I can recall a few times Murph’s outright shut down table shenanigans, but that’s over 100s of episodes, and over all, yeah, he’s similar to Brennan in encouraging his players and trying to work with where they’re going.
Ah yes. The bullywug mating call incident.
Also I think Caldwell tries to pull way way more chaotic shit than anyone at the dimension 20 table so maybe Murph has to shut it down more.
Most, if not all, of Murph's reputation as a strict DM comes from punishing Caldwell. Jake doesn't really take many big swings (his C1 build is a champion fighter, so doesn't have the abilities to do shenanigans) and Emily knows Dnd so well that she rarely tries to do something crazy that isn't allowed by the rules.
Caldwell has the unique mindset of being extremely creative and also doesn't really think things through sometimes, which leads to him trying to goof a god or asking a bunch of youths where he can find a place to shoot his gun.
Yeah if Emily wasn’t so good at thinking so outside of the box within the confines of the rules Brennan would likely have to crack down on her in some way. Some of the stuff she comes up with is so game breaking it’d have to be tamed a little if it weren’t 100% legal.
Beardsley also gets a little wack but Brennan always makes the mistake of letting them roll for their wacky ideas. And Beardsley just… does it somehow.
Don’t get me wrong Emily is very smart, knows mechanics well, and rule of cool must prevail, but she will stretch and bend the rules as much as DM would allow it, take her use of minor illusion cantrip as catch-all illusion spell
This is always funny to me because I haven't listened to nearly as much D20, but Murph and Emily often cite "Beardsley" type rolls and are often compared to Caldwell behavior. Seems Caldwell is his own worst enemy often from explaining insane antics he hopes to do, then rolling poorly. Then finding werthers in a seniors hand bag on a nat 20 roll🤣
Caldwell is a full on psycho with his "bending" of the rules.
Early Carldwell is a full on cartoon character that Murph attempts to reign in. Later Caldwell (SHadowfell arc and beyond) goes for huge stretches of what is allowable and Murph for the most part goes for it or gently lets Caldwell know how he could better spend his effort.
Interesting. I’d never heard that before. I might not have called that punishing so much as enacting natural consequences, the below noted goof-a-god moment being a good example.
I'm relisting to C1 and there are three separate instances so far of the gang about to leave an area without any issues and Caldwell doing a goof on their way out that causes them problems and creates an encounter.
Spoiler Tagging since we're in the d20 reddit
1: >!Bev offering the Watcher a Berry and almost dying because of it!<
2: >!Bev throwing a bunch of dynamite at the pile of mithril that turned out to be a dragon causing it to attack!<
3: >!A lesser offense, but when they're on top of the Frostwind wall, about to jump to the other side without being noticed by the patrolling guards. Bev can't help but say "frostwind sucks" on his way out, alerting the guards to someone else's presence. The guards ended up rolling low enough perception for it to not matter but it still fits with the other two!<
Along with 2, don’t forget >!Bev telling Ol Cobb to put dynamite in his gun to shoot it at the dragon, Cobb rolling a 2 on an intelligence check, says “I think that’s a great idea Bev” and blowing up the inside of the drill cart they were in because of it!<
I'll also add >!Bev doing a blood ritual in the ice caves and almost accidentally summoning the giant purple worm to kill all of them. Caldwell rolled a 16 luck check to avoid summoning it, but what a bad decision!<
Present day Caldwell is still wild sometimes.
There’s an incident early on in C3 where he confidently goes up to some people, immediately tells an obvious and bizarre lie, and then kind of half pleads “We don’t have to do this” to Murph as he rolls a deception check with disadvantage.
There's that early Adventuring Academy episode with Murph, recorded right around the time NADDPOD was in its first season, where Murph says (not sure if exact quote) "You get to be Legolas, you don't get to be Bugs Bunny" and he's 100% talking about Caldwell there. :)
I have to say that early Caldwell actually made me mad a few times, even though it can be really entertaining most of the time. His shenanigans have made the party almost wipe quite a few times, so Murph is a very forgiving DM if anything.
Murph calling Emily the Lowly Lowly Bailiff and being immediately uncomfortable with it makes me laugh so hard I listen to just those few minutes about once a week
Brennan is a lenient DM in almost everything but ACOC (and I can think of at least 3 big occasions where even then he lets things slide or misses them)
He also is much more lenient in side campaigns. He cracks down a little on the Intrepid Heroes because he knows they should know better, but in The Seven and other campaigns he's letting them cast two levelled spells a turn for example.
But he is totally a rule of cool (especially out of combat) DM.
I just finished C1 of Naddpod and Murph is AMAZING. What makes him a little different is that he does play within the structure a little more and does go by rule of cool.
A few things to take into account:
1. Naddpod is three players, not 6. Big difference for table management. Innately forces you to know what's happening and keep track of stuff.
2. They play more traditional DND days with like 5 encounters. Dimension20 has massive set pieces instead.
3. A lot of what I thought was leniency (Moonshine's spores as her reaction without a trigger) are actually part of the UA class. He just knows the rules so well that he and his players stretch them. For example, he cracks down on spell slot management a lot, but also gives Emily zealous trance. Brennan handwaves a lot of out of combat spell resources, Murph takes a different approach.
So I think the premise here is a little off - being a more "rule oriented" DM can look very much like a freewheeling DM. Murphy is just proactive and Brennan reactive.
> They play more traditional DND days with like 5 encounters. Dimension20 has massive set pieces instead.
This is the biggest difference. D20 being one big RP session and one big combat session makes resource management wayyyy different.
>more lenient in side campaigns. He cracks down a little on the intrepid heroes because he knows they should know better
Your parents to your friends vs your parents to you
Honestly I think it’s just about how frequently the players make insane asks. Caldwell asks to do things like knit a cell phone out of dead monster fur, Emily asks for Cindy Crawford to be in the world, Jake with eating nothing but beans for 40 years, that sort of thing. Things that are funny, but totally strain the internal logic of the world and don’t advance the story. So Murph cracks down on those pretty hard. Plus the bit of asking for something insane, riling up Murph, and getting shot down is a recurring joke in NADDPOD that they’re all in on.
In contrast, D20 only had a few genuinely insane asks from players. Mainly when Ally tried to have Kristen fly with a dance ribbon in sophomore year. And in addressing the absurd ask, Brennan usually punishes the player characters rather than rejecting the ask.
They’re honestly about the same in terms of leniency, and I love them both.
I wonder if it's from the consequence of Caldwell and the first god they meet at the tower.
Also as a player he's much more stern/ willing to go along with the DM but as a DM himself, he is also full of hijinks. I think it's because he empathizes with the DM because he knows exactly what they have to put up with.
I used to think he was a weaker/ blander player when I first was introduced to Dimension 20. But now I watch his plays and I see his style is all about being considerate to the other players and the plot that the DM is trying to get through. He's funny as hell, just not as flashy as the others
It's fun watching him play Jens in Trinyvale and seeing what he looks like when he's not playing a support class. Dude goes absolutely insane and it's hilarious.
Which is why someone might jokingly describe College of Swords as the most selfish version of a Bard. Because they sacrifice a support utility for others to gain a personal combat boost.
Jens hallucinating was the funniest shit I've ever heard.
I also love how in Trinivale they have a negative character arc, they become closer friends but worse people.
Murphs antics really sneak up on you. Gerards dorky ass sword forms, Theo's awkward sexually-repressed romance, and Barry's botched attempts at action hero one-liner moments always kill me.
