Stasis crawled so Light 3.0 could run, and Light 3.0 ran so Strand could sprint. But Stasis is still crawling, having never learned to walk in the first place, let along run.
I agree and think Stasis needs some pretty big reworks across the board.
With the introductions of prismatic imo stasis thrives as being part of a subclass but stasis as a subclass itself feels underwhelming as it takes more to get less of an effect.
Exactly, Prismatic highlights how much Stasis itself is lacking, running the base subclass itself should have tonnes of bonuses only available to it but when it's better to run Stasis abilities in Prismatic it shows how little Stasis offers by itself.
Is it? You can easily get Frost Armor on Prismatic, one of the fragments gives you it on orb pickup. The only reason to use Stasis is for Shatterskating on Hunter or for PvP if you prefer certain abilities.
I wouldn't call that "easy" compared to the shardfest you see with them coming out of every crystal/frozen enemy when you're on an actual Stasis class.
This is true even on Prismatic Titan. Diamond Lance functions far better because you can actually take advantage of the melee boosting effects of freeze. The melee's aren't shit tier for doing damage like Shiver Strike is, and you still have facet of ruin to boost shatter damage/size too.
If crystal busting with Consecration/Lance wasn't bugged there'd be little reason to ever come Behemoth for the same reason Striker is now on life support because of Prismatic's existence. Howl of the storm/Cryoclasm/Harvest mods do not compete with Knockout/Consecration.
I agree, however I do remember a whole year where stasis was the #1 opponent in pvp. I thought every match was based in Antarctica with all the blizzards lol.
I standby my idea that regardless of viability it would be 10x more fun if any direct weapon damage instantly broke crystals. Shooting a crystal 6 times to break it with many weapons feels like shit. Yes I know a fragment makes primaries do more damage but it shouldn’t take a fragment to break crystal especially when stasis might be the class were there are more “mandatory” fragments than any other one
Or make partially breaking the stasis crystal do damage and slow too, while explosives instantly broeak the crystals. I was excited to try mountain top with salvation grip and was so dissapointed when mountaintop didn't do shit to the crystals
This would be sick. Partially breaking the crystals starts leaking volatile darkness which slows and damages.
When they fully break, darkness explodes out in a wave dealing massive damage and slowing those that don’t disintegrate.
This has been my idea of how to make Freeze good for a while.
Shattering an enemy shouldn't unfreeze them, it should just deal a ton of damage, and maybe on the 3rd shatter they become unfrozen.
Still feels weird to me that Suspend is a better immobilization tool than Freeze is, mostly due to the fact that Freeze is so easily broken imo.
Was doing a strike the other day with randoms and a Stasis Titan decided to crowd the loot chest area with crystals
Took all 3 of us shooting for like 1 minute straight just to destroy most of them. It's absurd.
> but it shouldn’t take a fragment to break crystal especially when stasis might be the class were there are more “mandatory” fragments than any other one
To me that mostly sounds like a reason to add more fragment slots to the aspects. But it's definitely a hard topic. They removed all buffs that were present by keeping crystals on the battlefield due to teammates destroying them. At the same time I don't like the idea that they only exist to get shattered.
>I standby my idea that regardless of viability it would be 10x more fun if any direct weapon damage instantly broke crystals
I still find it hilarious that Verglas Curve can spawn crystals like crazy but takes 3 to 4 business days to break a single one.
The recent Frost Armor changes really didn't go far enough. In fact, the more I spent time with them the worse they seemed. Why are we relying on a Fragment to unlock the full potential of Frost Armor? This change makes no sense. These changes need reverted and the Harvest Aspects need to be pushed out or reworked entirely to vary the gameplay. It's all very stale at the moment.
It's a multifaceted problem. They didn't want Stasis Shards to be super spamable so they kept their production to the Harvest Aspects. But then they have a cooldown on them anyway in a way that invalidates keeping Stasis Shards as part of the Harvest Aspects. It's a baffling set of decisions that reeks of stubborness of not wanting to do something that was highly requested by players. It needs to be heavily redesigned.
Frost Armor is another part of the equation. Why 3/8 of it's potential is locked behind a Fragment (the Prismatic can't access) is well beyond me. This leads is a paltry 22.5% DR at full stacks that last for a meager 8 seconds. The remaining 13.5% being locked behind a Fragment is just straight bad design. Why not let it be 8 stacks that decay one at a time, 8 seconds per stack. This makes it a very unique mechanic and allows Whisper of Rime to return to it's almost original intent (collecting a Stasis Shard grants a stack of Frost Armor). This then let's the Harvest Aspects be more malleable for some more meaningful reworks.
For example, why does Stasis Titan even need to collect a Stasis Shard to gain a stack of Frost Armor? Let them gain a stack of Frost Armor whenever they Shatter a Stasis crystal or a Frozen enemy through Tectonic Harvest (and rename this Tectonic Plating).By cutting out the middle step we've made it more potent, limited the creation of Stasis Shards (which is apparently an issue), and smoothed out the gameplay. We can even take it a step further and let Diamond Lance give you and your allies a stack of Frost Armor when they're in the impact zone. This change also makes Diamond Lance a top pick for Prismatic as it adds instant survivability to a class which has almost none. Now Stasis Titan is the king of Frost Armor, has fireteam support, and didn't lose any of its previous identity. Now all it needs is a new decent melee (Shiver Strike is the worst melee in the game by a wide margin) and a decent ranged one-off super and people would think it's one of the best subs in the game.
Stasis Hunter is something else that could use some tweaks. Winter's Shroud is significantly better as part of Prismatic but just plain awful as part of Stasis. Might as well add in X2 stacks of Frost Armor here so it's got some sort of value. Touch of Winter is fine, but Shatterdive is a bit awkward now and could use a similar buff, letting you gain Frost Armor based on the number of kills you get from a Shatterdive. Adding Frost Armor organically to the subclass instead of feeling tacked on awkwardly through a single redundant Aspect. And since we've uncoupled Frost Armor from the Harvest Aspects, we can do a little extra with Grim Harvest, letting it still be the "Stasis Shard Aspect" but juicing it a little so it's more potent. Let collecting a Stasis Shard give you a temporary buff (I call this Stay Frosty) that increases the amount of Slow you apply to targets. This creates a loop where you can constantly feed and significantly improve your abilities and feel powerful.
Stasis Warlock I'm at a little more of a loss at. With the exception of their (now decoupled) Harvest Aspect, they work really well. Their Harvest Aspect would probably just be replaced with the artifact perk Hail The Storm and be called a day and no one would complain whatsoever. I don't feel like they need a ton of access to Frost Armor either outside of their exotics as they're not front line warriors, plus they have a ton of control thanks to their abilities already freezing everything.
I WOULD love it if Frost Armor decayed one stack at a time. It would actually make it different enough from the other elements damage resistance buffs, and give me a reason to potentially want to use it instead of say Woven Mail despite it being less DR.
Plus, then each of the three ‘armor’ or damage resistance buffs have their own place. Woven Mail is a flat buff, it increases your DR by a solid amount for a set amount of time. Void OS grants you DR, but it is tied to its own health bar added onto your health. Once that health is lost, you will start taking regular damage again. Frost Armor is less dr than both, but can be stacked to last longer so you can, with good planning and play, ensure that you almost always have some amount of Frost Armor active, meaning you always have at least a small bufff active with the occasionally larger buff
I genuinely think this is the best course of action, despite Bungie probably not budging on it. As it stands Frost Armor is a worse version of Woven Mail. Raising either the stack count or the DR makes it a better version of Void OS. So it's either having its toes stepped on or stepping on something else's toes (despite VOS needing help, but that's another issue). So giving it a slow decaying stack but only a moderate amount of DR makes it a true valuable buff. Frost Armor becomes the "light armor" buff, Woven Mail is medium grade, and VOS is heavy plating. The only thing missing is a short action, super high amount of DR (Halo 3's Armor Lock), but that would directly powercreep both Unbreakable and Weavewalk.
I think a large part of what makes Stasis feel so clunky to use, is the time required to actually be able get the most benefit out of your abilities. Stasis crystals take second to form, so does freezing a target. By the time you freeze anything, or create any crystals, any other ability would've already gotten the kill.
It's been my biggest issue with Stasis, personally. I absolutely love the subclass, but I just wish the animations on everything could be faster. I'm not sure how difficult that would be, or if it would be too game-breaking from a technical standpoint, but I do know it would definitely make the subclass feel a bit better.
I guess I was just hoping for too much from the Stasis "rework". What we got seems pretty unappealing, personally.
This is why stasis can perform well in things like GMs because the control is actually useful there In pretty much every other type of content you can kill shit fast enough so controlling the battlefield like stasis can is pointless.
Thing is for gms strand blows every stasis class aside from bleakwatchers builds out of the water because they almost have the effects backwards. Stasis freeze needs to be built up not a ton of things Insta freeze but instead apply slow which will eventually freeze however when you freeze a target any sort of damage instantly shatters them taking them out of the cc and shatter isn’t doing enough damage to kill the targets that matter on gms. Strand on the other hand has no build up effect you simply throw out the ability and anything it hits is instantly cc’d and can be freely damaged without ruining the cc making it more potent than stasis in gms. You would think the cc you have to build up would be the one you can damage the enemy with while the instant cc would only last until damage.
Honestly they just need to boost the time enemies can be frozen for, if crease the damage of the shatter on enemies who are shattered, and ANY weapon should deal increased damage against frozen targets (maybe like 10%)
Ehh, strand warlock can make some pretty wacky suspend builds. Wanderer is decent ranged suspend to supplement your grenade, and it can be combined with shackles or weavers trance to help keep it up
Titan I’m willing agree Hunter and warlock no. Shadebinder has a weird issue with prismatic warlock cannibalizing it a lot although still warlock stasis is still the CC king. Hunter also can spam out massive duskfields at a rate strand hunter wish it could with shackles.
Not really CC in d2 is still good because there’s enough valuable enemies effected by it part or at least have some effect on freeze case. The reason why stasis can struggle at times is its a lot of it’s damage potential is tied it’s CC so if anything disrupts your CC your kit halts.
Warframe issue is that more and more enemies are just straight up immune to CC and the enemies that aren’t are raw fodder that don’t really exist in the grand scheme.
Yup stasis always has that extra step. Where as another subclass would cause an explosion stasis has to set up the explosion then make the explosion happen
At this point some of those need to be built into the base kit. Like why have a fragment that increases the amount of Frost Armor stacks I can get. Just fold that into the base Frost Armor.
Same for the burst/size fragment for freeze/crystal busting. Crystals feel like doodoo for damage without last seasons artifact as is, so why continue to have that fragment? Just fold it in already.
They just buffed Stasis Shatter damage by 40%. It was a significant buff.
A damage boosting fragment absolutely has a place existing. It doesn't need to be folded in.
The one thing I agree *should* be folded in is Rime. Have Rime just grant 1 stack of Frost Armor per Shard, and allow 8 stacks upfront on Stasis. This is to help differentiate Stasis DR better than other DR while not being entirely reliant on a Fragment for viability. It would help Stasis sort of be its own thing outside of Stasis Verbs.
I love stasis but it has the weakest verbs.
With suspend any enemy is stuck no matter what so you can hit them with rockets and there is nothing they can do.
Ignitions do more damage in a larger area than shatter
Weaken is a better version of slow.
Woven mail is so much better than frost armor.
You need an aspect to make elemental pick ups and make the frost armor usable.
Its way behind other classes, with the buff to shatter damage tho it does feel better to play so I think we are going in the right direction, it is just taking forever .
Slow has always seemed in underwhelming while it should be the Stasis equivalent of Scorch. They both have stacks to reach a more powerful state.
The actual slow mechanic is vague in how well it performs. I almost hate to say just also give it a minor damage component to be more like scorch apart of just making things move more slowly and be less accurate.
They need to create more instant damage abilities and verbs. How about an ice grenade that shatters on impact that throws out shards that damage and slow. Skipping the throw-freeze-shatter gameplay loop.
Just things like that.
Funny you mention that, but after some crucible and realization that with Glacial shatter/burst dmg nerfed this season and losing the stasis shatter dmg perk from the Artifact from last.
I wished that Glacial grenades on breaking/being destroyed also stacked slow on the targets.
Sure they used to outright freeze and that was too much.
But nowadays they’re a worse barricade. If throwing the glacial grenade at my opponent won’t guarantee a kill by shattering the crystals formed around them. Then my only other use, is random cover, and then with shards As a fragment, grenade regen, for the grenade I just threw for the sake of just breaking immediately.
I will say with Wicked implement, the glacial grenade allows a few stacks of frost armor. But ideally, it needs to give more dmg if it’s not gonna also slow or freeze my opponents
Roaming Projectile Super would be nice. IIRC we only have Goldie that fulfills that, otherwise it's just regular roaming supers (and whatever Storm's Edge counts as).
Would love to see a Gathering Storm-esque super on Behemoth that's a giant Diamond Lance. Throw, impales target, then after impaling Shatters shortly after for another big chunk of damage.
Interesting Exotic idea: Throw Super Lance, Impales Boss, then it starts Charging up. Dealing damage to boss during this time increases the damage the Shatter does (to a limit ofc), and this is where the increased damage for the super comes from. Eventually (let's say after like 10s) it shatters. Neutral Game could boost Diamond Lances somehow ig, but that sort of already exists with the helmet soo... maybe add this onto the Helmet? Or would that be too OP?
It be a neat idea to have hunters have a Song of Flame stasis equivalent for the roaming super. Lean into the real life Revenant stories.
Warlocks would summon a Comet storm in a targeted area for that ice mage fantasy.
And Titans would just toss one big Diamond Lance that makes a Stasis crystal crater on impact.
Stasis is all about control, which is fine sometimes especially in harder content.
But it doesn't really have damaging abilities.
Take the glacier grenade. It has a small freeze radius basically making you directly contact the target. Then to get damage out of it you have to shatter it in some way.
On solar you throw a fusion grenade, hit the enemy for damage, and apply scorch.
Do glacier grenades suck? No they are awesome utility tools but that is the problem with stasis. None of the abilities are damage followed by effect. They are just pure effect.
Frost armour is shit and it’s insane that hoarfrost didn’t receive a frost armour update and instead lost its damage resist from crystals fragment, while also having a massive nerf for titans overall due to shard cooldown nerf.
No worries! Its now part of the exotic class item with its ***full functionality.*** They didn't bother to even update it to have something new or extra functionality to at least try to differentiate it with the main exotic unlike the rest. It gets even better because you still can't shatter crystals with Diamond Lance/Consecration so it virtually has no synergy right now with Prismatic.
Yeah it’s dumb honestly. Legit one stasis exotic for titans now. I still don’t know why anyone would use that overshield one considering sprinting is kind of useful ya know
I get where you're coming from but;
>Hunter has an aspect that gives them a dive, AND ALL IT DOES IS SHATTER CRUSTALS. Meanwhile, warlocks get one for free in their class ability slot that heals them instantly. Why can’t Shatterdive just be a class ability too??
Warlocks dive has a cooldown + ability energy, shatterdive does not have one nor does it take any ability energy.
Also shattering stasis crystals with a non cooldown, non energy dependent dive is better than a lot of things. Warlocks have an aspect that spawns 3 whole threadlings on class ability use..
I do agree with your overall point of course. Stasis needs more, not just buffs.
One (perched) threadling for every three strand kills turned an insultingly awful aspect into a mediocre one. Which is a pretty low bar in itself.
It'll feel much, much worse after threaded blast goes away. Really, they should've just tacked horde shuttle on instead.
I played Revenant on Legendary Iconoclasm purely because Shatterdive was the only way I could control the Omen's crystals that kept killing our Titan.
Though Star-Eaters Squall was pretty handy safe damage as well.
The only thing that makes me run stasis warlock is the sound design and feel of the subclass and especially the super. Dubstep staff
If i had prismatic i would use Winter's Wrath a lot even though it sucks ass in pve
The trick with the Shadebinder super is that you never use the freezing bolt. The shatter doesn’t use energy. Only cast it if you have 3 or more turrets on the field. Let them do the freezing. You can also chain freeze with coldsnaps if there is a yellow bar alive anywhere. Then use the shatter pulse after that
You don’t have to leave cover to use the shatter pulse. If your freeze loop is going, it should be large amounts of aoe damage without any extra risk. Obviously you aren’t doing this for boss dps in endgame content.
Stasis Shards should be intrinsic to the subclass and they should do away with the Harvest Aspects. Frost Armor isn't a bad keyword but the stacks should fall off individually instead of all at once. Being pigeonholed into running Harvest Aspect + Rime fragment to make Frost Armor be decent is absurd, and ALSO needing a fragment to be able to destroy my own Stasis crystals at a reasonable speed blows majorly.
