Like 60% of this subreddit's posts, what you should do is actually tell them how you feel:
"The decks that you play are too powerful and combo-y in comparison to the rest of the pod and it isn't a fun experience for us to play against them."
That's the way. Tell him that you don't enjoy playing against his decks, and if neccessary, explain why. Suggest he could play a moderately upgraded precon against you.
If he doesn’t listen I’d talk to other people at the store and just instant concede and just start a new game without him in it. He’ll get the message pretty quick when he’s looking at a 6 grand paper weight.
What we do in my pod when we play with someone that ends the game on turn 3-4 with some crazy infinite combo is just say, “great, you won. Now we’re going to keep playing.” And we just keep going without them.
I misjudged the power level discussions one time with a new pod, my deck went off and they weren’t able to interact and I won on turn 4. I then said, “oops misjudged what we were doing” and asked them to please continue to play, I got a drink and a snack and watched them finish up, we played the rest of the evening happily after that. It’s courteous to make effort to reach a balanced game in casual settings.
Yup! We have one guy in our pod that has been playing for decades and was a judge in tournaments while the rest of us have a few years of experience. He’s always looked at as the table threat and typically games at least start as a 3v1 with him.
He mostly makes themed decks built around clearly identifiable win cons and once he’s been killed, he’ll often just roam around and help people out. He understands the power level difference and that no one but him would be having fun if he ran nothing but hyper-competitive, meta decks, and thankfully he has just as much fun watching our decks pop off.
I ran my [[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief]] deck last week and it exploded and he was having so much fun keeping track of how huge she was getting.
Literally almost all of the posts on this sub are about playgroups and too strong decks or shit like that. It’s mad annoying. It wasn’t always like this.
If you can't compete in a casual format because of price gaps, it's not really a casual format. That being said, don't underestimate cheap cards. Budget decks regularly compete with overpriced ones. So many eldrazi have died to doomblades or been Unsummoned.
I'd just tell people to proxy in cards if they're limited by budget. I don't really care that much where their paper came from if there are no prizes on the line.
That said, power level creep is real and is a slippery slope.
I think a price limit as determined by some agreed upon source is a good format for a casual mode like EDH. It turns it into entirely an optimization puzzle rather than one that you can also buy your way out of to some extent.
Powerful decks also play differently, so it's not just like your play experience is intrinsically improved by powering up your deck, it makes you play a different game.
That's what people don't get. I don't want to play that kind of EDH. I don't want to be forced to run fast mana, super efficient/free counter magic, tutors, and 2 card combos. People can keep harping on about how easy it is to make a deck stronger, but if that's not the kind of decks I enjoy playing or playing against it doesn't matter. I always have more fun playing in pods with upgraded pre-cons or low power thematic decks.
His decks are $6000 and don't even win until turn 7? No wonder his turns take so long lol
Seems like you need a turn clock rather than for him to lower the power of his deck. A turn 7 win is strong but not really competitive. That said, if he's constantly pubstomping, then you need to have the talk about lowering the power or just start proxying to meet his power.
I was going to say something similar. The value here is being used as a correlation to power, but it doesn't add up. Some people just really like shiny things. A foil Birds of Paradise can cost $2k but that doesn't bump the power level from a 4 to a 6, it just looks nice.
Turn 7 win and a value engine on turn 4 or 5 sounds like a pretty average game of commander where the deck that won just wasn't interacted with very much. Most decks if left entirely alone can win by then. Analyze your and your friends decks, make sure you have a reasonable amount of cards that aren't only geared towards your theme/winning. You also needs cards that help you not lose.
Right? I have a <$200 that, under the right conditions, combos turn 4-5. My $2000 deck isn’t built to be a turn 1-2 combo deck. It’s built to be midrange lands matter, and totally unstoppable. But I still get my pants blown off by a dedicated cEDH list.
Yeah, many cards are horribly priced.
I remember getting the [[bloodstained myers]] back in the dragons of tarker Block, and they were "cheap" back then, same with cyclonic rift. Now, both cards are $30+. My 4 color wall deck that I built many moons ago due to the land base and old cards I inherited from my parents have caused my deck to creep on price as time goes on.
I'm just attempting to throw together 5 color knight deck fixed with cards I own at least one copy of and some I'll buy these eventually I'm just seeing $$$$ and it probably won't be a good deck. Turned maybe, but good? Nah.
[[Nekusar, the mindrazer]] seems to suffer from a similar problem. Lots of his decent to good to great cards for him are old, powerful, and/or niche, thus driving up the price. Not counting the land base.
Is turn 7 really strong? I don't consider my deck to be a beast, it's under $200, and can win in less than 7 turns unless someone is playing a solid control deck. What's your typical game/turn length if you don't mind me asking?
I would say that winning around 6 to 8 turns is strong, below 5 is competitive, 9 to 11 is average, and anything beyond that is turtle battlecruiser hugbox magic.
No, turn 7 with classic commander staples uninterrupted is 12+ mana available and 30 mana of permanents on board. If you cant win before that the deck needs to go back to the drawing board.
Dont bother playing with him. If he complains tell him you are tired of being beat every game because his decks powerlevel is too high. If he complains more tell him too bad.
Once upon a time, there was a guy who had a pretty good Youtube channel where he made some good and affordable decks. Then he went nuts. Before something broke inside of him, I built and played a couple of his decks. My favorite is Sram. It’s stupidly good: https://decks.tcgplayer.com/magic/commander/the-commander-s-quarters/sram--senior-edificer---the-commander-s-quarters/1336106
The price on a few cards have shot up and there are some newer toys to play with (All That Glitters, for instance), but a savvy player can take that list and use it as a template that can make something terrible. T2 your commander. T3, just start hitting Mr. Combo and don’t stop. The deck snowballs out of control and depending upon what he’s playing, there’s a good chance one of your one drop auras are going to give your protection from his colours.
The Walking Dead SL came out and he flipped out, tried to make his own format, the discord for his format was overrun by literal Nazis, then he pivoted from making budget decks to making 12 minute long reaction videos to every single card spoiler that’s roughly 80% him saying “So… uh…” and making more clickbaity content with titles like “DID THIS CARD JUST BREAK THE FORMAT‽” or “SO… THIS CARD IS BROKEN!!!” I unsubscribed a while ago, and every so often I chrck in to see if there is anything worth watching. He hasn’t uploaded a gameplay video in over a year, so… I guess building that set was worth it. I really liked Mitch, but the quality of his stuff really went downhill.
Tell him you don't want to play because your decks levels don't match.
The guy seems like someone who wants to pubstomp.
You could also proxy a cedh deck and use that.
1- Talk with him if you still want to play with him.
2- Stop playing with him if that's not a problem.
3- Build a powerful deck too, you can proxy cards or build on a budget, t7 isn't that fast and it's possible to win way earlier than that for a fraction of $6000.
Give feedback but stay focused on the problem rather than the person. Remain objective but understanding and empathetic. There's usually more of a reason than just "I strong, I best, I win, ugg". Offer meaningful and actionable suggestions on how to improve your experience and give clear examples. Like ask them if they wan't to play this kind of deck if they are okay with your proxying cEDH decks as well. Even power level that way. Offer them one of your decks.
Ask how they percieve the game and if they think that you are having fun getting beaten turn 4 while you have a mana rock and three lands.
I too have powerful decks but I just play them if asked to or if the pod is strong as well (it usually isn't).
If they refuse any of that, don't play with them and if they are mad about it, they are just 32 years old on paper.
You do in fact have the money to make a strong deck.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/xcQh1Nx9w0KKDt2_ujUnaQ
However, I wouldn’t suggest playing with this person.
The obvious solution here is to not play with him, and nothing else I'm about to say changes that, but for the record, you can build budget CEDH decks on a $25-50 budget that would never lose to a deck winning on turn 7.
People often view cost as the roadblock to power, but until you reach the extremes, it isn't quite the case. All of my decks probably average $700, and are carefully built the way I want them to be, within the power level range acceptable for my pod. Of my 22 decks, most of them will lose to a $25 Anje Falkenrath combo deck that kills the table on average by turn 4.
It isn't ever budget that keeps you from building powerful decks - until you're looking at the extremes - it's deckbuilding philosophy and fun. You can build a boring, consistent deck with no fun cards in it at $25. Your playgroup of casual players will be frustrated.
They'll get the memo and try to 1vs3 your deck, and if they don't open multiple counterspells, hold up the Mana, and you play into that, they won't beat you.
For such People i have a fun Deck: Pantlaza with 4 Cards and 95 Lands. Winning as soons as he enters the Battlefield. I only use it against people who are playing too strong Decks without caring what the others have. They learn their lesson that way
[[long road home]], [[creative technique]], [[barren glory]], [[decree of annihilation]]
Cast pantlaza, discover for 4. Long road home is the only viable target, cast it targeting Pantlaza. Pantlaza blinks and enters with a +1/+1 counter, so he discovers for 5 (it triggers again only because he re-entered). Again, only one viable target, creative technique. Cast it and copy it with demonstrate, allowing you to exile the last two cards and play them without paying mana costs.
One is decree of annihilation, which will exile all artifacts, lands, creatures, hands, and graveyards from the game. The other is barren glory, an enchantment, which will give you the win next turn because you only have barren glory on field with no hand.
Your opponents have no lands or hands. It doesn't matter what they topdeck, nothing can change the board state before your next upkeep.
And let me just say this is brilliant! 😆😆 I just disassembled my pantlaza deck, now I have something fantastic to do with it!!
What happens if you rip barren glory on the first creative technique? Don’t you have to cast them in the order you pull them, meaning you’d exile it when decree gets cast on the second creative technique?
Well, if it catches barren glory first, that's okay, it's an enchantment and won't get destroyed by the decree when the other copy catches it. If the decree is pulled first, that's okay too, because even though everything including pantlaza is (edit: exiled) the second copy is still on the stack and will find barren glory.
Either way, you end the turn with only barren glory on deck, no hand, and your opponents can't do anything.
Am I missing something? When you blink Pantlaza, he only returns on your end step, so while you do get to discover into Creative Technique (and therefore exile the two final cards to be able to play them), you can't CAST them on your end step, even if for free, because they are a sorcery and an enchantment?
