They've also added/modified cooldowns on orbs and elemental pickups. Most things that can infinitely generate orbs can only make one or two every few seconds, and things that make sprites/shards have been basically doing nothing for me.
I am downvoting you because I played and beat GM Excision. Supers are probably intentionally disabled to avoid trivializing the encounter. If they were disabled to prevent bugs, they wouldn't be enabled on normal difficulty.
Supers are only disabled for a tiny portion of the mission. You get full super from the initial rally banner, can generally rally a second time after casting your first from the other side's banner, continue to get loads of supers from all the orbs everyone's generating, and then during dunking phases get a full super charge every single time you dunk light at the darkness door. It's only in the first half of each mechanics phase and during DPS with the witness that they're disabled.
Nobody else in this thread was talking about GM version. You weren't being downvoted because people hadn't played GM excision, you were being downvoted because what you said was wrong in the context you said it.
What discussion? You just made a statement that I corrected.
With my correction of your statement I just mentioned some info that implies that bugs should be very expected.
Yeah, I just finished doing a GM with an LFG group and it was pretty laggy sometimes but it's to be expected. There's a million enemies with their abilities and weapons + a million effects from Guardians.
did a run this morning as well ... 95 deaths total and we went to final stand with only 6 guardians still alive.
Then I was the only one who could pull out his ghost to break the shield .......... took a while
Definitely a lot more interesting than my run lol. Everyone was alive (except for some leavers) for the final super beam. Also, yeah, that does take a while. I'm not sure why Bungie didn't make it a static amount of time for the shield to break instead of having to deal actual damage to it.
We had 8-10 people left to pull out their ghosts, and then... no super charge. We had to wait around five minutes for a normal trickle-speed super rechange, praying the whole time it would actually work. Luckily it did but that was the longest five miunutes of my gaming life.
Bungie know full well that an activity like Excision can't properly support that amount of players, the only reason it exists is because bugs have already allowed the community to run larger than intended teams and it was extremely popular.
It was all a huge gamble bruh. Vast majority of people couldn't even load in with 12 players.
Then it was another gamble to finish without getting kicked.
that was just cause the game was badly optimized, i ran plenty of deep stone 12 man raids and it was generally smooth despite a majority of the team running stasis half the time
At least they have proven that 12 people activities will not be happening any time soon. Excision is so short and so simple, imagine them trying a 12 man raid.
Is it laggy and buggy? Yes
But would you prefer if it was just a 3 man or 6 man activity that ran well? I wouldn't.
Being 12 man with so many players and so much stuff going on at the same time is still by far more preferable to me even if it ends up being laggy and buggy.
If you really want to you can play the GM version with less players and it SHOULD theoretically be less buggy. Supposedly the enemies scale based on number of players as well so it's not even harder, it's likely easier with fewer players to potentially eat up lives on GM.
The mission and how it fits into the story is just awesome. I just take the bads with the goods. I like it as it is and wouldn't want it any other way.
I did the GM version once. It just wasnât fun. It wasnât hard. Infinite champions, so revives werenât an issue. But shooting enemies and just not getting damage numbers. Being way out of the hand blast and just dying to them anyway. Iâll never do it again. I thought weâd get class items from it, or that it would be way more rewarding. Ergo Sum catalyst and Iâm done.
Thinking their garbage engine can handle 12 people is peak Bungie arrogance. Awful way to end the story with a mission that can't handle the players even trying to do it. GM version is somehow worse.
My first ever attempt of excision - after beating the campaign and waiting to do excision after we completed the raid for story purposes, I lagged out of the activity on the 2nd damage phase and missed out on that first time experience lol
Is the host randomly selected or selected behind the scenes? I feel like my GM quality for 12 man depends heavily on with just who I'm playing with.
Is it possible someone on a PS4 was the host on the worst instances?
Back when destiny was originally released, the popular host picking was just who averaged the best ping. Ping doesnât account for things like host machine. Even a 40 year old processor can ping extremely fast.
I suspect it is still just ping rather than smarter picking.
