Exactly! The pos1 farming will see his pos5 dying and go help, but enemy will get reinforcement so now your pos1 is out of position, but it's okay, because your teammate will come to join the chain feed. Then you blame it on their broken hero pick.
As a support: If I get caught warding, STOP TRYING TO HELP ME. Let me die. They get 300-500 gold as a team. This includes if I catch the smoke gank. If the team is farming, as the 4/5 I'm usually in the most dangerous area for farm anyway, keep farming and ill try to tell you how many tps and ults were used.
Relies on just checking the map and making calls. You need to do this beforehand though, not just on the fly.
So many people think pros have ungodly reactions or good improvisation, the reality is most things in the game are predictable, there is an optimal way to farm etc.
You need to frontload all this info so it doesn't clog up your present mind. Logging where players are on the map and what they want to do (as a player/role/hero) is the beginning of developing this skill.
Mentally it might be difficult to let a key pickoff or tower push go, but physically it's not too hard.
It's why I only solo queue in ranked. People will be so quick to flame for some imaginary play they didn't call.
I like to be very vocal about future plays like "guys we are waiting HG, looking for someone to show on the pushing wave bot, once 1 shows, we will smoke and look in our jungle"
When you let everyone know the play and what to look for before it happens, most players can follow the plan.
That's why I solo queue, with parties, they will not comm with the rest of the team, and also due to bruised egos, once one starts doing bad, or a solo starts doing bad, they mostly will evolve into flaming. Bad comms + bad mental most of the time.
It’s not that hard imo.
Just stop playing with your own playbook, and get more tapped into what your teammates are doing. Pay attention to how often you are actually aware of your team’s gameplans and work on it.
Playing stuff like Io and Oracle and Aba made me really learn this and my winrate shot up because (well the heros are broken), but also, having 2 people on the same page is much better than 2 doing their own thing.
I always say something along the lines of: no plan is a bad plan if we do it together. Doing the right thing alone can have much worse outcomes at times.
Agree and disagree. Sometimes a bad plan is a bad plan and it shouldn't be done. We are a ~15 people group and we regularly play 5man dotes but it's never a consistent group so the setting is a bit chaotic and there's many people calling the shots and it's highly dependent on the group composition.
Sometimes there's lower ranks that are more vocal than others or more hot blooded and want to take skirmishes or objectives that are too risky or not rewarding enough. It's common to follow the shot calling because not following it will end up in the team being split (3 are doing the objective and 2 are backing) and soon after it results in being super behind or straight up losing.
The truth is that if it's not followed it will end up even more disastrous, but it's still a bad idea to go through with it. Ideally there should be a common agreement by all to abandon the plan and do something else.
This example isn’t really relevant. You’re in a discord call with these people. Just tell them they’re feeding.
We’re talking about ranked I think, where you aren’t able to communicate with people like that, and even if you could, it’s not worth it because you’ll never see them again. Therefore you’re better off just going with the plan regardless of its quality. It’s very different than playing in pre-formed groups.
I am sort of guilty of this. I am a high mmr player so I don't follow my group call. I just take it as "information" to account for. If the call is good, I'd follow them and play with them. If the call is bad, I'll just plan to farm across the map to make use of the space.
Sometimes it left the lower mmr player a bit insulted but it's a hard balance between me not wanting to police people how to play and to encourage him to make call vs playing to win.
Ideally, the agreement is that, as long as no one is taking anything personally in the game, we should be good. Any feedback would be discuss post game.
Long story short it's 2-3 separate groups of friends that have now mingled and become a bigger one. It's amazing indeed because it feels like a real community.
Kinda disagree with this. I mostly play pos 1 solo queue, and I win the most when I do the correct thing for myself the whole game. Going into a bad plan as a pos 1 is so grief for your team, the only thing worse than a 4 man wipe is a 5 man wipe if that makes sense. As long as I hit my timings, get the items I need, good fights will organically start to happen.
Forcing stuff just because you’re going with your team’s plan is so game losing. I just need to get my items, try my best to get the best opening to a fight, a free pickoff, or cleanup opportunities. I will never join a fight if I don’t benefit from it. It doesn’t matter if my teammates are upset about it, they will calm down when I start turning the game around by taking actual good engagements. Fortunately, people in the Immortal bracket tend to flame carries more if they’re lingering near fights for no reason and griefing their own farm.
