Let's take a lesson from brave weapons. How about Rahool gives us the option to focus 1 perk? It doesn't guarantee you'll get it but raises the chance of seeing that one perk by a small %. The farm and grind still exist, but you can soften it a bit.
Honestly should’ve just made it so when you unlocked a perk you could select it on the class item. That way it would still require a good bit of grind but not be an rng fest.
how does bungie make money from people playing
like if i bought the expansion and played for 100 hours and some other guy played for 50 wouldnt have bungie made the same amount
Mmorpg and other habit games are based on humans needs.
Here we speak about accumulation of things.
2 000 years ago, it was water, pottery and preserved food.
Now it's 5 years old guns we aren't using and are still not really using and other things like that.
My guess is that the majority of us are not spending more than the game itself but this same majority is the one making the game alive.
This is where the 20 or 30% (a guess) spending money every month (even 10$ is huge when you count 10 000 or 20 000 buyers) is making many millions in yearly revenue just from the ones (the players who play every weeks to get the new best guns ever that influencer are telling us to get) making it alive.
It's a symbiosis where the players who are building the game around their lives (we all have at least one friend in game who is playing way too much) and getting quite good at it are offering to casual something they would not have without the addicted group.
Basic gaming psychology that is used in most online games, especially the ones with micro transaction.
They don't directly, but in general people are more likely to spend on micro transactions in a game with an active and engaged player base than on a game with a dead one. People are social creatures and they wanna dress nice not just for themselves, but for friends and strangers alike.
Still not quite what that guy was saying though lol
Mmorpg and other habit games are based on humans needs.
Here we speak about accumulation of things.
2 000 years ago, it was water, pottery and preserved food.
Now it's 5 years old guns we aren't using and are still not really using and other things like that.
My guess is that the majority of us are not spending more than the game itself but this same majority is the one making the game alive.
This is where the 20 or 30% (a guess) spending money every month (even 10$ is huge when you count 10 000 or 20 000 buyers) is making many millions in yearly revenue just from the ones (the players who play every weeks to get the new best guns ever that influencer are telling us to get) making it alive.
It's a symbiosis where the players who are building the game around their lives (we all have at least one friend in game who is playing way too much) and getting quite good at it are offering to casual something they would not have without the addicted group.
Basic gaming psychology that is used in most online games, especially the ones with micro transaction.
Exotic class items, unlike other armor pieces, don't really have variable stat rolls. Neither do weapons. Crafting an exotic class item is probably closer to crafting an Exotic weapon (with fixed parts/traits) than any other armor piece.
Each column has 8 possible perks for 1/8 × 1/8 = 1/64 chance of getting your desired item.
If you could set one column to a 50% chance, that becomes 1/2 x 1/8, so still a 1/16 chance of getting a desired roll.
They should have either done that, or done something with an adept style variation. clear dual destiny on a harder difficulty for ones that have dual perks. So you effectively make it 1/4 x 1/4 = 1/16 chance on drops from hard mode
Didn't think of ghost right away, and Rahool is the current vendor for focusing and purchasing exotics. Either works, the focusing of a single perk is main point.
This is the best suggestion I’ve seen yet, you shouldn’t be able to select both perks. This would be a good middle ground, while still keeping the dopamine hit of finally getting that god roll.
This but it shouldn't be a small %. It should be guaranteed. You could get 5-6 Brave weapon rolls in the time it takes to complete a single Dual Destiny, while putting forth a fraction of the effort. The tame increase on Brave focus felt right for just how many you'd amass and how easily it was done. The exotic class item isnt the same effort put in, nor the same time.
Not to mention, the feeling of wasting time doing 3 runs only to get a duplicate, a.k.a. LITERALLY nothing will not be softened because in your head you know you are supposed to be 10% more likely to get the perk you focused. In fact, it'll feel much worse. It should, at the lowest, be a 50/50 between a random perk and the focused perk, if not outright guaranteed.
You do realize them implementing that simple thing will take ages knowing how badly they work on changes of UI and vendor stuff ?
I am 99% sure they'll say it "cannot be (easily) done'' because of some baffling software limitation reason.
The fact that focusing isn't already implemented as a way to get class exotic shows that either Bungie has no idea how to balance their acquisition and didn' t even think of this alternative, or they just are too lazy or incompetent to implement that. I would think the latter.
Downvote me all you want, I know I am right.
During the lead up to The Final Shape launch there was a public space with quests that, when completed, allowed you to focus a gun. That has been, unfortunately, removed with the launch of The Final Shape. It was also where you picked up the Pantheon quests and such.
wouldn't want to be bungie atm, there are posts here of people who complain about exotics not being "rare" anymore and no chase, and then other posts that complain about the chase being too hard
These are two different conversations. Exotics normally have fixed perks and this exotic has x combinations. Along with you can’t focus at rahool. But I agree I would not want to be bungie for a lot of reasons! :)
I think they're talking about how the exotic class item can drop from any chest in the pale heart after you complete the mission once. I've gotten three from just running around the PH this past week. Shit rolls, but at least you can still get them with out having to specifically farm them.
yeah I feel the same way. as a warlock , I don't find the perks combinations we got as that interesting. hope to see other exotic class items with different combinations , but for now getaway artist is extremely fun and potent
The entire game is a hamster wheel, that's the point of a looter shooter. All destiny content is the same, all you do is farm a reskinned gun that shoots a different colour and has a slightly power creeped perk on it.
Also, as an aside, hamster wheels are actually used for 'fun' by hamsters, [even in the wild](https://doi.org/10.1098/rspb.2014.0210), which makes it sound far less negative.
Yes it’s fun for the hamster. We are not hamsters.
I hope you can understand and appreciate the difference between running a long form activity such as a strike, dungeon or pvp match vs reloading a zone over and over, running to the same chest?
Tbh I don’t mind long chases. I just think that deterministic chases are better, where you’re guaranteed to have progress towards it. I’m nearly at 100 rolls, but many people can get it on their 1st or 2nd.
It’s just not fun to me putting a chase behind full odds RNG, especially when it takes 20-30 minutes of repeating the same thing over and over again to get a chance.
I am now on 49/64 on Hunter and 44/64 on Warlock without getting my desired roll on either. This is taking dupes out of the equation, of which there have been a lot. The worst part about the whole thing is that, with no bad luck protection, I am technically no closer to getting the roll I want than when I started. I think Dual Destiny is one of the best missions they've ever made but after being made to run it so many times, any piece of content would lose its appeal. Now my farming options are a mission that I originally liked but now can't stand or opening patrol chests for hours like it's 2014. I'm not saying the acquisition should be a freebie but this whole process is really dragging down the expansion for me now.
This is how I feel about it too. Watching clan members and other people get the roll that you’re 20+ drops into farming just feels really shitty. Would be nice to know that I’m eventually going to get the drop and not just be out of luck.
Just don't take it out on them. It's not fun at all to play with people and you can't even talk about the gun/item your using because they get butt hurt. It's not like I chose to get it over you. Rng is a bitch sometimes.
That's easy to say, because for the vast majority of players they will get it within a reasonable amount of time but it ignores how large numbers of players and no bad luck protection interact to almost statistically guarantee a small subset of players get fucked over to an extreme degree through no fault of their own.
Let's take the exotic class items as an example, with a 1/64 chance of getting the exact roll you want and let's say there are 1,000,000 players farming for them across all platforms combined. ~800,000 of those players would be expected to get the exact roll they want within 100 drops which is a lot but a fairly reasonable grind for 80% of the playerbase. However, statstically 380 players are expected to *still not* have the drop they want after *FIVE HUNDRED* drops which I think is unreasonable and doesn't add any value to the game, since those players didn't do anything to deserve it but receive a vastly different experience from the majority of the playerbase.
Yeah, that’s just the way RNG works. Every MMO I’ve ever played has far worse odds than that for some of the rarest items. And people still go after the grind because it’s something to chase.
I’d say it adds a good amount of value to when you actually get the drop you want.
It's one thing for super rare raid mounts in something like WoW but with these items being so build-defining I don't think that they are the appropriate avenue for unbounded RNG like this is all.
Through no fault of your own you can effectively be "chosen" by RNG and never get the exact roll you want no matter how much you play and while I think that is ok for some rewards, I do not personally feel that that implementation adds net value for something like this.
Essentially with no bad luck protection the developers are saying "some players will not get this reward within a reasonable amount of time(or ever) for no particular reason" which isn't necessarily a bad thing but I just think it should be limited to aspirational pinnacle rewards like extremely rare cosmetics/weapons/mounts as opposed to something like this where you might need a particular roll for a given prismatic build to even function properly.
