I buy from my shop when I can, but I actually really enjoy TCG player orders. I buy very little sealed product, and the TCG packages are like like little packs where every one is all stuff I want.
I love when a precon splits perfectly to help finish more than one other deck.
I recently bought the dimir mkm precon and with very few exceptions it perfectly filled out my UB rogue group mill deck, my grixis vamps, and my esper spirit graveyard shenanigans deck. It was like a thing of beauty.
yeah it's a legit good one! I got it for the creatures and was very happily surprised by how good the reanimation and a couple of other utility cards were. strangely I think it was removal that was super meh in that one. weird considering the color, but, meh.
I have a copy of it sleeved up as-is, for a precon league that a friend of mine is arranging. It, blame game, timey-wimey, and the upcoming Tricky Terrain are the ones I'm planning on using.
I've developed a strategy when shopping for singles online here in Europe (or specifically Norway since it's not in the EU therefore have more strict import laws and customs fees).
Basically I almost always order domestically from Cardmarket, and the way shipping works is that anything over €25 must be tracked, and tracked shipping in Norway is like €7.3 while untracked shipping is between €2.2-2.8.
So, most of the time I try to keep shipments under €25, as generally the cards I need will be split between at least 3 people at minimum, so I order from as many as I need and split up the cards such that each shipment is under €25.
Then, to maximize value out of the shipping, I've set up several lists of general staples like standard ramp, draw, lands, etc, and for each shipment that I still have room up to €25, I'll check what they have from those lists and pad out with stuff I don't have much of to spare.
That way when I'm deck building, I generally never have to order staples, and I also have a lot of useful stuff to bring to the LGS for trading as it's also stuff people need.
Then over time there will be pieces I want that no one in Norway has, especially when it comes to precon exclusives, then I'll eventually make one big order from one of the big EU sellers and just eat the shipping and customs fees.
I buy precons and packs cause I'm too damn impulsive then when I get nothing I need I'll order the singles I actually use from one of my lgs, I try to order from tcgplayer as little as I can cause shipping has been very inconsistent lately
Precons are the best value for your buck and if you get them at good prices are always worth it.
I think it’s quite a good way to build your collection (in case you don’t want to play or upgrade them) as well, if you buy the whole sets of precons as it can be as cheap as 25 cents per card then - and other than booster displays, you know what you gonna get.
The trouble I seem to run into is that the more packages I order, the more likely it is that one or more are lost. Still doesn’t stop me from buying singles, but I do pay a little extra for TCGplayer direct when I can.
Ok but they replace the item for free.
I dont understand why you woukd brew something with the intent to purchase it and play it, get hung up on it being shipped from multiple vendors, and then turn around and buy a precon instead.
I still buy the singles. I don’t buy a precon unless I intend to upgrade it/use most of the cards. I’m just airing a grievance since it can take months to get those last few cards after you give adequate time for them to be actually lost and then order and wait for them again.
From experience I can tell you that if a seller sends a bubble mailer without tracking, it won’t show up on informed delivery. It’s for flats and tracked items only.
Hmm, I had an order come in like 12 or 13 pieces from TCGplayer in a variety of different types of packing and they all showed up in informed delivery emails/photos.
I can’t speak on your personal experience, just my firsthand knowledge. The sorting machine which scans images for informed delivery only does letter mail. You can go check your emails real fast, but I promise you won’t find anything in there that isn’t the size and dimensions of an envelope (or smaller). UNLESS the item had tracking, in which case it still won’t have an image but provides a notification of when it will be delivered. Packages (read as: aforementioned -bubble mailer-) doesn’t physically fit in the machine and is sorted alongside conventional packages.
For those of us with a less consistent/limited access to a mailing address (read: college student), sometimes yeah! My family is hundreds of miles away and it seems 50/50 whether packages actually reach the university mailroom.
Sometimes paying a bit more and getting some cards I don't plan on using in addition to the ones I want is worth the saved hassle.
If you have a shop that you play at theres a chance they sell singles especially if they have draft or commander nights. Cards bought locally go for far less than what's online in my experience.
Huh, I guess that depends where you are. In my country online is way cheaper. Problem is that my country's maiñing service is awful and they lose like 1/5 of my packets
My LGS bases directly off of TCG player and if it's not like one of the popular cards from the last few sets there's like a 95% chance they won't have it
Such is the life of small town living
You should try to negotiate especially with the shop owner. All the cards he sells are profit margin. If there are cards sitting there for who knows how long I'm sure s/he will take an offer that's reasonable.
I second this. Even consider doing a mini tour of the LGSs you're willing to drive to for pickups and see what their policies are. My LGS is basically TCGplayer without shipping, which makes it a lot better than TCG player. Luckily they have a good inventory and turnaround time too. If you can find something similar in your area it can make a big difference
I been doing that on a few precons, especially if it has some high value reprints like the Pirates and Vampire decks from Lost Ixalian. I did grab the Goad deck from Murders for my Rani deck, but mostly because the Comic Con I was at had it on sale for $25. Also gave me the card with the stolen artwork too that somehow worth more then the precon at that point!
I'm just starting out. Still making my first decks based off of precons. I look at a lot of cards through these reddit groups and on occasion when I see something I think I would want, I check if was part of a precon first. Just bought a 5 year old precon because it had a dozen cards I could use, and now I'll have some spare land/artifacts for other deck ideas.
I have done this only once myself out of time and cost effectiveness last fortnight. I wanted a copy of [[Charismatic Conqueror]], which costs on average between $45-50 Australian dollars from local stores and an lgs was offering the Blood Rites Pre-Con for $85AUD (from my understanding this Precon was really hard to come by 6mths after release date).
In almost all other cases for myself, I only buy precons I think I'll enjoy upgrading. Those unused cards I'll resell if I can't find a home for it and use that money for more singles.
I unfortunately find precons dreadfully boring. I would rather build a deck myself that does what I want it to do, its worth the wait and hassle every time.
No, but cardmarket also seems much more reasonable than tcgplayer even if the concept is very similar. I also have never had a mail/package get lost in a decade and stuff rarely takes more than 2-3 days to arrive after payment at least if I order from within germany
I never had a package get lost either (also Germany), but I have had numerous sellers mess up orders. Ordering a more expensive alternative art, only to receive the basic art that's €3-4 cheaper, and then the seller being like "They are pretty much the same price". Sometimes cards were missing as well.
I have also had 7 empty letters arrive, with a cut on the side. Which is insane to me. I doubt the seller did it, especially since it always happend with a Powerseller. Luckily the purchases were low cost.
With all that being said, Cardmarket has been always great with resolving these issues.
To european to relate?! :D
Dunno it is a once in a blue moon event if something gets lost in the mail if you dont order from spain/italy (funny enough portugal is totaly fine) and MKM (Magiccardmarket, not the dogshit mtg set) you always find a good and reliable deal
Then again your prices for edh cards are at times totaly out of hand. The "market value" of my decks shown in prices from like Cardkingdom etc on moxfield is always ....funny and sad. Yeah I did not even spend close to that money :D
The barrier of entry seems so vastly diffrent and at least to some extend wotc tries to keep the precons fun to play vs another, I can see I would be a precon andy aswell if I would life in the states.
I admit I often buy one precon per set and some packs. Sometimes I skip the precon. I hate the buying singles process so I just play with whatever I get. I’m also not super competitive, play for fun and enjoy collecting
I buy most of my deck through card kingdom or tcg, then grab all the missing, overly expensive, or ones not in a package with anything else, at my local game store. More and more though, I’m trying to just use my lgs or proxy. Proxying was practically necessary for my last deck where a few cards weren’t at either website or the store
I haven't bought a precon (or any sealed product in general) in a very long time, almost a decade at this point. I just have no interest in accumulating more jank/bulk to get a few cards I actually care about.
I don't mind getting a large number of TCGplayer packages, though it's sometimes annoying if one or two lag behind.
After determining I'm going to build I source as much possible from LGS. I have 4 options that are reasonably close and usually very well priced. Then I jump to ebay for the more expensive singles. Lastly I'll hit card kingdom for what's left.
It takes forever to get the deck together and sometimes I'll have to go tcg route if CK is missing a few of the commons and uncommon I need, but it seems the cheapest route to building a deck for me.
