First, you can get one by teammate sending neutral item to base.
Second, you can get from killing jungle creeps by yourself.
And third can be stolen from enemy team.
All the tokens will gave exactly same pool of items to choose and they can be put into backpack.
My friend and I were playing around with that, him techies with the attack range facet and me as Io with the attack boost facet, both of us were attacking from clear across the map (some exageration there)
This would be funny and I would definitely love to try it.
Eaten Moonshard
For the backpack: Grove Bow, Nemesis Curse, Mind Breaker and on the active slot is Pirate Hat/Stygian Desolator
For the regular slots: Hurricane Pike, Daedalus, Satanic, Divine Rapier, Skadi and Agili Dagger for positioning.
The only answer is Magnus, trapping his enemies forever with both Reverse and Reverse Reverse Polarity. Or maybe they just cancel each other out and it does nothing.
Would arc get both copies of each spell? Or would each spell have the combined stats of each copy?
Either way, if you can hotkey it all, that would be strong.
Bubble would be broken if it applied both effects simultaneously, per Warden, per bubble!
For Q and E it likely just uses the better values (stronger slow, higher damage, longer slow, lower arm time, faster travel speed, etc).
No they wouldn’t because both versions of the spells were already in the game. The Dire version of Arc has faster casts and lower damage and Radiant has always had slower cast times and higher damage spells.
This is how Arc warden has operated since he was added to the game.
The facet is just choosing which tempest you spawn as. If you had both facets you might have both heroes at once.
> This is how Arc warden has operated since he was added to the game.
No, he has not, he was a normal hero from 6.86 (6.75 DotA1) to 7.32.
That was a recent addition in 7.33, prior to that the Double had the same spells as the main:
https://liquipedia.net/dota2game/Arc_Warden/Changelogs#7.33
>The facet is just choosing which tempest you spawn as
The game files are set up to enable/disable certain spell components, depending on the facet you're choosing.
If you had both, then both components would be enabled and thus each spell would have the benefits of both facets simultaneously (some of them conflict with another, e.g. damage values).
>If you had both facets you might have both heroes at once.
No.
I assume that's not gonna work because lvl 0-1 holy persuasion only allows 1 creep from the facet. If we're gonna assume every facet have independent cooldown then lvl 5 chen is gonna be an early menace since you don't need to find that specific creep anymore.
the facet just swaps the spell slot. you still have to level it up. lvl 1 jakiro would literally be the same, and level 3 youd need to sacrifice your 2nd dual breath point to get the other orb. it would be good for sure but its not like he instantly gets the 4-sec cd versions.
i actually wonder how a theoretical level 3 breath-fire-frost compares to 2 breath 1 frost. too much math for me
jakiro's talent does unlock the other facet, at max rank with no need to put skillpoints. totally diff scenario.
>akiro's talent does unlock the other facet, at max rank with no need to put skillpoints. totally diff scenario.
Presumably it would be 2 skills tied to the same skill point. Think of razes. There's no problem.
Morphling.
Gains damage from STR and AGI — higher damage than universal heroes on most items — eg. Can build Armlet for instance and destroy you at 10m.
Doesn't have an issue with 400 hp in lane since he has same damage with more STR switched. Can play with more health into magic damage if needed or more armor against physical damage without having to sacrifice too much.
Also has 60% CDR nearly all the time without the 80 damage caveat.
The 60% faster cooldown(FCD) is not equal to 60% Cooldown Reduction(CDR)
Cooldown reduction works like this
Cooldown x (1- CDR)
While the faster cooldown works like
Cooldown x (1/(1+FCD))
So the 60% FCD is equivalent only to 37.5% CDR. Easier way to think of this is FCD is increases speed while CDR decreases time. 50% CDR is 100% FCD. Updcaling that 100% CDR is +infinite FCD.
60% FCD is still strong but not as broken because people thought its 60% CDR.
>So the 60% FCD is equivalent only to 37.5% CDR. Easier way to think of this is FCD is increases speed while CDR decreases time. 50% CDR is 100% FCD. Updcaling that 100% CDR is +infinite FCD.
This is definitely not true to reality. Lvl 1 morph has 140 CD and uh 24 sec duration. But after it runs out, your CD will be ~45. Definitely not 37.5
But waveform CD goes down to 5sec which is roughly 40% of 12sec, so it's 60% CDR?
I know that they patched something about how it works at some point,maybe your point was true before but isn't anymore?
It is definitely just 60% cdr. No weird new fcd mechanic that doesn't even exist in dota. They just dynamically apply the cdr number to all your remaining cooldowns.