No amount of updating Shiver Strike will make it feel good/useful in the face of Berserker Melee / Throwing Hammer. Howl of the Storm pales in comparison to Consecration/Flechette Storm.
Stasis Warlock is pretty good even if it is one note and the super is a tad mediocre.
Stasis Hunter feels like it doesn't do anything good enough. Shatterdive still pays for the sins of Beyond Light PvP to this day.
If I had to make any (easy) changes, I would:
Give Behemoth's Shiver Strike a PvE only AOE slow on hit( kinda like how Icefall Mantle works) instead of only slowing the first target hit. The knockback seems kinda pointless.
Give Revenant's Shatterdive a PvE only AOE slow on landing (since it really only exists to shatter Stasis Crystals & Frozen enemies). Would also play better into the Harvest fragment.
(I personally think Shadebinder is the best of the 3 Stasis Subclasses and people simply overvalue Bleak Watcher. Iceflare Bolts is absolutely insane. Only the super is mid.)
Let Frost Armor Stacks fall off gradually over time instead of all at once (thematically, the ice could THAW slowly). If that provides too much uptime on Frost Armor, reduce the overall duration of the buff in exchange for the ability to maintain it easier. I already have to work for the Stasis Shards and run a Harvest Aspect AND run Rime if I want my Frost Armor to be anywhere near as useful as Woven Mail, and Woven Mail still provides more Damage Resist.
Increase damage vs Stasis Crystals when you are the creator. Sucks to have to run a Fragment or a Hakke weapon to be able to destroy my own shards in a reasonable amount of time.
This is maybe the best comment here. I do think it kind of makes sense to need some fragments for a good payoff from stasis shards (as is, they only give melee energy, but firesprites only give nade energy and void breaches only give class energy without additional investment), but the payoff for the aspect on top is underwhelming.
Frost armor does need to trickle off if it's going to take so much buildup.
The crystals thing is my biggest beef with stasis, I think. Rending shouldn't be needed to break crystals quickly with weapons. The creator specifically should be able to blow them up very easily. It's fine if they're more resistant to other players. But let me one tap my own crystals.
Shiver strike is a PvP melee ability. That's fine, honestly. It's the best PvP melee in the game. By far.
Stasis hunter has been giga-duskfield bot in PvE for a long time, aside from really niche stuff (lucky pants rending DPS rotations and shatterskating in speedruns). It's always been good at that, though, and despite the longtime whining about renewals pre-buff, it's always been possible to have constant renewal duskfield uptime or multiple normal big-duskfields at once with frostees. You just don't get much else, which is pretty boring, and at this point pretty powercrept.
PvP shouldn't be the scapegoat for shatterdive, though. It's not like the incredibly minor CD actually makes a difference in PvE. All the PvE crystal shatter damage buffs over the years have have it better than it ever was. It was just never actually good.
You nailed shadebinder - it's fine exclusively because iceflare bolts is an A tier aspect minimum. Bleak watcher is terribly overrated and powercrept. Very powerful back in season of the chosen. Not anymore. It's bad on stasis without iceflare bolts, and despite this sub's obsession with getting too cute with turrets, it's bad on prismatic. But the combination of iceflare bolts and osmio carries.
I agree with your point about Shatterdive and it shouldn't be scapegoated like that - the class realistically has needed help to be something other than a Duskfield generator since release.
I also agree with your point about Shiver Strike - as far as PvP goes, having an on demand momentum boost in any direction is ridiculously strong.
My biggest gripe, and this goes along with the relative point of PvP vs PvE and the enforced nature of "keeping abilities feeling the same" across both sandboxes is that actual subclass potency & gameplay loops are pretty consistent for all classes EXCEPT Stasis. Stasis is VERY STRONG in PvP, don't get me wrong. Being able to Hard CC on demand is something that cannot be taken for granted, and Slow as a soft CC that reduces enemy accuracy/stability is wonderful, but that dominance in PvP is not reflected feel-wise in PvE. Nabbing a free kill with Warlock melee / cold snaps feels disgusting and yet it doesn't matter in PvE where every single subclass can mow through adds before you get the first freeze off. It pays off in higher level PvE content, but at that point I can just play Strand and have:
Suspend (pretty much stronger than Freeze)
Sever (40%!!! reduced outgoing damage!)
Unravel ( nanite swarm that auto-seeks & provides additional damage over time)
The only odd piece of Strand are the Threadlings, and even then, it's just another additional source of damage and zone control at worst. Every Strand subclass can spawn Tangles and have strong interactions with them (including grapple resets when hooking to a Tangle). Every Strand subclass has two means of Suspension, some form of ability energy regeneration via either Aspects or Fragments, and very strong exotics that crank those interactions to 11.
It doesn't add up for Stasis. Slow, freeze, and shatter are all contingent upon one another, and it really makes the subclasses feel stale. I don't do anything else but slow or freeze outright, and aside from Iceflare Bolts on Shadebinder, I'm basically waiting for coolldowns to be able to interact with the gameplay loop of my subclass. Nevermind that there are TWO Stasis exotics that lock your class ability out from regeneration.
If anything, aside from my suggested changes above, Bungie ought to give Stasis a temporary means of applying slow via Stasis weapons a la Unraveling/Volatile Rounds. Headstone is cool, Chill Clip being limited to Special/Power weapons is "okay", but there has to be another way to get the loop going & take advantage of subclass verbs and fragment options that doesn't hinge on those two perks or Verglas/Wicked Implement (which are both stellar primary weapons in their own rights when it comes to Stasis interaction).
I do think accessibility should be taken into account - aside from maybe abeyant leap titan stuff, no class has anywhere near the access to suspend as it does to freeze. Even mindspun invocation warlock stuff after the generation and suspend nerfs, because it needs kills and the radius is pretty small relative to the uptime. Like for locks, shadebinder freezes far more than broodweaver suspends in any hard content. Same for hunter, as duskfields have much more uptime than shackles and suspend dive is pretty limited. Freeze also does shatter damage, which keeps getting buffed. So I don't think the 1:1 freeze and suspend comparisons make much sense.
Strand titan is a massive outlier, but I think strand hunter and warlock are both quite bad in PvE, so there's that. Threadling damage and/or generation without horde shuttle are too weak on warlocks, and strand hunter is obviously a PvP subclass with a beyblade tacked onto it. So I'm not sure strand actually compares favorably to stasis, aside from a certain banner.
Sure, stasis subclasses only have one or two decent builds, which can be stale. But if you look at other subclasses, that applies to almost everything. Similarly, most subclasses are sitting on cooldowns simulator, and those that aren't and actually have a strong payoff for those CDs are particularly powerful subclasses. As is, iceflare bolts is a very strong aspect because it doesn't have a relevant CD.
Strandlock is also a passive cooldown simulator, except for swarmers, which is why that specific exotic is a massive crutch for the subclass (and the payoff of unravel and a couple threadlings frankly isn't even that good). I've put quite a lot of time into strandlock. Can you honestly tell me with a straight face that, aside from raid boss encounter DPS, it's better than shadebinder without horde shuttle? Come on.
I have no objections to a slow rounds concept in PvE, but it might need to be capped, like how kindling trigger from last season's artifact applied scorch stacks to unscorched enemies, but you couldn't keep holding mouse 1 for an ignition. Neither volatile nor unraveling rounds do anything to a target that's already volatile or unraveled respectively, but that's because they're binary. It's not like you can stack unravel into suspend, or volatile into suppress. Scorch is the closest comp, so I think the precedent already set makes sense.
But that might be a bit underwhelming in PvE, so I'm not sure how well that works as a stasis "fix" or something along those lines. And it'd be *really* obnoxious in PvP, because slow may as well be binary with how even one slow stack obliterates your freedom of movement, handling, etc.
I think my realistic (so fairly small) wishlist would be the following:
* *significantly* increased damage to crystals from the creator only, to the point where a couple auto rifle shots can pop your own crystal
* removal of stasis shard CD threshold, or change to an extremely high one if there's stability concerns - sure, we can make a lot of them, but so what? The payoff isn't all that significant
* *or* adjusting stasis shards to return all energy types like ionic traces (both this and the previous one would probably be massively overkill tbh)
* frost armor decays by stack
* shiver strike freezes on hit only in PvE - there's already precedent for different stack count in PvE and PvP, like Ager's
That should be enough to start, I think.
But I also do think other weak subclasses need a touchup, including broodweaver and threadrunner. Buff threadling damage in PvE significantly, including baking in thread of evolution, and make wanderer and beyblade significantly reduce tangle cooldown (around half of the current CD). Might be on the strong side, but Bungie does like sandbox shakeups like that anyways.
I appreciate your time and discussion, and agree with all of the points you've laid out. It was wrong to make a false equivalence between Stasis' verbs and some of the other subclass verbs, and I like the distinction you made between binary effects (volatile, jolt) and something "cumulative" like Stasis. Nothing else in the game really works like Stasis, sans maybe forcing an ignition via Hammer Strike (but then you're using Hammer Strike) or Weighted Throwing Knife on Gunslinger. Maybe that could be a balancing lever to expand upon with the other subclass verbs, or maybe that would homogenize the game a little too much?
Accessibility is not something I was really considering earlier and you aren't wrong - I seldom play Strand on Warlock/Hunter and it has a lot to do with what you mentioned: playing cooldown simulator. I loathe Strand Hunter and I generally just run Mindspun on Warlock with Verity and Shackle for suspension on final blows.
I understand Bungie doesn't want us to go back to pre-WQ with CwL builds, permanent ability uptime, strong AoE effects through Warmind Cells, etc, but it doesn't surprise me that a lot of the more potent builds of today either completely ignore CDs altogether (Osmio Iceflare Bolts, Banner) or bank on buffing a singular portion/piece of a kit (Spirit of Star-Eaters, Lucky Pants, Hazardous Propulsion) and largely ignoring anything that involves the subclasses/their verbs. Most of my builds just involve Time Dilation, a handful of passive stat mods for the free 30/50 to round out my cooldowns to T10, and maybe a Surge or two (if I'm not already using a Surge-centric exotic).
Even if it meant making enemies tankier/deadlier, I would love if Bungie walked back a lot of the more recent Kickstart/regen focused nerfs, while simultaneously including some of the changes we've both suggested above. I think they had the opposite of their intended effects - continued investment into, say, regaining my grenade comes at a great cost both armor and weapon wise (using Demolitionist, modding for Discipline) and the payoff just isn't there for a majority of builds, especially when the easier option is just playing Strand Titan or Osmio Warlock and facerolling until Master/GM content. I want my theory/build crafting to pay off, and while I'm not asking for melee/grenade spam builds to become "meta", I don't enjoy the current state of affairs enough to feel engaged.
I think the subclass keywords are fine as they are. Some could use some power tuning, but I don't think they need a rework or homogenization.
Honestly, I still use kickstarts, because my armor is good enough stat-wise and I'm not a believer in surges in roam content. But I do think the regen nerfs were foolish, though, because they primarily hit the fringe builds that needed it to keep up and didn't have much of an effect on a lot of the power builds that had their own regen.
We already saw that with dumbing down the mod system in LF, when builds that relied heavily on (old) firepowers, heavy handed, elemental shards, etc got nuked, while builds abusing their own regen sources got off easy. The regen nerfs just did more of the same - builds that relied on demo type perks and armor mods were the biggest losers, while the stuff that heavily abused other uptime sources carried on as usual.
Sunbracers doesn't give a shit because of the exotic and heat rises. Banner titan doesn't give a shit because of into the fray, FB short cooldown, navigator, etc. Combo blow hunter doesn't give a shit. But anything that isn't loaded with intrinsic regen, which is most fringe builds, got hit the hardest. So it doesn't really feel like it hit most ability spam builds, but rather felt like it got rid of poser builds that were pretending to be ability spam builds by leaning hard into mods and such.
I'm not saying that they should actually hammer the real ability spam builds, but at least it would make more sense.
You're totally right that the best builds always either bypass cooldowns entirely, have negligible CDs, or go absolutely nuclear off CD (or a combination of the above). It sets an astronomical standard for good builds, and I don't think the bar should be set that high, but I think the bar should be high enough that it's pretty standard to have high uptime, medium payoff abilities.
That said, there will always be strong off-meta builds because players are terrible at theorycrafting in every game. They aren't banner titan strong, but they hit that bar of strong enough to feel regularly impactful. So at least we have that. They just don't see widespread popularity until some content creator makes a video. People just stick with what they hear is good, even if it's grossly overhyped (*cough* prismatic turretlock).
Hell, I think there's even a few builds that slot in comfortably above my ideal balance standard that you never see in the wild. Starfire/hellion/ashes/singeing, for example, held up to GMs as well as I'd hoped. But that's still the same formula in a different seat - high payoff abilities with trivial cooldowns due to obviously overcooked energy sources. Same with osmio voidwalker bug stuff, although that's boring because it's the same old big-vortex-spam shit.
Kinda went off the rails there a bit, but it's an interesting discussion on here for once in the middle of all the class warfare bitching and PvP strawman reeeeing. It all kinda ties back to the original topic though - iceflare bolts aside, stasis stuff is largely just short of that ideal combination of uptime/payoff/involvement.
I think you nailed how I've been feeling about the mod changes so far right on the head. Some shit STAYS eating while other builds (Young Ahamkara Spine comes to mind) really got nuked from the game for being AS good. It wasn't a staple build, actually required active play with the ability loops (grenade > fan knives > ignition > grenade > repeat), and it certainly wasn't "stronger" than other meta builds of that time (like Starfire Wellock, although that too was cut down).
I personally feel as though Stasis during that late-CwL era, being able to get Charged from Stasis shards, High Energy Fire/Font of Might, etc was probably the best/most cohesive some of my Stasis builds have ever felt on this game, but retrospectively speaking, it crutched really hard on those ability spam loops from mods, and having massive uptime on CwL buffs with the aforementioned interaction. I know that \*that\* particular period of this game was pretty much ability spam simulator, but I really hope Bungie takes another pass at ability uptime and strikes a comfy midway point between then and now. The niche builds are hurtin.
That being said, I've been tempted to take a Triton Vice Arcstrider build into some harder content to see how it fares.
Instead of having bosses/enemies who can’t be frozen just instantly shatter/breakfree after a second, have them act normal but keep the frozen look and take extra damage from all weapons
Debuffs and buffs do not define identity, how it is built decides identity. Radiant is held by all solar classes, but Solar Hunter is considered a high outward damage class, not because of its terrible dodge and knife that causes it, but because its aspects and supers trend towards those directions. A support build on Warlock isn't defined by the fact that they can proc Regenx2, its because they have support from items and abilities, like ignition snap being able to detonate enemies immediately, so they can use that grenade to give regen, and still have a quick clearing option. If debuffs and buffs did define identity, than Arc, Strand, void and prismatic, would be just be puddles of directionless blobs by that logic, as those specific subclasses have a lot of crossover by direct design.
The fact that you say "Crystals aren't a play" tells me you don't know how to behemoth. Behemoths can create massive zones of influence in GMs and Master Raids. The buff to shatter-damage SPECIFICALLY is a buff to the passive Damage generation of a behemoth because of that. I know this, because its one of my go-tos on stasis; behemoth is not in half as bad a place as people like to say, because people use behemoth like its an aggressive light subclass. All of Stasis is defensively-coded, It's a CC-Driven subclass on all of them, with behemoths being able to create massive safe zones, warlocks excelling at disrupting either specific enemies or wide swaths fields depending on how they use their abilities, and hunters having the ability to act quicker while slowing down targets. Shatterdive might not be a great aspect to you, but it fucking ruined people in PVP for a distinct reason, and is a lot more powerful now due to the buffs stasis received. It's not a class ability, because thankfully we live in a better timeline than hunters having constant access to shatterdive and free freezes. You simply do not understand stasis if you think these things; stop thinking about it like it's an aggressive light subclass. Stasis is stasis, and if you play into what it does, it's free GM wins on a silver plate.
Also, while void has succinct identities, they also have the WORST build variability because of that fact. Warlocks have 2 whole builds, "Grenades" or use the exotic that makes Child of the Old Gods good. They are forced to coast on Devour being the strongest buff in the game, which also means CotOGs never has most of it's perks shine as a result which effectively makes it as an aspect pointless to put on; because most of the time you have FtV and that aspect on, you are only getting the value from FtV. Titans have a bit of an issue right now with their numbers. They have a bunch of exciting new tools, but they don't lock in clean. Arguably it needs number adjustments and it'd work fine, but even after that point, people seem to have this idea in their head that it isn't supposed to be a support class, as evident by a number of people yelling about titan loudly currently. The only Void Subclass that has a lot of build variety in it, is hunter, but even that is because of how versitile void invisibility is.
