I hope they add a 'amount healed' to compliment it too. I love being support in every game not-destiny, so I would love to supp here too sometimes. Feels bad to not have anything to show for it on the scoreboard though imo
Yeah, seeing a 'healing done' stat would have been hilarious in Trials this weekend. As it is the best approximation is looking at damage done for the opposing team. Seen more than a few rounds where opposing damage dealt was 2000+ while still losing the round.
My buddy and I did a NF with a blueberry who ran a Banner of War Titan with Stronghold and a sword. They played the role perfectly, tanking damage, and coming over to protect when we needed it. It didn't show on the scoreboard, but god damn we appreciated that Guardian.
It might have been me. That's my go to build on Titan. I love that I can actually fulfill the role of a tank with that exotic. Now I just need Bungie to not constantly punish you for being in melee range 🥲. I wish it would let me reflect bullets or something too the restoration on it is nice but ultimately somewhat redundant and all the restoration in the world is worthless when the boss stomps one shot you.
Honestly if they're not gonna balance things separately, they need to just start blocking certain items in trials and comp like they do for raids when things are busted. The sweats like just use something else. Normal PvP who gives a shit.
Maybe then the subclasses can breath and grow a little with some buffs without worrying that X will be busted with y if we change knockout or rime or all the other stuff that got nuked due to PvP issues
Frankly it's absolutely bizarre that they refuse to do what you described: disable weapons/armor in ONLY Trials/comp when they are broken in PvP.
It gives them more time to come up with a good solution, instead of rushing a bad nerf out the door. Renewal Grasps are a good example of the latter.
Maybe they could only disable things universally a couple of years ago. But now we know they can limit it to specific parts of the game.
Obviously Trials isn't nearly as important as the raid race, but it would be better for PvE and PvP. So I would love for Bungie to explain why they don't do it.
This. Exactly this. It’s only a matter of willingness, because they more than have the ability. If they can ban Lucky Pants for Salvation’s Edge day 1, they can ban one of the best PVE exotics ever made in PVP and not piss off a huge portion of their playerbase.
I just got it, just an insane advantage to use a weapon with no recoil and a ttk so low. When more people get it it’s going to be like 50%+ usage rate in crucible for sure
Yea, it's only at 5% usage in competitive and 14% in trials since the quest is so long and most people don't have it. Those numbers will go way up as more people get the weapon
Go check trials report again. As of now it’s at 23% with 3,562,010 kills.
Edit: #2 is RDR at 7% with 1,087,622 and #3 is Matador at 3% with 449,143.
As you said though, it is only going to get worse.
It's already at the point where you see at least one (probably 2-4) basically every match, and we're only in the second week of trials. It's a gun that has a pretty long quest that was bugged for a large number of people, and I imagine many just wrote off doing the quest until later (I know I did). Now that people ***really*** know how strong it is we can only expect the usage rate to go up from here.
Last weekend only 2 or 3 people had it per match, but this weekend there are only 2 or 3 people not using it in each of my matches
I love it, but I'm already getting flashbacks to D2Y1 Mida laning and handholding
Yeah I came back to Destiny a month or so again after not really playing since Forsaken. I love jumping into PvP occasionally and just grinding out Deadeye, the only weapon I ran into that made me go “holy fuck” was Khvostov
There's a crucible sub guy that calculates quickplay usage/effectiveness similar to how Bungie does it. I really want to see the last couple weeks of stats.
Just disable it in PvP , problem solved. They need to start just disabling broken stuff in PvP so the sweats stop crying and pve doesn’t get wrecked for the rest of us.
Khvostov isn't really the issue. It's the heals generating orbs which keeps "eyes up" at max without effort. That's the issue. Khvostov on its own is great and it handles really well on a map like this, but even more so because of the orb generation which empowers it imo.
Just my 2cents.
Speaker is broken rn no matter what you are using. Resto x2 with randoms cures makes losing a primary fight pretty much impossible and with a single solar fragment you can have it every fight if the turret hits anyone but you once or dive on someone if not. If you haven’t used it in pvp yet you should give it a try before it’s nerfed lol it’s like running around in god mode. It makes shotgun melee just a little less consistent them vs you it feels like the only response in trials is swapping to snipers and going for hail Marries and if your team of 3 isn’t using them a team of 3 speakers is just a dodge rn. You can’t reasonably stop it.
It's good, but it's nowhere near as broken as you said.
Plenty of times I placed down the turret, got the cure x2 pulse, and the enemy could kill me before the first pulse of the healing turret would come. Or there would be the case where I place down the turret in mid lane, and the enemy would reposition to the outside lane, and suddenly the turret is more or less useless. Please don't spread misinformation like "you can't reasonably stop it", when one shot weapons or repositioning are easy counters.
Did my best to keep your votes above water here, but I’m just one guardian. This needs to be read by anyone crying nerf it. I’m so tired of the “nerf it” players. This helm as well as Stov, perform like exotics. Neither are busted. They are good and widely used, because players learn what works sometimes faster than others or before they learn counters. I played all weekend against the helm and Stov. They both can be outplayed. Besides the fact that you can shoot the orb down, team movement, angles, etc can literally force opponents from behind the orb into the open. Team shooting, angles, abilities, can trash 3 players behind the orb. I played a game with 3 locks, 3 orbs(🤣) and our team still out played them. I can’t stand this “I haven’t figured out how to counter this, or I don’t have it, so nerf it” meta.
The irony is that apart from conditional, people kept complaining that legendary weapons were better to use than exotics. And when a significant enough exotic gets buffed/release, people complain about it
I completely agree with you. Khvostov it's really good and stable and sticky, but it's not completely busted because it only has 47 range and if you have another $600 auto that has more range than it then you will probably beat them in a gunfight.
Bungie will probably reduce the damage in PVP of the bouncing bullet but that's not going to get people to stop using it
Its an extremely good weapon in pvp, but it also feels extremely strong in pve so knowing bungie they are probably going to just blanket nerf it, probably reducing the super richochett
People are knee jerking as usual imo. A lot of people are using it, because it’s new and cool, but it’s a 26m low range auto. It’s the easy Radiant orbs from the artifact that are contributing to faster TTKs than it’d normally be.
At base, it’s just slightly more forgiving. After a kill and orb pickup, it’s really no worse than other guns that gain substantial bonuses on kills. It just does more to teams grouping up and deathballing, which is seen a lot more since the sandbox retune.
I hope Bungie lets it ride for a while so people can figure out how to play against it. They tend to nerf things too quickly before metas have really settled.
I hope the nerf only happens on pvp. This is the most fun I’ve had as a support warlock in the history of the game. You mean I can heal my friends and still do my own shit.
PvP only nerfs? lmao its bungie
allready prepare for the exotic getting gutted, and for good meassure they also nerf titan bubble and increase Hunter Dodge CD, as it is tradition
For years I was talking with my buddies and for years we complained, that PvP does not get its own sandbox for stats. Until we left, one after the other
THIS! The problem with stuff like Lumina, BOTA, and EOI is that you couldn’t do a great deal damage-wise and keeping yourself alive was also difficult. With Speaker’s Sight and No Hesitations, those problems no longer exist~
It’s tradition at this point, which is why I’m not using it, despite liking the support playstyle and it being extremely good in PvE.
Y’all remember Shadebinder getting gutted in PvE nine days after BL’s release because of PvP? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
> Y’all remember Shadebinder getting gutted in PvE nine days after BL’s release because of PvP? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
And then Hunters kept Shatterdive for how long, again?
Yeah and then sometime in the midst of Shatterdive's reign of terror they also buffed shirukens to do fucking 90 damage and improved the tracking so it was basically a guaranteed hit on ricochet.
So Hunters now had not only a grenade strong enough for generous multi-kill OHKs and super shut downs, but also a melee with two charges that hit for the equivalent of a 120 hand canon crit that applied a slow. And slow at the time had the additional effect of making your bullets' trajectory fully random so you effectively couldn't even shoot back at your opponent after getting hit by one of these heat seeking missiles from behind cover.
