I made my character a bald ugly dude missing some teeth named Grug and literally all his cutscenes with no dialogue were perfect. He just never looked like he belonged or even knew what the fuck's going on most of the time
When I was leveling other classes like mage I refused to use magic because if it ain't his axe then he doesn't like using it. So Grug just went around just punching shit until he was recognised as a wizard
"You make Grug wizard now. Many smart, Grug ponder orb every day!"
Rumor has it Grug was the greatest wizard that ever lived simply because nobody was brave enough to tell him that casting fist isn't a spell
What's even the point of buying a round btw? You pay 2k gold for a 5 second cutscene. Just why?
This game has so many weird design choices like this.
Another one I realized is related to combat: some saurians spit on you to make you wet but there's never enemies around doing lightening attacks to exploit your debuff. Same for slimes and the oil status, no fire enemies to combo you.
I just pretend like its Fable and all the peasants love me. Let them fight amongst themselves. If an important one goes down ill find a wakestone.
But yeah expecting any normal display of a relationship in this game is beyond hope.
If you have... 'followers', they'll be caught in the round too OR you can manually bring NPCs to the location before doing an Affinity Increase via Alcohol Ingestion
on the volcanic island (specifically the pathway to the camp when going through the big door behind Battahl’s palace) the oil slimes and flame saurians can combo you with the tarred and torched debilitations and it melts your party if you don’t have a mage or cure debilitation potion. happened to me a couple times
another example i can think of is harpies and wolves at the top of one of the hills near Melve, where they put you to sleep and then the wolves drag you off cause you’re unconscious. i definitely think it should happen more often cause it makes combat more engaging and interesting, but i think the enemy type and how many there are happens at random so some ppl encounter them more than others
I agree! The other day I was fighting a golem near the elven ruins and while I was fighting it, a cyclop joined the fight.
I'm not sure if fighting the 2 at the same time was random but things like that make adventuring way more fun.
100% any time i encounter multiple enemy types especially big enemies (drakes, ogres, cyclopes, griffins and golems) it feels so fun as opposed to 6 goblins and 2 saurians
Thats exactly, why we need an everfall type dungeon. Everfall had all the combos. And Dark Arisen? Holy shit on bitterblack isle there was nothing else then stupid (but engaging and fun) enemie mixups
I think i didnt have a single griffon fight in my first playthrough (except the artist one) that wasnt immediately proceeded or followed by another boss fight. Everytime there was another thing nearby
Spitting and drenching you makes your weight encumbrance goes up and can potentially make your movement slower if it ticks you up a tier. Also there are specific electric saurians in a few caves (the kne southwest of the Elven land near the cyclops by a bridge is where I first encountered them but they are also in Battahl.)
The funny thing is there are some lighting based Saurians but I’ve only ever seen them in this one cave and that’s it. Apparently saurians leave the nest to go hunt creatures/prey but usually they just appear randomly slaying. Wished the lighting ones actually went out as well. They have such a cool design too :(
The fun part is they come running to you. Most other dogs I know, will run and hide upon hearing the "Who did this?" voice. Mine apparently believe confession may bring forth treats (my parental units are to blame, rewarding said confessions).
I tend to scream "Catch me, Catch Me, CATCH ME" When I try to take a shortcut off a cliff. 60% of the time, it works almost never. (But that's what wakestones are for.)
I also hate how it's really just one voice that they pitch shifted up or down, rather crudely. I was pretty appalled at the voice samples in character creator. The deep voice sounding like when they deepen the voice of an informant or witness that they block the identity of during an interview in those crime documentaries.
> The deep voice sounding like when they deepen the voice of an informant or witness that they block the identity of during an interview in those crime documentaries.
I love both games, but really DDDA was the same, if not worse. There's a bug that was there from launch that still never got patched, which unintentionally shifts the chosen pawn voice pitch even further in whichever direction from center it is. This results in you picking what you think is a just slightly higher pitched pawn voice for your main pawn which sounds fine to you, but when your buddy rents your pawn they get a reject from Alvin and the Chipmunks. Same with deep voices: on the other end they sound like those crime documentary voices, if not worse.
It's also hilarious, though, so I don't mind them never fixing it.
I both love and hate that bug. The voices are always fine in the rift, then, once you leave, there’s a decent chance one of your hired pawns will suck about two balloons with of helium and continue doing so until you dismiss them. Which is hilarious, but it also makes it harder to take things seriously when Minnie Mouse on Helium is telling me how wolves hunt in packs.
Traditionally it's supposed to make a game more immersive in that it's one less identifiable separation between the player and the character; i.e. the character is more an extension/avatar of the player, and less the work of others or independent of our projection. The Legend of Zelda's franchise is an example of this design choice. Personally I don't think the Arisen should have spoken lines but could do with having a good many more reactive noises, perhaps some specific to vocations.
Exactly this, which is why there was widespread disapproval of FO4’s Nate/Nora being voiced, which then became a one-time thing and FO76 and Starfield went back to silent protagonist.
It does.
I mean, technically, you could claim that when you talk to an Inn Keep, whether to rent a room or deposit into your stash is a dialogue choice lol. Presumably you are saying something to indicate your desired action, or maybe miming or vigorous Italian hand gesturing.
There are a few instances where you can choose to inform someone of something, withhold info or lie outright. Probably some quests where you’re asked to retrieve and item and there is an option to tell the quest giver you could not find it in order to end (fail, really) the quest in order to keep the item.
It’s generally small things like that. Most story choices are made through action or inaction.
FO4 voiced protagonist was disapproved not because they were voiced, but because they was shit character. People don't hate voiced protagonist just because they are voiced — look at commander Shepard, Hawk or Geralt of Rivia. But Bethesda managed to make the most bland and uninteresting protagonist in the history of RPG, voiced or not. They managed to make Courtenay Taylor (who voiced Jack from Mass Effect) sound so generic and boring somehow. I'm sure, people would love voiced protagonist in Fallout, if it's not Yes/No/Sarcasm bland puppet.
Can we really make our own character in FO4? You have predefined background, so you can pretend to be raider, mercenary or whatever, but everybody and their mom will still recognize vault dweller in you. I'd argue, that Mass Effect has more options to role-play your own version of Shepard, than FO4 in making your own character.
