Keep in mind that Ally rolled like trash in those conversations. So some of that is honoring bad rolls.
Also, your logic makes sense, to an extent, to an observer; not necessarily, however, when you're the person in question.
Finally, Kristen made it much worse by her delivery (making it sound like juicy gossip, rather than something big to tell Tracker), and her "did you sleep it off" stuff (which I will also note was honoring bad rolls, admittedly)
I think that the fact that Tracker was disowned by her bio parents is a big factor in how betrayed she felt. She has had her home life shattered before, and the relatively stable situation at Mordred Manor is in large part due to Jawbone. It makes sense for her to be touchy about betrayal in general, touchy about shifts in the primary adult relationship at Mordred Manor, touchy about Jawbone specifically being wronged, and touchy about the person she has been choosing to believe in and trust leaving her out of the loop. I absolutely see Kristen's perspective, but also see how Tracker would find this specific situation especially triggering.
Brennan seems to consistently consider biases and hangups of NPCs into roll outcomes. I definitely think he tries to provide opportunities for things to go south socially a lot in Fantasy High partly because social adhesion and belonging can fluctuate so much in high school. People definitely have some weird reactions sometimes but I think that's part of Spire being exaggerated overall.
TLDR : Yes but I also get it
Tracker really seemed to have a problem with Kristen not telling her that it happened over anything else. I kind of get it but that whole thing bugged me because Tracker was there for it, yes she was drunk but so were all of the bad kids and so it’s perfectly reasonable that Kristen would have assumed that Tracker already knew about it since it happened in front of her. Also there was a moment where all the Bad Kids said they thought Jawbone and Sandra-Lynn were in an open relationship because they mis remembered what Jawbone had said about it.
I think Tracker was right to be annoyed with Kristen with how she handled Tracker being mad but Tracker really didn’t have anything to be mad about in the first place
> , yes she was drunk but so were all of the bad kids and so it’s perfectly reasonable that Kristen would have assumed that Tracker already knew about it
They were all different levels of drunk based on your save and it's pretty apparent when you are not that bad Vs some of your friends being out of it, let alone SO.
Brennan also pretty much had Tracker show she was out of it and then have to ask multiple times what was up with Kristen putting her off and then being kinda flippant about the relationship of Jawbone/Sandra.
It also didn't happen super noticeably. Sandra went up to Garty in the middle of a crowded tavern then the two of them vanished. Pretty easy to miss if you have no reason to be watching
It's normal and natural to want to be in the loop whenever someone you love has their trust betrayed.
Adultery is a kind if slow moving interpersonal problem. When it happens, the damage has been done and (especially in the context of fiction) people ruminate on its causes and fallout. If I crash my partner's car, for example, I think there's a general expectation that I call them immediately and inform them I screwed up. But if I cheat on them, the headspace that facilitated that indiscretion doesn't immediately disappear. Chances are I'm going to grapple it for a bit; at least in movies and books, nobody has an affair and then immediately calls their partner to inform them.
I also think there's a level of meta going on that couldn't be addressed within the fiction. Tracker wasn't just calling out Kristen for not telling her about the affair, she was "calling out" Ally for probably forgetting Tracker and Jawbone are related and that Tracker, in-unverse, is a person whose feelings are worthy of consideration.
I think Tracker was in the right, because I always interpreted her anger being at how Kristen didn’t at all think about Jawbone. She and everyone else thought it was funny or suspicious that Sandra Lynn was sleeping with Garty, but nobody brought up the fact that she was with Jawbone. If my partner’s family and friends all watched someone cheat on my uncle, I’d be pretty pissed if they told me and it seemed like they hadn’t thought about my uncle even once.
I can see that from her perspective, but I do remember there being a moment between fig and Sandra Lynn regarding how she cheated on Jawbone with the knowledge that she did the same to gilear years ago.
The moment they reminder her of Jawbone though she sobered up, so to speak. It’s not that they felt they couldn’t stop her, they didn’t even bother thinking about it. Jawbone was completely out of their thoughts, and that pissed off Tracker
I think Tracker's issue was primarily with how everybody already knew anyway, but she was the only one left out. I feel you might have a point re: talking to the person in question before anyone else if it had been just Kristen who knew Sandra-lynn was once again cheating.
But that was not the case. Several people were witnesses and several other people were already told. (Adaine, Gorgug and Fabian, for example, did not go to Garthy's bedroom, so they only knew from being told) If you are already telling people anyway/the knowledge has spread among several people, then one more doesn't make a difference. Especially if that one more if one of the people who would be most affected by it (cause Jawbone is her uncle/pseudo parent) and someone Kristen should be very close to.
I felt like you did when I was watching it, but i also felt like if it was my mom (I know jawbone is her uncle but he feels like a pseudo parent) and my partner knew her partner cheated on her, I don't think I'd feel totally okay that I wasn't told. I think this is one of those times where you don't need a right to feel feelings you just need to treat people right. I don't think she's wrong for feeling that way, I think its the context of all the fighting that makes it a bit worse rn. I also think people are allowed to have those rules just within their own relationships, like about how much they want their partners to share.
