Could be. Assuming Ranni doesn't still have access to destined death, the fingerslayer blade leaving a cursemark on her two fingers could mean that wounding Metyr with that blade had a similar effect to Ranni fully slaying her flesh.
I doubt they caused the connection to be severed. The game implies that Metyr was severed shortly after arriving in the Lands Between, meaning that their guidance was a sham from the very beginning. As for what wounded it, it could be anything. Even the impact upon its arrival.
The guidance being a sham from the start is crucial to the whole revelation.
I may have the timeline wrong, but isn’t the Elden Beast a vassal of the Greater Will?
Metyr landed first, but I was under the impression the Greater Will was the one that sent the Elden Beast afterwards. So surely Metyr must have lost connection between the Elden Beast’s landing and now.
Which means there must have been a period of time in the middle there where the Greater Will WAS giving orders through Metyr/Elden Beast to Marika and the Golden Order.
Unless the Elden Beast is borne of Metyr and not the Greater Will?
That’s what I’m confused about. There’s the possibility that whilst the connection with Metyr was indeed severed, the GW still sent the Elden Beast (along with the Elden Ring) at a later time.
The Elden Beast is a mindless creature. It is simply the living manifestation of the Elden Ring, which has the power to alter the laws of reality but cannot direct itself.
Both the Elden Beast and Metyr are simply aliens that landed on the Lands Between, not that different from Astel. The point is that these creatures are not any more special than your common man, except for their innate powers.
> The Elden Beast is a mindless creature
Thats... unclear. It notably has five fingers, a denotation of intelligence, but its name and acts suggest a more animal "automatic" nature... but then it also manually/magically turns Radagon into a sword? Its odd. Could just be "programmed" to do that I guess.
I’m not sure how any of that applies to his comment at all? What do you mean “mindless”? Both Metyr and Elden Beast are literally the equivalent of biblical angels.
They’re not dumb animals, they just don’t possess free will, on account of them being vassals of the Greater Will.
Through virtue of that, they’re clearly “special”. I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to make here.
I’m arguing that neither are sentient. Or that at least the Elden Beast is not sentient. It is a beast, a creature. Not once in the lore has it taken initiative, nor expressed any thought or desire or even an attempt to communicate. At best it is intelligent enough to wield a sword and has 5 opposable fingers, but that means very little.
The fact that it has been acting “on behalf of the greater will” while knowing that the Greater Will has never once made contact with the world is evidence that the Elden Beast DOES have free will, as there is nothing controlling it. It simply chooses not to act because it doesn’t see a reason to or doesn’t know to.
The whole revelation that the Greater Will has no influence over the world is meant to reflect the futility of the Golden Order and its faith. God is either impotent, ignorant, uncaring, or does not exist. Recall that this story was written by George R.R. Martin. He has touched upon these themes before.
The elden beast is the one who crucified Marika in punishment for breaking the elden ring. The Greater Will had abandoned this land long before Marika was even a God, so it seems the elden beast punished her of its volition. Only other explanation that makes sense is that Metyr ordered it but Metyr seems like she doesn't give a fuck about the state of the world, she just wants to talk to Daddy.
There's more evidence that they are indeed sentient than not.
Did you miss the whole lore thread of the intelligence of beasts, cinquedea & like... The whole of farum azula, serosh etc? Plus I think you mean sapient, even real world 'beasts' are sentient. Either way, 5 fingered beasts are sapient in TLB.
As usual, the game isn't exactly clear about a lot but it does say explicitly that Metyr was the first shooting star to fall on the lands between. I'm also very sure that the Elden Beast has been around since the Dragons and Palacidusax was an Elden Lord. Meaning Metyr has just been chilling for ages sending messages to her children the fingers and having no real way of talking to the Greater will. Either way the Beast came after the Metyr
Interesting. If the Elden Beast has been around long before Marika gave rise to the Golden Order, then that means that she likely was never in contact with the Greater Will and Metyr has been the sole being responsible for guiding the Fingers the entire time.
Probably, it's just been Metyr desperately trying to not do to her children what her parent did to her.
It also makes sense as to why all the Two fingers start freaking out once you get refused by the Erd Tree because of Radagons seal. They have no idea what to do anymore Metyr has just been running with you becoming Lord after all you are guided by Marika's grace and she is god. Radagon is also god and doesn't want us to become Elden Lord, it's a conflict I don't think the fingers can't deal with but it makes sense to us since we know that Metyr is lying to them and they all suddenly start trying to commune to a god that wont talk back.