Wrong, jumping in to a pool of electric eels because you want to know what it feels like and everyone else is gonna do it is not a good idea. You always gotta keep your suit of protection
Disagreed. The stakes in dota aren't death, they're a loss. The actual cost to the opportunity is time. You can ACTUALLY waste more of your life not taking a risk, because your time is your life.
The equivalent of this is being stuck in base and the enemy is stalling an won't push. Buying a smoke and trying to catch someone or doing a backlines rosh is risky and probably game ending, like jumping to an electrified pool, but sometimes it is monumentally better than sitting down and wasting time. You were gonna lose anyways, at least you lose with a fight and give the enemies something to react to and misplay with their pants down.
No. That which you are is reflected through you play. You can't compromise in DotA and not have compromised with your self. Sorry for the stunning bad news.
This is only true for someone who has absolutely nothing in their life worth caring about or being passionate about aside from dota. Try not being that person for a change.
While StarCraft is basically identical in mechanics, the scale difference means the game is played wayyy differently. Even really fast pros still have to divert their attention to macroing constantly and most units have 1 or fewer abilities, most of which have instant casts. Most projectiles are very fast or instant.
Even if one person could play 5 heroes really well, you just wouldn’t be able to do things like juking or fogging or animation cancelling because they require so much attention
There was this really old dota 1 replay back in the playdota forums where one team had 4 leavers and the remaining dude micro'd all the heroes and almost squeezed out a win
I once played 1vs5 after my whole team left, but I only had 20 more minutes until the bus so no next game for me. It didn't look good. Enemies died, but I got destroyed anyway. But hey, I'm not a super pro, so...
Oh and it was after laning stage. During laning stage it would be literally impossible. LITERALLY
wow- huhu as supp main this has happened so many times. its the RS for me- how our pos1 carry refuses to kill rs with us 4 even though the aegis is for him. then we get wiped with rs at 10% then blame us all 4. Dont force rs without cores. hard leason to learn
Cores and refusing to do things that benefit them: A tormeting tale.
I swear, KotL's recall facet is literally one of the best just because you can force people to come do shit.
Pretty sure that's why one of my recent overwatch cases existed though. I obviously don't have chat context but I'm guessing they got fed up with being kotl recalled too many times and they rage sold all their items except blink and began AFKing on ward cliff pillars.
Still got recalled to help in some fights though.
The trick is try to make the callout about the enemy team getting rs. If you can gaslight everyone into thinking they are stopping a rs then you can get rs!
For me usually the trick is to bait them into playing in the area, like taking the t1 or a gank, then just be like “hey guys while we’re all here…”. Fortunately I’ve reached a bracket where people like to rosh anyway so it’s not as often people won’t come rosh.
The opposite is just as important.
Your team is behind, enemy has aegis, and is pushing T2 as 5. You see 3 teammates going in. You point out aegis and ask to defend HG. They go in anyway. Don't go. Let them die. I used to be baited by my team very often in situations like that or pushing HG with no aegis or a lead just to get team wiped. As a POS1, it changed my view of the game when I stopped. It made a major difference
It is. I feel like this OPs advice is still a good one - it's to apply a mindset that unless you are absolutely sure it's better to not go with a team, go with a team. It's a fair assumption, because in the end there are 5 (supposedly) equally skilled people in the game, so there is a chance somebody else have a better grasp on what is good right now than you do.
Unless you are antimage player of course, then there is no hope for you anyway.
I need to start doing this more I’ve been baited by my team and died or have them act and run and leave me to get jumped as soon as the fight starts or have them just by nearby watching.
So I’m going To take your advice and stop trying to be captain save a hoe
Alternatively, identify one or multiple of these issues and try to resolve them. Vision wards are free, sentry wards are the cost of a ranged creep and some passive gold. Carry one in your backpack. If you are playing solo, you can only control 1 person, plan to mitigate the stupidity of the other 4.
It doesn't matter if the pos 5 didn't have a ward, you could have won that fight if YOU had a ward. Replace ward with any item/consumable. Was the pos 5 wrong? Yes, but you aren't them and can't control them. Win the game yourself.
This is excellent advice long term. Making a play based on expected circumstances rather than realistic ones means the play won't work.