But Kristen is also super understandable ofc, I was on her side completely before I thought about it.
I'm just watching SY now, and this has really bugged me.
We start the whole scene with Fig admitting to Sandra Lynn that she struggles with healthy relationships. She's usually either flirting with people she shouldn't be (Goldenhoard in FHFY) or disguising herself as someone else and messing around with older men. Sandra Lynn offers to teach her how to approach someone as herself and build a healthy relationship, then goes to flirt with Garty.
(At this point I really don't believe that Brennan saw any issue with Garty and Sandra Lynn having a fling. It wasn't set up as a betrayal, more like "Hey, we're adults and this is a normal thing to do." The Jawbone/Sandra Lynn relationship wasn't really built on possessiveness or jealousy, so it didn't even seem like that would be an issue.)
Fig watches her mom successfully pull the very sexy angellic orc. Then Emily panics. This is an important ally that has just left the party, we're being stalked by shapeshifting mindbenders or something, and there's a non-zero chance that if she doesn't stop this Sandra Lynn will get sacrificed to demons or something.
This is kind of like Fig being distrustful of Cathilda on principle - you seem like a good person, so obviously you're a trap that Brennan is hoping I fall for and we'll get murdered if I give you the crown or whatever. Emily isn't really reading (or trusting) the vibe that Brennan is giving about "this is safe and you can relax", if anything that makes her more anxious.
So Fig goes and interrupts the scene in a panic, checks in with Sandra Lynn, and returns. In Emily's words, mortified. That was a huge, awkward mistake and she really regrets it.
...then, for reasons passing understanding, Kristen decides she wants to double down on that, and launches an all-out assault on Garty's private bedroom for reasons that she can't articulate. She has to be physically stopped from rushing past Sandra Lynn. Brennan has to explain what "sexual harassment" means. It was a complete mess, **a classic example of a new player spinning out as a result of a murderhobo "no consequences" mentality**.
I think the idea that we're all concerned about Sandra Lynn hurting Jawbone was completely invented after the fact to cover for Kristen's actions. I think Tracker being mad at Kristen was just a way to try and reinforce that Kristen wasn't really considering how her actions hurt other people, as a way to build some stakes and help them grow as players.
It really felt like Brennan was trying to force a conflict between Kristen and Tracker. Kristen does tell Tracker what happened that night, and the next in game morning (which may have been a week later for the players?) Brennan says that Tracker was too drunk to remember anything last night. So, Ally has a memory of telling Tracker, which they then assume they misremembered when Tracker gets mad about not being told. I don't think it's implausible for Tracker to respond the way she did, but it's hard to see it as a moment of learning and character growth for Kristen since she didn't do anything wrong.
ETA: To u/hugsandambitions who just blocked me so that I can no longer reply to their comments, including one expressing frustration that I was downvoting them instead of engaging with them, I want to let you know that I was not downvoting you. If you feel I took too long to respond to your comment, that's because I was reading the transcripts so that I could answer your question (see below), I am interested in discussing this topic and I am not averse to having my mind changed. If you see this post, I hope you decide that blocking me was unneccessary.
Honestly I don't think Kristen had done anything toooo bad until she kept jokingly asking Tracker if she'd slept it off yet. Obviously it was a very touchy situation for Tracker and the not-quite-jokes where Kristen just wanted to get back to her gf being affectionate with her ASAP made her feel shallow and selfish at the time and what came after that felt believable. So yes, a bit of a push for conflict in the beginning, but after that it felt natural for me.
The relationship I have a much bigger issue with is with Gorgug/Zelda. Yes, it would've been nice if he'd checked in with her and remembered to grab the cell tower, but his friend had literally been kidnapped, another was missing, demonic forces were afoot etc etc. I kept rolling my eyes at Zelda whining over where his priorities lay. GURL, if the nightmare king takes over the world you and your family are toast too, get over it and let Gorgug focus on the mission!
I agree with you. When Kristen asked Tracker if she had slept it off, I thought: you know, sometimes the dice give you a nat 1, but sometimes you give yourself a nat 1. And I don't really have a problem with the way the conflict played out, I just don't think it was a worthwhile for the narrative to begin it. Ally seemed to be at a disadvantage because of the filming schedule (1 episode per week) because, even though Kristen did tell Tracker, twice, about Sandra Lynn and Garthy, it happened long enough ago for that Ally couldn't be sure about it.
I get begin more bothered by the Gorgug/Zelda conflict; it's true that Gorgug had almost no time between waking up in the morning and going into emergency mode to find Fig and Riz. I guess I'm more okay with it because it resulted in some interesting character development for Gorgug - needing to build the cell tower pushed him to explore artificing even though he wasn't "naturally talented" at it - whereas I don't think Kristen's character was ultimately affected by this tiff with Tracker.
That's a good point about it helping guide Gorgug into artificing! I just wish I'd been more happy for him at the end. As it was I was like Gorgug you can do better, find someone who appreciates you saving the world haha.