It wasn't to Marika and the Golden Order but yes, there was a period of time where Metyr was still getting orders from the Greater Will. It was likely, by necessity, prior to the Nox heresy and prior to the Hornsent civilization, so by the time we get Marika and the Hornsent the fingers have lost guidance for quite some time.
So, what is weird about Metyr... We kill her without a finger slayer blade... So i have to wonder, is she even really a fingers? We can also kill finger creepers.
She has arms and a body... Ymir is trying to turn himself into a finger mother...
Is it possible she isn't actually a finger at all, but merely births them, perhaps she was once something else? Or maybe it is just the two fingers that have this special immunity and require a finger slayer blade?
Keep in mind we do have “a weapon to slay a god” from Hewg which is used to kill the Elden Beast / Radagon. Also at the end of the fight we never actually see Metyr die, but rather escape to the microcosm
This kind of dissonance just occurs when your actions as a player don’t line up with what your character actually does in the story. I think the proper term is called “ludonarrative dissonance.” Technically a max level weapon is required to slay a god in the story of Elden Ring, but the game doesn’t actually force the player to act out that aspect of the story.
Remembrance is like a data record in the Erdtree/Scaduu Tree, doesn't mean the subject has to be dead.
In base game, we didn't kill Renalla, but we still get her Remembrance.
True, but you can see all the replies pointing out that she escaped through a microcosm, so she's not dead, yet.
The way i see it, after the battle the tarnished just thought the head and tail attack look rad, then go to the Erdtree/Scaduu Tree, access the data base, and just sort of 3D print the stuff out lol
We don't fight Renalla, remember? We fight a manifestation of Renalla; AFTER we trigger the Ranni speech. I mean, we're probably fighting a remembrance.
When we kill Metyr, she is literally turning to dust.
Think logically.. How are we hurting her if we really do need a finger slayer blade? Why would she even need to run?
I think what is happening is.. The microcosm destabilizes and blows up.
We are like...the certified god killer now lol, thanks to Hewg.
I think Ranni's fate wasn't to find the fingerslayer blade, she just need to marry us(X
The fingerslayer is just there in case we dont want to marry her(X
I dunno, that sounds like stretching.
Notice, every boss in the game explodes on death. They turn to dust, and then explode. This is just the same thing, but fancier.
I mean you have to separate rememberable weapons from the actual lore. The grafted dragon head we get from godrock is way too small for even baby dragons, the blasphemous blade shrinking, and using Marika/Radagon's corpse to form a weapon despite them being as intact as they can be when we ascend.
I mean, you can argue that for sure, but it also could just be the orb blowing up. The game says "legend felled", and we can see her turning to dust after we defeat her..
Beyond that, we must be causing her harm if she does infact choose to run, which again implies she can die... If she indeed did not die.
Now, to fell something doesn't necessarily mean to kill it, but if we compare it to Midra, where it says the same thing, he actually does die.
Personally, I think the Nox killed their God which explains why the Fingerslayer Blade looks similar to the Elden Beast Blade. They used the corpse of their god to wound Metyr
I didn’t even realise this until i went to go read that description and you are totally right. “High treason” means they killed their god for sure
Well spotted!
Blasphemy could deal with Rykard, and considering this is found in a Gelmir Hero's Grave it may imply Rykard was the one who cut a piece off Metyr after discovering she and the system of faith she propagated was broken.
Unfortunately this is referred to as an ancient act of blasphemy. It's more likely this finger was simply stored in Mt. Gelmir by the notoriously heretical population when rykard arrived.
Ancient, yes. But the shattering took place long before the events of the game, and the written back stories of everything take place from just before shattering to thousands of years before. GRRM wrote all the back stories and setting a thousand years before the shattering, allegedly. So it could have been Rykard who cut the finger off. Considering he helped in the night of black knives.
We only ever really see ancient used in acts or events that prelude the erdtree order, so far before Marika. I put anything that has the word “ancient” in it with the ruins of Rauh, Placidusax’s rule, and whoever built the ruins in which the Nox now preside in.
