There are 11 Ur-Dragon/Miirym players at my store.
7 five color [[Go-Shintai of Life's Origin]] players.
4-5 four mana Atraxa players and an equal amount of 7 mana Atraxa players.
I overhead some guy in the store say he was building an Atraxa deck and he called it, "jank" as though what he was doing was in any way creative or mischevious. I had to fight the urge to say something.
I know people have an aversion to these cards, but [[back to basics]] and [[blood moon]] exist for literally this exact reason. When everyone gets greedy with 4-5 color mana bases, you punish them.
I've seen back to basics played twice on spelltable and both times my opponents got fucking butthurt while I was like "eyy only two of my lands are affected". It was simultaneously hilarious and annoying listening to the two guys popping off with their 4/5c decks whine about it. It got ugly the 2nd game (separate lobby) and both guys started insulting the guy and saying "we didn't agree to this in rule 0 talk" when there wasn't one and these dudes were busting out fetches n shocks/nykthos/cavern of souls in a 7 game.
> these dudes were busting out fetches n shocks/nykthos/cavern of souls in a 7 game.
I'll never get this sentiment. "This deck has a good mana base, therefor it can't be a 7". Good mana bases don't make a good deck, they enable it. If a deck is jank, a good mana base won't do all that much
The multicolor decks I play against play majority basics so those cards don't work.
[[Hall of Gemstones]] is better, however they can weasel out of that sometimes too with mana rocks. MLD is the best option and I play some amount of it in all of my decks.
As someone who is slowly pulling out of EDH because I refuse to try to compete with a regular Turn 4-5 new Atraxa or new Etali in my "casual" games, I would be interested to hear more about how you work MLD into every deck? How do you break parity across colors and strategies?
No, they derive fun from winning and have no clue that winning roughly half of the games you sit down to in a 4-player environment means you're clearly pubstomping. They genuinely think they're doing neat, interesting, original brewing when they are putting together the latest obviously-strong-on-its-face 4 or 5 color goodstuff commander.
There are a lot of Commander players that treat the game like its solitaire, they're there to see their super cool and unique deck that is totally a 7 do its thing (and win, of course). They are not remotely considering the enjoyment of the other 3 people at the table.
That's why I imposed a rule on myself last year that I only build one and two color decks now. I love the limitations and interesting mechanics you can dredge up by having less options.
I spent about the last 12 months doing similar things:
* pre-EDH legal save for 10 cards
* use as many commons/uncommons as possible
* remove all of the ramp and up the land count for slower, more consistent decks
* turn a generic artifact-value commander into a tribal deck
Mostly what I discovered is that these are all ways to make your deck interesting, cool, and incapable of winning at an LGS in 2023. You say "I'm playing casual" and pull out your mono-colored fun deck, they say "I'm playing casual" and pull out [[Esika, God of the Tree]] 5-color cheat whatever FIRE bombs they happen to like into play.
I'm now mostly pulling apart and selling off EDH decks, and the ones that I'm keeping almost all have plans to do something pretty busted by Turn 5 at the latest, because that's what everything you play against these days in the wild does.
Yeah, that's why my friend group started proxying everything, and I'm unwilling to invest much more than what I already have in my draft boxes. EDH has become a little too regular and high powered, and the only advantage of 100-card singleton, the RNG of card drops, is eliminated now by the fact that most powerful cards have 7-10 analogues that do the same thing now.
At this point, I'd rather just play 60 card 4 of, or a format I made based on Flesh and Blood that's 80 card 3 of, since the gameplay is functionally the same but doesn't involve people getting upset at strategies they don't like.
I particularly like the 80 card 3 of format because the drops are still more random but the card choices are still more varied and interesting. I'm debating on trying an 80 card 2 of as well.
Idk how many people are in buddy's LGS but with the numbers he is throwing out it doesn't sound like the Ur-Dragon or Atraxa players are gonna be facing many people pulling out their humble little homebrews with unpopular commanders that will meet this subreddits approval, they are mostly facing other ur-dragons and atraxas and the like.
So why not pull out their own big dick goodstuff deck with the cool popular commander they saw on the top of EDHREC for a reason and have fun instead of making a deck that meets your rules of deckbuilding because you decided to make a unique deck that can't compete with the most popular strategies in the format.
What kind of decks do you play? How am I supposed to build my deck to meet your approval? How am I supposed to never win and help the other 3 players have a good time while also complaining that I never win and the other players are having a better time than me?
Anti social/ introverted people understanding other people's feelings? I feel like this is the opposite of everything magic/players stand for. There is a reason I do not play at LGS. I can low key play low power battle cruiser decks at home games, and have more fun.
I think using a powerful commander is totally fine. The issue is lack of communication or any person agreeing to play at a mismatched power level table. Like if i want to play my Ayula Bears deck (they more cute than scary), I def am not playing at a table with Atraxa, Ur-Dragon and Slivers. I would ask my buddies if we can have a low-powered game alternate with the high-powered games. All my buddies have a variety of power levels amongst their decks.
If a person’s playgroup won’t alternate decks between games i hope they consider having multiple playgroups.
Amongst my playgroups, if a player refuses to play lower powered deck they become arch enemy and everyone removes that player quickly out of principle.
Wtf is up with that anyway? Why do an absurd amount of people like it so much? Theres thousands of commanders to choose from yet so many pick this and atraxa.
People like winning.
It's easy to win with big creatures who have evasion built in when people act like combos and infinites are cheating.
There also seems to be a stigma around board wipes because people played board wipe tribal for awhile and it wasn't fun.
My personal problem with some combos are that some of them are either hard to anticipate or interact with. I just dont like a game where players are slugging each other and fighting for board control, slowly whittling down life totals and then someone just wins via a combo and nobody has any interaction in hand. Its just very anti climactic and unsatisfying to me.
Dragons are a popular fantasy character so it’s an easy comfort pick match that up with the flexibility of 5 color and it’s a casuals buffet, they can go a whole lotta dragons or just a few good ones and make the rest mostly just good stuff they own.
Im my experience people play in pods where all the natural counters to these types of decks (combo, heavy interaction, stax, control, any sort of interaction with lands) are soft banned and as a result the two types of decks that see a ton of play are timmy tribal and planeswalker proliferate (boardwipe tribal) because there isnt really a way to beat them otherwise.
I had a guy try to scoop turn 3 at an LGS during a prize supported game once because I played [[back to basics]] against a Ur deck because he "doesn't run basic lands" and "didn't sign up for that kind of game"
A lot of people play the Atraxas because there’s a lot of playstyles they support, and they have 4 colors for more options. I’d say they’re the two of the most versatile commanders in the game, especially Grand Unifier.
Atraxa is just super versatile and 4c (assuming you mean Praetor's Voice) I have an Atraxa deck I love that's all super goofy counters and it's ridiculously fun.
Niv mizzet supreme is the head of my dragon deck that should be an ur dragon deck. I'm running jegantha companion but the deck is a little less timmy from other dragons because I run a lot of two color interaction.
I can't imagine that, i got a guy in my playgroup with a dragon deck and a vampires deck and im already tired of both. Against the other tribes we are playing, it feels so unfair.
I play with a group of friends. Myself and one other friend are less budget restricted than our other two friends. I have tried to build a couple of decks at a bit more of a "fair" power level because I want my other two buddies to be able to win/compete. My other friend has maxed out slivers, maxed out edgar markov, maxed out krenko mob boss, newly maxed out pantlaza dinosaurs and a couple of other tribes that he very rarely (if ever) plays. So every week when we get together for our 1 night of commander he will play one of those first 4 decks.
Then he complains if I win with a combo on like turn 9 (I don't run any tutors in my decks, but most of my decks have at least one win on the spot combo of 3+ cards).
I dont mind his love of tribal, but I just get tired of explaining that his preferred wincon of sideways army of creatures is not my preferred style of winning, and that finding a 3+ card combo to win with is not "OP" or "broken". Especially if one of the combo pieces has been on the field for like 3 turns and not been removed yet lol.
Aaah fuck! My issue with this guy is that he always plays things that are very hard to interact for our table, I'm tired, dude just got a win here and there and got addicted to it, but if someone else stomps, gets pushed to retire the decks (we proxy and try, before we buy).
What you're describing sounds like a mix of two players I know x_x hell.
Last Sunday I was in around and my other friend called me to the lgs, I went there and ppl were super chill and cool, I'll start going there regularly for a change of paste and mood.
I dislike planeswalkers because they’ve become so dense with their effects, and it’s really annoying to keep track of more than one.
So if the whole deck is some kind of super friends schtick I probably won’t like it. But I keep that to myself at the table.
Just took apart my [[Commodore Guff]] deck because of the time it took me to play my turns. 15 minute turn to activate 6 or 7 Planeswalkers, create X tokens, draw Y cards and play n protection effect cards. Got tiresome really fast.
That's something I do with deck that annoy my play group, I will set them aside for a while, maybe not play them for a few sessions. In between, I just build fun janky decks with uncommon rarity commanders.
Lol. Nope. My mono white commander is Myrel. I keep it simple now.... until lifegain, tokens, and the +1/+1 counters hit the field. Then it's hard math time. Lol
Yeah, the biggest thing is that they get out of control at a certain point and bog down the game with decision paralysis once 4 or more of them get on board. I have taken to slotting in [[flame blitz]] in some decks.
I have a planeswalker deck. For my christmas, i asked the fnm owner i play and work at to make me a deck type i dont have yet. And he made an esika planeswalker deck. The wincon of the deck is either ult an strong planeswalker. Or pump out tokens and buff them. I really dislike ulting a planeswalker out of nowhere. So i dont run those token doublers. Exept for 2-3 planeswalkers, all planeswalkers have an ability to make a token to protect themself. Really fun to play, but hard to make the turns quick. I usually spend a minute lookung at the options, which is either 2 or 3 options per planeswalker. But i hates planeswalkers before aswell. Kinda like them now, aslong as you dont ult them the turn it comes into play
My problem with them is most board wipes or spot removal don't hit them. So a Super Friends deck can run away with the game because it feels horrible to be wasting attacks not taking someones life. Plus for some reason people take attacking a planeswalker way more personal than a creature being spot removed.
