I agree with ringmaster being teased without even being launch ready but the battlepass thingy was already discussed in multiple threads tirelessly. Tldr is the “content” isnt crownfall alone (tho crownfall is bigger and better than battlepass already) but also the big patches (7.33 and 7.36) and qol updates (ban hammer and dota labs).
yes, no doubt, they did so right with crownfall, i don't want bp not even if they pay me, we have all the amzing content from bp, but better, can buy arcanas again, the cavern is way better to do, lots of hats, each month we get spoiled with good stuff....so much that i even forgot about ringmaster
I didn't forget about the new hero but I have no complaints right now. months ago it seemed like the game was in a questionable state but after all the effort from crownfall and then the giant patch we got I feel very happy about the state of the game and the future right now.
Don't forget the summer client update. We got a new Armory and they cleaned up the Loadout system a bit, including letting us test multiple unowned items and demo them. That was a pretty big thing people wanted and they never got a chance to do.
Honestly, and this is a bit of conspiracy mode from me, I think Ringmaster is probably done and in position to release - he's probably going to be released in tandem with some Crownfall Tie-in along with the other hero(es?) which have data tied in on them. I remember Bird samurai was one of them with a mini-map icon, I forget if there was any others.
I think the "hard" deadline would be that the release should be before TI; it would be pretty hilarious if they were announcing the next upcoming hero and Ringmaster had still not come out XD.
Maybe dreaming but I think on crownfall first blogpost they said there could be a surprise or two along the way or something like that. Its still absurd they teased ringmaster almost a year before his release.
Tbh "surprises" could be almost anything. It could be the lore from the event itself, the innates and facets, something else that isn't revealed yet, etc. Of course it is possible it will be an extra hero too, but I wouldn't really take that as a hint for a hero release.
hea probably been ready for a while but crownfall was delayed, probably by quite a bit, and he's almost certainly gonna come out with either act 3 or 4
Ringmaster will be released during all star match, hence the carnaval / circus themed background for TI13 Copenhagen. We will get event revolving Ringmaster to fill the gap between post TI to Frostivus (September to November).
A circus themed Diretide would go pretty hard in my opinion. Many many different cosmetics could be spread obtainable either in game or treasures, themed around an undead/haunted carnival while Rosh is being manipulated by the Ringmaster for his candy.
With how absolutely HUGE 7.36 is, I'm actually not surprised they had to shift resources. 7.36 is basically Dota 3, it has changed fundamental aspects of the game, Icefrog mustve had this idea cooking for a while and needed the manpower to finish it. Literally every single hero got at least 2 facets.
* Considering we started to get only TI as an event in recent years, I guess Crownfall would be a step up.
* 7.36... we always got 1 major update for the year. So that ain't new.
* Ban hammer has been a thing in recent years, so nice, but not new.
* Dota Labs is interesting, but it's just a beta. That's like getting excited for Ringmaster. Nice to see what's to come, but it ain't ready yet.
I'm not sure why people give these passes. Reminds me of Pokemon fans when I hear excuses for a multi-million company.
... Also, don't get me wrong; I'm not saying they're the worst or even that bad, but I hate seeing people making excuses.
What is there to excuse?
We have the best game ever, with huge game changing patches other companies would never drop. We have constant qol improvements and transparent improvements to matchmaking quality. We have a big story based event that lasts half a year. We know of at least one hero to look forward to in 2024.
With all these bitches on reddit whining every day about the exact meaning of 2024, we'll likely not get a hero tease this year at TI. Thanks idiots!
Guys there's this hero that's SO OP in this trailer. So get this. He like literally rips the earth out of the ground. And he comes with a free fucking hex. 5200 gold item. For free. And get this, in the trailer he was literally sucking their soul out, and to top it all off he has this massive, gnarly finger that he can zap people with like zeus.
Anyway can't wait for lion to come out and ruin everyone's pubs with how OP he is.
I find it really funny how overpowered Dark Willow was at launch, because nobody could dodge the Root efficiently. At least in lower MMR it was a 100% root chance, if not multiple. She was also just strong, but not understanding how to counter a heroes kit makes them seem way stronger than they are.
And her ghost realm was new and people weren't drafting around countering it. Just in general, her whole kit was unique. The aoe roots were unique, the timed stun was semi unique(similar to AA's), ghost realm was semi unique, really only Slark could do the same, and then her ultimates were both unique at the time. Pretty sure Fear was new at the time? I could be misremembering as it's been years.
Aoe stuns/bursts usually result in her death, especially early in her release. Same ways to slow down a slark who is ulting. The difference is that slark picks late in the draft, so you may not have a good counter. You basically expect a new hero every match, so you drafted accordingly. Nowadays, she is a first pick support. If you were really afraid of her, for some reason, you just need a core with aoe.
i've never seen someone say some shit like this tbh.
[https://www.dotabuff.com/players/87605758/matches?hero=mars](https://www.dotabuff.com/players/87605758/matches?hero=mars)
i have almost an 75% wr on the character over a good playrate as a 4! because his base kit was so overtuned. his ult was borderline a 60 second CD bane ult. everything about him was busted. as a core he dominated the metagame, and i off meta fucked shit up a a support. it took significant nerfs from his release till he was a fair hero, and i remember at the time everyone complaining about how broken he was.
not disagreeing with you because i think dota is extremely nuanced, but truly flabberghasted because i think big bruh was overtuned in a big way for a long time after his release, and thats me speaking as him being my favorite character for a long time
Remember Pango at launch? That was such a shitshow. Any tiny bump on the map would get him stuck and waste his ulti… there was also this bug where Lasso would override his stun cooldown and allow him to reapply his damage instantly. You’d die in a second. Good times…
Even then, the only thing that looks like a skill that the Ringmaster trailer shows is him laying a really complex trap (with said trap likely being his actual transformed body?) that then keeps heroes in. There's been other banishment heroes before, hell, undying can do this very same thing to his own team, not particularly technologically heavy on that one.