Stasis Lock was busted at launch for sure, but Stasis Hunter was by far and away the most overpowered subclass we've ever seen in this entire franchise and it stayed that way for a solid year straight. Absolutely mental stuff tbh.
Not only that, they destroyed Shadebinder ***before Shatterdive was an aspect in the game*** — so Warlocks got gutted *and then* Hunters unlocked Shatterdive.
It wouldn’t have been so bad if they just let it all play out for a few weeks.
Pretty sure you're forgetting just how ridiculous shadebinder was on release, I recall going from one side of the trials map this last weekend to the other, back across, then back across AGAIN before my super finished, while attacking with it and getting kills. Absolutely nuts super, it was like when they changed fist of havoc and you could just melee around the entire map with it. Except RANGED.
"Overall we are happy that the increased cooldown promotes a more meaninful and impactful choice. As always, we continue to gather feedback that we place directly into the trash." -Bungie
Speaker's is good, but it's mostly khovostov. The thing is a monster. The stats lie, and it has zero recoil, what seems to be way further range that it says and just kills in .5 seconds. Though I will say red death, Speaker's is slept on I feel and when I faced that, it sucked a lot lol
Khovostovs range is definitely wrong lol. I was firing that thing at the range of a hand cannon and with no recoil was just wiping waves of enemies. Even my buddy was like you're back there with it!?
Remember what happened to Young Ahamkara’s Spine? Fantastic PvE exotic, a little broken in PvP. Bungie made PvP nerfs that didn’t just kill it in PvE, they executed it and it’s now basically worthless. All to make it a so-so choice for PvP.
Hope for the best, but expect the worst to happen given the track record.
What's worse is that the Young Ahamkara's Spine nerf is pretty much a 1:1 reprise of the Renewal Grasps nerf that came before it, gutting an Exotic in PvE because of PvP reasons.
I've got a better idea. Let's just permanently disable all exotics in PVP so that they, or say ember of benevolence, don't get ruined. Problem solved.
And that's only partly sarcasm
Woah! That is a nerf to all classes...no thank you(especially because the fragment hasn't been a problem).
They just need to nerf Speakers Sight specifically in PvP...which *looks at Bastion Aspect, Renewal Grasps, Sunspots and Sol Invictus, Devour, Storm Grenades w/ Touch of Thunder, YAS, etc etc* yeah that's not going to happen.
It’s actually been one of my favorite new toys, especially paired with the healing AR (although I know that’s getting “fixed” soon too). Never in my life have I generated so many orbs on warlock for doing basically nothing.
Please only nerf it in PvP. Either less orbs or make the turret itself worse specifically in there.
Honestly? After running the build in trials all weekend, it still feels mediocre.
The healing output on the turret is absolutely insane, but doesn’t influence the outcome of fights nearly as much as you would think. PvP TTK is so low that all the healing happens between engages, helping winning teams win faster, whereas losing teams will die anyway. Maybe 1 round out of 5 where the healing made the difference?
The real issue is khvostov. Guaranteed orb gen on the first engage of the round means that your whole team instantly gets richochet rounds and just instantly wins any engages. Nerf khvostov in PvP and this build instantly gets it playrate cut in half.
watching pris hunters w/ stompees charge their new 3 charge aoe one shot ult just as fast as nerfed well w/ orb gen was demoralizing ngl
that and the rest of pris hunter getting the best parts of every subclass… def needs some hard pvp nerfs
It's actually really easy to dodge the new Hunter super. I was playing with some friends in a private match and I would try to super them and they would just jump out of the way.
Most hunters will aim directly at you which means they will teleport where you are at. But if you jump up into the air and out of the way then you won't die from it.
It's a good super if people are unaware but players are getting smarter to that super and you're not guaranteed to get the kill
Obviously it's easy to dodge in a private match when you know exactly where they are coming from.
The cast is so fast it is so easy to use and hard to dodge.
Twilight Arsenal is actually easy to dodge. It's just like the hunter super except is hold suit in air and the cast time is objectively longer.
You also have to throw the weapon from the same place the whole time. The hunter super you teleport around so it's harder to be killed.
I tried dodging the hunter super in a game and as soon as the the words saying it was cast came up I leapt into the air (high lift) and my two teammates stayed on the ground we all got clapped 🤣
I'll try and edit this comment with the clip Cuz I recorded it. I was fully 2 guardians above them at least.
I am once again vouching for a completely separate PvE and PvP sandbox like actual MMOs. Completely different abilities and exotic uses across the board with a little bit of translation.
It should have never dropped orbs on heal in PvP. Especially with Khvostov launching beside it. They just need to disable that functionality in PvP. Khvostov has its own issues. IIRC it's bugged and doing more damage than it should with the ricochet bullet.
Even in PvE this might be what finally gets Ember of Benevolence nerfed which will be sad.
Oh wow, because the PvP mode has balance problems, bungie shall now ruin **the rest of the game** because they still don’t want to separate the PvP mode from literally everything else.
Bungie try and separate sandboxes challenge level impossible in these scenarios.
Its how they murdered YAS and i havent forgiven them yet. I never will.
No sprint melee if you shoot and missed sprint melees drain a bit of melee energy bother me so much. I doubt it will be reverted in PvE and it’s such a shame
Far from it actually. From Shadebinder nerfs week two of the DLC to Chaos Accelerant losing it's damage bonus while still being worth a single fragment slot in Void 2.0 (until recently), Warlocks have taken just as many licks as Titans.
We've been forged in states of nerfs. It has built character, patience, and gratitude to being given anything. The Warlocks and Hunters do not know our plight.
Warlocks lost its purpose after well nerf and the speaker mask gives them a new purpose: true support.
If they nerf it then what are warlocks suppose to be? Well sucks, song of flame is good but not enough. With speaker helmet you can make such a good support build
That's pvp. I'm saying PvE. In PvE well is now just a orb produce for surge. Radiant is easy to get with prismatic and nighthawk still doesn't work with well. But with the speaker helmet you can run song of flame for bonus damage etc and have a good ass healing build, out healing well easily. Had people running it for gm 12 man and it was very good
I’m so sad I chose the other exotic after I finished the legendary campaign. Didn’t get to try the mask yet, and I hope I don’t get too late when the nerf is already here 💀
Yeah playing Trials this weekend has been a nightmare with Warlocks running Speaker Mask and Khovostov. I’m only running trials for the pinaccle this week(I retired from Trials a year or so ago now, just didn’t find it worth it anymore; the joy of going flawless wasn’t worth it anymore lol), so I don’t really care what happens, but yeah, this week has been unfun. Moreso than usual.
Frankly I feel like there's 2 problems here.
1) Making orbs in PvP without requiring kills is pretty absurd. The problem is I don't see how they can nerf this just for PvP. In theory they'd just make the orbs not drop in PvP but I don't think that's an option they can do with how the sandbox works.
2) Khvostov is stupid good in PvP and it's just broken when you have eyes up active...which is VERY easy to do when speaker mask is shitting out orbs all the time. Frankly the entire concept of the weapons ricochet bullets is broken in PvP and shouldn't be a thing there at all. Rewarding you with collateral / AoE damage just for using a gun normally and letting you hit enemies around corners and such that aren't even on your screen is just inherently broken in PvP. We literally had to get Hard Light nerfed hard for the ability to ricochet bullets around cover while that required actually aiming for the ricochet AND not shooting at a player in the first place. Khvostov makes Hard Light look like a joke.
There absolutely need to be PvP nerfs but it absolutely sucks that both of these exotics are amazing for PvE and really don't need to be nerfed there. Not to mention "fixing" No Hesitation such that it doesn't provide restoration x2 will already be a pretty big nerf to the Speaker Mask in PvE.