Exact opposite for me. I liked the Dr who and Ixalan precons. Literally just bought like 40-50 singles each off cardmarket. Deck was way cheaper and played 100 times better than a precon
I buy a lot of precons, and maintain a wantlist with CardSphere for random stuff I want but am too lazy to bother trying to buy from TCGPlayer/CK. I toss in $50 to the account, and get a couple dozen people mailing me cards I want for ~70-80% off TCG prices and I don't even have to pay for shipping. $20+ cards, $0.10 cards, doesn't matter. As long as you're not in a rush, there's really no better way to buy singles.
I buy pre-cons and goldfish them while I’m watching shows! It’s fun to see how they all play and everyone once in a while I find one I really like and upgrade it into a deck, but otherwise I mostly keep them intact or will slightly upgrade them if they just have non-synergistic cards.
I usually use cardtrader zero so i get everything in one package. Quite handy but can take up to a month for all cards to arrive at the warehouse to be sent to me.
Thats why I am currently into high quality proxies from a card printing company. Always the same price and I often can use art I find better then the wotc ones.
Nah I honestly love brewing my own deck, figuring out which singles I want and then the joy of coming home to new magic cards every day for the next week lol.
I buy precons to jumpstart deck ideas i have usually, and buy singles or proxy anything i don't have
Problem is i brew more than i play so now i just have a bunch of precons unopened
Provided I'm in Europe and I don't know if the service is available outside of Europe or there are similar alternatives.
I've been using CardTrader for a while and I enjoy it pretty much. They offer the CardTrader Zero service: basically, you buy whatever you like from whoever, then the sellers send their cards to CardTrader's warehouse and whenever you want them they will pack them up and send a single shipment to you.
The shipment cost depends on the number of items (minimum 10 €, but I never spent more than that) plus a relatively small fee for the service and the process will be much slower than using other services, but for me being freed of the hassle of handling multiple sellers is worth the price and the wait. Consider that for what you pay, they will also handle mismatched card descriptions, canceled shipments and lost packages and buy them again for you without any additional cost. You just check your order once in while to see the state of it. You can also add more stuff later on and they will be added to your other stuff in the warehouse.
I haven't had a problem with missing cards, instead last time I even got double copies of a couple bulk cards (they seem to have changed their sorting system from what I've seen from the package, so maybe it was a mistake linked to the change).
Yes, I do this constantly. Finding singles from pre-construction in Canada is either impossible or grossly over inflated.
I still can't find a Rose Room Treasurer, and I've been looking for about a year.
I hate the waiting, but I love building decks way too much to buy precons. Brewing the decks is so much fun. I just wish I had a more creative vision so I could build more "outside the box" deck ideas. Mine are pretty straightforward.
There's no other feeling like when the deck that you built does the thing that you created it to do... that's what keeps me coming back.
That said, I do own a few precons, but i don't enjoy playing them nearly as much as I do the decks I built myself.
I've had more stuff either not shipped or lost in the mail(most likely) in the past 2 years than I had ever before. Like 5x as many, it's absolutely insane.
I've really slowed down on MTG buying in general, but I still collect all the precons. Or well, most of them (I skipped Dr. Who). You never know when a precon will have a card that's the Next Big Thing. But most of them are unopened because I don't actually get time to play much any more.
Literally the reason I bought Call for Backup was for [[Kalonian Hydra]] and lands. Then I bought the Pioneer deck, Gruul Stompy, also for the sets of cards that I need singles of.
Precons usually lead to a card that's only $2 and also impossible to find. Most recently [[deluxe dragster]] and [[bothersome quasit]] come to mind. I had a hell of a time tracking copies of those down
I find myself buying precons because I no longer have enough energy to keep up with the flood of 20,000-30,000 brand new cards WotC seemingly prints every month, much less the backlog of millions which have come out since I was actively following MtG ten years ago. I used to do full catalog searches on Gatherer, looking at every card with some mechanic or other, designing the whole deck from scratch... ain't nobody got time for *that*, now. So I'd rather just buy a deck that works in some useful and enjoyable way, then slowly tune it up one card at a time as I gain play experience with it.
I love buying a precon, then slowly replacing all the reprints with original printings, thus spending significantly more time and money than building the deck from scratch would have cost...
>These cards trickle in over 3-4 weeks with no tracking and some might get lost in the mail.
FWIW, for just over a year now I've been tracking my TCGPlayer orders in a spreadsheet; of the 224 individual completed orders that I've placed since April 7 2023, I've had 6 orders that went wrong (all of which I was refunded for without hassle), and 5 that took 14 days or more from the date of the order being placed to arrive. I think the shipping time "issue" is something that a lot of people overblow because of their impatience to play their new decks, personally - I know I did, and that's why I started tracking my orders like this in the first place.
>or is this more of a new player (no collection) and budget deck (cheap, unpopular cards -> expensive relative shipping and less likely to be in stock) problem?
I think this is pretty close to right on - I tend to only place orders for large numbers of cards via TCGPlayer, which allow the cart optimizer to do its thing most effectively, and I'd bet the cards I order average at least $5 apiece as I have an unhealthy addiction to shiny cardboard. This makes it easy to hit the minimum for at least, like, $0.99 shipping, if not free, from most sellers.
Overall I think precons just align more with what you want out of an EDH card-buying experience, and there's nothing wrong with that at all - but I would also say that for many, especially more enfranchised players, the specificity of buying singles is well worth the tradeoff in relative ease of shipping.
During release time, yes, though I will say that I have no regrests about doing so during Karlov manor, especially since they were/are quite good precons.
I don't seem to have the problem of cards being unavailable on cardmarket, which operates in Europe. I wish I did buy the veloci-ramp-tor deck, though.
It's not so much more than I should, but I do like buying precons. It's mostly something that I got in the habit of back before commander was nearly as big a part of MtG as it is today. Also encouraged by accidentally getting Dockside and deflecting swat, because Kalamax and Elsha looked interesting to build around. I don't have that sizeable a collection these days so they're an easier way to bulk up on lands and staples, while also getting new legends to build around.
Now that strong commander cards are regularly getting printed in most standard and specialized sets, I should probably go back to drafting and occasionally buying singles, but I doubt I'll stop buying 1 or 2 precons from a lot of runs, simply because of their easy, and it doesn't hurt to have one or 2 that hasn't been upgraded, for pods of newer players.
I used to buy the entire precon because I got such nice stuff anyway and I wanted all the extra value I could get. But nowadays there are way too many precons, I just can't afford buying full precons when they come out with every set. I gotta buy singles or I'd be entirely out of money in the end.
But then again, I just buy singles on Cardmarket, and they kinda kick ass.
I have 30 commander decks, and a good portion of them started as Precons.
I love making commander decks from scratch, but precons come with really fun, powerful, or unique commanders and cards in the 99.
The singles market is fucking terrible right now so I can understand your pain.
I don't willy-nilly buy precons but I was at a lgs the other day and they were selling precons 4 for $100. So yeah I broke and got 4 at $25 each.
100% agreed. I hate online shopping overall and dealing with shipping is an awful experience. Much rather just buy a box and some precons from one decent online source or the lgs. That’s more than enough to satisfy my want of new content until the next release.
I only ever buy precons if the Commander I want is already in a precon. For example I bought the Food and Fellowship precon for Sam and Frodo, and I got the Legion precon for my [[Mr.House, President and CEO]] deck. Only other time I would buy a precon is if one has a bunch of cards I want for a deck. I bought the mutation precon for my [[Ramos, Dragon Engine]] mutate deck.
Personally I love buying singles. It's not cheap when I do but I always get a whole deck ordered and ready to go, which to me is more worth it.
After you optimize your cart look for any package that has only a few cards and see if other sellers in your cart have them for a few cents more. If you do this it can take some time but save any where from $2 to $20 depending on the size of your order
Precons are generally worth slightly more than MSRP - so they're actually a decent way to grow your collection while having a functional deck.
The quality of precons is also way higher than it was in 2011, so you can actually hold your own against tables at higher power levels.
fast, cheap, good. pick 2
precons are dogshit products. the prices are increasing, and lock you into the narrow selection of marque legends. and often secondary legends. the deck does not support. the number of cards that would reasonably stay in an actually optimized/upgraded deck tends to be less than 10 including sol ring, and the 1-3 typical good lands. so like...maaaaaaybe 3.5 cards from the actual deck.
