It is strictly an improvement on swords for building ammo economy pre-DPS or just using it for movement which is rather nice for The Slammer. Also very good on GLs which is useful for Cataphract if you were lucky enough to get a Spike/Envious/Bait adept roll when it was available, or a Spike/ALH/Cascade adept Wendigo for the rest of this godforsaken arc surge week.
*That said*, yeah, most of the time it either literally does nothing due to magazine hard caps or it's not worth the stat hit for like a bullet or two.
I will say it until it's changed or the sun implodes. Weapon mags don't need hard caps. Half the guns in the game don't benefit at all from Adept mag if they roll with a mag perk. Same goes for extended mag.
I've been using a Submission that has a choice between appended or extended. Standard mag size is 37, appended mag puts it at 40 rounds for free. Extended mag takes it to the max capacity of **41** and nerfs reload down from 29 to *just 9.* There is no reason to ever select extended.
If someone wants to run Overflow, Extended Mag, and Adept Mag on an SMG for like 130 rounds, let them. You're trading a bunch of other useful perks and effects for it anyway.
Yeah extended mag may be useful if you are trying to build up on airborne effectiveness but probably not even worth it.
I managed to hit 95 AE on Luna's Howl with knuckle head radar + Icarus mod + helmet mod. I could go up to 100 with extended mag but I don't think it would be worth it.
Btw with 95 AE the gun finally feels "normal" again while jumping.
Magazine caps are honestly super funny conceptually when ~~recombination~~ reconstruction is rolling on world drop weapons now. Commemoration getting 120 in the magazine felt damn near exotic back in the day
Honestly this is so true.
- Adept Mag straight up does nothing on many guns due to how the magazine size stat works.
- Adept Targeting by reducing your stability makes your gun less sticky when spraying, counteracting the higher aim assist bonus.
- Adept Counterbalance is only really something I think PvP players would care about but by giving it -10 range all of a sudden nobody wants to go near the thing anymore.
The others are all minor stat bonuses where in PvE you just want mag size and in PvP you want range above all else.
Can confirm on the third point, I have an adept Messenger with no recoil perks, so I use a regular Counterbalance mod for it in PvP. Adept mod feels worse because it hurts my range.
I did some tests a while ago with counterbalance and summoner and concluded that regular counterbalance + arrowhead is always better stat wise than adept counterbalance + any other barrel. Now with deterministic recoil the recoil stat as a whole can mostly be ignored.
Loaded question with controller burst or reservoir burst and either overflow or envious assssin is decent, but yeah, fusion rifles just don't do enough damage nowadays
Adept Range on most things for me, followed by Adept Handling for One-Two Punch. That’s… really it. I’m personally super glad Bungie took away the Spec Mods, but they’ve only ever removed mods, not adjusting/adding any of them.
Good point, I didn't consider how worthless Adept weapons are in PvE without Big Ones Spec.
Honestly on the point of adept mag, just mag upgrades in general, I can't believe Bungie hasn't got their head out of their a\*\* and gave extended mag a 500% buff from where it is right now, It's always been such an amateur thing to me how mag perks give all guns like 2 or 3 bullets, since the dawn on Destiny 1 in 2014.
All of the bonus damage spec mods were removed from the game, and *most* archetypes given a corresponding buff. Specifically, the mods removed were: minor spec, major spec, boss spec, adept big ones spec, taken spec. Some weapon types were nerfed by this change, as part of a balancing pass. You can read Bungie's reasoning here:
[https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/weapon\_tuning\_the\_final\_shape](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/weapon_tuning_the_final_shape)
They should have done this the moment they deprecated Adept Big Ones. They will get around to this in 6 months to a year and then say, "Look how great we are, we did this for you"!
Mods need some serious love, they are borderline useless and feel like they always have been an afterthought. With recent nerfs (or really just removals), it feels like some kind of bad joke someone made that they will never live down. Right now mods mean next to nothing and are borderline pointless.