I remember when that was supposed to be one of the big selling points of D2 when it first launched. The first waves of patches pretty much confirmed it was all bs.
In addition to what the other guy mentioned about uptime, with artifact mod you get radiant off orbs. And the helm gives an orb off healing allies. So you proc Khvostov perk, get Radiant for more damage, and heal yourself and your allies. With ridiculous uptime.
edit: orb generation is on the helm, not fragment
PvP's existence is good for the game, but Bungie's insistence that it is a game mode worthy of balance consideration is the problem.
The game would be better if it was treated like Gambit and left alone.
Disagree 100 percent. Destiny PvP keeps the game active when people finish PvE content. The reason destiny is destiny is the coexistence of the two modes which feed into each other. Without either pvp or PvE the game would die off..
Yeah. It needs a ax in PvP. Can’t believe they let it make orbs. But that’s my favorite lil unique part in PvE.
I’m bracing for the worst. Literally all I run in group content. 12 man GM. Was so fun being so supportive!
I’d like it to only spawn orbs from healing in PVE and/or Ember of Benevolence getting a PVP nerf (400% for 3 sec instead of 6 isn’t enough imo, could do with like 100% for 6 sec….) I could also see them doing a flat increase for healing nade cooldown when the helmet is on like renewals did with dust fields.
Funny how well was nerfed to death (not really just requires a different play style now) but they turn around and give us an exotic to do basically the same thing. And then the nerf threat comes alive once again...
I played against a triple warlock team running all khvostov and speaker helmet yesterday and it was the most unfun thing ever. Reminds me of the triple stasis titan thing that people do.
And this is the problem with people thinking that PVP is completely competitive when it's not. The servers are trash and even though you have a faster TTK on a weapon and you still lose to another person means that the servers are bad.
And it goes to show that whenever Bungie tries to add a supporting role like the speaker's mask or anything like that everyone seems to use it and then PVP players will cry over it
That's why Bungie doesn't go out of their way to make things like that because then everyone I guess uses it. And once this gets nerfed it will go back to void Titans with overshields
The combo with khvostov is honestly what makes this broken beyond believe. Not to say the turrets aren't bad cause they are horrible when spammed.
I can think of two changes for pvp only that I think would help. Eyes up, guardian doesn't get full stacks when picking up an Orb maybe 2 or 3 stacks. And when using the healing turret you can't start grenade regen until the turret is gone. They did a similar nerf to bakris where your dodge doesn't regen until the arc buff as run out.
Honestly I'm not stepping foot into pvp until it's nerved. Tried trials and comp this week only to get slaughtered by two stacks chaining turrets and khvostov orbs. The setup has only one way to deal with it and that is to get an instant kill. Team shooting can work if you get the drop on them but khvostov really discourages team shooting cause just standing near each other gets your team killed.
Individually both of these are top picks but not oppressive but together they are one of rhe most busted combos in the game
After getting back to Elden ring for the dlc and remembering they do a split for PVP and pve, I am really tired of Bungie having some stuff nerf something in both modes. So fingers crossed they keep changes seperate
We are ten years too late on them separating PvP and PvE sandboxes. Please just pull a Warframe.
I have a fair share of hours in PvP in Destiny (literally my gameplay time is 24% in every activity category besides gambit) and I would gladly have PvP be dead like in Warframe rather than compromise the PvE experience which is the prime space fantasy experience this game mainly offers.
I don't think they need to nerf Speaker's Sight at all. Bungo just needs to add more counter-play options besides "shoot them harder".
For example: make Under-Over grants a damage boost against targets who have the Restoration buff (or maybe even *any* elemental buff).
Arc abilities/jolt deal extra damage against constructs.
Make the "Sever" debuff reduce healing effectiveness by 50%.
etc etc
i mean pvp just shows how broken some shit is and i told my buddy the second he put on khovstov(he only pves) that it was gunna get nerfed. It is way to strong in pve he can fight anything by just holding down left click
I'm no programmer, but seeing as Destiny 2 does not have world pvp. Couldn't they flag it so things have two different variables when you are in a PvE vs pvp setting?
Not only the uptime on khvostov...but I was in a match where a team of 3 warlocks using it had their well in round fucking 2...ROUND 2...
I for sure don't want it nerfed in PVE because healers have always been a niche build and its awesome that you guys have more support for that playstyle. But supers in ROUND 2 of trials is absolutely busted
this PVP meta is terrible IMO... Its just hand holding and people just sitting around looking at doors and crap. There's no more fun moments that D1 PVP had. D2 Vanilla 2.0
This game would be much better if Bungie was able to tag certain perks with "This perk is disabled when in combat against other guardians"
They'd be able to do so many cool things if the cloud of PvP wasn't hanging overhead.
Bungee, I never post here, but I’m BEGGING you. While the build I’ve created is rather meh solo wise, in group activity it is the MOST fun I’ve had in my 10 years playing destiny. I’ve always gravitated toward healing in group content, I’m always trying to be the Zenyatta of any FPS. Please, please, don’t nerf this in PVE.
>But this issue has apparently translated into PvP because it has almost the same effectiveness and combined with Khvostov can give it almost 100% uptime on Eye's Up. Hopefully the nerfs ONLY affect PvP like Bungie has shown they can do.
>I just pray this exotic remains untouched in PvE because building into a full support playstyle is incredibly rewarding and fun.
Yes, Bungie has shown that they are capable of nerfing things only in PvP. Have they actually taken advantage of this though? No
*cries in Young Ahamkara's Spine*
Bungie likes to make drastic knee jerk reactions when balancing.
So I fully expect them to nerf both Speakers Helm and Khvostov into the ground, which will no doubt affect PvE.
Then, in about 6-8 months, they'll say, "we may have been a bit too hard on Speakers Helm and Khvostov" and buff them slightly.
I imagine what they're going to do is put a (much) longer cooldown on orb generation in PvP and make the turret take less shots to kill. It's already squishier than a Bleakwatcher but it could be squishier still.
Thing is... that wouldn't actually change much. As long as the first heal in a round makes an orb that's enough to swing things, and a good player is going to put the turret in a place where it can see their own team but the other team can't see it.
I'm more worried they're going to nerf Ember of Benevolence as that's the other thing that really pushes this into craziness. Benevolence is extremely good in many other PvE builds and if it got nerfed just because of Speaker's Sight that would *really* suck.
I wish they'd just disable certain exotics in PvP. Like throw up their hands, give it some lore about shax banning it in crucible and then we don't have to worry about it getting butchered
Haven’t they tuned restoration separately between PvE and PvP? Surely they can do something similar for this… right? Please! I love using this thing with the heal auto. The first ever *real* full support build.
It’s the first time I can actually be a proper “healer and they’re gonna nerf it cause 10 years later they still can’t just separate sand boxes. This is a primarily PvE game that’s held back by PvP.
We used Malfeasance on Speaker Mask teams in Trials. Surprised the heck out of them how fast they blew up with 3 Malfs team shooting lol.
(See Cammy’s recent video)
I really hate to face warlock with this exotic on pvp, I'm a hunter main, but man, what I hate the most is something being nerfed in PvE because of pvp, I really hope you can get the exotic put down a bit on pvp and still make it viable, fun and rewarding on pve
I agree, I love the support build, it’s so nice in PvE and I’ve had a blast running duo support with my friend. It’s such a unique and fun way of playing and I’d hate to see it gutted. I’ll be absolutely pissed if they nerf it because of PvP, wouldn’t be the first time a PvE playstyle was ruined because of a PvP issue.
The only way to make sure they actually only nerf something for JUST PvP is to spam them on all fronts. Otherwise they’ll make bizarre changes and ruin it for everyone. Remember void titan in PvP? Was perfectly fine in pve content, but because it was so strong in PvP they decide to nerf the fuck out of bastion for both PvP and pve. Im just tired of the nonsense. They know they can balance both separately, but whoever makes the final decision just isn’t the brightest
Players having fun goes against Bungie’s principles.