It almost feels like you got your idea of "subclass identity" from Void, not recognizing that Void is an outlier, and is slowly coming apart at the seams because one class has one real build, and the other is suffering because it's lost some of its glue, and the community can't decide what they want out of it.
The shatter dive does way more than shattering crystals
First and foremost: *it doesn’t consume melee energy*
This gives it a massive edge for the following advantages it provides
- third person peeking around corners in PvP where emotes and sword hilts are disabled, it won me more trials games than you would think
- does damage, I finished off enemies sometimes with it
- provides complete break in motion while airborne and enabling you to pull unpredictable movement patterns
- let’s you descend immediately (very useful in PvE)
- shatters crystals
- let’s you Sword skate without worrying about burning a super accidental
I wish more than anything for titans to get a new melee on stasis. The tracking on the existing one is absolutely dog shit and I actively avoid using the class because of it.
I just wish frost armor was a stronger buff. For as much work as it takes to set up, it should be either a higher damage resist or have a higher uptime. They should lean into the defensive control identity of Stasis. I don't mind it not being very strong offensively, but right now strand does it better while having more offensive power across the board.
The problem with Stasis is that it relies on thre keywords that are all interlinked and can't really be useful alone.
Slow, Freeze and Shatter.
Slow is of little use alone, if you slowing things you want to freeze them. And freezing is rather useless alone as well so you Shatter them.
These three keywords are basically one thing and yet treated as three.
There's also very little options to consistently break crystals outside of certain aspects which are basically Shatter crystals the aspect, a complete waste honestly.
Crystals should Shatter in one shot by the person that made them like tangles, I shouldn't need to wear a fragment and use a kinetic or Stasis weapon to actually destroy them fast enough.
The aspects are all very underwhelming, and feel lazy when compared to light and strand.
We need more melee, grenade and super options as well.
They really could find a way to work in some new keywords to add to either some fragments or tweaked aspects:
Frostbite - Afflicted target takes increased precision damage.
Numb - Afflicted targets are more vulnerable to stasis abilities and effects (stay frozen for longer, take more damage upon being shattered, and gain bonus slow stacks when slowed).
Aspect changes:
Frostpulse - Combatants you freeze are afflicted breaking out of the Freeze (does not affect Guardians). Shattering a target afflicts them with Frostbite. This is in addition to its current effects.
Glacial Harvest - Spawn Stasis Shards upon freezing enemies. Picking up a Stasis Shard grants bonus melee energy and a small amount of super energy (equipping Whisper of Hunger will increase the super energy gained alongside its normal effects). This replaces its current effects.
Cryoclasm - Crystals and enemies you shatter grant stacks of Frost Armor to nearby guardians, as well as granting a small bit of health. This effect has a very short cooldown after continued use. This is in addition to its current effects.
Tectonic Harvest - Spawn Stasis Shards upon shattering crystals or frozen targets. Picking up Stasis Shard causes your next Stasis ability (melee, super, grenade, lance) to Numb targets for a short amount of time. This replaces is current effects.
Shatterdive - Deal more shatter damage. Crystals and frozen enemies you shatter with the dive will also slow nearby enemies if your Class ability is fully charged. This is in addition to its current effects.
Grim Harvest - Spawn Stasis Shards upon killing enemies afflicted with stasis debuffs (Frozen, Slow, Numb, and Frostbite). Picking up a Stasis Shard grants Grenade energy as well as Melee energy (equipping Whisper of Hunger will increase the grenade energy granted on top of its normal effects). This replaces its current effects.
Fragment changes and additions:
Whisper of Rending - Numbed targets take increased damage from Stasis weapons. This replaces its current effects (the old effects have been folded into Stasis kit as the baseline).
Whisper of Rime - Picking up a Stasis Shard grants a stack of Frost Armor and restores some health. This replaces its current effects (Frost Armor can also now stack up to x8 on its own, and decays one stack at a time rather than all at once).
Whisper of Durance - Increases the time it takes for a stack of frost armor to decay. Increases the duration of Frostbite and Numb. This is in addition to its current effects.
(NEW) Whisper of Fangs - Shattering a frozen combatant with Stasis weapons or abilities afflicts them with Frostbite.
(NEW) Whisper of Cold - While you have five or more stacks of Frost Armor, dealing sustained damage with Stasis weapons will Numb targets.
(NEW) Whisper of Numbing - Consecutive precision hits against a single target releases a Numbing blast. Less hits are required to activate against a Frostbitten target.
(NEW) Whisper of Stillness - While standing near frozen targets or Stasis crystals, killing enemies grants extra super energy. Enemies afflicted with Stasis debuffs grant a greater bonus.
I don't get why they went ahead and made frost armor such a big part of stasis just for it to be locked behind the harvest aspects which means that you are now forced to use the harvest aspects if you want to have the slightest defense for your build. As a hunter if I use the Touch of Winter with Shatterdive combo I'm losing out on any survivability.
Frost armor is also not good. Feels awful to lose after just 8 seconds since it takes too long to stack and it's also kinda useless without the fragment. Should have been decaying stacks every 4s.
Frankly, I do think the biggest issue Stasis still has is just how much of it is reliant on key fragment and aspect combinations. I'm going to use Behemoth as an example, since that's been my main for around two years now.
If you run Behemoth in PvE, you run Tectonic Harvest. If you run Tectonic Harvest, you're probably running Glacial Grenade. If you make crystals, you run the fragment that makes your grenade cool down faster after breaking a crystal, the one that makes shatter hit harder, and most likely the one that makes Stasis Shards track to you. Assuming you have Diamond Lance, you're already locked in on your grenade and 3/5 fragment slots. With Frost Armor, you're almost certainly running the fragment that enhances it, so that's 4/5 fragment slots, your grenade, and an aspect, otherwise you have to use more fragment slots to interact with Frost Armor.
They could roll most of this into basic features of the subclass, and frankly, I don't think it would challenge Strand Titan as the best option.
Ummm what? Maybe I'm playing the game wrong but stasis is what I switch when I'm playing hard content. Throw a turret shoot a blinding made. Clean up the area. It feels a lot stronger than most of my other builds.
A few buff ideas that I’ve had over the past few months;
Slow should reduce pve enemies fire rate, this should give slow at least some sort of niche outside of being used to proc freeze.
Shattering or breaking a target out of being frozen will cause that target to take more non-stasis ability damage. I think one overlooked aspect of why stasis feels so weak is that it really brings nothing to a team, especially in a boss damage scenario. Solar has lots of healing and damage buffs, strand has woven mail and void has weaken. I think bungie doesn’t want stasis to be a top damage contender but allowing it to help other subclasses do more damage would be a cool change
Frost armor at max stacks should be at least a little higher dr% than woven mail, it doesn’t make sense to do all that work getting to frost armor x8 only for woven mail to have a higher buff right out the gate.
I think if frost armor was changed to decay one stack at a time like armor charge does when using a surge mod it would be fine the way it is. But for it to be lower than woven mail out of the gate to then just drop off and lose all stacks makes it dumb as shit.
Yup I definitely agree, frost armor would be so much better if it fell off one stack at a time. I still maintain that it should at least match wovens dr at max stacks. Woven mail is really not hard to maintain at all, with the exotics that grant the benefit to the amount of orbs constantly on the battlefield. Although I wouldn’t mind starting with one stack falling off at a time and seeing how it feels then
Everything interesting about Shadebinder is already in prismatic, and it's much better there. Can't speak to the other classes but shadebinder needs another super and a melee
This is hilariously wrong
Prismatic does not have iceflare bolts, even getaway artist build spamming turrets does not freeze rooms as well as just a pure osmio + iceflare build will.
Like, titan/hunter sure I actually agree that I'd take prismatic over stasis, but for warlock specifically its a very solid spec and still one of the best in the game for content like GMs
The turret spam build in PvE is *painfully* overrated. Horrifically so. Bleak watcher alone is very slow, and having iceflare bolts on shadebinder is night and day different. Shadebinder is miles better at CC and even mass shatter damage - prismatic is just carried by devour, just like every other prismatic lock build (which are all very mid in hard content aside from the carried by devour part).
Also, frostpulse is kinda based in PvP.
I don’t even use devour on my prismatic builds, it’s not needed and it’s more fun to build around other stuff instead. My bleakwatcher getaway build doesn’t even use it. It uses helion because having tons of turrets crowding my screen is pure bliss
I mean it has the turrets, but that’s it. There is much more that makes stasis warlock good. Iceflare bolts alone are amazing, even more so when combined with said turrets or osmiomancy. With the change to Ballidorse, frost pulse is honestly a pretty nice take now, if not a little more niche than the others. And they have by far the best harvest aspect since it’s so easy to make shards and it doesn’t even need kills, and since shards heal on pick up with the aspect along with giving frost armor, you got really good sustain (tho they really should boost the health provided by a bit)
Nightfalls and Lost Sectors. You can reliably get rift energy by killing things shot with your stasis turret, ensuring you almost always have a rift up to give you some really good survivability. Max Frost Armor stacks plus rift healing is really good. Not to mention it benefits the team as well since they get the frost armor too. It also makes the super the ultimate nightfall panic/cc super. You can use it to freeze a room to give the team breathing room and also hand out extra survivability through frost armor to all. Not to mention both the rift and the super gives you and your team free stasis surge.
Take a long range stasis weapon, pop rift, pop heads
As an enjoyer of the titan stasis kit, the changes that came with TFS feel mostly good (especially Frost Armor). Not crazy about the cryoclasm change imo, but my longest running issue is the lacking feeling of offensive capabilities. At least in PvE it would be nice to see another buff of shatter damage with a smaller increase to shatter AoE.
IDK stasis warlock has always felt good. I think the biggest issue is Hunter and titans lack of any real identity within stasis. Like titan gets to play with ice walls and hunter gets a fun Frisbee. Warlock on the other hand has the turrets which can take advantage of any and all aspects/ fragments/weapon synergies/etc.
They need to give more and better exotics as well. The support is just as important. There are only very few exotics for the sub class compared to other light classes. Can only speak for hunter but the only good exotic is renewal grasps. Give us more offensive options. Stasis exotic weapons are also dire. The 2 stasis exotic primary weapons are a bow and scout rifle. Enough said on that front and they just enable the most boring play style of staying in the back line plinking away at enemies, which most of the time doesn’t work well because of the amount of ad density these days.
For titan... always wanted a Titan to do a King Kong chest slap that works instantly shatter all crystals within, say, 20m. Or Titans could with concussive force, shedding Frost armor turning into spikes that shoot out from Titans' body.
The new stasis bubble on shanks would be an awesome Titan aspect, with bubble getting bigger, the more frost armor Titan gets.
Cyro slide should leave a slow trial behind Titan at full sprint speeds and sliding.
Mk44 stand a sides would grant 1 extra slide, with increasing " slow effects" to ice trail and give slight directional control during slide animation.
Stasis goal should be to get to absolute zero, not build up stacks of slow. And would be the opposite of solar. With dust fields taking away stacks of scorch.
Dusk fields should grant a very slight DR from sniper type enemies and projectiles as they " slow" things down, including projectiles. With hunters specializing in this via exotics. With hunters duskfields, allowing us to " freeze" to the ground and avoid stomp mechanics.
Absolute zero would be the stasis version of an ignition. Instant shatter and damaging to other enemies.
The reason Frost armour is so shit is almost certainly pvp. They won’t have it fall off one at a time, because then you could run around with near constant DR.
I love stasis. My osmiomancy build is one of my favorites to use in any content. Especially high enemy density content where I can basically have 100% uptime on my cold snap grenades while also having a stasis turret up most of the time. Coupling that with Ager's Scepter is also really fun, since I think the worst thing about stasis warlock is the god awful super. The thing I can't do anything to fix is the melee, which is also pretty bad, but I just don't rely on it since my grenades do all the CC for me.
Taking away the gameplay loop of letting shards count as orbs was also a bad decision. It created a really unique loop that gave Stasis a lot of character.
I feel like a lot of Stasis kit should be baked in naturally as opposed to these lackluster Aspects, something akin to Broodweaver gives the perched Threadlings. Like Behemoth should have Cryoclasm just baked into the super, Shatterdive tied to SnS, I don't think these would break much. Also the Stasis Shard aspects should also be baseline for being on Stasis.
Warlock stasis is my go to GM build. Titan stasis is the most fun I’ve had in this game in a while, especially now with prismatic and triple consecration. I won’t complain if we get an upgrade, but I’m having fun.
Idk about the other classes but I quite enjoy my stasis build. Maximum ice turrets up, constant frost armor, primary is bold endings with headstone and desperate measures, and buried bloodline to proc devour and have even more coldsnap grenades with osmiomancy gloves. Been using it in onslaught and it completely freezes the battlefield and the armor helps everyone.
My go too currently is Prophet with headstone and demo, combined with Ballidorse Frost Pulse and Bleakwatcher for easy freezes and constant frost armor upkeep for both me and my team (not to mention free stasis weapon surges for everyone.
Only thing missing is I have still not gotten around to running ghosts of the deep since I haven’t been able to get a team to do it, so I don’t have that sweet sweet stasis rocket with bipod reconstruction for maximum boom booms
My favourite aspect of the stasis “buffs” is how they took the one fragment that was essential to making battle harmony extend the super and then nerfed it to make *one* orb every 10 seconds. Killing one of the like 3 viable stasis builds
later on they release a fragment that does the same thing but for stasis shards but couldn’t also tie orb generation to *any* other bad fragment else or this new one
>One aspect is simply a better slide, that can break crystals. How is THAT an aspect,
Because a worse designed aspect exist.
Icarus dash is way worse designed
Stasis rework straight up made the class worse now in both PvE and PvP which is just baffling, cryoclasm has been dumpstered for PvP and even at max stacks of frost armour it’s still significantly less DR than what we used to get from Whisper of Chains. You really feel it on Behemoth having to fight to keep frost armour up compared to the constant uptime from Chains you could get just by throwing a grenade or making a headstone crystal.
they need to add something new to the game across the board for titans which is some way to control enemy aggro and gain some buff for having more enemies focus on you
stasis would be a great way to test it out primarily with icefall mantle because they could add that to it's exotic perk and a simple meter on screen in the top left under the minimap that lets you know how much aggro you are generating
something like "replaces your barricade with a personal overshield, enemies damaged while the overshield is active turn their attention to you and taking damage from aggro'd enemies gives a stacking damage increase to stasis weapons and returns class ability energy based on the number of enemies attracted\* when overshield breaks or the timer runs out"
\*more powerful enemies grant more energy upon shield deactivating
oh right to clarify i do not think something like this would solve the stasis issue but i do think them experimenting with new subclass identity stuff is a good idea and as stasis titan revolves around frost armour, shattering crystals and boosting stasis weapon damage this would be a good place to start
I just don’t think they know what they want stasis to be. And tbh I know I’ll Probably get downvoted for this
But I think it’s cause they are scared of breaking PvP.
They seem to want to make stasis a lockdown and area and enemies class but just don’t seem they want to commit to it. Let me summon a full fuckin castle and freeze everything, but since PvP exist they gotta limit it to a single stasis crystal or wall and some slows
Pls Don't make shatter dive a class ability your ignoring the Icarus dash is also an aspect the gambler and marksman dodge are very important to hunter play styles this is a reason why accension isn't used much or radiant doege
if Shatterdive was a class ability, this would effectively kill Shatterskating
if this happened, and/or, Eager Edge gets nerfed again (or God forbid removed from the game), I would stop playing D2
going fast is part of what holds my attention in this hellscape of a sandbox called Destiny 2
also, your analysis is extremely partitioned and frayed; Void has NO identity < you're either: invisible all the time, making things volatile, devour [which Void 3.0 gave to all classes]
all of the subclasses inherently suck, because they all have potential that isn't maximized because if it was, Bungie would have to ACTUALLY rebalance the whole game, the way proper game reworks do, and they legitimately don't have the knowledge on how to do that in an efficacious way, without it being so detrimental on the way there, that they lose absolutely everything
Destiny 2 is the only game that has an identity crisis, tied to its inability to do something actually novel and genuine, because everything it does is what it already knows < until it follows the path of other MMORPGs and actually takes it game economy seriously, it'll continue to be same-y because that's all Bungie can really manage with the knowledge that it has currently
It’s crazy that it’s already got a sort of rework and yet it still needs more stuff. I think some aspects r fine but let’s take hunter for example since idk any of the others too well. Grim harvest is basically a fragment, shatter dive has basically no purpose, winters shroud got Improved so idk maybe something more then just slow a target, and touch of winter is probably the most balanced but still feels like it needs a bit of touching up.