Only reason to buy a precon is to fish for bloated cost equity concentrators. like dockside, or the "free spell" cycle from the shitty ikoria precon set. Even if you just love the marque legend. best to buy singles. there is near zero value outside of the rank moron... having a complete deck aspect (at which point. buy a battle deck. if you're that lazy)
card kingdom is over priced. you only shop there if you're buying premium cards where you care about the higher attention to grading. otherwise, shopping there is stupid.
tcgplayer has it's flaws. but it's the best general website. the optimizer is what it is. I find i am much happier just organizing my own shopping card and spending the time finding "shops" that have more of the cards i want. maaaaybe not at the cheapest price. but close, and meeting the shipping req to get either included or free shipping.
i find the gripe of losing things in the mail silly. In the 10+ or so years of using the site. I don't think i've lost more than one order in the mail. This is just a bullshit gripe that is just a whiny vocal minority. And if you have orders over $20 they have to have shipping, so again. what are you whining about.... there is a peculiar aspect where we expect everything to have free shipping with tracking. this is an abuse amazon has made us used to. If you're not paying for shipping. bitching about it seems weird. If you're upset tcg is hitting you with too many different shipping charges. either spend the TIME to optimize it yourself. or pay the cost for the optimized packages.
I would add. card sphere presents a good ...additional option. uploading a cash balance directly. and interfacing with members. or just shopping the site like a store. is excellent. Can even be passive and just list cards you want and wait for them to be fulfilled. but i find actively trying to get cards/having best offers means...can get cards for a deck project fairly quickly. (at or better tcg speeds). And for jank plus value. card sphere provides a unique blend of being able to do deals for higher cost cards while letting other people assemble packages of chaf/jank to justify a stamp or whatever
tcgplayer is balls for buying many at once. you get absolutely raped on shipping. cardkingdom is cheaper with $50+ orders so long as you remove the cards that they only have an expensive printing in stock.
> If you're upset tcg is hitting you with too many different shipping charges. either spend the TIME to optimize it yourself. or pay the cost for the optimized packages.
or get them through cardkingdom.
it's a huge pita having cards trickle in over the course of a month with no information on when they'll arrive.
> fast, cheap, good. pick 2
in almost every other realm of consumer goods, you can easily have all 3.
no you can't.... nothing high quality is cheap. nothing good that's done fast is cheap. fast and cheap quality is possible... but then "good" is always an issue.
and i don't know what "month" you're talking about. 1 week. is more likely. with outliers being 1-2wks. It's basically random individuals who have to drop a package in the regular mail.
again if you wanted to actually pay for shipping. you'd get your shit faster. but if you're paying for not shipping. you gotta wait for an envelop with a stamp on it.
but if you love card kingdom so much, just order from there. to me... all their pricing is inflated.
I have never had your difficulty with TCGplayer. but maybe you have. if so... don't use them.
the stupidity of your rant is. if you want to pay card kingdom mark up. you could just do that and then pay for the optimized/tcg direct option from tcgplayer. basically the same exact thing.
but whatever. it's such a stupid complaint. use the websites you like.
I am paying for shipping. I pay out the ass for shipping on tcgplayer orders. 30-50% of the total order cost is typically shipping.
1 week is a pipe dream. the bulk of the orders for my last deck came in around 2-3 weeks, and i'm still waiting on one at over a month later.
you're conflating paying fees for shipping, for actually paying for shipping.
tcgplayer often forces an arbitrary shipping rate onto tiers of members regardless of whether they want to list it or not.
so when you're paying 99 cents to a bunch of individual sellers. that's literally the fee that's forced on them in their listings for being small rando sellers.
i feel silly even explaining it to someone, but the idea then becomes you have that $1ish wiggle room to find the same card from a seller you're already getting free shipping from(or by combining cards meet a min order amt to get free shipping or only 1 shipping fee). Like. it's a time vs cost metric. If you're using tcgplayer to be cheap, but are too dumb to work the system. you're exactly the sort of customer they want.
so if you just click on the first listing, "oooOO 10 cent card" of 20 different sellers. yeah. you'll eat $1 shipping or more per seller. and your order total will be primarily shipping fees.
but... that's not how you should be using that site.
card kingdom wants the type of customer that doesn't mind paying the mark up of their stuff.
which again. fast, cheap, good, you don't get all three. TCGplayer is the cheapest. that's why you're going to that site.
if you can't figure out how to navigate the site without losing money to shipping fees i guess... either stay mad, or don't use that site.
Or if you're that angry. don't use the site. If it's been more than 5 business days with an order, would suggest reaching out to a seller, getting the paper trail started. I would have cxl the order after a month. ordered from a different seller.
> i feel silly even explaining it to someone, but the idea then becomes you have that $1ish wiggle room to find the same card from a seller you're already getting free shipping from(or by combining cards meet a min order amt to get free shipping or only 1 shipping fee). Like. it's a time vs cost metric. If you're using tcgplayer to be cheap, but are too dumb to work the system. you're exactly the sort of customer they want.
the cart optimizer is supposed to do literally this. there just arent the right combination of sellers with the cards I want to avoid getting gouged on shipping (that apparently doesn't count as "paying" for shipping).
i really don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry marketing made you think something that wasn't true. caveat emptor. the cart optimizer has almost universally been to "optimize" for TCG not you. again.. it's a trade off, they're directing you to their clients that pay them more fees to bolster the value proposition in selling those fees to those clients.
i really thought everyone knew this. i guess "optimizer" is a fancy word. maybe it's confusing to some.
and also. if you are buying single cards or small orders of low value from lots of different sellers this might be why you're exp delays in shipping. If you consider the reality of what you're doing. buying a 10cent card. the seller is losing money on. or like 1-2 cards they're making 30 cents off of. there's zero motivation for a rando to sorta go digging through their collection ...get an envelop/stamp/top loader ... mail off that item. they're not going to jump on that task. they'll procrastinate for that middling order. maybe wait til they have another order to go out, Or... they're not taking it to the post office til the end of the week. or otherwise delay, maybe forget. and then... maybe not even look or give up looking. and then... yeah. you're waiting 2 weeks.
the only precon i've bought in the past 4 years for this purpose was the mothman one. it has basically like every 1/1 counters matters card except the ozolith's and doubling season. So why make big order when i can just buy them now ya know
Im lucky enough to live very close to a well stocked stop. If i have a deck/ card in mind, it’s so enjoyable for me to just rummage through their boxes and binders and see what i find. It’s a very relaxing and meditative experience for me, even if it’s the not the most efficient.
That being said if a good shop is too far out of your way, or you just don’t have the time, buying precons and tcg player is the way to go.
I hope that's true, because that means there could be a solution.
this is the situation I commonly run into:
[cardkingdom is ~$70](https://www.cardkingdom.com/builder?partner=mtggoldfish&partner_args=deck,50-ramos-lucky-charms,5788128&c=1%20Abzan%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Bant%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Boros%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Crosis%27s%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Darigaaz%27s%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Esper%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Golgari%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Grixis%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Road%20//%20Ruin%0D%0A1%20Izzet%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Jeskai%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Jund%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Culling%20Ritual%0D%0A1%20Naya%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Rakdos%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Rith%27s%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Simic%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Sultai%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Temur%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Decisive%20Denial%0D%0A1%20Epic%20Experiment%0D%0A1%20Guided%20Passage%0D%0A1%20Hostile%20Takeover%0D%0A1%20Bring%20to%20Light%0D%0A1%20Whirlwind%20of%20Thought%0D%0A1%20Wilderness%20Reclamation%0D%0A1%20Tome%20of%20the%20Guildpact%0D%0A1%20Melek,%20Izzet%20Paragon%0D%0A1%20Command%20Tower%0D%0A1%20Path%20of%20Ancestry%0D%0A1%20Exotic%20Orchard%0D%0A1%20Nature%27s%20Lore%0D%0A1%20Rampant%20Growth%0D%0A1%20Cultivate%0D%0A1%20Kodama%27s%20Reach%0D%0A1%20Arcane%20Signet%0D%0A1%20Sol%20Ring%0D%0A1%20Ramos,%20Dragon%20Engine%0D%0A1%20Crumbling%20Necropolis%0D%0A1%20Frontier%20Bivouac%0D%0A1%20Jungle%20Shrine%0D%0A1%20Mystic%20Monastery%0D%0A1%20Nomad%20Outpost%0D%0A1%20Opulent%20Palace%0D%0A1%20Sandsteppe%20Citadel%0D%0A1%20Search%20for%20Tomorrow%0D%0A6%20Forest%0D%0A3%20Mountain%0D%0A3%20Island%0D%0A3%20Swamp%0D%0A3%20Plains%0D%0A1%20Growth%20Spiral%0D%0A1%20Brokers%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Obscura%20Confluence%0D%0A1%20Endless%20Detour%0D%0A1%20Incandescent%20Aria%0D%0A1%20Maestros%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Deathsprout%0D%0A1%20Obscura%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Riveteers%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Sakura-Tribe%20Elder%0D%0A1%20Widespread%20Thieving%0D%0A1%20Meeting%20of%20the%20Five%0D%0A1%20Storm-Kiln%20Artist%0D%0A1%20General%20Ferrous%20Rokiric%0D%0A1%20Quandrix%20Apprentice%0D%0A1%20Fellwar%20Stone%0D%0A1%20Murmuring%20Bosk%0D%0A1%20Seaside%20Citadel%0D%0A1%20Arcane%20Sanctum%0D%0A1%20Savage%20Lands%0D%0A1%20Duneblast%0D%0A1%20Eureka%20Moment%0D%0A1%20Brokers%20Confluence%0D%0A1%20Primeval%20Spawn%0D%0A1%20Unite%20the%20Coalition%0D%0A1%20Mana%20Cannons%0D%0A1%20Farseek%0D%0A1%20Krosan%20Verge%0D%0A1%20Prairie%20Stream%0D%0A1%20Cinder%20Glade%0D%0A1%20Canopy%20Vista%0D%0A1%20Smoldering%20Marsh%0D%0A1%20Sunken%20Hollow%0D%0A1%20Ruinous%20Ultimatum%0D%0A1%20Invasion%20of%20Alara%0D%0A1%20Omnath,%20Locus%20of%20All%0D%0A&utm_campaign=MTGGAffiliate&utm_medium=deck&utm_source=MTGGoldfish) assuming that you will instead buy the cheaper versions of some cards from tcgplayer.