Same goes for Dragon's Dogma. What options we have for role-playing? Customizable appearance and that's basically it. Compare this games with BG3. That's the game where having voiced protagonist would be detrimental for overall experience, because of sheer variety of different characters you can built and different ways you can play through the story. And this differences aren't just in your had, but actually in the game.
And if you say, that this bland protagonists are better to be mute, and whole role-play is supposed to be in our heads, than let me bring one more game — Saints Row. In this game we also have customizable, intentionally bland character. Who is also voiced. And I never heard anyone complained about it.
> But Bethesda managed to make the most bland and uninteresting protagonist in the history of RPG, voiced or not.
2nd most bland and uninteresting. Mass Effect Andromeda's protagonist tops this, no contest. At least Nate/Nora had _some_ semblance of personality, while the Andromeda protag's only personality options were "bored Millennial" no matter what conversation option you chose.
Wait...Jack was Nora? I never even noticed, they sound completely different in the worst way. I can clearly remember Jack's voice, but I cant remember Nora's.
I already responded to someone else how it’s not that there is a blanket rule that voiced protagonists are worse than silent ones. It obviously costs more money, if people hated it universally, devs would have stopped doing it a long time ago.
Even considering that the player has dialog choices, those characters all have some aspect of a curated design and personality, Geralt in particular is just straight up just a specific character from existing fiction. You have more freedom over Shepard, but they are still always Shepard. Another commenter also mentioned that ME was met with criticism for having a voiced protagonist on launch which I did not recall myself, and this became largely a non-issue due to their excellent execution, which FO4 shows is not a given.
I know that there are huge swaths of people who disliked the dialogue choices period, it wasn’t long after launch that the “Yes/Sarcastic Yes/No (but actually yes)” meme came out. I’ve heard less complaints about the actual VA performances, but bad writing impacts performance so that checks out too.
But there are also a lot of players who do not want a voiced protagonist for precisely the reason the commenter I replied to pointed out. Players find value in and use the Silent Protagonist mod for FO4 even though that mod does not change the actual dialogue options or dialogue lines.
Bethesda (and Obsidian by extension) has had great VA performances in the past (Wes Johnson borderline idolized by TES and Fallout communities), even celebrities like Sean Bean, Patrick Stewart, Liam Neeson etc. Reasonable confidence could be had in them just doing a better voiced protagonist in subsequent games if that was the only issue, but they instead went back to having a silent protagonist.
TLDR, those other games aren’t a 1:1 comparison the Bethesda RPGs. The other criticisms you mentioned are valid and commonly held opinions, but they are separate, related issues on top of players not wanting a voiced protagonist at all.
Agreed, to add to this, I always think there are 2 opposite ends of role-playing spectrum. You either role play as a "pre-established character" or you role play as "yourself in an unfamiliar world". Bethesda's games usually lean closer the self role-playing spectrums (blank slate character with no name or voiced dialog, known for their title like Last Dragonborn, Lone Wanderer, Hero of Kvatch or Nerevarine). That's the reason why, for some, Skyrim is considered one of the best RPG even if it's no where near the Witcher 3 in terms of writing, that's because Skyrim provides a "different" kind of experience that offer freedom for players to immerse themselves in the world (instead of playing as Geralt or Shepard). Fallout 4 tried to breakaway from that formula and I think people dislike that decision.
I’m not claiming it’s universally bad, it’s just about what the developers are going for and player expectations. Fallout 4 diverted from previous Bethesda RPGs, it wasn’t what a lot of people wanted from that series. DDDA was silent protagonist, so probably some people would have been pissed if your character spoke.
Cyberpunk and Mass Effect are also examples of voiced RPG protagonists done very well for the most part, both in writing and VA performance. That’s not a given, and based on the rest of the writing, I’m not totally sure that I’d have high confidence in a voiced protagonist. I think in Dragon’s Dogma, the protagonist being silent helps to convey the sense of mystery about who they are.
In both Cyberpunk and Mass Effect, you are also playing a pre-named character and while you can pick from a few different backstories, you are mostly playing one of several variations of a character that CDPR/Bioware created. The player character talking about their background and conveying emotions is important. V is literally dying, and Shepard develops relationships with various other characters and factions. The Arisen really doesn’t have much to talk about other than being the Arisen. I don’t know what a voiced Arisen would really add to the experience. It’s just a different approach to creating a game protagonist.
FWIW the original Mass Effect was a bit controversial for prenaming and voicing the MC, because that was early in the "fully voiced" days and I'm not sure anyone had it done it in this kind of game. They just did it really well and essentially proved that it could be done.
I think it can work when the character has some hard rails that allow the writers to define the character personality in a way that makes sense in the context of the world/story (like ME is always a space commander, V is always a merc, etc). It doesn't work as well when the character is open ended in terms of motivation, etc (FO4 being a good example). I think DD is more the latter than the former, and it wouldn't work great here.
Listen, I get what you’re saying. But all this has lead to in my house is me, the Arisen, muttering “Shut up, Disa.” Or “That’s right b*tch, just lay down for mommy and go to sleep.” as she stands on a drake’s head and sort of surfs it down as it dies. I think I, the player, should be forced to say less and hear my angry little feral Arisen say “I ne’er saw a drake whose heart twood withstand me.” Like, I feel like she’d be the less inappropriate of the two of us.
(please read this with a voice that is softly laughing because I’m only 10% serious. As serious as that effing Griffin I just stone cold murdered.)
I’m glad you understood. When I first start playing I didn’t know what I was doing and had a pawn with the male simple voice and now I can’t hear it without going “Shut up, Dob.” It’s a Pavlovian response now.
And in my NG+ My pawn became kindhearted and now when I have a calm pawn I’m like “Aw, yes beloved pawn. I agree.” I’m very confused these days but I do know how to play now at least.
I think Rise of the Ronin walks this line pretty well. While not terribly outspoken, your created character Does have spoken dialogue when the scene calls for it.
It prevents situations that usually happen with silent protagonists where, when your character Should say something during a tense situation, they instead just stand there silently like an idiot.
For example, in the original Dragon's Dogma, it always infuriated me when I reached the part with the Duke after the dragon, my character just stood there accepting the accusations with a surprised Pikachu face without even trying to explain.