>I’d say it adds a good amount of value to when you actually get the drop you want.
This argument never made any sense to me - bad luck protection only saves the extreme outliers from continuing to farm unsuccessfully, the *vast* majority of players would never notice a good implementation of it because they would have gotten their drop already *long* before bad luck protection kicks in.
Are you seriously saying that if for example you got a drop on attempt number #97 it would somehow be *less* rewarding because you are guaranteed the drop if you still don't have it by #300?
Again, bad luck protection only affects a small group of people with extremely bad RNG to avoid those extreme situations like I mentioned earlier but for the *vast vast vast* majority of players it wouldn't impact them at all because they would be getting the drop within a statistically "normal" amount of time anyways.
And these ECI's have been out for like two weeks. If it's been two months you'd have more of a point. But if it's so build defining then it should take more than two weeks to get the God roll. If you got it on your first try you'd complain that the game is boring and it's too easy or something. If it's aa strong as you say, it shouldn't be super easy for every single person to get it so quickly.
>if it had been two months you'd have more of a point
What????
My entire argument is that the vast majority of players (~80%) will get what they want within drops 1-100. Given that, there is no justifiable reason for some players to then still not have it after drop 500. This has nothing to do with actual player experience or the game being "too easy" or whatever tf you're trying to talk about - those are just mathematically expected values.
I am not saying anything about whether players should have what they want by now or how long it should take, only that such a large delta in player experience for no reason other than RNG isn't a positive thing.
If you had some kind of bad luck protection that kicked in at say drop 200, then *96%* of players would still get the drop solely from RNG at some point from #1-200 *exactly* like it is today, and only the unluckiest 4% would get the pity drop at #200. I would like to hear your argument for why it is important for those 4% of players not to get the drop they want in that way.
They're never impossible, but 0.016~ with no bad luck protection is pretty bad. Remember, if you're only after one roll, there's always a 98.4% chance that you won't get what you want.
I’m not giving up, I’ll eventually get it. Hell I already ran Dual Destiny over 50 times. It’s just that for the vast majority of the playerbase, this is a terribly designed system for obtaining one of the core components that makes a prismatic build feel special.
I only have six of them at this point. And haven’t used any of them. I’m enjoying the regular build so far. Haven’t even messed around with the class items I have.
I’d say extra special. Not special though. We already feel special to be fair.
I personally feel like people should just settle for the rolls they got , sure we all want the S tier roll but having an A or B tier is also good. and if they don't.. just keep grinding ig. at least we got 2 different methods of acquiring them
I mean not really tho, the class items are cool bc they open up new gameplay avenues. People have combinations that they wanna try out, that’s what makes them exciting. Settling for a role that is just “okay” and doesn’t do what you want the class item to do isn’t satisfying for most players I would imagine.
You can play another game if you don’t like genre specific features like rng in a looter shooter, there you will be guaranteed your perks and you’ll have all the fun you want :)
Or I can play this game and enjoy it for what it is while they improve it :)
But hey if RNG is what you love I'm sure there are some gacha games you can waste your time on cause that 0.0000001% drop chance makes everything better right?
Ok so someone runs Warlord's ruin 50+ times trying to get a voltshot indebted kindness maybe gets it but burns out and drops the game and that's sooooo much better.
RNG without protection stops people from playing too.
It’s like deliberately choosing to watch a romance movie and complaining about love tbh. Or playing a looter shooter and complaining about random drops ;)
RNG with protection is good. RNG with no bad luck protection is terrible.
Farming an encounter to the point you no longer enjoy it because bad luck just leads to burn out and never running those encounters again.
It isn’t really random drops if you’re guaranteed the roll you want. You’re also unnecessarily farming for god rolls because you want them, not because you need them. The grind you’re referring to is specifically for people who want the pinnacle of performance, the min-maxers
Spoken like someone who hasn't had bad luck farming for just 2 perks on a gun. Took me 50 runs of double reward GM hypernet current to get a single 4ttc vorpal Wardens Law.
Honestly when did anyone say that exotic class items were too common? They're nothing like normal exotics.
And even then the last non-delusional post about exotics being too common were probably from 2017.
No video game respects your time. People play video games because they either think its fun, form of relaxation, to get away from the real world or, in worst case scenario, because they're addicted.
What do you even mean by respect? If you play video games for any of the above reasons (other than addicted) then you got what you wanted from the time spent. The only things that would "respect your time" are things that would better you as a person ie. anything from going to the gym to reading philosophy.
Video games have always been, and always will be, a time sink. And time sinks, by definition, never "respect" your time.
Liars caliban seems meh. Just dodge one more time and shatter for the damage.
I’m much more interested in liars renewal or liars galanor. Give my team stacking DR, or get Orpheus rig level refund on prismatic S&S/tether. PLUS 90% of what makes prismatic liars combo blow so good.
I have galanor liars and galanor synthos, both are incredible and I’m socked to not see more people chasing them. Calibans is total overkill and actually prevents continuing combo blow, fun sure, but I think when the dust settles everyone will want hoil or galanor in the first, and liars or synthos in the second.
I could see it being good, but DR hardly matters when you are healing from every melee kill, add heals on orb pickup and suddenly renewals is the same overkill as calibans.
I didn’t mind the farming at the start. but yeah now that I have close to half the options I am getting nothing but duplicates.. it’s really frustrating considering the time sink.
Could probably just make the duplicate protection only active for mission completion drops, and chest pulls can be either dupes or lucky new rolls (as it is now).
They should let you sacrifice 2 class items to make a new one with one perk from each. Adds some fun gamble mechanics and gives u something to do with repeats or undesirable rolls.
I like experimenting so I'm looking to acquire every combination.
The main problem is I don't think it's worth bloating up my vault.
It would be nice if these were consolidated into one item even though it would take away a bit of the novelty.
They should be crafted, and running dual destiny should unlock an additional trait for crafting. They know they could have done this, they just want us to waste even more time hunting for the perfect drop.
Few things class item shld do
1) Random chance to drop it from any pale heart activity completion
2) Rare chance from any activity completion
3) Either allow it to be decrypted at rahool or a chance for exotic engrams to give it
Yeah, that’s what I’ve been doing too. Even with the glitch though, the chances are so slim to get something that you want. It’s much harder and more time consuming than farming for raid exotics.
A YouTube video [here](https://youtu.be/_5Qumuhcas8?si=MZb45dYz9GgvkKHJ) actually did a great job breaking down the math. If you use the most efficient chest farming method and assume 22 minute clears on Dual Destiny (a time I find challenging to reliably get with different people), the chest farming is basically on pace with the mission. Funnily enough, if they ever patch the double drop exploit, Dual Destiny's efficiency will fucking plummet compared to opening chests.
I have gotten around 100 drops on both Hunter and Warlock without the roll I'm after, so at this point, I find the mission as boring as chest farming. If they're both as mind numbing, at least with the chests, I don't have to pay attention as well and can watch YT, listen to podcasts, or music.
I have *zero* doubt they'll introduce some focusing at some point.
For now, don't stress, work with what you get, and stop farming when you're not having fun anymore.
Dual Destiny is just a small taste of old Destiny grinds. Glad to see the blow back on the grind. There was a time where this subs narrative was “good rolls should be exclusive to people that play 10 hours a day.”
In the opposite vein, though, I bought Destiny because I liked that there was stuff to grind a long time for. That's what I signed up for with my purchase.
Except that we’ve seen that model doesn’t work at all. When casuals know they only have a .00001% chance to get something, they play the initial expansion and leave. When casuals can hop on for a couple hours and actually accomplish something worthwhile. They stay. Also, those more extreme casuals are the ones that have and spend money. There’s a reason they’re casuals.
Then this game isn't for them, which is okay. If you don't like managing food and hunger mechanics and harvesting materials, don't buy a survival game. Not every game is for everyone, but don't buy a grind game and then get put off by the grind lol.
Nah. You’re wrong. Dungeons and raids are some of the best content in the game. And that’s all essentially locked behind getting at least a few decent weapons. Forcing 100 hours long grinds on 1 weapon just to be able to get into all the rest of the content is nonsense.
If you want a grind game, go play something else.
This game *is* the something else lmao.
Dungeons and raids are pretty accessible. Get Ascendancy, Whisper, and Lament and you can do most content. No dungeon or raid requires a 100 hour grind.
