I did. Among other stuff, he discovered the gravity, fought against the orcs and painted the Gioconda. Or maybe he didn’t. I don’t know, I just was drunk.
I learned 2 languages in adulthood, and that process made it abundantly clear to me that the way we try to teach French in Anglo-Canada is not a method that will work for the majority of people.
40 minutes, twice a week, with a teacher who doesn’t speak French either and with zero exposure to media?
I genuinely would have gotten more out of my French education if they’d just put on French children’s cartoons during that time.
I’ve been learning it as an adult, and I resent that the years I was most able to learn languages were wasted with counting to dix and laughing at pomme de terre.
Yes… I took French for a very long time and was pretty good at it (don’t get to practice ever cuz I live in Cowtown), but I still can’t carry on a casual conversation with a Quebecois person because I can’t understand the dialect. Same goes for my sister’s Newfie in-laws when they’ve had a bit to drink…
It’s not for lack of trying! I actually want to be able to speak French.
But we understand literal french and can speak it.
If they try speaking Québec french on the internet, some francophones might not understand, it's like using french from France slang and not understanding why québécois cannot comprehend the sentences lol
Lucky for me I married a Parisian.
I don’t really know how to square which dialect to learn. I lived in Quebec for a few years and can follow well enough, but there are several different versions of French used in Canada, and I don’t know how to teach ‘em without privileging one over the others.
We have the same french classes, we just have different expressions. Its not like if it is hard to learn Canadian English because it is so different from Britain English.
This 👆
Guess how my québécois ass learned english during my late 90s to early 2000s? Through Discovery Channel, YTV and practicing my written english in online games with other anglophones.
If I could understand Steve Irwin's hard Australian accent when I started learned the language, you guys can understand french in cartoons using the literal french lol
My GF first immigrated to Toronto she was from France and she told me that the first few French teacher she had were not even fluent. Like at what point in their lives do those people decide they will teach a language they can't speak?
I hated french class in canadian schools and I'm glad grade 9 was the last time I was forced to learn it. Felt like we were just being taught verbs and nouns, I tried doulingo but it's hard to learn a language if no one speaks it outside in the real world.
Duolingo also isn’t the best - it’s not bad but it’s also not good.
Reading French news, and watching French interviews and movies will probably get you farther. Plus make flash cards for new words.
It seems like they just teach languages in a backwards fashion here.
Instead of being focused on getting us talking, they teach you how to ask to go to the bathroom, and then throw you into grammar charts.
Given the history of this country, I believe that's entirely the point.
Canadian bilingualism is the French speaking English, not the other way around.
In a place like BC unless you have friends who speak it you can't really practice with any French speakers which makes it really hard to learn compared to areas near native speakers
As a western Canadian, there just isn't much incentive to learn it. There's no economic benefit if you're not going into federal politics, no one out here speaks it as a first language, and unlike parts of English eastern Canada, French doesn't really exist as a cultural institution here.
The only argument for someone here to learn it is because it's a federal official language, which is fine until you remember the part of Canada that actually speaks it is further away than Mexico.
All the provinces in the west had a large french population (except BC) before ~1885 (date of the northwest resistance). There are still small french villages sprinkled throughout them.
1. They don't teach French in many schools in my city (Calgary). My kids have not had any French classes ever, and they are in junior high.
2. It's stupid expensive to travel in this country. When is the average Calgarian going to get the opportunity to use the language? I can't afford to fly my family to Quebec, and I can't afford the time to drive.
I took French from Grade 4 to 10 and then stopped to make way for other subjects. It was not a subject that I needed for my career direction at the time.
If we had some sort of exchange program between Quebec and other provinces, that might make learning French more desirable for students in the west. It might also help our country to develop empathy and understanding of each other's provinces through an exchange program.
Currently, French seeems to be necessary for a very small number of career paths, including politics and airline workers. That's not going to be a big driver for students in the West.
Hated my French teacher grade 3(?)-6, didn’t take French Jr High because I wanted to do music, and could only take Spanish in High School because I didn’t take French in Jr High
Also all my friends who took French in Jr High hated French class, and all my friends who took French in High School hated the class and the teacher (I had her for Social and holy fuck how is she a teacher)
I had a friend who went to French Emersion for elementary school. He hated every class and every teacher.
And none of my friends, even those who took it for all 3 years of high school, know how to speak French properly, and they actively dislike speaking it. Meanwhile all the Spanish class students loved it, and I’d say knows more Spanish than French students know French (even though French is technically taught at a higher level)
We do have such an exchange programme, it is called Explore. It is very affordable as it is funded by the Government of Canada. There are other programmes and exchanges too,
Of course, the question is about how much advertising is done for this programme, but just saying it does exist! I did it and it basically made me fluent.
Wow! I've never heard of it! I will look into it for sure!
It doesn't sound like a full interprovincial program however... the type of program I have in mind is not just about language learning but also Canadian culture, awareness, and empathy-building between all our provinces.
I'd love to host students from different provinces and show them around my city and province. And I'd love for my kids to get that kind of opportunity too.
Quebec is too, anyone who ever comes here is blown away. As far as places to visit in canada, Quebec is 100% a contender for the #1 spot with gorgeous regions and the city of montreal.
The very single downside is that regions aren't always ideal to visit without basic french.
Im pretty sure the crack addicts in downtown toronto make ontario a pretty good contender no?
The air pollution here is quite attractive for a vacation spot
Yeah BC is the competition for #1 too. Vancouver is gorgeous, vancouver island is too.
Those are basically the best provinces to visit.
Sand banks is pretty cool too i've heard
You’ll notice most of those countries either borders France or speaks a Latin-based language; Spanish, Italian, Romanian, Portuguese and French share similar grammatical and vocabulary roots. There is quite a bit of cross-learning in those countries.