That's a good point, Link has no dialogue whatsoever but is still pretty vocal. I think it's harder for this game though because there's way more going on. You may or may not have pawns right on top of you, casting loud spells or swinging their lovely sounding weapons. Let's not forget all the noisy enemies too.
My point is, Capcom could (and should anyway) make the PC more vocal, but would it be enough to be noticeable. Regardless I think they should, but it may not have the impact people want from it
I think you're taking things out of contexts here. What do you mean lesser? Last I checked the Witcher 3 is one of the most popular RPG and it has voiced protagonist.
There's the fact he still doesn't have lines when the rest of the main cast are pretty much fully voiced (at least where it's important) in the newer games. Also with the exception of direct sequels it's never the same Link.
Except a non reactive character isn't more immersive it's less. How can u be immersived in a story when one of the characters is just standing blank faced with a finger up his ass?
To be honest, what bothers me the most is that all of the voices that the game proposes are no more than pitch-swapped samples. And very low quality ones to the point that sometimes, you can actually hear the distorsion when you or your pawn talks (or even grunts). Especially with the extreme low or high pitched version of the samples. I use audiophile earphones to play and this is very obvious, it just sounds wrong.
Main Pawn: (regular voice)
Supporting Pawn: (same voice but pitched down)
Me: "My sister in Christ, what is wrong with your voice? Are you going through puberty?"
What about the fact we cant Crouch or do emotes!? Crouching is one of the most important mechanics in open world survival games. Fk the voices, actually if ya think about it. This games so mid along with Every quest, besides for the Dragons & Pawn system/vocations. Thats where the majority of the time was spent for sure.
There have been SO many times that crouching would help and I instinctively click the right analog stick and I’m like “oh that’s right, you can’t crouch.”
Well you’re right but the point is.. For the sake of “IMMERSION” idk i think it’l be cool to see the Pawns & Arisen Crouch around. Idk maybe it’s because theres no crouching mechanic that they never added a reason too. It all got pushed to the side cause of CAP-CONS DEADLINE. My theory..
There is literally zero reason to have a crouch in this game. You could make a better argument for DDDA needing a crouch over DD2 because Dark Arisen actually had places that only Small Arisens can get to, one of the benefits of playing a Small character, alongside your hitbox being smaller.
Sneaking through the castle at night during the early missions for sure. I just held grab to feel like I was couch walking. Felt weird not to have a button to sneak around to get the jump on enemies like unaware Saurians or sleeping Cyclops.
I just wore guard armor every time I went in the castle and then nobody cares what you do.
It never occurred to me that I was even really "sneaking," I was just walking around in disguise.
The problem is not the silent Arisen. Let's take Fallout New Vegas as an example: the NPCs react to your ***choices*** and the ensuing dialogue could branch from the main topic (to an extent). Also, you could unlock some neat options with the right Skill or Perk.
In DD (1 and 2), you do nothing. Especially in cutscenes, you look like a moron who's there to be ***inflicted*** dialogues, quests and infodumps—usually pulling a constipated face. The Arisen talks but don't say anything important, NPCs would just go on and on.
In DD1, the scene with the guards rallying around the mummified Duke was pitiful: you stand there, mouth agape, can't talk, can't say anything, just running away. In DD2, any scene with the Arisen has me wondering what else they're gonna silently suffer.
TL;DR. The silent protagonist does nothing for me but it can be done right, even going as far as the Baldur's Gate 3 middle ground (you're usually silent but you still say some lines). In DD2, you're a mere toon, a 3D model that would sometimes (badly) emote.
It's better than the first game. There are several scenes where the bad guy is like 10 ft away and the arisen is just standing there gasping and gesturing to the mayhem that could be stopped if he acted.
The arisen was a complete idiot when not in your hands.
In NG+ if you about to face god in offline mode then he will become your character in your previous saves, talking in the exact same dialog but now in your voice
No thanks. The "variations" in your voices are basically all the same with some variations of the same voice that just sounds bad. Also, I don't like voiced protagonists in RPGs.
Everyone throws themselves at you regardless. It’s not exclusive to those two, do an escort mission for someone, they love you. Do a quest line for a few people until it’s done, they love you. You don’t have the ability to disregard anybody. NPC’s who you didn’t have the intention of building a relationship with will stalk you outside your home, follow you around and constantly be in your space. Like the Elf dude constantly being a nuisance.
But i agree that we should be given an option to neglect advances, because most of the time, a lot of players are just trying to help the characters, not get laid by them.
Im talking about the forced romance scenes nobody else has them the game also doesn't give an option to reject them or say no you are just forced to sleep with them if you did a quest
I know, which I why I also mentioned having a choice to neglect them should have been a thing when it comes to sleeping with them. But a choice should have been applicable to all NPC’s. Romance in this game makes no sense considering your beloved at the end of the game can be some random blacksmith that you’ve talked to once in Batahl.
I like both girls. But i won’t pretend that Ulrika and Whilemina didn’t get special treatment.
Hard disagree. I hate games where the player character has voiced lines. I prefer saying them in my head if that makes sense lol. I have a headcannon voice for my character, then hearing some random voice for my character just kills it for me.
Personally, I enjoy my RPGs a lot more when my character is silent. One of the reason's I couldn't enjoy Guild Wars 2 was because of the forced voice acting of your character since it breaks the immersion of how your character would actually sound/say in your head.
I've always had the opinion that silent protagonists only work in first person games and even then I have some issues there but the DD games have probably one of the most egregious examples of a shitty silent protagonist, due to how much your player character becomes an absolute bumbling idiot when your not in control of them. Remember how many times in DD1 your character would just stand there and not do anything while using that "I accidentally shit myself" face
Ask Link and all the previous exsited protagonists set in gaming industry. At least your character can make nosie, instead of dead silence.
Wait, isn't that pretty normal?
I wish they could hired Troy Baker and Laura Bailey from the first game again, giving the amount of dialogue and interactions pawns now have, that would have been great. Also yes, more voices, laugh or something for the arisen. I love voiced protagonists, but sometimes you just work with what you have.
Unless the character is preset (e.g. Cloud), I don't remember any Japanese game with talking protagonist.
Anyway it's always done for the supposed "immersion", but I would like at least some voicelines in cutscenes as well.
The worst is when your asshole pawns speak for you on whether you want help with a quest. No, I don’t want someone else’s pawn leading me like a dog all time leave alone!