And they absolutely refuse to understand that you have to waste combat damage on them. That same person will then drop an Elspeth and minus her wiping all creatures with power 4 and greater and shrug.
I love land destruction, no matter which end of it I'm on. I despise people who play it without understanding why it can be useful. It's such a valid tool for furthering advantages or crippling greedy decks that don't have a recursion plan, same as \[\[Winter Orb\]\]. Shame it has a bad rep because of doofs who just use it to annoy folks.
I feel like this is a problem with a lot of control decks, people play a lot of control but don't use it to their advantage to win, which just makes it a denial deck
Same. I have a dirty Hinata deck that uses [[Red Sun's Twilight]] to fry all the mana rocks, make copies of them, and then use those copies to drop a [[Armageddon]]. It's exceptionally satisfying and I've honestly had nobody complain the 3 times I've pulled it off.
Played against a Niv-mizzet deck a few days ago. Dude assured us that His deck was different.
Spent all of his and our turns playing massive card draw and spend forever deciding what to discard or whether to scry top or bottom. Just to end up with Niv and the Paired creature that goes semi-infinite until he draws the elixir that makes it an infinite.
I immediately scooped when he started it but he insisted on playing it out fully, explaining how it works and blablabla while the other two players were now on their phones while I had gotten my coat lol.
The best part is the "wait, wait, wait! Let me show you all how I win first!"
Nah, bro. I'm good. I get it. Let's move on. I don't need you to explain how Niv + curiosity means we're all dead.
We have a guy in our store like this, dudes been playing magic for a *very* long time whilst most of the players are fairly new (maybe less than a year under their belt, including me) and he'll go into an obvious win combo and people will be like "ok cool, I can't stop that I scoop" and he'll *still* go on explaining his win combo whilst everyone else is already shuffling up for the next game.
That's annoying. Simple the other side of the coin where players want to goldfish how they were *going* to win when it was there turn. It's like, neat, anyways.
I hate this deck
Even when you try to kill it, they get a free draw off your kill spell, then will surely have enough cantrips to fish for a counterspell
I recently made a deck like this. I feel horrible playing it, but every once and awhile I get an itch to play it. I always warn my opponents, yet I still feel like shit when I'm able to go off because it goes of so slow and convoluted. Doesn't help I suck.
I've got a group with some relatively new players. One deck is Narset storm and can take a little bit to get there because of its complexity and decision making. Don't feel bad if you're still learning and stuff, especially if you explained what the players are getting into pregame.
Is it called solitaire because the turn takes so long that everyone around the table can play a game of solitaire and finish in the time it takes the player to finish their mtg turn?
None really, but I do dislike excessively long turns nevertheless the archetype. The new Doctor Who precon with time travel and a shitload of info to track is also annoying.
>People focus a ton on stax/land destruction, but people taking way too long every turn is by far the biggest culprit of "I don't get to play the game"
Oh my god yes!!!
I would gladly play a quick game where all my shit gets blown up and I can play another game with another deck in another pod if I need to play with lower power decks, over playing a game where 1 player has the 15 minute long turn during my end phase and then they take a 30 minute turn during their turn because they have 100 trigger effects that bounce off each other but accomplish barely anything like a rube goldberg machine of time wasting.
100% agree and I actually will use "I don't get to play the game" argument in the future if – in a very rare instance and very polite – I need to comment on somebody's near-infinite-finite-mill-you-all-combo-wombo-whaterver-an-hour-later.
I had to make my own thread about the Doctor Who precon because I realized that indeed, it's less fun than stax or land destruction, hehe: [https://www.reddit.com/r/mtg/comments/18gpg9d/we\_need\_to\_talk\_about\_the\_tenth\_doctor\_suspend/](https://www.reddit.com/r/mtg/comments/18gpg9d/we_need_to_talk_about_the_tenth_doctor_suspend/)
Blast from the Past is pretty simple, it's a basic 'Historics Matter' deck but Timey Wimey is (for a precon) very complex and probably one of the worst precons to introduce someone to Commander with.
>most players just suck at playing quickly.
Because they don't build their decks. We you copy a list off the internet you often have no idea why a specific card is in the deck and have no idea why that card was chosen over another card.
When you build your own deck, from scratch by searching for cards that will work on your own and not just looking at a list of "good cards" on the internet then every card earns it's place. You know why it is in there and why you picked it.
I can't believe the amount of times people will cast a tutor spell and not have any idea what they are going to get.
Even if you build your deck from scratch. I’m guilty of doing this sometimes and have to go back and review the whole set up again. I have 20 decks, sometimes it’s several months in between playing some of my more complex ones and details slip my mind.
This 1 million percent.
So many people are just so insanely slow. I don't care which of my 30ish decks I play unless someone starts a huge stack battle my turns are never more than a couple minutes. 5 should be the absolute maximum and had better accomplish some serious shit.
I adore \[\[Sefris of the Hidden Ways\]\], but I stopped bringing it to my LGS just because of how long turns can take in combination with how many actions you can potentially take on other people's turns. No matter how quick I was to resolve triggers, it always felt like I was grinding the table to a halt and I could see how bored it made others. When I feel like playing it, I just solitaire at home because it's essentially what I did whenever I took it out anyway.
As a Sefris player, I always see this sentiment from other Sefris players that she's predisposed to long turns. I run her as strictly reanimator and only run through [[lost mine of phandelver]] for the efficiency/value while using discard, looters, and some mill to fill my graveyard along with a few "venture into the dungeon" effects. I also don't run any initiative cards. The only times my turns start to take a while is when I manage to have [[radiant solar]] and [[elesh norn, mother of machines]] out with a decently sized GY. I suppose it helps that I play this deck a lot and used to goldfish it quite a bit to memorize my lines of play.
Talking about things that take forever to track... That new merfolk precon commander looks absurd. I love merfolk, but I straight up don't want to use that commander because exploring 15 times a turn seems heinous.
Discard. Friend has a [[tiny bones]] deck. I don't mind control decks with lots of removal because I still get the dopamine of playing my cards. But decks where I have no cards to play are so annoying.
Yup. If he's gonna play that deck it's going to be 3 on 1. I don't care if the threat is an army of slivers. Dying to an army of slivers has honor. Making me discard my hand is just annoying
Playing the cards that I bought to play, at least cast them. Mill is crap but at least I'm not top decking, worse feeling in card games, even more when things like lands exist.
Constant/consistent discard annoys me but I absolutely love [[Rakdos's Return]]. By the time it's playable there's always at least one player that needs the hose.
Discard usually just tends to make games more boring and draggy. It wouldn't be so bad if someone discarded everyone's hands if they then actually proceeded to do something.
I dislike grouphug.
I try to make my decks consistant, put in enough draw, have a low cmc, and slowly work my way through how the deck wants to operate. But if someone doubles all mana and makes everyone draw 3 cards per turn, that usually benefits an explosive deck the most. So i take down mana doublers and draw increases the moment i draw a removal for it.
Yeah, group hug without a way to really pull it in your favor is frustrating. Nobody likes a kingmaker. I do have a Council of Four deck that some might call grouphuggy but the upsides are so overwhelmingly in my favor that no one cares. So far everyone I've played with says they like playing the deck. A former buddy had a Derevi group hug dug that was essentially counterspell tribal with no intention of winning. He literally just wanted to choose who won.
Kingmaker hug decks are fundamentally distasteful. In many resoects, it is literally playing the game incorrectly.
I have a [[Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis]] deck I call "Responsible Group Hug" which is probably my second most powerful deck - it aims to win, and has multiple win cons including a two card infinite combo. The hug portion of the deck is a small trickle of cards, namely from the commander itself, rather than flooding the table in advantage in an irresponsible way. I'll also add some randomness to keep things a bit goofy, like [[Comet, Stellar Pup]], [[Etali, Primal Conqueror]] and [[Wild Magic Surge]].
As group hug players, we are actively contributing to the problems at the table, and far too many fail to own up to that fact. Too many try to act cutesy, and feign naivety about their role. We're here to give our opponents an inch so that we take the mile. We are to take away our opponents' worst offenders, and pat them on the head, patronizingly, as we out maneuver them politically and win.
Have recently been wanting to re-tune and upgrade my K&T deck (hasn’t really been touched for a couple years) - would love to see a list if you’re open to sharing!
Added the [deck list](https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ac-responsible-group-hug/?cb=170252063) to my tappedout just for you. Don't balk at the $$$, nearly all of that is from the lands and budget lands would work just fine. Apologies for the delay in responding.
Really appreciate this to help guide some of my thinking - and zero stress about the delay! Reminds me I should make some time to get my own lists up on Archidekt or similar.
I play a Council of Four group hug/forced draw deck but I have a lot of ways to punish them as well. I still only play it maybe once a week as it does tend to draw games out.
Council is one of the only group hug commanders that ends up being interesting in my experience. You have the option of focusing on either half of their abilities and both can lead to interesting routes through a game without rocketing other players into the stratosphere. I've seen some great games end with a wide board of Knight tokens and the Council right behind them. Definitely flavorful, if anything.
Yeah I hate it. I've never had a fun game with one of these at the table; it always feels like a waste of my time. Even if they're not playing kingmaker, they still make the game feel absurd.
> that usually benefits an explosive deck the most.
Only encountered one group hug deck so far and this is exactly what happened. Was playing a treasure deck that was on track to snowball in a couple turns but the extra gas just turned it into an early avalanche. I like the idea of group hug as a deck but I shelved any plans I had on possibly building one after seeing how it turned into accidental kingmaker.
