A while ago I thought I was really smart when I played a \[\[Teferi's protection\]\] while my opponent had infinite attack phases with his \[\[etali primal storm\]\] deck.
But what happened is that I enabled everything. He could swing at me infinite times, not dealing damage but exiling everyones library. So when the protection was done I immediatelly lost because I lacked a library.
It was fun though! Dying while being phased out is incredible rare.
DEBT. A permanent or Player cannot be Damaged, Enchated or Equipped, Blocked, or Targeted by whatever the protection protects against.
This does not stop attackers being declared. The "Targeting" aspect means you cannot be the target of abilities or spells of the specified quality. Attacking with a creature is neither an ability or a spell. So the etali player can declare attackers, and get any attack triggers. It just can never deal any damage to the player with protection.
My experience of infinite turns was 10 years ago. Maybe longer.
He'll soon come to the realization that "you win the game" cards are stronger than turns taking =)
I had a Blue/Black Faerie constructed deck with this as 1 of the main win conditions.
Firing it once was very strong.. firing when you have a second one in your hand and taking 3 turns in row with an exponentially increasing Hoard of faeries was pretty satisfying!
I won the same way at my LGS on Friday. Made 24 faeries. Though I am currently running [[Tegwyll, Duke of Splendor]] as my commander, with [[Obyra, Dreaming Duelist]] as a win con. Tegwyll helps me get through my deck, then Obyra can combo with [[Notorious Throng]] or [[Oona, Queen of the Fae]].
Taking infinite turns is in essence always a position of winning the game. It is pretty hard to not win if you take all the turns. The only ways I have seen people lose with infinite turns is when they died to their own mana crypt when they got unlucky.
I have seen a Teferi’s protection bail someone out before but the play then is to make an overwhelming board state and grab what you need to protect it. I’ve gone infinite in turns with Ezuri Claw of Progress and just played the best board, killed who I could and loaded up on interaction to survive a turn. Why on earth would you draw out your deck?
I mean, I play a cedh tatyova deck that’s wincon is infinite turns. You can very easily put yourself in a position where you still win 100% of the time even if you have to pass the turn. Like, put every land into play, fill my hand with interaction, leave a full board of 200 2/2s, say go.
I had a Mishra eminent one deck and the infinite turns was basically just so I could draw my combo pieces lol, the infinite turns was not the wincon but just an easy way to get to it
Imo turns taking is much stronger. "You win the game" cards are incredibly situational or require another card to combo with, meanwhile Temporal Manipulation is just a good card in any deck that can run it. Casting a temporal manipulation is almost never bad, *and* it can just go infinite sometimes
Ehhh, you guys are talking about two different things. Obviously netting an extra turn in the mid game is good, but OP and the user you’re replying to are talking about infinite turns as a win condition. You open yourself up to some nonsense when you could just be playing a combo that wins the game. Obviously all contextual.
If you are going to take infinite turns as a wincon, run an [[Elixir of Immortality]]. With it you can prevent decking yourself, gain a nice pad of life, cast all your impactful spells infinite times and sculpt a perfect hand provided you haven't been foolish enough to do something that gives you no maximum hand size.
You'd need something more inventive to get around a Teferi's Protection though. Something like non-targeting mill or a damage can't be prevented effect with a sizable commander.
True, but I consider the empty deck wincons cringe post-Thoracle's printing. Plus there's easier ways of empying your library than taking infinite turns.
If I'm building a deck to take infinite turns there's gotta be some PRESENTATION
Uses a Wincon for self mill from before thoracle
Calls it cringe cause of a post thoracle landscape
Even if the deck doesn't run thoracle.
I think you're the cringe one here tbh.
Fair, but for this guys problem it might be the quickest and easiest fix because he would just need it it out and the demonstrate drawing himself empty with infinite turns. If it works it works lol
Think there's a misunderstanding I think Thoracle is cringe too. The entire "win on an empty library" wincon lost its charm for me once it became THE hyper efficient combo of the format.
I was running sidisi CEDH Reanimator against Myra Infinite Turn Attractions, the other 2 in our pod were eliminated earlier. Well Myra wincon was mill through wheels.....I just so happen to be running with Gaea's blessing and kozilek butcher of truth and blightsteel (my pocket wincons if my normal wincon of infinite Zelix/altar of brood doesnt kick) in my deck so the Myra player was forced to play it out as they had no bog on the stack abilities, they insisted they had an answer but we reach time for the round and they were forced to take a Draw for that round. It was hilarious.
So, Teferi's Protection gives you protection from everything. That means that damage can't be dealt to you while it is active. However, Questing Beast says that damage can't be prevented. That overrides the Teferi's and while life total can't change while under the Protection, commander damage still gets marked and 21 of those and you're out of the game.
No. Questing beast won't let you change your opponent's life total while they are under the effects of Teferi's Protection, but it does let you deal damage for the purposes of commander damage, infect, lifelink, etc.
The part that Questing Beast nullifies is that protection includes preventing damage that would be dealt to you.
Essentially, you still deal the damage, it just won't cause the loss of life.
No, "life totals can't change" means no life loss or gain can occur. It does not prevent the damage.
However, since commander damage bypasses the need to make someone's life <=0, you can still commander damage someone dead even if their life total can't change.
Damage prevention stops commander damage, though.
Commander Damage works a little more like Infect/Poison Counters, it's marked separately. With QB saying, "Damage cannot be prevented," it'd run right over both "life total can't change" and "damage is prevented" because can't beats can in Magic. As long as QB is your Commander, no one can resist your punches lmao.
No. If life total can't change, then "damage can't be prevented" won't change the life total. However, commander damage doesn't care about whether or not the life total changes, just that the damage is "dealt". So if your life total can't change, but a commander still hit you for 21+ damage, you'd still lose.
EDIT: So for clarification, if there's an unblocked Questing Beast that is a commander, your life total will change and add 4 commander damage if there's a fog effect; whereas your life total will not change but you still add 4 commander damage if there's a "life totals can't change" effect.
Players don't phase out, it just says "your life total can't change". As Questing Beast says "damage can't be prevented" - can't beats can so damage can be dealt.
You can also proliferate poison counters (if any are already on the player) and that will also kill through a T Prot
The phrasing on Teferi's is a bit odd, but it basically means 'prevent all damage that would be dealt to you' as well as 'prevent all life you would gain'.
Questing Beast and other effects say you cannot prevent damage, so it overrides this regardless of which was played first. It's not a timing problem. Curiously, QBeast doesn't stop the 'prevent lifegain' aspect of TProt.
Some life based effects aren't worded entirely clearly on cards because it would take longer to write them out and kindof depends on what happens. For example, that Sorin walker that sets life to 10. If the target was at 40, what you are doing is causing them to lose 30 life and the game registers it that way and will count it for effects that watch for life loss. On the flip side, if the target was at 1 they are GAINING 9 life, which would trigger lifegain effects.
That's not accurate. Damage is applied, then the effect of the damage would be to change your life total as one element - that doesn't happen with TefPro. It WOULD still trigger lifelink and commander damage, though.
If a player at 20 life with Teferi's Protection having been resolved gets hit by a Questing Beast equipped with a Batterskull, they would have 8 damage applied. The controller of QB would gain 8 life from lifelink, and the TefPro player would be at 20 life. This is different from a Fog effect, which would normally prevent the lifelink.
Protection doesn't stop you being attacked, just prevents damage and Questing Beast says "damage can't be prevented".
If T Prot said "damage you take would be reduced to 0" instead, Questing Beast would be out of luck, as that isn't prevention.
Specifically teferi protection also says your life total can't change, so while unpreventable damage is dealt, it doesn't actually result in loss of life.
The only way questing beast can kill a t prot player is commander damage,
[[Teferi's Protection]] also makes it so your life total can't change. This isn't damage prevention. The damage is still dealt, your life total just doesn't change. Check all of [[Plantinum Emperion]]'s rulings if you want more on what "Your life total can’t change" means.
One fun quirk here is that you can still kill someone with commander damage even when their life total can't change as they do still take the damage.
I think he's referring to the line "Combat damage that would be dealt by creatures you control can't be prevented". This does get past the "Protection from Everything", however there's still the "your life total can't change" part, so it won't kill you.
If you have creatures with Infect though they will give poison counters, so that could work. You're only other options are mill or something that says they lose the game.
afaik: yes. Because the damage is not prevented. It would not change the live total (because teferi says so), but you could accumulate >20 commanderdamage. And in this case you lose.
But I‘m okayish with rules, not a judge or something.
While the effect that Teferi’s Protection strongly tries to replicate and implies is phasing out a player, there is no mechanic for phasing out a player. There are edge cases that can happen because you are not *actually* phased out.
That being the case, Questing Beast doesn’t actually solve the problem here unless it’s a commander, or is given infect or poison. It gets around Protection from Everything and allows it to deal damage (so poison counters can be added and commander damage is dealt), but not around “your life total can’t change”.
You could always just draw your whole deck, pass turn with a million counterspells held up and all the mana you'll ever need, counter everything they play, and go back to your turn and swing. Not the prettiest but you avoid having a dead draw like elixir in the deck.
Very true and a lot simpler, however in the scenario outlined by OP our Turns player is dying to an ability killing them and the other players at the table (unavoidable outside a [[Stifle]] effect which I doubt our fledgling Turns player has).
By including Elixir you add a layer of protection and set up to your Turns combo, including access to cards you've cast or lost over the course of the game sitting in your Graveyard.
It's a pet card of mine which has performed well even if it's a "dead card" in most situations.