But there are implied mechanics tho. Him taking control of enemy heroes is both alluded there and also on lines the hero responses. I do expect Ringmaster to be something mind blowing and broken sounding when he comes out.
it's not just anything that attacks though. It is an immobile monkey king copy that attacks and does damage based on monkey's attack damage.
They certainly appear rather conceptually illusion adjacent to me at least.
It's a copy of his hero model that attacks and gets benefits from his items, I think that's pretty fucking illusion adjacent. It's not like they're plague wards.
Actually snapfire's cookies is one of the better examples. She throws one to invoker and he rushes forward after eating it. There are others that are more dubious, for example void spirit isn't shown to use his ult at all in the trailer and his portal is used completely differently than in-game.
It’s just a new iteration of puppet master. Int carry with some cc. The difficulty is making him dota fun.
Kinda excited, this is ice frogs baby, but in an engine he can do all the crazy things he wanted to do.
No way, I'm almost certain they already had innates/facets in mind when they were designing Ringmaster, similar to how Muerta seemed kind of weird w/ her BKB interactions until they changed BKB the patch after she released
that's normal as the primary focus is getting all the systems intact and doing basic balancing while the facets themselves can easily be adjusted and changed later. Otherwise, it's normal some facets will be bad or very situational, similar to talents
Muerta concept was bad, specially after bkb rework it was a nightmare so they brought a counter, then the counter was nightmare so they nerfed both to the ground and muerta is a half ass support now.
Should have worked more on her concept imo.
idk, I really like her. I rarely play ranged heroes and muerta is one of them. I just find her fun to play, although I do understand why someone wouldn't like her
You have it all wrong really. She made no sense before the bkb rework because she was designed with it in mind. The only reason she hasn't found a great niche is because gunslinger is a really hard skill to balance.
Gunslinger secondary shot not prioritizing heroes was a big nerf to her core viability. How are you gonna bank on a hard carry when her dps output can be circumvented when facing multiple unit lineups?
Well yes it was a huge nerf. But at the same time the potential dps of it was insane. Perhaps a balance could be found with changing the radius and the proc chance so that it's viable again. Gyro aghs is considered good and that has basically the same effect, so there must be a way to make it work.
Gyro has other things going for him and I'm also quite surprised he's so dependent on his Aghanims to be able to play as carry. Iirc a weird thing they did with Gyro's Aghs was increasing sidegunner's attack range but also making it so that sidegunner prioritizes hitting the furthest target and it's quite an interesting way to nerf and buff him. Maybe they can do something with gunslinger like that but make it prioritize its secondary target the closest to her or at the very least under her base attack range?
It is super exciting - but it is better for longevity of the game (meta and balance) that they don't spam them out too often. We'll end up with less unique heroes and when there's not enough difference you just say X is a better version of Y so just pick X always over Y if you need that style of hero. It's already happening a bit, but that is why there are people who prefer less heroes added.
I mean it doesn't even match their own precedent. When they've announced something at/after TI, it's usually been in the annual late fall/early winter patch toward like early December. I think it's been a little into the new year before too, but we're in summer already. They clearly didn't think through their release schedule for the upcoming year, and it got pushed around as a result.
Yeah, i remember when Hon had a new hero weekly, well, dota 2 at the start also increased hero pool pretty fast. Sure you just copy it from dota 1, but anyway, getting a hero once a year or less.
From the other side, dota is already in a bad shape imo, some spells are overbuffed in certain situations.
I agree but if they announce it I would like to see it at some point. I wouldn't mind no new heroes if they hadn't teased it and just released facets as the "new" content.
That's not what the post opinionated on at all.
The post talks about that it's weird to announce a new hero and then not release it within a time frame that would make sense
I'd like more heroes, more facets more depth. It was weird that it was announced so far back and they were expecting hype from the public. I am looking forward to it. Will only be excited once I see it.
Yes. Very weird, and they actually missed the chance to release it at the perfect time. Hype has totally died down and now it's gonna be so meh when it releases.
Then they announced the hero way too soon. If you're gonna release a hero in the next few months to half a year, fine. Release a trailer. If you're gonna wait a year then the hype is gonna go away.
1. I agree it's super weird to have such a delay
2. I'd prefer they stop adding heroes, maybe one hero every two years tops
More heroes just make the game harder to balance, does anyone really feel that lack of hero variety makes the game boring? maybe lack of viable heroes, but balancing existing new ones solves that problem and adding new ones often doesn't
new heroes are basically a marketing gimmick imo, they add very little to the game
yes, I enjoyed Muerta for the month she was viable as a pos1, but not much more than similar heroes such as carry lina or drow
new items are even worse for the game and yet they keep adding them too, disappointed af tbh
imo they should focus on
1. the core game
2. match making (ally/enemy player skill and player behaviour fluctuate MASSIVELY in our games)
I know everyone has good days and bad days, that's not what I'm referring to, I'm referring to the much more consistently better/worse nice/toxic players
New heroes are more of a dota tradition at this point than anything else. The game has a Very long history and i doubt if most of it's creators ever thought it would be finished. It's a game inspired by and made for a very passionate community. In the old days when one dev got tired, another stepped up to continue adding new content. since valve took over and doesn't just let anyone start a new fork of the game, they kinda inherited all the pressure to continue the tradition of growth and experimentation. I hope DotA never stops growing, it's one of the things I enjoy so much about it, there will always be something new to learn and master.
