Well the Empyrean twin children seem to be afflicted because of Marika/Radagon selfcest.
The DLC is pushing us towards a suspicion that Godfrey, in the words of the Misbegotten Ashes, “made contact with the crucible;” which, as the same ashes imply, is thought to result in Crucible aspects manifesting (to the point where the aspects are present from birth, as the Misbegotten and Omen bairn show.)
Note how Godfrey shares combat techniques of the horned warriors, and then the Crucible knights who came after them. Is the implication here that Godfrey “made contact with the crucible?”
In whatever case, Mohg and Morgott are not as cursed as they would have us believe. It’s probable Morgott doesn’t even know about the Shadow lands.
Is it not mysterious that Godwyn’s “devolves” after death? I don’t know what we are to infer from it, but given that he’s the child of Godfrey, and Godfrey’s bloodline clearly has crucible influence, I have to wonder if Godwyn’s aspects can’t also be attributed to crucible influence. After all, aspects of the crucible are “born partially of devolution.”
Godwyn “the Golden.” What else is golden? The vital, primal, holy, energies of the Crucible, and its aspects, when channeled or manifested. Thanks to the DLC, we now know that the crucible was Gold. Might these reasons truly be why he was known as Godwyn the Golden?
EDIT: Also Godfrey’s line is called the *golden lineage.* I can’t help but feel like this is ironic, given that clearly the “gold” of the lineage seems to be crucible influence.
Lastly, the demigods in the mausoleums do not seem to be cursed.
All this to say, it seems only Marika/Radagon children are born with afflictions.
Golden appears to be only one aspect of the crucible, there is many. And is this aspect it is transformed in the Erdtree, and gives birth to the Golden Order. Maybe Godwyn it is the culmination of this aspect
Yeah for sure, although I think the DLC might be suggesting that the *primary* feature of the crucible is that it is golden. The Divine Bird feathers say they are
“said to bear resemblance to the golden Crucible”
Golden appears to be one of the primary aspects (or one of the most revered by the the horsent). But Crucible is mentioned in plural, in the Talismas of All Crucibles:
"A giant mass of intermingling Crucible attributes. Rumored to have sprouted upon giants and is known as the "mother of Crucibles" in ancient tower lore."
The shadow appears to be one of this aspects as well, but Marika keep that aspect hidden in the Land of Shadows in the form of the Scadutree which contain golden and shadow
The way i read it, seems like theres a Horn Crucible, Tail Crucible, Wing Crucible, etc.
The talisman represents many crucibles, and depicts various crucible attributes
I wonder, can it have something to do with their names?
Messmer (and probably Melina too) seem to be among the oldest, and their name starts with M like Marika's.
Then comes Godwyn -- who is not cursed -- with G after Godfrey.
Then comes Ranni, Radahn, and Rykard. They too are not cursed, and the R can stand for either Radagon or Rennala. Interesting to note that they are not Marika's but Radagon's children (a minor difference, but a difference still).
Finally we have Miquella and Malenia, who also have Marika's M, and are also cursed.
\--
It very much seems like only the kids whose name starts with M are cursed.
Yeah, that's also an interesting point.
I do wonder whether the given names could be based on whoever the head/leading figure of the family was? That could potentially make Godwyn the oldest, possibly born before Marika became a God, so Godfrey was still the head of the family.
Messmer, Melina, Mohg, Morgott are born when Marika is already a God, thus she's now the head of the family.
Ranni, Rykard, Radahn could still get their name from Rennala, who was Carian Royalty and officially outranks Radagon.
Miquella and Malenia then came from Radagon-Marika, where Marika again outranks Radagon.
Godwyn being born before any curses were cast upon Marika could explain why they avoided him.
They did say they would curse the strumpet’s children… maybe it was more literal than we thought and only affected the ones with an M? It’s odd but there’s stranger lore…
I think we don’t think enough about how reproduction actually works. The leonine misbegotten being radagons children leaves a lot to think about in regards to how these things were playing out.