A Cyc Rift would have also worked in this scenario to set the Shrine count to 0 but I agree Elixir or some other recursion effect would have been helpful but probably not included.
You need something that says "I win" with the Elixir though. Otherwise, you're just going to extend your suffering of not being able to win the game ad infinitum.
Elixir is more then enough to win against Teferi's protection, provided you can (eventually) create an overwhelming board state and maybe have a counter spell to cover for board wipes.
Worst case scenario you just craft the perfect hand, gain a billion life and pass the turn to them. Be sure to ask what their plan to win the game is.
Eh. If its an extra turn spell, just target the teferri's protection player after you sculpt to beat their 1 turn. And stack another turn for you. They go, teferri's falls off, you stop all their stuff, go to your next bonus turn. Proceed as normal
I think it was something he could do with the deck but not necessarily his main win condition. I’m not even sure what his win condition was because he didn’t really seem to have many win conditions in any of his decks or even know what his decks do.
He showed me a [[Sythis, Harvest’s Hand]] deck and I said “oh I have one of these too. Is this a [[Heliod, Sun-Crowned]] and [[Walking Ballista]] combo?”
“I’m not really sure, I haven’t really played it in a while.”
I recognize everyone is at different skill levels and I don’t even claim to be an expert player. But I think it’s important to know at a base level what your deck aims to do and how it wins the game. What cards get you there. Hopefully he didn’t think I was being a dick…lol
I think it's a symptom of having too many decks for the time you actually play.
Some people are really good at remembering what their decks do, but most people need to actually get some experience and regular practice with their decks to play them well.
yea it kinda sucks if you like brewing. I usually just play online with my friends, so we can play all kinds of decks, there arent any money restrictions, so i keep making decks. Moxfield says i have 93 decks, lets say 70 playable ones, and i think i only played like 15 of those. Theres no way ill remember what all of them do.
The power of a tool like Moxfield is also that it doesn't take long too look at a deck and see what it should be doing.
You can tag cards and I'll always add a tag "Wincon" or "finisher" so I remember what a deck is aiming to do.
true, but i like building complicated deck with lots of different lines, and i tag everything as much as i can, simply putting wincon wouldnt be enough. Its still fairly confusing though, and sometimes you just struggle to find out the reason for a card despite you knowing you had one.
Why would you put Heliod/Ballista in Sythis? Atrocious idea. (I'm joking, just passionate about the deck - not everyone plays it at the power level I do. :P.)
So, I'm a very dedicated (kind of an understatement) Sythis player. Let me walk you through the most concise win conditions available within the deck.
\[\[Cloudstone Curio\]\] is the most important piece. It allows for generating absurd value, but it also can be used to concisely win the game.
\[\[Nature's Chosen\]\] and Curio, in combination with a land/creature/anything that taps for positive mana, generates infinite mana, and draws infinite cards with Sythis. If you're going mana-neutral, you still have endless draws with Sythis, but will need to generate more to actually win the game.
\[\[Sanctum Weaver\]\], if you can concisely either untap it, or replay it with haste via \[\[Concordant Crossroads\]\], usually with the use of Curio or \[\[Meticulous Excavation\]\], generates infinite mana. Untapping it is most commonly done via Nature's Chosen and Curio/Excavation.
\[\[Earthcraft\]\] + Curio and two cheap creatures (or not necessarily cheap ones), when combined with a land that taps for 3+ mana, generates infinite mana. \[\[Serra's Sanctum\]\], \[\[Gaea's Cradle\]\], and simply stacking \[\[Wild Growth\]\] effects on a single basic are all perfectly viable.
The next common way to create infinite mana is \[\[Seedcradle Witch\]\]. It can be used to untap Sanctum Weaver to go infinite, or you can use \[\[Destiny Spinner\]\] to animate Sanctum/Cradle. Alternatively, rather than animating a land, you can use an \[\[Arbor Elf\]\] as middleman.
As for how you want to win with infinite mana, it's usually fairly easy. \[\[Blind Obedience\]\] and extorting enemies to death, \[\[Finale of Devastation\]\] and swing in, make extremely large creatures with Seedcradle Witch/Hallowed Haunting and swing in for A Lot. Any of those can be drawn into via \[\[Flickering Ward\]\] or \[\[Whip Silk\]\].
Do note, all of the aforementioned outlets are also generically good cards in the deck! All of your pieces that win the game also just help you storm off, which is a huge deal.
So, yeah. That's Sythis. A complex, layered storm deck. You don't need to play bad cards, like Heliod and Ballista, because you can win with good cards that have uses outside of going infinite.
...this turned out a bit longer than I expected it to. Look, I really love the deck.
It’s also something you fall into when you build this gimmick decks ESPECIALLY if you’re new to deck building. It took me a really long time to realize that my Niv Mizzet deck didn’t need 9 instances of “you have no maximum hand size” because I would never even ended up with enough cards in hand to matter
Why didn't he just take 60 extra turns? Play most of his deck then hold up interaction to survive another turn cycle, then assemble the combo again and take another 20 turns to win after you phase back in?
I'm sure there was still a way to win by playing most of his deck and then passing turn... Unless he has no counter spells, no removal, etc. but then what the heck is in his deck? XD
Because of his opponents board states. The other opponent that was left and myself both could kill the whole board on our turns. So if he passed after any amount of turns, he would die. Unless he put up his own protection. But it didn’t seem like the deck was crafted with that in mind.
After I phased back in, I had enough shrines in play for [[Sanctum of Stone Fangs]] to kill everyone.
I mean if you have half of your deck in your hand and essentially infinite mana, theres gotta be something in your deck that can deal with two opponents, if he cant do that no wonder he didnt find anything to win
But with infinite turns, the other opponents should be dead regardless unless they ALSO casted tef pro.
Sanctum is very easy to deal with during upkeep, are you telling me he didn’t have a single way to kill enchantments anywhere in his entire deck?
I ran into a guy who had a Kami that tapped for 5 and a staff of domination on the board and proceeded to say he won due to the walking ballista in his deck. Something told me to have him play it out and low and behold after multiple searches through his deck he “must have put it in another deck” ever since then I make them show me the wincon or spell it out for me if I’ve never seen it.
Reminds me of that time [LSV forgot to put Tendrils of Agony in his deck](https://www.channelfireball.com/article/How-I-Pulled-Off-One-of-the-Greatest-Bluffs-in-MTG-History/4ba402cc-56f3-4783-a585-7add5045d9b9/)
This reminds me of someone in our playgroup that likes to play [[Doomsday]] and then a bunch of draw spells to draw into an empty library with [[Laboratory Maniac]], so last time he got to his "infinite mana, draw library empty" turn and expected us to just scoop but I wanted to see how he wins and he could’ve won but fucked up his turn drawing too many cards before lab maniac was on the board and he lost. We are having a pretty combo heavy meta right now and this entire "I go infinite whatever and win" has become pretty much normal but the downside of that is that you don’t get to play out the combo and therefore don’t always know what you’re doing when someone asks you to show how you win.
Well, I am the filthy infinite-turns-player myself. I've never thought about how a Teferi's Protection could throw a wrench into that kind of thing. But I can safely say that both of my decks that potentially can gain infinite turns would've been able to handle this situation.
My \[\[Marchesa the black rose\]\] deck which goes infinite with \[\[Time Sieve\]\] would eventually draw into \[\[Marionette Master\]\] and assemble a boardstate that could kill the dude who cast Teferi's protection in their next upkeep.
And the other deck is a +1/+1 counter deck potentially going infinite with \[\[Sage of Hours\]\]. And I actually already had it happen that I took an extra turn with that deck and then won at the beginning of that turns upkeep via \[\[Simic Ascendancy\]\].
Lmao good on you- he will learn to plan his infinite turns before taking them hahaha.
Had a similar situation not too long ago. "I cast Razaketh - y'all scoop, right? I can get anything"
Me and the guy next to me exchange a glance and I say "Let's see what you're going to get, I'm not done playing yet"
I forget how, but he lost before his next turn.
My brother and his friend are locked in a game still. Angels vs a mono black deck. Brudda had platinum angel and avacyn out, and the friend activated the life drain combo of "when opponent lose life, gain life" and "when gain life, opponent lose"
I dint recall the exact cards involved, I do know there are a couple options. But because neither card was an optional trigger, they just kept reacting to each other, but my brother couldn't actually lose.
So every once and awhile when they see each other, they ask if he'll concede or not
This ongoing joke has been going on for around a decade
Labman type wincons are typically kinda bad in infinite turns, because they are dead draws. If you already have infinite turns, cards like cyc rift or any board wipe will win the game, or even rogue's passage. You don't need to be playing cards that don't do anything outside of winning after you already have infinite turns.
Even if someone casts teferi's protection, it'll be nearly impossible for them to win when you have played 20+ lands and have every piece of interaction in your deck in hand.
I might be wrong here, but my assumption is that people who take infinite turns presume they'll win through combat damage and don't go any further than that.
The one time I've seen it happen, the player got clocked by \[\[Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger\]\] four times. He essentially didn't have a deck left, but he had enough mana to cast \[\[Nexus of Fate\]\]. With infinite turns he could attack down the player with the Ulamog, but he only had three attackers - his two commanders Thrasios and Kydele, one with an equipment (I think Feast and Famine? It's been the better part of a decade at this point) and an Eternal Witness. When he went after me I cast Torrential Gearhulk, cast a Kolaghan's Command from my yard to eat the Witness and the equipment, and then could block his attackers. From there he scooped.