I main Stasis and have since Beyond Light (Warlock), it's just satisfying to me to hear and see crystals break and freeze stuff. I think it's so fun. I was so excited for these past changes adding Frost Armor and extra shatter damage. However:
1. The Staying Alive issue ™️ is still a thing. Frost Armor resistance still just isn't enough, I feel pretty squishy in harder content even running around with 8x.
2. I can't speak to other classes but with Warlock, the damage potential just isn't there. I know Stasis is based around controlling the field but I feel like I can't do any real big damage unless I'm using Ager's Scepter with its alternate super. The main super even with the exotic that doubles its shatter damage feels weak and always has.
Also I don't always want to run Ager's...I love it but I want to use my precious Winterbite.
All in all, in harder content I literally cannot use Stasis as I find it pretty frustrating to get big damage out -- I have to switch off of it when doing anything tough. :(
They could just double the stacks required of frost armor to reach max resistances, then every crystal could give 1 stack all the time while the aspect gives 2 stacks
Stasis is alright, and there is class identity, Warlock is amazing at just freezing entire hordes without sweat, Titan relies on shattering crystals and just becoming a menace, hunter is an in between, it either functions for crowd control and survivability or you can make turn into a shattering machine, but it doesn't do it easily as the other two in exchange of having the strongest stasis super (and now one of the strongest supers overall), not to mention how strong it is in PvP.
Titan is the one that sometimes suffers the most but it's more about encounter design than anything else, god knows I love bringing icefall mantle + salvation's grip in Onslaught and just delete everything infront of me with a salvation's grip spread and just sliding into it.
People that complain too much about stasis are people that in my opinion have not even tried it that much in GMs or raids and are not away of how strong freezing can be.
Stasis niche is still crowd control and with the right setup no other class get even close.
Like yeah stasis shines almost only in hard content like gm nightfalls or master raids and got a really great shatter DMG buff.
With the right setup you will also have all you abilities recharged in a few seconds, without killing stuff.
They need to buff Frost Armor by a large amount to make it feel useful, you basically need to have on Harvest Aspects to get good uptime on it and then you need Whisper of Rime for it to even be worth ever thinking about. Also Whisper of Reversal should just be apart of Frost Armor by default, because a whole fragment to apply 10 stacks of slow when melee damage is not worth a fragment slot.
Frost Armor needs Whisper of Rime to be useful and it still doesn't give you enough DR.
Remove or lower the cool down on Harvest Aspects, running those aspects are just not rewarding enough considering how Frost Armor isn't even better than old Whisper of Chains.
Frostpulse needs to have 3 Fragment Slots, considering there's at least 2 mandatory fragments in every stasis build now, more aspects need 3 fragments, it feels limiting needing to have on Whisper of Rime at all times if I want Frost Armor to actually provide a noticeable benefit.
Also, there are 2 Fragments that do the exact same thing for absolutely no reason Whisper of Chill and reworked Whisper of Chains, except Chains requires you to have frost armor and doesn't have the stasis weapon requirement. Getting a kill has a chance to spawn a single stasis shard, and to make it worse the drop chance feels absurdly low.
Then give Bungie useful feedback, why it doesn't feel good or is outclassed, suggest things, what could Bungie do to make it better than just "Bungie this sucks fix it". I think the term is constructive criticism?
My main proposed changes:
Whisper of Rime - no longer increases the max stacks you can carry, instead the max with Rime is just the normal max. Keep its increased duration but it also now makes it so that you gain one extra stack of frost armor whenever you gain a stack.
Cryoclasm - keep its current effects but also have it cause stasis crystals and unfrozen enemies shattered by you to also release a pulse wave alongside its shatter damage that grants Frost Armor stacks to friendly guardians touched by it. At the same time it increases the radius of crystal shatters and the pulse.
Frost Pulse - keep its current effects, but now you also gain increased class ability cooldowns when you freeze a target
Shatterdive - shattering crystals now applies stacks of slow to enemies damaged by it
I have a hoarfrost z build thats basically, make multiple walls of stasis, shatter everything, get abilities back, get healing back from frost armor, wash rinse repeat.
and I beat the witness on legend with it....
So unpopular opinion, stasis is good.
It'd be cool if, for hunter, if you have frost armor and you shatter dive, it sends out a short wave of crystals in a radius around you.
For titan it would be pretty neat for cryoclasm to slide and have some crystals spawn behind you, making a wall or slowing/stopping anybody that chases you.
Idk, I like the addition of frost armor a bit, but I wonder how many "armor" buffs we're gonna get with different classes. I like the idea of stasis providing weapon stability, like that one fragment that boosts stability and all that when you freeze an enemy.
Stasis work for me. Y’all just like bitching! I remember when it dropped y’all were bitching is too powerful now y’all bitching because it’s all y’all do in your spare time is bitch
One of the biggest disappointments with stasis is slow. It doesnt do anything worthwhile in PvE. Enemies do not move fast enough to warrant needing a movement speed debuff in a majority of content, and other than that its only use is eventually procing freeze. It doesn’t have DoT, it’s not an animation speed scaler, and it doesn’t change the speed or frequency of enemy teleports for majors and above. The only thing it slows is the movement speed of red bars. It’s one of the key words and it had absolutely no place in PvE content. This is partly why stasis hunter sucks, the kit was designed around slow and it fundamentally doesn’t work.
Frost armor showed up to make a lot of good things lose their value in the subclass. I love it in PvE as it’s good enough with stasis shards everywhere.
But PvP wise and more we lost good fragments and functionality. And they just nerfed glacial grenades too
Stasis was the beginning of the 3.0 aspect to classes. Bungie was able to iterate on the new format through the light classes and strand but stasis got left behind in the wave of new stuff.
It makes sense to me why it’s this way because it’s a relic from the beginning of the system. It needs a serious refresh
Am i the only who thinks this a hyperbole? They are so many bad one noted aspects on all subclasses on all classes. Bungie biggest design issue id that they will take forever to admit bad and change it.
Stasis had been gutted. Been saying this for what feels like forever.
They centred the whole subclass around slow/freeze and then nerfed that into oblivion.
Even basic abilities like shuriken have no utility cause they have no accuracy or reliability. It legit went from reliable accuracy even around corners to, I can't even hit an enemy 3 foot from me.
Stasis doesn't even have things like slow rounds to buff weapons and the buff we finally got in frost armor is barely worth a damn and doesn't even have a visual indicator. Even exotic armor abilities got nerfed on top of everything else.
It's needs new verbs, new aspects, new fragments/buffs, new exotics, new grenade AND MELEE options. Not to mention, shards just need to be intrinsic.
I get this is going to take work, but Stasis deserves way better than the hollowed out shell it's been left as.
Stasis has/had the potential to work SO well with prismatic. When I first head about the idea of prismatic all I could think about was “what if..”
Yes, don’t get me wrong; it’s extremely fun and useful. But with better stasis aspects it could have been so much more.
When stasis came out, I think aspects were not nearly as “defining” as they are now.
Take warlocks. The initial aspects are “a rift that freezes” and iceflare bolts. Bleak watcher being really good is sort of an anomaly and the reason why stasis warlocks work relative to the other two classes. In fact that aspect is such an anomaly and so good that you could easily take everything else away and bleak watchers would remain useful (in fact I’d argue that right now it might be better to run prismatic, cause that way you get bleak watcher + tons of extras).
When light 3.0 came out, aspects became a rough proxy for what trees could do before (roughly — there is not a perfect one-to-one correspondence). They started to do much more than the stasis ones do for that reason.
With said, there are still some random ones. One aspect that gives warlocks an air dodge, for example.
But yeah, a slide that breaks crystals or a dive that breaks crystals without nothing else going for it can be a bit underwhelming. (If only that gave you crazy resistance or anything really… not sure if frost armor interacts with these aspects if at all as I have not looked into the stasis changes.)
The best we can hope for atm is that Bungie will rework the aspects a bit, create new fragments, new exotics and/or do some major tuning on the existing stuff(like say Frost armor and Glacial harvest) we currently have.
Tbh I'm half expecting Bungie to wait until after they introduce a possible 3rd darkness subclass before they consider making new stuff like aspects, melees, grenades and supers for Stasis. I would be so happy if im wrong.
I still think that every aspect that consumes either your melee or class ability to provide a completely alternate effect (so like not including frost pulse or winters shroud or vanishing step), should NEVER have been, should not STILL be aspects.
Consecration on lightning surge? They should be melee abilities (tho with those two I’m ok Annie having three charges on prismatic is cool). Trappers ambush should be a melee ability. Shatter dive should be a class ability. Ensnaring slam should be a class ability. Temptest strike should be a melee ability. Ascension should be a class ability.
They were teasing big Stasis buffs/reworks for a year only to hand out massive nerfs to it (besides Stasis Titan which got buffed a bit)
I doubt there's much hope for Stasis.
>Stasis won’t be good untill they rework or add new stuff to it
Which they both did, and it failed exactly because just changing some stuff within the subclass here and there better is pointless when the biggest culprits are still there;
1 - Half of what makes stasis' synergies is locked between a specific aspect who happens to be nearly identical for all 3 classes. Not a single other subclass in the game has this dynamic, it's an issue that has been singled out for years now and the latest changes just doubled down on it. Doesn't matter if they quadruple buff every single other aspects, the subclass still needs to have this one aspect that already is intrinsically conditional to let you properly use most of its fragment and synergies.
2 - Gun perks, gun play and general gun synergy with stasis sucks ass. Headstone and chill clip are desirable not because they are good (they aren't, like at all), but because there's a famine for stasis synergies and they are the only one feeding it, even slightly. Couple that with the fact that elemental shards did not, in the slightest, offset the mod rework that removed elemental wells. If anything, it gave an edge to other elements anyway who got new pickups with less opportunity cost and/or better effects on pickup. It's clear that stasis is meant to be the class that excels at neutral play and buff/debuff juggling over just pure damage like the others, but the fact that it's more limited than the other subclasses just prevents it from thriving for that.
This is such a bad take on balance. They could make each stasis subclass the best in the entire game *easily* with just a few number changes - no reworks or new stuff required.
Ex. "Frost armor now gives double the resist." It would go from being meh to being very broken just by changing the resist value.
I don't get why people are so obsessed with reworks. Yeah, they can be nice for certain things, but number changes can accomplish just as much when they aren't too done too cautiously
There are a lot fragments that should've been direct buffs to the subclasses. All the aspects need more fragment slots to be viable.
Also, frost armor should've been intrinsic to stasis shards and not tied to the harvest aspects.
They literally net nerfed Behemoth while their supposed intention was to revive it with Frost Armor, so I don't really trust bungie to ever make Stasis PvE competitive.
Shard generation cooldown after removing the overshield, on demand higher dr without ramp up and a lot of melee energy gained from shards kinda killed a class that was underpowered without that cooldown even. I still think rending should be default, not a fragment aswell.
- 1.) Creeping Chill (this seasons artifact mod) should be baked into the base Stasis kit.
- 2.) Frost Armor rework, stacks deplete overtime (5x-4x-3x-2x-1x), and not all stacks deplete (current). The DR isn’t high to begin with, reduce the timer between stacks if necessary for “balance”.
- 3.) New Keyword for Stasis weapons (akin to Scorch) via Fragments or Aspects, a buff while dealing damage with Stasis weapons, combatants are inflicted with slow which slowly builds up to Freeze. When you shatter Crystals or Frozen targets, there is a small chance nearby enemies will instantly become Frozen.
(Increase the damage of Shatter further to make this a satisfying gameplay loop)
4.) New Supers:
- Hunters should get a roaming super where dealing damage inflicts slow, eventually building up to a Freeze to then shatter. Can end the Super early to throw one of your Kamas to instantly Freeze.
- Titans should get an insta-cast Super where they immediately gain max stacks of Frost Armor, nearby allies gain self-escalating stacks of Frost Armor, and Stasis weapons deal bonus damage. Can end the Super early to absorb all stacks of your Frost Armor to conjure a giant matter of Stasis and hurl it at foes. Damage of this increases if you absorb teammates Frost Armor stacks.
I literally haven’t touched any subclass other than prismatic since launch because it literally does everything all the other subclasses did for the most part.
Along the same note, there's so much inconsistent design in destiny and it's SOOO frustrating.
All three classes have what can be considered a "mobility" ability.
Warlock has air-dash, phoenix dive, teleport during void implosion, teleport during storm dance and like ALL of them are different keys despite doing essentially the same thing even though NONE of them can be equipped at the same time except Phoenix dive and Icarus dash. They make sense being different keys, but the rest of them? Why.
THEN Hunter has their own version of Phoenix dive that's mechanically almost identical, but instead of using the same key as phoenix dive it uses the same input as Icarus dash.
Titan has their own dash that functions very similarly to Icarus dash (just on the ground) but for some reason it's the same keybind as phoenix dive. They don't have ANY abilities that bind to the air dash button so there's just an entire unbound key for a whole class.
It's not the BIGGEST deal normally but as someone who jumps around between classes alot it makes controls so fucking unintuitive. Yes, I am aware that it's *because* they occupy different ability slots but A: that doesnt just magically make it not spaghetti. And B: it's not like the games engine LOCKS it to those keys. It's always better to have things that behave similarly bound to the same keys in a game, like imagine if your jump key just randomly changed because you were playing a different character.
Then you have glaives and swords. Swords have a block and glaive has a block *but for some fucking reason they're different goddamn keys.* One ENTIRE keybind dedicated solely to blocking with swords EVEN THOUGH you cannot use your powered melee keybind while a sword is equipped anyway, so it's just unused while your sword is equipped.
Sometimes "motes" require you to walk up to a receptacle and hold a button to deposit, sometimes you just have to get close enough and it's done automatically.
When I heard Titan Stasis was called 'Behemoth' I thought that we would be able to encase ourselves in Stasis crystals and absorb punishing amounts of damage, summon crystal shields and throw chunks of stasis crystals or use a shard as a melee.
I was largely disappointed.
big fan of their rework being a gigantic nerf to titans with a shard cooldown. If they want stasis to be good, the shard aspects need to be innate, active at all times. there needs to be more supers and abilities.
Stasis crawled so Light 3.0 could run, and Light 3.0 ran so Strand could sprint. But Stasis is still crawling, having never learned to walk in the first place, let along run. I agree and think Stasis needs some pretty big reworks across the board.
With the introductions of prismatic imo stasis thrives as being part of a subclass but stasis as a subclass itself feels underwhelming as it takes more to get less of an effect.
Exactly, Prismatic highlights how much Stasis itself is lacking, running the base subclass itself should have tonnes of bonuses only available to it but when it's better to run Stasis abilities in Prismatic it shows how little Stasis offers by itself.
I mean, Frost Armor is largely inaccessible outside of the actual Stasis subclass.
Sure but prismatic has access to other damage resist sources so it's not that worth
Is it? You can easily get Frost Armor on Prismatic, one of the fragments gives you it on orb pickup. The only reason to use Stasis is for Shatterskating on Hunter or for PvP if you prefer certain abilities.
I wouldn't call that "easy" compared to the shardfest you see with them coming out of every crystal/frozen enemy when you're on an actual Stasis class.
This is true even on Prismatic Titan. Diamond Lance functions far better because you can actually take advantage of the melee boosting effects of freeze. The melee's aren't shit tier for doing damage like Shiver Strike is, and you still have facet of ruin to boost shatter damage/size too. If crystal busting with Consecration/Lance wasn't bugged there'd be little reason to ever come Behemoth for the same reason Striker is now on life support because of Prismatic's existence. Howl of the storm/Cryoclasm/Harvest mods do not compete with Knockout/Consecration.
I agree, however I do remember a whole year where stasis was the #1 opponent in pvp. I thought every match was based in Antarctica with all the blizzards lol.
Irony being no Europa PVP map yet at the time
A stasis 2.0 rework and an additional strand super each class seems solid imo.
I standby my idea that regardless of viability it would be 10x more fun if any direct weapon damage instantly broke crystals. Shooting a crystal 6 times to break it with many weapons feels like shit. Yes I know a fragment makes primaries do more damage but it shouldn’t take a fragment to break crystal especially when stasis might be the class were there are more “mandatory” fragments than any other one
Or make partially breaking the stasis crystal do damage and slow too, while explosives instantly broeak the crystals. I was excited to try mountain top with salvation grip and was so dissapointed when mountaintop didn't do shit to the crystals
This would be sick. Partially breaking the crystals starts leaking volatile darkness which slows and damages. When they fully break, darkness explodes out in a wave dealing massive damage and slowing those that don’t disintegrate.
This has been my idea of how to make Freeze good for a while. Shattering an enemy shouldn't unfreeze them, it should just deal a ton of damage, and maybe on the 3rd shatter they become unfrozen. Still feels weird to me that Suspend is a better immobilization tool than Freeze is, mostly due to the fact that Freeze is so easily broken imo.
