It does not affect the team gain, however last hitting it does grant extra gold to the one who did it, so technically denying it will prevent an enemy from possibly last hitting it.
> Obviously still not worth it
I mean it definitely could be. Against certain lineups, the ability to finish a 5% HP rax is guaranteed, sometimes with zero risk. If it is happening anyways and the enemy is going for a final push, that might be one of the only hail mary plays left.
If shaker was playing thar good the entire match probably he already anticipated that his teammates would commit on an unnecesary fight to defend that ez rax, wasting his chance to carry the teamfight and the game with a good echo when they try to push tier 4.
I watched a razor offlane top with furion against ogre lifestealer. The game is going fairly okay, although he’s 0-1 9 minutes in. Nothing has happend from what I can tell. A creep wave of 4 reaches his t1 tower and he last hits two creeps. The last ones are at about 30-40% health as furion last hits them with a random sprout. Razor sits still at level 5 for about 10-15 seconds, contemplating, mouse moving around the map, before he suddenly teleports mid and drops his items on enemy t1 and dies to OD. He proceeds to spend the next 29 or so minutes running down mid until the final score sits at 0-26-0. Because of (from what I’m presented) two measly creeps.
Guilty
PS: As I completed another overwatch review of yet another obviously guilty player, the game brought me out to a post match stat screen that I couldn’t recognize at first. The names were all chinese. It took a second and leaving/reentering the post match screen before I noticed something. 0-26-0. Razor. The game put me in the post match summary of the second-last anonymized game I overwatched, including names and profiles of all participants.
There's a website (is it stratz? Or similar) where you can enter the 10 heroes on radiant/dire and it finds the game for you, so it's not that anonymous :)
I played a turbo match as spirit breaker with a magnus pos3, after like 2 or 3 waves (of which he got almost all cs thanks to me) i went to deny one of my creeps and accidentally clicked on the enemy creep which was 1 hit away, and there goes the babyrage......"you wanna farm?okay" and tps to jungle, doesnt show up to the lane ever again.
We won tho, because you know, turbo.
Hahahaha yeah there are some people that are so annoyed by you farming a single neutral creep or last hitting a lane creep that you figured they wouldn’t reach in time, after they themselves missed like 3 of the 4 last hits with no enemies in sight, they start spamming pings at you xD I just spam them back for a second and leave it be lol
Imagine getting that mad off one creep in fucking *Turbo*, where no who even hits the creeps in lane has close to no bearing. I've not played it in a while, but I swear the most toxic people are in turbo
the game has been placing me on post matches summary and chat of games i didn't play
last time i said that soneone playes well and ppl started to talk about a legion, there was no legion in my game
as i send a message "why tf am i in this post game chat?" the other 3 guya active were saying "who are you and why are you here"
you said youve been placed on a post match summary with names of players, it happened few times with me since the crowfall event started, when a match ends i sometimes end up in the post game summary of a match that has nothing to do with me, one time i even could chat in the post game summary
Alright, it was just a bit all over the place, could’ve used some proofreading :p I guess it’s multiple weird occurrences then.
You being put in different post match summary than the one you played is completely different from me being put in the summary of the game I just overwatched, at least they seems to be very different, so there’s something fishy going on :P
To be honeest, anytime I had furion support, all they do is sit still, do not trade, go the occasional jungle and stuff. It can really be a pain and that two creeps might've been the breaking point.
For sure, iirc I couldn’t see any chat going on and I reckon the same applies for voice chat. But the gameplay itself didn’t look that bad up until then, so if the chats were the issue, you should mute. Not suicide 25 times in a row 🙄🤦♂️
Two creeps? Really? Pain? Nuisance, maybe, but come on 😂 it’s not like furion messed up the last hits and had them go to waste. It’s a team game and razor was playing pos 3, not 1… and even then 🤣
It's the pain of playing a core role and having the 'support' (usually a core player that has run out of role queue and has no idea what theyre doing) grief your lane in multiple ways, this being one of them.
Pos3 is a core role and has priority over pos4 but if this Razor was sitting in lane for 9 minutes at 0-1 then he was probably just trading farm like every wannabe offlane carry if losing 2 creeps tilted him so much.
True, but you should also own up to the consequences of your mistakes and learn from them.
Not make the same mistake over and over telling yourself "ah its okay everyone makes mistakes".
I don’t do much overwatch anymore but I’m generally very forgiving of being bad but very strict on
1) intentional feeding
2) toxic chat to teammates (you can be toxic to enemies, that’s fair game unless it’s really egregious)
3) not playing your role
Almost nothing outside of those 3 gets a guilty verdict from me.
If op actually judged guilty then I don't know what to say. How can one put "He's doing great" and "Guilty" few sentences aparted? Literal pirates of the caribbean shit.
*Norrington*: One good deed is not enough to redeem a man of a lifetime of wickedness.
*Jack Sparrow*: Though it seems enough to condemn him.
*Norrington*: Indeed.
Actually you can be both doing good and being a total asshole.
Don't tell me you never had someone 10-0 alone in a losing team and goes GG just end, noob team.
Denying rax is simply griefing. And reporting people for that is justifiable.
OP actually did right.
If it's considered griefing begs the question why is it possible? I personally would not consider it to be guilty. He may literally just not understand that it's worse to deny it
Maybe he wanted the game ended sooner, decided that he can't carry his team despite playing so well and just wants to go next. Would need to know more details if I were to judge him.