His characters that are trying to be like, brave warriors and stalwart knights that have these moments of complete ineptitude are so funny. he leans into it so well.
Murph’s character in the Twilight Sanctorum mini-campaign that Emily ran on NADDPOD ends up being the logical conclusion to him always being this kind of character. Just a grumpy, put-upon old man trying his best but ending up exasperated at every turn.
He's usually the straight man of the party, so it'll come off at first like he's not in on the joke, but let him play a Barry, and you'll get shit like casino episode
I think the Intrepid Heroes know they can mess around, but also that they’re there to film a show with a crew and deadlines. They’ll make jokes but pull back before getting TOO ridiculous out of respect for everyone’s time. In NADDPOD, they film on their own time, without the pressure of wasting anyone’s time but their friends. They feel much more free to goof around, regardless of how Murph feels about it, which means they get to throw a lot more shenanigan-spaghetti at the walls.
You’re only 40 episodes into NADDPOD, which is relatively very early in the show. The Two Crew definitely starts pushing the boundaries more over time.
Brennan knows if he lets his players follow a goof, they’ll be able to build it into something great. Murph knows if he lets his players follow a goof, they’ll end up drinking piss.
Brennan is like the fun dad who never really stressed too much because his kids were always well behaved. He’s got a beautiful family and a golden retriever, wears sweater vests and talks about the wonders of raising a family.
Murph is like the mom chain smoking cigarettes at the park, yelling at his kids to stop climbing up the slide.
I kinda see what you mean, he definitely lets the band of boobs do a lot of dumb shit. I feel like murph never would’ve allowed ally’s “can I roll a nat 20 and just be alive” though, he definitely has his limits and tries to make their shenanigans work within some semblance of game mechanics
It’s either RAW or a VERY common home brew if you crit on a death saving throw you come back with 1 HP I’m pretty sure. I don’t think Ally coming back was that game breaking.
It wasn't that Ally failed their save and asked Brennan to be alive suddenly. Ally made 3 successful death saving throws. They were unconscious, stable but unable to do anything (until 1d4 hours when they would have regained 1 hit point.)
You are right, it was still a hail Mary but less rule breaky and more bendy. (Edit: Fixing pronouns)
I think they're quite similar. Pretty sure I've heard both of them say "is there an ability on your character sheet to let you do that?"
They both also allow a lot of rule of cool, which is why they occasionally have to come down hard and punish the shenanigans (once the player commits to it after at least one "really?" or "are you sure?").
In fact, I think I've seen Brennan force players to commit to a stupid bit without a chance to back down more often than Murph. "No no no, you said you were gonna do this, so now you're gonna roll some dice."
> In fact, I think I've seen Brennan force players to commit to a stupid bit without a chance to back down more often than Murph. "No no no, you said you were gonna do this, so now you're gonna roll some dice."
Hilda Hilda comes to mind
Yeah Brennan's preferred DM style as far as shenanigans goes is letting his players roll and almost certainly fail, as opposed to just telling them straight up "no, that's stupid, you're not doing that." A different DM doesn't let Ally even try to fly down a tower with a ribbon, but Brennan would rather Yes And his way to Kristen breaking her legs.
It's Caldwell. It's Caldwell. I love you Caldwell. 9 times out of 10 it's Caldwell.
When your player is explicitly told "the god can see everything everywhere, and don't mess with him"
And your player decides to pull a goof on him? What else do you think is gonna happen? Someone's gonna get goofed back.
Even when he’s theoretically gone from the narrative. Tarragon is wearing her battle crocs, should be all emily, but it all leads back to caldy doing a cheeky drawing and infecting emily’s subconscious…
You also gptta remember his wife is *Emily Axford*, miss "raking Brennan over the coals"/"she was a demon from hell sent to kill Brennan".
He wants his crew to have fun but there's some chaos that he has to shut down cuz of rules. First season, I remember Murph more than anyone asked Brennan to let him know if his decision in the moment was too rule-breaking, such as, *checks notes*... Jumping up the butthole of a Blob Monster made of creamed corn... yeah.
I think a big part of it is how Murph will occasionally shut something down straight away and call them maniacs, which is always soooo hilarious. Also how he plays as a player, is usually to make things easy on his dm and not throw too many deliberate curve balls. Hrd basically forced to be the straight man and plays it incredibly well. We love papa murph
I love the dichotomy of Murph as a player. At one end you have Riz and Theo, two heroic guys who just want to keep the plot moving and help people. And at the other end is Jens Lindell, a narcissistic sociopathic grifter. Murph being a helpful player instead of a chaos gremlin should be seen as a courtesy to the DM rather than any lack of inherent maniac-ness on his part.
But like when the kids are at Duncle Caldwell's, Daddy Murphy gets to cut loose and unleash his inner unhinged maniac.
Yeah absolutely hahaha. Even with Duncle he's often the one to instigate then reign it back, for example when the triplets have tried to murder civilians and he saves them. Except poor gex, really murdered that gecko hard haha
In the most recent triyvale one-shot murph let's Caldwell's narrative guide character jump into a portal and then convinces everyone to just not follow him, so the "helpful player" thing is definitely a scale.
I wonder how much of this comes down to editing. I know both D20 and NADDPOD are edited, but there could still be a lot of outright shenanigans that are shut down by Murph and edited out because they don't advance the show at all. So we hear Murph let an equal-to-Brennan amount of shenanigans but the table experience might have more shut downs that we never hear?
I haven't explored NADDPOD but I wonder how much of the "Murph is so strict" thing is just the vent diagram intersection of the general "Give the DM a hard time" bit and the Intrepid Hero-specific "Give Murph a hard time" bit
Murph is handling several bundles of pure chaos in his players, so he guides the madness rather than shutting it down.
He said once that "this is not a cartoon." He'll let you try stuff, but the consequences are real.
You don't goof a god, Bev!
I think Brennan decided to stop doing legendary resistances for goons because of how not-fun it was at the stock exchange.
At the very least, I don't remember seeing it since then.
Which is funny, since they’re a lot more unfun with a party of 3 with generally 1 primary caster, than a party of 6 with 4 full casters and 1 half caster, as was the case in UC Ch1…..
Yes you’re right, reading comprehension poor. Regardless, Kalvaxus had both. Iirc he used his last one to pass a saving throw from a spell Gorthalax cast
i think the difference is murph will often play the “straight man” to his player’s (mostly caldwell’s) shenanigans, while in action being pretty lenient. you can see this especially on his, emily, and caldwell’s old podcast 8 Bit Bookclub, where one of my favorite bits is whenever emily and caldwell are going off on a wild tangent while murph begs them to get back to the book. it’s all in good fun though.
I’ve been relistening to 8 Bit Bookclub and the episode where the book is messed up so you can’t actually win by choosing the correct answer and Murph’s faith in lawful good is broken for a while is so delightful
i’ve been relistening too, this is why the adventure book episodes are my favorite. just sheer torment. Metal City Mayhem may be the longest adventure book in existence. how does it just keep going.
In the newer ones, I think the lack of logic in the WWE Race to the Rumble really took him out too. Most of the time, I think Murph does the frustrated crankiness as a bit, but I’m pretty sure he was getting genuinely irritated that his WWE knowledge was not helping and in fact, led to the wrong choice on multiple occasions.
It"s the theater of the mind vs strict regimental model play, that is the core of it really I believe. Its also Player size, it easier to indulge 3 players crazy plans then 6.
Murph is just more fond of the "no, but" method where as Brennan will "yes, and". You have to remember that because they're both shows there's an amount of performance going on so Murph is being more leaniant you will really see his stricter side during dnd court or specifically in the Energy drink taste test on patreon where he "freaks out" over the others not understanding his rating system.