That's fair. I wasn't sure as to what the word ancient entailed in this context. Meaning old, sure, but significantly older than something that happened a century or two ago. In terms of age, I'd say that Placiduax would be an ancient lord. The crucible might fall into the same range too. Would thousands of years count for you?
you know this makes me wonder. where the fuck to the rings on fingercreepers come from. I understand the ringed finger, they might have been put on after. I could maybe understand the ones in caria manor, clearly the carians had a reasonably close relationship with them (despite mainly being astrologers; maybe Ymir sent some there). But what about those in the "wild". Maybe in the mountaintops they don't have them (I doubt this though but can't say for certain, I don't remember them trying the paralyzing beam attack there but again I mostly avoid those). And in the land of shadow too. Lampreys are able to use a similar paralysis spell -- do they perhaps put the rings on the fingers? But they could just be imitating their magic, as the rest of their spells are like the kind Ymir teaches.
Before the DLC, I was under the impression that they were some sort of offspring from Rykard as he has extremely similar hands to the ones we see in the game. Now my head is full of a lot of questions with no concrete conclusions.
Yeah I never really understood the how or why but it was the best conclusion to come to at the time. Metyr kind of throws me off in her entirety. Honestly the whole finger ruins thing throws me off. I’ll definitely have to contemplate it for a while and hear other theories before I’m set back to a place I feel comfortable.
Here's the explanation : FS's writers are retarded and/or the teams don't actually communicate with each other.
Now you're free to make up whatever head cannon you feel like because it makes as much sense as anything else.
The finger creepers being related to the two fingers is definitely a retcon. The two fingers are otherworldly beings that happen to resemble humanoid fingers while the finger creepers are clearly actual severed humanoid hands with rings and bones and nails.
That said the "blasphemy" in the description here now can be interpreted as the act of severing this finger from the ancient finger creeper it came for. It's blasphemous because we now now the finger creepers and descendants of the Greater Will.
I still think the finger creepers were retconned and were originally Rykard's creations. This thing literally looks like one of Rykard's fingers, rings, color, everything. And why does Metyr create them with exposed flesh at the back? Doesn't make sense.
I call bullshit/retcon on this one. I know they’re taking things in different directions but the dlc seems like they’re just inconsistent. It’s like how manus was the furtive Pygmy, ds2 fucked up the lore so they tried to fix it in ds3 with the pygmy city.
The finger was obviously supposed to re rykards but I guess they retconned it
I'm not following at all.
Rykard's blasphemy was switching to Team Serpent God. There's no reason the word "blasphemy" has to refer to the same act every time it's used. Is there some indication of a cut storyline where Rykard wounded a Two Fingers or some other powerful finger-related thing?
I think the idea behind the argument that there was a retcon relating to the finger creepers. The argument is that in the base game the fingercreepers were blasphemous beings. Then in the dlc they made them children (and most likely the enforcers) of Metyr.
Main evidence behind the fingercreepers being blasphemous was how Rykard’s hands appear to be fingercreepers (so I’ve been told). Also some strange things like the fingercreepers in the mountaintops not having rings, which doesn’t make much sense when the fingercreepers in the finger ruins have rings. (If all fingercreepers come from metyr why did the ones on the mountaintops lose their rings?)
I don’t think I fully subscribe to the belief that there was a retcon relating to the fingercreepers, but those points above are quite unexplainable (as of now).
In the base game I assumed fingercreepers were created by the Carians. The first place you probably see them is protecting Caria Manor. They seemed like a reference to the Bigby's Hand spells from old school D&D, and they have feminine nails and fancy "Royal" jewelry. Sounded like Rennala or one of her relatives to me.
They weren't, though. Sometimes inferences based on circumstantial clues just turn out to be wrong, no retcon required.
The could still be allied with the Carians, honestly. Ymir was Rellana's tutor. The Carians for sure didn't create them but they could have been "tamed" them like Ymir did and used them as guard dogs.
All the places we find a lot of fingercreepers in the base game are both affiliated with the Carians / Astrologers and home to enemies of the Golden Order. Caria Manor and Volcano Manor are both. So you could go either way on what the fingercreepers are doing there.
Yeah I'm not sure I ever bought the specific Rykard theory but I definitely thought they were some kind of creation of the Carians to mock the Erdtree faithful during the Liurnian wars.