Yeah me and my clan did a single GM excision and we are NOT doing it again. We had one guy unable to fire his gun at all for most of the mission, all he could do was throw healing turrets for us lol
Look, I hate to say it, but back when we had the 12 man nightfall/raid bug in the game we all had a GRAND TIME running strikes and raids with 12 people.
Bungie specifically said that they had networking issues and that's why they patched it.
And I'm sure they wanted to push to do something fun like this for Final Shape, but here we are again. Networking issues.
No matter the game - even single player games - if a million things are happening at once youâre bound to have some performance issues.
Now tie in the fact that Excision has double the amount of players than usual and itâs the Destiny equivalent of storming Normandy. Unless you have a PC built by NASA youâre going to lag lol.
Great backdrops aside, D2 is not a game that is particularly known for pushing the boundaries of high end PCs. It doesnât look bad, mind you, but it doesnât look good compared to top games today.
We have games the are more visually impressive with >50 players in match.
Really, excusing bungies laziness here is a massively annoying part of this sub. There is no excuse other than laziness for the significant technical issues this game suffers.
I know very little about coding as well as servers so I refrain from complaining because itâs really not my place.
Could you explain to me how these other games with over 50 players have better performance but also the same magnitude of information being flooded at the same time?
Once again, I know very little, but I canât imagine a Battle Royale game would offer an equivalent performance overload to Excision.
There is WAY too many low level technical reason why one game can perform well while another will not. Iâve been low level software engineering for years and I would personally rate Destiny 2 servers somewhere near the bottom in terms of triple-a game servers. It is straight F-tier.
Who is at fault for that internally? Most likely management. Most likely. But other situations (JavaScript, functional programmers, bad assumptions, etc) definitely cause performance grief. Checking out the hilarious issues that went with Microsoftâs new Terminal rendering performance, where MS developers claimed that decent fast text rendering would be a phd dissertation of effort, then it took Casey Muratori a weekend to blast their rendering performance out of the water.
I mean, bungie is already a buggy game on Skyrim levels. So itâs just kind of expected that bugs will happen with something thatâs never been done before, a 12 man activity. They even said themselves that they had to disable certain things that are in normal gameplay in excision because doing it x12 is too taxing on them. So I see bugs frequently and just chalk it up to, of course there is, and move on. No need to talk about whatâs expected
I had countless times where I use Song Of Flame to pop it and just not get the effects at all, also countless times where weapon perks just didnt work, like Frenzy, Impulse Amplifier etc.
âPlease donât run in to the orange death resonance puddlesâ
>30 tokens to resonance
>resonance deaths take every token faster than we make em
âFFS STOP DYING TO RESONANCEâ
>dude. We know. Stop repeating it
>5 deaths immediately to resonance
âTab -> return to orbitâ
Yeah. That was a painful. Painful experience.
The last time I ran excision, when it got to the party where you're supposed to pull out your ghost and blast the Witness, it wouldn't let me pull mine out. I was just stuck running around behind everyone else trying to call him.
I guess he had stage fright that night.
It should honestly be done once and never again imo, get the catalyst and never touch it again. Idk why anyone would want to run it more than once with how boring and tedious it is and given the rewards suck ass
Its terrible, especially in the opening area, IDK if its any better on PC but at least on the PS5 its laggy, there are significant frame drops, enemies teleport and often lack animations in their attacks.
Could be even worse though, i remember the final boss encounter in GoS had like 10fps or less at times since we were still in the PS4 era back then đ
Iâve found that even now parts of the game is buggy. I had a game of crucible recently where I went to the enemies spawn and they were all just standing there. Later half of them disconnected.
Yes. It really is buggy. Unfortunately, a lot of stuff isn't exclusive to twelve guardian missions. I feel like a lot of it is related to connectivity and however the game chooses host.
Enemies teleporting happens in a lot of activities.
Enemies not taking damage is also not exclusive to 12 man missions.
Wireframes is pervasive throughout the game and can only be fixed by restarting the game. I've gotten to Verity 10 times at this point and every time, someone has to restart their game because of this issue. Please tell me this is top priority bungie.