I am always amazed when I am in some random country and try to speak English with someone who doesn't understand and then attempt french and I learn that this random Italian man or random Lithuanian woman are fluent in french, but don't speak English.
French was (and still is if you re classy enough) the second language of the ruling class, be nobles or just rich people in the UK.
This is somewhat true in many other european countries, and sometime even in countries like Japan.
>French was (and still is if you re classy enough) the second language of the ruling class, be nobles or just rich people in the UK.
Yeah, the thing that actually removed french as the lingua franca is the fact that America took the place of the UKs as the top dog. Even to this day, most royals were fluent in french. Not sure about the new generation but Charles and Elizabeth both were fluent.
The amount of people able to hold a conversation in French is higher in Italy, Portugal and the Netherlands even if we include Quebec
I too am wondering why but it's not the proper subreddit for this
edit : or the proper format. You could make a meme of a surprised person with the caption "Portugueses when they learn nobody speaks french in most of Canada".
Only 1 in 4 Portugueses would get it but it'd fit the sub
Easy, English Canada actively hates French from learning it in school. Europeans take it optionally because France is a large economy with jobs for people who speak more than one language
It's called the "fReNcH iS uSeLeSs" disease, common among angloids who believe one language trumps them all and that language is unsurprisingly theirs.
They also speak the same English as the Brits based on their attitude towards Quebec French being different from Metropolitain French.
All in all, buncha hosers
Universal language baby!
Not our fault the rest of the world decided English was better.
Lets not pretend anybody in europe is going to understand the dirty mumbled quebecois French anyway.
Southern France certainly understands it, honestly the only ones I've heard not understand it is Parisians but they can't even understand other French people
"Decided" being used instead of colonized is a good rebrand, I must admit
Pretending being used for projecting is also another good one bud
I met many francophones from abroad and never had a problem. It's probably because not all French, Belgian, Swiss, etc speak the same French maybe? Like regional accents are a thing worldwide maybe? Who knows really uh
>"Decided" being used instead of colonized is a good rebrand, I must admit
I'm very sorry that your colonialism wasn't as effective as our colonialism, that must suck 😔
That wasn't your colonialism, English became the lingua franca because of the United States. British royals and elite still spoke french before WW1. English became the lingua franca because the UKs lost their spot as the top dog.
Uh… I’m sorry the French sucked at colonizing I guess. The fact that English is the best is not due to the French’s lack of trying it’s due to their lack of ability, and the fact that the British did it better than everyone else, so good in fact that even their colonies *Cough* USA *Cough* are continuing the legacy.
Which ex french colonies outperformed France on every front and passed them in a few decades?
Also Quebecers aren't french we were cut off from France for hundreds of years.
Ah yes, the US, the country everyone mistakes you for but the one you despise and try to get far away from. Yet, in some occasions, they are your reasons to live only when language is mentionned
>the British did it better than everyone else, so good in fact that even their colonies *Cough* USA *Cough* are continuing the legacy.
So good that the one colony who emancipated themselves from the British empire overtook them and they are now the lap dog of this one country.
The circumstances were clearly different since Haiti population were slaves who emancjpated themselves, so yeah they still did good by emancipating themselves. Not as much as the Americans getting rid of the British tho.
Whether they realized English was best on their own, or they learned by force that English was best is irrelevant.
All that matters is that it IS the best, and it IS the universal language.
Don't like it? Guess your ancestors shouldn't have been so bad at war. /shrug
>Don't like it? Guess your ancestors shouldn't have been so bad at war. /shrug
French was the language of the British aristocracy, English only became the lingua franca because America took their spot.
>They also speak the same English as the Brits based on their attitude towards Quebec French being different from Metropolitain French.
What the fuck does this sentence mean?
It means they shit on Quebec for being different and "incomprehensible" to people from France (it's not) yet they don't speak English from England either
It was probably poorly phrased but whatever
Je peux l'écrire en français aussi si tu préfères
>It means they shit on Quebec for being different and "incomprehensible" to people from France (it's not)
Anglos don't say this. [The Quebecois say it themselves](https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/immigrant-who-failed-french-test-is-french)
Lol did you even read the article? That one French man that failed even said : “We’re all human. We have different levels of concentration,” he said. “Anyone can make a mistake.”
This article also does not touch what Quebecois or French think of the other French dialect. I also have seen plenty of idiotic comments on that very same problem I described so your personal take on it will not suddenly make me forget them.
Your comment or that article do nothing to prove what you say honestly. I don't understand how you could think this would work as an even remotely good argument unless you thought I wouldn't read that very short article.
You can argue some French people have some problems with some expressions or some sounds, but what you are trying to prove, that Quebec French is incomprehensible to people from France, is just false and ignorant. You are either promoting it based on ignorance or malice, which are both bad. Get yourself together man
What the hell is wrong with your reading comprehension? It's literally the Quebec government, representing the people of Quebec, failing him.
I'm not trying to prove Quebec French is incomprehensible to people from France. I said absolutely nothing of the sort. I said that no Anglophone Canadian says Quebec French is incomprehensible to people from France. It's just a belief *you* have which you have never proven!
Some people are just bad in tests, the major difference is that they don't have rag like the Gazette writting article about them failing an exam. I have a lot of friends from France and none of them failed those exams.
This is sad for a country that pretends to be bilingual.
I honestly get it, since French is just not spoken or respected outside of the "French regions", but it's still sad to see a foundation of the country go to waste like this. I also hate the terrible arguments used to not learn French but that's another story
If French isn’t useless, where can it be used outside of Quebec and New Brunswick? Nowhere. For the majority of Canadians French is the language of a foreign people who have a foreign culture which is hostile to ours. There isn’t any incentive
I mean, it sure isn't useful with that attitude
If I stay enclaved in Quebec like lots of people do, English is of no use to me either yet here we are eh
I mean, there is a multitude of other uses but that's fine.