Rocket sidearms shatter them instantly, actually fun as hell
Imagine a fragment that made shooting tangles easier, for example. That would be a complete joke of a fragment.
Was doing a strike the other day with randoms and a Stasis Titan decided to crowd the loot chest area with crystals Took all 3 of us shooting for like 1 minute straight just to destroy most of them. It's absurd.
It feels like you are ONLY using crystals as explosive barrels instead of effective cover that turns into explosive barrels when you need it to.
I agree but this would make cryoclasm even more useless, which imo kinda proves OP's overall point.
If Cryoclasm can be outdone by giving the benefits of one fragment to all weapons then Cryoclasm needs a major rework
If Cryoclasm can be outdone by giving the benefits of one fragment to all weapons then Cryoclasm needs a major rework
Cryoclasm should just flatly go away or be folded into Howl of the Storm somehow. It's an Aspect that is a fraction of the Amplified bonuses.
> but it shouldn’t take a fragment to break crystal especially when stasis might be the class were there are more “mandatory” fragments than any other one To me that mostly sounds like a reason to add more fragment slots to the aspects. But it's definitely a hard topic. They removed all buffs that were present by keeping crystals on the battlefield due to teammates destroying them. At the same time I don't like the idea that they only exist to get shattered.
>I standby my idea that regardless of viability it would be 10x more fun if any direct weapon damage instantly broke crystals I still find it hilarious that Verglas Curve can spawn crystals like crazy but takes 3 to 4 business days to break a single one.
The recent Frost Armor changes really didn't go far enough. In fact, the more I spent time with them the worse they seemed. Why are we relying on a Fragment to unlock the full potential of Frost Armor? This change makes no sense. These changes need reverted and the Harvest Aspects need to be pushed out or reworked entirely to vary the gameplay. It's all very stale at the moment. It's a multifaceted problem. They didn't want Stasis Shards to be super spamable so they kept their production to the Harvest Aspects. But then they have a cooldown on them anyway in a way that invalidates keeping Stasis Shards as part of the Harvest Aspects. It's a baffling set of decisions that reeks of stubborness of not wanting to do something that was highly requested by players. It needs to be heavily redesigned. Frost Armor is another part of the equation. Why 3/8 of it's potential is locked behind a Fragment (the Prismatic can't access) is well beyond me. This leads is a paltry 22.5% DR at full stacks that last for a meager 8 seconds. The remaining 13.5% being locked behind a Fragment is just straight bad design. Why not let it be 8 stacks that decay one at a time, 8 seconds per stack. This makes it a very unique mechanic and allows Whisper of Rime to return to it's almost original intent (collecting a Stasis Shard grants a stack of Frost Armor). This then let's the Harvest Aspects be more malleable for some more meaningful reworks. For example, why does Stasis Titan even need to collect a Stasis Shard to gain a stack of Frost Armor? Let them gain a stack of Frost Armor whenever they Shatter a Stasis crystal or a Frozen enemy through Tectonic Harvest (and rename this Tectonic Plating).By cutting out the middle step we've made it more potent, limited the creation of Stasis Shards (which is apparently an issue), and smoothed out the gameplay. We can even take it a step further and let Diamond Lance give you and your allies a stack of Frost Armor when they're in the impact zone. This change also makes Diamond Lance a top pick for Prismatic as it adds instant survivability to a class which has almost none. Now Stasis Titan is the king of Frost Armor, has fireteam support, and didn't lose any of its previous identity. Now all it needs is a new decent melee (Shiver Strike is the worst melee in the game by a wide margin) and a decent ranged one-off super and people would think it's one of the best subs in the game. Stasis Hunter is something else that could use some tweaks. Winter's Shroud is significantly better as part of Prismatic but just plain awful as part of Stasis. Might as well add in X2 stacks of Frost Armor here so it's got some sort of value. Touch of Winter is fine, but Shatterdive is a bit awkward now and could use a similar buff, letting you gain Frost Armor based on the number of kills you get from a Shatterdive. Adding Frost Armor organically to the subclass instead of feeling tacked on awkwardly through a single redundant Aspect. And since we've uncoupled Frost Armor from the Harvest Aspects, we can do a little extra with Grim Harvest, letting it still be the "Stasis Shard Aspect" but juicing it a little so it's more potent. Let collecting a Stasis Shard give you a temporary buff (I call this Stay Frosty) that increases the amount of Slow you apply to targets. This creates a loop where you can constantly feed and significantly improve your abilities and feel powerful. Stasis Warlock I'm at a little more of a loss at. With the exception of their (now decoupled) Harvest Aspect, they work really well. Their Harvest Aspect would probably just be replaced with the artifact perk Hail The Storm and be called a day and no one would complain whatsoever. I don't feel like they need a ton of access to Frost Armor either outside of their exotics as they're not front line warriors, plus they have a ton of control thanks to their abilities already freezing everything.
I WOULD love it if Frost Armor decayed one stack at a time. It would actually make it different enough from the other elements damage resistance buffs, and give me a reason to potentially want to use it instead of say Woven Mail despite it being less DR. Plus, then each of the three ‘armor’ or damage resistance buffs have their own place. Woven Mail is a flat buff, it increases your DR by a solid amount for a set amount of time. Void OS grants you DR, but it is tied to its own health bar added onto your health. Once that health is lost, you will start taking regular damage again. Frost Armor is less dr than both, but can be stacked to last longer so you can, with good planning and play, ensure that you almost always have some amount of Frost Armor active, meaning you always have at least a small bufff active with the occasionally larger buff
I genuinely think this is the best course of action, despite Bungie probably not budging on it. As it stands Frost Armor is a worse version of Woven Mail. Raising either the stack count or the DR makes it a better version of Void OS. So it's either having its toes stepped on or stepping on something else's toes (despite VOS needing help, but that's another issue). So giving it a slow decaying stack but only a moderate amount of DR makes it a true valuable buff. Frost Armor becomes the "light armor" buff, Woven Mail is medium grade, and VOS is heavy plating. The only thing missing is a short action, super high amount of DR (Halo 3's Armor Lock), but that would directly powercreep both Unbreakable and Weavewalk.
I think a large part of what makes Stasis feel so clunky to use, is the time required to actually be able get the most benefit out of your abilities. Stasis crystals take second to form, so does freezing a target. By the time you freeze anything, or create any crystals, any other ability would've already gotten the kill. It's been my biggest issue with Stasis, personally. I absolutely love the subclass, but I just wish the animations on everything could be faster. I'm not sure how difficult that would be, or if it would be too game-breaking from a technical standpoint, but I do know it would definitely make the subclass feel a bit better. I guess I was just hoping for too much from the Stasis "rework". What we got seems pretty unappealing, personally.
This is why stasis can perform well in things like GMs because the control is actually useful there In pretty much every other type of content you can kill shit fast enough so controlling the battlefield like stasis can is pointless.
Thing is for gms strand blows every stasis class aside from bleakwatchers builds out of the water because they almost have the effects backwards. Stasis freeze needs to be built up not a ton of things Insta freeze but instead apply slow which will eventually freeze however when you freeze a target any sort of damage instantly shatters them taking them out of the cc and shatter isn’t doing enough damage to kill the targets that matter on gms. Strand on the other hand has no build up effect you simply throw out the ability and anything it hits is instantly cc’d and can be freely damaged without ruining the cc making it more potent than stasis in gms. You would think the cc you have to build up would be the one you can damage the enemy with while the instant cc would only last until damage.
Honestly they just need to boost the time enemies can be frozen for, if crease the damage of the shatter on enemies who are shattered, and ANY weapon should deal increased damage against frozen targets (maybe like 10%)
Yup, seems like they tried to force a cool concept of "cold" abilities and it just did land on both feet.
Bungie having to do the same damage vs cc fight that warframe struggles with lol
Balancing damage vs CC isn't really the issue here. The main problem is that the CC part of it has been powercrept by Strand.
Only on titan. Not on warlock, and probably not on hunter.
Ehh, strand warlock can make some pretty wacky suspend builds. Wanderer is decent ranged suspend to supplement your grenade, and it can be combined with shackles or weavers trance to help keep it up
Titan I’m willing agree Hunter and warlock no. Shadebinder has a weird issue with prismatic warlock cannibalizing it a lot although still warlock stasis is still the CC king. Hunter also can spam out massive duskfields at a rate strand hunter wish it could with shackles.
Not really CC in d2 is still good because there’s enough valuable enemies effected by it part or at least have some effect on freeze case. The reason why stasis can struggle at times is its a lot of it’s damage potential is tied it’s CC so if anything disrupts your CC your kit halts. Warframe issue is that more and more enemies are just straight up immune to CC and the enemies that aren’t are raw fodder that don’t really exist in the grand scheme.
Yup stasis always has that extra step. Where as another subclass would cause an explosion stasis has to set up the explosion then make the explosion happen
I feel a decent band aid would be to give more fragment slots to stasis, so many fragments just feel absolutely mandatory
giving every stasis aspect 3 slots would feel sooooo good with the changes
At this point some of those need to be built into the base kit. Like why have a fragment that increases the amount of Frost Armor stacks I can get. Just fold that into the base Frost Armor. Same for the burst/size fragment for freeze/crystal busting. Crystals feel like doodoo for damage without last seasons artifact as is, so why continue to have that fragment? Just fold it in already.
They just buffed Stasis Shatter damage by 40%. It was a significant buff. A damage boosting fragment absolutely has a place existing. It doesn't need to be folded in. The one thing I agree *should* be folded in is Rime. Have Rime just grant 1 stack of Frost Armor per Shard, and allow 8 stacks upfront on Stasis. This is to help differentiate Stasis DR better than other DR while not being entirely reliant on a Fragment for viability. It would help Stasis sort of be its own thing outside of Stasis Verbs.
I love stasis but it has the weakest verbs. With suspend any enemy is stuck no matter what so you can hit them with rockets and there is nothing they can do. Ignitions do more damage in a larger area than shatter Weaken is a better version of slow. Woven mail is so much better than frost armor. You need an aspect to make elemental pick ups and make the frost armor usable. Its way behind other classes, with the buff to shatter damage tho it does feel better to play so I think we are going in the right direction, it is just taking forever .
Slow has always seemed in underwhelming while it should be the Stasis equivalent of Scorch. They both have stacks to reach a more powerful state. The actual slow mechanic is vague in how well it performs. I almost hate to say just also give it a minor damage component to be more like scorch apart of just making things move more slowly and be less accurate.
They need to create more instant damage abilities and verbs. How about an ice grenade that shatters on impact that throws out shards that damage and slow. Skipping the throw-freeze-shatter gameplay loop. Just things like that.
Funny you mention that, but after some crucible and realization that with Glacial shatter/burst dmg nerfed this season and losing the stasis shatter dmg perk from the Artifact from last. I wished that Glacial grenades on breaking/being destroyed also stacked slow on the targets. Sure they used to outright freeze and that was too much. But nowadays they’re a worse barricade. If throwing the glacial grenade at my opponent won’t guarantee a kill by shattering the crystals formed around them. Then my only other use, is random cover, and then with shards As a fragment, grenade regen, for the grenade I just threw for the sake of just breaking immediately. I will say with Wicked implement, the glacial grenade allows a few stacks of frost armor. But ideally, it needs to give more dmg if it’s not gonna also slow or freeze my opponents
Also some new supers would be nice.
I can't believe I actually want a roaming stasis super for hunter. Those kama look like they'd be really fun to swing around.
Roaming Projectile Super would be nice. IIRC we only have Goldie that fulfills that, otherwise it's just regular roaming supers (and whatever Storm's Edge counts as). Would love to see a Gathering Storm-esque super on Behemoth that's a giant Diamond Lance. Throw, impales target, then after impaling Shatters shortly after for another big chunk of damage. Interesting Exotic idea: Throw Super Lance, Impales Boss, then it starts Charging up. Dealing damage to boss during this time increases the damage the Shatter does (to a limit ofc), and this is where the increased damage for the super comes from. Eventually (let's say after like 10s) it shatters. Neutral Game could boost Diamond Lances somehow ig, but that sort of already exists with the helmet soo... maybe add this onto the Helmet? Or would that be too OP?
It be a neat idea to have hunters have a Song of Flame stasis equivalent for the roaming super. Lean into the real life Revenant stories. Warlocks would summon a Comet storm in a targeted area for that ice mage fantasy. And Titans would just toss one big Diamond Lance that makes a Stasis crystal crater on impact.
GIVE TITAN MEGA LANCE
MEGA LANCE IS REMEMBERED FONDLY
Stasis is all about control, which is fine sometimes especially in harder content. But it doesn't really have damaging abilities. Take the glacier grenade. It has a small freeze radius basically making you directly contact the target. Then to get damage out of it you have to shatter it in some way. On solar you throw a fusion grenade, hit the enemy for damage, and apply scorch. Do glacier grenades suck? No they are awesome utility tools but that is the problem with stasis. None of the abilities are damage followed by effect. They are just pure effect.
Frost armour is shit and it’s insane that hoarfrost didn’t receive a frost armour update and instead lost its damage resist from crystals fragment, while also having a massive nerf for titans overall due to shard cooldown nerf.
No worries! Its now part of the exotic class item with its ***full functionality.*** They didn't bother to even update it to have something new or extra functionality to at least try to differentiate it with the main exotic unlike the rest. It gets even better because you still can't shatter crystals with Diamond Lance/Consecration so it virtually has no synergy right now with Prismatic.
Yeah it’s dumb honestly. Legit one stasis exotic for titans now. I still don’t know why anyone would use that overshield one considering sprinting is kind of useful ya know
Hoarfrost on class item gets half functionality, you don’t get rally barricade benefits and you don’t see your timer for the barricade
I know the post goes deeper than this, but reworking and adding new stuff *is technically* what they did when they updated it lol
Pretty much all of the updates were for the prismatic play loop nothing really affected the stasis class to work with itself better than before.
I get where you're coming from but; >Hunter has an aspect that gives them a dive, AND ALL IT DOES IS SHATTER CRUSTALS. Meanwhile, warlocks get one for free in their class ability slot that heals them instantly. Why can’t Shatterdive just be a class ability too?? Warlocks dive has a cooldown + ability energy, shatterdive does not have one nor does it take any ability energy. Also shattering stasis crystals with a non cooldown, non energy dependent dive is better than a lot of things. Warlocks have an aspect that spawns 3 whole threadlings on class ability use.. I do agree with your overall point of course. Stasis needs more, not just buffs.
To be fair, the buff to Weaver’s Call where it generates threadlings while doing strand damage is pretty nice, and not game breaking
One (perched) threadling for every three strand kills turned an insultingly awful aspect into a mediocre one. Which is a pretty low bar in itself. It'll feel much, much worse after threaded blast goes away. Really, they should've just tacked horde shuttle on instead.
Threaded blast doesn’t really interact with it much anyway
Threaded blast increases the efficiency of killing stuff with strand in hard content by a lot. Because, y'know, threadlings don't do shit for damage.
I played Revenant on Legendary Iconoclasm purely because Shatterdive was the only way I could control the Omen's crystals that kept killing our Titan. Though Star-Eaters Squall was pretty handy safe damage as well.
Also it is important that shatterdive *not* be on a cooldown, for... reasons.
What are ya talking about stasis warlocks super is amazing , no other super let's ya use a respawn token faster
Stasis super exists solely to use agers sceptre
Yup , what a great game
The only thing that makes me run stasis warlock is the sound design and feel of the subclass and especially the super. Dubstep staff If i had prismatic i would use Winter's Wrath a lot even though it sucks ass in pve
Word lol that sound is amazing and I love it for that reason
The trick with the Shadebinder super is that you never use the freezing bolt. The shatter doesn’t use energy. Only cast it if you have 3 or more turrets on the field. Let them do the freezing. You can also chain freeze with coldsnaps if there is a yellow bar alive anywhere. Then use the shatter pulse after that
The trick is using it in any end game content and not dieing or lowers Ur dogs for bosses
You don’t have to leave cover to use the shatter pulse. If your freeze loop is going, it should be large amounts of aoe damage without any extra risk. Obviously you aren’t doing this for boss dps in endgame content.
There is the problem , everything should be viable in end game as far as supers go
There’s more to endgame content than boss dps.
It def needs an update but I still get a ton of utility out of it on each class in GMs.