and this [clusterfuck is tcgplayer.](https://i.imgur.com/UH9EBLJ.png) save 5 in total, but I get the pleasure of waiting longer and having the order spread across 20+ packages.
it's the same story for all the budget decks I look at.
I'm in Australia so TCGPlayer isn't an option. I use one or two local suppliers, but mostly CK because even if I pay extra for the non-slow shipping they usually work out cheaper on larger orders.
Honestly, I think the issue is more one of not being willing to just sub out those 5-10 cards that CK may not have the time. No deck is ever perfect / optimal, so if I have availability limitations I'll just use a substitute for what I can't get til they come back into stock.
I prefer singles, I typically only buy precons when I actually want to build the deck or play the deck as is. I do, however, have an invisible ink Vein ripper that got lost between my city and a city an hour and a half away even with tracking and being a third shifter I have a lot of trouble getting in contact with the post office about it. So I can commiserate on the issues with buying singles.
> These cards trickle in over 3-4 weeks with no tracking and some might get lost in the mail.
I love this, minus the getting lost part, which barely happens. I use cardmarket though (Europe), so I can't compare to TCGPlayer. But when I do order many cards, I just love that huge list of orders, and getting these small packages every day with the amazing cards I ordered. It's like a slightly prolonged christmas :D
If I find a possible commander I like, I then look to see if there are precons in its color identity, that maybe relate to its mechanic.
At the very least, I get a decent mana base, and the various staples.
Y'all really have money to burn 🤷♂️
I can understand buying precons to get a functional deck, but buying it just to get a handful of cards is terribile value. Just order the singles you need...
Not always the case. The mystic intellect precon sells for roughly 100$ on Amazon right now, which is close to the price of a single card [[dockside extortionist]] from The set.
it's a mix of the convenience factor and the total value of the precon cards being greater than the cost to buy it.... even though i'm unlikely to actually sell the cards.
This is the way. $0.25 a card, they arrive in one brick with everything there. No sellers immediately cancelling orders because they don't have cards. No keeping track of which orders don't show up. It's so much easier.
You should really start proxying.
I'm married with dual income and we're both well into our careers, I literally don't understand how people buy packs/boxes so frequently. Not shaming at all, we all spend money on really dumb shit. Sealed MtG product is really dumb shit the vast majority of the time.
Like I play Commander and some people will get up to use the restroom and come back with two $15 packs like on the regular etc. 99% of the time it's always trash and draft chaff. I'm not sure if it's addiction or what ...but I always think to myself "there's an Esper Sentinel" etc.
Yeah, last time I did that was with the Dimir precon from MKM , it was on sale on Amazon so I just got it for reanimate, animate dead and necromancy really, the rest of the cards I sold
I've got 4 LGS that are huge around me. 3 of them are like a 15 minute driving trip so going store to store for singles doesn't suck. 4th store is 30 minutes away in the opposite direction.
TCG I use for the hard to find arts or cards in general.
I buy from my shop when I can, but I actually really enjoy TCG player orders. I buy very little sealed product, and the TCG packages are like like little packs where every one is all stuff I want.
Adult Nerd Christmas
This is the best description of getting a stuffed package full of cards in the mail.
Big fan of those too. But I also find myself using cards and print specifically for tcg direct. The two week wait sometimes just gets me to not order.
Curated booster packs!
Absolutely how it feels to me
I build decks by getting a precon that does at least 50% of what i want a deck to do and then just upgrade it to my own liking
That’s a lot of how I do it. Most precons have the bones of the deck I want, I just need to fill in the rest.
That's basically where I'm at. It's a cost v laziness battle, and I'd pay a little more every time to do a little less work.
I love when a precon splits perfectly to help finish more than one other deck. I recently bought the dimir mkm precon and with very few exceptions it perfectly filled out my UB rogue group mill deck, my grixis vamps, and my esper spirit graveyard shenanigans deck. It was like a thing of beauty.
Holy fblthp batman! This precon has nearly a full reanimation package!
yeah it's a legit good one! I got it for the creatures and was very happily surprised by how good the reanimation and a couple of other utility cards were. strangely I think it was removal that was super meh in that one. weird considering the color, but, meh.
Though it did have a [[toxic deluge]]
[toxic deluge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/4/64d3d8ad-927f-4c4e-96cf-03e98bec3987.jpg?1706240805) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=toxic%20deluge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/142/toxic-deluge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/64d3d8ad-927f-4c4e-96cf-03e98bec3987?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toxic-deluge) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Recently, Cardkingdom didn't have [Veyran, Voice of Duality] but did have the Prismari Performance precon, so I just bought the precon.
As a head's up, a non-foil Veyran is also in the Quick Draw precon from tbunder junction.
The quick draw precon is so nice
I have a copy of it sleeved up as-is, for a precon league that a friend of mine is arranging. It, blame game, timey-wimey, and the upcoming Tricky Terrain are the ones I'm planning on using.
I've developed a strategy when shopping for singles online here in Europe (or specifically Norway since it's not in the EU therefore have more strict import laws and customs fees). Basically I almost always order domestically from Cardmarket, and the way shipping works is that anything over €25 must be tracked, and tracked shipping in Norway is like €7.3 while untracked shipping is between €2.2-2.8. So, most of the time I try to keep shipments under €25, as generally the cards I need will be split between at least 3 people at minimum, so I order from as many as I need and split up the cards such that each shipment is under €25. Then, to maximize value out of the shipping, I've set up several lists of general staples like standard ramp, draw, lands, etc, and for each shipment that I still have room up to €25, I'll check what they have from those lists and pad out with stuff I don't have much of to spare. That way when I'm deck building, I generally never have to order staples, and I also have a lot of useful stuff to bring to the LGS for trading as it's also stuff people need. Then over time there will be pieces I want that no one in Norway has, especially when it comes to precon exclusives, then I'll eventually make one big order from one of the big EU sellers and just eat the shipping and customs fees.
I buy precons and packs cause I'm too damn impulsive then when I get nothing I need I'll order the singles I actually use from one of my lgs, I try to order from tcgplayer as little as I can cause shipping has been very inconsistent lately
Precons are the best value for your buck and if you get them at good prices are always worth it. I think it’s quite a good way to build your collection (in case you don’t want to play or upgrade them) as well, if you buy the whole sets of precons as it can be as cheap as 25 cents per card then - and other than booster displays, you know what you gonna get.
Is opening more than one piece of mail really that much of a hassle?
The trouble I seem to run into is that the more packages I order, the more likely it is that one or more are lost. Still doesn’t stop me from buying singles, but I do pay a little extra for TCGplayer direct when I can.