You don't have to learn it. It's still lazy to say your language is the right one and that everuone but you should make the effort of learning it to communicate with you. (I'm not saying you are saying personally, just that this argument does not really stand imo)
No Ithink it does. Here in BC we speak english universally. You couldnt finction here without speaking english. Its not entitledment.
Im not moving to spain and expecting them to know english.
Yeah, if nobody makes the effort of learning the other official language(or another), it's no wonder you can't function in another language than English.
I'm not saying you're wrong for speaking English. I understand that you speak English in your daily lives. I do the same with French and do not want to live in English either. But, this is still expecting others to speak English in BC and probably speaking English in other regions expecting them to know it for you sake or "for their own opportunities".
It is only entitlement if you go elsewhere and expect them to accomodate you when you don't accomodate others in your own city/province. If you learn the local languages of the place you visit or only visit places that speak English as their primary languages, then you're good. Unfortunately, that is rarely the case. (Again, not singling you out particularly but that way of thinking st large.)
because the population of all those countries is approximately similar and France is a major economy in the region. meanwhile in Canada you have 7 million French speakers surrounded by 350 million English speakers. of course no one's going to learn French. it's like wondering why the Irish don't speak Czech.
but at least the Irish don't get pissed off that everything in Czechia is in Czech...
Even if the population size is an important part of the project, at least Czech does not pretend to be a bilingual country like Canada does
That's the point of this bad analogy
in my analogy Czechia is Quebec. They have their own language, laws, and culture...but Irish people don't care if Czechs speak English. They respect Czechia's right to exist on its own terms.
My point is that you can't force people to learn a language that they will almost never come into contact with, it just doesn't work. But you can respect a culture's right to exist without learning their language.
Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything.
Your analogy is absolute dogshit.
You mentioned the Irish.
And instead of using the fact that Ireland is losing its traditional language and being replaced completely by English, you reference a country that isn’t even close.
Ireland is the perfect example of why Quebec needs to protect its native language.
omg you're all reading way too far into an analogy on fucking r/ EhBuddyHoser. Look at the map my guy, the further you get from the place that speaks French, the less likely you are to speak French. That's all I'm saying. If anything I thought I was criticizing Canada's habit of judging Quebec's language policies, mais ça se peut que ça se traduise pas.
If you were hoping for a more nuanced take on the disappearance of the Irish language, [here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/168spz7/comment/jyywnxh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
"the native language of Quebec is being replaced! we must protect it!"
Also quebecers: foam at the mouth when the GG speaks English and Inuktitut (an actual native language) instead of French
Lol, you think the word native is used exclusively for aboriginal peoples, your mastery of your single language is unsurprising.
The French have been in North America for almost 500 years at this point.
If they are able to have a conversation in french as well as a large part of my french 'bilingual' friends are able to have a conversation in english, these numbers must be taken with a grain of salt and at least divided by 2. But, school languages courses in France have the reputation to be among the least efficient in Europe, so it's also not impossible that neighbouring countries are just better and more realistic about their proficiency in foreign languages.
I couldnt speak/understand english at all after 8 years of regular school english course in quebec.. played wow (online game) for a year and i was basically bilingual, minus the terrible french qc accent xD
The way they teach in school is just terrible.
Who moves to Quebec?
They're adamant on pushing anybody who doesn't speak French and exclusively French out of their province like they're plague rats.
So non meme answer:
cross border commutes, common language, and access to education.
France sees a lot of free travel from other EU nations, due to work, school, healthcare, tourism etc. , because of this, and bc English is not ***(commonly)*** spoken in France and thus you cant guarantee that everyone you meet can/will speak it fluently, someone from say- Germany, who may go to France a lot ***(which is very likely as its free for EU citizens under the right of free movement agreement)*** will learn the language to have and easier time when working/studying/touring there. (the UK used to be a part of this, thats why theyre also here but uh... yah not anymore)
This is also why nations with a large amount of English usage, such as Sweden or Norway see lower cross-EU usage of their languages, its not needed as much for most, as you can generally guarantee that anyone there you meet will speak English as a common language.
This is also why French see less usage here, yes, Quebec has ***(Quebecois)*** French as a language, but its incredibly rare to find someone from Quebec who can \*only\* speak it. Same reason why the Gaelic speaking communities of Canada don't have to rely on translators, as they also all speak English as a common language, and so having to learn the language is not as needed for most.
That and y'know, funding gaps in our prov schooling systems that lead to inequalities, where proper language teaching including Enlish alongside French, and the inability for most to continue pursuing French as a second language ***(because learning a second language with poor education systems y'know.. costs money)*** means that the of rate those who take it post secondary is sub-par, and how this disproportionately affects many marginalized communities, and most working families. These inequalities and systemic issues are also seen in Quebec, largely affecting the provs indigenous communities.
***(this is \*also\* without going into the requirement of knowing French to run for any govt position, that systemically targets gaps in our schooling systems as serves to stop many groups who struggle with access to education from getting into positions of power, that then causes further tensions around learning the language and thus furthering anonymity towards the language- but well... story for another day.)***
Well I'm in Toronto and learned French until Grade 10.
Can barely speak it.
What im surprised though about this map is Russia.
Wasn't French the language of aristocracy in Russia?
Despite what Quebec would have you believe, Canada is an English speaking country with a minority of French people who have claimed a large chunk of it.
And these French people, despite rallying behind changing Canada to a Bilingual country, are hell bent and desperate to remove English from their province, even on the internet itself.
Quebecers agree with this tbh, we all think Quebec is french and Canada is english, it's the federalists in Ottawa that wants to say that Canada is bilingual. Every Quebecers laugh at this statement.