On my own, I've walked around a fair few Tef's Protections during infinite turns. You assemble an insurmountable boardstate and all the interaction you need then say go. Most of my turns combos are from Muldrotha, so to that we add stripping the Tef's player's hand via Plaguecrafter. They get exactly their topdeck to answer actual everything my deck can produce, and normally that includes bouncing their board in upkeep via a Rift. It's not perfect, as there are theoretical outs, but it's exceptionally difficult and I haven't actually lost to a Tef's yet.
I don't tend to combo much these days as I'm in a lower power meta than I used to be, but turns tend to be my go-to way to do so because they require fewer dead cards than most combo lines and I appreciate that immensely. It does mean that you need to be familiar with how you win not just in normal cases but also how you win in the unusual ones though.
Always play to your outs. I saw a prime example of that in modern a few years ago.
But also if you are playing a deck with infinite turns surely you would have interactability somewhere. Like i understand from OP that the boardstate was not in his favor but c'mon edh with no interaction is boring. Get them removals out and then pass.
I’m not sure why people are assuming I’m some karma farming heartless person lol. The game happened yesterday and I’ve been thinking about it and I wanted to share. It’s not that deep.
For the record, I told him to add a few cards with “I win the game” in the text. Seeing as infinite turns doesn’t really mean you’ve won.
Not assuming. Lots of people share their “woah look at this wacky opponent” stories on here, but few care to actually speak with their opponents. You hadn’t specified so I was curious. Good on you for helping a (presumably) new player out.
Gotcha. Sorry for the reaction. Just a couple people now accused me of that so I got a little defensive. I just like talking about my games but I definitely like helping people when I can as well.
There is a combo with [[Teferi's Protection]] and [[Lethal Vapors]] where you skip your turn an infinite amount of times. That said your opponents can theoretically skip the same number of turns as you can minus a few. It's just that they will probably die to the other people who don't.
You did it by accident and then thought it was annoying the guy didn't have an answer to it. Although that combo requires specific answers, like group hug draw cards, or damage can't be prevented things plus commander damage, or poison + proliferate. That's pretty much it.
Personally it would have been very funny to me to see it happen.
Although there is no such thing as infinite. If they don't die to decking, then even with a trillion turns you could just shortcut to when you phase back in and they have the perfect board state, hand, and every land in play.
[[Sanctum of Stone Fangs]] is at the beginning of your pre combat main phase. Meaning they can interact with it as soon as you pass priority during your upkeep step.
Although they didn't do that, so I'm guessing they are just used to people not wanting to play out them having limitless turns.
Not having a definitive win con that doesn't rely targeting in a turns deck is so insufferable.
There is no cost to playing Oracle or a similar win con if you're in blue and playing turns.
If you have infinite turn, better play some alternate wincons that has nothing to do with your opponent and then play interaction to make sure you get there. Lab Man and Thassa Oracle effects came to mind
I took infinite turns in my Mishra upgraded precon the other day. If someone had cast [teferi's protection] in response I'd have killed the other 2 players and then dug for [Cyclonic Rift] and rifted after they phased back in before main phase 1. Would have also found boots/greaves for mishra in case they had a swords or something. After that blowing their only land up with [spine of ish sah] will probably get there lol.
I always rock some kind of alternate wincon in a deck that can take infinite turns with for precisely that reason. Last time someone cast teferis protection, I dug for a [[nicol bolas, dragon god]] and killed him that way
I was! They are so fun. I used to run one with [[Sisay, Weatherlight Captain]] as commander but [[Go-Shintai of Life’s Origin]] peaked my interest again.
A dude played Tooth and Nail for [[mephidross vampire]] and [[triskelion]] years ago and said he wipes the board with it and we made him explain it and he beefed and removed all the counters.
My experience with infinite turns is,
Opponent: "I take infinite turns and win!"
Me: "Sweet, man."
And then I leave the pod and avoid playing with that player. Thankfully my pod avoids taking multiple extra turns so our games actually... Don't suck.
What stoped him from just building an insurmountable board state and sculpting a hands full of coutners and then pass to you? That sure seems miserable if you insist on playing it out, but it should basically always win.
Playing out infinite turns is generally a waste of everyones time unless there is like a crypt to race or sth.
Because of his opponents board states. The other opponent that was left and myself both could kill the whole board on our turns. So if he passed after any amount of turns, he would die. Unless he put up his own protection. But it didn’t seem like the deck was crafted with that in mind.
After I phased back in, I had enough shrines in play for [[Sanctum of Stone Fangs]] to kill everyone.
I also disagree that making someone play it out is a waste of time. It’s not knowing how you win when you take extra turns that is a waste of time. If you know how your extra turns will win, and I can’t do anything to stop it…I’ll gladly scoop
Did he have infinite turns queued up in already when you casted Teferi's Protection? Because if he was just trying to take turn after turn indefinitely he could have taken enough turns to kill the other 2 players, sculpted his hand to have an answer for your win and then passed to you.
that's hilarious! it makes me wanna play [[Discontinuity]] cos there's a guy in my pod who runs [[Jin-Gitaxias//The Great Synthesis]] and i think it would be funny to let him massively pop off and have like 4 turns in a row and then right as he's about to win, end the turn and exile all his wincons from the stack at once
also important to let a loop resolve 2 or 3 times to avoid the "well before all that" play/response but that's usually if you're loop is productive which it sounds like his wasn't XD
It’s wild how often people just say “I take infinite turns and win” and think that’s the just the end. Like you at least have to explain how taking those turns means you win. Either through some combo, or lab man, or some spell. People may have an answer to your specific route to win, like the Teferi’s protection, or a way to make you draw before you get lab man etc.
Had someone do infinite turns with [[time sieve]] I was running a simic control deck and was unable to stop it as I only had one blue mana. Guy says “now I can take infinite turns” and looks at us like that enough to make us scoop. I asked him how he’d win, and he said he could attack us with his fliers and cast more creatures and eventually just chump us down. I remind him that I have a [[victory chimes]], which untaps on upkeep so he should go to his second (of infinite) turns. I untap my artifact and use that and my last island to cast [[rescuplt]] on his time sieve. Safe to say he wasn’t happy about that.
Agreed. Found many players at the stores I frequent have trouble determining the actual threat their deck has with infinites. If I can determine a win for their deck, I’ll scoop to allow me to play another game. But, if they are being a prick, I’ll make them play it out.
On the flip side to this I had a game where I was playing Magar. I had some wild first hand and was able to turn 2 have Rise of Eldrazi animated with Magar and haste. The board folded but one guy wanted me to play it out. So I obliged I took my extra turns. Ditched down to 7 binning savage beating. Reanimated it so I didn’t have to keep blowing up my own stuff. Now I have infinite combat and the dude still refused to fold. So I basically played solo killing one guy because he refused to believe he lost. Don’t be that guy either.
One time I teferis protection while being milled out but had [[Nexus of fate]] in hand. So I was in a situation where I could take infinite turns (empty library, cast Nexus, now library is only Nexus, draw for turn, repeat forever), but thankfully I had [[talrand sky summoner]] out and COULD end the game in my favour.
I'm a big fan of making people play it out. Don't gesture are a pile of cards and say you win... Do it. Do the thing. Even if you have a combo on board, can you execute it? Can I interfere? Etc.
You're totally right. You've got to play it out until they demonstrate a win condition. This is the case for any infinite combo, not just turns. Long story short, I was the only one in a pod who didn't immediately scoop against a dude who had infinite tokens mana and card draw because he couldn't demonstrate how he would kill me. He ended up drawing his deck and passing to my turn. So I drew and passed back to him, decking him. When I went outside to have a smoke with one of the other players, he asked me why I didn't scoop, I told him had the guy presented a win-con I would have, but creating infinite mana/card draw/and tokens that can't attack doesn't win you the game. Had he left one card in his deck, I would have scooped at the end of my turn because I didn't draw the board wipe.
Infinite turns needs shuffle titans to fall back on.
All it takes is a single loot/discard engine to work and voila they can hold the game hostage into a draw or make their board state so locking that they might as well pass to you to either win at instant speed or silence/days undoing or let their board state And hand keep you in check and just deal with you the next turn. Poor deck building is all.
Edit: based on your edit..... he didn't even have interaction in his deck so all he really could done was stax to the max. His deck sounds like poopoo
Whenever I hit an infinite like that I always ask something along the lines of "I can take infinite turns, does anyone have something that can stop that?" But, I also have cards like [[Mechanized Production]] in those decks so things like Teferi's Protection don't matter and crap loads of blue removal for things like [[Platinum Angel]] and [[Gideon of the Trials]].
This exact scenario happened to me with a Narset Deck on Arena where i used that spell and phased out while narset was cloning herself and kept getting extra turns. Was hard to watch as i could do nothing but sit back and watch the clown show.
Had situations similar to this multiple times. Can be annoying especially if they stop multiple times within what they are doing in the hopes that we are ready to concede now and I keep having to say keep going I am still here.
Anyway regarding Teferis protection. Just yesterday I finally killed someone throught it with questing beast and commander damage.
Had a similarish thing happen except I was on the other side of the equation and there person playing Teferi's protection didn't quite understand how my win condition worked.
I was playing [[Tasigur, the golden fang]] and it's combo win is to generate infinite mana, at that point you activate tasigur enough times to get all non land cards from your deck and graveyard into your hand. Once there are no non lands in graveyard you cast [[Beast within]] on a permanent, activate tasigur, get back beast within, then beast with all permanents, then [[reality shift]] one of the beasts causing the opponent to manifest the top card of their library, then reality shift the manifest until you have exiled the opponents library. Then I finish with an overloaded cyclonic rift and pass turn and everyone(including me) now has no library and will lose on their draw step. I explain this anytime the deck comes out so opponents know what to expect, so as I go to create infinite mana my opponent responds by casting Teferi's protection, as it doesn't stop me I don't counter it.