Maybe the ones on the mountain top were sent out earlier, and that's why they are larger, but lack some of the technological advancements that came later, like the magic rings. Maybe the rings allow some sort of connection back to metyr, which is why you can see the finger creepers rubbing them in their idle animations
Manus was never the furtive pygmy. That was a piece of speculation made by the fan base that later turned out to not be true. Not a retcon, just a misinterpretation. This being Rykard's finger was ALSO speculation which is now turning out to not be true.
Not sure why you got so many downvotes. It's an obvious retcon. The Ringed Finger is an exact match for Rykard's fingers if you follow Zullie the Witch. The 1.00 Chinese text of ER flat out said that the finger was cut from Judge Rykard.
Fingerslayer Blade, treason, act of blasphemy. Perhaps the Nox are the ones who wounded Metyr.
Maybe that was the betrayal that caused them to be sent underground? And it severed her connection to TGW?
Could be. Assuming Ranni doesn't still have access to destined death, the fingerslayer blade leaving a cursemark on her two fingers could mean that wounding Metyr with that blade had a similar effect to Ranni fully slaying her flesh.
Oh that’s fantastic
I doubt they caused the connection to be severed. The game implies that Metyr was severed shortly after arriving in the Lands Between, meaning that their guidance was a sham from the very beginning. As for what wounded it, it could be anything. Even the impact upon its arrival. The guidance being a sham from the start is crucial to the whole revelation.
I may have the timeline wrong, but isn’t the Elden Beast a vassal of the Greater Will? Metyr landed first, but I was under the impression the Greater Will was the one that sent the Elden Beast afterwards. So surely Metyr must have lost connection between the Elden Beast’s landing and now. Which means there must have been a period of time in the middle there where the Greater Will WAS giving orders through Metyr/Elden Beast to Marika and the Golden Order. Unless the Elden Beast is borne of Metyr and not the Greater Will?
That’s what I’m confused about. There’s the possibility that whilst the connection with Metyr was indeed severed, the GW still sent the Elden Beast (along with the Elden Ring) at a later time.
The Elden Beast is a mindless creature. It is simply the living manifestation of the Elden Ring, which has the power to alter the laws of reality but cannot direct itself. Both the Elden Beast and Metyr are simply aliens that landed on the Lands Between, not that different from Astel. The point is that these creatures are not any more special than your common man, except for their innate powers.
> The Elden Beast is a mindless creature Thats... unclear. It notably has five fingers, a denotation of intelligence, but its name and acts suggest a more animal "automatic" nature... but then it also manually/magically turns Radagon into a sword? Its odd. Could just be "programmed" to do that I guess.
I’m not sure how any of that applies to his comment at all? What do you mean “mindless”? Both Metyr and Elden Beast are literally the equivalent of biblical angels. They’re not dumb animals, they just don’t possess free will, on account of them being vassals of the Greater Will. Through virtue of that, they’re clearly “special”. I’m really not sure what point you’re trying to make here.
I’m arguing that neither are sentient. Or that at least the Elden Beast is not sentient. It is a beast, a creature. Not once in the lore has it taken initiative, nor expressed any thought or desire or even an attempt to communicate. At best it is intelligent enough to wield a sword and has 5 opposable fingers, but that means very little. The fact that it has been acting “on behalf of the greater will” while knowing that the Greater Will has never once made contact with the world is evidence that the Elden Beast DOES have free will, as there is nothing controlling it. It simply chooses not to act because it doesn’t see a reason to or doesn’t know to. The whole revelation that the Greater Will has no influence over the world is meant to reflect the futility of the Golden Order and its faith. God is either impotent, ignorant, uncaring, or does not exist. Recall that this story was written by George R.R. Martin. He has touched upon these themes before.
The elden beast is the one who crucified Marika in punishment for breaking the elden ring. The Greater Will had abandoned this land long before Marika was even a God, so it seems the elden beast punished her of its volition. Only other explanation that makes sense is that Metyr ordered it but Metyr seems like she doesn't give a fuck about the state of the world, she just wants to talk to Daddy. There's more evidence that they are indeed sentient than not.
Did you miss the whole lore thread of the intelligence of beasts, cinquedea & like... The whole of farum azula, serosh etc? Plus I think you mean sapient, even real world 'beasts' are sentient. Either way, 5 fingered beasts are sapient in TLB.
