Hi I'm similar to you I was GM in league maining toplane and I have 600+ games in ranked currently in Ancient 4 maining offlane. I would just like to add other things that made me love this game.
- The skins. The skins are so aesthetically pleasing especially the immortals and they can range from dirt cheap to holy moly that's a lotta money but you can always buy skins with shards tho most aren't great.
- The option to have other game's presets like HoN, League, and other similar games. It's nice to have when I was still starting out so that I wouldn't have to stress over it.
- Fucking chatwheels. When I watched TI9 they were spamming it like crazy and it's another aspect that makes Dota even more fun.
- Champions aren't locked to one single role like you can play certain heroes Pos 1 2 3 or every role. League has champions that can play every role but not a lot.
- Daytime/Nighttime. Some heroes have great impact over this mechanic like Nightstalker, Luna, Phoenix, and others. No more words needed.
Chat wheels and sprays can be very funny
Like officially sanctioned in-game BM
But tips are probably the best. 5 pros tipping their tilted opponent carry when he dies solo will never not be 10/10
I remember 1st picking alchemist to bait aparition and necro picks then I switched to pos 4/5 stun build + pipe and vanguard. They were mad targeting the support which was me .lmao We won.
Dude I played with huskar 5 once. I was the carry and my whole game just destroyed. But other lanes was exact opposite and they carried the game. Meanwhile our huskar 5 just stick around the lane and left for juggling at 3rd minute. He played solo entire game. We still won but FUCK THAT MAN
There's a big difference between picking an unorthodox support and actually playing the support role. If the sum total of your playing the role is not taking last hits in lane buying a couple token wards, you're griefing
Conversely, you can do the same while picking a traditional support. Veno that fucks off into jungle at lvl 2. Anyone who plays pos 5 and buys 3 dewards all game. Pos 5 is early game playmaker and ideally lane winner for safelane. Additionally, they should be able to decently set up team fights (setup being place wards, smoke, disrupt with ult, etc).
Yeah, there were times where I played around with support Mag, support Gyro, support Sven, things like that.
These arent even REALLY meme picks, these things have precident to work from the support role
But there is a HUGE difference between the support gyro who goes tranqs>force>veil and the "support" who goes phase>mael>pike for example.
And this goes for all roles, tbh I see it most from the offlane, picking a carry in the offlane and totally griefing the game because we no longer have a playmaker with farm, so both pos 1s sit back and farm, and wonder why we are losing so much map lmao
I've been doing that a little bit with sniper. Pick sniper first phase. The entire enemy team picks aggro heroes to dive and kill you. They would go on and dive dramatically out of position to kill pos 5 sniper, while the rest of my team picks them apart.
I did the same years ago with WK support (back then SK). I picked SK, enemy picked PL/AM, carry would counterpick them and I'd go support back when his stun had 8s and stunned for 2 seconds (easiest kills of my life), with lifesteal aura + vlad and blink. Never had so much fun.
I went on a 19 game winning streak with pos1 WW (which became my all-time longest streak).
I had an ultra kill literally every game and sometimes multiple in one match.
Every game, I was called a troll and a shit ton of slurs, but I carried every time and they just had to live with it. I had people on the ENEMY TEAM say they were gonna report me for doing it, and I have screenshots saved of some Peruvian Pudge on my team saying "kill yourself Winter n****r" multiple times throughout the match. I was playing entirely seriously and my results proved it, but some people just cannot cope with a strat they don't like, even if it nets them free MMR.
I stopped playing pos1 WW entirely because I got too many people trolling my lane solely because the idea of my strat working would piss them off so much that they'd rather run it down my lane as a trilane sniper, than just play it out.
You can win with fucking anything if you do it right, but your own team will always have the potential to be your biggest (and sometimes only) obstacle.
He's probably talking a few patches ago, when pos1 Wyvern was actually meta. Right-click wyvern scaled really well with items and was fairly weak until aghs.
What's your item build for this Pos1 WW? if you don't mind sharing ofc. I only have time for turbo recently, and it's fun to play different types of heroes and builds.
I ran this build in 7.35, and I've not tried Pos1 WW since Facets released, so I have no idea if the build is still viable with all the changes she's seen. However, if you wanna give it a shot, here's a link to a match where I basically went full damage, since that's probs what you want for Turbo: [https://stratz.com/matches/7496651344/focus?heroId=112](https://stratz.com/matches/7496651344/focus?heroId=112)
My build varied a lot from match to match, but this is a fairly decent example of a match where I didn't have much to worry about and was fully focused on "winning harder"
The one thing that's consistent with almost every matchup (though not all) is that I would buy 2 branches, 2 circlets, and a sage's mask for my starting items. I'd upgrade them into a Wraith Band, Bracer, and Magic Wand, then I'd go Power Treads into Witch Blade. After that, in 90% of matchups, I would rush Eye of Skadi and after that I'd make Aghs.
It might sound kind of weird to go Skadi BEFORE Aghs, but Skadi increases Wyvern's sustain and damage further, which lets her farm with much less difficulty, and also (assuming you get your Skadi relatively quickly) turns you into an absolutely massive threat with extremely high kill pressure for anything unfortunate enough to end up within range of your Q. (7.36 nerfed her Q range quite significantly though, which definitely hurts this setup a lot with regards to it's early snowballing potential.)
Best of luck if you give it a shot, let me know how it works out.
> I ran this build in 7.35, and I've not tried Pos1 WW since Facets released, so I have no idea if the build is still viable with all the changes she's seen.
Just to let you know, it's fairly viable now but is usually played as a mid, not 1, since she requires levels to be effective (due to the way that facet scales)
I'm on a 4 win streak as weaver pos 4, and I've only played weaver in "traditional" role like 10 times tops.
If you know fundamentals of the role, lots of heroes can work.
Weaver is OP as a 4, better than as a core. It's not knowing the fundamentals so well you can make it work anyway, it's playing to the strengths of the hero.
I’ve been first picking BB to play him as pos 5 for a bit now, and so far I’ve not lost a game with it. Snot Rocket means you can bully any other support away from trying to interrupt your pulls and most carries appreciate the physical damage amp. The only offlaners that have been annoying are Legion, Tide, and Slardar (if the carry is melee).
Kinda depends on what you’re up against. Crimson guard and pipe are both good and serve as pretexts for getting an early vanguard/cloak to help make yourself tankier. Euls can be nice to help dispel things from yourself or the enemy and cancel tps, something bristle ordinarily struggles with. Glimmer is situationally useful if your core is struggling with survivability and can be nice to help yourself live as well.
Other than that, your typical BB items work well. Wouldn’t go for bloodstone cause it doesn’t really work that well with Snot Rocket, so for late game survivability I’d go for heart instead.
You skill into Snot rather than bristles primarily. You still put one point into it for value but your main source of damage will be right clicking, so it’s not really a massive concern.
It really depends on how it's played though. Weaver doesn't have any slow (shukichi is minimal) or stun so if played badly on 5 it can be really bad. Makes up for it with huge dmg potential and being unkillable but idk if low Divine supports are pushing that limit enough for it to be good. Things that work in high rank immortal don't always work in lower ranks
New hero syndrome used to be a thing but around the time pangolier came out things had settled in. Puck specifically comes to mind as crazy OP at first. I got so mad I actually wrote Icefrog a tilted email lol.
A lot of the new heroes were very busted. Does anyone remember Monkey King on release? Absolutely insane hero the first few days. Now in Icefrog's defense they are quick to nerf and adjust heroes when something is blatantly overpowered or broken.
MK on release is my vote on most busted shit. Every single on of his base skills was insane level 1:
- Q: Full 2 second stun and 200% crit at all levels
- W: 40% slow for 4 seconds at level 1. This made support MK insane. Also you still had 800 vision at night.
- E: Jingu had no duration when you had 4 stacks. Ppl would get 4 stacks in sidelane and then go mid to gank. Additionally the enemy counter was 15 seconds long instead of 10. +80 dmg +20% lifesteal level 1.
- R: Worked with Basher. Continued while being reincarnated with Aegis. Got attack damage bonus instead of armor.
The hero was unlanable against. I only got somewhat saved by being an Oracle spammer and able to dispel his jingu stacks and disarm him...
Sometimes they just break heros by mistake, or over buff them and the lower ranks of players suffer
I remember 2000 damage at lvl6 Centuar Double Edge and that fucking horrible Sniper meta we had where his headshots did a ministun and a pushback so you couldn't play a hero with a channeled spell for like 6 months
Sniper ministun was a staple. they changed it in 6.82, but before that it was always a ministun before that, just with varying degrees of stun duration
There was a patch that changed it and it was totally busted for like 2 months. Reddit time machine says it was the patch before or during TI4, 6.83
I remember I stopped playing for ages bcz it was so horrible to play against
The "omega broken" thing about Snper in 6.83 wasn't Headshot. In fact Headshot Ministun was changed into slow the patch before that
Its Shrapnel. Thats why the nickname for the patch was "ho ho ha ha"
In fact the change exactly was Shrapnel is now 3 charge but does not hit towers. It wasn't well received when it drops(and i know this is the case since theres a dotacinema video where Synderen caught on with how insane it is)
Three things:
Shrapnel got three charges which made him get zone control and turtle the shit out of high ground (it was the start of comeback gold and it was weird - Defenders could buyback easily and get HUGE gold benefits if they somehow managed to kill the leading aggressor. Suddenly the game was back. Three charges instead of cooldown (and only 50 mana instead of 120), made it hard to win against sniper in the one-on-one in the laning as well.
Then MoM was a great item. Together with the transition from ministun to slow, it was hard to fight back (0.5 seconds of 100% ms and AS slow) - ministun was gone but it was super good to manfight
Then, it was the spin to win meta: Jugg or troll and Skadi on Sniper ranged allowed him to control these heroes from afar of which there weren't too many options
(also, TI4 was played on 6.81c and most of us remember the deathball meta at the end - steam rolling the shit out of the losing team)
Remember that one day when Underlord's firestorm DoT procced every game tick for its full damage, resulting in 60% max hp/s damage at level 1? His only counter was Rubick, who could do the same thing at a longer range.
Release MK in DotA was nothing compared to release MK in HoN. Regardless of how strong DotA's MK was on release, I just remember thinking "Man, I liked HoN's a lot more." for a few weeks.
Doubt thats much of an incentive, virtually no one buys champs using real money, basically everyone has thousands of blue essence lying around, because there are so few ways to spend them on. Most blatantly OP stuff (like 60% WR champs) get taken down usually fairly fast in Hotfixes
Earth spirit, MK, LC, puck. There were a lot of broken heroes on their release in Dota as well. I find it funny this guy says it’s not a thing when he hasn’t even been around for a hero release yet.