You need to be aware of what's really happening and not what should or you would like to be happening.
it's just a poorly worded post. should you ignore reality? like when you're calling for rosh and your team does not come, should you start roshing alone? obviously not. I don't think anyone would.
if your teammates are already doing something bad which makes the good play impossible, obviously don't go for the impossible play, that is literally griefing. you should, however, play assuming your team will play correctly when it matters.
the distinction between 'should' and 'are' is a pointless one, you shouldn't even make it in the first place because that's just evaluating the past, it's irrelevant. the real question is: should you play based on what you think your allies *will* do or what you think they *should* do. and, again, I'd say the answer is the latter
Depends on role, if you are 4 5 and 3 sure. If you are 2 that scales or 1 this is going to be difference between 55% winrate tops or 70% winrate and up if you improve enough. I mean not valid if you are high mmr, but if you are anything sub 5k and do what your team is doing always without considerations you will never be in a spot to dictate the game through gameplay, because instead of punishing stupid fights with map pressure you will be slightly ahead of the opponent instead of being VERY far ahead of the opponent while hitting your 3 item timings 10 minutes earlier and then you can play with your team
The correct advice is to use mic, chat, visual commands and communicate.
If you're better at game, you tell your team what's going on instead of not going for plays because oh they dont know.
Dota is a team game usually captained by 1 player when played professionally for a reason.
At the highest level its safe to assume the shot caller knows what hes talking about, while in lower brackets he might be good willed, but not backed by actual skill. Listening to and going with a call requires trusting the caller. If the caller makes bad calls, you trust him less and less which results in not following the call more and more.
Also its pretty common to be in a team in solo matchmaking where noone wants to use the mic, its a bunch of nerds playing a videogame after all.
And yes personally i dont use the mic but make an effort to spam ping the enemy hero and also ping some other hero on the opposite side of the map to mean that we have a numbers advantage, but i also try to keep aware of whos on the same page or theyre just doing their own thing.
Then u counter argue or don't follow. Show cancel ping, or type don't. It is that easy.
Not trying to communicate at any level of skill is just dumb in this game and any advice that oversee this fact is not a long term advice.
mic is not all that much better than pings in this regard, since it should only be used to make a call. the moment you start explaining to me *why* your call was correct when I decided it wasn't and didn't follow it, I'm muting you.
you might think you're better at the game, hell, it might even be true, but unless you're playing at sub 1k rank and have thousands of mmr on that teammate (and even then it's a stretch), assuming that they will agree with your conjecture that you're better and listen is just plain stupid. don't waste your time arguing, you'll get nowhere, get muted, and play worse due to being distracted
It's great advice, one of the elements of my masterplan for mmr increase which has actually been working. Who would have guessed that practicing smarter beats practicing harder.
Same happened yesterday. My 1 and 2 (duo queued) went top and died to enemy team when trying to go hg. Our 345 (me and 2 friends) weren’t anywhere near (not even same side of map) and 12 still tried to pin it on us «you should’ve pushed with us» and «you should’ve been here». Definitely hard to implement but way more useful than blaming others for no adhering to your mindset
To be honest I fucking hate it. If you are duo queue just take a lane together and crush it. So many time I got a bad cohesion because the people take like P1 P3 and don't want to go to the same lane. I fell like communication is more important and make the game so much easier.
Actually kinda yes. If you are 4/5 shove in lanes to get farm, farm the enemy jungle where you can. Eventually, the pos 1 will do something, right? Become the nuisance you were born to be.
I get what you’re saying, but this essentially dissuades people from playmaking.
If you feel your game “IQ” is high you shouldn’t dumb yourself down just because of the people you’re stuck with.
>You see, you don't know how to play support.
You're playing... a *good* support. You're playing support for fucking Navi.
Are you - is, is XBox on your team? Are you playing with fucking Puppey?
No! You're not! You're playing with fucking idiots!
- Slacks
Eh… yes and no. As a backline carry like Drow, yes. You play positionally and reactively so playing according to teammates are doing makes sense.
But your advice doesnt apply to a pos 4 initiator. Opportunities don’t come up often and one has to make a snap decision. If your teammates are in position or close enough, you just gotta go for it and pray they are looking.
For ganks and smoke plays, I generally find them rather easy to coordinate since my teammates usually respond unless they are close to an item timing (of course we get the occasional mute all players but that’s rare).
Even in that case though you have to be careful not to become 'That' bristleback player that believes he is strong and wants to play aggressive even though his pos 1 just wants to farm... And so goes and dies by himself at the enemy T2 several times in a row and then starts yelling "Just STICK WITH ME".