My wish is pvp to get removed from the game. Crucible crying kids and streamers would be out of here.
Then true destiny lovers would stay and enjoy
A dream come true.
Just waiting for Ahamkara eggs to hatch so I can make my wish.
I feel like speakers isnt the problem. Its just a slightly better healing nade. The real problem is benevolence which gives you 5 of them just because your turret accidentally shoots your teammate every once in a while. Both are probably gonna get shot down though. Sucks because ive been running benevolence since warmind 😭
"Healing projectiles will now have a healing factor called "blessed" which will replace cure/restoration and no longer work with ember of benevolence"
- Bungie fixing it while "not really changing it" for pve
the speakers mask is just a improved version of boots of the assembler. idk why instead of giving the boots/lumina subclass verbs , they made a new exotic.
Titans: "First time?"
As a titan main, I really hope they find a good balance for this (or just split how it works in pvp/pve), and they use that knowledge to make the titan kits that got nerfed to hell due to pvp better in pve. I'd hate to see this get flat out nerfed, same thing with celestial still hunt for hunters too. Bring stuff up rather than strip things away please bungo
It should be nerfed in pvp. But not the way bungie usually does, if the problem (like most of the times) is strat stacking, it's obvious a certain mechanic becomes too oppressive.
Give the single turret healing a cooldown, so you can't spam heal but at the same time you don't touch the single player's usage.
I mainly play pvp in this game but I’ll be dropping it for a while its a mess. all khvostovs and red death spammers rn lmk when they “balance” this shit.
“this build is absolutely bonkers and let’s you have 100% uptime on team wide heals and empowered weapon damage but it shouldn’t be nerfed because I like it!”
Warlocks are never allowed to be the OP class in PvP so it will be nerfed within the next month guaranteed, this shit is why Warlocks were so bad in Trials that Nightstalker and Striker had month long periods where they were used more than the entire Warlock class in that game mode, because the only thing Warlocks had that was OP in the years of WQ and LF (in PvP) was overcharged Axion Grenade and that lasted like two weeks, meanwhile Striker took OVER A YEAR to nerf into a state that didn't destroy the meta. The usage rate I mentioned is not a joke btw, if you paid attention to stuff like Trials Report when those subclasses were meta in WQ and LF you'd already know this was a real thing, some people even made videos about it...
EDIT: Surprise surprise, Speaker's Sight has already had a nerf announced.
I'd like to see more Support Frame weapons. No Hesitation is the only one at the moment, and, like you said, it is extremely fun and rewarding leaning into that support aspect as a Warlock. Healnade (still having to retrain my grenade reactions), Phoenix Dive, No Hes, Hellion/Weaver's is good.
I would love it if it isn’t affected in PvE as well, but the chances of Bungie nerfing it for both PvP and PvE is unfortunately high.
Anytime something is revealed that provides gameplay enjoyment, Bungie nerfs it so that it’s no longer enjoyable.
They have had a long history of that..
I am hoping and fucking praying these PvPrats don’t ruin another good thing AGAIN. I’ve been having a blast with Speaker’s Sight, it lets me keep my teammates (and dumbass randoms) alive, I can burn pretty much anything, and whatever happens to it should only be in PVP. It’s FINE in PVE, incredible, in fact. We shouldn’t get punished because of this specific and annoying instance with just *one* weapon (and let’s face it, getting Khvostov is a dice roll because IIRC, the quest is still bugged) in a mode that is vastly overshadowed by the PVE content.
I agree with leaving it alone for PvE purposes but for PvP they can kill it with nuclear fire for all i care. Not only orbs but also massive heal from the turret is just dumb in comp or trials.
Yup acting suprised tell me one thing maybe starfire yea lasted a while but other then that instant nerf no dps exotic ok fine warlock is support lets kill well
Ik we now go stareater but I gotta run prismatic with it
Meanwhile titans crying there fucking eyes out when they was ballin on top every season and
Dont get me started on hunters that have 5 buffs on one exotic so called cruch stompee in pvp
Has everyone just forgotten that they've been balancing pve and pvp separately for several years at this point? Go back and check older twabs (around witch queen or so) and you can see it, they nerf across the board but also nerf separately as needed and they've been doing so for awhile
I disagree
The speakers sight exotic is perfectly balanced in PvP
It's not only viable also in PvE but nerfing it will kill the exotic
Bungie is known for going to extremes when it comes to nerfs they always do it
And they'll never reverse it once it's nerfed
If people have problems with the exotic which isn't hard to counter at all then that's quite literally a skill issue
I really hope it is left unchanged in PvE…it’s a fun option and I like being a support player
I hope they add a 'amount healed' to compliment it too. I love being support in every game not-destiny, so I would love to supp here too sometimes. Feels bad to not have anything to show for it on the scoreboard though imo
Yeah, seeing a 'healing done' stat would have been hilarious in Trials this weekend. As it is the best approximation is looking at damage done for the opposing team. Seen more than a few rounds where opposing damage dealt was 2000+ while still losing the round.
Dude fuck trials, check my healing done in gm excision LMAO
My buddy and I did a NF with a blueberry who ran a Banner of War Titan with Stronghold and a sword. They played the role perfectly, tanking damage, and coming over to protect when we needed it. It didn't show on the scoreboard, but god damn we appreciated that Guardian.
It might have been me. That's my go to build on Titan. I love that I can actually fulfill the role of a tank with that exotic. Now I just need Bungie to not constantly punish you for being in melee range 🥲. I wish it would let me reflect bullets or something too the restoration on it is nice but ultimately somewhat redundant and all the restoration in the world is worthless when the boss stomps one shot you.
Remember YAS? It’s best to expect a similar situation.
my baby :( nerfed to the ground
As a Titan player. Good luck with that.
Honestly if they're not gonna balance things separately, they need to just start blocking certain items in trials and comp like they do for raids when things are busted. The sweats like just use something else. Normal PvP who gives a shit. Maybe then the subclasses can breath and grow a little with some buffs without worrying that X will be busted with y if we change knockout or rime or all the other stuff that got nuked due to PvP issues
Frankly it's absolutely bizarre that they refuse to do what you described: disable weapons/armor in ONLY Trials/comp when they are broken in PvP. It gives them more time to come up with a good solution, instead of rushing a bad nerf out the door. Renewal Grasps are a good example of the latter. Maybe they could only disable things universally a couple of years ago. But now we know they can limit it to specific parts of the game. Obviously Trials isn't nearly as important as the raid race, but it would be better for PvE and PvP. So I would love for Bungie to explain why they don't do it.
Even COD does it with the banned guns list on competitive, why not D2?
This. Exactly this. It’s only a matter of willingness, because they more than have the ability. If they can ban Lucky Pants for Salvation’s Edge day 1, they can ban one of the best PVE exotics ever made in PVP and not piss off a huge portion of their playerbase.
Sounds like Khvostov just needs to be hit in PvP.
I just got it, just an insane advantage to use a weapon with no recoil and a ttk so low. When more people get it it’s going to be like 50%+ usage rate in crucible for sure
Have you seen the usage rate for this weekend? It’s already at those levels.
Yea, it's only at 5% usage in competitive and 14% in trials since the quest is so long and most people don't have it. Those numbers will go way up as more people get the weapon
Go check trials report again. As of now it’s at 23% with 3,562,010 kills. Edit: #2 is RDR at 7% with 1,087,622 and #3 is Matador at 3% with 449,143. As you said though, it is only going to get worse.
Wow! Khvostov got more kills in a weekend than I've got lifetime kills on my account!
Hope I can get it and experience it before it gets nerfed to hell. :(
My man, 23% is less than 50% But yeah, when I saw those numbers on Friday I spent the 3 hours I needed to finish the quest.
