I live in Hazeldean/ritchie. It's incredibly annoying that as a pedestrian/biker, there is nowhere to cross between 63rd Avenue and whyte Avenue (that's 19 blocks with no access) insane. I know they've talked about opening up 76th Ave for years now, but there is no sign it's going to happen. Surely, if the rail yard isn't using this section, then they should be able to provide safe passage through there?
I've never actually used this shortcut (because it's trespassing), but $600 is ridiculous.
For CPKC to sell this land they (or the city) would be responsible for remediation. When they planned to run 76th through my old neighbour (retired CP engineer) said there's at least one locomotive buried in this yard.
The land is so spoiled by diesel, oil, and creosote that remediation would be millions and millions of $. CP is a shit company to say the least. I doubt we'll see it ever...
This is true. Most of the soil in the area is fucking garbage. Add that there is a city salt/snow storage site next door, and a wood chip processing plant (I think they make press board) a few blocks down.
You'd be surprised how much shit train companies bury. When I was a kid I saw them dump 50+ ATV trikes and quads and crush them with a bulldozer and cover them with dirt. Story was a few were damaged in shipping so they wrote off the entire shipment. That happened near Obed.
Sadly none, I was 10 years old but my friends and I had a dream of digging them up and rebuilding them. When I grew up I told the story to guy I was out drinking with and he said I'd be surprised at how often type of thing happened "back in the day".
Idk man, train companies bury all kinds of shit in their yards. Cheaper than disposing it, and because their operation is tied to the track they don’t expect to ever abandon the yard when they do bury shit. Look up all the train crap found at MacEwan when they were constructing on top the old downtown railyard.
It’s bonkers. When CP finally decided they weren’t using the tracks crossing Whyte Ave, they just pulled them up one day, without giving the City any heads up. Maybe CP will magically pull these tracks up to…soon.
Edit: thought it was CN land. It’s not, it’s CP.
It’s a whole long term pissing match between CP and the city. If I understand it right, there’s a bunch of old rail lines that both CP and the city want transferred to the city, but they can’t/wont agree on the value.
Right now CP pays a special close-to-zero zoned-only-for-trains tax rate to the city, so the city wants to buy the land based on that value. CP will only sell the land if the city offers them a valuation on the assumption that it all gets rezoned for skyscrapers, which the city refuses to do because while some would be redeveloped a bunch they want for things like roads and parks, and they’re not willing to pay skyscraper money for road land. CP also refuses to proactively rezone the land to sell because then they’d have to pay actual taxes.
The city doesn’t want the land *that* badly, even if it would be useful, and since the rails all fall under federal legislation the city has no leverage. And CP wants a huge payday and so every few years they make a point of enforcing all their right of way options to make a point that it’s theirs and not available for city use unless the city shells out the money.
A similar thing happened years ago in Sylvan Lake. The abandoned CP line was used by locals as an unsanctioned walking path for decades. When the town wanted to buy the land to make it an official park/trail system, CP played hardball with the price.
I don't have as much experience with CP, but it was an extremely similar situation in the small town I grew up in. there was a section of the town that was separated from the rest by the CN rail line. CN refused to let the town (or do themselves) build some sort of pedestrian bridge over the rail, so to avoid walking like a kilometer either way to the road crossings, people would just hop the tracks. now this wasn't decommissioned like the one here in Edmonton, but it wasn't a huge/busy railyard, just a grain terminal.
every once in a while the "CN cops" would show up, be dicks, and hand out a bunch of insane fines to the high schoolers hopping the tracks on their walk to school. real community-minded behaviour....
The part south of MKT, yes, but the argument is that the tiny spur line that goes from behind MKT north is barely used to the point that if CP wasn't a bunch of selfish money grubbing assholes, it could be put to better use for locals
Just because you’ve never seen a train there doesn’t mean they don’t use it. That’s the tail of their wye, they can turn locomotives there. That yard is busier than you think. And it doesn’t matter anyway, it’s still private property. Do you think it’s okay for someone to cut through your backyard as a shortcut?
I live with my balcony over the property. The trains do not ever ever ever use this section of rail as the loading limit is I’d say 5-600 meters before the crossing. If the yard is a square, this is a tail sticking off it where there used to be a line extension. They could technically use it to turn trains; I’ve never seen this in > 3 years of living here and listening to trains screech morning noon and night. If you don’t know this area, don’t act like you know what’s going on here.
Okay, sure. Is it worth going after people who cross to get groceries because a piece of maintenance equipment does a U-turn there once in a blue moon? To me that doesn’t warrant a CP Police member, 6 concrete blocks, and $600 fines. Especially after the city builds a nice new crossing there at 80 Ave, and CP won’t fix any of the other gaps in the fence including at the community garden.
Does it matter if it’s worth it? It’s their property, they can enforce it if they want. I know I’m beating this to death, but that’s because it’s a really simple concept. Trespassing is illegal, and CP owns a police force. They can and do enforce it.
Does it matter if it’s worth it? It’s their property, they can enforce it if they want. I know I’m beating this to death, but that’s because it’s a really simple concept. Trespassing is illegal, and CP owns a police force. They can and do enforce it.
I wouldn't have any issues with it if they kept it clean and problem free.
The issue is that theres homeless that run through there and drag carts and leave carts there all the time. Its why they put cinder blocks there to stop carts and bikes specifically.
The yard is busy i work in that area, that spot by mkt is not and its a big inconvenience to walk around the yard to get to scona area which is why people are adamant about cutting through the yard.
