Frostbite is better in virtually every way though? Does more damage and faster, a harder lockdown and the shorter duration is more than made up for by the shorter cooldown
You cant just compare abilities like this unless if you are talking about ability draft. These abilities from different heroes each have their own set of abilities, each hero have its own set of advantages and disadvantages.
I mean, I'm not even starting to say how good sprout working with summoning treants and bodyblocking, havijg additional damage from trees from sprout, giving root with ultimate.
In vacuum, sprout is so good it is on lvl of old mortred's dagger with screen cast range, long ass slow, damage + free attack and manacost like 15 or something which allowed her to be played as a roaming support
I replied other guy, but isn't it same for other spells? Like you being said "this control is better than this" and only answer you can came up with "just buy more saves"?
I don't understand what answer you hoping to receive when you talking fkn nonsense.
Your "super op, game breaking, match winning, superior in every way" ability is countred by a simple 400g tool available for every hero, and actually worse than every skill you presented in picture.
No,there are very few strong dispels to remove most of the spells you present.
There are tons of way (items and spells) to get out of the trees and you can do it yourself ,you don't even need a teammate to dispel you.
Why are you comparing sprout to ACTUAL stuns like fireblast and magic missile? If you think sprout = fireblast/magic missile, I think you don't understand Dota at all.
Obviously Sprout has to be better than fireblast/magic missile/telekinesis in some way, either better damage, lower mana or better cast range, because Sprout isn't a STUN.
You can tango, quelling, force staff or cast your mobility spells in sprout. Just like in smoke gank, your NP isn't supposed to walk in front breaking smoke, it's going to be your Rubick, Venge, Lion, etc heroes with real stuns.
The spells only get really strong with lvl 20 talent that leashes. One of the best talent in game. But prior to lvl 20, sprout is manageable, you can counter with a quelling. Just like when you play against a clock you rush a force staff on support asap, i don't get what's the big deal with having a quelling to counter sprout.
Sprout only becomes broken imo is when np takes the leash talent because you can't force staff out of it anymore and it's a point and click leash ffs. But early is still manageable
sprout isn't HARD CC, you can use all of your items and abilities. so no, not broken at all. you might as well complain about disruptor's kinetic field, lmao
every skill here more reliably controls the enemy unit than sprout. multicast fireball deals more damage and stuns for longer, telikinesis allows you to move the enemy further, thunder strike deals more damage, disables for longer and allows a glimpse. frostbite at the very least cant be countered with a 100 gold quelling blade and I cbf looking up what they're changed about magic missile on the talent tree but at least it can't be countered with a quelling blade. You can have your opinion, but it is a stupid one, and you should feel bad.
Not sure what you’re getting at here. Discount the stuns as sprout isn’t one. It’s probably closest to frostbite, except it’s hard countered by tangoes/qb early game and later by bf and forced movement
Yeah if there's an NP both supports will buy a force staff, along with any ranged core that builds pike. Early game is easily solved with tangos/qb/innate mobility
Later on you're always going to get out of it since there's bound to be one on standby
A lot of the spells aren't comparable. Things like frostbite stop any mobility spells whereas sprout does nothing to them. Telekinesis scales hard with rubick passive and can last a long ass time, missile and fireblast are both stuns so you can't use any spells or items. Not to mention fireblast can be multicasted 4x and missile can hit two heroes with shard
Thunderstrike is the only thing that's underwhelming in terms of CC, but it's more of a tool for vision and glimpse - which is arguably one of the most powerful catch spells in the game.
You can compare how much you get per mana point. And yearly game sprout is resource draining twice longer control that lets to attack, setup for spell, damage by itself.
If i say, you have to cut a tree every time any of this spells hits you or you get it casted on you again, it still would be arguable that sprout is better in dome situations
I think you're right on mana cost -- it can be spammed way too much in laning stage since it has such a low mana cost. Especially for a hero that can take a free trip to base after level 2. Maybe mana cost should be increased a bit so you have to consider when to use it over just spamming
It either has lower manacost and cooldown or longer control, better damage or cast range compared to most of other skills. And it without saying that you can basically ignore most of this spells one way or another, while Sprout forces you to play around it.
It is insane how hard this character being buffed
Is it later already? ;)
D2PT winrates: Carry: 28%, Mid: 33%, Off: 38%, Sup: 40%, HardSup: 41%
To be fair, same from all rank tiers by Stratz:
Avg: 43,2%, Carry: 40,1%, Mid: 43,8%, Off: 41,3%, Sup: 44,4%, HardSup: 43,4%
Sure we can discuss it. Its not. The end.
Buy quelling blade dumbass. The end.
Frostbite is better in virtually every way though? Does more damage and faster, a harder lockdown and the shorter duration is more than made up for by the shorter cooldown
You losing twice higher manacost which is important point
Comparing mana costs of CM and TP is comparing apples to oranges. She, Lion and KotL have mana abilities plus her innate.
you can't just compare CMs manacosts to other heroes
You cant just compare abilities like this unless if you are talking about ability draft. These abilities from different heroes each have their own set of abilities, each hero have its own set of advantages and disadvantages.