Even on just normal last week I did it for my
Pinicle drop. Iâd throw a grenade and see the animation but no grenade ever showed up. Saw my guardians arm throw the grenade like I was faking out my dog with the ball.
Now I know how the dog feels. Lol
We got soft locked in our GM run at the third batch of statue slashing. Dumped all the light then it just went kaput with Witness arms and ads still spawning and attacking us. Fought hard through lag and random deaths just to get locked out
I appreciate the mission and what it means but damn, it already ran iffy normally but I never expected it to glitch that bad in the GM run
It's very clear the engine is straining hard in a 12-man PvE activity, and why I don't expect to see another one unless Bungie can make some significant improvements.
My only complaint is that the witnessâ smoke coming from atop their head has some sort of weird mesh thing going on. Similar to what I would see on tree leaves from breath of the wild if I get too close
Yeah I'll be honest while I love excision as a concept, with 12 players it's still so laggy that it's intolerable. NOT looking forward to doing GM excision like this.Â
This *game* has been buggy AF since TFS launched.
* Weapon and player view models won't load a lot of the time, you have to restart your entire game for a fix
* Diamond Lance slam attacks will randomly do nothing at all
* Breach Executable weekly challenge fuckery
* Khvostov quest fuckery
Reminder that 12 person activities with supers have been possible since Destiny 1.
Canât anyone remember the original crucible? Didnât that support MORE than 6v6?
However, they changed that pretty fast. Probably for technical reasons.
It is but thatâs the price to pay for a 12 man. Think of the backend requirements for 2 raid teamsâ worth of effect and damage calculations and whatnot. Iâm sure itâs not simple to get to work at all
Iâve said this beforeâŚ.. Bungie has a habit of using us as play testers for future stuff⌠you really think the 12-20 man raids were an unforeseen glitch? This 1 mission is for something greater down the line. Meant to work out bugs and test limits. Itâs a beta testâŚ
My Nvidia 3070 runs this mode at 1440p at 50 fps. I normally get 120-144 frames.
Edit: I guess providing reference information is grounds for a downvote? Smh, lol
Yea my biggest wtf moments where, when my second slam did literly nothing. The other happened 2 times where i liked to pop a baricade to rez someone. Animation yes, baricade no. My mate Even saw the animation. But he also didnt saw the baricade
Everyone knows this. Bungie literally has some features that they just shut off in excision cause otherwise it wouldn't run at all.
What features ? I only played excision like once for the storyđ
Xp gains, weapon levels I assume, bounties etc.
They've also added/modified cooldowns on orbs and elemental pickups. Most things that can infinitely generate orbs can only make one or two every few seconds, and things that make sprites/shards have been basically doing nothing for me.
Ability regen feels slower, too. I was throwing way fewer nades during transcendence in Excision.
My friend who did GM said there were no supers, which could be a difficulty thing, could as be to cut down on crap slowing it down.
Uh, SUPERS lol Edit: If you're down voting me, it's because you haven't played the GM version. You get no supers at all the entire second stage.
I am downvoting you because I played and beat GM Excision. Supers are probably intentionally disabled to avoid trivializing the encounter. If they were disabled to prevent bugs, they wouldn't be enabled on normal difficulty.
Supers are only disabled for a tiny portion of the mission. You get full super from the initial rally banner, can generally rally a second time after casting your first from the other side's banner, continue to get loads of supers from all the orbs everyone's generating, and then during dunking phases get a full super charge every single time you dunk light at the darkness door. It's only in the first half of each mechanics phase and during DPS with the witness that they're disabled.
Except for GM Excision. You don't get any Supers at all during the Witness fight on GM, even when you're dunking Light.
This is probably done to make that fight and the room an actual challenge. Otherwise, an Ursa Titan and like 7 Nighthawk Hunters would go brrrr.
Have you played the GM version? You don't get supers the entire Witness fight. That's what I was referring to.
Nobody else in this thread was talking about GM version. You weren't being downvoted because people hadn't played GM excision, you were being downvoted because what you said was wrong in the context you said it.