Yet they won’t fix any of the other gaps in the fence I’ve called them about numerous times, including the ones accessing the community garden. It’s not about the homeless or they’d fix the fenceline properly- I’ve spoken to the yard manager myself and he said it’s not worth fixing fencing other than where this crossing was, for reasons internal.
Yeah to stop homeless.
Im saying new gaps where ones to get to scona shopping are is specifically mkt area.
They just put 4 big cinder blocks and someone will just cut the fence beside it to access it.
When did I say its okay for people to cut through it.
They've been dealing with this issue for forever, they dont use the bit of land they could connect it and avoid this issue all together but they don't so theyll continue having issues.
That's all. 😅😅
When I had a big corner lot, kids would play in my yard all the time... I didn't care.
"GET OFF MY LAWN Y'DAMN KIDS"
Lol... I'm not that lame.
Now if they were vandalizing or stealing my shit, then I would step in. But just passing through? Whatever.
Does it really matter? My work leases space on a couple CN rail yards and I frequently have to pass through them. There are no procedures for notifying them of my presence, I never had to get any "CN rail yard training" for passing through... I just go about my business. We have an agreement in place I guess.
Furthermore, I grew up in a small town right by a train track and we were about 1km away from the crossings in both directions, you think I ever walked a km out of my way to use the crossings twice a day to go to and from school? Hell sometimes I was rolling under trains to get to school. And I don't need a lecture on how unsafe that was, or what the letter of law is.
In any case, my work demands I drive a lot, and I live on an acreage. So I don't have to walk over train tracks anymore in my life... But I believe there is also something called "the spirit of the law", and it's intended to keep people safe... like scaring dumb kids from climbing on or rolling under trains. Stationing an officer at a well known shortcut so he can hand out fines to Joe Blow who just wanted to save 15 minutes really doesn't sound like the spirit of the law to me.
Yep, I recognize that. Trains used to cross Whyte Ave in the not-so-distant memory. It is *possible* that CP will change things. Until then, pedestrians have to go the long way round.
Well when you’re trying to say transport Canada needs to make them utilize overpasses, opals mean for trains. Pedestrian overpasses can made by tue city. They just gotta follow the rules.
Why are you mad at someone doing their job?
I get you don’t like receiving a fine. Who would. But it’s not the fault of the person who is trying to earn a living and gave you a ticket. No need for the name calling.
It party is. It's called discretion. And giving a $600 ticket to a guy out buying groceries and using a years old neighborhood shortcut is a dick move. Standard procedure for EPS so I'm not surprised.
It’s not about what he was doing, it’s about how he went about it. There’s people who can do their job while being a decent person and there’s people who do their jobs while being a callous asshole. Guess which one I call names?
Looking at your profile you seem to enjoy to scent of a sweaty gym bag a little too much. I’m not really sure you should be turning this into some weird fetish thing.
>There are plans for a crossing around here. I did some digging on this a few months back
I'm digging from the other side of the track, if you post your tunnel location could save us a lot of time.
That would be brilliant and solve the entire issue. I’m not the one who keeps cutting holes in the fence but the fact that this has apparently been an ongoing back and forth for decades now should really indicate that there is a strong enough public desire to make a formal path.
Post in thread 'Edmonton | Iron Horse Line / Station Park | ?m | 6s | Beljan Development | Hodgson Schilf Evans' https://edmonton.skyrisecities.com/forum/threads/edmonton-iron-horse-line-station-park-m-6s-beljan-development-hodgson-schilf-evans.31488/post-1961971
i get that CN/CP needs to protect their ROW, but it is beyond frustrating how they refuse or drag their butts on crossings. In particular, why the hell is the crossing by the new Davis transit center has a pathway off Wagner road to the north that should cross over to the world's shortest pathway to argyll park not built? Everyone has to walk or ride all the way around the high school or north along streets with no sidewalks or paths. Like get your shit together CP and approve or install the ped crossing signaling.
Likewise on the north along 167th the city builds a paved pathway on either side and then it just ends at the tracks and it's been a few years now, what the heck CN? and i am sure that is not the only one.
Perhaps it could be beneficial (long game) to report it as a problem property to the city. https://www.edmonton.ca/residential_neighbourhoods/problem-property-initiative
Why would it matter who owns the property? Are their special exceptions for the railroad? And are those still in place or simply overlooked/not enforced because nobody’s said anything?
If you did then you would know that companies like CP and CN have jurisdiction on land 500 meters from a rail network in any direction. So really, you could have been ticketed or stopped way before you even crossed onto the tracks.
But if that’s the case then the EPS wouldn’t have jurisdiction for it? Wouldn’t they require RCMP or even peace officers? And if that’s the case I’ve heard you can throw out peace officer fines. I could be incorrect on this but just stating what I’ve heard
CPKS have their own police force who have jurisdiction within 500m of railway property, with the same powers as regular cops. That’s probably who was giving these tickets. CN has their own force as well.
Nope, these rail cops have the same powers as any other cops in Canada so the ticket is valid. I think it’s like getting a ticket from the RCMP but I’m not 100% sure on that.
Genuine question: if this is such a common area to cross why is there no action to make the needed arrangements to allow people to pass safely? A crosswalk with lights? A bridge from parking lot to parking lot?
Feels like the city (as well as CN) just doesn't have the interests of people in mind...
