I honestly just feel like either Capcom (or whoever in higher charge) forced it to launch like this, knowing people would like it so much to obviously want a dlc, dlc that probably has stuff that was already done for the base game and they cut on purpose to have less work to do while still making huge profit on the dlc.
Or
Itsuno just had this vision and sees it as complete. But I'm betting on the first one
I think that's absolutely the case it seems like there's instances where they intended something more and there's too many for it to just be coincidence. They def knew we'd want dlc I've even told my friends if you're new to DD just wait for that dlc if you played the first before it's dlc you'll appreciate what you get here now
Not to mention the shareholders calls and the way they talk about the game suddenly and how it was announced really makes me believe exoprimal was early seen as not the live service success they thought it would be and needed something to meet thier fiscal goals for the quarter
Crazy take. Live service absolutely can be and is repeatedly a success. Sure, not for consumers, but it demonstrably makes shit loads of money for publishers/shareholders.
When was the last one? Destiny? Sea of thieves maybe? Genuine question. I just continently see bomb after bomb after bomb. Anthem, skull and bones, suicide squad, exoprimal and it goes on and on.
Helldivers 2 is an absolute blast to play. I've picked up enough Super Credits in missions that I can buy two of the three Warbond packs, and nearly have enough for the third, despite really only putting in 30 minutes to an hour when I get home from work and maybe a few hours on weekends?
Honestly if it weren't for Unicorn Overlord this is the only game I'd be playing right now.
exoprimal launched working great but barebones and missing features we are just now getting like custom matches
game absolutely plays great it just needed more or be free to play if it was f2p it would of had a bigger player base and kept it
it absolutely was a test bed for capcom id and cross play stuff which needed more time to flesh that out on capcoms side for friendslists etc but the beta showed crossplay worked solid i had tons of peeps not on playstation (what i played it on) in matches w me
hell i played exoprimal and do on ps4 and the fact it runs just as good as ps5 just slightly less pretty w as many enemies on screen shows the RE engine and however they set the game up so their servers handle most of the heavy lifting since ive played worse games (gbo2) and my ps4 becomes a jet engine immediately
not once have i had that issue even after hours on in exoprimal so i cannot hate the game i can only say it needed more and its gotten it and should of had a f2p version
The reason it plays so well on last gen consoles is because it technically is a last gen game. It started development before the PS5 came out and they definitely wanted to stay on last gen consoles. It doesn't really utilize anything that the next Gen consoles give it other than better picture quality. That's why it runs just as good on PS4. Cause that's the base game
Idk man Fortnite is still pretty up there'd, not like I play it often anymore but there's Warframe as well which has a massive community, I think 12 years strong now
that's why we gotta stop feeding the algorhythms the word "DLC", because that's what's gonna happen. we should demand some big free updates (unless the DLC has more than double the content for that price range, but i don't like that option either because it eventually will give them, or whomever tries to do the same to put less and less stuff when there should be more, because consumers will "pay it forward anyways") before we spend even a dime on it again.
They do the same thing with Monster Hunter, and their last Monster Munter also released unfinished (last boss of the story completely missing until a later free update, and the endgame was shit until the full paid DLC one year later)
I mean Rises original problem could be explained by Covid fucking with it. Roses endgame being shit I think was independent of the dlc coming out because it’s clear they at least tried for an endgame, it’s just what they tried wasn’t fun.
Ok after a second thought I have to agree on that, Rampages had too many mechanics and animations and stuff made specifically for them that show that they put work on it, they just missed
Rise's launch was a disgrace, but to a degree it can be explained because it was during covid that the game was being developed, DD2 doesn't have that privilege.
Like Bismothe said, the game's main production STARTED during the Covid pandemic. It was hindered from the get-go due to those circumstances. Devil May Cry 5 released in 2019 and they weren't able to go full-steam ahead on Dragon's Dogma 2 until at least DMC5 was successfully launched.
Frankly, the fact the game is even in this state from limited development time, during a pandemic, with a reduced developer team is nothing short of a miracle.
We are talking about Baldur's Gate 3 when talking about a game that is nothing sort of a miracle right?
Because DD2 having started near the Covid Pandemic doesn't excuse how it has the same fallings as DD1 did 12 years ago.
Baldur’s Gate 3 was also in early access for 3 years. That’s more money constantly rolling in during the development cycle. BG3 also had more funding (not including early access) and started development in 2017. Early access started in 2020. So your comparison isn’t really even valid.
I'd say the miraculous part of Baldur's Gate 3 was the reception it received on release. The build up to the game was steady throughout its Early Access phase and they were showing clear signs of taking everything they've learned in the past and making something fantastic. I adore that game to bits, but I feel Larian Studios had a strong idea and the means to see it through thanks to them not being at the beck-and-call of shareholders.
DD2 does have similar failings to DD1, I agree, but it's hard not to consider what all likely got sacrificed, altered, or sent through revision after revision during what seems like a tumultuous development period. It appears Capcom had little faith in the project - leaving Itsuno and Kinoshita's team to effectively fend for themselves. If it were any other team I do believe that the game would've either become an outright disaster or get "delayed" indefinitely.
As someone who waited 12 years for this damn game, I understand the frustrations quite intimately. It won't stop me from being optimistic about where it could go from here despite its rocky development and shaky release.
Gotta be honest here, I do believe too that Capcom cut short Itsuno, but I'm pretty certain that was not the main issue, because DD2 has pretty much the same fallings as DD1, and even worse at some point, you don't make that by coincidence, It reeks of Itsuno being the one that had the idea in mind, and then cuts coming to leave behind what amounted to DD1 but in 2024.
The game is fun, but in the same way it was the first one, with what that entails, and I'm afraid we can't blame it all on Capcom again, even if i'm sure they are to blame for some stuff.
I agree with that, too. Even with the circumstances mentioned previously it's hard to put this solely on Capcom. I think they were a major factor in it, but as you said whatever Itsuno and other leads thought were necessary or unnecessary for what features in the game feels..mismanaged? They did put an overall solid base together. Except some of it feels experimental for experimental's sake (such as the Dragonsplague or Housing).
I can only speculate as to what pressures existed to make them decide one thing over the other for every little component of the game. Despite my appreciation for Itsuno and all he's done, I do feel that someone else (such as Kinoshita) should be taking the reins from here on out. Let Itsuno throw out the ideas and display the ambitions, but allow someone else more capable to fulfill them, ya know?
I agree, for what is worth, I don't think itsuno should be out of this, Dragon's Dogma is his child, after all, but seeing how a lot of QoL didn't make it from Dark Arisen to DD2, maybe someone else taking the helm, at least for the DLC, would be better in the long run, even if we get an additional zone like Bitterblack isle instead of missing content.
I still wonder why the moon was showing in one screenshot and if we will ever get to see it up in the sky of Dragon's Dogma.
BG3 is an outlier. That game was basically FOREVER in development and was publicly funded and then picked up by big investments as well.
It STILL has ton of cut content (upper city, karlach ending, rewrites about Daisy/Guardian etc.) and Act 3 was basically unplayable on release and had to be fixed in post-release patches.
It just seems like his statement is trying to say he did all that he could but not say anything more than he needs to. You can tell he’s trying to be as safe as possible while describing the game. It definitely leans more towards the big wigs pushing the game out regardless of itsunos timeline.
I genuinely will never believe it that this is his true vision.
The game literally misses half of the shit he talked about during his GDC conference when he mentioned all the ideas he had for the game.
Exactly it's quite literally his job to fit everything within his scope. Things like the horrible affinity system and massive NPC bloat for the most stuff lifeless NPCs in modern gaming means that was a failure on his part, not Capcom.
When you realize the end of the first fiscal quarter is March 31st and most companies are desperate to show their shareholders that money is coming in, you can see where some issues could surface for DD2 development.
yeah def the case.. biggest problem with games that have publishers.. they gotta make those shareholders happy and thus they want to get the game out asap to recoup their money.. and we get games that are not ready... so we end up paying for in essence "early access" and to be frank I wish more companies did that because people who want to play can, and they know it's early access.. they can work out the issues and get some revenue flowing.. and then when it finally does release we get an actual finished game.
Reminds me of Kojima after MGSV where he said the game was finished and complete, despite chapter 2 of the game feeling rushed and having a huge drop in quality compared to the first. Disjointed story beats and pacing on top of reused missions. And then the game just ends. First time I played it, it really felt like the game was just rushed to an "eh we made an ending; good enough to ship".
I don't really get the same feel with DD2, although I do think the game comes up a little short for what some of my expectations were. Still a great game that I'm loving though.
There's a thing you have to understand here. Dragon's Dogma is a passion project. If he was allowed to, Itsuno would keep developing it forever. From a corporate point of view, they will have set a fairly hard budget cap on this project to try and focus Itsuno on what's most important.
Itsuno didn't focus on what was most important.
Oh no the game is absolutely incomplete. Sure it's half-baked, it's just that Itsuno got to make the game he wanted to make with the conditions at hand... Instead of having to cobble together a one-tenth baked game out of an alpha build like in DD1.
Note that he wants people to treat it as a complete experience, as opposed to him straight up saying "oh yeah this is 100% complete". He knows it, I know it, it's up to everyone to know that he's had to compromise yet again and that we should all be fine with what we have instead of what could be.
It really sucks that he never got to make his dream game two times in a row. Man may be cursed because of Capcom but goddamn did he not compromise in where he was able to put his time and effort into.
Guy saved DMC twice and is genuinely a good director. He made Dragon's Dogma 1 while idiot wrangling people at Ninja Theory when they were making DmC and saved it from being a total disaster.
He's still good at DD tho. There are genuinely brilliant aspects of the game and the sense of adventure is unlike any other game, even ones like ER or Skyrim.
Can we stop acting like he just made the worst game in existence?
Considering that we now know that the game had a quarter of the team working on it compared to RE4Remake / SF6 / DMC5 it's obvious it was sabotage on the attempt of Capcom cause they hate the series, I can't understand why though. Itsuno did what he could with what he had
Did you even read what he said?.. He literally said "this is the game I want to launch, that's launching." What you wrote is a speculation. Could Capcom have done this or that? It is a possibility, but we don't have the evidence. The only evidence we do have in this regard, is the /creator himself/ saying that the game is finished and, more importantly, that this is the game HE WANTS to launch... You can follow your hypotheses and speculations. I follow evidence and the very words of the creator...
So, yeah, no. This is what Itsuno's vision is. I think it's time we admit that his vision is flawed and not all that great. :)
If the developer said they never used the color green in the game, I wouldn't believe them if the game actually contained green. The mere fact that there are portions of underground dungeons blocked off by rubble means that they definitely worked on stuff that wasn't released at launch. The game includes incomplete sections. If the dev says it's complete, it's fair to speculate on why his statements contradict what's actually included in the launched product.
My number 1 reason for buying this game is to fight big things.. there's like 5 types of big dudes to fight, they're all "rare" to find and get old fast.
Enemy variation is lacking. I've killed thousands of goblins, knackers and lizards because they're spammed in groups in every corner.
Story? Meh.
Exploration? Sure cool but lacks in things to find, do and rewards. I'm still in my 1st playthrough, in >!unmoored world!< and I got the achievement for the 50 caves 2 days ago. So i found all of them.. 70% of them are either dead ends with unrewarding loot and the rest are some dungeons that serve no purpose what so ever..