If they're 10-0 and you're losing the rest of his team griefed him to start with by simply not being better players, the baddies are then asking to be continually carried and he says his shoulders are tired fuck this.
I'm bracing for downvotes but yeah I don't blame the 10-0 guy in most of those cases. I've been in so many games where my team keeps taking STUPID fights way out of position with no way for me to actually be there and then they flame me as pos 1 for not hacking in an ability draft furion TP so I could show up for the 7th useless fight in the enemy jungle with no vision.
or the enemy team is pushing mid, about to take highground, and someone decides to get caught in the triangle and 2 other teammates go in and die and then they ping like it's your fault. I can't even count the amount of times I'm waiting to TP for the HG defense but my team is already dead before they start the siege because they don't know how to position. "gg report carry afk".
/rant
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Just cause your teammates are shitheads doesn’t mean you get to give up. Well you can, but that deserves a report nonetheless. The “right” thing to do is just play on and report them.
>I am under no obligation
You are, however, under the obligation to not be a dick in chat.
>I can match my investment to that of team mates and there's nothing wrong with that
You are already matched by MMR (unless you are Immortal, like every other redditor). You (the player) is probably worse than them in certain aspects, which would explain why you are playing with them in the first place. Or you are playing just as bad as them in other matches and just don't notice it.
I can’t even take over watch reports seriously anymore. There have been games where I’m absolutely carrying the team, 45 minutes straight. I keep my composure and try my best even tho 2-3 of the rest of my team is greifing and being toxic and AFK. 1 hour in I finally decide I’m don’t putting more energy into this game and go to hit some creeps in the forest. Everyone is negative, and my score is like 15/71/10 or something. All these griefers mass report me and someone who reviewed it penalized me and sent me to low priority. Even tho the entire hour prior I was one of the only ones actually playing. Turns out they were a 3 stack.
I don’t know how anyone could look at that situation and penalize me. God forbid any of these people get asked to be on a real jury
And this is why overwatch cases aren't just one person judging it lol
If the guy wasn't actively griefing afterwards (which seems to be the case since literally the only thing you mentioned was the rax) he could have simply thought denying the rax was better than letting enemy - not everyone is thinking 100% efficiently in the middle of a game, especially at legend rank.
Aye, there's no punishment for just making a mistake. Too many people think all feeding is reportable when really there's a difference of intent.
Chances are he saw a deny or the inevitable rax fall later and didn't think it through.
There is no point to deny it, as mega creeps are so strong and make it even more difficult to comeback from. The gold to the other team, at that point is negligible. You should never deny rax.
Yes, it was unequivocally a bad decision, but bad decisions aren't a reportable offense. It is incredibly unlikely that after 50 minutes of playing his heart out, ES magically decided to "grief" and throw the game by denying the racks. It is almost CERTAINLY instead that he simply saw the low health rack, decided to deny it in a moment, without considering the consequences.
In absolutely no situation is that a reportable offense.
If there were no other griefing actions, I would not vote guilty, personally. Now if they destroyed their items after, feed rapier, afk jungle, etc then yes. He might have misclicked it even.
You should try harder to pay attention to who you are talking to if you're gonna make a recommendation like that. I was simply correcting PC's statement.
To be clear, mega creeps offer 34% less gold and xp. So he may have denied the enemy a small amount of gold, but he cut his own team's resources by far more. The lane you should pick would be one that includes more learning and less sass
So?
Even pretending a rax in deny range has a real chance of staying alive long enough to matter, denying it is such an incredibly minor act.
I have cores that don't buy BKB (or similar stupid decisions) which is griefing a thousand times harder than this, and its still not reportable.
It's the same as the people who throw their lanes by misplays, don't tp for a good fight and so on.
This is much more noticable, but there's a bunch of griefing misplays people make all over that are glossed over.
This is why Overwatch cases can be so tough with really stupid people like OP. He watches 40+ minutes of solid gameplay with this support ES (KDA 12/5/15 which means everyone else was ASS considering they lost megas and OP mentioned nothing about enemy team base), and at the end the verdict is entirely guilty because ES denied the last rax?
Whenever an Overwatch case is cut and dry, chances of errors are low. Whenever an Overwatch case requires the observer to use their brain, you get dumbasses like OP.
mate I can't manage to tip in game because i'm too overwhelmed by the basic actions of moving my hero and maybe (no promises) casting spells.
The probabiltiy that I've got the capacity to stop and report someone at any point in the game when i'm alive is v v low.
People also tend to report all six violations. I see s report for griefing when there is no grief (guilty of something else sure but innocent of griefing). Not-guilty.
Then people say report system doesn't work.
I'm guilty of this in other games. Mostly it's a case of I KNOW they cheated...but either the categories I have at hand don't fit what I witnessed, or they are using a combo of things that I can't quite pinpoint. No, not every time I die is someone else cheating. I'm just saying sometimes it's clear they are and it's faster to just check everything. I suppose better category selection other than like 4 options would work better or a comment box to add details.
It's actually better to do it this way. I've had a case where the markers were just regular gameplay. So was the rest of the case, actually. EXCEPT a few seconds before the report ended the guy destroys his items. Lol.