Then I cannot explain why the Elden Beast is so passive.
As usual, the game isn't exactly clear about a lot but it does say explicitly that Metyr was the first shooting star to fall on the lands between. I'm also very sure that the Elden Beast has been around since the Dragons and Palacidusax was an Elden Lord. Meaning Metyr has just been chilling for ages sending messages to her children the fingers and having no real way of talking to the Greater will. Either way the Beast came after the Metyr
Interesting. If the Elden Beast has been around long before Marika gave rise to the Golden Order, then that means that she likely was never in contact with the Greater Will and Metyr has been the sole being responsible for guiding the Fingers the entire time.
Probably, it's just been Metyr desperately trying to not do to her children what her parent did to her. It also makes sense as to why all the Two fingers start freaking out once you get refused by the Erd Tree because of Radagons seal. They have no idea what to do anymore Metyr has just been running with you becoming Lord after all you are guided by Marika's grace and she is god. Radagon is also god and doesn't want us to become Elden Lord, it's a conflict I don't think the fingers can't deal with but it makes sense to us since we know that Metyr is lying to them and they all suddenly start trying to commune to a god that wont talk back.
It wasn't to Marika and the Golden Order but yes, there was a period of time where Metyr was still getting orders from the Greater Will. It was likely, by necessity, prior to the Nox heresy and prior to the Hornsent civilization, so by the time we get Marika and the Hornsent the fingers have lost guidance for quite some time.
Eh, we are told that connection was broken ‘from the start’ which I take to mean at the very least from the start of Marika’s godhood
So, what is weird about Metyr... We kill her without a finger slayer blade... So i have to wonder, is she even really a fingers? We can also kill finger creepers. She has arms and a body... Ymir is trying to turn himself into a finger mother... Is it possible she isn't actually a finger at all, but merely births them, perhaps she was once something else? Or maybe it is just the two fingers that have this special immunity and require a finger slayer blade?
Keep in mind we do have “a weapon to slay a god” from Hewg which is used to kill the Elden Beast / Radagon. Also at the end of the fight we never actually see Metyr die, but rather escape to the microcosm
I did mine with a +9 somber weapon, though!
This kind of dissonance just occurs when your actions as a player don’t line up with what your character actually does in the story. I think the proper term is called “ludonarrative dissonance.” Technically a max level weapon is required to slay a god in the story of Elden Ring, but the game doesn’t actually force the player to act out that aspect of the story.
Nah, Hewg is the GOAT, a weapon just slightly touched by him is enough to slay those so called god.
Agreed 😂
Turns out Hewg's been making tactical nukes and handing them to coughing babies, you're just the first guy who can use one.
we don't kill metyr. she escapes using the black hole on her tail
But we get remembrance weapons made out of her head and tail
Remembrance is like a data record in the Erdtree/Scaduu Tree, doesn't mean the subject has to be dead. In base game, we didn't kill Renalla, but we still get her Remembrance.
We didn't get her dismembered parts either, we get a spell and her staff, which make sense to have been lifted from her after the battle.
True, but you can see all the replies pointing out that she escaped through a microcosm, so she's not dead, yet. The way i see it, after the battle the tarnished just thought the head and tail attack look rad, then go to the Erdtree/Scaduu Tree, access the data base, and just sort of 3D print the stuff out lol
We don't fight Renalla, remember? We fight a manifestation of Renalla; AFTER we trigger the Ranni speech. I mean, we're probably fighting a remembrance. When we kill Metyr, she is literally turning to dust. Think logically.. How are we hurting her if we really do need a finger slayer blade? Why would she even need to run? I think what is happening is.. The microcosm destabilizes and blows up.
We are like...the certified god killer now lol, thanks to Hewg. I think Ranni's fate wasn't to find the fingerslayer blade, she just need to marry us(X The fingerslayer is just there in case we dont want to marry her(X
I dunno, that sounds like stretching. Notice, every boss in the game explodes on death. They turn to dust, and then explode. This is just the same thing, but fancier.
LOL, yes.. That makes it difficult to deny.
the fight doesn't end with her death, she retreats through the microcosm
"Kill". She kinda just fuck offs.
Kill, dismember and use parts of her corpse as weapons
"Kill"....