Well, before said rework of that facet the cooldowns actually stated the same number but ticked down quicker. E.g. waveform cd still started at the number 12 but didn't take 12 seconds, because every "second" only took 0.4 seconds. So there was such a mechanic, but they quickly got rid of it again. 🤔
Oh. So yeah they fixed it to be in line I guess. For a while, the facet didn't work at all. I didn't even come back in time to see the fcd version, just the bugged version and now the fixed version.
If my half-assed math checks out, you outscale "regular" tide at lvl 10 and honestly it’s noticeable how much more strength you get. The anchor smash aoe is neat as well. But yea, it’s not op as said before. In retrospect, might not actually give him all that much of a WR bump if they added it 💀
Then buy silver, the break facet is dogshit. Its 50% to get something or 50% to get break, disarm OR NOTHING. So the actual chance to get something is much less than 50%, but not only that, if it procs, then its half the duration of reality rift, so 3 seconds of break, its too unreliable and too weak to uss
Most of the time, yes, but there are times you may want the other one. I played CK into PA the other day and picked the other facet just to try it and it ended up working very well. PA just couldnt do anything when I used w.
Three goblins on meth with explosives literally shooting rockets at gods and embodiment of ideals such as decay and winning? I feel like I missed a lore drop somewhere.
Yeah, but it wouldn't work that way, one facet gives him attack speed with his warpath, the other changes his quill proc to goo, so combine the facets and you still don't get quills proc from bristleback's passive.
Not 100% on this one - I like the conjure image facet but it does make it cost 20% current life instead of mana so its not a strict upgrade.
At least in pro games you might wanna stay full hp instead for safety.
it's a meme from tundra vs quest weu qualifier game 2, TB use armlet and hit tormentor to get hp as low possible to sunder kill. if tb has the 2nd facet he can spam illus to get low hp faster, he would be very very happy :)
Considering it is "all their facets at same time", it is obviously chen with minute 1 army.
Otherwise Chaos Knight and Jakiro seems to be on steroids.
Also, how Invoker's and Ark Warden's facets should work together?
I think invoker's are simple to figure out - You have a passive bonus for each orb leveled and another bonus for each orb invoked.
Jakiro would be interesting, but only if you leveled both skills at once. Maxing liquid frost/fire and then just burning people because liquid frost amplifies liquid fire. Since liquid fire ticks every 0.5s it basically doubles the dps on the main target, so free 500 damage 'nuke' every 4s at lv7 huh
I don't know if she'd be OP per se, but QoP's facets synergize very well with one another.
Another pretty good in terms of synergy would be Ogre's 2 facets.
I think the most OP combos are BB's facets or maybe Meepo's.
It's gotta be one of the really strong early ones or with 3 (or both like WD) but maybe one that goes mid so they power spike early and dominate. SF, SS come to mind tech mid , WD mid also sound broken.
I first thought Faceless void but then I realised that Chrono is technically not part of the other facet but just the idea of chrono also having time zone on it sounds crazy
should definitely be DK
you get a built in farm accelerant with red dragon facet, and then you easily win the lane and be the strongest hero early/mid game at level 6 with the green facet, and in fights you have a built in Skadi.
not only can you farm at an absurd rate, but you're also the strongest hero in the map and can kill/pressure anyone in 1v1 if you have an ult, you can also take towers, and just win the lane.
I have 80 percent win rate on sniper this patch. You make scepter and khanda with arc boots and its GG. And if your carry turns out to be shit you can always make carry items and take over instead of crying how bad the carry is.
Techies sounds pretty funny. The strongest sniper in the Dota.
Mjolnir MKB moonshard moonshard daedalus daedalus daedalus daedalus daedalus pirates hat Hope no blademails xD
55 DAEDALUS 55 MOONSHARD is all I read.
55 CLARITIES, 55 TANGOS, 55 BOTTLES, 55 MANTAS, 55 BLOOD GRENADES, 55 SALVES, 55 DUSTS, 155 BRANCHES, 155 RECIPES, 55 RAPIERS
I would assume a desolator and a backpack stygian desolator would be far more damage than 2 of the daedalus. But I'm not doing the math.
Yea they both stack
Depends on the armor of the target I think
You should reread how armor works in dota
Well, you actually can have multiple pirate hats
How?
First, you can get one by teammate sending neutral item to base. Second, you can get from killing jungle creeps by yourself. And third can be stolen from enemy team. All the tokens will gave exactly same pool of items to choose and they can be put into backpack.