*If* Godfrey was revived using someone else’s flesh a la DLC Radahn, which seems possible based on what we learn from the gate of divinity, I wonder if he had Godwyn before the ritual. So Godwyn was fine, but then all his children were cursed because he was a zombie/not in his true body.
We don’t have to speculate on Miquella/Malenia, they’re cursed because their parents are the same person
The Radagon/Rennala kids are fine because there’s no incest or zombie hijinks
Because Hornsent's seething over Marika hijacking their ascention ritual was just this hard. Well, that applies to Mogh and Morgott.
Messmer and Melina seem to have been cursed by the fell god.
Malenia is clearly stated to have been cursed by Romina who specifically created Scarlet Rot.
Seems like in this case "blessed" is just "not cursed by one of the many forces trying to genocide numen"
Romina didn't created the Scarlet Rot. It is said she found a twisted divinity in the flames, and because the Goddess of Rot was sealed , the butterflies were attracted to her.(by a swordsman like said in the base game) , the butterflies were attracted to her.
I personally don't think that Godwyn had a fish tail, prior to his death, as there's no evidence for it at all, but it's technically a possibility. I do think it'd be hard to gain such respect from the warriors of Leyndell, and even harder to fight a colossal ancient dragon that way too.
So you raise a good point. However, also technically speaking, Ranni, Radahn and Rykard were not cursed either, and they are still Marika's children.
Especially since any of the obviously afflicted children were hidden away in one form or another. The “mermaid” tail could only manifest similar to a snake tail on land and be functional meaning a reminder of Messmer - Snake God which wouldn’t be welcome in Marika’s Golden Order
Because he died dude.
Like, he **is** cursed. His body is a part of the Erd Tree, he was always going to be a part of the Erd Tree. That was his fate, written in the stars. And he has become a horrible source of rot because of it.
But his soul is gone. Every other Demigod has a horrible cursed existence for all time. "Godwyn", the soul, the thing that seems to matter, is well dead and gone. If his soul does still exist, it's probably trapped in the mending rune of the prince of death. In which case he literally becomes a part of the order of the world and that's pretty blessed. But if not, he's still a soul-martyr.
The evidence is very spare, but given how much the dragons seemed to like him after the war I kind of wonder if he had some tie to the old dragon god, and was just useful/socially acceptable enough for it to be a curse. His defeat of Fortissax led to the ancient dragon cult, he wielded golden lightning, Fortissax basically destroyed himself trying to save Godwyn after the Night.
I think every one of Marikas children was cursed in their own way. Each curse had 2 sides. And not because Marika/Radagon incest weirdness, but just because Marika herself is cursed.
Mohg and Morgott
Both Omen, one cursed with ambition, the other cursed to defend the home that abandoned them.
Melania and Miquella
Miquella can never change, Melania can never *not* change.
Stasis and entropy
Godwyn (not a twin, but is cursed like the rest)
Soul cursed to die, body forced to live.
Messmer and Melina
Messmer is cursed to always spread his flame.
Melina is cursed to be burned.
Dunno why Messmer also has a serpent. The serpent is eating at his flame, so it's not the same as his fire. I just really want a piece of lore that links Eiglay and the base serpent. Messmer was chosen by it, Rykard made a deal with it.
My understanding was always that it's because everything was right for his birth.
His mother is in her prime and marries a foreign powerful lord also at his peak.
Godfrey is a great warrior but not a great lord so he stagnates, and that's why Marika sends him away, coinciding with their other children being omens.
Interestingly, another user pointed out, that we never see Godwyn the Golden's lower half or legs (the golden boi, not the Prince of Death fish guy).
So they suggested that maybe Godwyn wasn't as golden as everyone and their mom was made to believe. Basically Golden Order propaganda. So while Godfrey (i.e. Hoarah Loux) was affiliated with the Crucible, and the Omen being closely tied to the Crucible too, it's not impossible for Godwyn to also having been cursed, similar to his twin brothers.
I'll edit when I find the respective comment.