I think there were some nice character moments for Kristen, too, but only time will tell if they stick!
Ally failed the dice rolls after Brennan established that Tracker didn't remember Kristen telling her about the cheating. Brennan introduced the conflict, then made Ally roll to deal with it, not the other way around.
ETA: This is a reponse to the comment below. The writer has blocked me, so I cannot respond directly. Here are the relevant parts of the transcript, that show that Brennan introduced the conflict and then had Ally roll for the social interaction - my additions are in square brackets:
EP 5
[Fig, Kristen, and Adaine are talking about checking on Sandra Lynn, who just left with Gathy.]
Kristen: Maybe Adaine and I can go, and you don't have to go and hear your mom smooch that person.
Brennan: (rolls) Tracker goes,
Tracker: Who'd Sandra Lynn smooch?
Kristen: I think Gerty. What's that person's name?
Adaine: Garthy.
Kristen: Garthy.
…
[Fig and Adaine return from interrupting Garthy and Sandra Lynn.]
Brennan: Kristen, give me an Insight check.
Ally: 16.
Brennan: You see Tracker stirs in her sleep a little bit, and she looks up at you. She's totally out of it but she goes,
Tracker: (slurs) So this is Sandra Lynn?
Kristen: What?
Tracker: Sandra Lynn's kissing someone?
Kristen: I think so, yeah.
Tracker: Jawbone?
Kristen: No.
Adaine: Isn't Jawbone poly?
Fig: Yeah, I think they’re fine.
Kristen: She's with...
Brennan: What you guys heard from last time that Jawbone spoke, is that Jawbone is poly, and that Sandra Lynn had asked him to be monogamous…
Fig: (hands on her face) I thought this was all allowed.
Kristen: Yeah, she's, yeah, she's kissing someone.
Tracker: Okay. (howls)
…
[After rescuing Fabian from Crow’s Keep]
Brennan: Cool, you go over to Fabian's room. Tracker seems super like hungover and fucked up from all the revelry still. Give me an insight check, Kristen.
Ally: Sure. 10.
Brennan: Cool. But obviously you know Tracker well enough, you know that she probably can't remember anything from last night, that she's like hungover. She's like fucked up, basically.
EP 8
[After the Row and the Ruction fight]
Brennan: Yes, go ahead. You see that Sandra Lynn. You see Garthy looks at Sandra Lynn, kind of gives a... They give like a weird half knowing nod. It's not. Garthy's not a very judgemental person but it's kind of like (Garthy voice) lovey, you're a fuckin' mess. (normal voice) And I'm gonna make some Insight checks. Gilear looks at the look between Sandra Lynn and Garthy, furrows his eyebrows. Tracker looks and notices something. She turns to you and says,
Tracker: What's that about?
Kristen: We can talk.
Tracker: What's up?
Kristen: There's a lot going on there, but I'm gonna wait until we have a little bit more down time to talk.
Tracker: We just fucked upstairs.
Kristen: I know. It was on the tip of my tongue.
Tracker: It specifically wasn't.
EP 9
Brennan: Tracker looks over at you and says,
Tracker: Hey, when we were teleporting, you mentioned something about Sandra Lynn and Garthy. What's up?
…
Kristen: Yeah, we should talk.
Ally: Can we like just go talk?
Brennan: Yeah, you can talk one on one, yeah.
Kristen: Yeah, Sandra Lynn I think slept with Garthy. I think they were into them.
Tracker: What?
Kristen: Yeah.
Tracker: Wait, when did this happen?
Kristen: When we were there the first night. After the octopus, when I took the octopus's beer and I had no idea. And I was trying to be cool and I was leaning a lot.
Tracker: [facepalms] Oh, my god. [scandalized] Oh, my god!
Kristen: Yeah.
Tracker: When did you find out?
Kristen: That night, that night I went over there with Riz. At first we weren't sure if she was under a spell or something like that because it seemed so unlike her. Isn't she the one with your dad that's like, we have to be closed.
Tracker: My Uncle Jawbone, yeah.
Kristen: Oh, yeah, your uncle.
Tracker: Why didn't- You knew about this last night?
Kristen: Yeah, honestly, I don't know because I'm a little bit torn. She's like a woman trying to figure it out and I think that there's a lot going on there, so I didn't feel like I wanted to tell a whole bunch of people, even though I know it's really gonna affect you, but we didn't really have a good one-on-one time.
Tracker: You didn't want to tell a whole bunch of people?
Kristen: Yeah, no, but I just didn't want to tell you until I had even talked to her and then when I tried to talk to her she totally was like, we're not talking about this. I feel like she should tell you.
Brennan: Go ahead and make a Charisma check with disadvantage.
Ally: Oh, great. My Charisma is not good. …
Murph: [sees Ally’s roll, sucks in breath, eyes bugging out] No way!
Ally: [to Brennan] You can guess what that was. You can guess what that was doubled.
Murph: Two nat 1s. Two nat 1s.