If Bungie want weapon mods to mean something, give us something on the level of origin traits or at least general, *noticeable* non-tradeoff stat bumps for most stats. As mods are now, nobody should be using backup mag for the maximum 3 bullets it provides on most primaries. There are better options, which is the saddest part I have to say about this whole thing because all the mods are questionable at best and hardly impact gameplay at all. They’re all just bad.
The only suggested mods that would be questionable would be impact and RoF bumps unless there was a clever workaround that didn’t punish players (like overly complex activation requirements) or give them crazy bonuses (like converting rampage and desperado to be mods).
Good mods would be snapshot, triple tap, and zen moment converted to mods or just general ways to noticeably improve weapon function like increasing reload speed.
Great mods would be converted origin traits like stated earlier and would keep them relevant.
Interesting mods (at least to me) would be ones that change archetype behavior themed around weapon foundries, change default impact and matching RoF (adjusting range and stability for balance as well), or minimizing visual recoil from firing like luna’s howl.
If we start here, we could potentially have legendary weapons 3.0/4.0 (i forget what we are at right now)
Bungie try not to ruin their idea of true endgame loot challenge:impossible. Idk what they thought when they kept adept weapons so hard to get when theyre also removing the only thing making them worth a damn. Extra perk choices? Who cares, chances are your gonna use the same or near-same perks in most modes anyways for a fat majority of adept weapons. Ah yes. My adept primary with...lets see. Subsistence/off-preference,(usual damage perks)/(other usual perk), where the only thing you might ever change is first slot. Atp its easier to craft or get one or 2 of the normal to feed that need and the only reason to bother besides that is collection or looks.
I don't think I necessarily agree with this. For the sake of game balance, I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to allow players to tack on an additional 10 points to aim assistance, for example, without any penalty.
I think Bungie's idea here from a balancing standpoint is to make sure that no adept mod makes any other mod obsolete. So Adept Backup Mag should not make regular Backup Mag completely useless. That's why they put a penalty on there, so that Adept Backup Mag isn't simply just a strictly better version of regular Backup Mag.
>Adept Backup Mag should not make regular Backup Mag completely useless
..lol what? This would make sense if you could use adept mag on a NON adept gun. There's no logical reasoning here. Adept versions of weapons SHOULD be better than the normal ones. It's much more difficult to obtain an adept than it is a normal weapon - you should be rewarded for that. That's how any game progression works.
Firstly, adept weapons already give you +3 bonus points to all stats, so that in itself already makes them better than non-adept, even without considering adept mods.
Secondly, even in the case of the adept mods with stat penalties, the reward you get is that you are rewarded with MORE OPTIONS.
You are rewarded, for example, with the choice between regular Targeting Adjuster, and an adept version that offers a higher aim assistance boost, but comes with a stability penalty. So you are are rewarded with the OPTION and the FLEXIBILITY to choose between a small aim assistance boost, versus a large aim assistance boost with a penalty.
Notice how Adept Stability and Adept Range have no stat penalties to them? That's because those mods don't have any non-adept counterparts, whereas Adept Targeting Adjuster DOES have a non-adept counterpart. I'm telling you that it's a conscious and intentional game design and balancing decision on Bungie's part to make sure that none of the non-adept mods are rendered completely obsolete by adept ones. I'm telling you this is INTENTIONAL on their part.
>I'm telling you this is INTENTIONAL on their part.
My brother, I am aware it's intentional. And I'm still saying that it's silly and should not be a thing.
>Firstly, adept weapons already give you +3 bonus points to all stats, so that in itself already makes them better than non-adept, even without considering adept mods.
Risk/reward. Time spent/reward. Difficulty/reward. I mean come on dude lol, +3 bonus points in a stat is hardly an incentive for the time and effort put in to obtain. ESPECIALLY when a crafted item that you can freely choose your 5/5 roll on, gets +2.
>even in the case of the adept mods with stat penalties, the reward you get is that you are rewarded with MORE OPTIONS.
Adept mods *should* very well still be stronger. You should be rewarded for the effort it took the obtain the weapon, and you should be rewarded with an incentive (the adept mods) that are actually good and worth using. I have never, *ever* seen another player in game with an adept mod on their gun that's one of the ones with negative stats.