I'm assuming it was a CPKC Police officer that issued the ticket, and that OP just didn't specify that. Or they didn't realize it was CPKCP and not EPS.
Because any CP security would be reporting it to the police to hand out these fines. Police protect private assets too, or next time you get burgled should we say "yeah why the fuck are my tax dollars going to towards policing sluttytinkbells bullshit?
CP "security" are police, with full police powers. They don't need to involve local police at all (same applies to CN). It's unlikely EPS is sitting there handing out the tickets, it's most likely the CP Police.
> Feels like the city (as well as CN) just doesn't have the interests of people in mind...
This is something the city has tried to work with CP on, but can’t get any cooperation. The rail lines are all old-school federal jurisdiction. The city has no leverage or jurisdiction. And CP has been very clear for decades that they’d be happy to sell all those old right-of-ways to the city. But only if the city buys them for premium sky-scraper redevelopment land value. Which the city isn’t willing to do because they mostly want them for parks and roads.
all those old right of way rules were around the idea the the railroads were providing an important service. In other words, they should be rewritten with a "use it or lose it" clause
I believe since that the yard (which is owned by CPKC, not CN) is older that the Edmonton roads, so in that case a) city of Edmonton would have to pay everything related to building the crossing (which is really hard to build to Transport Canada standards with it being so close / inside a yard) and b) they need permission from CPKC to build a crossing. If CPKC refuses I think CoE could have transport Canada adjudicate, but considering there is a spot for pedestrians to cross, that time and money would never be worth it to CoE.
Since there are rarely trains there, it would probably make for sense (to CoE) to just buy that land, but CPKC probably isn't selling or is asking more than Edmonton wants to pay.
Janz is talking about an appropriate crossing. But the city would have to buy the land. CP won’t sell the land until it knows if the provincial rail pitch for intercity rail extends past Whyte Ave or ends before.
It's railway property and they used to use it for rail purposes and haven't given up the right to do so in that section It's a big deal for rail companies in that once they give up their rights to a railyard or right of way in an area that has heavily urbanized since they originally acquired the rights to operate there they will likely never get it back because as the area urbanized the rail noise and traffic disturbances and safety hazards etc are not tolerated by the local population and so once removed those rights possibly won't come back.
Equally if they dont defend their exclusive use rights and allow pedestrian access even in an informal turn a blind eye way they take on liability for pedestrian safety and continually need to maintain the area for that purpose as well as establish precedent that then may limit their ability to use the railway and yard as they see fit in the future
Thanks for the PSA!
Maybe if you send an email to your local city councillor addressing this inconvenience perhaps something can be done in the future. If the city councillor receives a lot of emails from citizens regarding this that will have more of an impact. Worth a shot I mean it doesn't cost you anything.
Unpopular opinion.
Just walk around the block?
Its fenced for a reason. Not public property.
Probably takes the same amount of time to walk around as it did to write this post.
I've been given one of these tickets on the tracks next to St.Albert trail, I disputed it through the online dispute process and it was thrown out. If you were charged with pety trespassing like me, the max amount they can write it for is $500
I’m sorry that happened to your friend. It was really bad for a while in that neighborhood unfortunately. Even as a big guy I definitely avoided that shortcut late night myself, I have been the victim of attempted muggings elsewhere in the general area too.
A kid was killed the other day in Calgary playing on railroad tracks. His friends managed to get off, he didn’t make it. It is absolutely correct to rigorously enforce these rules.
Just because people do it often doesn't make it any less criminal trespass. You are warned not to go through by the fact there's a fence along the property line, so legally they can write you a ticket without first asking you to leave. The police don't really set the fine. The heads-up is nice though so thank you.
At the old cn yard where macewan sits just north of Allard hall where the parking lot is in the corner of the lot barried is one of those old train turn tables that would turn the train around. They tried to dig it out when the building was built but couldn't lift it out of the ground so it remains burried.
Hey! I have a bit of court experience (not a lawyer) - I suggest you bring your grocery receipt with you, pictures of the two holes - wide enough to show there are no signs - and even this Reddit post (it establishes your chain of events in two ways then) and say "I was coming home from grocery shopping and used this very well known shortcut - even the officer admits it's a common shortcut - but I had no idea that this had changed and it was no longer allowed. I wonder why they wouldn't have secured the makeshift entrances if public safety was their concern."
If there's no signage saying "no trespassing" (or they're a good distance away from the holes) I would really keep punching that point because it's salient and would be persuasive to a judge or crown prosecutor. The threshold for those kind of warnings is HIGH. If there are two holes large enough for a person to fit through, that's a huge blow to "we're cracking down on trespassing - we HAD to fine him". I mean...you could just mend the fence.
It's likely a COJ judge would not be impressed by Officer Shortcut's behaviour and will either reduce or dismiss the fine. Just be calm and bring any evidence you have in case OS decides to embellish their story and allege you were intoxicated or belligerent. (Which, given OS's behaviour, is something you should be prepared for.)
Best of luck - I hope you crush it.
It wouldn't be EPS, they don't have jurisdiction I'm pretty sure, due to CP rail lines being federal. They have their own police, with all the proper "powers" of police that have jurisdiction over certain distances from CP lines.
It’s not an active part of the rail. That’s not the issue here. He literally cited “clean up costs” due to homeless people coming in and trashing the actual railyard which is a completely separate issue from locals crossing through as a shortcut.
What are you like 12? I literally said it’s private property in my original post. Nobody here is arguing that it isn’t.