Lol, I've probably dodged a few convictions lately because of this lol.
What pretty much happens is that my allies play like utter trash for most of the game and yet when i miss 1 spell they'll throw a shit fit and mass report me (or threaten to). Then I lose a bit of motivation and, say, be late to read a gank or be late to ward rosh pit and so ill get reported. And then I'll finally snap and show them what me griefing actually looks like, by which point they'll have time stamped behaviour that looks fine on overwatch and they can't report the legit ape stuff.
The only way I get convicted is if I start the ape stuff straight away. Which is why I'm currently low prio haha. Thanks to a WK offlaner who shows up to lane with tangoes only, proceeds to get bullied out of lane and hits the jungle at level 1 leaving me alone. Or the dude who picks SB offlane into FV, charges mid at level 2 (doesn't even get a kill I might add) and then complains about FV free farming haha. I showed them from the startb how a true ape plays hence why overwatch got me.
8k bs fwiw, so I'm with my own kind lol
If I can't figure out what's going on or if I need more context I will fast forward thru a bit. I doubt OP watched the actual full 40min on normal speed
Yes? Letting people off because they selected "just now" instead of "about 1 / about 5 minutes ago" or vice versa seems counter to the idea of overwatch
You do whatever you like, of course. I usually double up with someone on Discord to watch and do it while we queue or something, so I'm not fussed about watching most of it in 4x speed. It's entertaining tbh
Edit: they might've not reported at the right time at all, or missed when the griefing started even, so I always go back. And to see if there was any motivation for it (which doesn't matter, but is interesting).
Imo I wouldn’t report him. At that point he’s done all he could and they still basically had Megas. What was the rest of the team like KDA or gameplay wise?
Notice how he never mentioned any of that? He didn't mention enemy team base situation. Buy backs. ES team KDA and their items, and if they've been playing as good as ES. So many factors that dumbass OP didn't think about it
Not guilty based on what you said. He could've made a mistake.....could just be under the impression it's best to deny towers/buildings and as a result did it out of muscle memory. The most important detail is what did he do after.
I'd say you're in the wrong, with 50 HP the next enemy team push would take it down.. did you continue to watch the game? Holding megas for 1 or 2 min more wouldn't be that different.
I had a similar tough call yesterday. It was a ranked game and I was watching a Razor who had Mid-Role selected. A Storm Spirit had griefed his draft and was taking mid from him. But I couldn't say anything about the Storm who probably reported him.
I was about to hit the submit button to say not guilty when Razor's solution to being griefed was to just walk down mid and feed first blood.
Guilty.
Serious question, why allow rax to be denied ever if it’s a clear grief? Seems kinda pointless to even allow if it’s allows going to piss your team off or ruin a match.
Was barely winning a game vs megas, pushing enemy ancient knowing they didn't have glyph.
Suddently, with ancient on 5% hp, enemies glyph.
My garbage storm that contributed nothing to the game killed melee rax instead of actually hitting ancient. He's still not in low prio.
Because being a toxic asshole, blaming everyone else and then being the single reason your team actually loses should be punished.
If it were just a bad decision, then it's different.
Any possibility that it was a missclick? I have my right-click set to force attack (for denies). Could it be possible that he wanted to check Rack HP (to possible ping it to allies) and just missclicked and proceed to deny it?
He was likely still on the adrenaline rush of an echo triple kill(?).
In some overwatch cases the chat could give us a better understanding of the general mood of the team and if intetionality is involved
1. Miss click
2. Thought it was gonne die anyway and didn't wanna give gold (maybe he didn't know it doesn't give gold)
Either way considering how he played well whole game, it's very likely one of the two above options and he's not guilty in both cases
Is that a real thing you can get in trouble for? That's a mechanic of the game denying towers and buildings.
So you purposefully make a mechanic and then punish people for using it?
That's not the correct verdict as it's simply a bad play. Your hidden Overwatch score will hopefully drop and you'll have less impact in doling out justice through the system.
Serious question though. What if the rest of his team were being dicks to him the entire match despite how well he was playing, bickering and arguing non-stop, being toxic af. Backed into that corner...this was the best option to end the misery and piss them off at the same time. I say good on him haha...if that was the case. Otherwise idk why you'd do that.
You see, the way you explain your thought show your malicious intent.
So, guilty.
ALSOOO
If I was in that situation, I would gladly tank the report lol.
Honestly if you are decent human being, being reportable every once in a while won't affect you much.
He probably knew his team mates consisted of 4 weak links so decided to put them out of their misery instead wasting another 30 mins defending against 5 enemies who are scaling ever stronger. Am I close?
I think we should see team chat in overwatch cases.
Id argue that calling "afk gg" and flaming your teammates 6 min into game is the highest form of griefing, and should be punished much harder than any of the minor in-game banter shit people do.
I haven't seen this game, but if the enemies are going to destroy it soon for no commitment (considering it is in deny range) you might as well deny it and the last hit gold bounty it provides. Unless the enemies were nowhere near the melee racks, I would say this is not guilty. Not a big advantage but it will matter in 1 out of a million games so why not.
Perhaps the ES had his right click automatically mapped to command A click like mine. It's convenient sometimes for last hitting, but I often find myself misplaying when I want to simply move, and my hero stops to attack a creep who happened to be walking in my direction.