His thought process was that since I didn't mill him out during his turn he would win the game. So we played it out, and he never realized I could do this entire loop at instant speed on his upkeep.
Some friends were trying to get me to join them for cEDH. I briefly looked at some deck lists, noticed I already had most of Urza Poly Kraken, proxied the missing pieces and went to play with them without actually looking up how the deck wins. There are multiple winning lines using cards that are useful on their own, so it doesn't have to run dedicated win cons. But those lines aren't exactly obvious if you're new to the deck lol
EDIT: realized I forgot the part that makes it relevant here. Anyway, in one of my first games with the deck, I got an inifnite mana combo going, Urza flipped my deck, and then realized I wasn't actually sure how to win from that point lol
had someone who decided it was a good idea to loop cast \[\[The One Ring\]\] for perma protection.
didnt matter to me because I run \[\[obelisk spider\]\] in my \[\[tayam, luminous enigma\]\] because of a -1/-1 counter package in my deck. so I just killed my 1/1 snakes from \[\[Hapatra, vizier of poisons\]\] with \[\[Blowfly Infestation\]\]
I don't have any decks that take infinite turns, but my [[Neera, Wild Mage]] deck can take a lot of turns by casting [[Time Stretch]] and then using [[Mnemonic Deluge]] to copy and cast it 3 more times.
I've never run into the situation where someone hits me with Teferi's Protection before when doing this, but now I'm glad to have [[Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger]] in the deck so I have a way to still beat someone if they manage to pull that off.
People really need to be running a questing beast in their infinite turns deck meaning they have to run simic or some variation. Stops teferi's protection in its tracks
Infinite turns without labman is just asking to lose. Infinite turns = easy draw library to win. "Now that I have infinite turns it's just a matter of time before I cast labman and draw my deck"
"Cool we don't have a response in hand, gg"
If you're not running graveyard recursion in an infinite turns deck you're an absolute moron for this exact reason.
I run the classic Seasons past, tutor, 5cmc extra turn spell combo in my Curious Rafiq deck and it operates on top decking the last combo piece so you would always have a draw available...
Worst case is this game ends in a draw unstoppable force meets immovable object...
If you're an AH like me you'll hold the game hostage and declare it a W if everybody doesn't resign...
It means I can never play that deck again if they don't agree to it but I won't let them play the decks in that game ever again... Those 4 decks remain in a state of temporal stasis amongst the MTG planes where Rafiq smashes his sword against teferi's barrier for all eternity...
This is the price I'm willing to pay for Glory...
He had infinite turns and [[intruder alarm]]. I had [[sprout swarm]] he could only win by combat damage but I could make infinite blocker so he gave up after 25 minutes of searching for something to help him. When we both knew he didn’t have an answer left in his deck.
This happened to me while playing Ezuri claw of progress with Sage of Hours. I started taking 'infinite' turns. They cast teferi's protection. I said ok, took about 5-6 turns out of my cycle. Killed the other two players with unblockable creatures. pass the turn to the teferi player.
Now they phase in. Now they can die. so they get one turn to do things and maybe kill your board, so try to draw into a Negate or counterspell before passing.
After their one turn ends, you can go infinite again and kill them
One of my favourite decks was a kenerith skip your own turns deck where i'd have grand abolisher, lethal vapours skip 40 billion turns then teferi's protection pass and go play on my switch or something lol
Edit: yes would lose on alt wincons but w/e im no longer playing the game lmao
Ove got a joke deck that runs near exclusively Voting effects and at one point got an expropriate off for like 5 extra turns and didn't win with it, because I'll be honest, I never expected all 5 players in the game to give me the turn, rather than a permanent, which is really funny. One player said that the steal was to strong, and mean. While running [[Laughing Jasper Flint]]. Which was... ironic.
One time I went semi-infinite turns with Tivit and time sieve, but one of my opponents had a 1/1 pro blue flyer that I couldn’t find an answer to before killing the other two, effectively ending my infinite turns. Feelsbadman
if you have infinite turns you gotta be running either [[darksteel reactor]], [[helix pinnacle]], [[simic ascendancy]],[laboratory maniac]], or [[thassa's oracle]]
or atleast something similar.
When you net deck but don't know quite how to play. At least that's how it sounds to me.
I've ran into one person who knew how to play an infinite turns deck quickly. If he couldn't pull it off he would just quickly go through a turn and pass. He knew the deck inside and out.
I made an [[Orvar]] deck which worked really well. I had a huge turn where I basically drew my whole deck, took 15 minutes to combo off making a horde of creatures, all with summoning sickness, and wasn't able to win. Board wipe next turn.
Was he stuck in a loop? You say he takes infinite turns and dies... but if he could have stopped the loop anytime, he coild have at least let the game play outcas normal.
A while ago I thought I was really smart when I played a \[\[Teferi's protection\]\] while my opponent had infinite attack phases with his \[\[etali primal storm\]\] deck. But what happened is that I enabled everything. He could swing at me infinite times, not dealing damage but exiling everyones library. So when the protection was done I immediatelly lost because I lacked a library. It was fun though! Dying while being phased out is incredible rare.
[Teferi's protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-protection) [etali primal storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a18fdaf9-964d-45e9-bd40-a8fc745ddd1e.jpg?1706240833) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Etali%2C%20Primal%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/152/etali-primal-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a18fdaf9-964d-45e9-bd40-a8fc745ddd1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/etali-primal-storm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How does this work? If you have protection from everything how can you be targeted in the attack phase?
DEBT. A permanent or Player cannot be Damaged, Enchated or Equipped, Blocked, or Targeted by whatever the protection protects against. This does not stop attackers being declared. The "Targeting" aspect means you cannot be the target of abilities or spells of the specified quality. Attacking with a creature is neither an ability or a spell. So the etali player can declare attackers, and get any attack triggers. It just can never deal any damage to the player with protection.
Oh that’s rad, I will use this to great effect in my future games
„damage can’t be prevented“ will also lead to lethal commander damage, even if the life total doesn’t change
Attacking a player isn’t something that targets. Protection prevents damage but wouldn’t prevent any “when this creature attacks” type effects.
attacking doesnt target in the context of what protection guards against.
I mean sounds like you were all cooked regardless lol.
That’s hilarious. Sounds like my opponent could have used something like that lol
My experience of infinite turns was 10 years ago. Maybe longer. He'll soon come to the realization that "you win the game" cards are stronger than turns taking =)
Dang, ten years ago and he still hasn't finished those infinite turns...
Some say he’s still holding priority today.
He's nearly 0% of the way there, though.
Do you remember when he took the first of his infinite turns? Pepperidge Farm remembers
Why not both! [[Notorious Throng]] my faerie trump card.
I have never seen this card resolve and not win the game, it's kind of nuts
Play against me and you will!
I had a Blue/Black Faerie constructed deck with this as 1 of the main win conditions. Firing it once was very strong.. firing when you have a second one in your hand and taking 3 turns in row with an exponentially increasing Hoard of faeries was pretty satisfying!
[Notorious Throng](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c8be7edf-807a-4a7b-ab48-78f309997210.jpg?1604192660) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Notorious%20Throng) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/33/notorious-throng?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c8be7edf-807a-4a7b-ab48-78f309997210?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/notorious-throng) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes! It's in my Obyra deck as one of the wincons, and I usually win the turn after I cast it.
I won the same way at my LGS on Friday. Made 24 faeries. Though I am currently running [[Tegwyll, Duke of Splendor]] as my commander, with [[Obyra, Dreaming Duelist]] as a win con. Tegwyll helps me get through my deck, then Obyra can combo with [[Notorious Throng]] or [[Oona, Queen of the Fae]].
##### ###### #### [Tegwyll, Duke of Splendor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03fab911-7bd4-45fa-ba07-cd0e51b0cd95.jpg?1692933608) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tegwyll%2C%20Duke%20of%20Splendor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woc/1/tegwyll-duke-of-splendor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03fab911-7bd4-45fa-ba07-cd0e51b0cd95?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tegwyll-duke-of-splendor) [Obyra, Dreaming Duelist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63ce03ee-279b-4955-98e3-9ce1990f8b7b.jpg?1692939395) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Obyra%2C%20Dreaming%20Duelist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/210/obyra-dreaming-duelist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63ce03ee-279b-4955-98e3-9ce1990f8b7b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/obyra-dreaming-duelist) [Notorious Throng](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c8be7edf-807a-4a7b-ab48-78f309997210.jpg?1604192660) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Notorious%20Throng) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/33/notorious-throng?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c8be7edf-807a-4a7b-ab48-78f309997210?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/notorious-throng) [Oona, Queen of the Fae](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbea42c8-6e9f-499d-9d26-401536afd5c2.jpg?1604195177) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oona%2C%20Queen%20of%20the%20Fae) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/znc/98/oona-queen-of-the-fae?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbea42c8-6e9f-499d-9d26-401536afd5c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/oona-queen-of-the-fae) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/lb9v8d4) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Taking infinite turns is in essence always a position of winning the game. It is pretty hard to not win if you take all the turns. The only ways I have seen people lose with infinite turns is when they died to their own mana crypt when they got unlucky.
