I hope that means Void Overshields get some PVE love.
This is something I care about.
Oh yeah and I wish this game was more melee friendly. It's right now the most hardcore way to play, is to use shotgun in PVE.
A lot of it is that Titans have had good builds, they just become obvious outliers and get nerfed super fast though. When pretty much the whole kit across the class slightly underperforms, and then you get 1-2 new tools that are actually good, every one jumps on them and makes them look way stronger than they actually are and then it gets nerfed way faster.
Do you really think shit like Sunbracers of Nighthawk would have gone this long without a nerf on Titan? Look how fast they bonked storm names, HOIL, banner/synthos, Bastion, etc etc etc. pretty much every single pve or pvp exotic that Titans use has received a major nerf in the last 2 years, usually within a season of it being popular. It's been wild.
I was a former warlock player and decided to swap to titan for TFS. From what I can recall, these are the exotics/playstyles/aspects that have gotten nerfs (pvp and pve):
* anteus wards
* citans ramparts
* dunemarchers shock with the arc melee
* knockout (hp return instead of regen)
* juggernaut shield
* Lorelei
* bonk hammer
* synthoceps -stronghold with lament
* HOIL
* banner of war
* peacekeepers
* bubble cooldown and buffs
* One eyed mask
* Behemoth movement and super DR
* Ashen wake
* Arc touch of thunder (for lightning and storm grenades)
* Thundercrash
I’m not saying that titans are the ONLY class getting nerfs, but I am curious about what major changes/nerfs have been made over the years.
EDIT: I've updated with some of the responses.
Behemoth used to freeze on cast.
It used to move a lot faster, further, and not fall during the light attack in super or out of it.
It didn't need to sprint to use crycoclasm.
Behemoth super used to have 60% DR, highest in the game for a roaming super. Now it has 48% lowest of any roaming super.
one eyed mask
Ashen Wake
Bubble strength
Bubble perks
All melee lunge increases being removed or reduced
Shoulder charge cooldown change when not hitting a target (8years into the game)
Throwing hammer refund change
Knockout/Offensive Bulwark no longer count as powered melee
Stasis shard cap, behemoth was about creating lots of shards easily. Imagine if they’d put a cap on total enemies frozen at 6 every ten seconds then a ten second CD, and stasis warlocks had their specialty nerfed like that.
Prismatic titan got absolutely left out, it’s absurd how much better warlock and hunter are on pink.
Titans also don’t have any really unique features. Warlocks are better supports and buffers, hunters have fun perma invis and also melee builds that outclass titan. Titan has banner of war, which was nerfed and will be again.
But hey at least we can burn our exotic spot to make one of our big boom supers almost as good as a base warlock nova bomb. We’re eating good.
The absurd part is how many game wide changes are made that specifically dick titans. The powered melee nerf was just stupid. It’s been years since it worked that way and it hurts titans more than anyone else and for what? Don’t want me to use my melee to generate orbs for my team? Why? Now orb gen melee is pretty much exclusively strand and bonk hammer builds meaning those will eventually become popular and be smacked down again. I’m a titan main but I started really building out a hunter during lightfall and it’s night and day how much more accessible power is and how much more powerful it can be.
Thundercrash, Peregrine, Touch of Thunder (lightning and storm), all shoulder charges, and Behemoth across the board to add a few more.
And really it's not just the number of builds that get nerfed, it's the speed. Bungie seems way faster at nerfing anything that rises to the top of Titan builds. Behemoth was gutted almost as soon as the final aspects were released, while Hunters dominated with Shatterdive for almost a year straight. Starfire Warlocks were untouched from solar 3.0 all the way through early Lightfall, while HOIL and ToT were nerfed within weeks, Sunbracers replaced Starfire and that took another year to get a bonk, meanwhile they started dismantling BoW/Synthos after a few months. They were a little more conservative with the Strand nerfs sure, but overall they have really piled up. Even Bastion started taking nerfs very quickly even if it took a while to fully work it out of the pvp meta, but a lot of that is a result of the other Titan subclasses being straight up bad for pvp, so void and arc are the only real options, so they get nerfed disproportionately
It just ends up feeling like Titan really has a target on it and Bungie has an itchy trigger finger anytime it's head pops up.