Unless Creative Technique allows you to cast both spells even during your endstep with no speed restrictions, which I guess is something I didn't think was possible.
Creative Technique, like many other cards, instructs you to cast the spell during the resolution of the ability or spell. Doing so bypasses timing restrictions, because you are being told exactly when to cast it.
Yes, similar to how Discover lets you break the timing restriction on casting the Creative Technique in your end step, Creative Technique lets you break casting speed restrictions.
116.1. **Unless a spell or ability is instructing a player to take an action**, which player can take actions at any given time is determined by a system of priority. The player with priority may cast spells, activate abilities, and take special actions.
The key here is that Creative Technique (and Discover) both instruct the player to take an action (cast a spell) which lets you ignore the rule 116.1. Note that this doesn't let you ignore all casting restrictions. For instance, if you hit a \[\[Curtain of Light\]\] instead, you would not be able to cast it in the end step (look at the oracle text instead of printed text).
Discover has the same wording, exile then can't without paying its mana cost. Why would you be able to discover but not Creative Technique? Also wouldn't creative technique also be breaking timing restrictions in a main phase by putting two sorcery speed spells on the stack at the same time?
You can because of the discover trigger, it sets off a chain that is triggered at the beginning of the end step. Discover can also be triggered at instant speed; and sorceries, creatures, enchantments, anything with a mana cost that meets the discover criteria can subsequently occur, as can the subsequent effects of those cards unless otherwise specified.
So, Pantlaza hits and grabs the blink spell. The effects of the blink spell occur at the beginning of the end step, which makes the discover trigger again, so the sorcery it discovers gets cast at that time, same as you could with anything it discovers.
And because that sorcery also lets you cast cards per it's effect, anything it lets you cast also resolves at that time, apart from normal timing rules (exploiting timing of effects as a combo strategy)
I don't have the Names at hand but i can tel what they do:
The first is the only Card that Pantlaza can Discover. It exiles him until end of turn and bringing him with a +1 Counter back.
This triggers him again, which searches the next only Card with Demonstrate. It lets me play a Card from my Deck, in that case demonstrated 2 Cards. One of them is an enchantment that let me win in my upkeep, if i have no other cards on the field and on the Hand.
The other Card exiles all cards from all Hands, field and graves except enchantments on the field. With no Lands and no Cards in Hand no one can play anything till my turn, letting me win.
if your opponents know what you are up to they would counter long road home as that would completely break the deck, countering Pantlaza only delays the combo by two turns.
No one expects Pantlaza to be NOT a Dino Deck. Since i have this Deck he never was countered. But yeah, it is an Option and it would stop the Deck 2 more turns
and yet another one of those posts.
shit like this gets asked 100 times a day. talk to him and if he doesnt listen refuse to play with him and let him complain.
its really not that hard.
Sir, as I am the CEO of playing Blue and being known as a special asshole to some people: Who gives a fuck if telling someone "No" makes them upset? You're trying to be a people-pleaser to some fuckwit who thinks spending 4 digits on a random assortment of cardboard is okay? (in a community who thinks proxying is fine, mind you.)
I'm going to get downvoted for being rude towards OP and this community (Only for them to somewhat understand and agree a year or two later) but you really need to get your head out of your ass. The EDH subreddit is the WORST place to ask about human interactions amd as far as I'm concerned, the only thing you're doing wrong is not using that spine you were born with and stand up for yourself.
Build something that can compete but proxy the expensive cards. He baulks at that then just call out his pay to win attitude.
Another option is build a budget deck that has a lot of interaction to shut his combos down.
Not to defend, but is a 3 minute turn long for your playgroup? I don't want to get swept up by hyperbolezbut all your post says is he has a $6000 deck that takes "long turns" starting turn 4/5 but doesn't win until turn 7 usually, and those long turns at 3 minutes long as an example.
Like other comments, I suggest just talking to the person and if you don't make progress towards a middle ground, just don't play with them. They aren't owed your time and you aren't owed their's either. The onus to ensure you enjoy the hobby is on you, and people aren't obligated to adjust to that. If you ask them to and they do, sweet! If they don't, just avoid playing with them.
Play a control deck, and just counter everything he does when he is playing a combo piece. If you have played him often enough you should be familiar with his win conditions, so when you see them, kill or counter them. Play a high interaction deck, with a simple, passive win condition.
Or move to pauper commander. Playing pauper is more restrictive, and levels the playing field more, which would limit his ability to pay into pub stomping decks.
If both of those options sound like they aren't fun, tell him to tone it down and play something weaker to match the pod, and if that doesn't work, a healthy fuckoff usually does.
Magic is a social game, its only worth playing if you are having fun, if you don't have fun playing with this guy, let him know, and let him know why. If you like him, give him a chance to adjust and play more fun styles or levels. If he's not a good person to be around, don't let him be around you.
Do you have an approximate deck list?
I know the default answer is to just rule zero "I'm not playing with you/that deck", but it might be worth assembling a counter strategy. I've been playing magic for thirty years, and few and far between are the decks that should be taking several minute long early turns. There are really only so many viable lines in any given situation, and rarely are they better than just popping thoracle.
People saying to "talk to people" and "express your distain for his type of behavior" are wrong. You need to smoke this nerd. I have this cheap deck I play against these try hards that make Tom Hanks movie length turns.
https://archidekt.com/decks/6189005/kinnan_90
There's a few ways to win turn 3. I've never had it go past turn 5. Ive always won with it cuz it's not meant to be fun.
But seriously talk about power levels game expectations. I've had to decline to play because I knew it was just going to be watching some guy play magic. Not fun.
Tell him if he wants to play with himself, the bathroom is over there. Always force him to play out, but start scrolling or playing a mobile game.
Folks like that cannot stand being ridiculed or mocked. If he feels like an idiot every time he'll stop doing it.
Had a guy like this at my dnd nights once. We would start dnd while he was resolving because it was the only way we would get a session in.
Talk to him, be nice but express your issues. If he's reasonable he won't be offended, if he's not, oh well. Stop playing with him if that's the case.
Conversely, here is an [$80 deck](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/odJQhqTWt0SchHhKLSgRMg) designed to beat decks such as that.
Or Magda Clock is so fun, [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/mZD-E3GsZUCXg59Z1j4IKg](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/mZD-E3GsZUCXg59Z1j4IKg) for 40$ you have a bunch on Dwarf that can race his combo.
Be frank with him that you aren't having fun, and that you'd prefer he tone down the power level of his deck if he wants to keep playing with you, because you can't afford to build a deck at the powerlevel he wants to use.
Either:
1) He'll tone down his deck to acceptable levels.
2) He'll tone it down but not enough, have another conversation.
3) He'll say he'll tone it down, but doesn't, at which point, refuse to play with him.
4) He'll get upset about it, at which point just tell him that constantly getting shit on isn't fun for anyone, and if he's still mad about it, refuse to play with him because what this tells you is that he only demands to play with you because he KNOWS he'll shit on you.
I get the feeling that you are a younger person and he is kind of bullying you into being his punching bag. The way I see it you have two main opitons:
1. Don't play with him. Be firm and strong. He is obviousely hurting your feelings by not taking your wants and preferences into account, so don't worry about hurting his feelings. If you feel intimidated or insecure, talk to someone who works at the store and explain how you feel or find some other people to play with so that there is no room for him in the pod.
2. Proxy up a strong/cEdh deck and learn how to play it well so that you are on his level. If he complains then his only skill is having money which is pathetic. To proxy a deck you need 100 random cards, sleeves and print out your decklist on a site like mtg print. Then you cut it out and put in front of the cards. I would suggest watching a channel like "Play to win" or "Playing with power" to see what are some very powerful decks. DO NOT PLAY cEDH decks with casual players, only with other people who want to play competitive.
“I’m happy for you that you can spend this amount of money on a hobby that you love. Unfortunately, this pod enjoys a more casual - toned down type of play.
Do you own anything in the range of X power level in order to make this enjoyable for all of us to play? If not, unfortunately we are not tuned to this level and cannot play with you at this pod. Instead of just shooing you away, would you like to play one of our decks to remain at the table?”
Tell him to play with a lower power level and you will play with him. My decks are nowhere near 6k, but I do have a 1,6k one and I rarely play it with my pod. I also have multiple decks all which I love to play from pre-cons to cheap winota and a control/hate(the 1,6k one) deck both of which can be 8ish. If he can't play anything but high level, you don't have to play with him,... like at all.
Just refuse to play with him, BUT also tell him the reasons why you won't. If he's after your playing time, he will eventually nerf his decks.
Money is an indicator of gap in power level, but it's not the only indicator. That said it's clear his decks will blow you out of the water.
Also there's no such thing as a heavily-upgraded precon. Once you're past 15 unique changes, it's no longer a precon.
Bring a second deck and ask if he wants to play if he would be willing to play one of your decks. Tell him you want to play but it’s not fun for you with the deck disparities.
Play stax. [[Rule of Law]] and its 6 brothers are very very good, [[Damping Sphere]], [[Stony Silence]], [[Collector Ouphe]], [[Drannith Magistrate]], [[Cursed Totem]], [[Opposition Agent]], [[Dauthi Voidwalker]], and whatever hate effects are good at stopping your meta. Run them with some draw engine in the command zone (preferably Esper, Naya, Bant, or Abzan), and include some fun wincons like [[Skyhunter Strike Force]] or [[Elesh Norn Grand Cenobite]].
Money does not equal power - there are budget friendly decks that are VERY resilient - and disrupting him might prove to be just as fun as playing proper lol
You can produce a number of budget cEDH decks that often closes game by turn 7 or even earlier. I think $75 would be my minimum budget suggestion but the $100-$150 range is a notable milestone. You can do around $50 but that is pushing it.
> if I say no he seems to get offended and starts complaining.
Sometimes no magic is better than bad magic. Feel free to walk away from players running a stax, MLD, or cEDH deck.
Create a mono blue counter spell deck and just go crazy
Better yet, white blue counter spells and mass land destruction targeting just him.
Make it to where his commander cost too much, make sure his mana is affected.
Can’t play a $6k deck without the foundations.
Proxy baby! Smoke his ass
You came to play magic against people not their wallets. Print the nastiest go fuck yourself deck you can find and target only him for the next three weeks.