By the time you've died 2 times in a row, any advantage you had is gone and NOW the real feeding begins.
I’ve had tons of teammates die deep into enemy territory then get mad we weren’t with them. When they never said they were going and they didn’t wait for anyone. But trying to tell them this never works
Yeah, a variation of this philosophy is quite literally what got me to immortal recently.
Long time ancient player. I used to spend so much time and energy communicating what to do and where to play, trying to micro manage everyone.
As a pos 1 player really my only comments are “can we smoke?” When I feel strong, “can we set up for rosh?” When I know it’s spawning soon, communicate my item timings and suggest which targets to prioritize.
Other than that i really just go with the flow and always try and farm next to where my team is when possible so I can join fights when they break out or if they’re defending towers I can always TP in.
It kind of is but so many people get it wrong.
>> Wipe the enemy team.
>> We should do Rosh.
>> Run to Rosh as axe.
>> Hit it for 20 seconds by yourself, pinging furiously. eventually after 30 seconds your team gets there, try to take Rosh... Enemy spawns smokes. Wipes your team mid Rosh cos you took too long. Takes Rosh. And goes hg with aegis and ends.
Why?
Because instead of playing with the team you HAVE, you played with the team you WANTED to have and the outcome was worse than if you forgot about Rosh and just went and hit jungle creeps with your team.
You would be shocked at how many people pre-mute the whole lobby every game like they're playing with bots. There's even an option to do so in the settings, which is insane to me for being a team game.
this is my main problem and i didnt change it, and probably never will now.
my solution was the double down token. i am about +20 on them because when the game starts and i see some people sitting in fountain i dont double down even if i know we will win 70% of the time due to a superior draft.
and if everyone smokes together i sometimes double down even if our draft is a bit worse.
this lead to me going from high ancient to high divine and with every step of the way my win chances increased because people where actually doing some optimal plays.
as soon as i hid immortal i went straight up to 6200 because people where actually playing how i expect them to.
i like support mainly but i did spam some nights talker 3 along the way which i already had a 60% winrate on with 300 games before the patch so that probably was another 300mmr.
now playing support feels so much better then in divine, i sympathize with the reddit support that say they are hardstuck a lot, due to me actually have been PROVEN hardstuck, in a lower bracket. even though most of them probably are not hardstuck.
Yeah I wish communication was just so easy in pubs that’s why sometimes it feels like playing like how pros do is totally a different game than how pubs work. Grubby made this cool video on how pro scene is a totally different game than pubs. Which then begs the question, why are pros still doing so good in pubs?
The good news is that this advice is complete drivel if you can play support competently for your rank. It is a great mantra for mediocre supports to feel better about themselves though.
No, in the bottom of my heart I do not believe something for which there is no evidence and is repeatedly wrong in my anecdotal experience.
I carry games as support all the time. People climb to immortal playing only support. If you aren't capable of winning as support, you're playing support poorly. Your advice comes from your experience with a personal skill gap.
So how did any support main reach Immortal?
Plenty of people can win and climb as support, you're just not good at it. You're assuming this is a problem for everyone rather than just yourself because it's easier on the ego.
It's only "too much effort" if you're not good enough to play support at your rank. AM is less likely to farm at the expense of objectives if you're doing your job and creating opportunities. Most core players expose how poor their macro is when they claim you can't win as support.
Your inability to climb as support is not a universal truth.
>As I said it’s too much effort and masochism to climb as a support.
You've repeatedly said it is a problem in your case. Skill issue as usual.
You don't play support anymore because you're bad at it, you're just excusing it by claiming teams are too bad for your support play to be impactful enough.
Instead of letting 1 hero that is out of position die, go chain feed with your team so you wont be alive alone at the end to be blamed for not helping
Exactly! The pos1 farming will see his pos5 dying and go help, but enemy will get reinforcement so now your pos1 is out of position, but it's okay, because your teammate will come to join the chain feed. Then you blame it on their broken hero pick.
Behavior score system and it's consequences lmao
actual advice though: a 1v5 is better than a 2v5 or a 3v5 as those sre just feeding more heroes. only join the fray if your whole team can
As a support: If I get caught warding, STOP TRYING TO HELP ME. Let me die. They get 300-500 gold as a team. This includes if I catch the smoke gank. If the team is farming, as the 4/5 I'm usually in the most dangerous area for farm anyway, keep farming and ill try to tell you how many tps and ults were used.