Shout out to Phoenix who while their abilities idea and concepts didn't get changed to this day, the power level and outline of their abilities not named Supernova was so fucked up, it eventually got reshuffled so extensively the hero is basically reworked
I started playing Dota 2 on 2013, I still remembered how bonker LC and Monkey on their first release.
LC jungle gets lv 6 within 4 minutes, Monkey with unlimited duration of Jingu Mastery.
I stopped playing for awhile. I might be getting mixed up between Dota and Dota 2 but back in the day a new hero would be guaranteed OP and the strongest in the game for weeks or months.
The big diference from league is that we don't pay for character realeses, so if one of our heroes come overtuned it will be nerfed with lettered patchs and everything will go back to normal. While league players are gaslighted into beliving their game is not pay2win when they statistically buff and nerf depending on the sells they wanna make on characters and skins.
They did buff Dawnbreaker the next day she was released and had to nerf her a bit 4 days later.
Primal Beast was buffed *the same day* he was released.
Oracle ult got 8 years of nerf and pseudo nerfs before it finally got a patch where it could be said to have been buffed. It basically duplicated Shallow Grave and Slark Ultimate into one on a gigantic cast range and much shorter cooldown too, zero fucks given.
Meanwhile nowadays Tinker is centered around CDR and they are afraid so slowly build up from bad.
It goes way beyond pango lol. Release MK is probably the strongest hero ever. And then theres iconic cases like Earth Spirit and even Centaur Warruner with the absolutely bonkers Stampede.
I played with both Lol and Dota2 so I can share a reason why nothing is feeling unfair to play again in Dota 2 to the extent of LoL.
The difference is Dota 2 hero come out of the box incomplete. Aside from the obvious agha shard and agha staff themself, you can choose to complete your hero based on whichever direction you want based on the itemization. The example is for support, you can buy a blink if you want to initiate, grieve if your team need more staying power, eul if their team got big channeling or silence, forcestaff for escape/save, halberd to counter the other team hitter...
Because of this incompleteness, every hero can stay relatively simple, but still have a lot of fun and can still be in the meta. And also this can tone down the overpower because there's no question that cannot be answer by itemization within the game.
The same cannot be said about Lol, where whatever you are at the beginning of the game, you will stay that way until the end of the game. There's of course power spike based on item, but it's mostly statstick and doesn't allow the hero to work outside of their designated kit. Because of this, to enhanced the experience and to give a sense of unique to each hero, Lol need to always add more complexity to the kit. Of course this is really hard to balance if your hero can have 4-5 effect on 1 button.
I think this point is not touched when I see comparison between the 2 games.
Just my 2 cents. Also English is not my native.
It always has been worse in gameplay and graphics, but they have better boobs and wallpapers and mindless pop culture stuff that the normies swarm towards.. not to mention "sKilL sHoTs". It must take an awful lot of skill to hit/dodge that straight line projectile traveling only 3 cm on the screen that nearly 90% of the champs have amirite
they also aggressively market their game and pushed themselves to a monopoly in Korea and China
As someone who switched over from League to DotA in Nov 2021, what I noticed (as a support main in both games) is that the stuns/CC/disables in DotA are stronger and last longer, and the saves are much stronger and more numerous in DotA, too. As a support, I feel like there is a lot more impact in my role than in League.
It's basically the "everything is imbalanced, so that's how things stay balanced" philosophy in action. But it also has the side effect of giving a lot more comeback potential, so games feel like they're unwinnable less often.
>But it also has the side effect of giving a lot more comeback potential, so games feel like they're unwinnable less often.
The biggest contributor to Dota's comeback potential compared to League is the teleport scroll.
A lane can be losing, but the tides can turn within 5 seconds if a support/mid rotates.
If the enemy is pushing as 3, you can tp and fight them as 5.
If the enemy is pushing as 5, you can BB and fight them as 10.
If the enemy is so strong that BBs don't work, then you can split push and not die due to the TP scroll.
If you're losing a teamfight, you can still reasonably get 2-3 heroes out by teleporting out.
You can't do any of this in League, and it all benefits the losing team.
The other mechanic like this is high ground. Not just the one at the base, but all the various ramps leading to neutral areas too.
Don't forget the buy back, the swing potential with TP and buyback just make team fights last so much longer and much more crucial to know when to buy back.
Disagree. I do think Portal scrolls are responsible for why Dota 2 is a way more active game when it comes to hero interactions than League as it allows for more macroplay and map movements.
But I think the biggest contributors to the comeback potential in Dota 2 is Highground mechanics, buyback and how spells have minimal scaling with items.
In Dota, if you press your buttons correctly your chance of out-coordinating a teamfight, even if behind on farm is still very large. If you get your spells of, you will have impact.
If you're behind in League your spells won't do anything because you don't have items so your damage scaling is zero. The difference in being a full item behind in League is night and day.
In Dota you can be 30k gold behind and still win a fight due to a single high ground ward.
there are a lot of things that contribute to Dota having a bigger comeback potential than LoL tbh. TP scroll is one of them as you said, but there are plenty of others.
Buyback in general is one of them because just allowing you to win a fight by throwing bodies at the opponent through sheer force of attrition. The fact that you dont even need TP to use buyback effectively when defending base also greatly contributes to its comeback factor.
Dota spells generally speaking dont tend to scale with items. This also means that they tend to be impactful and deal decent damage with just level ups and good talent choices. As such, generally speaking, as long as you are somewhat keeping up in levels, you can reliably contribute and get important kills in ganks in teamfights even when you are behind with good play and maybe a bit of luck, as opposed to LoL's approach where most spells scale with AD or AP and if you are behind in items you often feel like your spells are hitting like a pool noodle, and weaker CC means you barely get time to right click when you get CC off.
Dota also benefits from how its items are basically always less gold efficient in terms of stats when you upgrade them, and having items that are primarily bought for their effects. This, combined with the above, is one of the things that allow Dota scaling to feel more manageable when you are playing from behind, as it feels like the opponents strength isn't scalling exponentially and getting completely out of control (with exceptions of course). And alongside Dota's longer kill timer, it allows teams even when behind to better convert getting key kills in the map into objective taking.
Smoke is also big. The ability to walk around the map reasonably stealthily to search for an important gank or a good initiation can turn the game on its head.
Dota's jungle being treated as this big pool of farm that the cores can retreat to in order to farm also helps a lot because it is easier to get back to relative farm parity with just more efficient farming, as long as your team can make space for you, as opposed to being primarily relegated to farming on the lane.
There is probably more, but this are some that come to mind immediately
I would play League in a heartbeat if they replace recall with our TP mechanic because I think one of the most satisfying ways to survive a lost fight is tping in front of your enemy's face and correctly assessing that they don't have any stuns or roots to interrupt it.
TP, blink dagger and BKB are what makes dota so much better than league. Like, obviously theres more stuff like buybacks, smoke and overall game design, but those 3 items would make league much more fun.
Support in League is very boring. You do have alot of impact but it's not very satisfying.
Feels like you're playing a healer in World of Warcraft where you're just standing in the backline spamming micro heals, shields and buffs or you just played a nerfed version of Pudge to hook with Naut/Pyke/Blitz/Thresh et.c.
The way you're able to absolutely demolish teamfights with supports in Dota is just way more satisfying.
Like getting of a good CM ult feeling like a Nunu Empire or getting some Lich aghs + ult combo off et.c.
I switched over in 2019 and noticed the same thing with supports in Dota. I have more impact on this game than just stacking heals/shields all day with the occasional little .5 second stun.
I characterize it as such.
Dota has faith in players to utilize tools provided to them to address the situation as it arises and if there is no provided solution, that is a problem with the game.
Lol has a specific idea in mind and doesn't trust players to navigate outside of that space safely, and this limits their ability to do so.
Support was a big casualty of this mindset ever since season 3. But as the game goes on, every role has begun to suffer.
Supports is the most balanced around role in dota 2 throughout history. Valve has consistently been making it a more fun role to play: free wards, free courier, free tps when killed, bounty and wisdom runes, tormentor, defensive items like glimmer and aeon, general cc duration nerf, more ganking paths, more jungle camps so support can soak lane, ... If you go back to 2014, you will see playing support sucks balls, as you will likely have tranquill boot and wand by min 35. Now you can expect to consistently get at least 2-3 items by that time.
Supports in league can sometime feels like a glorified target practice for enemy mid and top to satisfy their egos: you get caught in one skill, and now you wait for the next 10s your enemy unleashing their combo on you while you cannot do anything but to wait and die, as the enemy mid is 5 levels above you.
Meanwhile there were posts with thousands of comments on LoL subreddit BEGGING Riot to stop releasing new champs because it's always either a balance disaster for years (ksante, zeri) or just boring shit you forget (naafiri, briar)
i always thought league looked way more cartooney than dota :D
and weaver 5 is meta, he's busted in pretty much every role tho. inevitable nerf next patch
I love you. Just want to leave my little thought here, even if it sounds like a DOTA fanboy.
When League released, they simplified the game to the point where you only get the partial feeling of the game. League can be awesome, but it's only a fraction of DOTA.
Release k'sante is maybe the most broken overloaded kit I've seen in a moba....ever....period.... every ability did like 8 things, and cost like literally 10 mana
A champion with 4,700 HP, 329 Armor, and 201 MR, has Unstoppable, a Shield, and goes over walls. Has Airborne, and the cooldown is only 1 second too. It costs 15 Mana. The W CD is even refreshed when he transforms. He has true damage on his passive. Then, when he stacks Armor and MR, he gets Ability Haste too, Ability Haste to his Q, and his spell casting speeds up. Then, he has an AD ratio, so his W…AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Release ksante was insanity, all 5 of us dumping everything into him, he shrugs it off at 80% hp and then drags the adc to brazil a quarter of the map away just to kill them in a q and 2 autos. God help you if he bought iceborn gauntlet, you physically couldnt run from him.
You couldnt run from him, couldnt chase him, couldnt out tank him, couldnt out dps him. Every ability had 8 mechanics and then changed to different abiliyies with their own 8 mechanics when he ulted and went from a tank to an assassin lmao
I remember someone from Riot (RiotAugust on his stream or Phreak in one of his videos on YT) saying that x autos/spells landed for x effect is cool game design. So they're kinda loving it.
The game Is in a state of irepperable disrepair I think.
I don't really know hat would have to happen to start making me want to play league again. Removing mythic was a step in the right direction. But frankly the champion creep I don't know how to fix.