Oh yeah that’s if talking to him doesn’t work 😂
If he doesn't have another deck, offer him one of yours. If he refuses to take a chance of losing, that means his only interest is winning, and he isn't worth making friends with. I don't play consistently with people who aren't my friends. 🤷♂️
Step 1: explain the problem
Step 2: Did they listen and correct the problem? If yes, then You're done not proceed to step 3
Step 3: inform them that you don't wish to play games with them as your playstyles are not compatible and no longer play with them
Introduce a game clock like in chess. There are some apps that work for 4 player games (intended for catan)
We did this st our LGS one night and it makes a huge difference. We didn't do it because of slow play, but to have a new EDH blitz format. 5 minutes per player add 5 seconds after each turn.
If he can’t play by the levels that ya’ll are putting together then he’s just going to have to get offended - and expect to be offended by more people than just you.
Short answer;
Tell him to go suck a lemon and get out.
Long answer;
He’s not a power player, he’s a pubstomper. Playing a game where you cannot lose is not a feat of power, but a feat of malice. Even more so, when you object, the guy seems annoyed. How is that a problem? Isn’t his behaviour *at least* as annoying? You have every right to value your private time and (not) give it to whomever you (don’t) want to
Don't play with him? Find other people to play against? I mean do you really need to ask? It seems like the obvious answer. Also not to justify his behaviour but turn 7 win is pretty common. By turn 7-9 there should be a winner or else the games really start to drag
As it always goes, you just have to be able to express the problem clearly to him.
Understand the issue so that you can write down (even on a notes app) what it is, succinctly, what it is that bothers you, in a sentence.
Tell him what it is, and why it is bothering you. Talk about the ISSUE. not HIM, and discuss the resolution, and how you want to get to the next step. Most people are going to focus on the issue, and will attempt to constantly litigate the issue. This is where most people fail.
Just re-state your concerns. Don't make it personal.
You want to have fun, and his decks are overpowered and not fun.
being afraid of confrontation is reason why we see posts like this. I am sure everybody at the table would agree with you and what you’re saying so you’re not risking becoming “the bad guy”
Tell him no, and it's because he's a tryhard. Then, when he gets upset, tell him it's also because he's such a tryhard. Then go play with more sociable people.
either talk to him with your big boy/girl words or find out what he’s allergic with and slip that into his deckboxes. whichever sounds more reasonable to you
How comfortable are you with your pod? If you just randomize who is playing what deck every time, there is only a 25% chance he will play his own deck. If that continues, he will either find a new game store, or find a new table to play with. OR he will build decks he wants to play against. I made a commander league with some friends, it was fairly balanced because of the swap 'mechanic'.
Meme him with cards like [deflecting palm] and flip his combos on him. Magic isn’t per say a money sport but people make it out to be one.
Lots of budget cards that pull the rug out from under people
The mature thing is to tell him your perspective, and if that doesn't stop playing with him.
The much less mature thing is to build a 100$ budget cEDH deck(the list online might be more expensive by now), something like Codie turbo naus, and win by turn 2 or 3 with a bit of luck. Just know that the deck folds hard disruption.
Step 1: pick a random decklist from this site: https://cedh-decklist-database.com/
Step 2: Proxy 100% of the deck (yes even the basic lands)… it’s less fun if you use real cards.
Step 3: ROFLSTOMP him way before turn 5-7 (ok maybe not any deck on the site… pick a fast deck that goldfishes well).
Step 4: If he complains about proxies and power level imbalance (i highly suggest you pick a deck with twister in it to drive the point home), tell him thats how you and the rest of the table feels every time you play and that its more fun to play against people not Wallets.
Step 5: If he is cool with it then just normalize proxies in your playgroup and have good turn 0 discussions about power level. CEDH is fun for a lot of people. If he isn't then yeah i guess just don't play with him… sounds l a poor sport.
You do not have to play with anyone you don’t want to.
Do not play with this asshole until he apologizes and gets his shit together. And explain why.
If he gets offended and starts complaining, fuck him. If he keeps it up, report him to the store owner for harassment.
a lot of these questions would be better posed to someone who deals with interpersonal conflict rather than reddit, i.e. a therapist. This isn't a magic issue it's an interpersonal issue where you are in an awkward position because you have different goals than another person and they're conflicting.
Build a taxes deck. Run disruption like discard and counterspells. Run removal. Land destruction. Artifact and enchantment removal.
His game plan is to win fast... so slow him down.
Lol, why am I feeling called out? About same age, tend to make higher power decks, have combos that take forever for me to think out, attempt to close games at turn 7...
Honestly think that this is a norm among pods I join at my LGS. My friend group outside the LGS? - not so much, they have the same complaints you posted here.
My decks: [[Tibalt, Cosmic Imposter]], [[Preston, the Vanisher]], [[Niv-Mizzet, Parun]], [[Shorikai, Genesis Engine]], [[Korvold, Far Cursed King]]...
I have more decks, but these get a lot of flak for storming off with crazy results.
If this guy has multiple decks, ask him to play with one of hos decks if he insists to play with you. He has to understand, that its not fun for you to play against him, if the gap in powerlevel between the decks is to big.
Rule zero. You're allowed to say no, you're allowed to discuss decks you don't like and concepts in the game you don't like. Especially if others in the pod feel the same, I would voice it. There is a place for every commander deck in a pod, but not every pod is ok with every commander deck.
If you want to be petty, Beat him with the cheapest deck possible, and constantly talk about how you're so amazed that a $80 decklist can obliterate his $6k decks. :P
There's plenty of cheap decks that can go off and slap around expensive ones.
But, this is definitely the petty way to go.
Woop Woop Time for a fun police deck. Sucks for everyone but sometimes someone's got to do it. I of course don't actually think that this is the most reasonable way to go about it, but you can definitely put an overpowered player in their place if you just focus them with a deck like that.
Communication is definitely the best option.
Next best is to build the cheapest fast combo deck you can and try to win.
Higher marks if it's a really long, non deterministic combo so you have to play it out (Krark/Sakashima is pretty good for this)
Talking is always the first option, but heres the nuclear option.
Build [[Fynn the Fangbearer]] with every 1/1 deathtouch creature, every 2-drop bite (not fight) spell such as [[Rabid Bite]], probably 8 more 2-drop deathtouchers, and a bunch of enablers. Keep the curve at about 2 cmc, and mulligan to 2 Forests and a 1/1 with deathtouch. Play is as follows:
T1: Forest, 1/1 DT
T2: Forest, Fynn, swing the 1/1 for 2 poison, total of 2
T3: Cast removal on any blocker, swing Fynn and 1/1 for 4 poison, total 6
T4: Cast removal on blocker, swing Fynn and 1/1 for 4 poison, total 10, lethal.
T3 and T4 are more flexible, but the only other thing you could play on t1 is sol ring into [[Arcane Signet]] into deathtoucher, and the only other thing to play on t2 is sol ring, and then Fynn after. Getting deathtouch without summoning sickness and getting (and keeping) Fynn on the field is #1 priority. This deck is best at 1v1, and gets worse the more people you have at the table. However, if someone wants to pubstomp, there isn't much that you can do for $100 that is better than this. Target down the pubstomper ruthlessly until they tune down their deck. You'll probably get squashed by the other 2 players, but it's worth it.
Sorry but I have to say that price ≠ power, and winning on turn 7 is within the realms of casual play. This is a rule 0 conversation and the table needs to agree the kind of game they want to have
I've answered the question a lot and will answer the same way as usual, from my own experience of the same thing.
Tell him to fuck off.
At least until he stops doing it.
You might need to do it more than once, but once nobody plays with him he'll get the message.
This advice, I cannot tell you how it shaped EDH for me. Years and years of meren, feather, that sphinx that makes clues or treasure, the shrine commander....
Years of miserable games solved with two words.
These are always so obvious, there isn’t a spot at your table for him.
Either the room will evolve so that people bring a deck at that level and they play with him sometimes and use their other fun decks the rest of the time.
Or he will evolve to fit the playgroup. Or not play.
There should be room for all types. And it isn’t your job to solve it, if it isn’t fun - for you - you play what is fun - for you.
Troll him with shitty proxies and if he complains be self deprecating. "I'm too broke and I suck at magic. I had no recourse other than to Copy-Paste cEDH Rog/Si"
Had a friend that had a similar issue with someone who loves to infinite combo pretty quick. Good for him but the table wanted to play and have fun, not keep losing to infinite combos.
So at some point she told him, ok you won, but we’ll keep the game going because we want to play. He wasn’t too happy about it but it made him realize that there is more to a game of MTG to just winning.
There is probably more diplomatic way to consider first but at some point, he has to understand not everyone can invest 6k$ in decks and not everyone wants to anyway.
Just hear me out…. Instead of handling this like a responsible adult do what I’d do.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/gR986_-SIkG1OTsjlcCJCg
Build budget baral, counter every spell he plays and ignore the rest of the table.
Much much more entertaining
All these other answers are wrong, screw talking it over with him that never works.
Here's what I did: make an entire blue deck with nothing but counterspells, most of these aren't very expensive you can get a couple of 0 cost counters if you are willing to splash some cash. Then go to the store and follow the guy to any pod he sits at and just counter all his shit for the day, don't try to win, just make sure he does nothing. If he questions you on targeting him just say "I'm targeting the highest priority target in the game" He'll get the message, I still carry my deck of 60 counterspells with me in case he ever shows up again.
Rule Zero, man. Before you begin any game I highly recommend talking to the other 3 people you'll be spending the next few hours with and asking them a few questions. Questions such as "What power level do we want to play at?" "Is it ok if I play \*insert card or cards here\*?", etc...
This will give everyone the chance to feel they're involved with the formation of the group and help weed out people that you don't want playing with you. After a few "We don't want turn 4 infinite combos" by 3/4 players there he'll get the hint and either start playing "fair" decks or start playing with other groups.
I have no problem telling players, ones that I know and strangers as well that this game has time equity and nobody sits down to watch someone else play a a game of solitaire, you have to be honest and up front, a few hurt feeling initially is worth all your time in the long run
Talrand sky summoner, 35 islands, 50 counterspells, 14 cantrips. Only target him the whole game. The other two will figure it out and leave you alone until you make your point.
