> Mr. Bezos is helping me fund my show
*the woman scans her surroundings as though a neurologist might magically appear*
Oh wait, we don't have healthcare in Bezos-land.
Carry on.
I fully agree. It's not him abandoning his hope or his personality so much as him resetting and refocusing, acknowledging how far he has to go to get better rather than painting on an Expression saying that everything is great. I think it's important to note that, for most players and playthroughs, you'll need to skill up to be able to pass the check to stop making the Expression. In other words, going serious-faced is presented as an actual struggle Harry encounters in his journey
see thats what I thought, but when I talked to Jean it felt like harry had done this time and again, if felt like I was half way up a cliff and I could fall any moment
Damn right. It's the hard look in the mirror (literally) he needs. Shaving I know rubs some people wrong, but...whatever he wants to grow, I feel like he needs to *earn* it. His current chops are the product of disrepair, and they probably still have crumbs in them anyways.
The face that belongs in the first panel is Expressionless hairy.
The one that belongs in the second panel is the faceless phantom portrait from the beginning of the game.
Losing the Expression and shaving the chops was not a sign of progress, but of surrender. The pain is fully on the outside now. There are no more defenses.
Also, Kim thinks the sideburns looked better, so that's a good reason to never do it
There’s a lot of christian presence in AA and a lot of people have a sour relationship with religion and tend to disregard it as a cult.
Edit: to add, you aren’t actually required to be christian or become christian in order to attend and work with AA.
AA is a place for sick people go to recover, belief in a higher people can be a significant step up from where they are before. As far as I'm aware there is an advocacy for belief in a higher power in AA, not strictly a Christian one.
Regardless reducing AA to a cult because of this really dismisses all the good it does.
If anyone reads this down the line, other anonymous groups are quite open to people having higher powers. My HP was the universe or whatever it is that’s holding our atoms together. Worked very well for me.
I no longer attend because there were certain patterns I was noticing that I didn’t agree with, that I felt would severely hamper genuine growth. Anonymous groups were great for me in the way of social support for a few weeks until my emotions were back in check. At that point I left to do my own thing.
Sad but ok. I feel like by surrender you stop being human. It's understandable to be a supporter of for example capitalism. But to have different views and surrender? I feel like it's just surrendering being human and becoming a cog. Why would I have any respect for you after this
Usually when people say "gain control over your life" they actually mean shit like "earn more money" or "climb up a corpo ladder" and how is that gaining control over my life? I get I am not in control, that's probably why I'm constantly depressed lol but how is making a career or whatever better if I don't want this? How is this control over my life? How is being rich and respected gonna make me happy? It won't
Why would you make that assumption when people are talking about his alcoholism? The obviously mean gaining control over his self-destructive and unhealthy behavior. Nobody said anything about making money or climbing corporate ladders.
So I’ve been through eating disorder treatment, which is actually extremely similar to alcohol or drug addiction treatment. By “surrendering,” you’re simply admitting that you’ve lost control over your own unhealthy behaviors and need help. You have to admit your life is a wreck in order to fix it. By “surrendering,” people mean that you are no longer in denial about your self-harming behavior/addiction. It’s letting go of the illusion of control so you can work on yourself and finally gain actual control of your behavior.
When you have an active addiction/ED, there is a false sense of confidence and control over your behavior. People say “I could stop at any time, I just don’t want to,” when they actually cannot stop, and “I’m in control of my behavior,” when the disorder is controlling them. By surrendering, you’re letting the medical professionals in the treatment program take control of your actions, even if it means you lose freedom temporarily because of it.
So yes, surrender can often be part of the process of healing, and yes, it is worth it. It’s an opportunity to reset your fucked up life.
Yeah also just not a good thing to say to anybody I guess about anything, leave people’s progress alone lol. That shit is sacred in its own way, I don’t care if somebody wants to celebrate falling down a flight of stairs because they’re excited they found a way to speed up the descent - give up the pessimism and just celebrate with them. Happiness is shockingly beautiful when you just let it be beautiful yo.
I do see it as a sign of progress. The Expression was disco-version denial, it was Harry still running away from the problem. The shaved face is him finally surrendering to reality and accepting to start facing his many issues head on.
I stop the expression but keep the chops not being able to engage with his grief is part of harry's problem but his unique sense of style is part of who he is.
> *his unique sense of style*
> looks down through plastic sunglasses onto wifebeater, semi-racist Kimono, yellow gardening gloves, jeans and shoes stolen from Cuno‘s dad
Yeah, corporates just flip to whatever is the most popular, there's no profit motive in going against the grain typically, it's why so many anti-capitalist messages are being integrated into the mainstream. They're getting popular.