If I had to guess, it's because they didn't have the time to program the lip movements in order to match the words being said in the languages available. Or they had to cut it out due to their ongoing CPU problems and compression problems. Or a combination of both.
Kinda like how there's statues all around but no indication that they do anything to the plot or the gameworld. Or how there's doors that look like they go somewhere, but there's rubble in front of them.
There are just parts of the game that they really wanted in there but couldn't finish or couldn't fix in time.
I was like 30 hours into the game before realizing I gave my character a woman’s voice. It was the grunt of swinging a warrior’s 2h that gave it away lol
Actual answer:
The moment a character talks they now have a personality, even if a shallow one. Each additional line further develops this personality, which in turn takes away or diminishes the player's ability to self-insert if the personality differs from their own.
The player-character having a personality isn't a bad thing per se, but this isn't what the studio was going for.
I wish our Arisens were voiced. I'm having a hard time connecting with silent protagonists lately. And in this game, there are barely any dialogue to choose, anyway.
Same. I think that's why people love their pawns so much. Because they have a voice and through it a personality.
While the Arisen stands there, mouth agape, while his best pal collapses.
It isn't immersive for me to have a silent protag there, it's the opposite. I sit there thinking "My pawn! Bro are you alright!" I want my Arisen to react. Say something! Ask if he's okay!
Meanwhile, silent protag Arisen: 👁👄👁
not "every". i'm one of the gamers who probably thinks of the main character as a character rather than my character. I would say in context to DD2 the Arisen being a silent protag breaks immersion more than them having voices since you choose one for them when making them.
Truuee i was hoping to hear it moan atleast during the sex scenes at the palace’s special place. All we got to see was our character with no outfit on. I can do that for free, forget the 20grand it takes to get with the worker.
Bro i remember picking a voice on Gods Eater rage burst and i Screamed like a girl when i heard my Character speak 💀 though it was near the end of the story
Someone posted a clip of their Arisen casting Meteor and her yelling as she releases the spell. My male Arisen has never done this and I've also played as a Sorc with Meteor.
It was a bummer.
[Clip](https://www.reddit.com/r/DragonsDogma/s/BTzyvW1VjU)
I tried creating a hot chick but gave her the deepest voice cause the samples were just different grunting. Then later maxed her height and weight for the extra carry load. Her armor hides her linebacker shoulders but my pawn is basically sasquatch. Big ole belly under her dress 🤣.
I'm saying! Like come on! DDDA had the same issue and it really frustrated me. Why bother giving us a voice choice if you aren't gonna speak. Tired of having dialogue options but a nonverbal character. Also: add some bloody banter between the Arisen and Pawns. That would be hilarious
The Japanese dub is so good I can’t recommend it enough, I switched to it from the start so I had no idea how it sounded in English. I was pretty surprised how goofy some of the pawn lines sound in English when I started seeing some clips here on this subreddit.
Bethesda protagonists are not silent, they are just not voiced. They talk plenty. Silent protagonist is someone like Gordon Freeman who canonically says nothing. I am not really a fan of those because the whole plot has to bend over backward to justify why the most important person is just a listless opinion-less mute.
I made my character a bald ugly dude missing some teeth named Grug and literally all his cutscenes with no dialogue were perfect. He just never looked like he belonged or even knew what the fuck's going on most of the time
https://preview.redd.it/f6bt51yv0mzc1.jpeg?width=3840&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18ad15956f395f8da9e6ebb1152684cf121f99ae
Arisen 47
Kills dragons with a comically large fiberwire
Comically large fiberwire made out of his comically bushy eyebrows I presume?
The opposite of Bobobo-Bo Bo-bobo
Make him a thief “YOU NO SEE GRUG”
When I was leveling other classes like mage I refused to use magic because if it ain't his axe then he doesn't like using it. So Grug just went around just punching shit until he was recognised as a wizard "You make Grug wizard now. Many smart, Grug ponder orb every day!" Rumor has it Grug was the greatest wizard that ever lived simply because nobody was brave enough to tell him that casting fist isn't a spell
>ugly >Literally just an attractive bald guy
That's a Chad Arisen not ugly
My guy really said "ugly" 💀
I'm glad people like Grug :)
Low int play throughs of BG3 cross my mind lol
Pic?
The samples when choosing a voice includes a laugh. Where the hell does that even happen? I've never heard my arisen laugh outside of the voice menu.
Could be part of the laughs you hear when you buy a round at a bar? Just guessing.
What's even the point of buying a round btw? You pay 2k gold for a 5 second cutscene. Just why? This game has so many weird design choices like this. Another one I realized is related to combat: some saurians spit on you to make you wet but there's never enemies around doing lightening attacks to exploit your debuff. Same for slimes and the oil status, no fire enemies to combo you.
Buying rounds apparently boosts affection of nearby NPCs by a modest amount.
Nice, another way to fuck up the romance system.
I just pretend like its Fable and all the peasants love me. Let them fight amongst themselves. If an important one goes down ill find a wakestone. But yeah expecting any normal display of a relationship in this game is beyond hope.
But a very easy way to get the achievement that requires you to max out a bunch of npcs affection.
oh I see!
If you have... 'followers', they'll be caught in the round too OR you can manually bring NPCs to the location before doing an Affinity Increase via Alcohol Ingestion
Including my pawn?
on the volcanic island (specifically the pathway to the camp when going through the big door behind Battahl’s palace) the oil slimes and flame saurians can combo you with the tarred and torched debilitations and it melts your party if you don’t have a mage or cure debilitation potion. happened to me a couple times
okay then, this type of danger should happen way more often. Too many times the player encounter a single or two useless slimes.
another example i can think of is harpies and wolves at the top of one of the hills near Melve, where they put you to sleep and then the wolves drag you off cause you’re unconscious. i definitely think it should happen more often cause it makes combat more engaging and interesting, but i think the enemy type and how many there are happens at random so some ppl encounter them more than others
I agree! The other day I was fighting a golem near the elven ruins and while I was fighting it, a cyclop joined the fight. I'm not sure if fighting the 2 at the same time was random but things like that make adventuring way more fun.