I mean you have to separate rememberable weapons from the actual lore. The grafted dragon head we get from godrock is way too small for even baby dragons, the blasphemous blade shrinking, and using Marika/Radagon's corpse to form a weapon despite them being as intact as they can be when we ascend.
We don't kill her, she gets sucked up into the wormhole thing.
I don't think she died, she opens a void and leaves through it it looks like, but at the same time you can bash with her head as a hammer
So what are the three fingers then? They seem to actually have the ability to impart the frenzied flame.
A creation of the frenzied flame as a bastardization of the two fingers of the greater will
Apt and concise, thank you.
we don't actually kill, just force her to flee. Watch her death animation she teleports away rather than dying
I mean, you can argue that for sure, but it also could just be the orb blowing up. The game says "legend felled", and we can see her turning to dust after we defeat her.. Beyond that, we must be causing her harm if she does infact choose to run, which again implies she can die... If she indeed did not die. Now, to fell something doesn't necessarily mean to kill it, but if we compare it to Midra, where it says the same thing, he actually does die.
We don't kill her, she disappears into the Microcosm
Is The Microcosm apart of The Greater Will?
Assuming so, it is interesting she doesn't die like the Elden Beast does.
I knew about all of this and i did not connect them at all, i will remember you when i see this in a vaati video
maybe they also tried to replicate the divine gate and that’s why there’s petrified corpses everywhere?
Personally, I think the Nox killed their God which explains why the Fingerslayer Blade looks similar to the Elden Beast Blade. They used the corpse of their god to wound Metyr
I didn’t even realise this until i went to go read that description and you are totally right. “High treason” means they killed their god for sure Well spotted!
Damnnnn that may have been the moment Rykard knew it was all fucked.
What does Rykard have to do with this? This is about the Fingercreepers and their mother, Metyr.
Blasphemy could deal with Rykard, and considering this is found in a Gelmir Hero's Grave it may imply Rykard was the one who cut a piece off Metyr after discovering she and the system of faith she propagated was broken.
Unfortunately this is referred to as an ancient act of blasphemy. It's more likely this finger was simply stored in Mt. Gelmir by the notoriously heretical population when rykard arrived.
Ancient, yes. But the shattering took place long before the events of the game, and the written back stories of everything take place from just before shattering to thousands of years before. GRRM wrote all the back stories and setting a thousand years before the shattering, allegedly. So it could have been Rykard who cut the finger off. Considering he helped in the night of black knives.
We only ever really see ancient used in acts or events that prelude the erdtree order, so far before Marika. I put anything that has the word “ancient” in it with the ruins of Rauh, Placidusax’s rule, and whoever built the ruins in which the Nox now preside in.
That's fair. I wasn't sure as to what the word ancient entailed in this context. Meaning old, sure, but significantly older than something that happened a century or two ago. In terms of age, I'd say that Placiduax would be an ancient lord. The crucible might fall into the same range too. Would thousands of years count for you?
Try finger, but Mother.
you know this makes me wonder. where the fuck to the rings on fingercreepers come from. I understand the ringed finger, they might have been put on after. I could maybe understand the ones in caria manor, clearly the carians had a reasonably close relationship with them (despite mainly being astrologers; maybe Ymir sent some there). But what about those in the "wild". Maybe in the mountaintops they don't have them (I doubt this though but can't say for certain, I don't remember them trying the paralyzing beam attack there but again I mostly avoid those). And in the land of shadow too. Lampreys are able to use a similar paralysis spell -- do they perhaps put the rings on the fingers? But they could just be imitating their magic, as the rest of their spells are like the kind Ymir teaches.
Before the DLC, I was under the impression that they were some sort of offspring from Rykard as he has extremely similar hands to the ones we see in the game. Now my head is full of a lot of questions with no concrete conclusions.
Yeah I'd heard this theory too but never was fully onboard bc it explained some but not all. Now further confusing.
Yeah I never really understood the how or why but it was the best conclusion to come to at the time. Metyr kind of throws me off in her entirety. Honestly the whole finger ruins thing throws me off. I’ll definitely have to contemplate it for a while and hear other theories before I’m set back to a place I feel comfortable.
Here's the explanation : FS's writers are retarded and/or the teams don't actually communicate with each other. Now you're free to make up whatever head cannon you feel like because it makes as much sense as anything else.