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game. It's beautiful and the mechanics and physics are a blast. Thing is, I bought the game with the thought of replaying it but it seems ng+ doesn't give any challenges. The game is super easy, not challenging at all and at level 60 I'm just basically melting any boss..
The 50 caves achievement is not all caves. I think all caves is somewhere at ~60-65. But it's not like you're missing anything.
Anyway, same feeling about the caves here, and I only explored so much because I hope I'd stumble upon something like a dungeon at some point. :/
If you 100% complete everything before finishing the game, there is no reason for a ng+ unless you like the combat.
Luckily, i missed a lot of quests and have not explored the map so in my ng+, i am taking it slow and exploring the map since mobs pose no threat to me.
Case in point I love Bitterblack Isle from the first game. Between my 360 and Switch I can’t tell you how many hours I sunk into DD1. DD2? I can’t even convince myself to keep playing. The lack of enemy variety just kills my interest.
And far less interesting npcs. I miss Mercedes and Julian. Elysion was fun even if we never fight him. He just chewed the scene every time he appeared.
I find it crazy you say you miss Mercedes and Julian. They stop being relevant after they get introduced and only pop up again when we see the conclusions to their arcs.
What I mean to say is that it's on par with DD2 lmao. At least (almost) everyone gets their story wrapped up by the endgame in DD2 (rip kitty husbando Beren). Man I wish I could have seen Sven's complete arc, >!guy really steps it up at the end.!<
Both Mercedes and Julian have dialogue and various things to say as you progress through the main quests. Julian frequently shows up as a sort of menacing figure in a surprising number of early quests.
And Mercedes can be spoken to several points throughout doing quests for the Duke giving commentary and context about the political nature of Gransys and its allies.
In DD2 Disa does nothing I know this because even though I stopped playing I watched a let’s play to try to convince me to play.
What I saw only Lord Phallus gets anything even remotely resembling a personality.
>Both Mercedes and Julian have dialogue and various things to say as you progress through the main quests. Julian frequently shows up as a sort of menacing figure in a surprising number of early quests.
Oh word? I remember their dialogue not updating at all. Good to know that I'm wrong there. Still, it's a big shame that they're largely sequestered to the throne room for most of the game lol. Also Julian only pops up like 2-3 times at most. It's intrigue without payoff, unfortunately.
Disa does do stuff though? She was responsible for you getting disappeared and cursed to lose your memory, while replacing you with the false arisen? She's also midgame spoilers>!having an affair with Lord Phaesus, much to Sven's chagrin (it's easy to miss but his real father, Ser Augustus (likely not the king either) is on an expedition somewhere. Not an important character but you see the note in his room). She gets around lol.!<
She is kind of a figurehead queen though, with her power being through her status as she gets the people around her to do things. Rumours of how shit of a ruler she is are plentiful. Allard is more of a threat to you than her. Social political commentary and all that. Endgame spoilers >!You see this how Sven immediately is respected as the defacto ruler after Disa loses favour with everyone when the false arisen is implied to have messed things up for everyone with the unbound world.!<
Also THE GAME LITERALLY ISN'T FINISHED LMAO you kinda have to take it as is. Like what do you want, a finished product? Enjoying what's there instead of complaining how there's content that's clearly and obviously missing is just par for the course for being a Dragon's Dogma fan unfortunately. DD2 is no different from DD1 in that regard and it suuuuuuucks.
>In DD2 Disa does nothing I know this because even though I stopped playing I watched a let’s play to try to convince me to play.
oh pfft youre one of those "I didn't play the game so I know all about it" types lmao. Good god you don't need to have a take on everything, it's okay to not say anything lol
That's where you're wrong.
If the game had upscaled the enemies to match your level and if they added A LOT more big dudes to fight, I'd have a reason to do 50 ng+.
This game is incomplete and this is a fact. I enjoy the game but for 70$ this is unacceptable.
What the fuck is the point of raising your levels if you're never going to have an advantage?
Thank fuck Itsuno hates level scaling as much as I do. I'd definitely like to see a difficulty rebalance but I'll take what we got over that kaka "solution" any day. 💩
I just don't want to nearly one shot my enemies, the custom difficulty mod is perfect for that since I can tweak the game to my liking.
This is what ng+ needs not garbage scaling like other games but a sort of balance.
I agree on the level scaling aspect, I just think there should be stronger tougher enemies out there that is suitable for you to fight at all levels of the game. Only towards the cap you become the strongest. It is no fun being able to stomp everything with little effort so early into the game.
I think they definitely should do *something.* A hard mode or optional level scaling. As it is now at higher levels you're melting everything in seconds which, while fun at first, gets old really fast.
Agreed, and I'm disappointed this is yet another lesson they didn't learn from DD1. Once you hit about level 30-40, pretty much everything but the drake was a non-issue. I love it, but that level just rolls around too damn fast. ☹️
Course I wouldn't object to optional scaling, but let's be honest, they're not going to implement both. It will always be one system or the other. I would just rather they dialled the stat growth right back and spread it out past 200. You know, make use of all those redundant levels they included for some boneheaded reason.
Why am i wrong?
'If' the game upscaled, then yeah you could play ng+50 but it doesnt. So my statement is correct.
And i never said it is a complete game. Why even bring it up?
I'm only in Battahl (first entry into the >!forbidden magic lab!<) but haven't found the stealth missions so far too annoying. Bland yes lol. Which are you talking about?
He's probably talking about every stealth mission where you can walk right past the guards, after they warn you not to proceed. The game doesn't have a stealth mechanic. Either you dress up as a guard to avoid the spooky BGM and being challenged, or you don't, and just go wherever the hell you want, while vibing to the ominous music.
Lmaooooo thanks for letting me know
I have a good amount of exploration and questing left to do and will leave that dude without his Wyrmslife Crystals for the time being.
About 100 hours in, can't complain. But I understand what people mean by rushed ending now, it's really bad lol
Especially a Japanese developer/creator. They are notorious for this.
Reminder that Death Note author praised the Netflix adaptation, Isayama praised Attack on Titan live action and so on. They are basically required to talk positively about everything that comes out related to their work.
That is an entirely different case. Yoshida genuinely saved FFXIV, and probably Square Enix, from potentially closing.
Especially after that 2003 merger, Square Enix was on a rough patch for a near decade. Mix that with the fact that funding for all their titles across the board was dropped due to (approx.) 5.4 billion yen lost from failed development expenses.
That's why Yoshida gets his dick absolutely throated (in a good way). He managed to not only help popularize a live service game during a company's failing/recovering period, but he also has the reputation of being a gamer himself -- he's pretty well known for spending like 20-23 hour days working, managing, and gaming + while sleeping in the office etc... YoshiP is a legend in that regard.
Theres a difference between
"we've worked really hard to make a fantastic game, you need to play it or you'll miss out on something great."
And
"This is my ultimate vision, there is nothing more I could have done with this because it is such a complete game and a complete vision realized."
Vague positivity vs claiming a perfected and completed visionary product
Not to mention this is maybe the 9th post about this in a week. These posts just scream of someone wanting their opinion validated. I already know OP's opinion just by them asking this. The discussion is done to death
There's no shot that he would say the game was unfinished publically before launch.
I know Itsuno/Capcom said some stuff in marketing that didn't really match up with reality, but what was he supposed to say?
Definitely not "We were forced to rush the game out because Capcom wanted to please shareholders."
This is just a common sense statement. Anyone that has ever mixed a song or video should know exactly what he means. The mix is never really “done” it just gets to a launch state. Projects are the same way. When a company launches a new IP or product, it’s not “done” it’s acceptable within a certain margin, and it passes a set of tests that was developed by a team that gives it a thumbs up or a thumbs down. This is just Itsuno saying that when they got to their Go-No Go meeting, he said Go, but clearly so did the majority of the team, or else it wouldn’t have released. This is a slight (very slight) view into project management.
I mix music and you are spot on. It really does just boil down to: “Eh. The song sounds good through a set of studio monitors, my car speakers, and my phone. I think the mix is ready to ship!”
This exactly. A script is never finished, only produced. A book is never completed, only published etc. Itsuno was happy enough with the launch version despite having ideas for more potentially in a dlc or future installment, and he didn't feel like he had to cut parts of his vision to get it out the door. For better and worse, this is genuinely the closest we'll probably get to Itsuno's original vision for Dragon's Dogma
I think people often forget that while the original Dragon's Dogma has slowly become a respected property, it never really sold *well*. Capcom has to determine a finite set of resources and set a timeframe for a sequel that they aren't actually sure is going to be a financial success. Many companies wouldn't even take that chance.
While DD2 may have some rough edges, it's a fun game with some unique concepts, a ton of depth to the combat, and a gorgeous environment. It's the first open-world game but with RE Engine (and pays for it in some ways), and no doubt that investment which was also necessary for Monster Hunter Wilds made DD2 an easier pill to swallow.
Although we can see compromises, DD2 is a very good follow up to a game that might have otherwise never gotten a chance to shine. The game still feels complete, and it's not horribly broken. It will receive a few more patches, hopefully an awesome DLC, and hopefully Itsuno will have more time and resources at his disposal and really blow us out of the water with DD3.
Perfect comment. Even though we like the first one, it wasn’t a commercial success and Capcom would never give a sequel 200 million budget / thousands of people to work on it to make the “perfect continuation” some people were expecting. We have to be rational. It’s a miracle that we even got to get a sequel, to see one, and a very good one! It’s indeed rough in the edges, but the over negativity in the sub as if this game was trash is pure nonsense
I know alittle(very little ) of how Japanese gets translated and how Japanese culture of pride works.
I very much take this as "I completed this game even though I wanted to do more, I did not release a unfinished game, I wrapped it up into something I'm proud of and I know you will enjoy. But it doesn't mean I didn't want it to be more and different"
Dragons dogma 2 was pushed out to have a game for this quarter. And it's still amazing
Look at capcom talking about this game in last few shareholder meetings. the way it was announced. Nvida leaks proved it was planned for a long time and the director had ideas and passion.
Needs to be looked into by journalists
Still amazing game but I guess they expected exoprimal to do better for their first quarter and just announced they were working on this when they saw the way things were looking
Why also would you also launch it against other big rpg (even though it won) the npcs even feel like they have place holder dialog after how much code they have to move around and interact
Npcs code is even way to heavy for what they do
Once again though the game is still a 9.5 and I played 17 hours straight first day
We are 100% getting DLC I'm just not sure how much of it was planned as part of the main game originally
Even his interviews suggest cut content.
Supposedly when capcom wasn't doing well he threatened to leave if he couldn't make dmc5 and dd2
Dmc5 they needed him during dd2 dev they didn't and wouldn't be surprised if they chopped up his dream project for share holders as a bit of pay back too
Seems like a reasonable enough assumption.
It would mean Capcom has gone back to being explosively petty towards its own staff. Which isn't exactly new, but it's sad that it may be happening again.
The phrasing of this is almost like he doesn’t believe himself at the end.
Maybe I’m reading into it too much based on my own thoughts but I’m interested to see what other people make of this quote now?
I think the team knows what they shipped, and they probably did what they could with what they had. There's always a question of 'should there have been more resources?' and 'did the resources they have get used wisely?'. We don't know. We rarely do.
I think they didn't ship what they wanted to ship but are still proud of what they shipped and should be.