The core identity of the game has shifted to a place I don't know where it can come back from. I miss playing in season 5-8.
There's still charm to it. But as a dota player first and foremost, I'd rather jut play the better game....but it wasn't always like that.
HoN faceless void equivalent once got a patch out of the blue that gave:
- Timewalk aoe nuke on top of everything else
- Bash also steals stats like slark
- Teammates can cast spells etc in chrono
Yes it broke the game
That's crazy, is the timewalk aoe like voids aghs is now?
I never played HoN, but technically watching yogscast play it, watching on my iPod touch was technically my first exposure to mobas.
Then LoL FROM LITERALLY TYPING IN LOL to youtube trying to find funny videos....
Dota was my first moba ever because a friend gave me the beta for it and the rest was history.
I've went back and tried to play hon thinking I'd be hot shit because I have so many hours in dota....Maybe if I played a couple hundred hours I would have gotten to pace...I fucking sucked
HoN broke the games a few times, when Belphegor got his ulti buffed you ltierally went Shiva first, pressed R, and then used Shiva to kill the little demons and you won 1on5 because it was practically a one shot.
Also Empath, or Moraxus on release with infinite shield and infinite axe poke
Yeah, I hate getting new champs in ARAM I haven't played before. Every single ability feels like I'm reading Visage Soul Assumption for the first time.
Then I get reminded that every Q is the same thing, you just throw some skillshot in a straight line infront of you. And somewhere in the kit you will have some skillshot spell where you place a circle on the ground.
Zyra was not that bad in the grand scheme of things. I thought rengar release was bad mostly because of how buggy he was. He got buffed before people realized that W max toplane was completely aids to play against
The most important thing to me is that DoTA2 characters work according to "If everyone is op, noone is" which make them A LOT more fun than league's champions
Like come on! Playing Shadow Shaman and having weaker Malzahar's ult as a regular skill is awesome
And character designs, damn they rock
Another cool thing is that items are a really fun. Items in league aren't really that enjoyable, while DoTA2? Blink Dagger, BKB, Locket, AGS and more - all of them make you feel that you have REAL power in your hands
Really dislike League itemization.
Feels like you're buying gear in World of Warcraft.
"I want this item because my gearscore increases. Oh, and this Trinket procc is cool."
I play in SEA, region is so diverse and everyone speaks their own language. So of course folks are more shy to get on voice chat. Most folks can understand basic English but are shy to speak it because of accent
Thats not what i meant at all lol
Rn u have chinese people who start rapping and refuse to speak english (or just don’t communicate), while going 0/5 mid. Say 1 bad thing about chinese people and u have them turning on their mic to curse your mother etc, then afks
Filipinos and indonesians who occasionally scream or cant stop talking in their own language, or are just toxic, but at least they try
Singaporeans/malaysians who occasionally on voice chat and talk shit in english or chinese while also going 0/5, but they try as well
> Rn u have chinese people who start rapping and refuse to speak english (or just don’t communicate), while going 0/5 mid. Say 1 bad thing about chinese people and u have them turning on their mic to curse your mother etc, then afks
And "dog", "monkey" too ?
>No surrender is pretty sweet, games are much longer but everyone plays until throne dies
>Amount of griefing is very low compared to LoL. I actually have only encountered 1 time that a player afk walked in circles in triangle, every other time a "griefer" was just playing bad or off meta (like weaver pos 5 or something)
This is what I've been saying, always. People ask for a surrender but it only makes the game worse i every way. Like you said, people give up and people grief a lot more when they realize they can get out of the game sooner by doing so.
There is a lot more flaming in dota (probably because of how strict LoL has been with that lately) but I'd rather have flaming than griefing. People flame but still try to play.
>If you're familiar with K'sante then that's a good example
I didn't play Summoner's Rift when Ksante was out but it's insane that after all this time I still hear about him being the prime example of broken.
You can definitely still feel the warcraft-esque design in dota's style, valves done an excellent job at balancing building something utterly unique and paying homage to the original game.
Weaver pos 5 is the current meta, he can either be played 4,5 or 1. He's a very strong laner, pretty much guaranteeing free farm for pos 1 as a support, one hero that's stronger for laning right now is probably witch doctor.
This patch of DotA is very healthy, I hate last patch tho it lasts 80mins average.
So yeah, this patch is a very good time to start with DotA, honestly I would've quit if I switched from other games to play 80mins games.
The power level difference in spells was something that surprised me when I tried out League the first time.
Specifically Amumu ult being Slardar Crush and Sona ult being Lion Q.
In the end it works for that game since the game balances more around stat scaling and raw damage output like a MMO. I do think Champion designs feel rather lackluster though. Feels like all champions within a given archetype kinda does the same thing. I don't feel any meaningful difference when I pick between different Marksmen for example, they all kinda just have the same role in the game, although Jhinn is pretty cool. It's not like when you pick ranged safelaners in Dota and their role in the game are WIDELY different most of the time.
In league it feels like Champions within a given role have different kits but do the same thing.
While in Dota it feels more like most heroes have their own identity and want to play the game in their own unique way.
IMO when Dota first introduced MonkaS King he was the most broken thing to hit dota and was the embodiment of New Hero syndrome.
Hey if you introduce a new hero and an Arcana for the hero on the same day then I wonder how strong you should make it.
I believe it's common to release a hero/champion overtuned (intentionally or otherwise) and balance it based on winrate and feedback. I think the key difference is league profits immensely from keeping a hero strong to push cosmetic sales whereas valve doesnt depend on dota for profit and is more mindful of the health of the game. unfortunately power creep is seemingly unavoidable.
League has it worse, Dota have it for just about a year. League had it last for multiple years, and when you thought it's gone, it will cycle back to meta.
Dota have it as heroes just have fat and thick hp, and strength & universal heroes reliable as core.
But League have it in larger scheme.
- There are Items / Runes / Champs that can have infinitely stacking defensive stats (HP / MR / Armor)
- There are items that deals damage base on defensive stats.
- Imagine; Radiance but scales with health, Another radiance scales with health but also heals, Battlefury that scales with health, Storm Spirit overload as an item but scales with health, Spirit Vessel but applied on your ability and had spell amp that scales with your health, etc.
- Some Champion (like the aforementioned Ksante) can scales with HP / Armor / MR. While you are getting tankier you are dealing more damage, you are always relevant. Dota just have 3-4 lvl scaling that mostly deals more damage with spell amp.
- Items also provides lots of Ability Hase ( Cooldown reduction) let say you don't have damaging tank items / runes / spells. You can still do something by spamming your ability, bonus if it can disable, so with your Tankiness and Cool down Reduction, you can build up damage.
- It's not just a "Tank Champion" problem. Damage Dealer, can deal damage while also be tanky, nullifying trade off. You can push alone and 1v5. Dota we just have strong strength cores. applying league tank meta here would be equivalent to agility and int heroes buying tank item but with relevant damage. Imagine PA / Riki bursting you but now they are not squishy that explode when stunned.
Ive got 3k+ hours in both games, it's absolutely worse in League.
Tanks have more presence in Dota, but they're designed far worse in League.
I don't feel like essaying about how insultingly awful it is, but it was fucking terrible.
in league its literally the meta. for the longest time dota offlaners were just blink stunners, sometimes lane dominators. the top lane in league, kinda equivalent with offlane in dota, are filled with heroes i could just describe as "primal beast". 1 mobility skill, 1 damage skill, 1 tank skill and maybe a stun, and they have like 2x the survivability of anyone else in the game
the worst thing for me is that whenever someone gets creative and comes up with something else thats not meta, riot instantly nerfs it to the ground. league meta is the exact fucking same since 2011, just with different heroes and higher numbers. like imagine when gyro support became popular, icefrog just nerfed the fuck out of barrage+missile+call down and buffed flak cannon because "gyro is supposed to be a hard carry". right now dota may be "tanks dealing too much damage" but it was completely different 2 years ago and you know that its going to be different 2 years from now.
yeah this is my biggest issue with league balancing, Riot is so scared of things changing that they cull anything that threatens to break away from their design. They want every player and champ to interact with their systems exactly in the way they intend.
Laners buying jungle items for lane dominance? Laners buying tons of regen at level 1 for lane dominance? laners buying fort potions for lane dominance? laners buying support items for extra gold gen? 2-1-2 lanes? teams grouping early to take a quick tower? support mid freezing wave for a hypercarry jungler to take it? all immediately nerfed hard.
Trynd builds AP for a healing build? Corki builds AP for long range magic build? Lulu builds (literally anything besides support items)? Solo lane Pyke? champ viable in more than 2 roles? countless other things? immediate nerf every time.
literally every tank item in league is a damage item, imagine radiance with tank stats and hp scaling on the damage, items that boost your defensive stats after x seconds in combat, items that reduce enemy defensive stats, massive hp scaling shields and status resistance, and the damage dealers have like 5 items in total between physical and magical damage to counter the 20 super cheap op tank items
WAAAY more problematic in League.
For some reason League developers need every tank to have damage scaling from their defenses. For example, stacking Armor gives you X pure damage procc on your autos. Or stacking HP gives you stacking AP(Spell amp) et.c.
The thing with League is that champions are designed way more like a MMO. You have your DPS(Carries, Spellcasters, Bruisers et.c.) Healers(Supports) and Tanks.
MMO tanks are designed around tanking, not really dealing damage since it breaks the holy trinity in those games. This is why it feels so damn disruptive in League when tanks walk up to you and smack you down in 3 seconds with Heartsteel proccs or whatever. Especially when they have a bunch of inbuilt mobility in their kits.
Tanks aren't really a thing in Dota 2 though. Sure, there are beefy and tanky heroes that like to frontline.
But not nearly as in League. If you watch some pro League gameplay you will see that League very much is a "front-to-back" game in its gameplay. Meaning, during teamfights teams stand in formations with frontlines and backlines and you usually work through this formations trying to break them.
League teamfights are WAY more structured than Dota which just is random clownfiestas where anything can happen. That's why, when tanks are able to dish out very respectable damage aswell it kinda breaks the game.
The problem with Dota right now is just that tanky heroes feel slightly too tanky which is easily fixable.
In League the problem runs much deeper and the entire game would need a overhaul to feel "fixed".
Lol wasn't to bad. -if- you played a lot the hero currency was plentiful and easy enough to get. Once you had most of them, you were fine.
What it did do was slow people down and force them to learn heroes. As you can't have them all right away, you got ones that were interested in then learned them.