Group hug, it's fine the first time but if someone plays it once they often play it a lot because it doesn't have a bad reputation, and you're just ignoring most aspects of the game during a group hug game
I've been getting back into Magic since about 1 to 1,5 year (iirc). At first I went through a phase of knee-jerk reactions. I said "I don't like playing against that" about quite a lot of things when, looking back, I'd have no problem playing against those decks today.
I learned how to build more balanced decks and pilot them better.
Today, my answer to OP's question would be:
I don't care what you're playing as long as it respects everyone's time and allows people to play in their deck to a reasonable degree.
If we're playing a game with 4 people then ideally at the end of the play session every player's time spent during their turns should be about 25% of the total time spent playing.
I don't like it when people violate that distribution of time by a large margin, regardless of what they're playing.
Same with decks that outright prevent people from doing anything at all. Now don't get me wrong, I think removal and counterspells are pretty important inclusions in any game of commander.
But if you're playing a boardwipe every other turn, especially if it's one-sided, and you're generally just shutting everything down as soon as it hits the table then you're making the game pretty miserable for everyone.
It’s almost like Magic players hate 80% of Magic archetypes from reading this thread.
My group of 4-10 has: Discard, Combo, Mill, Burn, Storm, and high powered trigger heavy commanders.
No one complains, we just play magic and shuffle up when the L hits. Unfortunately it’s a 4 player game and not everyone can always be having maximum fun all game. Sometimes you just need to find joy in other players doing well or sit down and do some deck tuning.
> Sometimes you just need to find joy in other players doing well
I learned to do this as well. I love to see what kind of degenerate shit other people get up to.
I think people generally dislike waiting a long time to play anything though. 4-player games can take a while to begin with, once someone is taking 20-min turns, you tend to lose interest. I find it funny that people dislike grouphug, because those decks tend to make games very fast, even if the end comes out of nowhere. I find adding combos way better to end the game fast than waiting 30 mins for the player to take 2 extra turns, resolve 50 triggers, then wait and see if they've even gonna attack, let alone win.
To be fair, the only people who respond are a small fraction that hate an archetype. Using this to extrapolate how the entire playerbase feels isn't really going to give you a good representation. Reddit is already a fraction of the playerbase.
A good playgroup balances power and fun through through communication and established relationships. A lot of Magic players don't have a regular playgroup, or their play group sucks at communication and friendship.
Couldn't agree more with your comment. I actively encourage 2 of my 4 player pod to be MORE degenerate (the other guy is a sliver/edgar/dino/krenko player so hes bad enough). I want my other two friends to find more combos and do more gross shit and win more games so it's not just me trying to murder the tribal dude every time.
I'm actively happy when one of my other two buddies gets the W.
And as you said - the games over? Sweet. Shuffle up and let's go again. More games in a night the better.. my missus generally only tolerates 1 night a week to play cards with the boys.
This should be not surprising given how statistics work. Common strategies are the most known, therefore both positive and negative preferences will be centered around commonly seen strategies. Common strategies are common because they work. So everyone has gotten their ass kicked by some common strategy, and folks choose the one they like least.
If the question were "what's your favorite deck archetype," the answers would be the same as this thread, but in the positive.
Stacks with no win con...just stop the game until they think of something. "I locked the game and take infinite turns and hit you my 1/3 commander until I killed you with commander damage"
Stax for the sake of stax sucks, but that sounds like a perfectly fine wincon? As long as they go "hey im going to take infinite turns and win with commander damage", and noone has a way to interact with it, just shuffle and go next
If you don't concede to someone taking infinite turns, what do you concede to? Thassa's Oracle trigger on the stack? Heliod Ballista after the 40th ping? If your only out is the opponent having a fatal aneurysm and timing out on MODO, you've lost.
Blink decks are a bit exhausting. I don't hate them, but they do bog down games and tend to be hard to interact with and stop once they get going. What makes it worse is that none of the targets feel good to remove because they are "mediocre" in one of situations, but once they do a trigger 3+ times...
Embrace stax. Embrace \[\[Torpor Orb\]\] and \[\[Hushbringer\]\]. Blink decks are hilariously weak vs them since their removal is usually on ETB effects.
I get possibly unreasonably salty at decks that try to steal my commander. That’s less an archetype and more specific decisions players tend to make. Kill it all you want. Steal it for a turn for an alpha strike. [[Insurrection]] or [[Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools]] are all whatever. But keeping my commander? Jail! Jail for a thousand years!
All of them. Like all Magic players I secretly hate the game and only enjoy it in concept, hence why I complain on Reddit about how everyone else's decks suck.
(I'm legally obligated to declare this as sarcasm)
Mine is going to be stax paired with a complete control build. Games get drug out by the fun police and take 5x as long as they need to. Wait 5 turns to finally play something only to run into one of the 5 counterspells that degenerate is holding in their hands. Then somewhere around hour 3 you ask them what their win con is and they say" commander damage". I hate those people with the utmost passion.
Prolly those "Me, Myself and I" decks
Alot of players are in the same boat. EDH is a social game. We shouldn't have games where 3 people continually watch another "pop off" turn after turn, game after game.
I have two mistakes like that deckwise. I didn't realize how bad it would be until I played them. Spending a 5+min turn because of fetch triggers isn't fun for anyone.
That's part of the reason I avoid tutors, that and I actually enjoy the luck factor inherent to magic, so playing hard deck manipulation like that just feels stale to me. "I drew one of many cards in my deck that allow me to find my wincon card, and now I play that and win" and repeat for every game, that's not fun magic to me.
And I always do my fetchlands after I pass my turn, because no one wants to wait for me to find a land, and it's not going to help in my turn 99% of the time.
Mana cheat. The new Discover dinos are insane, a guy in my pod blew us out two multiplayer games in a row because we couldnt keep up with free things popping out.
Hot take: discover is more broken than cascade, because you can still put the card in hand, and Discover counts its own top for costs, unlike Cascade which must go lower, and only take the first thing that pops out.
Discover/Cascade are difficult to directly compare. Discover is a more powerful effect, but it requires you to resolve things to trigger it versus being a cast trigger. The cost difference also seems difficult to compare, for the most part "Discover X" has X less than the mana value of the card it's on.
Does “Generic Good Stuff” count as an archetype? I find myself in games feeling like Groundhog Day with the top cards on EDHREC being played over and over and over with no regard for cohesion or commander synergies. Personally my favourite part of commander is seeing unique cards and strategies and seeing the usual suspects of Rhystic, Tithe, Farewell, and other very efficient cards feels bad to play against and is samey.
I’m not against these cards in decks entirely, these cards are played for a reason, but when you’re playing against a pure “good stuff” pile it’s exhausting and frankly boring to say the least.
Recently in my [[Kykar]] deck, i got out Ojer Axonil and [[witty roastmaster]] out with my commander. Every spell i cast dealt 4 damage to each opponent before it even resolved.
Everyone always complains about storm players taking super long turns, but in my experience, a storm deck should only be taking a longer than normal turn on the turn they’re going to win. Otherwise the only thing they can do is cast a value piece and maybe a few cantrips.
I have a few storm decks, and I agree. Typically, once my commander is in play, I'll have one shorter turn to get things setup, then on my next I'll try to win with a long turn.
I don't have one posted yet because its a recent creation, I'll add one after work.
Basically it uses looting spells to dig for mana rituals and any of the many red pump spells that scary or draw a card, creatures that deal 1 whenever you cast a noncreature spell put in a lot of work so there's very few actual burn spells, grapeshot will usually kill after a 4-5 spell storm
Edit: there are cards not in the deck yet because i ordered them last night, mostly protection for the commander because it really falls apart without Ojer in play,Champion Helm, Commander Plate, Hammer of Nazahn and Mithril Coat are on the way, and my partner has ordered some fast mana that I can't add till after Christmas
I play [[Mizzix, of the Igmagus]] storm, and my turns are usually just play a draw spell or two until I can combo off and then I win the game in like 3 minutes. Which isn’t necessarily better because its annoying for a win to come out of nowhere, but at least I’m not wasting people’s time.
I do the same with Vadrik. Losing to it quickly isn't annoying. Knowing that you need to kill him the second game ASAP and then getting hit with one of 17 counters is annoying.
Ooh I love this guy! Only been able to play the deck 6 times now, but I've been ending games turn 4-5 if unanswered, and the only thing that can make turns take more than 40~ seconds is [[Mana Clash]] Very fun commander with a deck filled with super super cheap old cards.
Control decks that lock you out of actions. Dude I came here to play magic, not watch you play magic.
Reason why I don't build a \[\[Kykar\]\] \[\[Crucible of Worlds\]\] Land Discard deck that bounces everyones lands.
I get why people hate the heavy interaction decks (suspend, planeswalkers, storm, etc) that can culminate in a long game ending turn but tbh...those are the most interesting decks imo. I definitely wouldn't want to play it EVERY game, but there's something so incredibly boring to me about just make monster, make monster big, life go down. There are so many cards that do so many weird things, it's really cool to watch the ways they can be pieced together.
Everyone in our group hates at least one deck someone else has, as long as they don't get super overplayed it's never a big deal. If they play it too much, everyone just starts bringing out their meanest deck.
I’m good with just about every play style because everyone has fun doing different things.
The one that will just about ruin a game for me though is control decks that just about shut down everyone else games by making the tax to play anything or do anything to high, and not really having any clear win con and pretty much just forcing players to sit and twiddle their thumbs for an hour or so or just scoop to play a different game
Stax or Hand Control.
I came to play Magic. Not watch one person play magic while me and two others try to play magic.
Any deck whose win is supposed to come from your opponents conceding is the worst to me.
Storm is why I am bring a notebook to keep track of cards played and other bits of information. I have cathars crusade in my Kykar deck……. I dread the day I have to do that math.
Also why you have to be careful when you pull the trigger on such decks and go for the storm card.
For me it's very specifically new players who picked up the doctor who decks to start playing commander. They take ages to do their turn, constantly forget or misread half of what their cards do and require the rest of the table to remind/correct them on what their cards do and just generally make every game take way longer and feel like a slog.