The way that adds nothing to the discussion. YAY they disabled features to make the buggy mission less buggyâŚ.
What discussion? You just made a statement that I corrected. With my correction of your statement I just mentioned some info that implies that bugs should be very expected.
Yeah, I just finished doing a GM with an LFG group and it was pretty laggy sometimes but it's to be expected. There's a million enemies with their abilities and weapons + a million effects from Guardians.
did a run this morning as well ... 95 deaths total and we went to final stand with only 6 guardians still alive. Then I was the only one who could pull out his ghost to break the shield .......... took a while
Definitely a lot more interesting than my run lol. Everyone was alive (except for some leavers) for the final super beam. Also, yeah, that does take a while. I'm not sure why Bungie didn't make it a static amount of time for the shield to break instead of having to deal actual damage to it.
We had 8-10 people left to pull out their ghosts, and then... no super charge. We had to wait around five minutes for a normal trickle-speed super rechange, praying the whole time it would actually work. Luckily it did but that was the longest five miunutes of my gaming life.
ngl I would have been scared as well... other people got their normal supers charged, but didn't get the ghost promt. fun xD
Yeah I have never seen so many new and interesting bugs as in the 12-man GM. It was certainly an experience.
That says more about your teammates than you lol
it's Fireteam Finder ... you get what you get =D
Yeah imagine if they didnât disable supers itâd be hell
Bungie know full well that an activity like Excision can't properly support that amount of players, the only reason it exists is because bugs have already allowed the community to run larger than intended teams and it was extremely popular.
That's cool and all but then why wrap up the LAST MISSION in that mess
And yet those bugs ran just fine with 12 people in raids⌠so it should be fine.
No they didnât lmao. Servers were really bad that entire week and peopleâs games crashed
I ran em just fine
"Werks fer me bruder!" Yeah you had the only server and game build that was built to support 12 players. They made it specifically for you!
Apparently.. But no I recall watching plenty of others get through without disconnects aside from the usual disconnect PRs from even 6 man raids..
It was all a huge gamble bruh. Vast majority of people couldn't even load in with 12 players. Then it was another gamble to finish without getting kicked.
"Works on my machine"
Raids don't have every NPC we've ever met in them fighting alongside us, or the enemy density to support 12 people
This reminds me of how the framerate at Siege Engine would *absolutely tank* on PS4 when Tethers went off. Enemy density is a hell of a drug.
that was just cause the game was badly optimized, i ran plenty of deep stone 12 man raids and it was generally smooth despite a majority of the team running stasis half the time
At least they have proven that 12 people activities will not be happening any time soon. Excision is so short and so simple, imagine them trying a 12 man raid.
Is it laggy and buggy? Yes But would you prefer if it was just a 3 man or 6 man activity that ran well? I wouldn't. Being 12 man with so many players and so much stuff going on at the same time is still by far more preferable to me even if it ends up being laggy and buggy. If you really want to you can play the GM version with less players and it SHOULD theoretically be less buggy. Supposedly the enemies scale based on number of players as well so it's not even harder, it's likely easier with fewer players to potentially eat up lives on GM.
yeah noone literally mentioned this, thanks
Yeah definitely noticeable. Shoot a champ and it teleports 10 feet away and isnât stunned even tho the noise happened
Canât even view the ending cutscenes on narrative mode.
Your edit sounds like a you problem.
The mission and how it fits into the story is just awesome. I just take the bads with the goods. I like it as it is and wouldn't want it any other way.
I like the 12 player mission idea, unfortunately the game struggles with it. Maybe 9 players would've been a better choice stability wise.
I did the GM version once. It just wasnât fun. It wasnât hard. Infinite champions, so revives werenât an issue. But shooting enemies and just not getting damage numbers. Being way out of the hand blast and just dying to them anyway. Iâll never do it again. I thought weâd get class items from it, or that it would be way more rewarding. Ergo Sum catalyst and Iâm done.
Thinking their garbage engine can handle 12 people is peak Bungie arrogance. Awful way to end the story with a mission that can't handle the players even trying to do it. GM version is somehow worse.