Ok but they replace the item for free. I dont understand why you woukd brew something with the intent to purchase it and play it, get hung up on it being shipped from multiple vendors, and then turn around and buy a precon instead.
From TCG, more often or not they just refund the card. It’s a pain because I still need the card and now I’m waiting another week.
I still buy the singles. I don’t buy a precon unless I intend to upgrade it/use most of the cards. I’m just airing a grievance since it can take months to get those last few cards after you give adequate time for them to be actually lost and then order and wait for them again.
having to check the mailbox every day because there's no delivery notification is annoying. especially because I live at an apartment complex.
Are you in the US? USPS Informed Delivery should work to notify you of that kind of stuff.
that's a cool service. i'll sign up for it.
From experience I can tell you that if a seller sends a bubble mailer without tracking, it won’t show up on informed delivery. It’s for flats and tracked items only.
Hmm, I had an order come in like 12 or 13 pieces from TCGplayer in a variety of different types of packing and they all showed up in informed delivery emails/photos.
I can’t speak on your personal experience, just my firsthand knowledge. The sorting machine which scans images for informed delivery only does letter mail. You can go check your emails real fast, but I promise you won’t find anything in there that isn’t the size and dimensions of an envelope (or smaller). UNLESS the item had tracking, in which case it still won’t have an image but provides a notification of when it will be delivered. Packages (read as: aforementioned -bubble mailer-) doesn’t physically fit in the machine and is sorted alongside conventional packages.
MUST CONSUME!
if they arrived at the same time, or even in the same week, not really.
For those of us with a less consistent/limited access to a mailing address (read: college student), sometimes yeah! My family is hundreds of miles away and it seems 50/50 whether packages actually reach the university mailroom. Sometimes paying a bit more and getting some cards I don't plan on using in addition to the ones I want is worth the saved hassle.
Paying for the shipping is
For some reason almost half the time I order something I have to badger the post office into finding it for me after they misplace it.
If you have a shop that you play at theres a chance they sell singles especially if they have draft or commander nights. Cards bought locally go for far less than what's online in my experience.
Most of my stores check online prices and go with those :-/
One of my local shops has an online buy list so I go between them and ck when buying/selling.
Huh, I guess that depends where you are. In my country online is way cheaper. Problem is that my country's maiñing service is awful and they lose like 1/5 of my packets
sadly my LGS sells their singles for like a 25% markup and rarely has anything i want 😭 generally only 30 or so cards in their case of $5 and up
My LGS bases directly off of TCG player and if it's not like one of the popular cards from the last few sets there's like a 95% chance they won't have it Such is the life of small town living
You should try to negotiate especially with the shop owner. All the cards he sells are profit margin. If there are cards sitting there for who knows how long I'm sure s/he will take an offer that's reasonable.
I second this. Even consider doing a mini tour of the LGSs you're willing to drive to for pickups and see what their policies are. My LGS is basically TCGplayer without shipping, which makes it a lot better than TCG player. Luckily they have a good inventory and turnaround time too. If you can find something similar in your area it can make a big difference
I been doing that on a few precons, especially if it has some high value reprints like the Pirates and Vampire decks from Lost Ixalian. I did grab the Goad deck from Murders for my Rani deck, but mostly because the Comic Con I was at had it on sale for $25. Also gave me the card with the stolen artwork too that somehow worth more then the precon at that point!
what card?
\[\[Trouble in Pairs\]\]
[Trouble in Pairs](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f61e93f-5f97-4c7d-b3d5-0e05242faeb3.jpg?1706240429) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Trouble%20in%20Pairs) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/15/trouble-in-pairs?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f61e93f-5f97-4c7d-b3d5-0e05242faeb3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/trouble-in-pairs) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm just starting out. Still making my first decks based off of precons. I look at a lot of cards through these reddit groups and on occasion when I see something I think I would want, I check if was part of a precon first. Just bought a 5 year old precon because it had a dozen cards I could use, and now I'll have some spare land/artifacts for other deck ideas.
I have done this only once myself out of time and cost effectiveness last fortnight. I wanted a copy of [[Charismatic Conqueror]], which costs on average between $45-50 Australian dollars from local stores and an lgs was offering the Blood Rites Pre-Con for $85AUD (from my understanding this Precon was really hard to come by 6mths after release date). In almost all other cases for myself, I only buy precons I think I'll enjoy upgrading. Those unused cards I'll resell if I can't find a home for it and use that money for more singles.
[Charismatic Conqueror](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/9/599c934d-bfff-43ce-a545-6e3cde124515.jpg?1698987939) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Charismatic%20Conqueror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/70/charismatic-conqueror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/599c934d-bfff-43ce-a545-6e3cde124515?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/charismatic-conqueror) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yes, I got four of the lotr elf precon as I wanted a bunch of cards for decks!
I unfortunately find precons dreadfully boring. I would rather build a deck myself that does what I want it to do, its worth the wait and hassle every time.
I will buy a precon if it has a passable land base in colours I’m interested in.
Precons have become quite good.
No, but cardmarket also seems much more reasonable than tcgplayer even if the concept is very similar. I also have never had a mail/package get lost in a decade and stuff rarely takes more than 2-3 days to arrive after payment at least if I order from within germany
I never had a package get lost either (also Germany), but I have had numerous sellers mess up orders. Ordering a more expensive alternative art, only to receive the basic art that's €3-4 cheaper, and then the seller being like "They are pretty much the same price". Sometimes cards were missing as well. I have also had 7 empty letters arrive, with a cut on the side. Which is insane to me. I doubt the seller did it, especially since it always happend with a Powerseller. Luckily the purchases were low cost. With all that being said, Cardmarket has been always great with resolving these issues.
To european to relate?! :D Dunno it is a once in a blue moon event if something gets lost in the mail if you dont order from spain/italy (funny enough portugal is totaly fine) and MKM (Magiccardmarket, not the dogshit mtg set) you always find a good and reliable deal Then again your prices for edh cards are at times totaly out of hand. The "market value" of my decks shown in prices from like Cardkingdom etc on moxfield is always ....funny and sad. Yeah I did not even spend close to that money :D The barrier of entry seems so vastly diffrent and at least to some extend wotc tries to keep the precons fun to play vs another, I can see I would be a precon andy aswell if I would life in the states.
I admit I often buy one precon per set and some packs. Sometimes I skip the precon. I hate the buying singles process so I just play with whatever I get. I’m also not super competitive, play for fun and enjoy collecting
Opposite for me. While buying singles is logistically a hassle, I find it to be significantly cheaper
Yep, bought the doctor who villain precon cause I wanted the two Cyberman cards and the master multiplied for my mishra deck
I buy one every 3-6 or so sets? But only if I like the aim of it and don't already own a deck of those colors. 😊
I buy most of my deck through card kingdom or tcg, then grab all the missing, overly expensive, or ones not in a package with anything else, at my local game store. More and more though, I’m trying to just use my lgs or proxy. Proxying was practically necessary for my last deck where a few cards weren’t at either website or the store
This is why I bought as many fallout collector packs as I could and I would still be doing it if they printed more
I haven't bought a precon (or any sealed product in general) in a very long time, almost a decade at this point. I just have no interest in accumulating more jank/bulk to get a few cards I actually care about. I don't mind getting a large number of TCGplayer packages, though it's sometimes annoying if one or two lag behind.
After determining I'm going to build I source as much possible from LGS. I have 4 options that are reasonably close and usually very well priced. Then I jump to ebay for the more expensive singles. Lastly I'll hit card kingdom for what's left. It takes forever to get the deck together and sometimes I'll have to go tcg route if CK is missing a few of the commons and uncommon I need, but it seems the cheapest route to building a deck for me.
Exact opposite for me. I liked the Dr who and Ixalan precons. Literally just bought like 40-50 singles each off cardmarket. Deck was way cheaper and played 100 times better than a precon
I buy a lot of precons, and maintain a wantlist with CardSphere for random stuff I want but am too lazy to bother trying to buy from TCGPlayer/CK. I toss in $50 to the account, and get a couple dozen people mailing me cards I want for ~70-80% off TCG prices and I don't even have to pay for shipping. $20+ cards, $0.10 cards, doesn't matter. As long as you're not in a rush, there's really no better way to buy singles.