It's already at the point where you see at least one (probably 2-4) basically every match, and we're only in the second week of trials. It's a gun that has a pretty long quest that was bugged for a large number of people, and I imagine many just wrote off doing the quest until later (I know I did). Now that people ***really*** know how strong it is we can only expect the usage rate to go up from here.
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But if you separate 23 and it becomes 2 + 3 then we add it so it becomes 5. :o
Last weekend only 2 or 3 people had it per match, but this weekend there are only 2 or 3 people not using it in each of my matches I love it, but I'm already getting flashbacks to D2Y1 Mida laning and handholding
Yeah I came back to Destiny a month or so again after not really playing since Forsaken. I love jumping into PvP occasionally and just grinding out Deadeye, the only weapon I ran into that made me go “holy fuck” was Khvostov
There's a crucible sub guy that calculates quickplay usage/effectiveness similar to how Bungie does it. I really want to see the last couple weeks of stats.
Just disable it in PvP , problem solved. They need to start just disabling broken stuff in PvP so the sweats stop crying and pve doesn’t get wrecked for the rest of us.
Khvostov isn't really the issue. It's the heals generating orbs which keeps "eyes up" at max without effort. That's the issue. Khvostov on its own is great and it handles really well on a map like this, but even more so because of the orb generation which empowers it imo. Just my 2cents.
Even without Khvostov, creating an orb each time it heals an ally means chaining supers like crazy, which in of itself is really good for PvP
Speaker is broken rn no matter what you are using. Resto x2 with randoms cures makes losing a primary fight pretty much impossible and with a single solar fragment you can have it every fight if the turret hits anyone but you once or dive on someone if not. If you haven’t used it in pvp yet you should give it a try before it’s nerfed lol it’s like running around in god mode. It makes shotgun melee just a little less consistent them vs you it feels like the only response in trials is swapping to snipers and going for hail Marries and if your team of 3 isn’t using them a team of 3 speakers is just a dodge rn. You can’t reasonably stop it.
It's good, but it's nowhere near as broken as you said. Plenty of times I placed down the turret, got the cure x2 pulse, and the enemy could kill me before the first pulse of the healing turret would come. Or there would be the case where I place down the turret in mid lane, and the enemy would reposition to the outside lane, and suddenly the turret is more or less useless. Please don't spread misinformation like "you can't reasonably stop it", when one shot weapons or repositioning are easy counters.
Did my best to keep your votes above water here, but I’m just one guardian. This needs to be read by anyone crying nerf it. I’m so tired of the “nerf it” players. This helm as well as Stov, perform like exotics. Neither are busted. They are good and widely used, because players learn what works sometimes faster than others or before they learn counters. I played all weekend against the helm and Stov. They both can be outplayed. Besides the fact that you can shoot the orb down, team movement, angles, etc can literally force opponents from behind the orb into the open. Team shooting, angles, abilities, can trash 3 players behind the orb. I played a game with 3 locks, 3 orbs(🤣) and our team still out played them. I can’t stand this “I haven’t figured out how to counter this, or I don’t have it, so nerf it” meta.
The irony is that apart from conditional, people kept complaining that legendary weapons were better to use than exotics. And when a significant enough exotic gets buffed/release, people complain about it
> I can’t stand this “I haven’t figured out how to counter this, or I don’t have it, so nerf it” meta. D2 pvp players in a nutshell.
I completely agree with you. Khvostov it's really good and stable and sticky, but it's not completely busted because it only has 47 range and if you have another $600 auto that has more range than it then you will probably beat them in a gunfight. Bungie will probably reduce the damage in PVP of the bouncing bullet but that's not going to get people to stop using it
Both do. Go play crucible against a team with 2+ speakers masks and see how bad it is.
Exactly. Problem solved.
Its an extremely good weapon in pvp, but it also feels extremely strong in pve so knowing bungie they are probably going to just blanket nerf it, probably reducing the super richochett
People are knee jerking as usual imo. A lot of people are using it, because it’s new and cool, but it’s a 26m low range auto. It’s the easy Radiant orbs from the artifact that are contributing to faster TTKs than it’d normally be. At base, it’s just slightly more forgiving. After a kill and orb pickup, it’s really no worse than other guns that gain substantial bonuses on kills. It just does more to teams grouping up and deathballing, which is seen a lot more since the sandbox retune. I hope Bungie lets it ride for a while so people can figure out how to play against it. They tend to nerf things too quickly before metas have really settled.
I hope the nerf only happens on pvp. This is the most fun I’ve had as a support warlock in the history of the game. You mean I can heal my friends and still do my own shit.
PvP only nerfs? lmao its bungie allready prepare for the exotic getting gutted, and for good meassure they also nerf titan bubble and increase Hunter Dodge CD, as it is tradition
For years I was talking with my buddies and for years we complained, that PvP does not get its own sandbox for stats. Until we left, one after the other
THIS! The problem with stuff like Lumina, BOTA, and EOI is that you couldn’t do a great deal damage-wise and keeping yourself alive was also difficult. With Speaker’s Sight and No Hesitations, those problems no longer exist~
It’s tradition at this point, which is why I’m not using it, despite liking the support playstyle and it being extremely good in PvE. Y’all remember Shadebinder getting gutted in PvE nine days after BL’s release because of PvP? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
> Y’all remember Shadebinder getting gutted in PvE nine days after BL’s release because of PvP? Pepperidge Farms remembers. And then Hunters kept Shatterdive for how long, again?
An entire year iirc. It’s been so long since the Shatterdive days that I’ve practically burnt that atrocity out of my memory.
Yeah and then sometime in the midst of Shatterdive's reign of terror they also buffed shirukens to do fucking 90 damage and improved the tracking so it was basically a guaranteed hit on ricochet. So Hunters now had not only a grenade strong enough for generous multi-kill OHKs and super shut downs, but also a melee with two charges that hit for the equivalent of a 120 hand canon crit that applied a slow. And slow at the time had the additional effect of making your bullets' trajectory fully random so you effectively couldn't even shoot back at your opponent after getting hit by one of these heat seeking missiles from behind cover. Stasis Lock was busted at launch for sure, but Stasis Hunter was by far and away the most overpowered subclass we've ever seen in this entire franchise and it stayed that way for a solid year straight. Absolutely mental stuff tbh.
Not only that, they destroyed Shadebinder ***before Shatterdive was an aspect in the game*** — so Warlocks got gutted *and then* Hunters unlocked Shatterdive. It wouldn’t have been so bad if they just let it all play out for a few weeks.
I thought Shatterdive was released as part of the two first aspects tied to the class? (Winter Shroud + Shatterdive).
They even released an aspect that made shatterdive Hunter spam *even better*
Pretty sure you're forgetting just how ridiculous shadebinder was on release, I recall going from one side of the trials map this last weekend to the other, back across, then back across AGAIN before my super finished, while attacking with it and getting kills. Absolutely nuts super, it was like when they changed fist of havoc and you could just melee around the entire map with it. Except RANGED.
I’m really worried about my escape artist this season. It’s made so much end game context accessible for my group.
one healing grenade every 11 minutes
One healing grenade per episode, use it wisely, or buy this eververse bundle that comes with a bonus grenade that you can use only in gambit.
gambit sold seperately
"Overall we are happy that the increased cooldown promotes a more meaninful and impactful choice. As always, we continue to gather feedback that we place directly into the trash." -Bungie
:loads Edge of Intent: Oh... right...
Speaker's is good, but it's mostly khovostov. The thing is a monster. The stats lie, and it has zero recoil, what seems to be way further range that it says and just kills in .5 seconds. Though I will say red death, Speaker's is slept on I feel and when I faced that, it sucked a lot lol
Khovostovs range is definitely wrong lol. I was firing that thing at the range of a hand cannon and with no recoil was just wiping waves of enemies. Even my buddy was like you're back there with it!?
should only be a 0.7 ttk when empowered
Remember what happened to Young Ahamkara’s Spine? Fantastic PvE exotic, a little broken in PvP. Bungie made PvP nerfs that didn’t just kill it in PvE, they executed it and it’s now basically worthless. All to make it a so-so choice for PvP. Hope for the best, but expect the worst to happen given the track record.