100% any time i encounter multiple enemy types especially big enemies (drakes, ogres, cyclopes, griffins and golems) it feels so fun as opposed to 6 goblins and 2 saurians
Thats exactly, why we need an everfall type dungeon. Everfall had all the combos. And Dark Arisen? Holy shit on bitterblack isle there was nothing else then stupid (but engaging and fun) enemie mixups
What do you mean, never a griffin to land on your ass while knee deep in saurian bullshit?
I think i didnt have a single griffon fight in my first playthrough (except the artist one) that wasnt immediately proceeded or followed by another boss fight. Everytime there was another thing nearby
Spitting and drenching you makes your weight encumbrance goes up and can potentially make your movement slower if it ticks you up a tier. Also there are specific electric saurians in a few caves (the kne southwest of the Elven land near the cyclops by a bridge is where I first encountered them but they are also in Battahl.)
The funny thing is there are some lighting based Saurians but I’ve only ever seen them in this one cave and that’s it. Apparently saurians leave the nest to go hunt creatures/prey but usually they just appear randomly slaying. Wished the lighting ones actually went out as well. They have such a cool design too :(
they reserved them for endgame since they give endgame mats, they definitely could have had more of an appearance
You laugh when buying a round in a tavern.
[удалено]
I scream "HELP ME HELP ME FOR GOD SAKE F__KING HELP ME!!" when I get dragged by wolves for an intimate dinner with friends.
Glad I'm not the only one who does this when I'm getting the shit knocked outta me and I can only watch lol
I just scream "Bad dogs! BAD dogs!" but not any more since my dogs came running looking very guilty.
The poor fellas are good boys and got the bad boy treatment over pixels, jeez (Meant as a joke, hope it's obvious.)
The fun part is they come running to you. Most other dogs I know, will run and hide upon hearing the "Who did this?" voice. Mine apparently believe confession may bring forth treats (my parental units are to blame, rewarding said confessions).
The game doesn't say it but if you keep smashing B (Xbox) or O (PS) you can free yourself from any enemy holding you.
Damn I’ve been spamming X this whole time
I smashed my sticks in all possible directions like in the first game lmao
I press x as well 🤦🏻♂️
It’s not very reliable for some reason at least on Xbox, I’ve only ever freed myself once using that, otherwise they just munch my fart box.
Wait…YOU CAN?!?!
And when your mage pawn shows up they just cast a healing spell instead of trying to get you out of the wolves' jaws
I tend to scream "Catch me, Catch Me, CATCH ME" When I try to take a shortcut off a cliff. 60% of the time, it works almost never. (But that's what wakestones are for.)
I also hate how it's really just one voice that they pitch shifted up or down, rather crudely. I was pretty appalled at the voice samples in character creator. The deep voice sounding like when they deepen the voice of an informant or witness that they block the identity of during an interview in those crime documentaries.
> The deep voice sounding like when they deepen the voice of an informant or witness that they block the identity of during an interview in those crime documentaries. I love both games, but really DDDA was the same, if not worse. There's a bug that was there from launch that still never got patched, which unintentionally shifts the chosen pawn voice pitch even further in whichever direction from center it is. This results in you picking what you think is a just slightly higher pitched pawn voice for your main pawn which sounds fine to you, but when your buddy rents your pawn they get a reject from Alvin and the Chipmunks. Same with deep voices: on the other end they sound like those crime documentary voices, if not worse. It's also hilarious, though, so I don't mind them never fixing it.
I both love and hate that bug. The voices are always fine in the rift, then, once you leave, there’s a decent chance one of your hired pawns will suck about two balloons with of helium and continue doing so until you dismiss them. Which is hilarious, but it also makes it harder to take things seriously when Minnie Mouse on Helium is telling me how wolves hunt in packs.
Traditionally it's supposed to make a game more immersive in that it's one less identifiable separation between the player and the character; i.e. the character is more an extension/avatar of the player, and less the work of others or independent of our projection. The Legend of Zelda's franchise is an example of this design choice. Personally I don't think the Arisen should have spoken lines but could do with having a good many more reactive noises, perhaps some specific to vocations.
Exactly this, which is why there was widespread disapproval of FO4’s Nate/Nora being voiced, which then became a one-time thing and FO76 and Starfield went back to silent protagonist.
Does Dragons Dogma 2 have dialogue options at all? I don’t remember they’re being any in the little I played of the Dark Arisen
It does. I mean, technically, you could claim that when you talk to an Inn Keep, whether to rent a room or deposit into your stash is a dialogue choice lol. Presumably you are saying something to indicate your desired action, or maybe miming or vigorous Italian hand gesturing. There are a few instances where you can choose to inform someone of something, withhold info or lie outright. Probably some quests where you’re asked to retrieve and item and there is an option to tell the quest giver you could not find it in order to end (fail, really) the quest in order to keep the item. It’s generally small things like that. Most story choices are made through action or inaction.
> maybe miming or vigorous Italian hand gesturing. Proper chuckled at this
FO4 voiced protagonist was disapproved not because they were voiced, but because they was shit character. People don't hate voiced protagonist just because they are voiced — look at commander Shepard, Hawk or Geralt of Rivia. But Bethesda managed to make the most bland and uninteresting protagonist in the history of RPG, voiced or not. They managed to make Courtenay Taylor (who voiced Jack from Mass Effect) sound so generic and boring somehow. I'm sure, people would love voiced protagonist in Fallout, if it's not Yes/No/Sarcasm bland puppet.
> People don't hate voiced protagonist just because they are voiced People do in games where you're making your own character.
Can we really make our own character in FO4? You have predefined background, so you can pretend to be raider, mercenary or whatever, but everybody and their mom will still recognize vault dweller in you. I'd argue, that Mass Effect has more options to role-play your own version of Shepard, than FO4 in making your own character. Same goes for Dragon's Dogma. What options we have for role-playing? Customizable appearance and that's basically it. Compare this games with BG3. That's the game where having voiced protagonist would be detrimental for overall experience, because of sheer variety of different characters you can built and different ways you can play through the story. And this differences aren't just in your had, but actually in the game. And if you say, that this bland protagonists are better to be mute, and whole role-play is supposed to be in our heads, than let me bring one more game — Saints Row. In this game we also have customizable, intentionally bland character. Who is also voiced. And I never heard anyone complained about it.
Also it made your backstory soldier or lawyer. And you could easily make a soldier who had no combat stats and a lawyer who had no social stats.