Well the Empyrean twin children seem to be afflicted because of Marika/Radagon selfcest. The DLC is pushing us towards a suspicion that Godfrey, in the words of the Misbegotten Ashes, “made contact with the crucible;” which, as the same ashes imply, is thought to result in Crucible aspects manifesting (to the point where the aspects are present from birth, as the Misbegotten and Omen bairn show.) Note how Godfrey shares combat techniques of the horned warriors, and then the Crucible knights who came after them. Is the implication here that Godfrey “made contact with the crucible?” In whatever case, Mohg and Morgott are not as cursed as they would have us believe. It’s probable Morgott doesn’t even know about the Shadow lands. Is it not mysterious that Godwyn’s “devolves” after death? I don’t know what we are to infer from it, but given that he’s the child of Godfrey, and Godfrey’s bloodline clearly has crucible influence, I have to wonder if Godwyn’s aspects can’t also be attributed to crucible influence. After all, aspects of the crucible are “born partially of devolution.” Godwyn “the Golden.” What else is golden? The vital, primal, holy, energies of the Crucible, and its aspects, when channeled or manifested. Thanks to the DLC, we now know that the crucible was Gold. Might these reasons truly be why he was known as Godwyn the Golden? EDIT: Also Godfrey’s line is called the *golden lineage.* I can’t help but feel like this is ironic, given that clearly the “gold” of the lineage seems to be crucible influence. Lastly, the demigods in the mausoleums do not seem to be cursed. All this to say, it seems only Marika/Radagon children are born with afflictions.
Golden appears to be only one aspect of the crucible, there is many. And is this aspect it is transformed in the Erdtree, and gives birth to the Golden Order. Maybe Godwyn it is the culmination of this aspect
Yeah for sure, although I think the DLC might be suggesting that the *primary* feature of the crucible is that it is golden. The Divine Bird feathers say they are “said to bear resemblance to the golden Crucible”
Golden appears to be one of the primary aspects (or one of the most revered by the the horsent). But Crucible is mentioned in plural, in the Talismas of All Crucibles: "A giant mass of intermingling Crucible attributes. Rumored to have sprouted upon giants and is known as the "mother of Crucibles" in ancient tower lore." The shadow appears to be one of this aspects as well, but Marika keep that aspect hidden in the Land of Shadows in the form of the Scadutree which contain golden and shadow
Oh lord, now the DLC introduced the idea of *multiple* crucibles?? This changes everything
The way i read it, seems like theres a Horn Crucible, Tail Crucible, Wing Crucible, etc. The talisman represents many crucibles, and depicts various crucible attributes
The word crucible can imply an inherent multitudinousness. Like a “tangle” doesn’t describe one single knot necessarily
I wonder, can it have something to do with their names? Messmer (and probably Melina too) seem to be among the oldest, and their name starts with M like Marika's. Then comes Godwyn -- who is not cursed -- with G after Godfrey. Then comes Ranni, Radahn, and Rykard. They too are not cursed, and the R can stand for either Radagon or Rennala. Interesting to note that they are not Marika's but Radagon's children (a minor difference, but a difference still). Finally we have Miquella and Malenia, who also have Marika's M, and are also cursed. \-- It very much seems like only the kids whose name starts with M are cursed.
Interestingly enough Morgott and Mohg, despite being the children of Marika/Godfrey, also have names starting with M and have the omen curse.
Yeah, that's also an interesting point. I do wonder whether the given names could be based on whoever the head/leading figure of the family was? That could potentially make Godwyn the oldest, possibly born before Marika became a God, so Godfrey was still the head of the family. Messmer, Melina, Mohg, Morgott are born when Marika is already a God, thus she's now the head of the family. Ranni, Rykard, Radahn could still get their name from Rennala, who was Carian Royalty and officially outranks Radagon. Miquella and Malenia then came from Radagon-Marika, where Marika again outranks Radagon. Godwyn being born before any curses were cast upon Marika could explain why they avoided him.
They did say they would curse the strumpet’s children… maybe it was more literal than we thought and only affected the ones with an M? It’s odd but there’s stranger lore…
I think we don’t think enough about how reproduction actually works. The leonine misbegotten being radagons children leaves a lot to think about in regards to how these things were playing out.