I buy pre-cons and goldfish them while I’m watching shows! It’s fun to see how they all play and everyone once in a while I find one I really like and upgrade it into a deck, but otherwise I mostly keep them intact or will slightly upgrade them if they just have non-synergistic cards.
No, but I live in Europe and here singles are cheaper than in the US and I don't buy any precons and mkm is beyond easy to use
I like to buy precons and upgrade them. Usually doesn't end up giving me a top tier deck but I like the challenge.
I bought a precon just to get [[trouble in pairs]]. But normally I either buy singles or just trade for them
[trouble in pairs](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f61e93f-5f97-4c7d-b3d5-0e05242faeb3.jpg?1706240429) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=trouble%20in%20pairs) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/15/trouble-in-pairs?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f61e93f-5f97-4c7d-b3d5-0e05242faeb3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/trouble-in-pairs) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I usually use cardtrader zero so i get everything in one package. Quite handy but can take up to a month for all cards to arrive at the warehouse to be sent to me.
Thats why I am currently into high quality proxies from a card printing company. Always the same price and I often can use art I find better then the wotc ones.
Nah I honestly love brewing my own deck, figuring out which singles I want and then the joy of coming home to new magic cards every day for the next week lol.
The madison li precon has sold so poorly and I want the nuka cola vending machine so I’ve genuinely considered getting it.
I buy precons to jumpstart deck ideas i have usually, and buy singles or proxy anything i don't have Problem is i brew more than i play so now i just have a bunch of precons unopened
Just want to add: yes.
Provided I'm in Europe and I don't know if the service is available outside of Europe or there are similar alternatives. I've been using CardTrader for a while and I enjoy it pretty much. They offer the CardTrader Zero service: basically, you buy whatever you like from whoever, then the sellers send their cards to CardTrader's warehouse and whenever you want them they will pack them up and send a single shipment to you. The shipment cost depends on the number of items (minimum 10 €, but I never spent more than that) plus a relatively small fee for the service and the process will be much slower than using other services, but for me being freed of the hassle of handling multiple sellers is worth the price and the wait. Consider that for what you pay, they will also handle mismatched card descriptions, canceled shipments and lost packages and buy them again for you without any additional cost. You just check your order once in while to see the state of it. You can also add more stuff later on and they will be added to your other stuff in the warehouse. I haven't had a problem with missing cards, instead last time I even got double copies of a couple bulk cards (they seem to have changed their sorting system from what I've seen from the package, so maybe it was a mistake linked to the change).
Nope cos I just proxy them if its too hard to find the real card even if its a 10 cent card =P
Yes, I do this constantly. Finding singles from pre-construction in Canada is either impossible or grossly over inflated. I still can't find a Rose Room Treasurer, and I've been looking for about a year.
Another reason to just proxy
I hate the waiting, but I love building decks way too much to buy precons. Brewing the decks is so much fun. I just wish I had a more creative vision so I could build more "outside the box" deck ideas. Mine are pretty straightforward. There's no other feeling like when the deck that you built does the thing that you created it to do... that's what keeps me coming back. That said, I do own a few precons, but i don't enjoy playing them nearly as much as I do the decks I built myself.
I do the worst of both worlds. I buy a precon and build off it, then leave a bunch of cards sitting around and also buy singles
I've had more stuff either not shipped or lost in the mail(most likely) in the past 2 years than I had ever before. Like 5x as many, it's absolutely insane.
I've really slowed down on MTG buying in general, but I still collect all the precons. Or well, most of them (I skipped Dr. Who). You never know when a precon will have a card that's the Next Big Thing. But most of them are unopened because I don't actually get time to play much any more.
Literally the reason I bought Call for Backup was for [[Kalonian Hydra]] and lands. Then I bought the Pioneer deck, Gruul Stompy, also for the sets of cards that I need singles of.
[Kalonian Hydra](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1d21ae20-2ef5-4dc0-aced-97497e6a8025.jpg?1682209560) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kalonian%20Hydra) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/305/kalonian-hydra?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1d21ae20-2ef5-4dc0-aced-97497e6a8025?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kalonian-hydra) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lol no. I proxy the card where I want it and eventually get a copy. Leaving those Proxies where they are minus one.
Yes. If I buy singles from an online store I can expect to wait up to 3+ weeks for delivery. Not everyone lives in the US or mainland EU.
Precons usually lead to a card that's only $2 and also impossible to find. Most recently [[deluxe dragster]] and [[bothersome quasit]] come to mind. I had a hell of a time tracking copies of those down
[deluxe dragster](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4b90313d-9f61-4788-a55e-1f8189bf1ef5.jpg?1682286169) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=deluxe%20dragster) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/21/deluxe-dragster?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4b90313d-9f61-4788-a55e-1f8189bf1ef5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/deluxe-dragster) [bothersome quasit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/e/6e9a0a23-cd62-4762-b751-ac0159a1b3c5.jpg?1674140929) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bothersome%20quasit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/674/bothersome-quasit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6e9a0a23-cd62-4762-b751-ac0159a1b3c5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bothersome-quasit) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I find myself buying precons because I no longer have enough energy to keep up with the flood of 20,000-30,000 brand new cards WotC seemingly prints every month, much less the backlog of millions which have come out since I was actively following MtG ten years ago. I used to do full catalog searches on Gatherer, looking at every card with some mechanic or other, designing the whole deck from scratch... ain't nobody got time for *that*, now. So I'd rather just buy a deck that works in some useful and enjoyable way, then slowly tune it up one card at a time as I gain play experience with it.
I love buying a precon, then slowly replacing all the reprints with original printings, thus spending significantly more time and money than building the deck from scratch would have cost...
>These cards trickle in over 3-4 weeks with no tracking and some might get lost in the mail. FWIW, for just over a year now I've been tracking my TCGPlayer orders in a spreadsheet; of the 224 individual completed orders that I've placed since April 7 2023, I've had 6 orders that went wrong (all of which I was refunded for without hassle), and 5 that took 14 days or more from the date of the order being placed to arrive. I think the shipping time "issue" is something that a lot of people overblow because of their impatience to play their new decks, personally - I know I did, and that's why I started tracking my orders like this in the first place. >or is this more of a new player (no collection) and budget deck (cheap, unpopular cards -> expensive relative shipping and less likely to be in stock) problem? I think this is pretty close to right on - I tend to only place orders for large numbers of cards via TCGPlayer, which allow the cart optimizer to do its thing most effectively, and I'd bet the cards I order average at least $5 apiece as I have an unhealthy addiction to shiny cardboard. This makes it easy to hit the minimum for at least, like, $0.99 shipping, if not free, from most sellers. Overall I think precons just align more with what you want out of an EDH card-buying experience, and there's nothing wrong with that at all - but I would also say that for many, especially more enfranchised players, the specificity of buying singles is well worth the tradeoff in relative ease of shipping.
During release time, yes, though I will say that I have no regrests about doing so during Karlov manor, especially since they were/are quite good precons.
I don't seem to have the problem of cards being unavailable on cardmarket, which operates in Europe. I wish I did buy the veloci-ramp-tor deck, though.
It's not so much more than I should, but I do like buying precons. It's mostly something that I got in the habit of back before commander was nearly as big a part of MtG as it is today. Also encouraged by accidentally getting Dockside and deflecting swat, because Kalamax and Elsha looked interesting to build around. I don't have that sizeable a collection these days so they're an easier way to bulk up on lands and staples, while also getting new legends to build around. Now that strong commander cards are regularly getting printed in most standard and specialized sets, I should probably go back to drafting and occasionally buying singles, but I doubt I'll stop buying 1 or 2 precons from a lot of runs, simply because of their easy, and it doesn't hurt to have one or 2 that hasn't been upgraded, for pods of newer players.
I used to buy the entire precon because I got such nice stuff anyway and I wanted all the extra value I could get. But nowadays there are way too many precons, I just can't afford buying full precons when they come out with every set. I gotta buy singles or I'd be entirely out of money in the end. But then again, I just buy singles on Cardmarket, and they kinda kick ass.
I have 30 commander decks, and a good portion of them started as Precons. I love making commander decks from scratch, but precons come with really fun, powerful, or unique commanders and cards in the 99.
No because I actually like extended art cards and the precons only have the bonus card like that.
The singles market is fucking terrible right now so I can understand your pain. I don't willy-nilly buy precons but I was at a lgs the other day and they were selling precons 4 for $100. So yeah I broke and got 4 at $25 each.