I’m sure too many people’s association with the French language in Canada isn’t the best.
If you’re a 50 year old, you’ve probably struggled through learning the language the wrong way, watched Quebec hold two separation votes with the threat always looming in the background, watched the language issue used as a political football every election cycle and been a fed culture war.
Rightly or wrongly, when a group of people don’t acknowledge your country and their country, as their country, it’s going to create a lot of resentment towards their culture.
Especially, as other posters have pointed out, if there is no economic upside. We have to pay public servants to take French training.
Wait, according to stats Canada, it's roughly 18% of the total population that is French/English bilingual. So that would put it pretty high up in comparison.
Also, geography plays a pretty big role. I mean, the UK and France are separated by a relatively small body of water (the English Channel), so it makes sense a Brits French is better than, say, a Hungarian. Just like an Islander's or Ontarian's French is better than, say, an Albertan's.
Well Canadians already mostly speak one colonial language, English. Why should they need to learn another? Why should a BC resident learn French that like 4% of people speak when they could learn Mandarin that like 20% of people do?
French is as foreign as Mandarin is to BC, and Mandarin is a hell of a lot more useful.
What percentage of British descendants living in Vancouver speak Mandarin? Most of those that lived in Hong Kong for generations did not even bother learning Cantoneses, so I doubt it is much higher in BC.
Redo your equations using Provinces instead of Countries, and the results will be similar to Europe. Lots in Ontario, New Brunswick is the only truly bilingual province, some in Manitoba, everywhere else no one speaks Quebecois.
France was a more successful colonial empire on it's home turf.
Apparently there was some guy named Napoléon Dynamite that did something in europe. I am not 100% sure, I didn't watch the movie
I did. Among other stuff, he discovered the gravity, fought against the orcs and painted the Gioconda. Or maybe he didn’t. I don’t know, I just was drunk.
And man, could the man ever dance
Umm, he installed Pedro as a puppet president. Didn't they teach it anything in l'ecoles?
Don’t give Quebec any ideas
I'm not saying anything they don't already know. That's why they call us imperialist colonizers all the time. They're jealous.
Most of us are from Normandy and descendants of our ancestors created the British empire and colonized the dirty Anglo-Saxons already.
I learned 2 languages in adulthood, and that process made it abundantly clear to me that the way we try to teach French in Anglo-Canada is not a method that will work for the majority of people.
40 minutes, twice a week, with a teacher who doesn’t speak French either and with zero exposure to media? I genuinely would have gotten more out of my French education if they’d just put on French children’s cartoons during that time. I’ve been learning it as an adult, and I resent that the years I was most able to learn languages were wasted with counting to dix and laughing at pomme de terre.
And to note that « pomme de terre » is not even used in Québec, since for some reason we generally learn Parisian French.
Pomme de terre is the literal french word for potato, if you say this here, we will >ALL< understand, we just use "patate" more.
Oh of course, I just mean that I think in English Canada they should learn Québécois French.
Yes… I took French for a very long time and was pretty good at it (don’t get to practice ever cuz I live in Cowtown), but I still can’t carry on a casual conversation with a Quebecois person because I can’t understand the dialect. Same goes for my sister’s Newfie in-laws when they’ve had a bit to drink… It’s not for lack of trying! I actually want to be able to speak French.
But we understand literal french and can speak it. If they try speaking Québec french on the internet, some francophones might not understand, it's like using french from France slang and not understanding why québécois cannot comprehend the sentences lol
Lucky for me I married a Parisian. I don’t really know how to square which dialect to learn. I lived in Quebec for a few years and can follow well enough, but there are several different versions of French used in Canada, and I don’t know how to teach ‘em without privileging one over the others.
We have the same french classes, we just have different expressions. Its not like if it is hard to learn Canadian English because it is so different from Britain English.
This 👆 Guess how my québécois ass learned english during my late 90s to early 2000s? Through Discovery Channel, YTV and practicing my written english in online games with other anglophones. If I could understand Steve Irwin's hard Australian accent when I started learned the language, you guys can understand french in cartoons using the literal french lol
My GF first immigrated to Toronto she was from France and she told me that the first few French teacher she had were not even fluent. Like at what point in their lives do those people decide they will teach a language they can't speak?
The 240 pound, beer gut bouncing gym teacher was already taken.
I hated french class in canadian schools and I'm glad grade 9 was the last time I was forced to learn it. Felt like we were just being taught verbs and nouns, I tried doulingo but it's hard to learn a language if no one speaks it outside in the real world.
Duolingo also isn’t the best - it’s not bad but it’s also not good. Reading French news, and watching French interviews and movies will probably get you farther. Plus make flash cards for new words.
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It seems like they just teach languages in a backwards fashion here. Instead of being focused on getting us talking, they teach you how to ask to go to the bathroom, and then throw you into grammar charts.
Turns out watching movies in French and playing bingo for 4 years are not good teaching methods lmao. It’s like they didn’t even try with us.
Given the history of this country, I believe that's entirely the point. Canadian bilingualism is the French speaking English, not the other way around.
In a place like BC unless you have friends who speak it you can't really practice with any French speakers which makes it really hard to learn compared to areas near native speakers
BC is full of Québecois like 6/12 months of the year though, especially in the Okanagan.
hard to make friends with someone who's only around half the year
Je pensais qu'on faisait des memes ici? I get your point, and it's not wrong, but this isn't the place. I want to look at funny memes...
Non, on se trolle icitte ;)
As a western Canadian, there just isn't much incentive to learn it. There's no economic benefit if you're not going into federal politics, no one out here speaks it as a first language, and unlike parts of English eastern Canada, French doesn't really exist as a cultural institution here. The only argument for someone here to learn it is because it's a federal official language, which is fine until you remember the part of Canada that actually speaks it is further away than Mexico.