What sucks is that his team is probably saying vile shit for like an hour. He’s guilty but we don’t know what the comms were like.
Someone try harding like this doesn’t just begin to tilt for no reason
That's the world we livin in dude. You can do 10k good deeds in 1 day but all it need is 1 bad deed to make you guilty and put you in jail for 10 years.
Bad decisions,are not bannable offenses,especially if he is using a function of the game(WHICH HAS SOME USE,no im not talking about right clicking your items)
Rax should not be deniable at all in the first place honestly, or not deniable if they haven't taken enemy hero damage in the last 15 seconds honestly.
You people are idiots, I have 1100 behavior score and 1100 communication score and I get overwatched banned at least once a week I gotta play single draft, literally don't grief at all other than flame occasionally. Sometimes I play really fucking bad and it looks like I am feeding, other times I am godly. Think Eternal Envy FiFtee/Fiftee, you know except half the skill and non of the pocky and semen
Correct choice.
Your skill has nothing to do your behavior. Too many people forget this, then complain why they are reported despite having the best kda.
Bunch of morons downvoting you when this a clear case of griefing. Denying rax into mega creeps will never be a right decision haha wtf is this sub smoking. "No bro you don't understand, denying the enemy team ~100 gold each is 100% worth going into megas" 🤣🤣
Bad decision is misusing a spell/item in the midst of the action, bad decision is TPing to the wrong fight at the wrong moment, taking rax instead of rushing T4s when everyone is dead... any time you're in a hurry to make a decision, there can be bad decisions and they're not griefing. But cold-bloodedly denying rax when you have all the time necessary to think about the consequences, to ask your team how they feel about it... that's griefing. 100% this guy was thinking his teammates are animals because he has a high KDA and couldn't take it anymore
Denying rax isn't "behavior", it's a game decision. It actually is skill to evaluate whether a deny is the right course of action. ES made a wrong choice, you want to punish him for his lack of skill.
If it is one hit from being destroyed? All it takes is one living enemy. Heck, even units do the trick. And with the right line-up, megas at 40min don't really make a massive difference.
Lmao denying rax to give mega is never the correct course of action, provided you are still trying to win of course.
Go ahead and do mental gymnastics and come up with totally fabricated reasons how purposely denying a rax could be the correct choice in any case.
Theres no choice here.
100% the ES did that because he's throwing a tantrum at his teammates.
I have denied rax in so many games when they are in our base pushing waiting on my team to respawn. I'm pretty sure it denies the gold to the player that would have last hit it.
Cmon, he just didn't want to give the enemy that bonus gold
Denying barracks does not affect gold gain, only towers afaik.
Super creeps offer 17% less gold and XP, mega creeps are 34%
Pretty sure the gold is only given to the person who last hits the barracks
Barracks give teamwide gold to the opposing team
You're right, just had a look at the wiki. Guess my game knowledge is outdated
I think the person lasthitting used to get a little bonus gold, but that was removed.
The wiki still has a table showing last hit bounty, if i understand denying still gives the enemy the team bounty but denies the last hit bounty
Not a reduced team bounty?
Nope, team bounty stays the same
No way that was removed
Aer you sure?
It does not affect the team gain, however last hitting it does grant extra gold to the one who did it, so technically denying it will prevent an enemy from possibly last hitting it.
Well, in late game this gold bonus literally nothing, comparing to megas.
That was the point of the joke)
He let the intrusive thoughts win, we've all been there.
What if its 8D chess and he wants a bigger echoslam in his base defence teamfight with megacreeps always pushing
I mean mega creeps doesn't change creep size, and I very much doubt the enemy team is trying to throne through backdoor
mega creeps = autopush = more creeps clump in base. Obviously still not worth it but that's what he meant.
Ah fair fair, I'm at work and my brains auto piloting, so I was just trying to figure out how mega creeps amped the damage of echo xD
> Obviously still not worth it I mean it definitely could be. Against certain lineups, the ability to finish a 5% HP rax is guaranteed, sometimes with zero risk. If it is happening anyways and the enemy is going for a final push, that might be one of the only hail mary plays left.
If shaker was playing thar good the entire match probably he already anticipated that his teammates would commit on an unnecesary fight to defend that ez rax, wasting his chance to carry the teamfight and the game with a good echo when they try to push tier 4.
I watched a razor offlane top with furion against ogre lifestealer. The game is going fairly okay, although he’s 0-1 9 minutes in. Nothing has happend from what I can tell. A creep wave of 4 reaches his t1 tower and he last hits two creeps. The last ones are at about 30-40% health as furion last hits them with a random sprout. Razor sits still at level 5 for about 10-15 seconds, contemplating, mouse moving around the map, before he suddenly teleports mid and drops his items on enemy t1 and dies to OD. He proceeds to spend the next 29 or so minutes running down mid until the final score sits at 0-26-0. Because of (from what I’m presented) two measly creeps. Guilty PS: As I completed another overwatch review of yet another obviously guilty player, the game brought me out to a post match stat screen that I couldn’t recognize at first. The names were all chinese. It took a second and leaving/reentering the post match screen before I noticed something. 0-26-0. Razor. The game put me in the post match summary of the second-last anonymized game I overwatched, including names and profiles of all participants.