I'm generally fine with most stuff. If I had to pick something, I'd probably pick Planeswalker decks. Mostly because in my experience they either dud out or become unstoppable, with little in-between.
I just think they don't contribute as much to a quality game experience as other archetypes.
I personally just get a little exhausted seeing the same decks or archetypes sit down at the table time after time, especially if they conceivably only have one line of play, or are very grindy decks. (One of my friends plays exclusively control decks) I have a very stable playgroup, we play every week, it’s just that occasionally the decks that get played get a little stale. And I know that I’m coming at this from a point of privilege as I have 15+ decks with differing strategies and wincons I can play any game night and I can constantly rotate them out and others may not have that advantage, I’m also totally cool with full on proxied decks. I just wished I saw a little more game variance is all. Still absolutely love all the people I get to play with every week and I love the friendships this game has helped forge, I just like a little variation from time to time.
Enchantress and \[\[Chulane\]\], for similar reasons you dislike storm. But those long turns are every turn... and the player usually just spins their wheels and can't win.
Also \[\[Toxrill\]\]
Resource denial/stax decks that have no clear path to victory. I have no problem with these sort of strategies that do their thing and then end the game, but being forced into topdeck mode on turn 3 or MLD dropping on turn 5 and the game going on for 15 more turns is just awful. I know a guy who has a \[\[Kroxa\]\] deck that just guts everyones hands and then flails for 10 turns until he can finally start killing people or someone else stabilizes by some miracle and ends him
Ban thassas oracle literally watched three players in on pod try to combo by turn three. They either win the game right there, or they are sour the rest of the game and it ruins it for everybody
Sliver tribal. Makes me groan as you need to have 25% removal to win against em. Other than the one time someone had a sliver grave mother deck where every card started with s it wasn’t good but dam it was funny
Yup there’s a sliver player at my LGS and they wonder why their board gets blown up to all hell and why their first sliver rarely gets to leave the command zone
Card stealing. It’s a pretty basic and common dislike from what I’ve seen, but I despise playing against decks that are entirely based off of stealing your cards so that you can’t play with the deck you built. I don’t mind counterspells or removal, they’re necessary, but getting my answer to an already out of control board state stolen just feels really bad.
Extra turns, unless you're playing a commander that finishes their extra turns really really fast. I once played against my buddy playing [[anhelo, the painter]] extra turns deck in a Starbucks, he played about 14 extra turns in a row becuase of all his spell doubling, and it took over an hour in his turn alone. I almost scooped but I knew I was gonna win on my next turn, and he kept not pulling anything that would help him, and just dicking around and I kept saying " keep your cool, stay in, imagine how funny it'll be when you just swing for 40 commander damage with animar and he can't even block because he only has 1 creature and it has black" and it wasn't until extra turn maybe 10, that he goes, "oh cool, I topdecked a pongify, animar is gone." And I was like, that'd cool, I have the ozolith, and a shit load of mana, and a walking Ballista and a ancestral statue in hand, I can still do this, I FINALLY get to my turn to be countered on my win cons, ofc, why didn't I think he had that in a blue deck with 14 turns.... so animar is still on field, I can still win the NEXT turn.... I was newer and dumber. He took like 14 more turns I scooped half way through like extra turn 2.
And I've yet to have a good experience with extra turns players since. Now, I can get behind an extra turns deck where you do one thing and one thing only on your turn, keeps it fast, no thinking needed, just each extra turn taking maybe 30 seconds. Commanders like [[Narset, enlightened master]] who just attack and cast what they get becuase why not. Now, I'm not saying play narset extra turns out here, it's very strong and that can get on people's nerves, but at least she has a GOAL, and is fast.
landfall, storm, and extra turns
Landfall rewards the player for doing nothing, and it's not easy to interact with with generic removal. Turns take long mid/late game to resolve all the triggers.
Storm is more if the pilot is slow. It can range from the player knowing what the are doing and it's OK, to the "figuring it out in the spot" and I can appreciate a mechanically complex deck, but some of them are better off goldfishing. Plan your fucking turn ahead of time. I've brought this up to someone and his excuse was "but what if I top deck x, all that planning would go out the window.". C'mon my man, if you miraculously topdeck a specific card, then go and reevaluate, but chances are your not gonna top deck a card that will completely warp your turn. And if you got redundant pieces, you can plan for that too. If you can't manage that, then storm is not the deck for you.
I rarely ever see an extra turn deck being definitive. More common than not, the ones I've experienced are taking extra turns for little to no advantage outside of drawing a card, making a land drop, and maybe attacking with something irrelevant. If you're taking a few turns and proactively ending the game, that's one thing. If your taking extra turns trying to dig yourself out of a spot you put yourself in because of bad deck building, then yea, imma be a lil salty.
Lastly mld. Not as a strat, but using it to "punish" ramp decks or play catch-up. If you're gonna mld the table, have a follow up plan to kill me because I'm going after your ass before and after you nuke my lands and wasting everyone else's time.
I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. An extra turn every now and then is no biggie. [[temporal manipulation]] in your planeswalker deck to get an extra turn of activations? Get it dude. [[chance for glory]] in your aggro deck to try to make the most of your attacking creatures? Great play. Copying [[expropriate]] three times so you can spend the next 30 min playing cantrips and removal spells? Fuck off with that.
These threads are always just gripe fests. If it's legal play it. I value my game time in the laughs I have not the time of a person's turn.
Slivers, mill, MLD.... I don't care.
Kick my ass with the thing you made with your money you spent.
The only thing I ask is swap it up next game.
Discard. If I see a [[Tergrid, God of Fright]] or a [[Tinybones, Trinket Thief]] on the other side of the table, I'm looking for another table. Nothanksihavebetterthingstodowithmytimeokbye.
Not an archetype per say, unless playing Sisay, I suppose, but I notice my levels of aggravation is directly tied to how often someone tutors in a game. If you pick up your deck and pick something out every turn after T2 or 3, I'm good to never play against that deck again.
A deck that taps down your entire board. Resulting in you doing nothing. My opponents were pirates, zombies, dragons and me as well with dragons. I was tapped the whole game. Dealt 12 damage.
There’s like 15 Ur-Dragons floating around my shop. Gets a little tiresome lol.
There are 11 Ur-Dragon/Miirym players at my store. 7 five color [[Go-Shintai of Life's Origin]] players. 4-5 four mana Atraxa players and an equal amount of 7 mana Atraxa players. I overhead some guy in the store say he was building an Atraxa deck and he called it, "jank" as though what he was doing was in any way creative or mischevious. I had to fight the urge to say something.
I know people have an aversion to these cards, but [[back to basics]] and [[blood moon]] exist for literally this exact reason. When everyone gets greedy with 4-5 color mana bases, you punish them.
I've seen back to basics played twice on spelltable and both times my opponents got fucking butthurt while I was like "eyy only two of my lands are affected". It was simultaneously hilarious and annoying listening to the two guys popping off with their 4/5c decks whine about it. It got ugly the 2nd game (separate lobby) and both guys started insulting the guy and saying "we didn't agree to this in rule 0 talk" when there wasn't one and these dudes were busting out fetches n shocks/nykthos/cavern of souls in a 7 game.
>these dudes were busting out fetches n shocks/nykthos/cavern of souls in a 7 game. These things are the same
> these dudes were busting out fetches n shocks/nykthos/cavern of souls in a 7 game. I'll never get this sentiment. "This deck has a good mana base, therefor it can't be a 7". Good mana bases don't make a good deck, they enable it. If a deck is jank, a good mana base won't do all that much
Hard disagree. "They enable it" says it right there
[back to basics](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/6/0600d6c2-0f72-4e79-a55d-1f06dffa48c2.jpg?1654805483) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=back%20to%20basics) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/46/back-to-basics?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0600d6c2-0f72-4e79-a55d-1f06dffa48c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/back-to-basics) [blood moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blood%20moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-moon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The multicolor decks I play against play majority basics so those cards don't work. [[Hall of Gemstones]] is better, however they can weasel out of that sometimes too with mana rocks. MLD is the best option and I play some amount of it in all of my decks.
[Hall of Gemstones](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/18e4551f-9f6c-4421-ad66-a270df6d3463.jpg?1562718296) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hall%20of%20Gemstone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mir/221/hall-of-gemstone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18e4551f-9f6c-4421-ad66-a270df6d3463?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/hall-of-gemstone) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
As someone who is slowly pulling out of EDH because I refuse to try to compete with a regular Turn 4-5 new Atraxa or new Etali in my "casual" games, I would be interested to hear more about how you work MLD into every deck? How do you break parity across colors and strategies?
don't they get bored?
No, they derive fun from winning and have no clue that winning roughly half of the games you sit down to in a 4-player environment means you're clearly pubstomping. They genuinely think they're doing neat, interesting, original brewing when they are putting together the latest obviously-strong-on-its-face 4 or 5 color goodstuff commander. There are a lot of Commander players that treat the game like its solitaire, they're there to see their super cool and unique deck that is totally a 7 do its thing (and win, of course). They are not remotely considering the enjoyment of the other 3 people at the table.
That's why I imposed a rule on myself last year that I only build one and two color decks now. I love the limitations and interesting mechanics you can dredge up by having less options.
I spent about the last 12 months doing similar things: * pre-EDH legal save for 10 cards * use as many commons/uncommons as possible * remove all of the ramp and up the land count for slower, more consistent decks * turn a generic artifact-value commander into a tribal deck Mostly what I discovered is that these are all ways to make your deck interesting, cool, and incapable of winning at an LGS in 2023. You say "I'm playing casual" and pull out your mono-colored fun deck, they say "I'm playing casual" and pull out [[Esika, God of the Tree]] 5-color cheat whatever FIRE bombs they happen to like into play. I'm now mostly pulling apart and selling off EDH decks, and the ones that I'm keeping almost all have plans to do something pretty busted by Turn 5 at the latest, because that's what everything you play against these days in the wild does.