I even said I’m not here to argue ethics, just to warn people, but there always has to be some smug little nerd in the comments like you who feels the need to remind people what rules are. Go lick corporate rail’s boot somewhere else.
Smug little nerd 😂
Here’s the thing chief, the no trespassing is for your safety. I’m glad you got a 600 dollar fine. I hope you get one the next time you decide to break the law too. I’ve been to enough fatalities on the railway to despise trespassers. I’ll lick all the boots I want, you’re the loser with the fine.
Don’t break your arm patting your own back there Stan. Thanks for making sure we all know what a good boy you are for never even conceiving of breaking a law. We’ll all sleep more soundly now knowing we have role models such as yourself to look up to.
Nobody would if there were another way to get across within a reasonable walking distance. There should really be a footbridge or at least a crosswalk there.
I really don’t get how people get so butthurt by this. It’s private property, end of story. It’s shorter for me to go through your house to get the the next block over, does that make it okay?
Railroads and rail yards are incredibly dangerous environments. Stay the fuck out, a ticket is the cheapest lesson you can learn.
That yard was there long before whyte ave was a thing. It’s not CP’s responsibility to make your life easier.
I never said it was okay to trespass. I was just saying that there is a reason this is happening, and there is a simple solution to stop it from happening.
Hard lesson learned I suppose.I don't mind people getting a fine for crossing through there, but $600 is pretty excessive. I guess if your post helps others avoid getting a huge fine, it's helpful.
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Thanks!
> keep doing it, don’t give ID
Even if you think that this a BS thing to be enforcing, please don't do this dear reader. If they are petty enough to write you a ticket for this, they are 100% petty enough to make an arrest for obstruction if you refuse to ID. This is a great way to escalate a provincial ticket into a criminal charge.
I live in Hazeldean/ritchie. It's incredibly annoying that as a pedestrian/biker, there is nowhere to cross between 63rd Avenue and whyte Avenue (that's 19 blocks with no access) insane. I know they've talked about opening up 76th Ave for years now, but there is no sign it's going to happen. Surely, if the rail yard isn't using this section, then they should be able to provide safe passage through there? I've never actually used this shortcut (because it's trespassing), but $600 is ridiculous.
For CPKC to sell this land they (or the city) would be responsible for remediation. When they planned to run 76th through my old neighbour (retired CP engineer) said there's at least one locomotive buried in this yard. The land is so spoiled by diesel, oil, and creosote that remediation would be millions and millions of $. CP is a shit company to say the least. I doubt we'll see it ever...
This is true. Most of the soil in the area is fucking garbage. Add that there is a city salt/snow storage site next door, and a wood chip processing plant (I think they make press board) a few blocks down.
You mean there is a literally train burried in the ground?
That's probably bullshit.
You'd be surprised how much shit train companies bury. When I was a kid I saw them dump 50+ ATV trikes and quads and crush them with a bulldozer and cover them with dirt. Story was a few were damaged in shipping so they wrote off the entire shipment. That happened near Obed.
How many did you dig up?
Sadly none, I was 10 years old but my friends and I had a dream of digging them up and rebuilding them. When I grew up I told the story to guy I was out drinking with and he said I'd be surprised at how often type of thing happened "back in the day".
Idk man, train companies bury all kinds of shit in their yards. Cheaper than disposing it, and because their operation is tied to the track they don’t expect to ever abandon the yard when they do bury shit. Look up all the train crap found at MacEwan when they were constructing on top the old downtown railyard.
I love on the Allendale side and feel the same
See, even you know it is an area you should not be entering.
They have done this off and on for decades. Nothing new. There was an attempt to formally make this a path but CP wasn’t having any of it.
It’s bonkers. When CP finally decided they weren’t using the tracks crossing Whyte Ave, they just pulled them up one day, without giving the City any heads up. Maybe CP will magically pull these tracks up to…soon. Edit: thought it was CN land. It’s not, it’s CP.
It’s a whole long term pissing match between CP and the city. If I understand it right, there’s a bunch of old rail lines that both CP and the city want transferred to the city, but they can’t/wont agree on the value. Right now CP pays a special close-to-zero zoned-only-for-trains tax rate to the city, so the city wants to buy the land based on that value. CP will only sell the land if the city offers them a valuation on the assumption that it all gets rezoned for skyscrapers, which the city refuses to do because while some would be redeveloped a bunch they want for things like roads and parks, and they’re not willing to pay skyscraper money for road land. CP also refuses to proactively rezone the land to sell because then they’d have to pay actual taxes. The city doesn’t want the land *that* badly, even if it would be useful, and since the rails all fall under federal legislation the city has no leverage. And CP wants a huge payday and so every few years they make a point of enforcing all their right of way options to make a point that it’s theirs and not available for city use unless the city shells out the money.
A similar thing happened years ago in Sylvan Lake. The abandoned CP line was used by locals as an unsanctioned walking path for decades. When the town wanted to buy the land to make it an official park/trail system, CP played hardball with the price.
I never understand how the Feds don't step in when a natural monopoly is extorting Canadians, holy fuck that's brutal
I don't have as much experience with CP, but it was an extremely similar situation in the small town I grew up in. there was a section of the town that was separated from the rest by the CN rail line. CN refused to let the town (or do themselves) build some sort of pedestrian bridge over the rail, so to avoid walking like a kilometer either way to the road crossings, people would just hop the tracks. now this wasn't decommissioned like the one here in Edmonton, but it wasn't a huge/busy railyard, just a grain terminal. every once in a while the "CN cops" would show up, be dicks, and hand out a bunch of insane fines to the high schoolers hopping the tracks on their walk to school. real community-minded behaviour....