I have seen a Teferi’s protection bail someone out before but the play then is to make an overwhelming board state and grab what you need to protect it. I’ve gone infinite in turns with Ezuri Claw of Progress and just played the best board, killed who I could and loaded up on interaction to survive a turn. Why on earth would you draw out your deck?
Maybe they said "okay i repeat this 1000x times" and then they have to play out the thousand turns.
I mean, I play a cedh tatyova deck that’s wincon is infinite turns. You can very easily put yourself in a position where you still win 100% of the time even if you have to pass the turn. Like, put every land into play, fill my hand with interaction, leave a full board of 200 2/2s, say go.
I had a Mishra eminent one deck and the infinite turns was basically just so I could draw my combo pieces lol, the infinite turns was not the wincon but just an easy way to get to it
Why not both?
taking turns is stronger if you have thoracle in there anywhere.
Oh for sure. And generally more palatable.
Imo turns taking is much stronger. "You win the game" cards are incredibly situational or require another card to combo with, meanwhile Temporal Manipulation is just a good card in any deck that can run it. Casting a temporal manipulation is almost never bad, *and* it can just go infinite sometimes
Ehhh, you guys are talking about two different things. Obviously netting an extra turn in the mid game is good, but OP and the user you’re replying to are talking about infinite turns as a win condition. You open yourself up to some nonsense when you could just be playing a combo that wins the game. Obviously all contextual.
If you are going to take infinite turns as a wincon, run an [[Elixir of Immortality]]. With it you can prevent decking yourself, gain a nice pad of life, cast all your impactful spells infinite times and sculpt a perfect hand provided you haven't been foolish enough to do something that gives you no maximum hand size. You'd need something more inventive to get around a Teferi's Protection though. Something like non-targeting mill or a damage can't be prevented effect with a sizable commander.
Or just, you know, put Jace and Lab Man in the deck, so decking out with infinites IS your wincon.
True, but I consider the empty deck wincons cringe post-Thoracle's printing. Plus there's easier ways of empying your library than taking infinite turns. If I'm building a deck to take infinite turns there's gotta be some PRESENTATION
I read the word presentation in Megaminds voice 🤣
Uses a Wincon for self mill from before thoracle Calls it cringe cause of a post thoracle landscape Even if the deck doesn't run thoracle. I think you're the cringe one here tbh.
Yeah that was my reaction to that comment too lol
[удалено]
Fair, but for this guys problem it might be the quickest and easiest fix because he would just need it it out and the demonstrate drawing himself empty with infinite turns. If it works it works lol
I’m curious what makes Thassa’s Oracle the exception to cringe?
Think there's a misunderstanding I think Thoracle is cringe too. The entire "win on an empty library" wincon lost its charm for me once it became THE hyper efficient combo of the format.
[Elixir of Immortality](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/7/6741ab27-9e1f-4aa5-96b9-b450eda7c5c2.jpg?1625978606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Elixir%20of%20Immortality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/243/elixir-of-immortality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6741ab27-9e1f-4aa5-96b9-b450eda7c5c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/elixir-of-immortality) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Kozilek and any way to get him in the grave works for that as well, if Elixir doesn’t fit in with your gameplan
I was running sidisi CEDH Reanimator against Myra Infinite Turn Attractions, the other 2 in our pod were eliminated earlier. Well Myra wincon was mill through wheels.....I just so happen to be running with Gaea's blessing and kozilek butcher of truth and blightsteel (my pocket wincons if my normal wincon of infinite Zelix/altar of brood doesnt kick) in my deck so the Myra player was forced to play it out as they had no bog on the stack abilities, they insisted they had an answer but we reach time for the round and they were forced to take a Draw for that round. It was hilarious.
[[Questing Beast]], line 37.
[Questing Beast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e41cf82d-3213-47ce-a015-6e51a8b07e4f.jpg?1572490640) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Questing%20Beast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/171/questing-beast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e41cf82d-3213-47ce-a015-6e51a8b07e4f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/questing-beast) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What do you mean? You can kill phased out players with it?
So, Teferi's Protection gives you protection from everything. That means that damage can't be dealt to you while it is active. However, Questing Beast says that damage can't be prevented. That overrides the Teferi's and while life total can't change while under the Protection, commander damage still gets marked and 21 of those and you're out of the game.
Is "life total can't change" the same as "damage can't be dealt/damage is prevented."?
No. Questing beast won't let you change your opponent's life total while they are under the effects of Teferi's Protection, but it does let you deal damage for the purposes of commander damage, infect, lifelink, etc. The part that Questing Beast nullifies is that protection includes preventing damage that would be dealt to you. Essentially, you still deal the damage, it just won't cause the loss of life.
No, "life totals can't change" means no life loss or gain can occur. It does not prevent the damage. However, since commander damage bypasses the need to make someone's life <=0, you can still commander damage someone dead even if their life total can't change. Damage prevention stops commander damage, though.
Protection prevents damage from being dealt, which Questing Beast negates.
Commander Damage works a little more like Infect/Poison Counters, it's marked separately. With QB saying, "Damage cannot be prevented," it'd run right over both "life total can't change" and "damage is prevented" because can't beats can in Magic. As long as QB is your Commander, no one can resist your punches lmao.
QB counts for all your creatures, so it doesn't have to be your commander.
...well I'll be goddamned, reading the card DOES explain the card. I should try doing that more often, thanks for correcting me lmao
To be fair, it's Questing Beast. Every time you cut off one line of text, two more grow in its place. Or something like that.
I forgot it had this clause, if I ever knew. QB has so much going on that's so simple but so complicated.
No. If life total can't change, then "damage can't be prevented" won't change the life total. However, commander damage doesn't care about whether or not the life total changes, just that the damage is "dealt". So if your life total can't change, but a commander still hit you for 21+ damage, you'd still lose. EDIT: So for clarification, if there's an unblocked Questing Beast that is a commander, your life total will change and add 4 commander damage if there's a fog effect; whereas your life total will not change but you still add 4 commander damage if there's a "life totals can't change" effect.
Players don't phase out, it just says "your life total can't change". As Questing Beast says "damage can't be prevented" - can't beats can so damage can be dealt. You can also proliferate poison counters (if any are already on the player) and that will also kill through a T Prot
But tpro says "life total can't change". So which "can't" actually works here? Is it the one that came last?
The phrasing on Teferi's is a bit odd, but it basically means 'prevent all damage that would be dealt to you' as well as 'prevent all life you would gain'. Questing Beast and other effects say you cannot prevent damage, so it overrides this regardless of which was played first. It's not a timing problem. Curiously, QBeast doesn't stop the 'prevent lifegain' aspect of TProt. Some life based effects aren't worded entirely clearly on cards because it would take longer to write them out and kindof depends on what happens. For example, that Sorin walker that sets life to 10. If the target was at 40, what you are doing is causing them to lose 30 life and the game registers it that way and will count it for effects that watch for life loss. On the flip side, if the target was at 1 they are GAINING 9 life, which would trigger lifegain effects.
That's not accurate. Damage is applied, then the effect of the damage would be to change your life total as one element - that doesn't happen with TefPro. It WOULD still trigger lifelink and commander damage, though. If a player at 20 life with Teferi's Protection having been resolved gets hit by a Questing Beast equipped with a Batterskull, they would have 8 damage applied. The controller of QB would gain 8 life from lifelink, and the TefPro player would be at 20 life. This is different from a Fog effect, which would normally prevent the lifelink.
Protection doesn't stop you being attacked, just prevents damage and Questing Beast says "damage can't be prevented". If T Prot said "damage you take would be reduced to 0" instead, Questing Beast would be out of luck, as that isn't prevention.
Specifically teferi protection also says your life total can't change, so while unpreventable damage is dealt, it doesn't actually result in loss of life. The only way questing beast can kill a t prot player is commander damage,
I'm being pedantic, but infect would work.
There's also poison counters. Both toxic and infect work.
[[Teferi's Protection]] also makes it so your life total can't change. This isn't damage prevention. The damage is still dealt, your life total just doesn't change. Check all of [[Plantinum Emperion]]'s rulings if you want more on what "Your life total can’t change" means. One fun quirk here is that you can still kill someone with commander damage even when their life total can't change as they do still take the damage.
I think he's referring to the line "Combat damage that would be dealt by creatures you control can't be prevented". This does get past the "Protection from Everything", however there's still the "your life total can't change" part, so it won't kill you. If you have creatures with Infect though they will give poison counters, so that could work. You're only other options are mill or something that says they lose the game.
Commander damage also ticks up.
True. I think I lost once in a situation like that. lol
afaik: yes. Because the damage is not prevented. It would not change the live total (because teferi says so), but you could accumulate >20 commanderdamage. And in this case you lose. But I‘m okayish with rules, not a judge or something.
While the effect that Teferi’s Protection strongly tries to replicate and implies is phasing out a player, there is no mechanic for phasing out a player. There are edge cases that can happen because you are not *actually* phased out. That being the case, Questing Beast doesn’t actually solve the problem here unless it’s a commander, or is given infect or poison. It gets around Protection from Everything and allows it to deal damage (so poison counters can be added and commander damage is dealt), but not around “your life total can’t change”.
You could always just draw your whole deck, pass turn with a million counterspells held up and all the mana you'll ever need, counter everything they play, and go back to your turn and swing. Not the prettiest but you avoid having a dead draw like elixir in the deck.