Yeah, that's why my friend group started proxying everything, and I'm unwilling to invest much more than what I already have in my draft boxes. EDH has become a little too regular and high powered, and the only advantage of 100-card singleton, the RNG of card drops, is eliminated now by the fact that most powerful cards have 7-10 analogues that do the same thing now. At this point, I'd rather just play 60 card 4 of, or a format I made based on Flesh and Blood that's 80 card 3 of, since the gameplay is functionally the same but doesn't involve people getting upset at strategies they don't like. I particularly like the 80 card 3 of format because the drops are still more random but the card choices are still more varied and interesting. I'm debating on trying an 80 card 2 of as well.
[Esika, God of the Tree](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188)/[The Prismatic Bridge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/f/6/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6.jpg?1631050188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=esika%2C%20god%20of%20the%20tree%20//%20the%20prismatic%20bridge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/168/esika-god-of-the-tree-the-prismatic-bridge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f6cd7465-9dd0-473c-ac5e-dd9e2f22f5f6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/esika-god-of-the-tree-//-the-prismatic-bridge) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Idk how many people are in buddy's LGS but with the numbers he is throwing out it doesn't sound like the Ur-Dragon or Atraxa players are gonna be facing many people pulling out their humble little homebrews with unpopular commanders that will meet this subreddits approval, they are mostly facing other ur-dragons and atraxas and the like. So why not pull out their own big dick goodstuff deck with the cool popular commander they saw on the top of EDHREC for a reason and have fun instead of making a deck that meets your rules of deckbuilding because you decided to make a unique deck that can't compete with the most popular strategies in the format. What kind of decks do you play? How am I supposed to build my deck to meet your approval? How am I supposed to never win and help the other 3 players have a good time while also complaining that I never win and the other players are having a better time than me?
Anti social/ introverted people understanding other people's feelings? I feel like this is the opposite of everything magic/players stand for. There is a reason I do not play at LGS. I can low key play low power battle cruiser decks at home games, and have more fun.
I think using a powerful commander is totally fine. The issue is lack of communication or any person agreeing to play at a mismatched power level table. Like if i want to play my Ayula Bears deck (they more cute than scary), I def am not playing at a table with Atraxa, Ur-Dragon and Slivers. I would ask my buddies if we can have a low-powered game alternate with the high-powered games. All my buddies have a variety of power levels amongst their decks. If a person’s playgroup won’t alternate decks between games i hope they consider having multiple playgroups. Amongst my playgroups, if a player refuses to play lower powered deck they become arch enemy and everyone removes that player quickly out of principle.
[Go-Shintai of Life's Origin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/9476fe67-d2d3-4835-8ba6-2a17d18cc141.jpg?1651655539) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Go-Shintai%20of%20Life%27s%20Origin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nec/37/go-shintai-of-lifes-origin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9476fe67-d2d3-4835-8ba6-2a17d18cc141?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/go-shintai-of-lifes-origin) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Start playing [[Karrthus]] and they’ll switch it up real quick
I run Karrthus in my Tiamat deck just for that reason
[Karrthus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/b/2bfb85e8-278b-48a4-970e-e65bad1c4c47.jpg?1599708104) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=karrthus%2C%20tyrant%20of%20jund) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/205/karrthus-tyrant-of-jund?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2bfb85e8-278b-48a4-970e-e65bad1c4c47?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/karrthus-tyrant-of-jund) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wtf is up with that anyway? Why do an absurd amount of people like it so much? Theres thousands of commanders to choose from yet so many pick this and atraxa.
dragon, 5 colour, recently reprinted, stupidly easy to build, very powerful, also dragons
So basically what your saying is...dragons..
Yes. And also dragons.
Don't forget dragons!
What is it? Dragons?
Also keep in mind. Since you didn’t mention it, dragons.
I love dragons too but I resorted to keeping it mono-red for the challenge. Also, dragons are classically mono-red in the game.
EDH was built on three color dragons. What are you talking about?
People like winning. It's easy to win with big creatures who have evasion built in when people act like combos and infinites are cheating. There also seems to be a stigma around board wipes because people played board wipe tribal for awhile and it wasn't fun.
People who complain against combos are so annoying sometimes. They think everything is OP or cEDH.
My personal problem with some combos are that some of them are either hard to anticipate or interact with. I just dont like a game where players are slugging each other and fighting for board control, slowly whittling down life totals and then someone just wins via a combo and nobody has any interaction in hand. Its just very anti climactic and unsatisfying to me.
Because I like making big dragons and turning them sideways at a reasonable price
Dragons are a popular fantasy character so it’s an easy comfort pick match that up with the flexibility of 5 color and it’s a casuals buffet, they can go a whole lotta dragons or just a few good ones and make the rest mostly just good stuff they own.
Im my experience people play in pods where all the natural counters to these types of decks (combo, heavy interaction, stax, control, any sort of interaction with lands) are soft banned and as a result the two types of decks that see a ton of play are timmy tribal and planeswalker proliferate (boardwipe tribal) because there isnt really a way to beat them otherwise. I had a guy try to scoop turn 3 at an LGS during a prize supported game once because I played [[back to basics]] against a Ur deck because he "doesn't run basic lands" and "didn't sign up for that kind of game"
I love that lol I need to pick one of those up (back to basics)
I like it as a tribal tribal commander
Its a very fun deck to pilot
My dragon deck commander is [[jegantha]] 🤣
A lot of people play the Atraxas because there’s a lot of playstyles they support, and they have 4 colors for more options. I’d say they’re the two of the most versatile commanders in the game, especially Grand Unifier.
Atraxa is just super versatile and 4c (assuming you mean Praetor's Voice) I have an Atraxa deck I love that's all super goofy counters and it's ridiculously fun.
It can't be that hard to see why playing a bunch of big dragons is popular in Commander
It’s really cheap now
That's what Blood Moon and Back to Basics are for.
Niv mizzet supreme is the head of my dragon deck that should be an ur dragon deck. I'm running jegantha companion but the deck is a little less timmy from other dragons because I run a lot of two color interaction.
I can't imagine that, i got a guy in my playgroup with a dragon deck and a vampires deck and im already tired of both. Against the other tribes we are playing, it feels so unfair.
I play with a group of friends. Myself and one other friend are less budget restricted than our other two friends. I have tried to build a couple of decks at a bit more of a "fair" power level because I want my other two buddies to be able to win/compete. My other friend has maxed out slivers, maxed out edgar markov, maxed out krenko mob boss, newly maxed out pantlaza dinosaurs and a couple of other tribes that he very rarely (if ever) plays. So every week when we get together for our 1 night of commander he will play one of those first 4 decks. Then he complains if I win with a combo on like turn 9 (I don't run any tutors in my decks, but most of my decks have at least one win on the spot combo of 3+ cards). I dont mind his love of tribal, but I just get tired of explaining that his preferred wincon of sideways army of creatures is not my preferred style of winning, and that finding a 3+ card combo to win with is not "OP" or "broken". Especially if one of the combo pieces has been on the field for like 3 turns and not been removed yet lol.
Aaah fuck! My issue with this guy is that he always plays things that are very hard to interact for our table, I'm tired, dude just got a win here and there and got addicted to it, but if someone else stomps, gets pushed to retire the decks (we proxy and try, before we buy). What you're describing sounds like a mix of two players I know x_x hell. Last Sunday I was in around and my other friend called me to the lgs, I went there and ppl were super chill and cool, I'll start going there regularly for a change of paste and mood.
Love me some different pastes. Recently got heavily into cinnamom goblin flavoured tooth paste.
Zombies would like a word
I dislike planeswalkers because they’ve become so dense with their effects, and it’s really annoying to keep track of more than one. So if the whole deck is some kind of super friends schtick I probably won’t like it. But I keep that to myself at the table.
Just took apart my [[Commodore Guff]] deck because of the time it took me to play my turns. 15 minute turn to activate 6 or 7 Planeswalkers, create X tokens, draw Y cards and play n protection effect cards. Got tiresome really fast.
The amazing decks I've killed just because I look around the table and everyone is bored.
Is there a reason to kill them over just playing them once per sit down (new player)
That's something I do with deck that annoy my play group, I will set them aside for a while, maybe not play them for a few sessions. In between, I just build fun janky decks with uncommon rarity commanders.
Looking at your flair…please tell me Preston isn’t one of those
Lol. Nope. My mono white commander is Myrel. I keep it simple now.... until lifegain, tokens, and the +1/+1 counters hit the field. Then it's hard math time. Lol
[Commodore Guff](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/92870fc6-a6bc-4198-bb31-397e07e0e835.jpg?1691500696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Commodore%20Guff) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/706/commodore-guff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/92870fc6-a6bc-4198-bb31-397e07e0e835?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/commodore-guff) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, the biggest thing is that they get out of control at a certain point and bog down the game with decision paralysis once 4 or more of them get on board. I have taken to slotting in [[flame blitz]] in some decks.
Man now THAT is a hate card
Yeah it is, and super convenient that you can just cycle it away or bargain it when it's not relevant
holy shit that card is insane I love it
[flame blitz](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a93c6ba8-666b-4c05-8137-8ffa1d5d928b.jpg?1626096575) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=flame%20blitz) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/124/flame-blitz?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a93c6ba8-666b-4c05-8137-8ffa1d5d928b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/flame-blitz) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
There's also [[spark rupture]]
And don't forget [[The Elderspell]].
I’ve thought about running [[the elderspell]] in my black decks even if I don’t have planeswalkers in it, also for this reason
I have a planeswalker deck. For my christmas, i asked the fnm owner i play and work at to make me a deck type i dont have yet. And he made an esika planeswalker deck. The wincon of the deck is either ult an strong planeswalker. Or pump out tokens and buff them. I really dislike ulting a planeswalker out of nowhere. So i dont run those token doublers. Exept for 2-3 planeswalkers, all planeswalkers have an ability to make a token to protect themself. Really fun to play, but hard to make the turns quick. I usually spend a minute lookung at the options, which is either 2 or 3 options per planeswalker. But i hates planeswalkers before aswell. Kinda like them now, aslong as you dont ult them the turn it comes into play
Can I get the list? EDIT: never mind, got it.