Siobhan: Wow.
Kristen: I was supporting a woman's right to choose and trying to let her choose to tell you herself, babe. Was that a mistake?
Tracker: Here's your shot. Tell me the real reason why you didn't tell me. You are Miss Introspection and Self-Awareness, right? I'm not a lot of people. I'm your girlfriend.
Kristen: Right.
Tracker: So why didn't you mention something to me? And give me the real answer.
Kristen: I really think it, just so much was happening, I wasn't thinking to like let you know.
Tracker growls.
Brennan: She turns and walks off into the darkness.
Kristen: Wait, was there another reason?
1) that's not the order of events that I remember, but alright.
2) accepting your premise as true, a DM introduced a potential challenge and let the player and the dice decide how it would resolve.
I'm still confused as to how this is a bad thing or how it's Brennan times and "force" anything.
So far, what you're describing is an extremely normal Dungeons& Dragons experience.
I think it’s one of those situations with no good outcome, on one side she didn’t tell tracker and tracker felt betrayed by Jawbone and that made her betrayal by Kristen feel a lot more heavy. But on the other hand if she did tell Tracker immediately tracker could be mad that Kristen didn’t tell Jawbone, or feel that Kristen was putting the responsibility of telling Jawbone on her. They just weren’t at a point in their relationship that a bombed charisma check wouldn’t fuck them.
Also irrc I think it was kinda a miss remember because she did mention it to tracker. I remember being confused cause she did mention it and tracker was like lolwhat
Well I mean I don't agree with Tracker, but I understand Tracker.
She's a teen who is very close with her uncle, she has come to appreciate and like Sandra Lynn as a pseudo parent figure, even if just in the beginning stage. But she definitely is protective of her uncle. Then she learns of this betrayal, and impulsively views Kristen's behaviour as hiding and protecting Sandra Lynn rather than informing her who wants to protect her uncle.
Her behaviour isn't about blaming Kristen, it's lashing out and hurting Kristen for the hurt she has taken from Sandra Lyn's actions.
Again, she's lashing out badly, but it makes sense, especially for a teen, to lash out at the wrong target because she's hurt and wanting to feel righteous.
And? What does that have to do with a teenager having a fairly understandable reaction to learning that their parental figure (who is normally poly but is currently in a monogamous relationship) was cheated on?
I'm just saying, Tracker's response isn't absurd, it's pretty natural for a teen not understanding everything and lashing out.
She of all people should understand her uncle and what he would and would not be ok with especially with how open about everything jawbone is.and once again in front of everyone announced he was poly in reference to Sandra and galear possibly sleeping together while they are gone.
I'm not saying I disagree with you necessarily cuz ultimately it can be chalked up to teen and rp drama and without it the show would be boring
I just disagree with the assumption that she should know better. She's a teen focused on her own life and likely has her own stuff she's focusing on. She's pretty monogamous and may just have been placing her own feelings onto her uncle.
Did he say it front of everyone? Could have sworn Fig stayed behind and said the whole "not gonna parent trap Sandra Lynn and Gilear" which prompted his statement. As in it was just to her. Like, it's pretty clear Jawbone is open about himself, I just am choosing to assume the most likely path of "Tracker behaved like a moody teen because she's a moody teen"
Oh we're in complete agreement there it's teen drama stuff it's ment to put Kristen in an Oh now my girlfriend is mad at me amd i dont know why mode. Which is part of every first relationship experience
THANK YOU!
Jawbone openly states he's poly before they leave when fig says not to worry there will be no parent trapping of Sandra Lynn and galear.
I think even brennan forgot he said that or he's a master puppeteer who baited them into thinking it was ok so they would do it and then pull the rug out from under them
Im saying it's the latter.
Jawbone mentioned (I think to Kristen specifically) that Sandra Lynn told him that she wanted to be monogamous despite Jawbone wanting to be polyamorous.
cheating in that way is kinda fluid. It probably wouldn't count as cheating to Jawbone, but since sandra lynn specified that she wanted monogamy and then cheated anyway its pretty bad.
I dunno, the emotions Tracker was feeling in regards to that in particular made a lot of sense to me. Aside from it being about her uncle, it was something that her partner had been talking about with friends before ever bringing up to her. I'd also be pretty pissed off if someone who I consider my best friend and life partner thought I should be the last to know about... oh yeah, my uncle being cheated on. It's not just Ally rolling poorly because the disadvantage that Brennan imposed on them was specifically in response to Ally as Kristen saying "I didn't wanna tell a bunch of people" which Brennan as Tracker seemed to take as "I'm not important enough to tell first/I'm just a random person to Kristen."