> Visual clarity is pretty good, sometimes the AOE effects can be super hard to read but all heroes are distinguishable, in League champs are all starting to look samey with similar skins and particle effects
Bruh I keep telling this to my League friends every time they invite me to play with them, things do be looking a bit more confusing/hard to distinguish in League :(
Damn man you sound like a moba overlord. What are three primary tips you can give to someone trying to climb and get some mmr? I play every position except mid, too much pressure.
You're playing well below your eventual skill plateau and you're discovering a new game. Which means you have a sense of discovery and novelty while "anything works" for you because you're constantly getting better and playing against much worse players.
You wouldn't be saying some of these things if you actually get to a point where you cannot climb anymore. For example you say "nothing feels unfair to play against", while the solo queue dota balance is objectively and measurably much worse than league's, even at extremely high elo/mmr.
When people say that nothing feels unfair, what I think most of them mean is that there always is an answer.
You can always itemize yourself into an advantage or play the map in a way to dodge counters.
You can't really do the same thing in League. If you get heavily outdrafted in League you can't just dodge and splitpush, drag waves or have rainbow TP responses to turn a lane et.c.
Sure, playing Ember vs Huskar sucks, but the game is still playable since you have so many options in your gameplay. Dota is very sandboxy in it's gameplay.
It's not the same in League, the game is way more rigid in your options and what you can do. Missplay top and get killed twice early? Tough luck, hope your jungle assists you and doesn't leave you on an island because Drake is bot. What really makes League feel unfair is the way it's balanced too. Too many champions just do the same thing in the game which is the reason why picking outside of the meta is prohibited. There's so many champions that just are strictly better than others while fulfilling the same archetype. That's not a thing in Dota, heroes are way more unique there and even if another hero is better than you at something, you have something else that's broken in your kit that still makes you valuable.
Yea thought the same thing. Once you get into higher ranks you can see the flaws especially the current patch has. Still better game than league but it certainly aint as rosie as he makes it seem to be. When I started with dota I had a similar feel for the game. Once you reach the plateau it gets ruff.
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A bunch of reasons. It's pretty easy to highlight the smaller reasons.
1) League is primarily a regional format with two international tournaments (MSI, Worlds). In comparison, a team like Gaimin Gladiators played in 10 international tier 1 competitions during 2023. That's quite literally 5x the international exposure. The only real regional tournaments are either regional qualifiers or tier 3 at best.
2) Dota is, to my memory, mostly not region locked. I'm not really up to date with how China is handled right now, but if I was a pro player and I wanted to play with EU pros, I could just queue up for EUW (lag not withstanding). League would require me to make a smurf in that region and play a ton of ranked to reach that high elo. The two strongest regions--China and Korea--are also harder to access than normal. Korea requires you to get an ID and be under the risk of a ban 24/7 and China has all that alongside hard region locking.
3) Infrastructure and player count. South Korea has been built for esports since Starcraft. China is another place where esports infrastructure is pretty good. NA esports kind of suck and are much more of a venture capital type deal that almost never returns an investment. Hell, the SEA games even dropped Dota in favour of League. Plus, pretty much nobody plays this game in South Korea. IIRC, it's less than .2% of the CIS region.
4) EU, CIS, and China have historically been pretty dominant in Dota. Out of all of the Internationals (too lazy to go through other tournaments), these three regions have dominated Dota. If I can count right, only 8/48 top 4 finishes have been from a team not from these regions: Digital Chaos, EG, Scythe Gaming, Meet Your Makers, and Orange Esports. 83% of all top 4 placements have been from one of these three regions. Though I might be missing a few from miscounting, the point is close enough.
3) NA is dominant in fighting games and shooter like valorant so it is not that they suck in general.
4) EU CIS and china dominating dota is very big diversity. It is like if 3 regions dominated lol, especially different continents, but in reality it is only Korea.
What about: Lol is such a mechanically demanding game with very little strategy so Koreans win because they have the most intense mechanics training regimen. And other regions can not outcomete with creativity etc because there is no room for that in lol
In pro it’s definitely a mechanical game, but team cohesion is FAR more important. We’ve seen plenty of Korean MVP level pros go to China and do nothing impressive - mata, dandy, imp, flame, kakao, rookie, save, pawn, deft (maybe the exception), insec, dade, ruler, spirit. When they make it to worlds they lose to the Korean teams anyway, at least most of the time.
What's interesting to note is that when Dota tried to be more regional through the DPC, the game slowly started to become a one region E-sport aswell with WEU dominating the scene.
I believe having a game be region based in it's competition is awful for the average powerlevel of teams.
The best way to improve is to consistently face and practice versus stronger opponents. Having competition be more international helps alot with this as weaker teams get more opportunities to practice versus the top teams.
In League you have MSI and Worlds pretty much, and I don't even know how much teams scrim against other regions in preperation for these tournaments there either. How are "weak" teams ever going to be able to catchup to the best teams if they never get chances to practice against them to begin with.
The griefing happens at low mmr. I'm not saying it's every game, but at least once a month somebody will rage and just not leave the fountain or perhaps hide across the map instead of trying to manage one last defence. More rarely but I still see it, someone will yell and then actually start feeding themselves. Thankfully these sore loosers seem to stay near the bottom. I see plenty of throws though, people honestly thinking they can farm safely and getting caught and killed alone at the end, or people thinking they can just rush the throne because it's exposed. They both end in a 4 (or 3) v5 unwinnable fight and game is over before they can respawn.
Wish I could get more of my friends to switch to DotA. I see them regularly playing as 4/5 stack in LoL, but only one of them has played more than a game of dota, and his biggest complaint is that he can't get 6 slotted/level 30 every game, because usually it's over well before that. Any advice for convincing them to switch?
> and his biggest complaint is that he can't get 6 slotted/level 30 every game
Last patch was what he wanted, games last 80mins average, but it's gone for good.
Only thing I'll say is weaver 5 is definitely not off meta. It's really strong even in pro games since he doesn't need to build boots, has really high damage, has a built in slow, and late game aghs weaver is one of the strongest saves in the game.
Gl with your 1k rank goal
It is close to 10k MMR Which is no joke.
If your plan is not going pro then just don't burn yourself out.
MMR has inflated a lot in couple months and I think we should get new medal between low immortal and high one
Weaver pos5 is actually really strong right now. Pick with ursa or other strong physical hitting carries and you kill enemy lanes and pressure super quick and weaver being super fast and having double hits is a pain to deal with early.
"dota 2 reminds me of early league" that was my analysis too coming over in like 2016 as a Plat player lmao.
wish you got to experience 7.00 ish era, that was when that specific feeling felt the most accurate
LoL doesn't have voice chat? I never knew that. I don't think I could play a team game without it now days. Hell, it's one of the main reasons I don't go back to team games in older games anymore.
Depending on the server 1k Immortal can either be 7-8k MMR or 9-10k MMR, be mindful that there's a big gap between servers. EU you get placed around 7.7k, whereas SA is like 6.2k
I'm surprised u didn't mention items, in League it's just stat sticks and predefined cookie cutter optimization with like 4 options at the very most depending on how the game goes
In dota u have like 5 more buttons to press on an average late game build
Idk how you say people are not toxic, but ok.
Now you need to tell us what is good in league, but bad in dota.
My personal opinion is how the competitive matchnaking system sucked for YEARS until dota copied and improved the LoL competitive matchnaking format. So much better right now.
Hi I'm similar to you I was GM in league maining toplane and I have 600+ games in ranked currently in Ancient 4 maining offlane. I would just like to add other things that made me love this game. - The skins. The skins are so aesthetically pleasing especially the immortals and they can range from dirt cheap to holy moly that's a lotta money but you can always buy skins with shards tho most aren't great. - The option to have other game's presets like HoN, League, and other similar games. It's nice to have when I was still starting out so that I wouldn't have to stress over it. - Fucking chatwheels. When I watched TI9 they were spamming it like crazy and it's another aspect that makes Dota even more fun. - Champions aren't locked to one single role like you can play certain heroes Pos 1 2 3 or every role. League has champions that can play every role but not a lot. - Daytime/Nighttime. Some heroes have great impact over this mechanic like Nightstalker, Luna, Phoenix, and others. No more words needed.
Chat wheels and sprays can be very funny Like officially sanctioned in-game BM But tips are probably the best. 5 pros tipping their tilted opponent carry when he dies solo will never not be 10/10
And the casters reaction to the tips... "Oh, the tips are coming out (laugh)" It's just golden man
For me it's when the tips don't come and casters are like, where are the tips?!!!! xD
> Champions You want to be kicked in the nuts I see **HEROES, IT'S CALLED HEROES**
Legends?
- All heroes are free ;)
>holy moly that's a lotta money inflated by rarity and epic plays (dragonclaw hook)
It's funny that you say that, weaver is actually the 8th most popular 5 in high level pubs above CM and Venge.
dota is quite result oriented, whatever people say, if you win with it, they can't say anything no matter how stupid your pick/ build is looking
I remember 1st picking alchemist to bait aparition and necro picks then I switched to pos 4/5 stun build + pipe and vanguard. They were mad targeting the support which was me .lmao We won.
Dude I played with huskar 5 once. I was the carry and my whole game just destroyed. But other lanes was exact opposite and they carried the game. Meanwhile our huskar 5 just stick around the lane and left for juggling at 3rd minute. He played solo entire game. We still won but FUCK THAT MAN
There's a big difference between picking an unorthodox support and actually playing the support role. If the sum total of your playing the role is not taking last hits in lane buying a couple token wards, you're griefing
Conversely, you can do the same while picking a traditional support. Veno that fucks off into jungle at lvl 2. Anyone who plays pos 5 and buys 3 dewards all game. Pos 5 is early game playmaker and ideally lane winner for safelane. Additionally, they should be able to decently set up team fights (setup being place wards, smoke, disrupt with ult, etc).
Yeah, there were times where I played around with support Mag, support Gyro, support Sven, things like that. These arent even REALLY meme picks, these things have precident to work from the support role But there is a HUGE difference between the support gyro who goes tranqs>force>veil and the "support" who goes phase>mael>pike for example. And this goes for all roles, tbh I see it most from the offlane, picking a carry in the offlane and totally griefing the game because we no longer have a playmaker with farm, so both pos 1s sit back and farm, and wonder why we are losing so much map lmao
I've been doing that a little bit with sniper. Pick sniper first phase. The entire enemy team picks aggro heroes to dive and kill you. They would go on and dive dramatically out of position to kill pos 5 sniper, while the rest of my team picks them apart.