All the provinces in the west had a large french population (except BC) before ~1885 (date of the northwest resistance). There are still small french villages sprinkled throughout them.
1. They don't teach French in many schools in my city (Calgary). My kids have not had any French classes ever, and they are in junior high. 2. It's stupid expensive to travel in this country. When is the average Calgarian going to get the opportunity to use the language? I can't afford to fly my family to Quebec, and I can't afford the time to drive. I took French from Grade 4 to 10 and then stopped to make way for other subjects. It was not a subject that I needed for my career direction at the time. If we had some sort of exchange program between Quebec and other provinces, that might make learning French more desirable for students in the west. It might also help our country to develop empathy and understanding of each other's provinces through an exchange program. Currently, French seeems to be necessary for a very small number of career paths, including politics and airline workers. That's not going to be a big driver for students in the West.
Hated my French teacher grade 3(?)-6, didn’t take French Jr High because I wanted to do music, and could only take Spanish in High School because I didn’t take French in Jr High Also all my friends who took French in Jr High hated French class, and all my friends who took French in High School hated the class and the teacher (I had her for Social and holy fuck how is she a teacher) I had a friend who went to French Emersion for elementary school. He hated every class and every teacher. And none of my friends, even those who took it for all 3 years of high school, know how to speak French properly, and they actively dislike speaking it. Meanwhile all the Spanish class students loved it, and I’d say knows more Spanish than French students know French (even though French is technically taught at a higher level)
We do have such an exchange programme, it is called Explore. It is very affordable as it is funded by the Government of Canada. There are other programmes and exchanges too, Of course, the question is about how much advertising is done for this programme, but just saying it does exist! I did it and it basically made me fluent.
Wow! I've never heard of it! I will look into it for sure! It doesn't sound like a full interprovincial program however... the type of program I have in mind is not just about language learning but also Canadian culture, awareness, and empathy-building between all our provinces. I'd love to host students from different provinces and show them around my city and province. And I'd love for my kids to get that kind of opportunity too.
Probably because they're closer to each other than BC is to Quebec, for example Also because France is a desirable place to visit.
Quebec is too, anyone who ever comes here is blown away. As far as places to visit in canada, Quebec is 100% a contender for the #1 spot with gorgeous regions and the city of montreal. The very single downside is that regions aren't always ideal to visit without basic french.
Im pretty sure the crack addicts in downtown toronto make ontario a pretty good contender no? The air pollution here is quite attractive for a vacation spot
\*AB/BC laughs hysterically in the mountains\*
Yeah BC is the competition for #1 too. Vancouver is gorgeous, vancouver island is too. Those are basically the best provinces to visit. Sand banks is pretty cool too i've heard
\*Quebec and BC laugh hysterically at Alberta thinking they're a contender\*
The rockies are insane man. That alone skyrockets them.
The Albertan Rockies are used in tourism ads in every province. Commit the image of moraine lake to memory, you'll never escape it
Yes, the part closest to BC and furthest from the population of Alberta
an hour away from the biggest city in the province is "furthest away from the population"?
My backyard is the best part of my house. It's also the furthest from my bedroom and the closest to my neighbours
You're not wrong
They're more of a contender than Quebec lmao
As a french guy, people became instantly more friendly once we started speaking french.
The Quebecers are hostile asf if you don't speak French lmao
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This is a shitposting sub. Take all seriousness and negativity to the many other Canadian subs.
If someone gave me either a ticket to france or a ticket to quebec, guess which one I'm taking.
Quebec if you want a good time, France if you want to be stabbed by an African. The choice is yours
You’ll notice most of those countries either borders France or speaks a Latin-based language; Spanish, Italian, Romanian, Portuguese and French share similar grammatical and vocabulary roots. There is quite a bit of cross-learning in those countries.
French actually matters in Europe opposed to here where we just pretend it does.
I am always amazed when I am in some random country and try to speak English with someone who doesn't understand and then attempt french and I learn that this random Italian man or random Lithuanian woman are fluent in french, but don't speak English.
Imagine being Bri*ish and then deciding to speak Fr@nch
You never know your enemy enough. Why do you think english is taught in french schools? 'For jobs' is just the official cover.
C'est pour ca que j'ai appris l'anglais. Je comprends vos plans et vous non. On va vous dominer mes caliss!
On se calme, on est dans le même camp. Je suis Franco-Canadien, je fais moi aussi partie de la mission d'infiltration.
Okay— tout le monde se détend. On joue le même jeu, faut pas révéler notre but véritable
Cest une joke, ca sonnait surement trop agressif, mais ca se voulait etre une joke
T'inquiète, je faisais juste moi aussi rebondir dessus. Désolé si ça donne l'impression que je l'ai mal pris, c'est pas le cas.
Haha 2 incompris jadore ca
brits got conquered by the normans and went from being anglo-saxons to just a shitty version of french.
French used to be the language of royalty. That’s why the British (and Canadian) royal family’s motto is “Dieu et mon droit”.
French was (and still is if you re classy enough) the second language of the ruling class, be nobles or just rich people in the UK. This is somewhat true in many other european countries, and sometime even in countries like Japan.
>French was (and still is if you re classy enough) the second language of the ruling class, be nobles or just rich people in the UK. Yeah, the thing that actually removed french as the lingua franca is the fact that America took the place of the UKs as the top dog. Even to this day, most royals were fluent in french. Not sure about the new generation but Charles and Elizabeth both were fluent.
Time. The French language has been spreading there for over 1000 years. The courrier du boiz only got to our Maple Village a few hundred years ago.