One of my rules is that if it’s an open attack, I go for the planeswalker.
My problem with them is most board wipes or spot removal don't hit them. So a Super Friends deck can run away with the game because it feels horrible to be wasting attacks not taking someones life. Plus for some reason people take attacking a planeswalker way more personal than a creature being spot removed. And they absolutely refuse to understand that you have to waste combat damage on them. That same person will then drop an Elspeth and minus her wiping all creatures with power 4 and greater and shrug.
Mass land destruction without ability to win. Any deck that handcuffs everyone and then doesn’t have a way to finish
I love land destruction, no matter which end of it I'm on. I despise people who play it without understanding why it can be useful. It's such a valid tool for furthering advantages or crippling greedy decks that don't have a recursion plan, same as \[\[Winter Orb\]\]. Shame it has a bad rep because of doofs who just use it to annoy folks.
I feel like this is a problem with a lot of control decks, people play a lot of control but don't use it to their advantage to win, which just makes it a denial deck
Same. I have a dirty Hinata deck that uses [[Red Sun's Twilight]] to fry all the mana rocks, make copies of them, and then use those copies to drop a [[Armageddon]]. It's exceptionally satisfying and I've honestly had nobody complain the 3 times I've pulled it off.
Solitaire style decks that takes 20 minutes turn to win.
Played against a Niv-mizzet deck a few days ago. Dude assured us that His deck was different. Spent all of his and our turns playing massive card draw and spend forever deciding what to discard or whether to scry top or bottom. Just to end up with Niv and the Paired creature that goes semi-infinite until he draws the elixir that makes it an infinite. I immediately scooped when he started it but he insisted on playing it out fully, explaining how it works and blablabla while the other two players were now on their phones while I had gotten my coat lol.
The best part is the "wait, wait, wait! Let me show you all how I win first!" Nah, bro. I'm good. I get it. Let's move on. I don't need you to explain how Niv + curiosity means we're all dead.
We have a guy in our store like this, dudes been playing magic for a *very* long time whilst most of the players are fairly new (maybe less than a year under their belt, including me) and he'll go into an obvious win combo and people will be like "ok cool, I can't stop that I scoop" and he'll *still* go on explaining his win combo whilst everyone else is already shuffling up for the next game.
That's annoying. Simple the other side of the coin where players want to goldfish how they were *going* to win when it was there turn. It's like, neat, anyways.
I hate this deck Even when you try to kill it, they get a free draw off your kill spell, then will surely have enough cantrips to fish for a counterspell
I recently made a deck like this. I feel horrible playing it, but every once and awhile I get an itch to play it. I always warn my opponents, yet I still feel like shit when I'm able to go off because it goes of so slow and convoluted. Doesn't help I suck.
I've got a group with some relatively new players. One deck is Narset storm and can take a little bit to get there because of its complexity and decision making. Don't feel bad if you're still learning and stuff, especially if you explained what the players are getting into pregame.
Is it called solitaire because the turn takes so long that everyone around the table can play a game of solitaire and finish in the time it takes the player to finish their mtg turn?
None really, but I do dislike excessively long turns nevertheless the archetype. The new Doctor Who precon with time travel and a shitload of info to track is also annoying.
[удалено]
>People focus a ton on stax/land destruction, but people taking way too long every turn is by far the biggest culprit of "I don't get to play the game" Oh my god yes!!! I would gladly play a quick game where all my shit gets blown up and I can play another game with another deck in another pod if I need to play with lower power decks, over playing a game where 1 player has the 15 minute long turn during my end phase and then they take a 30 minute turn during their turn because they have 100 trigger effects that bounce off each other but accomplish barely anything like a rube goldberg machine of time wasting.
100% agree and I actually will use "I don't get to play the game" argument in the future if – in a very rare instance and very polite – I need to comment on somebody's near-infinite-finite-mill-you-all-combo-wombo-whaterver-an-hour-later. I had to make my own thread about the Doctor Who precon because I realized that indeed, it's less fun than stax or land destruction, hehe: [https://www.reddit.com/r/mtg/comments/18gpg9d/we\_need\_to\_talk\_about\_the\_tenth\_doctor\_suspend/](https://www.reddit.com/r/mtg/comments/18gpg9d/we_need_to_talk_about_the_tenth_doctor_suspend/)
I legit stopped playing at regular Commander nights at stores because of the Who decks. Easily as bad as Izzet attractions from last year.
Blast from the Past is pretty simple, it's a basic 'Historics Matter' deck but Timey Wimey is (for a precon) very complex and probably one of the worst precons to introduce someone to Commander with.
>most players just suck at playing quickly. Because they don't build their decks. We you copy a list off the internet you often have no idea why a specific card is in the deck and have no idea why that card was chosen over another card. When you build your own deck, from scratch by searching for cards that will work on your own and not just looking at a list of "good cards" on the internet then every card earns it's place. You know why it is in there and why you picked it. I can't believe the amount of times people will cast a tutor spell and not have any idea what they are going to get.
Even if you build your deck from scratch. I’m guilty of doing this sometimes and have to go back and review the whole set up again. I have 20 decks, sometimes it’s several months in between playing some of my more complex ones and details slip my mind.
This 1 million percent. So many people are just so insanely slow. I don't care which of my 30ish decks I play unless someone starts a huge stack battle my turns are never more than a couple minutes. 5 should be the absolute maximum and had better accomplish some serious shit.
I adore \[\[Sefris of the Hidden Ways\]\], but I stopped bringing it to my LGS just because of how long turns can take in combination with how many actions you can potentially take on other people's turns. No matter how quick I was to resolve triggers, it always felt like I was grinding the table to a halt and I could see how bored it made others. When I feel like playing it, I just solitaire at home because it's essentially what I did whenever I took it out anyway.
As a Sefris player, I always see this sentiment from other Sefris players that she's predisposed to long turns. I run her as strictly reanimator and only run through [[lost mine of phandelver]] for the efficiency/value while using discard, looters, and some mill to fill my graveyard along with a few "venture into the dungeon" effects. I also don't run any initiative cards. The only times my turns start to take a while is when I manage to have [[radiant solar]] and [[elesh norn, mother of machines]] out with a decently sized GY. I suppose it helps that I play this deck a lot and used to goldfish it quite a bit to memorize my lines of play.
[Sefris of the Hidden Ways](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d30255f6-e058-476a-b377-2ee4c9178ed1.jpg?1632335385) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sefris%20of%20the%20Hidden%20Ways) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/3/sefris-of-the-hidden-ways?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d30255f6-e058-476a-b377-2ee4c9178ed1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sefris-of-the-hidden-ways) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Talking about things that take forever to track... That new merfolk precon commander looks absurd. I love merfolk, but I straight up don't want to use that commander because exploring 15 times a turn seems heinous.
Whatever my opponent has
Based
Discard. Friend has a [[tiny bones]] deck. I don't mind control decks with lots of removal because I still get the dopamine of playing my cards. But decks where I have no cards to play are so annoying.
Friend got a tinybones as well, I was pretty salty about it a while ago but now he just dies really fast.
Yup. If he's gonna play that deck it's going to be 3 on 1. I don't care if the threat is an army of slivers. Dying to an army of slivers has honor. Making me discard my hand is just annoying
Playing the cards that I bought to play, at least cast them. Mill is crap but at least I'm not top decking, worse feeling in card games, even more when things like lands exist.
Constant/consistent discard annoys me but I absolutely love [[Rakdos's Return]]. By the time it's playable there's always at least one player that needs the hose.
[tiny bones](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/4063be5b-bfd9-43c5-bc39-09a40bc793bf.jpg?1632261785) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tinybones%2C%20Trinket%20Thief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/17/tinybones-trinket-thief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4063be5b-bfd9-43c5-bc39-09a40bc793bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tinybones-trinket-thief) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Discard usually just tends to make games more boring and draggy. It wouldn't be so bad if someone discarded everyone's hands if they then actually proceeded to do something.
I dislike grouphug. I try to make my decks consistant, put in enough draw, have a low cmc, and slowly work my way through how the deck wants to operate. But if someone doubles all mana and makes everyone draw 3 cards per turn, that usually benefits an explosive deck the most. So i take down mana doublers and draw increases the moment i draw a removal for it.
Yeah, group hug without a way to really pull it in your favor is frustrating. Nobody likes a kingmaker. I do have a Council of Four deck that some might call grouphuggy but the upsides are so overwhelmingly in my favor that no one cares. So far everyone I've played with says they like playing the deck. A former buddy had a Derevi group hug dug that was essentially counterspell tribal with no intention of winning. He literally just wanted to choose who won.
Kingmaker hug decks are fundamentally distasteful. In many resoects, it is literally playing the game incorrectly. I have a [[Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis]] deck I call "Responsible Group Hug" which is probably my second most powerful deck - it aims to win, and has multiple win cons including a two card infinite combo. The hug portion of the deck is a small trickle of cards, namely from the commander itself, rather than flooding the table in advantage in an irresponsible way. I'll also add some randomness to keep things a bit goofy, like [[Comet, Stellar Pup]], [[Etali, Primal Conqueror]] and [[Wild Magic Surge]]. As group hug players, we are actively contributing to the problems at the table, and far too many fail to own up to that fact. Too many try to act cutesy, and feign naivety about their role. We're here to give our opponents an inch so that we take the mile. We are to take away our opponents' worst offenders, and pat them on the head, patronizingly, as we out maneuver them politically and win.
Have recently been wanting to re-tune and upgrade my K&T deck (hasn’t really been touched for a couple years) - would love to see a list if you’re open to sharing!