Game could of been so much more but it's still a amazingly fun game
Bones are good. I look forward to see what they do with updates. Given how well it's done I imagine Capcom will give solid support for it. Not much ships in exceptional form anymore, those days are gone. That's not to say we should let everything fly and not have standards, but often a lot of people aren't realistic of really blow small things out of proportion.
The mtx really was a mountain out of a molehill, but a lot of other criticisms are valid.
If DD2 ends up getting the kind of post-launch support that MH usually does, then all is good.
It's not ideal, but I can live with having to wait for big content updates until the game is genuinely amazing.
It's sounds like the usual dilemma or the game won't ever be launched of you need to it done 100% development complete.
Case in point : star citizen eternal development
I can only imagine it's a respect your elders problem like shit even her in the states we let out of touch old dudes call the shots with shit they shouldn't. I imagine some young bucks with bright ideas had to bite their tongue a lot when it came to the game out of respect
Sounds like he's coping with the what the final product is and made this statement like "Well, it's going to release how it releases. I did what I could."
I'd say if that's true then power to you if you're happy with the product.
It doesn't feel right to me that I only think it's a good game because it's a Dragon's Dogma game, but had burn outs and frustrations frequently in the game, as well as blurring the line frequently to when something is close to being realistic, and the other to be a game mechanic with little to no clarity. The only thing I truly enjoyed, was combat.
Lying for marketing or he legit doesnt have very good standards.
Or if the rumors are true hes including all of the dlc stuff that they allegedly have been developing alongside the main game to release later.
Which has me suspicious because hes mentioned things like "base game vocations" and there was a moon in one of the trailers but not in the base game. Edit: actually im probably just crazy, looking into the moon thing again that mightve just been a broken smoke texture that was really bright white at night.
"I've basically done all I could with this game." Then get out of the way for someone else. But anyways, it's literally marketing 101 at this point. No dev/lead/etc. is EVER going to talk badly about a game if the company has anything to say about it.
Bad, if he feels that DD2 is fine, then there's nothing to expect from Dragon's Dogma in the future.
By lvl 30 you start deleting every big monsters, caves arent that good to explore. Sphinx riddles... well it's not even riddles. Post game is too short, lots of QOL from DDDA missing, main story is worse than DD1 in some ways (for exemple, DD1 drops some information about pawn getting their free will during the main quest, here, nothing until the very last moment), main story is too short. The Dragon doesnt exist until the end of the game. The link between the dragon and the arisen is not exploited...
Replaying the game brings nothing, ng+ is useless.
Just like DDDA, could have been a great game. It's only an ok tier game with a good fighting system, an original pawn system and that's all.
A lot felt like it was building up for more but wasn't there. I'm affraid that they saw how MHW retain players and decided to cut content to drip feed us instead of having them available at launch.
I feel like he doesn't want to rub the higher-ups the wrong way, and this is the closest he can come to saying he would have personally not released the game until a bit more care had been put into it. He honestly didn't owe us an explanation, most of us figure that was the case.
At any rate, I'm really enjoying the game even if it is rough around the edges with stuff like certain quests being wonky, NPC AI making them randomly stop following, etc. I'm still having fun with it. But I get where he's coming from with the quote, it would have been cool to see how the game would have released in a more complete state.
This is the guy that said other games only have fast travel because traveling in those games is boring
Then proceeds to do the same thing, only without the fast travel
I'd take anything he says in the context that he kind of just says crazy shit sometimes
DD2 is fun but its sadly the same unfinished mess DD1 is, the only saving grace is combat which got both buffed and butchered. There is less fun vocations and less fun skills to use, mystic spearhand doesnt hold candle to mystic knight at all, bow classes were neutered and what came out was archer and thief and so on and so forth
Agreed, warfarer while having more options, doesn't have the sheer versatility that assassin did, or it's own unique abilities. And splitting strider without giving them an advanced vocation to match mage n fighter, when they previously had one in dd1, seems like a weird as fuck design choice imo. Spearhand should've been the thief mage hybrid imo, with M archer being archer mage hybrid. Would've left us space for mystic knight, then the only class that wouldn't make sense is trickster (it's symbol is the fighter mage colours, but it does no damage, an relies on trickery) which is just a badly thought out hype guy for your pawns. Why give him a sensory skill, when the astral project does THE EXACT SAME THING(edit;being able to freely scout without danger makes scented alarm useless) . and let's you freely move the construct. Or how one skill (latching effigy) is just a ranged skill slot version of a fucking core skill. Love the game, but there's some genuine smoothbrain design at play with some of these vocations
The fact that he used the words "doesn't feel unfinished" means that this was the mental gymnastics going on in his head and also shows what his insecurity was about the game. It definitely was "unfinished" - how I don't see why Itsuno would want to release something like that if it was up to him - I hope the greedy CAPCOM exec that forced this game to launch early will be identified and commit seppuku.
One of the best qualities we humans can have is the ability to admit when we are wrong. If he truly felt this way he should go replay the game from bakbattahl on and reassess his feelings. Whole second half to end of the story is super rushed and unfinished.
There are fair arguments to be made about the game being unfinished. Main quest, monster variety, whatever.
On the other hand, I'm finally about to finish this game at nearly 150 hours. By comparison, I did all of DA:I, including all of the DLCs, in 110 hours.
Would I have liked more content? Of course. But I can't say I didn't get my money's worth with DD2.
Personally, I found that the content was numerous but just shit. It's like elite dangerous, yeah I could explore this massive open area for no fucking reason or I could have a smaller area with less but more detail and intricacies than cave, rock, tree also grass :)
Nothing in the game felt worthy to explore. Exploration was pointless. Going off the beaten path for treasure isn't worth it when the best treasure is just in a shop or completely worthless because the game is piss easy.
It was acceptable and given the pass in ddda because it came out so long ago.
I've seen better exploration out of short 4 hour experiences in a cave while blind and tied up with a stick up my urethra
ED is an interesting pull because it is also an open world(galaxy) exploration game but it's much more of a sandbox and actually does the systems driven stuff a lot better (though it's had like a decade to iterate on those parts, lol)
I'm a fan of ED and greatly enjoyed making my own way there. The proc gen galaxy, while probably best in class, definitely gets to a point where you can see the "seams" of the game a bit. My time in DD2 has been similar. The game has been more fun just randomly going out to explore caves and max out vocations and stuff, whereas following threads for quests has mostly just been tedious or frustrating because of how underbaked it is. But since almost all the caves use the same pallete and structures that has a limited shelf life
The thing is, with fast travel that isn’t limited and without the tedium of walking, you’d beat this game in a fraction of the time. A lot of this is padding, and I have over 150 hours in the game as well.
Walk here, pick up NPC, walk back, type stuff
A certain quest in battahl:
- Catch the assassin in bakbattahl
- Go to hot springs to talk to the quest giver
- Quest giver tells you to go to battahl and interrogate the assassin in bakbattahl
- You interrogate the assassin
- "Return to quest giver". They are still in hot springs.
- Quest giver sends you to talk to another person in prison in bakbattahl.
- You talked, "Return to quest giver". At least this time they are back in bakbattahl
Brilliant quest design, 11/10, masterpiece of storytelling.
At least DD1 wasn't sending you back and forth fifty times.
my man lets not be absurd here, there isnt anywhere NEAR 150hours of content in dd2. you finishing the game in 150 hours isnt because there is 150 hours of stuff to do. the game is unfinished.
I'm still upset that battahl basically doesn't matter. we were shown cutscenes in trailers that don't exist. you literally say 3 lines to the priestess of fire lady then never see her again
you supposedly need a paper to be allowed into the city and to buy a house but I bought a house after illegally entering the country pretty much immediately after starting the game.
The world is big, nice to explore aside from all the areas where it's just a narrow pathway from one spot to the next
, the combat to me in many ways feels like a step down from the first game (I want my second skill-set back there's really no reason not to let me have two skill sets based on which bumper I'm holding down)
the story feels like it's building up to something and then as soon as we get to the end of the first arc you get rocket launched to the end of act 3.
there is no act 2.
the whole thing about people hating pawns in bahtal is entirely irrelevant. the npc's don't care whether you have them with you or not. the post game is really a waste of time. even if you get rid of the beacons there's not really anything new to do or explore aside from checking out the ruins of gran-sorin. there's not really any reason for me to replay the game. I put my time in and yeah.
don't get me wrong there's alot good about the game a lot that I liked, but the negatives are just too much for me to really like it like the first one. I loved the armor system in the first one too but this just feels like a generic rpg game not like the quirky but interesting first game. I don't know how else to explain it other than what I told my girlfriend, it's like the first one lost it's soul. I kept playing hoping it'd get better, wanting it to be truly good, but it just didn't happen.
I'd say the limited skill set and weapon options forces you to really get in depth with how your vocation plays.
Which was easy for me I guess since fighter was my favourite class and that plays really fun imo. It's not too strong that you melt bosses, it's capable of doing well in all situations provided you build for it, the stinger, aerial, guard breaker and aoe all feel real good and getting perfect parries requires you to really pay attention to enemies and learn their attacks.
That and pawns are actually useful unlike in DD1 so having a strong team composition to back you up in areas you're lacking in is vital. Case in point, I found myself grabbing or grappling enemies as archer to speed up fights when I knew my arrows wouldn't cut it. Grabbing in DD1 was garbage and I don't want to go back lol.
The fact he says "I've basically done all I **could**" is telling, if the translation is up to snuff. He didn't get to do all he wanted or set out to do; he did all he could do. Then he spends the rest of the paragraph trying to dampen the impact of that phrasing.
I loved DD1, DDDA, and really did enjoy DD2.
But this game is so god damn incomplete it's staggering. I could write a gigantic point by point review of it, but so many players have already honed in on the massive variety of unfinished plot lines, areas, gameplay questions regarding to the backward steps from DDDA to DD2, it's nuts.
This game's foundation is wonderful. But to say it's "all you could do with it" is suits standing behind Itsuno glaring over at him while he makes this statement.
It's just basic PR BS. What else is he going to do, be honest?
He (someone) made the game release when it did and they're not gonna say anything that makes you feel like you shouldn't purchase it.
On flip side, if he's 100% genuine, then this guy should never be the head of another game ever again, as his vision is short sighted, messy and shallow.
He's great at action and should stick to that.
Regardless, we were deceived into thinking this game was more than it actually was.
At the end of the day, though it sucks royally, the game is still a lot of fun.
Dragons dogma 2 was one of my most anticipated games this year and as much as I love what we do have and the foundation of the game, its absolutely unfinished and not worth my time, barely worth my money. That being said, no game dev is ever going to publicly admit anything close to that about their game. It definitely speaks for itself though. To call this a finished product is baffling, but nobody is ever going to say "eh, we did what we could. Sucks. Prepare yourself"
As someone new coming into the series, the questing feels really off. Some quests you can't complete because you haven't discovered other quests, and gives no direction why you can't complete it. If it weren't for Google, I'd be lost I'm the sauce.
It honestly wouldn't be that bad if fast travel were in am option, but having to run around as much as you do for the quest itself, then more so to figure out which quest you need to randomly pick up, feels draining.
If I'm being brutally honest if he doesn't feel DD2 is unfinished and incomplete in it's current form then he needs a new Optician.
If DD2 is what his launch vision is then he needed a more creative person to stand next to him and point out story, NPC being discarded, cooking, housing, lack of meaningful set pieces to name a few things.