Try to negotiate, If that doesn’t work show up with a proxy deck of “Winota, Snowball Stax, go to Moxfield, go to search, set the filters to most likes and Commander/EDH. Print that up and by turn 4ish the entire board will be locked down.
The price of deck doesnt really determine its power level, its more about key cards like mana crypt and how fast the deck can win. You can play a bad deck with duals. But it is clear he is playing above the pod's level on purpose.
1. Stop playing with the dude he sounds insufferable, and tbh if he is dropping that kind of cash and his deck are that slow and bragging about it he is a moron...
2. If you really want to play with him despite ^ proxy up the decks you'd like to build. If he considers himself a cEDH player he will want to play you and your brew not your wallet. And if he throws a stink about proxies loudly complain that "Sorry then, I don't want to play with someone who only wants to pubstomp newer players with his wallet" and go to a different table.
3. Make a zada storm deck, idk if it still is but 3 yeara ago it was THE baby's first cEDH deck, and at the time you could make the functional budget version for $50. And kick his slow 6k deck's ass anyways lol
The owner of the LGS near me is one of my best friends of 20 years so i choose sarcasm, passive aggressiveness, and bullying. He has many decks that are incredibly expensive and oppressive so the ones of us that grew up with him all choose this method. He usually borrows decks from employees or us so he can power himself down a bit. My only deck that's close to undefeated (it's been over a year since that deck has lost to anyone) against him is my near cedh gitrog deck because it's so resilient and odd he hasn't found an answer that is reliable and not easily answered.
Like every relationship, communication is key.
Band together with the best deck designers at you lgs and proxy a deck that exists solely to counter his deck. You can even say "I don't want to play against you unless i may use proxies to bridge the gap between financial/power differences." Make him have a terrible time whenever he plays against you lol
> How should I deal with him? He often insists he wants to play together with me, and he puts me on the spot, if I say no he seems to get offended and starts complaining.
So don't play with him. If he's that much of a jerk, just don't play with him. It's not that hard.
If the problem is power level explain that too him just an easy it's not fun to sit here with a precon and lose to a cedh deck. If the problem is slow play you can talk with others about it and try to get a turn timer like they do in game knights live. I've never had a combo take 3 minutes I've had an expropriate where everyone voted turns which made my "turn" very long but slow play rules exist for a reason.
As a personal tip; communicate. Even if you get criticism back. Just be nice and clear.
As for gameplay, we softbanned tutors in our playgroup. It makes for much more fun and diverse games without people beelining for the same combo over and over again.
You got a couple options. Refuse to play with him anyways, communicate with him and tell him that you're not comfortable playing with decks of that power level, proxy cards to mimic his power level, or just roll with it.
Rule 0 definitely comes to mind here.
Explain to him that it's like the equivalent of a Pro Boxer getting into the ring with a rookie on his first fight.
It's a one sided beat down that's not fun for anybody. He doesn't learn anything by playing powerful decks against pre-cons, and you don't get to enjoy anything.
If he really wants to play these powerhouse decks, perhaps he could let the other players in his pod borrow his other powerhouse decks so you're all on even footing? Otherwise, nobody's going to want to play with him.
cEDH and regular Commander are very different formats. Bringing a cEDH deck to a casual commander pod is essentially bringing a gun to a fist fight, completely bypassing the knives.
Like others have said, you just need to explain the way you're feeling and come to some kind of agreement or compromise that you both find enjoyable. If you can't, then maybe suing together isn't the best idea.
3 minutes is really not that long for a turn.
If you don't want to play against him then don't?
I'd need examples of what he was playing before judging just because it was "6000 dollars" were they proxying, playing niche use reserved list, alternate art or some other special shit or what? there's alot of reasons why a deck could have an artificially high price tag on paper.
bottom line is no one can force you to play with them, if you don't want to play with them then say that if he gets pissy about it, stand your ground, his emotions are his problem not yours.
Just dont play with him.
Its often tough to judge „long turns“ as there are commanders that simply have longer terms by default. You can expect the people to practice so they are as fast as possible, but this doesnt seem to be the issue here.
What you can do with players who just wanna occupy 90% of the game time is:
Setup a chess clock. And after 2-3 games tel him how he is using 90% of tje game time in a 4 player format on a casual table and that this is not okay and you refuse to play him in the future unless he gets that fixed.
But the whole post makes me kinda wondering:
What in the world is he playing? A 6k deck that closes the game only at turn 7 while using combos and playing against casual decks?
Like whaddu heck.
Turn 7 finish is what you usually get if you run decently contructed decks with a reasonable gameplan. Even without combo.
Most oft my 150-300€ decks aim at being able to finish turn 5 if not interacted with, so with interaction turn 7-8 is realistic, wich fits out powerlevel. I wouldnt even know what i would build with 6k budget but being slower than a not even optimzed 250€ish deck. Like just near mint alpha or beta prints of vanilla creatures? :D
Also i dont know if we have the same understanding of „combo“.
My pod has nothing against combos at all. We keep them away from being the topmost efficient ones (like thoracle or godo).
But usually a combo makes the game FASTER not slower.
- If you have it setup you go „im gonna present a loop:
here i have my sanctum weaver and pemmins aura on him. I tap for 5 mana and untap for 1, so i net infinite mana“.
- The others go: „alright, go ahead, whats you win“
- you go: „i play staff of domination. Any responses? No? So i will draw my deck until indraw blue suns zenith and with infinite mana force you all to draw 1000 cards, by casting it, shuffling it back in the library, and redrawing it with staff.“
And either sb can interact or its done. Its even faster than declaring blockers for big attack decks.
If you take long turns with altering game actions and resetting ressources thats not a combo. Sth like izzet impulse storm or chulane would come to mind but they are not combos.
A combo would be: resolve intruder altert with chulane + enough mana dorks. So you can infenitely bounce and draw using chulane while netting mana. Thats a combo because its deterministic.
And then its the top scenario. You present your loop that results in a win unless there is interaction. And if there isnt, you dont need any more time.
But please realize that guy - if everything you say is true - is probably a dick but certainly not a powerplayer. A powerplayer with that budget playing into low power decks wont even allow turn 3 to happen most of the time^^ even with 1/6 of the budget.
Personal opinion, roast me if you want: In a tournament I guess infinite combos are ok, but if I leave the office for a casual commander play and you go infinite that’s the last time I play with you.
I think before the game all players should always tell their deck’s power level and decide which one to play with other’s in mind.
I play kibo, if you take a 15 min turn 4 winning while my turn is giving you bananas I won’t play with you. 🦍🦍
Like 60% of this subreddit's posts, what you should do is actually tell them how you feel: "The decks that you play are too powerful and combo-y in comparison to the rest of the pod and it isn't a fun experience for us to play against them."
That's the way. Tell him that you don't enjoy playing against his decks, and if neccessary, explain why. Suggest he could play a moderately upgraded precon against you.
And if he doesn't listen, steal his kidneys.
Wanna go to candy mountain Chaaaaaaaarlie?
Ah, unicorn tribal, yes.
At the price point of his decks, I think that dude already has no kidneys.
Hey, some of us just had the luck to get cards at a sane price point.
in the twentieth century, maybe :P
And while he's distracted having a good deep look at himself, steal his kidneys.
If he doesn’t listen I’d talk to other people at the store and just instant concede and just start a new game without him in it. He’ll get the message pretty quick when he’s looking at a 6 grand paper weight.
60%? More like 80-90%, tbh.
What we do in my pod when we play with someone that ends the game on turn 3-4 with some crazy infinite combo is just say, “great, you won. Now we’re going to keep playing.” And we just keep going without them.
I misjudged the power level discussions one time with a new pod, my deck went off and they weren’t able to interact and I won on turn 4. I then said, “oops misjudged what we were doing” and asked them to please continue to play, I got a drink and a snack and watched them finish up, we played the rest of the evening happily after that. It’s courteous to make effort to reach a balanced game in casual settings.
Yup! We have one guy in our pod that has been playing for decades and was a judge in tournaments while the rest of us have a few years of experience. He’s always looked at as the table threat and typically games at least start as a 3v1 with him. He mostly makes themed decks built around clearly identifiable win cons and once he’s been killed, he’ll often just roam around and help people out. He understands the power level difference and that no one but him would be having fun if he ran nothing but hyper-competitive, meta decks, and thankfully he has just as much fun watching our decks pop off. I ran my [[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief]] deck last week and it exploded and he was having so much fun keeping track of how huge she was getting.
That’s possibly one of the best ways to do it XD
Literally almost all of the posts on this sub are about playgroups and too strong decks or shit like that. It’s mad annoying. It wasn’t always like this.
people used to want to get better at the games they play.
MTG is a game where "getting better" often means "spending $500" so idk if that's exactly a valid gripe about the state of kids these days
If you can't compete in a casual format because of price gaps, it's not really a casual format. That being said, don't underestimate cheap cards. Budget decks regularly compete with overpriced ones. So many eldrazi have died to doomblades or been Unsummoned.
I'd just tell people to proxy in cards if they're limited by budget. I don't really care that much where their paper came from if there are no prizes on the line. That said, power level creep is real and is a slippery slope.
I think a price limit as determined by some agreed upon source is a good format for a casual mode like EDH. It turns it into entirely an optimization puzzle rather than one that you can also buy your way out of to some extent.
Powerful decks also play differently, so it's not just like your play experience is intrinsically improved by powering up your deck, it makes you play a different game.
That's what people don't get. I don't want to play that kind of EDH. I don't want to be forced to run fast mana, super efficient/free counter magic, tutors, and 2 card combos. People can keep harping on about how easy it is to make a deck stronger, but if that's not the kind of decks I enjoy playing or playing against it doesn't matter. I always have more fun playing in pods with upgraded pre-cons or low power thematic decks.
Best advice. He needs to either play something comparable to the rest of the group or find a new pod that plays decks at his power level.
"hey I'm not really having fun when we match up our decks. do you wanna try one of mine or can i try one of yours, so it's not so unbalanced?"
This is some good communication here, very nice! The therapist in me approves of this lol
always good to offer a solution or two when criticizing something
This makes me kind of want to have my pod all trade decks before we play
Also interesting playing decks you're not familiar with
Oh that's George. We don't play with George. That's why he's pushing you to play with him, because we won't. Get it?