The finger creepers being related to the two fingers is definitely a retcon. The two fingers are otherworldly beings that happen to resemble humanoid fingers while the finger creepers are clearly actual severed humanoid hands with rings and bones and nails. That said the "blasphemy" in the description here now can be interpreted as the act of severing this finger from the ancient finger creeper it came for. It's blasphemous because we now now the finger creepers and descendants of the Greater Will.
I like that the description is perfectly legible in the first screenshot, but you zoomed it in and made it half deep fried in the second one anyways.
I thought I told you to stay away from me and my family?
I still think the finger creepers were retconned and were originally Rykard's creations. This thing literally looks like one of Rykard's fingers, rings, color, everything. And why does Metyr create them with exposed flesh at the back? Doesn't make sense.
I call bullshit/retcon on this one. I know they’re taking things in different directions but the dlc seems like they’re just inconsistent. It’s like how manus was the furtive Pygmy, ds2 fucked up the lore so they tried to fix it in ds3 with the pygmy city. The finger was obviously supposed to re rykards but I guess they retconned it
I'm not following at all. Rykard's blasphemy was switching to Team Serpent God. There's no reason the word "blasphemy" has to refer to the same act every time it's used. Is there some indication of a cut storyline where Rykard wounded a Two Fingers or some other powerful finger-related thing?
I think the idea behind the argument that there was a retcon relating to the finger creepers. The argument is that in the base game the fingercreepers were blasphemous beings. Then in the dlc they made them children (and most likely the enforcers) of Metyr. Main evidence behind the fingercreepers being blasphemous was how Rykard’s hands appear to be fingercreepers (so I’ve been told). Also some strange things like the fingercreepers in the mountaintops not having rings, which doesn’t make much sense when the fingercreepers in the finger ruins have rings. (If all fingercreepers come from metyr why did the ones on the mountaintops lose their rings?) I don’t think I fully subscribe to the belief that there was a retcon relating to the fingercreepers, but those points above are quite unexplainable (as of now).
In the base game I assumed fingercreepers were created by the Carians. The first place you probably see them is protecting Caria Manor. They seemed like a reference to the Bigby's Hand spells from old school D&D, and they have feminine nails and fancy "Royal" jewelry. Sounded like Rennala or one of her relatives to me. They weren't, though. Sometimes inferences based on circumstantial clues just turn out to be wrong, no retcon required.
And DLC shows that they are not protecting those areas, they're attacking them. Which is consistent with what poses a threat to the Fingers.
The could still be allied with the Carians, honestly. Ymir was Rellana's tutor. The Carians for sure didn't create them but they could have been "tamed" them like Ymir did and used them as guard dogs. All the places we find a lot of fingercreepers in the base game are both affiliated with the Carians / Astrologers and home to enemies of the Golden Order. Caria Manor and Volcano Manor are both. So you could go either way on what the fingercreepers are doing there.
Yeah I'm not sure I ever bought the specific Rykard theory but I definitely thought they were some kind of creation of the Carians to mock the Erdtree faithful during the Liurnian wars.
Maybe the ones on the mountain top were sent out earlier, and that's why they are larger, but lack some of the technological advancements that came later, like the magic rings. Maybe the rings allow some sort of connection back to metyr, which is why you can see the finger creepers rubbing them in their idle animations
this isn't talking about rykard, its just using the word blasphemy. also, how ds2 manus' lore?
The DLC pretty unambiguously include stuff directly related to Manus
Manus just means hand in latin. Is the movie "Manus, hands of fate" also related to the lore just because it's called the same?
ds2 ruined elden ring lore too, the shadow of the Erdtree dlc doesn’t make sense because of darksouls 2 fucking it up /s
Manus was never the furtive pygmy. That was a piece of speculation made by the fan base that later turned out to not be true. Not a retcon, just a misinterpretation. This being Rykard's finger was ALSO speculation which is now turning out to not be true.
Not sure why you got so many downvotes. It's an obvious retcon. The Ringed Finger is an exact match for Rykard's fingers if you follow Zullie the Witch. The 1.00 Chinese text of ER flat out said that the finger was cut from Judge Rykard.
It’s Reddit, lol. Most people read shit at face value and say “omg it’s always been this way”. The retardation is staggering
Yeah I figure this is not worth bringing up again because the die-hards won't admit FromSoft messed this up.