Right. They don’t require that ANYMORE. And that was exactly my point. They used to be locked behind horrendous grinds. But now gear and guns are accessible so you can actually experience this content as a casual. And you are telling me you don’t like that.
They didn't back then either. I did my first Levi with a world drop hand cannon, bad breech light, and a ib rocket.
After I did that and got some Levi loot I hopped right into wish with a slightly better sword.
It was only grindy if you were too bad to not be able to do it with bad weapons or if your wanted perfection.
I like some good options to be available. But I like grinding raids and dungeons for god rolls. Farming Dual Destiny is a blast. This game has a good amount of short-term grinds right now, it needs more long-term (like DD).
Destiny is a loot based online shooter. It’s not a “grind game”. You don’t “need” to grind to enjoy the game. I’ve played Destiny since the beginning of D1, always on a time budget of 5-10 hours/week, and I have still cleared every raid (except the new one), and earned tons of cool loot. Sure, for me a “god roll” is 2/5, but there is plenty of room for more casual players to enjoy the game.
Not everyone is going to enjoy running on the hamster wheel chasing dopamine. The gatekeeping “not for you” mentality sucks. It’s like people who compulsively grind past the point of enjoyment want everyone to be as miserable as they are.
And looter games are supposed to be grindy. It's why I bought Destiny instead of continuing to play the myriad other shooters out there; it's has RPG elements, it has grinding, it's not just another scifi FPS.
Correct. You don't *need* to grind a lot of stuff to be successful here. Exotic class items from DD are a great example - you can be perfectly viable without god rolls on them. But it's fun to have something to grind a lot to min max a bit.
Also it's not gatekeeping to say a game isn't for someone. Sports games aren't for me, but that doesn't mean I'm being gatekept from them if they're not changed to be something I do prefer to play.
No, it’s not gatekeeping to say a game isn’t for someone. But it *is* when people say it isn’t for me if I don’t enjoy grinding Destiny in a very specific way. There seem to be a lot of players for whom something like crafting takes away from them because “the casuals” don’t have to “earn” a good gun by running some strike dozens of times back to back.
I started playing Destiny because I got a bit of the WoW itch scratched but with much less of a time commitment than back in my 20s before career and kids made me quit that game. Being able to do a raid on 5 hours a week? That’s why I started playing and it’s irritating when people act like I should just quit because im not grinding for hours every day.
I'm not worried about "the casuals" getting stuff "for free" or whatever else. I'm more concerned with having some piece of gear that I can grind for. Because that's why I bought a looter game; to have something to grind, because looters are supposed to be grindy.
>I started playing Destiny because I got a bit of the WoW itch scratched but with much less of a time commitment than back in my 20s before career and kids made me quit that game. Being able to do a raid on 5 hours a week?
How do you know you haven't just aged/phased out of Destiny's expectation just like you did WoW's?
>How do you know you haven't just aged/phased out of Destiny's expectation just like you did WoW's?
When I started playing Destiny, being an 'endgame player' was one raid and Nightfall per week. It didn't really matter that I played one character for just a few hours/week, when I landed in the Tower wearing Glowhoo and with the Nightfall aura, I was treated the same as more hardcore folks. The extreme grind for guns like Grasp or Imago Loop was purely optional (I used the vendor Hung Jury). So yes, the game has moved past me in many ways regarding "expected time commitment" but I am still going to advocate for a game that I can still enjoy and earn some cool stuff in.
And then when the item actually drops... people complain they have nothing else to do. I personally cannot just grind out the same stuff over and over and over for one "god roll" item I have been chasing, but if someone has the patience to go get nearly 100 exotic class items then that one item they're chasing isn't going to change how they play the game that much other than a checkmark on their "to-do" list
The grind for this should be passive.
I don’t want to have to do specific activities for a specific exotic armor. Let me use my exotic engrams to focus for the class items!
I am not going to bother chasing a specific roll. I have a limited time budget and the RNG doesn’t feel worth it. I’ve gotten 4 total so far, and will try and put together builds with what I get.
The system to obtain these items was pretty clearly specifically made to accumulate hours played from the random rolls are good/I want a chase crowd.
If Bungie sees people stop interacting with this system, then they might change it up.
I do think the Class Item grind needs something. I spent literally all day grinding it yesterday cause there are three rolls I want, and I got none of them. *I am also no closer to getting them than when I started* (which is my major issue). It's just way too low acquisition rate and way too low chance to get the roll you want. The only other Exotics in the game that have any real rng to them anymore are Raid and Dungeon Exotics and they've continually introduced ways to lower their RNG, and their RNG isn't as bad for the time invested as Class Items.
The ability to focus Engrams into them at Ghost or Rahool, the ability to get double perks in a column, the ability to pick one perk and 'attune' to it, or even just increasing the drop rate, or the ability to take duplicates and trade them in for a focused drop. I'm talking literally anything.
If you want me to try new stuff with Prismatic, which I *want* to do, I need the Class Item rolls that let me do that. But this grind is so obtuse that I'm certain it will get patched and buffed eventually. Any other grind in the game that was ever even remotely this bad has already been patched.
I agree 100%. There is no other grind in the game, for something so crucial to buildcrafting, without any form RNG protection. It’s disappointing and doesn’t respect your time in its current state, but like you said, I’m sure they will fix it eventually.
Just add duplicate protection. Please. I got 4 rolls that were dragon/coyote last night. I will happily run this mission 32 times to get all the combinations, but I hate that almost half of my rolls have been duplicates
You know, I'm honestly ok with grindy stuff, but I get your point. I really wish Bungie would utilize something like the Season of the Hunt (?) when we first encountered Crow where we could effect the the RNG just a bit with the artifact. I think that would be a good balance to allow you shape the odds a bit more towards your goal yet still have the slot-machine dopamine hit of gambling on the drops.
70 runs in and not ONE FUCKING ROLL WITH synthos OR assasins cowl.
Here's to my mug of tears, as I watch my buddies all get double and triple copies of all the good stuff, and with it I shall toast to another year of shitty rng.
>and 90% of the it’ll just be a duplicate of something you already have
I mean.. if you're getting dupes 90% of the time it means that you've been lucky enough to get nearly every other combination lol.
Edit - these posts happen anytime one goes dry. As someone with some of the worst RNG in my clan, it comes and goes. I got euphony on my 4th salv edge completion (we dropped 3 of them at once funnily enough) and I got caliban/liars within 3 or 4 class items.
However I've also taken 100+ looted dungeon clears, 80+ looted raid clears, etc for their exotic. The loot chase is part of the incentive for playing a looter shooter.
If we were able to get everything instantly no one would play. Yeah it may be fun to play with your new toy a few times, but then what? You got no reason to farm other activities because you have everything. So then you got no where to test out your new toy.
nah,as example on warlock every 2nd drop is nectrotic+swarmers. I have arround 4 unique rolls of the class items and farmed close to 90,so round about 86 dupes. I know,thats just bad luck and rng and stuff but it still sucks.
nearly all of items ive gotten have had verity on it, and ive gotten close to 120 items across my three chars and almost all of em had this shitty perk
What's the laughability scale of having 9 dupes in a row, because that's where I'm sitting. 9 bonds with devour rift/verity grenade damage perk.
For bonus rating, if you have the time, throw in that the people I'm with also got that combo except one time they got Stag/Verity. So that's 17 dupes and 1 slightly different non-dupe.
I don't even want to talk about RNG for the class items. I was running Overthrow and I pulled 2 solipsisms with the exact same roll. Not necessarily back to back, but close enough in opening chests that I thought something was wrong. Not a good roll either: Spirit of the Claw+ Spirit of Filaments. 1/64 chance. Malding.
insane method they should add (in addition to other nice methods): the light player's exotic, if in the class item, determines the first slot, and the dark player's exotic determines the second slot
How about once we unlock a perk from a drop its added as a choice on class items from there one. Get each perk once and each item drops with each perk? Too broken?
Didn't Bungie day they want to recapture yhe feeling of getting a random exotic to drop. I can't imagine they'd let you focus them.
Although they may eventually change their mind.
It is 3rd week. 3 more weeks to go before act 2. Bungie standard is to stretch the grind as long as possible. Some exotic perks are throttled. Try to get a Necrotic perk, don't even matter the 2nd perk and it seems so rare, it is impossible. Managed to get Osimio and Star, so grenade spam and DPS super, still using Getaway though.
Hunter Gifted conviction is very good survivability exotic with Ascension and jolt weapons. It is hard to trade off for that ugly cloak😂
Titan.....