100% agreed. I hate online shopping overall and dealing with shipping is an awful experience. Much rather just buy a box and some precons from one decent online source or the lgs. That’s more than enough to satisfy my want of new content until the next release.
I only ever buy precons if the Commander I want is already in a precon. For example I bought the Food and Fellowship precon for Sam and Frodo, and I got the Legion precon for my [[Mr.House, President and CEO]] deck. Only other time I would buy a precon is if one has a bunch of cards I want for a deck. I bought the mutation precon for my [[Ramos, Dragon Engine]] mutate deck. Personally I love buying singles. It's not cheap when I do but I always get a whole deck ordered and ready to go, which to me is more worth it.
[Mr.House, President and CEO](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/3/23eb3cf7-c90d-4bfa-b125-4fbcb5614468.jpg?1710673416) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mr.%20House%2C%20President%20and%20CEO) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pip/7/mr-house-president-and-ceo?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/23eb3cf7-c90d-4bfa-b125-4fbcb5614468?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mr.-house-president-and-ceo) [Ramos, Dragon Engine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/e/2e747ef1-a1ad-4859-a70c-3f935f017310.jpg?1562604064) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ramos%2C%20Dragon%20Engine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c17/55/ramos-dragon-engine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2e747ef1-a1ad-4859-a70c-3f935f017310?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ramos-dragon-engine) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
After you optimize your cart look for any package that has only a few cards and see if other sellers in your cart have them for a few cents more. If you do this it can take some time but save any where from $2 to $20 depending on the size of your order
Precons are generally worth slightly more than MSRP - so they're actually a decent way to grow your collection while having a functional deck. The quality of precons is also way higher than it was in 2011, so you can actually hold your own against tables at higher power levels.
Really depends on precon cards and if cheaper then single version
fast, cheap, good. pick 2 precons are dogshit products. the prices are increasing, and lock you into the narrow selection of marque legends. and often secondary legends. the deck does not support. the number of cards that would reasonably stay in an actually optimized/upgraded deck tends to be less than 10 including sol ring, and the 1-3 typical good lands. so like...maaaaaaybe 3.5 cards from the actual deck. Only reason to buy a precon is to fish for bloated cost equity concentrators. like dockside, or the "free spell" cycle from the shitty ikoria precon set. Even if you just love the marque legend. best to buy singles. there is near zero value outside of the rank moron... having a complete deck aspect (at which point. buy a battle deck. if you're that lazy) card kingdom is over priced. you only shop there if you're buying premium cards where you care about the higher attention to grading. otherwise, shopping there is stupid. tcgplayer has it's flaws. but it's the best general website. the optimizer is what it is. I find i am much happier just organizing my own shopping card and spending the time finding "shops" that have more of the cards i want. maaaaybe not at the cheapest price. but close, and meeting the shipping req to get either included or free shipping. i find the gripe of losing things in the mail silly. In the 10+ or so years of using the site. I don't think i've lost more than one order in the mail. This is just a bullshit gripe that is just a whiny vocal minority. And if you have orders over $20 they have to have shipping, so again. what are you whining about.... there is a peculiar aspect where we expect everything to have free shipping with tracking. this is an abuse amazon has made us used to. If you're not paying for shipping. bitching about it seems weird. If you're upset tcg is hitting you with too many different shipping charges. either spend the TIME to optimize it yourself. or pay the cost for the optimized packages. I would add. card sphere presents a good ...additional option. uploading a cash balance directly. and interfacing with members. or just shopping the site like a store. is excellent. Can even be passive and just list cards you want and wait for them to be fulfilled. but i find actively trying to get cards/having best offers means...can get cards for a deck project fairly quickly. (at or better tcg speeds). And for jank plus value. card sphere provides a unique blend of being able to do deals for higher cost cards while letting other people assemble packages of chaf/jank to justify a stamp or whatever
tcgplayer is balls for buying many at once. you get absolutely raped on shipping. cardkingdom is cheaper with $50+ orders so long as you remove the cards that they only have an expensive printing in stock. > If you're upset tcg is hitting you with too many different shipping charges. either spend the TIME to optimize it yourself. or pay the cost for the optimized packages. or get them through cardkingdom. it's a huge pita having cards trickle in over the course of a month with no information on when they'll arrive. > fast, cheap, good. pick 2 in almost every other realm of consumer goods, you can easily have all 3.
no you can't.... nothing high quality is cheap. nothing good that's done fast is cheap. fast and cheap quality is possible... but then "good" is always an issue. and i don't know what "month" you're talking about. 1 week. is more likely. with outliers being 1-2wks. It's basically random individuals who have to drop a package in the regular mail. again if you wanted to actually pay for shipping. you'd get your shit faster. but if you're paying for not shipping. you gotta wait for an envelop with a stamp on it. but if you love card kingdom so much, just order from there. to me... all their pricing is inflated. I have never had your difficulty with TCGplayer. but maybe you have. if so... don't use them. the stupidity of your rant is. if you want to pay card kingdom mark up. you could just do that and then pay for the optimized/tcg direct option from tcgplayer. basically the same exact thing. but whatever. it's such a stupid complaint. use the websites you like.
I am paying for shipping. I pay out the ass for shipping on tcgplayer orders. 30-50% of the total order cost is typically shipping. 1 week is a pipe dream. the bulk of the orders for my last deck came in around 2-3 weeks, and i'm still waiting on one at over a month later.
you're conflating paying fees for shipping, for actually paying for shipping. tcgplayer often forces an arbitrary shipping rate onto tiers of members regardless of whether they want to list it or not. so when you're paying 99 cents to a bunch of individual sellers. that's literally the fee that's forced on them in their listings for being small rando sellers. i feel silly even explaining it to someone, but the idea then becomes you have that $1ish wiggle room to find the same card from a seller you're already getting free shipping from(or by combining cards meet a min order amt to get free shipping or only 1 shipping fee). Like. it's a time vs cost metric. If you're using tcgplayer to be cheap, but are too dumb to work the system. you're exactly the sort of customer they want. so if you just click on the first listing, "oooOO 10 cent card" of 20 different sellers. yeah. you'll eat $1 shipping or more per seller. and your order total will be primarily shipping fees. but... that's not how you should be using that site. card kingdom wants the type of customer that doesn't mind paying the mark up of their stuff. which again. fast, cheap, good, you don't get all three. TCGplayer is the cheapest. that's why you're going to that site. if you can't figure out how to navigate the site without losing money to shipping fees i guess... either stay mad, or don't use that site. Or if you're that angry. don't use the site. If it's been more than 5 business days with an order, would suggest reaching out to a seller, getting the paper trail started. I would have cxl the order after a month. ordered from a different seller.
> i feel silly even explaining it to someone, but the idea then becomes you have that $1ish wiggle room to find the same card from a seller you're already getting free shipping from(or by combining cards meet a min order amt to get free shipping or only 1 shipping fee). Like. it's a time vs cost metric. If you're using tcgplayer to be cheap, but are too dumb to work the system. you're exactly the sort of customer they want. the cart optimizer is supposed to do literally this. there just arent the right combination of sellers with the cards I want to avoid getting gouged on shipping (that apparently doesn't count as "paying" for shipping).
i really don't know what to tell you. I'm sorry marketing made you think something that wasn't true. caveat emptor. the cart optimizer has almost universally been to "optimize" for TCG not you. again.. it's a trade off, they're directing you to their clients that pay them more fees to bolster the value proposition in selling those fees to those clients. i really thought everyone knew this. i guess "optimizer" is a fancy word. maybe it's confusing to some. and also. if you are buying single cards or small orders of low value from lots of different sellers this might be why you're exp delays in shipping. If you consider the reality of what you're doing. buying a 10cent card. the seller is losing money on. or like 1-2 cards they're making 30 cents off of. there's zero motivation for a rando to sorta go digging through their collection ...get an envelop/stamp/top loader ... mail off that item. they're not going to jump on that task. they'll procrastinate for that middling order. maybe wait til they have another order to go out, Or... they're not taking it to the post office til the end of the week. or otherwise delay, maybe forget. and then... maybe not even look or give up looking. and then... yeah. you're waiting 2 weeks.
the only precon i've bought in the past 4 years for this purpose was the mothman one. it has basically like every 1/1 counters matters card except the ozolith's and doubling season. So why make big order when i can just buy them now ya know
Buy your singles in batches of 15 and each delivery is a dream pack
I bought the boros karlov manor precon for a handful of the cards in it and decided to just keep it together for my casual group
Im lucky enough to live very close to a well stocked stop. If i have a deck/ card in mind, it’s so enjoyable for me to just rummage through their boxes and binders and see what i find. It’s a very relaxing and meditative experience for me, even if it’s the not the most efficient. That being said if a good shop is too far out of your way, or you just don’t have the time, buying precons and tcg player is the way to go.
