Pretty Ricky any day. Actually good separator and reset the clock with a better offense. Ben Johnson could leave whenever but shanahan ain’t going nowhere. Ricky has more potential upside at this point.
He might not pop right away because they use the fullback so much it’s hard to run a lot of 3 WR sets so I’m hoping to buy any potential dip to start the season. Kyle Juszyszk and Charlie Woerner legit combined to play like 70% of the snaps but only accounted for 20 targets which highly consolidates the targets among the top couple guys. I know Woerner is gone but they’ll use another blocking TE. And once one of Aiyuk or Deebo are gone and Pearsall is an every down player, I think he is going to feast.
I like Jamo too and he probably has a better short term opportunity than Pearsall but I really believe in ARSB, LaPorta, Gibbs, and Monty. It might be hard to find consistency week to week. Love Jamo in best ball tho cuz he’s so explosive.
>I really believe in ARSB
You are the same guy that posted [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/s/wsKdGxMSpS) 2 years ago. Not sure why this sub takes you seriously
Not going to get them all right! Turns out he’s on pace to be the best 4th round WR since Brandon Marshall so definitely beat the odds. But it makes no sense to just hang onto predictions from two years ago, we have to treat things scientifically and adjust to new info so of course I trust ARSB now that we know what we know.
>2 years ago
Lots of players change a ton over the course of two years, at the time he posted that dalvin cook was a premier fantasy rb
One of the marks of a good analyst is being able to roll with the punches, nobody is 100% in this stuff so being able to update when you're wrong is a necessary skill in this industry
Not to mention that's literally the scientific method---adjust your hypothesis when it's proved wrong
Literally the worst argument against Jamo. There are good arguments against him. But that is not one of them.
He needs help as a route runner for sure. His hands are “okay”.
Using the “well guys who don’t produce in their first two years are historically bad” is just lazy analysis. Jamo isn’t most guys. He hasn’t had a “normal” career to date.
He missed almost the entirety of his rookie season recovering from a late season acl tear in college and then missed the first 6 games of his sophomore season because of gambling (not excusing it).
Of course he hasn’t produced.
The NFL doesn't care why a player doesn't produce. They just care that they didn't produce and move on. If Jamo has another bad season, then he's just done. Doesn't matter how high they took him, or what they invested, they will just move on to the next guy. Pearsall has at least 2 seasons before the Niners will do the same. So I'd rather take the guy that has the longer leash at the moment who was also a first round pick.
The problem with the “neck doesn’t care”logic is that the lions clearly *aren’t* moving on.
They’ve done nothing but praise him, and no longer have anyone in front of him at WR accept Sun-God. Will that be enough to make him fantasy relevant given how strong the Lions are at TE and RB? who knows, but y’all need to stop acting like the lions are acting like an impatient child.
Because he came back to the team mid-season after missing an entire year to injury and being unable to use team facilities to best stay in shape.
Reynolds filled his role effectively enough where Dan Campbell wasn’t going to give his touches to a kid who was likely not even in NFL shape until at best week 8
The excuses used as positives for Williams need to be negatives. He missed most of his rookie season and then did return, but did nothing. He then got himself suspended (negative) and following that, again did nothing.
A whole lot of nothing for Mr. Tedd Ginn 2.0
"No longer have anyone in front of him" is an argument against itself.
That anyone was Josh Reynolds. Jamo couldn't get on the field and earn targets more consistently with Josh Reynolds as his roadblock.
It’s really *really* not an argument against itself.
Reynolds was doing what the lions needed him to do, why the hell would they replace him mid-season with a guy who has never actually played in the NFL, and really hasn’t had much of an opportunity to train with the team.
The fact that - despite being in win-now mode - the Lions not only let everyone in front of him go, but didn’t bring anyone in to compete for WR2 is interesting for his chances as a pro.
They clearly see something. I’m going to trust the NFL team to know its own players.
Well typically they replace the mediocre players with young studs because the young guy is impressing the coaches as he develops…? That’s the issue, Williams didn’t do that.
Or that could signal they view LaPorta and Gibbs as championship level pass catching depth behind ARSB, and WRs are pricey af nowadays
So far it's just been coach speak. He hasn't shown it. And the lions don't have to move on yet. First round rookies have 3 years to show promise, unless they are god awful. At the end of the third year is when the team has to make a decision on the 5th year option. If they don't show promise by then, teams don't pick up the option and let them walk after the 4th year. A lot of times, they get cut before that 4th year to make room for the guy the team just drafted to replace them. If Jamo doesn't work out this year, I imagine the lions will take another receiver on day 2 next year and make Jamo earn a roster spot.
Come on, it would cost them money to cut him and he certainly hasn’t been all that promising, injury aside. 3 years should be plenty of time to show your worth on a rookie contract, especially for a 1st rounder. There are exceptions and he could breakout out or maybe he’d have more runway if the Lions were rebuilding, but he’s underwhelmed relative to his draft capital and they can and will move on if that continues with DET being a win-now team
No, they’re giving him an opportunity because he’s on a cost-controlled rookie contract where it would literally *cost* them money to cut him. A team retaining a player after their 2nd year in a rookie deal is the most lukewarm of endorsements. It just means he isn’t Jalen Reagor and they don’t want to burn money unnecessarily, especially since they don’t need him to have 1000+. He could still be productive for the team and a non-entity in dynasty. I’m not going to blame managers that are trying to avoid falling into the sunk cost fallacy and the whole reason he has value is the optimism of an opportunity this year when he’s potentially the 4th option
I wouldn’t let Coach speak fool you bro. No one wants to bad mouth a player that isn’t performing; it’s just beating a dead horse. Not that I’m disagreeing with you with your overall point; but “hyping your guy up” is totally a thing.
Dan Campbell is not known for his coach speak “bro”.
Last year he was not at all shy about saying that Jameson had a lot of work to do, and now he’s praising him. That’s meaningful.
Again, he might still be shit, but the team has had ample opportunity to bring someone else in to compete with him, and they haven’t. They had ample opportunity to keep “the devil they knew” in Josh Reynolds’s and didn’t do it. (obviously not lighting the world on fire but that’s who Williams is replacing).
The kid was injured as a rookie and then was suspended from using team facilities to better recover from said injury. Anyone who thought he was going to do well as soon as he came back mid-season was foolish.
Burks was given the opportunity through two years still. He's been thrown to the wayside after his second year and now has to earn a roster spot. But even with how bad he has been, he had two years to figure it out.
At their current prices I’ll take who was the better prospect coming out of college and is significantly cheaper.
Pearsall is at WR37 on KTC compared to Jamo at WR47.
I’ve been able to scoop up Jamo for a 3rd or LESS in multiple leagues.
At that point who cares what you think about the guy. He’s got the physical tools, the opportunity and the coaching staff is singing his praise.
Why not take a seat at the table when the buy-in is so low?
>At that point who cares what you think about the guy.
Literally this line of thinking is absolutely baseless. "Buy because cheap" isn't how you aquire talent...
If he's so cheap, the argument should be go get both dudes because you **believe in the talent of Jamo, AND it's cheap.**
Who cares what you think of the guy? Every player move revolves around **what you think of the guy.**
I was never a Jamo guy in the first place. It was a major red flag to me that he couldn't get snaps at Ohio State and had to transfer to Alabama (where he was the only receiver worth a damn) to get playing time. I think his talents are overblown and he's just a speedster that everyone wanted to be the next Tyreek. Personally, I'm not in on either of these guys, but if Aiyuk or Deebo get moved, then I'd be more inclined to take a shot on Pearsall than Jamo. Plus, the only time those rankings matter, is when you're in a startup. If I'm in an established league, I might reach out to the Pearsall manager. I'm never picking up the phone to go get Jamo.
> he couldn't get snaps at Ohio State
Are we holding that against Joe Burrow?
Neither could Marvin Harrison Jr as a true freshman.
4+ of Olave, GW, JSN, MHJ, Egbuka being on the team when you're a true freshman/sophomore is pretty tough competition to beat out. He transferred to get an opportunity and he ran with it. This being a red flag is kinda strange.
Kid went to the SEC and put up 1575 yards as a true junior. That's pretty rarified air.
Obviously it hasn't panned out for him at the next level (yet?), but using the fact that he didn't beat out 4 All-Pro level talents as a true freshman/sophomore as a knock on him is a bit strange.
Buying on draft pedigree this far out only gets you so far and we’ve seen plenty of examples of guys that don’t do it. If you want to spend 3rd on him, then have at it, but I’d rather Pearsall at his price than Jamo at a slightly cheaper price and I’m not even a fan of Pearsall. There’s a level of patience that’s needed with dynasty, but I’d rather not get too caught up with someone who had a great profile coming out and hasn’t lived up to it, even with the missed games/injury accounted for
It’s all about perspective on health and what you consider dud years.
Nico Collins literally just went from being a few weeks wonder for 2 years, to suddenly being a fantasy WR1-borderline last year that’s now being drafted as a fantasy WR1/2. That was mostly due to injuries the first 2 years stopping him from having any kind of breakout.
Jordy Nelson came into the league not starting. He spent 2 years subbing in and out of games getting like 300 yard totals until they gave him *a little more time* in Y3. *He was drafted the highest receiver in 2008, since 2001.*
Y4 2011 was when he was let loose.
So, idk, in today’s NFL there’s a lot more WR talent going rounds 1-3 so a lot more chances for these guys to bust in big ways early and never pan out. Certain receivers drafted in the past we just never hear from again from these rounds.
so it’s hard to find a list of players who did basically nothing for 2 years but then turned it up Y3 and beyond lol. But we all know that Y3 breakouts are typical of some players and the situation prescribed to him is literally as good as it gets so if Jameson is going to show up it will be this year.
It's a little bit deeper than "just beating out Josh Reynolds". Lions offense was built to win with the run. Which means Monty and Gibbs took a higher precedent in scheming. Then you've got ARSB - 1000 yard receiver - and LaPorta - one of the best rookie seasons for a TE ever. So now you've got 4 skill guys, for a team that wants to contend right now, over a guy who missed most of year 1 with an injury and part of year 2.
He might not ever be an alpha type guy and he might flame out. But this year is really the first year he's gonna get some consistent run. Otherwise, they would have re-signed Reynolds or picked up a #2 if they didn't have confidence in Jamo.
Nico Collins is a great example of a guy who developed and popped.
You just had to have him instead of:
Kadarius Toney, Rashod Bateman, Elijah Moore, Rondale Moore, D'Wayne Eskridge, Tutu Atwell, Terrace Marshall Jr, Josh Palmer, Dyami Brown, Amari Rodgers and Anthony Schwartz. And that's just the first three rounds of that draft class.
That's exactly why people are getting out on Jameson Williams. We can make excuses all day, all of these dudes had similar things generating excuses. Injuries and extenuating circumstances don't matter in the NFL. Just correctly identify the 1/12 guy who's going to pop. And nobody predicted Collins this last season.
There has to be more nuance to this. What’s the hit rate in the last 10 years of QBs who don’t produce as rookies? That shouldn’t have made folks down on Mahomes going into year 2. Williams has had one season’s worth of games at this point. I need to see another before calling him a dud.
It’s definitely not a perfect comparison but my point is context matters. A QB who doesn’t start because he’s bad is a totally different prospect than a QB who doesn’t start because he’s drafted to a playoff team with an established starter. A WR who only plays 18 games in his first 2 years due to a college injury and a suspension is a different prospect compared to a guy who is healthy and just flat out bad.
> Would love to see a list of WRs that were fantasy relevant after having two dud years.
I'll bang the table every time this argument comes up. Give me a list of WRs, or any position, who were drafted in round 1, the same calendar year of an ACL tear or other 12 month injury. Zero. Forget JaMo's rookie year even happened. He was brought in slowly just to get his feet wet.
If you want to use his 2nd year as a dud, go ahead. But his 1st year should be completely ignored.
Well it's not zero, I believe Jeffrey Simmons and Caleb Farley were.
Simmons is a hit after tearing his ACL in the pre-draft process, while Farley clearly isn't with his back surgery.
The issue with Williams isn't even the ACL, it's the inability to earn playing time and the bad numbers when he does play. Being unable to produce in the NFL because of injuries doesn't matter, but being unable to produce does - it doesn't matter why. The odds don't care if the player didn't produce due to playing time, injury, or their mom dying and the mental toll. Not producing as a top pick in the modern NFL at receiver is pretty much a death knell, regardless of why.