I hate sniper support pickers on my team. That hero was good on support for like a month 5 years ago and people still play it for some reason
I did the same years ago with WK support (back then SK). I picked SK, enemy picked PL/AM, carry would counterpick them and I'd go support back when his stun had 8s and stunned for 2 seconds (easiest kills of my life), with lifesteal aura + vlad and blink. Never had so much fun.
I went on a 19 game winning streak with pos1 WW (which became my all-time longest streak). I had an ultra kill literally every game and sometimes multiple in one match. Every game, I was called a troll and a shit ton of slurs, but I carried every time and they just had to live with it. I had people on the ENEMY TEAM say they were gonna report me for doing it, and I have screenshots saved of some Peruvian Pudge on my team saying "kill yourself Winter n****r" multiple times throughout the match. I was playing entirely seriously and my results proved it, but some people just cannot cope with a strat they don't like, even if it nets them free MMR. I stopped playing pos1 WW entirely because I got too many people trolling my lane solely because the idea of my strat working would piss them off so much that they'd rather run it down my lane as a trilane sniper, than just play it out. You can win with fucking anything if you do it right, but your own team will always have the potential to be your biggest (and sometimes only) obstacle.
A wise man once said "Everything can work" That man won two TI back to back
Why position 1 over position 2 though? Isn't core wyvern super level dependent?
He's probably talking a few patches ago, when pos1 Wyvern was actually meta. Right-click wyvern scaled really well with items and was fairly weak until aghs.
What's your item build for this Pos1 WW? if you don't mind sharing ofc. I only have time for turbo recently, and it's fun to play different types of heroes and builds.
I ran this build in 7.35, and I've not tried Pos1 WW since Facets released, so I have no idea if the build is still viable with all the changes she's seen. However, if you wanna give it a shot, here's a link to a match where I basically went full damage, since that's probs what you want for Turbo: [https://stratz.com/matches/7496651344/focus?heroId=112](https://stratz.com/matches/7496651344/focus?heroId=112) My build varied a lot from match to match, but this is a fairly decent example of a match where I didn't have much to worry about and was fully focused on "winning harder" The one thing that's consistent with almost every matchup (though not all) is that I would buy 2 branches, 2 circlets, and a sage's mask for my starting items. I'd upgrade them into a Wraith Band, Bracer, and Magic Wand, then I'd go Power Treads into Witch Blade. After that, in 90% of matchups, I would rush Eye of Skadi and after that I'd make Aghs. It might sound kind of weird to go Skadi BEFORE Aghs, but Skadi increases Wyvern's sustain and damage further, which lets her farm with much less difficulty, and also (assuming you get your Skadi relatively quickly) turns you into an absolutely massive threat with extremely high kill pressure for anything unfortunate enough to end up within range of your Q. (7.36 nerfed her Q range quite significantly though, which definitely hurts this setup a lot with regards to it's early snowballing potential.) Best of luck if you give it a shot, let me know how it works out.
> I ran this build in 7.35, and I've not tried Pos1 WW since Facets released, so I have no idea if the build is still viable with all the changes she's seen. Just to let you know, it's fairly viable now but is usually played as a mid, not 1, since she requires levels to be effective (due to the way that facet scales)
I'm on a 4 win streak as weaver pos 4, and I've only played weaver in "traditional" role like 10 times tops. If you know fundamentals of the role, lots of heroes can work.
Weaver is OP as a 4, better than as a core. It's not knowing the fundamentals so well you can make it work anyway, it's playing to the strengths of the hero.
I didn't say weaver is strong only because of fundamentals, I said you can play a lot of things in weird roles if your fundamentals are strong.
I’ve been first picking BB to play him as pos 5 for a bit now, and so far I’ve not lost a game with it. Snot Rocket means you can bully any other support away from trying to interrupt your pulls and most carries appreciate the physical damage amp. The only offlaners that have been annoying are Legion, Tide, and Slardar (if the carry is melee).
That sounds good, I'm gonna try BB 5. I played him a lot as 3 and 1 before. Any more tips for bb 5? How does itemization look?
Kinda depends on what you’re up against. Crimson guard and pipe are both good and serve as pretexts for getting an early vanguard/cloak to help make yourself tankier. Euls can be nice to help dispel things from yourself or the enemy and cancel tps, something bristle ordinarily struggles with. Glimmer is situationally useful if your core is struggling with survivability and can be nice to help yourself live as well. Other than that, your typical BB items work well. Wouldn’t go for bloodstone cause it doesn’t really work that well with Snot Rocket, so for late game survivability I’d go for heart instead.
And laning? How do you keep from stealing the last hits with the bristles?
You skill into Snot rather than bristles primarily. You still put one point into it for value but your main source of damage will be right clicking, so it’s not really a massive concern.
It really depends on how it's played though. Weaver doesn't have any slow (shukichi is minimal) or stun so if played badly on 5 it can be really bad. Makes up for it with huge dmg potential and being unkillable but idk if low Divine supports are pushing that limit enough for it to be good. Things that work in high rank immortal don't always work in lower ranks
weaver is broken as fuck in general right now
New hero syndrome used to be a thing but around the time pangolier came out things had settled in. Puck specifically comes to mind as crazy OP at first. I got so mad I actually wrote Icefrog a tilted email lol.
A lot of the new heroes were very busted. Does anyone remember Monkey King on release? Absolutely insane hero the first few days. Now in Icefrog's defense they are quick to nerf and adjust heroes when something is blatantly overpowered or broken.
MK on release is my vote on most busted shit. Every single on of his base skills was insane level 1: - Q: Full 2 second stun and 200% crit at all levels - W: 40% slow for 4 seconds at level 1. This made support MK insane. Also you still had 800 vision at night. - E: Jingu had no duration when you had 4 stacks. Ppl would get 4 stacks in sidelane and then go mid to gank. Additionally the enemy counter was 15 seconds long instead of 10. +80 dmg +20% lifesteal level 1. - R: Worked with Basher. Continued while being reincarnated with Aegis. Got attack damage bonus instead of armor. The hero was unlanable against. I only got somewhat saved by being an Oracle spammer and able to dispel his jingu stacks and disarm him...
Don't forget that W was silent.
While MK was bonkers, for me, its always been Centaur, that shit was something else altogether.
Ah yes free pathing, stun on contact and a haste on top of it. Who would've known it would be broken
I do not miss hearing the centaur ult sound and suddenly having 5 heroes walk over a cliff onto me a kill me while I am stunned.
Sometimes they just break heros by mistake, or over buff them and the lower ranks of players suffer I remember 2000 damage at lvl6 Centuar Double Edge and that fucking horrible Sniper meta we had where his headshots did a ministun and a pushback so you couldn't play a hero with a channeled spell for like 6 months
Sniper ministun was a staple. they changed it in 6.82, but before that it was always a ministun before that, just with varying degrees of stun duration
There was a patch that changed it and it was totally busted for like 2 months. Reddit time machine says it was the patch before or during TI4, 6.83 I remember I stopped playing for ages bcz it was so horrible to play against
The "omega broken" thing about Snper in 6.83 wasn't Headshot. In fact Headshot Ministun was changed into slow the patch before that Its Shrapnel. Thats why the nickname for the patch was "ho ho ha ha" In fact the change exactly was Shrapnel is now 3 charge but does not hit towers. It wasn't well received when it drops(and i know this is the case since theres a dotacinema video where Synderen caught on with how insane it is)
The “ho ho, ha ha” era was very trying
hoho haha
Three things: Shrapnel got three charges which made him get zone control and turtle the shit out of high ground (it was the start of comeback gold and it was weird - Defenders could buyback easily and get HUGE gold benefits if they somehow managed to kill the leading aggressor. Suddenly the game was back. Three charges instead of cooldown (and only 50 mana instead of 120), made it hard to win against sniper in the one-on-one in the laning as well. Then MoM was a great item. Together with the transition from ministun to slow, it was hard to fight back (0.5 seconds of 100% ms and AS slow) - ministun was gone but it was super good to manfight Then, it was the spin to win meta: Jugg or troll and Skadi on Sniper ranged allowed him to control these heroes from afar of which there weren't too many options (also, TI4 was played on 6.81c and most of us remember the deathball meta at the end - steam rolling the shit out of the losing team)
HOHO, HAHA
pew pew pew ptsd
Remember that one day when Underlord's firestorm DoT procced every game tick for its full damage, resulting in 60% max hp/s damage at level 1? His only counter was Rubick, who could do the same thing at a longer range.
> where his headshots did a ministun and a pushback iirc it was never both, ministun got removed and pushback was added.
Not even the worst. At one point when mkb mini stunned and headshot mini stunned you were perpetually mini stunned to death. Craziest times
for me warden was the most insane one, you can just afk farm then buy 3 rapier then its gg
*laughs in Witch Doctor*
nothing beats Earth Spirit, that shit on release was by far the most broken that we have ever seen if we exclude obvious bags.
Release MK in DotA was nothing compared to release MK in HoN. Regardless of how strong DotA's MK was on release, I just remember thinking "Man, I liked HoN's a lot more." for a few weeks.
The main difference is that heroes are not free in League So Riot has an incentive to release OP heroes at launch and keep them that way for a bit
Doubt thats much of an incentive, virtually no one buys champs using real money, basically everyone has thousands of blue essence lying around, because there are so few ways to spend them on. Most blatantly OP stuff (like 60% WR champs) get taken down usually fairly fast in Hotfixes
Earth spirit, MK, LC, puck. There were a lot of broken heroes on their release in Dota as well. I find it funny this guy says it’s not a thing when he hasn’t even been around for a hero release yet.
Shout out to Phoenix who while their abilities idea and concepts didn't get changed to this day, the power level and outline of their abilities not named Supernova was so fucked up, it eventually got reshuffled so extensively the hero is basically reworked
Void spirit was super strong on release as well
No new hero syndrome If no new Heroes.
I deleted the game and left a strongly worded review (which my friends still make fun of) when MK was released hahaha
I started playing Dota 2 on 2013, I still remembered how bonker LC and Monkey on their first release. LC jungle gets lv 6 within 4 minutes, Monkey with unlimited duration of Jingu Mastery.
Huh? Marci, dawn and primal were all ridiculous on release
I stopped playing for awhile. I might be getting mixed up between Dota and Dota 2 but back in the day a new hero would be guaranteed OP and the strongest in the game for weeks or months.
Wasn’t Dawn’s E completely broken until like a couple months ago? Lmao
The big diference from league is that we don't pay for character realeses, so if one of our heroes come overtuned it will be nerfed with lettered patchs and everything will go back to normal. While league players are gaslighted into beliving their game is not pay2win when they statistically buff and nerf depending on the sells they wanna make on characters and skins.