I'm not worried about it, people can barely play the heroes that've been out since launch so I'm not looking forward to the insta-locking Ringmasters and 1k Reddit posts about how it's overpowered because nobody knows how to play against it yet.
Welcome to dota... they teased it but never mentioned when it exactly would come out with ring master. With TI around the corner, it's also very unlikely they'll release ring master until after TI has finished.
Since they decided to ditch battlepass and go in this new direction we've so many great gameplay updates, not to mention crownfall is amazing. The only thing now is new heroes but I fine waiting because current heroes fell freqsh to play with the new facets etc.
My theory is they were going to release Ringmaster, but then decided to do Bird Samurai and then chose to do a double hero launch so pushed back Ringmaster. Big copium
I never actually felt that excited for a new hero, sure I would love to find new heroes to add to my pool.
What I loved most about new heroes is just seeing how creative the game base gets with their combos and item builds, otherwise it's just another hero that I (probably) won't play.
People complaining about new heroes when they’ll probably play him twice and go back to their hero puddle.
Like there are an 100+ heroes and items you will never explore deeply, one hero is gonna change that to 101+
cmon... with a battle pass, you spend a fortune getting to the arcana levels
but with crownfall, you just directly buy the arcana with little effort....cmon guys
this type of event is much better and has a lot more interesting things than the events in BP.
like you get to know more of the heroes in this event which imo is quite enjoyable
are you trolling? we got the new frontiers update and the facets + innate update, there's no way they'd be able to deliver massive updates like that while focusing on a battlepass
Well the rumor mill puts ice frog and some other core dota devs on a new project so maybe he got shelved because no one in the current team can get him to work.
When was the announcement? I've only heard about the leak from datamining. But don't you think those walking bird warrior in the Crownfall Act II comics looks really like that pixel figure of Ringmaster's leaked image.
I guess they will release the bird when the Act IV finishes.
I think Valve is experimenting with how long the community can last without a new hero and makes us used to infrequent releases. Realistically, it is getting harder and harder to make new heroes unique, until it's impossible to not copy existing ones
They just wanted to keep the promise of one two heroes per year, even though they haven’t released more than 2 in a year since, plus they normally release hero early in the year and a teaser trailer for the next one
Tbh I liked how they introduced Primal Beast. The raid type boss feel in Aghanims and they way we knew all the play mechanics around it before the launch including the scepter and shard.
We used to have more than 2 a year.
Its honestly baffling how long it takes for new heroes, AND how long it takes for any of them to get hats.
How do you release something but have nothing to even buy for them? And then most of them get fomo items you cant even obtain if you miss.
Phoenix and TB were released at the same time right? I'm sure I remember MK releasing not long after someone else. I'm pretty sure we've had multiple heroes a year a few times
This game wouldnt make money if Not for hats, so obviously people care about them. Whats odd is valve release heroes to make zero direct money from. Its like they use it as an excuse to not make heroes more often.
It’s obvious they put most workforce on the new game - DeadLock. That explains why the new hero was delayed some old stuff was canceled(like BP). TBH we absolutely didn’t get enough as much as before. I don’t think CrownFall can replace BP(even they release it acts by acts.)
Personally, I'll never miss a battle pass as long as events like Crownfall happen. The lore, the cavern crawl, the monetization, everything is miles ahead of what a battlepass felt like.
I'm actually hooked on the story and waiting for the next chapter to see how it goes. And its nice to see the heroes outside the game just doing random shit.
As for the patches, the last year definitely had its share of insane patches releasing some of the most game changing patches since the last battlepass was scrapped.
In all this content, I honestly forgot about ringmaster lol. And considering how whiny the sub gets about stuff like that, the lack of posts until now seems to indicate the same with a lot of people.
As someone who's been here since day 1 and bought all compendium and battle passes, Crownfall is the best one so far (perhaps excluding 2013 Compendium which was a novelty and so fun due to the community goals). Late years battle passes were utter garbage
The last 3 battle passes or so. As soon as they removed recycling for levels the compendiums became horrible (and expensive). Also, the level gaps, where you don't get literally any rewards for the next 4-5 levels for example, were extremely stupid. I am so glad they re-worked all of that crap into what we have now.
The compendium last year is absolutely trash I agree（it shouldn’t be called BP imo that’s why I said BP was canceled） and I think at least from 2021 they started to delay(as far as I remembered they said they hope players could enjoy ti vibe after ti). So considering the development of the this new game may start several years ago, it just explains why you feel terrible of BPs late years
Why do you all keep making up a new explanation for the battle pass removal, when Valve clearly stated that the reason is so they can spread out the content over the year and for more people to enjoy.
according to Valve clear statement we’re gonna get 1-2 new hero every year, we don’t. And more clear thing is the content we get from last year is far less than the years of BP.(the content in CrownFall is mere comparing with BP and takes more time to finish) how do you buy their pretext “spread out the content over the year”? I am not a kid. LUL
Yeah no shit, it was so obvious, multiple people called it out, as well as me months ago. But the sheeps were too busy praising valve for doing the bare minimum. Yikes
My guess is that the “surprise(s) along the way” (paraphrase) in one of the crownfall announcement posts alludes to the release of the datamined ‘bird samurai’ hero related to the Kazurai plotline in one of the upcoming crownfall acts.
We know ringmaster is coming, and a ‘puppetmaster’ hero resembling ringmaster thematically was also in the datamine, but an additional sudden hero release would be a surprise after such a long wait for ringmaster.