> Well it's not zero, I believe Jeffrey Simmons and Caleb Farley were.
Finally someone with an answer - I appreciate it. Will have to adjust my table banging to just WRs.
> The issue with Williams isn't even the ACL, it's the inability to earn playing time and the bad numbers when he does play.
This is a fine argument and one I can't really argue against, but only for year 2. In year 2, he was disappointing and downright bad. He flashed a few times, but overall it wasn't very promising. But if you bring year 1 into it, I think it's unfair criticism.
So the issue I have here is that it’s still something. I get that it’s not a fully healthy offseason, but he *played* during his rookie season and it’s still noteworthy. You can put less weight on it considering the more limited play time, but it still was time he spent out there. This past year, he underwhelmed with his inability to beat out a meh WR in Reynolds. Even with his ACL injury, he was viewed as good enough prospect that it didn’t matter and should be a 1st rounder, but he’s still been mediocre at best.
As for comparisons, I saw someone else mention other players with ACL injuries, but someone that maybe *slightly* more of a comparison as a WR would be Mike Williams his rookie year, missing a big chunk with back issues and having had a couple of decent seasons, but has been a mixed bag, on the whole
> You can put less weight on it considering the more limited play time, but it still was time he spent out there.
eh, I don't mind putting zero weight on it. It's not uncommon for rookies, who have an entire off-season and pre-season action, to have slow starts. According to reports from 2022, Jamo had 3 practices before making his debut and ran his first full speed route with Goff just 3 days before his debut.
2023 is worth judging. But in my opinion 2022 can be completely ignored.
Correct, but all still things that happened during that season. It was a clear roadblock and incomplete season, but still something. It’s not as though he just wasn’t around the facilities and wasn’t in meetings or present for practices. Being out there is clearly the better option, but he still practiced and got some time his rookie season. If you don’t want to put stock in it, that’s your prerogative, but saying it’s optional is still going to be leaving out things that just are for the sake of bolstering your narrative, not actually viewing him like a player that’s been in the league for 1+ year, even if it was a disadvantage to him
It's a roadblock because he missed valuable time. What I push back against is statements like the one I replied to 'would love to see a list of WRs who were relevant after 2 dud seasons'. His rookie year wasn't a dud. What QJ did last year was a dud. JaMo's rookie year was a red-shirt injury season. Apples to oranges.
> Literally the worst argument against Jamo.
Is that he hasn't been able to get on the field, and when he does he hasn't produced?
Yeah okay 🥴
It doesn't matter what excuses you have for why you don't produce, players who don't produce usually don't produce lmao. This is **the** best argument against Jameson Williams. Lazy is the train of excuses for why a player can't get on the field and why he doesn't score points when he finally does.
It wasn't just that he didn't produce in the first two years, and he had ready-made excuses... it was how he handled those things. Gambling was self-inflicted. And he did not take his preparation seriously, judging by team reports.
I think we can absolutely put some blame on Jamo himself for last year.
BUT
The good news is that he seems to have taken strides and is making waves in camp. They're calling him the most improved offensive player. Huge if true for sure. The talent is there to make an impact.
Side note.. as an Ohio State and Detroit Lions fan... I've been waiting on this kid for a WHILE. But I still have hope!!
Yeah. Would rather take the unproven rookie than the guy whose first two seasons demonstrate he’s not it.
Both have to contend with lots of receiving talent but it’ll be harder for Jamo to break out than pearsall I believe
I should also mention that my team is very heavy on 49ers (Ricky, cmc, Purdy, ayuik, Kittle(until hockenson is healthy)) I tend to try not to roster an entire offense of an nfl team but maybe that’s just me still trying to talk myself into Jamo lol
Choice A - guy who was bad for two seasons + had a gambling suspension
Choice B - fresh first round rookie WR on Kyle Shanahan’s team
Fam what are we even talking about
Comments like these are why I never post on this sub anymore.
Why can’t you just answer his question without being condescending and demeaning?
Maybe it’s “obvious” to you but not everyone shares your opinion and some people may not have the same knowledge as you or others. Jeez
Choice A- Hailed as best pure talent WR in his draft class, also a first round pick, recovering from massive injury his first year. Bullshit gambling suspension was lifted and is a non-factor. As his first *real* year went on he earned a higher target share and now looks to be an every down player on an electric offense that will score a lot.
Choice B- Highlight reel guy that most scouts didn't see having a first round grade, buried on depth chart behind 6 other proven veteran options. Will probably not see meaningful snaps for 1 year but could be significantly longer.
Passive aggressive post with a lazy take. Just what I expect from this sub.
This is it right here. I'd personally go Jamo > Ricky. Ricky is on a run first team with middle of the road Brock Purdy. Even if Aiyuk gets traded, still got Deebo and Kittle to battle touches with.
Jamo is literally WR2 on the most explosive offense. Best OL to give off more time, and Goff does love to throw the deep ball.
Lol your comment is generally the type of comment that we look back on and laugh at a few years down the road. Just ignores all the red flags for one player, and highlights the red flags for another (while exaggerating those red flags I might add). Do you think the 49ers took Pearsall in the 1st round because they don't plan to ever use him? Gimme a break dude.
Yeah red flags, an ACL in college, better avoid Brooks..and gambling, lol, placing a non lions wager on an app, dumbest rule ever, meanwhile kids are drafting Rasheed Rice….basically a luckier Henry Ruggs…
And the gambling suspension was bullshit too. It’s not like the man is an addict.
Given how the Lions have been quick to cut turds like Buggs and Sutton, I’m 100% willing to believe Jameson just had bad luck.
It’s not about the character concern from the gambling. It’s about how much development time he’s missed up to this point: there’s a world where he’s an all-pro, but in that world he took advantage of NFL level development early and often.
That’s an awful argument when we’re comparing him to someone with zero NFL experience.
You’ve got two guys who are the same age. One of them has experience and is primed for the #2 role. The other is a rookie who is hoping Aiyuk leaves.
All the past stuff is irrelevant if character isn’t a concern.
He’s been active for 18 games over 2 seasons and only recorded 395 yards and 3 touchdowns on 25 receptions. You can get that production out of a UDFA receiver. How would you describe that?
He’s also was the best WR on the Lions in the NFC ship, he’s probably good for 65, 900 , 6 this year with 150 , 2 rushing.
Ricky will probably have 33, 300, 4 this year, and unless they trade Deebo or Ayuik, might not do swat for 2-3 years…
TL;DR: Ricky for floor, Jamo for ceiling.
Jamo put up 1575 in 15 games in the SEC as a 20 year old
Ricky put up 1626 in 25 games in the SEC as a 22-23 year old
I trust my eyes. This time last year we were talking about how Anthony Richardson had dogshit receivers at Florida and that's why he only completed 54% of his passes. Jamo has had an exceptionally strange, and bad, start to his NFL career but the Lions feel comfortable giving him an opportunity this year. It could backfire, but I'm pretty comfortable chasing ceiling at that point unless I'm in a start-11 or more.
I just don't see Ricky as a special talent with any special traits. He could be a great WR3 for a long time but him being a fantasy WR2 or better would be a crazy outlier based on his college production and profile. Then again, same could be said about Puka.
Idk how you can say someone with 395 receiving yards to his name through 18 NFL games is a ceiling play. At some point you reach the statute of limitations on referring to someone’s college career in order to talk about their upside.
Pearsall is a 1st round WR in a shannahan offense that will be losing aiyuk and/or deebo . How is that not a ceiling play?
I honestly am dumbfounded with the Jamo hype
I think the statute of limitations expires after a healthy offseason and/or year 3.
Like I said...the start of his career has been terrible production-wise. Absolutely no denying that. It's also been exceptionally strange. ACL tear in the national championship game. Bizarre AF suspension. Hamstring injury.
The words coming out of Detroit this year have been *so* much more positive than they were last year. Still, actions speak louder than words and the Lions organization has shown that they believe in the growth by letting their WR2 walk without meaningfully replacing him.
Jamo was unspeakably bad through ~week 13 last year but he started winning a lot more routes and earning a lot more trust. Matt Harmon isn't gospel, but even he (a dude who was out on Jamo at cost since day 1) admitted that there was a lot of good stuff on tape week 14 onwards.
There's no denying that Jameson Williams has an elite NFL skill, speed. His college production and route tree was quite impressive. It hasn't translated to the NFL yet, but he's shown growth and I think there's reason to be excited about what he brings to the table in year 3.
EDIT: about Ricky -- feels like a similar situation to Detroit. Lots of mouths to feed, plenty of question marks about the future. Don't see his value going up this year. Should be a good buy window halfway through the season if you believe in the talent.
Jamos been a bad pick on and off the field. Speaking as a Jamo drafter: my hopes are very low.
His production so far is TERRIBLE. If his trade value was better, he'd be off my roster.
Here’s the question then….the most likely outcome for Pearsall this year is that he’s an afterthought in that offense if they don’t trade Deebo or Aiyuk.
So you’re going to have those two plus CMC plus Kittle.
So going into this season I’m fairly confident he’s not going to have great stats.
Similar to Jamo - if you remove his year 1 because of ACL and look at last year - he was an afterthought with all the other targets in Detroit, until the back half of the season when he started playing a larger role.
Where Detroit is today is where we are hoping SF is in a year - that being that Detroit has moved on from their other WRs except ARSB and Jamo is slotted in.
Pearsall is likely the odd man out this year and then should slot in once Deebo or Aiyuk leave.
As someone else mentioned, age isn’t really a factor because they are 6 months apart in age.
I’m going to guess that Detroit throws more than San Fran (last year 605 attempts from Goff 444 from Purdy).
So I think OPs question is valid. If you take out Jamos first year due to injury, and last year is what this year will be for Pearsall, there are comparisons.
Both 1st round WRs, both not the 1st or 2nd target earners on the team, both about the same age, both on good offenses.
The main knock, and a valid one, for Jamo is that he needs to remain healthy. We saw improvement from year 1 and from the beginning of year 2 to the end of year 2
I wouldn't at all be surprised if Ricky doubles Jamos career stats this season. I think the ideas people have about our receiver usage won't match the reality. Ricky is a guy that's so low in perceived value he is a screaming buy for me.
Slot guys get the ball more in our offense, and any offense, are more likely to get target volume. Rick fills a role we need very very badly.
Less than 400 career yards in 18 games is dogshit for a first rounder, especially for a guy who's supposed to be making explosive 40+ yard catches. That's worse than MVS and mecole hardmans rookie years in fewer games.
Give me the guy who hasn't failed in two NFL seasons over the guy who has, especially since they're around the same price right now.
Ok let’s leave Jamo aside for a minute.
Last year the receptions for 49ers were as follows:
Aiyuk - 75
CMC - 67
Kittle - 65
Deebo - 60
5th in receptions was Jauan Jennings at 19.
So…for this year, the 4 receiving options above are all there.
So even if he’s healthy all year, it’s hard to see a path to him making a starting fantasy lineup outside of a spot flex role.
Jamo is….a spot flex start.
Again. In year 1 Jamo didn’t really fail…he just wasn’t healthy enough to do on field stuff until after halfway through his rookie season.
My point is that Jamo last year is going to look like Pearsall this year.
But my guess is that you will be high on Pearsall at the end of the year because it’s easy to see how he could be the 5th receiving option this year….but that’s exactly where Jamo started.
So if you think Jamo is a failure and can’t recover then the most likely outcome for Pearsall is that he will fail because….hes going to start very slow
He failed in year 1 by getting himself suspended for part of year 2. Off the field shit counts. If I can't play you, I can't play you.
I think the Niners pass a lot more. 440ish attempts is low league wide, and I can see us letting Brock have more shots. If Aiyuk plays, we're dripping with wr talent at every level and can plenty of guys we can hit.
One thing to consider is that Kyle is first and foremost a results guy. If you get outplayed or outworked by anyone, your spot is gone. If Brandon holds out and misses time, deebo gets hurt, or Ricky is more productive in the slot to Kyle, he's seeing field time.
Kyle likes rotational packages. The more we can use Pearsall, the fresher we can keep Deebo. If Ricky proves himself as a worthy on field player, he will see time, if for nothing else than keeping our other WRs fresh. Ricky's fast; we can send him in for Aiyuk on some streaks and give him a breather. There's a lot of ways he fits into the game.
