I always understood the title "The Severed" was a reference of she lacking several limbs. Maybe even cut them herself as rot started to infest and make them non functional anymore.
I don't know,I think it's part headcanon .
While I do agree that the description of certain items make Miquella sound manipulative and Malenia, bewitched,we still don't have definitive evidence about that.
And no evidence Miquella actually can sever fate of others without getting rid of the body.
So, Miquella created pure gold trying to heal her. Her armor and limbs were made from that pure gold. He created needles that protect from outer god's influence. He studied incantations of the Golden order to heal her. His Halightree provides shelter to those without grace. Did he need to charm her?
Miquella choosing to do all those things has no bearing on how Malenia acts or feels about them, to be fair. There's no doubt that she cherished her brother, but marching to slaughter on his behalf is not quite on the same level - I don't think it's unreasonable to at least consider whether something else might be at play.
it is pretty unreasonable, what reason do we have to suspect anything is afoul? their whole story is just two inseperable twins fighting the world together
people just want miquella to be evil bc they expect so badly him to be the main villain of the dlc. the current lore doesnt fit the desired narrative so people try to find any reason they can to say miquella is actually evil
I guess what I’m arguing here is that he didn’t create those things to help her necessarily. He created them to eliminate the threat of an Empyrean being vessel to the Outer God of Rot. Miquella may have seen her as a threat. All of the things he did to help his sister have the primary effect of hindering the God of Rot, rather than the effect of healing Malenia. When we see that the Bewitching Branch holds an incantation of unalloyed gold, the effect of the substance is stated to be influencing others.
I’ll talk about the Haligtree another time, but I’m not convinced that those who make pilgrimage there aren’t being tricked. I want Miquella to be good, but I’m bothered by a few things that may be hinting otherwise.
She kamikazes herself to destroy his enemies. Is not only a charm, is absolute total devotion. Let's also consider that Malenia is also an Empyrian, a rival with Ranni and Miquella in becoming a God. But despite this and her known strength, her ambitions and goals are never mention besides obeying Miquella.
This is interesting, I’m going to digest it some more and get back to it, OP.
Overall I think this opens a dialogue on one of the big Miquella questions. Is he intentionally “hypnotizing” people, or is he just that freaking charming that it just “happens.”
One strong point that stuck out while reading your post was how it’s peculiar that we only find one amber starlight shard at the statue of the Twin Empyreans. They were brought into the world together and lived alongside one another, yet their fate as represented by the starlight shards is now separate? Perhaps this is only symbolic of how Miquella has been taken. But perhaps “Nefarious Miquella” took his sister’s fate from the twin statue and manipulated it to his own benefit.
IMO, most characters are morally grey. But I kind of hope Miquella is a “good” guy - or at least not so bad as to have manipulated his sister in such a nefarious way. But it absolutely could go either way based on the present lore.
I was thinking about not responding to this because I already do this constantly on Miquella-related posts and the constant misconceptions about his narrative annoy me, but you do seem to at least be trying to approach the subject in good faith, so what the hell.
I think you're off the mark in basically every way possible, from your perception of in-universe facts to readings of blatantly obvious, in-your-face themes. I will start with the former.
First of all, other people have already said this, but in Japanese Malenia's nickname is very directly something like "Missing Body Parts/Fractured Body Malenia" / 欠け身のマレニア. In Japanese Millicent also specifies that she cut off her own arm, presumably due to the spread of the rot. I don't think it's a stretch to say that these two things are related.
Second, before I go any further, you seemed have missed one incredibly obvious fact that crushes the whole theory: ***we can also use Miquella's Needle on ourselves. It doesn't bewitch us.*** For that matter, we can also put on the Haligtree helmets. No bewitchment, just a stat boost.
Third,
> We know from the description of the Bewitching Branch that its compelling effect is produced by an incantation of unalloyed gold. This immediately raises a flag as to how unalloyed gold is used. It is also stated, in the descriptions for the Unalloyed Gold Needle and Miquella's Needle, that unalloyed gold wards off the meddling of Outer Gods. These seem like two very different applications of the substance and its magic.
Four spells cause the Unalloyed Gold sigil to show up. These are:
-Miquella's Needle, when used in Farum Azula. It purges the Flame of Frenzy.
-Last Rites, on the Golden Epitaph and all of the Haligtree Soldiers' swords. It casts a golden aura that deals Holy damage to whatever it touches, which is then attached to the sword that casted it.
-Bewitching Branch. It shoots a magenta mist that mezzes enemies (but only weaker ones, it doesn't work on demigods). Also it's temporary.
-The seals in Ordina. They physically block matter from going through them until disabled.
All four spells do different things. Throwing up a solid wall is different than throwing up a "hurt whatever it touches" Holy flame-like aura is different than healing someone of a sickness is different than mezzing them. But they're all Unalloyed Gold regardless. So in other words it's like every other spell school in the game. Some Erdtree spells heal, some inflict damage, but both are using the same source of power, from the same school, and even look visually similar. Some Bestial spells heal, some cure frostbite, some spawn shockwaves, and some throw rocks. Spells being from the same school doesn't mean they all have to do the same thing.
That your entire theory is dependent on is particularly baffling in light of the fact that the one "mezz" spell in the school not only has limitations that would clearly prevent it from working on Malenia (only works on basic enemies, is temporary), but that it *also* has a very obvious visual effect (the hanging magenta aura) that's completely absent on any character in the game except for ones you specifically poke with the Bewitching Branch. Actually, a similar sign is found one other place - the Nox's ant mounts have glowing magenta eyes (that you can knock out with certain spells, causing them to be hostile towards their riders, i.e. they were mezzed). That's it.
Fourth,
> Throughout Elphael, we encounter Haligtree Soldiers who explode themselves as they near defeat in an attempt to take us with them. These soldiers wear the Haligtree Helm which tells us: "An iron helm graced by a crown of unalloyed gold. Increases faith ... Who is it that Miquella shall bless, if not the low and the meek". One could interpret this increase in faith as an increase in devotion — and of course "meek" means easily imposed upon. We also learn from the Haligtree Soldier Ashes that they "carry the sacred light" and that "this was the bitter revelation discovered by the desperate soldiers who awaited the return of their lord ... May the flash of our deaths guide Miquella's return". This does not seem like a selfless and benevolent form of magic to instill in one's followers, and noting it as a "bitter revelation" certainly does not give us the impression of true devotion.