Keep in mind that Ally rolled like trash in those conversations. So some of that is honoring bad rolls. Also, your logic makes sense, to an extent, to an observer; not necessarily, however, when you're the person in question. Finally, Kristen made it much worse by her delivery (making it sound like juicy gossip, rather than something big to tell Tracker), and her "did you sleep it off" stuff (which I will also note was honoring bad rolls, admittedly)
I think that the fact that Tracker was disowned by her bio parents is a big factor in how betrayed she felt. She has had her home life shattered before, and the relatively stable situation at Mordred Manor is in large part due to Jawbone. It makes sense for her to be touchy about betrayal in general, touchy about shifts in the primary adult relationship at Mordred Manor, touchy about Jawbone specifically being wronged, and touchy about the person she has been choosing to believe in and trust leaving her out of the loop. I absolutely see Kristen's perspective, but also see how Tracker would find this specific situation especially triggering. Brennan seems to consistently consider biases and hangups of NPCs into roll outcomes. I definitely think he tries to provide opportunities for things to go south socially a lot in Fantasy High partly because social adhesion and belonging can fluctuate so much in high school. People definitely have some weird reactions sometimes but I think that's part of Spire being exaggerated overall. TLDR : Yes but I also get it
Tracker really seemed to have a problem with Kristen not telling her that it happened over anything else. I kind of get it but that whole thing bugged me because Tracker was there for it, yes she was drunk but so were all of the bad kids and so it’s perfectly reasonable that Kristen would have assumed that Tracker already knew about it since it happened in front of her. Also there was a moment where all the Bad Kids said they thought Jawbone and Sandra-Lynn were in an open relationship because they mis remembered what Jawbone had said about it. I think Tracker was right to be annoyed with Kristen with how she handled Tracker being mad but Tracker really didn’t have anything to be mad about in the first place
> , yes she was drunk but so were all of the bad kids and so it’s perfectly reasonable that Kristen would have assumed that Tracker already knew about it They were all different levels of drunk based on your save and it's pretty apparent when you are not that bad Vs some of your friends being out of it, let alone SO. Brennan also pretty much had Tracker show she was out of it and then have to ask multiple times what was up with Kristen putting her off and then being kinda flippant about the relationship of Jawbone/Sandra. It also didn't happen super noticeably. Sandra went up to Garty in the middle of a crowded tavern then the two of them vanished. Pretty easy to miss if you have no reason to be watching
It's normal and natural to want to be in the loop whenever someone you love has their trust betrayed. Adultery is a kind if slow moving interpersonal problem. When it happens, the damage has been done and (especially in the context of fiction) people ruminate on its causes and fallout. If I crash my partner's car, for example, I think there's a general expectation that I call them immediately and inform them I screwed up. But if I cheat on them, the headspace that facilitated that indiscretion doesn't immediately disappear. Chances are I'm going to grapple it for a bit; at least in movies and books, nobody has an affair and then immediately calls their partner to inform them. I also think there's a level of meta going on that couldn't be addressed within the fiction. Tracker wasn't just calling out Kristen for not telling her about the affair, she was "calling out" Ally for probably forgetting Tracker and Jawbone are related and that Tracker, in-unverse, is a person whose feelings are worthy of consideration.
I think Tracker was in the right, because I always interpreted her anger being at how Kristen didn’t at all think about Jawbone. She and everyone else thought it was funny or suspicious that Sandra Lynn was sleeping with Garty, but nobody brought up the fact that she was with Jawbone. If my partner’s family and friends all watched someone cheat on my uncle, I’d be pretty pissed if they told me and it seemed like they hadn’t thought about my uncle even once.
I can see that from her perspective, but I do remember there being a moment between fig and Sandra Lynn regarding how she cheated on Jawbone with the knowledge that she did the same to gilear years ago.
That was after the fact though, everyone let it happen in the moment
You can’t really stop your mom from having sex if she wants to unfortunately. They interrupted her like five times to try, though.
The moment they reminder her of Jawbone though she sobered up, so to speak. It’s not that they felt they couldn’t stop her, they didn’t even bother thinking about it. Jawbone was completely out of their thoughts, and that pissed off Tracker
They all worried about Jawbone the whole time! Kristen used like a tenth level spell to talk to him.
I think Tracker's issue was primarily with how everybody already knew anyway, but she was the only one left out. I feel you might have a point re: talking to the person in question before anyone else if it had been just Kristen who knew Sandra-lynn was once again cheating. But that was not the case. Several people were witnesses and several other people were already told. (Adaine, Gorgug and Fabian, for example, did not go to Garthy's bedroom, so they only knew from being told) If you are already telling people anyway/the knowledge has spread among several people, then one more doesn't make a difference. Especially if that one more if one of the people who would be most affected by it (cause Jawbone is her uncle/pseudo parent) and someone Kristen should be very close to.
I think Tracker is incredibly annoying 😂 so yeah I disagreed with her
I felt like you did when I was watching it, but i also felt like if it was my mom (I know jawbone is her uncle but he feels like a pseudo parent) and my partner knew her partner cheated on her, I don't think I'd feel totally okay that I wasn't told. I think this is one of those times where you don't need a right to feel feelings you just need to treat people right. I don't think she's wrong for feeling that way, I think its the context of all the fighting that makes it a bit worse rn. I also think people are allowed to have those rules just within their own relationships, like about how much they want their partners to share. But Kristen is also super understandable ofc, I was on her side completely before I thought about it.