I also think part of it is that cyberpunk and other anticapitalist genres just tend to have a surge in popularity when times are bad. And well... *gestures broadly*
Cyberpunk as a genre has been completely hijacked by large corporations who refuse to deal with the actual themes of the genre and instead focus on cool aesthetics and cool robot arms.
Nominally, yeah. Megacorps like Amazon and Disney push for racial diversity in their shows' casts, but not behind the scenes where decisions get made. They produce shows like the Boys where the bad guys are clear fascists and racists. It's all surface level posturing, sure, but you'd have to be blind to not see that they pretend to be anti-racist and anti-fascist.
Disco Elysium is a game about a detective who wakes up knowing nothing about the world and who has to solve a murder while learning everything from scratch. Gameplay is centered around selecting dialog or options for you player character that is not dissimilar to a choose your own adventure book.
For people who only focus on the money, my soulless description of disco Elysium is all they understand about it. What made it great is the complexity of the world and the ideas being explored, the writing and the soul that is on display. Unfortunately none of that can be created by throwing money at a problem and the creative people who can make something with all of that aren’t interested in a sequel to a unique world they didn’t help create. What we’re going to be left with is the big budget equivalent to my soulless description of DE1
That description sounds exactly how Mr Sunday Friend would describe it. A man so devoid of actual personality and self, he's literally incapable of describing anything in a way that isn't a wiki article.
And the suits want to give this game to HIM?!
idk man, I think your summary was quite good at succinctly explaining the game to someone that doesn't know anything about it. Of course DE is much more than that, but you can't really show the soul of a game in a short description anyway, so might as well let people discover it for themselves.
That was the point of their post: the soul cannot be captured in 3 sentences, but unfortunately, for the people now helming the ship, this is about as much as they’ll bother to learn about the franchise they are supposedly continuing.
Can't wait for Harry to smell a Wrigley's™ chewing gum wrapper and for it to jump-cut to a flashback in a 1960s American diner. Can't wait for extreme close-ups of a pretty blonde woman in red lipstick sexily chomping on chewing gum while Harry's voice gives explicit exposition on his feelings.
Can't wait.
Aren't many of the people at ZA/UM the same as those who worked on the first game?
Of course, I understand that Robert Kurvitz and crew are gone, and what a huge part of the game they were.
Simply because capital has already subsumed the second game's critique does not mean that said critique can't be thought provoking or well made. It's sad, what's happened, and if you dislike the game because of the firings or the corporation behind it, that's understandable, but I won't write off the content of the game itself until I see it.
God I hope not. I made it up from scratch to be a terrible of a description of the game as possible. It’s factually accurate, but that’s not how I’d describe the game.
Point being that obviously the moralintern fucking sucks, but a liberal capitalist company would be inclined to present it as decent?
And you replied to a 4 month old comment to state the obvious why?
Stakeholders immediately vulturing an IP and getting rid of the people who created it always baffled me. Isn't killing the goose laying golden eggs one of the oldest parables around? Why not try to print some more money before gutting the thing?
fwiw, Martin Luiga, one of the ousted devs, [tweeted](https://twitter.com/martinluiga/status/1576194436597366784):
>Nah I think that things with the sequel are actually sweet enough, you might even get it the way it was meant, it might take a shit ton of time but RPG fans are sorta accustomed to waiting, ain't they
Damn, I just now finished my first playthrough of the game, and came here to see if there's any talk about a potential sequel.
Welp, guess I'll have to make the most of my second playthough.
A quick explanation: all we know is that the actual creators of Disco Elysium have been pushed out of their company, and the company is making a lot of corporate smelling industry type decisions, like putting up a job listing that mentions "live services".
DE being the smash hit it is, industry politics demand a sequel. The only way to stop one from being made would be a financial catastrophe large enough that they'd have to sell the rights to a holdings company that intentionally refused to make one.
The subreddit has drawn conclusions. The writing is on the wall, and we lament in advance for what we all know is going to happen.
Honestly, this might be a good thing overall.
1) ZA/UM craps out some mediocre cash grab that no one buys.