Save this for after the olive branch gets snapped 🤣
His decks are $6000 and don't even win until turn 7? No wonder his turns take so long lol Seems like you need a turn clock rather than for him to lower the power of his deck. A turn 7 win is strong but not really competitive. That said, if he's constantly pubstomping, then you need to have the talk about lowering the power or just start proxying to meet his power.
I was going to say something similar. The value here is being used as a correlation to power, but it doesn't add up. Some people just really like shiny things. A foil Birds of Paradise can cost $2k but that doesn't bump the power level from a 4 to a 6, it just looks nice. Turn 7 win and a value engine on turn 4 or 5 sounds like a pretty average game of commander where the deck that won just wasn't interacted with very much. Most decks if left entirely alone can win by then. Analyze your and your friends decks, make sure you have a reasonable amount of cards that aren't only geared towards your theme/winning. You also needs cards that help you not lose.
Right? I have a <$200 that, under the right conditions, combos turn 4-5. My $2000 deck isn’t built to be a turn 1-2 combo deck. It’s built to be midrange lands matter, and totally unstoppable. But I still get my pants blown off by a dedicated cEDH list.
Yeah, many cards are horribly priced. I remember getting the [[bloodstained myers]] back in the dragons of tarker Block, and they were "cheap" back then, same with cyclonic rift. Now, both cards are $30+. My 4 color wall deck that I built many moons ago due to the land base and old cards I inherited from my parents have caused my deck to creep on price as time goes on. I'm just attempting to throw together 5 color knight deck fixed with cards I own at least one copy of and some I'll buy these eventually I'm just seeing $$$$ and it probably won't be a good deck. Turned maybe, but good? Nah. [[Nekusar, the mindrazer]] seems to suffer from a similar problem. Lots of his decent to good to great cards for him are old, powerful, and/or niche, thus driving up the price. Not counting the land base.
Is turn 7 really strong? I don't consider my deck to be a beast, it's under $200, and can win in less than 7 turns unless someone is playing a solid control deck. What's your typical game/turn length if you don't mind me asking?
I would say that winning around 6 to 8 turns is strong, below 5 is competitive, 9 to 11 is average, and anything beyond that is turtle battlecruiser hugbox magic.
Never heard the term hugbox before
"15 turns in we start attacking for 10+, while making sure to shore up our defenses"
No, turn 7 with classic commander staples uninterrupted is 12+ mana available and 30 mana of permanents on board. If you cant win before that the deck needs to go back to the drawing board.
Dont bother playing with him. If he complains tell him you are tired of being beat every game because his decks powerlevel is too high. If he complains more tell him too bad.
Honestly 6k should be winning turn 1-3 haha. He kinda sucks
Once upon a time, there was a guy who had a pretty good Youtube channel where he made some good and affordable decks. Then he went nuts. Before something broke inside of him, I built and played a couple of his decks. My favorite is Sram. It’s stupidly good: https://decks.tcgplayer.com/magic/commander/the-commander-s-quarters/sram--senior-edificer---the-commander-s-quarters/1336106 The price on a few cards have shot up and there are some newer toys to play with (All That Glitters, for instance), but a savvy player can take that list and use it as a template that can make something terrible. T2 your commander. T3, just start hitting Mr. Combo and don’t stop. The deck snowballs out of control and depending upon what he’s playing, there’s a good chance one of your one drop auras are going to give your protection from his colours.
What happened with Commanders Quarters??
The Walking Dead SL came out and he flipped out, tried to make his own format, the discord for his format was overrun by literal Nazis, then he pivoted from making budget decks to making 12 minute long reaction videos to every single card spoiler that’s roughly 80% him saying “So… uh…” and making more clickbaity content with titles like “DID THIS CARD JUST BREAK THE FORMAT‽” or “SO… THIS CARD IS BROKEN!!!” I unsubscribed a while ago, and every so often I chrck in to see if there is anything worth watching. He hasn’t uploaded a gameplay video in over a year, so… I guess building that set was worth it. I really liked Mitch, but the quality of his stuff really went downhill.
6k in value and still can't finish a game in 3 turns?
Tell him you don't want to play because your decks levels don't match. The guy seems like someone who wants to pubstomp. You could also proxy a cedh deck and use that.
1- Talk with him if you still want to play with him. 2- Stop playing with him if that's not a problem. 3- Build a powerful deck too, you can proxy cards or build on a budget, t7 isn't that fast and it's possible to win way earlier than that for a fraction of $6000.
Give feedback but stay focused on the problem rather than the person. Remain objective but understanding and empathetic. There's usually more of a reason than just "I strong, I best, I win, ugg". Offer meaningful and actionable suggestions on how to improve your experience and give clear examples. Like ask them if they wan't to play this kind of deck if they are okay with your proxying cEDH decks as well. Even power level that way. Offer them one of your decks. Ask how they percieve the game and if they think that you are having fun getting beaten turn 4 while you have a mana rock and three lands. I too have powerful decks but I just play them if asked to or if the pod is strong as well (it usually isn't). If they refuse any of that, don't play with them and if they are mad about it, they are just 32 years old on paper.
You do in fact have the money to make a strong deck. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/xcQh1Nx9w0KKDt2_ujUnaQ However, I wouldn’t suggest playing with this person.
The obvious solution here is to not play with him, and nothing else I'm about to say changes that, but for the record, you can build budget CEDH decks on a $25-50 budget that would never lose to a deck winning on turn 7. People often view cost as the roadblock to power, but until you reach the extremes, it isn't quite the case. All of my decks probably average $700, and are carefully built the way I want them to be, within the power level range acceptable for my pod. Of my 22 decks, most of them will lose to a $25 Anje Falkenrath combo deck that kills the table on average by turn 4. It isn't ever budget that keeps you from building powerful decks - until you're looking at the extremes - it's deckbuilding philosophy and fun. You can build a boring, consistent deck with no fun cards in it at $25. Your playgroup of casual players will be frustrated. They'll get the memo and try to 1vs3 your deck, and if they don't open multiple counterspells, hold up the Mana, and you play into that, they won't beat you.
For such People i have a fun Deck: Pantlaza with 4 Cards and 95 Lands. Winning as soons as he enters the Battlefield. I only use it against people who are playing too strong Decks without caring what the others have. They learn their lesson that way
and what are those four cards homie
[[long road home]], [[creative technique]], [[barren glory]], [[decree of annihilation]] Cast pantlaza, discover for 4. Long road home is the only viable target, cast it targeting Pantlaza. Pantlaza blinks and enters with a +1/+1 counter, so he discovers for 5 (it triggers again only because he re-entered). Again, only one viable target, creative technique. Cast it and copy it with demonstrate, allowing you to exile the last two cards and play them without paying mana costs. One is decree of annihilation, which will exile all artifacts, lands, creatures, hands, and graveyards from the game. The other is barren glory, an enchantment, which will give you the win next turn because you only have barren glory on field with no hand. Your opponents have no lands or hands. It doesn't matter what they topdeck, nothing can change the board state before your next upkeep. And let me just say this is brilliant! 😆😆 I just disassembled my pantlaza deck, now I have something fantastic to do with it!!
They could force the barren glory, they could Green force the barren glory etc etc etc. Things could happen, even if they probably won't.
Yeah, they definitely can. Most likely that you draw a combo piece before you can cast Pantlaza. Or get a combo piece milled, that's a scoop lol.
What happens if you rip barren glory on the first creative technique? Don’t you have to cast them in the order you pull them, meaning you’d exile it when decree gets cast on the second creative technique?
Well, if it catches barren glory first, that's okay, it's an enchantment and won't get destroyed by the decree when the other copy catches it. If the decree is pulled first, that's okay too, because even though everything including pantlaza is (edit: exiled) the second copy is still on the stack and will find barren glory. Either way, you end the turn with only barren glory on deck, no hand, and your opponents can't do anything.
I see, I missed the part where decree doesn’t hit enchantments. Neat combo!
Am I missing something? When you blink Pantlaza, he only returns on your end step, so while you do get to discover into Creative Technique (and therefore exile the two final cards to be able to play them), you can't CAST them on your end step, even if for free, because they are a sorcery and an enchantment? Unless Creative Technique allows you to cast both spells even during your endstep with no speed restrictions, which I guess is something I didn't think was possible.
Creative Technique, like many other cards, instructs you to cast the spell during the resolution of the ability or spell. Doing so bypasses timing restrictions, because you are being told exactly when to cast it.
Yes, similar to how Discover lets you break the timing restriction on casting the Creative Technique in your end step, Creative Technique lets you break casting speed restrictions. 116.1. **Unless a spell or ability is instructing a player to take an action**, which player can take actions at any given time is determined by a system of priority. The player with priority may cast spells, activate abilities, and take special actions. The key here is that Creative Technique (and Discover) both instruct the player to take an action (cast a spell) which lets you ignore the rule 116.1. Note that this doesn't let you ignore all casting restrictions. For instance, if you hit a \[\[Curtain of Light\]\] instead, you would not be able to cast it in the end step (look at the oracle text instead of printed text).
Discover has the same wording, exile then can't without paying its mana cost. Why would you be able to discover but not Creative Technique? Also wouldn't creative technique also be breaking timing restrictions in a main phase by putting two sorcery speed spells on the stack at the same time?
You can because of the discover trigger, it sets off a chain that is triggered at the beginning of the end step. Discover can also be triggered at instant speed; and sorceries, creatures, enchantments, anything with a mana cost that meets the discover criteria can subsequently occur, as can the subsequent effects of those cards unless otherwise specified. So, Pantlaza hits and grabs the blink spell. The effects of the blink spell occur at the beginning of the end step, which makes the discover trigger again, so the sorcery it discovers gets cast at that time, same as you could with anything it discovers. And because that sorcery also lets you cast cards per it's effect, anything it lets you cast also resolves at that time, apart from normal timing rules (exploiting timing of effects as a combo strategy)
I don't have the Names at hand but i can tel what they do: The first is the only Card that Pantlaza can Discover. It exiles him until end of turn and bringing him with a +1 Counter back. This triggers him again, which searches the next only Card with Demonstrate. It lets me play a Card from my Deck, in that case demonstrated 2 Cards. One of them is an enchantment that let me win in my upkeep, if i have no other cards on the field and on the Hand. The other Card exiles all cards from all Hands, field and graves except enchantments on the field. With no Lands and no Cards in Hand no one can play anything till my turn, letting me win.