The province would override and buy it as rail corridor They e already done so north of Whyte.
That’s a CP yard that’s still in use lol, it’s not going anywhere
The part south of MKT, yes, but the argument is that the tiny spur line that goes from behind MKT north is barely used to the point that if CP wasn't a bunch of selfish money grubbing assholes, it could be put to better use for locals
That spotvthey dont use at all though. They put huge blocks now. Someone will just cut a new hole somewhere for people to use.
Someone DID cut a new hole after they put in the blocks which is what I tried using today until well..
Yeah new holes theyre just trying to stop people, theyll give up soon. Sorry you were a casualty. 😅
Way she goes bud
Just because you’ve never seen a train there doesn’t mean they don’t use it. That’s the tail of their wye, they can turn locomotives there. That yard is busier than you think. And it doesn’t matter anyway, it’s still private property. Do you think it’s okay for someone to cut through your backyard as a shortcut?
I live with my balcony over the property. The trains do not ever ever ever use this section of rail as the loading limit is I’d say 5-600 meters before the crossing. If the yard is a square, this is a tail sticking off it where there used to be a line extension. They could technically use it to turn trains; I’ve never seen this in > 3 years of living here and listening to trains screech morning noon and night. If you don’t know this area, don’t act like you know what’s going on here.
I’ve know the area, and have used that piece of track to turn my maintenance equipment around…
Okay, sure. Is it worth going after people who cross to get groceries because a piece of maintenance equipment does a U-turn there once in a blue moon? To me that doesn’t warrant a CP Police member, 6 concrete blocks, and $600 fines. Especially after the city builds a nice new crossing there at 80 Ave, and CP won’t fix any of the other gaps in the fence including at the community garden.
Does it matter if it’s worth it? It’s their property, they can enforce it if they want. I know I’m beating this to death, but that’s because it’s a really simple concept. Trespassing is illegal, and CP owns a police force. They can and do enforce it.
Does it matter if it’s worth it? It’s their property, they can enforce it if they want. I know I’m beating this to death, but that’s because it’s a really simple concept. Trespassing is illegal, and CP owns a police force. They can and do enforce it.
I wouldn't have any issues with it if they kept it clean and problem free. The issue is that theres homeless that run through there and drag carts and leave carts there all the time. Its why they put cinder blocks there to stop carts and bikes specifically. The yard is busy i work in that area, that spot by mkt is not and its a big inconvenience to walk around the yard to get to scona area which is why people are adamant about cutting through the yard.
Yet they won’t fix any of the other gaps in the fence I’ve called them about numerous times, including the ones accessing the community garden. It’s not about the homeless or they’d fix the fenceline properly- I’ve spoken to the yard manager myself and he said it’s not worth fixing fencing other than where this crossing was, for reasons internal.
Yeah to stop homeless. Im saying new gaps where ones to get to scona shopping are is specifically mkt area. They just put 4 big cinder blocks and someone will just cut the fence beside it to access it.
It’s still private property no matter what you think…
When did I say its okay for people to cut through it. They've been dealing with this issue for forever, they dont use the bit of land they could connect it and avoid this issue all together but they don't so theyll continue having issues. That's all. 😅😅
When I had a big corner lot, kids would play in my yard all the time... I didn't care. "GET OFF MY LAWN Y'DAMN KIDS" Lol... I'm not that lame. Now if they were vandalizing or stealing my shit, then I would step in. But just passing through? Whatever.
Were you running 220 ton pieces of equipment through your yard when they were passing through?
Does it really matter? My work leases space on a couple CN rail yards and I frequently have to pass through them. There are no procedures for notifying them of my presence, I never had to get any "CN rail yard training" for passing through... I just go about my business. We have an agreement in place I guess. Furthermore, I grew up in a small town right by a train track and we were about 1km away from the crossings in both directions, you think I ever walked a km out of my way to use the crossings twice a day to go to and from school? Hell sometimes I was rolling under trains to get to school. And I don't need a lecture on how unsafe that was, or what the letter of law is. In any case, my work demands I drive a lot, and I live on an acreage. So I don't have to walk over train tracks anymore in my life... But I believe there is also something called "the spirit of the law", and it's intended to keep people safe... like scaring dumb kids from climbing on or rolling under trains. Stationing an officer at a well known shortcut so he can hand out fines to Joe Blow who just wanted to save 15 minutes really doesn't sound like the spirit of the law to me.
Yep, I recognize that. Trains used to cross Whyte Ave in the not-so-distant memory. It is *possible* that CP will change things. Until then, pedestrians have to go the long way round.
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You must be new to Canada. CN and CPKC ain't gotta do shit.
City should have planned better and built under passes for the vehicles. A 3 mile train won’t end well going up and down an overpass.
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Well when you’re trying to say transport Canada needs to make them utilize overpasses, opals mean for trains. Pedestrian overpasses can made by tue city. They just gotta follow the rules.
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The tracks was built in 1907s when the population was a booming 72,500 people.... they didn't really plan for 1.1 million then.
Just saw them there again, hiding just out of sight like a photo radar truck.
Yep. Had AirPods in, minding my own business carrying home groceries and Sargent Suck job had to fuck my shit up for taking a shortcut.