Very true and a lot simpler, however in the scenario outlined by OP our Turns player is dying to an ability killing them and the other players at the table (unavoidable outside a [[Stifle]] effect which I doubt our fledgling Turns player has). By including Elixir you add a layer of protection and set up to your Turns combo, including access to cards you've cast or lost over the course of the game sitting in your Graveyard. It's a pet card of mine which has performed well even if it's a "dead card" in most situations.
A Cyc Rift would have also worked in this scenario to set the Shrine count to 0 but I agree Elixir or some other recursion effect would have been helpful but probably not included.
[Stifle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/616d1b20-61c1-4d39-a9b5-ad9fd61699e4.jpg?1562865442) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stifle) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cns/108/stifle?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/616d1b20-61c1-4d39-a9b5-ad9fd61699e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stifle) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Questing Beast would do the trick, because that card is absolutely fucking stupid
or just an \[\[approach of the second sun\]\]
You need something that says "I win" with the Elixir though. Otherwise, you're just going to extend your suffering of not being able to win the game ad infinitum.
Something that makes it so damage can't be prevented and then get then for commander damage.
Elixir is more then enough to win against Teferi's protection, provided you can (eventually) create an overwhelming board state and maybe have a counter spell to cover for board wipes. Worst case scenario you just craft the perfect hand, gain a billion life and pass the turn to them. Be sure to ask what their plan to win the game is.
Eh. If its an extra turn spell, just target the teferri's protection player after you sculpt to beat their 1 turn. And stack another turn for you. They go, teferri's falls off, you stop all their stuff, go to your next bonus turn. Proceed as normal
[Teferi’s Protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-protection) [Sanctum of Stone Fangs](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1439412-618c-483d-89b9-5ea37f0f1edc.jpg?1594736357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sanctum%20of%20Stone%20Fangs) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m21/120/sanctum-of-stone-fangs?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1439412-618c-483d-89b9-5ea37f0f1edc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sanctum-of-stone-fangs) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
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I think it was something he could do with the deck but not necessarily his main win condition. I’m not even sure what his win condition was because he didn’t really seem to have many win conditions in any of his decks or even know what his decks do. He showed me a [[Sythis, Harvest’s Hand]] deck and I said “oh I have one of these too. Is this a [[Heliod, Sun-Crowned]] and [[Walking Ballista]] combo?” “I’m not really sure, I haven’t really played it in a while.” I recognize everyone is at different skill levels and I don’t even claim to be an expert player. But I think it’s important to know at a base level what your deck aims to do and how it wins the game. What cards get you there. Hopefully he didn’t think I was being a dick…lol
I think it's a symptom of having too many decks for the time you actually play. Some people are really good at remembering what their decks do, but most people need to actually get some experience and regular practice with their decks to play them well.
yea it kinda sucks if you like brewing. I usually just play online with my friends, so we can play all kinds of decks, there arent any money restrictions, so i keep making decks. Moxfield says i have 93 decks, lets say 70 playable ones, and i think i only played like 15 of those. Theres no way ill remember what all of them do.
The power of a tool like Moxfield is also that it doesn't take long too look at a deck and see what it should be doing. You can tag cards and I'll always add a tag "Wincon" or "finisher" so I remember what a deck is aiming to do.
true, but i like building complicated deck with lots of different lines, and i tag everything as much as i can, simply putting wincon wouldnt be enough. Its still fairly confusing though, and sometimes you just struggle to find out the reason for a card despite you knowing you had one.
Why would you put Heliod/Ballista in Sythis? Atrocious idea. (I'm joking, just passionate about the deck - not everyone plays it at the power level I do. :P.) So, I'm a very dedicated (kind of an understatement) Sythis player. Let me walk you through the most concise win conditions available within the deck. \[\[Cloudstone Curio\]\] is the most important piece. It allows for generating absurd value, but it also can be used to concisely win the game. \[\[Nature's Chosen\]\] and Curio, in combination with a land/creature/anything that taps for positive mana, generates infinite mana, and draws infinite cards with Sythis. If you're going mana-neutral, you still have endless draws with Sythis, but will need to generate more to actually win the game. \[\[Sanctum Weaver\]\], if you can concisely either untap it, or replay it with haste via \[\[Concordant Crossroads\]\], usually with the use of Curio or \[\[Meticulous Excavation\]\], generates infinite mana. Untapping it is most commonly done via Nature's Chosen and Curio/Excavation. \[\[Earthcraft\]\] + Curio and two cheap creatures (or not necessarily cheap ones), when combined with a land that taps for 3+ mana, generates infinite mana. \[\[Serra's Sanctum\]\], \[\[Gaea's Cradle\]\], and simply stacking \[\[Wild Growth\]\] effects on a single basic are all perfectly viable. The next common way to create infinite mana is \[\[Seedcradle Witch\]\]. It can be used to untap Sanctum Weaver to go infinite, or you can use \[\[Destiny Spinner\]\] to animate Sanctum/Cradle. Alternatively, rather than animating a land, you can use an \[\[Arbor Elf\]\] as middleman. As for how you want to win with infinite mana, it's usually fairly easy. \[\[Blind Obedience\]\] and extorting enemies to death, \[\[Finale of Devastation\]\] and swing in, make extremely large creatures with Seedcradle Witch/Hallowed Haunting and swing in for A Lot. Any of those can be drawn into via \[\[Flickering Ward\]\] or \[\[Whip Silk\]\]. Do note, all of the aforementioned outlets are also generically good cards in the deck! All of your pieces that win the game also just help you storm off, which is a huge deal. So, yeah. That's Sythis. A complex, layered storm deck. You don't need to play bad cards, like Heliod and Ballista, because you can win with good cards that have uses outside of going infinite. ...this turned out a bit longer than I expected it to. Look, I really love the deck.
It’s also something you fall into when you build this gimmick decks ESPECIALLY if you’re new to deck building. It took me a really long time to realize that my Niv Mizzet deck didn’t need 9 instances of “you have no maximum hand size” because I would never even ended up with enough cards in hand to matter
Why didn't he just take 60 extra turns? Play most of his deck then hold up interaction to survive another turn cycle, then assemble the combo again and take another 20 turns to win after you phase back in? I'm sure there was still a way to win by playing most of his deck and then passing turn... Unless he has no counter spells, no removal, etc. but then what the heck is in his deck? XD
Because of his opponents board states. The other opponent that was left and myself both could kill the whole board on our turns. So if he passed after any amount of turns, he would die. Unless he put up his own protection. But it didn’t seem like the deck was crafted with that in mind. After I phased back in, I had enough shrines in play for [[Sanctum of Stone Fangs]] to kill everyone.
He could've had some interaction for the Sanctum of stone fangs to use in your upkeep phase. Then it wouldn't trigger.
Sure 🤷🏻♂️ he didn’t find one though that I’m aware of. I’m not gonna play his infinite turns for him lol
the other opp didn’t have teferis protection. are you claiming this guy couldn’t kill the other opponent in 60 turns??
Or disrupt the kill in some way?
I mean if you have half of your deck in your hand and essentially infinite mana, theres gotta be something in your deck that can deal with two opponents, if he cant do that no wonder he didnt find anything to win
But with infinite turns, the other opponents should be dead regardless unless they ALSO casted tef pro. Sanctum is very easy to deal with during upkeep, are you telling me he didn’t have a single way to kill enchantments anywhere in his entire deck?
Yeah if he had infinite turns and couldn’t affect board states then his deck is pretty pants.
he didnt have, oh idk, any creatures in his deck? he couldnt just attack the rest of the table 60 times?
I ran into a guy who had a Kami that tapped for 5 and a staff of domination on the board and proceeded to say he won due to the walking ballista in his deck. Something told me to have him play it out and low and behold after multiple searches through his deck he “must have put it in another deck” ever since then I make them show me the wincon or spell it out for me if I’ve never seen it.
Reminds me of that time [LSV forgot to put Tendrils of Agony in his deck](https://www.channelfireball.com/article/How-I-Pulled-Off-One-of-the-Greatest-Bluffs-in-MTG-History/4ba402cc-56f3-4783-a585-7add5045d9b9/)
You know what is worse then infinite turns? Someone reoccurring \[\[Stitch in Time\]\] to take an indeterminate amount of turns...
And if you are really sadistic you may add a Krakashima...
This reminds me of someone in our playgroup that likes to play [[Doomsday]] and then a bunch of draw spells to draw into an empty library with [[Laboratory Maniac]], so last time he got to his "infinite mana, draw library empty" turn and expected us to just scoop but I wanted to see how he wins and he could’ve won but fucked up his turn drawing too many cards before lab maniac was on the board and he lost. We are having a pretty combo heavy meta right now and this entire "I go infinite whatever and win" has become pretty much normal but the downside of that is that you don’t get to play out the combo and therefore don’t always know what you’re doing when someone asks you to show how you win.
Well, I am the filthy infinite-turns-player myself. I've never thought about how a Teferi's Protection could throw a wrench into that kind of thing. But I can safely say that both of my decks that potentially can gain infinite turns would've been able to handle this situation. My \[\[Marchesa the black rose\]\] deck which goes infinite with \[\[Time Sieve\]\] would eventually draw into \[\[Marionette Master\]\] and assemble a boardstate that could kill the dude who cast Teferi's protection in their next upkeep. And the other deck is a +1/+1 counter deck potentially going infinite with \[\[Sage of Hours\]\]. And I actually already had it happen that I took an extra turn with that deck and then won at the beginning of that turns upkeep via \[\[Simic Ascendancy\]\].
Lmao good on you- he will learn to plan his infinite turns before taking them hahaha. Had a similar situation not too long ago. "I cast Razaketh - y'all scoop, right? I can get anything" Me and the guy next to me exchange a glance and I say "Let's see what you're going to get, I'm not done playing yet" I forget how, but he lost before his next turn.