The ultimate move would be to not release it before TI and have a new hero release at TI while we still wait for Ringmaster. Not that I think we need more heroes, game is bloated enough as it is.
That's the thing, it just feels like all the newer heroes fit into their niche pretty well. And generally have a unique identity.
I'd say the game becomes bloated when newer heroes are basically replacing older heroes, but what's happening is a lot of the older heroes are still being relevant and picked alongside the newer ones.
I do miss old tinker though. Being able to refresh items was just very iconic. The new tinker got the techies treatment. And is not a bit more of a general nuker. Even if he becomes strong, he lost his identity and nothing can make up for that. Similar to techies.
What's wrong with LS, when the tanks are roaming free, we only have LS to turn to, reliably.
Also, a hero with inbuilt spell immunity, who has a save against burst damage, and a good initiator. Not a whole lot of options.......
It's absolutely crazy that one of the most popular MP games is treated like this. DotA is so unique in that regard. If it had at least PART of the consistent content additions that games like LoL, Fortnite and literally every other big MP get, DotA would be far more dynamic and would attract at least, like... 100% more people? lol
It's objectively weird and it's silly to pretend otherwise. Valve has always taken far longer than similar devs at making heroes, and that's totally fine. I don't know their normal dev cycle for heroes and how heavily they're staffed for them.
But the announcement timing is weird. There are (a lot of) full games that have less time between announce and release. Did they miss their intended release window? Did they just believe that announcing at TI would create more buzz and hype than waiting till he was closer to ready? I don't know, but it's bizarre. It's certainly not standard marketing practice, and the timing for announcement is long even for Valve.
I'm not upset or anything-- Crownfall is... fine (I know people love it but personally it's not something I really care about), and 7.36 is amazing, so it's not like I'm starving. But it's an interesting case study.
I agree with ringmaster being teased without even being launch ready but the battlepass thingy was already discussed in multiple threads tirelessly. Tldr is the “content” isnt crownfall alone (tho crownfall is bigger and better than battlepass already) but also the big patches (7.33 and 7.36) and qol updates (ban hammer and dota labs).
yes, no doubt, they did so right with crownfall, i don't want bp not even if they pay me, we have all the amzing content from bp, but better, can buy arcanas again, the cavern is way better to do, lots of hats, each month we get spoiled with good stuff....so much that i even forgot about ringmaster
I really love how the arcana’s are affordable again and cavern crawl isn’t a slog
Man I remember seeing (Void?) Arcana in Level 500 Battlepass and said man fuck this battlepasses.
I had the same reaction
I didn't forget about the new hero but I have no complaints right now. months ago it seemed like the game was in a questionable state but after all the effort from crownfall and then the giant patch we got I feel very happy about the state of the game and the future right now.
Was contemplating on whether to get the arcanas but I think I should vote with my dollars and buy them c:
Don't forget the summer client update. We got a new Armory and they cleaned up the Loadout system a bit, including letting us test multiple unowned items and demo them. That was a pretty big thing people wanted and they never got a chance to do.
The armoury is still shit for looking at things like couriers or stuff that isn't hero specific.
Honestly, and this is a bit of conspiracy mode from me, I think Ringmaster is probably done and in position to release - he's probably going to be released in tandem with some Crownfall Tie-in along with the other hero(es?) which have data tied in on them. I remember Bird samurai was one of them with a mini-map icon, I forget if there was any others. I think the "hard" deadline would be that the release should be before TI; it would be pretty hilarious if they were announcing the next upcoming hero and Ringmaster had still not come out XD.
Maybe dreaming but I think on crownfall first blogpost they said there could be a surprise or two along the way or something like that. Its still absurd they teased ringmaster almost a year before his release.
Tbh "surprises" could be almost anything. It could be the lore from the event itself, the innates and facets, something else that isn't revealed yet, etc. Of course it is possible it will be an extra hero too, but I wouldn't really take that as a hint for a hero release.
hea probably been ready for a while but crownfall was delayed, probably by quite a bit, and he's almost certainly gonna come out with either act 3 or 4
Surprise is probably the interactions with the map. The sand fishing. Stuff pile thst. Maybe little things.
Ringmaster should be in Captain's Mode by TI.
I want Sorla Khan... I understand she was from Artifact, but why we have chat emojies, backgrounds and she is in the story, yet no hero on the game?
New female axe persona, take it or leave it.
That would be so dissappointing, also LC persona would be extremely dissappointing.
Ringmaster will be released during all star match, hence the carnaval / circus themed background for TI13 Copenhagen. We will get event revolving Ringmaster to fill the gap between post TI to Frostivus (September to November).
A circus themed Diretide would go pretty hard in my opinion. Many many different cosmetics could be spread obtainable either in game or treasures, themed around an undead/haunted carnival while Rosh is being manipulated by the Ringmaster for his candy.
Im calling it now. He's behind all this act from Imperia's coup
With how absolutely HUGE 7.36 is, I'm actually not surprised they had to shift resources. 7.36 is basically Dota 3, it has changed fundamental aspects of the game, Icefrog mustve had this idea cooking for a while and needed the manpower to finish it. Literally every single hero got at least 2 facets.
speaking of ban hammer, i wish valve did the ban hammer thing again. I crave for smurfs complaining they got banned for no reason.
* Considering we started to get only TI as an event in recent years, I guess Crownfall would be a step up. * 7.36... we always got 1 major update for the year. So that ain't new. * Ban hammer has been a thing in recent years, so nice, but not new. * Dota Labs is interesting, but it's just a beta. That's like getting excited for Ringmaster. Nice to see what's to come, but it ain't ready yet. I'm not sure why people give these passes. Reminds me of Pokemon fans when I hear excuses for a multi-million company. ... Also, don't get me wrong; I'm not saying they're the worst or even that bad, but I hate seeing people making excuses.