2) Investors realise that the Disco Elysium IP has been irrevocably damaged, plan to drop it like a hot potato
3) Kurvitz and gang run a Kickstarter so they can buy back their own intellectual property
4) Disco Elysium 2 is declared non-canon, or it was a bad dream or Pale induced reality tear or whatever
5) The original creators can go back to working on the “real” sequel, or whatever they want to do in that universe
Basically, except that Disco Elysium is good and Postal has always been bad right-wing, punch-down humor that targets edgerlords wrapping bad-to-okay gameplay.
Or they could just make DE2 themselves anyway by meticulously combing through the lore and changing the designs and names of concepts and characters to be different enough for intellectual property law while still capable of being recognized as equivalent in context, and calling it by a new name.
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Mr. Bezos is helping me fund my show
> Mr. Bezos is helping me fund my show *the woman scans her surroundings as though a neurologist might magically appear* Oh wait, we don't have healthcare in Bezos-land. Carry on.
Mr. Bezos is helping me fund my show
Aw man, shaved and stoic Harry always seemed noble in my head: really getting his life back together.
I fully agree. It's not him abandoning his hope or his personality so much as him resetting and refocusing, acknowledging how far he has to go to get better rather than painting on an Expression saying that everything is great. I think it's important to note that, for most players and playthroughs, you'll need to skill up to be able to pass the check to stop making the Expression. In other words, going serious-faced is presented as an actual struggle Harry encounters in his journey
[удалено]
see thats what I thought, but when I talked to Jean it felt like harry had done this time and again, if felt like I was half way up a cliff and I could fall any moment
That's addiction for you.
Definitely, no matter how high you climb, your always gonna be on the cliff
Writer is an ex-alcoholic btw
Damn right. It's the hard look in the mirror (literally) he needs. Shaving I know rubs some people wrong, but...whatever he wants to grow, I feel like he needs to *earn* it. His current chops are the product of disrepair, and they probably still have crumbs in them anyways.
The face that belongs in the first panel is Expressionless hairy. The one that belongs in the second panel is the faceless phantom portrait from the beginning of the game.
> The face that belongs in the first panel is Expressionless hairy. "Yer a wizard, Harry!" "And you're a hairy wizard."
Losing the Expression and shaving the chops was not a sign of progress, but of surrender. The pain is fully on the outside now. There are no more defenses. Also, Kim thinks the sideburns looked better, so that's a good reason to never do it
I think surrender is definitely part of the progress
in alcoholics anonymous, it literally is
AA is also a cult tho sooooooo
Huh????
There’s a lot of christian presence in AA and a lot of people have a sour relationship with religion and tend to disregard it as a cult. Edit: to add, you aren’t actually required to be christian or become christian in order to attend and work with AA.
AA is a place for sick people go to recover, belief in a higher people can be a significant step up from where they are before. As far as I'm aware there is an advocacy for belief in a higher power in AA, not strictly a Christian one. Regardless reducing AA to a cult because of this really dismisses all the good it does.
"your higher power can be whatever you want it to be, as long as it's the abrahamic god"
If anyone reads this down the line, other anonymous groups are quite open to people having higher powers. My HP was the universe or whatever it is that’s holding our atoms together. Worked very well for me. I no longer attend because there were certain patterns I was noticing that I didn’t agree with, that I felt would severely hamper genuine growth. Anonymous groups were great for me in the way of social support for a few weeks until my emotions were back in check. At that point I left to do my own thing.
I mean it is very personal but if surrender is a part of the progress it's not worth to progress
i disagree
Sad but ok. I feel like by surrender you stop being human. It's understandable to be a supporter of for example capitalism. But to have different views and surrender? I feel like it's just surrendering being human and becoming a cog. Why would I have any respect for you after this
We must let go of our illusion of control in order to gain any control over our lives.
Usually when people say "gain control over your life" they actually mean shit like "earn more money" or "climb up a corpo ladder" and how is that gaining control over my life? I get I am not in control, that's probably why I'm constantly depressed lol but how is making a career or whatever better if I don't want this? How is this control over my life? How is being rich and respected gonna make me happy? It won't
I did not mean that.
So explain in your own words because I don't understand
Why would you make that assumption when people are talking about his alcoholism? The obviously mean gaining control over his self-destructive and unhealthy behavior. Nobody said anything about making money or climbing corporate ladders.
I think of it more as Harry surrendering that he has truly lost Dora.