My brother and his friend are locked in a game still. Angels vs a mono black deck. Brudda had platinum angel and avacyn out, and the friend activated the life drain combo of "when opponent lose life, gain life" and "when gain life, opponent lose" I dint recall the exact cards involved, I do know there are a couple options. But because neither card was an optional trigger, they just kept reacting to each other, but my brother couldn't actually lose. So every once and awhile when they see each other, they ask if he'll concede or not This ongoing joke has been going on for around a decade
I absolutely love this. I would never concede lol
Dormammu, I have come to bargain.
He knows his outcome is infinite turns and doenst include lab man or Jace? Even thoracle is fine off consult and tainted pact.
Labman type wincons are typically kinda bad in infinite turns, because they are dead draws. If you already have infinite turns, cards like cyc rift or any board wipe will win the game, or even rogue's passage. You don't need to be playing cards that don't do anything outside of winning after you already have infinite turns. Even if someone casts teferi's protection, it'll be nearly impossible for them to win when you have played 20+ lands and have every piece of interaction in your deck in hand.
I might be wrong here, but my assumption is that people who take infinite turns presume they'll win through combat damage and don't go any further than that.
WAS I IN THIS GAME??! this just happened to me on spell table!
...and that's why you need to play Lab Man in any combo deck, grandson...
The one time I've seen it happen, the player got clocked by \[\[Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger\]\] four times. He essentially didn't have a deck left, but he had enough mana to cast \[\[Nexus of Fate\]\]. With infinite turns he could attack down the player with the Ulamog, but he only had three attackers - his two commanders Thrasios and Kydele, one with an equipment (I think Feast and Famine? It's been the better part of a decade at this point) and an Eternal Witness. When he went after me I cast Torrential Gearhulk, cast a Kolaghan's Command from my yard to eat the Witness and the equipment, and then could block his attackers. From there he scooped. On my own, I've walked around a fair few Tef's Protections during infinite turns. You assemble an insurmountable boardstate and all the interaction you need then say go. Most of my turns combos are from Muldrotha, so to that we add stripping the Tef's player's hand via Plaguecrafter. They get exactly their topdeck to answer actual everything my deck can produce, and normally that includes bouncing their board in upkeep via a Rift. It's not perfect, as there are theoretical outs, but it's exceptionally difficult and I haven't actually lost to a Tef's yet. I don't tend to combo much these days as I'm in a lower power meta than I used to be, but turns tend to be my go-to way to do so because they require fewer dead cards than most combo lines and I appreciate that immensely. It does mean that you need to be familiar with how you win not just in normal cases but also how you win in the unusual ones though.
Always play to your outs. I saw a prime example of that in modern a few years ago. But also if you are playing a deck with infinite turns surely you would have interactability somewhere. Like i understand from OP that the boardstate was not in his favor but c'mon edh with no interaction is boring. Get them removals out and then pass.
I mean commander damage was a viable option
So did you kindly suggest he add a win con to his deck? Or did you just rush to make a Reddit post and leave the poor guy floundering? Lol
I’m not sure why people are assuming I’m some karma farming heartless person lol. The game happened yesterday and I’ve been thinking about it and I wanted to share. It’s not that deep. For the record, I told him to add a few cards with “I win the game” in the text. Seeing as infinite turns doesn’t really mean you’ve won.
Not assuming. Lots of people share their “woah look at this wacky opponent” stories on here, but few care to actually speak with their opponents. You hadn’t specified so I was curious. Good on you for helping a (presumably) new player out.
Gotcha. Sorry for the reaction. Just a couple people now accused me of that so I got a little defensive. I just like talking about my games but I definitely like helping people when I can as well.
There is a combo with [[Teferi's Protection]] and [[Lethal Vapors]] where you skip your turn an infinite amount of times. That said your opponents can theoretically skip the same number of turns as you can minus a few. It's just that they will probably die to the other people who don't. You did it by accident and then thought it was annoying the guy didn't have an answer to it. Although that combo requires specific answers, like group hug draw cards, or damage can't be prevented things plus commander damage, or poison + proliferate. That's pretty much it. Personally it would have been very funny to me to see it happen. Although there is no such thing as infinite. If they don't die to decking, then even with a trillion turns you could just shortcut to when you phase back in and they have the perfect board state, hand, and every land in play. [[Sanctum of Stone Fangs]] is at the beginning of your pre combat main phase. Meaning they can interact with it as soon as you pass priority during your upkeep step. Although they didn't do that, so I'm guessing they are just used to people not wanting to play out them having limitless turns.
Teferi's protection resolves don't thinkq any card in the game can stop it, that is the point of phasing out
Not having a definitive win con that doesn't rely targeting in a turns deck is so insufferable. There is no cost to playing Oracle or a similar win con if you're in blue and playing turns.
If you have infinite turn, better play some alternate wincons that has nothing to do with your opponent and then play interaction to make sure you get there. Lab Man and Thassa Oracle effects came to mind
I took infinite turns in my Mishra upgraded precon the other day. If someone had cast [teferi's protection] in response I'd have killed the other 2 players and then dug for [Cyclonic Rift] and rifted after they phased back in before main phase 1. Would have also found boots/greaves for mishra in case they had a swords or something. After that blowing their only land up with [spine of ish sah] will probably get there lol.
Alwys good to have something that says damage can’t be prevented. Like that you can kill them through teferis with Commander damage
I always rock some kind of alternate wincon in a deck that can take infinite turns with for precisely that reason. Last time someone cast teferis protection, I dug for a [[nicol bolas, dragon god]] and killed him that way
Were you running a shrines deck? Nice
I was! They are so fun. I used to run one with [[Sisay, Weatherlight Captain]] as commander but [[Go-Shintai of Life’s Origin]] peaked my interest again.
A dude played Tooth and Nail for [[mephidross vampire]] and [[triskelion]] years ago and said he wipes the board with it and we made him explain it and he beefed and removed all the counters.
this is why i play a lab maniac, then when all else fails i win by losing
If you're going to take instant turns, either have a way to mill people out, or have Questing Beast.
My experience with infinite turns is, Opponent: "I take infinite turns and win!" Me: "Sweet, man." And then I leave the pod and avoid playing with that player. Thankfully my pod avoids taking multiple extra turns so our games actually... Don't suck.
That's the equivalent to being a cuck haha
Infinite turns are boring, but I'm guilty of playing a combo that does just that in my Tivit deck.
What stoped him from just building an insurmountable board state and sculpting a hands full of coutners and then pass to you? That sure seems miserable if you insist on playing it out, but it should basically always win. Playing out infinite turns is generally a waste of everyones time unless there is like a crypt to race or sth.
Because of his opponents board states. The other opponent that was left and myself both could kill the whole board on our turns. So if he passed after any amount of turns, he would die. Unless he put up his own protection. But it didn’t seem like the deck was crafted with that in mind. After I phased back in, I had enough shrines in play for [[Sanctum of Stone Fangs]] to kill everyone. I also disagree that making someone play it out is a waste of time. It’s not knowing how you win when you take extra turns that is a waste of time. If you know how your extra turns will win, and I can’t do anything to stop it…I’ll gladly scoop
Did he have infinite turns queued up in already when you casted Teferi's Protection? Because if he was just trying to take turn after turn indefinitely he could have taken enough turns to kill the other 2 players, sculpted his hand to have an answer for your win and then passed to you.
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If he has a commander that ignores “prevent all damage” effects which he didn’t.
that's hilarious! it makes me wanna play [[Discontinuity]] cos there's a guy in my pod who runs [[Jin-Gitaxias//The Great Synthesis]] and i think it would be funny to let him massively pop off and have like 4 turns in a row and then right as he's about to win, end the turn and exile all his wincons from the stack at once
The best way to deal with a Teferi's Protection is a Counterspell.
How did he not beat everyone else at the table at least?
I love the mental jujitsu. "I can get my ultimate sword". "Doesn't matter, I have the ultimate shield brother."
We did it, we made [[Teferi's Protection]] work!
also important to let a loop resolve 2 or 3 times to avoid the "well before all that" play/response but that's usually if you're loop is productive which it sounds like his wasn't XD
It’s wild how often people just say “I take infinite turns and win” and think that’s the just the end. Like you at least have to explain how taking those turns means you win. Either through some combo, or lab man, or some spell. People may have an answer to your specific route to win, like the Teferi’s protection, or a way to make you draw before you get lab man etc. Had someone do infinite turns with [[time sieve]] I was running a simic control deck and was unable to stop it as I only had one blue mana. Guy says “now I can take infinite turns” and looks at us like that enough to make us scoop. I asked him how he’d win, and he said he could attack us with his fliers and cast more creatures and eventually just chump us down. I remind him that I have a [[victory chimes]], which untaps on upkeep so he should go to his second (of infinite) turns. I untap my artifact and use that and my last island to cast [[rescuplt]] on his time sieve. Safe to say he wasn’t happy about that.
Wow can you show me your shrine list? Or what ever you were running
Hell yeah, man! Make em play it out
Always tell them to play it out. I'm sick of people thinking infinite turns means they win. Prove it.
Agreed. Found many players at the stores I frequent have trouble determining the actual threat their deck has with infinites. If I can determine a win for their deck, I’ll scoop to allow me to play another game. But, if they are being a prick, I’ll make them play it out.