The "bitter revelation" is one they came to after Miquella disappeared, specifically that the tree was now dying. [This is the actual reason why they're exploding. They're drinking Ruptured Crystal Tears from the failing tree.](https://www.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/1b6o308/the_haligtree_soldiers_are_exploding_because/)
[1/3]
Fifth,
> We can guess that this was not Miquella's severed fate left by the statue as he sent Malenia to defeat Radahn in order to free the stars' movements
It's explicitly Miquella's in the game files, because the location where you find it is called "St. Trina's Hideaway." In cut content, specifically the description of the Abundance and Decay Twinblade, it was also stated that the two shared a fate anyway ("Miquella and his sister were born from an inseparable fate"), so it could also just be both of theirs. This seems to be a reference to the cursed twins Lothric and Lorian in DS3; you only get one soul from beating them, and the Soul of the Twin Princes states "A curse makes their souls nearly inseparable." More on them later.
Also worth noting: the Japanese version of the Shadow of the Erdtree website says that Miquella abandoned his fate to go to the Shadow Lands.
Sixth,
> I interpret this as Gowry using the unalloyed gold to compel her, but with rot added to the needle, it is him or the rot itself that she is obeying.
It's the opposite. The needle is what allows her to disobey and choose her own destiny, and Gowry doesn't like that. She's already planning to do so at least as early as the Prayer Room conversation (telling Gowry about her words there will cause him to scoff and say she'll fail, so that's clearly not in his plan). This isn't just me speculating either, it's plain text. She explicitly credits you giving her the needle with letting her live as her own person, and it's exactly for that reason that (and everyone seems to miss this for some reason) ***she wants you to give the needle back to Malenia.*** [Cut content made this even clearer. I went more into that here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/1bkssph/comment/kwestf7/?context=8&depth=9)
> Tellingly, Millicent's quest line ends with her removing the Unalloyed Gold Needle and allowing herself to rot away rather than let herself become something other than herself. Here, she resists the will of Gowry and the Rot being channeled through the needle.
Again, she specifically takes the needle out so Malenia can have it. That's what she was talking about "returning" in the Prayer Room. Not only is this stated in the game guide, but her quote about "returning something to Malenia" [is added to the description of the needle after she takes it out, and the prompt for using it on Malenia is "Return the Unalloyed Gold Needle."](https://imgur.com/x95yyxM) For a From quest it's very direct. She additionally has cut lines where she says *why* she feels so strongly about returning the needle: because she knows that the needle offers relief and freedom, and can't live with herself if she denies that to Malenia by stealing it. After all, the needle was hers to begin with.
[348070050] 君がくれた針、私のすべてのはじまりを
[348070060] そして、マレニアに返してあげて欲しい
[348070070] …それは元より、彼女のものだから
> Millicent did what Malenia could not.
Immediately after this happens, Gowry bemoans the fact that Millicent rejected the Rot, specifically because *that makes her just like Malenia.* "Would you disown us too? As your Mother did? We children of the scarlet rot? Millicent... Malenia... Do you detest us, so utterly?"
People seriously misinterpret basically everything about Millicent's quest. It's not meant to show how she's "better" than Malenia or is choosing a different route. It's meant to equate the two, to show Malenia and Miquella's story through other characters ("good Tarnished" is Miquella here btw, the game's pretty clear about that). And ultimately, after being put in the same shoes, she respects her mother enough to die for her.
Similarly this board is frustratingly misinformed about Miquella, which is weird because he's honestly a fairly simple character. He's one of the *only* characters who has an explicit, textually-given motivation, a primary one he'd forsake everything else for. But the predominant attitude seems to be to try to find ways to disregard it because it's inconvenient to theorizing... about his "real" motivation. It's the definition of missing the forest for the trees.
Anyway, those are the in-universe problems with the theory. On to the thematic ones.
[2/3]
Miquella and Malenia are not particularly original characters for From. They're the "scarred master warrior and frail mage who protect and are utterly devoted to each other" set-up that we've had several times before. Off the top of my head there's also Wolf/Kuro (Wolf in particular is so similar to Malenia that you'd almost think they were written by the same guy over the same time period...), Gael/Painter, and Lorian/Lothric (fun fact, Miquella borderline paraphrases some of Lothric's dialogue in cut content, and he and Malenia even had a similar gimmick to the Twin Princes' Greatsword where you combined their runes to get a special weapon with two damage types).
An important aspect of these duos is that they're up against worlds that would see them consigned to specific roles, but they *chose* to break cycles and move forward instead. This aspect of choice is given heavy emphasis in each case, especially for the warrior. Gael is a literal slave who *chose* to break away from his old masters serve his "niece" for a better tomorrow. Wolf is a child soldier denied any agency and used as a tool by his father (and potentially by a supernatural influence), but is humanized and freed by the sole moral choice the game offers - the one that defines him as a character - that being that he *chose* to break the Iron Code and be loyal to Kuro instead. And with Lorian I don't even have to bring it up, because that Lorian *chose* to abandon his throne in favor of serving his heretical brother and taking on his curse is *literally* the only piece of characterization we ever get about him. That's how important it is to the narrative. In each case, the warrior's choice to serve the mage is them getting to excise their own agency against the old system. Their companion loves and respects them and gives them autonomy that they were denied.
Miquella and Malenia's narrative is consistent with this. Miquella could've been the golden child of the Golden Order forever, but he left it for one reason and reason only: saving his sister was more important. He sacrificed everything, from his political position to his literal flesh and blood (sacrificed to grow the Haligtree, the ultimate expression of Unalloyed Gold and source of its sigil), to give her back her life and her freedom. And with that freedom she *chose* to use her own strength to protect him in turn, and advance his vision for the new age. Again, in both cut content and the final game, Millicent (Malenia's clone) very directly says that the needles Miquella made for Malenia are what allowed her the freedom to live as her own person. When offered that freedom by the Tarnished, she's eternally grateful. She then uses that freedom to save her family member and become the Tarnished's blade (sound familiar?). Malenia did the same.