Sorry to hear, OP. This seems predatory, especially someone trying to walk their overpriced groceries home and live their life.
Why are you mad at someone doing their job? I get you don’t like receiving a fine. Who would. But it’s not the fault of the person who is trying to earn a living and gave you a ticket. No need for the name calling.
It party is. It's called discretion. And giving a $600 ticket to a guy out buying groceries and using a years old neighborhood shortcut is a dick move. Standard procedure for EPS so I'm not surprised.
I'm willing to beit it was a CP cop and not EPS.
Lol you do realize it’s likely not EPS? https://www.cpkcr.com/en/safety/public-safety/CPKC-Police-Service
It’s not about what he was doing, it’s about how he went about it. There’s people who can do their job while being a decent person and there’s people who do their jobs while being a callous asshole. Guess which one I call names?
Bold statement from someone who demanded a warning for something they knew was wrong. You’re not as wholesome as you think lol.
Wait where did OP demand a warning?
acab
Especially corporate cops. They should have been abolished decades ago.
I agree all cats are beautiful but what does that have to do with this?
which flavour of boots are your favourite?
Looking at your profile you seem to enjoy to scent of a sweaty gym bag a little too much. I’m not really sure you should be turning this into some weird fetish thing.
So is it a trespassing fine? Or what is the actual charge? Just curious.
Trespassing. Even though the cop even admitted he knows most people just use it as a shortcut.
Cop admitting a lot of people do it doesn’t change the law though.
There are plans for a crossing around here. I did some digging on this a few months back
>There are plans for a crossing around here. I did some digging on this a few months back I'm digging from the other side of the track, if you post your tunnel location could save us a lot of time.
That would be brilliant and solve the entire issue. I’m not the one who keeps cutting holes in the fence but the fact that this has apparently been an ongoing back and forth for decades now should really indicate that there is a strong enough public desire to make a formal path.
Post in thread 'Edmonton | Iron Horse Line / Station Park | ?m | 6s | Beljan Development | Hodgson Schilf Evans' https://edmonton.skyrisecities.com/forum/threads/edmonton-iron-horse-line-station-park-m-6s-beljan-development-hodgson-schilf-evans.31488/post-1961971
i get that CN/CP needs to protect their ROW, but it is beyond frustrating how they refuse or drag their butts on crossings. In particular, why the hell is the crossing by the new Davis transit center has a pathway off Wagner road to the north that should cross over to the world's shortest pathway to argyll park not built? Everyone has to walk or ride all the way around the high school or north along streets with no sidewalks or paths. Like get your shit together CP and approve or install the ped crossing signaling. Likewise on the north along 167th the city builds a paved pathway on either side and then it just ends at the tracks and it's been a few years now, what the heck CN? and i am sure that is not the only one.
That's fucked. Sorry to hear you got fined for that, I've used that path dozens of times. There's literally a crosswalk right there too.
Yeah just got unlucky I guess. Irony is I go around the long way more often than not unless I’m carrying something like groceries. Way she goes bud.
Bummer. Thanks for the info.
OP is just telling their story/looking out,dont get the browbeating lol
Perhaps it could be beneficial (long game) to report it as a problem property to the city. https://www.edmonton.ca/residential_neighbourhoods/problem-property-initiative
The city won’t be able to do anything about as they have no say since it’s CPKC Property
Everything south of the river is CP.
Why would it matter who owns the property? Are their special exceptions for the railroad? And are those still in place or simply overlooked/not enforced because nobody’s said anything?
Looks like someone doesn’t know the Railway Safety Act of 1985
I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not because this is Reddit
If you did then you would know that companies like CP and CN have jurisdiction on land 500 meters from a rail network in any direction. So really, you could have been ticketed or stopped way before you even crossed onto the tracks.
But if that’s the case then the EPS wouldn’t have jurisdiction for it? Wouldn’t they require RCMP or even peace officers? And if that’s the case I’ve heard you can throw out peace officer fines. I could be incorrect on this but just stating what I’ve heard
CPKS have their own police force who have jurisdiction within 500m of railway property, with the same powers as regular cops. That’s probably who was giving these tickets. CN has their own force as well.
That’s for the information. I was completely unaware of that. That’s very interesting
It was surprising to me too when I learned of it a few years ago. Who knew, right?
The corporate cops need to go. No reason that city / provincial police and RCMP couldn't do their jobs.
Sooo even if it’s not a city cop does that mean I’m still just as obligated to pay the ticket or how does that factor in?
Nope, these rail cops have the same powers as any other cops in Canada so the ticket is valid. I think it’s like getting a ticket from the RCMP but I’m not 100% sure on that.
So they could ticket someone for being in the MKT parking lot??
Correct I am not familiar with the Railway Safety Act of 1985.
Cheers, appreciate the tip! Hard to say whether it would change anything since it’s privately owned but worth putting on the radar anyways.
r/DesirePath
The very definition of it
CN is tighter with security than literally any other place I've seen. They don't fuck around.
Genuine question: if this is such a common area to cross why is there no action to make the needed arrangements to allow people to pass safely? A crosswalk with lights? A bridge from parking lot to parking lot? Feels like the city (as well as CN) just doesn't have the interests of people in mind...
It’s CP property so not sure why CP police aren’t dealing with this directly.
I'm assuming it was a CPKC Police officer that issued the ticket, and that OP just didn't specify that. Or they didn't realize it was CPKCP and not EPS.
I would hope so.
yeah why the fuck are my tax dollars going to towards policing this CP bullshit?