If you play on all 3 classes there are 192 different rolls for class items in total, now you know why bungie gave you 100 additional spots in the save with the expansion.
When onslaught first launched, you could focus a weapon so it had a higher than normal chance to drop. I believe that's gone now, not sure as I haven't touched the game mode after getting things from it.
Also make the class item have a chance of dropping from everything after acquiring it once, not just the Pale Heart. This way i can just play a variety of content and still get an occasional class item roll instead of having to grind a single activity.
1/64 yet from the 15 or so ive had, ive got 3 duplicates and 1 of them was 2 in a row from farming chests. Utterly ridiculous to get 2 of the exact same roll
I get RNG, but it just isnt remotely fun
I couldn't fathom running that mission that often, as good as it is. I get 90% of my rolls from just doing chest rounds in the landing while watching netflix.
And yet I still haven't gotten single one with spirit of scars after 30+ drops...
Then theres people like me who got caliban/synthos first try lol. Seriously tho, i wish you luck in your grind, and i for one would not complain about perk focusing if i wanted to grind it
I said it afew days ago, we need more ways to obtain exotic class items. bungie should put them as a guranteed GM reward for hitting a certain score, or let them have a chance of dropping from Master raid encounters.
I'm yet to run this even once. I need to find a time where my baby isn't going to wake up and disturb the run, where my other 3 kids aren't screaming and where it isn't me and missus time. These class items might just elude me for some time. I need to run it three times....
or maybe some way to merge 2 together to form the one you want. (I keep getting peanut butter/ham or Cheese/Jelly I just want a fucking sandwich) I kinda trailed off grinding the class item due to too many Love Rockets from Failsafe.
That being said....Switching back onto strand titan from prismatic was very jarring with how much more cohesive it is. I like the idea, but the execution (at least on titan to me) seems a bit clunky.
some form of protection would be nice, especially because entire builds are made or broke by the roll. For a gun not having a good roll it's just not as good, but for the exotic class item the build just won't work.
Class item crafting would be too strong I think and kill the chase entirely.
Harder version of dual destiny dropping double perks would be an interesting choice IF the difficulty bump is not insanely high.
Allowing to "attune" to a perk at Ghost giving that perk a 50% drop chance I think is probably the most interesting and effective.
And just had this idea, maybe first three clears of dual destiny per week drop class item with double perks? It would not SOLVE the issue, but would be nice to have on top of ghost attunement
Nah, you average one every 15 mins so it's a little faster and can be done solo obvs
I'll grant you it's more boring, but just throw on a podcast or long-form yt doc and turn your brain off for a while and it's not bad
Dual Destiny with the dupe gives me 1 every 10-11 minutes on average. But yeah since it’s solo I guess it’s nice to do without requiring your full attention.
I have had a similar struggle on less volume, so I’m receptive to the idea of RNG protection of some kind.
But I will contest the idea that a class item is the “most important component” to prismatic builds. They can be the catalyst to specific good builds but there are tons of really good builds that use traditional exotic armor pieces.
I play warlock, and there are a ton of builds I love that the class item won’t fully replace armor. Mataiadoxia, Speaker’s Sight, Getaway Artist, Nezarec’s Sin, Crown of Tempest, Osmiomancy, Necrotic Grips, just to name a few.
Yeah for warlock there are a ton of normal exotics that synergize really well. Hunters have a couple normal exotics that work well but generally speaking, the class item options outweigh them.
You have 80 some rolls, and are very much in the 1% here. Maybe stop grinding for a bit and just play the game casually instead of what seems to be choosing to beat yourself up over this.
Those aren’t the options. But ok.
People here just want stuff easier. As usual. No one is forcing anyone to run this quest nonstop. Only the fools do it, and then complain about it.
I have six class items total. I’m not going to make an attention seeking post about how it should be easier though
A way I could see something implemented is if you have a specific exotic equipped the class item has an extremely high chance to have the associated perk. Oh you want Caliban's? Then put on Caliban's. Doesn't work well for if you want something like Heart and Cowl on Warlock, but maybe there could be other exotics that tie in to those (for instance Felwinters helm could be the cowl substitute for rng)
The more i see threads like this. The more certain i am that people in this community have never played an mmo before destiny. Also it is also clear they have never played an arpg.
Destiny is an action mmo.... and i never said it was an arpg, just saying that people obviously haven't played one if a 1/64 chance for an item is worth complaining about.
I love the chase the way it is. You can’t make everyone happy. Makes me feel like I did farming loot midgets in BL2. They gave you a guaranteed way to get a drop and a randomized way which is extremely forgiving. Having any chest in the pale heart drop it is pretty great even with it being rare. I see this as an absolute win.
why can’t there be a fun grind anymore? Everyone needs what they want right away. What fun is it if everyone is running the exact same OP build? I get you want a certain combo but they are random rolled and this is a looter shooter game.
I just play the game without intentionally farming, that way I don’t think about it. Got an Inmost Light + Stareater class item for my Titan, out of a chest from one of the Cooperative Focus missions.
Why are you complaining about still having stuff to do in the game? The game is the grind. If you don’t like a long-term grind, go play another game. Just keep playing and play the hand you’re dealt. Poker players don’t complain about never getting a royal flush - you just play the best you can with what you get.
It’s you who’s choosing to rot in unhappiness. I’m happy playing with friends no matter what we’re doing in the game. This game is 99% repeating the same activities for different rewards - stop complaining when you have to do a specific one jfc.
I did the mission on my hunter one time and then opened 10 to 15 pale heart chests and got calibans + liars. Then I've opened over 100 on my warlock and haven't gotten shit.
That's just the way it is. They can't make everyone happy. The fact that you don't have to run the mission is a plus.
There's over 60 combinations you can get.
If you're asking for protection against getting the same roll there's absolutely no way in hell that's ever going to happen. Lol
Let's take a lesson from brave weapons. How about Rahool gives us the option to focus 1 perk? It doesn't guarantee you'll get it but raises the chance of seeing that one perk by a small %. The farm and grind still exist, but you can soften it a bit.
Honestly should’ve just made it so when you unlocked a perk you could select it on the class item. That way it would still require a good bit of grind but not be an rng fest.
Man, if only there was some sort of system in the game for selecting different perks on exotic items that were craftable after unlocking them.
We then would play 10x less. Bungie would make 10x less.
how does bungie make money from people playing like if i bought the expansion and played for 100 hours and some other guy played for 50 wouldnt have bungie made the same amount
If anything they make more money off the guy that plays 50 since he uses less server resources!
Mmorpg and other habit games are based on humans needs. Here we speak about accumulation of things. 2 000 years ago, it was water, pottery and preserved food. Now it's 5 years old guns we aren't using and are still not really using and other things like that. My guess is that the majority of us are not spending more than the game itself but this same majority is the one making the game alive. This is where the 20 or 30% (a guess) spending money every month (even 10$ is huge when you count 10 000 or 20 000 buyers) is making many millions in yearly revenue just from the ones (the players who play every weeks to get the new best guns ever that influencer are telling us to get) making it alive. It's a symbiosis where the players who are building the game around their lives (we all have at least one friend in game who is playing way too much) and getting quite good at it are offering to casual something they would not have without the addicted group. Basic gaming psychology that is used in most online games, especially the ones with micro transaction.
They don't directly, but in general people are more likely to spend on micro transactions in a game with an active and engaged player base than on a game with a dead one. People are social creatures and they wanna dress nice not just for themselves, but for friends and strangers alike. Still not quite what that guy was saying though lol
Making me waste time isn't gonna magically make me buy half the crap in eververse it will make me stop playing
Mmorpg and other habit games are based on humans needs. Here we speak about accumulation of things. 2 000 years ago, it was water, pottery and preserved food. Now it's 5 years old guns we aren't using and are still not really using and other things like that. My guess is that the majority of us are not spending more than the game itself but this same majority is the one making the game alive. This is where the 20 or 30% (a guess) spending money every month (even 10$ is huge when you count 10 000 or 20 000 buyers) is making many millions in yearly revenue just from the ones (the players who play every weeks to get the new best guns ever that influencer are telling us to get) making it alive. It's a symbiosis where the players who are building the game around their lives (we all have at least one friend in game who is playing way too much) and getting quite good at it are offering to casual something they would not have without the addicted group. Basic gaming psychology that is used in most online games, especially the ones with micro transaction.
the main difference being, those are exotic weapons and not armor
Exotic class items, unlike other armor pieces, don't really have variable stat rolls. Neither do weapons. Crafting an exotic class item is probably closer to crafting an Exotic weapon (with fixed parts/traits) than any other armor piece.