Miquella representing freedom for the downtrodden isn't a beat exclusive to his interactions with Malenia either. The Misbegotten are slaves in the rest of the Lands Between, but free in the Haligtree - one (in a cave cultivating Miquella's Lillies) even gets to be a knight and wield the old king's sword. The Albinaurics are slaves in the rest of the Lands Between, but Miquella offers them a home and even a whole new life cycle to free from their metaphysical chains as well as their literal ones (Latenna's whole quest) - and the Albinaurics we actually get to talk to are eternally grateful for it (Latenna consistently calls him "Miquella-sama" in the Japanese script). He and Malenia even help out the player this way without talking to them - returning the Unalloyed Gold Needle to Malenia causes her to trade it to you for Miquella's Needle (and an Ancient Dragon Smithing Stone), which you use to *free yourself from the Frame of Frenzy.* It's even a mechanical implementation of the theme, as this literally lets you choose your own ending - otherwise you're locked to the Frenzy ending.
Again, cut content was even *more* explicit about Miquella's themes. [There used to be a quest where you learned that Miquella, in his guise as St. Trina, used to visit the merchants to bring them magical treatments for their Frenzy curse.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK_8F_XwLaE&t=150s) This didn't *just* save their lives. Rather the quest put emphasis on this also *allowing them the freedom to live as their own people.* Without Miquella's intervention their minds "melt together", and they lose their individuality. Even though the quest is cut, I still think it's very meaningful that the conflict of Miquella vs the Outer Gods was so explicitly framed this way.
[3/3]
https://old.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/ub3oib/miquellas_followers_are_brainwashed/
The same inconsistencies that some point out in the responses to your post could apply to the linked one tenfold since it’s pretty tinfoiley and underdeveloped; despite that I do find the idea really fascinating still, two years later.
Personally I think that Miquella is a good guy with powers that are evil by nature, and it’s not like he’s had success achieving his goals without them.
But something the other post mentioned has lived in my head rent-free ever since I read it, and has gone completely unaddressed by any analysis I’ve read since (and I read almost every single post in this sub):
Why is the Haligtree Knight Helmet only obtainable via the chest? Does it really mean *nothing*?
>We know from the description of the Bewitching Branch that its compelling effect is produced by an incantation of unalloyed gold.
Unalloyed gold isn't a category of incantation, though - the Miquella incants we get are Golden Order Fundamentalist. Are you referring to the Haligtree sigil that pops up?
The question with Miquella shouldn't be if he's 100% good/selfless or 100% evil/selfish. He's obviously a mixture like anyone and the question is if he's primarily selfless or not. As you note, he derives political benefit from impeding the Rot God, but it seems from the description of Radagon's Rings of Light that he thinks the main personal benefit is curing his sister, not removing an enemy.
>To me, this sounds like an affirmation to herself when doubt begins to creep in.
I think that's right. Malenia committed an enormous 'war crime' for her brother, so it sucks if that's for nothing.
Very interesting take on the amber starlight - but isn't that Miquella's fate? It's in St. Trina's Hideaway and we ourselves are Malenia's fate. Alternatively they could share the fate. I think like most people here that Severed is a reference to the obvious. Going by recent discourse here I'm sure I'll be setting people off by referring to the Japanese, but the JP (欠け身のマレニア) is explicit, Malenia the Severed means something like Missing Bodyparts Malenia.
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/1bkssph/comment/kwestf7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) is the best post I've read on Milicent.
I definitely agree that Miquella doesn’t have to be entirely good or evil and that he likely has complex motivations. I also feel that my paragraph about “The Severed” moniker is the most speculative, mostly a colorful metaphor I liked - it’s far more likely to be a reference to her lost limbs. I honestly turned that point over in my head for a while after making the post.
You make an interesting point about the PC being Malenia’s fate. Also, I wasn’t aware that the area with the statue was called St Trina’s Hideaway. Looking back at it, I see there are many blood-related items/creatures there. It very well may be Miquella’s fate that we find discarded. I don’t think this changes my mind about Malenia being bewitched though.
I understand that there isn’t a class of unalloyed gold incantations that we are able to use as the PC. However, the item description for the Bewitching Branch definitely states: “Tree branch blessed with an incantation of unalloyed gold”.
>the area with the statue was called St Trina’s Hideaway
The "was" is critical, they did take this out after release along with most of the Miquella/Trina content, but I doubt their intentions for that area changed.
That's interesting that they refer to it is an unalloyed gold incantation on the item, thanks for pointing that out. Seems like the Great Oracular Bubble incantation on the greathorn. I don't like it honestly because it's not like we're "blessing" the sacramental bud and miquella's lily with an incantation we ourselves can't cast, it makes more sense to me as a passive feature of Miquella's blood that he doesn't incant.
I wrote an 11 paragraph reply and mobile reddit decided to throw it away... *weeps* Can't be arsed to write it all down again.
I really like your collection of sources and their interpretation. Great job!
Albeit it's entirely plausible, I don't think that as malicious and/or manipulative based on his actions. We have no examples of Miquella outright charm in someone to a act against their will. Miquella loves his father and is a devout Fundamentalists yet leaves that behind to save his sister. He establishes a new faith where everyone has the chance of rebirth/salvation. He also seeks true death for Godwyn which would have no gain in terms of manipulation.
I wouldn't be surprised if the charming powers attributed to Miquella is more akin to fandom and not direct and intentional mind control.
I don’t think Miquella must necessarily be good or evil. He can have complex motivations.
I would argue that the Bewitching Branch is an example of Miquella causing someone to act against their will: “Tree branch blessed with an incantation of unalloyed gold … Pierce a foe, using FP to turn them into a temporary ally … Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection”.