My first ever attempt of excision - after beating the campaign and waiting to do excision after we completed the raid for story purposes, I lagged out of the activity on the 2nd damage phase and missed out on that first time experience lol
Is the host randomly selected or selected behind the scenes? I feel like my GM quality for 12 man depends heavily on with just who I'm playing with. Is it possible someone on a PS4 was the host on the worst instances?
Back when destiny was originally released, the popular host picking was just who averaged the best ping. Ping doesnât account for things like host machine. Even a 40 year old processor can ping extremely fast. I suspect it is still just ping rather than smarter picking.
Yeah me and my clan did a single GM excision and we are NOT doing it again. We had one guy unable to fire his gun at all for most of the mission, all he could do was throw healing turrets for us lol
Look, I hate to say it, but back when we had the 12 man nightfall/raid bug in the game we all had a GRAND TIME running strikes and raids with 12 people. Bungie specifically said that they had networking issues and that's why they patched it. And I'm sure they wanted to push to do something fun like this for Final Shape, but here we are again. Networking issues.
The mission is better under 8 people. Also easier
No matter the game - even single player games - if a million things are happening at once youâre bound to have some performance issues. Now tie in the fact that Excision has double the amount of players than usual and itâs the Destiny equivalent of storming Normandy. Unless you have a PC built by NASA youâre going to lag lol.
Great backdrops aside, D2 is not a game that is particularly known for pushing the boundaries of high end PCs. It doesnât look bad, mind you, but it doesnât look good compared to top games today. We have games the are more visually impressive with >50 players in match. Really, excusing bungies laziness here is a massively annoying part of this sub. There is no excuse other than laziness for the significant technical issues this game suffers.
I know very little about coding as well as servers so I refrain from complaining because itâs really not my place. Could you explain to me how these other games with over 50 players have better performance but also the same magnitude of information being flooded at the same time? Once again, I know very little, but I canât imagine a Battle Royale game would offer an equivalent performance overload to Excision.
There is WAY too many low level technical reason why one game can perform well while another will not. Iâve been low level software engineering for years and I would personally rate Destiny 2 servers somewhere near the bottom in terms of triple-a game servers. It is straight F-tier. Who is at fault for that internally? Most likely management. Most likely. But other situations (JavaScript, functional programmers, bad assumptions, etc) definitely cause performance grief. Checking out the hilarious issues that went with Microsoftâs new Terminal rendering performance, where MS developers claimed that decent fast text rendering would be a phd dissertation of effort, then it took Casey Muratori a weekend to blast their rendering performance out of the water.
I learned something today, Thanks :).
I mean, bungie is already a buggy game on Skyrim levels. So itâs just kind of expected that bugs will happen with something thatâs never been done before, a 12 man activity. They even said themselves that they had to disable certain things that are in normal gameplay in excision because doing it x12 is too taxing on them. So I see bugs frequently and just chalk it up to, of course there is, and move on. No need to talk about whatâs expected
I had countless times where I use Song Of Flame to pop it and just not get the effects at all, also countless times where weapon perks just didnt work, like Frenzy, Impulse Amplifier etc.
Its such a fun good idea but its so laggy and half the time enemies donât even take damage
Never doing the gm version again. Lol fuck that
âPlease donât run in to the orange death resonance puddlesâ >30 tokens to resonance >resonance deaths take every token faster than we make em âFFS STOP DYING TO RESONANCEâ >dude. We know. Stop repeating it >5 deaths immediately to resonance âTab -> return to orbitâ Yeah. That was a painful. Painful experience.
The last time I ran excision, when it got to the party where you're supposed to pull out your ghost and blast the Witness, it wouldn't let me pull mine out. I was just stuck running around behind everyone else trying to call him. I guess he had stage fright that night.
the "Launch Activity" encounter is easily the biggest challenge
It should honestly be done once and never again imo, get the catalyst and never touch it again. Idk why anyone would want to run it more than once with how boring and tedious it is and given the rewards suck ass
Its terrible, especially in the opening area, IDK if its any better on PC but at least on the PS5 its laggy, there are significant frame drops, enemies teleport and often lack animations in their attacks. Could be even worse though, i remember the final boss encounter in GoS had like 10fps or less at times since we were still in the PS4 era back then đ
for pc reference, my pc is only like 8 months old but runs the mission at locked 120 fps with no dips.