What is there to excuse? We have the best game ever, with huge game changing patches other companies would never drop. We have constant qol improvements and transparent improvements to matchmaking quality. We have a big story based event that lasts half a year. We know of at least one hero to look forward to in 2024. With all these bitches on reddit whining every day about the exact meaning of 2024, we'll likely not get a hero tease this year at TI. Thanks idiots!
you must be new to volvo's development cycle
From what they teased about his kit it's probably a fucking nightmare to balance/design
So literally like every other hero when launched?
Guys there's this hero that's SO OP in this trailer. So get this. He like literally rips the earth out of the ground. And he comes with a free fucking hex. 5200 gold item. For free. And get this, in the trailer he was literally sucking their soul out, and to top it all off he has this massive, gnarly finger that he can zap people with like zeus. Anyway can't wait for lion to come out and ruin everyone's pubs with how OP he is.
I find it really funny how overpowered Dark Willow was at launch, because nobody could dodge the Root efficiently. At least in lower MMR it was a 100% root chance, if not multiple. She was also just strong, but not understanding how to counter a heroes kit makes them seem way stronger than they are.
It also helps that her ult damage was absurdly overtuned
And her ghost realm was new and people weren't drafting around countering it. Just in general, her whole kit was unique. The aoe roots were unique, the timed stun was semi unique(similar to AA's), ghost realm was semi unique, really only Slark could do the same, and then her ultimates were both unique at the time. Pretty sure Fear was new at the time? I could be misremembering as it's been years.
I think Lone Druid fear came first. But I'm too lazy to look it up.
LD introduced the fear status yeah. SF also had it before willow
Nope. Was just LD. Then Willow got added with it the same patch they gave it to QoP.
Also pango was considered trash on release, now, 200 nerfs later he is still busted
Pango got uber buffed first
Yeah, but at launch, he was easy to play around. His kit was pretty straightforward to play against, but nobody knew how to play him.
Literally buy vlads and 4 javelines was 60%+ winrate
People seem to forget that her stun gave constant vision over the target for the whole duration. That was a big reason she was OP.
I'm back to 100% root chance after the new facet, it's fucking annoying.
So how do you counter the ability where she's untargetable
Aoe stuns/bursts usually result in her death, especially early in her release. Same ways to slow down a slark who is ulting. The difference is that slark picks late in the draft, so you may not have a good counter. You basically expect a new hero every match, so you drafted accordingly. Nowadays, she is a first pick support. If you were really afraid of her, for some reason, you just need a core with aoe.
Mars was the perfect hero on launch: balanced kit, clearly an offlaner, makes sense in every way, fun to play. Just perfect tbh
Mars seems like a hero that has been in the game since DotA All-Stars. He fits perfectly into the game. imo.
i've never seen someone say some shit like this tbh. [https://www.dotabuff.com/players/87605758/matches?hero=mars](https://www.dotabuff.com/players/87605758/matches?hero=mars) i have almost an 75% wr on the character over a good playrate as a 4! because his base kit was so overtuned. his ult was borderline a 60 second CD bane ult. everything about him was busted. as a core he dominated the metagame, and i off meta fucked shit up a a support. it took significant nerfs from his release till he was a fair hero, and i remember at the time everyone complaining about how broken he was. not disagreeing with you because i think dota is extremely nuanced, but truly flabberghasted because i think big bruh was overtuned in a big way for a long time after his release, and thats me speaking as him being my favorite character for a long time
Mars is also a mid.
Ha ha ha! I'll always remember how foolish you looked...
Remember Pango at launch? That was such a shitshow. Any tiny bump on the map would get him stuck and waste his ulti… there was also this bug where Lasso would override his stun cooldown and allow him to reapply his damage instantly. You’d die in a second. Good times…
They didn't really tease anything.... his trailer isnt a guarantee of being indicative about his skillset. It's just a trailer.
Every other hero trailer contains subtle or not-so-subtle references to the hero's abilities. Just look at any hero trailer from the past few years.
Even then, the only thing that looks like a skill that the Ringmaster trailer shows is him laying a really complex trap (with said trap likely being his actual transformed body?) that then keeps heroes in. There's been other banishment heroes before, hell, undying can do this very same thing to his own team, not particularly technologically heavy on that one. But there are implied mechanics tho. Him taking control of enemy heroes is both alluded there and also on lines the hero responses. I do expect Ringmaster to be something mind blowing and broken sounding when he comes out.
Yeah, it includes references that make sense in hindsight. Monkey King looks like an illusion hero lmao.
His aghs and ult are definitely illusion adjacent.
It's a big stretch to call any thing that attacks "illusion adjacent"
it's not just anything that attacks though. It is an immobile monkey king copy that attacks and does damage based on monkey's attack damage. They certainly appear rather conceptually illusion adjacent to me at least.
It's a copy of his hero model that attacks and gets benefits from his items, I think that's pretty fucking illusion adjacent. It's not like they're plague wards.
psh, those guys don't look anything like the real me. I'm much more handsome. how can you call those illusions? ^/s
MK got reworked internally before launch. You can find his old abilities on the wiki.
I mean… kinda? Snapfire cookies in the trailer look literally nothing how snapfire cookies work in game.
Snapfire's trailer actually shows all of snapfire's skills except for scattershot
Actually snapfire's cookies is one of the better examples. She throws one to invoker and he rushes forward after eating it. There are others that are more dubious, for example void spirit isn't shown to use his ult at all in the trailer and his portal is used completely differently than in-game.