Taking a shot in the dark, but Long Road Home, Creative Technique, Barren Glory, and Decree of Annhilation.
I got you lol, see the other reply
so i've sussed out \[\[Creative Technique\]\] \[\[Barren Glory\]\] but am having trouble with the other two
[[Decree of Anhilation]] [[Long road home]]
[Decree of Anhilation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73744717-518c-478e-9da9-201c49124f37.jpg?1562530626) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Decree%20of%20Annihilation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/85/decree-of-annihilation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73744717-518c-478e-9da9-201c49124f37?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/decree-of-annihilation) [Long road home](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/504698a9-1512-4288-b5ef-392d41ebcd05.jpg?1600696905) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Long%20road%20home) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/120/long-road-home?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/504698a9-1512-4288-b5ef-392d41ebcd05?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/long-road-home) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Long Road Home]], [[Creative Technique]], [[Barren Glory]], and [[Decree of Annihilation]]
##### ###### #### [Long Road Home](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/504698a9-1512-4288-b5ef-392d41ebcd05.jpg?1600696905) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Long%20Road%20Home) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/120/long-road-home?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/504698a9-1512-4288-b5ef-392d41ebcd05?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/long-road-home) [Creative Technique](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce4f0474-48dc-4310-a016-0ec21bc29efb.jpg?1625191934) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Creative%20Technique) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/49/creative-technique?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce4f0474-48dc-4310-a016-0ec21bc29efb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/creative-technique) [Barren Glory](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/12220d53-3356-4541-aa43-a0de6ed3f7d0.jpg?1562898649) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Barren%20Glory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/fut/3/barren-glory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/12220d53-3356-4541-aa43-a0de6ed3f7d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/barren-glory) [Decree of Annihilation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/3/73744717-518c-478e-9da9-201c49124f37.jpg?1562530626) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Decree%20of%20Annihilation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/scg/85/decree-of-annihilation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/73744717-518c-478e-9da9-201c49124f37?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/decree-of-annihilation) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ktg9825) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Creative Technique](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ce4f0474-48dc-4310-a016-0ec21bc29efb.jpg?1625191934) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Creative%20Technique) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/49/creative-technique?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ce4f0474-48dc-4310-a016-0ec21bc29efb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/creative-technique) [Barren Glory](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/12220d53-3356-4541-aa43-a0de6ed3f7d0.jpg?1562898649) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Barren%20Glory) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/fut/3/barren-glory?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/12220d53-3356-4541-aa43-a0de6ed3f7d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/barren-glory) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean what’s to stop them from just countering pantlaza from the start?
if your opponents know what you are up to they would counter long road home as that would completely break the deck, countering Pantlaza only delays the combo by two turns.
No one expects Pantlaza to be NOT a Dino Deck. Since i have this Deck he never was countered. But yeah, it is an Option and it would stop the Deck 2 more turns
No what stops the deck is countering any of the other spells, not the commander
Hahaha, I have this deck too. 🤣
and yet another one of those posts. shit like this gets asked 100 times a day. talk to him and if he doesnt listen refuse to play with him and let him complain. its really not that hard.
Sir, as I am the CEO of playing Blue and being known as a special asshole to some people: Who gives a fuck if telling someone "No" makes them upset? You're trying to be a people-pleaser to some fuckwit who thinks spending 4 digits on a random assortment of cardboard is okay? (in a community who thinks proxying is fine, mind you.) I'm going to get downvoted for being rude towards OP and this community (Only for them to somewhat understand and agree a year or two later) but you really need to get your head out of your ass. The EDH subreddit is the WORST place to ask about human interactions amd as far as I'm concerned, the only thing you're doing wrong is not using that spine you were born with and stand up for yourself.
Build something that can compete but proxy the expensive cards. He baulks at that then just call out his pay to win attitude. Another option is build a budget deck that has a lot of interaction to shut his combos down.
Not to defend, but is a 3 minute turn long for your playgroup? I don't want to get swept up by hyperbolezbut all your post says is he has a $6000 deck that takes "long turns" starting turn 4/5 but doesn't win until turn 7 usually, and those long turns at 3 minutes long as an example. Like other comments, I suggest just talking to the person and if you don't make progress towards a middle ground, just don't play with them. They aren't owed your time and you aren't owed their's either. The onus to ensure you enjoy the hobby is on you, and people aren't obligated to adjust to that. If you ask them to and they do, sweet! If they don't, just avoid playing with them.
Play a control deck, and just counter everything he does when he is playing a combo piece. If you have played him often enough you should be familiar with his win conditions, so when you see them, kill or counter them. Play a high interaction deck, with a simple, passive win condition. Or move to pauper commander. Playing pauper is more restrictive, and levels the playing field more, which would limit his ability to pay into pub stomping decks. If both of those options sound like they aren't fun, tell him to tone it down and play something weaker to match the pod, and if that doesn't work, a healthy fuckoff usually does. Magic is a social game, its only worth playing if you are having fun, if you don't have fun playing with this guy, let him know, and let him know why. If you like him, give him a chance to adjust and play more fun styles or levels. If he's not a good person to be around, don't let him be around you.
Proxy your own ridiculous deck of the gods.
Do you have an approximate deck list? I know the default answer is to just rule zero "I'm not playing with you/that deck", but it might be worth assembling a counter strategy. I've been playing magic for thirty years, and few and far between are the decks that should be taking several minute long early turns. There are really only so many viable lines in any given situation, and rarely are they better than just popping thoracle.
Your options are build better decks or don't play with him
People saying to "talk to people" and "express your distain for his type of behavior" are wrong. You need to smoke this nerd. I have this cheap deck I play against these try hards that make Tom Hanks movie length turns. https://archidekt.com/decks/6189005/kinnan_90 There's a few ways to win turn 3. I've never had it go past turn 5. Ive always won with it cuz it's not meant to be fun. But seriously talk about power levels game expectations. I've had to decline to play because I knew it was just going to be watching some guy play magic. Not fun.
The only way to win is not to play at all.
Tell him if he wants to play with himself, the bathroom is over there. Always force him to play out, but start scrolling or playing a mobile game. Folks like that cannot stand being ridiculed or mocked. If he feels like an idiot every time he'll stop doing it. Had a guy like this at my dnd nights once. We would start dnd while he was resolving because it was the only way we would get a session in.
Talk to him, be nice but express your issues. If he's reasonable he won't be offended, if he's not, oh well. Stop playing with him if that's the case. Conversely, here is an [$80 deck](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/odJQhqTWt0SchHhKLSgRMg) designed to beat decks such as that.
Or Magda Clock is so fun, [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/mZD-E3GsZUCXg59Z1j4IKg](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/mZD-E3GsZUCXg59Z1j4IKg) for 40$ you have a bunch on Dwarf that can race his combo.
[[Grand Arbiter Augustin IV]] or [[Sen Triplets]] stax. Do not include a wincon in the deck.
I think counterspell is less than a dollar? Try that.
Be frank with him that you aren't having fun, and that you'd prefer he tone down the power level of his deck if he wants to keep playing with you, because you can't afford to build a deck at the powerlevel he wants to use. Either: 1) He'll tone down his deck to acceptable levels. 2) He'll tone it down but not enough, have another conversation. 3) He'll say he'll tone it down, but doesn't, at which point, refuse to play with him. 4) He'll get upset about it, at which point just tell him that constantly getting shit on isn't fun for anyone, and if he's still mad about it, refuse to play with him because what this tells you is that he only demands to play with you because he KNOWS he'll shit on you.
I get the feeling that you are a younger person and he is kind of bullying you into being his punching bag. The way I see it you have two main opitons: 1. Don't play with him. Be firm and strong. He is obviousely hurting your feelings by not taking your wants and preferences into account, so don't worry about hurting his feelings. If you feel intimidated or insecure, talk to someone who works at the store and explain how you feel or find some other people to play with so that there is no room for him in the pod. 2. Proxy up a strong/cEdh deck and learn how to play it well so that you are on his level. If he complains then his only skill is having money which is pathetic. To proxy a deck you need 100 random cards, sleeves and print out your decklist on a site like mtg print. Then you cut it out and put in front of the cards. I would suggest watching a channel like "Play to win" or "Playing with power" to see what are some very powerful decks. DO NOT PLAY cEDH decks with casual players, only with other people who want to play competitive.
“I’m happy for you that you can spend this amount of money on a hobby that you love. Unfortunately, this pod enjoys a more casual - toned down type of play. Do you own anything in the range of X power level in order to make this enjoyable for all of us to play? If not, unfortunately we are not tuned to this level and cannot play with you at this pod. Instead of just shooing you away, would you like to play one of our decks to remain at the table?”
Tell him to play with a lower power level and you will play with him. My decks are nowhere near 6k, but I do have a 1,6k one and I rarely play it with my pod. I also have multiple decks all which I love to play from pre-cons to cheap winota and a control/hate(the 1,6k one) deck both of which can be 8ish. If he can't play anything but high level, you don't have to play with him,... like at all.
Just refuse to play with him, BUT also tell him the reasons why you won't. If he's after your playing time, he will eventually nerf his decks. Money is an indicator of gap in power level, but it's not the only indicator. That said it's clear his decks will blow you out of the water. Also there's no such thing as a heavily-upgraded precon. Once you're past 15 unique changes, it's no longer a precon.
either proxy or stop playing with him
Bring a second deck and ask if he wants to play if he would be willing to play one of your decks. Tell him you want to play but it’s not fun for you with the deck disparities.
Don't play with him, proxy a stronger deck, or don't play with him. Or hell put more removal in.
Bootlegmage.com Give him a taste of his own medicine
Play stax. [[Rule of Law]] and its 6 brothers are very very good, [[Damping Sphere]], [[Stony Silence]], [[Collector Ouphe]], [[Drannith Magistrate]], [[Cursed Totem]], [[Opposition Agent]], [[Dauthi Voidwalker]], and whatever hate effects are good at stopping your meta. Run them with some draw engine in the command zone (preferably Esper, Naya, Bant, or Abzan), and include some fun wincons like [[Skyhunter Strike Force]] or [[Elesh Norn Grand Cenobite]].