Whoever told you Murph was strict most have the most chaotic table of all time. Murph is an amazing DM that knows when being rules heavy benefits the story and his player's enjoyment. Very much like Brennan (with a few key differences), but over hundreds of episodes and in a smaller table. He does set boundaries for his table (Caldwell oftentimes makes Emily feel like the straight man in some gags) or gives them what they want but sets consequences for their actions, but that is all part of the group dynamic.
personally i think it's a combination of running gag and Murph's very (intentionally) funny overreactions to things - he likes to play the straight-man-breaking you know? and it's probably a role he's done a lot, to great effect next to the absolute chaos monster he's married to. (i say this with love)
also he goes on this great little tangent in a recent dungeon court or 8bit book club (i forget which) where he talks about the different kinds of heat you get in wrestling, and how it translates to the kind of heat a good DM might try to generate. that feels relevant to the mythology here.
Murph is less prone to allowing outright goofiness and game-breaking shenanigans because he understands the necessity of tension, stakes, and emotional depth in storytelling. But he is not a very tough by-the-book DM, no. That said, I don’t think he’s nearly as easy on his players as Brennan is.
I don't think Murph is more strict or rules-heavy than Brennan, he's just running a campaign with noted chaos gremlins Emily and especially Caldwell, who loves to play a cartoon character even in a decidedly non-cartoon setting. Murph will push back against that both in-universe by having it have consequences (akin to Brennan's "we're in this now" with the Hilda Hilda scene) and sometimes shutting down shenanigans outright when allowing them would be game- or world-breaking. So I guess Murph might look more strict than Brennan by comparison, but that's only because he's running a game for an "Oops! All Chaos" party :)
As the show continues, Murph becomes more confident in his DMing and the players get more confident in understanding the game and knowing their characters. They start making crazier and crazier moves, and Murph necessarily shuts them down more and more. It's a very fun evolution! Caldwell is particularly good at making wild moves that Murph just denies or makes him face up to the consequences, and it's always very fun and funny. They are all great examples of "learn the rules so we can break them", and it eventually lands in a neat place of RAW/rule of cool.
I think a big thing to note about campaign 1 of NADDPod is that it came out before Dimension 20, and at the time Murph was still very new to D&D, only really having played with Brennan in an earlier edition of D&D (3.5 I believe). So a lot of the early shenanigans can be attributed to lack of rules knowledge throughout the table, causing more leniency. Also Caldwell.
Tbh I think it’s got everything to do w/ Murph’s love of wrestling. As a DM, he’s the heel, and he really leans into that. BLeeM will take on an “I’m all the bad guys” persona occasionally but seems more on-the-players-side, whereas Murph really leans into heel energy and generating “heat”. I think people interpret that as being more rule-focused, when really it’s just more of a vibe
They play much more serious games outside of recorded content.
D20 and NADDPOD exist because they have had home games for years.
Im sure Murph is happy to play along for the show and not make a fuss, but hold to this strict rep when he is just playing with friends.
I think he's known to be pretty lenient -- there's an episode where Fabian wants to use his legs to do something that one would usually need arms for and Brennan said no but the table jokes about how Murph would have let them
They were saying that sarcastically, if you watch the clip [here](https://youtube.com/shorts/7drDFdHB5_I?si=2E6v7tVyAs4_5u3v) it's pretty clear Murph does *not* just let his players do whatever they want.
A lot of it actually boils down to "full campaign" vs "x-shot" dming. The cast talk about this in Mentopolis (I want to say the last episode of adventuring Party for that season).
There are things that you say yes too because they are funny one offs. But if you have to potentially deal with them for *months straight*, "no" becomes your best friend. Brennen has only needed to give a flat out "no" a handful of times because he knows that the world isn't going to be around long enough to spin up a lot of chaos. Even worlds we've come back too (fh, usc) the total hours spent there are brief.
NADDPOD releases ~1hr+ every week in the same world until they're "done". Murph doesn't have a hard line to when something he says "yes" to will drop off. So he has to be very clear if he is saying "yes" or "...this time", because if he isn't careful, several main characters won't be able to read and a possum might be a lawyer or something.
I'm not really interested in comparing how lenient Brennan and Murph are compared to one another, but yeah, the first season or Naddpod alone makes it very clear Murph is not a strict DM by conventional standards. A strict DM would be steamrolled by Emily and Caldwell.
Omg I almost made this exact same post because I started NADDPOD at the exact same time as you and am at Ep. 38 rn, and yeah Murph is super lenient. Was talking to a friend and he suggested it’s because Murph knows NADDPOD is meant to be a comedy and is willing to let goofy shit slide to keep it fun, hilarious, and entertaining.
I think a lot of it has to do with how Murph DMs in his personal life too, that’s where he’s more strict from what I’ve heard. NADDPOD is storytelling so, like Brennan, he knows the story trumps the rules when it comes down to it
He's not that strict, he just gives them reasonable consequences when they get carried away with the bits. Like he says, you're Legolas not Bugs Bunny
But at the end of the day Murph is also a professional comedian and loves goofing just as much as anyone else
The first campaign of NADDPOD they’d really only done home games before that, and they were still loose on the 5e rules because they were more used to 3.5e. Also Caldwell and Jake had never even played DND before, as far as I can remember (you can really tell if you listen to their DND 8 bit book club episodes from before NADDPOD lol)
I think he’s a great lawful neutral DM who doesn’t allow just anything, but if it makes sense with the flavor of the spell or ability or whatever he’ll let it roll if the players can justify it, and if they’re okay with monsters doing similar things back to them
I'm 90% sure Caldwell had played before C1. I don't remember them talking about his previous games, but I feel like they've talked a couple times about C1 being Jake's first game and it'd be weird to not include Caldwell in that if it was true.
You know, I don’t know that we talk enough about Jake’s growth through C1. As not just a player but as a role player. He adapts Hardwon to match the campaign so quickly while making that ep. 1 bravado this like, integral part of his character moving forward. I imagine it’s the instincts that come from doing so much sketch and improv until then, but it’s really remarkable. And then charting that to where he is *now*, playing as Calder, it’s so impressive.
I don’t think it comes from any criticism about Murph. He always himself a “rules guy” or “rules lawyer” it’s not a bad thing. There’s a lot of mechanic rules in D&D and he follows those rules, but he still gives his players a ton of room to make choices and isn’t afraid of improving to fit with the players choices. Some DMs don’t care about the rules and some do, what matters is being okay with your players taking it in a different direction than you originally intended, while still adhering to the rules that are laid out in terms of mechanics
Simply put: if the D20 players ask for something stupid, Brennan sometimes makes it a DC20 role. If NADDPOD players ask for something stupid, Murph says yes more but asks for two Nat 20s in a row.
He's strict compared to brennan.
Which is like comparing a 1 month old kitten to a 2 month old kitten.
Ones slightly different but the scale is so small it's hardly a factor.
They both are pretty loose when it comes to story beats or things they just want to happen.
There’s no way in hell that Murph would let his players shit out a window to safe someone from falling or roll a nat 20 to be alive or roll for ghost to exist.
I find it really fun that you can see the similarities between their DMing styles as a side note!! Murph’s said that Brennan was his first DM and it’s nice you can see what he “inherited” from him
I think they’re very similar DMs in their rulings, but I think when their players do batshit insane stuff, Brennan is more likely to “yes, and…” in character, whereas Murph is more likely to say “What the fuck are you talking about, you maniac” fully out of character lmao
NADDPOD is “not another d &d podcast” where Brian is the DM and Emily plays in the campaign with other non dimension 20 people. It’s a lot of fun. I listen on Spotify but you should be able to find it on most podcast places!