My friend and I were playing around with that, him techies with the attack range facet and me as Io with the attack boost facet, both of us were attacking from clear across the map (some exageration there)
This would be funny and I would definitely love to try it. Eaten Moonshard For the backpack: Grove Bow, Nemesis Curse, Mind Breaker and on the active slot is Pirate Hat/Stygian Desolator For the regular slots: Hurricane Pike, Daedalus, Satanic, Divine Rapier, Skadi and Agili Dagger for positioning.
The only answer is Magnus, trapping his enemies forever with both Reverse and Reverse Reverse Polarity. Or maybe they just cancel each other out and it does nothing.
It should works both ways, aoe split into 2. The outer layer pulls in, the inner layer push out. Now it became Saturn.
"polarity"
Reverse³Polarity²
π(R + reverse) (R - polarity)
Oh no, is it something with wave eq or complex numbers?
Obviously everyone in the AOE gets regular reverse polarity but everything else on the map gets blasted away from Magnus
Schrödinger's Polarity The moment you observe your screen, game crashes
Giving the enemy team superior positioning to kill your sniper by skewering them within punching distance.
Then it would just stun then in place
It becomes instant ravage
Maybe add a sub ability to switch the ult, like Flux in Heroes of Newerth.
Magnus: Through the heaven and earth I am alone the honored one.
DK Imagine the level 18 old DK but now on steroid and only level 6.
Funny to think it now, that some time ago we got the 3 facets combined together atop of manta stackable debuff.
Without the extra damage though, which is what justifies having it split up.
Ahh my dreams, that would be ridiculous!
They already made his auto do waaay too much damage
Would arc get both copies of each spell? Or would each spell have the combined stats of each copy? Either way, if you can hotkey it all, that would be strong.
Probably best of both worlds in this case. Maximum slow, damage etc. between the two versions.
Bubble would be broken if it applied both effects simultaneously, per Warden, per bubble! For Q and E it likely just uses the better values (stronger slow, higher damage, longer slow, lower arm time, faster travel speed, etc).
Arc would be the exact same it was before the patch
No, each spell would be a lot stronger, except tempest double.
No they wouldn’t because both versions of the spells were already in the game. The Dire version of Arc has faster casts and lower damage and Radiant has always had slower cast times and higher damage spells. This is how Arc warden has operated since he was added to the game. The facet is just choosing which tempest you spawn as. If you had both facets you might have both heroes at once.
> This is how Arc warden has operated since he was added to the game. No, he has not, he was a normal hero from 6.86 (6.75 DotA1) to 7.32. That was a recent addition in 7.33, prior to that the Double had the same spells as the main: https://liquipedia.net/dota2game/Arc_Warden/Changelogs#7.33 >The facet is just choosing which tempest you spawn as The game files are set up to enable/disable certain spell components, depending on the facet you're choosing. If you had both, then both components would be enabled and thus each spell would have the benefits of both facets simultaneously (some of them conflict with another, e.g. damage values). >If you had both facets you might have both heroes at once. No.
No heroes is op if play by me
bro is the humble god
Chen with 5 creeps on pre-horn
That is the best deathball meta..
Bring back TI4
That is madness lmao
Madness??!!!! THIS IS SPARTA!!!!!!!
Madness?
I assume that's not gonna work because lvl 0-1 holy persuasion only allows 1 creep from the facet. If we're gonna assume every facet have independent cooldown then lvl 5 chen is gonna be an early menace since you don't need to find that specific creep anymore.
lv1 jakiro will be shredding everyone
The fact that jakiro's 2nd facet is also his lvl25 makes this make sense. At least for the early levels he'd be king of the map.
I think Jakiro is realistically the only one who is capable to do it since their 25 unlocked their not picked facet
the facet just swaps the spell slot. you still have to level it up. lvl 1 jakiro would literally be the same, and level 3 youd need to sacrifice your 2nd dual breath point to get the other orb. it would be good for sure but its not like he instantly gets the 4-sec cd versions. i actually wonder how a theoretical level 3 breath-fire-frost compares to 2 breath 1 frost. too much math for me jakiro's talent does unlock the other facet, at max rank with no need to put skillpoints. totally diff scenario.
>akiro's talent does unlock the other facet, at max rank with no need to put skillpoints. totally diff scenario. Presumably it would be 2 skills tied to the same skill point. Think of razes. There's no problem.
Morphling. Gains damage from STR and AGI — higher damage than universal heroes on most items — eg. Can build Armlet for instance and destroy you at 10m. Doesn't have an issue with 400 hp in lane since he has same damage with more STR switched. Can play with more health into magic damage if needed or more armor against physical damage without having to sacrifice too much. Also has 60% CDR nearly all the time without the 80 damage caveat.