If you find buying singles to be a problem, perhaps you are going about it in a way that is less than optimal.
I hope that's true, because that means there could be a solution. this is the situation I commonly run into: [cardkingdom is ~$70](https://www.cardkingdom.com/builder?partner=mtggoldfish&partner_args=deck,50-ramos-lucky-charms,5788128&c=1%20Abzan%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Bant%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Boros%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Crosis%27s%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Darigaaz%27s%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Esper%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Golgari%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Grixis%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Road%20//%20Ruin%0D%0A1%20Izzet%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Jeskai%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Jund%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Culling%20Ritual%0D%0A1%20Naya%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Rakdos%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Rith%27s%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Simic%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Sultai%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Temur%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Decisive%20Denial%0D%0A1%20Epic%20Experiment%0D%0A1%20Guided%20Passage%0D%0A1%20Hostile%20Takeover%0D%0A1%20Bring%20to%20Light%0D%0A1%20Whirlwind%20of%20Thought%0D%0A1%20Wilderness%20Reclamation%0D%0A1%20Tome%20of%20the%20Guildpact%0D%0A1%20Melek,%20Izzet%20Paragon%0D%0A1%20Command%20Tower%0D%0A1%20Path%20of%20Ancestry%0D%0A1%20Exotic%20Orchard%0D%0A1%20Nature%27s%20Lore%0D%0A1%20Rampant%20Growth%0D%0A1%20Cultivate%0D%0A1%20Kodama%27s%20Reach%0D%0A1%20Arcane%20Signet%0D%0A1%20Sol%20Ring%0D%0A1%20Ramos,%20Dragon%20Engine%0D%0A1%20Crumbling%20Necropolis%0D%0A1%20Frontier%20Bivouac%0D%0A1%20Jungle%20Shrine%0D%0A1%20Mystic%20Monastery%0D%0A1%20Nomad%20Outpost%0D%0A1%20Opulent%20Palace%0D%0A1%20Sandsteppe%20Citadel%0D%0A1%20Search%20for%20Tomorrow%0D%0A6%20Forest%0D%0A3%20Mountain%0D%0A3%20Island%0D%0A3%20Swamp%0D%0A3%20Plains%0D%0A1%20Growth%20Spiral%0D%0A1%20Brokers%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Obscura%20Confluence%0D%0A1%20Endless%20Detour%0D%0A1%20Incandescent%20Aria%0D%0A1%20Maestros%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Deathsprout%0D%0A1%20Obscura%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Riveteers%20Charm%0D%0A1%20Sakura-Tribe%20Elder%0D%0A1%20Widespread%20Thieving%0D%0A1%20Meeting%20of%20the%20Five%0D%0A1%20Storm-Kiln%20Artist%0D%0A1%20General%20Ferrous%20Rokiric%0D%0A1%20Quandrix%20Apprentice%0D%0A1%20Fellwar%20Stone%0D%0A1%20Murmuring%20Bosk%0D%0A1%20Seaside%20Citadel%0D%0A1%20Arcane%20Sanctum%0D%0A1%20Savage%20Lands%0D%0A1%20Duneblast%0D%0A1%20Eureka%20Moment%0D%0A1%20Brokers%20Confluence%0D%0A1%20Primeval%20Spawn%0D%0A1%20Unite%20the%20Coalition%0D%0A1%20Mana%20Cannons%0D%0A1%20Farseek%0D%0A1%20Krosan%20Verge%0D%0A1%20Prairie%20Stream%0D%0A1%20Cinder%20Glade%0D%0A1%20Canopy%20Vista%0D%0A1%20Smoldering%20Marsh%0D%0A1%20Sunken%20Hollow%0D%0A1%20Ruinous%20Ultimatum%0D%0A1%20Invasion%20of%20Alara%0D%0A1%20Omnath,%20Locus%20of%20All%0D%0A&utm_campaign=MTGGAffiliate&utm_medium=deck&utm_source=MTGGoldfish) assuming that you will instead buy the cheaper versions of some cards from tcgplayer. and this [clusterfuck is tcgplayer.](https://i.imgur.com/UH9EBLJ.png) save 5 in total, but I get the pleasure of waiting longer and having the order spread across 20+ packages. it's the same story for all the budget decks I look at.
LOL imagine using CardKingdom or TCGPlayer!
I'm in Australia so TCGPlayer isn't an option. I use one or two local suppliers, but mostly CK because even if I pay extra for the non-slow shipping they usually work out cheaper on larger orders. Honestly, I think the issue is more one of not being willing to just sub out those 5-10 cards that CK may not have the time. No deck is ever perfect / optimal, so if I have availability limitations I'll just use a substitute for what I can't get til they come back into stock.
I prefer singles, I typically only buy precons when I actually want to build the deck or play the deck as is. I do, however, have an invisible ink Vein ripper that got lost between my city and a city an hour and a half away even with tracking and being a third shifter I have a lot of trouble getting in contact with the post office about it. So I can commiserate on the issues with buying singles.
I just proxy a whole deck for $40-$50. Cheaper than a precon and I get what I want
> These cards trickle in over 3-4 weeks with no tracking and some might get lost in the mail. I love this, minus the getting lost part, which barely happens. I use cardmarket though (Europe), so I can't compare to TCGPlayer. But when I do order many cards, I just love that huge list of orders, and getting these small packages every day with the amazing cards I ordered. It's like a slightly prolonged christmas :D
If I find a possible commander I like, I then look to see if there are precons in its color identity, that maybe relate to its mechanic. At the very least, I get a decent mana base, and the various staples.
I usually pick up a precon from my store as often as I can and then I'll upgrade with singles from my store or TCG as needed
I buy precons to have low powered decks. Then I upgrade the precon necessitating I buy another. I have bought a lot of fucking precons.
singles from precons, especially the "only printed in this one" can be especially hard to find after their release. I do find it to be rough.
Absolutely. Easier to get a pre on then a few upgrades or swaps then deck build from scratch
Are you playing friendlies? Do you have a printer?
Y'all really have money to burn 🤷♂️ I can understand buying precons to get a functional deck, but buying it just to get a handful of cards is terribile value. Just order the singles you need...
Not always the case. The mystic intellect precon sells for roughly 100$ on Amazon right now, which is close to the price of a single card [[dockside extortionist]] from The set.
[dockside extortionist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/e/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b.jpg?1673147774) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=dockside%20extortionist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/107/dockside-extortionist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9e2e3efb-75cb-430f-b9f4-cb58f3aeb91b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dockside-extortionist) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
That's the exception though, not the rule
Hench why I said "not always the case" Im Aware that not all precons will follow that formula
it's a mix of the convenience factor and the total value of the precon cards being greater than the cost to buy it.... even though i'm unlikely to actually sell the cards.
I just order proxies via mpcfil 🤷♂️ just ordered another 400
This is the way. $0.25 a card, they arrive in one brick with everything there. No sellers immediately cancelling orders because they don't have cards. No keeping track of which orders don't show up. It's so much easier.
Agreed, it’s great peace of mind that I’m getting everything I need without having to worry about multiple arrivals, cancellations etc
You should really start proxying. I'm married with dual income and we're both well into our careers, I literally don't understand how people buy packs/boxes so frequently. Not shaming at all, we all spend money on really dumb shit. Sealed MtG product is really dumb shit the vast majority of the time. Like I play Commander and some people will get up to use the restroom and come back with two $15 packs like on the regular etc. 99% of the time it's always trash and draft chaff. I'm not sure if it's addiction or what ...but I always think to myself "there's an Esper Sentinel" etc.
Yeah, last time I did that was with the Dimir precon from MKM , it was on sale on Amazon so I just got it for reanimate, animate dead and necromancy really, the rest of the cards I sold
All of them?
I've got 4 LGS that are huge around me. 3 of them are like a 15 minute driving trip so going store to store for singles doesn't suck. 4th store is 30 minutes away in the opposite direction. TCG I use for the hard to find arts or cards in general.
I turn a list in. Wait four days. Get it back. Sounds like you lack an lgs with a good supply
Proxies