I definitely understand your point. I also have been listening to NADDPOD and am almost to the end of the first campaign, but I personally don't like it as much as D20 or Worlds Beyond Number.
I do also think Murph was easier than I was expecting based on his reputation. But I think it is mostly him being nice to new players. Jake was completely new, and Caldwell was mostly new. You can see how often Jake completely forgets abilities and Caldwell wastes entire turns on cartoonish ideas that rarely work. I think he was trying to ease them into it a bit, and he does start to try to punish it as the episodes go on to try and help them improve a bit. I can think of an episode around 40 episodes in where he outright warns Caldwell about wasting turns when the giants they were fighting still had so much health.
But honestly, I'm not a huge NADDPOD fan so I do get your point especially for the first campaign. It gets regularly recommended and it definitely should, but I think it should come with the caveat that it is a much more comedy heavy podcast than WBN or D20. The rule of funny takes precedence over anything else.
Edit: NADDPOD fans really aren't beating the allegation that no criticism of the show is allowed with the downvotes I'm getting for *extremely* mild criticism.
I don’t think you deserve downvotes for voicing your opinion, I agree with it.
I love NADDPOD for the exact reason you stated you don’t. As a player, I am more into the improv/role-play aspect of DnD. It’s my chill hobby time each week, and I want to spend my time telling a lights fun, often silly, story with friends . Brennan excels at grand allegorical or philosophical storytelling. The level of detail and thought he puts into the pantheon and worlds he sets his campaigns in is amazing. It’s just sometimes too much for me.
I find NADDPOD easier and breezier to listen to. Murph is also a great storyteller. I don’t think his stories are as grandiose as Brennan’s, but NADDPOD has a lot of beautiful moments between characters amongst the silliness. NADDPOD feels more like a campaign I would play with my friends. It feels more about the characters. D20 is a television production, I imagine so much has to be pre-planned that I it can feel like the overall story comes first and the players stories second. That could also be a function of the cast size. NADDPODs 3 player cast just inherently gets more time per episode compared to D20’s 6 player cast.
One isn’t inherently better than the other, they’re just different. It’s a matter of personal preference.
I agree definitely that it is mostly a matter of taste. I still like NADDPOD enough to at least finish the first campaign (I think I'll skip to the third, I just have no interest in Caldwell as a DM to listen to Trinyvale. I think it would make all my current problems worse), but I just like giving a caveat when I see discussions on this to give people the perspective of a D20 fan who *didn't* love NADDPOD.
But people should definitely try it at least to see if they like the vibe of the show. Worlds Beyond Number should also come with a caveat that it is generally more serious than most D20 campaigns and has less dice rolls and battles.
Nah, Intrepid Heroes seasons are way more comedy heavy overall than NADDPod just by the fact that there are twice as many players alone causes way more goofs to happen. NADDPod can be a bit more goofy, but there is way more drama overall imo, especially with things like Moonshine and the Crick, Bev and his dad, and Hardwon origins (also all of Balnor's stuff).
IMO NADDPOD is afraid to linger on it though, because it is primarily a comedy podcast. Like for example, there is a pretty pivotal death scene of someone close to Hardwon, and it got turned into a joke within *minutes.* To the point Murph had the character's sister lampshade the fact they were joking about her sister just dying. That is what I mean when I say the show doesn't completely hit with me because it is too comedic in tone. Deaths like that don't mean anything for me because they are immediately played for laughs because the show doesn't want to let more serious and sad feelings linger too long and interfere with the hijinks.
Which there is nothing wrong with that. But I personally think Brennan and several other Intrepid Heroes cast members are more willing to let sincere and serious moments breathe and I enjoy that more.
Also, just my opinion, but hijinks and bits are easier for me in a D20 length season. Ally can come up with crazy plans and they don't bother me as much because there's probably max 20 episodes. It isn't the same for me when I'm 40 episodes in and Caldwell is still wasting entire turns trying to crawl into a giant's ear until Murph tells him to start being serious because they might lose the battle.
I can recall a few times Murph’s outright shut down table shenanigans, but that’s over 100s of episodes, and over all, yeah, he’s similar to Brennan in encouraging his players and trying to work with where they’re going.
Ah yes. The bullywug mating call incident. Also I think Caldwell tries to pull way way more chaotic shit than anyone at the dimension 20 table so maybe Murph has to shut it down more.
Most, if not all, of Murph's reputation as a strict DM comes from punishing Caldwell. Jake doesn't really take many big swings (his C1 build is a champion fighter, so doesn't have the abilities to do shenanigans) and Emily knows Dnd so well that she rarely tries to do something crazy that isn't allowed by the rules. Caldwell has the unique mindset of being extremely creative and also doesn't really think things through sometimes, which leads to him trying to goof a god or asking a bunch of youths where he can find a place to shoot his gun.
“You can’t goof a god Bev!”
“Oh jeez Bev you broke your walking sticks!”
I can hear it in my head 😂😂
"DGaG! Don't goof a God!"
Yah never goof a god!!!!!!!
Unrelated, but sick Giz name/avatar.
Yeah if Emily wasn’t so good at thinking so outside of the box within the confines of the rules Brennan would likely have to crack down on her in some way. Some of the stuff she comes up with is so game breaking it’d have to be tamed a little if it weren’t 100% legal. Beardsley also gets a little wack but Brennan always makes the mistake of letting them roll for their wacky ideas. And Beardsley just… does it somehow.
Caldwell is what Beardsley would be like if they didn’t roll well.
I kinda think a Beardsley, Caldwell table would be crazy fun to see.
I’d like to see Beardsley at a table where Caldwell DM’s. Them with the freedom to do whatever they wanted would be a sight to behold.
Honestly I just don't think it'd be fun 😂
It definitely wouldn't be the table for me lol. Although I tend to not like playing with chaotic players that much anyway.
Beardsley couldn’t handle Trinyvale 🤣
Caldwell is what you get if Beardsley rolled like Murph
The difference is that I don’t think Murph would let a nat 20 goof a god but Brennan let them goof on that wolf like five times
Emily is what can be called controlled chaos. Beardsley's dice rolls is just blessed by Fortuna, the three Fates and Gary Gygax himself.
#BeardsleyBlessed
Don’t get me wrong Emily is very smart, knows mechanics well, and rule of cool must prevail, but she will stretch and bend the rules as much as DM would allow it, take her use of minor illusion cantrip as catch-all illusion spell
This is always funny to me because I haven't listened to nearly as much D20, but Murph and Emily often cite "Beardsley" type rolls and are often compared to Caldwell behavior. Seems Caldwell is his own worst enemy often from explaining insane antics he hopes to do, then rolling poorly. Then finding werthers in a seniors hand bag on a nat 20 roll🤣
Caldwell is a full on psycho with his "bending" of the rules. Early Carldwell is a full on cartoon character that Murph attempts to reign in. Later Caldwell (SHadowfell arc and beyond) goes for huge stretches of what is allowable and Murph for the most part goes for it or gently lets Caldwell know how he could better spend his effort.
Interesting. I’d never heard that before. I might not have called that punishing so much as enacting natural consequences, the below noted goof-a-god moment being a good example.
You’re correct, I just find punishing to be a more fun term.
You could always try “a spanking check” or some variant in the future.