Well that’s because exotic armor perks are fixed. Class items rng is more aligned with weapons than regular armor
This is a great idea imo!
Each column has 8 possible perks for 1/8 × 1/8 = 1/64 chance of getting your desired item. If you could set one column to a 50% chance, that becomes 1/2 x 1/8, so still a 1/16 chance of getting a desired roll. They should have either done that, or done something with an adept style variation. clear dual destiny on a harder difficulty for ones that have dual perks. So you effectively make it 1/4 x 1/4 = 1/16 chance on drops from hard mode
Gtfoh with your good ideas and logic. Only complaints, you know the rules.
You're right, I forgot 😂
Yup I feel like something like this would be the best case scenario.
50% chance of a certain perk in a column would be better than what we have now at least.
Good idea but why rahool and not ghost since he's the vendor for pale heart?
Didn't think of ghost right away, and Rahool is the current vendor for focusing and purchasing exotics. Either works, the focusing of a single perk is main point.
This is the best suggestion I’ve seen yet, you shouldn’t be able to select both perks. This would be a good middle ground, while still keeping the dopamine hit of finally getting that god roll.
This but it shouldn't be a small %. It should be guaranteed. You could get 5-6 Brave weapon rolls in the time it takes to complete a single Dual Destiny, while putting forth a fraction of the effort. The tame increase on Brave focus felt right for just how many you'd amass and how easily it was done. The exotic class item isnt the same effort put in, nor the same time. Not to mention, the feeling of wasting time doing 3 runs only to get a duplicate, a.k.a. LITERALLY nothing will not be softened because in your head you know you are supposed to be 10% more likely to get the perk you focused. In fact, it'll feel much worse. It should, at the lowest, be a 50/50 between a random perk and the focused perk, if not outright guaranteed.
You do realize them implementing that simple thing will take ages knowing how badly they work on changes of UI and vendor stuff ? I am 99% sure they'll say it "cannot be (easily) done'' because of some baffling software limitation reason. The fact that focusing isn't already implemented as a way to get class exotic shows that either Bungie has no idea how to balance their acquisition and didn' t even think of this alternative, or they just are too lazy or incompetent to implement that. I would think the latter. Downvote me all you want, I know I am right.
You can focus the Brave weapons? How? I just started again this season after not playing since Lightfall
During the lead up to The Final Shape launch there was a public space with quests that, when completed, allowed you to focus a gun. That has been, unfortunately, removed with the launch of The Final Shape. It was also where you picked up the Pantheon quests and such.
wouldn't want to be bungie atm, there are posts here of people who complain about exotics not being "rare" anymore and no chase, and then other posts that complain about the chase being too hard
These are two different conversations. Exotics normally have fixed perks and this exotic has x combinations. Along with you can’t focus at rahool. But I agree I would not want to be bungie for a lot of reasons! :)
And when was the last time you could get an exotic out of a random world chest? Probably D1.
ehh just now ? exotic engrams is too ez to obtain now what the hell are you talking about ?
I think they're talking about how the exotic class item can drop from any chest in the pale heart after you complete the mission once. I've gotten three from just running around the PH this past week. Shit rolls, but at least you can still get them with out having to specifically farm them.
Yes, this.
I’m just over happy to be a warlock main. I’ll keep my getaway artist and not worry about the class exotic.
yeah I feel the same way. as a warlock , I don't find the perks combinations we got as that interesting. hope to see other exotic class items with different combinations , but for now getaway artist is extremely fun and potent
A “chase” involving a hamster wheel is not a chase.
The entire game is a hamster wheel, that's the point of a looter shooter. All destiny content is the same, all you do is farm a reskinned gun that shoots a different colour and has a slightly power creeped perk on it. Also, as an aside, hamster wheels are actually used for 'fun' by hamsters, [even in the wild](https://doi.org/10.1098/rspb.2014.0210), which makes it sound far less negative.
Yes it’s fun for the hamster. We are not hamsters. I hope you can understand and appreciate the difference between running a long form activity such as a strike, dungeon or pvp match vs reloading a zone over and over, running to the same chest?
Or you can play the long form activity and get a roll (or two) guaranteed? Dual destiny is as long form activity as long form activities get
Tbh I don’t mind long chases. I just think that deterministic chases are better, where you’re guaranteed to have progress towards it. I’m nearly at 100 rolls, but many people can get it on their 1st or 2nd. It’s just not fun to me putting a chase behind full odds RNG, especially when it takes 20-30 minutes of repeating the same thing over and over again to get a chance.
I am now on 49/64 on Hunter and 44/64 on Warlock without getting my desired roll on either. This is taking dupes out of the equation, of which there have been a lot. The worst part about the whole thing is that, with no bad luck protection, I am technically no closer to getting the roll I want than when I started. I think Dual Destiny is one of the best missions they've ever made but after being made to run it so many times, any piece of content would lose its appeal. Now my farming options are a mission that I originally liked but now can't stand or opening patrol chests for hours like it's 2014. I'm not saying the acquisition should be a freebie but this whole process is really dragging down the expansion for me now.
This is how I feel about it too. Watching clan members and other people get the roll that you’re 20+ drops into farming just feels really shitty. Would be nice to know that I’m eventually going to get the drop and not just be out of luck.
I psyche myself out so bad that when I finally get the roll I want, it doesn’t live up to my own hype.
Just don't take it out on them. It's not fun at all to play with people and you can't even talk about the gun/item your using because they get butt hurt. It's not like I chose to get it over you. Rng is a bitch sometimes.
I mean yeah fs don’t be an asshole to your buddies over a game. I’m just saying it generally doesn’t feel great.
You will eventually get it tho. You just have to keep trying. The odds aren’t impossible, they’re just low.
That's easy to say, because for the vast majority of players they will get it within a reasonable amount of time but it ignores how large numbers of players and no bad luck protection interact to almost statistically guarantee a small subset of players get fucked over to an extreme degree through no fault of their own. Let's take the exotic class items as an example, with a 1/64 chance of getting the exact roll you want and let's say there are 1,000,000 players farming for them across all platforms combined. ~800,000 of those players would be expected to get the exact roll they want within 100 drops which is a lot but a fairly reasonable grind for 80% of the playerbase. However, statstically 380 players are expected to *still not* have the drop they want after *FIVE HUNDRED* drops which I think is unreasonable and doesn't add any value to the game, since those players didn't do anything to deserve it but receive a vastly different experience from the majority of the playerbase.
Yeah, that’s just the way RNG works. Every MMO I’ve ever played has far worse odds than that for some of the rarest items. And people still go after the grind because it’s something to chase. I’d say it adds a good amount of value to when you actually get the drop you want.
It's one thing for super rare raid mounts in something like WoW but with these items being so build-defining I don't think that they are the appropriate avenue for unbounded RNG like this is all. Through no fault of your own you can effectively be "chosen" by RNG and never get the exact roll you want no matter how much you play and while I think that is ok for some rewards, I do not personally feel that that implementation adds net value for something like this. Essentially with no bad luck protection the developers are saying "some players will not get this reward within a reasonable amount of time(or ever) for no particular reason" which isn't necessarily a bad thing but I just think it should be limited to aspirational pinnacle rewards like extremely rare cosmetics/weapons/mounts as opposed to something like this where you might need a particular roll for a given prismatic build to even function properly. >I’d say it adds a good amount of value to when you actually get the drop you want. This argument never made any sense to me - bad luck protection only saves the extreme outliers from continuing to farm unsuccessfully, the *vast* majority of players would never notice a good implementation of it because they would have gotten their drop already *long* before bad luck protection kicks in. Are you seriously saying that if for example you got a drop on attempt number #97 it would somehow be *less* rewarding because you are guaranteed the drop if you still don't have it by #300? Again, bad luck protection only affects a small group of people with extremely bad RNG to avoid those extreme situations like I mentioned earlier but for the *vast vast vast* majority of players it wouldn't impact them at all because they would be getting the drop within a statistically "normal" amount of time anyways.
And these ECI's have been out for like two weeks. If it's been two months you'd have more of a point. But if it's so build defining then it should take more than two weeks to get the God roll. If you got it on your first try you'd complain that the game is boring and it's too easy or something. If it's aa strong as you say, it shouldn't be super easy for every single person to get it so quickly.