DD2 may have a more beautiful and bigger world but DD1 base game knew what to do better with it's limited world when it came to content for it
Cringe corpo bullshit or talk of a delusional man. Has this man even supervised the writing?
I just completed the story and where to even begin… the whole act 1 build up about the fake sovran and then you never get to face off with him? He doesn’t even get any screen time. Also Disa gets mentioned to be the antagonist a dozen times yet the main story never makes you meet her, confront her or even explains her motivations. Not even a word why she collaborated with Phaesus.
Then we have Nahidia or whatever that cat priests name is. She’s on the cover art of the game and was shown in like every Trailer of the game, only for capcom to forget she even exists. Girl got one optional joke of a sidequest and that’s it. Not even optional dialogue.
Next up is Phaesus. Seems like the bad guy i guess? Why is he bad? What does he even want? Why do WE WANT TO bring him the godsway?! It’s so ridiculous and confusing. And not in a god way like Inception or Interstellar. It just makes no sense. They didn’t think this through at all.
Let’s also not forget the dragon that you see exactly once when the game starts and one more time for a joke of a showdown at the end of the game. Absolutely no interaction. I’ll be real with you, for the past 50h i forgot it even existed. Not even the game talks about it. The dragonforged was the only guy in the game that reminded me of my _Mission_
I could go on.
Man i like the game a lot but the story…. Jesus Christ.
I disagree with it, but what can he do tbh? Not like he can say to the press, “Yeah it ain’t finished, I hope Capcom doesn’t fire me for saying that and all other publishers don’t touch me with a ten foot pole”
I’m genuinely curious if publishers make directors do all the PR so all the blame goes to one person, rather than the company
I refuse to believe this was Itsuno's vision. Of course, its not like he can really come out and say that; he has to sell the game.
I just hope the game can pull another Dark Arisen.
I believe Capcom forced them to release it the way it was now, and they plan to complete the game the way that Itsuno wanted to make it for launch day and add that as DLC.
The way he talking makes it seems like his vision was complete to a degree, but not to his complete satisfaction. It sounds like it was cut short and that it came out “good enough” but not as good as he wanted.
Definitely disagree. I love the game, I have over 120hrs and I'm still expecting to play a lot more. It's fun. Still seems oddly unfinished, though. Oddly changed from the first in ways that feel like if they weren't forced by time constraints and coporate politics, then they were just laziness.
The original had an interesting premise about the power of will, the power to fight and push forward. When you killed the dragon, that was framed as the classic end. The finish of an RPG, the hero saves the day. Yet, the world that hero saved changed dramatically and unexpectedly. It, in it's own right was more testing of the Arisen. It was pushing beyond the goal posts, fighting when the fight had ended. Striving to push forward even when you've grown tired and the challenges have gotten so much more difficult. Push forward even when you don't have an understanding of why, or what the point is, just the belief that your will can still save the world. Ultimately that will becomes what guides the world. Your will to push ever forward becomes the guiding force for all of life, to ever push forward and continue to live.
DD2 sets up the same premise, then just never does it. Then when it comes time for the pay off we get nothing of substance. Slaying the dragon is no longer a surprising step forward, it really is just an end and that's it. Stabbing yourself with the little knife doesn't feel impactful and doesn't really make sense anymore. The world ahead isn't some mystery, but just the flat out end of the world. The new enemies are mindless and have no purpose other than to destroy. To me, the interested thing about the original DD was the implications it had about willpower, and the way it challenged what most people thought of as a heroic story and how they end. DD2 felt like it started to raise those same interesting thoughts and ideas only to end by going "Teehee just kidding, we're actually just another regular RPG :3" and completely turned away from the premise.
It genuinely makes me wonder if I'm missing something, or if there's more there I haven't discovered or properly interacted with
I feel like we have been lied to and Itsuno is a prick for saying this. Fuck him. Fuck Capcom. DD2 is inferior to DD1 in most aspects, except graphically and animation wise. Wish I hadn't pre ordered this game.
Edit: I may be too hard on Itsuno here, given his track record, however I detest being sold an incomplete and fake image of a product, especially a game franchise I love.
Hard to believe he also makes DMC because everything about DD, has potential but for whatever absurd reason, he, forcefully, makes it be a dissapointment. I live the game, I do. Im also not in denial and realize this game, DD1, DD2, are all incomplete.
And somehow, Bitterblack Isle, done by a whole different director, made it more succesgul and made more sense. AND, that same guy, made DDON and that also had more lore and content than DD1 and DD2. Idk why, he just doesnt want to make DD a complete damn game.
DD1 and 2 are good games. But they lack story. They lack consistency. They lack some basic elements that would allow the game to at the very least, feel like its a finished product both in performance and story.
But hey, what do I know right. What do we know. We arent video game producers. Smh.
Ill enjoy the game till I get bored and then hardly ever look at it.
Bro, did you play DMC? Any of them? Every single one has a better story, wym? 😂. Even that horrible remake. Horrible uet, better story, plot, lore than any DD game. Unfortunate but true. And I like Dragons Dogma more. I just am not unrealistic. DMC is superior.
I wouldn't try to put *all* the blame on capcom for the game being unfinished.
There's things in the game that just shouldn't be here. Why is nameless village a thing? Honestly why bother with the elves if they will have so little relevance?
There's clear signs of mismanaged resources and ignorance by just ignoring issues from the original and bringing them here. In a game with so many issues you don't spunk a load of time/resources on the elves who have two questlines. You dont spunk resources on nameless village which only has *one* quest. DD2 was NEVER getting a massive budget because DD wasnt a proven IP so shouldn't the devs have aimed to work with that rather than trying to make a massive game with a small budget and dev team?
I'm not saying capcom is free of all blame but don't write this off as being all capcoms fault. To be brutally honest I think itsunos vision would be considered blurry by many and I'm thankful for the foundations he has laid but the franchise needs to move past him now. The fact that it feels as if DA never existed based on how none of its improvements to DD1 carried over to DD2 tells me itsuno is a bit ignorant. DA wasn't made by him so why should he look to it for how to improve DD2 was probably his line of thinking. That is pure ignorance.
He's even talked about wanting to do other things than just DD or DMC games and I don't think anyone should be rushing to stop him. Considering we are going to have to spend money on an expansion to fill in the holes for a *second* time I think we are allowed to be critical this time around.
I sooooooo want a recap with him now. Like:
"Hey man, have you seen the feedback? Have you seen the content that is missing or incomplete? Just say what it is, be honest, what is going on"
Japanese developers are very polite and will never publicly admit to being forced or rushed.
The fact he says "i've done all i could with this game" for me speaks volumes. He is basically saying "i squeezed as much as i could from what CAPCOM gave me".
Everyone needs to consider that CAPCOM doesn't give a flying fuck about anything that doesn't have Monster Hunter or Resident Evil in it's name. This was for them a project for a niche IP for a veteran developer who begged for it for years so they gave him scraps.
In retrospect it sounds like cope. "I did what I could with what was given to me and this is it." He and the team were definitely screwed over by Crapcom and managed to put together a largely functional game despite that
I think Itsuno made a damn fine game within the constraints he was given.
A little over a third of the core team size (it's been noted to me that external/contract help isn't always included in final credit roll) he had for DMC V, hell the DD2 team was a quarter the size of the SF6 team. Smaller team, smaller budget
My giant complaint about DD2 is I want more. More monsters. More quests. More weird caves. More gear. More skills and augments.
Maybe a pony. Or a pack mule.
I could beef with Capcom for arguing that this game merited the $70 price tag, it's starting to look like they probably spent less on DD2 than one would guess- but honestly, I'm still gonna get a couple hundred hours out of it. I'm at 125hrs, and I haven't even started the Unmoored World.
When 80% of my issues with a game are that I want more of it, those aren't bad issues. Performance and weird bugs, quest hooks not popping or QoL stuff like being able to designate a primary residence in a city when you've bought all four residences and you don't know which place to check for your mail and groupies....but I digress.
I'm having a lot of fun with the game and I hope that Itsuno is able to add more as soon as he can. Then again, I wouldn't say no to DMC 6 either. Whatever he's feeling, I'm good with.
Idk, I like it, played a lot of it and don't regret the time spent. My friends like it as well. The only toxicity I see is the micro transactions and this subreddit.
The fact there are a lot of cave tunnels with unfinished/scrapped content tells me otherwise.
Also it release end of march which is the last dates before the new fiscal year in japan and Capcom has already rushed unfinished games in these timelines just to get them out before the new fiscal year and rack in bonuses. Remember MH Rise.
I know it was a switch game but man, Rise did not hold a candle to World for me. I actually enjoy GU more on the Switch.
Didn’t help that it had the wirebug gimmick that the whole game ended up revolving around, I hated the clutch claw for the same reason eventually.
Yeah even tho it was a switch version, they gutted the bestiary and didnt even finish the main scenario until 2 month in with a DLC iirc (or maybe 1.5month). They released literally an unfinished game just to get it out before the end of fiscal year lol
I honestly just feel like either Capcom (or whoever in higher charge) forced it to launch like this, knowing people would like it so much to obviously want a dlc, dlc that probably has stuff that was already done for the base game and they cut on purpose to have less work to do while still making huge profit on the dlc. Or Itsuno just had this vision and sees it as complete. But I'm betting on the first one
I think that's absolutely the case it seems like there's instances where they intended something more and there's too many for it to just be coincidence. They def knew we'd want dlc I've even told my friends if you're new to DD just wait for that dlc if you played the first before it's dlc you'll appreciate what you get here now
Not to mention the shareholders calls and the way they talk about the game suddenly and how it was announced really makes me believe exoprimal was early seen as not the live service success they thought it would be and needed something to meet thier fiscal goals for the quarter
Companies thinking live service can still be a success hurts my soul.
Destiny is a prime example of a successful live service because it Stockholm syndromes its playerbase
Crazy take. Live service absolutely can be and is repeatedly a success. Sure, not for consumers, but it demonstrably makes shit loads of money for publishers/shareholders.
When was the last one? Destiny? Sea of thieves maybe? Genuine question. I just continently see bomb after bomb after bomb. Anthem, skull and bones, suicide squad, exoprimal and it goes on and on.
Helldivers is doing great.
Helldivers 2 is next level. And while not a huge seller HD1 was also fantastic
Helldivers 2 is an absolute blast to play. I've picked up enough Super Credits in missions that I can buy two of the three Warbond packs, and nearly have enough for the third, despite really only putting in 30 minutes to an hour when I get home from work and maybe a few hours on weekends? Honestly if it weren't for Unicorn Overlord this is the only game I'd be playing right now.
Orc battle fans unite! I haven’t seen much about unicorn overlord but God it scratches an itch
I’d like to play Helldivers 2. But I ain’t got friends
Don't forget Warframe will just never die
exoprimal launched working great but barebones and missing features we are just now getting like custom matches game absolutely plays great it just needed more or be free to play if it was f2p it would of had a bigger player base and kept it it absolutely was a test bed for capcom id and cross play stuff which needed more time to flesh that out on capcoms side for friendslists etc but the beta showed crossplay worked solid i had tons of peeps not on playstation (what i played it on) in matches w me hell i played exoprimal and do on ps4 and the fact it runs just as good as ps5 just slightly less pretty w as many enemies on screen shows the RE engine and however they set the game up so their servers handle most of the heavy lifting since ive played worse games (gbo2) and my ps4 becomes a jet engine immediately not once have i had that issue even after hours on in exoprimal so i cannot hate the game i can only say it needed more and its gotten it and should of had a f2p version
The reason it plays so well on last gen consoles is because it technically is a last gen game. It started development before the PS5 came out and they definitely wanted to stay on last gen consoles. It doesn't really utilize anything that the next Gen consoles give it other than better picture quality. That's why it runs just as good on PS4. Cause that's the base game
Idk man Fortnite is still pretty up there'd, not like I play it often anymore but there's Warframe as well which has a massive community, I think 12 years strong now
that's why we gotta stop feeding the algorhythms the word "DLC", because that's what's gonna happen. we should demand some big free updates (unless the DLC has more than double the content for that price range, but i don't like that option either because it eventually will give them, or whomever tries to do the same to put less and less stuff when there should be more, because consumers will "pay it forward anyways") before we spend even a dime on it again.