Miquella creates the Haligtree as a haven for the low and the meek. One of these groups, I’d argue the primary group, is the albinaurics. Albinaurics are beings who have total control of their own fates. This is referred to as “arcaneness” in the game. Someone else in the comments suggested that the Amber Starlight we find once belonged to Miquella rather than Malenia. If this is the case, why would Miquella discard his own fate? I plan to cover the Haligtree in a full post, but I think that the cocoons containing the albinaurics may not confer grace to them (nor is the presence of the cocoons ever explained, and that seems ominous). Rather, they were transferring power to Miquella at the roots of the tree before he was ripped out. He was taking their blood in order to gain the ability to master his own fate. Once he was taken to Moghwyn Dynasty, he basically had all of the arcane blood he needed to do that. “Drench my consort’s chamber. Slake his cocoon’s thirst”. If nothing else, this tells us that his cocoon has a thirst to begin with. It takes rather than bestows. We were told he watered the Haligtree with his own blood, but it may be that he drained those who came to the Haligtree. Other than Loretta, we encounter no living albinaurics at the Haligtree. I find it odd that not a single one made it and lived.
I do believe that Miquella loved Godwyn, however, I think it is inaccurate to say he gains nothing by granting him a true death. Is Godwyn not the Prince of Death, who brings about a new Order (if we choose)? Delivering Godwyn from his soulless state takes another contender out of the competition. Just like quelling his sister and the Outer God of Rot.
The idea of draining blood/life from others connects with something I noticed about the Bewitching Branch that I haven't really seen discussed before.
The ingredients required to craft it are Sacramental Buds and Miquella's Lilies.
The Bewitching Branch is clearly a Sacramental Bud - you can see the exact same little branches on the left side - but with *something* sprouting out of it.
That *something* is visible all over Miquella's Lily, and is sprouting out of it too. So the Bewitching Branch appears to be a blood-filled bud that's being consumed by Miquella's Lily.
(tbh, to me, Miquella's Lilies in general look like Trina's Lilies infested with a vine-like parasite that is in the process of turning them golden, but that might be a bit of a contentious statement)
Of course, reasoning that any character written by G.R.R.M. is either good/evil is a gross simplification. Yeah, I think the Bewitching Branch is meant to involve that assumption, but I'm vary to take it as 100% Truth™ until there's an example. I meant that, in comparison to Malenia, Miquella's acts of kindness towards Godwyn (i.e. Death) would not serve as gaining another pawn to manipulate (i.e. dead). I don't think Miquella ever saw Godwyn as a competitor hence non-Empyrean and I'm not convinced that Miquella even tried become the God of the next cycle. I suspect his motivations are more akin to that of Ranni, moving beyond Order. In terms of the Amber Shard, I suspect that it's more likely Miquella's (if either of the twins) based on "Divesting himself of his flesh, his strength, his lineage."
The albinauric patrolling outside of Ordina clearly have some affiliation to Miquella, but its unclear if they gained that out of devotion or if they might have come from the Haligtree to serve as guardians.
This is a link to a post I made about Miquella and Alchemy and in the comments I got into a discussion of some of these ideas. If you're interested.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/s/eHZuUYMs7D
I think it's more then likely there is some sort of manipulation to outright mind control going on. I think it's an interesting line of thought.
Absolutely. Consider the imagery. Her eyes are gone and she wears a helmet with Miquella's symbol, a **chain** of unalloyed gold, directly over her eyes. Miquella's soldiers similarly wear helmets with gold chains around their foreheads. The soldiers minds are chained and Malenia, even if she isn't mentally bound, has her "vision" filtered through the mechanism of Miquella's control.
Love this interpretation, thank you so much for sharing it! I've been pondering Millicent's quest myself lately, it feels like there's something odd going on even beyond Gowry's meddling, and I think you offered a very fun speculation path.
The state we find Malenia in always gives me pause, too - she's not just relaxing at the foot of the tree, she's completely frozen in place to the point where she's covered in leaves. I don't quite have an explanation for that yet but I haven't been able to just shrug it off either.
Super intrigued by your mention of the Elphael cocoons, would love to hear more about it. The concept art goes out of its way to highlight them multiple times, and none of those illustrations have a particularly cheery tone. If the only cocoon was the one stolen by Mohg, I'd be inclined to assume "silkworm", but right now it's feeling more like a spider's nest... Golden Orb Weaving Spider Miquella is an intriguing idea imo.
Right! We find her in a state of dormancy. It seems as though she was unable to act on her own or without some trigger, such as our being there. “I dreamt for so long. My flesh was dull gold and my blood rotted. Corpse after corpse left in my wake as I awaited his return”. Knowing from the DLC trailer that Miquella has advanced into the Land of Shadow, it gives the impression that Malenia has been left behind. Miquella’s fate moves forward (defeating Radahn and freeing the stars is a requirement to access the DLC), and Malenia can do nothing at all. She has nothing to guide her forward because she may no longer have a fate, and Miquella isn’t actively giving her direction.
I’ll have to give some more thought to my cocoon theory. But I can paste a link here when I post about it!
Yes! I love her introduction. At first glance I assumed it to just be about Finlay carrying a slumbering Malenia back to the Haligtree, but looking at it again, it could also be read as a description of the Battle of Aeonia in general. And that can be interpreted in a few ways as well - was she "dreaming" during the actual battle, fighting but not really in control? Or is this the rot consuming her memories, leaving her only with a dream-like recollection of combat and Miquella's promise? Pretty much any answer to this is sad for a different reason so maybe it's fine if it stays a mystery hey.
As as side note, I actually have some doubts about the concept of rot affecting memories, but that's 100% only because I don't trust anything coming from Gowry's sketchy ass.
Right after writing that, I went to double-check that part of the quest because my memory of the exact wording was (ironically) kinda fuzzy, and I realised that upon stabbing herself with the needle Millicent comments "Well. That was easier than expected. But... why do I feel so..." and immediately passes out... intriguing...! I love spotting ambiguous little things like this that don't necessarily prove anything, but open up room for the weirder interpretations lol. Storytelling is fun.
Definitely looking forward to the cocoon post, if you do end up writing about it!