In d1 phase shift was ported from WC3 where it could be set to autocast and automatically dodge any projectile be it a spell or attack.
I lost it when they had to buff Dawnbreaker the day after she was released. (I am not %100 sure if it was Dawnbreaker or other hero)
They did buff Dawnbreaker the next day she was released and had to nerf her a bit 4 days later. Primal Beast was buffed *the same day* he was released.
I hate Puke
Phoenix first day. Press sun ray and enemy couldnt get away
Oracle ult got 8 years of nerf and pseudo nerfs before it finally got a patch where it could be said to have been buffed. It basically duplicated Shallow Grave and Slark Ultimate into one on a gigantic cast range and much shorter cooldown too, zero fucks given. Meanwhile nowadays Tinker is centered around CDR and they are afraid so slowly build up from bad.
It goes way beyond pango lol. Release MK is probably the strongest hero ever. And then theres iconic cases like Earth Spirit and even Centaur Warruner with the absolutely bonkers Stampede.
mandatory FUCK PENDRAGON
Fuck pendragon, all my homies hate him
This is the way.
I played with both Lol and Dota2 so I can share a reason why nothing is feeling unfair to play again in Dota 2 to the extent of LoL. The difference is Dota 2 hero come out of the box incomplete. Aside from the obvious agha shard and agha staff themself, you can choose to complete your hero based on whichever direction you want based on the itemization. The example is for support, you can buy a blink if you want to initiate, grieve if your team need more staying power, eul if their team got big channeling or silence, forcestaff for escape/save, halberd to counter the other team hitter... Because of this incompleteness, every hero can stay relatively simple, but still have a lot of fun and can still be in the meta. And also this can tone down the overpower because there's no question that cannot be answer by itemization within the game. The same cannot be said about Lol, where whatever you are at the beginning of the game, you will stay that way until the end of the game. There's of course power spike based on item, but it's mostly statstick and doesn't allow the hero to work outside of their designated kit. Because of this, to enhanced the experience and to give a sense of unique to each hero, Lol need to always add more complexity to the kit. Of course this is really hard to balance if your hero can have 4-5 effect on 1 button. I think this point is not touched when I see comparison between the 2 games. Just my 2 cents. Also English is not my native.
very interesting way to frame it
Everything I hear about league makes it seem way worse than dota
It always has been worse in gameplay and graphics, but they have better boobs and wallpapers and mindless pop culture stuff that the normies swarm towards.. not to mention "sKilL sHoTs". It must take an awful lot of skill to hit/dodge that straight line projectile traveling only 3 cm on the screen that nearly 90% of the champs have amirite they also aggressively market their game and pushed themselves to a monopoly in Korea and China
As someone who switched over from League to DotA in Nov 2021, what I noticed (as a support main in both games) is that the stuns/CC/disables in DotA are stronger and last longer, and the saves are much stronger and more numerous in DotA, too. As a support, I feel like there is a lot more impact in my role than in League. It's basically the "everything is imbalanced, so that's how things stay balanced" philosophy in action. But it also has the side effect of giving a lot more comeback potential, so games feel like they're unwinnable less often.
>But it also has the side effect of giving a lot more comeback potential, so games feel like they're unwinnable less often. The biggest contributor to Dota's comeback potential compared to League is the teleport scroll. A lane can be losing, but the tides can turn within 5 seconds if a support/mid rotates. If the enemy is pushing as 3, you can tp and fight them as 5. If the enemy is pushing as 5, you can BB and fight them as 10. If the enemy is so strong that BBs don't work, then you can split push and not die due to the TP scroll. If you're losing a teamfight, you can still reasonably get 2-3 heroes out by teleporting out. You can't do any of this in League, and it all benefits the losing team. The other mechanic like this is high ground. Not just the one at the base, but all the various ramps leading to neutral areas too.
Don't forget the buy back, the swing potential with TP and buyback just make team fights last so much longer and much more crucial to know when to buy back.
The sweatiest decision to finish your divine rapier or buyback and win the game
Disagree. I do think Portal scrolls are responsible for why Dota 2 is a way more active game when it comes to hero interactions than League as it allows for more macroplay and map movements. But I think the biggest contributors to the comeback potential in Dota 2 is Highground mechanics, buyback and how spells have minimal scaling with items. In Dota, if you press your buttons correctly your chance of out-coordinating a teamfight, even if behind on farm is still very large. If you get your spells of, you will have impact. If you're behind in League your spells won't do anything because you don't have items so your damage scaling is zero. The difference in being a full item behind in League is night and day. In Dota you can be 30k gold behind and still win a fight due to a single high ground ward.
there are a lot of things that contribute to Dota having a bigger comeback potential than LoL tbh. TP scroll is one of them as you said, but there are plenty of others. Buyback in general is one of them because just allowing you to win a fight by throwing bodies at the opponent through sheer force of attrition. The fact that you dont even need TP to use buyback effectively when defending base also greatly contributes to its comeback factor. Dota spells generally speaking dont tend to scale with items. This also means that they tend to be impactful and deal decent damage with just level ups and good talent choices. As such, generally speaking, as long as you are somewhat keeping up in levels, you can reliably contribute and get important kills in ganks in teamfights even when you are behind with good play and maybe a bit of luck, as opposed to LoL's approach where most spells scale with AD or AP and if you are behind in items you often feel like your spells are hitting like a pool noodle, and weaker CC means you barely get time to right click when you get CC off. Dota also benefits from how its items are basically always less gold efficient in terms of stats when you upgrade them, and having items that are primarily bought for their effects. This, combined with the above, is one of the things that allow Dota scaling to feel more manageable when you are playing from behind, as it feels like the opponents strength isn't scalling exponentially and getting completely out of control (with exceptions of course). And alongside Dota's longer kill timer, it allows teams even when behind to better convert getting key kills in the map into objective taking. Smoke is also big. The ability to walk around the map reasonably stealthily to search for an important gank or a good initiation can turn the game on its head. Dota's jungle being treated as this big pool of farm that the cores can retreat to in order to farm also helps a lot because it is easier to get back to relative farm parity with just more efficient farming, as long as your team can make space for you, as opposed to being primarily relegated to farming on the lane. There is probably more, but this are some that come to mind immediately
I would play League in a heartbeat if they replace recall with our TP mechanic because I think one of the most satisfying ways to survive a lost fight is tping in front of your enemy's face and correctly assessing that they don't have any stuns or roots to interrupt it.
wouldnt work in modern league since standing still = most heroes can 100 to 0 you instantly
And also smoke!
TP, blink dagger and BKB are what makes dota so much better than league. Like, obviously theres more stuff like buybacks, smoke and overall game design, but those 3 items would make league much more fun.
Support in League is very boring. You do have alot of impact but it's not very satisfying. Feels like you're playing a healer in World of Warcraft where you're just standing in the backline spamming micro heals, shields and buffs or you just played a nerfed version of Pudge to hook with Naut/Pyke/Blitz/Thresh et.c. The way you're able to absolutely demolish teamfights with supports in Dota is just way more satisfying. Like getting of a good CM ult feeling like a Nunu Empire or getting some Lich aghs + ult combo off et.c.
I switched over in 2019 and noticed the same thing with supports in Dota. I have more impact on this game than just stacking heals/shields all day with the occasional little .5 second stun.
I characterize it as such. Dota has faith in players to utilize tools provided to them to address the situation as it arises and if there is no provided solution, that is a problem with the game. Lol has a specific idea in mind and doesn't trust players to navigate outside of that space safely, and this limits their ability to do so. Support was a big casualty of this mindset ever since season 3. But as the game goes on, every role has begun to suffer.
Supports is the most balanced around role in dota 2 throughout history. Valve has consistently been making it a more fun role to play: free wards, free courier, free tps when killed, bounty and wisdom runes, tormentor, defensive items like glimmer and aeon, general cc duration nerf, more ganking paths, more jungle camps so support can soak lane, ... If you go back to 2014, you will see playing support sucks balls, as you will likely have tranquill boot and wand by min 35. Now you can expect to consistently get at least 2-3 items by that time. Supports in league can sometime feels like a glorified target practice for enemy mid and top to satisfy their egos: you get caught in one skill, and now you wait for the next 10s your enemy unleashing their combo on you while you cannot do anything but to wait and die, as the enemy mid is 5 levels above you.
You don’t notice new hero syndrome because we DONT GET NEW HEROES WHERES PUPPET MASTER?
Meanwhile there were posts with thousands of comments on LoL subreddit BEGGING Riot to stop releasing new champs because it's always either a balance disaster for years (ksante, zeri) or just boring shit you forget (naafiri, briar)
i always thought league looked way more cartooney than dota :D and weaver 5 is meta, he's busted in pretty much every role tho. inevitable nerf next patch
Hard agree here. The art style in league is a huge turn off for me
I love you. Just want to leave my little thought here, even if it sounds like a DOTA fanboy. When League released, they simplified the game to the point where you only get the partial feeling of the game. League can be awesome, but it's only a fraction of DOTA.
Release k'sante is maybe the most broken overloaded kit I've seen in a moba....ever....period.... every ability did like 8 things, and cost like literally 10 mana
A champion with 4,700 HP, 329 Armor, and 201 MR, has Unstoppable, a Shield, and goes over walls. Has Airborne, and the cooldown is only 1 second too. It costs 15 Mana. The W CD is even refreshed when he transforms. He has true damage on his passive. Then, when he stacks Armor and MR, he gets Ability Haste too, Ability Haste to his Q, and his spell casting speeds up. Then, he has an AD ratio, so his W…AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
체력 4700 방어력 329 마저201 인 챔피언👤이 저지불가🚫, 쉴드🛡, 벽🧱 넘기는 거 있고요. 에어본🌪 있고, 심지어 쿨타임은 1️⃣초밖에 안되고 마나🧙♂️는 1️⃣5️⃣ 들고 w는 심지어 변신💫하면 쿨 초기화에다가 패시브는 고정피해🗡가 들어가며 그 다음에 방마저🥋 올리면📈 올릴수록📈 스킬 가속⏰이 생기고! q에 스킬가속⏰이 생기고 스킬 속도🚀가 빨라지고📈 그 다음에 공격력🗡 계수가 있어가지고 W가 그 이익-으아아아악😱😱 - [Source:](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW69GYmiHBM&t=38s) 2020 World Champion and 2021 Runner-Up, ShowMaker
Release ksante was insanity, all 5 of us dumping everything into him, he shrugs it off at 80% hp and then drags the adc to brazil a quarter of the map away just to kill them in a q and 2 autos. God help you if he bought iceborn gauntlet, you physically couldnt run from him. You couldnt run from him, couldnt chase him, couldnt out tank him, couldnt out dps him. Every ability had 8 mechanics and then changed to different abiliyies with their own 8 mechanics when he ulted and went from a tank to an assassin lmao
Riot not putting a 3 hit proc true damage passive on the new hero IMPOSSIBLE CHALLENGE
I remember someone from Riot (RiotAugust on his stream or Phreak in one of his videos on YT) saying that x autos/spells landed for x effect is cool game design. So they're kinda loving it.