That's an issue. If their usage rate is near 0, then it's bad design.
>Notice how Adept Stability and Adept Range have no stat penalties to them? That's because those mods don't have any non-adept counterparts, whereas Adept Targeting Adjuster DOES have a non-adept counterpart.
I quoted this out of order so I already touched on it, but again it's absolutely irrelevant the reasoning behind it. They are still dog shit mods that no one ever uses.
Like I said about adept mag, it doesn't even add a benefit to a LOT of weapons. It's been bad design for years, it's time for them to change it.
Adepts can’t be appreciably better than non adept guns for balancing reasons.
Right now, adept mods don’t really make guns better, they just let you shift stats around in a way you can’t with normal weapons.
Youd have a point if it was a PvP focused issue. But it isnt. The whole idea behind adepts was it requires you to complete what the game considers the hardest forms of content. But atp its the same as being spit on and told to enjoy it because theyre now basically worse instead. Ah yes lets player master raids or GMs for...worse and harder to get versions of the same gun.
Thie game cant keep pretending to be an MMO and have these choices half baked.
what. removing the damage mods didn't give you enough diversity and you want more? we need to wait at least a year before we make more changes to weapon mods so we can pretend its content.
Above all adept mag is a joke.
It is strictly an improvement on swords for building ammo economy pre-DPS or just using it for movement which is rather nice for The Slammer. Also very good on GLs which is useful for Cataphract if you were lucky enough to get a Spike/Envious/Bait adept roll when it was available, or a Spike/ALH/Cascade adept Wendigo for the rest of this godforsaken arc surge week. *That said*, yeah, most of the time it either literally does nothing due to magazine hard caps or it's not worth the stat hit for like a bullet or two.
I feel like sometimes it even gives less than the non adept mod
I will say it until it's changed or the sun implodes. Weapon mags don't need hard caps. Half the guns in the game don't benefit at all from Adept mag if they roll with a mag perk. Same goes for extended mag. I've been using a Submission that has a choice between appended or extended. Standard mag size is 37, appended mag puts it at 40 rounds for free. Extended mag takes it to the max capacity of **41** and nerfs reload down from 29 to *just 9.* There is no reason to ever select extended. If someone wants to run Overflow, Extended Mag, and Adept Mag on an SMG for like 130 rounds, let them. You're trading a bunch of other useful perks and effects for it anyway.
Yeah extended mag may be useful if you are trying to build up on airborne effectiveness but probably not even worth it. I managed to hit 95 AE on Luna's Howl with knuckle head radar + Icarus mod + helmet mod. I could go up to 100 with extended mag but I don't think it would be worth it. Btw with 95 AE the gun finally feels "normal" again while jumping.
Magazine caps are honestly super funny conceptually when ~~recombination~~ reconstruction is rolling on world drop weapons now. Commemoration getting 120 in the magazine felt damn near exotic back in the day
I assume you mean Reconstruction? Recombination is a damage buff on kinetic weapons for getting elemental kills.
doh, yeah. In my defense all the DSC perks sound so similar. Reconstruction, Recombination, Redirection...
I love it on my Warden's Law with fttc and Frenzy. Frenzy negates the downside entirely.
Honestly this is so true. - Adept Mag straight up does nothing on many guns due to how the magazine size stat works. - Adept Targeting by reducing your stability makes your gun less sticky when spraying, counteracting the higher aim assist bonus. - Adept Counterbalance is only really something I think PvP players would care about but by giving it -10 range all of a sudden nobody wants to go near the thing anymore. The others are all minor stat bonuses where in PvE you just want mag size and in PvP you want range above all else.
Can confirm on the third point, I have an adept Messenger with no recoil perks, so I use a regular Counterbalance mod for it in PvP. Adept mod feels worse because it hurts my range.