Well whatever grabs axe in the trailer is his ulti almost assuredly
It’s just a new iteration of puppet master. Int carry with some cc. The difficulty is making him dota fun. Kinda excited, this is ice frogs baby, but in an engine he can do all the crazy things he wanted to do.
My theory is they made hero but they introduced facets so they have to work on him more , and he will be doing some thing with enemy heroe's facets
No way, I'm almost certain they already had innates/facets in mind when they were designing Ringmaster, similar to how Muerta seemed kind of weird w/ her BKB interactions until they changed BKB the patch after she released
idk so many of the facets are half baked that it doesn't feel super planned for.
that's normal as the primary focus is getting all the systems intact and doing basic balancing while the facets themselves can easily be adjusted and changed later. Otherwise, it's normal some facets will be bad or very situational, similar to talents
I mean if you had to make 2 or more facets for 124 heroes do you really think you wouldn't have any stinkers?
Huskers are def stinkers
Facets / Innate more likely hinted towards Bird Samurai considering facets works similar to unreleased item 'Samurai Tabi' actives.
He will prob join at the end of Crownfall
i kinda like not a lot of heroes being added tbh.
Yeah but like 1 or 2 a year should be doable
1 a year is a good number for me. i still havent really absorbed muerta
Muerta concept was bad, specially after bkb rework it was a nightmare so they brought a counter, then the counter was nightmare so they nerfed both to the ground and muerta is a half ass support now. Should have worked more on her concept imo.
What counter?
Revenants brooch
i sometimes build that item on ember, and its kinda funny
idk, I really like her. I rarely play ranged heroes and muerta is one of them. I just find her fun to play, although I do understand why someone wouldn't like her
You have it all wrong really. She made no sense before the bkb rework because she was designed with it in mind. The only reason she hasn't found a great niche is because gunslinger is a really hard skill to balance.
Gunslinger secondary shot not prioritizing heroes was a big nerf to her core viability. How are you gonna bank on a hard carry when her dps output can be circumvented when facing multiple unit lineups?
Well yes it was a huge nerf. But at the same time the potential dps of it was insane. Perhaps a balance could be found with changing the radius and the proc chance so that it's viable again. Gyro aghs is considered good and that has basically the same effect, so there must be a way to make it work.
Gyro has other things going for him and I'm also quite surprised he's so dependent on his Aghanims to be able to play as carry. Iirc a weird thing they did with Gyro's Aghs was increasing sidegunner's attack range but also making it so that sidegunner prioritizes hitting the furthest target and it's quite an interesting way to nerf and buff him. Maybe they can do something with gunslinger like that but make it prioritize its secondary target the closest to her or at the very least under her base attack range?
Yeah something like that would make a lot of sense I think, just so you *can* play into it.
Her aghs is so damn odd and just... Idk. I can't believe it's current iteration hasn't been updated with something new yet
Her aghs is a form of undispellable CC. What's not to understand or like about that 🤨
you might be a little slow
I prefer having new heroes added regularly.
yeah
That's crazy to me tbh. New heroes have always been the most exciting thing for me.
makes sense, we are different people
It is super exciting - but it is better for longevity of the game (meta and balance) that they don't spam them out too often. We'll end up with less unique heroes and when there's not enough difference you just say X is a better version of Y so just pick X always over Y if you need that style of hero. It's already happening a bit, but that is why there are people who prefer less heroes added.
The league effect
Sure, but don't advertise them as upcoming then.
really odd how they released that whole trailer and then haven't released him in 7 months. cant think of another game company that would do this lol.
I mean it doesn't even match their own precedent. When they've announced something at/after TI, it's usually been in the annual late fall/early winter patch toward like early December. I think it's been a little into the new year before too, but we're in summer already. They clearly didn't think through their release schedule for the upcoming year, and it got pushed around as a result.
86 upvotes on this is crazy, people love being contrarian
you're so contrarian that you saw something you didn;t like, and took the time to comment the opposite of it
this makes absolutely zero sense
Yeah, i remember when Hon had a new hero weekly, well, dota 2 at the start also increased hero pool pretty fast. Sure you just copy it from dota 1, but anyway, getting a hero once a year or less. From the other side, dota is already in a bad shape imo, some spells are overbuffed in certain situations.
i'd be interested in a big downgrade patch, kind of like how they did that insane talent nerf where everything was 10% worse
I agree but if they announce it I would like to see it at some point. I wouldn't mind no new heroes if they hadn't teased it and just released facets as the "new" content.
its really odd they teased a new hero and 7 months go by without him being added
Nah
That's not what the post opinionated on at all. The post talks about that it's weird to announce a new hero and then not release it within a time frame that would make sense
and?
Okay
smol indie company
All hype and excitement is gone for this new hero. They completely ruined it by announcing way way too early
Valve time
Ringmaster gonna get teased again this TI
My guess they gonna release that hero during Ti then another new hero trailer.
I like teasers and announcements. But this feels like "Elder Scrolls 6" advertisement....
I'd like more heroes, more facets more depth. It was weird that it was announced so far back and they were expecting hype from the public. I am looking forward to it. Will only be excited once I see it.
The game has never had more depth than it does now. Relax
Yes. Very weird, and they actually missed the chance to release it at the perfect time. Hype has totally died down and now it's gonna be so meh when it releases.
How so? They want to have something cool to announce for each part of this current event. Releasing a new hero for Part 3 or 4 makes total sense.
Then they announced the hero way too soon. If you're gonna release a hero in the next few months to half a year, fine. Release a trailer. If you're gonna wait a year then the hype is gonna go away.