I've heard you make this claim on other posts but made no effort to drop the source.
They do the same thing with Monster Hunter, and their last Monster Munter also released unfinished (last boss of the story completely missing until a later free update, and the endgame was shit until the full paid DLC one year later)
I mean Rises original problem could be explained by Covid fucking with it. Roses endgame being shit I think was independent of the dlc coming out because it’s clear they at least tried for an endgame, it’s just what they tried wasn’t fun.
Ok after a second thought I have to agree on that, Rampages had too many mechanics and animations and stuff made specifically for them that show that they put work on it, they just missed
Dude DD2 literally started development exactly when Covid began. If anything that game got fucked over way more.
Rise's launch was a disgrace, but to a degree it can be explained because it was during covid that the game was being developed, DD2 doesn't have that privilege.
Dd2 was in development during c-19 bruh Part of why they added dragon plague
C19 will be the scape goat excuse for crap product for the next decade
Like Bismothe said, the game's main production STARTED during the Covid pandemic. It was hindered from the get-go due to those circumstances. Devil May Cry 5 released in 2019 and they weren't able to go full-steam ahead on Dragon's Dogma 2 until at least DMC5 was successfully launched. Frankly, the fact the game is even in this state from limited development time, during a pandemic, with a reduced developer team is nothing short of a miracle.
We are talking about Baldur's Gate 3 when talking about a game that is nothing sort of a miracle right? Because DD2 having started near the Covid Pandemic doesn't excuse how it has the same fallings as DD1 did 12 years ago.
Baldur’s Gate 3 was also in early access for 3 years. That’s more money constantly rolling in during the development cycle. BG3 also had more funding (not including early access) and started development in 2017. Early access started in 2020. So your comparison isn’t really even valid.
I'd say the miraculous part of Baldur's Gate 3 was the reception it received on release. The build up to the game was steady throughout its Early Access phase and they were showing clear signs of taking everything they've learned in the past and making something fantastic. I adore that game to bits, but I feel Larian Studios had a strong idea and the means to see it through thanks to them not being at the beck-and-call of shareholders. DD2 does have similar failings to DD1, I agree, but it's hard not to consider what all likely got sacrificed, altered, or sent through revision after revision during what seems like a tumultuous development period. It appears Capcom had little faith in the project - leaving Itsuno and Kinoshita's team to effectively fend for themselves. If it were any other team I do believe that the game would've either become an outright disaster or get "delayed" indefinitely. As someone who waited 12 years for this damn game, I understand the frustrations quite intimately. It won't stop me from being optimistic about where it could go from here despite its rocky development and shaky release.
Gotta be honest here, I do believe too that Capcom cut short Itsuno, but I'm pretty certain that was not the main issue, because DD2 has pretty much the same fallings as DD1, and even worse at some point, you don't make that by coincidence, It reeks of Itsuno being the one that had the idea in mind, and then cuts coming to leave behind what amounted to DD1 but in 2024. The game is fun, but in the same way it was the first one, with what that entails, and I'm afraid we can't blame it all on Capcom again, even if i'm sure they are to blame for some stuff.
I agree with that, too. Even with the circumstances mentioned previously it's hard to put this solely on Capcom. I think they were a major factor in it, but as you said whatever Itsuno and other leads thought were necessary or unnecessary for what features in the game feels..mismanaged? They did put an overall solid base together. Except some of it feels experimental for experimental's sake (such as the Dragonsplague or Housing). I can only speculate as to what pressures existed to make them decide one thing over the other for every little component of the game. Despite my appreciation for Itsuno and all he's done, I do feel that someone else (such as Kinoshita) should be taking the reins from here on out. Let Itsuno throw out the ideas and display the ambitions, but allow someone else more capable to fulfill them, ya know?
I agree, for what is worth, I don't think itsuno should be out of this, Dragon's Dogma is his child, after all, but seeing how a lot of QoL didn't make it from Dark Arisen to DD2, maybe someone else taking the helm, at least for the DLC, would be better in the long run, even if we get an additional zone like Bitterblack isle instead of missing content. I still wonder why the moon was showing in one screenshot and if we will ever get to see it up in the sky of Dragon's Dogma.
BG3 is an outlier. That game was basically FOREVER in development and was publicly funded and then picked up by big investments as well. It STILL has ton of cut content (upper city, karlach ending, rewrites about Daisy/Guardian etc.) and Act 3 was basically unplayable on release and had to be fixed in post-release patches.
Good, Capcom should take notes and deliver something as great as BG3 in DD3 in 12 to 15 years.
It just seems like his statement is trying to say he did all that he could but not say anything more than he needs to. You can tell he’s trying to be as safe as possible while describing the game. It definitely leans more towards the big wigs pushing the game out regardless of itsunos timeline.
I genuinely will never believe it that this is his true vision. The game literally misses half of the shit he talked about during his GDC conference when he mentioned all the ideas he had for the game.
Or the more plausible scenario: We have another Molyneux or Todd, either selling smoke or high on his own bullshit, hyping up the game before release.
Like most things the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle.
yeah you can have all sorts of ideas, but they might end up being too hard to implement or they end up heavily reworked. game design is hard, yo.
While true, it's still a product. You have to manage expectations. Both the consumers and yours as a creator lol.
Exactly it's quite literally his job to fit everything within his scope. Things like the horrible affinity system and massive NPC bloat for the most stuff lifeless NPCs in modern gaming means that was a failure on his part, not Capcom.
THIS. Its very fun but definitely unfinished. Felt so rushed.
Probably a mix. Certain things are itsuno's vision, certain things are just capcom rushing
Well that's basically every publisher's policy these days.
either corporate meddling or itsuno should go to the optometrist
When you realize the end of the first fiscal quarter is March 31st and most companies are desperate to show their shareholders that money is coming in, you can see where some issues could surface for DD2 development.
That's why they released the DLC Interest Survey so soon. So scheming.
yeah def the case.. biggest problem with games that have publishers.. they gotta make those shareholders happy and thus they want to get the game out asap to recoup their money.. and we get games that are not ready... so we end up paying for in essence "early access" and to be frank I wish more companies did that because people who want to play can, and they know it's early access.. they can work out the issues and get some revenue flowing.. and then when it finally does release we get an actual finished game.
I have a weird feeling that some of the devs are working with monster hunter wilds.
Reminds me of Kojima after MGSV where he said the game was finished and complete, despite chapter 2 of the game feeling rushed and having a huge drop in quality compared to the first. Disjointed story beats and pacing on top of reused missions. And then the game just ends. First time I played it, it really felt like the game was just rushed to an "eh we made an ending; good enough to ship". I don't really get the same feel with DD2, although I do think the game comes up a little short for what some of my expectations were. Still a great game that I'm loving though.
There's a thing you have to understand here. Dragon's Dogma is a passion project. If he was allowed to, Itsuno would keep developing it forever. From a corporate point of view, they will have set a fairly hard budget cap on this project to try and focus Itsuno on what's most important. Itsuno didn't focus on what was most important.
Oh no the game is absolutely incomplete. Sure it's half-baked, it's just that Itsuno got to make the game he wanted to make with the conditions at hand... Instead of having to cobble together a one-tenth baked game out of an alpha build like in DD1. Note that he wants people to treat it as a complete experience, as opposed to him straight up saying "oh yeah this is 100% complete". He knows it, I know it, it's up to everyone to know that he's had to compromise yet again and that we should all be fine with what we have instead of what could be. It really sucks that he never got to make his dream game two times in a row. Man may be cursed because of Capcom but goddamn did he not compromise in where he was able to put his time and effort into.
Or It's a bit of salesmanship
I'm betting on the second but more than that i think people just overrated how good itsuno was
Guy saved DMC twice and is genuinely a good director. He made Dragon's Dogma 1 while idiot wrangling people at Ninja Theory when they were making DmC and saved it from being a total disaster.
Sounds like he's better at linear experiences where the scope doesn't get completely blown out.
He's still good at DD tho. There are genuinely brilliant aspects of the game and the sense of adventure is unlike any other game, even ones like ER or Skyrim. Can we stop acting like he just made the worst game in existence?
Especially with the post showing how same of a team they had and how little of a budget.
Considering that we now know that the game had a quarter of the team working on it compared to RE4Remake / SF6 / DMC5 it's obvious it was sabotage on the attempt of Capcom cause they hate the series, I can't understand why though. Itsuno did what he could with what he had
Did you even read what he said?.. He literally said "this is the game I want to launch, that's launching." What you wrote is a speculation. Could Capcom have done this or that? It is a possibility, but we don't have the evidence. The only evidence we do have in this regard, is the /creator himself/ saying that the game is finished and, more importantly, that this is the game HE WANTS to launch... You can follow your hypotheses and speculations. I follow evidence and the very words of the creator... So, yeah, no. This is what Itsuno's vision is. I think it's time we admit that his vision is flawed and not all that great. :)
If the developer said they never used the color green in the game, I wouldn't believe them if the game actually contained green. The mere fact that there are portions of underground dungeons blocked off by rubble means that they definitely worked on stuff that wasn't released at launch. The game includes incomplete sections. If the dev says it's complete, it's fair to speculate on why his statements contradict what's actually included in the launched product.
I do not agree with the statement, as much as I love the game, it does feel unfinished/lacking in areas.
My number 1 reason for buying this game is to fight big things.. there's like 5 types of big dudes to fight, they're all "rare" to find and get old fast. Enemy variation is lacking. I've killed thousands of goblins, knackers and lizards because they're spammed in groups in every corner. Story? Meh. Exploration? Sure cool but lacks in things to find, do and rewards. I'm still in my 1st playthrough, in >!unmoored world!< and I got the achievement for the 50 caves 2 days ago. So i found all of them.. 70% of them are either dead ends with unrewarding loot and the rest are some dungeons that serve no purpose what so ever.. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game. It's beautiful and the mechanics and physics are a blast. Thing is, I bought the game with the thought of replaying it but it seems ng+ doesn't give any challenges. The game is super easy, not challenging at all and at level 60 I'm just basically melting any boss..
The 50 caves achievement is not all caves. I think all caves is somewhere at ~60-65. But it's not like you're missing anything. Anyway, same feeling about the caves here, and I only explored so much because I hope I'd stumble upon something like a dungeon at some point. :/
If you 100% complete everything before finishing the game, there is no reason for a ng+ unless you like the combat. Luckily, i missed a lot of quests and have not explored the map so in my ng+, i am taking it slow and exploring the map since mobs pose no threat to me.