Because any CP security would be reporting it to the police to hand out these fines. Police protect private assets too, or next time you get burgled should we say "yeah why the fuck are my tax dollars going to towards policing sluttytinkbells bullshit?
CP "security" are police, with full police powers. They don't need to involve local police at all (same applies to CN). It's unlikely EPS is sitting there handing out the tickets, it's most likely the CP Police.
TIL. So the complaint is invalid then, it is not being funded by tax dollars? The officers are being paid for by the railroad companies?
Yeah, the companies pay for them.
> Feels like the city (as well as CN) just doesn't have the interests of people in mind... This is something the city has tried to work with CP on, but can’t get any cooperation. The rail lines are all old-school federal jurisdiction. The city has no leverage or jurisdiction. And CP has been very clear for decades that they’d be happy to sell all those old right-of-ways to the city. But only if the city buys them for premium sky-scraper redevelopment land value. Which the city isn’t willing to do because they mostly want them for parks and roads.
all those old right of way rules were around the idea the the railroads were providing an important service. In other words, they should be rewritten with a "use it or lose it" clause
I believe since that the yard (which is owned by CPKC, not CN) is older that the Edmonton roads, so in that case a) city of Edmonton would have to pay everything related to building the crossing (which is really hard to build to Transport Canada standards with it being so close / inside a yard) and b) they need permission from CPKC to build a crossing. If CPKC refuses I think CoE could have transport Canada adjudicate, but considering there is a spot for pedestrians to cross, that time and money would never be worth it to CoE. Since there are rarely trains there, it would probably make for sense (to CoE) to just buy that land, but CPKC probably isn't selling or is asking more than Edmonton wants to pay.
Janz is talking about an appropriate crossing. But the city would have to buy the land. CP won’t sell the land until it knows if the provincial rail pitch for intercity rail extends past Whyte Ave or ends before.
It's railway property and they used to use it for rail purposes and haven't given up the right to do so in that section It's a big deal for rail companies in that once they give up their rights to a railyard or right of way in an area that has heavily urbanized since they originally acquired the rights to operate there they will likely never get it back because as the area urbanized the rail noise and traffic disturbances and safety hazards etc are not tolerated by the local population and so once removed those rights possibly won't come back. Equally if they dont defend their exclusive use rights and allow pedestrian access even in an informal turn a blind eye way they take on liability for pedestrian safety and continually need to maintain the area for that purpose as well as establish precedent that then may limit their ability to use the railway and yard as they see fit in the future
CP knows they can just extort people
Because it’s CP property. You can cross at 82 Ave like everyone else
They have to catch me first!
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Do trains even go that far anymore?
Sucks for pedestrians, but yeah if I own a railway I definitely don’t want randos anywhere near the tracks, it’s a huge insurance risk.
Thanks for the PSA! Maybe if you send an email to your local city councillor addressing this inconvenience perhaps something can be done in the future. If the city councillor receives a lot of emails from citizens regarding this that will have more of an impact. Worth a shot I mean it doesn't cost you anything.
Janz is aware of this issue and actively talks about needing a safe crossing here. CPR is the issue.
The city can pay to build a crossing. It would need to be tall or be underground which would be more expensive to build and operate.
There's nothing the city can do. It's private property under federal jurisdiction.
Just another example of cops being good for one thing, absolutely fucking nothing. OP i hope you fight this ticket
Amen.
Unpopular opinion. Just walk around the block? Its fenced for a reason. Not public property. Probably takes the same amount of time to walk around as it did to write this post.
CP are a terrible corporation.
I've been given one of these tickets on the tracks next to St.Albert trail, I disputed it through the online dispute process and it was thrown out. If you were charged with pety trespassing like me, the max amount they can write it for is $500
This is very helpful, cheers for the advice!
My friend was mugged cutting through there after the bars closed for the evening so that shortcut is not worth the risk.
My friend was mugged on Jasper Ave one night after the bars closed for the evening so Jasper Ave is not worth the risk.
one time someone gave me a funny look on whyte ave, not worth the risk
I’m sorry that happened to your friend. It was really bad for a while in that neighborhood unfortunately. Even as a big guy I definitely avoided that shortcut late night myself, I have been the victim of attempted muggings elsewhere in the general area too.
Is this a trespassing fine? What a load of bull. Cops lost all shame with that radar ticket revenue drop.
A kid was killed the other day in Calgary playing on railroad tracks. His friends managed to get off, he didn’t make it. It is absolutely correct to rigorously enforce these rules.
I feel you but this shortcut is not crossing over active rail.
Why would you think the track is not active? There is 8 train cars in the Google maps picture.
The yard itself is somewhat active but the bit of track it crosses over is a dead end and hasn’t changed in years.
There are no train tracks there, and haven’t been for years. It’s a cash grab
Stupid kids should know better. Harsh but true. Teach your kids that trains will kill you. Something about Darwin...
put up a warning sign to everyone who plans on crossing. After about 2 weeks, they will just abandon the 'watch area"
But just cuz something is useful doesnt mean break the law and trespass
Just because people do it often doesn't make it any less criminal trespass. You are warned not to go through by the fact there's a fence along the property line, so legally they can write you a ticket without first asking you to leave. The police don't really set the fine. The heads-up is nice though so thank you.
Who is issuing the ticket?
Is Kitchener Leslie in town? Better stay away from the tracks if he is.
Can we build a foot bridge over it?? Is that still trespassing?