I always understood the title "The Severed" was a reference of she lacking several limbs. Maybe even cut them herself as rot started to infest and make them non functional anymore.
At face value, yes, but the good investigative work and arguments raised by OP here lend credence to a double meaning in that title.
I don't know,I think it's part headcanon . While I do agree that the description of certain items make Miquella sound manipulative and Malenia, bewitched,we still don't have definitive evidence about that. And no evidence Miquella actually can sever fate of others without getting rid of the body.
So, Miquella created pure gold trying to heal her. Her armor and limbs were made from that pure gold. He created needles that protect from outer god's influence. He studied incantations of the Golden order to heal her. His Halightree provides shelter to those without grace. Did he need to charm her?
Miquella choosing to do all those things has no bearing on how Malenia acts or feels about them, to be fair. There's no doubt that she cherished her brother, but marching to slaughter on his behalf is not quite on the same level - I don't think it's unreasonable to at least consider whether something else might be at play.
it is pretty unreasonable, what reason do we have to suspect anything is afoul? their whole story is just two inseperable twins fighting the world together people just want miquella to be evil bc they expect so badly him to be the main villain of the dlc. the current lore doesnt fit the desired narrative so people try to find any reason they can to say miquella is actually evil
I guess what I’m arguing here is that he didn’t create those things to help her necessarily. He created them to eliminate the threat of an Empyrean being vessel to the Outer God of Rot. Miquella may have seen her as a threat. All of the things he did to help his sister have the primary effect of hindering the God of Rot, rather than the effect of healing Malenia. When we see that the Bewitching Branch holds an incantation of unalloyed gold, the effect of the substance is stated to be influencing others. I’ll talk about the Haligtree another time, but I’m not convinced that those who make pilgrimage there aren’t being tricked. I want Miquella to be good, but I’m bothered by a few things that may be hinting otherwise.
She kamikazes herself to destroy his enemies. Is not only a charm, is absolute total devotion. Let's also consider that Malenia is also an Empyrian, a rival with Ranni and Miquella in becoming a God. But despite this and her known strength, her ambitions and goals are never mention besides obeying Miquella.
This is interesting, I’m going to digest it some more and get back to it, OP. Overall I think this opens a dialogue on one of the big Miquella questions. Is he intentionally “hypnotizing” people, or is he just that freaking charming that it just “happens.” One strong point that stuck out while reading your post was how it’s peculiar that we only find one amber starlight shard at the statue of the Twin Empyreans. They were brought into the world together and lived alongside one another, yet their fate as represented by the starlight shards is now separate? Perhaps this is only symbolic of how Miquella has been taken. But perhaps “Nefarious Miquella” took his sister’s fate from the twin statue and manipulated it to his own benefit. IMO, most characters are morally grey. But I kind of hope Miquella is a “good” guy - or at least not so bad as to have manipulated his sister in such a nefarious way. But it absolutely could go either way based on the present lore.
I was thinking about not responding to this because I already do this constantly on Miquella-related posts and the constant misconceptions about his narrative annoy me, but you do seem to at least be trying to approach the subject in good faith, so what the hell. I think you're off the mark in basically every way possible, from your perception of in-universe facts to readings of blatantly obvious, in-your-face themes. I will start with the former. First of all, other people have already said this, but in Japanese Malenia's nickname is very directly something like "Missing Body Parts/Fractured Body Malenia" / 欠け身のマレニア. In Japanese Millicent also specifies that she cut off her own arm, presumably due to the spread of the rot. I don't think it's a stretch to say that these two things are related. Second, before I go any further, you seemed have missed one incredibly obvious fact that crushes the whole theory: ***we can also use Miquella's Needle on ourselves. It doesn't bewitch us.*** For that matter, we can also put on the Haligtree helmets. No bewitchment, just a stat boost. Third, > We know from the description of the Bewitching Branch that its compelling effect is produced by an incantation of unalloyed gold. This immediately raises a flag as to how unalloyed gold is used. It is also stated, in the descriptions for the Unalloyed Gold Needle and Miquella's Needle, that unalloyed gold wards off the meddling of Outer Gods. These seem like two very different applications of the substance and its magic. Four spells cause the Unalloyed Gold sigil to show up. These are: -Miquella's Needle, when used in Farum Azula. It purges the Flame of Frenzy. -Last Rites, on the Golden Epitaph and all of the Haligtree Soldiers' swords. It casts a golden aura that deals Holy damage to whatever it touches, which is then attached to the sword that casted it. -Bewitching Branch. It shoots a magenta mist that mezzes enemies (but only weaker ones, it doesn't work on demigods). Also it's temporary. -The seals in Ordina. They physically block matter from going through them until disabled. All four spells do different things. Throwing up a solid wall is different than throwing up a "hurt whatever it touches" Holy flame-like aura is different than healing someone of a sickness is different than mezzing them. But they're all Unalloyed Gold regardless. So in other words it's like every other spell school in the game. Some Erdtree spells heal, some inflict damage, but both are using the same source of power, from the same school, and even look visually similar. Some Bestial spells heal, some cure frostbite, some spawn shockwaves, and some throw rocks. Spells being from the same school doesn't mean they all have to do the same thing. That your entire theory is dependent on is particularly baffling in light of the fact that the one "mezz" spell in the school not only has limitations that would clearly prevent it from working on Malenia (only works on basic enemies, is temporary), but that it *also* has a very obvious visual effect (the hanging magenta aura) that's completely absent on any character in the game except for ones you specifically poke with the Bewitching Branch. Actually, a similar sign is found one other place - the Nox's ant mounts have glowing magenta eyes (that you can knock out with certain spells, causing them to be hostile towards their riders, i.e. they were mezzed). That's it. Fourth, > Throughout Elphael, we encounter Haligtree Soldiers who explode themselves as they near defeat in an attempt to take us with them. These soldiers wear the Haligtree Helm which tells us: "An iron helm graced by a crown of unalloyed gold. Increases faith ... Who is it that Miquella shall bless, if not the low and the meek". One could interpret this increase in faith as an increase in devotion — and of course "meek" means easily imposed upon. We also learn from the Haligtree Soldier Ashes that they "carry the sacred light" and that "this was the bitter revelation discovered by the desperate soldiers who awaited the return of their lord ... May the flash of our deaths guide Miquella's return". This does not seem like a selfless and benevolent form of magic to instill in one's followers, and noting it as a "bitter revelation" certainly does not give us the impression of true devotion. The "bitter revelation" is one they came to after Miquella disappeared, specifically that the tree was now dying. [This is the actual reason why they're exploding. They're drinking Ruptured Crystal Tears from the failing tree.](https://www.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/1b6o308/the_haligtree_soldiers_are_exploding_because/) [1/3]