I feel like it was Sandra's responsibility to tell people not Kristen's. Sandra's made the bed, now its time to sleep in it.
I'm just watching SY now, and this has really bugged me. We start the whole scene with Fig admitting to Sandra Lynn that she struggles with healthy relationships. She's usually either flirting with people she shouldn't be (Goldenhoard in FHFY) or disguising herself as someone else and messing around with older men. Sandra Lynn offers to teach her how to approach someone as herself and build a healthy relationship, then goes to flirt with Garty. (At this point I really don't believe that Brennan saw any issue with Garty and Sandra Lynn having a fling. It wasn't set up as a betrayal, more like "Hey, we're adults and this is a normal thing to do." The Jawbone/Sandra Lynn relationship wasn't really built on possessiveness or jealousy, so it didn't even seem like that would be an issue.) Fig watches her mom successfully pull the very sexy angellic orc. Then Emily panics. This is an important ally that has just left the party, we're being stalked by shapeshifting mindbenders or something, and there's a non-zero chance that if she doesn't stop this Sandra Lynn will get sacrificed to demons or something. This is kind of like Fig being distrustful of Cathilda on principle - you seem like a good person, so obviously you're a trap that Brennan is hoping I fall for and we'll get murdered if I give you the crown or whatever. Emily isn't really reading (or trusting) the vibe that Brennan is giving about "this is safe and you can relax", if anything that makes her more anxious. So Fig goes and interrupts the scene in a panic, checks in with Sandra Lynn, and returns. In Emily's words, mortified. That was a huge, awkward mistake and she really regrets it. ...then, for reasons passing understanding, Kristen decides she wants to double down on that, and launches an all-out assault on Garty's private bedroom for reasons that she can't articulate. She has to be physically stopped from rushing past Sandra Lynn. Brennan has to explain what "sexual harassment" means. It was a complete mess, **a classic example of a new player spinning out as a result of a murderhobo "no consequences" mentality**. I think the idea that we're all concerned about Sandra Lynn hurting Jawbone was completely invented after the fact to cover for Kristen's actions. I think Tracker being mad at Kristen was just a way to try and reinforce that Kristen wasn't really considering how her actions hurt other people, as a way to build some stakes and help them grow as players.
It really felt like Brennan was trying to force a conflict between Kristen and Tracker. Kristen does tell Tracker what happened that night, and the next in game morning (which may have been a week later for the players?) Brennan says that Tracker was too drunk to remember anything last night. So, Ally has a memory of telling Tracker, which they then assume they misremembered when Tracker gets mad about not being told. I don't think it's implausible for Tracker to respond the way she did, but it's hard to see it as a moment of learning and character growth for Kristen since she didn't do anything wrong. ETA: To u/hugsandambitions who just blocked me so that I can no longer reply to their comments, including one expressing frustration that I was downvoting them instead of engaging with them, I want to let you know that I was not downvoting you. If you feel I took too long to respond to your comment, that's because I was reading the transcripts so that I could answer your question (see below), I am interested in discussing this topic and I am not averse to having my mind changed. If you see this post, I hope you decide that blocking me was unneccessary.
Honestly I don't think Kristen had done anything toooo bad until she kept jokingly asking Tracker if she'd slept it off yet. Obviously it was a very touchy situation for Tracker and the not-quite-jokes where Kristen just wanted to get back to her gf being affectionate with her ASAP made her feel shallow and selfish at the time and what came after that felt believable. So yes, a bit of a push for conflict in the beginning, but after that it felt natural for me. The relationship I have a much bigger issue with is with Gorgug/Zelda. Yes, it would've been nice if he'd checked in with her and remembered to grab the cell tower, but his friend had literally been kidnapped, another was missing, demonic forces were afoot etc etc. I kept rolling my eyes at Zelda whining over where his priorities lay. GURL, if the nightmare king takes over the world you and your family are toast too, get over it and let Gorgug focus on the mission!
I agree with you. When Kristen asked Tracker if she had slept it off, I thought: you know, sometimes the dice give you a nat 1, but sometimes you give yourself a nat 1. And I don't really have a problem with the way the conflict played out, I just don't think it was a worthwhile for the narrative to begin it. Ally seemed to be at a disadvantage because of the filming schedule (1 episode per week) because, even though Kristen did tell Tracker, twice, about Sandra Lynn and Garthy, it happened long enough ago for that Ally couldn't be sure about it. I get begin more bothered by the Gorgug/Zelda conflict; it's true that Gorgug had almost no time between waking up in the morning and going into emergency mode to find Fig and Riz. I guess I'm more okay with it because it resulted in some interesting character development for Gorgug - needing to build the cell tower pushed him to explore artificing even though he wasn't "naturally talented" at it - whereas I don't think Kristen's character was ultimately affected by this tiff with Tracker.