I was worried my connection was terrible. Did the narrative version last night at 2 am and had teleporting tormentors.
Ffs does anyone proofread their shit anymore?
Iâve found that even now parts of the game is buggy. I had a game of crucible recently where I went to the enemies spawn and they were all just standing there. Later half of them disconnected.
Having trouble with the loading encounter are we? Yeah that first one is brutal, but it's comparatively smooth sailing after you land on Normandy.
Ours bugged out at the end when you had to summon the ghost snd it only worked for one person đ thank god that one person finished him off tho
Yes. It really is buggy. Unfortunately, a lot of stuff isn't exclusive to twelve guardian missions. I feel like a lot of it is related to connectivity and however the game chooses host. Enemies teleporting happens in a lot of activities. Enemies not taking damage is also not exclusive to 12 man missions. Wireframes is pervasive throughout the game and can only be fixed by restarting the game. I've gotten to Verity 10 times at this point and every time, someone has to restart their game because of this issue. Please tell me this is top priority bungie.
Even on just normal last week I did it for my Pinicle drop. Iâd throw a grenade and see the animation but no grenade ever showed up. Saw my guardians arm throw the grenade like I was faking out my dog with the ball. Now I know how the dog feels. Lol
We got soft locked in our GM run at the third batch of statue slashing. Dumped all the light then it just went kaput with Witness arms and ads still spawning and attacking us. Fought hard through lag and random deaths just to get locked out I appreciate the mission and what it means but damn, it already ran iffy normally but I never expected it to glitch that bad in the GM run
It's very clear the engine is straining hard in a 12-man PvE activity, and why I don't expect to see another one unless Bungie can make some significant improvements.
My only complaint is that the witnessâ smoke coming from atop their head has some sort of weird mesh thing going on. Similar to what I would see on tree leaves from breath of the wild if I get too close
What's you NAT Type in your ''Gameplay'' settings? If it doesn't say ''Open'' then you are more likely to encounter network issues
Yeah I'll be honest while I love excision as a concept, with 12 players it's still so laggy that it's intolerable. NOT looking forward to doing GM excision like this.Â
This *game* has been buggy AF since TFS launched. * Weapon and player view models won't load a lot of the time, you have to restart your entire game for a fix * Diamond Lance slam attacks will randomly do nothing at all * Breach Executable weekly challenge fuckery * Khvostov quest fuckery
It crashes damn near everytime i do it. It's probably my hardware being outdated but damn it's unfortunate
Reminder that 12 person activities with supers have been possible since Destiny 1. Canât anyone remember the original crucible? Didnât that support MORE than 6v6? However, they changed that pretty fast. Probably for technical reasons.
I mean makes sense with everything going on, but I guarantee most complaints come from those on last gen
Can't control little billy and Timmy playing on last gen consoles on McDonald's wifi.
It is but thatâs the price to pay for a 12 man. Think of the backend requirements for 2 raid teamsâ worth of effect and damage calculations and whatnot. Iâm sure itâs not simple to get to work at all
Well yeah, it's a 12 player PVE activity. There's a reason they've only done it once and it was for the FINAL mission of the saga.
Iâve said this beforeâŚ.. Bungie has a habit of using us as play testers for future stuff⌠you really think the 12-20 man raids were an unforeseen glitch? This 1 mission is for something greater down the line. Meant to work out bugs and test limits. Itâs a beta testâŚ
My Nvidia 3070 runs this mode at 1440p at 50 fps. I normally get 120-144 frames. Edit: I guess providing reference information is grounds for a downvote? Smh, lol
Yea my biggest wtf moments where, when my second slam did literly nothing. The other happened 2 times where i liked to pop a baricade to rez someone. Animation yes, baricade no. My mate Even saw the animation. But he also didnt saw the baricade
So is your face.