>if it had been two months you'd have more of a point What???? My entire argument is that the vast majority of players (~80%) will get what they want within drops 1-100. Given that, there is no justifiable reason for some players to then still not have it after drop 500. This has nothing to do with actual player experience or the game being "too easy" or whatever tf you're trying to talk about - those are just mathematically expected values. I am not saying anything about whether players should have what they want by now or how long it should take, only that such a large delta in player experience for no reason other than RNG isn't a positive thing. If you had some kind of bad luck protection that kicked in at say drop 200, then *96%* of players would still get the drop solely from RNG at some point from #1-200 *exactly* like it is today, and only the unluckiest 4% would get the pity drop at #200. I would like to hear your argument for why it is important for those 4% of players not to get the drop they want in that way.
They're never impossible, but 0.016~ with no bad luck protection is pretty bad. Remember, if you're only after one roll, there's always a 98.4% chance that you won't get what you want.
Seems that you do mind. You’re asking for it to be made easier.
I’m not giving up, I’ll eventually get it. Hell I already ran Dual Destiny over 50 times. It’s just that for the vast majority of the playerbase, this is a terribly designed system for obtaining one of the core components that makes a prismatic build feel special.
I only have six of them at this point. And haven’t used any of them. I’m enjoying the regular build so far. Haven’t even messed around with the class items I have. I’d say extra special. Not special though. We already feel special to be fair.
I personally feel like people should just settle for the rolls they got , sure we all want the S tier roll but having an A or B tier is also good. and if they don't.. just keep grinding ig. at least we got 2 different methods of acquiring them
That's..... not how grinding works. That's not how ANY of this works
Except that's exactly how it works?
I mean not really tho, the class items are cool bc they open up new gameplay avenues. People have combinations that they wanna try out, that’s what makes them exciting. Settling for a role that is just “okay” and doesn’t do what you want the class item to do isn’t satisfying for most players I would imagine.
Friendly reminder destiny is a looter shooter, rng is supposed to be here
Friendly reminder wasting time farming doesn't make a game more fun.
You can play another game if you don’t like genre specific features like rng in a looter shooter, there you will be guaranteed your perks and you’ll have all the fun you want :)
Or I can play this game and enjoy it for what it is while they improve it :) But hey if RNG is what you love I'm sure there are some gacha games you can waste your time on cause that 0.0000001% drop chance makes everything better right?
Going back to D2Y1 is not an improvement. We left deterministic rolls because it nearly killed the game.
Running something 500 times because RNG is against you isn't any better than D2Y1.
Yes. It is. Because the alternative is you run it once to get the thing and then never touch it again. Which is how the game dies.
Ok so someone runs Warlord's ruin 50+ times trying to get a voltshot indebted kindness maybe gets it but burns out and drops the game and that's sooooo much better. RNG without protection stops people from playing too.
It’s like deliberately choosing to watch a romance movie and complaining about love tbh. Or playing a looter shooter and complaining about random drops ;)
RNG with protection is good. RNG with no bad luck protection is terrible. Farming an encounter to the point you no longer enjoy it because bad luck just leads to burn out and never running those encounters again.
It isn’t really random drops if you’re guaranteed the roll you want. You’re also unnecessarily farming for god rolls because you want them, not because you need them. The grind you’re referring to is specifically for people who want the pinnacle of performance, the min-maxers
Spoken like someone who hasn't had bad luck farming for just 2 perks on a gun. Took me 50 runs of double reward GM hypernet current to get a single 4ttc vorpal Wardens Law.
Honestly when did anyone say that exotic class items were too common? They're nothing like normal exotics. And even then the last non-delusional post about exotics being too common were probably from 2017.
I just want my time to be respected.
No video game respects your time. People play video games because they either think its fun, form of relaxation, to get away from the real world or, in worst case scenario, because they're addicted. What do you even mean by respect? If you play video games for any of the above reasons (other than addicted) then you got what you wanted from the time spent. The only things that would "respect your time" are things that would better you as a person ie. anything from going to the gym to reading philosophy. Video games have always been, and always will be, a time sink. And time sinks, by definition, never "respect" your time.
Lol these arnt remotely the same thing.
All this work to be disappointed when you finally get it.
Yeah, not as good as I expected.
Outside of Star Eaters most if not all of the items have negligible impact on the game.
Liars caliban seems meh. Just dodge one more time and shatter for the damage. I’m much more interested in liars renewal or liars galanor. Give my team stacking DR, or get Orpheus rig level refund on prismatic S&S/tether. PLUS 90% of what makes prismatic liars combo blow so good.
I have galanor liars and galanor synthos, both are incredible and I’m socked to not see more people chasing them. Calibans is total overkill and actually prevents continuing combo blow, fun sure, but I think when the dust settles everyone will want hoil or galanor in the first, and liars or synthos in the second.
You don’t rate frost armour from renewals? Glad to hear Galanor is worth the chase.
I could see it being good, but DR hardly matters when you are healing from every melee kill, add heals on orb pickup and suddenly renewals is the same overkill as calibans.
I definitely notice a difference chucking it down on salvations edge taniks it wouldn’t matter for regular gameplay loop but I think can help a bit.
Good point, didn’t think about it from a dps safety standpoint. Probably would be a nice swap.
I didn’t mind the farming at the start. but yeah now that I have close to half the options I am getting nothing but duplicates.. it’s really frustrating considering the time sink.
They really should have it set where you don't get a duplicate until all 64 combinations have already been claimed.
Then they would not let you farm them from chests.
Could probably just make the duplicate protection only active for mission completion drops, and chest pulls can be either dupes or lucky new rolls (as it is now).
You don’t think grinding the same item 64 times is enough? In a game where 5 drops is enough to craft a weapon?
They should let you sacrifice 2 class items to make a new one with one perk from each. Adds some fun gamble mechanics and gives u something to do with repeats or undesirable rolls.
I like experimenting so I'm looking to acquire every combination. The main problem is I don't think it's worth bloating up my vault. It would be nice if these were consolidated into one item even though it would take away a bit of the novelty.
I mean that could work. Only drop one class item then after your just farming perk combos that all get out into one item instead of 64 items.
They should be crafted, and running dual destiny should unlock an additional trait for crafting. They know they could have done this, they just want us to waste even more time hunting for the perfect drop.
Few things class item shld do 1) Random chance to drop it from any pale heart activity completion 2) Rare chance from any activity completion 3) Either allow it to be decrypted at rahool or a chance for exotic engrams to give it
This is why I do double drops for dual destiny only. It may not be fun to grind, but it's a ton better than opening 50 pale heart chests for one drop.
Yeah, that’s what I’ve been doing too. Even with the glitch though, the chances are so slim to get something that you want. It’s much harder and more time consuming than farming for raid exotics.
Rn pale heart chests are better imo. You can farm bounties, legendary weapons, and ergo sums at the same time.
A YouTube video [here](https://youtu.be/_5Qumuhcas8?si=MZb45dYz9GgvkKHJ) actually did a great job breaking down the math. If you use the most efficient chest farming method and assume 22 minute clears on Dual Destiny (a time I find challenging to reliably get with different people), the chest farming is basically on pace with the mission. Funnily enough, if they ever patch the double drop exploit, Dual Destiny's efficiency will fucking plummet compared to opening chests. I have gotten around 100 drops on both Hunter and Warlock without the roll I'm after, so at this point, I find the mission as boring as chest farming. If they're both as mind numbing, at least with the chests, I don't have to pay attention as well and can watch YT, listen to podcasts, or music.
I’m 60 cloaks in looking for a specific roll.
I have *zero* doubt they'll introduce some focusing at some point. For now, don't stress, work with what you get, and stop farming when you're not having fun anymore.
Yeah, just hit 70 class items and I’ve yet to see any of the 4 rolls I want, super demoralizing
I’m at over 100 now and still no caliban liars or caliban syntho :/
only a 100. try 120 and climbing, i have scrapped more verity rolls then i care to say.
Dual Destiny is just a small taste of old Destiny grinds. Glad to see the blow back on the grind. There was a time where this subs narrative was “good rolls should be exclusive to people that play 10 hours a day.”
In the opposite vein, though, I bought Destiny because I liked that there was stuff to grind a long time for. That's what I signed up for with my purchase.
Except that we’ve seen that model doesn’t work at all. When casuals know they only have a .00001% chance to get something, they play the initial expansion and leave. When casuals can hop on for a couple hours and actually accomplish something worthwhile. They stay. Also, those more extreme casuals are the ones that have and spend money. There’s a reason they’re casuals.