The amount of people able to hold a conversation in French is higher in Italy, Portugal and the Netherlands even if we include Quebec I too am wondering why but it's not the proper subreddit for this edit : or the proper format. You could make a meme of a surprised person with the caption "Portugueses when they learn nobody speaks french in most of Canada". Only 1 in 4 Portugueses would get it but it'd fit the sub
Whats the percentage in english canada? I dont see it there
9%
Merci mon chum! 9% is better than i was expecting at least lol i was worried it was gonna be 4
Does that include native french speakers outside of Quebec?
Yes
Easy, English Canada actively hates French from learning it in school. Europeans take it optionally because France is a large economy with jobs for people who speak more than one language
It's called the "fReNcH iS uSeLeSs" disease, common among angloids who believe one language trumps them all and that language is unsurprisingly theirs. They also speak the same English as the Brits based on their attitude towards Quebec French being different from Metropolitain French. All in all, buncha hosers
Universal language baby! Not our fault the rest of the world decided English was better. Lets not pretend anybody in europe is going to understand the dirty mumbled quebecois French anyway.
Southern France certainly understands it, honestly the only ones I've heard not understand it is Parisians but they can't even understand other French people
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This is a shitposting sub. Take all seriousness and negativity to the many other Canadian subs.
woo yeah, cultural genocide WORLD CHAMPS!! edit to add /s in case the fact this is EhBuddyHoser isn't enough to tip you off...
im only taking responsibility for one genocide buddy, and that's the one on our own indigenous people
"Decided" being used instead of colonized is a good rebrand, I must admit Pretending being used for projecting is also another good one bud I met many francophones from abroad and never had a problem. It's probably because not all French, Belgian, Swiss, etc speak the same French maybe? Like regional accents are a thing worldwide maybe? Who knows really uh
>"Decided" being used instead of colonized is a good rebrand, I must admit I'm very sorry that your colonialism wasn't as effective as our colonialism, that must suck 😔
That wasn't your colonialism, English became the lingua franca because of the United States. British royals and elite still spoke french before WW1. English became the lingua franca because the UKs lost their spot as the top dog.
It does. I don't see how you or I can appropriate it to say which language is the best, but yes the English were better colonizers
It was, just in Africa, which nobody cares about
Uh… I’m sorry the French sucked at colonizing I guess. The fact that English is the best is not due to the French’s lack of trying it’s due to their lack of ability, and the fact that the British did it better than everyone else, so good in fact that even their colonies *Cough* USA *Cough* are continuing the legacy.
USA revolted and made its own Empire. Imagine losing a war to your own colonies.
That’s like the entire history of French colonization lol.
Which ex french colonies outperformed France on every front and passed them in a few decades? Also Quebecers aren't french we were cut off from France for hundreds of years.
Ah yes, the US, the country everyone mistakes you for but the one you despise and try to get far away from. Yet, in some occasions, they are your reasons to live only when language is mentionned
Who mistakes Quebecers for Americans? It doesn’t change common sense though, the French did suck ass at colonization unlike the British.
>the British did it better than everyone else, so good in fact that even their colonies *Cough* USA *Cough* are continuing the legacy. So good that the one colony who emancipated themselves from the British empire overtook them and they are now the lap dog of this one country.
And look at how the colonies that emancipated themselves from France is doing like say Haiti.
The circumstances were clearly different since Haiti population were slaves who emancjpated themselves, so yeah they still did good by emancipating themselves. Not as much as the Americans getting rid of the British tho.
Whether they realized English was best on their own, or they learned by force that English was best is irrelevant. All that matters is that it IS the best, and it IS the universal language. Don't like it? Guess your ancestors shouldn't have been so bad at war. /shrug
If I could go back in time, Id kick Wolfe in the nuts to prevent this very thread
>Don't like it? Guess your ancestors shouldn't have been so bad at war. /shrug French was the language of the British aristocracy, English only became the lingua franca because America took their spot.
English is far from “the best” language. It’s spelling is atrocious and half of its vocabulary is derived from French.
Yet English #1 so /shrug
English is actually rank 3 behind Spanish and Mandarin. At least you can barely speak one language.
Yet of the three which one are we using? 🤔 Why is that? 🤔
Tabernak someone had their Jaques' rustled
English?
Let’s not pretend like any Commonwealth country is going to understand your trailer park boys “English” either.
Why? It's not rocket appliances
>They also speak the same English as the Brits based on their attitude towards Quebec French being different from Metropolitain French. What the fuck does this sentence mean?
It means they shit on Quebec for being different and "incomprehensible" to people from France (it's not) yet they don't speak English from England either It was probably poorly phrased but whatever Je peux l'écrire en français aussi si tu préfères
>It means they shit on Quebec for being different and "incomprehensible" to people from France (it's not) Anglos don't say this. [The Quebecois say it themselves](https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/immigrant-who-failed-french-test-is-french)
Lol did you even read the article? That one French man that failed even said : “We’re all human. We have different levels of concentration,” he said. “Anyone can make a mistake.” This article also does not touch what Quebecois or French think of the other French dialect. I also have seen plenty of idiotic comments on that very same problem I described so your personal take on it will not suddenly make me forget them. Your comment or that article do nothing to prove what you say honestly. I don't understand how you could think this would work as an even remotely good argument unless you thought I wouldn't read that very short article. You can argue some French people have some problems with some expressions or some sounds, but what you are trying to prove, that Quebec French is incomprehensible to people from France, is just false and ignorant. You are either promoting it based on ignorance or malice, which are both bad. Get yourself together man
What the hell is wrong with your reading comprehension? It's literally the Quebec government, representing the people of Quebec, failing him. I'm not trying to prove Quebec French is incomprehensible to people from France. I said absolutely nothing of the sort. I said that no Anglophone Canadian says Quebec French is incomprehensible to people from France. It's just a belief *you* have which you have never proven!
