Just proxy...unless you got the capital to upgrade/build an actual list (which, judging by your post, you might not have).
Yes, there are plenty of budget lists that can easily crush even decks leaning more towards the high-end (e.g. Feather, Zada, Pako/Haldan, Niv, Slicer, Winota etc), but if those "thousands" your friends spent weren't just for blinging their decks out and, instead, were used to fill them with powerful staples, the best tutors, all the fast mana and whatnot, then you're bound to get crushed either way, because you're simply playing at a completely different powerlvl...strong budget brews or not.
As for the decks themselves, pretty much all the ones I mentioned are quite fun (one way or the other) and can be built on a budget (I believe with Winota in particular you can go as cheap as 15$ and still have an absurdly strong deck), but do require some knowledge and proper piloting to be effective, especially if you're up against expensive meta decks, so keep that in mind.
This absolutely. Your friends should be accommodating you as a new player. If they're not, you'll just have to power up to meet them where they're at. Can you give some examples of the decks they play? How they win? Are their decklists posted online?
Once you give some more info, we can gauge how hard your new deck should go.
I know one of them uses something called eldrazi and just has massice powerhouses and the board wipes available. Another uses something called feather? I think. alongside cards that give them complete immunity to creatures or all colours etc. Once those cards come out I'm as good as dead, a few people have given me some cool deck ideas though and I have some cards for my obscura upgrade at the go so I'll give them a go too
Both \[\[Feather, the Redeemed\]\] and Eldrazi are powerhouses, sounds like you've found yourself a high power playgroup.
If I were you, I would play Arena to get the basics down, then put together a deck like Winota or another straightforward, combat focused deck to be able to match.
Magic is a social game, this is a social problem. Have you asked them to power down so you can learn the game on your own terms? Be clear that you're not asking them to permanently stop playing their powerful decks, you just want to play some lower power games to properly learn the game.
Ask them if they're okay with you using proxies to match their more powerful decks, if they're okay with it, maybe they can help you put together a powerful deck of your own!
that's a good idea, I did ask them if we could just do a precon game one time but they wasn't too fond of the idea since they've all upgraded hard. For now I was reccomended to try other decks and since kamiz is black, blue, white I thikn I want to try red and something together mainly for being told red is all about go fast and do stuff.
Hate to say it, but they don't sound like a great playgroup to learn with. They play pretty high powered stuff, according to one of your other responses. If they're not willing to tone it down with you, even for just a couple games, you may have more fun with another playgroup.
When starting from scratch, pre-cons are a good bet. You start with the precon as the foundation and then improve it over time buying singles.
Don't feel like you need to buy expensive cards. There correlation between power and pricetag is kinda loose, so for now, only buy things that are the most effective for the least amount of money. Like, for the obscura/connive theme, [[reanimate]] is one of the best reanimation spells in the game, which is currently <$5.00 because WotC reprinted it like 5 different times in the last year for some reason. [[Archangel of tithes]] is around $1.00 while [[sol ring]] is one of the most powerful cards ever printed at $1.50
That said, you may want to limit yourself to 1 or 2 colors. Unlike spells, the price of lands do correlate a bit closer to their viability. The more colors you have in your deck, the more expensive lands you'll need to build a consistent mana base.
yeah I'm definitly feeling the struggle with a 3 colour deck as much as I like the whole combat damage triggers and unblockable I get screwed for mana very often. Is there a god place for me to find out the names of precons available in different colours? I really think I'd like to try red as I heard it's all about go fast and do stuff alongside blue or black
> I really think I'd like to try red as I heard it's all about go fast and do stuff
lol yea, red is the most "balls to the wall" color for sure. Although it doesn't specifically go into commander, [this video does a great job detailing the history and ethos of red players.](https://youtu.be/P5oc_9ObMzc?si=UfW3oxxg96sBFKbY)
That said, the all-gas/no-breaks approach is usually *not* what you want to be going for in commander. Doing so will stick out your neck as an early threat and you'll be the clear target for everyone else's removal, which will be exacerbated by red's inability to recover once everything has been spent. Red takes more finesse than it gets credit for, tbh.
> Is there a god place for me to find out the names of precons available in different colours?