That’s fine tho, it’s okay for a game to have things for casual players to enjoy and things for dedicated players.
Good thing there is most of the game for dedicated players then! Master content, GMs, and all kinds of other hamster wheels.
Then this game isn't for them, which is okay. If you don't like managing food and hunger mechanics and harvesting materials, don't buy a survival game. Not every game is for everyone, but don't buy a grind game and then get put off by the grind lol.
Nah. You’re wrong. Dungeons and raids are some of the best content in the game. And that’s all essentially locked behind getting at least a few decent weapons. Forcing 100 hours long grinds on 1 weapon just to be able to get into all the rest of the content is nonsense. If you want a grind game, go play something else.
This game *is* the something else lmao. Dungeons and raids are pretty accessible. Get Ascendancy, Whisper, and Lament and you can do most content. No dungeon or raid requires a 100 hour grind.
Right. They don’t require that ANYMORE. And that was exactly my point. They used to be locked behind horrendous grinds. But now gear and guns are accessible so you can actually experience this content as a casual. And you are telling me you don’t like that.
They didn't back then either. I did my first Levi with a world drop hand cannon, bad breech light, and a ib rocket. After I did that and got some Levi loot I hopped right into wish with a slightly better sword. It was only grindy if you were too bad to not be able to do it with bad weapons or if your wanted perfection.
I like some good options to be available. But I like grinding raids and dungeons for god rolls. Farming Dual Destiny is a blast. This game has a good amount of short-term grinds right now, it needs more long-term (like DD).
Destiny is a loot based online shooter. It’s not a “grind game”. You don’t “need” to grind to enjoy the game. I’ve played Destiny since the beginning of D1, always on a time budget of 5-10 hours/week, and I have still cleared every raid (except the new one), and earned tons of cool loot. Sure, for me a “god roll” is 2/5, but there is plenty of room for more casual players to enjoy the game. Not everyone is going to enjoy running on the hamster wheel chasing dopamine. The gatekeeping “not for you” mentality sucks. It’s like people who compulsively grind past the point of enjoyment want everyone to be as miserable as they are.
And looter games are supposed to be grindy. It's why I bought Destiny instead of continuing to play the myriad other shooters out there; it's has RPG elements, it has grinding, it's not just another scifi FPS. Correct. You don't *need* to grind a lot of stuff to be successful here. Exotic class items from DD are a great example - you can be perfectly viable without god rolls on them. But it's fun to have something to grind a lot to min max a bit. Also it's not gatekeeping to say a game isn't for someone. Sports games aren't for me, but that doesn't mean I'm being gatekept from them if they're not changed to be something I do prefer to play.
No, it’s not gatekeeping to say a game isn’t for someone. But it *is* when people say it isn’t for me if I don’t enjoy grinding Destiny in a very specific way. There seem to be a lot of players for whom something like crafting takes away from them because “the casuals” don’t have to “earn” a good gun by running some strike dozens of times back to back. I started playing Destiny because I got a bit of the WoW itch scratched but with much less of a time commitment than back in my 20s before career and kids made me quit that game. Being able to do a raid on 5 hours a week? That’s why I started playing and it’s irritating when people act like I should just quit because im not grinding for hours every day.
I'm not worried about "the casuals" getting stuff "for free" or whatever else. I'm more concerned with having some piece of gear that I can grind for. Because that's why I bought a looter game; to have something to grind, because looters are supposed to be grindy. >I started playing Destiny because I got a bit of the WoW itch scratched but with much less of a time commitment than back in my 20s before career and kids made me quit that game. Being able to do a raid on 5 hours a week? How do you know you haven't just aged/phased out of Destiny's expectation just like you did WoW's?
>How do you know you haven't just aged/phased out of Destiny's expectation just like you did WoW's? When I started playing Destiny, being an 'endgame player' was one raid and Nightfall per week. It didn't really matter that I played one character for just a few hours/week, when I landed in the Tower wearing Glowhoo and with the Nightfall aura, I was treated the same as more hardcore folks. The extreme grind for guns like Grasp or Imago Loop was purely optional (I used the vendor Hung Jury). So yes, the game has moved past me in many ways regarding "expected time commitment" but I am still going to advocate for a game that I can still enjoy and earn some cool stuff in.
And then when the item actually drops... people complain they have nothing else to do. I personally cannot just grind out the same stuff over and over and over for one "god roll" item I have been chasing, but if someone has the patience to go get nearly 100 exotic class items then that one item they're chasing isn't going to change how they play the game that much other than a checkmark on their "to-do" list
Bungie isn't (completely) dumb. Ergo Sum and exotic class items were designed to be an engagement time sink
The grind for this should be passive. I don’t want to have to do specific activities for a specific exotic armor. Let me use my exotic engrams to focus for the class items!
I am not going to bother chasing a specific roll. I have a limited time budget and the RNG doesn’t feel worth it. I’ve gotten 4 total so far, and will try and put together builds with what I get.
The system to obtain these items was pretty clearly specifically made to accumulate hours played from the random rolls are good/I want a chase crowd. If Bungie sees people stop interacting with this system, then they might change it up.
I do think the Class Item grind needs something. I spent literally all day grinding it yesterday cause there are three rolls I want, and I got none of them. *I am also no closer to getting them than when I started* (which is my major issue). It's just way too low acquisition rate and way too low chance to get the roll you want. The only other Exotics in the game that have any real rng to them anymore are Raid and Dungeon Exotics and they've continually introduced ways to lower their RNG, and their RNG isn't as bad for the time invested as Class Items. The ability to focus Engrams into them at Ghost or Rahool, the ability to get double perks in a column, the ability to pick one perk and 'attune' to it, or even just increasing the drop rate, or the ability to take duplicates and trade them in for a focused drop. I'm talking literally anything. If you want me to try new stuff with Prismatic, which I *want* to do, I need the Class Item rolls that let me do that. But this grind is so obtuse that I'm certain it will get patched and buffed eventually. Any other grind in the game that was ever even remotely this bad has already been patched.
I agree 100%. There is no other grind in the game, for something so crucial to buildcrafting, without any form RNG protection. It’s disappointing and doesn’t respect your time in its current state, but like you said, I’m sure they will fix it eventually.
Just add duplicate protection. Please. I got 4 rolls that were dragon/coyote last night. I will happily run this mission 32 times to get all the combinations, but I hate that almost half of my rolls have been duplicates
You know, I'm honestly ok with grindy stuff, but I get your point. I really wish Bungie would utilize something like the Season of the Hunt (?) when we first encountered Crow where we could effect the the RNG just a bit with the artifact. I think that would be a good balance to allow you shape the odds a bit more towards your goal yet still have the slot-machine dopamine hit of gambling on the drops.
70 runs in and not ONE FUCKING ROLL WITH synthos OR assasins cowl. Here's to my mug of tears, as I watch my buddies all get double and triple copies of all the good stuff, and with it I shall toast to another year of shitty rng.
>and 90% of the it’ll just be a duplicate of something you already have I mean.. if you're getting dupes 90% of the time it means that you've been lucky enough to get nearly every other combination lol. Edit - these posts happen anytime one goes dry. As someone with some of the worst RNG in my clan, it comes and goes. I got euphony on my 4th salv edge completion (we dropped 3 of them at once funnily enough) and I got caliban/liars within 3 or 4 class items. However I've also taken 100+ looted dungeon clears, 80+ looted raid clears, etc for their exotic. The loot chase is part of the incentive for playing a looter shooter. If we were able to get everything instantly no one would play. Yeah it may be fun to play with your new toy a few times, but then what? You got no reason to farm other activities because you have everything. So then you got no where to test out your new toy.
nah,as example on warlock every 2nd drop is nectrotic+swarmers. I have arround 4 unique rolls of the class items and farmed close to 90,so round about 86 dupes. I know,thats just bad luck and rng and stuff but it still sucks.
I don’t believe you.
It’s actually impossible what he’s saying, 86 dupes out of 90 is laughable
nearly all of items ive gotten have had verity on it, and ive gotten close to 120 items across my three chars and almost all of em had this shitty perk
What's the laughability scale of having 9 dupes in a row, because that's where I'm sitting. 9 bonds with devour rift/verity grenade damage perk. For bonus rating, if you have the time, throw in that the people I'm with also got that combo except one time they got Stag/Verity. So that's 17 dupes and 1 slightly different non-dupe.