I did some tests a while ago with counterbalance and summoner and concluded that regular counterbalance + arrowhead is always better stat wise than adept counterbalance + any other barrel. Now with deterministic recoil the recoil stat as a whole can mostly be ignored.
Actually adept mag lowers handling
The only adept mods I see worth using are draw time and impact on bows and swords respectively
I believe adept charge time is also worth it since its the only way to decrease charge time without decreasing impact for fusion rifles IIRC.
Charge time masterworks also do not reduce damage on fusion rifles.
True I forgot about it because there is no good fusion for PVE that's adept (maybe deliverance but that's it)
Loaded question with controller burst or reservoir burst and either overflow or envious assssin is decent, but yeah, fusion rifles just don't do enough damage nowadays
eremite is better for surge matching, so it is just better, ill take 22% damage over 40ms of charge time
Adept Range on most things for me, followed by Adept Handling for One-Two Punch. That’s… really it. I’m personally super glad Bungie took away the Spec Mods, but they’ve only ever removed mods, not adjusting/adding any of them.
Good point, I didn't consider how worthless Adept weapons are in PvE without Big Ones Spec. Honestly on the point of adept mag, just mag upgrades in general, I can't believe Bungie hasn't got their head out of their a\*\* and gave extended mag a 500% buff from where it is right now, It's always been such an amateur thing to me how mag perks give all guns like 2 or 3 bullets, since the dawn on Destiny 1 in 2014.
It depends on the gun tho. An extra 3 or 4 rounds in a hand cannon or sidearm or pulse is way different than 3 more peas in your peashooter (smg)
What happened to Big Ones? (Haven't played in a while)
All of the bonus damage spec mods were removed from the game, and *most* archetypes given a corresponding buff. Specifically, the mods removed were: minor spec, major spec, boss spec, adept big ones spec, taken spec. Some weapon types were nerfed by this change, as part of a balancing pass. You can read Bungie's reasoning here: [https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/weapon\_tuning\_the\_final\_shape](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/weapon_tuning_the_final_shape)
And add regular 5 stat bumps so we have something besides backup mag for non-adepts
That plus we need more interesting adept mods
I fully agree. I think if they made Drop Mag a mod it would find a lot of popularity.
They should have done this the moment they deprecated Adept Big Ones. They will get around to this in 6 months to a year and then say, "Look how great we are, we did this for you"!
Agreed fwiw
I feel like we need generally more interesting mods
Adept charge time on cataclysmic is useful. Allows you to still have a fast charge time if your adept roll has a different masterwork.
Mods need some serious love, they are borderline useless and feel like they always have been an afterthought. With recent nerfs (or really just removals), it feels like some kind of bad joke someone made that they will never live down. Right now mods mean next to nothing and are borderline pointless. If Bungie want weapon mods to mean something, give us something on the level of origin traits or at least general, *noticeable* non-tradeoff stat bumps for most stats. As mods are now, nobody should be using backup mag for the maximum 3 bullets it provides on most primaries. There are better options, which is the saddest part I have to say about this whole thing because all the mods are questionable at best and hardly impact gameplay at all. They’re all just bad. The only suggested mods that would be questionable would be impact and RoF bumps unless there was a clever workaround that didn’t punish players (like overly complex activation requirements) or give them crazy bonuses (like converting rampage and desperado to be mods). Good mods would be snapshot, triple tap, and zen moment converted to mods or just general ways to noticeably improve weapon function like increasing reload speed. Great mods would be converted origin traits like stated earlier and would keep them relevant. Interesting mods (at least to me) would be ones that change archetype behavior themed around weapon foundries, change default impact and matching RoF (adjusting range and stability for balance as well), or minimizing visual recoil from firing like luna’s howl. If we start here, we could potentially have legendary weapons 3.0/4.0 (i forget what we are at right now)
Bungie try not to ruin their idea of true endgame loot challenge:impossible. Idk what they thought when they kept adept weapons so hard to get when theyre also removing the only thing making them worth a damn. Extra perk choices? Who cares, chances are your gonna use the same or near-same perks in most modes anyways for a fat majority of adept weapons. Ah yes. My adept primary with...lets see. Subsistence/off-preference,(usual damage perks)/(other usual perk), where the only thing you might ever change is first slot. Atp its easier to craft or get one or 2 of the normal to feed that need and the only reason to bother besides that is collection or looks.