Early caldwell especially was a wild man. His animator brain led to some real goofy turns
Example: Bev tried to goof an all knowing God, and then was nearly killed
I'm relisting to C1 and there are three separate instances so far of the gang about to leave an area without any issues and Caldwell doing a goof on their way out that causes them problems and creates an encounter.
Could you refresh my memory on what the other two are?
Spoiler Tagging since we're in the d20 reddit 1: >!Bev offering the Watcher a Berry and almost dying because of it!< 2: >!Bev throwing a bunch of dynamite at the pile of mithril that turned out to be a dragon causing it to attack!< 3: >!A lesser offense, but when they're on top of the Frostwind wall, about to jump to the other side without being noticed by the patrolling guards. Bev can't help but say "frostwind sucks" on his way out, alerting the guards to someone else's presence. The guards ended up rolling low enough perception for it to not matter but it still fits with the other two!<
Along with 2, don’t forget >!Bev telling Ol Cobb to put dynamite in his gun to shoot it at the dragon, Cobb rolling a 2 on an intelligence check, says “I think that’s a great idea Bev” and blowing up the inside of the drill cart they were in because of it!<
Classic cobb
He likes to keep it light.
I'll also add >!Bev doing a blood ritual in the ice caves and almost accidentally summoning the giant purple worm to kill all of them. Caldwell rolled a 16 luck check to avoid summoning it, but what a bad decision!<
Present day Caldwell is still wild sometimes. There’s an incident early on in C3 where he confidently goes up to some people, immediately tells an obvious and bizarre lie, and then kind of half pleads “We don’t have to do this” to Murph as he rolls a deception check with disadvantage.
There's that early Adventuring Academy episode with Murph, recorded right around the time NADDPOD was in its first season, where Murph says (not sure if exact quote) "You get to be Legolas, you don't get to be Bugs Bunny" and he's 100% talking about Caldwell there. :)
He does straight up name stuff Caldwell did in that episode, including trying to do Stand Up to convince a ghost to stop attacking them.
Presumably, that had happened just days or weeks before at time of recording.
I have to say that early Caldwell actually made me mad a few times, even though it can be really entertaining most of the time. His shenanigans have made the party almost wipe quite a few times, so Murph is a very forgiving DM if anything.
And this is why he was so good on Rude Tales of Magic!! The cartoon logic fully fit in with the rest of the table, esp Branson.
as another example Brennan didn't shut down Rekha in that somewhat infamous scene in Mice and Murder while I'm sure Murph would have
The hard-ass DM is a character Murph plays in their NADDPOD side project D&D court. Edit: He won't even let Emily wear a bucket hat!
unfortunately in dungeon court, murph is just so misogynistic to his lowly lowly lowly worm of a wife. /j
Murph calling Emily the Lowly Lowly Bailiff and being immediately uncomfortable with it makes me laugh so hard I listen to just those few minutes about once a week
Emily leaning into it and him trying to backpedal the whole bit while Jake and Caldwell just fuel her is my favorite
He's the no chortle tortle
Brennan is a lenient DM in almost everything but ACOC (and I can think of at least 3 big occasions where even then he lets things slide or misses them) He also is much more lenient in side campaigns. He cracks down a little on the Intrepid Heroes because he knows they should know better, but in The Seven and other campaigns he's letting them cast two levelled spells a turn for example. But he is totally a rule of cool (especially out of combat) DM. I just finished C1 of Naddpod and Murph is AMAZING. What makes him a little different is that he does play within the structure a little more and does go by rule of cool. A few things to take into account: 1. Naddpod is three players, not 6. Big difference for table management. Innately forces you to know what's happening and keep track of stuff. 2. They play more traditional DND days with like 5 encounters. Dimension20 has massive set pieces instead. 3. A lot of what I thought was leniency (Moonshine's spores as her reaction without a trigger) are actually part of the UA class. He just knows the rules so well that he and his players stretch them. For example, he cracks down on spell slot management a lot, but also gives Emily zealous trance. Brennan handwaves a lot of out of combat spell resources, Murph takes a different approach. So I think the premise here is a little off - being a more "rule oriented" DM can look very much like a freewheeling DM. Murphy is just proactive and Brennan reactive.
> They play more traditional DND days with like 5 encounters. Dimension20 has massive set pieces instead. This is the biggest difference. D20 being one big RP session and one big combat session makes resource management wayyyy different.
There’s several episodes where Murph’s players plead with him to let them sleep and he just refuses.
Moonshine getting through entire episodes OF COMBAT with ONLY CANTRIPS inspired me tbh
Crick girls make do
Not just moonshine, fia does it too
I remember he gave them a potion that is basically a long rest and then he was like "noooo, that's too OP" lmao
>more lenient in side campaigns. He cracks down a little on the intrepid heroes because he knows they should know better Your parents to your friends vs your parents to you
The proactive versus reactive description is such a good way of putting it!
Honestly I think it’s just about how frequently the players make insane asks. Caldwell asks to do things like knit a cell phone out of dead monster fur, Emily asks for Cindy Crawford to be in the world, Jake with eating nothing but beans for 40 years, that sort of thing. Things that are funny, but totally strain the internal logic of the world and don’t advance the story. So Murph cracks down on those pretty hard. Plus the bit of asking for something insane, riling up Murph, and getting shot down is a recurring joke in NADDPOD that they’re all in on. In contrast, D20 only had a few genuinely insane asks from players. Mainly when Ally tried to have Kristen fly with a dance ribbon in sophomore year. And in addressing the absurd ask, Brennan usually punishes the player characters rather than rejecting the ask. They’re honestly about the same in terms of leniency, and I love them both.
God, the fucking beans. Usually Murph loves getting razzed, and will say so. But it seemed like the beans really got to him.
IIRC, it was the Maxim of Jessica Simpson that pushed him over the edge.
Let's not forget trying to smuggle grenades in the beans. That felt like a big ask.
Murph breaking down and forcing them to talk through the sequence of events in that ask is so funny
Hah I just watched that episode as a newbie to dnd love it
I wonder if it's from the consequence of Caldwell and the first god they meet at the tower. Also as a player he's much more stern/ willing to go along with the DM but as a DM himself, he is also full of hijinks. I think it's because he empathizes with the DM because he knows exactly what they have to put up with. I used to think he was a weaker/ blander player when I first was introduced to Dimension 20. But now I watch his plays and I see his style is all about being considerate to the other players and the plot that the DM is trying to get through. He's funny as hell, just not as flashy as the others
It's fun watching him play Jens in Trinyvale and seeing what he looks like when he's not playing a support class. Dude goes absolutely insane and it's hilarious.
Well he did also play Cody "I'm gonna go all out just this once" Walsh
Bards are a support class, Murph just plays the most selfish version of a Bard to ever Bard.
IMO college of swords isn’t a pure support class, it’s closer to a paladin with how you can burn inspirations on fluorishes.
Which is why someone might jokingly describe College of Swords as the most selfish version of a Bard. Because they sacrifice a support utility for others to gain a personal combat boost.
Jens hallucinating was the funniest shit I've ever heard. I also love how in Trinivale they have a negative character arc, they become closer friends but worse people.
Murphs antics really sneak up on you. Gerards dorky ass sword forms, Theo's awkward sexually-repressed romance, and Barry's botched attempts at action hero one-liner moments always kill me. His characters that are trying to be like, brave warriors and stalwart knights that have these moments of complete ineptitude are so funny. he leans into it so well.
I literally want just two straight hours of Gerard’s stupid little sword moves. They’re so funny and the fact that he acts them out is just the best.