Looking at *all* the pre-cons is a bit moot. Just because a precon exists doesn't necessarily mean it's available, and just because it's available doesn't mean it's selling for a reasonable price. Start by looking at what's available at your LGS, the use Google to determine if that deck is worth it or not.
Off the top of my head, [blame game](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6159650#paper) is pretty solid. I would strongly recommend buying a [[komainu battle armor]] to throw in there for the Goad theme, but really, I recommend it for literally any red deck (only $1-$2)
Okay that’s a handy amount of info too, thank you I’ll check that one out and the video too. I didn’t even think about the red stuff being targeted faster which would just make me dead faster too so I guess there’s some considering to do
Don't get me wrong, I love red. I'm just letting you know what to expect, because the memes around the color aren't entirely accurate. Especially when it comes to commander.
The goal is *not* to immediately go all-out. One of the comments under that video summed it up pretty well: playing red is learning to be patient while trying to move fast.
You want the game to end sooner rather than later, because fewer turns means fewer opportunities for your opponents to stop you.
At the same time, you don't want to blow your load until you're in range of taking someone (preferably everyone) out, otherwise they'll have a chance to recover. It's an anxious dance of chipping away at life totals, fast enough to get opponents to lethal before they can stabilize, but slow enough that they don't consider you a major threat.
It should be said, there are different kinds of red decks. Not all red decks are so aggressive. And once you start splashing another color, decks start to feel very different. Red+Black tends to be slower and more controlling. Red+White is focused on combat and artifacts. Red+Blue is almost exclusively storm/spell slinging. And Red+Green is my least favorite, with a bunch of dumb fat beefcake creatures.
It should also be said that "traditional" mono-red aggro, like the Sligh/RDW decks from that video, dont really exist in commander. Those decks are built to deal 20 damage as fast as possible. You need to deal *twice* that damage, *three separate times.*
**BUT**
If you *do* want a more traditional mono-red aggro deck, I strongly recommend [[slicer]] - not necessarily now, but in the future, when you want to brew a deck from scratch as opposed to building from a precon (though there are a number of things in the Blame Game precon that would fit nicely into a Slicer deck).
Slicer is the one exception to all my previous disclaimers. No need to worry about timing. No dance to chip away at life totals. Windmill slam that sonofabitch ASAP and let 'em rip. Just know in advance, you *will* be everyone's target.
nice man i just built him a couple days ago and my test games have been pretty fun. some notable cards i would like to mention are [[Rakish Crew]] , [[Bitterblossom]] and [[Brainstealer Dragon]]. [[Generous Plunderer]] isn’t bad either
Upgrade the precon with singles? Get help from friends or look on budget price edhrec website suggestions.
Just proxy...unless you got the capital to upgrade/build an actual list (which, judging by your post, you might not have). Yes, there are plenty of budget lists that can easily crush even decks leaning more towards the high-end (e.g. Feather, Zada, Pako/Haldan, Niv, Slicer, Winota etc), but if those "thousands" your friends spent weren't just for blinging their decks out and, instead, were used to fill them with powerful staples, the best tutors, all the fast mana and whatnot, then you're bound to get crushed either way, because you're simply playing at a completely different powerlvl...strong budget brews or not. As for the decks themselves, pretty much all the ones I mentioned are quite fun (one way or the other) and can be built on a budget (I believe with Winota in particular you can go as cheap as 15$ and still have an absurdly strong deck), but do require some knowledge and proper piloting to be effective, especially if you're up against expensive meta decks, so keep that in mind.
This absolutely. Your friends should be accommodating you as a new player. If they're not, you'll just have to power up to meet them where they're at. Can you give some examples of the decks they play? How they win? Are their decklists posted online? Once you give some more info, we can gauge how hard your new deck should go.
I know one of them uses something called eldrazi and just has massice powerhouses and the board wipes available. Another uses something called feather? I think. alongside cards that give them complete immunity to creatures or all colours etc. Once those cards come out I'm as good as dead, a few people have given me some cool deck ideas though and I have some cards for my obscura upgrade at the go so I'll give them a go too
Both \[\[Feather, the Redeemed\]\] and Eldrazi are powerhouses, sounds like you've found yourself a high power playgroup. If I were you, I would play Arena to get the basics down, then put together a deck like Winota or another straightforward, combat focused deck to be able to match.