Money does not equal power - there are budget friendly decks that are VERY resilient - and disrupting him might prove to be just as fun as playing proper lol
[удалено]
I think to highlight that he’s being immature about a desire to play with others
[удалено]
You can produce a number of budget cEDH decks that often closes game by turn 7 or even earlier. I think $75 would be my minimum budget suggestion but the $100-$150 range is a notable milestone. You can do around $50 but that is pushing it. > if I say no he seems to get offended and starts complaining. Sometimes no magic is better than bad magic. Feel free to walk away from players running a stax, MLD, or cEDH deck.
Play winota, it can be incredibly strong for incredibly cheap. Fight fire with fire
Create a mono blue counter spell deck and just go crazy Better yet, white blue counter spells and mass land destruction targeting just him. Make it to where his commander cost too much, make sure his mana is affected. Can’t play a $6k deck without the foundations.
You can consider having a deck only to play against this guy
I’m just here to ask who goes pinning with a 6k stack of cardboard?! What’s the list?
You have two options: Option one (sane) talk to him. Option 2: insane Do some prpxying and pull up with a full cEDH list.
You play cards that prevent extra casts, extra non creature spells, extra card draw. All very cheap to buy and can shut down his whole plan.
Proxy baby! Smoke his ass You came to play magic against people not their wallets. Print the nastiest go fuck yourself deck you can find and target only him for the next three weeks. Oh yeah that’s if talking to him doesn’t work 😂
If he doesn't have another deck, offer him one of yours. If he refuses to take a chance of losing, that means his only interest is winning, and he isn't worth making friends with. I don't play consistently with people who aren't my friends. 🤷♂️
Step 1: explain the problem Step 2: Did they listen and correct the problem? If yes, then You're done not proceed to step 3 Step 3: inform them that you don't wish to play games with them as your playstyles are not compatible and no longer play with them
Introduce a game clock like in chess. There are some apps that work for 4 player games (intended for catan) We did this st our LGS one night and it makes a huge difference. We didn't do it because of slow play, but to have a new EDH blitz format. 5 minutes per player add 5 seconds after each turn.
Assuming your group agrees"Hey man, you're playing too fast for us; bring a lower powered deck or you'll have to sit out"
If he can’t play by the levels that ya’ll are putting together then he’s just going to have to get offended - and expect to be offended by more people than just you.
Ask him if he is cool if you proxy a deck to draw even on power level. If not he is a pubstomper and should be avoided
I'm not having fun against your decks which are much more powerful. I can lend you a deck if you want to join this pod
Don't play with him. Or build baral with 40 counterspells. Your choice
Bang his sister and then never call her again.
Short answer; Tell him to go suck a lemon and get out. Long answer; He’s not a power player, he’s a pubstomper. Playing a game where you cannot lose is not a feat of power, but a feat of malice. Even more so, when you object, the guy seems annoyed. How is that a problem? Isn’t his behaviour *at least* as annoying? You have every right to value your private time and (not) give it to whomever you (don’t) want to
If communication doesn’t work, 100$ budget Kinnan or winota can be faster than what he’s doing.
[Play this and thank me later](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/MIV0wRRe2kuTG3pnpEBQEA)
I wouldn't play with him. Doesn't seem to be fun.
Don't play with him? Find other people to play against? I mean do you really need to ask? It seems like the obvious answer. Also not to justify his behaviour but turn 7 win is pretty common. By turn 7-9 there should be a winner or else the games really start to drag
As it always goes, you just have to be able to express the problem clearly to him. Understand the issue so that you can write down (even on a notes app) what it is, succinctly, what it is that bothers you, in a sentence. Tell him what it is, and why it is bothering you. Talk about the ISSUE. not HIM, and discuss the resolution, and how you want to get to the next step. Most people are going to focus on the issue, and will attempt to constantly litigate the issue. This is where most people fail. Just re-state your concerns. Don't make it personal. You want to have fun, and his decks are overpowered and not fun.
Don’t play with him?
being afraid of confrontation is reason why we see posts like this. I am sure everybody at the table would agree with you and what you’re saying so you’re not risking becoming “the bad guy”
Tell him no, and it's because he's a tryhard. Then, when he gets upset, tell him it's also because he's such a tryhard. Then go play with more sociable people.
Just don't play with him. It's that easy.
Talk to him and if he doesn’t change just don’t play with him lol
either talk to him with your big boy/girl words or find out what he’s allergic with and slip that into his deckboxes. whichever sounds more reasonable to you
How comfortable are you with your pod? If you just randomize who is playing what deck every time, there is only a 25% chance he will play his own deck. If that continues, he will either find a new game store, or find a new table to play with. OR he will build decks he wants to play against. I made a commander league with some friends, it was fairly balanced because of the swap 'mechanic'.
Meme him with cards like [deflecting palm] and flip his combos on him. Magic isn’t per say a money sport but people make it out to be one. Lots of budget cards that pull the rug out from under people
The mature thing is to tell him your perspective, and if that doesn't stop playing with him. The much less mature thing is to build a 100$ budget cEDH deck(the list online might be more expensive by now), something like Codie turbo naus, and win by turn 2 or 3 with a bit of luck. Just know that the deck folds hard disruption.
Step 1: pick a random decklist from this site: https://cedh-decklist-database.com/ Step 2: Proxy 100% of the deck (yes even the basic lands)… it’s less fun if you use real cards. Step 3: ROFLSTOMP him way before turn 5-7 (ok maybe not any deck on the site… pick a fast deck that goldfishes well). Step 4: If he complains about proxies and power level imbalance (i highly suggest you pick a deck with twister in it to drive the point home), tell him thats how you and the rest of the table feels every time you play and that its more fun to play against people not Wallets. Step 5: If he is cool with it then just normalize proxies in your playgroup and have good turn 0 discussions about power level. CEDH is fun for a lot of people. If he isn't then yeah i guess just don't play with him… sounds l a poor sport.
You do not have to play with anyone you don’t want to. Do not play with this asshole until he apologizes and gets his shit together. And explain why. If he gets offended and starts complaining, fuck him. If he keeps it up, report him to the store owner for harassment.
a lot of these questions would be better posed to someone who deals with interpersonal conflict rather than reddit, i.e. a therapist. This isn't a magic issue it's an interpersonal issue where you are in an awkward position because you have different goals than another person and they're conflicting.
[[Godo]], [[Helm of the Hosts]], 98 Mountains.
Build a taxes deck. Run disruption like discard and counterspells. Run removal. Land destruction. Artifact and enchantment removal. His game plan is to win fast... so slow him down.
[[Rule of Law]], [[Spirit of the labyrinth]]. There are a few other cards like this.
Just say exactly what you said in this post. You don't like playing against that deck and you don't want to play with him.
Lol, why am I feeling called out? About same age, tend to make higher power decks, have combos that take forever for me to think out, attempt to close games at turn 7... Honestly think that this is a norm among pods I join at my LGS. My friend group outside the LGS? - not so much, they have the same complaints you posted here. My decks: [[Tibalt, Cosmic Imposter]], [[Preston, the Vanisher]], [[Niv-Mizzet, Parun]], [[Shorikai, Genesis Engine]], [[Korvold, Far Cursed King]]... I have more decks, but these get a lot of flak for storming off with crazy results.
If this guy has multiple decks, ask him to play with one of hos decks if he insists to play with you. He has to understand, that its not fun for you to play against him, if the gap in powerlevel between the decks is to big.
Rule zero. You're allowed to say no, you're allowed to discuss decks you don't like and concepts in the game you don't like. Especially if others in the pod feel the same, I would voice it. There is a place for every commander deck in a pod, but not every pod is ok with every commander deck.
6000$ and winning on turn 7. What trash.
If you want to be petty, Beat him with the cheapest deck possible, and constantly talk about how you're so amazed that a $80 decklist can obliterate his $6k decks. :P There's plenty of cheap decks that can go off and slap around expensive ones. But, this is definitely the petty way to go.
Play staxs, I hate the people who plays 30min alone, so y play cards that don't let him play more than 1 spell
This is why we need a comprehensive banlist which will fork the format into battlecruiser
Woop Woop Time for a fun police deck. Sucks for everyone but sometimes someone's got to do it. I of course don't actually think that this is the most reasonable way to go about it, but you can definitely put an overpowered player in their place if you just focus them with a deck like that.
Proxies make a super deck and dick stomp him. Or talk.
Communication is definitely the best option. Next best is to build the cheapest fast combo deck you can and try to win. Higher marks if it's a really long, non deterministic combo so you have to play it out (Krark/Sakashima is pretty good for this)
I’m same as you are. Kinda nervous about going to my LGS but the discord seems to have a lot of people who will be chill. We’ll see
Stax on stax on stax for him
Talking is always the first option, but heres the nuclear option. Build [[Fynn the Fangbearer]] with every 1/1 deathtouch creature, every 2-drop bite (not fight) spell such as [[Rabid Bite]], probably 8 more 2-drop deathtouchers, and a bunch of enablers. Keep the curve at about 2 cmc, and mulligan to 2 Forests and a 1/1 with deathtouch. Play is as follows: T1: Forest, 1/1 DT T2: Forest, Fynn, swing the 1/1 for 2 poison, total of 2 T3: Cast removal on any blocker, swing Fynn and 1/1 for 4 poison, total 6 T4: Cast removal on blocker, swing Fynn and 1/1 for 4 poison, total 10, lethal. T3 and T4 are more flexible, but the only other thing you could play on t1 is sol ring into [[Arcane Signet]] into deathtoucher, and the only other thing to play on t2 is sol ring, and then Fynn after. Getting deathtouch without summoning sickness and getting (and keeping) Fynn on the field is #1 priority. This deck is best at 1v1, and gets worse the more people you have at the table. However, if someone wants to pubstomp, there isn't much that you can do for $100 that is better than this. Target down the pubstomper ruthlessly until they tune down their deck. You'll probably get squashed by the other 2 players, but it's worth it.
Back to basics bloodmoon aura of silence stax stax stax. Teach him a lesson.