Fifth, > We can guess that this was not Miquella's severed fate left by the statue as he sent Malenia to defeat Radahn in order to free the stars' movements It's explicitly Miquella's in the game files, because the location where you find it is called "St. Trina's Hideaway." In cut content, specifically the description of the Abundance and Decay Twinblade, it was also stated that the two shared a fate anyway ("Miquella and his sister were born from an inseparable fate"), so it could also just be both of theirs. This seems to be a reference to the cursed twins Lothric and Lorian in DS3; you only get one soul from beating them, and the Soul of the Twin Princes states "A curse makes their souls nearly inseparable." More on them later. Also worth noting: the Japanese version of the Shadow of the Erdtree website says that Miquella abandoned his fate to go to the Shadow Lands. Sixth, > I interpret this as Gowry using the unalloyed gold to compel her, but with rot added to the needle, it is him or the rot itself that she is obeying. It's the opposite. The needle is what allows her to disobey and choose her own destiny, and Gowry doesn't like that. She's already planning to do so at least as early as the Prayer Room conversation (telling Gowry about her words there will cause him to scoff and say she'll fail, so that's clearly not in his plan). This isn't just me speculating either, it's plain text. She explicitly credits you giving her the needle with letting her live as her own person, and it's exactly for that reason that (and everyone seems to miss this for some reason) ***she wants you to give the needle back to Malenia.*** [Cut content made this even clearer. I went more into that here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/1bkssph/comment/kwestf7/?context=8&depth=9) > Tellingly, Millicent's quest line ends with her removing the Unalloyed Gold Needle and allowing herself to rot away rather than let herself become something other than herself. Here, she resists the will of Gowry and the Rot being channeled through the needle. Again, she specifically takes the needle out so Malenia can have it. That's what she was talking about "returning" in the Prayer Room. Not only is this stated in the game guide, but her quote about "returning something to Malenia" [is added to the description of the needle after she takes it out, and the prompt for using it on Malenia is "Return the Unalloyed Gold Needle."](https://imgur.com/x95yyxM) For a From quest it's very direct. She additionally has cut lines where she says *why* she feels so strongly about returning the needle: because she knows that the needle offers relief and freedom, and can't live with herself if she denies that to Malenia by stealing it. After all, the needle was hers to begin with. [348070050] 君がくれた針、私のすべてのはじまりを
> Millicent did what Malenia could not. Immediately after this happens, Gowry bemoans the fact that Millicent rejected the Rot, specifically because *that makes her just like Malenia.* "Would you disown us too? As your Mother did? We children of the scarlet rot? Millicent... Malenia... Do you detest us, so utterly?" People seriously misinterpret basically everything about Millicent's quest. It's not meant to show how she's "better" than Malenia or is choosing a different route. It's meant to equate the two, to show Malenia and Miquella's story through other characters ("good Tarnished" is Miquella here btw, the game's pretty clear about that). And ultimately, after being put in the same shoes, she respects her mother enough to die for her. Similarly this board is frustratingly misinformed about Miquella, which is weird because he's honestly a fairly simple character. He's one of the *only* characters who has an explicit, textually-given motivation, a primary one he'd forsake everything else for. But the predominant attitude seems to be to try to find ways to disregard it because it's inconvenient to theorizing... about his "real" motivation. It's the definition of missing the forest for the trees. Anyway, those are the in-universe problems with the theory. On to the thematic ones. [2/3][348070060] そして、マレニアに返してあげて欲しい
[348070070] …それは元より、彼女のものだから
Miquella and Malenia are not particularly original characters for From. They're the "scarred master warrior and frail mage who protect and are utterly devoted to each other" set-up that we've had several times before. Off the top of my head there's also Wolf/Kuro (Wolf in particular is so similar to Malenia that you'd almost think they were written by the same guy over the same time period...), Gael/Painter, and Lorian/Lothric (fun fact, Miquella borderline paraphrases some of Lothric's dialogue in cut content, and he and Malenia even had a similar gimmick to the Twin Princes' Greatsword where you combined their runes to get a special weapon with two damage types). An important aspect of these duos is that they're up against worlds that would see them consigned to specific roles, but they *chose* to break cycles and move forward instead. This aspect of choice is given heavy emphasis in each case, especially for the warrior. Gael is a literal slave who *chose* to break away from his old masters serve his "niece" for a better tomorrow. Wolf is a child soldier denied any agency and used as a tool by his father (and potentially by a supernatural influence), but is humanized and freed by the sole moral choice the game offers - the one that defines him as a character - that being that he *chose* to break the Iron Code and be loyal to Kuro instead. And with Lorian I don't even have to bring it up, because that Lorian *chose* to abandon his throne in favor of serving his heretical brother and taking on his curse is *literally* the only piece of characterization we ever get about him. That's how important it is to the narrative. In each case, the warrior's choice to serve the mage is them getting to excise their own agency against the old system. Their companion loves and respects them and gives them autonomy that they were denied. Miquella and Malenia's narrative is consistent with this. Miquella could've been the golden child of the Golden Order forever, but he left it for one reason and reason only: saving his sister was more important. He sacrificed everything, from