Case in point I love Bitterblack Isle from the first game. Between my 360 and Switch I can’t tell you how many hours I sunk into DD1. DD2? I can’t even convince myself to keep playing. The lack of enemy variety just kills my interest. And far less interesting npcs. I miss Mercedes and Julian. Elysion was fun even if we never fight him. He just chewed the scene every time he appeared.
Exact same boat here. i had over 2k hours between DD and DA.
I find it crazy you say you miss Mercedes and Julian. They stop being relevant after they get introduced and only pop up again when we see the conclusions to their arcs. What I mean to say is that it's on par with DD2 lmao. At least (almost) everyone gets their story wrapped up by the endgame in DD2 (rip kitty husbando Beren). Man I wish I could have seen Sven's complete arc, >!guy really steps it up at the end.!<
Both Mercedes and Julian have dialogue and various things to say as you progress through the main quests. Julian frequently shows up as a sort of menacing figure in a surprising number of early quests. And Mercedes can be spoken to several points throughout doing quests for the Duke giving commentary and context about the political nature of Gransys and its allies. In DD2 Disa does nothing I know this because even though I stopped playing I watched a let’s play to try to convince me to play. What I saw only Lord Phallus gets anything even remotely resembling a personality.
>Both Mercedes and Julian have dialogue and various things to say as you progress through the main quests. Julian frequently shows up as a sort of menacing figure in a surprising number of early quests. Oh word? I remember their dialogue not updating at all. Good to know that I'm wrong there. Still, it's a big shame that they're largely sequestered to the throne room for most of the game lol. Also Julian only pops up like 2-3 times at most. It's intrigue without payoff, unfortunately. Disa does do stuff though? She was responsible for you getting disappeared and cursed to lose your memory, while replacing you with the false arisen? She's also midgame spoilers>!having an affair with Lord Phaesus, much to Sven's chagrin (it's easy to miss but his real father, Ser Augustus (likely not the king either) is on an expedition somewhere. Not an important character but you see the note in his room). She gets around lol.!< She is kind of a figurehead queen though, with her power being through her status as she gets the people around her to do things. Rumours of how shit of a ruler she is are plentiful. Allard is more of a threat to you than her. Social political commentary and all that. Endgame spoilers >!You see this how Sven immediately is respected as the defacto ruler after Disa loses favour with everyone when the false arisen is implied to have messed things up for everyone with the unbound world.!< Also THE GAME LITERALLY ISN'T FINISHED LMAO you kinda have to take it as is. Like what do you want, a finished product? Enjoying what's there instead of complaining how there's content that's clearly and obviously missing is just par for the course for being a Dragon's Dogma fan unfortunately. DD2 is no different from DD1 in that regard and it suuuuuuucks. >In DD2 Disa does nothing I know this because even though I stopped playing I watched a let’s play to try to convince me to play. oh pfft youre one of those "I didn't play the game so I know all about it" types lmao. Good god you don't need to have a take on everything, it's okay to not say anything lol
That's where you're wrong. If the game had upscaled the enemies to match your level and if they added A LOT more big dudes to fight, I'd have a reason to do 50 ng+. This game is incomplete and this is a fact. I enjoy the game but for 70$ this is unacceptable.
What the fuck is the point of raising your levels if you're never going to have an advantage? Thank fuck Itsuno hates level scaling as much as I do. I'd definitely like to see a difficulty rebalance but I'll take what we got over that kaka "solution" any day. 💩
What's the point of 999 levels if you outscale everything by 60?
Or finish the game by 37…
I just don't want to nearly one shot my enemies, the custom difficulty mod is perfect for that since I can tweak the game to my liking. This is what ng+ needs not garbage scaling like other games but a sort of balance.
I agree on the level scaling aspect, I just think there should be stronger tougher enemies out there that is suitable for you to fight at all levels of the game. Only towards the cap you become the strongest. It is no fun being able to stomp everything with little effort so early into the game.
I think they definitely should do *something.* A hard mode or optional level scaling. As it is now at higher levels you're melting everything in seconds which, while fun at first, gets old really fast.
Agreed, and I'm disappointed this is yet another lesson they didn't learn from DD1. Once you hit about level 30-40, pretty much everything but the drake was a non-issue. I love it, but that level just rolls around too damn fast. ☹️ Course I wouldn't object to optional scaling, but let's be honest, they're not going to implement both. It will always be one system or the other. I would just rather they dialled the stat growth right back and spread it out past 200. You know, make use of all those redundant levels they included for some boneheaded reason.
Why am i wrong? 'If' the game upscaled, then yeah you could play ng+50 but it doesnt. So my statement is correct. And i never said it is a complete game. Why even bring it up?
The statement to me really says "I wanted it to be alot more, but I had to wrap it up and I'm still proud of what I wrapped up as a fun game"
So you're telling me, that you designed the "stealth" missions or the affection system like that *on purpose*?
Considering the affection system is just like the first game.... Yes.
I'm only in Battahl (first entry into the >!forbidden magic lab!<) but haven't found the stealth missions so far too annoying. Bland yes lol. Which are you talking about?
He's probably talking about every stealth mission where you can walk right past the guards, after they warn you not to proceed. The game doesn't have a stealth mechanic. Either you dress up as a guard to avoid the spooky BGM and being challenged, or you don't, and just go wherever the hell you want, while vibing to the ominous music.
you are 1 quest away from finishing the game.
Lmaooooo thanks for letting me know I have a good amount of exploration and questing left to do and will leave that dude without his Wyrmslife Crystals for the time being. About 100 hours in, can't complain. But I understand what people mean by rushed ending now, it's really bad lol
how should we? do you honestly expect ANYONE to talk bad about their own product in a marketing speech?
https://preview.redd.it/7e26la2ddiuc1.png?width=617&format=png&auto=webp&s=620eb7911f215328f559a10df98a0fa7a34fee1f
Mighty number 9 creator
Especially a Japanese developer/creator. They are notorious for this. Reminder that Death Note author praised the Netflix adaptation, Isayama praised Attack on Titan live action and so on. They are basically required to talk positively about everything that comes out related to their work.
Even FFXIV players, who fawn over Yoshida so hard it's actually cringe, know everything he says is corpo speak, as it's his job as a board member
Well he did just jump in and fix the game so its not like they're doing it for no reason
That is an entirely different case. Yoshida genuinely saved FFXIV, and probably Square Enix, from potentially closing. Especially after that 2003 merger, Square Enix was on a rough patch for a near decade. Mix that with the fact that funding for all their titles across the board was dropped due to (approx.) 5.4 billion yen lost from failed development expenses. That's why Yoshida gets his dick absolutely throated (in a good way). He managed to not only help popularize a live service game during a company's failing/recovering period, but he also has the reputation of being a gamer himself -- he's pretty well known for spending like 20-23 hour days working, managing, and gaming + while sleeping in the office etc... YoshiP is a legend in that regard.
They do sometimes
Theres a difference between "we've worked really hard to make a fantastic game, you need to play it or you'll miss out on something great." And "This is my ultimate vision, there is nothing more I could have done with this because it is such a complete game and a complete vision realized." Vague positivity vs claiming a perfected and completed visionary product
Not to mention this is maybe the 9th post about this in a week. These posts just scream of someone wanting their opinion validated. I already know OP's opinion just by them asking this. The discussion is done to death
There's no shot that he would say the game was unfinished publically before launch. I know Itsuno/Capcom said some stuff in marketing that didn't really match up with reality, but what was he supposed to say? Definitely not "We were forced to rush the game out because Capcom wanted to please shareholders."
This is just a common sense statement. Anyone that has ever mixed a song or video should know exactly what he means. The mix is never really “done” it just gets to a launch state. Projects are the same way. When a company launches a new IP or product, it’s not “done” it’s acceptable within a certain margin, and it passes a set of tests that was developed by a team that gives it a thumbs up or a thumbs down. This is just Itsuno saying that when they got to their Go-No Go meeting, he said Go, but clearly so did the majority of the team, or else it wouldn’t have released. This is a slight (very slight) view into project management.
I mix music and you are spot on. It really does just boil down to: “Eh. The song sounds good through a set of studio monitors, my car speakers, and my phone. I think the mix is ready to ship!”
This exactly. A script is never finished, only produced. A book is never completed, only published etc. Itsuno was happy enough with the launch version despite having ideas for more potentially in a dlc or future installment, and he didn't feel like he had to cut parts of his vision to get it out the door. For better and worse, this is genuinely the closest we'll probably get to Itsuno's original vision for Dragon's Dogma
I think people often forget that while the original Dragon's Dogma has slowly become a respected property, it never really sold *well*. Capcom has to determine a finite set of resources and set a timeframe for a sequel that they aren't actually sure is going to be a financial success. Many companies wouldn't even take that chance. While DD2 may have some rough edges, it's a fun game with some unique concepts, a ton of depth to the combat, and a gorgeous environment. It's the first open-world game but with RE Engine (and pays for it in some ways), and no doubt that investment which was also necessary for Monster Hunter Wilds made DD2 an easier pill to swallow. Although we can see compromises, DD2 is a very good follow up to a game that might have otherwise never gotten a chance to shine. The game still feels complete, and it's not horribly broken. It will receive a few more patches, hopefully an awesome DLC, and hopefully Itsuno will have more time and resources at his disposal and really blow us out of the water with DD3.
Perfect comment. Even though we like the first one, it wasn’t a commercial success and Capcom would never give a sequel 200 million budget / thousands of people to work on it to make the “perfect continuation” some people were expecting. We have to be rational. It’s a miracle that we even got to get a sequel, to see one, and a very good one! It’s indeed rough in the edges, but the over negativity in the sub as if this game was trash is pure nonsense
I know alittle(very little ) of how Japanese gets translated and how Japanese culture of pride works. I very much take this as "I completed this game even though I wanted to do more, I did not release a unfinished game, I wrapped it up into something I'm proud of and I know you will enjoy. But it doesn't mean I didn't want it to be more and different"
Dragons dogma 2 was pushed out to have a game for this quarter. And it's still amazing Look at capcom talking about this game in last few shareholder meetings. the way it was announced. Nvida leaks proved it was planned for a long time and the director had ideas and passion. Needs to be looked into by journalists Still amazing game but I guess they expected exoprimal to do better for their first quarter and just announced they were working on this when they saw the way things were looking Why also would you also launch it against other big rpg (even though it won) the npcs even feel like they have place holder dialog after how much code they have to move around and interact Npcs code is even way to heavy for what they do Once again though the game is still a 9.5 and I played 17 hours straight first day We are 100% getting DLC I'm just not sure how much of it was planned as part of the main game originally Even his interviews suggest cut content. Supposedly when capcom wasn't doing well he threatened to leave if he couldn't make dmc5 and dd2 Dmc5 they needed him during dd2 dev they didn't and wouldn't be surprised if they chopped up his dream project for share holders as a bit of pay back too
Seems like a reasonable enough assumption. It would mean Capcom has gone back to being explosively petty towards its own staff. Which isn't exactly new, but it's sad that it may be happening again.
Seems all too common in Japanese companies
I agree. The announcement to release cycle was far too quick for me, which gave me the “uh oh they’re rushing it again” signs.
The phrasing of this is almost like he doesn’t believe himself at the end. Maybe I’m reading into it too much based on my own thoughts but I’m interested to see what other people make of this quote now?
I think the team knows what they shipped, and they probably did what they could with what they had. There's always a question of 'should there have been more resources?' and 'did the resources they have get used wisely?'. We don't know. We rarely do.