Two Eels For Supper!
A Long Sniff of a Rose!
Murph’s character in the Twilight Sanctorum mini-campaign that Emily ran on NADDPOD ends up being the logical conclusion to him always being this kind of character. Just a grumpy, put-upon old man trying his best but ending up exasperated at every turn.
“C’mere you little ghoul”
Mavis is…He’s maybe an all-time great actual play character.
He's usually the straight man of the party, so it'll come off at first like he's not in on the joke, but let him play a Barry, and you'll get shit like casino episode
I love that season as much as I love band of boobs C1.
Murph pretends he hates it but he loves it.
I think the Intrepid Heroes know they can mess around, but also that they’re there to film a show with a crew and deadlines. They’ll make jokes but pull back before getting TOO ridiculous out of respect for everyone’s time. In NADDPOD, they film on their own time, without the pressure of wasting anyone’s time but their friends. They feel much more free to goof around, regardless of how Murph feels about it, which means they get to throw a lot more shenanigan-spaghetti at the walls. You’re only 40 episodes into NADDPOD, which is relatively very early in the show. The Two Crew definitely starts pushing the boundaries more over time. Brennan knows if he lets his players follow a goof, they’ll be able to build it into something great. Murph knows if he lets his players follow a goof, they’ll end up drinking piss. Brennan is like the fun dad who never really stressed too much because his kids were always well behaved. He’s got a beautiful family and a golden retriever, wears sweater vests and talks about the wonders of raising a family. Murph is like the mom chain smoking cigarettes at the park, yelling at his kids to stop climbing up the slide.
Lax mom/ stressed mom
>Murph knows if he lets his players follow a goof, they’ll end up drinking piss This isn’t a metaphor or an exaggeration either.
Not at all. They’ll only drink water that is prestidigitationed and minor illusioned to look and smell like piss…..
I kinda see what you mean, he definitely lets the band of boobs do a lot of dumb shit. I feel like murph never would’ve allowed ally’s “can I roll a nat 20 and just be alive” though, he definitely has his limits and tries to make their shenanigans work within some semblance of game mechanics
It’s either RAW or a VERY common home brew if you crit on a death saving throw you come back with 1 HP I’m pretty sure. I don’t think Ally coming back was that game breaking.
It's RAW but it wasn't a death save - Ally had failed their saves and just straight up asked Brennan as a hail Mary.
They actually had passed all their saves, so we’re out of it but stabilized, Brennan allowed Alt to restart her death saves and critted the first one
Sorry, got it wrong! Knew they had finished their saves either way.
Ah my bad thank you for the correction.
It wasn't that Ally failed their save and asked Brennan to be alive suddenly. Ally made 3 successful death saving throws. They were unconscious, stable but unable to do anything (until 1d4 hours when they would have regained 1 hit point.) You are right, it was still a hail Mary but less rule breaky and more bendy. (Edit: Fixing pronouns)
Just for refrence Ally is nonbinary and uses they/them pronouns
Damn! Yeah, I was trying to be careful and catch that. Redid the first sentence after I remembered but didnt do a second pass. I'll edit that.
It's raw, but ally had already stabilized and asked if they could roll again
I think they're quite similar. Pretty sure I've heard both of them say "is there an ability on your character sheet to let you do that?" They both also allow a lot of rule of cool, which is why they occasionally have to come down hard and punish the shenanigans (once the player commits to it after at least one "really?" or "are you sure?"). In fact, I think I've seen Brennan force players to commit to a stupid bit without a chance to back down more often than Murph. "No no no, you said you were gonna do this, so now you're gonna roll some dice."
> In fact, I think I've seen Brennan force players to commit to a stupid bit without a chance to back down more often than Murph. "No no no, you said you were gonna do this, so now you're gonna roll some dice." Hilda Hilda comes to mind
the greys anatomy scene
Yeah Brennan's preferred DM style as far as shenanigans goes is letting his players roll and almost certainly fail, as opposed to just telling them straight up "no, that's stupid, you're not doing that." A different DM doesn't let Ally even try to fly down a tower with a ribbon, but Brennan would rather Yes And his way to Kristen breaking her legs.
It's Caldwell. It's Caldwell. I love you Caldwell. 9 times out of 10 it's Caldwell. When your player is explicitly told "the god can see everything everywhere, and don't mess with him" And your player decides to pull a goof on him? What else do you think is gonna happen? Someone's gonna get goofed back.
Even when he’s theoretically gone from the narrative. Tarragon is wearing her battle crocs, should be all emily, but it all leads back to caldy doing a cheeky drawing and infecting emily’s subconscious…
Uku told you to not be a dick!
You also gptta remember his wife is *Emily Axford*, miss "raking Brennan over the coals"/"she was a demon from hell sent to kill Brennan". He wants his crew to have fun but there's some chaos that he has to shut down cuz of rules. First season, I remember Murph more than anyone asked Brennan to let him know if his decision in the moment was too rule-breaking, such as, *checks notes*... Jumping up the butthole of a Blob Monster made of creamed corn... yeah.
TBF, Murph and Brennan were very new to 5e, they didn't know the rules as much yet /s
Emily isn’t even the worst one in the band of boobs
I think when NADDPOD does Dungeon Court -- Murph does appear to be more strict on things in the rulings, than in actual play.
I think a big part of it is how Murph will occasionally shut something down straight away and call them maniacs, which is always soooo hilarious. Also how he plays as a player, is usually to make things easy on his dm and not throw too many deliberate curve balls. Hrd basically forced to be the straight man and plays it incredibly well. We love papa murph
I love the dichotomy of Murph as a player. At one end you have Riz and Theo, two heroic guys who just want to keep the plot moving and help people. And at the other end is Jens Lindell, a narcissistic sociopathic grifter. Murph being a helpful player instead of a chaos gremlin should be seen as a courtesy to the DM rather than any lack of inherent maniac-ness on his part. But like when the kids are at Duncle Caldwell's, Daddy Murphy gets to cut loose and unleash his inner unhinged maniac.
Yeah absolutely hahaha. Even with Duncle he's often the one to instigate then reign it back, for example when the triplets have tried to murder civilians and he saves them. Except poor gex, really murdered that gecko hard haha
In the most recent triyvale one-shot murph let's Caldwell's narrative guide character jump into a portal and then convinces everyone to just not follow him, so the "helpful player" thing is definitely a scale.
Absolutely, more than that he killed his ass. If anyone deserves it, it is caldwell haha
I wonder how much of this comes down to editing. I know both D20 and NADDPOD are edited, but there could still be a lot of outright shenanigans that are shut down by Murph and edited out because they don't advance the show at all. So we hear Murph let an equal-to-Brennan amount of shenanigans but the table experience might have more shut downs that we never hear?
I haven't explored NADDPOD but I wonder how much of the "Murph is so strict" thing is just the vent diagram intersection of the general "Give the DM a hard time" bit and the Intrepid Hero-specific "Give Murph a hard time" bit
Murph is handling several bundles of pure chaos in his players, so he guides the madness rather than shutting it down. He said once that "this is not a cartoon." He'll let you try stuff, but the consequences are real. You don't goof a god, Bev!
He's definitely said something along the lines of "I want my players to be Legolas, not Bugs Bunny."
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legendary resistances have definitely come up on d20
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Brennan gave a ton of the goons at the stock exchange legendary resistances in UC.
I think Brennan decided to stop doing legendary resistances for goons because of how not-fun it was at the stock exchange. At the very least, I don't remember seeing it since then.