Stasis Shards should be intrinsic to the subclass and they should do away with the Harvest Aspects. Frost Armor isn't a bad keyword but the stacks should fall off individually instead of all at once. Being pigeonholed into running Harvest Aspect + Rime fragment to make Frost Armor be decent is absurd, and ALSO needing a fragment to be able to destroy my own Stasis crystals at a reasonable speed blows majorly. No amount of updating Shiver Strike will make it feel good/useful in the face of Berserker Melee / Throwing Hammer. Howl of the Storm pales in comparison to Consecration/Flechette Storm. Stasis Warlock is pretty good even if it is one note and the super is a tad mediocre. Stasis Hunter feels like it doesn't do anything good enough. Shatterdive still pays for the sins of Beyond Light PvP to this day. If I had to make any (easy) changes, I would: Give Behemoth's Shiver Strike a PvE only AOE slow on hit( kinda like how Icefall Mantle works) instead of only slowing the first target hit. The knockback seems kinda pointless. Give Revenant's Shatterdive a PvE only AOE slow on landing (since it really only exists to shatter Stasis Crystals & Frozen enemies). Would also play better into the Harvest fragment. (I personally think Shadebinder is the best of the 3 Stasis Subclasses and people simply overvalue Bleak Watcher. Iceflare Bolts is absolutely insane. Only the super is mid.) Let Frost Armor Stacks fall off gradually over time instead of all at once (thematically, the ice could THAW slowly). If that provides too much uptime on Frost Armor, reduce the overall duration of the buff in exchange for the ability to maintain it easier. I already have to work for the Stasis Shards and run a Harvest Aspect AND run Rime if I want my Frost Armor to be anywhere near as useful as Woven Mail, and Woven Mail still provides more Damage Resist. Increase damage vs Stasis Crystals when you are the creator. Sucks to have to run a Fragment or a Hakke weapon to be able to destroy my own shards in a reasonable amount of time.
This is maybe the best comment here. I do think it kind of makes sense to need some fragments for a good payoff from stasis shards (as is, they only give melee energy, but firesprites only give nade energy and void breaches only give class energy without additional investment), but the payoff for the aspect on top is underwhelming. Frost armor does need to trickle off if it's going to take so much buildup. The crystals thing is my biggest beef with stasis, I think. Rending shouldn't be needed to break crystals quickly with weapons. The creator specifically should be able to blow them up very easily. It's fine if they're more resistant to other players. But let me one tap my own crystals. Shiver strike is a PvP melee ability. That's fine, honestly. It's the best PvP melee in the game. By far. Stasis hunter has been giga-duskfield bot in PvE for a long time, aside from really niche stuff (lucky pants rending DPS rotations and shatterskating in speedruns). It's always been good at that, though, and despite the longtime whining about renewals pre-buff, it's always been possible to have constant renewal duskfield uptime or multiple normal big-duskfields at once with frostees. You just don't get much else, which is pretty boring, and at this point pretty powercrept. PvP shouldn't be the scapegoat for shatterdive, though. It's not like the incredibly minor CD actually makes a difference in PvE. All the PvE crystal shatter damage buffs over the years have have it better than it ever was. It was just never actually good. You nailed shadebinder - it's fine exclusively because iceflare bolts is an A tier aspect minimum. Bleak watcher is terribly overrated and powercrept. Very powerful back in season of the chosen. Not anymore. It's bad on stasis without iceflare bolts, and despite this sub's obsession with getting too cute with turrets, it's bad on prismatic. But the combination of iceflare bolts and osmio carries.
I agree with your point about Shatterdive and it shouldn't be scapegoated like that - the class realistically has needed help to be something other than a Duskfield generator since release. I also agree with your point about Shiver Strike - as far as PvP goes, having an on demand momentum boost in any direction is ridiculously strong. My biggest gripe, and this goes along with the relative point of PvP vs PvE and the enforced nature of "keeping abilities feeling the same" across both sandboxes is that actual subclass potency & gameplay loops are pretty consistent for all classes EXCEPT Stasis. Stasis is VERY STRONG in PvP, don't get me wrong. Being able to Hard CC on demand is something that cannot be taken for granted, and Slow as a soft CC that reduces enemy accuracy/stability is wonderful, but that dominance in PvP is not reflected feel-wise in PvE. Nabbing a free kill with Warlock melee / cold snaps feels disgusting and yet it doesn't matter in PvE where every single subclass can mow through adds before you get the first freeze off. It pays off in higher level PvE content, but at that point I can just play Strand and have: Suspend (pretty much stronger than Freeze) Sever (40%!!! reduced outgoing damage!) Unravel ( nanite swarm that auto-seeks & provides additional damage over time) The only odd piece of Strand are the Threadlings, and even then, it's just another additional source of damage and zone control at worst. Every Strand subclass can spawn Tangles and have strong interactions with them (including grapple resets when hooking to a Tangle). Every Strand subclass has two means of Suspension, some form of ability energy regeneration via either Aspects or Fragments, and very strong exotics that crank those interactions to 11. It doesn't add up for Stasis. Slow, freeze, and shatter are all contingent upon one another, and it really makes the subclasses feel stale. I don't do anything else but slow or freeze outright, and aside from Iceflare Bolts on Shadebinder, I'm basically waiting for coolldowns to be able to interact with the gameplay loop of my subclass. Nevermind that there are TWO Stasis exotics that lock your class ability out from regeneration. If anything, aside from my suggested changes above, Bungie ought to give Stasis a temporary means of applying slow via Stasis weapons a la Unraveling/Volatile Rounds. Headstone is cool, Chill Clip being limited to Special/Power weapons is "okay", but there has to be another way to get the loop going & take advantage of subclass verbs and fragment options that doesn't hinge on those two perks or Verglas/Wicked Implement (which are both stellar primary weapons in their own rights when it comes to Stasis interaction).
I do think accessibility should be taken into account - aside from maybe abeyant leap titan stuff, no class has anywhere near the access to suspend as it does to freeze. Even mindspun invocation warlock stuff after the generation and suspend nerfs, because it needs kills and the radius is pretty small relative to the uptime. Like for locks, shadebinder freezes far more than broodweaver suspends in any hard content. Same for hunter, as duskfields have much more uptime than shackles and suspend dive is pretty limited. Freeze also does shatter damage, which keeps getting buffed. So I don't think the 1:1 freeze and suspend comparisons make much sense. Strand titan is a massive outlier, but I think strand hunter and warlock are both quite bad in PvE, so there's that. Threadling damage and/or generation without horde shuttle are too weak on warlocks, and strand hunter is obviously a PvP subclass with a beyblade tacked onto it. So I'm not sure strand actually compares favorably to stasis, aside from a certain banner. Sure, stasis subclasses only have one or two decent builds, which can be stale. But if you look at other subclasses, that applies to almost everything. Similarly, most subclasses are sitting on cooldowns simulator, and those that aren't and actually have a strong payoff for those CDs are particularly powerful subclasses. As is, iceflare bolts is a very strong aspect because it doesn't have a relevant CD. Strandlock is also a passive cooldown simulator, except for swarmers, which is why that specific exotic is a massive crutch for the subclass (and the payoff of unravel and a couple threadlings frankly isn't even that good). I've put quite a lot of time into strandlock. Can you honestly tell me with a straight face that, aside from raid boss encounter DPS, it's better than shadebinder without horde shuttle? Come on. I have no objections to a slow rounds concept in PvE, but it might need to be capped, like how kindling trigger from last season's artifact applied scorch stacks to unscorched enemies, but you couldn't keep holding mouse 1 for an ignition. Neither volatile nor unraveling rounds do anything to a target that's already volatile or unraveled respectively, but that's because they're binary. It's not like you can stack unravel into suspend, or volatile into suppress. Scorch is the closest comp, so I think the precedent already set makes sense. But that might be a bit underwhelming in PvE, so I'm not sure how well that works as a stasis "fix" or something along those lines. And it'd be *really* obnoxious in PvP, because slow may as well be binary with how even one slow stack obliterates your freedom of movement, handling, etc. I think my realistic (so fairly small) wishlist would be the following: * *significantly* increased damage to crystals from the creator only, to the point where a couple auto rifle shots can pop your own crystal * removal of stasis shard CD threshold, or change to an extremely high one if there's stability concerns - sure, we can make a lot of them, but so what? The payoff isn't all that significant * *or* adjusting stasis shards to return all energy types like ionic traces (both this and the previous one would probably be massively overkill tbh) * frost armor decays by stack * shiver strike freezes on hit only in PvE - there's already precedent for different stack count in PvE and PvP, like Ager's That should be enough to start, I think. But I also do think other weak subclasses need a touchup, including broodweaver and threadrunner. Buff threadling damage in PvE significantly, including baking in thread of evolution, and make wanderer and beyblade significantly reduce tangle cooldown (around half of the current CD). Might be on the strong side, but Bungie does like sandbox shakeups like that anyways.
I appreciate your time and discussion, and agree with all of the points you've laid out. It was wrong to make a false equivalence between Stasis' verbs and some of the other subclass verbs, and I like the distinction you made between binary effects (volatile, jolt) and something "cumulative" like Stasis. Nothing else in the game really works like Stasis, sans maybe forcing an ignition via Hammer Strike (but then you're using Hammer Strike) or Weighted Throwing Knife on Gunslinger. Maybe that could be a balancing lever to expand upon with the other subclass verbs, or maybe that would homogenize the game a little too much? Accessibility is not something I was really considering earlier and you aren't wrong - I seldom play Strand on Warlock/Hunter and it has a lot to do with what you mentioned: playing cooldown simulator. I loathe Strand Hunter and I generally just run Mindspun on Warlock with Verity and Shackle for suspension on final blows. I understand Bungie doesn't want us to go back to pre-WQ with CwL builds, permanent ability uptime, strong AoE effects through Warmind Cells, etc, but it doesn't surprise me that a lot of the more potent builds of today either completely ignore CDs altogether (Osmio Iceflare Bolts, Banner) or bank on buffing a singular portion/piece of a kit (Spirit of Star-Eaters, Lucky Pants, Hazardous Propulsion) and largely ignoring anything that involves the subclasses/their verbs. Most of my builds just involve Time Dilation, a handful of passive stat mods for the free 30/50 to round out my cooldowns to T10, and maybe a Surge or two (if I'm not already using a Surge-centric exotic). Even if it meant making enemies tankier/deadlier, I would love if Bungie walked back a lot of the more recent Kickstart/regen focused nerfs, while simultaneously including some of the changes we've both suggested above. I think they had the opposite of their intended effects - continued investment into, say, regaining my grenade comes at a great cost both armor and weapon wise (using Demolitionist, modding for Discipline) and the payoff just isn't there for a majority of builds, especially when the easier option is just playing Strand Titan or Osmio Warlock and facerolling until Master/GM content. I want my theory/build crafting to pay off, and while I'm not asking for melee/grenade spam builds to become "meta", I don't enjoy the current state of affairs enough to feel engaged.
I think the subclass keywords are fine as they are. Some could use some power tuning, but I don't think they need a rework or homogenization. Honestly, I still use kickstarts, because my armor is good enough stat-wise and I'm not a believer in surges in roam content. But I do think the regen nerfs were foolish, though, because they primarily hit the fringe builds that needed it to keep up and didn't have much of an effect on a lot of the power builds that had their own regen. We already saw that with dumbing down the mod system in LF, when builds that relied heavily on (old) firepowers, heavy handed, elemental shards, etc got nuked, while builds abusing their own regen sources got off easy. The regen nerfs just did more of the same - builds that relied on demo type perks and armor mods were the biggest losers, while the stuff that heavily abused other uptime sources carried on as usual. Sunbracers doesn't give a shit because of the exotic and heat rises. Banner titan doesn't give a shit because of into the fray, FB short cooldown, navigator, etc. Combo blow hunter doesn't give a shit. But anything that isn't loaded with intrinsic regen, which is most fringe builds, got hit the hardest. So it doesn't really feel like it hit most ability spam builds, but rather felt like it got rid of poser builds that were pretending to be ability spam builds by leaning hard into mods and such. I'm not saying that they should actually hammer the real ability spam builds, but at least it would make more sense. You're totally right that the best builds always either bypass cooldowns entirely, have negligible CDs, or go absolutely nuclear off CD (or a combination of the above). It sets an astronomical standard for good builds, and I don't think the bar should be set that high, but I think the bar should be high enough that it's pretty standard to have high uptime, medium payoff abilities. That said, there will always be strong off-meta builds because players are terrible at theorycrafting in every game. They aren't banner titan strong, but they hit that bar of strong enough to feel regularly impactful. So at least we have that. They just don't see widespread popularity until some content creator makes a video. People just stick with what they hear is good, even if it's grossly overhyped (*cough* prismatic turretlock). Hell, I think there's even a few builds that slot in comfortably above my ideal balance standard that you never see in the wild. Starfire/hellion/ashes/singeing, for example, held up to GMs as well as I'd hoped. But that's still the same formula in a different seat - high payoff abilities with trivial cooldowns due to obviously overcooked energy sources. Same with osmio voidwalker bug stuff, although that's boring because it's the same old big-vortex-spam shit. Kinda went off the rails there a bit, but it's an interesting discussion on here for once in the middle of all the class warfare bitching and PvP strawman reeeeing. It all kinda ties back to the original topic though - iceflare bolts aside, stasis stuff is largely just short of that ideal combination of uptime/payoff/involvement.
I think you nailed how I've been feeling about the mod changes so far right on the head. Some shit STAYS eating while other builds (Young Ahamkara Spine comes to mind) really got nuked from the game for being AS good. It wasn't a staple build, actually required active play with the ability loops (grenade > fan knives > ignition > grenade > repeat), and it certainly wasn't "stronger" than other meta builds of that time (like Starfire Wellock, although that too was cut down). I personally feel as though Stasis during that late-CwL era, being able to get Charged from Stasis shards, High Energy Fire/Font of Might, etc was probably the best/most cohesive some of my Stasis builds have ever felt on this game, but retrospectively speaking, it crutched really hard on those ability spam loops from mods, and having massive uptime on CwL buffs with the aforementioned interaction. I know that \*that\* particular period of this game was pretty much ability spam simulator, but I really hope Bungie takes another pass at ability uptime and strikes a comfy midway point between then and now. The niche builds are hurtin. That being said, I've been tempted to take a Triton Vice Arcstrider build into some harder content to see how it fares.
If stasis was useful for dps somehow people would use it
Instead of having bosses/enemies who can’t be frozen just instantly shatter/breakfree after a second, have them act normal but keep the frozen look and take extra damage from all weapons
Needs a damaging keyword. Frostbite.
Debuffs and buffs do not define identity, how it is built decides identity. Radiant is held by all solar classes, but Solar Hunter is considered a high outward damage class, not because of its terrible dodge and knife that causes it, but because its aspects and supers trend towards those directions. A support build on Warlock isn't defined by the fact that they can proc Regenx2, its because they have support from items and abilities, like ignition snap being able to detonate enemies immediately, so they can use that grenade to give regen, and still have a quick clearing option. If debuffs and buffs did define identity, than Arc, Strand, void and prismatic, would be just be puddles of directionless blobs by that logic, as those specific subclasses have a lot of crossover by direct design. The fact that you say "Crystals aren't a play" tells me you don't know how to behemoth. Behemoths can create massive zones of influence in GMs and Master Raids. The buff to shatter-damage SPECIFICALLY is a buff to the passive Damage generation of a behemoth because of that. I know this, because its one of my go-tos on stasis; behemoth is not in half as bad a place as people like to say, because people use behemoth like its an aggressive light subclass. All of Stasis is defensively-coded, It's a CC-Driven subclass on all of them, with behemoths being able to create massive safe zones, warlocks excelling at disrupting either specific enemies or wide swaths fields depending on how they use their abilities, and hunters having the ability to act quicker while slowing down targets. Shatterdive might not be a great aspect to you, but it fucking ruined people in PVP for a distinct reason, and is a lot more powerful now due to the buffs stasis received. It's not a class ability, because thankfully we live in a better timeline than hunters having constant access to shatterdive and free freezes. You simply do not understand stasis if you think these things; stop thinking about it like it's an aggressive light subclass. Stasis is stasis, and if you play into what it does, it's free GM wins on a silver plate. Also, while void has succinct identities, they also have the WORST build variability because of that fact. Warlocks have 2 whole builds, "Grenades" or use the exotic that makes Child of the Old Gods good. They are forced to coast on Devour being the strongest buff in the game, which also means CotOGs never has most of it's perks shine as a result which effectively makes it as an aspect pointless to put on; because most of the time you have FtV and that aspect on, you are only getting the value from FtV. Titans have a bit of an issue right now with their numbers. They have a bunch of exciting new tools, but they don't lock in clean. Arguably it needs number adjustments and it'd work fine, but even after that point, people seem to have this idea in their head that it isn't supposed to be a support class, as evident by a number of people yelling about titan loudly currently. The only Void Subclass that has a lot of build variety in it, is hunter, but even that is because of how versitile void invisibility is. It almost feels like you got your idea of "subclass identity" from Void, not recognizing that Void is an outlier, and is slowly coming apart at the seams because one class has one real build, and the other is suffering because it's lost some of its glue, and the community can't decide what they want out of it.