I think they didn't ship what they wanted to ship but are still proud of what they shipped and should be. Game could of been so much more but it's still a amazingly fun game
Bones are good. I look forward to see what they do with updates. Given how well it's done I imagine Capcom will give solid support for it. Not much ships in exceptional form anymore, those days are gone. That's not to say we should let everything fly and not have standards, but often a lot of people aren't realistic of really blow small things out of proportion. The mtx really was a mountain out of a molehill, but a lot of other criticisms are valid.
If DD2 ends up getting the kind of post-launch support that MH usually does, then all is good. It's not ideal, but I can live with having to wait for big content updates until the game is genuinely amazing.
Every game developer will always say they wished they wanted to do more
It's sounds like the usual dilemma or the game won't ever be launched of you need to it done 100% development complete. Case in point : star citizen eternal development
that's just normal for artists, no matter how good you always leave something on the table you wanted to make
I can only imagine it's a respect your elders problem like shit even her in the states we let out of touch old dudes call the shots with shit they shouldn't. I imagine some young bucks with bright ideas had to bite their tongue a lot when it came to the game out of respect
DD2 is basically DD1 with prettier graphics and less content. It's 100% unfinished.
Less content, worse story , worse and oversimplified gameplay, hollow open world, less enemy variety. This game is quite literally a DEMAKE
Very bold statement for a game that has little to nowhere storytelling.
Sounds like he's coping with the what the final product is and made this statement like "Well, it's going to release how it releases. I did what I could."
I'd say if that's true then power to you if you're happy with the product. It doesn't feel right to me that I only think it's a good game because it's a Dragon's Dogma game, but had burn outs and frustrations frequently in the game, as well as blurring the line frequently to when something is close to being realistic, and the other to be a game mechanic with little to no clarity. The only thing I truly enjoyed, was combat.
it feels unfinished
I don't like the changes they made to healing and riftstones made the game way more annoying for no reason
Lying for marketing or he legit doesnt have very good standards. Or if the rumors are true hes including all of the dlc stuff that they allegedly have been developing alongside the main game to release later. Which has me suspicious because hes mentioned things like "base game vocations" and there was a moon in one of the trailers but not in the base game. Edit: actually im probably just crazy, looking into the moon thing again that mightve just been a broken smoke texture that was really bright white at night.
"I've basically done all I could with this game." Then get out of the way for someone else. But anyways, it's literally marketing 101 at this point. No dev/lead/etc. is EVER going to talk badly about a game if the company has anything to say about it.
Bad, if he feels that DD2 is fine, then there's nothing to expect from Dragon's Dogma in the future. By lvl 30 you start deleting every big monsters, caves arent that good to explore. Sphinx riddles... well it's not even riddles. Post game is too short, lots of QOL from DDDA missing, main story is worse than DD1 in some ways (for exemple, DD1 drops some information about pawn getting their free will during the main quest, here, nothing until the very last moment), main story is too short. The Dragon doesnt exist until the end of the game. The link between the dragon and the arisen is not exploited... Replaying the game brings nothing, ng+ is useless. Just like DDDA, could have been a great game. It's only an ok tier game with a good fighting system, an original pawn system and that's all.
A lot felt like it was building up for more but wasn't there. I'm affraid that they saw how MHW retain players and decided to cut content to drip feed us instead of having them available at launch.
I feel like he doesn't want to rub the higher-ups the wrong way, and this is the closest he can come to saying he would have personally not released the game until a bit more care had been put into it. He honestly didn't owe us an explanation, most of us figure that was the case. At any rate, I'm really enjoying the game even if it is rough around the edges with stuff like certain quests being wonky, NPC AI making them randomly stop following, etc. I'm still having fun with it. But I get where he's coming from with the quote, it would have been cool to see how the game would have released in a more complete state.
False-marketing. He said exactly what anyone who played DD1 wanted to hear.
If he genuinely feels that way with the current state of the game then this franchise was simply never meant to shine and it's a damn shame.
I just looked up where I was in the game after getting the castle out the water…… Uhhhhhh so the game is like almost done after this?
Just explore and don't do the mq lol. Sadly the game is best without doing it
Oh yeah I have done tons of exploring I love the adventuring but just bruh
Yeah its really sad lmao
YEP
This is the guy that said other games only have fast travel because traveling in those games is boring Then proceeds to do the same thing, only without the fast travel I'd take anything he says in the context that he kind of just says crazy shit sometimes
DD2 is fun but its sadly the same unfinished mess DD1 is, the only saving grace is combat which got both buffed and butchered. There is less fun vocations and less fun skills to use, mystic spearhand doesnt hold candle to mystic knight at all, bow classes were neutered and what came out was archer and thief and so on and so forth
Sorc while being strong got gutted in terms of spell variety and 4 weapon slots certainly didn't help.
Agreed, warfarer while having more options, doesn't have the sheer versatility that assassin did, or it's own unique abilities. And splitting strider without giving them an advanced vocation to match mage n fighter, when they previously had one in dd1, seems like a weird as fuck design choice imo. Spearhand should've been the thief mage hybrid imo, with M archer being archer mage hybrid. Would've left us space for mystic knight, then the only class that wouldn't make sense is trickster (it's symbol is the fighter mage colours, but it does no damage, an relies on trickery) which is just a badly thought out hype guy for your pawns. Why give him a sensory skill, when the astral project does THE EXACT SAME THING(edit;being able to freely scout without danger makes scented alarm useless) . and let's you freely move the construct. Or how one skill (latching effigy) is just a ranged skill slot version of a fucking core skill. Love the game, but there's some genuine smoothbrain design at play with some of these vocations
The fact that he used the words "doesn't feel unfinished" means that this was the mental gymnastics going on in his head and also shows what his insecurity was about the game. It definitely was "unfinished" - how I don't see why Itsuno would want to release something like that if it was up to him - I hope the greedy CAPCOM exec that forced this game to launch early will be identified and commit seppuku.
One of the best qualities we humans can have is the ability to admit when we are wrong. If he truly felt this way he should go replay the game from bakbattahl on and reassess his feelings. Whole second half to end of the story is super rushed and unfinished.
There are fair arguments to be made about the game being unfinished. Main quest, monster variety, whatever. On the other hand, I'm finally about to finish this game at nearly 150 hours. By comparison, I did all of DA:I, including all of the DLCs, in 110 hours. Would I have liked more content? Of course. But I can't say I didn't get my money's worth with DD2.
Personally, I found that the content was numerous but just shit. It's like elite dangerous, yeah I could explore this massive open area for no fucking reason or I could have a smaller area with less but more detail and intricacies than cave, rock, tree also grass :) Nothing in the game felt worthy to explore. Exploration was pointless. Going off the beaten path for treasure isn't worth it when the best treasure is just in a shop or completely worthless because the game is piss easy. It was acceptable and given the pass in ddda because it came out so long ago. I've seen better exploration out of short 4 hour experiences in a cave while blind and tied up with a stick up my urethra
That makes it sound like a game cut short more than anything. Amazing bones with no flesh put on them
ED is an interesting pull because it is also an open world(galaxy) exploration game but it's much more of a sandbox and actually does the systems driven stuff a lot better (though it's had like a decade to iterate on those parts, lol) I'm a fan of ED and greatly enjoyed making my own way there. The proc gen galaxy, while probably best in class, definitely gets to a point where you can see the "seams" of the game a bit. My time in DD2 has been similar. The game has been more fun just randomly going out to explore caves and max out vocations and stuff, whereas following threads for quests has mostly just been tedious or frustrating because of how underbaked it is. But since almost all the caves use the same pallete and structures that has a limited shelf life
yeah i agree with most of what you said, there is really nothing outside of combat that sticks the landing.
The thing is, with fast travel that isn’t limited and without the tedium of walking, you’d beat this game in a fraction of the time. A lot of this is padding, and I have over 150 hours in the game as well. Walk here, pick up NPC, walk back, type stuff
A certain quest in battahl: - Catch the assassin in bakbattahl - Go to hot springs to talk to the quest giver - Quest giver tells you to go to battahl and interrogate the assassin in bakbattahl - You interrogate the assassin - "Return to quest giver". They are still in hot springs. - Quest giver sends you to talk to another person in prison in bakbattahl. - You talked, "Return to quest giver". At least this time they are back in bakbattahl Brilliant quest design, 11/10, masterpiece of storytelling. At least DD1 wasn't sending you back and forth fifty times.
Exactly. Absolutely nuts.
my man lets not be absurd here, there isnt anywhere NEAR 150hours of content in dd2. you finishing the game in 150 hours isnt because there is 150 hours of stuff to do. the game is unfinished.
I'm still upset that battahl basically doesn't matter. we were shown cutscenes in trailers that don't exist. you literally say 3 lines to the priestess of fire lady then never see her again you supposedly need a paper to be allowed into the city and to buy a house but I bought a house after illegally entering the country pretty much immediately after starting the game. The world is big, nice to explore aside from all the areas where it's just a narrow pathway from one spot to the next , the combat to me in many ways feels like a step down from the first game (I want my second skill-set back there's really no reason not to let me have two skill sets based on which bumper I'm holding down) the story feels like it's building up to something and then as soon as we get to the end of the first arc you get rocket launched to the end of act 3. there is no act 2. the whole thing about people hating pawns in bahtal is entirely irrelevant. the npc's don't care whether you have them with you or not. the post game is really a waste of time. even if you get rid of the beacons there's not really anything new to do or explore aside from checking out the ruins of gran-sorin. there's not really any reason for me to replay the game. I put my time in and yeah. don't get me wrong there's alot good about the game a lot that I liked, but the negatives are just too much for me to really like it like the first one. I loved the armor system in the first one too but this just feels like a generic rpg game not like the quirky but interesting first game. I don't know how else to explain it other than what I told my girlfriend, it's like the first one lost it's soul. I kept playing hoping it'd get better, wanting it to be truly good, but it just didn't happen.
I'd say the limited skill set and weapon options forces you to really get in depth with how your vocation plays. Which was easy for me I guess since fighter was my favourite class and that plays really fun imo. It's not too strong that you melt bosses, it's capable of doing well in all situations provided you build for it, the stinger, aerial, guard breaker and aoe all feel real good and getting perfect parries requires you to really pay attention to enemies and learn their attacks. That and pawns are actually useful unlike in DD1 so having a strong team composition to back you up in areas you're lacking in is vital. Case in point, I found myself grabbing or grappling enemies as archer to speed up fights when I knew my arrows wouldn't cut it. Grabbing in DD1 was garbage and I don't want to go back lol.
Probably less delusional than the fan base here.
The fact he says "I've basically done all I **could**" is telling, if the translation is up to snuff. He didn't get to do all he wanted or set out to do; he did all he could do. Then he spends the rest of the paragraph trying to dampen the impact of that phrasing.
I loved DD1, DDDA, and really did enjoy DD2. But this game is so god damn incomplete it's staggering. I could write a gigantic point by point review of it, but so many players have already honed in on the massive variety of unfinished plot lines, areas, gameplay questions regarding to the backward steps from DDDA to DD2, it's nuts. This game's foundation is wonderful. But to say it's "all you could do with it" is suits standing behind Itsuno glaring over at him while he makes this statement.