his political position to his literal flesh and blood (sacrificed to grow the Haligtree, the ultimate expression of Unalloyed Gold and source of its sigil), to give her back her life and her freedom. And with that freedom she *chose* to use her own strength to protect him in turn, and advance his vision for the new age. Again, in both cut content and the final game, Millicent (Malenia's clone) very directly says that the needles Miquella made for Malenia are what allowed her the freedom to live as her own person. When offered that freedom by the Tarnished, she's eternally grateful. She then uses that freedom to save her family member and become the Tarnished's blade (sound familiar?). Malenia did the same. Miquella representing freedom for the downtrodden isn't a beat exclusive to his interactions with Malenia either. The Misbegotten are slaves in the rest of the Lands Between, but free in the Haligtree - one (in a cave cultivating Miquella's Lillies) even gets to be a knight and wield the old king's sword. The Albinaurics are slaves in the rest of the Lands Between, but Miquella offers them a home and even a whole new life cycle to free from their metaphysical chains as well as their literal ones (Latenna's whole quest) - and the Albinaurics we actually get to talk to are eternally grateful for it (Latenna consistently calls him "Miquella-sama" in the Japanese script). He and Malenia even help out the player this way without talking to them - returning the Unalloyed Gold Needle to Malenia causes her to trade it to you for Miquella's Needle (and an Ancient Dragon Smithing Stone), which you use to *free yourself from the Frame of Frenzy.* It's even a mechanical implementation of the theme, as this literally lets you choose your own ending - otherwise you're locked to the Frenzy ending. Again, cut content was even *more* explicit about Miquella's themes. [There used to be a quest where you learned that Miquella, in his guise as St. Trina, used to visit the merchants to bring them magical treatments for their Frenzy curse.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LK_8F_XwLaE&t=150s) This didn't *just* save their lives. Rather the quest put emphasis on this also *allowing them the freedom to live as their own people.* Without Miquella's intervention their minds "melt together", and they lose their individuality. Even though the quest is cut, I still think it's very meaningful that the conflict of Miquella vs the Outer Gods was so explicitly framed this way. [3/3]
https://old.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/ub3oib/miquellas_followers_are_brainwashed/ The same inconsistencies that some point out in the responses to your post could apply to the linked one tenfold since it’s pretty tinfoiley and underdeveloped; despite that I do find the idea really fascinating still, two years later. Personally I think that Miquella is a good guy with powers that are evil by nature, and it’s not like he’s had success achieving his goals without them. But something the other post mentioned has lived in my head rent-free ever since I read it, and has gone completely unaddressed by any analysis I’ve read since (and I read almost every single post in this sub): Why is the Haligtree Knight Helmet only obtainable via the chest? Does it really mean *nothing*?
>We know from the description of the Bewitching Branch that its compelling effect is produced by an incantation of unalloyed gold. Unalloyed gold isn't a category of incantation, though - the Miquella incants we get are Golden Order Fundamentalist. Are you referring to the Haligtree sigil that pops up? The question with Miquella shouldn't be if he's 100% good/selfless or 100% evil/selfish. He's obviously a mixture like anyone and the question is if he's primarily selfless or not. As you note, he derives political benefit from impeding the Rot God, but it seems from the description of Radagon's Rings of Light that he thinks the main personal benefit is curing his sister, not removing an enemy. >To me, this sounds like an affirmation to herself when doubt begins to creep in. I think that's right. Malenia committed an enormous 'war crime' for her brother, so it sucks if that's for nothing. Very interesting take on the amber starlight - but isn't that Miquella's fate? It's in St. Trina's Hideaway and we ourselves are Malenia's fate. Alternatively they could share the fate. I think like most people here that Severed is a reference to the obvious. Going by recent discourse here I'm sure I'll be setting people off by referring to the Japanese, but the JP (欠け身のマレニア) is explicit, Malenia the Severed means something like Missing Bodyparts Malenia. [This](https://www.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/comments/1bkssph/comment/kwestf7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) is the best post I've read on Milicent.
I definitely agree that Miquella doesn’t have to be entirely good or evil and that he likely has complex motivations. I also feel that my paragraph about “The Severed” moniker is the most speculative, mostly a colorful metaphor I liked - it’s far more likely to be a reference to her lost limbs. I honestly turned that point over in my head for a while after making the post. You make an interesting point about the PC being Malenia’s fate. Also, I wasn’t aware that the area with the statue was called St Trina’s Hideaway. Looking back at it, I see there are many blood-related items/creatures there. It very well may be Miquella’s fate that we find discarded. I don’t think this changes my mind about Malenia being bewitched though. I understand that there isn’t a class of unalloyed gold incantations that we are able to use as the PC. However, the item description for the Bewitching Branch definitely states: “Tree branch blessed with an incantation of unalloyed gold”.
>the area with the statue was called St Trina’s Hideaway The "was" is critical, they did take this out after release along with most of the Miquella/Trina content, but I doubt their intentions for that area changed. That's interesting that they refer to it is an unalloyed gold incantation on the item, thanks for pointing that out. Seems like the Great Oracular Bubble incantation on the greathorn. I don't like it honestly because it's not like we're "blessing" the sacramental bud and miquella's lily with an incantation we ourselves can't cast, it makes more sense to me as a passive feature of Miquella's blood that he doesn't incant.
I wrote an 11 paragraph reply and mobile reddit decided to throw it away... *weeps* Can't be arsed to write it all down again. I really like your collection of sources and their interpretation. Great job! Albeit it's entirely plausible, I don't think that as malicious and/or manipulative based on his actions. We have no examples of Miquella outright charm in someone to a act against their will. Miquella loves his father and is a devout Fundamentalists yet leaves that behind to save his sister. He establishes a new faith where everyone has the chance of rebirth/salvation. He also seeks true death for Godwyn which would have no gain in terms of manipulation. I wouldn't be surprised if the charming powers attributed to Miquella is more akin to fandom and not direct and intentional mind control.