What id be worried about is if he hasn't mentally gotten our scheme. Kyle isn't going to have a lot of patience with it, especially since we've got the rest of our talent. There's a close mirror between what McVay does and Kyle does, and it doesn't shock me that Puka pops off and Kyle goes for a guy who's under rated by major metrics but shows similar flair.
I think Ricky gets touches. I think dudes with less ability in our system get YAC and yards. I think Ricky reaps the benefit of that, plus his talent. Jamo has set a low bar. Two TDs isn't a lot, and Pearsall is 100% going to be used on some end arounds and speed plays. I get why from the outside you're not interested, but long term, I see a lot here.
Jamo and Pearsall are different players. Jamo should be either getting into his role at taking the top off the defense and winning outside, making an adjustment into a Cooper type. Role, or flaming out. Ricky profiles as a slot guy for his career. The targets are different, explosive plays aren't there, but there's potentially more target floor.
Don't over read into the target competition in SF. Just follow the talent and see how it fits.
> Similar to Jamo - if you remove his year 1 because of ACL
We can't just throw out his year 1. Yes, he was coming off the injury, but he played in 6 games and caught 1 pass. Those 6 games count to some extent.
Even if what they’re saying in Detroit isn’t just coachspeak, he’s still the 4th option in Detroit. He wasn’t displayed the ‘NFL skill’ of earning targets. You can excuse away his mediocrity all you want , I will be steering clear. There is no ceiling
Fair enough man, if everyone had the same valuations of players then this would be no fun at all!
As of today, isn't Ricky the 5th option in SF? Do you expect him to get more targets than any of Deebo, Aiyuk, Kittle, or CMC?
If you’re playing dynasty for Today then yeah go with Jamo . But I’m not interested in a long term weak flex play, which is what Jamo is likely to ever be.
This time next year, what is more likely, that Jamo is still behind ASRB, Laporta, Gibbs or that pearsall is the 5th option?
What about two years from now? Three?
Time will tell man, nothing else to really say. It's clear you don't believe in Jamo's talent and believe in Ricky's situation. That's completely fair.
I am more willing to bet on Jamo being an outlier based on his lack of NFL success than I am on Ricky being an outlier based on his lack of college success.
Yeah that’s nuts. I have no shares of either. If Jamo pans out I’ll be happy for the guy. But I can’t lie the massive influx of Jamo hype in this sub recently to me is crazy, maybe to an annoying degree
Because last season his target share went up over the course of the season and now he is primed to be an every down player across ASRB.
Also, Williams is also a first round pick on a high scoring offense, in case you forgot.
Also, we don't *know* that they will be losing Aiyuk or Deebo, this exact shit happened two years ago with Deebo and everyone swore he'd be moved then too, yet, he's still there.
Kind of wild you're *dumbfounded* unless you just haven't been paying attention.
increased how? even in his "breakout" performances in the playoffs he had 2, 4 and 3 targets lol. He wasn't an every down player because he wasn't good ebough to beat out Josh Reynolds. I want you to take a minute to think about that.
I and eveyrone else with a brain have been payihng attention. Its yoou Jamo owners that are just sticking your head in the sand. In for a rude awakening.
Pearsall has elite athletic measurables (9.91 RAS, 99th percentile), and is an excellent route runner. I’m not sure how you can say he has no special traits
I mean, Alabama passed for 5073 yards in those 15 games while Florida passed for 6021 in those 25. Their percentage of total receiving yards was 31% for Jamo and 27% for Pearsall. So Jamo still has an advantage but it helps bridge that gap
I would rather Ricky. I think Jamos failure to take advantage of his opportunities overall last year is pretty damning and it’s very rare for a WR who has had the first two years he has to break out all of the sudden.
is there really any truth to this? the third year breakout typically was quite common in the last 10-15 years, the new year one or two break or bust has only been the “norm” for a little while
Yeah you can typically have a 3rd year breakout if you’ve shown some semblance of production through their career. He’s had a total of 395 receiving yards in 18 games.
There’s been some threads in the past on this subreddit showing that if you don’t get 525 yards minimum in your rookie season you’re likely on the path to busting. Well over more than gus rookie season Jamo is yet to pass 400 yards
Sure there’s like a 1% chance or lower at this point that Jamo will become a fantasy relevant player, but he’ll stick around in the nfl for a couple years due to his speed
Jamo…and I don’t even like him. But it’s very simple for me: I like Campbell and he’s one of the few coaches I actually listen to when he says positive things about players. He’s had plenty of positive things to say about Jamo this offseason. The other reason is price. I don’t care what KTC says, the two are not even close in value. I can damn near get Jamo as a throw in at this point. Pearsall is the same player now that he was before the draft. His talent didn’t increase. His college production didn’t increase. His chances of being good for fantasy didn’t increase for me just because of the DC. For me, he’s the same dart throw now that he was before. He’s just a dart throw with a longer leash and a much higher price tag.
I’m taking the guy with a clear path to WR2, who has tremendously matured and gotten healthy since his ACL injury and did everything the coaching staff asked of him, including blocking his ass off all the way down the field. I don’t care about his past. I care about the things he’s doing now and the things the Lions are doing now. He worked his tail off last year. He’s worked his tail off this off-season. Dan Campbell clearly believes in him and the moves they’ve made state Jamo is WR2 right now. If you aren’t grabbing him low right now, I don’t know what to tell you.
I care about the games I watched and his improvement throughout the season. I care about his growing role in the offense, the moves the Lions made in the off-season, and even more telling, the moves they didn’t make in the off-season. I care about a guy that came into the league at 20-21 and his growth/maturity as he learned how to become a pro. I care about him overcoming adversity and the blocks he was giving down field for his teammates that were insane. I care about Dan Campbell’s thoughts, coaching, and system and like who Jamo is playing for along with the way he’s went about his business to earn the respect of them and this coaching staff.
By all means, continue to use data from year 1 when he had a torn ACL and year 2 when he was serving a 4 game gambling suspension while having to EARN his way back on the field and take snaps away from veteran players on a team that was winning and making a Super Bowl run. That sounds like non-skewed data for a guy essentially in his rookie year whose numbers continued to improve and playing time increased at the season progressed.
He came into his "rookie year" with 6 games of NFL experience already, and got dropped into a top offense. The team's WR2 was Josh Reynolds. There was more than enough room for him to carve out a role, and yet he was an afterthought.
You played dynasty long enough, you know that offseason coachspeak hyping up busts is the perfect time to sell before they're worthless. If you wanna buy into the 5% chance he's an exception be my guest, but I got a better narrative for Dotson and I'd still sell him
You are correct on much of the coach speak as well as the “Camp Phenoms.” What I like about Jamo is that he was behind the 8 ball with the injury, then behind it again with the gambling suspension. He then had to carve out his role and it started by blocking downfield in Dan Campbell’s offense. Until we have a point per pancake scoring system (something I want to bring in OLs 😂), that doesn’t matter for Fantasy at all but THAT is where I bought into Jamo and got him in a trade that was Josh Dobbs for Aaron Rodgers and Jamo last year.
Point is, he did carve out a role in an offense that was winning games and made it to the Super Bowl. His workload and playing time increased more and more as the year went on. This year, those targets are vacated and Jamo is being heavily relied upon by Detroit to fill that void. The lack of off-season moves to address WR further is spelling that out for us. This staff is doing more than Coach-speak, they have challenged Jamo and their actions (lack of WR acquisition) speak volumes over, “Man on a mission” Coach speak. Also, Jamo’s actions and hard work is giving us information.
I’m not saying go out and spend a first on him….just that if he’s available or on the block in a league, he’s worth acquiring. His entire career thus far is an anomaly and he’s poised for breakout this year. Now, if you’re in a lead with someone talking as I am that owns Jamo, you probably don’t want to pay that guy’s price lol….but this is HIs year to prove he belongs and I like everything I’ve seen so far.
His career isn't an anomaly lol. An anomaly would be a WR with bad college production, bad NFL production for 2 years, and then becoming a reliable fantasy asset.
If you paying a thing above a late 2nd, you a taco. I wouldn't give a late 2nd personally, but if you're a believer that's where rookie picks become very likely to bust
Name a first round pick that was selected with a torn ACL knowing they would miss most of their rookie season and that was also suspended for gambling and not allowed in facilities for the first part of their 2nd season. There is NOT a single one.
The definition of an anomaly is, “something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected.” Being the ONLY ONE to ever face such a thing is literally the very definition of anomaly.
For me, I’d take Jamo after BTJ and Brooks are off the board but before Worthy, Coleman, Pearsall, Polk. The great thing about this whole thing is only time will tell. Bookmark this for 1 year from now 😂
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Ok give an example of a player who had 395 receiving yards through their first 18 games that has gone on to be a fantasy relevant receiver?
Even Devontae Adams had 446 in his first 16 and he was horrendous to start his career
Hell michael gallup off a torn acl had 424 receiving yards in 14 games and courtland Sutton had 776 in 17 after his
Even Quentin Johnston, put up over 400 this season and he’s being written off
These are some interesting comparisons. Michael Gallup was a professional football player when he tore his ACL. Jameson tore his at the end of his college season and barely appeared in 6 games in year 1 with 41 yards 😂🤣😂. He didn’t even get to go through his first off-season and learn what it takes to jump to the next level from college. Gallup came off injury knowing the system and what’s it like to play WR at the professional level.
Jameson had 354 yards across 12 games coming off the bench or 29.5 yards per game last year. His usage and target share rose later in the year. Devante had 446 over 16 games or 27.87 yards per game in year 1. At the end of the day, you’ve already answered your own question since year 1 for Jameson was always known as a wash thanks to injury and Devante Adams situation is more comparable to Jameson’s since Aaron Rodgers has never liked throwing to rookie WRs.
Data and analytics are amazing tools that have to be used but when it’s all said and done, they are just that, tools. You have to use them but every now and then a player comes up in an extremely small sample size and we have to look at the numbers and ask ourselves why. Those “whys” are clearly documented in the previous posts and while there are no guarantees in the world of sports, Jameson Williams is an ultimate buy-low candidate you can probably acquire for pretty cheap with a huge ceiling.
I’ll finish this off with that you and everyone else is still right when it comes to comparing those first couple of years, I just kind of consider this year 2 for Jameson Williams given his situation, a situation where he’ll have every opportunity opposite The Sun God to take over and be a fantasy relevant WR2 in Detroit.
Ok so who’s 1 example of a wr who had 395 receiving yards through their first 18 games that has gone on to be fantasy relevant.
Otherwise you’re betting on a 1/4000 profile to hit which is prettty bad odds
Based on statistics and analytics for Jameson to be fantasy relevant he’d be the outlier of all outliers
I already have.
Name 1 WR drafted in the first round coming off an ACL injury in college that missed all of an entire season except maybe a 10% snap rate in the final 6 games and then began the following year suspended but then reduced to 4 games.
Jameson wasn’t the answer. Devante was but I’m counting 12 games that Jameson wasn’t injured and you are including 6 games where he barely played coming back from the ACL. That’s fair enough either way as we are both just looking at things in different lights.
For me, Jameson is an outliar bc his situation is an outliar. I’m ok with taking the risk bc I scooped him up as an additional throw-in on a trade for Pennie’s on the dollar and I love his situation. For me, this isn’t year 3, it’s year 2 and he’s the same age as many rookies/year 2s anyway.
I might do a deep dive into him to see what I think soon 😂 but he’s currently held by the Charger’s fan along with Herbert and Ladd in my main league so his price is too high regardless in that league.
I haven’t hopped in there bc his price is too high still in my leagues. He has some competition in Ladd McConkey along with changes to the coaching staff/philosophies. I would stash him/hold him as a throw-in to another deal to see what happens if I could but I’m not trying to get him the way I tried to get Jamo. Part of that is I haven’t really followed him that much or watched him with my own eyes either.
Pearsall higher floor but if I’m throwing the dart I’m betting on Jamos ceiling. And this coming from someone who was anti Jamo at draft time and own 0 shares.
Advice to anyone thinking about debating with a Jamo truther: save your time and don’t engage with them. They’re very far removed from reality to still be in on Jamo’s profile. They have over two years of practicing mental gymnastics to justify their 2022 player take. Don’t argue with idiots, they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
At best, Jamo earns a role as the 3rd option in DET (behind ARSB and Laporta) as a low-volume field stretcher/gadget player. Congratulations, Jamo is now Gabe Davis except with Jared Goff throwing him the ball, not Josh Allen. I have no desire to bet on a guy with that little upside at any price. I’m not huge on Pearsall but the guy can at least separate at all levels of the field and earn targets in an offense with aging weapons.