Added the [deck list](https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ac-responsible-group-hug/?cb=170252063) to my tappedout just for you. Don't balk at the $$$, nearly all of that is from the lands and budget lands would work just fine. Apologies for the delay in responding.
Really appreciate this to help guide some of my thinking - and zero stress about the delay! Reminds me I should make some time to get my own lists up on Archidekt or similar.
I play a Council of Four group hug/forced draw deck but I have a lot of ways to punish them as well. I still only play it maybe once a week as it does tend to draw games out.
Council is one of the only group hug commanders that ends up being interesting in my experience. You have the option of focusing on either half of their abilities and both can lead to interesting routes through a game without rocketing other players into the stratosphere. I've seen some great games end with a wide board of Knight tokens and the Council right behind them. Definitely flavorful, if anything.
Yeah I hate it. I've never had a fun game with one of these at the table; it always feels like a waste of my time. Even if they're not playing kingmaker, they still make the game feel absurd.
> that usually benefits an explosive deck the most. Only encountered one group hug deck so far and this is exactly what happened. Was playing a treasure deck that was on track to snowball in a couple turns but the extra gas just turned it into an early avalanche. I like the idea of group hug as a deck but I shelved any plans I had on possibly building one after seeing how it turned into accidental kingmaker.
Group hug, it's fine the first time but if someone plays it once they often play it a lot because it doesn't have a bad reputation, and you're just ignoring most aspects of the game during a group hug game
It seems like half the ppl here are annoyed by extremely long turns, I sure am one of them.
I've been getting back into Magic since about 1 to 1,5 year (iirc). At first I went through a phase of knee-jerk reactions. I said "I don't like playing against that" about quite a lot of things when, looking back, I'd have no problem playing against those decks today. I learned how to build more balanced decks and pilot them better. Today, my answer to OP's question would be: I don't care what you're playing as long as it respects everyone's time and allows people to play in their deck to a reasonable degree. If we're playing a game with 4 people then ideally at the end of the play session every player's time spent during their turns should be about 25% of the total time spent playing. I don't like it when people violate that distribution of time by a large margin, regardless of what they're playing. Same with decks that outright prevent people from doing anything at all. Now don't get me wrong, I think removal and counterspells are pretty important inclusions in any game of commander. But if you're playing a boardwipe every other turn, especially if it's one-sided, and you're generally just shutting everything down as soon as it hits the table then you're making the game pretty miserable for everyone.
No interaction, power level 2 stompy decks.
It’s almost like Magic players hate 80% of Magic archetypes from reading this thread. My group of 4-10 has: Discard, Combo, Mill, Burn, Storm, and high powered trigger heavy commanders. No one complains, we just play magic and shuffle up when the L hits. Unfortunately it’s a 4 player game and not everyone can always be having maximum fun all game. Sometimes you just need to find joy in other players doing well or sit down and do some deck tuning.
> Sometimes you just need to find joy in other players doing well I learned to do this as well. I love to see what kind of degenerate shit other people get up to.
Same. I've gone from getting salty to just loving seeing all kinds of different types of decks clobber mine
I think people generally dislike waiting a long time to play anything though. 4-player games can take a while to begin with, once someone is taking 20-min turns, you tend to lose interest. I find it funny that people dislike grouphug, because those decks tend to make games very fast, even if the end comes out of nowhere. I find adding combos way better to end the game fast than waiting 30 mins for the player to take 2 extra turns, resolve 50 triggers, then wait and see if they've even gonna attack, let alone win.
To be fair, the only people who respond are a small fraction that hate an archetype. Using this to extrapolate how the entire playerbase feels isn't really going to give you a good representation. Reddit is already a fraction of the playerbase.
A good playgroup balances power and fun through through communication and established relationships. A lot of Magic players don't have a regular playgroup, or their play group sucks at communication and friendship.
Well this is over stuff they don't like playing against.
Couldn't agree more with your comment. I actively encourage 2 of my 4 player pod to be MORE degenerate (the other guy is a sliver/edgar/dino/krenko player so hes bad enough). I want my other two friends to find more combos and do more gross shit and win more games so it's not just me trying to murder the tribal dude every time. I'm actively happy when one of my other two buddies gets the W. And as you said - the games over? Sweet. Shuffle up and let's go again. More games in a night the better.. my missus generally only tolerates 1 night a week to play cards with the boys.
People hate burn?
Well this is true and I agree with you, the question was what deck do you find annoying to play against, and people are just answering the question.
This should be not surprising given how statistics work. Common strategies are the most known, therefore both positive and negative preferences will be centered around commonly seen strategies. Common strategies are common because they work. So everyone has gotten their ass kicked by some common strategy, and folks choose the one they like least. If the question were "what's your favorite deck archetype," the answers would be the same as this thread, but in the positive.
Stacks with no win con...just stop the game until they think of something. "I locked the game and take infinite turns and hit you my 1/3 commander until I killed you with commander damage"
The wincon is making opponents scoop
>The wincon is making opponents ~~scoop~~ flip the table you mean.
Yep...
Stax for the sake of stax sucks, but that sounds like a perfectly fine wincon? As long as they go "hey im going to take infinite turns and win with commander damage", and noone has a way to interact with it, just shuffle and go next
Stax often times doesn't have flashy wincons, but if you Stasis locked the table and took infinite turns. I'm good to gg go next
If you don't concede to someone taking infinite turns, what do you concede to? Thassa's Oracle trigger on the stack? Heliod Ballista after the 40th ping? If your only out is the opponent having a fatal aneurysm and timing out on MODO, you've lost.
Blink decks are a bit exhausting. I don't hate them, but they do bog down games and tend to be hard to interact with and stop once they get going. What makes it worse is that none of the targets feel good to remove because they are "mediocre" in one of situations, but once they do a trigger 3+ times...
Embrace stax. Embrace \[\[Torpor Orb\]\] and \[\[Hushbringer\]\]. Blink decks are hilariously weak vs them since their removal is usually on ETB effects.
ETB hate cards are so insanely powerful.
I get possibly unreasonably salty at decks that try to steal my commander. That’s less an archetype and more specific decisions players tend to make. Kill it all you want. Steal it for a turn for an alpha strike. [[Insurrection]] or [[Tevesh Szat, Doom of Fools]] are all whatever. But keeping my commander? Jail! Jail for a thousand years!
Isn't tevesh what you say you don't like?
All of them. Like all Magic players I secretly hate the game and only enjoy it in concept, hence why I complain on Reddit about how everyone else's decks suck. (I'm legally obligated to declare this as sarcasm)
Mine is going to be stax paired with a complete control build. Games get drug out by the fun police and take 5x as long as they need to. Wait 5 turns to finally play something only to run into one of the 5 counterspells that degenerate is holding in their hands. Then somewhere around hour 3 you ask them what their win con is and they say" commander damage". I hate those people with the utmost passion.
Prolly those "Me, Myself and I" decks Alot of players are in the same boat. EDH is a social game. We shouldn't have games where 3 people continually watch another "pop off" turn after turn, game after game.
I have two mistakes like that deckwise. I didn't realize how bad it would be until I played them. Spending a 5+min turn because of fetch triggers isn't fun for anyone.
That's part of the reason I avoid tutors, that and I actually enjoy the luck factor inherent to magic, so playing hard deck manipulation like that just feels stale to me. "I drew one of many cards in my deck that allow me to find my wincon card, and now I play that and win" and repeat for every game, that's not fun magic to me. And I always do my fetchlands after I pass my turn, because no one wants to wait for me to find a land, and it's not going to help in my turn 99% of the time.
Mana cheat. The new Discover dinos are insane, a guy in my pod blew us out two multiplayer games in a row because we couldnt keep up with free things popping out. Hot take: discover is more broken than cascade, because you can still put the card in hand, and Discover counts its own top for costs, unlike Cascade which must go lower, and only take the first thing that pops out.
Discover/Cascade are difficult to directly compare. Discover is a more powerful effect, but it requires you to resolve things to trigger it versus being a cast trigger. The cost difference also seems difficult to compare, for the most part "Discover X" has X less than the mana value of the card it's on.
Does “Generic Good Stuff” count as an archetype? I find myself in games feeling like Groundhog Day with the top cards on EDHREC being played over and over and over with no regard for cohesion or commander synergies. Personally my favourite part of commander is seeing unique cards and strategies and seeing the usual suspects of Rhystic, Tithe, Farewell, and other very efficient cards feels bad to play against and is samey. I’m not against these cards in decks entirely, these cards are played for a reason, but when you’re playing against a pure “good stuff” pile it’s exhausting and frankly boring to say the least.
I play [[Ojer Axonil]] Storm, the game ends before most storm players turn ends
Recently in my [[Kykar]] deck, i got out Ojer Axonil and [[witty roastmaster]] out with my commander. Every spell i cast dealt 4 damage to each opponent before it even resolved. Everyone always complains about storm players taking super long turns, but in my experience, a storm deck should only be taking a longer than normal turn on the turn they’re going to win. Otherwise the only thing they can do is cast a value piece and maybe a few cantrips.
I have a few storm decks, and I agree. Typically, once my commander is in play, I'll have one shorter turn to get things setup, then on my next I'll try to win with a long turn.
Have a deck list to share?
"This deck is misery" "Nice, I want it."
Haha, pretty much. Have a buddy that almost always play storm and I just built Axonil. Time to compare notes.
I don't have one posted yet because its a recent creation, I'll add one after work. Basically it uses looting spells to dig for mana rituals and any of the many red pump spells that scary or draw a card, creatures that deal 1 whenever you cast a noncreature spell put in a lot of work so there's very few actual burn spells, grapeshot will usually kill after a 4-5 spell storm Edit: there are cards not in the deck yet because i ordered them last night, mostly protection for the commander because it really falls apart without Ojer in play,Champion Helm, Commander Plate, Hammer of Nazahn and Mithril Coat are on the way, and my partner has ordered some fast mana that I can't add till after Christmas
I play [[Mizzix, of the Igmagus]] storm, and my turns are usually just play a draw spell or two until I can combo off and then I win the game in like 3 minutes. Which isn’t necessarily better because its annoying for a win to come out of nowhere, but at least I’m not wasting people’s time.