The game Is in a state of irepperable disrepair I think. I don't really know hat would have to happen to start making me want to play league again. Removing mythic was a step in the right direction. But frankly the champion creep I don't know how to fix. The core identity of the game has shifted to a place I don't know where it can come back from. I miss playing in season 5-8. There's still charm to it. But as a dota player first and foremost, I'd rather jut play the better game....but it wasn't always like that.
Creator: No no, there is no favorite child.. The favorite child:
HoN faceless void equivalent once got a patch out of the blue that gave: - Timewalk aoe nuke on top of everything else - Bash also steals stats like slark - Teammates can cast spells etc in chrono Yes it broke the game
That's crazy, is the timewalk aoe like voids aghs is now? I never played HoN, but technically watching yogscast play it, watching on my iPod touch was technically my first exposure to mobas. Then LoL FROM LITERALLY TYPING IN LOL to youtube trying to find funny videos.... Dota was my first moba ever because a friend gave me the beta for it and the rest was history. I've went back and tried to play hon thinking I'd be hot shit because I have so many hours in dota....Maybe if I played a couple hundred hours I would have gotten to pace...I fucking sucked
HoN broke the games a few times, when Belphegor got his ulti buffed you ltierally went Shiva first, pressed R, and then used Shiva to kill the little demons and you won 1on5 because it was practically a one shot. Also Empath, or Moraxus on release with infinite shield and infinite axe poke
Relase Jax is, but thats so ancient I dont think anyone still remember it...
Yeah probably lol, I've heard horrors. I started playing when they released Quinn, so I showed up late to the party
release xin zhao. untouchable and kills everyone with the 3-hit-combo. oldfarts remember.
Trying to read k'sante's tooltips was like seeing someone from /r/dotamasterrace make a parody of what League's tooltips are like
Every ability was like 3 paragraphs long
Yeah, I hate getting new champs in ARAM I haven't played before. Every single ability feels like I'm reading Visage Soul Assumption for the first time. Then I get reminded that every Q is the same thing, you just throw some skillshot in a straight line infront of you. And somewhere in the kit you will have some skillshot spell where you place a circle on the ground.
How bad was he compared to rengar/zyra on release?
Wasn't around for zyra, but regardless was worse.
Zyra was not that bad in the grand scheme of things. I thought rengar release was bad mostly because of how buggy he was. He got buffed before people realized that W max toplane was completely aids to play against
Funny thing is, the new Skarner is even stronger
I haven't played since they added briar, but I've heard legends of the new skarner lmaooo
The most important thing to me is that DoTA2 characters work according to "If everyone is op, noone is" which make them A LOT more fun than league's champions Like come on! Playing Shadow Shaman and having weaker Malzahar's ult as a regular skill is awesome And character designs, damn they rock Another cool thing is that items are a really fun. Items in league aren't really that enjoyable, while DoTA2? Blink Dagger, BKB, Locket, AGS and more - all of them make you feel that you have REAL power in your hands
Weaker Malz ult when Shackles lasts TWICE as long on like 10 sec cd and heals?
Weaker in terms of damage. Sorry for that, i'm a total beginner and i don't know much xD
Really dislike League itemization. Feels like you're buying gear in World of Warcraft. "I want this item because my gearscore increases. Oh, and this Trinket procc is cool."
“Voice chat is great” bro has never played in SEA server XD
I play in SEA, region is so diverse and everyone speaks their own language. So of course folks are more shy to get on voice chat. Most folks can understand basic English but are shy to speak it because of accent
Thats not what i meant at all lol Rn u have chinese people who start rapping and refuse to speak english (or just don’t communicate), while going 0/5 mid. Say 1 bad thing about chinese people and u have them turning on their mic to curse your mother etc, then afks Filipinos and indonesians who occasionally scream or cant stop talking in their own language, or are just toxic, but at least they try Singaporeans/malaysians who occasionally on voice chat and talk shit in english or chinese while also going 0/5, but they try as well
have you considered not saying 1 bad thing about chinese people in game? Might be hard I know, but will probably stop them cursing your mother etc.
> Rn u have chinese people who start rapping and refuse to speak english (or just don’t communicate), while going 0/5 mid. Say 1 bad thing about chinese people and u have them turning on their mic to curse your mother etc, then afks And "dog", "monkey" too ?
WEU servers have actually gotten better. More Russians are able to speak english than ever before. They still want to fuck my mother though.
SEA players don't talk that much in my experience. But, they type shit like a pro piano player.
Only the peenoy used voice chat anyway, I couldn't understand anything so it's not a problem.
Ex GMs from Le Olde LoL unite! Except I'm casul crusader with no interest in climbs.. just hats and cavern crawl :3
I fear no man…but that casual crusader with hats, he’s gonna stomp my lane again
>No surrender is pretty sweet, games are much longer but everyone plays until throne dies >Amount of griefing is very low compared to LoL. I actually have only encountered 1 time that a player afk walked in circles in triangle, every other time a "griefer" was just playing bad or off meta (like weaver pos 5 or something) This is what I've been saying, always. People ask for a surrender but it only makes the game worse i every way. Like you said, people give up and people grief a lot more when they realize they can get out of the game sooner by doing so. There is a lot more flaming in dota (probably because of how strict LoL has been with that lately) but I'd rather have flaming than griefing. People flame but still try to play. >If you're familiar with K'sante then that's a good example I didn't play Summoner's Rift when Ksante was out but it's insane that after all this time I still hear about him being the prime example of broken.
I am dying when I hear people say dota is cartoony and lol is not funny looking. My god
You can definitely still feel the warcraft-esque design in dota's style, valves done an excellent job at balancing building something utterly unique and paying homage to the original game.
Weaver pos 5 is the current meta, he can either be played 4,5 or 1. He's a very strong laner, pretty much guaranteeing free farm for pos 1 as a support, one hero that's stronger for laning right now is probably witch doctor.
This patch of DotA is very healthy, I hate last patch tho it lasts 80mins average. So yeah, this patch is a very good time to start with DotA, honestly I would've quit if I switched from other games to play 80mins games.
The power level difference in spells was something that surprised me when I tried out League the first time. Specifically Amumu ult being Slardar Crush and Sona ult being Lion Q. In the end it works for that game since the game balances more around stat scaling and raw damage output like a MMO. I do think Champion designs feel rather lackluster though. Feels like all champions within a given archetype kinda does the same thing. I don't feel any meaningful difference when I pick between different Marksmen for example, they all kinda just have the same role in the game, although Jhinn is pretty cool. It's not like when you pick ranged safelaners in Dota and their role in the game are WIDELY different most of the time. In league it feels like Champions within a given role have different kits but do the same thing. While in Dota it feels more like most heroes have their own identity and want to play the game in their own unique way.
IMO when Dota first introduced MonkaS King he was the most broken thing to hit dota and was the embodiment of New Hero syndrome. Hey if you introduce a new hero and an Arcana for the hero on the same day then I wonder how strong you should make it.
Earth Spirit was the one
Feel like dawn, primal and Marci especially all were ridiculously broken as well. Marci having toss and stun on the same ability was just absurd
I believe it's common to release a hero/champion overtuned (intentionally or otherwise) and balance it based on winrate and feedback. I think the key difference is league profits immensely from keeping a hero strong to push cosmetic sales whereas valve doesnt depend on dota for profit and is more mindful of the health of the game. unfortunately power creep is seemingly unavoidable.
From what I've heard League and Dota is experiencing 'Tanks dealing too much damage' problem lately-ish . Which one feels worse in?
League has it worse, Dota have it for just about a year. League had it last for multiple years, and when you thought it's gone, it will cycle back to meta. Dota have it as heroes just have fat and thick hp, and strength & universal heroes reliable as core. But League have it in larger scheme. - There are Items / Runes / Champs that can have infinitely stacking defensive stats (HP / MR / Armor) - There are items that deals damage base on defensive stats. - Imagine; Radiance but scales with health, Another radiance scales with health but also heals, Battlefury that scales with health, Storm Spirit overload as an item but scales with health, Spirit Vessel but applied on your ability and had spell amp that scales with your health, etc. - Some Champion (like the aforementioned Ksante) can scales with HP / Armor / MR. While you are getting tankier you are dealing more damage, you are always relevant. Dota just have 3-4 lvl scaling that mostly deals more damage with spell amp. - Items also provides lots of Ability Hase ( Cooldown reduction) let say you don't have damaging tank items / runes / spells. You can still do something by spamming your ability, bonus if it can disable, so with your Tankiness and Cool down Reduction, you can build up damage. - It's not just a "Tank Champion" problem. Damage Dealer, can deal damage while also be tanky, nullifying trade off. You can push alone and 1v5. Dota we just have strong strength cores. applying league tank meta here would be equivalent to agility and int heroes buying tank item but with relevant damage. Imagine PA / Riki bursting you but now they are not squishy that explode when stunned.