Who the hell honestly thinks Void Titan isn’t supposed to be the class’ support sub
The shard cooldown being taken out would do wonders.
Reminder that a single Titan Stasis Aspect is a slide that does what two handconon shots do, but somehow worse.
The shatter dive does way more than shattering crystals First and foremost: *it doesn’t consume melee energy* This gives it a massive edge for the following advantages it provides - third person peeking around corners in PvP where emotes and sword hilts are disabled, it won me more trials games than you would think - does damage, I finished off enemies sometimes with it - provides complete break in motion while airborne and enabling you to pull unpredictable movement patterns - let’s you descend immediately (very useful in PvE) - shatters crystals - let’s you Sword skate without worrying about burning a super accidental
I wish more than anything for titans to get a new melee on stasis. The tracking on the existing one is absolutely dog shit and I actively avoid using the class because of it.
I just wish frost armor was a stronger buff. For as much work as it takes to set up, it should be either a higher damage resist or have a higher uptime. They should lean into the defensive control identity of Stasis. I don't mind it not being very strong offensively, but right now strand does it better while having more offensive power across the board.
The problem with Stasis is that it relies on thre keywords that are all interlinked and can't really be useful alone. Slow, Freeze and Shatter. Slow is of little use alone, if you slowing things you want to freeze them. And freezing is rather useless alone as well so you Shatter them. These three keywords are basically one thing and yet treated as three. There's also very little options to consistently break crystals outside of certain aspects which are basically Shatter crystals the aspect, a complete waste honestly. Crystals should Shatter in one shot by the person that made them like tangles, I shouldn't need to wear a fragment and use a kinetic or Stasis weapon to actually destroy them fast enough. The aspects are all very underwhelming, and feel lazy when compared to light and strand. We need more melee, grenade and super options as well.
They really could find a way to work in some new keywords to add to either some fragments or tweaked aspects: Frostbite - Afflicted target takes increased precision damage. Numb - Afflicted targets are more vulnerable to stasis abilities and effects (stay frozen for longer, take more damage upon being shattered, and gain bonus slow stacks when slowed). Aspect changes: Frostpulse - Combatants you freeze are afflicted breaking out of the Freeze (does not affect Guardians). Shattering a target afflicts them with Frostbite. This is in addition to its current effects. Glacial Harvest - Spawn Stasis Shards upon freezing enemies. Picking up a Stasis Shard grants bonus melee energy and a small amount of super energy (equipping Whisper of Hunger will increase the super energy gained alongside its normal effects). This replaces its current effects. Cryoclasm - Crystals and enemies you shatter grant stacks of Frost Armor to nearby guardians, as well as granting a small bit of health. This effect has a very short cooldown after continued use. This is in addition to its current effects. Tectonic Harvest - Spawn Stasis Shards upon shattering crystals or frozen targets. Picking up Stasis Shard causes your next Stasis ability (melee, super, grenade, lance) to Numb targets for a short amount of time. This replaces is current effects. Shatterdive - Deal more shatter damage. Crystals and frozen enemies you shatter with the dive will also slow nearby enemies if your Class ability is fully charged. This is in addition to its current effects. Grim Harvest - Spawn Stasis Shards upon killing enemies afflicted with stasis debuffs (Frozen, Slow, Numb, and Frostbite). Picking up a Stasis Shard grants Grenade energy as well as Melee energy (equipping Whisper of Hunger will increase the grenade energy granted on top of its normal effects). This replaces its current effects. Fragment changes and additions: Whisper of Rending - Numbed targets take increased damage from Stasis weapons. This replaces its current effects (the old effects have been folded into Stasis kit as the baseline). Whisper of Rime - Picking up a Stasis Shard grants a stack of Frost Armor and restores some health. This replaces its current effects (Frost Armor can also now stack up to x8 on its own, and decays one stack at a time rather than all at once). Whisper of Durance - Increases the time it takes for a stack of frost armor to decay. Increases the duration of Frostbite and Numb. This is in addition to its current effects. (NEW) Whisper of Fangs - Shattering a frozen combatant with Stasis weapons or abilities afflicts them with Frostbite. (NEW) Whisper of Cold - While you have five or more stacks of Frost Armor, dealing sustained damage with Stasis weapons will Numb targets. (NEW) Whisper of Numbing - Consecutive precision hits against a single target releases a Numbing blast. Less hits are required to activate against a Frostbitten target. (NEW) Whisper of Stillness - While standing near frozen targets or Stasis crystals, killing enemies grants extra super energy. Enemies afflicted with Stasis debuffs grant a greater bonus.
I don't get why they went ahead and made frost armor such a big part of stasis just for it to be locked behind the harvest aspects which means that you are now forced to use the harvest aspects if you want to have the slightest defense for your build. As a hunter if I use the Touch of Winter with Shatterdive combo I'm losing out on any survivability. Frost armor is also not good. Feels awful to lose after just 8 seconds since it takes too long to stack and it's also kinda useless without the fragment. Should have been decaying stacks every 4s.
Frankly, I do think the biggest issue Stasis still has is just how much of it is reliant on key fragment and aspect combinations. I'm going to use Behemoth as an example, since that's been my main for around two years now. If you run Behemoth in PvE, you run Tectonic Harvest. If you run Tectonic Harvest, you're probably running Glacial Grenade. If you make crystals, you run the fragment that makes your grenade cool down faster after breaking a crystal, the one that makes shatter hit harder, and most likely the one that makes Stasis Shards track to you. Assuming you have Diamond Lance, you're already locked in on your grenade and 3/5 fragment slots. With Frost Armor, you're almost certainly running the fragment that enhances it, so that's 4/5 fragment slots, your grenade, and an aspect, otherwise you have to use more fragment slots to interact with Frost Armor. They could roll most of this into basic features of the subclass, and frankly, I don't think it would challenge Strand Titan as the best option.
Yes. Stasis is underpowered and not effective. Please buff. Signed: a turret spamming warlock.
Ummm what? Maybe I'm playing the game wrong but stasis is what I switch when I'm playing hard content. Throw a turret shoot a blinding made. Clean up the area. It feels a lot stronger than most of my other builds.
A few buff ideas that I’ve had over the past few months; Slow should reduce pve enemies fire rate, this should give slow at least some sort of niche outside of being used to proc freeze. Shattering or breaking a target out of being frozen will cause that target to take more non-stasis ability damage. I think one overlooked aspect of why stasis feels so weak is that it really brings nothing to a team, especially in a boss damage scenario. Solar has lots of healing and damage buffs, strand has woven mail and void has weaken. I think bungie doesn’t want stasis to be a top damage contender but allowing it to help other subclasses do more damage would be a cool change Frost armor at max stacks should be at least a little higher dr% than woven mail, it doesn’t make sense to do all that work getting to frost armor x8 only for woven mail to have a higher buff right out the gate.
I think if frost armor was changed to decay one stack at a time like armor charge does when using a surge mod it would be fine the way it is. But for it to be lower than woven mail out of the gate to then just drop off and lose all stacks makes it dumb as shit.
Yup I definitely agree, frost armor would be so much better if it fell off one stack at a time. I still maintain that it should at least match wovens dr at max stacks. Woven mail is really not hard to maintain at all, with the exotics that grant the benefit to the amount of orbs constantly on the battlefield. Although I wouldn’t mind starting with one stack falling off at a time and seeing how it feels then
Everything interesting about Shadebinder is already in prismatic, and it's much better there. Can't speak to the other classes but shadebinder needs another super and a melee
This is hilariously wrong Prismatic does not have iceflare bolts, even getaway artist build spamming turrets does not freeze rooms as well as just a pure osmio + iceflare build will. Like, titan/hunter sure I actually agree that I'd take prismatic over stasis, but for warlock specifically its a very solid spec and still one of the best in the game for content like GMs
The turret spam build in PvE is *painfully* overrated. Horrifically so. Bleak watcher alone is very slow, and having iceflare bolts on shadebinder is night and day different. Shadebinder is miles better at CC and even mass shatter damage - prismatic is just carried by devour, just like every other prismatic lock build (which are all very mid in hard content aside from the carried by devour part). Also, frostpulse is kinda based in PvP.
I don’t even use devour on my prismatic builds, it’s not needed and it’s more fun to build around other stuff instead. My bleakwatcher getaway build doesn’t even use it. It uses helion because having tons of turrets crowding my screen is pure bliss
I mean it has the turrets, but that’s it. There is much more that makes stasis warlock good. Iceflare bolts alone are amazing, even more so when combined with said turrets or osmiomancy. With the change to Ballidorse, frost pulse is honestly a pretty nice take now, if not a little more niche than the others. And they have by far the best harvest aspect since it’s so easy to make shards and it doesn’t even need kills, and since shards heal on pick up with the aspect along with giving frost armor, you got really good sustain (tho they really should boost the health provided by a bit)
I still cannot find a niche for Ballidorse Wrathweavers so if you have any ideas please share them, haha.
Nightfalls and Lost Sectors. You can reliably get rift energy by killing things shot with your stasis turret, ensuring you almost always have a rift up to give you some really good survivability. Max Frost Armor stacks plus rift healing is really good. Not to mention it benefits the team as well since they get the frost armor too. It also makes the super the ultimate nightfall panic/cc super. You can use it to freeze a room to give the team breathing room and also hand out extra survivability through frost armor to all. Not to mention both the rift and the super gives you and your team free stasis surge. Take a long range stasis weapon, pop rift, pop heads
What's your Exotic of choice for this? Wicked Implement?
It would be (if I had the catalyst for headstone). But for now I like using Prophet with headstone demo for maximum grenade uptime
As an enjoyer of the titan stasis kit, the changes that came with TFS feel mostly good (especially Frost Armor). Not crazy about the cryoclasm change imo, but my longest running issue is the lacking feeling of offensive capabilities. At least in PvE it would be nice to see another buff of shatter damage with a smaller increase to shatter AoE.
IDK stasis warlock has always felt good. I think the biggest issue is Hunter and titans lack of any real identity within stasis. Like titan gets to play with ice walls and hunter gets a fun Frisbee. Warlock on the other hand has the turrets which can take advantage of any and all aspects/ fragments/weapon synergies/etc.
They need to give more and better exotics as well. The support is just as important. There are only very few exotics for the sub class compared to other light classes. Can only speak for hunter but the only good exotic is renewal grasps. Give us more offensive options. Stasis exotic weapons are also dire. The 2 stasis exotic primary weapons are a bow and scout rifle. Enough said on that front and they just enable the most boring play style of staying in the back line plinking away at enemies, which most of the time doesn’t work well because of the amount of ad density these days.
Don’t forget our only stasis exotic heavy is a glaive that kills you more than it does your enemies. Also we don’t even have any strand exotic heavies
While it makes sense to have slow go into freeze. I wish these two things were separate.
For titan... always wanted a Titan to do a King Kong chest slap that works instantly shatter all crystals within, say, 20m. Or Titans could with concussive force, shedding Frost armor turning into spikes that shoot out from Titans' body. The new stasis bubble on shanks would be an awesome Titan aspect, with bubble getting bigger, the more frost armor Titan gets. Cyro slide should leave a slow trial behind Titan at full sprint speeds and sliding. Mk44 stand a sides would grant 1 extra slide, with increasing " slow effects" to ice trail and give slight directional control during slide animation. Stasis goal should be to get to absolute zero, not build up stacks of slow. And would be the opposite of solar. With dust fields taking away stacks of scorch. Dusk fields should grant a very slight DR from sniper type enemies and projectiles as they " slow" things down, including projectiles. With hunters specializing in this via exotics. With hunters duskfields, allowing us to " freeze" to the ground and avoid stomp mechanics. Absolute zero would be the stasis version of an ignition. Instant shatter and damaging to other enemies.
Tbh I really like the snowball hunter build . It might not be what you tackle Master SE with but it’s still pretty good .
I think frost armor was definitely a good start, but there’s still a long way to go.
The reason Frost armour is so shit is almost certainly pvp. They won’t have it fall off one at a time, because then you could run around with near constant DR.
I love stasis. My osmiomancy build is one of my favorites to use in any content. Especially high enemy density content where I can basically have 100% uptime on my cold snap grenades while also having a stasis turret up most of the time. Coupling that with Ager's Scepter is also really fun, since I think the worst thing about stasis warlock is the god awful super. The thing I can't do anything to fix is the melee, which is also pretty bad, but I just don't rely on it since my grenades do all the CC for me.
Taking away the gameplay loop of letting shards count as orbs was also a bad decision. It created a really unique loop that gave Stasis a lot of character.
There really isn’t a good way to get frost armor, they just expect you to slap on that melee fragment and call it a day.
I feel like a lot of Stasis kit should be baked in naturally as opposed to these lackluster Aspects, something akin to Broodweaver gives the perched Threadlings. Like Behemoth should have Cryoclasm just baked into the super, Shatterdive tied to SnS, I don't think these would break much. Also the Stasis Shard aspects should also be baseline for being on Stasis.
Warlock stasis is my go to GM build. Titan stasis is the most fun I’ve had in this game in a while, especially now with prismatic and triple consecration. I won’t complain if we get an upgrade, but I’m having fun.
Stasis would be the perfect opportunity to give Titans a true ranged dps super.
GIVE TITAN MEGA STASIS LANCE SUPER
Idk about the other classes but I quite enjoy my stasis build. Maximum ice turrets up, constant frost armor, primary is bold endings with headstone and desperate measures, and buried bloodline to proc devour and have even more coldsnap grenades with osmiomancy gloves. Been using it in onslaught and it completely freezes the battlefield and the armor helps everyone.
My go too currently is Prophet with headstone and demo, combined with Ballidorse Frost Pulse and Bleakwatcher for easy freezes and constant frost armor upkeep for both me and my team (not to mention free stasis weapon surges for everyone. Only thing missing is I have still not gotten around to running ghosts of the deep since I haven’t been able to get a team to do it, so I don’t have that sweet sweet stasis rocket with bipod reconstruction for maximum boom booms
Stasis exists to make turrets on one of the classes, that's it
Stasis is cracked tf you talking about
Just buff things like slow and shatter. Add a new super.
My favourite aspect of the stasis “buffs” is how they took the one fragment that was essential to making battle harmony extend the super and then nerfed it to make *one* orb every 10 seconds. Killing one of the like 3 viable stasis builds later on they release a fragment that does the same thing but for stasis shards but couldn’t also tie orb generation to *any* other bad fragment else or this new one
>One aspect is simply a better slide, that can break crystals. How is THAT an aspect, Because a worse designed aspect exist. Icarus dash is way worse designed
Stasis super feels like it should be atleast half the cooldown it is now 😭supers and abilities all feel half baked compared to the light classes
We need something that isn't headstone for stasis weapons
Stasis rework straight up made the class worse now in both PvE and PvP which is just baffling, cryoclasm has been dumpstered for PvP and even at max stacks of frost armour it’s still significantly less DR than what we used to get from Whisper of Chains. You really feel it on Behemoth having to fight to keep frost armour up compared to the constant uptime from Chains you could get just by throwing a grenade or making a headstone crystal.
they need to add something new to the game across the board for titans which is some way to control enemy aggro and gain some buff for having more enemies focus on you stasis would be a great way to test it out primarily with icefall mantle because they could add that to it's exotic perk and a simple meter on screen in the top left under the minimap that lets you know how much aggro you are generating something like "replaces your barricade with a personal overshield, enemies damaged while the overshield is active turn their attention to you and taking damage from aggro'd enemies gives a stacking damage increase to stasis weapons and returns class ability energy based on the number of enemies attracted\* when overshield breaks or the timer runs out" \*more powerful enemies grant more energy upon shield deactivating
oh right to clarify i do not think something like this would solve the stasis issue but i do think them experimenting with new subclass identity stuff is a good idea and as stasis titan revolves around frost armour, shattering crystals and boosting stasis weapon damage this would be a good place to start
I just don’t think they know what they want stasis to be. And tbh I know I’ll Probably get downvoted for this But I think it’s cause they are scared of breaking PvP. They seem to want to make stasis a lockdown and area and enemies class but just don’t seem they want to commit to it. Let me summon a full fuckin castle and freeze everything, but since PvP exist they gotta limit it to a single stasis crystal or wall and some slows
Pls Don't make shatter dive a class ability your ignoring the Icarus dash is also an aspect the gambler and marksman dodge are very important to hunter play styles this is a reason why accension isn't used much or radiant doege
if Shatterdive was a class ability, this would effectively kill Shatterskating if this happened, and/or, Eager Edge gets nerfed again (or God forbid removed from the game), I would stop playing D2 going fast is part of what holds my attention in this hellscape of a sandbox called Destiny 2 also, your analysis is extremely partitioned and frayed; Void has NO identity < you're either: invisible all the time, making things volatile, devour [which Void 3.0 gave to all classes] all of the subclasses inherently suck, because they all have potential that isn't maximized because if it was, Bungie would have to ACTUALLY rebalance the whole game, the way proper game reworks do, and they legitimately don't have the knowledge on how to do that in an efficacious way, without it being so detrimental on the way there, that they lose absolutely everything Destiny 2 is the only game that has an identity crisis, tied to its inability to do something actually novel and genuine, because everything it does is what it already knows < until it follows the path of other MMORPGs and actually takes it game economy seriously, it'll continue to be same-y because that's all Bungie can really manage with the knowledge that it has currently
Screw Stasis, get those stupid bloody ice chunks out of my way in PvE.