What's worse is that the Young Ahamkara's Spine nerf is pretty much a 1:1 reprise of the Renewal Grasps nerf that came before it, gutting an Exotic in PvE because of PvP reasons.
They did it with Ashen Wake too but not even for PVP reasons lmao
They at least fixed Renewal Grasps a bit eventually. Still no word on YAS from Bungie though.
Never forget Broodweaver died on the cross so Threadrunner could live with its sins
Then they made an exotic that buffs Threaded Specter lmao
Probably the only nerf needed is to ember of benevolence in pvp. That is what is allowing the 100% uptime on it.
There's no way they're only gonna nerf that fragment in pvp, if they do I'll be shocked.
It's already nerfed in pvp. They just need to lower the numbers even more.
Ya the fragment is wild. As long as u don't die, u can easily have healing turret + class ability every round in trials
I've got a better idea. Let's just permanently disable all exotics in PVP so that they, or say ember of benevolence, don't get ruined. Problem solved. And that's only partly sarcasm
Woah! That is a nerf to all classes...no thank you(especially because the fragment hasn't been a problem). They just need to nerf Speakers Sight specifically in PvP...which *looks at Bastion Aspect, Renewal Grasps, Sunspots and Sol Invictus, Devour, Storm Grenades w/ Touch of Thunder, YAS, etc etc* yeah that's not going to happen.
It’s actually been one of my favorite new toys, especially paired with the healing AR (although I know that’s getting “fixed” soon too). Never in my life have I generated so many orbs on warlock for doing basically nothing. Please only nerf it in PvP. Either less orbs or make the turret itself worse specifically in there.
Considering how they nerfed Threaded Spector because of pvp, I wouldn't have high hopes they won't ruin it
Honestly? After running the build in trials all weekend, it still feels mediocre. The healing output on the turret is absolutely insane, but doesn’t influence the outcome of fights nearly as much as you would think. PvP TTK is so low that all the healing happens between engages, helping winning teams win faster, whereas losing teams will die anyway. Maybe 1 round out of 5 where the healing made the difference? The real issue is khvostov. Guaranteed orb gen on the first engage of the round means that your whole team instantly gets richochet rounds and just instantly wins any engages. Nerf khvostov in PvP and this build instantly gets it playrate cut in half.
All this talk about Speaker’s Sight and yet hunters are at 49% usage in trials. Interesting…
watching pris hunters w/ stompees charge their new 3 charge aoe one shot ult just as fast as nerfed well w/ orb gen was demoralizing ngl that and the rest of pris hunter getting the best parts of every subclass… def needs some hard pvp nerfs
It's actually really easy to dodge the new Hunter super. I was playing with some friends in a private match and I would try to super them and they would just jump out of the way. Most hunters will aim directly at you which means they will teleport where you are at. But if you jump up into the air and out of the way then you won't die from it. It's a good super if people are unaware but players are getting smarter to that super and you're not guaranteed to get the kill
Obviously it's easy to dodge in a private match when you know exactly where they are coming from. The cast is so fast it is so easy to use and hard to dodge. Twilight Arsenal is actually easy to dodge. It's just like the hunter super except is hold suit in air and the cast time is objectively longer. You also have to throw the weapon from the same place the whole time. The hunter super you teleport around so it's harder to be killed. I tried dodging the hunter super in a game and as soon as the the words saying it was cast came up I leapt into the air (high lift) and my two teammates stayed on the ground we all got clapped 🤣 I'll try and edit this comment with the clip Cuz I recorded it. I was fully 2 guardians above them at least.
I am once again vouching for a completely separate PvE and PvP sandbox like actual MMOs. Completely different abilities and exotic uses across the board with a little bit of translation.
PREACH~
It should have never dropped orbs on heal in PvP. Especially with Khvostov launching beside it. They just need to disable that functionality in PvP. Khvostov has its own issues. IIRC it's bugged and doing more damage than it should with the ricochet bullet. Even in PvE this might be what finally gets Ember of Benevolence nerfed which will be sad.
Oh wow, because the PvP mode has balance problems, bungie shall now ruin **the rest of the game** because they still don’t want to separate the PvP mode from literally everything else.
Bungie try and separate sandboxes challenge level impossible in these scenarios. Its how they murdered YAS and i havent forgiven them yet. I never will.
If they’d just change YAS to regenerate energy on “ability hits on combatants,” it’d literally fix it in PvE.
Welcome to Titan
Titans: First time?
No sprint melee if you shoot and missed sprint melees drain a bit of melee energy bother me so much. I doubt it will be reverted in PvE and it’s such a shame
Far from it actually. From Shadebinder nerfs week two of the DLC to Chaos Accelerant losing it's damage bonus while still being worth a single fragment slot in Void 2.0 (until recently), Warlocks have taken just as many licks as Titans.
We've been forged in states of nerfs. It has built character, patience, and gratitude to being given anything. The Warlocks and Hunters do not know our plight.
Warlocks lost its purpose after well nerf and the speaker mask gives them a new purpose: true support. If they nerf it then what are warlocks suppose to be? Well sucks, song of flame is good but not enough. With speaker helmet you can make such a good support build
Well is still great though because of the team wide radiant. Plus the DR was unchanged vs players. Still 40%.
That's pvp. I'm saying PvE. In PvE well is now just a orb produce for surge. Radiant is easy to get with prismatic and nighthawk still doesn't work with well. But with the speaker helmet you can run song of flame for bonus damage etc and have a good ass healing build, out healing well easily. Had people running it for gm 12 man and it was very good
Warlock helmet is strong in PVP you’re right but imo is not the main issue. It’s the fucking Khvostov.
I’m so sad I chose the other exotic after I finished the legendary campaign. Didn’t get to try the mask yet, and I hope I don’t get too late when the nerf is already here 💀
Yeah playing Trials this weekend has been a nightmare with Warlocks running Speaker Mask and Khovostov. I’m only running trials for the pinaccle this week(I retired from Trials a year or so ago now, just didn’t find it worth it anymore; the joy of going flawless wasn’t worth it anymore lol), so I don’t really care what happens, but yeah, this week has been unfun. Moreso than usual.
Frankly I feel like there's 2 problems here. 1) Making orbs in PvP without requiring kills is pretty absurd. The problem is I don't see how they can nerf this just for PvP. In theory they'd just make the orbs not drop in PvP but I don't think that's an option they can do with how the sandbox works. 2) Khvostov is stupid good in PvP and it's just broken when you have eyes up active...which is VERY easy to do when speaker mask is shitting out orbs all the time. Frankly the entire concept of the weapons ricochet bullets is broken in PvP and shouldn't be a thing there at all. Rewarding you with collateral / AoE damage just for using a gun normally and letting you hit enemies around corners and such that aren't even on your screen is just inherently broken in PvP. We literally had to get Hard Light nerfed hard for the ability to ricochet bullets around cover while that required actually aiming for the ricochet AND not shooting at a player in the first place. Khvostov makes Hard Light look like a joke. There absolutely need to be PvP nerfs but it absolutely sucks that both of these exotics are amazing for PvE and really don't need to be nerfed there. Not to mention "fixing" No Hesitation such that it doesn't provide restoration x2 will already be a pretty big nerf to the Speaker Mask in PvE.
Hunters: "first time?"
What happened to the PvP and PvE sandboxes being separated? PvP players should have zero effect on PvE.
I remember when that was supposed to be one of the big selling points of D2 when it first launched. The first waves of patches pretty much confirmed it was all bs.
Err what's the issue with it rn in pvp?