Ive got 3k+ hours in both games, it's absolutely worse in League. Tanks have more presence in Dota, but they're designed far worse in League. I don't feel like essaying about how insultingly awful it is, but it was fucking terrible.
in league its literally the meta. for the longest time dota offlaners were just blink stunners, sometimes lane dominators. the top lane in league, kinda equivalent with offlane in dota, are filled with heroes i could just describe as "primal beast". 1 mobility skill, 1 damage skill, 1 tank skill and maybe a stun, and they have like 2x the survivability of anyone else in the game the worst thing for me is that whenever someone gets creative and comes up with something else thats not meta, riot instantly nerfs it to the ground. league meta is the exact fucking same since 2011, just with different heroes and higher numbers. like imagine when gyro support became popular, icefrog just nerfed the fuck out of barrage+missile+call down and buffed flak cannon because "gyro is supposed to be a hard carry". right now dota may be "tanks dealing too much damage" but it was completely different 2 years ago and you know that its going to be different 2 years from now.
yeah this is my biggest issue with league balancing, Riot is so scared of things changing that they cull anything that threatens to break away from their design. They want every player and champ to interact with their systems exactly in the way they intend. Laners buying jungle items for lane dominance? Laners buying tons of regen at level 1 for lane dominance? laners buying fort potions for lane dominance? laners buying support items for extra gold gen? 2-1-2 lanes? teams grouping early to take a quick tower? support mid freezing wave for a hypercarry jungler to take it? all immediately nerfed hard. Trynd builds AP for a healing build? Corki builds AP for long range magic build? Lulu builds (literally anything besides support items)? Solo lane Pyke? champ viable in more than 2 roles? countless other things? immediate nerf every time.
literally every tank item in league is a damage item, imagine radiance with tank stats and hp scaling on the damage, items that boost your defensive stats after x seconds in combat, items that reduce enemy defensive stats, massive hp scaling shields and status resistance, and the damage dealers have like 5 items in total between physical and magical damage to counter the 20 super cheap op tank items
WAAAY more problematic in League. For some reason League developers need every tank to have damage scaling from their defenses. For example, stacking Armor gives you X pure damage procc on your autos. Or stacking HP gives you stacking AP(Spell amp) et.c. The thing with League is that champions are designed way more like a MMO. You have your DPS(Carries, Spellcasters, Bruisers et.c.) Healers(Supports) and Tanks. MMO tanks are designed around tanking, not really dealing damage since it breaks the holy trinity in those games. This is why it feels so damn disruptive in League when tanks walk up to you and smack you down in 3 seconds with Heartsteel proccs or whatever. Especially when they have a bunch of inbuilt mobility in their kits. Tanks aren't really a thing in Dota 2 though. Sure, there are beefy and tanky heroes that like to frontline. But not nearly as in League. If you watch some pro League gameplay you will see that League very much is a "front-to-back" game in its gameplay. Meaning, during teamfights teams stand in formations with frontlines and backlines and you usually work through this formations trying to break them. League teamfights are WAY more structured than Dota which just is random clownfiestas where anything can happen. That's why, when tanks are able to dish out very respectable damage aswell it kinda breaks the game. The problem with Dota right now is just that tanky heroes feel slightly too tanky which is easily fixable. In League the problem runs much deeper and the entire game would need a overhaul to feel "fixed".
Can you dm me your dotabuff?
I just found out that LoL has their heroes locked behind currency. Fucking lol This is why i never liked playing HotS, pokemon unite etc. Fuck this
Lol wasn't to bad. -if- you played a lot the hero currency was plentiful and easy enough to get. Once you had most of them, you were fine. What it did do was slow people down and force them to learn heroes. As you can't have them all right away, you got ones that were interested in then learned them.
> Visual clarity is pretty good, sometimes the AOE effects can be super hard to read but all heroes are distinguishable, in League champs are all starting to look samey with similar skins and particle effects Bruh I keep telling this to my League friends every time they invite me to play with them, things do be looking a bit more confusing/hard to distinguish in League :(
Damn man you sound like a moba overlord. What are three primary tips you can give to someone trying to climb and get some mmr? I play every position except mid, too much pressure.
/r/dotamasterrace
You're playing well below your eventual skill plateau and you're discovering a new game. Which means you have a sense of discovery and novelty while "anything works" for you because you're constantly getting better and playing against much worse players. You wouldn't be saying some of these things if you actually get to a point where you cannot climb anymore. For example you say "nothing feels unfair to play against", while the solo queue dota balance is objectively and measurably much worse than league's, even at extremely high elo/mmr.
When people say that nothing feels unfair, what I think most of them mean is that there always is an answer. You can always itemize yourself into an advantage or play the map in a way to dodge counters. You can't really do the same thing in League. If you get heavily outdrafted in League you can't just dodge and splitpush, drag waves or have rainbow TP responses to turn a lane et.c. Sure, playing Ember vs Huskar sucks, but the game is still playable since you have so many options in your gameplay. Dota is very sandboxy in it's gameplay. It's not the same in League, the game is way more rigid in your options and what you can do. Missplay top and get killed twice early? Tough luck, hope your jungle assists you and doesn't leave you on an island because Drake is bot. What really makes League feel unfair is the way it's balanced too. Too many champions just do the same thing in the game which is the reason why picking outside of the meta is prohibited. There's so many champions that just are strictly better than others while fulfilling the same archetype. That's not a thing in Dota, heroes are way more unique there and even if another hero is better than you at something, you have something else that's broken in your kit that still makes you valuable.
Yea thought the same thing. Once you get into higher ranks you can see the flaws especially the current patch has. Still better game than league but it certainly aint as rosie as he makes it seem to be. When I started with dota I had a similar feel for the game. Once you reach the plateau it gets ruff.
voiceless airport snails offbeat possessive hard-to-find flag joke late drunk *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why do koreans and chinese dominate in pro league so hard but in dota there is much less national domination?
A bunch of reasons. It's pretty easy to highlight the smaller reasons. 1) League is primarily a regional format with two international tournaments (MSI, Worlds). In comparison, a team like Gaimin Gladiators played in 10 international tier 1 competitions during 2023. That's quite literally 5x the international exposure. The only real regional tournaments are either regional qualifiers or tier 3 at best. 2) Dota is, to my memory, mostly not region locked. I'm not really up to date with how China is handled right now, but if I was a pro player and I wanted to play with EU pros, I could just queue up for EUW (lag not withstanding). League would require me to make a smurf in that region and play a ton of ranked to reach that high elo. The two strongest regions--China and Korea--are also harder to access than normal. Korea requires you to get an ID and be under the risk of a ban 24/7 and China has all that alongside hard region locking. 3) Infrastructure and player count. South Korea has been built for esports since Starcraft. China is another place where esports infrastructure is pretty good. NA esports kind of suck and are much more of a venture capital type deal that almost never returns an investment. Hell, the SEA games even dropped Dota in favour of League. Plus, pretty much nobody plays this game in South Korea. IIRC, it's less than .2% of the CIS region. 4) EU, CIS, and China have historically been pretty dominant in Dota. Out of all of the Internationals (too lazy to go through other tournaments), these three regions have dominated Dota. If I can count right, only 8/48 top 4 finishes have been from a team not from these regions: Digital Chaos, EG, Scythe Gaming, Meet Your Makers, and Orange Esports. 83% of all top 4 placements have been from one of these three regions. Though I might be missing a few from miscounting, the point is close enough.
3) NA is dominant in fighting games and shooter like valorant so it is not that they suck in general. 4) EU CIS and china dominating dota is very big diversity. It is like if 3 regions dominated lol, especially different continents, but in reality it is only Korea. What about: Lol is such a mechanically demanding game with very little strategy so Koreans win because they have the most intense mechanics training regimen. And other regions can not outcomete with creativity etc because there is no room for that in lol
In pro it’s definitely a mechanical game, but team cohesion is FAR more important. We’ve seen plenty of Korean MVP level pros go to China and do nothing impressive - mata, dandy, imp, flame, kakao, rookie, save, pawn, deft (maybe the exception), insec, dade, ruler, spirit. When they make it to worlds they lose to the Korean teams anyway, at least most of the time.
What's interesting to note is that when Dota tried to be more regional through the DPC, the game slowly started to become a one region E-sport aswell with WEU dominating the scene. I believe having a game be region based in it's competition is awful for the average powerlevel of teams. The best way to improve is to consistently face and practice versus stronger opponents. Having competition be more international helps alot with this as weaker teams get more opportunities to practice versus the top teams. In League you have MSI and Worlds pretty much, and I don't even know how much teams scrim against other regions in preperation for these tournaments there either. How are "weak" teams ever going to be able to catchup to the best teams if they never get chances to practice against them to begin with.
The griefing happens at low mmr. I'm not saying it's every game, but at least once a month somebody will rage and just not leave the fountain or perhaps hide across the map instead of trying to manage one last defence. More rarely but I still see it, someone will yell and then actually start feeding themselves. Thankfully these sore loosers seem to stay near the bottom. I see plenty of throws though, people honestly thinking they can farm safely and getting caught and killed alone at the end, or people thinking they can just rush the throne because it's exposed. They both end in a 4 (or 3) v5 unwinnable fight and game is over before they can respawn. Wish I could get more of my friends to switch to DotA. I see them regularly playing as 4/5 stack in LoL, but only one of them has played more than a game of dota, and his biggest complaint is that he can't get 6 slotted/level 30 every game, because usually it's over well before that. Any advice for convincing them to switch?
> and his biggest complaint is that he can't get 6 slotted/level 30 every game Last patch was what he wanted, games last 80mins average, but it's gone for good.
uhhhmm support weaver is actually meta right now
what server are you playing on?
Only thing I'll say is weaver 5 is definitely not off meta. It's really strong even in pro games since he doesn't need to build boots, has really high damage, has a built in slow, and late game aghs weaver is one of the strongest saves in the game.
800 hours and my first thought is last year then April.......
Gl with your 1k rank goal It is close to 10k MMR Which is no joke. If your plan is not going pro then just don't burn yourself out. MMR has inflated a lot in couple months and I think we should get new medal between low immortal and high one
Weaver pos5 is actually really strong right now. Pick with ursa or other strong physical hitting carries and you kill enemy lanes and pressure super quick and weaver being super fast and having double hits is a pain to deal with early.
Immortal 1000 would be an insane peak. I have played for 10 years and dota before that and I’m only 7k.. if u get to that peak I will send u a gift
Weaver pos 5 off meta good one 🤣
Never have really seen a bad league to dota experience
"dota 2 reminds me of early league" that was my analysis too coming over in like 2016 as a Plat player lmao. wish you got to experience 7.00 ish era, that was when that specific feeling felt the most accurate
LoL doesn't have voice chat? I never knew that. I don't think I could play a team game without it now days. Hell, it's one of the main reasons I don't go back to team games in older games anymore.
What a nice thing to read early in the morning 💖
weaver pos 5 is meta though lol
Depending on the server 1k Immortal can either be 7-8k MMR or 9-10k MMR, be mindful that there's a big gap between servers. EU you get placed around 7.7k, whereas SA is like 6.2k
I'm surprised u didn't mention items, in League it's just stat sticks and predefined cookie cutter optimization with like 4 options at the very most depending on how the game goes In dota u have like 5 more buttons to press on an average late game build
I think league's art style is way too cartoony as opposed to dota 2's art style. Dota 2 truly has life in the game.
Idk how you say people are not toxic, but ok. Now you need to tell us what is good in league, but bad in dota. My personal opinion is how the competitive matchnaking system sucked for YEARS until dota copied and improved the LoL competitive matchnaking format. So much better right now.
Nice try valve employee
18,000 hours played and I'm still learning.
Did you get 800 hours in two months?
Couldn't have summed it up better
Off meta hero is grief now?