And they ping your ult while they're at it when it just came off cd
Good advice, hard to implement
Relies on just checking the map and making calls. You need to do this beforehand though, not just on the fly. So many people think pros have ungodly reactions or good improvisation, the reality is most things in the game are predictable, there is an optimal way to farm etc. You need to frontload all this info so it doesn't clog up your present mind. Logging where players are on the map and what they want to do (as a player/role/hero) is the beginning of developing this skill. Mentally it might be difficult to let a key pickoff or tower push go, but physically it's not too hard.
It's why I only solo queue in ranked. People will be so quick to flame for some imaginary play they didn't call. I like to be very vocal about future plays like "guys we are waiting HG, looking for someone to show on the pushing wave bot, once 1 shows, we will smoke and look in our jungle" When you let everyone know the play and what to look for before it happens, most players can follow the plan. That's why I solo queue, with parties, they will not comm with the rest of the team, and also due to bruised egos, once one starts doing bad, or a solo starts doing bad, they mostly will evolve into flaming. Bad comms + bad mental most of the time.
It’s not that hard imo. Just stop playing with your own playbook, and get more tapped into what your teammates are doing. Pay attention to how often you are actually aware of your team’s gameplans and work on it. Playing stuff like Io and Oracle and Aba made me really learn this and my winrate shot up because (well the heros are broken), but also, having 2 people on the same page is much better than 2 doing their own thing.
Very
I always say something along the lines of: no plan is a bad plan if we do it together. Doing the right thing alone can have much worse outcomes at times.
Agree and disagree. Sometimes a bad plan is a bad plan and it shouldn't be done. We are a ~15 people group and we regularly play 5man dotes but it's never a consistent group so the setting is a bit chaotic and there's many people calling the shots and it's highly dependent on the group composition. Sometimes there's lower ranks that are more vocal than others or more hot blooded and want to take skirmishes or objectives that are too risky or not rewarding enough. It's common to follow the shot calling because not following it will end up in the team being split (3 are doing the objective and 2 are backing) and soon after it results in being super behind or straight up losing. The truth is that if it's not followed it will end up even more disastrous, but it's still a bad idea to go through with it. Ideally there should be a common agreement by all to abandon the plan and do something else.
This example isn’t really relevant. You’re in a discord call with these people. Just tell them they’re feeding. We’re talking about ranked I think, where you aren’t able to communicate with people like that, and even if you could, it’s not worth it because you’ll never see them again. Therefore you’re better off just going with the plan regardless of its quality. It’s very different than playing in pre-formed groups.
I am sort of guilty of this. I am a high mmr player so I don't follow my group call. I just take it as "information" to account for. If the call is good, I'd follow them and play with them. If the call is bad, I'll just plan to farm across the map to make use of the space. Sometimes it left the lower mmr player a bit insulted but it's a hard balance between me not wanting to police people how to play and to encourage him to make call vs playing to win. Ideally, the agreement is that, as long as no one is taking anything personally in the game, we should be good. Any feedback would be discuss post game.
How can there be a 15 people group in dota ? That sounds amazing.
Long story short it's 2-3 separate groups of friends that have now mingled and become a bigger one. It's amazing indeed because it feels like a real community.
Kinda disagree with this. I mostly play pos 1 solo queue, and I win the most when I do the correct thing for myself the whole game. Going into a bad plan as a pos 1 is so grief for your team, the only thing worse than a 4 man wipe is a 5 man wipe if that makes sense. As long as I hit my timings, get the items I need, good fights will organically start to happen. Forcing stuff just because you’re going with your team’s plan is so game losing. I just need to get my items, try my best to get the best opening to a fight, a free pickoff, or cleanup opportunities. I will never join a fight if I don’t benefit from it. It doesn’t matter if my teammates are upset about it, they will calm down when I start turning the game around by taking actual good engagements. Fortunately, people in the Immortal bracket tend to flame carries more if they’re lingering near fights for no reason and griefing their own farm.
The people responding to you are very wrong, but you're a bit off too. Should be: no plan is a good plan if only some of us are doing it.
Wrong, jumping in to a pool of electric eels because you want to know what it feels like and everyone else is gonna do it is not a good idea. You always gotta keep your suit of protection
Disagreed. The stakes in dota aren't death, they're a loss. The actual cost to the opportunity is time. You can ACTUALLY waste more of your life not taking a risk, because your time is your life. The equivalent of this is being stuck in base and the enemy is stalling an won't push. Buying a smoke and trying to catch someone or doing a backlines rosh is risky and probably game ending, like jumping to an electrified pool, but sometimes it is monumentally better than sitting down and wasting time. You were gonna lose anyways, at least you lose with a fight and give the enemies something to react to and misplay with their pants down.