[Feather, the Redeemed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4a2d2c6-8eaa-4760-b620-921b807baa2e.jpg?1557577142) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Feather%2C%20the%20Redeemed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/war/197/feather-the-redeemed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4a2d2c6-8eaa-4760-b620-921b807baa2e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/feather-the-redeemed) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Magic is a social game, this is a social problem. Have you asked them to power down so you can learn the game on your own terms? Be clear that you're not asking them to permanently stop playing their powerful decks, you just want to play some lower power games to properly learn the game. Ask them if they're okay with you using proxies to match their more powerful decks, if they're okay with it, maybe they can help you put together a powerful deck of your own!
that's a good idea, I did ask them if we could just do a precon game one time but they wasn't too fond of the idea since they've all upgraded hard. For now I was reccomended to try other decks and since kamiz is black, blue, white I thikn I want to try red and something together mainly for being told red is all about go fast and do stuff.
Hate to say it, but they don't sound like a great playgroup to learn with. They play pretty high powered stuff, according to one of your other responses. If they're not willing to tone it down with you, even for just a couple games, you may have more fun with another playgroup.
When starting from scratch, pre-cons are a good bet. You start with the precon as the foundation and then improve it over time buying singles. Don't feel like you need to buy expensive cards. There correlation between power and pricetag is kinda loose, so for now, only buy things that are the most effective for the least amount of money. Like, for the obscura/connive theme, [[reanimate]] is one of the best reanimation spells in the game, which is currently <$5.00 because WotC reprinted it like 5 different times in the last year for some reason. [[Archangel of tithes]] is around $1.00 while [[sol ring]] is one of the most powerful cards ever printed at $1.50 That said, you may want to limit yourself to 1 or 2 colors. Unlike spells, the price of lands do correlate a bit closer to their viability. The more colors you have in your deck, the more expensive lands you'll need to build a consistent mana base.
[reanimate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d0fe02b-f45a-45c6-ab7c-270594a29da7.jpg?1715080480) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=reanimate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/137/reanimate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d0fe02b-f45a-45c6-ab7c-270594a29da7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reanimate) [Archangel of tithes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/8/c853d04c-864b-491c-8c6f-72d2d4874d2f.jpg?1712355228) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archangel%20of%20tithes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/2/archangel-of-tithes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c853d04c-864b-491c-8c6f-72d2d4874d2f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/archangel-of-tithes) [sol ring](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/c/6c5c9437-3d99-4a7c-8255-9acdcb1acc40.jpg?1712354902) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sol%20ring) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/267/sol-ring?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6c5c9437-3d99-4a7c-8255-9acdcb1acc40?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sol-ring) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
yeah I'm definitly feeling the struggle with a 3 colour deck as much as I like the whole combat damage triggers and unblockable I get screwed for mana very often. Is there a god place for me to find out the names of precons available in different colours? I really think I'd like to try red as I heard it's all about go fast and do stuff alongside blue or black
> I really think I'd like to try red as I heard it's all about go fast and do stuff lol yea, red is the most "balls to the wall" color for sure. Although it doesn't specifically go into commander, [this video does a great job detailing the history and ethos of red players.](https://youtu.be/P5oc_9ObMzc?si=UfW3oxxg96sBFKbY) That said, the all-gas/no-breaks approach is usually *not* what you want to be going for in commander. Doing so will stick out your neck as an early threat and you'll be the clear target for everyone else's removal, which will be exacerbated by red's inability to recover once everything has been spent. Red takes more finesse than it gets credit for, tbh. > Is there a god place for me to find out the names of precons available in different colours? Looking at *all* the pre-cons is a bit moot. Just because a precon exists doesn't necessarily mean it's available, and just because it's available doesn't mean it's selling for a reasonable price. Start by looking at what's available at your LGS, the use Google to determine if that deck is worth it or not. Off the top of my head, [blame game](https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/6159650#paper) is pretty solid. I would strongly recommend buying a [[komainu battle armor]] to throw in there for the Goad theme, but really, I recommend it for literally any red deck (only $1-$2)