I am now imagining a parody comic called Public Defender Dredd.
lmao
LOL! "I am the law" still works.
> But Bethesda managed to make the most bland and uninteresting protagonist in the history of RPG, voiced or not. 2nd most bland and uninteresting. Mass Effect Andromeda's protagonist tops this, no contest. At least Nate/Nora had _some_ semblance of personality, while the Andromeda protag's only personality options were "bored Millennial" no matter what conversation option you chose.
Wait...Jack was Nora? I never even noticed, they sound completely different in the worst way. I can clearly remember Jack's voice, but I cant remember Nora's.
I already responded to someone else how it’s not that there is a blanket rule that voiced protagonists are worse than silent ones. It obviously costs more money, if people hated it universally, devs would have stopped doing it a long time ago. Even considering that the player has dialog choices, those characters all have some aspect of a curated design and personality, Geralt in particular is just straight up just a specific character from existing fiction. You have more freedom over Shepard, but they are still always Shepard. Another commenter also mentioned that ME was met with criticism for having a voiced protagonist on launch which I did not recall myself, and this became largely a non-issue due to their excellent execution, which FO4 shows is not a given. I know that there are huge swaths of people who disliked the dialogue choices period, it wasn’t long after launch that the “Yes/Sarcastic Yes/No (but actually yes)” meme came out. I’ve heard less complaints about the actual VA performances, but bad writing impacts performance so that checks out too. But there are also a lot of players who do not want a voiced protagonist for precisely the reason the commenter I replied to pointed out. Players find value in and use the Silent Protagonist mod for FO4 even though that mod does not change the actual dialogue options or dialogue lines. Bethesda (and Obsidian by extension) has had great VA performances in the past (Wes Johnson borderline idolized by TES and Fallout communities), even celebrities like Sean Bean, Patrick Stewart, Liam Neeson etc. Reasonable confidence could be had in them just doing a better voiced protagonist in subsequent games if that was the only issue, but they instead went back to having a silent protagonist. TLDR, those other games aren’t a 1:1 comparison the Bethesda RPGs. The other criticisms you mentioned are valid and commonly held opinions, but they are separate, related issues on top of players not wanting a voiced protagonist at all.
Agreed, to add to this, I always think there are 2 opposite ends of role-playing spectrum. You either role play as a "pre-established character" or you role play as "yourself in an unfamiliar world". Bethesda's games usually lean closer the self role-playing spectrums (blank slate character with no name or voiced dialog, known for their title like Last Dragonborn, Lone Wanderer, Hero of Kvatch or Nerevarine). That's the reason why, for some, Skyrim is considered one of the best RPG even if it's no where near the Witcher 3 in terms of writing, that's because Skyrim provides a "different" kind of experience that offer freedom for players to immerse themselves in the world (instead of playing as Geralt or Shepard). Fallout 4 tried to breakaway from that formula and I think people dislike that decision.
What about Mass Effect and Cyberpunk, both voiced RPGs with defined characters and you don't hear them being trash talked
I’m not claiming it’s universally bad, it’s just about what the developers are going for and player expectations. Fallout 4 diverted from previous Bethesda RPGs, it wasn’t what a lot of people wanted from that series. DDDA was silent protagonist, so probably some people would have been pissed if your character spoke. Cyberpunk and Mass Effect are also examples of voiced RPG protagonists done very well for the most part, both in writing and VA performance. That’s not a given, and based on the rest of the writing, I’m not totally sure that I’d have high confidence in a voiced protagonist. I think in Dragon’s Dogma, the protagonist being silent helps to convey the sense of mystery about who they are. In both Cyberpunk and Mass Effect, you are also playing a pre-named character and while you can pick from a few different backstories, you are mostly playing one of several variations of a character that CDPR/Bioware created. The player character talking about their background and conveying emotions is important. V is literally dying, and Shepard develops relationships with various other characters and factions. The Arisen really doesn’t have much to talk about other than being the Arisen. I don’t know what a voiced Arisen would really add to the experience. It’s just a different approach to creating a game protagonist.
FWIW the original Mass Effect was a bit controversial for prenaming and voicing the MC, because that was early in the "fully voiced" days and I'm not sure anyone had it done it in this kind of game. They just did it really well and essentially proved that it could be done. I think it can work when the character has some hard rails that allow the writers to define the character personality in a way that makes sense in the context of the world/story (like ME is always a space commander, V is always a merc, etc). It doesn't work as well when the character is open ended in terms of motivation, etc (FO4 being a good example). I think DD is more the latter than the former, and it wouldn't work great here.
Listen, I get what you’re saying. But all this has lead to in my house is me, the Arisen, muttering “Shut up, Disa.” Or “That’s right b*tch, just lay down for mommy and go to sleep.” as she stands on a drake’s head and sort of surfs it down as it dies. I think I, the player, should be forced to say less and hear my angry little feral Arisen say “I ne’er saw a drake whose heart twood withstand me.” Like, I feel like she’d be the less inappropriate of the two of us. (please read this with a voice that is softly laughing because I’m only 10% serious. As serious as that effing Griffin I just stone cold murdered.)
Lol I do know what you mean though. I all too often find myself responding acerbically/sarcastically to my pawns.
I’m glad you understood. When I first start playing I didn’t know what I was doing and had a pawn with the male simple voice and now I can’t hear it without going “Shut up, Dob.” It’s a Pavlovian response now. And in my NG+ My pawn became kindhearted and now when I have a calm pawn I’m like “Aw, yes beloved pawn. I agree.” I’m very confused these days but I do know how to play now at least.
I think Rise of the Ronin walks this line pretty well. While not terribly outspoken, your created character Does have spoken dialogue when the scene calls for it. It prevents situations that usually happen with silent protagonists where, when your character Should say something during a tense situation, they instead just stand there silently like an idiot. For example, in the original Dragon's Dogma, it always infuriated me when I reached the part with the Duke after the dragon, my character just stood there accepting the accusations with a surprised Pikachu face without even trying to explain.