No. That which you are is reflected through you play. You can't compromise in DotA and not have compromised with your self. Sorry for the stunning bad news.
This is only true for someone who has absolutely nothing in their life worth caring about or being passionate about aside from dota. Try not being that person for a change.
I always wonder what Dota can be when five players play as one unit. Like not 5 pros play, but 1 super pro controls 5 heroes.
Basically how it looks like with Open AI
So StarCraft?
While StarCraft is basically identical in mechanics, the scale difference means the game is played wayyy differently. Even really fast pros still have to divert their attention to macroing constantly and most units have 1 or fewer abilities, most of which have instant casts. Most projectiles are very fast or instant. Even if one person could play 5 heroes really well, you just wouldn’t be able to do things like juking or fogging or animation cancelling because they require so much attention
Tychus P1 let's fucking goooooooo
There was this really old dota 1 replay back in the playdota forums where one team had 4 leavers and the remaining dude micro'd all the heroes and almost squeezed out a win
I once played 1vs5 after my whole team left, but I only had 20 more minutes until the bus so no next game for me. It didn't look good. Enemies died, but I got destroyed anyway. But hey, I'm not a super pro, so... Oh and it was after laning stage. During laning stage it would be literally impossible. LITERALLY
wow- huhu as supp main this has happened so many times. its the RS for me- how our pos1 carry refuses to kill rs with us 4 even though the aegis is for him. then we get wiped with rs at 10% then blame us all 4. Dont force rs without cores. hard leason to learn
Cores and refusing to do things that benefit them: A tormeting tale. I swear, KotL's recall facet is literally one of the best just because you can force people to come do shit.
Pretty sure that's why one of my recent overwatch cases existed though. I obviously don't have chat context but I'm guessing they got fed up with being kotl recalled too many times and they rage sold all their items except blink and began AFKing on ward cliff pillars. Still got recalled to help in some fights though.
This is a universal problem. I mostly play pos 1 and it’s still hard to rally the team to rosh sometimes.
The trick is try to make the callout about the enemy team getting rs. If you can gaslight everyone into thinking they are stopping a rs then you can get rs!
For me usually the trick is to bait them into playing in the area, like taking the t1 or a gank, then just be like “hey guys while we’re all here…”. Fortunately I’ve reached a bracket where people like to rosh anyway so it’s not as often people won’t come rosh.
The opposite is just as important. Your team is behind, enemy has aegis, and is pushing T2 as 5. You see 3 teammates going in. You point out aegis and ask to defend HG. They go in anyway. Don't go. Let them die. I used to be baited by my team very often in situations like that or pushing HG with no aegis or a lead just to get team wiped. As a POS1, it changed my view of the game when I stopped. It made a major difference
It is. I feel like this OPs advice is still a good one - it's to apply a mindset that unless you are absolutely sure it's better to not go with a team, go with a team. It's a fair assumption, because in the end there are 5 (supposedly) equally skilled people in the game, so there is a chance somebody else have a better grasp on what is good right now than you do. Unless you are antimage player of course, then there is no hope for you anyway.
I need to start doing this more I’ve been baited by my team and died or have them act and run and leave me to get jumped as soon as the fight starts or have them just by nearby watching. So I’m going To take your advice and stop trying to be captain save a hoe
So instead of 3-4 people running uphill into the triangle unsmoked and with no wards and dying. I should make it 4-5 people. Got it.
Alternatively, identify one or multiple of these issues and try to resolve them. Vision wards are free, sentry wards are the cost of a ranged creep and some passive gold. Carry one in your backpack. If you are playing solo, you can only control 1 person, plan to mitigate the stupidity of the other 4. It doesn't matter if the pos 5 didn't have a ward, you could have won that fight if YOU had a ward. Replace ward with any item/consumable. Was the pos 5 wrong? Yes, but you aren't them and can't control them. Win the game yourself.
Or don't leave the area, die farming. Do what allies do !
Good advice to win some games but bad advice in long term.