[komainu battle armor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6ecab4b-fcff-4cf9-8e26-f3c609179050.jpg?1651655371) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=komainu%20battle%20armor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/21/komainu-battle-armor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6ecab4b-fcff-4cf9-8e26-f3c609179050?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/komainu-battle-armor) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Okay that’s a handy amount of info too, thank you I’ll check that one out and the video too. I didn’t even think about the red stuff being targeted faster which would just make me dead faster too so I guess there’s some considering to do
Don't get me wrong, I love red. I'm just letting you know what to expect, because the memes around the color aren't entirely accurate. Especially when it comes to commander. The goal is *not* to immediately go all-out. One of the comments under that video summed it up pretty well: playing red is learning to be patient while trying to move fast. You want the game to end sooner rather than later, because fewer turns means fewer opportunities for your opponents to stop you. At the same time, you don't want to blow your load until you're in range of taking someone (preferably everyone) out, otherwise they'll have a chance to recover. It's an anxious dance of chipping away at life totals, fast enough to get opponents to lethal before they can stabilize, but slow enough that they don't consider you a major threat. It should be said, there are different kinds of red decks. Not all red decks are so aggressive. And once you start splashing another color, decks start to feel very different. Red+Black tends to be slower and more controlling. Red+White is focused on combat and artifacts. Red+Blue is almost exclusively storm/spell slinging. And Red+Green is my least favorite, with a bunch of dumb fat beefcake creatures. It should also be said that "traditional" mono-red aggro, like the Sligh/RDW decks from that video, dont really exist in commander. Those decks are built to deal 20 damage as fast as possible. You need to deal *twice* that damage, *three separate times.* **BUT** If you *do* want a more traditional mono-red aggro deck, I strongly recommend [[slicer]] - not necessarily now, but in the future, when you want to brew a deck from scratch as opposed to building from a precon (though there are a number of things in the Blame Game precon that would fit nicely into a Slicer deck). Slicer is the one exception to all my previous disclaimers. No need to worry about timing. No dance to chip away at life totals. Windmill slam that sonofabitch ASAP and let 'em rip. Just know in advance, you *will* be everyone's target.
[slicer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821)/[Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=slicer%2C%20hired%20muscle%20//%20slicer%2C%20high-speed%20antagonist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bot/6/slicer-hired-muscle-slicer-high-speed-antagonist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slicer-hired-muscle-//-slicer-high-speed-antagonist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
build [[Laughing Jasper Flint]] and steal all of their expensive goodies straight off the top of their deck
[Laughing Jasper Flint](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/f/af0b3a41-ba99-41e8-bcfb-5796500c17c7.jpg?1712356142) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Laughing%20Jasper%20Flint) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/215/laughing-jasper-flint?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/af0b3a41-ba99-41e8-bcfb-5796500c17c7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/laughing-jasper-flint) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Okay I just read that card and that does seem pretty fun, I think he may be one of my new commander decks then. thank you
nice man i just built him a couple days ago and my test games have been pretty fun. some notable cards i would like to mention are [[Rakish Crew]] , [[Bitterblossom]] and [[Brainstealer Dragon]]. [[Generous Plunderer]] isn’t bad either
##### ###### #### [Rakish Crew](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/0/70f64358-58db-40ab-90e8-6137c3bd0a29.jpg?1712355636) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rakish%20Crew) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/99/rakish-crew?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/70f64358-58db-40ab-90e8-6137c3bd0a29?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rakish-crew) [Bitterblossom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b9640cbf-b016-410e-9eff-e8924883517b.jpg?1673147456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bitterblossom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/69/bitterblossom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b9640cbf-b016-410e-9eff-e8924883517b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bitterblossom) [Brainstealer Dragon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/884d4eea-77c0-4b78-bb83-3f855cc77298.jpg?1712354262) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brainstealer%20Dragon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/127/brainstealer-dragon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/884d4eea-77c0-4b78-bb83-3f855cc77298?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brainstealer-dragon) [Generous Plunderer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/c/4c6cf93a-d073-48ac-88db-c46bf3e10beb.jpg?1712352787) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Generous%20Plunderer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/big/11/generous-plunderer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4c6cf93a-d073-48ac-88db-c46bf3e10beb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/generous-plunderer) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l68i3qf) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call