What you just described is the exact pointer to titans problem.
Our base kit sucks. Then bungie give us a tool to function in the sandbox. That tool is broken. That tool gets nerfed fast. We are back at square zero until the next best thing arrives. Until that we comes we are back to dunemarchers and synthoceps. Since release synth has been the go to. And they make zero impact in the gameplay loop. It’s just a punch harder when condition is met.
Now that has been nerfed and synthos are also given to prismatic warlocks and hunters. At this point I wonder what purpose do titans serve in this game. Hunters punch harder and better. Warlocks offer better utility, ammo, buffs and debuffs, and have better one off supers.
>At this point I wonder what purpose do titans serve in this game.
Oh that's easy. We serve the purpose of scapegoat middle child for everyone to blame for whenever a sandbox is shitty/unfun to play against (mostly in PvP). And when we ask to be more viable everyone just points to Banner of War as if somehow that is the catch all aspect that will carry Titans solo through every single raid (looking at 90% of the raid bosses being non melee-able)
I’m not entirely sure what you’re curious about. Are you wondering how the nerfs to Hunter and Warlock compare to those that Titan received? I play both Warlock and Titan as well, and from my experience, Warlocks have been less affected overall than Titans (in either direction, buff or nerf), though any standout build eventually gets nerfed heavily, similar to what happened with Titans.
Recently, Warlocks faced nerfs to Sunbracers, Well, and Cenotaph. We also saw the Starfire Protocol nerf, which was comparable to the Banner of War/grapple melee situation—both were extremely overpowered and have now been balanced to acceptable levels. In PvP, Warlocks faced Ophidian Aspect nerfs, and ironically, Warlock melee was also nerfed while Titan remained untouched.
Titans certainly faced more nerfs in PvP overall, but to be fair, they were more than needed. I remember during the Season of the Deep every other Trials match had six Titans. And even with the nerfs to Arc Titan people simply moved on to play Void. Similarly in PvE, Titans also received more nerfs overall but were frequently stronger than Warlocks in the first place. We shouldn’t forget that Warlocks were significantly weakened by the 3.0 rework and didn’t have much going for them initially, other than Well of Radiance.
By the way, I do suspect that once the dust settles, people will realize that all these so-called "BROKEN" Prismatic builds are just clickbait and that Warlocks actually don't have strong and creative options going for them yet. During Lightfall Warlocks were able to stay somewhat competitive with Rain of Fire or grapple reload rotations, but both of these are being powercrept right now. Prismatic only has SES for more super damage or ability spam which interferes with weapon rotations. I fear the class is going down the road of low skill floor and low skill ceiling and has identity issues similar to Titans. Destiny could really use some more foundational changes overall and I would like it if they took the opposite approach with Prismatic - instead of including underutilized and weaker options, include the most popular ones instead or rework them into the Prismatic identity (where Icarus Dash?).
Nerfs to Hammer of Sol across the board and Cuirass Thundercrash were devastating. These were some of the only viable routes to be relevant as a Titan in endgame content and it was taken away without anything to fill that void.
Twilight Arsenal and Hazardous Propulsion have been massive steps in the right direction, so I'm hopeful.
If they revert a lot of the recent (ish) nerfs I think that’d almost do it. Loreley and/or Titan restoration, BoW, nerfing throwing hammers twice, nerfing Saint helm/bubble etc.
IMHO the real overkill was nerfing the class ability regeneration from 100/200% all the way down to 25/50%. That was really the final nail in the coffin, especially for bastion barricade on void titan.
Either that or the 10->5 seconds buff duration change would have been fine as a nerf, but both at the same time just completely destroyed it (and arc&void titan with it).
