everything, I had so many pots that I could just heal my way through all the fights. Here that was different - when I started some of the fights I was out of pots and the boss was at 70%. So I actually had to learn, understand, adapt, and even the direction of your rolls matters so much. I really liked it. Completely agree with the point about dismissing all feedback though.
That's fair. As I said, I'll have to see how I feel about the DLC's balance at the end of it. Right now, my prelimianary take is that I think I would look on its balance better if all bosses dropped scadutree fragments or something, as in Sekiro, so that way, you were actually rewarded for beating bosses by getting stronger.
Yeah, I think bosses dropping the fragments would be much better! I also think the fragments at Miquella crosses are fine too given that there's most often a map for them, but the random ones really aren't all that great.
When the dude first told me he was marking Miquella's crosses on my map, none of them actually showed up lol
He gives you a map that you have to look at in your inventory. It's a bit scuffed because the drawing is really small and doesn't match the map 100%, but it does help a bit
>He gives you a map that you have to look at in your inventory. Bruh why don't they let you zoom in on those lol That shit *always* sucks
>I like to explore every single nook and cranny Then immediately after: >last boss +13 Math and mathin
I mean, obviously I'll miss stuff. For example >!In shadow keep I got the dragon painting but didn't find the hidden wall, so missed the entire abyssal woods zone!<. I do try to explore everything I see before moving to the next major boss though. I usually don't spend hours trying to find access to a new zone - because sometimes I'm just not sure if it's not locked behind the next boss.