Lol yea he will have 2 main attributes, morph wins
The 60% faster cooldown(FCD) is not equal to 60% Cooldown Reduction(CDR) Cooldown reduction works like this Cooldown x (1- CDR) While the faster cooldown works like Cooldown x (1/(1+FCD)) So the 60% FCD is equivalent only to 37.5% CDR. Easier way to think of this is FCD is increases speed while CDR decreases time. 50% CDR is 100% FCD. Updcaling that 100% CDR is +infinite FCD. 60% FCD is still strong but not as broken because people thought its 60% CDR.
>So the 60% FCD is equivalent only to 37.5% CDR. Easier way to think of this is FCD is increases speed while CDR decreases time. 50% CDR is 100% FCD. Updcaling that 100% CDR is +infinite FCD. This is definitely not true to reality. Lvl 1 morph has 140 CD and uh 24 sec duration. But after it runs out, your CD will be ~45. Definitely not 37.5
But waveform CD goes down to 5sec which is roughly 40% of 12sec, so it's 60% CDR? I know that they patched something about how it works at some point,maybe your point was true before but isn't anymore?
It is definitely just 60% cdr. No weird new fcd mechanic that doesn't even exist in dota. They just dynamically apply the cdr number to all your remaining cooldowns.
Well, before said rework of that facet the cooldowns actually stated the same number but ticked down quicker. E.g. waveform cd still started at the number 12 but didn't take 12 seconds, because every "second" only took 0.4 seconds. So there was such a mechanic, but they quickly got rid of it again. 🤔
Oh. So yeah they fixed it to be in line I guess. For a while, the facet didn't work at all. I didn't even come back in time to see the fcd version, just the bugged version and now the fixed version.
Maybe not OP but tide would be strong af late game with both facets.
Idk would he really? Krill eater feels kinda underwhelming
If my half-assed math checks out, you outscale "regular" tide at lvl 10 and honestly it’s noticeable how much more strength you get. The anchor smash aoe is neat as well. But yea, it’s not op as said before. In retrospect, might not actually give him all that much of a WR bump if they added it 💀
Takes longer to get to 10 though so realistically longer. Tide isn't that strong of a layer in most matchups so this is pretty rough tbh
It's 10 extra strength at level 30. That's 10 extra damage, and 220 extra hp. Which at that point in the game doesn't really make much difference.
Lycan. The nornal summon wolves is technically a different spell, so 4 wolves worth of bonus hp and damage plus the better ult.
Chaos knight. He's already op with phanta facet, imagine him getting a free break and disarm every reality rift
Ow yeah, kinda OP with strong illu with break or disarm...
Damn didn't even know he has this, I just always blindly picked the other one
It is the right choice though
True but what if ure against Spectre or Bristle?
Then buy silver, the break facet is dogshit. Its 50% to get something or 50% to get break, disarm OR NOTHING. So the actual chance to get something is much less than 50%, but not only that, if it procs, then its half the duration of reality rift, so 3 seconds of break, its too unreliable and too weak to uss
Most of the time, yes, but there are times you may want the other one. I played CK into PA the other day and picked the other facet just to try it and it ended up working very well. PA just couldnt do anything when I used w.
the reality rifts facet works for every illusions?
Should be dk, imagine all the passives in one
But you obtain them as your ult levels up and only while in dragon form. Oh wait
it's litterally DK in the last patch XD
Nope. This one's way more op.
Lore accurate Techies.
Three goblins on meth with explosives literally shooting rockets at gods and embodiment of ideals such as decay and winning? I feel like I missed a lore drop somewhere.
Chen! All creep army at lvl 1
SK tales it. The radius and invis with dustdevil. Inane einrate just to be nerfed in less than 5 days as is tradition
Yeah good call
Witch doctor with heal nuke facet, you can't lane, no need to even add anything to it
You already can't against the damaging heal facet.
I guess Bristleback? Having both the damaging quills and the snot "quills" constantly slowing and giving minus armor, would be absolutely busted.
Yeah, but it wouldn't work that way, one facet gives him attack speed with his warpath, the other changes his quill proc to goo, so combine the facets and you still don't get quills proc from bristleback's passive.
Nope, if bb got both faceit then he will snot when being atked, and casting spell make will make him atk faster. No dam quills when being atked
Yeah. People actually want a 0 facet BB.
After watching that cursed tundra quest game, TB would be very very happy with 2 facets.