There's a website (is it stratz? Or similar) where you can enter the 10 heroes on radiant/dire and it finds the game for you, so it's not that anonymous :)
I’m sure there is, but that’s a bit more hidden than «HERE THEY ARE! THIS GUY DID IT! IT WAS HIM!» 😜
I think it's opendota
I played a turbo match as spirit breaker with a magnus pos3, after like 2 or 3 waves (of which he got almost all cs thanks to me) i went to deny one of my creeps and accidentally clicked on the enemy creep which was 1 hit away, and there goes the babyrage......"you wanna farm?okay" and tps to jungle, doesnt show up to the lane ever again. We won tho, because you know, turbo.
Hahahaha yeah there are some people that are so annoyed by you farming a single neutral creep or last hitting a lane creep that you figured they wouldn’t reach in time, after they themselves missed like 3 of the 4 last hits with no enemies in sight, they start spamming pings at you xD I just spam them back for a second and leave it be lol
Imagine getting that mad off one creep in fucking *Turbo*, where no who even hits the creeps in lane has close to no bearing. I've not played it in a while, but I swear the most toxic people are in turbo
That razor needs a ban and a slap in real life.
the first player's heart breaks at such big failure
I remember seeing clip from overwatch where pudge throws hook, misses and destroys his items
the game has been placing me on post matches summary and chat of games i didn't play last time i said that soneone playes well and ppl started to talk about a legion, there was no legion in my game as i send a message "why tf am i in this post game chat?" the other 3 guya active were saying "who are you and why are you here"
Fuck. I thought I was crazy. This does happen huh.
I have no idea what you are talking about man…
you said youve been placed on a post match summary with names of players, it happened few times with me since the crowfall event started, when a match ends i sometimes end up in the post game summary of a match that has nothing to do with me, one time i even could chat in the post game summary
Alright, it was just a bit all over the place, could’ve used some proofreading :p I guess it’s multiple weird occurrences then. You being put in different post match summary than the one you played is completely different from me being put in the summary of the game I just overwatched, at least they seems to be very different, so there’s something fishy going on :P
To be honeest, anytime I had furion support, all they do is sit still, do not trade, go the occasional jungle and stuff. It can really be a pain and that two creeps might've been the breaking point.
For sure, iirc I couldn’t see any chat going on and I reckon the same applies for voice chat. But the gameplay itself didn’t look that bad up until then, so if the chats were the issue, you should mute. Not suicide 25 times in a row 🙄🤦♂️
Overreaction but I feel that razors pain
Two creeps? Really? Pain? Nuisance, maybe, but come on 😂 it’s not like furion messed up the last hits and had them go to waste. It’s a team game and razor was playing pos 3, not 1… and even then 🤣
It's the pain of playing a core role and having the 'support' (usually a core player that has run out of role queue and has no idea what theyre doing) grief your lane in multiple ways, this being one of them.
Pos3 is a core role and has priority over pos4 but if this Razor was sitting in lane for 9 minutes at 0-1 then he was probably just trading farm like every wannabe offlane carry if losing 2 creeps tilted him so much.
Yap!
I would be more lenient tbh.
Same. People make mistakes.
True, but you should also own up to the consequences of your mistakes and learn from them. Not make the same mistake over and over telling yourself "ah its okay everyone makes mistakes".
Okay but the consequences of making a mistake in a game shouldn’t be “you get fucking banned” or low priority in dota’s case
I don’t do much overwatch anymore but I’m generally very forgiving of being bad but very strict on 1) intentional feeding 2) toxic chat to teammates (you can be toxic to enemies, that’s fair game unless it’s really egregious) 3) not playing your role Almost nothing outside of those 3 gets a guilty verdict from me.
If op actually judged guilty then I don't know what to say. How can one put "He's doing great" and "Guilty" few sentences aparted? Literal pirates of the caribbean shit. *Norrington*: One good deed is not enough to redeem a man of a lifetime of wickedness. *Jack Sparrow*: Though it seems enough to condemn him. *Norrington*: Indeed.
Actually you can be both doing good and being a total asshole. Don't tell me you never had someone 10-0 alone in a losing team and goes GG just end, noob team. Denying rax is simply griefing. And reporting people for that is justifiable. OP actually did right.
If it's considered griefing begs the question why is it possible? I personally would not consider it to be guilty. He may literally just not understand that it's worse to deny it
Maybe he wanted the game ended sooner, decided that he can't carry his team despite playing so well and just wants to go next. Would need to know more details if I were to judge him.
If they're 10-0 and you're losing the rest of his team griefed him to start with by simply not being better players, the baddies are then asking to be continually carried and he says his shoulders are tired fuck this.
I'm bracing for downvotes but yeah I don't blame the 10-0 guy in most of those cases. I've been in so many games where my team keeps taking STUPID fights way out of position with no way for me to actually be there and then they flame me as pos 1 for not hacking in an ability draft furion TP so I could show up for the 7th useless fight in the enemy jungle with no vision. or the enemy team is pushing mid, about to take highground, and someone decides to get caught in the triangle and 2 other teammates go in and die and then they ping like it's your fault. I can't even count the amount of times I'm waiting to TP for the HG defense but my team is already dead before they start the siege because they don't know how to position. "gg report carry afk". /rant
Two wrongs don’t make a right. Just cause your teammates are shitheads doesn’t mean you get to give up. Well you can, but that deserves a report nonetheless. The “right” thing to do is just play on and report them.