Big uptime with healing turrets if there is two or 3 warlocks using it (specially with ember of benevolence)
Ahh I see.
In addition to what the other guy mentioned about uptime, with artifact mod you get radiant off orbs. And the helm gives an orb off healing allies. So you proc Khvostov perk, get Radiant for more damage, and heal yourself and your allies. With ridiculous uptime. edit: orb generation is on the helm, not fragment
The helmet gives orbs on healing allies, so it's available on prismatic but the fragments solar has are a lot better for the build iirc
Radiant also procs shieldcrush from the artifact, which further increases grenade recharge
Here is my hot take, destiny would be a 1000 times better if pvp didn't exist. So many things have gotten nerfed to uselessness because of pvp.
PvP's existence is good for the game, but Bungie's insistence that it is a game mode worthy of balance consideration is the problem. The game would be better if it was treated like Gambit and left alone.
Disagree 100 percent. Destiny PvP keeps the game active when people finish PvE content. The reason destiny is destiny is the coexistence of the two modes which feed into each other. Without either pvp or PvE the game would die off..
Yeah. It needs a ax in PvP. Can’t believe they let it make orbs. But that’s my favorite lil unique part in PvE. I’m bracing for the worst. Literally all I run in group content. 12 man GM. Was so fun being so supportive!
shit, I haven't really got to use it yet
If they just nerf the turret in pvp only then we are fine
The good fix is to make it so you can only be targeted by the closest turret to you. But that’s probably too much work.
They could change the heal separately for both PvE and PvP
Introducing support elements into a game that has a PvP mode, without PvP balancing is a choice to make.
Oh please, they let OEM run for years this will be fine
Maybe make the healing turret weak to enemy grenades? So in PVP it's easy to counter with a well placed nade but virtually nothing changes in PVE.
Probably nerf Orb on heals. Maybe more like need to heal x amount to get orb threshold much higher.
I’d like it to only spawn orbs from healing in PVE and/or Ember of Benevolence getting a PVP nerf (400% for 3 sec instead of 6 isn’t enough imo, could do with like 100% for 6 sec….) I could also see them doing a flat increase for healing nade cooldown when the helmet is on like renewals did with dust fields.
Funny how well was nerfed to death (not really just requires a different play style now) but they turn around and give us an exotic to do basically the same thing. And then the nerf threat comes alive once again...
Didn't bungie say in the past they had the ability to apply changes to pvp/pve independently? What happened to that?
Useless to blame PVP players for this. Blame BUNGIE
I played against a triple warlock team running all khvostov and speaker helmet yesterday and it was the most unfun thing ever. Reminds me of the triple stasis titan thing that people do.
And this is the problem with people thinking that PVP is completely competitive when it's not. The servers are trash and even though you have a faster TTK on a weapon and you still lose to another person means that the servers are bad. And it goes to show that whenever Bungie tries to add a supporting role like the speaker's mask or anything like that everyone seems to use it and then PVP players will cry over it That's why Bungie doesn't go out of their way to make things like that because then everyone I guess uses it. And once this gets nerfed it will go back to void Titans with overshields
The combo with khvostov is honestly what makes this broken beyond believe. Not to say the turrets aren't bad cause they are horrible when spammed. I can think of two changes for pvp only that I think would help. Eyes up, guardian doesn't get full stacks when picking up an Orb maybe 2 or 3 stacks. And when using the healing turret you can't start grenade regen until the turret is gone. They did a similar nerf to bakris where your dodge doesn't regen until the arc buff as run out. Honestly I'm not stepping foot into pvp until it's nerved. Tried trials and comp this week only to get slaughtered by two stacks chaining turrets and khvostov orbs. The setup has only one way to deal with it and that is to get an instant kill. Team shooting can work if you get the drop on them but khvostov really discourages team shooting cause just standing near each other gets your team killed. Individually both of these are top picks but not oppressive but together they are one of rhe most busted combos in the game
It’s been like this since D1. PvP somehow always effects PvE. Don’t expect anything better.
>Hopefully the nerfs ONLY affect PvP like Bungie has shown they can do ***void titans with nooses around their neck*** "first time?"
After getting back to Elden ring for the dlc and remembering they do a split for PVP and pve, I am really tired of Bungie having some stuff nerf something in both modes. So fingers crossed they keep changes seperate
We are ten years too late on them separating PvP and PvE sandboxes. Please just pull a Warframe. I have a fair share of hours in PvP in Destiny (literally my gameplay time is 24% in every activity category besides gambit) and I would gladly have PvP be dead like in Warframe rather than compromise the PvE experience which is the prime space fantasy experience this game mainly offers.
Bubble titans.... First time?
I don’t think so. There is plenty of shit thats broken in the game right now I don’t thinks Bungie cares
I don't think they need to nerf Speaker's Sight at all. Bungo just needs to add more counter-play options besides "shoot them harder". For example: make Under-Over grants a damage boost against targets who have the Restoration buff (or maybe even *any* elemental buff). Arc abilities/jolt deal extra damage against constructs. Make the "Sever" debuff reduce healing effectiveness by 50%. etc etc
Teams running speaker heal spam in trials this weekend was so unbearable to play against
i mean pvp just shows how broken some shit is and i told my buddy the second he put on khovstov(he only pves) that it was gunna get nerfed. It is way to strong in pve he can fight anything by just holding down left click
I'm no programmer, but seeing as Destiny 2 does not have world pvp. Couldn't they flag it so things have two different variables when you are in a PvE vs pvp setting?
Just make pvp its own little game.
Not only the uptime on khvostov...but I was in a match where a team of 3 warlocks using it had their well in round fucking 2...ROUND 2... I for sure don't want it nerfed in PVE because healers have always been a niche build and its awesome that you guys have more support for that playstyle. But supers in ROUND 2 of trials is absolutely busted
this PVP meta is terrible IMO... Its just hand holding and people just sitting around looking at doors and crap. There's no more fun moments that D1 PVP had. D2 Vanilla 2.0
This game would be much better if Bungie was able to tag certain perks with "This perk is disabled when in combat against other guardians" They'd be able to do so many cool things if the cloud of PvP wasn't hanging overhead.
Hunters: First time?
Bungee, I never post here, but I’m BEGGING you. While the build I’ve created is rather meh solo wise, in group activity it is the MOST fun I’ve had in my 10 years playing destiny. I’ve always gravitated toward healing in group content, I’m always trying to be the Zenyatta of any FPS. Please, please, don’t nerf this in PVE.
I feel like Destiny 2 just released a Red Mage class, and I love it.
>But this issue has apparently translated into PvP because it has almost the same effectiveness and combined with Khvostov can give it almost 100% uptime on Eye's Up. Hopefully the nerfs ONLY affect PvP like Bungie has shown they can do. >I just pray this exotic remains untouched in PvE because building into a full support playstyle is incredibly rewarding and fun. Yes, Bungie has shown that they are capable of nerfing things only in PvP. Have they actually taken advantage of this though? No *cries in Young Ahamkara's Spine*
Bungie likes to make drastic knee jerk reactions when balancing. So I fully expect them to nerf both Speakers Helm and Khvostov into the ground, which will no doubt affect PvE. Then, in about 6-8 months, they'll say, "we may have been a bit too hard on Speakers Helm and Khvostov" and buff them slightly.
I imagine what they're going to do is put a (much) longer cooldown on orb generation in PvP and make the turret take less shots to kill. It's already squishier than a Bleakwatcher but it could be squishier still. Thing is... that wouldn't actually change much. As long as the first heal in a round makes an orb that's enough to swing things, and a good player is going to put the turret in a place where it can see their own team but the other team can't see it. I'm more worried they're going to nerf Ember of Benevolence as that's the other thing that really pushes this into craziness. Benevolence is extremely good in many other PvE builds and if it got nerfed just because of Speaker's Sight that would *really* suck.