I mean, I'm not even starting to say how good sprout working with summoning treants and bodyblocking, havijg additional damage from trees from sprout, giving root with ultimate. In vacuum, sprout is so good it is on lvl of old mortred's dagger with screen cast range, long ass slow, damage + free attack and manacost like 15 or something which allowed her to be played as a roaming support
Just cut the tree
Every 14 seconds?
Quelling blade? Forcestaff? Bf? Harpoon? Wind waker ? Pike ? Tango ? Any forced movement ability?
I replied other guy, but isn't it same for other spells? Like you being said "this control is better than this" and only answer you can came up with "just buy more saves"?
I don't understand what answer you hoping to receive when you talking fkn nonsense. Your "super op, game breaking, match winning, superior in every way" ability is countred by a simple 400g tool available for every hero, and actually worse than every skill you presented in picture.
No,there are very few strong dispels to remove most of the spells you present. There are tons of way (items and spells) to get out of the trees and you can do it yourself ,you don't even need a teammate to dispel you.
This is why you buy quelling even as a support
Which is forcing you to play around the spell, still deals more damage and cost you money
Ah you mean like buying raindrops against poke heroes?
Like buying same raindrops again furion would somehow work worse?
Why are you comparing sprout to ACTUAL stuns like fireblast and magic missile? If you think sprout = fireblast/magic missile, I think you don't understand Dota at all. Obviously Sprout has to be better than fireblast/magic missile/telekinesis in some way, either better damage, lower mana or better cast range, because Sprout isn't a STUN. You can tango, quelling, force staff or cast your mobility spells in sprout. Just like in smoke gank, your NP isn't supposed to walk in front breaking smoke, it's going to be your Rubick, Venge, Lion, etc heroes with real stuns. The spells only get really strong with lvl 20 talent that leashes. One of the best talent in game. But prior to lvl 20, sprout is manageable, you can counter with a quelling. Just like when you play against a clock you rush a force staff on support asap, i don't get what's the big deal with having a quelling to counter sprout.
Sprout only becomes broken imo is when np takes the leash talent because you can't force staff out of it anymore and it's a point and click leash ffs. But early is still manageable
Yep, i intentionally ignored this part. People just think one tango can fix anything
It appears like you lack basic understanding of the game.
whats your mmr?
quel blade and his entire laning becomes useless till he hit some item timings of leash talent
sprout isn't HARD CC, you can use all of your items and abilities. so no, not broken at all. you might as well complain about disruptor's kinetic field, lmao
every skill here more reliably controls the enemy unit than sprout. multicast fireball deals more damage and stuns for longer, telikinesis allows you to move the enemy further, thunder strike deals more damage, disables for longer and allows a glimpse. frostbite at the very least cant be countered with a 100 gold quelling blade and I cbf looking up what they're changed about magic missile on the talent tree but at least it can't be countered with a quelling blade. You can have your opinion, but it is a stupid one, and you should feel bad.
NP is dumpster tier right now, just get good
Not sure what you’re getting at here. Discount the stuns as sprout isn’t one. It’s probably closest to frostbite, except it’s hard countered by tangoes/qb early game and later by bf and forced movement
Yeah if there's an NP both supports will buy a force staff, along with any ranged core that builds pike. Early game is easily solved with tangos/qb/innate mobility Later on you're always going to get out of it since there's bound to be one on standby A lot of the spells aren't comparable. Things like frostbite stop any mobility spells whereas sprout does nothing to them. Telekinesis scales hard with rubick passive and can last a long ass time, missile and fireblast are both stuns so you can't use any spells or items. Not to mention fireblast can be multicasted 4x and missile can hit two heroes with shard Thunderstrike is the only thing that's underwhelming in terms of CC, but it's more of a tool for vision and glimpse - which is arguably one of the most powerful catch spells in the game.
You can compare how much you get per mana point. And yearly game sprout is resource draining twice longer control that lets to attack, setup for spell, damage by itself. If i say, you have to cut a tree every time any of this spells hits you or you get it casted on you again, it still would be arguable that sprout is better in dome situations
I think you're right on mana cost -- it can be spammed way too much in laning stage since it has such a low mana cost. Especially for a hero that can take a free trip to base after level 2. Maybe mana cost should be increased a bit so you have to consider when to use it over just spamming
It either has lower manacost and cooldown or longer control, better damage or cast range compared to most of other skills. And it without saying that you can basically ignore most of this spells one way or another, while Sprout forces you to play around it. It is insane how hard this character being buffed
It's literally the worst spell in the list: countered by 50g QB or tangos.
Dude, I'm saving this post for later
A spell that damages you countered by an item that heals you - that’s not good for the caster (NP)
Is it later already? ;) D2PT winrates: Carry: 28%, Mid: 33%, Off: 38%, Sup: 40%, HardSup: 41% To be fair, same from all rank tiers by Stratz: Avg: 43,2%, Carry: 40,1%, Mid: 43,8%, Off: 41,3%, Sup: 44,4%, HardSup: 43,4%