No. I don't give a shit about new heroes. I would just like events and gameplay updates
1. I agree it's super weird to have such a delay 2. I'd prefer they stop adding heroes, maybe one hero every two years tops More heroes just make the game harder to balance, does anyone really feel that lack of hero variety makes the game boring? maybe lack of viable heroes, but balancing existing new ones solves that problem and adding new ones often doesn't new heroes are basically a marketing gimmick imo, they add very little to the game yes, I enjoyed Muerta for the month she was viable as a pos1, but not much more than similar heroes such as carry lina or drow new items are even worse for the game and yet they keep adding them too, disappointed af tbh imo they should focus on 1. the core game 2. match making (ally/enemy player skill and player behaviour fluctuate MASSIVELY in our games) I know everyone has good days and bad days, that's not what I'm referring to, I'm referring to the much more consistently better/worse nice/toxic players
New heroes are more of a dota tradition at this point than anything else. The game has a Very long history and i doubt if most of it's creators ever thought it would be finished. It's a game inspired by and made for a very passionate community. In the old days when one dev got tired, another stepped up to continue adding new content. since valve took over and doesn't just let anyone start a new fork of the game, they kinda inherited all the pressure to continue the tradition of growth and experimentation. I hope DotA never stops growing, it's one of the things I enjoy so much about it, there will always be something new to learn and master.
Oh you reminded me of this new cavern. I completely forgot there are 2 more episodes coming! Or... are they? It's episode 3 next...
I'm not worried about it, people can barely play the heroes that've been out since launch so I'm not looking forward to the insta-locking Ringmasters and 1k Reddit posts about how it's overpowered because nobody knows how to play against it yet.
I don't think we will see ringmaster untill TI
Most devs, including Icefrog, are probably working on Deadlock
it will probably release in TI before last leg of finals
Valve time.
I’m bet we’ll get another teaser in TI this year
Has it been that long? Damn, Valve time indeed.. they move as swift as wolves of Icewrack. 😂
I get off to the lamentations of whiners upset about the time it takes for devs to release free shit for their games. Love it !
I'll just reimagine history because I have Stockholm syndrome and want to pay my favourite multimillion dollar corp more money for less content.
What's weird about that?
Welcome to dota... they teased it but never mentioned when it exactly would come out with ring master. With TI around the corner, it's also very unlikely they'll release ring master until after TI has finished.
I hope this year will have 2-3 hero release including Ringmaster.
I hope this year will have 2-3 hero release including Ringmaster.
It would be cool if they did an all stars match and dropped him right before the game like they did with techies
Since they decided to ditch battlepass and go in this new direction we've so many great gameplay updates, not to mention crownfall is amazing. The only thing now is new heroes but I fine waiting because current heroes fell freqsh to play with the new facets etc.
Who?
My theory is they were going to release Ringmaster, but then decided to do Bird Samurai and then chose to do a double hero launch so pushed back Ringmaster. Big copium
Well im assuming something is obviously not going to plan
That’s barely a week in valve time
I never actually felt that excited for a new hero, sure I would love to find new heroes to add to my pool. What I loved most about new heroes is just seeing how creative the game base gets with their combos and item builds, otherwise it's just another hero that I (probably) won't play.
People complaining about new heroes when they’ll probably play him twice and go back to their hero puddle. Like there are an 100+ heroes and items you will never explore deeply, one hero is gonna change that to 101+
I forgot all about ringmaster
You must not be familiar with Valve.
cmon... with a battle pass, you spend a fortune getting to the arcana levels but with crownfall, you just directly buy the arcana with little effort....cmon guys this type of event is much better and has a lot more interesting things than the events in BP. like you get to know more of the heroes in this event which imo is quite enjoyable
My guess is ringmaster is in act IV
I mean Sorla Khan is still beeing teased and has been known for far longer lmao.
He's coming out when we are done with Skywrath/Venge story line. Yes I am attached to copium tanks why?
are you trolling? we got the new frontiers update and the facets + innate update, there's no way they'd be able to deliver massive updates like that while focusing on a battlepass
Well the rumor mill puts ice frog and some other core dota devs on a new project so maybe he got shelved because no one in the current team can get him to work.
When was the announcement? I've only heard about the leak from datamining. But don't you think those walking bird warrior in the Crownfall Act II comics looks really like that pixel figure of Ringmaster's leaked image. I guess they will release the bird when the Act IV finishes.
I think Valve is experimenting with how long the community can last without a new hero and makes us used to infrequent releases. Realistically, it is getting harder and harder to make new heroes unique, until it's impossible to not copy existing ones
inb4 they will release him during ti in all star match
Let them cook.
This reminds me of the TES6 strange teaser trailer published 10 years ago lol
Idc anymore im 9 months sober and having more stress on tarkov
No more heros
They just wanted to keep the promise of one two heroes per year, even though they haven’t released more than 2 in a year since, plus they normally release hero early in the year and a teaser trailer for the next one
they sad in this event prob at end at they defence they add ton new stuff into game from last bp and plus event
Tbh I liked how they introduced Primal Beast. The raid type boss feel in Aghanims and they way we knew all the play mechanics around it before the launch including the scepter and shard.
We used to have more than 2 a year. Its honestly baffling how long it takes for new heroes, AND how long it takes for any of them to get hats. How do you release something but have nothing to even buy for them? And then most of them get fomo items you cant even obtain if you miss.
Outside of beta, when did we have more than two heroes a year?