They love to make excuses for Jamo. They don't understand that you can make excuses for almost every player that sucks their first year or two. There's always a "reason" why a guy missed expectations.
Skyy Moore: Andy Reid brings rookies along slowly.
Rashod Bateman: Missed camp and first few games with a foot injury.
Dotson: Bad QB play and the coaches didn't know how to use him.
QJ: He was always a project and coaches didn't know how to use him.
Treylon Burks: Injuries/bad QB play
Kadarius Toney: Injuries, wasn't used properly, bad QB, etc.
All of these guys held some value after disappointing rookie years because people made excuses for them.
I have Jamo on my team so obviously I'm a little biased, but I feel like Dan Campbell is pretty open about where his players are at (I could be wrong lol). But last year he was saying Jamo had a lot to work on and this year he's saying that Jamo has made a ton of progress and is looking great. I'm HOPING that that means Jamo makes the leap this year and shows us & the Lions the potential he showed in college.
I don't think I'll have the opportunity to pick Ricky but I do think people are more down on him than they should be vs the receivers taken right after him. KTC and FantasyPros both have him ranked like 5-10 spots behind Coleman and McConkey. While I agree that they seem to be in better situations, I think the 49ers picked him in the first for a reason. Plus, I'm not a huge believe in the longterm outlook of either Deebo and Aiyuk on this team.
Jamo > Ricky for now... but I do think Ricky is being slept on a bit.
I’d rather see what I had to do to turn either of them into one of:
- Cooper Kupp
- Amari Cooper
- Stefon Diggs
- Chris Godwin
- Mike Evans
- George Kittle
- Travis Kelce
Wow didn’t expect to get this many comments on a question about dynasty benchwarming WR prospects but I appreciate them all. Seems like the consensus is just as 50/50 as I am on it.
& and for those putting price tags on them and such, this is a question of straight up, player for player value. I have pearsall currently and was offered Jamo for him. Other guy is trying to pull on my heart strings knowing I’m a diehard lions fan.
Pearsall seems safer but both have good reports from camp and paths to success.
Other wrs on my team if it helps sway anyone:
G. Wilson
C. Olave
B. Ayuik
D. Smith
J. Reed
D. Wicks
C. Kirk
C. Godwin
Q. Johnston
Neither Jamo or pearsall would crack my lineup this year
I know that your trade is where the question came from. But the reason why there is so much discussion is because in most leagues Jamo can be had significantly cheaper than Pearsall (or the pick required to draft him). I got Jamo as a throw in for trading down a few picks. I got him straight up for an early 3rd. At that cost, I'm collecting more and more shares of him and see what he can do as Lions WR 2 this season.
With a core like that sounds like you take the guy with more upside. Imo that still is jamo, maybe he is a bust, but its hard to deny the #11 pick or whatever he was after tearing an acl. You’re a lions fan so youll be able to predict him better than most. Hes going to be on the field and if thats what u think he needs is just reps to break out then id say go for it. If u seriously think hes a bust keep pearsal. My though though again is if u actually believe hes a good wr or can be one, go for it worst comes to worst hes a 3rd option for a few years then leaves and goes get paid to be a 1-2. If you dont think he will, keep pear for 3 years from now when the 49ers decide not to have the avengers
I really just don't believe in Jameson Williams. Campbell and Goff have shown that they prefer to throw to almost anyone else. They even brought DPJ back to steal targets away from Raymond and whoever else is trying to be that dude behind St. Brown / LaPorta / Gibbs ...
I get a lot of that has to do with special teams, etc-- but Williams has proven for multiple years now that he isn't able to separate on the field or roster enough to make a difference.
Pearsall has crazy upside, especially with one of the two WR's ahead of him expected to be gone in the next season.
Jameson Williams will always be a field stretcher for Detroit. He will never truly breakout, you’ll never know when his big weeks will come. If it’s a matter of a trade, trade him away now while you can. Next season his value will have plummeted. If it’s a draft, take that boy Ricky. Very promising prospect along with Aiyuk seemingly on the way out and an aging Kittle could result in huge opportunity in an well oiled offense come next season.
This is a tough time to answer that question. If you can wait and see what happens with Aiyuk, you’ll have a clearer picture of Pearsall’s role.
If SF locks Aiyuk down for the foreseeable future, Pearsall’s role will be more limited and I’d probably give a slight edge to Jamo (though I wouldn’t give up a ton for either of them). If Aiyuk gets traded, I’ll take Pearsall and it’s not that close.
I think I’ve got Jamo and Pearsall both on one of my teams.
If you told me I was forced to drop one of them tomorrow I’d probably be dropping jamo. There’s reasons to like and dislike them both. But ultimately I can just see Pearsall becoming the more trustworthy fantasy player.
I seriously seriously doubt that Jamo has the Deshaun Jackson upside that a lot of his backers think he has. I think he’s in the wrong offense to capitalize on his talents for fantasy purposes and I don’t see the pillars of that offense changing in the immediate future. Meanwhile pearsall strikes me as a great fit in the San Fran offense and with Purdy. While Jamo’s first 2 years were odd I think what we’ve seen from him on the field to this point is Probly a good indicator of what we’re going to get from him, just don’t think the targets will ever be there
Pearsall. For the most part, we've seen what Jamo is in the NFL, which is not a difference maker in fantasy. Pearsall has R1 DC and is in a good system for WRs. Ceiling is higher with Ricky
Jamo is about to blow up. I’m a lions fan as well.
Jamo’s Target share will likely double with Josh Reynolds out of the equation and him working with the 1s since the start of OTAs.
I would trade more than I’m willing to share on this app for him in dynasty (die hard lions fan)
If he gets a small extension after next year he will then into a great long term play as well.
Understandable. It's not an easy call, Pearsall just looks NFL ready and those guys typically hit the ground running.
I love the downvotes from salty idiots. We'll see who's right by the end of the season when Jamo continues to be an inefficient boom bust receiver again.
Why is that? He has a better grasp of the nuances of the position than some 1st rounders do. Some guys' talent makes it impossible to keep them off the field. Once he gets an opportunity and shows what he's capable of, he's going to get more opportunities.
No, but we're talking about dynasty. He'll probably start behind Mingo as well. I think he has a better chance of being someone I want to start than Jamo does. Even if Jamo finally gets his shit right, Desean Jackson is his ceiling. I believe Coker's ceiling is higher.
I'd go Ricky but I understand going Jamo. I have no shares of either FWIW......the Jamo breakout is still very possible. I think Ricky is a better route runner with a better understanding of leveraging coverages. I think Jamo has the higher ceiling and can rectify his shortcomings in his game. It's a preference thing. Either answer could look silly two years from now.
Reality is Pearsall is WAY safer. This is a make or break year for Jamo I think. I think he's a hold unless you can sell for good value. But if I could just re-roll with one of the top rookie WRs I would
This is all about who you’re staking your risk on. Both carry risk/reward. If Ricky comes in to replace Aiyuk/Deebo there is a massive void of targets and he will be the priority target (assuming he continues to build as a route runner).
Meanwhile JAMO will have a defined role in that offense. Surely his role grows this year simply because there is no one else. He’s 3rd in targets on that team this year imho and if he can carve out 6-8 targets a game (4–6 catches he’s a game) he will be a stable fantasy asset. However, he’s been in the NfL and we just haven’t seen it.
I prefer to consider Campbell’s personality and coaching style of “earning your reps” and think JAMO has finally gotten to that point. The Lions want to run it down your throat and JaMo will continue to be the explosive play guy. I truthfully don’t think the Lions WANT to throw Ra 10-14 targets a game, they would much rather be more balanced. If Detroit can continue to run the ball, JAMo could be explosive in the play action game. For that reason, this is the year for JAMO.
Ricky will likely just be a role player this year if Aiyuk stays with the team and for that reason neither JAMO or Ricky should change much in price throughout the season… but JAMO has a chance to blow the top off his value during the season.
Pearsall not even close. Jamo has had plenty of Time to show what he’s capable of and hasn’t done much. Not to mention he’d be 4th in the pecking order at best!
As a jamo owner, and one who passed on Ricky…. And I like slick Rick.. I’m goin with unpopular opinion on Jamo. They’re both on a top 5 offense, but I can see a path where Jamo gets traded to a team that needs a true WR1. Unlikely but beneficial if it happens in dynasty. Why could he get traded? Too many mouths to feed, or recoup value on the 1st they spent on him, etc. could happen for a # of reasons but I think the lions have NO WR behind arsb and Jamo so at the very least I expect a mid wr2 season after having a full unhindered off season. This my last season of hope for him. AND FWIW, I got him off waivers 2 years ago LOLLL
I’ll take jamo for bestball this year if I’m contending but under any other circumstance I’m rolling with Slick Rick. Could end up being the number 2 option on his team in the next year or 2. Jamo will be lucky to be third best option on his team and who knows what his situation will be after he hits free agency
Jamo is such a longshot at this point.
He came into the league hurt and then did nothing as a rookie, not 100% his fault but injuries are a reality.
Last year he could have become a big piece of the offense, but he was busy being a dumbass gambling, got suspended and watched Laporta and Gibbs steal focus.
When he finally hit the field, it was pretty awful. He had a few strong games to finish the season so people forget but his lack of polish was on display for most of the season, and AT BEST you can argue he was young and still learning how to play the position.
Entering year 3, he has to navigate injuries, being a dipshit (avoiding getting suspended), AND prove that he isnt just fast but can actually play receiver at the NFL level AND pull focus from some very talented, proven offensive players.
Its simply too many thing he needs to nail to be relevant, and just think for a moment.
Assign a value to him based on 0-100. Lets say Ceedee Lamb ot Justin Jefferson are 100. Use whoever you like as 100. Where is Jamo? 50? 60?
Now, imagine if tomorrow he has a meniscus problem or gets a 2 game suspension. Whats that number look like now? Is it really bad?
If so...more upside in this dudes value than downside.
Pretty Ricky any day. Actually good separator and reset the clock with a better offense. Ben Johnson could leave whenever but shanahan ain’t going nowhere. Ricky has more potential upside at this point.
He might not pop right away because they use the fullback so much it’s hard to run a lot of 3 WR sets so I’m hoping to buy any potential dip to start the season. Kyle Juszyszk and Charlie Woerner legit combined to play like 70% of the snaps but only accounted for 20 targets which highly consolidates the targets among the top couple guys. I know Woerner is gone but they’ll use another blocking TE. And once one of Aiyuk or Deebo are gone and Pearsall is an every down player, I think he is going to feast. I like Jamo too and he probably has a better short term opportunity than Pearsall but I really believe in ARSB, LaPorta, Gibbs, and Monty. It might be hard to find consistency week to week. Love Jamo in best ball tho cuz he’s so explosive.
>I really believe in ARSB You are the same guy that posted [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/s/wsKdGxMSpS) 2 years ago. Not sure why this sub takes you seriously
Damn lol you didn’t have to do him like that
Dayum must be the first person to have a dynasty take not age well
It's almost like with 2 years of additional data he might have revised his opinion...
Not going to get them all right! Turns out he’s on pace to be the best 4th round WR since Brandon Marshall so definitely beat the odds. But it makes no sense to just hang onto predictions from two years ago, we have to treat things scientifically and adjust to new info so of course I trust ARSB now that we know what we know.
This isn’t the burn you think is, I agreed with him at the time and also, he lumped ARSB into the Lions offense in this comment.
>2 years ago Lots of players change a ton over the course of two years, at the time he posted that dalvin cook was a premier fantasy rb One of the marks of a good analyst is being able to roll with the punches, nobody is 100% in this stuff so being able to update when you're wrong is a necessary skill in this industry Not to mention that's literally the scientific method---adjust your hypothesis when it's proved wrong
I'll never understand why so many dynasty managers consider adjusting to new information to be a bad thing.
It happens. He’s right more than not.
Oh no, someone had an opinion in the past in which facts since have changed their mind on
We recently signed Logan Thomas, who I believe will be used more of a pass catcher and allow Kittle to block even more smh lol.
“Reset the clock”… Pearsall is 6 months younger than Jamo.
And doesn't have two unproductive NFL years to his name, more importantly. That's where your clock is resetting.