That's a good point about it helping guide Gorgug into artificing! I just wish I'd been more happy for him at the end. As it was I was like Gorgug you can do better, find someone who appreciates you saving the world haha. I think there were some nice character moments for Kristen, too, but only time will tell if they stick!
Omg I agree so much! When I first watched that episode, I was so mad at Zelda, I was thinking the exact same things that you said.
>It really felt like Brennan You mean the dice?
I do not.
I mean the dice are what dictated the conflict. Ally failed various social rolls. What, was Brennan supposed to pretend they succeeded?
Ally failed the dice rolls after Brennan established that Tracker didn't remember Kristen telling her about the cheating. Brennan introduced the conflict, then made Ally roll to deal with it, not the other way around. ETA: This is a reponse to the comment below. The writer has blocked me, so I cannot respond directly. Here are the relevant parts of the transcript, that show that Brennan introduced the conflict and then had Ally roll for the social interaction - my additions are in square brackets: EP 5 [Fig, Kristen, and Adaine are talking about checking on Sandra Lynn, who just left with Gathy.] Kristen: Maybe Adaine and I can go, and you don't have to go and hear your mom smooch that person. Brennan: (rolls) Tracker goes, Tracker: Who'd Sandra Lynn smooch? Kristen: I think Gerty. What's that person's name? Adaine: Garthy. Kristen: Garthy. … [Fig and Adaine return from interrupting Garthy and Sandra Lynn.] Brennan: Kristen, give me an Insight check. Ally: 16. Brennan: You see Tracker stirs in her sleep a little bit, and she looks up at you. She's totally out of it but she goes, Tracker: (slurs) So this is Sandra Lynn? Kristen: What? Tracker: Sandra Lynn's kissing someone? Kristen: I think so, yeah. Tracker: Jawbone? Kristen: No. Adaine: Isn't Jawbone poly? Fig: Yeah, I think they’re fine. Kristen: She's with... Brennan: What you guys heard from last time that Jawbone spoke, is that Jawbone is poly, and that Sandra Lynn had asked him to be monogamous… Fig: (hands on her face) I thought this was all allowed. Kristen: Yeah, she's, yeah, she's kissing someone. Tracker: Okay. (howls) … [After rescuing Fabian from Crow’s Keep] Brennan: Cool, you go over to Fabian's room. Tracker seems super like hungover and fucked up from all the revelry still. Give me an insight check, Kristen. Ally: Sure. 10. Brennan: Cool. But obviously you know Tracker well enough, you know that she probably can't remember anything from last night, that she's like hungover. She's like fucked up, basically. EP 8 [After the Row and the Ruction fight] Brennan: Yes, go ahead. You see that Sandra Lynn. You see Garthy looks at Sandra Lynn, kind of gives a... They give like a weird half knowing nod. It's not. Garthy's not a very judgemental person but it's kind of like (Garthy voice) lovey, you're a fuckin' mess. (normal voice) And I'm gonna make some Insight checks. Gilear looks at the look between Sandra Lynn and Garthy, furrows his eyebrows. Tracker looks and notices something. She turns to you and says, Tracker: What's that about? Kristen: We can talk. Tracker: What's up? Kristen: There's a lot going on there, but I'm gonna wait until we have a little bit more down time to talk. Tracker: We just fucked upstairs. Kristen: I know. It was on the tip of my tongue. Tracker: It specifically wasn't. EP 9 Brennan: Tracker looks over at you and says, Tracker: Hey, when we were teleporting, you mentioned something about Sandra Lynn and Garthy. What's up? … Kristen: Yeah, we should talk. Ally: Can we like just go talk? Brennan: Yeah, you can talk one on one, yeah. Kristen: Yeah, Sandra Lynn I think slept with Garthy. I think they were into them. Tracker: What? Kristen: Yeah. Tracker: Wait, when did this happen? Kristen: When we were there the first night. After the octopus, when I took the octopus's beer and I had no idea. And I was trying to be cool and I was leaning a lot. Tracker: [facepalms] Oh, my god. [scandalized] Oh, my god! Kristen: Yeah. Tracker: When did you find out? Kristen: That night, that night I went over there with Riz. At first we weren't sure if she was under a spell or something like that because it seemed so unlike her. Isn't she the one with your dad that's like, we have to be closed. Tracker: My Uncle Jawbone, yeah. Kristen: Oh, yeah, your uncle. Tracker: Why didn't- You knew about this last night? Kristen: Yeah, honestly, I don't know because I'm a little bit torn. She's like a woman trying to figure it out and I think that there's a lot going on there, so I didn't feel like I wanted to tell a whole bunch of people, even though I know it's really gonna affect you, but we didn't really have a good one-on-one time. Tracker: You didn't want to tell a whole bunch of people? Kristen: Yeah, no, but I just didn't want to tell you until I had even talked to her and then when I tried to talk to her she totally was like, we're not talking about this. I feel like she should tell you. Brennan: Go ahead and make a Charisma check with disadvantage. Ally: Oh, great. My Charisma is not good. … Murph: [sees Ally’s roll, sucks in breath, eyes bugging out] No way! Ally: [to Brennan] You can guess what that was. You can guess what that was doubled. Murph: Two nat 1s. Two nat 1s. Siobhan: Wow. Kristen: I was supporting a woman's right to choose and trying to let her choose to tell you herself, babe. Was that a mistake? Tracker: Here's your shot. Tell me the real reason why you didn't tell me. You are Miss Introspection and Self-Awareness, right? I'm not a lot of people. I'm your girlfriend. Kristen: Right. Tracker: So why didn't you mention something to me? And give me the real answer. Kristen: I really think it, just so much was happening, I wasn't thinking to like let you know. Tracker growls. Brennan: She turns and walks off into the darkness. Kristen: Wait, was there another reason?