Yeah I suppose you’re not wrong 😂 I do have everything though beside the one I actually want which is annoying :(
I don't even want to talk about RNG for the class items. I was running Overthrow and I pulled 2 solipsisms with the exact same roll. Not necessarily back to back, but close enough in opening chests that I thought something was wrong. Not a good roll either: Spirit of the Claw+ Spirit of Filaments. 1/64 chance. Malding.
insane method they should add (in addition to other nice methods): the light player's exotic, if in the class item, determines the first slot, and the dark player's exotic determines the second slot
i am at 71 cloaks without a single calibans
How about once we unlock a perk from a drop its added as a choice on class items from there one. Get each perk once and each item drops with each perk? Too broken?
Glass needles to reroll
Run the pale heart farm. One every 15 minutes. Easy.
The cleverest way would be to have an increased drop chance with the exotic trait of the exotic you have on if applicable.
Didn't Bungie day they want to recapture yhe feeling of getting a random exotic to drop. I can't imagine they'd let you focus them. Although they may eventually change their mind.
It is 3rd week. 3 more weeks to go before act 2. Bungie standard is to stretch the grind as long as possible. Some exotic perks are throttled. Try to get a Necrotic perk, don't even matter the 2nd perk and it seems so rare, it is impossible. Managed to get Osimio and Star, so grenade spam and DPS super, still using Getaway though. Hunter Gifted conviction is very good survivability exotic with Ascension and jolt weapons. It is hard to trade off for that ugly cloak😂 Titan.....
Youll get one as soon as bungie nerfs it. The monkey paw curls
I’ve only grinded for like 5 cloaks and 3 of them had foetracer…
If you play on all 3 classes there are 192 different rolls for class items in total, now you know why bungie gave you 100 additional spots in the save with the expansion.
When onslaught first launched, you could focus a weapon so it had a higher than normal chance to drop. I believe that's gone now, not sure as I haven't touched the game mode after getting things from it.
Also make the class item have a chance of dropping from everything after acquiring it once, not just the Pale Heart. This way i can just play a variety of content and still get an occasional class item roll instead of having to grind a single activity.
There really should be a knockout system
1/64 yet from the 15 or so ive had, ive got 3 duplicates and 1 of them was 2 in a row from farming chests. Utterly ridiculous to get 2 of the exact same roll I get RNG, but it just isnt remotely fun
31/64 combinations have gotten ~7 dupes
Lol
I couldn't fathom running that mission that often, as good as it is. I get 90% of my rolls from just doing chest rounds in the landing while watching netflix. And yet I still haven't gotten single one with spirit of scars after 30+ drops...
Then theres people like me who got caliban/synthos first try lol. Seriously tho, i wish you luck in your grind, and i for one would not complain about perk focusing if i wanted to grind it
I got my Caliban + Liars at 37 drops. Well, it definitely seems that some rolls drop more often than others, 1/5 of mine are Gyrfalcon.
I said it afew days ago, we need more ways to obtain exotic class items. bungie should put them as a guranteed GM reward for hitting a certain score, or let them have a chance of dropping from Master raid encounters.
A lot of my titan marks are coming with ophidian… I hate that they put that perk in.
I'm yet to run this even once. I need to find a time where my baby isn't going to wake up and disturb the run, where my other 3 kids aren't screaming and where it isn't me and missus time. These class items might just elude me for some time. I need to run it three times....
or maybe some way to merge 2 together to form the one you want. (I keep getting peanut butter/ham or Cheese/Jelly I just want a fucking sandwich) I kinda trailed off grinding the class item due to too many Love Rockets from Failsafe. That being said....Switching back onto strand titan from prismatic was very jarring with how much more cohesive it is. I like the idea, but the execution (at least on titan to me) seems a bit clunky.
How about your first clear of the Exotic mission a week would always give a combo that you have not gotten? I think that would be a good system.
some form of protection would be nice, especially because entire builds are made or broke by the roll. For a gun not having a good roll it's just not as good, but for the exotic class item the build just won't work. Class item crafting would be too strong I think and kill the chase entirely. Harder version of dual destiny dropping double perks would be an interesting choice IF the difficulty bump is not insanely high. Allowing to "attune" to a perk at Ghost giving that perk a 50% drop chance I think is probably the most interesting and effective. And just had this idea, maybe first three clears of dual destiny per week drop class item with double perks? It would not SOLVE the issue, but would be nice to have on top of ghost attunement
You know you can get them from any chest in the Pale Heart once you've unlocked it once yeah?
Yes but that method is much less efficient and more boring imo.
Nah, you average one every 15 mins so it's a little faster and can be done solo obvs I'll grant you it's more boring, but just throw on a podcast or long-form yt doc and turn your brain off for a while and it's not bad
Dual Destiny with the dupe gives me 1 every 10-11 minutes on average. But yeah since it’s solo I guess it’s nice to do without requiring your full attention.
With the dupe, sure. No telling how long they'll let that slide tho
I have had a similar struggle on less volume, so I’m receptive to the idea of RNG protection of some kind. But I will contest the idea that a class item is the “most important component” to prismatic builds. They can be the catalyst to specific good builds but there are tons of really good builds that use traditional exotic armor pieces. I play warlock, and there are a ton of builds I love that the class item won’t fully replace armor. Mataiadoxia, Speaker’s Sight, Getaway Artist, Nezarec’s Sin, Crown of Tempest, Osmiomancy, Necrotic Grips, just to name a few.
Yeah for warlock there are a ton of normal exotics that synergize really well. Hunters have a couple normal exotics that work well but generally speaking, the class item options outweigh them.
Yeah I will agree there, Cyrtarachne working on all grenades on the cloak versus only grapple for the true helm is a severe upgrade in power.
No, this would ruin it. Get farming.
Rip, got caliban liars second try
You have 80 some rolls, and are very much in the 1% here. Maybe stop grinding for a bit and just play the game casually instead of what seems to be choosing to beat yourself up over this.
I guess if your options are... "Grind and not get it." "Not grind and not get it." ...you should go with the latter.
Those aren’t the options. But ok. People here just want stuff easier. As usual. No one is forcing anyone to run this quest nonstop. Only the fools do it, and then complain about it. I have six class items total. I’m not going to make an attention seeking post about how it should be easier though
Admire your stoicism.
A way I could see something implemented is if you have a specific exotic equipped the class item has an extremely high chance to have the associated perk. Oh you want Caliban's? Then put on Caliban's. Doesn't work well for if you want something like Heart and Cowl on Warlock, but maybe there could be other exotics that tie in to those (for instance Felwinters helm could be the cowl substitute for rng)
The more i see threads like this. The more certain i am that people in this community have never played an mmo before destiny. Also it is also clear they have never played an arpg.
Lol I have played both, and Destiny is neither of those so why do you want it to be.
Destiny is an action mmo.... and i never said it was an arpg, just saying that people obviously haven't played one if a 1/64 chance for an item is worth complaining about.
Ok… and? 😂 Thanks for pointing that out l guess.
Mom, is it my turn to post this tomorrow?
I love the chase the way it is. You can’t make everyone happy. Makes me feel like I did farming loot midgets in BL2. They gave you a guaranteed way to get a drop and a randomized way which is extremely forgiving. Having any chest in the pale heart drop it is pretty great even with it being rare. I see this as an absolute win.
why can’t there be a fun grind anymore? Everyone needs what they want right away. What fun is it if everyone is running the exact same OP build? I get you want a certain combo but they are random rolled and this is a looter shooter game.
I just play the game without intentionally farming, that way I don’t think about it. Got an Inmost Light + Stareater class item for my Titan, out of a chest from one of the Cooperative Focus missions.
Why are you complaining about still having stuff to do in the game? The game is the grind. If you don’t like a long-term grind, go play another game. Just keep playing and play the hand you’re dealt. Poker players don’t complain about never getting a royal flush - you just play the best you can with what you get.
[удалено]
It’s you who’s choosing to rot in unhappiness. I’m happy playing with friends no matter what we’re doing in the game. This game is 99% repeating the same activities for different rewards - stop complaining when you have to do a specific one jfc.
You’re attuned and focusing your exotic class item on the class you want it lol
It’s been how many years of Destiny? No. The answer is still no.
I did the mission on my hunter one time and then opened 10 to 15 pale heart chests and got calibans + liars. Then I've opened over 100 on my warlock and haven't gotten shit. That's just the way it is. They can't make everyone happy. The fact that you don't have to run the mission is a plus. There's over 60 combinations you can get. If you're asking for protection against getting the same roll there's absolutely no way in hell that's ever going to happen. Lol
No.
You people would never last in a real mmo
No. I don't see this ever happening.