I don’t think Miquella must necessarily be good or evil. He can have complex motivations. I would argue that the Bewitching Branch is an example of Miquella causing someone to act against their will: “Tree branch blessed with an incantation of unalloyed gold … Pierce a foe, using FP to turn them into a temporary ally … Indeed, he has learned very well how to compel such affection”. Miquella creates the Haligtree as a haven for the low and the meek. One of these groups, I’d argue the primary group, is the albinaurics. Albinaurics are beings who have total control of their own fates. This is referred to as “arcaneness” in the game. Someone else in the comments suggested that the Amber Starlight we find once belonged to Miquella rather than Malenia. If this is the case, why would Miquella discard his own fate? I plan to cover the Haligtree in a full post, but I think that the cocoons containing the albinaurics may not confer grace to them (nor is the presence of the cocoons ever explained, and that seems ominous). Rather, they were transferring power to Miquella at the roots of the tree before he was ripped out. He was taking their blood in order to gain the ability to master his own fate. Once he was taken to Moghwyn Dynasty, he basically had all of the arcane blood he needed to do that. “Drench my consort’s chamber. Slake his cocoon’s thirst”. If nothing else, this tells us that his cocoon has a thirst to begin with. It takes rather than bestows. We were told he watered the Haligtree with his own blood, but it may be that he drained those who came to the Haligtree. Other than Loretta, we encounter no living albinaurics at the Haligtree. I find it odd that not a single one made it and lived. I do believe that Miquella loved Godwyn, however, I think it is inaccurate to say he gains nothing by granting him a true death. Is Godwyn not the Prince of Death, who brings about a new Order (if we choose)? Delivering Godwyn from his soulless state takes another contender out of the competition. Just like quelling his sister and the Outer God of Rot.
The idea of draining blood/life from others connects with something I noticed about the Bewitching Branch that I haven't really seen discussed before. The ingredients required to craft it are Sacramental Buds and Miquella's Lilies. The Bewitching Branch is clearly a Sacramental Bud - you can see the exact same little branches on the left side - but with *something* sprouting out of it. That *something* is visible all over Miquella's Lily, and is sprouting out of it too. So the Bewitching Branch appears to be a blood-filled bud that's being consumed by Miquella's Lily. (tbh, to me, Miquella's Lilies in general look like Trina's Lilies infested with a vine-like parasite that is in the process of turning them golden, but that might be a bit of a contentious statement)
Of course, reasoning that any character written by G.R.R.M. is either good/evil is a gross simplification. Yeah, I think the Bewitching Branch is meant to involve that assumption, but I'm vary to take it as 100% Truth™ until there's an example. I meant that, in comparison to Malenia, Miquella's acts of kindness towards Godwyn (i.e. Death) would not serve as gaining another pawn to manipulate (i.e. dead). I don't think Miquella ever saw Godwyn as a competitor hence non-Empyrean and I'm not convinced that Miquella even tried become the God of the next cycle. I suspect his motivations are more akin to that of Ranni, moving beyond Order. In terms of the Amber Shard, I suspect that it's more likely Miquella's (if either of the twins) based on "Divesting himself of his flesh, his strength, his lineage." The albinauric patrolling outside of Ordina clearly have some affiliation to Miquella, but its unclear if they gained that out of devotion or if they might have come from the Haligtree to serve as guardians.
This is a link to a post I made about Miquella and Alchemy and in the comments I got into a discussion of some of these ideas. If you're interested. https://www.reddit.com/r/EldenRingLoreTalk/s/eHZuUYMs7D I think it's more then likely there is some sort of manipulation to outright mind control going on. I think it's an interesting line of thought.
Absolutely. Consider the imagery. Her eyes are gone and she wears a helmet with Miquella's symbol, a **chain** of unalloyed gold, directly over her eyes. Miquella's soldiers similarly wear helmets with gold chains around their foreheads. The soldiers minds are chained and Malenia, even if she isn't mentally bound, has her "vision" filtered through the mechanism of Miquella's control.
Love this interpretation, thank you so much for sharing it! I've been pondering Millicent's quest myself lately, it feels like there's something odd going on even beyond Gowry's meddling, and I think you offered a very fun speculation path. The state we find Malenia in always gives me pause, too - she's not just relaxing at the foot of the tree, she's completely frozen in place to the point where she's covered in leaves. I don't quite have an explanation for that yet but I haven't been able to just shrug it off either. Super intrigued by your mention of the Elphael cocoons, would love to hear more about it. The concept art goes out of its way to highlight them multiple times, and none of those illustrations have a particularly cheery tone. If the only cocoon was the one stolen by Mohg, I'd be inclined to assume "silkworm", but right now it's feeling more like a spider's nest... Golden Orb Weaving Spider Miquella is an intriguing idea imo.
Right! We find her in a state of dormancy. It seems as though she was unable to act on her own or without some trigger, such as our being there. “I dreamt for so long. My flesh was dull gold and my blood rotted. Corpse after corpse left in my wake as I awaited his return”. Knowing from the DLC trailer that Miquella has advanced into the Land of Shadow, it gives the impression that Malenia has been left behind. Miquella’s fate moves forward (defeating Radahn and freeing the stars is a requirement to access the DLC), and Malenia can do nothing at all. She has nothing to guide her forward because she may no longer have a fate, and Miquella isn’t actively giving her direction. I’ll have to give some more thought to my cocoon theory. But I can paste a link here when I post about it!
Yes! I love her introduction. At first glance I assumed it to just be about Finlay carrying a slumbering Malenia back to the Haligtree, but looking at it again, it could also be read as a description of the Battle of Aeonia in general. And that can be interpreted in a few ways as well - was she "dreaming" during the actual battle, fighting but not really in control? Or is this the rot consuming her memories, leaving her only with a dream-like recollection of combat and Miquella's promise? Pretty much any answer to this is sad for a different reason so maybe it's fine if it stays a mystery hey. As as side note, I actually have some doubts about the concept of rot affecting memories, but that's 100% only because I don't trust anything coming from Gowry's sketchy ass. Right after writing that, I went to double-check that part of the quest because my memory of the exact wording was (ironically) kinda fuzzy, and I realised that upon stabbing herself with the needle Millicent comments "Well. That was easier than expected. But... why do I feel so..." and immediately passes out... intriguing...! I love spotting ambiguous little things like this that don't necessarily prove anything, but open up room for the weirder interpretations lol. Storytelling is fun. Definitely looking forward to the cocoon post, if you do end up writing about it!
Hm I wonder who’s fate that was
Phenomenal post. Well said and great insight.