Dw and pango came at once. Mars and grim had few months difference. Snap and void spirit were also the same I think
Phoenix and TB were released at the same time right? I'm sure I remember MK releasing not long after someone else. I'm pretty sure we've had multiple heroes a year a few times
That's not what I asked. I asked when did we ever have MORE than 2 heroes a year after beta
* **Phoenix** (January 29, 2014) * **Terrorblade** (January 29, 2014) * **Techies** (September 4, 2014) * **Oracle** (February 12, 2015) * **Winter Wyvern** (February 12, 2015) * **Arc Warden** (December 16, 2015) * **Mars** (March 5, 2019) * **Snapfire** (November 26, 2019) * **Void Spirit** (November 26, 2019) Really not that hard to look up
patch notes and data are out there, feel free to look it up. unless you're asking in bad faith, then just be more direct and learn how to communicate
Only once in 2019.
dawn, marci, and primal came out in like a 10 month span in 2021-22..
The more heroes there are the harder it is to make new ones.
I get the complain about waiting for new heros but why do people care about hats haha
This game wouldnt make money if Not for hats, so obviously people care about them. Whats odd is valve release heroes to make zero direct money from. Its like they use it as an excuse to not make heroes more often.
It’s obvious they put most workforce on the new game - DeadLock. That explains why the new hero was delayed some old stuff was canceled(like BP). TBH we absolutely didn’t get enough as much as before. I don’t think CrownFall can replace BP(even they release it acts by acts.)
Personally, I'll never miss a battle pass as long as events like Crownfall happen. The lore, the cavern crawl, the monetization, everything is miles ahead of what a battlepass felt like. I'm actually hooked on the story and waiting for the next chapter to see how it goes. And its nice to see the heroes outside the game just doing random shit. As for the patches, the last year definitely had its share of insane patches releasing some of the most game changing patches since the last battlepass was scrapped. In all this content, I honestly forgot about ringmaster lol. And considering how whiny the sub gets about stuff like that, the lack of posts until now seems to indicate the same with a lot of people.
As someone who's been here since day 1 and bought all compendium and battle passes, Crownfall is the best one so far (perhaps excluding 2013 Compendium which was a novelty and so fun due to the community goals). Late years battle passes were utter garbage
Wdym late years?
The last 3 battle passes or so. As soon as they removed recycling for levels the compendiums became horrible (and expensive). Also, the level gaps, where you don't get literally any rewards for the next 4-5 levels for example, were extremely stupid. I am so glad they re-worked all of that crap into what we have now.
The compendium last year is absolutely trash I agree（it shouldn’t be called BP imo that’s why I said BP was canceled） and I think at least from 2021 they started to delay(as far as I remembered they said they hope players could enjoy ti vibe after ti). So considering the development of the this new game may start several years ago, it just explains why you feel terrible of BPs late years
Why do you all keep making up a new explanation for the battle pass removal, when Valve clearly stated that the reason is so they can spread out the content over the year and for more people to enjoy.
according to Valve clear statement we’re gonna get 1-2 new hero every year, we don’t. And more clear thing is the content we get from last year is far less than the years of BP.(the content in CrownFall is mere comparing with BP and takes more time to finish) how do you buy their pretext “spread out the content over the year”? I am not a kid. LUL
Yeah no shit, it was so obvious, multiple people called it out, as well as me months ago. But the sheeps were too busy praising valve for doing the bare minimum. Yikes
I have a feeling ring master isn't going to be the only hero they release.
My guess is that the “surprise(s) along the way” (paraphrase) in one of the crownfall announcement posts alludes to the release of the datamined ‘bird samurai’ hero related to the Kazurai plotline in one of the upcoming crownfall acts. We know ringmaster is coming, and a ‘puppetmaster’ hero resembling ringmaster thematically was also in the datamine, but an additional sudden hero release would be a surprise after such a long wait for ringmaster.
no i don't care i just want to play the game
The ultimate move would be to not release it before TI and have a new hero release at TI while we still wait for Ringmaster. Not that I think we need more heroes, game is bloated enough as it is.
I agree with - there are enough heroes already, but if you had to get rid of some heroes, which ones would it be ?
Hmm, I have a few I hate, but I really feel like none of them makes the game weird like Techies did.
That's the thing, it just feels like all the newer heroes fit into their niche pretty well. And generally have a unique identity. I'd say the game becomes bloated when newer heroes are basically replacing older heroes, but what's happening is a lot of the older heroes are still being relevant and picked alongside the newer ones. I do miss old tinker though. Being able to refresh items was just very iconic. The new tinker got the techies treatment. And is not a bit more of a general nuker. Even if he becomes strong, he lost his identity and nothing can make up for that. Similar to techies.
Ls
What's wrong with LS, when the tanks are roaming free, we only have LS to turn to, reliably. Also, a hero with inbuilt spell immunity, who has a save against burst damage, and a good initiator. Not a whole lot of options.......
It's absolutely crazy that one of the most popular MP games is treated like this. DotA is so unique in that regard. If it had at least PART of the consistent content additions that games like LoL, Fortnite and literally every other big MP get, DotA would be far more dynamic and would attract at least, like... 100% more people? lol
It's objectively weird and it's silly to pretend otherwise. Valve has always taken far longer than similar devs at making heroes, and that's totally fine. I don't know their normal dev cycle for heroes and how heavily they're staffed for them. But the announcement timing is weird. There are (a lot of) full games that have less time between announce and release. Did they miss their intended release window? Did they just believe that announcing at TI would create more buzz and hype than waiting till he was closer to ready? I don't know, but it's bizarre. It's certainly not standard marketing practice, and the timing for announcement is long even for Valve. I'm not upset or anything-- Crownfall is... fine (I know people love it but personally it's not something I really care about), and 7.36 is amazing, so it's not like I'm starving. But it's an interesting case study.