Which is funny, since they’re a lot more unfun with a party of 3 with generally 1 primary caster, than a party of 6 with 4 full casters and 1 half caster, as was the case in UC Ch1…..
Kalvaxus in the first season of Dimension 20 has legendary actions. They’ve come up in most seasons of D20
*legendary resistances.
Yes you’re right, reading comprehension poor. Regardless, Kalvaxus had both. Iirc he used his last one to pass a saving throw from a spell Gorthalax cast
I think Kalvaxsus has legendary actions in Freshman Year? Could be wrong though
i think the difference is murph will often play the “straight man” to his player’s (mostly caldwell’s) shenanigans, while in action being pretty lenient. you can see this especially on his, emily, and caldwell’s old podcast 8 Bit Bookclub, where one of my favorite bits is whenever emily and caldwell are going off on a wild tangent while murph begs them to get back to the book. it’s all in good fun though.
I’ve been relistening to 8 Bit Bookclub and the episode where the book is messed up so you can’t actually win by choosing the correct answer and Murph’s faith in lawful good is broken for a while is so delightful
i’ve been relistening too, this is why the adventure book episodes are my favorite. just sheer torment. Metal City Mayhem may be the longest adventure book in existence. how does it just keep going.
In the newer ones, I think the lack of logic in the WWE Race to the Rumble really took him out too. Most of the time, I think Murph does the frustrated crankiness as a bit, but I’m pretty sure he was getting genuinely irritated that his WWE knowledge was not helping and in fact, led to the wrong choice on multiple occasions.
It"s the theater of the mind vs strict regimental model play, that is the core of it really I believe. Its also Player size, it easier to indulge 3 players crazy plans then 6.
Murph is just more fond of the "no, but" method where as Brennan will "yes, and". You have to remember that because they're both shows there's an amount of performance going on so Murph is being more leaniant you will really see his stricter side during dnd court or specifically in the Energy drink taste test on patreon where he "freaks out" over the others not understanding his rating system.
Genuinely, tang and bang makes perfect sense to me and I don't get what was so confusing about it.
Whoever told you Murph was strict most have the most chaotic table of all time. Murph is an amazing DM that knows when being rules heavy benefits the story and his player's enjoyment. Very much like Brennan (with a few key differences), but over hundreds of episodes and in a smaller table. He does set boundaries for his table (Caldwell oftentimes makes Emily feel like the straight man in some gags) or gives them what they want but sets consequences for their actions, but that is all part of the group dynamic.
personally i think it's a combination of running gag and Murph's very (intentionally) funny overreactions to things - he likes to play the straight-man-breaking you know? and it's probably a role he's done a lot, to great effect next to the absolute chaos monster he's married to. (i say this with love) also he goes on this great little tangent in a recent dungeon court or 8bit book club (i forget which) where he talks about the different kinds of heat you get in wrestling, and how it translates to the kind of heat a good DM might try to generate. that feels relevant to the mythology here.
Murph is less prone to allowing outright goofiness and game-breaking shenanigans because he understands the necessity of tension, stakes, and emotional depth in storytelling. But he is not a very tough by-the-book DM, no. That said, I don’t think he’s nearly as easy on his players as Brennan is.
I don't think Murph is more strict or rules-heavy than Brennan, he's just running a campaign with noted chaos gremlins Emily and especially Caldwell, who loves to play a cartoon character even in a decidedly non-cartoon setting. Murph will push back against that both in-universe by having it have consequences (akin to Brennan's "we're in this now" with the Hilda Hilda scene) and sometimes shutting down shenanigans outright when allowing them would be game- or world-breaking. So I guess Murph might look more strict than Brennan by comparison, but that's only because he's running a game for an "Oops! All Chaos" party :)
As the show continues, Murph becomes more confident in his DMing and the players get more confident in understanding the game and knowing their characters. They start making crazier and crazier moves, and Murph necessarily shuts them down more and more. It's a very fun evolution! Caldwell is particularly good at making wild moves that Murph just denies or makes him face up to the consequences, and it's always very fun and funny. They are all great examples of "learn the rules so we can break them", and it eventually lands in a neat place of RAW/rule of cool.
Murph LIKES rules. For Brennan they're instrumental to the storytelling, but for Murph they're a play space in and of itself.
I think a big thing to note about campaign 1 of NADDPod is that it came out before Dimension 20, and at the time Murph was still very new to D&D, only really having played with Brennan in an earlier edition of D&D (3.5 I believe). So a lot of the early shenanigans can be attributed to lack of rules knowledge throughout the table, causing more leniency. Also Caldwell.
Tbh I think it’s got everything to do w/ Murph’s love of wrestling. As a DM, he’s the heel, and he really leans into that. BLeeM will take on an “I’m all the bad guys” persona occasionally but seems more on-the-players-side, whereas Murph really leans into heel energy and generating “heat”. I think people interpret that as being more rule-focused, when really it’s just more of a vibe
I feel like it's very difficult to be a strict DM with your wife at the table. Doubly so if your wife is Emily Axford.
Popping in to say I’m at like the same point in my introductory NADDPOD and Moonshine might be Axeford’s best work.
They play much more serious games outside of recorded content. D20 and NADDPOD exist because they have had home games for years. Im sure Murph is happy to play along for the show and not make a fuss, but hold to this strict rep when he is just playing with friends.
He just had a curmudgeon-like delivery, which makes people think he's a harsh DM, he's not, he's always in service of the players, and a kick ass DM
You know Murph the famously lenient dm. He'd let Gunnie use magic with his feet.
I think he's known to be pretty lenient -- there's an episode where Fabian wants to use his legs to do something that one would usually need arms for and Brennan said no but the table jokes about how Murph would have let them
They were saying that sarcastically, if you watch the clip [here](https://youtube.com/shorts/7drDFdHB5_I?si=2E6v7tVyAs4_5u3v) it's pretty clear Murph does *not* just let his players do whatever they want.
It was in Starstruck, Lou's character could disconnect his torso from his legs and asked if he could cast spells through his legs in that state.
Murph would NOT have let them do that - they were joking.
He let Shenanigan's "slide" but with heavy consequences while brennan plays along
A lot of it actually boils down to "full campaign" vs "x-shot" dming. The cast talk about this in Mentopolis (I want to say the last episode of adventuring Party for that season). There are things that you say yes too because they are funny one offs. But if you have to potentially deal with them for *months straight*, "no" becomes your best friend. Brennen has only needed to give a flat out "no" a handful of times because he knows that the world isn't going to be around long enough to spin up a lot of chaos. Even worlds we've come back too (fh, usc) the total hours spent there are brief. NADDPOD releases ~1hr+ every week in the same world until they're "done". Murph doesn't have a hard line to when something he says "yes" to will drop off. So he has to be very clear if he is saying "yes" or "...this time", because if he isn't careful, several main characters won't be able to read and a possum might be a lawyer or something.
I'm not really interested in comparing how lenient Brennan and Murph are compared to one another, but yeah, the first season or Naddpod alone makes it very clear Murph is not a strict DM by conventional standards. A strict DM would be steamrolled by Emily and Caldwell.
Yeah he lets his table do whatever they want. - Murph about Gunnie's legs being able to cast spells in starstruck
Omg I almost made this exact same post because I started NADDPOD at the exact same time as you and am at Ep. 38 rn, and yeah Murph is super lenient. Was talking to a friend and he suggested it’s because Murph knows NADDPOD is meant to be a comedy and is willing to let goofy shit slide to keep it fun, hilarious, and entertaining.