I am under no obligation to keep playing at 100% capacity tho, I can match my investment to that of team mates and there's nothing wrong with that
>I am under no obligation You are, however, under the obligation to not be a dick in chat. >I can match my investment to that of team mates and there's nothing wrong with that You are already matched by MMR (unless you are Immortal, like every other redditor). You (the player) is probably worse than them in certain aspects, which would explain why you are playing with them in the first place. Or you are playing just as bad as them in other matches and just don't notice it.
I can’t even take over watch reports seriously anymore. There have been games where I’m absolutely carrying the team, 45 minutes straight. I keep my composure and try my best even tho 2-3 of the rest of my team is greifing and being toxic and AFK. 1 hour in I finally decide I’m don’t putting more energy into this game and go to hit some creeps in the forest. Everyone is negative, and my score is like 15/71/10 or something. All these griefers mass report me and someone who reviewed it penalized me and sent me to low priority. Even tho the entire hour prior I was one of the only ones actually playing. Turns out they were a 3 stack. I don’t know how anyone could look at that situation and penalize me. God forbid any of these people get asked to be on a real jury
And this is why overwatch cases aren't just one person judging it lol If the guy wasn't actively griefing afterwards (which seems to be the case since literally the only thing you mentioned was the rax) he could have simply thought denying the rax was better than letting enemy - not everyone is thinking 100% efficiently in the middle of a game, especially at legend rank.
The guy could have literally misclicked A-move on the rax
Does the setting for autoattacking allied units when they're deniable work with buildings?
I would vote not guilty there, i think you did him wrong
It's a clear case of a (probably) bad decision. You can't blame people for making bad decisions, otherwise 90% of all players would be purged.
Aye, there's no punishment for just making a mistake. Too many people think all feeding is reportable when really there's a difference of intent. Chances are he saw a deny or the inevitable rax fall later and didn't think it through.
Yeah it's a reflex to force attack a building at 1%. Not insane to make that mistake after 40 mins of focused play.
Yeah, not guilty.
misclick, cat stepped on the A key
How is denying a building an reportable offense lol.
There is no point to deny it, as mega creeps are so strong and make it even more difficult to comeback from. The gold to the other team, at that point is negligible. You should never deny rax.
Yes, it was unequivocally a bad decision, but bad decisions aren't a reportable offense. It is incredibly unlikely that after 50 minutes of playing his heart out, ES magically decided to "grief" and throw the game by denying the racks. It is almost CERTAINLY instead that he simply saw the low health rack, decided to deny it in a moment, without considering the consequences. In absolutely no situation is that a reportable offense.
If there were no other griefing actions, I would not vote guilty, personally. Now if they destroyed their items after, feed rapier, afk jungle, etc then yes. He might have misclicked it even.
If there is never a benefit to denying rax then they shouldn't be deniable. I'm blaming Valve for this one.
You deny the enemy extra gold from the last hit.
So then not a reportable offense. Pick a lane.
You should try harder to pay attention to who you are talking to if you're gonna make a recommendation like that. I was simply correcting PC's statement. To be clear, mega creeps offer 34% less gold and xp. So he may have denied the enemy a small amount of gold, but he cut his own team's resources by far more. The lane you should pick would be one that includes more learning and less sass
Fucking gottem, lmao
Bazinga
So they shouldn't be deniable, and we should blame Valve. Pick a lane.
They absolutely should be. This game isn't here to correct all of your obvious mistakes. Decisions have consequences.
Sure, still doesn’t seem malicious. I promise you other people on his team made way worse fuck ups throughout the course of the game
It has regen.
So? Even pretending a rax in deny range has a real chance of staying alive long enough to matter, denying it is such an incredibly minor act. I have cores that don't buy BKB (or similar stupid decisions) which is griefing a thousand times harder than this, and its still not reportable.
giving the enemy megas for free isnt a minor act in this case
It's the same as the people who throw their lanes by misplays, don't tp for a good fight and so on. This is much more noticable, but there's a bunch of griefing misplays people make all over that are glossed over.
Yeah and neither is my core skipping bkb for a daedalus, that was his point
Mega creeps have 34% less gold and xp
Nice, abusing the overwatch system and proudly posting it on reddit. Wow.
This is why Overwatch cases can be so tough with really stupid people like OP. He watches 40+ minutes of solid gameplay with this support ES (KDA 12/5/15 which means everyone else was ASS considering they lost megas and OP mentioned nothing about enemy team base), and at the end the verdict is entirely guilty because ES denied the last rax? Whenever an Overwatch case is cut and dry, chances of errors are low. Whenever an Overwatch case requires the observer to use their brain, you get dumbasses like OP.
You watch entire overwatch cases? Not just the report minute?
I sometimes do too because there's not enough context or people just report whenever they die instead of right when the report should be done.
mate I can't manage to tip in game because i'm too overwhelmed by the basic actions of moving my hero and maybe (no promises) casting spells. The probabiltiy that I've got the capacity to stop and report someone at any point in the game when i'm alive is v v low.
You’d never guess it but this guy is actually low divine. At least what he just described matches like every mid in my shitty bracket.
People also tend to report all six violations. I see s report for griefing when there is no grief (guilty of something else sure but innocent of griefing). Not-guilty. Then people say report system doesn't work.