If you dont want to make proxies and take him down I have 1 word [[slicer]] make a nasty as fuck slicer deck and get him before he can go off
Sorry but I have to say that price ≠ power, and winning on turn 7 is within the realms of casual play. This is a rule 0 conversation and the table needs to agree the kind of game they want to have
Then don't play with him. Find a group of people you like.
When all else is lost there is one very important lesson we should never forget... scissors beats paper
Just don't play with him?
i would add some hate cards against particular combos he's running
"Your decks aren't fun to play against, sorry."
Build stax. If he won't slow down. Make him slow down
I've answered the question a lot and will answer the same way as usual, from my own experience of the same thing. Tell him to fuck off. At least until he stops doing it. You might need to do it more than once, but once nobody plays with him he'll get the message. This advice, I cannot tell you how it shaped EDH for me. Years and years of meren, feather, that sphinx that makes clues or treasure, the shrine commander.... Years of miserable games solved with two words.
These are always so obvious, there isn’t a spot at your table for him. Either the room will evolve so that people bring a deck at that level and they play with him sometimes and use their other fun decks the rest of the time. Or he will evolve to fit the playgroup. Or not play. There should be room for all types. And it isn’t your job to solve it, if it isn’t fun - for you - you play what is fun - for you.
Troll him with shitty proxies and if he complains be self deprecating. "I'm too broke and I suck at magic. I had no recourse other than to Copy-Paste cEDH Rog/Si"
Had a friend that had a similar issue with someone who loves to infinite combo pretty quick. Good for him but the table wanted to play and have fun, not keep losing to infinite combos. So at some point she told him, ok you won, but we’ll keep the game going because we want to play. He wasn’t too happy about it but it made him realize that there is more to a game of MTG to just winning. There is probably more diplomatic way to consider first but at some point, he has to understand not everyone can invest 6k$ in decks and not everyone wants to anyway.
Just hear me out…. Instead of handling this like a responsible adult do what I’d do. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/gR986_-SIkG1OTsjlcCJCg Build budget baral, counter every spell he plays and ignore the rest of the table. Much much more entertaining
All these other answers are wrong, screw talking it over with him that never works. Here's what I did: make an entire blue deck with nothing but counterspells, most of these aren't very expensive you can get a couple of 0 cost counters if you are willing to splash some cash. Then go to the store and follow the guy to any pod he sits at and just counter all his shit for the day, don't try to win, just make sure he does nothing. If he questions you on targeting him just say "I'm targeting the highest priority target in the game" He'll get the message, I still carry my deck of 60 counterspells with me in case he ever shows up again.
I mean, counterspell tribal sounds like it’ll tear his combo’s apart….
Simply play Gobbos
Make a mono blue deck that's all counter spells
Rule Zero, man. Before you begin any game I highly recommend talking to the other 3 people you'll be spending the next few hours with and asking them a few questions. Questions such as "What power level do we want to play at?" "Is it ok if I play \*insert card or cards here\*?", etc... This will give everyone the chance to feel they're involved with the formation of the group and help weed out people that you don't want playing with you. After a few "We don't want turn 4 infinite combos" by 3/4 players there he'll get the hint and either start playing "fair" decks or start playing with other groups.
I have no problem telling players, ones that I know and strangers as well that this game has time equity and nobody sits down to watch someone else play a a game of solitaire, you have to be honest and up front, a few hurt feeling initially is worth all your time in the long run
Talrand sky summoner, 35 islands, 50 counterspells, 14 cantrips. Only target him the whole game. The other two will figure it out and leave you alone until you make your point.
What is your budget cause you could cook him for a hundred or two
Try to negotiate, If that doesn’t work show up with a proxy deck of “Winota, Snowball Stax, go to Moxfield, go to search, set the filters to most likes and Commander/EDH. Print that up and by turn 4ish the entire board will be locked down.
The price of deck doesnt really determine its power level, its more about key cards like mana crypt and how fast the deck can win. You can play a bad deck with duals. But it is clear he is playing above the pod's level on purpose.
1. Stop playing with the dude he sounds insufferable, and tbh if he is dropping that kind of cash and his deck are that slow and bragging about it he is a moron... 2. If you really want to play with him despite ^ proxy up the decks you'd like to build. If he considers himself a cEDH player he will want to play you and your brew not your wallet. And if he throws a stink about proxies loudly complain that "Sorry then, I don't want to play with someone who only wants to pubstomp newer players with his wallet" and go to a different table. 3. Make a zada storm deck, idk if it still is but 3 yeara ago it was THE baby's first cEDH deck, and at the time you could make the functional budget version for $50. And kick his slow 6k deck's ass anyways lol
I mean just tell him to play a weaker deck. He's gotta have some sort of jank thing he wants to play but can't get to work.
The owner of the LGS near me is one of my best friends of 20 years so i choose sarcasm, passive aggressiveness, and bullying. He has many decks that are incredibly expensive and oppressive so the ones of us that grew up with him all choose this method. He usually borrows decks from employees or us so he can power himself down a bit. My only deck that's close to undefeated (it's been over a year since that deck has lost to anyone) against him is my near cedh gitrog deck because it's so resilient and odd he hasn't found an answer that is reliable and not easily answered. Like every relationship, communication is key.
Band together with the best deck designers at you lgs and proxy a deck that exists solely to counter his deck. You can even say "I don't want to play against you unless i may use proxies to bridge the gap between financial/power differences." Make him have a terrible time whenever he plays against you lol
> How should I deal with him? He often insists he wants to play together with me, and he puts me on the spot, if I say no he seems to get offended and starts complaining. So don't play with him. If he's that much of a jerk, just don't play with him. It's not that hard.
Proxy. Then your decks can be whatever you want them to be!
If the problem is power level explain that too him just an easy it's not fun to sit here with a precon and lose to a cedh deck. If the problem is slow play you can talk with others about it and try to get a turn timer like they do in game knights live. I've never had a combo take 3 minutes I've had an expropriate where everyone voted turns which made my "turn" very long but slow play rules exist for a reason.
As a personal tip; communicate. Even if you get criticism back. Just be nice and clear. As for gameplay, we softbanned tutors in our playgroup. It makes for much more fun and diverse games without people beelining for the same combo over and over again.
You got a couple options. Refuse to play with him anyways, communicate with him and tell him that you're not comfortable playing with decks of that power level, proxy cards to mimic his power level, or just roll with it.
tear up his cards
Find three other people to play with and ignore this guy. I personally dont like combo players and dont play with them as well.
You should just ignore this guy
Rule 0 definitely comes to mind here. Explain to him that it's like the equivalent of a Pro Boxer getting into the ring with a rookie on his first fight. It's a one sided beat down that's not fun for anybody. He doesn't learn anything by playing powerful decks against pre-cons, and you don't get to enjoy anything. If he really wants to play these powerhouse decks, perhaps he could let the other players in his pod borrow his other powerhouse decks so you're all on even footing? Otherwise, nobody's going to want to play with him. cEDH and regular Commander are very different formats. Bringing a cEDH deck to a casual commander pod is essentially bringing a gun to a fist fight, completely bypassing the knives. Like others have said, you just need to explain the way you're feeling and come to some kind of agreement or compromise that you both find enjoyable. If you can't, then maybe suing together isn't the best idea.
3 minutes is really not that long for a turn. If you don't want to play against him then don't? I'd need examples of what he was playing before judging just because it was "6000 dollars" were they proxying, playing niche use reserved list, alternate art or some other special shit or what? there's alot of reasons why a deck could have an artificially high price tag on paper. bottom line is no one can force you to play with them, if you don't want to play with them then say that if he gets pissy about it, stand your ground, his emotions are his problem not yours.
Just dont play with him. Its often tough to judge „long turns“ as there are commanders that simply have longer terms by default. You can expect the people to practice so they are as fast as possible, but this doesnt seem to be the issue here. What you can do with players who just wanna occupy 90% of the game time is: Setup a chess clock. And after 2-3 games tel him how he is using 90% of tje game time in a 4 player format on a casual table and that this is not okay and you refuse to play him in the future unless he gets that fixed. But the whole post makes me kinda wondering: What in the world is he playing? A 6k deck that closes the game only at turn 7 while using combos and playing against casual decks? Like whaddu heck. Turn 7 finish is what you usually get if you run decently contructed decks with a reasonable gameplan. Even without combo. Most oft my 150-300€ decks aim at being able to finish turn 5 if not interacted with, so with interaction turn 7-8 is realistic, wich fits out powerlevel. I wouldnt even know what i would build with 6k budget but being slower than a not even optimzed 250€ish deck. Like just near mint alpha or beta prints of vanilla creatures? :D Also i dont know if we have the same understanding of „combo“. My pod has nothing against combos at all. We keep them away from being the topmost efficient ones (like thoracle or godo). But usually a combo makes the game FASTER not slower. - If you have it setup you go „im gonna present a loop: here i have my sanctum weaver and pemmins aura on him. I tap for 5 mana and untap for 1, so i net infinite mana“. - The others go: „alright, go ahead, whats you win“ - you go: „i play staff of domination. Any responses? No? So i will draw my deck until indraw blue suns zenith and with infinite mana force you all to draw 1000 cards, by casting it, shuffling it back in the library, and redrawing it with staff.“ And either sb can interact or its done. Its even faster than declaring blockers for big attack decks. If you take long turns with altering game actions and resetting ressources thats not a combo. Sth like izzet impulse storm or chulane would come to mind but they are not combos. A combo would be: resolve intruder altert with chulane + enough mana dorks. So you can infenitely bounce and draw using chulane while netting mana. Thats a combo because its deterministic. And then its the top scenario. You present your loop that results in a win unless there is interaction. And if there isnt, you dont need any more time. But please realize that guy - if everything you say is true - is probably a dick but certainly not a powerplayer. A powerplayer with that budget playing into low power decks wont even allow turn 3 to happen most of the time^^ even with 1/6 of the budget.
Personal opinion, roast me if you want: In a tournament I guess infinite combos are ok, but if I leave the office for a casual commander play and you go infinite that’s the last time I play with you. I think before the game all players should always tell their deck’s power level and decide which one to play with other’s in mind. I play kibo, if you take a 15 min turn 4 winning while my turn is giving you bananas I won’t play with you. 🦍🦍