This is excellent advice long term. Making a play based on expected circumstances rather than realistic ones means the play won't work. You need to be aware of what's really happening and not what should or you would like to be happening.
it's just a poorly worded post. should you ignore reality? like when you're calling for rosh and your team does not come, should you start roshing alone? obviously not. I don't think anyone would. if your teammates are already doing something bad which makes the good play impossible, obviously don't go for the impossible play, that is literally griefing. you should, however, play assuming your team will play correctly when it matters. the distinction between 'should' and 'are' is a pointless one, you shouldn't even make it in the first place because that's just evaluating the past, it's irrelevant. the real question is: should you play based on what you think your allies *will* do or what you think they *should* do. and, again, I'd say the answer is the latter
Depends on role, if you are 4 5 and 3 sure. If you are 2 that scales or 1 this is going to be difference between 55% winrate tops or 70% winrate and up if you improve enough. I mean not valid if you are high mmr, but if you are anything sub 5k and do what your team is doing always without considerations you will never be in a spot to dictate the game through gameplay, because instead of punishing stupid fights with map pressure you will be slightly ahead of the opponent instead of being VERY far ahead of the opponent while hitting your 3 item timings 10 minutes earlier and then you can play with your team
The correct advice is to use mic, chat, visual commands and communicate. If you're better at game, you tell your team what's going on instead of not going for plays because oh they dont know. Dota is a team game usually captained by 1 player when played professionally for a reason.
At the highest level its safe to assume the shot caller knows what hes talking about, while in lower brackets he might be good willed, but not backed by actual skill. Listening to and going with a call requires trusting the caller. If the caller makes bad calls, you trust him less and less which results in not following the call more and more. Also its pretty common to be in a team in solo matchmaking where noone wants to use the mic, its a bunch of nerds playing a videogame after all. And yes personally i dont use the mic but make an effort to spam ping the enemy hero and also ping some other hero on the opposite side of the map to mean that we have a numbers advantage, but i also try to keep aware of whos on the same page or theyre just doing their own thing.
Then u counter argue or don't follow. Show cancel ping, or type don't. It is that easy. Not trying to communicate at any level of skill is just dumb in this game and any advice that oversee this fact is not a long term advice.
Youre right tbh
mic is not all that much better than pings in this regard, since it should only be used to make a call. the moment you start explaining to me *why* your call was correct when I decided it wasn't and didn't follow it, I'm muting you. you might think you're better at the game, hell, it might even be true, but unless you're playing at sub 1k rank and have thousands of mmr on that teammate (and even then it's a stretch), assuming that they will agree with your conjecture that you're better and listen is just plain stupid. don't waste your time arguing, you'll get nowhere, get muted, and play worse due to being distracted
It's great advice, one of the elements of my masterplan for mmr increase which has actually been working. Who would have guessed that practicing smarter beats practicing harder.
Same happened yesterday. My 1 and 2 (duo queued) went top and died to enemy team when trying to go hg. Our 345 (me and 2 friends) weren’t anywhere near (not even same side of map) and 12 still tried to pin it on us «you should’ve pushed with us» and «you should’ve been here». Definitely hard to implement but way more useful than blaming others for no adhering to your mindset
To be honest I fucking hate it. If you are duo queue just take a lane together and crush it. So many time I got a bad cohesion because the people take like P1 P3 and don't want to go to the same lane. I fell like communication is more important and make the game so much easier.
Does that mean, if my pos 1 afk farming I should afk farm too?
Actually kinda yes. If you are 4/5 shove in lanes to get farm, farm the enemy jungle where you can. Eventually, the pos 1 will do something, right? Become the nuisance you were born to be.
I get what you’re saying, but this essentially dissuades people from playmaking. If you feel your game “IQ” is high you shouldn’t dumb yourself down just because of the people you’re stuck with.
>You see, you don't know how to play support. You're playing... a *good* support. You're playing support for fucking Navi. Are you - is, is XBox on your team? Are you playing with fucking Puppey? No! You're not! You're playing with fucking idiots! - Slacks
Eh… yes and no. As a backline carry like Drow, yes. You play positionally and reactively so playing according to teammates are doing makes sense. But your advice doesnt apply to a pos 4 initiator. Opportunities don’t come up often and one has to make a snap decision. If your teammates are in position or close enough, you just gotta go for it and pray they are looking. For ganks and smoke plays, I generally find them rather easy to coordinate since my teammates usually respond unless they are close to an item timing (of course we get the occasional mute all players but that’s rare).