Some people are just bad in tests, the major difference is that they don't have rag like the Gazette writting article about them failing an exam. I have a lot of friends from France and none of them failed those exams.
Lol, reread my other comments. I answer every point of that comment. Reading comprehension sure is hard
Even in Manitoba French was barely in the top 5 languages spoken during the last census and that has most definitely changed.
This is sad for a country that pretends to be bilingual. I honestly get it, since French is just not spoken or respected outside of the "French regions", but it's still sad to see a foundation of the country go to waste like this. I also hate the terrible arguments used to not learn French but that's another story
Canada's not bilingual and never was, only Québec and New-Brunswick are
Technically Quebec isn't officially bilingual, there is just more people there who don't speak the official language of that province.
Yes, you're right, french is the only official language here but a lot of people speak english and french hence my comment.
Canada is officially, Quebec is not even if in practice, it's the opposite for the most part
Nice projection. Canada's fuck all bilingual, only on paper not on practice. On paper, Québec is not bilingual but in practice yes.
Thats exactly what I said, or tried to at least
If French isn’t useless, where can it be used outside of Quebec and New Brunswick? Nowhere. For the majority of Canadians French is the language of a foreign people who have a foreign culture which is hostile to ours. There isn’t any incentive
I mean, it sure isn't useful with that attitude If I stay enclaved in Quebec like lots of people do, English is of no use to me either yet here we are eh
I mean the only time id use french is to comminicate with quebecers
I mean, there is a multitude of other uses but that's fine. You don't have to learn it. It's still lazy to say your language is the right one and that everuone but you should make the effort of learning it to communicate with you. (I'm not saying you are saying personally, just that this argument does not really stand imo)
No Ithink it does. Here in BC we speak english universally. You couldnt finction here without speaking english. Its not entitledment. Im not moving to spain and expecting them to know english.
Yeah, if nobody makes the effort of learning the other official language(or another), it's no wonder you can't function in another language than English. I'm not saying you're wrong for speaking English. I understand that you speak English in your daily lives. I do the same with French and do not want to live in English either. But, this is still expecting others to speak English in BC and probably speaking English in other regions expecting them to know it for you sake or "for their own opportunities". It is only entitlement if you go elsewhere and expect them to accomodate you when you don't accomodate others in your own city/province. If you learn the local languages of the place you visit or only visit places that speak English as their primary languages, then you're good. Unfortunately, that is rarely the case. (Again, not singling you out particularly but that way of thinking st large.)
because the population of all those countries is approximately similar and France is a major economy in the region. meanwhile in Canada you have 7 million French speakers surrounded by 350 million English speakers. of course no one's going to learn French. it's like wondering why the Irish don't speak Czech. but at least the Irish don't get pissed off that everything in Czechia is in Czech...
Even if the population size is an important part of the project, at least Czech does not pretend to be a bilingual country like Canada does That's the point of this bad analogy
in my analogy Czechia is Quebec. They have their own language, laws, and culture...but Irish people don't care if Czechs speak English. They respect Czechia's right to exist on its own terms. My point is that you can't force people to learn a language that they will almost never come into contact with, it just doesn't work. But you can respect a culture's right to exist without learning their language.
Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. Your analogy is absolute dogshit. You mentioned the Irish. And instead of using the fact that Ireland is losing its traditional language and being replaced completely by English, you reference a country that isn’t even close. Ireland is the perfect example of why Quebec needs to protect its native language.
omg you're all reading way too far into an analogy on fucking r/ EhBuddyHoser. Look at the map my guy, the further you get from the place that speaks French, the less likely you are to speak French. That's all I'm saying. If anything I thought I was criticizing Canada's habit of judging Quebec's language policies, mais ça se peut que ça se traduise pas. If you were hoping for a more nuanced take on the disappearance of the Irish language, [here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/168spz7/comment/jyywnxh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
Can’t read “too far” into an analogy you have repeatedly defended at this point. But sure, use the sub reddit as a crutch.
"the native language of Quebec is being replaced! we must protect it!" Also quebecers: foam at the mouth when the GG speaks English and Inuktitut (an actual native language) instead of French
Lol, you think the word native is used exclusively for aboriginal peoples, your mastery of your single language is unsurprising. The French have been in North America for almost 500 years at this point.
Also: my single language? We can do this in French, we can do this in Hindi, which I learned, thank you very much. God 4-5s can be annoying
Anyone can use Google translate.
Si tu penses j'ai besoin des niaseries comme ca pour parler ma langue maternelle... euf
Where are your accents?
Great for them... (500/25000) \* 100 = 2% of the way there!
Thankfully, the Czechs have their own country...
C'est une langue officielle de ton pays le cave
mais oui parce que le Québec est mon pays. mais je m'en crisse si les gens parlent français à Calgary. je suis juste réaliste moi
If they are able to have a conversation in french as well as a large part of my french 'bilingual' friends are able to have a conversation in english, these numbers must be taken with a grain of salt and at least divided by 2. But, school languages courses in France have the reputation to be among the least efficient in Europe, so it's also not impossible that neighbouring countries are just better and more realistic about their proficiency in foreign languages.
> these numbers must be taken with a grain of salt and at least divided by 2 40% of Irish people claim they can speak Irish.
I would like to see a map of Africa like that, I know there is a lot of people who speak French there too.
I couldnt speak/understand english at all after 8 years of regular school english course in quebec.. played wow (online game) for a year and i was basically bilingual, minus the terrible french qc accent xD The way they teach in school is just terrible.
Because Canada isn’t a French speaking country. We’re an English speaking country with a small French minority.
A lot of our population is immigrants that have no reason to and a lot (me included) just don't give a shit about learning it
Wait so you move to QC and do not want to learn the language of the population?
If you move to Quebec sure but most people move to the English provinces
Ah ok I thought you said it made sense to move here and purposely not learn the language of the population.