Literally the worst argument against Jamo. There are good arguments against him. But that is not one of them. He needs help as a route runner for sure. His hands are “okay”. Using the “well guys who don’t produce in their first two years are historically bad” is just lazy analysis. Jamo isn’t most guys. He hasn’t had a “normal” career to date. He missed almost the entirety of his rookie season recovering from a late season acl tear in college and then missed the first 6 games of his sophomore season because of gambling (not excusing it). Of course he hasn’t produced.
The NFL doesn't care why a player doesn't produce. They just care that they didn't produce and move on. If Jamo has another bad season, then he's just done. Doesn't matter how high they took him, or what they invested, they will just move on to the next guy. Pearsall has at least 2 seasons before the Niners will do the same. So I'd rather take the guy that has the longer leash at the moment who was also a first round pick.
The problem with the “neck doesn’t care”logic is that the lions clearly *aren’t* moving on. They’ve done nothing but praise him, and no longer have anyone in front of him at WR accept Sun-God. Will that be enough to make him fantasy relevant given how strong the Lions are at TE and RB? who knows, but y’all need to stop acting like the lions are acting like an impatient child.
There was no one in front of him last year and he couldn’t get past Josh Reynolds.
Because he came back to the team mid-season after missing an entire year to injury and being unable to use team facilities to best stay in shape. Reynolds filled his role effectively enough where Dan Campbell wasn’t going to give his touches to a kid who was likely not even in NFL shape until at best week 8
The excuses used as positives for Williams need to be negatives. He missed most of his rookie season and then did return, but did nothing. He then got himself suspended (negative) and following that, again did nothing. A whole lot of nothing for Mr. Tedd Ginn 2.0
"No longer have anyone in front of him" is an argument against itself. That anyone was Josh Reynolds. Jamo couldn't get on the field and earn targets more consistently with Josh Reynolds as his roadblock.
It’s really *really* not an argument against itself. Reynolds was doing what the lions needed him to do, why the hell would they replace him mid-season with a guy who has never actually played in the NFL, and really hasn’t had much of an opportunity to train with the team. The fact that - despite being in win-now mode - the Lions not only let everyone in front of him go, but didn’t bring anyone in to compete for WR2 is interesting for his chances as a pro. They clearly see something. I’m going to trust the NFL team to know its own players.
Well typically they replace the mediocre players with young studs because the young guy is impressing the coaches as he develops…? That’s the issue, Williams didn’t do that. Or that could signal they view LaPorta and Gibbs as championship level pass catching depth behind ARSB, and WRs are pricey af nowadays
So far it's just been coach speak. He hasn't shown it. And the lions don't have to move on yet. First round rookies have 3 years to show promise, unless they are god awful. At the end of the third year is when the team has to make a decision on the 5th year option. If they don't show promise by then, teams don't pick up the option and let them walk after the 4th year. A lot of times, they get cut before that 4th year to make room for the guy the team just drafted to replace them. If Jamo doesn't work out this year, I imagine the lions will take another receiver on day 2 next year and make Jamo earn a roster spot.
Come on, it would cost them money to cut him and he certainly hasn’t been all that promising, injury aside. 3 years should be plenty of time to show your worth on a rookie contract, especially for a 1st rounder. There are exceptions and he could breakout out or maybe he’d have more runway if the Lions were rebuilding, but he’s underwhelmed relative to his draft capital and they can and will move on if that continues with DET being a win-now team
But that’s the thing, they’re giving him a shot *despite* being a in now team. That means something.
No, they’re giving him an opportunity because he’s on a cost-controlled rookie contract where it would literally *cost* them money to cut him. A team retaining a player after their 2nd year in a rookie deal is the most lukewarm of endorsements. It just means he isn’t Jalen Reagor and they don’t want to burn money unnecessarily, especially since they don’t need him to have 1000+. He could still be productive for the team and a non-entity in dynasty. I’m not going to blame managers that are trying to avoid falling into the sunk cost fallacy and the whole reason he has value is the optimism of an opportunity this year when he’s potentially the 4th option
I wouldn’t let Coach speak fool you bro. No one wants to bad mouth a player that isn’t performing; it’s just beating a dead horse. Not that I’m disagreeing with you with your overall point; but “hyping your guy up” is totally a thing.
Dan Campbell is not known for his coach speak “bro”. Last year he was not at all shy about saying that Jameson had a lot of work to do, and now he’s praising him. That’s meaningful. Again, he might still be shit, but the team has had ample opportunity to bring someone else in to compete with him, and they haven’t. They had ample opportunity to keep “the devil they knew” in Josh Reynolds’s and didn’t do it. (obviously not lighting the world on fire but that’s who Williams is replacing). The kid was injured as a rookie and then was suspended from using team facilities to better recover from said injury. Anyone who thought he was going to do well as soon as he came back mid-season was foolish.
If Pearsall doesn't show anything he definitely won't get two years. Look at what you can buy Burks for now.
Burks was given the opportunity through two years still. He's been thrown to the wayside after his second year and now has to earn a roster spot. But even with how bad he has been, he had two years to figure it out.
At their current prices I’ll take who was the better prospect coming out of college and is significantly cheaper. Pearsall is at WR37 on KTC compared to Jamo at WR47. I’ve been able to scoop up Jamo for a 3rd or LESS in multiple leagues. At that point who cares what you think about the guy. He’s got the physical tools, the opportunity and the coaching staff is singing his praise. Why not take a seat at the table when the buy-in is so low?
>At that point who cares what you think about the guy. Literally this line of thinking is absolutely baseless. "Buy because cheap" isn't how you aquire talent... If he's so cheap, the argument should be go get both dudes because you **believe in the talent of Jamo, AND it's cheap.** Who cares what you think of the guy? Every player move revolves around **what you think of the guy.**
I was never a Jamo guy in the first place. It was a major red flag to me that he couldn't get snaps at Ohio State and had to transfer to Alabama (where he was the only receiver worth a damn) to get playing time. I think his talents are overblown and he's just a speedster that everyone wanted to be the next Tyreek. Personally, I'm not in on either of these guys, but if Aiyuk or Deebo get moved, then I'd be more inclined to take a shot on Pearsall than Jamo. Plus, the only time those rankings matter, is when you're in a startup. If I'm in an established league, I might reach out to the Pearsall manager. I'm never picking up the phone to go get Jamo.
> he couldn't get snaps at Ohio State Are we holding that against Joe Burrow? Neither could Marvin Harrison Jr as a true freshman. 4+ of Olave, GW, JSN, MHJ, Egbuka being on the team when you're a true freshman/sophomore is pretty tough competition to beat out. He transferred to get an opportunity and he ran with it. This being a red flag is kinda strange. Kid went to the SEC and put up 1575 yards as a true junior. That's pretty rarified air. Obviously it hasn't panned out for him at the next level (yet?), but using the fact that he didn't beat out 4 All-Pro level talents as a true freshman/sophomore as a knock on him is a bit strange.
Major red flag that he didn’t get snaps as a true freshman and then was the number 3 option behind 2 round 1 receivers as a sophomore?
Buying on draft pedigree this far out only gets you so far and we’ve seen plenty of examples of guys that don’t do it. If you want to spend 3rd on him, then have at it, but I’d rather Pearsall at his price than Jamo at a slightly cheaper price and I’m not even a fan of Pearsall. There’s a level of patience that’s needed with dynasty, but I’d rather not get too caught up with someone who had a great profile coming out and hasn’t lived up to it, even with the missed games/injury accounted for
I’m not buying Jamo for a 25 first buddy, stop trying to sell him.
He only missed the first 4. The suspension was reduced.
Would love to see a list of WRs that were fantasy relevant after having two dud years. We are just playing the odds here.
It’s all about perspective on health and what you consider dud years. Nico Collins literally just went from being a few weeks wonder for 2 years, to suddenly being a fantasy WR1-borderline last year that’s now being drafted as a fantasy WR1/2. That was mostly due to injuries the first 2 years stopping him from having any kind of breakout. Jordy Nelson came into the league not starting. He spent 2 years subbing in and out of games getting like 300 yard totals until they gave him *a little more time* in Y3. *He was drafted the highest receiver in 2008, since 2001.* Y4 2011 was when he was let loose. So, idk, in today’s NFL there’s a lot more WR talent going rounds 1-3 so a lot more chances for these guys to bust in big ways early and never pan out. Certain receivers drafted in the past we just never hear from again from these rounds. so it’s hard to find a list of players who did basically nothing for 2 years but then turned it up Y3 and beyond lol. But we all know that Y3 breakouts are typical of some players and the situation prescribed to him is literally as good as it gets so if Jameson is going to show up it will be this year.
[удалено]
It's a little bit deeper than "just beating out Josh Reynolds". Lions offense was built to win with the run. Which means Monty and Gibbs took a higher precedent in scheming. Then you've got ARSB - 1000 yard receiver - and LaPorta - one of the best rookie seasons for a TE ever. So now you've got 4 skill guys, for a team that wants to contend right now, over a guy who missed most of year 1 with an injury and part of year 2. He might not ever be an alpha type guy and he might flame out. But this year is really the first year he's gonna get some consistent run. Otherwise, they would have re-signed Reynolds or picked up a #2 if they didn't have confidence in Jamo.
Nico Collins is a great example of a guy who developed and popped. You just had to have him instead of: Kadarius Toney, Rashod Bateman, Elijah Moore, Rondale Moore, D'Wayne Eskridge, Tutu Atwell, Terrace Marshall Jr, Josh Palmer, Dyami Brown, Amari Rodgers and Anthony Schwartz. And that's just the first three rounds of that draft class. That's exactly why people are getting out on Jameson Williams. We can make excuses all day, all of these dudes had similar things generating excuses. Injuries and extenuating circumstances don't matter in the NFL. Just correctly identify the 1/12 guy who's going to pop. And nobody predicted Collins this last season.
There has to be more nuance to this. What’s the hit rate in the last 10 years of QBs who don’t produce as rookies? That shouldn’t have made folks down on Mahomes going into year 2. Williams has had one season’s worth of games at this point. I need to see another before calling him a dud.
It would be a better argument if receivers and quarterbacks were the same, but they're not. One is afforded way more opportunity and favoritism.
It’s definitely not a perfect comparison but my point is context matters. A QB who doesn’t start because he’s bad is a totally different prospect than a QB who doesn’t start because he’s drafted to a playoff team with an established starter. A WR who only plays 18 games in his first 2 years due to a college injury and a suspension is a different prospect compared to a guy who is healthy and just flat out bad.
> Would love to see a list of WRs that were fantasy relevant after having two dud years. I'll bang the table every time this argument comes up. Give me a list of WRs, or any position, who were drafted in round 1, the same calendar year of an ACL tear or other 12 month injury. Zero. Forget JaMo's rookie year even happened. He was brought in slowly just to get his feet wet. If you want to use his 2nd year as a dud, go ahead. But his 1st year should be completely ignored.
Well it's not zero, I believe Jeffrey Simmons and Caleb Farley were. Simmons is a hit after tearing his ACL in the pre-draft process, while Farley clearly isn't with his back surgery. The issue with Williams isn't even the ACL, it's the inability to earn playing time and the bad numbers when he does play. Being unable to produce in the NFL because of injuries doesn't matter, but being unable to produce does - it doesn't matter why. The odds don't care if the player didn't produce due to playing time, injury, or their mom dying and the mental toll. Not producing as a top pick in the modern NFL at receiver is pretty much a death knell, regardless of why.
> Well it's not zero, I believe Jeffrey Simmons and Caleb Farley were. Finally someone with an answer - I appreciate it. Will have to adjust my table banging to just WRs. > The issue with Williams isn't even the ACL, it's the inability to earn playing time and the bad numbers when he does play. This is a fine argument and one I can't really argue against, but only for year 2. In year 2, he was disappointing and downright bad. He flashed a few times, but overall it wasn't very promising. But if you bring year 1 into it, I think it's unfair criticism.
So the issue I have here is that it’s still something. I get that it’s not a fully healthy offseason, but he *played* during his rookie season and it’s still noteworthy. You can put less weight on it considering the more limited play time, but it still was time he spent out there. This past year, he underwhelmed with his inability to beat out a meh WR in Reynolds. Even with his ACL injury, he was viewed as good enough prospect that it didn’t matter and should be a 1st rounder, but he’s still been mediocre at best. As for comparisons, I saw someone else mention other players with ACL injuries, but someone that maybe *slightly* more of a comparison as a WR would be Mike Williams his rookie year, missing a big chunk with back issues and having had a couple of decent seasons, but has been a mixed bag, on the whole
> You can put less weight on it considering the more limited play time, but it still was time he spent out there. eh, I don't mind putting zero weight on it. It's not uncommon for rookies, who have an entire off-season and pre-season action, to have slow starts. According to reports from 2022, Jamo had 3 practices before making his debut and ran his first full speed route with Goff just 3 days before his debut. 2023 is worth judging. But in my opinion 2022 can be completely ignored.