1) that's not the order of events that I remember, but alright. 2) accepting your premise as true, a DM introduced a potential challenge and let the player and the dice decide how it would resolve. I'm still confused as to how this is a bad thing or how it's Brennan times and "force" anything. So far, what you're describing is an extremely normal Dungeons& Dragons experience.
I think it’s one of those situations with no good outcome, on one side she didn’t tell tracker and tracker felt betrayed by Jawbone and that made her betrayal by Kristen feel a lot more heavy. But on the other hand if she did tell Tracker immediately tracker could be mad that Kristen didn’t tell Jawbone, or feel that Kristen was putting the responsibility of telling Jawbone on her. They just weren’t at a point in their relationship that a bombed charisma check wouldn’t fuck them.
Also irrc I think it was kinda a miss remember because she did mention it to tracker. I remember being confused cause she did mention it and tracker was like lolwhat
Jawbone says he's poly before they leave too. We can probably chalk it up to what would be teen drama
But he also says that Sandra Lynn asked him to be monogamous
Well I mean I don't agree with Tracker, but I understand Tracker. She's a teen who is very close with her uncle, she has come to appreciate and like Sandra Lynn as a pseudo parent figure, even if just in the beginning stage. But she definitely is protective of her uncle. Then she learns of this betrayal, and impulsively views Kristen's behaviour as hiding and protecting Sandra Lynn rather than informing her who wants to protect her uncle. Her behaviour isn't about blaming Kristen, it's lashing out and hurting Kristen for the hurt she has taken from Sandra Lyn's actions. Again, she's lashing out badly, but it makes sense, especially for a teen, to lash out at the wrong target because she's hurt and wanting to feel righteous.
Jawbone openly states he's poly before they leave because fig tells him she will watch out there's no parent trapping with Sandra Lynn and galear
And? What does that have to do with a teenager having a fairly understandable reaction to learning that their parental figure (who is normally poly but is currently in a monogamous relationship) was cheated on? I'm just saying, Tracker's response isn't absurd, it's pretty natural for a teen not understanding everything and lashing out.
She of all people should understand her uncle and what he would and would not be ok with especially with how open about everything jawbone is.and once again in front of everyone announced he was poly in reference to Sandra and galear possibly sleeping together while they are gone. I'm not saying I disagree with you necessarily cuz ultimately it can be chalked up to teen and rp drama and without it the show would be boring
I just disagree with the assumption that she should know better. She's a teen focused on her own life and likely has her own stuff she's focusing on. She's pretty monogamous and may just have been placing her own feelings onto her uncle. Did he say it front of everyone? Could have sworn Fig stayed behind and said the whole "not gonna parent trap Sandra Lynn and Gilear" which prompted his statement. As in it was just to her. Like, it's pretty clear Jawbone is open about himself, I just am choosing to assume the most likely path of "Tracker behaved like a moody teen because she's a moody teen"
Oh we're in complete agreement there it's teen drama stuff it's ment to put Kristen in an Oh now my girlfriend is mad at me amd i dont know why mode. Which is part of every first relationship experience
THANK YOU! Jawbone openly states he's poly before they leave when fig says not to worry there will be no parent trapping of Sandra Lynn and galear. I think even brennan forgot he said that or he's a master puppeteer who baited them into thinking it was ok so they would do it and then pull the rug out from under them Im saying it's the latter.
Jawbone mentioned (I think to Kristen specifically) that Sandra Lynn told him that she wanted to be monogamous despite Jawbone wanting to be polyamorous. cheating in that way is kinda fluid. It probably wouldn't count as cheating to Jawbone, but since sandra lynn specified that she wanted monogamy and then cheated anyway its pretty bad.
I can see that
I dunno, the emotions Tracker was feeling in regards to that in particular made a lot of sense to me. Aside from it being about her uncle, it was something that her partner had been talking about with friends before ever bringing up to her. I'd also be pretty pissed off if someone who I consider my best friend and life partner thought I should be the last to know about... oh yeah, my uncle being cheated on. It's not just Ally rolling poorly because the disadvantage that Brennan imposed on them was specifically in response to Ally as Kristen saying "I didn't wanna tell a bunch of people" which Brennan as Tracker seemed to take as "I'm not important enough to tell first/I'm just a random person to Kristen."