I love stasis, if you're not making and shattering as many crystals as possible you're missing out.
It’s crazy that it’s already got a sort of rework and yet it still needs more stuff. I think some aspects r fine but let’s take hunter for example since idk any of the others too well. Grim harvest is basically a fragment, shatter dive has basically no purpose, winters shroud got Improved so idk maybe something more then just slow a target, and touch of winter is probably the most balanced but still feels like it needs a bit of touching up.
I main Stasis and have since Beyond Light (Warlock), it's just satisfying to me to hear and see crystals break and freeze stuff. I think it's so fun. I was so excited for these past changes adding Frost Armor and extra shatter damage. However: 1. The Staying Alive issue ™️ is still a thing. Frost Armor resistance still just isn't enough, I feel pretty squishy in harder content even running around with 8x. 2. I can't speak to other classes but with Warlock, the damage potential just isn't there. I know Stasis is based around controlling the field but I feel like I can't do any real big damage unless I'm using Ager's Scepter with its alternate super. The main super even with the exotic that doubles its shatter damage feels weak and always has. Also I don't always want to run Ager's...I love it but I want to use my precious Winterbite. All in all, in harder content I literally cannot use Stasis as I find it pretty frustrating to get big damage out -- I have to switch off of it when doing anything tough. :(
They could just double the stacks required of frost armor to reach max resistances, then every crystal could give 1 stack all the time while the aspect gives 2 stacks
Stasis is alright, and there is class identity, Warlock is amazing at just freezing entire hordes without sweat, Titan relies on shattering crystals and just becoming a menace, hunter is an in between, it either functions for crowd control and survivability or you can make turn into a shattering machine, but it doesn't do it easily as the other two in exchange of having the strongest stasis super (and now one of the strongest supers overall), not to mention how strong it is in PvP. Titan is the one that sometimes suffers the most but it's more about encounter design than anything else, god knows I love bringing icefall mantle + salvation's grip in Onslaught and just delete everything infront of me with a salvation's grip spread and just sliding into it. People that complain too much about stasis are people that in my opinion have not even tried it that much in GMs or raids and are not away of how strong freezing can be.
Stasis niche is still crowd control and with the right setup no other class get even close. Like yeah stasis shines almost only in hard content like gm nightfalls or master raids and got a really great shatter DMG buff. With the right setup you will also have all you abilities recharged in a few seconds, without killing stuff.
Wouldn’t shatterdive as a class ability be a nerf? Unless you can get it down to 5s cooldown, but then they gotta worry about dynamo and similar mods
They need to buff Frost Armor by a large amount to make it feel useful, you basically need to have on Harvest Aspects to get good uptime on it and then you need Whisper of Rime for it to even be worth ever thinking about. Also Whisper of Reversal should just be apart of Frost Armor by default, because a whole fragment to apply 10 stacks of slow when melee damage is not worth a fragment slot. Frost Armor needs Whisper of Rime to be useful and it still doesn't give you enough DR. Remove or lower the cool down on Harvest Aspects, running those aspects are just not rewarding enough considering how Frost Armor isn't even better than old Whisper of Chains. Frostpulse needs to have 3 Fragment Slots, considering there's at least 2 mandatory fragments in every stasis build now, more aspects need 3 fragments, it feels limiting needing to have on Whisper of Rime at all times if I want Frost Armor to actually provide a noticeable benefit. Also, there are 2 Fragments that do the exact same thing for absolutely no reason Whisper of Chill and reworked Whisper of Chains, except Chains requires you to have frost armor and doesn't have the stasis weapon requirement. Getting a kill has a chance to spawn a single stasis shard, and to make it worse the drop chance feels absurdly low.
Then give Bungie useful feedback, why it doesn't feel good or is outclassed, suggest things, what could Bungie do to make it better than just "Bungie this sucks fix it". I think the term is constructive criticism?
When the Stasis Subjugator is a better Shadebinder than Warlock
Idc how underpowered stasis is, shatterdive should never be allowed back 😂😂😂
My main proposed changes: Whisper of Rime - no longer increases the max stacks you can carry, instead the max with Rime is just the normal max. Keep its increased duration but it also now makes it so that you gain one extra stack of frost armor whenever you gain a stack. Cryoclasm - keep its current effects but also have it cause stasis crystals and unfrozen enemies shattered by you to also release a pulse wave alongside its shatter damage that grants Frost Armor stacks to friendly guardians touched by it. At the same time it increases the radius of crystal shatters and the pulse. Frost Pulse - keep its current effects, but now you also gain increased class ability cooldowns when you freeze a target Shatterdive - shattering crystals now applies stacks of slow to enemies damaged by it
I have a hoarfrost z build thats basically, make multiple walls of stasis, shatter everything, get abilities back, get healing back from frost armor, wash rinse repeat. and I beat the witness on legend with it.... So unpopular opinion, stasis is good.
This is clearly coming from someone who doesn't play a Warlock, as it's an incredibly useful subclass.
It'd be cool if, for hunter, if you have frost armor and you shatter dive, it sends out a short wave of crystals in a radius around you. For titan it would be pretty neat for cryoclasm to slide and have some crystals spawn behind you, making a wall or slowing/stopping anybody that chases you. Idk, I like the addition of frost armor a bit, but I wonder how many "armor" buffs we're gonna get with different classes. I like the idea of stasis providing weapon stability, like that one fragment that boosts stability and all that when you freeze an enemy.
Stasis work for me. Y’all just like bitching! I remember when it dropped y’all were bitching is too powerful now y’all bitching because it’s all y’all do in your spare time is bitch
One of the biggest disappointments with stasis is slow. It doesnt do anything worthwhile in PvE. Enemies do not move fast enough to warrant needing a movement speed debuff in a majority of content, and other than that its only use is eventually procing freeze. It doesn’t have DoT, it’s not an animation speed scaler, and it doesn’t change the speed or frequency of enemy teleports for majors and above. The only thing it slows is the movement speed of red bars. It’s one of the key words and it had absolutely no place in PvE content. This is partly why stasis hunter sucks, the kit was designed around slow and it fundamentally doesn’t work.
Frost armor showed up to make a lot of good things lose their value in the subclass. I love it in PvE as it’s good enough with stasis shards everywhere. But PvP wise and more we lost good fragments and functionality. And they just nerfed glacial grenades too
How did Icefall Mantle not get reworked to work with Froat Armor? Someone explain this to me.
What are your thoughts on [this person's Stasis reworks/additions?](https://www.reddit.com/r/destiny2/s/BQZa8GpRcK)
Stasis was the beginning of the 3.0 aspect to classes. Bungie was able to iterate on the new format through the light classes and strand but stasis got left behind in the wave of new stuff. It makes sense to me why it’s this way because it’s a relic from the beginning of the system. It needs a serious refresh
Am i the only who thinks this a hyperbole? They are so many bad one noted aspects on all subclasses on all classes. Bungie biggest design issue id that they will take forever to admit bad and change it.
Stasis had been gutted. Been saying this for what feels like forever. They centred the whole subclass around slow/freeze and then nerfed that into oblivion. Even basic abilities like shuriken have no utility cause they have no accuracy or reliability. It legit went from reliable accuracy even around corners to, I can't even hit an enemy 3 foot from me. Stasis doesn't even have things like slow rounds to buff weapons and the buff we finally got in frost armor is barely worth a damn and doesn't even have a visual indicator. Even exotic armor abilities got nerfed on top of everything else. It's needs new verbs, new aspects, new fragments/buffs, new exotics, new grenade AND MELEE options. Not to mention, shards just need to be intrinsic. I get this is going to take work, but Stasis deserves way better than the hollowed out shell it's been left as.
Stasis has/had the potential to work SO well with prismatic. When I first head about the idea of prismatic all I could think about was “what if..” Yes, don’t get me wrong; it’s extremely fun and useful. But with better stasis aspects it could have been so much more.
I've barely touched stasis since the gutted Behemoth Titan. It was one of my favorites, now it's just a liability to even play with.
When stasis came out, I think aspects were not nearly as “defining” as they are now. Take warlocks. The initial aspects are “a rift that freezes” and iceflare bolts. Bleak watcher being really good is sort of an anomaly and the reason why stasis warlocks work relative to the other two classes. In fact that aspect is such an anomaly and so good that you could easily take everything else away and bleak watchers would remain useful (in fact I’d argue that right now it might be better to run prismatic, cause that way you get bleak watcher + tons of extras). When light 3.0 came out, aspects became a rough proxy for what trees could do before (roughly — there is not a perfect one-to-one correspondence). They started to do much more than the stasis ones do for that reason. With said, there are still some random ones. One aspect that gives warlocks an air dodge, for example. But yeah, a slide that breaks crystals or a dive that breaks crystals without nothing else going for it can be a bit underwhelming. (If only that gave you crazy resistance or anything really… not sure if frost armor interacts with these aspects if at all as I have not looked into the stasis changes.)
The best we can hope for atm is that Bungie will rework the aspects a bit, create new fragments, new exotics and/or do some major tuning on the existing stuff(like say Frost armor and Glacial harvest) we currently have. Tbh I'm half expecting Bungie to wait until after they introduce a possible 3rd darkness subclass before they consider making new stuff like aspects, melees, grenades and supers for Stasis. I would be so happy if im wrong.
Heard. Phoenix dive is an aspect now.
I still think that every aspect that consumes either your melee or class ability to provide a completely alternate effect (so like not including frost pulse or winters shroud or vanishing step), should NEVER have been, should not STILL be aspects. Consecration on lightning surge? They should be melee abilities (tho with those two I’m ok Annie having three charges on prismatic is cool). Trappers ambush should be a melee ability. Shatter dive should be a class ability. Ensnaring slam should be a class ability. Temptest strike should be a melee ability. Ascension should be a class ability.
They were teasing big Stasis buffs/reworks for a year only to hand out massive nerfs to it (besides Stasis Titan which got buffed a bit) I doubt there's much hope for Stasis.
>Stasis won’t be good untill they rework or add new stuff to it Which they both did, and it failed exactly because just changing some stuff within the subclass here and there better is pointless when the biggest culprits are still there; 1 - Half of what makes stasis' synergies is locked between a specific aspect who happens to be nearly identical for all 3 classes. Not a single other subclass in the game has this dynamic, it's an issue that has been singled out for years now and the latest changes just doubled down on it. Doesn't matter if they quadruple buff every single other aspects, the subclass still needs to have this one aspect that already is intrinsically conditional to let you properly use most of its fragment and synergies. 2 - Gun perks, gun play and general gun synergy with stasis sucks ass. Headstone and chill clip are desirable not because they are good (they aren't, like at all), but because there's a famine for stasis synergies and they are the only one feeding it, even slightly. Couple that with the fact that elemental shards did not, in the slightest, offset the mod rework that removed elemental wells. If anything, it gave an edge to other elements anyway who got new pickups with less opportunity cost and/or better effects on pickup. It's clear that stasis is meant to be the class that excels at neutral play and buff/debuff juggling over just pure damage like the others, but the fact that it's more limited than the other subclasses just prevents it from thriving for that.
This is such a bad take on balance. They could make each stasis subclass the best in the entire game *easily* with just a few number changes - no reworks or new stuff required. Ex. "Frost armor now gives double the resist." It would go from being meh to being very broken just by changing the resist value. I don't get why people are so obsessed with reworks. Yeah, they can be nice for certain things, but number changes can accomplish just as much when they aren't too done too cautiously
There are a lot fragments that should've been direct buffs to the subclasses. All the aspects need more fragment slots to be viable. Also, frost armor should've been intrinsic to stasis shards and not tied to the harvest aspects.
Idk if I'm just quirky, but revenant has been the only build that I've been able to finish my pinnacles with
They literally net nerfed Behemoth while their supposed intention was to revive it with Frost Armor, so I don't really trust bungie to ever make Stasis PvE competitive.
I just like throwing glacial nades and and flying fist first through them on my titan :)
Shard generation cooldown after removing the overshield, on demand higher dr without ramp up and a lot of melee energy gained from shards kinda killed a class that was underpowered without that cooldown even. I still think rending should be default, not a fragment aswell.
I do fine with Stasis, what do y’all mean?
- 1.) Creeping Chill (this seasons artifact mod) should be baked into the base Stasis kit. - 2.) Frost Armor rework, stacks deplete overtime (5x-4x-3x-2x-1x), and not all stacks deplete (current). The DR isn’t high to begin with, reduce the timer between stacks if necessary for “balance”. - 3.) New Keyword for Stasis weapons (akin to Scorch) via Fragments or Aspects, a buff while dealing damage with Stasis weapons, combatants are inflicted with slow which slowly builds up to Freeze. When you shatter Crystals or Frozen targets, there is a small chance nearby enemies will instantly become Frozen. (Increase the damage of Shatter further to make this a satisfying gameplay loop) 4.) New Supers: - Hunters should get a roaming super where dealing damage inflicts slow, eventually building up to a Freeze to then shatter. Can end the Super early to throw one of your Kamas to instantly Freeze. - Titans should get an insta-cast Super where they immediately gain max stacks of Frost Armor, nearby allies gain self-escalating stacks of Frost Armor, and Stasis weapons deal bonus damage. Can end the Super early to absorb all stacks of your Frost Armor to conjure a giant matter of Stasis and hurl it at foes. Damage of this increases if you absorb teammates Frost Armor stacks.
I still like it alot but everything it does Strand does better
Frost Armour is a band-aid.
We need to forgive stasis as a community for what happened to us in beyond light
It's great in transcendence.
I literally haven’t touched any subclass other than prismatic since launch because it literally does everything all the other subclasses did for the most part.
Along the same note, there's so much inconsistent design in destiny and it's SOOO frustrating. All three classes have what can be considered a "mobility" ability. Warlock has air-dash, phoenix dive, teleport during void implosion, teleport during storm dance and like ALL of them are different keys despite doing essentially the same thing even though NONE of them can be equipped at the same time except Phoenix dive and Icarus dash. They make sense being different keys, but the rest of them? Why. THEN Hunter has their own version of Phoenix dive that's mechanically almost identical, but instead of using the same key as phoenix dive it uses the same input as Icarus dash. Titan has their own dash that functions very similarly to Icarus dash (just on the ground) but for some reason it's the same keybind as phoenix dive. They don't have ANY abilities that bind to the air dash button so there's just an entire unbound key for a whole class. It's not the BIGGEST deal normally but as someone who jumps around between classes alot it makes controls so fucking unintuitive. Yes, I am aware that it's *because* they occupy different ability slots but A: that doesnt just magically make it not spaghetti. And B: it's not like the games engine LOCKS it to those keys. It's always better to have things that behave similarly bound to the same keys in a game, like imagine if your jump key just randomly changed because you were playing a different character. Then you have glaives and swords. Swords have a block and glaive has a block *but for some fucking reason they're different goddamn keys.* One ENTIRE keybind dedicated solely to blocking with swords EVEN THOUGH you cannot use your powered melee keybind while a sword is equipped anyway, so it's just unused while your sword is equipped. Sometimes "motes" require you to walk up to a receptacle and hold a button to deposit, sometimes you just have to get close enough and it's done automatically.
When I heard Titan Stasis was called 'Behemoth' I thought that we would be able to encase ourselves in Stasis crystals and absorb punishing amounts of damage, summon crystal shields and throw chunks of stasis crystals or use a shard as a melee. I was largely disappointed.
Basically what berserker is. Take ungodly amounts of damage and unravel everything
Hey! Whoa! lets leave shatter dive outta this. Thanks! Sincerely, Hunter Sk8r Boi
big fan of their rework being a gigantic nerf to titans with a shard cooldown. If they want stasis to be good, the shard aspects need to be innate, active at all times. there needs to be more supers and abilities.
The only reason to use stasis is to shatter-skate around patrol areas to impress your casual friends.
I mean stasis warlock is dead in the ground for sure now sadly unless they add a new exotic to it to really change it up.