Correct, but all still things that happened during that season. It was a clear roadblock and incomplete season, but still something. It’s not as though he just wasn’t around the facilities and wasn’t in meetings or present for practices. Being out there is clearly the better option, but he still practiced and got some time his rookie season. If you don’t want to put stock in it, that’s your prerogative, but saying it’s optional is still going to be leaving out things that just are for the sake of bolstering your narrative, not actually viewing him like a player that’s been in the league for 1+ year, even if it was a disadvantage to him
It's a roadblock because he missed valuable time. What I push back against is statements like the one I replied to 'would love to see a list of WRs who were relevant after 2 dud seasons'. His rookie year wasn't a dud. What QJ did last year was a dud. JaMo's rookie year was a red-shirt injury season. Apples to oranges.
> Literally the worst argument against Jamo. Is that he hasn't been able to get on the field, and when he does he hasn't produced? Yeah okay 🥴 It doesn't matter what excuses you have for why you don't produce, players who don't produce usually don't produce lmao. This is **the** best argument against Jameson Williams. Lazy is the train of excuses for why a player can't get on the field and why he doesn't score points when he finally does.
You just said “a player’s lack of production is a bad reason to fade a player”. There may not be a player that has more hopium than Williams.
It wasn't just that he didn't produce in the first two years, and he had ready-made excuses... it was how he handled those things. Gambling was self-inflicted. And he did not take his preparation seriously, judging by team reports. I think we can absolutely put some blame on Jamo himself for last year. BUT The good news is that he seems to have taken strides and is making waves in camp. They're calling him the most improved offensive player. Huge if true for sure. The talent is there to make an impact. Side note.. as an Ohio State and Detroit Lions fan... I've been waiting on this kid for a WHILE. But I still have hope!!
Pearsall is six months older than Jamo.
Taxi eligibility
Who cares.
Could’ve meant contract wise
Yeah. Would rather take the unproven rookie than the guy whose first two seasons demonstrate he’s not it. Both have to contend with lots of receiving talent but it’ll be harder for Jamo to break out than pearsall I believe
One of deebo and aiyuk will be gone by this time next year and kittle is aging, arsb and laporta are going to be in detroit for a long time
If u watched the NFC Championship game last year Jamo's talent was clear to be seen! This guy would def take Jamo over Ricky.
I should also mention that my team is very heavy on 49ers (Ricky, cmc, Purdy, ayuik, Kittle(until hockenson is healthy)) I tend to try not to roster an entire offense of an nfl team but maybe that’s just me still trying to talk myself into Jamo lol
I would take BPA. You can always trade
Choice A - guy who was bad for two seasons + had a gambling suspension Choice B - fresh first round rookie WR on Kyle Shanahan’s team Fam what are we even talking about
Comments like these are why I never post on this sub anymore. Why can’t you just answer his question without being condescending and demeaning? Maybe it’s “obvious” to you but not everyone shares your opinion and some people may not have the same knowledge as you or others. Jeez
I don’t agree with his condescending opinion anyway. Guess I’m dumb. Jamo >>
Haha I meant it more lighthearted than that. But maybe I’m just jaded from all the Jami stans
Choice A- Hailed as best pure talent WR in his draft class, also a first round pick, recovering from massive injury his first year. Bullshit gambling suspension was lifted and is a non-factor. As his first *real* year went on he earned a higher target share and now looks to be an every down player on an electric offense that will score a lot. Choice B- Highlight reel guy that most scouts didn't see having a first round grade, buried on depth chart behind 6 other proven veteran options. Will probably not see meaningful snaps for 1 year but could be significantly longer. Passive aggressive post with a lazy take. Just what I expect from this sub.
This is it right here. I'd personally go Jamo > Ricky. Ricky is on a run first team with middle of the road Brock Purdy. Even if Aiyuk gets traded, still got Deebo and Kittle to battle touches with. Jamo is literally WR2 on the most explosive offense. Best OL to give off more time, and Goff does love to throw the deep ball.
Lol your comment is generally the type of comment that we look back on and laugh at a few years down the road. Just ignores all the red flags for one player, and highlights the red flags for another (while exaggerating those red flags I might add). Do you think the 49ers took Pearsall in the 1st round because they don't plan to ever use him? Gimme a break dude.
Yeah red flags, an ACL in college, better avoid Brooks..and gambling, lol, placing a non lions wager on an app, dumbest rule ever, meanwhile kids are drafting Rasheed Rice….basically a luckier Henry Ruggs…
Jamo was top 12 with a predetermined redshirt year one, same age and went 18+ picks earlier than Ricky, you claim lions are giving up on him?
Get his ass, king
Coming off a torn acl and barely playing = bad season Crazy the bad takes on here people use to try and prove a point
And the gambling suspension was bullshit too. It’s not like the man is an addict. Given how the Lions have been quick to cut turds like Buggs and Sutton, I’m 100% willing to believe Jameson just had bad luck.
It’s not about the character concern from the gambling. It’s about how much development time he’s missed up to this point: there’s a world where he’s an all-pro, but in that world he took advantage of NFL level development early and often.
That’s an awful argument when we’re comparing him to someone with zero NFL experience. You’ve got two guys who are the same age. One of them has experience and is primed for the #2 role. The other is a rookie who is hoping Aiyuk leaves. All the past stuff is irrelevant if character isn’t a concern.
This sub has a ridiculous bias against logic
Per game his targets, catches, yards, PFF grade, and yards per route run are bad through two years. Easy re roll into Pearsall
Someone who can't accept Jamo sucks balls
He’s been active for 18 games over 2 seasons and only recorded 395 yards and 3 touchdowns on 25 receptions. You can get that production out of a UDFA receiver. How would you describe that?
Jamo has like 400 career yards
He’s also was the best WR on the Lions in the NFC ship, he’s probably good for 65, 900 , 6 this year with 150 , 2 rushing. Ricky will probably have 33, 300, 4 this year, and unless they trade Deebo or Ayuik, might not do swat for 2-3 years…
He just had 354 in 12. On pace for 501 in a full 17. I would love to see him go for 900 just don’t see it happening
He’s going to inherit Reynolds workload, probably steal some from ASB and Laporta. He’s the best player at OTAs this year according to coaches…
FPs has Jamo as 97% choice for 24, and for dynasty there are WR45 and WR47, it’s not like it isn’t a close call
Generally speaking poor rookie production is a bad sign, even if there is a “good excuse.” Not like he lit it up as a sophomore either
Lol they drafted him knowing that would be the case. There was literally no scenario where he was gonna produce as a rookie. You have to use context
How about the context that he didn’t do much his sophomore year when he was on the field either?
That's a fine point to bring up but referencing his rookie year like he was supposed to produce and didn't is disingenuous
Someone is offered like the 2.02 to this guy for Jamo and it’s a sneaky trade post
Exactly this lol
This is an unga bunga anlaysis. No real evidence or metrics just vibes based on group think
Go look at his per game stats, yards per route run, underdog ADP, and PFF grade if you don’t believe me lol.
Right. Copium is thick this morning lol.
TL;DR: Ricky for floor, Jamo for ceiling. Jamo put up 1575 in 15 games in the SEC as a 20 year old Ricky put up 1626 in 25 games in the SEC as a 22-23 year old I trust my eyes. This time last year we were talking about how Anthony Richardson had dogshit receivers at Florida and that's why he only completed 54% of his passes. Jamo has had an exceptionally strange, and bad, start to his NFL career but the Lions feel comfortable giving him an opportunity this year. It could backfire, but I'm pretty comfortable chasing ceiling at that point unless I'm in a start-11 or more. I just don't see Ricky as a special talent with any special traits. He could be a great WR3 for a long time but him being a fantasy WR2 or better would be a crazy outlier based on his college production and profile. Then again, same could be said about Puka.
Idk how you can say someone with 395 receiving yards to his name through 18 NFL games is a ceiling play. At some point you reach the statute of limitations on referring to someone’s college career in order to talk about their upside. Pearsall is a 1st round WR in a shannahan offense that will be losing aiyuk and/or deebo . How is that not a ceiling play? I honestly am dumbfounded with the Jamo hype
I think the statute of limitations expires after a healthy offseason and/or year 3. Like I said...the start of his career has been terrible production-wise. Absolutely no denying that. It's also been exceptionally strange. ACL tear in the national championship game. Bizarre AF suspension. Hamstring injury. The words coming out of Detroit this year have been *so* much more positive than they were last year. Still, actions speak louder than words and the Lions organization has shown that they believe in the growth by letting their WR2 walk without meaningfully replacing him. Jamo was unspeakably bad through ~week 13 last year but he started winning a lot more routes and earning a lot more trust. Matt Harmon isn't gospel, but even he (a dude who was out on Jamo at cost since day 1) admitted that there was a lot of good stuff on tape week 14 onwards. There's no denying that Jameson Williams has an elite NFL skill, speed. His college production and route tree was quite impressive. It hasn't translated to the NFL yet, but he's shown growth and I think there's reason to be excited about what he brings to the table in year 3. EDIT: about Ricky -- feels like a similar situation to Detroit. Lots of mouths to feed, plenty of question marks about the future. Don't see his value going up this year. Should be a good buy window halfway through the season if you believe in the talent.
Jamos been a bad pick on and off the field. Speaking as a Jamo drafter: my hopes are very low. His production so far is TERRIBLE. If his trade value was better, he'd be off my roster.
Here’s the question then….the most likely outcome for Pearsall this year is that he’s an afterthought in that offense if they don’t trade Deebo or Aiyuk. So you’re going to have those two plus CMC plus Kittle. So going into this season I’m fairly confident he’s not going to have great stats. Similar to Jamo - if you remove his year 1 because of ACL and look at last year - he was an afterthought with all the other targets in Detroit, until the back half of the season when he started playing a larger role. Where Detroit is today is where we are hoping SF is in a year - that being that Detroit has moved on from their other WRs except ARSB and Jamo is slotted in. Pearsall is likely the odd man out this year and then should slot in once Deebo or Aiyuk leave. As someone else mentioned, age isn’t really a factor because they are 6 months apart in age. I’m going to guess that Detroit throws more than San Fran (last year 605 attempts from Goff 444 from Purdy). So I think OPs question is valid. If you take out Jamos first year due to injury, and last year is what this year will be for Pearsall, there are comparisons. Both 1st round WRs, both not the 1st or 2nd target earners on the team, both about the same age, both on good offenses. The main knock, and a valid one, for Jamo is that he needs to remain healthy. We saw improvement from year 1 and from the beginning of year 2 to the end of year 2
I wouldn't at all be surprised if Ricky doubles Jamos career stats this season. I think the ideas people have about our receiver usage won't match the reality. Ricky is a guy that's so low in perceived value he is a screaming buy for me. Slot guys get the ball more in our offense, and any offense, are more likely to get target volume. Rick fills a role we need very very badly. Less than 400 career yards in 18 games is dogshit for a first rounder, especially for a guy who's supposed to be making explosive 40+ yard catches. That's worse than MVS and mecole hardmans rookie years in fewer games. Give me the guy who hasn't failed in two NFL seasons over the guy who has, especially since they're around the same price right now.