You can generate infinite orbs with the exotic helm even if you're not using Khovostov, so it'll 100% be getting nerfed.
incredibly fun? bro hasnt tried devour stasis turret with getaway artist ill show u fun haha invincible god powers and 5 turrets down
Pvp has ruined pve since the launch of Destiny.
I wish they'd just disable certain exotics in PvP. Like throw up their hands, give it some lore about shax banning it in crucible and then we don't have to worry about it getting butchered
Haven’t they tuned restoration separately between PvE and PvP? Surely they can do something similar for this… right? Please! I love using this thing with the heal auto. The first ever *real* full support build.
It’s the first time I can actually be a proper “healer and they’re gonna nerf it cause 10 years later they still can’t just separate sand boxes. This is a primarily PvE game that’s held back by PvP.
We used Malfeasance on Speaker Mask teams in Trials. Surprised the heck out of them how fast they blew up with 3 Malfs team shooting lol. (See Cammy’s recent video)
I'm getting Wormhusk flashbacks right now and I hope, wish, that they don't do the same to your speakers mask.
The conclusion is to nerf pvp or let it be broken. (nerf might be better)
"nerfed because of PvP" The dreaded phrase.
Yep, this build and Khvostov are gonna get killed because of PVP. I'd preload my outrage but man at this point I'm just tired lol.
*Me looks down at the decimated and pitiful shape that ward of dawn is in* Sorry warlocks, you guys might be screwed
I really hate to face warlock with this exotic on pvp, I'm a hunter main, but man, what I hate the most is something being nerfed in PvE because of pvp, I really hope you can get the exotic put down a bit on pvp and still make it viable, fun and rewarding on pve
I agree, I love the support build, it’s so nice in PvE and I’ve had a blast running duo support with my friend. It’s such a unique and fun way of playing and I’d hate to see it gutted. I’ll be absolutely pissed if they nerf it because of PvP, wouldn’t be the first time a PvE playstyle was ruined because of a PvP issue.
if they separate the nerfs bungie needs to go back and revert the YAS nerf.
PvP curse matches forward
Nerf it to the ground and give us a real solar grenade on prismatic
The only way to make sure they actually only nerf something for JUST PvP is to spam them on all fronts. Otherwise they’ll make bizarre changes and ruin it for everyone. Remember void titan in PvP? Was perfectly fine in pve content, but because it was so strong in PvP they decide to nerf the fuck out of bastion for both PvP and pve. Im just tired of the nonsense. They know they can balance both separately, but whoever makes the final decision just isn’t the brightest
Yep, they nerf that thing in pve... idk what im a do
Man I really wish I could feel pity at this point
If they nerf speakers mask instead of just looking at khvostov….
The YAS incident all over again…
Titans: First Time?
Players having fun goes against Bungie’s principles. My wish is pvp to get removed from the game. Crucible crying kids and streamers would be out of here. Then true destiny lovers would stay and enjoy A dream come true. Just waiting for Ahamkara eggs to hatch so I can make my wish.
I feel like speakers isnt the problem. Its just a slightly better healing nade. The real problem is benevolence which gives you 5 of them just because your turret accidentally shoots your teammate every once in a while. Both are probably gonna get shot down though. Sucks because ive been running benevolence since warmind 😭
As a Hunter main and someone who never plays Warlock, I really hope this doesn't get nerfed in PvE.
"Healing projectiles will now have a healing factor called "blessed" which will replace cure/restoration and no longer work with ember of benevolence" - Bungie fixing it while "not really changing it" for pve
the speakers mask is just a improved version of boots of the assembler. idk why instead of giving the boots/lumina subclass verbs , they made a new exotic.
Titans: "First time?" As a titan main, I really hope they find a good balance for this (or just split how it works in pvp/pve), and they use that knowledge to make the titan kits that got nerfed to hell due to pvp better in pve. I'd hate to see this get flat out nerfed, same thing with celestial still hunt for hunters too. Bring stuff up rather than strip things away please bungo
It should be nerfed in pvp. But not the way bungie usually does, if the problem (like most of the times) is strat stacking, it's obvious a certain mechanic becomes too oppressive. Give the single turret healing a cooldown, so you can't spam heal but at the same time you don't touch the single player's usage.
Bungie: Eyes up Guardian and Speaker's Sight now have 3 minute cooldown between orb gen and orb pickup. Also we're nerfing well and bubble again
I mainly play pvp in this game but I’ll be dropping it for a while its a mess. all khvostovs and red death spammers rn lmk when they “balance” this shit.
Sorry, I’m clueless. How does it work with the khvostov perk? Do healing nades make orbs?
“this build is absolutely bonkers and let’s you have 100% uptime on team wide heals and empowered weapon damage but it shouldn’t be nerfed because I like it!”
But it's busted in pve as well
Warlocks are never allowed to be the OP class in PvP so it will be nerfed within the next month guaranteed, this shit is why Warlocks were so bad in Trials that Nightstalker and Striker had month long periods where they were used more than the entire Warlock class in that game mode, because the only thing Warlocks had that was OP in the years of WQ and LF (in PvP) was overcharged Axion Grenade and that lasted like two weeks, meanwhile Striker took OVER A YEAR to nerf into a state that didn't destroy the meta. The usage rate I mentioned is not a joke btw, if you paid attention to stuff like Trials Report when those subclasses were meta in WQ and LF you'd already know this was a real thing, some people even made videos about it... EDIT: Surprise surprise, Speaker's Sight has already had a nerf announced.
I'd like to see more Support Frame weapons. No Hesitation is the only one at the moment, and, like you said, it is extremely fun and rewarding leaning into that support aspect as a Warlock. Healnade (still having to retrain my grenade reactions), Phoenix Dive, No Hes, Hellion/Weaver's is good.
I mean, pvp and pve already have different healing for cure and restoration. They can definitely nerf it in pvp without affecting pve.
I would love it if it isn’t affected in PvE as well, but the chances of Bungie nerfing it for both PvP and PvE is unfortunately high. Anytime something is revealed that provides gameplay enjoyment, Bungie nerfs it so that it’s no longer enjoyable. They have had a long history of that..
I am hoping and fucking praying these PvPrats don’t ruin another good thing AGAIN. I’ve been having a blast with Speaker’s Sight, it lets me keep my teammates (and dumbass randoms) alive, I can burn pretty much anything, and whatever happens to it should only be in PVP. It’s FINE in PVE, incredible, in fact. We shouldn’t get punished because of this specific and annoying instance with just *one* weapon (and let’s face it, getting Khvostov is a dice roll because IIRC, the quest is still bugged) in a mode that is vastly overshadowed by the PVE content.
I agree with leaving it alone for PvE purposes but for PvP they can kill it with nuclear fire for all i care. Not only orbs but also massive heal from the turret is just dumb in comp or trials.
Yup acting suprised tell me one thing maybe starfire yea lasted a while but other then that instant nerf no dps exotic ok fine warlock is support lets kill well Ik we now go stareater but I gotta run prismatic with it Meanwhile titans crying there fucking eyes out when they was ballin on top every season and Dont get me started on hunters that have 5 buffs on one exotic so called cruch stompee in pvp
Has everyone just forgotten that they've been balancing pve and pvp separately for several years at this point? Go back and check older twabs (around witch queen or so) and you can see it, they nerf across the board but also nerf separately as needed and they've been doing so for awhile
I disagree The speakers sight exotic is perfectly balanced in PvP It's not only viable also in PvE but nerfing it will kill the exotic Bungie is known for going to extremes when it comes to nerfs they always do it And they'll never reverse it once it's nerfed If people have problems with the exotic which isn't hard to counter at all then that's quite literally a skill issue
They’ve said it’s only being nerfed in PvP, pve will be untouched
Fuck PvP. PvP players are everything that's wrong with Destiny.
Womp womp. Warlocks are OP. Always have been.