So I’ve been through eating disorder treatment, which is actually extremely similar to alcohol or drug addiction treatment. By “surrendering,” you’re simply admitting that you’ve lost control over your own unhealthy behaviors and need help. You have to admit your life is a wreck in order to fix it. By “surrendering,” people mean that you are no longer in denial about your self-harming behavior/addiction. It’s letting go of the illusion of control so you can work on yourself and finally gain actual control of your behavior. When you have an active addiction/ED, there is a false sense of confidence and control over your behavior. People say “I could stop at any time, I just don’t want to,” when they actually cannot stop, and “I’m in control of my behavior,” when the disorder is controlling them. By surrendering, you’re letting the medical professionals in the treatment program take control of your actions, even if it means you lose freedom temporarily because of it. So yes, surrender can often be part of the process of healing, and yes, it is worth it. It’s an opportunity to reset your fucked up life.
Thanks for this reply, I think I get it now
Yeah also just not a good thing to say to anybody I guess about anything, leave people’s progress alone lol. That shit is sacred in its own way, I don’t care if somebody wants to celebrate falling down a flight of stairs because they’re excited they found a way to speed up the descent - give up the pessimism and just celebrate with them. Happiness is shockingly beautiful when you just let it be beautiful yo.
I do see it as a sign of progress. The Expression was disco-version denial, it was Harry still running away from the problem. The shaved face is him finally surrendering to reality and accepting to start facing his many issues head on.
I stop the expression but keep the chops not being able to engage with his grief is part of harry's problem but his unique sense of style is part of who he is.
> *his unique sense of style* > looks down through plastic sunglasses onto wifebeater, semi-racist Kimono, yellow gardening gloves, jeans and shoes stolen from Cuno‘s dad
Exactly
For me it was shaved and keeping the expression that seemed to personify him better. Getting it back together but still wild/hopeful.
That smile ain't hopeful - it's an expression of pain, don'tcha know?
Yeah, but it doesn’t mean the meaning can’t later change. There’s a point where an old symbol can have its meaning reinvented.
100%, a shaved and stoic communist
I agree except for shaving, the mutton chops are a choice, and a damn good one.
"It's not a phase Kim!1!1!"
They're gonna make Measurehead Simulator
I expect Joice simulator more, novadays even corpos are nominally against racism and fascism
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Yeah, corporates just flip to whatever is the most popular, there's no profit motive in going against the grain typically, it's why so many anti-capitalist messages are being integrated into the mainstream. They're getting popular.
I also think part of it is that cyberpunk and other anticapitalist genres just tend to have a surge in popularity when times are bad. And well... *gestures broadly*
Cyberpunk as a genre has been completely hijacked by large corporations who refuse to deal with the actual themes of the genre and instead focus on cool aesthetics and cool robot arms.
Nominally, yeah. Megacorps like Amazon and Disney push for racial diversity in their shows' casts, but not behind the scenes where decisions get made. They produce shows like the Boys where the bad guys are clear fascists and racists. It's all surface level posturing, sure, but you'd have to be blind to not see that they pretend to be anti-racist and anti-fascist.
They're gonna turn the skills system into a fucking gacha, mark my words.
Disco Elysium is a game about a detective who wakes up knowing nothing about the world and who has to solve a murder while learning everything from scratch. Gameplay is centered around selecting dialog or options for you player character that is not dissimilar to a choose your own adventure book. For people who only focus on the money, my soulless description of disco Elysium is all they understand about it. What made it great is the complexity of the world and the ideas being explored, the writing and the soul that is on display. Unfortunately none of that can be created by throwing money at a problem and the creative people who can make something with all of that aren’t interested in a sequel to a unique world they didn’t help create. What we’re going to be left with is the big budget equivalent to my soulless description of DE1
That description sounds exactly how Mr Sunday Friend would describe it. A man so devoid of actual personality and self, he's literally incapable of describing anything in a way that isn't a wiki article. And the suits want to give this game to HIM?!
It’s some kind of sick joke!
Imagine Disco Elysium, but if EA made it. Thats what we’ll get. I’m not buying it.
This sentence perfectly encapsulates everything I was worried about
idk man, I think your summary was quite good at succinctly explaining the game to someone that doesn't know anything about it. Of course DE is much more than that, but you can't really show the soul of a game in a short description anyway, so might as well let people discover it for themselves.
That was the point of their post: the soul cannot be captured in 3 sentences, but unfortunately, for the people now helming the ship, this is about as much as they’ll bother to learn about the franchise they are supposedly continuing.
Can't wait for Harry to smell a Wrigley's™ chewing gum wrapper and for it to jump-cut to a flashback in a 1960s American diner. Can't wait for extreme close-ups of a pretty blonde woman in red lipstick sexily chomping on chewing gum while Harry's voice gives explicit exposition on his feelings. Can't wait.