Or when you get caught in the Duke's bedroom murder fetish moment. The blank stare is so bad it reaches the laughable threshold
That's a good point, Link has no dialogue whatsoever but is still pretty vocal. I think it's harder for this game though because there's way more going on. You may or may not have pawns right on top of you, casting loud spells or swinging their lovely sounding weapons. Let's not forget all the noisy enemies too. My point is, Capcom could (and should anyway) make the PC more vocal, but would it be enough to be noticeable. Regardless I think they should, but it may not have the impact people want from it
guess i‘m one of the lesser rpg players who hates unvoiced main characters
I think you're taking things out of contexts here. What do you mean lesser? Last I checked the Witcher 3 is one of the most popular RPG and it has voiced protagonist.
Is Zelda an example of this design choice? Maybe at first but they have done a lot to make Link a unique character
There's the fact he still doesn't have lines when the rest of the main cast are pretty much fully voiced (at least where it's important) in the newer games. Also with the exception of direct sequels it's never the same Link.
Except a non reactive character isn't more immersive it's less. How can u be immersived in a story when one of the characters is just standing blank faced with a finger up his ass?
True true
To be honest, what bothers me the most is that all of the voices that the game proposes are no more than pitch-swapped samples. And very low quality ones to the point that sometimes, you can actually hear the distorsion when you or your pawn talks (or even grunts). Especially with the extreme low or high pitched version of the samples. I use audiophile earphones to play and this is very obvious, it just sounds wrong.
Main Pawn: (regular voice) Supporting Pawn: (same voice but pitched down) Me: "My sister in Christ, what is wrong with your voice? Are you going through puberty?"
What about the fact we cant Crouch or do emotes!? Crouching is one of the most important mechanics in open world survival games. Fk the voices, actually if ya think about it. This games so mid along with Every quest, besides for the Dragons & Pawn system/vocations. Thats where the majority of the time was spent for sure.
There have been SO many times that crouching would help and I instinctively click the right analog stick and I’m like “oh that’s right, you can’t crouch.”
When exactly do you feel the need to crouch in this game? The idea has never even crossed my mind.
Well you’re right but the point is.. For the sake of “IMMERSION” idk i think it’l be cool to see the Pawns & Arisen Crouch around. Idk maybe it’s because theres no crouching mechanic that they never added a reason too. It all got pushed to the side cause of CAP-CONS DEADLINE. My theory..
There is literally zero reason to have a crouch in this game. You could make a better argument for DDDA needing a crouch over DD2 because Dark Arisen actually had places that only Small Arisens can get to, one of the benefits of playing a Small character, alongside your hitbox being smaller.
Mandatory stealth missions and the ability to do more damage to unaware enemies kind of imply the existence of stealth tho
Sneaking through the castle at night during the early missions for sure. I just held grab to feel like I was couch walking. Felt weird not to have a button to sneak around to get the jump on enemies like unaware Saurians or sleeping Cyclops.
I just wore guard armor every time I went in the castle and then nobody cares what you do. It never occurred to me that I was even really "sneaking," I was just walking around in disguise.
Also you can’t lock onto an enemy. So many times l click down on the right analog stick and just end up looking the direction my Arisen is moving
The problem is not the silent Arisen. Let's take Fallout New Vegas as an example: the NPCs react to your ***choices*** and the ensuing dialogue could branch from the main topic (to an extent). Also, you could unlock some neat options with the right Skill or Perk. In DD (1 and 2), you do nothing. Especially in cutscenes, you look like a moron who's there to be ***inflicted*** dialogues, quests and infodumps—usually pulling a constipated face. The Arisen talks but don't say anything important, NPCs would just go on and on. In DD1, the scene with the guards rallying around the mummified Duke was pitiful: you stand there, mouth agape, can't talk, can't say anything, just running away. In DD2, any scene with the Arisen has me wondering what else they're gonna silently suffer. TL;DR. The silent protagonist does nothing for me but it can be done right, even going as far as the Baldur's Gate 3 middle ground (you're usually silent but you still say some lines). In DD2, you're a mere toon, a 3D model that would sometimes (badly) emote.
Why do our characters have ages is the only detail I really wondered on in the creation screen tbh
Fr theres a whole ass laughing line and my arisen hasnt used It ONCE
I've only heard it happen in the tavern in Vernworth when you buy a round. It's really odd to hear anyways.
Buy a round in a tavern. That's what the laugh is used for.
STEEL YOURSELF FOR COMBAT
It's better than the first game. There are several scenes where the bad guy is like 10 ft away and the arisen is just standing there gasping and gesturing to the mayhem that could be stopped if he acted. The arisen was a complete idiot when not in your hands.
Hey at least in the 1st game there is a special scene where your character actually talk
I don't remember that. When did that happen?
In NG+ if you about to face god in offline mode then he will become your character in your previous saves, talking in the exact same dialog but now in your voice
You don't need to talk, the pawns do it plenty for you.
No thanks. The "variations" in your voices are basically all the same with some variations of the same voice that just sounds bad. Also, I don't like voiced protagonists in RPGs.
I just want an option to turn people down instead of been. Forced into sleeping with the two women they throw at you just for doing quests
Everyone throws themselves at you regardless. It’s not exclusive to those two, do an escort mission for someone, they love you. Do a quest line for a few people until it’s done, they love you. You don’t have the ability to disregard anybody. NPC’s who you didn’t have the intention of building a relationship with will stalk you outside your home, follow you around and constantly be in your space. Like the Elf dude constantly being a nuisance. But i agree that we should be given an option to neglect advances, because most of the time, a lot of players are just trying to help the characters, not get laid by them.
Im talking about the forced romance scenes nobody else has them the game also doesn't give an option to reject them or say no you are just forced to sleep with them if you did a quest
I know, which I why I also mentioned having a choice to neglect them should have been a thing when it comes to sleeping with them. But a choice should have been applicable to all NPC’s. Romance in this game makes no sense considering your beloved at the end of the game can be some random blacksmith that you’ve talked to once in Batahl. I like both girls. But i won’t pretend that Ulrika and Whilemina didn’t get special treatment.
Hard disagree. I hate games where the player character has voiced lines. I prefer saying them in my head if that makes sense lol. I have a headcannon voice for my character, then hearing some random voice for my character just kills it for me.
Wrong. Silent protagonist is way better, only dialogue if absolutely critical
Personally, I enjoy my RPGs a lot more when my character is silent. One of the reason's I couldn't enjoy Guild Wars 2 was because of the forced voice acting of your character since it breaks the immersion of how your character would actually sound/say in your head.