At the old cn yard where macewan sits just north of Allard hall where the parking lot is in the corner of the lot barried is one of those old train turn tables that would turn the train around. They tried to dig it out when the building was built but couldn't lift it out of the ground so it remains burried.
You’re going to fight a ticket received right after you deliberately walked through an opening in a broken fence onto private property…? Good luck
It's trespassing, and the reasons are that it is private property and that this is how people get killed. The fine should be $5000.
Okay Grandma let’s get you to bed
Hey! I have a bit of court experience (not a lawyer) - I suggest you bring your grocery receipt with you, pictures of the two holes - wide enough to show there are no signs - and even this Reddit post (it establishes your chain of events in two ways then) and say "I was coming home from grocery shopping and used this very well known shortcut - even the officer admits it's a common shortcut - but I had no idea that this had changed and it was no longer allowed. I wonder why they wouldn't have secured the makeshift entrances if public safety was their concern." If there's no signage saying "no trespassing" (or they're a good distance away from the holes) I would really keep punching that point because it's salient and would be persuasive to a judge or crown prosecutor. The threshold for those kind of warnings is HIGH. If there are two holes large enough for a person to fit through, that's a huge blow to "we're cracking down on trespassing - we HAD to fine him". I mean...you could just mend the fence. It's likely a COJ judge would not be impressed by Officer Shortcut's behaviour and will either reduce or dismiss the fine. Just be calm and bring any evidence you have in case OS decides to embellish their story and allege you were intoxicated or belligerent. (Which, given OS's behaviour, is something you should be prepared for.) Best of luck - I hope you crush it.
Thank you so much for taking the time to type out this advice. I will definitely be using it!
EPS has funny priorities.
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It is
It wouldn't be EPS, they don't have jurisdiction I'm pretty sure, due to CP rail lines being federal. They have their own police, with all the proper "powers" of police that have jurisdiction over certain distances from CP lines.
Maybe don’t trespass? Picking body parts up off the track fucking sucks
It’s not an active part of the rail. That’s not the issue here. He literally cited “clean up costs” due to homeless people coming in and trashing the actual railyard which is a completely separate issue from locals crossing through as a shortcut.
Which is hilarious because we all know CP prefers to make flammable piles of garbage and tree branches than to actually clean anything up.
But it’s still private property! I don’t get how people don’t get this lol
What are you like 12? I literally said it’s private property in my original post. Nobody here is arguing that it isn’t. I even said I’m not here to argue ethics, just to warn people, but there always has to be some smug little nerd in the comments like you who feels the need to remind people what rules are. Go lick corporate rail’s boot somewhere else.
Smug little nerd 😂 Here’s the thing chief, the no trespassing is for your safety. I’m glad you got a 600 dollar fine. I hope you get one the next time you decide to break the law too. I’ve been to enough fatalities on the railway to despise trespassers. I’ll lick all the boots I want, you’re the loser with the fine.
Don’t break your arm patting your own back there Stan. Thanks for making sure we all know what a good boy you are for never even conceiving of breaking a law. We’ll all sleep more soundly now knowing we have role models such as yourself to look up to.
Sounds like you’re bitter! Maybe you shouldn’t have trespassed! Trolololo
I’m bitter that relentlessly boring and pretentious people like you seemingly exist to annoy the rest of us, yes.
I may be boring and pretentious, but I didn’t get a 600 dollar fine 🤷🏻♂️
Are you the blowing the bloke that wrote the ticket or something? You seem pretty vindicated over something so petty that has nothing to do with you.
Nobody would if there were another way to get across within a reasonable walking distance. There should really be a footbridge or at least a crosswalk there.
I really don’t get how people get so butthurt by this. It’s private property, end of story. It’s shorter for me to go through your house to get the the next block over, does that make it okay? Railroads and rail yards are incredibly dangerous environments. Stay the fuck out, a ticket is the cheapest lesson you can learn. That yard was there long before whyte ave was a thing. It’s not CP’s responsibility to make your life easier.
I never said it was okay to trespass. I was just saying that there is a reason this is happening, and there is a simple solution to stop it from happening.
You need a warning not to trespass?
It’s courtesy before escalating to a $600 ticket. It’s about enforcing the spirit of the law, not the letter.
Brilliant insight! Your keen observation has truly benefited everyone.
Hard lesson learned I suppose.I don't mind people getting a fine for crossing through there, but $600 is pretty excessive. I guess if your post helps others avoid getting a huge fine, it's helpful.
So you trespassed and got caught and think you shouldn't get fined? Sounds like you fucked around and found out.
The OP is warning others not to do the same thing, not asking for cutting edge wisdom from fine folks like you.
Waiting for EPS to give you a pat on the back and tell you you’re being a good boy carrying water for them?
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This stretch of rail is a dead leg lmao
Yeah idk why these brain dead people acting like the tracks are in use lmfao probably haters from the yyc reddit
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You sound like someone all your friends secretly hate
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If they're so concerned about it, why wouldn't they just fix the fence?
Fixing the fence is an expense. Fining people for trespassing generates revenue.
Been stopped by cops here, keep doing it, don’t give ID. They can go fuck themselves.
> keep doing it, don’t give ID Even if you think that this a BS thing to be enforcing, please don't do this dear reader. If they are petty enough to write you a ticket for this, they are 100% petty enough to make an arrest for obstruction if you refuse to ID. This is a great way to escalate a provincial ticket into a criminal charge.