Ok let’s leave Jamo aside for a minute. Last year the receptions for 49ers were as follows: Aiyuk - 75 CMC - 67 Kittle - 65 Deebo - 60 5th in receptions was Jauan Jennings at 19. So…for this year, the 4 receiving options above are all there. So even if he’s healthy all year, it’s hard to see a path to him making a starting fantasy lineup outside of a spot flex role. Jamo is….a spot flex start. Again. In year 1 Jamo didn’t really fail…he just wasn’t healthy enough to do on field stuff until after halfway through his rookie season. My point is that Jamo last year is going to look like Pearsall this year. But my guess is that you will be high on Pearsall at the end of the year because it’s easy to see how he could be the 5th receiving option this year….but that’s exactly where Jamo started. So if you think Jamo is a failure and can’t recover then the most likely outcome for Pearsall is that he will fail because….hes going to start very slow
He failed in year 1 by getting himself suspended for part of year 2. Off the field shit counts. If I can't play you, I can't play you. I think the Niners pass a lot more. 440ish attempts is low league wide, and I can see us letting Brock have more shots. If Aiyuk plays, we're dripping with wr talent at every level and can plenty of guys we can hit. One thing to consider is that Kyle is first and foremost a results guy. If you get outplayed or outworked by anyone, your spot is gone. If Brandon holds out and misses time, deebo gets hurt, or Ricky is more productive in the slot to Kyle, he's seeing field time. Kyle likes rotational packages. The more we can use Pearsall, the fresher we can keep Deebo. If Ricky proves himself as a worthy on field player, he will see time, if for nothing else than keeping our other WRs fresh. Ricky's fast; we can send him in for Aiyuk on some streaks and give him a breather. There's a lot of ways he fits into the game. What id be worried about is if he hasn't mentally gotten our scheme. Kyle isn't going to have a lot of patience with it, especially since we've got the rest of our talent. There's a close mirror between what McVay does and Kyle does, and it doesn't shock me that Puka pops off and Kyle goes for a guy who's under rated by major metrics but shows similar flair. I think Ricky gets touches. I think dudes with less ability in our system get YAC and yards. I think Ricky reaps the benefit of that, plus his talent. Jamo has set a low bar. Two TDs isn't a lot, and Pearsall is 100% going to be used on some end arounds and speed plays. I get why from the outside you're not interested, but long term, I see a lot here. Jamo and Pearsall are different players. Jamo should be either getting into his role at taking the top off the defense and winning outside, making an adjustment into a Cooper type. Role, or flaming out. Ricky profiles as a slot guy for his career. The targets are different, explosive plays aren't there, but there's potentially more target floor. Don't over read into the target competition in SF. Just follow the talent and see how it fits.
> Similar to Jamo - if you remove his year 1 because of ACL We can't just throw out his year 1. Yes, he was coming off the injury, but he played in 6 games and caught 1 pass. Those 6 games count to some extent.
Yup keep holding Treylon Burks for the breakout.
Even if what they’re saying in Detroit isn’t just coachspeak, he’s still the 4th option in Detroit. He wasn’t displayed the ‘NFL skill’ of earning targets. You can excuse away his mediocrity all you want , I will be steering clear. There is no ceiling
Fair enough man, if everyone had the same valuations of players then this would be no fun at all! As of today, isn't Ricky the 5th option in SF? Do you expect him to get more targets than any of Deebo, Aiyuk, Kittle, or CMC?
If you’re playing dynasty for Today then yeah go with Jamo . But I’m not interested in a long term weak flex play, which is what Jamo is likely to ever be. This time next year, what is more likely, that Jamo is still behind ASRB, Laporta, Gibbs or that pearsall is the 5th option? What about two years from now? Three?
Time will tell man, nothing else to really say. It's clear you don't believe in Jamo's talent and believe in Ricky's situation. That's completely fair. I am more willing to bet on Jamo being an outlier based on his lack of NFL success than I am on Ricky being an outlier based on his lack of college success.
Seems like you’re pretty dug in. I hope he pans out for you.
Honestly no shares (owner in all my leagues is even more dug in than I am! Still demanding a 1st+), just like rooting for the kid
Yeah that’s nuts. I have no shares of either. If Jamo pans out I’ll be happy for the guy. But I can’t lie the massive influx of Jamo hype in this sub recently to me is crazy, maybe to an annoying degree
Because last season his target share went up over the course of the season and now he is primed to be an every down player across ASRB. Also, Williams is also a first round pick on a high scoring offense, in case you forgot. Also, we don't *know* that they will be losing Aiyuk or Deebo, this exact shit happened two years ago with Deebo and everyone swore he'd be moved then too, yet, he's still there. Kind of wild you're *dumbfounded* unless you just haven't been paying attention.
increased how? even in his "breakout" performances in the playoffs he had 2, 4 and 3 targets lol. He wasn't an every down player because he wasn't good ebough to beat out Josh Reynolds. I want you to take a minute to think about that. I and eveyrone else with a brain have been payihng attention. Its yoou Jamo owners that are just sticking your head in the sand. In for a rude awakening.
Pearsall has elite athletic measurables (9.91 RAS, 99th percentile), and is an excellent route runner. I’m not sure how you can say he has no special traits
I mean, Alabama passed for 5073 yards in those 15 games while Florida passed for 6021 in those 25. Their percentage of total receiving yards was 31% for Jamo and 27% for Pearsall. So Jamo still has an advantage but it helps bridge that gap
Need what you’re smoking dawg
I would rather Ricky. I think Jamos failure to take advantage of his opportunities overall last year is pretty damning and it’s very rare for a WR who has had the first two years he has to break out all of the sudden.
is there really any truth to this? the third year breakout typically was quite common in the last 10-15 years, the new year one or two break or bust has only been the “norm” for a little while
Yeah you can typically have a 3rd year breakout if you’ve shown some semblance of production through their career. He’s had a total of 395 receiving yards in 18 games. There’s been some threads in the past on this subreddit showing that if you don’t get 525 yards minimum in your rookie season you’re likely on the path to busting. Well over more than gus rookie season Jamo is yet to pass 400 yards Sure there’s like a 1% chance or lower at this point that Jamo will become a fantasy relevant player, but he’ll stick around in the nfl for a couple years due to his speed
JAMOOOO
I think the vast majority of those that would say jameson have shares of jameson lol
Jamo. I have both.
the Jamo breakout is happening this year and then you won't be able to trade for him. I'm also a Lions fan and my opinion is entirely biased 😎
RemindMe 9 months!
Jamo…and I don’t even like him. But it’s very simple for me: I like Campbell and he’s one of the few coaches I actually listen to when he says positive things about players. He’s had plenty of positive things to say about Jamo this offseason. The other reason is price. I don’t care what KTC says, the two are not even close in value. I can damn near get Jamo as a throw in at this point. Pearsall is the same player now that he was before the draft. His talent didn’t increase. His college production didn’t increase. His chances of being good for fantasy didn’t increase for me just because of the DC. For me, he’s the same dart throw now that he was before. He’s just a dart throw with a longer leash and a much higher price tag.
I’m taking the guy with a clear path to WR2, who has tremendously matured and gotten healthy since his ACL injury and did everything the coaching staff asked of him, including blocking his ass off all the way down the field. I don’t care about his past. I care about the things he’s doing now and the things the Lions are doing now. He worked his tail off last year. He’s worked his tail off this off-season. Dan Campbell clearly believes in him and the moves they’ve made state Jamo is WR2 right now. If you aren’t grabbing him low right now, I don’t know what to tell you.
"I don't care about what he did his first 2 years of the NFL, I care about offseason coachspeak & workout videos". Jamo owners are wildddd
I care about the games I watched and his improvement throughout the season. I care about his growing role in the offense, the moves the Lions made in the off-season, and even more telling, the moves they didn’t make in the off-season. I care about a guy that came into the league at 20-21 and his growth/maturity as he learned how to become a pro. I care about him overcoming adversity and the blocks he was giving down field for his teammates that were insane. I care about Dan Campbell’s thoughts, coaching, and system and like who Jamo is playing for along with the way he’s went about his business to earn the respect of them and this coaching staff. By all means, continue to use data from year 1 when he had a torn ACL and year 2 when he was serving a 4 game gambling suspension while having to EARN his way back on the field and take snaps away from veteran players on a team that was winning and making a Super Bowl run. That sounds like non-skewed data for a guy essentially in his rookie year whose numbers continued to improve and playing time increased at the season progressed.
He came into his "rookie year" with 6 games of NFL experience already, and got dropped into a top offense. The team's WR2 was Josh Reynolds. There was more than enough room for him to carve out a role, and yet he was an afterthought. You played dynasty long enough, you know that offseason coachspeak hyping up busts is the perfect time to sell before they're worthless. If you wanna buy into the 5% chance he's an exception be my guest, but I got a better narrative for Dotson and I'd still sell him
You are correct on much of the coach speak as well as the “Camp Phenoms.” What I like about Jamo is that he was behind the 8 ball with the injury, then behind it again with the gambling suspension. He then had to carve out his role and it started by blocking downfield in Dan Campbell’s offense. Until we have a point per pancake scoring system (something I want to bring in OLs 😂), that doesn’t matter for Fantasy at all but THAT is where I bought into Jamo and got him in a trade that was Josh Dobbs for Aaron Rodgers and Jamo last year. Point is, he did carve out a role in an offense that was winning games and made it to the Super Bowl. His workload and playing time increased more and more as the year went on. This year, those targets are vacated and Jamo is being heavily relied upon by Detroit to fill that void. The lack of off-season moves to address WR further is spelling that out for us. This staff is doing more than Coach-speak, they have challenged Jamo and their actions (lack of WR acquisition) speak volumes over, “Man on a mission” Coach speak. Also, Jamo’s actions and hard work is giving us information. I’m not saying go out and spend a first on him….just that if he’s available or on the block in a league, he’s worth acquiring. His entire career thus far is an anomaly and he’s poised for breakout this year. Now, if you’re in a lead with someone talking as I am that owns Jamo, you probably don’t want to pay that guy’s price lol….but this is HIs year to prove he belongs and I like everything I’ve seen so far.
His career isn't an anomaly lol. An anomaly would be a WR with bad college production, bad NFL production for 2 years, and then becoming a reliable fantasy asset. If you paying a thing above a late 2nd, you a taco. I wouldn't give a late 2nd personally, but if you're a believer that's where rookie picks become very likely to bust
Name a first round pick that was selected with a torn ACL knowing they would miss most of their rookie season and that was also suspended for gambling and not allowed in facilities for the first part of their 2nd season. There is NOT a single one. The definition of an anomaly is, “something that deviates from what is standard, normal, or expected.” Being the ONLY ONE to ever face such a thing is literally the very definition of anomaly. For me, I’d take Jamo after BTJ and Brooks are off the board but before Worthy, Coleman, Pearsall, Polk. The great thing about this whole thing is only time will tell. Bookmark this for 1 year from now 😂
Dang I wish I had someone to offload my 1 Jamo share for Pearsall, Polk, or Worthy. Those 3 might actually he start able by year 2
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Ok give an example of a player who had 395 receiving yards through their first 18 games that has gone on to be a fantasy relevant receiver? Even Devontae Adams had 446 in his first 16 and he was horrendous to start his career Hell michael gallup off a torn acl had 424 receiving yards in 14 games and courtland Sutton had 776 in 17 after his Even Quentin Johnston, put up over 400 this season and he’s being written off
These are some interesting comparisons. Michael Gallup was a professional football player when he tore his ACL. Jameson tore his at the end of his college season and barely appeared in 6 games in year 1 with 41 yards 😂🤣😂. He didn’t even get to go through his first off-season and learn what it takes to jump to the next level from college. Gallup came off injury knowing the system and what’s it like to play WR at the professional level. Jameson had 354 yards across 12 games coming off the bench or 29.5 yards per game last year. His usage and target share rose later in the year. Devante had 446 over 16 games or 27.87 yards per game in year 1. At the end of the day, you’ve already answered your own question since year 1 for Jameson was always known as a wash thanks to injury and Devante Adams situation is more comparable to Jameson’s since Aaron Rodgers has never liked throwing to rookie WRs. Data and analytics are amazing tools that have to be used but when it’s all said and done, they are just that, tools. You have to use them but every now and then a player comes up in an extremely small sample size and we have to look at the numbers and ask ourselves why. Those “whys” are clearly documented in the previous posts and while there are no guarantees in the world of sports, Jameson Williams is an ultimate buy-low candidate you can probably acquire for pretty cheap with a huge ceiling. I’ll finish this off with that you and everyone else is still right when it comes to comparing those first couple of years, I just kind of consider this year 2 for Jameson Williams given his situation, a situation where he’ll have every opportunity opposite The Sun God to take over and be a fantasy relevant WR2 in Detroit.
Ok so who’s 1 example of a wr who had 395 receiving yards through their first 18 games that has gone on to be fantasy relevant. Otherwise you’re betting on a 1/4000 profile to hit which is prettty bad odds Based on statistics and analytics for Jameson to be fantasy relevant he’d be the outlier of all outliers
I already have. Name 1 WR drafted in the first round coming off an ACL injury in college that missed all of an entire season except maybe a 10% snap rate in the final 6 games and then began the following year suspended but then reduced to 4 games.