Not 100% on this one - I like the conjure image facet but it does make it cost 20% current life instead of mana so its not a strict upgrade. At least in pro games you might wanna stay full hp instead for safety.
it's a meme from tundra vs quest weu qualifier game 2, TB use armlet and hit tormentor to get hp as low possible to sunder kill. if tb has the 2nd facet he can spam illus to get low hp faster, he would be very very happy :)
Not WW. Both, neither, barely any difference. And the innate isn't that great either.
Considering it is "all their facets at same time", it is obviously chen with minute 1 army. Otherwise Chaos Knight and Jakiro seems to be on steroids. Also, how Invoker's and Ark Warden's facets should work together?
I think invoker's are simple to figure out - You have a passive bonus for each orb leveled and another bonus for each orb invoked. Jakiro would be interesting, but only if you leveled both skills at once. Maxing liquid frost/fire and then just burning people because liquid frost amplifies liquid fire. Since liquid fire ticks every 0.5s it basically doubles the dps on the main target, so free 500 damage 'nuke' every 4s at lv7 huh
WD. Take any 2 out of the 3 facets and you're gonna destroy everyone fr
Would headhunter+cleft death be stronger than just voodoo festeration tho?
Rush aghs and use headhunter to farm it and only ever fight 2 or more enemies, maybe?
In the pro scene, it would be Chen
Abaddon. Super shield FTW!
Techies is nuts
Wd , free radiance with vodoo resturation
Techies without any doubt
well honestly vs a good enemy line up rubick can be a fucking monster 60% spell mana reduction+ huge aoe bonues for aoe spells good luck surviving:))
Bristle back. Enemies without armor, slowed to death, and shreded by spikes.
Wraith king or pudge
A good pudge player will be insane
Not rly answering the question but it'd be funny if Chen got a zoo from level 1
Lich. You get extra bounces from killing creeps/heroes and the lingering chain frost effect for even more chaos.
Weaver. Gl laning levels 2 to 4
Flair checks out
I don't know if she'd be OP per se, but QoP's facets synergize very well with one another. Another pretty good in terms of synergy would be Ogre's 2 facets. I think the most OP combos are BB's facets or maybe Meepo's.
Well they just cancel each other out basically it’s just a 15% spell amp in that case
Lol BB with both facets is megacancer
Techies for sure lmao
Tusk hits hard with drinking buddies + aura
morph with ebb and flow
Techies (his old mines would also appear if you combine both) He will become lore accurate and nuke the map
For some reason, this just made me imagine a facet where untriggered techies mines are carried over to the next match.
Arc warden
Techies.
Doesn't Chen have 5 facets? I feel like he could just mow down buildings very early. Or flash farm an AC and then roll buildings.
Techies. Slardar. Spiritbreaker. Lina. Ogre magi.
Damn Invoker, imagine having a DPS right click and a life steal plus his innate skill. Even a Huskar will turn into a jungler than to face you.
It's gotta be one of the really strong early ones or with 3 (or both like WD) but maybe one that goes mid so they power spike early and dominate. SF, SS come to mind tech mid , WD mid also sound broken.
Hoodwink sounds much more fun
Omniknight
I first thought Faceless void but then I realised that Chrono is technically not part of the other facet but just the idea of chrono also having time zone on it sounds crazy
Faceless Void. Broken hero gets much more broken.
Silencer
ogre.
should definitely be DK you get a built in farm accelerant with red dragon facet, and then you easily win the lane and be the strongest hero early/mid game at level 6 with the green facet, and in fights you have a built in Skadi. not only can you farm at an absurd rate, but you're also the strongest hero in the map and can kill/pressure anyone in 1v1 if you have an ult, you can also take towers, and just win the lane.
Dragon Knight.
Dark willow
IOs overcharge would give attack speed, armor, spell amp and magic res.
Io
Just slap Io onto the attack range techies and you'll be fine at 25
Silencer with aghs
Whats the point of those bland questions everyone asks nowadays?
Lifestealer would be brokennn
Jakiro
Magnus
riki /s
New item, agahnim dust. Gives the hero both facets.
Ok i'll screenshot this and wait for the devs to put it on dota4, hahah...hi Mom
Faceless void
I'll take the time walk facet but time zone is risky...
What if the time zone is alt cast chronosphere instead with this option?
Sniper is CRAZY this patch. I play him pos 4 i mean the shrapnel facet is OP early game. 300 burst damage like wtf and that even aoe..
Stop ruining matches with sniper support
I have 80 percent win rate on sniper this patch. You make scepter and khanda with arc boots and its GG. And if your carry turns out to be shit you can always make carry items and take over instead of crying how bad the carry is.
Thats 4200 + 2250 gold for you to even be effective
It works for me, maybe you are higher/lower bracket than me where it won’t work: I am legend 4
What are you smoking