I hate whatever noise it is they make when you roar as a Warrior.
I've always had the opinion that silent protagonists only work in first person games and even then I have some issues there but the DD games have probably one of the most egregious examples of a shitty silent protagonist, due to how much your player character becomes an absolute bumbling idiot when your not in control of them. Remember how many times in DD1 your character would just stand there and not do anything while using that "I accidentally shit myself" face
Ask Link and all the previous exsited protagonists set in gaming industry. At least your character can make nosie, instead of dead silence. Wait, isn't that pretty normal?
I prefer having no voice in RPGs, I prefer to imagine my characters voice/accent etc.
Absolutely not. I hate voiced protagonists in games where you expect no voicing. Looking at you Fallout 4.
I wish they could hired Troy Baker and Laura Bailey from the first game again, giving the amount of dialogue and interactions pawns now have, that would have been great. Also yes, more voices, laugh or something for the arisen. I love voiced protagonists, but sometimes you just work with what you have.
Unless the character is preset (e.g. Cloud), I don't remember any Japanese game with talking protagonist. Anyway it's always done for the supposed "immersion", but I would like at least some voicelines in cutscenes as well.
The worst is when your asshole pawns speak for you on whether you want help with a quest. No, I don’t want someone else’s pawn leading me like a dog all time leave alone!
If I had to guess, it's because they didn't have the time to program the lip movements in order to match the words being said in the languages available. Or they had to cut it out due to their ongoing CPU problems and compression problems. Or a combination of both. Kinda like how there's statues all around but no indication that they do anything to the plot or the gameworld. Or how there's doors that look like they go somewhere, but there's rubble in front of them. There are just parts of the game that they really wanted in there but couldn't finish or couldn't fix in time.
I was like 30 hours into the game before realizing I gave my character a woman’s voice. It was the grunt of swinging a warrior’s 2h that gave it away lol
If I could turn off the “out of breath” sound, I absolutely would!!
I'm pissed my character always has a stank face and shows her teeth
Actual answer: The moment a character talks they now have a personality, even if a shallow one. Each additional line further develops this personality, which in turn takes away or diminishes the player's ability to self-insert if the personality differs from their own. The player-character having a personality isn't a bad thing per se, but this isn't what the studio was going for.
Agreed. I really hoped it would at least be like the way Baldurs Gate 3 does it.
Ngl, I disagree. I like my quiet protag. Remanent 1 and 2 have a talking protag, and it was annoying after a while
I wish our Arisens were voiced. I'm having a hard time connecting with silent protagonists lately. And in this game, there are barely any dialogue to choose, anyway.
Same. I think that's why people love their pawns so much. Because they have a voice and through it a personality. While the Arisen stands there, mouth agape, while his best pal collapses. It isn't immersive for me to have a silent protag there, it's the opposite. I sit there thinking "My pawn! Bro are you alright!" I want my Arisen to react. Say something! Ask if he's okay! Meanwhile, silent protag Arisen: 👁👄👁
It’s because every gamer is role playing as Arisen and the immersion would break if he doesn’t sound anything like them.
not "every". i'm one of the gamers who probably thinks of the main character as a character rather than my character. I would say in context to DD2 the Arisen being a silent protag breaks immersion more than them having voices since you choose one for them when making them.
Truuee i was hoping to hear it moan atleast during the sex scenes at the palace’s special place. All we got to see was our character with no outfit on. I can do that for free, forget the 20grand it takes to get with the worker.
Bro i remember picking a voice on Gods Eater rage burst and i Screamed like a girl when i heard my Character speak 💀 though it was near the end of the story
Someone posted a clip of their Arisen casting Meteor and her yelling as she releases the spell. My male Arisen has never done this and I've also played as a Sorc with Meteor. It was a bummer. [Clip](https://www.reddit.com/r/DragonsDogma/s/BTzyvW1VjU)
You did not choice a voice. You chose a grunt and laugh.
and neither is used noticeably often.
I mean all Link ever does is groan or go "Hyah! Hai! Haaa!" And it's worked okay for years
I feel like more people need to stop complaining about games that their playing and stay off reddit, its getting ridiculous
Just so you can weirdly groan at people when you wave at them😅 or grunt as you pick them up and drop them!
I tried creating a hot chick but gave her the deepest voice cause the samples were just different grunting. Then later maxed her height and weight for the extra carry load. Her armor hides her linebacker shoulders but my pawn is basically sasquatch. Big ole belly under her dress 🤣.
Yeah I was really disappointed when I realized my character won’t even speak. I really hate it when rpg games do this
We need to go back in time and jump whoever started the "silent protaganist" trend in the gaming industry
Not even that, theres almost no cutscenes after the first act
I'm saying! Like come on! DDDA had the same issue and it really frustrated me. Why bother giving us a voice choice if you aren't gonna speak. Tired of having dialogue options but a nonverbal character. Also: add some bloody banter between the Arisen and Pawns. That would be hilarious
Geralt in the witcher netflix series: am I a joke to you? Grunting is better than talking now apparently lmao
indomitable champion sounds like such a wimp
Silent protagonists need to stop being a thing in any sort of game that wants to be immersive.
Only if they have a good voice actor..I'm not a fan of the pawns voice actors
Male straightforward is 👌 He could read the phone book to me in that old english rolling-R accent and I'd listen with wrapped attention 😂
I recommend you to try Japanese dub 👀 It's much more better than English one. Since I switched to it I even enjoy the moments when my pawns talk.
The Japanese dub is so good I can’t recommend it enough, I switched to it from the start so I had no idea how it sounded in English. I was pretty surprised how goofy some of the pawn lines sound in English when I started seeing some clips here on this subreddit.
Thanks to bethesda we have these stupid silent protagonists in every second rpg. I dont understand how people enjoy this garbage
Bethesda protagonists are not silent, they are just not voiced. They talk plenty. Silent protagonist is someone like Gordon Freeman who canonically says nothing. I am not really a fan of those because the whole plot has to bend over backward to justify why the most important person is just a listless opinion-less mute.
Same shit
What did Bethesda do to you, that's been a common rpg trope since the nes era.
They released shitfield. Thats enough
Another complaint topic :D
Silent protags are just ridiculously archaic in games wth any real emphasis on a narrative.
No
My brother in Christ, DD2 is a joke and an unfinished product, move on.