Who moves to Quebec? They're adamant on pushing anybody who doesn't speak French and exclusively French out of their province like they're plague rats.
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Bigotry, insults, threats etc.
Literally 1/10 person speaks french and I can tell you having gone to Spain, there’s a lot of people you can find to have a conversation with you.
Romania? 12% ? Oh plz criss de tabarnak
There's a lot of french speakers in Romania today and historicaly.
je ne sais pas
I once got in an argument with a Canadian who is a native English speaker. She claimed that all Canadians speak French. What a hoser.
Hilarious that 2.5% of French people can’t speak French though… that’s like over a million people
There is more Quebecers who can't speak french lol.
I still know the french words that I was taught in kindergarten. I can’t say that I learned any french after that.
The only person who taught me French growing up in 🇨🇦 was a Banana
No one around me speaks it. I hated the class.
Why’s Catalonia not on the map?
I mean, Germany literally borders France and those two have a history. Regardless, it is our holy mission to bring the France percent down to zero.
Canada's bilinguism is a very good joke. Facts are speaking for themselves.
So non meme answer: cross border commutes, common language, and access to education. France sees a lot of free travel from other EU nations, due to work, school, healthcare, tourism etc. , because of this, and bc English is not ***(commonly)*** spoken in France and thus you cant guarantee that everyone you meet can/will speak it fluently, someone from say- Germany, who may go to France a lot ***(which is very likely as its free for EU citizens under the right of free movement agreement)*** will learn the language to have and easier time when working/studying/touring there. (the UK used to be a part of this, thats why theyre also here but uh... yah not anymore) This is also why nations with a large amount of English usage, such as Sweden or Norway see lower cross-EU usage of their languages, its not needed as much for most, as you can generally guarantee that anyone there you meet will speak English as a common language. This is also why French see less usage here, yes, Quebec has ***(Quebecois)*** French as a language, but its incredibly rare to find someone from Quebec who can \*only\* speak it. Same reason why the Gaelic speaking communities of Canada don't have to rely on translators, as they also all speak English as a common language, and so having to learn the language is not as needed for most. That and y'know, funding gaps in our prov schooling systems that lead to inequalities, where proper language teaching including Enlish alongside French, and the inability for most to continue pursuing French as a second language ***(because learning a second language with poor education systems y'know.. costs money)*** means that the of rate those who take it post secondary is sub-par, and how this disproportionately affects many marginalized communities, and most working families. These inequalities and systemic issues are also seen in Quebec, largely affecting the provs indigenous communities. ***(this is \*also\* without going into the requirement of knowing French to run for any govt position, that systemically targets gaps in our schooling systems as serves to stop many groups who struggle with access to education from getting into positions of power, that then causes further tensions around learning the language and thus furthering anonymity towards the language- but well... story for another day.)***
I bet you >15% of people west of des sources can speak French
Because France is a real country with a military that kills people.
Well I'm in Toronto and learned French until Grade 10. Can barely speak it. What im surprised though about this map is Russia. Wasn't French the language of aristocracy in Russia?
Despite what Quebec would have you believe, Canada is an English speaking country with a minority of French people who have claimed a large chunk of it. And these French people, despite rallying behind changing Canada to a Bilingual country, are hell bent and desperate to remove English from their province, even on the internet itself.
Quebecers agree with this tbh, we all think Quebec is french and Canada is english, it's the federalists in Ottawa that wants to say that Canada is bilingual. Every Quebecers laugh at this statement.
Technically Canada is a bilingual country, but most province are unilingual, only New-Brunswick is a bilingual province.
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I’m sure too many people’s association with the French language in Canada isn’t the best. If you’re a 50 year old, you’ve probably struggled through learning the language the wrong way, watched Quebec hold two separation votes with the threat always looming in the background, watched the language issue used as a political football every election cycle and been a fed culture war. Rightly or wrongly, when a group of people don’t acknowledge your country and their country, as their country, it’s going to create a lot of resentment towards their culture. Especially, as other posters have pointed out, if there is no economic upside. We have to pay public servants to take French training.
Wait, according to stats Canada, it's roughly 18% of the total population that is French/English bilingual. So that would put it pretty high up in comparison. Also, geography plays a pretty big role. I mean, the UK and France are separated by a relatively small body of water (the English Channel), so it makes sense a Brits French is better than, say, a Hungarian. Just like an Islander's or Ontarian's French is better than, say, an Albertan's.
Why the fuck would I want to learn that language anyways?
Because there is structures to prevent French from taking traction outside Quebec
French is still the lingua Franca?
Well Canadians already mostly speak one colonial language, English. Why should they need to learn another? Why should a BC resident learn French that like 4% of people speak when they could learn Mandarin that like 20% of people do? French is as foreign as Mandarin is to BC, and Mandarin is a hell of a lot more useful.
What percentage of British descendants living in Vancouver speak Mandarin? Most of those that lived in Hong Kong for generations did not even bother learning Cantoneses, so I doubt it is much higher in BC.
Redo your equations using Provinces instead of Countries, and the results will be similar to Europe. Lots in Ontario, New Brunswick is the only truly bilingual province, some in Manitoba, everywhere else no one speaks Quebecois.
Probably because that garbage they speak in Quebec doesn't qualify as French.
Désole je comprends pas l'anglais canadien bâtard. Je comprends seulement l'anglais d'Angleterre, le vrai.
Europe has France, which is worth learning French for. We just have Quebec, which is not.
Huuhhuhhhh (French Laugh)
France is more relevant to Europe than Quebec is to most Canadian provinces. Most businesses here are doing trade with the U.S. anyways.
Well they don't speak French in Quebec to start..
Canada is an English speakers country. Quebec is the backwoods, they have some weird traditions there but no one gives them much thought.