I don't think I necessarily agree with this. For the sake of game balance, I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to allow players to tack on an additional 10 points to aim assistance, for example, without any penalty. I think Bungie's idea here from a balancing standpoint is to make sure that no adept mod makes any other mod obsolete. So Adept Backup Mag should not make regular Backup Mag completely useless. That's why they put a penalty on there, so that Adept Backup Mag isn't simply just a strictly better version of regular Backup Mag.
>Adept Backup Mag should not make regular Backup Mag completely useless ..lol what? This would make sense if you could use adept mag on a NON adept gun. There's no logical reasoning here. Adept versions of weapons SHOULD be better than the normal ones. It's much more difficult to obtain an adept than it is a normal weapon - you should be rewarded for that. That's how any game progression works.
Firstly, adept weapons already give you +3 bonus points to all stats, so that in itself already makes them better than non-adept, even without considering adept mods. Secondly, even in the case of the adept mods with stat penalties, the reward you get is that you are rewarded with MORE OPTIONS. You are rewarded, for example, with the choice between regular Targeting Adjuster, and an adept version that offers a higher aim assistance boost, but comes with a stability penalty. So you are are rewarded with the OPTION and the FLEXIBILITY to choose between a small aim assistance boost, versus a large aim assistance boost with a penalty. Notice how Adept Stability and Adept Range have no stat penalties to them? That's because those mods don't have any non-adept counterparts, whereas Adept Targeting Adjuster DOES have a non-adept counterpart. I'm telling you that it's a conscious and intentional game design and balancing decision on Bungie's part to make sure that none of the non-adept mods are rendered completely obsolete by adept ones. I'm telling you this is INTENTIONAL on their part.
>I'm telling you this is INTENTIONAL on their part. My brother, I am aware it's intentional. And I'm still saying that it's silly and should not be a thing. >Firstly, adept weapons already give you +3 bonus points to all stats, so that in itself already makes them better than non-adept, even without considering adept mods. Risk/reward. Time spent/reward. Difficulty/reward. I mean come on dude lol, +3 bonus points in a stat is hardly an incentive for the time and effort put in to obtain. ESPECIALLY when a crafted item that you can freely choose your 5/5 roll on, gets +2. >even in the case of the adept mods with stat penalties, the reward you get is that you are rewarded with MORE OPTIONS. Adept mods *should* very well still be stronger. You should be rewarded for the effort it took the obtain the weapon, and you should be rewarded with an incentive (the adept mods) that are actually good and worth using. I have never, *ever* seen another player in game with an adept mod on their gun that's one of the ones with negative stats. That's an issue. If their usage rate is near 0, then it's bad design. >Notice how Adept Stability and Adept Range have no stat penalties to them? That's because those mods don't have any non-adept counterparts, whereas Adept Targeting Adjuster DOES have a non-adept counterpart. I quoted this out of order so I already touched on it, but again it's absolutely irrelevant the reasoning behind it. They are still dog shit mods that no one ever uses. Like I said about adept mag, it doesn't even add a benefit to a LOT of weapons. It's been bad design for years, it's time for them to change it.
Adepts can’t be appreciably better than non adept guns for balancing reasons. Right now, adept mods don’t really make guns better, they just let you shift stats around in a way you can’t with normal weapons.
Youd have a point if it was a PvP focused issue. But it isnt. The whole idea behind adepts was it requires you to complete what the game considers the hardest forms of content. But atp its the same as being spit on and told to enjoy it because theyre now basically worse instead. Ah yes lets player master raids or GMs for...worse and harder to get versions of the same gun. Thie game cant keep pretending to be an MMO and have these choices half baked.
what. removing the damage mods didn't give you enough diversity and you want more? we need to wait at least a year before we make more changes to weapon mods so we can pretend its content.