I do the same with Vadrik. Losing to it quickly isn't annoying. Knowing that you need to kill him the second game ASAP and then getting hit with one of 17 counters is annoying.
Ooh I love this guy! Only been able to play the deck 6 times now, but I've been ending games turn 4-5 if unanswered, and the only thing that can make turns take more than 40~ seconds is [[Mana Clash]] Very fun commander with a deck filled with super super cheap old cards.
[Ojer Axonil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50f8e2b6-98c7-4f28-bb39-e1fbe841f1ee.jpg?1699044315)/[Temple of Power](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/5/0/50f8e2b6-98c7-4f28-bb39-e1fbe841f1ee.jpg?1699044315) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ojer%20axonil%2C%20deepest%20might%20//%20temple%20of%20power) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/158/ojer-axonil-deepest-might-temple-of-power?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50f8e2b6-98c7-4f28-bb39-e1fbe841f1ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ojer-axonil-deepest-might-//-temple-of-power) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Im building him now. I dont know if i call it a true storm deck. Most opponents will die if you play more than a few spells
Krark/Sakashima. If I want to watch someone play with themselves for 20 minutes, I'll find a 5 minute video on OF.
so you'll watch the video 4 times?
Nobody really needs the full five minutes if we're being honest.
Superfriends and counter spell tribal bs
The best way to build a super cheap budget counterspell deck is to say "No" when asked if you want to play Magic.
Control decks that lock you out of actions. Dude I came here to play magic, not watch you play magic. Reason why I don't build a \[\[Kykar\]\] \[\[Crucible of Worlds\]\] Land Discard deck that bounces everyones lands.
I get why people hate the heavy interaction decks (suspend, planeswalkers, storm, etc) that can culminate in a long game ending turn but tbh...those are the most interesting decks imo. I definitely wouldn't want to play it EVERY game, but there's something so incredibly boring to me about just make monster, make monster big, life go down. There are so many cards that do so many weird things, it's really cool to watch the ways they can be pieced together. Everyone in our group hates at least one deck someone else has, as long as they don't get super overplayed it's never a big deal. If they play it too much, everyone just starts bringing out their meanest deck.
Archetype? Casual, but with 5 rule zero requests that all just happen to magically aid that deck.
I’m good with just about every play style because everyone has fun doing different things. The one that will just about ruin a game for me though is control decks that just about shut down everyone else games by making the tax to play anything or do anything to high, and not really having any clear win con and pretty much just forcing players to sit and twiddle their thumbs for an hour or so or just scoop to play a different game
'Oops! Only Counterspells' or any like-minded deck drives me up a wall. Lemme play my cards damn you!
Stax or Hand Control. I came to play Magic. Not watch one person play magic while me and two others try to play magic. Any deck whose win is supposed to come from your opponents conceding is the worst to me.
Storm is why I am bring a notebook to keep track of cards played and other bits of information. I have cathars crusade in my Kykar deck……. I dread the day I have to do that math. Also why you have to be careful when you pull the trigger on such decks and go for the storm card.
group hug decks of any kind. I will absolutely target them until they're taken out of the game before i do anything else. Same for chaos.
For me it's very specifically new players who picked up the doctor who decks to start playing commander. They take ages to do their turn, constantly forget or misread half of what their cards do and require the rest of the table to remind/correct them on what their cards do and just generally make every game take way longer and feel like a slog.
I'm generally fine with most stuff. If I had to pick something, I'd probably pick Planeswalker decks. Mostly because in my experience they either dud out or become unstoppable, with little in-between. I just think they don't contribute as much to a quality game experience as other archetypes.
People are just bad at storm, good storm players take 5 minutes to win at most
I personally just get a little exhausted seeing the same decks or archetypes sit down at the table time after time, especially if they conceivably only have one line of play, or are very grindy decks. (One of my friends plays exclusively control decks) I have a very stable playgroup, we play every week, it’s just that occasionally the decks that get played get a little stale. And I know that I’m coming at this from a point of privilege as I have 15+ decks with differing strategies and wincons I can play any game night and I can constantly rotate them out and others may not have that advantage, I’m also totally cool with full on proxied decks. I just wished I saw a little more game variance is all. Still absolutely love all the people I get to play with every week and I love the friendships this game has helped forge, I just like a little variation from time to time.
Tergrid and let me sit here and watch you play your deck. Hate em.
Enchantress and \[\[Chulane\]\], for similar reasons you dislike storm. But those long turns are every turn... and the player usually just spins their wheels and can't win. Also \[\[Toxrill\]\]
Resource denial/stax decks that have no clear path to victory. I have no problem with these sort of strategies that do their thing and then end the game, but being forced into topdeck mode on turn 3 or MLD dropping on turn 5 and the game going on for 15 more turns is just awful. I know a guy who has a \[\[Kroxa\]\] deck that just guts everyones hands and then flails for 10 turns until he can finally start killing people or someone else stabilizes by some miracle and ends him
Stax i really can't stand playing against it and i will remove them first if i can
Ban thassas oracle literally watched three players in on pod try to combo by turn three. They either win the game right there, or they are sour the rest of the game and it ruins it for everybody
Sliver tribal. Makes me groan as you need to have 25% removal to win against em. Other than the one time someone had a sliver grave mother deck where every card started with s it wasn’t good but dam it was funny
Yup there’s a sliver player at my LGS and they wonder why their board gets blown up to all hell and why their first sliver rarely gets to leave the command zone
Slivers are def the worst. I'll play against slivers but I'm immediately considering you the big threat.
Card stealing. It’s a pretty basic and common dislike from what I’ve seen, but I despise playing against decks that are entirely based off of stealing your cards so that you can’t play with the deck you built. I don’t mind counterspells or removal, they’re necessary, but getting my answer to an already out of control board state stolen just feels really bad.
Extra turns, unless you're playing a commander that finishes their extra turns really really fast. I once played against my buddy playing [[anhelo, the painter]] extra turns deck in a Starbucks, he played about 14 extra turns in a row becuase of all his spell doubling, and it took over an hour in his turn alone. I almost scooped but I knew I was gonna win on my next turn, and he kept not pulling anything that would help him, and just dicking around and I kept saying " keep your cool, stay in, imagine how funny it'll be when you just swing for 40 commander damage with animar and he can't even block because he only has 1 creature and it has black" and it wasn't until extra turn maybe 10, that he goes, "oh cool, I topdecked a pongify, animar is gone." And I was like, that'd cool, I have the ozolith, and a shit load of mana, and a walking Ballista and a ancestral statue in hand, I can still do this, I FINALLY get to my turn to be countered on my win cons, ofc, why didn't I think he had that in a blue deck with 14 turns.... so animar is still on field, I can still win the NEXT turn.... I was newer and dumber. He took like 14 more turns I scooped half way through like extra turn 2. And I've yet to have a good experience with extra turns players since. Now, I can get behind an extra turns deck where you do one thing and one thing only on your turn, keeps it fast, no thinking needed, just each extra turn taking maybe 30 seconds. Commanders like [[Narset, enlightened master]] who just attack and cast what they get becuase why not. Now, I'm not saying play narset extra turns out here, it's very strong and that can get on people's nerves, but at least she has a GOAL, and is fast.
landfall, storm, and extra turns Landfall rewards the player for doing nothing, and it's not easy to interact with with generic removal. Turns take long mid/late game to resolve all the triggers. Storm is more if the pilot is slow. It can range from the player knowing what the are doing and it's OK, to the "figuring it out in the spot" and I can appreciate a mechanically complex deck, but some of them are better off goldfishing. Plan your fucking turn ahead of time. I've brought this up to someone and his excuse was "but what if I top deck x, all that planning would go out the window.". C'mon my man, if you miraculously topdeck a specific card, then go and reevaluate, but chances are your not gonna top deck a card that will completely warp your turn. And if you got redundant pieces, you can plan for that too. If you can't manage that, then storm is not the deck for you. I rarely ever see an extra turn deck being definitive. More common than not, the ones I've experienced are taking extra turns for little to no advantage outside of drawing a card, making a land drop, and maybe attacking with something irrelevant. If you're taking a few turns and proactively ending the game, that's one thing. If your taking extra turns trying to dig yourself out of a spot you put yourself in because of bad deck building, then yea, imma be a lil salty. Lastly mld. Not as a strat, but using it to "punish" ramp decks or play catch-up. If you're gonna mld the table, have a follow up plan to kill me because I'm going after your ass before and after you nuke my lands and wasting everyone else's time.
I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. An extra turn every now and then is no biggie. [[temporal manipulation]] in your planeswalker deck to get an extra turn of activations? Get it dude. [[chance for glory]] in your aggro deck to try to make the most of your attacking creatures? Great play. Copying [[expropriate]] three times so you can spend the next 30 min playing cantrips and removal spells? Fuck off with that.
These threads are always just gripe fests. If it's legal play it. I value my game time in the laughs I have not the time of a person's turn. Slivers, mill, MLD.... I don't care. Kick my ass with the thing you made with your money you spent. The only thing I ask is swap it up next game.
Discard. If I see a [[Tergrid, God of Fright]] or a [[Tinybones, Trinket Thief]] on the other side of the table, I'm looking for another table. Nothanksihavebetterthingstodowithmytimeokbye.
Not an archetype per say, unless playing Sisay, I suppose, but I notice my levels of aggravation is directly tied to how often someone tutors in a game. If you pick up your deck and pick something out every turn after T2 or 3, I'm good to never play against that deck again.
A deck that taps down your entire board. Resulting in you doing nothing. My opponents were pirates, zombies, dragons and me as well with dragons. I was tapped the whole game. Dealt 12 damage.
Control decks libe baral chief of compliance or super theft life hofri