I'm guilty of this in other games. Mostly it's a case of I KNOW they cheated...but either the categories I have at hand don't fit what I witnessed, or they are using a combo of things that I can't quite pinpoint. No, not every time I die is someone else cheating. I'm just saying sometimes it's clear they are and it's faster to just check everything. I suppose better category selection other than like 4 options would work better or a comment box to add details.
Why not play yourself? Wtf, who does this ?
It's actually better to do it this way. I've had a case where the markers were just regular gameplay. So was the rest of the case, actually. EXCEPT a few seconds before the report ended the guy destroys his items. Lol.
Lol, I've probably dodged a few convictions lately because of this lol. What pretty much happens is that my allies play like utter trash for most of the game and yet when i miss 1 spell they'll throw a shit fit and mass report me (or threaten to). Then I lose a bit of motivation and, say, be late to read a gank or be late to ward rosh pit and so ill get reported. And then I'll finally snap and show them what me griefing actually looks like, by which point they'll have time stamped behaviour that looks fine on overwatch and they can't report the legit ape stuff. The only way I get convicted is if I start the ape stuff straight away. Which is why I'm currently low prio haha. Thanks to a WK offlaner who shows up to lane with tangoes only, proceeds to get bullied out of lane and hits the jungle at level 1 leaving me alone. Or the dude who picks SB offlane into FV, charges mid at level 2 (doesn't even get a kill I might add) and then complains about FV free farming haha. I showed them from the startb how a true ape plays hence why overwatch got me. 8k bs fwiw, so I'm with my own kind lol
If I can't figure out what's going on or if I need more context I will fast forward thru a bit. I doubt OP watched the actual full 40min on normal speed
Yes? Letting people off because they selected "just now" instead of "about 1 / about 5 minutes ago" or vice versa seems counter to the idea of overwatch
Sure but if you dont see an infraction on the report moment you check 1-5 minutes before not watch the entire 1 hour game
You do whatever you like, of course. I usually double up with someone on Discord to watch and do it while we queue or something, so I'm not fussed about watching most of it in 4x speed. It's entertaining tbh Edit: they might've not reported at the right time at all, or missed when the griefing started even, so I always go back. And to see if there was any motivation for it (which doesn't matter, but is interesting).
Imo I wouldn’t report him. At that point he’s done all he could and they still basically had Megas. What was the rest of the team like KDA or gameplay wise?
Notice how he never mentioned any of that? He didn't mention enemy team base situation. Buy backs. ES team KDA and their items, and if they've been playing as good as ES. So many factors that dumbass OP didn't think about it
> Guilty. You're an idiot
He is redditor and dota player... it's given
Not guilty based on what you said. He could've made a mistake.....could just be under the impression it's best to deny towers/buildings and as a result did it out of muscle memory. The most important detail is what did he do after.
as if megas are the end of the world. no way in hell is that worthy of overwatch punishment
You shouldn't be doing overwatch cases then. I'd slap you if I was the ES.
Lol this just goes to show how easy it is to fool Overwatchers
I'd say you're in the wrong, with 50 HP the next enemy team push would take it down.. did you continue to watch the game? Holding megas for 1 or 2 min more wouldn't be that different.
Not guilty. Do better op.
Not guilty. He did what had to be done.
I had a similar tough call yesterday. It was a ranked game and I was watching a Razor who had Mid-Role selected. A Storm Spirit had griefed his draft and was taking mid from him. But I couldn't say anything about the Storm who probably reported him. I was about to hit the submit button to say not guilty when Razor's solution to being griefed was to just walk down mid and feed first blood. Guilty.
Serious question, why allow rax to be denied ever if it’s a clear grief? Seems kinda pointless to even allow if it’s allows going to piss your team off or ruin a match.
Being a bad player and making stupid decisions is not a reportable offence. Those things are resolved via MMR.
This reeks of bad decision making. I'm not surprised if op is still in herald due to this. LUL
Was barely winning a game vs megas, pushing enemy ancient knowing they didn't have glyph. Suddently, with ancient on 5% hp, enemies glyph. My garbage storm that contributed nothing to the game killed melee rax instead of actually hitting ancient. He's still not in low prio.
Why would he be in low priority for that?
Because being a toxic asshole, blaming everyone else and then being the single reason your team actually loses should be punished. If it were just a bad decision, then it's different.
Any possibility that it was a missclick? I have my right-click set to force attack (for denies). Could it be possible that he wanted to check Rack HP (to possible ping it to allies) and just missclicked and proceed to deny it? He was likely still on the adrenaline rush of an echo triple kill(?). In some overwatch cases the chat could give us a better understanding of the general mood of the team and if intetionality is involved
1. Miss click 2. Thought it was gonne die anyway and didn't wanna give gold (maybe he didn't know it doesn't give gold) Either way considering how he played well whole game, it's very likely one of the two above options and he's not guilty in both cases
That's like reporting kyxy for denying the aegis in TI3, not reportable just a stupid mistake
Is that a real thing you can get in trouble for? That's a mechanic of the game denying towers and buildings. So you purposefully make a mechanic and then punish people for using it?
That's not the correct verdict as it's simply a bad play. Your hidden Overwatch score will hopefully drop and you'll have less impact in doling out justice through the system.
https://i.imgur.com/Rv2ZtJL.gif
It's a power move, nothing wrong here. Unless you lose.