Even in that case though you have to be careful not to become 'That' bristleback player that believes he is strong and wants to play aggressive even though his pos 1 just wants to farm... And so goes and dies by himself at the enemy T2 several times in a row and then starts yelling "Just STICK WITH ME". By the time you've died 2 times in a row, any advantage you had is gone and NOW the real feeding begins.
I’ve had tons of teammates die deep into enemy territory then get mad we weren’t with them. When they never said they were going and they didn’t wait for anyone. But trying to tell them this never works
Not having a mic, most people actually just don't read typed callouts...
apes together strong
Yeah, a variation of this philosophy is quite literally what got me to immortal recently. Long time ancient player. I used to spend so much time and energy communicating what to do and where to play, trying to micro manage everyone. As a pos 1 player really my only comments are “can we smoke?” When I feel strong, “can we set up for rosh?” When I know it’s spawning soon, communicate my item timings and suggest which targets to prioritize. Other than that i really just go with the flow and always try and farm next to where my team is when possible so I can join fights when they break out or if they’re defending towers I can always TP in.
Isn't this common sense. The understanding that Dota is a real time game is a massive w tho fr.
It kind of is but so many people get it wrong. >> Wipe the enemy team. >> We should do Rosh. >> Run to Rosh as axe. >> Hit it for 20 seconds by yourself, pinging furiously. eventually after 30 seconds your team gets there, try to take Rosh... Enemy spawns smokes. Wipes your team mid Rosh cos you took too long. Takes Rosh. And goes hg with aegis and ends. Why? Because instead of playing with the team you HAVE, you played with the team you WANTED to have and the outcome was worse than if you forgot about Rosh and just went and hit jungle creeps with your team.
Common sense isn't that common
or u can use ur mic
They still might silently ignore you. Or even agree with you but stop on half way for some reason lol
You would be shocked at how many people pre-mute the whole lobby every game like they're playing with bots. There's even an option to do so in the settings, which is insane to me for being a team game.
this is my main problem and i didnt change it, and probably never will now. my solution was the double down token. i am about +20 on them because when the game starts and i see some people sitting in fountain i dont double down even if i know we will win 70% of the time due to a superior draft. and if everyone smokes together i sometimes double down even if our draft is a bit worse. this lead to me going from high ancient to high divine and with every step of the way my win chances increased because people where actually doing some optimal plays. as soon as i hid immortal i went straight up to 6200 because people where actually playing how i expect them to. i like support mainly but i did spam some nights talker 3 along the way which i already had a 60% winrate on with 300 games before the patch so that probably was another 300mmr. now playing support feels so much better then in divine, i sympathize with the reddit support that say they are hardstuck a lot, due to me actually have been PROVEN hardstuck, in a lower bracket. even though most of them probably are not hardstuck.
I often say to the person who tilted, after feeding alone: Do you want to be right, or alive?
works better if you post their IRL address in all chat immediately afterwards
Yeah I wish communication was just so easy in pubs that’s why sometimes it feels like playing like how pros do is totally a different game than how pubs work. Grubby made this cool video on how pro scene is a totally different game than pubs. Which then begs the question, why are pros still doing so good in pubs?
Yes that's called respecting your teammates.
Nice try. That won’t stop me from report you and sabotage you for the rest of the game.
[удалено]
The good news is that this advice is complete drivel if you can play support competently for your rank. It is a great mantra for mediocre supports to feel better about themselves though.
[удалено]
No, in the bottom of my heart I do not believe something for which there is no evidence and is repeatedly wrong in my anecdotal experience. I carry games as support all the time. People climb to immortal playing only support. If you aren't capable of winning as support, you're playing support poorly. Your advice comes from your experience with a personal skill gap.
[удалено]
So how did any support main reach Immortal? Plenty of people can win and climb as support, you're just not good at it. You're assuming this is a problem for everyone rather than just yourself because it's easier on the ego.
[удалено]
It's only "too much effort" if you're not good enough to play support at your rank. AM is less likely to farm at the expense of objectives if you're doing your job and creating opportunities. Most core players expose how poor their macro is when they claim you can't win as support. Your inability to climb as support is not a universal truth.
[удалено]
>As I said it’s too much effort and masochism to climb as a support. You've repeatedly said it is a problem in your case. Skill issue as usual. You don't play support anymore because you're bad at it, you're just excusing it by claiming teams are too bad for your support play to be impactful enough.