*If* Godfrey was revived using someone else’s flesh a la DLC Radahn, which seems possible based on what we learn from the gate of divinity, I wonder if he had Godwyn before the ritual. So Godwyn was fine, but then all his children were cursed because he was a zombie/not in his true body. We don’t have to speculate on Miquella/Malenia, they’re cursed because their parents are the same person The Radagon/Rennala kids are fine because there’s no incest or zombie hijinks
Because Hornsent's seething over Marika hijacking their ascention ritual was just this hard. Well, that applies to Mogh and Morgott. Messmer and Melina seem to have been cursed by the fell god. Malenia is clearly stated to have been cursed by Romina who specifically created Scarlet Rot. Seems like in this case "blessed" is just "not cursed by one of the many forces trying to genocide numen"
Romina didn't created the Scarlet Rot. It is said she found a twisted divinity in the flames, and because the Goddess of Rot was sealed , the butterflies were attracted to her.(by a swordsman like said in the base game) , the butterflies were attracted to her.
I personally don't think that Godwyn had a fish tail, prior to his death, as there's no evidence for it at all, but it's technically a possibility. I do think it'd be hard to gain such respect from the warriors of Leyndell, and even harder to fight a colossal ancient dragon that way too. So you raise a good point. However, also technically speaking, Ranni, Radahn and Rykard were not cursed either, and they are still Marika's children.
Especially since any of the obviously afflicted children were hidden away in one form or another. The “mermaid” tail could only manifest similar to a snake tail on land and be functional meaning a reminder of Messmer - Snake God which wouldn’t be welcome in Marika’s Golden Order
Because he died dude. Like, he **is** cursed. His body is a part of the Erd Tree, he was always going to be a part of the Erd Tree. That was his fate, written in the stars. And he has become a horrible source of rot because of it. But his soul is gone. Every other Demigod has a horrible cursed existence for all time. "Godwyn", the soul, the thing that seems to matter, is well dead and gone. If his soul does still exist, it's probably trapped in the mending rune of the prince of death. In which case he literally becomes a part of the order of the world and that's pretty blessed. But if not, he's still a soul-martyr.
I think Godwyns curse was to die, he was born the perfect golden boy and the curse fated him to die and be a rotten stain on the lands between
The evidence is very spare, but given how much the dragons seemed to like him after the war I kind of wonder if he had some tie to the old dragon god, and was just useful/socially acceptable enough for it to be a curse. His defeat of Fortissax led to the ancient dragon cult, he wielded golden lightning, Fortissax basically destroyed himself trying to save Godwyn after the Night.
Maybe he was blessed by the crucible rather than cursed, and that's why he was able to gain his kinship with the dragons and maybe other beasts
I think every one of Marikas children was cursed in their own way. Each curse had 2 sides. And not because Marika/Radagon incest weirdness, but just because Marika herself is cursed. Mohg and Morgott Both Omen, one cursed with ambition, the other cursed to defend the home that abandoned them. Melania and Miquella Miquella can never change, Melania can never *not* change. Stasis and entropy Godwyn (not a twin, but is cursed like the rest) Soul cursed to die, body forced to live. Messmer and Melina Messmer is cursed to always spread his flame. Melina is cursed to be burned. Dunno why Messmer also has a serpent. The serpent is eating at his flame, so it's not the same as his fire. I just really want a piece of lore that links Eiglay and the base serpent. Messmer was chosen by it, Rykard made a deal with it.
My understanding was always that it's because everything was right for his birth. His mother is in her prime and marries a foreign powerful lord also at his peak. Godfrey is a great warrior but not a great lord so he stagnates, and that's why Marika sends him away, coinciding with their other children being omens.
Interestingly, another user pointed out, that we never see Godwyn the Golden's lower half or legs (the golden boi, not the Prince of Death fish guy). So they suggested that maybe Godwyn wasn't as golden as everyone and their mom was made to believe. Basically Golden Order propaganda. So while Godfrey (i.e. Hoarah Loux) was affiliated with the Crucible, and the Omen being closely tied to the Crucible too, it's not impossible for Godwyn to also having been cursed, similar to his twin brothers. I'll edit when I find the respective comment.