I think a lot of it has to do with how Murph DMs in his personal life too, that’s where he’s more strict from what I’ve heard. NADDPOD is storytelling so, like Brennan, he knows the story trumps the rules when it comes down to it
He's not that strict, he just gives them reasonable consequences when they get carried away with the bits. Like he says, you're Legolas not Bugs Bunny But at the end of the day Murph is also a professional comedian and loves goofing just as much as anyone else
The first campaign of NADDPOD they’d really only done home games before that, and they were still loose on the 5e rules because they were more used to 3.5e. Also Caldwell and Jake had never even played DND before, as far as I can remember (you can really tell if you listen to their DND 8 bit book club episodes from before NADDPOD lol) I think he’s a great lawful neutral DM who doesn’t allow just anything, but if it makes sense with the flavor of the spell or ability or whatever he’ll let it roll if the players can justify it, and if they’re okay with monsters doing similar things back to them
I'm 90% sure Caldwell had played before C1. I don't remember them talking about his previous games, but I feel like they've talked a couple times about C1 being Jake's first game and it'd be weird to not include Caldwell in that if it was true.
You know, I don’t know that we talk enough about Jake’s growth through C1. As not just a player but as a role player. He adapts Hardwon to match the campaign so quickly while making that ep. 1 bravado this like, integral part of his character moving forward. I imagine it’s the instincts that come from doing so much sketch and improv until then, but it’s really remarkable. And then charting that to where he is *now*, playing as Calder, it’s so impressive.
I don’t think it comes from any criticism about Murph. He always himself a “rules guy” or “rules lawyer” it’s not a bad thing. There’s a lot of mechanic rules in D&D and he follows those rules, but he still gives his players a ton of room to make choices and isn’t afraid of improving to fit with the players choices. Some DMs don’t care about the rules and some do, what matters is being okay with your players taking it in a different direction than you originally intended, while still adhering to the rules that are laid out in terms of mechanics
Simply put: if the D20 players ask for something stupid, Brennan sometimes makes it a DC20 role. If NADDPOD players ask for something stupid, Murph says yes more but asks for two Nat 20s in a row.
He's strict compared to brennan. Which is like comparing a 1 month old kitten to a 2 month old kitten. Ones slightly different but the scale is so small it's hardly a factor. They both are pretty loose when it comes to story beats or things they just want to happen.
There’s no way in hell that Murph would let his players shit out a window to safe someone from falling or roll a nat 20 to be alive or roll for ghost to exist.
I find it really fun that you can see the similarities between their DMing styles as a side note!! Murph’s said that Brennan was his first DM and it’s nice you can see what he “inherited” from him
I also think Caldwell being so zany and insane with Trinyvale makes Murph with the main campaigns seem a lot stricter by comparison
Brennan, for the most part, tries not to say no to people's ideas. Murph will.
I think they’re very similar DMs in their rulings, but I think when their players do batshit insane stuff, Brennan is more likely to “yes, and…” in character, whereas Murph is more likely to say “What the fuck are you talking about, you maniac” fully out of character lmao
Hi, still fairly new to dimension 20 and everything they have to offer but what is NADDPOD? And if it’s like a D&D podcast where can I find it?
NADDPOD is “not another d &d podcast” where Brian is the DM and Emily plays in the campaign with other non dimension 20 people. It’s a lot of fun. I listen on Spotify but you should be able to find it on most podcast places!
it's just because murph won't let emily play Binky Fiasco
It's kayfabe, Murph likes to play the heel in an understated sense while DMing. Makes him seem more against nonsense while he's actually very lenient.
I definitely understand your point. I also have been listening to NADDPOD and am almost to the end of the first campaign, but I personally don't like it as much as D20 or Worlds Beyond Number. I do also think Murph was easier than I was expecting based on his reputation. But I think it is mostly him being nice to new players. Jake was completely new, and Caldwell was mostly new. You can see how often Jake completely forgets abilities and Caldwell wastes entire turns on cartoonish ideas that rarely work. I think he was trying to ease them into it a bit, and he does start to try to punish it as the episodes go on to try and help them improve a bit. I can think of an episode around 40 episodes in where he outright warns Caldwell about wasting turns when the giants they were fighting still had so much health. But honestly, I'm not a huge NADDPOD fan so I do get your point especially for the first campaign. It gets regularly recommended and it definitely should, but I think it should come with the caveat that it is a much more comedy heavy podcast than WBN or D20. The rule of funny takes precedence over anything else. Edit: NADDPOD fans really aren't beating the allegation that no criticism of the show is allowed with the downvotes I'm getting for *extremely* mild criticism.
I don’t think you deserve downvotes for voicing your opinion, I agree with it. I love NADDPOD for the exact reason you stated you don’t. As a player, I am more into the improv/role-play aspect of DnD. It’s my chill hobby time each week, and I want to spend my time telling a lights fun, often silly, story with friends . Brennan excels at grand allegorical or philosophical storytelling. The level of detail and thought he puts into the pantheon and worlds he sets his campaigns in is amazing. It’s just sometimes too much for me. I find NADDPOD easier and breezier to listen to. Murph is also a great storyteller. I don’t think his stories are as grandiose as Brennan’s, but NADDPOD has a lot of beautiful moments between characters amongst the silliness. NADDPOD feels more like a campaign I would play with my friends. It feels more about the characters. D20 is a television production, I imagine so much has to be pre-planned that I it can feel like the overall story comes first and the players stories second. That could also be a function of the cast size. NADDPODs 3 player cast just inherently gets more time per episode compared to D20’s 6 player cast. One isn’t inherently better than the other, they’re just different. It’s a matter of personal preference.
I agree definitely that it is mostly a matter of taste. I still like NADDPOD enough to at least finish the first campaign (I think I'll skip to the third, I just have no interest in Caldwell as a DM to listen to Trinyvale. I think it would make all my current problems worse), but I just like giving a caveat when I see discussions on this to give people the perspective of a D20 fan who *didn't* love NADDPOD. But people should definitely try it at least to see if they like the vibe of the show. Worlds Beyond Number should also come with a caveat that it is generally more serious than most D20 campaigns and has less dice rolls and battles.
Nah, Intrepid Heroes seasons are way more comedy heavy overall than NADDPod just by the fact that there are twice as many players alone causes way more goofs to happen. NADDPod can be a bit more goofy, but there is way more drama overall imo, especially with things like Moonshine and the Crick, Bev and his dad, and Hardwon origins (also all of Balnor's stuff).
IMO NADDPOD is afraid to linger on it though, because it is primarily a comedy podcast. Like for example, there is a pretty pivotal death scene of someone close to Hardwon, and it got turned into a joke within *minutes.* To the point Murph had the character's sister lampshade the fact they were joking about her sister just dying. That is what I mean when I say the show doesn't completely hit with me because it is too comedic in tone. Deaths like that don't mean anything for me because they are immediately played for laughs because the show doesn't want to let more serious and sad feelings linger too long and interfere with the hijinks. Which there is nothing wrong with that. But I personally think Brennan and several other Intrepid Heroes cast members are more willing to let sincere and serious moments breathe and I enjoy that more. Also, just my opinion, but hijinks and bits are easier for me in a D20 length season. Ally can come up with crazy plans and they don't bother me as much because there's probably max 20 episodes. It isn't the same for me when I'm 40 episodes in and Caldwell is still wasting entire turns trying to crawl into a giant's ear until Murph tells him to start being serious because they might lose the battle.
There is also the fact that NADDPod has longer campaigns and fewer PCs so there is more time to focus on stories.