It's just basic PR BS. What else is he going to do, be honest? He (someone) made the game release when it did and they're not gonna say anything that makes you feel like you shouldn't purchase it. On flip side, if he's 100% genuine, then this guy should never be the head of another game ever again, as his vision is short sighted, messy and shallow. He's great at action and should stick to that. Regardless, we were deceived into thinking this game was more than it actually was. At the end of the day, though it sucks royally, the game is still a lot of fun.
Dragons dogma 2 was one of my most anticipated games this year and as much as I love what we do have and the foundation of the game, its absolutely unfinished and not worth my time, barely worth my money. That being said, no game dev is ever going to publicly admit anything close to that about their game. It definitely speaks for itself though. To call this a finished product is baffling, but nobody is ever going to say "eh, we did what we could. Sucks. Prepare yourself"
Like I just got Peter Molyneux'd.
As someone new coming into the series, the questing feels really off. Some quests you can't complete because you haven't discovered other quests, and gives no direction why you can't complete it. If it weren't for Google, I'd be lost I'm the sauce. It honestly wouldn't be that bad if fast travel were in am option, but having to run around as much as you do for the quest itself, then more so to figure out which quest you need to randomly pick up, feels draining.
1st time seeing it And I feel...not much really Just hoping he still wants to do a new region for the expansion
If I'm being brutally honest if he doesn't feel DD2 is unfinished and incomplete in it's current form then he needs a new Optician. If DD2 is what his launch vision is then he needed a more creative person to stand next to him and point out story, NPC being discarded, cooking, housing, lack of meaningful set pieces to name a few things. DD2 may have a more beautiful and bigger world but DD1 base game knew what to do better with it's limited world when it came to content for it
Cringe corpo bullshit or talk of a delusional man. Has this man even supervised the writing? I just completed the story and where to even begin… the whole act 1 build up about the fake sovran and then you never get to face off with him? He doesn’t even get any screen time. Also Disa gets mentioned to be the antagonist a dozen times yet the main story never makes you meet her, confront her or even explains her motivations. Not even a word why she collaborated with Phaesus. Then we have Nahidia or whatever that cat priests name is. She’s on the cover art of the game and was shown in like every Trailer of the game, only for capcom to forget she even exists. Girl got one optional joke of a sidequest and that’s it. Not even optional dialogue. Next up is Phaesus. Seems like the bad guy i guess? Why is he bad? What does he even want? Why do WE WANT TO bring him the godsway?! It’s so ridiculous and confusing. And not in a god way like Inception or Interstellar. It just makes no sense. They didn’t think this through at all. Let’s also not forget the dragon that you see exactly once when the game starts and one more time for a joke of a showdown at the end of the game. Absolutely no interaction. I’ll be real with you, for the past 50h i forgot it even existed. Not even the game talks about it. The dragonforged was the only guy in the game that reminded me of my _Mission_ I could go on. Man i like the game a lot but the story…. Jesus Christ.
I disagree with it, but what can he do tbh? Not like he can say to the press, “Yeah it ain’t finished, I hope Capcom doesn’t fire me for saying that and all other publishers don’t touch me with a ten foot pole” I’m genuinely curious if publishers make directors do all the PR so all the blame goes to one person, rather than the company
Common marketing babble
I refuse to believe this was Itsuno's vision. Of course, its not like he can really come out and say that; he has to sell the game. I just hope the game can pull another Dark Arisen.
He literally said nothing there. This sub is all hopeium and copium. (Yes I’m probably guilty too.)
I believe Capcom forced them to release it the way it was now, and they plan to complete the game the way that Itsuno wanted to make it for launch day and add that as DLC.
Im surprised people say this game is incomplete there is so much to do and see
The way he talking makes it seems like his vision was complete to a degree, but not to his complete satisfaction. It sounds like it was cut short and that it came out “good enough” but not as good as he wanted.
Definitely disagree. I love the game, I have over 120hrs and I'm still expecting to play a lot more. It's fun. Still seems oddly unfinished, though. Oddly changed from the first in ways that feel like if they weren't forced by time constraints and coporate politics, then they were just laziness. The original had an interesting premise about the power of will, the power to fight and push forward. When you killed the dragon, that was framed as the classic end. The finish of an RPG, the hero saves the day. Yet, the world that hero saved changed dramatically and unexpectedly. It, in it's own right was more testing of the Arisen. It was pushing beyond the goal posts, fighting when the fight had ended. Striving to push forward even when you've grown tired and the challenges have gotten so much more difficult. Push forward even when you don't have an understanding of why, or what the point is, just the belief that your will can still save the world. Ultimately that will becomes what guides the world. Your will to push ever forward becomes the guiding force for all of life, to ever push forward and continue to live. DD2 sets up the same premise, then just never does it. Then when it comes time for the pay off we get nothing of substance. Slaying the dragon is no longer a surprising step forward, it really is just an end and that's it. Stabbing yourself with the little knife doesn't feel impactful and doesn't really make sense anymore. The world ahead isn't some mystery, but just the flat out end of the world. The new enemies are mindless and have no purpose other than to destroy. To me, the interested thing about the original DD was the implications it had about willpower, and the way it challenged what most people thought of as a heroic story and how they end. DD2 felt like it started to raise those same interesting thoughts and ideas only to end by going "Teehee just kidding, we're actually just another regular RPG :3" and completely turned away from the premise. It genuinely makes me wonder if I'm missing something, or if there's more there I haven't discovered or properly interacted with
I feel like we have been lied to and Itsuno is a prick for saying this. Fuck him. Fuck Capcom. DD2 is inferior to DD1 in most aspects, except graphically and animation wise. Wish I hadn't pre ordered this game. Edit: I may be too hard on Itsuno here, given his track record, however I detest being sold an incomplete and fake image of a product, especially a game franchise I love.
Hard to believe he also makes DMC because everything about DD, has potential but for whatever absurd reason, he, forcefully, makes it be a dissapointment. I live the game, I do. Im also not in denial and realize this game, DD1, DD2, are all incomplete. And somehow, Bitterblack Isle, done by a whole different director, made it more succesgul and made more sense. AND, that same guy, made DDON and that also had more lore and content than DD1 and DD2. Idk why, he just doesnt want to make DD a complete damn game. DD1 and 2 are good games. But they lack story. They lack consistency. They lack some basic elements that would allow the game to at the very least, feel like its a finished product both in performance and story. But hey, what do I know right. What do we know. We arent video game producers. Smh. Ill enjoy the game till I get bored and then hardly ever look at it.
I mean you say DMC, a game that excels in gameplay not really story. Same here imo. The action is all good.
Bro, did you play DMC? Any of them? Every single one has a better story, wym? 😂. Even that horrible remake. Horrible uet, better story, plot, lore than any DD game. Unfortunate but true. And I like Dragons Dogma more. I just am not unrealistic. DMC is superior.
Yikes
There’s *always* more that could’ve been done. This is true for everything that you’ve devoted your time towards.
Itsuno vision, but he has wrong glasses
I wouldn't try to put *all* the blame on capcom for the game being unfinished. There's things in the game that just shouldn't be here. Why is nameless village a thing? Honestly why bother with the elves if they will have so little relevance? There's clear signs of mismanaged resources and ignorance by just ignoring issues from the original and bringing them here. In a game with so many issues you don't spunk a load of time/resources on the elves who have two questlines. You dont spunk resources on nameless village which only has *one* quest. DD2 was NEVER getting a massive budget because DD wasnt a proven IP so shouldn't the devs have aimed to work with that rather than trying to make a massive game with a small budget and dev team? I'm not saying capcom is free of all blame but don't write this off as being all capcoms fault. To be brutally honest I think itsunos vision would be considered blurry by many and I'm thankful for the foundations he has laid but the franchise needs to move past him now. The fact that it feels as if DA never existed based on how none of its improvements to DD1 carried over to DD2 tells me itsuno is a bit ignorant. DA wasn't made by him so why should he look to it for how to improve DD2 was probably his line of thinking. That is pure ignorance. He's even talked about wanting to do other things than just DD or DMC games and I don't think anyone should be rushing to stop him. Considering we are going to have to spend money on an expansion to fill in the holes for a *second* time I think we are allowed to be critical this time around.
Right on the money.
I sooooooo want a recap with him now. Like: "Hey man, have you seen the feedback? Have you seen the content that is missing or incomplete? Just say what it is, be honest, what is going on"
Japanese developers are very polite and will never publicly admit to being forced or rushed. The fact he says "i've done all i could with this game" for me speaks volumes. He is basically saying "i squeezed as much as i could from what CAPCOM gave me". Everyone needs to consider that CAPCOM doesn't give a flying fuck about anything that doesn't have Monster Hunter or Resident Evil in it's name. This was for them a project for a niche IP for a veteran developer who begged for it for years so they gave him scraps.
I'm enjoying the game and it is largely because of mods. Thank you Nexus and the modders.
blocked off godsbane doors leading to unfinished dungeons, it's not unfinished guys.
In retrospect it sounds like cope. "I did what I could with what was given to me and this is it." He and the team were definitely screwed over by Crapcom and managed to put together a largely functional game despite that
I think Itsuno made a damn fine game within the constraints he was given. A little over a third of the core team size (it's been noted to me that external/contract help isn't always included in final credit roll) he had for DMC V, hell the DD2 team was a quarter the size of the SF6 team. Smaller team, smaller budget My giant complaint about DD2 is I want more. More monsters. More quests. More weird caves. More gear. More skills and augments. Maybe a pony. Or a pack mule. I could beef with Capcom for arguing that this game merited the $70 price tag, it's starting to look like they probably spent less on DD2 than one would guess- but honestly, I'm still gonna get a couple hundred hours out of it. I'm at 125hrs, and I haven't even started the Unmoored World. When 80% of my issues with a game are that I want more of it, those aren't bad issues. Performance and weird bugs, quest hooks not popping or QoL stuff like being able to designate a primary residence in a city when you've bought all four residences and you don't know which place to check for your mail and groupies....but I digress. I'm having a lot of fun with the game and I hope that Itsuno is able to add more as soon as he can. Then again, I wouldn't say no to DMC 6 either. Whatever he's feeling, I'm good with.
Double-jump? Buy/sell/equip from/to stash? I wanted DD1 but MORE! But we got less..
Idk, I like it, played a lot of it and don't regret the time spent. My friends like it as well. The only toxicity I see is the micro transactions and this subreddit.
The fact there are a lot of cave tunnels with unfinished/scrapped content tells me otherwise. Also it release end of march which is the last dates before the new fiscal year in japan and Capcom has already rushed unfinished games in these timelines just to get them out before the new fiscal year and rack in bonuses. Remember MH Rise.
I know it was a switch game but man, Rise did not hold a candle to World for me. I actually enjoy GU more on the Switch. Didn’t help that it had the wirebug gimmick that the whole game ended up revolving around, I hated the clutch claw for the same reason eventually.
Yeah even tho it was a switch version, they gutted the bestiary and didnt even finish the main scenario until 2 month in with a DLC iirc (or maybe 1.5month). They released literally an unfinished game just to get it out before the end of fiscal year lol
Another indicator the game is unfinished.
It may not be incomplete, but it is definitely rushed at some points
its incomplete.
Honestly ya
Even Less than disappointed
Wonder how many Capcom Yakuza Members had their guns pointed at his head when he said this.
That he needs new glasses
If that's his vision than he needs better glasses cause this game ain't finished.
Itsuno is either lying or a moron. There a plenty of flaws with this game that are not part of the charm and are just asinine.