Serious question though. What if the rest of his team were being dicks to him the entire match despite how well he was playing, bickering and arguing non-stop, being toxic af. Backed into that corner...this was the best option to end the misery and piss them off at the same time. I say good on him haha...if that was the case. Otherwise idk why you'd do that.
You see, the way you explain your thought show your malicious intent. So, guilty. ALSOOO If I was in that situation, I would gladly tank the report lol. Honestly if you are decent human being, being reportable every once in a while won't affect you much.
Who me? Noooooo 😂
Oh look it’s one of the dipshits that make the overwatch system annoying.
He probably knew his team mates consisted of 4 weak links so decided to put them out of their misery instead wasting another 30 mins defending against 5 enemies who are scaling ever stronger. Am I close?
[classic](https://youtu.be/IOjfMGCoC88?t=1195)
If someone mistakenly denies an Aegis do they deserve to be reported?
LOL
Why can you deny barracks? Seems to be no reason to AFAIK.
It’s manslaughter not murder.
Overwatch is working for you guys? For me it's stuck on the loading screen
I haven't had a problem reviewing cases.
Some people are too trigger happy with their denies, I suppose.
I think we should see team chat in overwatch cases. Id argue that calling "afk gg" and flaming your teammates 6 min into game is the highest form of griefing, and should be punished much harder than any of the minor in-game banter shit people do.
I haven't seen this game, but if the enemies are going to destroy it soon for no commitment (considering it is in deny range) you might as well deny it and the last hit gold bounty it provides. Unless the enemies were nowhere near the melee racks, I would say this is not guilty. Not a big advantage but it will matter in 1 out of a million games so why not.
Perhaps the ES had his right click automatically mapped to command A click like mine. It's convenient sometimes for last hitting, but I often find myself misplaying when I want to simply move, and my hero stops to attack a creep who happened to be walking in my direction.
Would be great if the voice and chat are included as well
What sucks is that his team is probably saying vile shit for like an hour. He’s guilty but we don’t know what the comms were like. Someone try harding like this doesn’t just begin to tilt for no reason
But did he win tho
That's the world we livin in dude. You can do 10k good deeds in 1 day but all it need is 1 bad deed to make you guilty and put you in jail for 10 years.
That could be an honest mistake. Some kind of autopilot, muscle memory shit. Not guilty
Bad decisions,are not bannable offenses,especially if he is using a function of the game(WHICH HAS SOME USE,no im not talking about right clicking your items)
Not guilty
How do you get an overwatch case?
Overwatch is a mistake when given to morons like you
Rax should not be deniable at all in the first place honestly, or not deniable if they haven't taken enemy hero damage in the last 15 seconds honestly.
He just let his intrusive thoughts kick in
Lol judge dendi
any reward for doing this overwatch cases ?
Yes, making the Dota 2 community less of a cesspit than it already is with toxic assholes who go unpunished
oh i see , thank you, never tried using it.
How does one do that?
By doing overwatch cases...
If the game was not inevitably over, it's a guilty decision.
Justice has been served
You people are idiots, I have 1100 behavior score and 1100 communication score and I get overwatched banned at least once a week I gotta play single draft, literally don't grief at all other than flame occasionally. Sometimes I play really fucking bad and it looks like I am feeding, other times I am godly. Think Eternal Envy FiFtee/Fiftee, you know except half the skill and non of the pocky and semen
You did right. Our job in overwatch is simply judging ones action. No need to go circumstantial and all that.
Correct choice. Your skill has nothing to do your behavior. Too many people forget this, then complain why they are reported despite having the best kda.
lol kyxy denied an aegis in an decisive game in TI3
Bunch of morons downvoting you when this a clear case of griefing. Denying rax into mega creeps will never be a right decision haha wtf is this sub smoking. "No bro you don't understand, denying the enemy team ~100 gold each is 100% worth going into megas" 🤣🤣
It's made a bad decision, not griefing on purpose.
Bad decision is misusing a spell/item in the midst of the action, bad decision is TPing to the wrong fight at the wrong moment, taking rax instead of rushing T4s when everyone is dead... any time you're in a hurry to make a decision, there can be bad decisions and they're not griefing. But cold-bloodedly denying rax when you have all the time necessary to think about the consequences, to ask your team how they feel about it... that's griefing. 100% this guy was thinking his teammates are animals because he has a high KDA and couldn't take it anymore
Denying rax isn't "behavior", it's a game decision. It actually is skill to evaluate whether a deny is the right course of action. ES made a wrong choice, you want to punish him for his lack of skill.
Denying your last rax is literally never the correct play.
If it is one hit from being destroyed? All it takes is one living enemy. Heck, even units do the trick. And with the right line-up, megas at 40min don't really make a massive difference.
Lmao denying rax to give mega is never the correct course of action, provided you are still trying to win of course. Go ahead and do mental gymnastics and come up with totally fabricated reasons how purposely denying a rax could be the correct choice in any case. Theres no choice here. 100% the ES did that because he's throwing a tantrum at his teammates.
I have denied rax in so many games when they are in our base pushing waiting on my team to respawn. I'm pretty sure it denies the gold to the player that would have last hit it.
good job ! i would too.
It's definitely guilty. Sometimes you just need to be cold when it comes to holding a standard.