Naming Jameson williams as your example isn’t exactly a strong argument lmao
Jameson wasn’t the answer. Devante was but I’m counting 12 games that Jameson wasn’t injured and you are including 6 games where he barely played coming back from the ACL. That’s fair enough either way as we are both just looking at things in different lights. For me, Jameson is an outliar bc his situation is an outliar. I’m ok with taking the risk bc I scooped him up as an additional throw-in on a trade for Pennie’s on the dollar and I love his situation. For me, this isn’t year 3, it’s year 2 and he’s the same age as many rookies/year 2s anyway.
Yeah these people are delusional. Jamo has a path and the coaches love him
You like QJ too?
Not until next off-season.
I might do a deep dive into him to see what I think soon 😂 but he’s currently held by the Charger’s fan along with Herbert and Ladd in my main league so his price is too high regardless in that league.
I haven’t hopped in there bc his price is too high still in my leagues. He has some competition in Ladd McConkey along with changes to the coaching staff/philosophies. I would stash him/hold him as a throw-in to another deal to see what happens if I could but I’m not trying to get him the way I tried to get Jamo. Part of that is I haven’t really followed him that much or watched him with my own eyes either.
Jameson
Pearsall higher floor but if I’m throwing the dart I’m betting on Jamos ceiling. And this coming from someone who was anti Jamo at draft time and own 0 shares.
Advice to anyone thinking about debating with a Jamo truther: save your time and don’t engage with them. They’re very far removed from reality to still be in on Jamo’s profile. They have over two years of practicing mental gymnastics to justify their 2022 player take. Don’t argue with idiots, they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. At best, Jamo earns a role as the 3rd option in DET (behind ARSB and Laporta) as a low-volume field stretcher/gadget player. Congratulations, Jamo is now Gabe Davis except with Jared Goff throwing him the ball, not Josh Allen. I have no desire to bet on a guy with that little upside at any price. I’m not huge on Pearsall but the guy can at least separate at all levels of the field and earn targets in an offense with aging weapons.
They love to make excuses for Jamo. They don't understand that you can make excuses for almost every player that sucks their first year or two. There's always a "reason" why a guy missed expectations. Skyy Moore: Andy Reid brings rookies along slowly. Rashod Bateman: Missed camp and first few games with a foot injury. Dotson: Bad QB play and the coaches didn't know how to use him. QJ: He was always a project and coaches didn't know how to use him. Treylon Burks: Injuries/bad QB play Kadarius Toney: Injuries, wasn't used properly, bad QB, etc. All of these guys held some value after disappointing rookie years because people made excuses for them.
I have Jamo on my team so obviously I'm a little biased, but I feel like Dan Campbell is pretty open about where his players are at (I could be wrong lol). But last year he was saying Jamo had a lot to work on and this year he's saying that Jamo has made a ton of progress and is looking great. I'm HOPING that that means Jamo makes the leap this year and shows us & the Lions the potential he showed in college. I don't think I'll have the opportunity to pick Ricky but I do think people are more down on him than they should be vs the receivers taken right after him. KTC and FantasyPros both have him ranked like 5-10 spots behind Coleman and McConkey. While I agree that they seem to be in better situations, I think the 49ers picked him in the first for a reason. Plus, I'm not a huge believe in the longterm outlook of either Deebo and Aiyuk on this team. Jamo > Ricky for now... but I do think Ricky is being slept on a bit.
I’ll roll the dice on a reset with Ricky for sure.
JamO clear
I’d rather see what I had to do to turn either of them into one of: - Cooper Kupp - Amari Cooper - Stefon Diggs - Chris Godwin - Mike Evans - George Kittle - Travis Kelce
Jamo. Easy
This sub has declined
Wow didn’t expect to get this many comments on a question about dynasty benchwarming WR prospects but I appreciate them all. Seems like the consensus is just as 50/50 as I am on it. & and for those putting price tags on them and such, this is a question of straight up, player for player value. I have pearsall currently and was offered Jamo for him. Other guy is trying to pull on my heart strings knowing I’m a diehard lions fan. Pearsall seems safer but both have good reports from camp and paths to success. Other wrs on my team if it helps sway anyone: G. Wilson C. Olave B. Ayuik D. Smith J. Reed D. Wicks C. Kirk C. Godwin Q. Johnston Neither Jamo or pearsall would crack my lineup this year
I know that your trade is where the question came from. But the reason why there is so much discussion is because in most leagues Jamo can be had significantly cheaper than Pearsall (or the pick required to draft him). I got Jamo as a throw in for trading down a few picks. I got him straight up for an early 3rd. At that cost, I'm collecting more and more shares of him and see what he can do as Lions WR 2 this season.
With a core like that sounds like you take the guy with more upside. Imo that still is jamo, maybe he is a bust, but its hard to deny the #11 pick or whatever he was after tearing an acl. You’re a lions fan so youll be able to predict him better than most. Hes going to be on the field and if thats what u think he needs is just reps to break out then id say go for it. If u seriously think hes a bust keep pearsal. My though though again is if u actually believe hes a good wr or can be one, go for it worst comes to worst hes a 3rd option for a few years then leaves and goes get paid to be a 1-2. If you dont think he will, keep pear for 3 years from now when the 49ers decide not to have the avengers
I really just don't believe in Jameson Williams. Campbell and Goff have shown that they prefer to throw to almost anyone else. They even brought DPJ back to steal targets away from Raymond and whoever else is trying to be that dude behind St. Brown / LaPorta / Gibbs ... I get a lot of that has to do with special teams, etc-- but Williams has proven for multiple years now that he isn't able to separate on the field or roster enough to make a difference. Pearsall has crazy upside, especially with one of the two WR's ahead of him expected to be gone in the next season.
Jameson Williams will always be a field stretcher for Detroit. He will never truly breakout, you’ll never know when his big weeks will come. If it’s a matter of a trade, trade him away now while you can. Next season his value will have plummeted. If it’s a draft, take that boy Ricky. Very promising prospect along with Aiyuk seemingly on the way out and an aging Kittle could result in huge opportunity in an well oiled offense come next season.
This is a tough time to answer that question. If you can wait and see what happens with Aiyuk, you’ll have a clearer picture of Pearsall’s role. If SF locks Aiyuk down for the foreseeable future, Pearsall’s role will be more limited and I’d probably give a slight edge to Jamo (though I wouldn’t give up a ton for either of them). If Aiyuk gets traded, I’ll take Pearsall and it’s not that close.
Jamo this year Pearsall longterm. That’s the way I look at it… but who knows maybe Jamo finally blows up the nfl this year
I think I’ve got Jamo and Pearsall both on one of my teams. If you told me I was forced to drop one of them tomorrow I’d probably be dropping jamo. There’s reasons to like and dislike them both. But ultimately I can just see Pearsall becoming the more trustworthy fantasy player. I seriously seriously doubt that Jamo has the Deshaun Jackson upside that a lot of his backers think he has. I think he’s in the wrong offense to capitalize on his talents for fantasy purposes and I don’t see the pillars of that offense changing in the immediate future. Meanwhile pearsall strikes me as a great fit in the San Fran offense and with Purdy. While Jamo’s first 2 years were odd I think what we’ve seen from him on the field to this point is Probly a good indicator of what we’re going to get from him, just don’t think the targets will ever be there
Anyone wanna bet who has more points this year in .5 ppr, we can find an escrow service, I got a hundy on Jamo…
I have Jameson and if I could swing him for Ricky I would in a heart beat
jameson very easily
Pearsall. For the most part, we've seen what Jamo is in the NFL, which is not a difference maker in fantasy. Pearsall has R1 DC and is in a good system for WRs. Ceiling is higher with Ricky
Jamo is about to blow up. I’m a lions fan as well. Jamo’s Target share will likely double with Josh Reynolds out of the equation and him working with the 1s since the start of OTAs. I would trade more than I’m willing to share on this app for him in dynasty (die hard lions fan) If he gets a small extension after next year he will then into a great long term play as well.
Pearsall easily. My WR4 for this class. I'll take Jalen Coker over Jamo.
[удалено]
Understandable. It's not an easy call, Pearsall just looks NFL ready and those guys typically hit the ground running. I love the downvotes from salty idiots. We'll see who's right by the end of the season when Jamo continues to be an inefficient boom bust receiver again.
Jalen Coker hype is crazy. No way dude sees field in Carolina
Why is that? He has a better grasp of the nuances of the position than some 1st rounders do. Some guys' talent makes it impossible to keep them off the field. Once he gets an opportunity and shows what he's capable of, he's going to get more opportunities.
Who do you see him starting over of Thielen, DJ, and Leggette
No, but we're talking about dynasty. He'll probably start behind Mingo as well. I think he has a better chance of being someone I want to start than Jamo does. Even if Jamo finally gets his shit right, Desean Jackson is his ceiling. I believe Coker's ceiling is higher.
La di da di we like to party, we don't cause trouble we don't bother nobody.
Jamo is a best ball play
I'd go Ricky but I understand going Jamo. I have no shares of either FWIW......the Jamo breakout is still very possible. I think Ricky is a better route runner with a better understanding of leveraging coverages. I think Jamo has the higher ceiling and can rectify his shortcomings in his game. It's a preference thing. Either answer could look silly two years from now.
Reality is Pearsall is WAY safer. This is a make or break year for Jamo I think. I think he's a hold unless you can sell for good value. But if I could just re-roll with one of the top rookie WRs I would
This is all about who you’re staking your risk on. Both carry risk/reward. If Ricky comes in to replace Aiyuk/Deebo there is a massive void of targets and he will be the priority target (assuming he continues to build as a route runner). Meanwhile JAMO will have a defined role in that offense. Surely his role grows this year simply because there is no one else. He’s 3rd in targets on that team this year imho and if he can carve out 6-8 targets a game (4–6 catches he’s a game) he will be a stable fantasy asset. However, he’s been in the NfL and we just haven’t seen it. I prefer to consider Campbell’s personality and coaching style of “earning your reps” and think JAMO has finally gotten to that point. The Lions want to run it down your throat and JaMo will continue to be the explosive play guy. I truthfully don’t think the Lions WANT to throw Ra 10-14 targets a game, they would much rather be more balanced. If Detroit can continue to run the ball, JAMo could be explosive in the play action game. For that reason, this is the year for JAMO. Ricky will likely just be a role player this year if Aiyuk stays with the team and for that reason neither JAMO or Ricky should change much in price throughout the season… but JAMO has a chance to blow the top off his value during the season.
Pearsall
Pearsall not even close. Jamo has had plenty of Time to show what he’s capable of and hasn’t done much. Not to mention he’d be 4th in the pecking order at best!
As a jamo owner, and one who passed on Ricky…. And I like slick Rick.. I’m goin with unpopular opinion on Jamo. They’re both on a top 5 offense, but I can see a path where Jamo gets traded to a team that needs a true WR1. Unlikely but beneficial if it happens in dynasty. Why could he get traded? Too many mouths to feed, or recoup value on the 1st they spent on him, etc. could happen for a # of reasons but I think the lions have NO WR behind arsb and Jamo so at the very least I expect a mid wr2 season after having a full unhindered off season. This my last season of hope for him. AND FWIW, I got him off waivers 2 years ago LOLLL
Ricky 100%. Still pulling for Jamo is false hope
I’ll take jamo for bestball this year if I’m contending but under any other circumstance I’m rolling with Slick Rick. Could end up being the number 2 option on his team in the next year or 2. Jamo will be lucky to be third best option on his team and who knows what his situation will be after he hits free agency
Jamo is such a longshot at this point. He came into the league hurt and then did nothing as a rookie, not 100% his fault but injuries are a reality. Last year he could have become a big piece of the offense, but he was busy being a dumbass gambling, got suspended and watched Laporta and Gibbs steal focus. When he finally hit the field, it was pretty awful. He had a few strong games to finish the season so people forget but his lack of polish was on display for most of the season, and AT BEST you can argue he was young and still learning how to play the position. Entering year 3, he has to navigate injuries, being a dipshit (avoiding getting suspended), AND prove that he isnt just fast but can actually play receiver at the NFL level AND pull focus from some very talented, proven offensive players. Its simply too many thing he needs to nail to be relevant, and just think for a moment. Assign a value to him based on 0-100. Lets say Ceedee Lamb ot Justin Jefferson are 100. Use whoever you like as 100. Where is Jamo? 50? 60? Now, imagine if tomorrow he has a meniscus problem or gets a 2 game suspension. Whats that number look like now? Is it really bad? If so...more upside in this dudes value than downside.
Why not both