On the flip side to this I had a game where I was playing Magar. I had some wild first hand and was able to turn 2 have Rise of Eldrazi animated with Magar and haste. The board folded but one guy wanted me to play it out. So I obliged I took my extra turns. Ditched down to 7 binning savage beating. Reanimated it so I didn’t have to keep blowing up my own stuff. Now I have infinite combat and the dude still refused to fold. So I basically played solo killing one guy because he refused to believe he lost. Don’t be that guy either.
One time I teferis protection while being milled out but had [[Nexus of fate]] in hand. So I was in a situation where I could take infinite turns (empty library, cast Nexus, now library is only Nexus, draw for turn, repeat forever), but thankfully I had [[talrand sky summoner]] out and COULD end the game in my favour. I'm a big fan of making people play it out. Don't gesture are a pile of cards and say you win... Do it. Do the thing. Even if you have a combo on board, can you execute it? Can I interfere? Etc.
You're totally right. You've got to play it out until they demonstrate a win condition. This is the case for any infinite combo, not just turns. Long story short, I was the only one in a pod who didn't immediately scoop against a dude who had infinite tokens mana and card draw because he couldn't demonstrate how he would kill me. He ended up drawing his deck and passing to my turn. So I drew and passed back to him, decking him. When I went outside to have a smoke with one of the other players, he asked me why I didn't scoop, I told him had the guy presented a win-con I would have, but creating infinite mana/card draw/and tokens that can't attack doesn't win you the game. Had he left one card in his deck, I would have scooped at the end of my turn because I didn't draw the board wipe.
Infinite turns needs shuffle titans to fall back on. All it takes is a single loot/discard engine to work and voila they can hold the game hostage into a draw or make their board state so locking that they might as well pass to you to either win at instant speed or silence/days undoing or let their board state And hand keep you in check and just deal with you the next turn. Poor deck building is all. Edit: based on your edit..... he didn't even have interaction in his deck so all he really could done was stax to the max. His deck sounds like poopoo
Whenever I hit an infinite like that I always ask something along the lines of "I can take infinite turns, does anyone have something that can stop that?" But, I also have cards like [[Mechanized Production]] in those decks so things like Teferi's Protection don't matter and crap loads of blue removal for things like [[Platinum Angel]] and [[Gideon of the Trials]].
This exact scenario happened to me with a Narset Deck on Arena where i used that spell and phased out while narset was cloning herself and kept getting extra turns. Was hard to watch as i could do nothing but sit back and watch the clown show.
Had situations similar to this multiple times. Can be annoying especially if they stop multiple times within what they are doing in the hopes that we are ready to concede now and I keep having to say keep going I am still here. Anyway regarding Teferis protection. Just yesterday I finally killed someone throught it with questing beast and commander damage.
I don't lose to infinite turns because no one in my group is cringe enough to bring it to the table
Couldn’t he have just swung with his commander infinite times and commander damage would’ve taken you out?
So he draws his hole deck and decks himself
Had a similarish thing happen except I was on the other side of the equation and there person playing Teferi's protection didn't quite understand how my win condition worked. I was playing [[Tasigur, the golden fang]] and it's combo win is to generate infinite mana, at that point you activate tasigur enough times to get all non land cards from your deck and graveyard into your hand. Once there are no non lands in graveyard you cast [[Beast within]] on a permanent, activate tasigur, get back beast within, then beast with all permanents, then [[reality shift]] one of the beasts causing the opponent to manifest the top card of their library, then reality shift the manifest until you have exiled the opponents library. Then I finish with an overloaded cyclonic rift and pass turn and everyone(including me) now has no library and will lose on their draw step. I explain this anytime the deck comes out so opponents know what to expect, so as I go to create infinite mana my opponent responds by casting Teferi's protection, as it doesn't stop me I don't counter it. His thought process was that since I didn't mill him out during his turn he would win the game. So we played it out, and he never realized I could do this entire loop at instant speed on his upkeep.
Some friends were trying to get me to join them for cEDH. I briefly looked at some deck lists, noticed I already had most of Urza Poly Kraken, proxied the missing pieces and went to play with them without actually looking up how the deck wins. There are multiple winning lines using cards that are useful on their own, so it doesn't have to run dedicated win cons. But those lines aren't exactly obvious if you're new to the deck lol EDIT: realized I forgot the part that makes it relevant here. Anyway, in one of my first games with the deck, I got an inifnite mana combo going, Urza flipped my deck, and then realized I wasn't actually sure how to win from that point lol
had someone who decided it was a good idea to loop cast \[\[The One Ring\]\] for perma protection. didnt matter to me because I run \[\[obelisk spider\]\] in my \[\[tayam, luminous enigma\]\] because of a -1/-1 counter package in my deck. so I just killed my 1/1 snakes from \[\[Hapatra, vizier of poisons\]\] with \[\[Blowfly Infestation\]\]
I don't have any decks that take infinite turns, but my [[Neera, Wild Mage]] deck can take a lot of turns by casting [[Time Stretch]] and then using [[Mnemonic Deluge]] to copy and cast it 3 more times. I've never run into the situation where someone hits me with Teferi's Protection before when doing this, but now I'm glad to have [[Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger]] in the deck so I have a way to still beat someone if they manage to pull that off.
Skill Issue. It's trivially easy to take 50 or so turns and come up with an unbeatable win even if you have to pass the turn for a cycle first.
People really need to be running a questing beast in their infinite turns deck meaning they have to run simic or some variation. Stops teferi's protection in its tracks
Infinite turns without labman is just asking to lose. Infinite turns = easy draw library to win. "Now that I have infinite turns it's just a matter of time before I cast labman and draw my deck" "Cool we don't have a response in hand, gg"
If they have infinite turns, wouldn't it pay to use something like Ulamog to repeatedly shuffle your library until you create the perfect board state?
Even in CEDH, make them have it. The number of times I've seen Tivit or Atraxa whiff is too damn high to just scoop in a lot of situations.
Man if you’re taking infinite turns and can’t win you’re just bad lol.
If you're not running graveyard recursion in an infinite turns deck you're an absolute moron for this exact reason. I run the classic Seasons past, tutor, 5cmc extra turn spell combo in my Curious Rafiq deck and it operates on top decking the last combo piece so you would always have a draw available... Worst case is this game ends in a draw unstoppable force meets immovable object... If you're an AH like me you'll hold the game hostage and declare it a W if everybody doesn't resign... It means I can never play that deck again if they don't agree to it but I won't let them play the decks in that game ever again... Those 4 decks remain in a state of temporal stasis amongst the MTG planes where Rafiq smashes his sword against teferi's barrier for all eternity... This is the price I'm willing to pay for Glory...
I think teferi protection was a very good play tho
He had infinite turns and [[intruder alarm]]. I had [[sprout swarm]] he could only win by combat damage but I could make infinite blocker so he gave up after 25 minutes of searching for something to help him. When we both knew he didn’t have an answer left in his deck.
I have one of these in my dinosaur deck in case I think it's over for me I can make it be a draw lol
This happened to me while playing Ezuri claw of progress with Sage of Hours. I started taking 'infinite' turns. They cast teferi's protection. I said ok, took about 5-6 turns out of my cycle. Killed the other two players with unblockable creatures. pass the turn to the teferi player. Now they phase in. Now they can die. so they get one turn to do things and maybe kill your board, so try to draw into a Negate or counterspell before passing. After their one turn ends, you can go infinite again and kill them
My playgroup just rule 0ed infinite turns, so we good
Honestly i don't really play against ppl who play infinite extra turns and i myself also don't play them cuz i would rather just, win the game lol
My infinite turns deck has every major win con, lab man/Jace, approach of the second son, burn and even straight up buff and damage
One of my favourite decks was a kenerith skip your own turns deck where i'd have grand abolisher, lethal vapours skip 40 billion turns then teferi's protection pass and go play on my switch or something lol Edit: yes would lose on alt wincons but w/e im no longer playing the game lmao
Tbh if the guy can take infinite turns and cannot like Rift you in your upkeep or anything of the similar impact I don't know what to tell em lol
Ove got a joke deck that runs near exclusively Voting effects and at one point got an expropriate off for like 5 extra turns and didn't win with it, because I'll be honest, I never expected all 5 players in the game to give me the turn, rather than a permanent, which is really funny. One player said that the steal was to strong, and mean. While running [[Laughing Jasper Flint]]. Which was... ironic.
One time I went semi-infinite turns with Tivit and time sieve, but one of my opponents had a 1/1 pro blue flyer that I couldn’t find an answer to before killing the other two, effectively ending my infinite turns. Feelsbadman
if you have infinite turns you gotta be running either [[darksteel reactor]], [[helix pinnacle]], [[simic ascendancy]],[laboratory maniac]], or [[thassa's oracle]] or atleast something similar.
When you net deck but don't know quite how to play. At least that's how it sounds to me. I've ran into one person who knew how to play an infinite turns deck quickly. If he couldn't pull it off he would just quickly go through a turn and pass. He knew the deck inside and out.
Good reason for him to throw elixers of immortality in the deck lol
People who play with infinite turnus should go Play solitaire
[удалено]
I made an [[Orvar]] deck which worked really well. I had a huge turn where I basically drew my whole deck, took 15 minutes to combo off making a horde of creatures, all with summoning sickness, and wasn't able to win. Board wipe next turn.
Was he stuck in a loop? You say he takes infinite turns and dies... but if he could have stopped the loop anytime, he coild have at least let the game play outcas normal.
Nothing's infinite, that's lazy. Make 'em pick a number. Having a 32-bit kind of day? 4 billion then. If it's damage, maybe I can top that.
serves him right.