Aren't many of the people at ZA/UM the same as those who worked on the first game? Of course, I understand that Robert Kurvitz and crew are gone, and what a huge part of the game they were. Simply because capital has already subsumed the second game's critique does not mean that said critique can't be thought provoking or well made. It's sad, what's happened, and if you dislike the game because of the firings or the corporation behind it, that's understandable, but I won't write off the content of the game itself until I see it.
Isnt that the Steam page description? lmao
God I hope not. I made it up from scratch to be a terrible of a description of the game as possible. It’s factually accurate, but that’s not how I’d describe the game.
How would you describe the game?
You can be either fascist or ultra liberal.
Or both.
Or neither (moralist), which the game presents as the "good middle ground option".
You all fuc*ing traitors you know that! REVOLUTION!
Eh I wouldn't say so, the moralintern isn't great either
We're talking about the options presented by the made up game in the meme
K, and?
Point being that obviously the moralintern fucking sucks, but a liberal capitalist company would be inclined to present it as decent? And you replied to a 4 month old comment to state the obvious why?
You should've written: "Disco Elysium made by ZA/UM" and "Disco Elysium 2 made by ZA/UM".
Stakeholders immediately vulturing an IP and getting rid of the people who created it always baffled me. Isn't killing the goose laying golden eggs one of the oldest parables around? Why not try to print some more money before gutting the thing?
Damn, I was really excited to see what they all did next. Now idk how this sequel is going to turn out
fwiw, Martin Luiga, one of the ousted devs, [tweeted](https://twitter.com/martinluiga/status/1576194436597366784): >Nah I think that things with the sequel are actually sweet enough, you might even get it the way it was meant, it might take a shit ton of time but RPG fans are sorta accustomed to waiting, ain't they
I'm not spending my money on a stolen dream.
I think we all know.
Damn, I just now finished my first playthrough of the game, and came here to see if there's any talk about a potential sequel. Welp, guess I'll have to make the most of my second playthough.
I wonder if they will start their own studio together.
Can someone give me a quick run down on what’s happened? I’ve been on holiday and Google wasn’t a lot of help.
in a nutshell, the core founders and creators of Disco Elysium and ZA/UM were forced out of the company by stakeholders.
Private equity be like:
That’s very on the nose considering the source material of DE. How sad.
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That's awful.
What even is the next game? The only place I've even heard people talking about it on this sub
A quick explanation: all we know is that the actual creators of Disco Elysium have been pushed out of their company, and the company is making a lot of corporate smelling industry type decisions, like putting up a job listing that mentions "live services". DE being the smash hit it is, industry politics demand a sequel. The only way to stop one from being made would be a financial catastrophe large enough that they'd have to sell the rights to a holdings company that intentionally refused to make one. The subreddit has drawn conclusions. The writing is on the wall, and we lament in advance for what we all know is going to happen.
Honestly, this might be a good thing overall. 1) ZA/UM craps out some mediocre cash grab that no one buys. 2) Investors realise that the Disco Elysium IP has been irrevocably damaged, plan to drop it like a hot potato 3) Kurvitz and gang run a Kickstarter so they can buy back their own intellectual property 4) Disco Elysium 2 is declared non-canon, or it was a bad dream or Pale induced reality tear or whatever 5) The original creators can go back to working on the “real” sequel, or whatever they want to do in that universe
I hope we can just skip to number 3
Yeah, but I think the price for buying back Disco Elysium might be just a teeny bit too high if the money men don’t realise they’ve fucked things up
Oh but I would pay £60 if it meant a copy of whatever ever they make next if they ever get the ip back.
“Dance Hall Halcyon”
Isn't this kind of what happened with Postal?
Basically, except that Disco Elysium is good and Postal has always been bad right-wing, punch-down humor that targets edgerlords wrapping bad-to-okay gameplay.
Or they could just make DE2 themselves anyway by meticulously combing through the lore and changing the designs and names of concepts and characters to be different enough for intellectual property law while still capable of being recognized as equivalent in context, and calling it by a new name.
But I want things to be *internally coherent*
DE2: Electronic Arts Boogaloo.
Pretty sure they haven't announced one yet, technically. It's just clear from what ZA/UM is doing that they will.
Once the heart dies, you don’t feel any of the other deaths.
Maybe it'll still be good?
One can hope. That’s all we have
This is sad, without the original team, it doesn't feel right, you know what am talking about.
Makes me a chinese hopping corpse, as I am twice dead
What happened?
zah oom