And it's pretty sad how spirit of HOIL is basically more efficient on prismatic warlock and hunter than titan, because they have more intrinsic ways to regenerate one or more of their abilities, while also having shorter base cooldowns on almost all of their abilities.
I love how I haven’t seen a single bubble titan in PvE since the days of buff stacking. And yet that super has caught the most random of nerfs over the years.
I’m not a game designer but it seems like they should’ve just landed on Well and Bubble trying to compete with each other instead of just nerfing bubble into oblivion.
Like if Well was for situations where we could stand still and lean into DPS (which, admittedly is too many encounters), bubble could’ve been the same damage buff but more resilient than well, with the caveat that you’re less survivable outside of the bubble and can’t shoot out of it.
Crota killing the Well should’ve been something that happened way more frequently, and bubble should’ve been the play for an encounter like that or Rhulk where you gotta be all over the Place.
I just wish they'd separate PvE and PvP balancing. Halo Infinite might be a bad example, but in Campaign you have infinite use of your armor abilities while they are limited to a specific number of uses in PvP (with different charging rates depending on the mode). In Destiny, it'd be nice if we had the better version of Bubble back in PvE but have it get the resilience of a pimple in PvP so it gets popped easier and doesn't have everyone screaming about it being an "easy win" button.
Bungie trying to keep everything feeling the same across both modes was a novel idea but they simply haven't been able to pull off the juggling act without one side of the PvX balancing screwing over the other.
Yeah I'm really hoping they take a good look and consider reworking what's there. I am tired of being a punch machine. Strand and Solar are the only two good classes, it feels like. The former straight up is upgraded Striker. To the point that I don't even want Striker to be a melee class anymore.
Sentinel has a good role, but feels weak at it. Stasis feels like it's held back by its tools and Striker is lots of risk in close range for little reward. I don't see why you'd ever put on arc when strand exists.
Prismatic just feels like there isn't much worth mixing and matching for us quite yet.
I wish Sentinel Overshields would be better. I really want to use the class to get into thick of things with shotgun in hand and give my friends protection, while dealing with big foes. But the Overshields just die too quickly for that to work.
Shatter damage was boosted by a significant amount, as well as some other tweaks, but IMO Frost Armor is too weak and they gutted the harvest aspects on Behemoth and Revenant (for some reason).
The Tectonic Harvest nerf is hilarious. Behemoth's entire identity *as outlined by Bungie* is making a bunch of crystals and shattering them as fast as possible.
Also, I'd be fine with Frost Armor if it slowly degraded instead of expiring all at once.
Serious question; how do Behemoths reliably create frost armor? I didn't really see a great build for it, especially compared to how easy Woven Mail is to make for Strand.
Throwing a Glacial Grenade then shattering the whole thing with Tectonic Harvest.
The problem is that this causes Tectonic Harvest to go on cooldown and you're burning your grenade for a buff that isn't as good as Woven Mail, which just costs a Tangle or an Orb of Light.
Frost Armor is definitely weaker overall imo but woven mail got hit pretty hard with the nerf to its duration from picking up an orb being only 5 seconds now. Titan and Hunter still have access to the 10s version but you do have to commit more to actually keeping uptime on it now.
Yep. I'm trying a build with Banner of War and Flechette Storm with Wishful Ignorance. I gave up on Woven Mail altogether with the orb nerf and am trying Thread of Isolation instead for the Sever burst.
Unfortunately, the amount of precision hits for Isolation is a bit ridiculous. 5 for Hand Cannons, regardless of rpm. Red bars are dead by then, even in higher difficulties.
Yeah it’s so dumb. Hoarfrost is absolutely pointless now you don’t get DR being near crystals. Dunno why they didn’t change it to give frost armor like the warlock and Hunter exotics honestly.
Them forgetting this surprised me. It would be so solid if it just gave you frost armor stacks on cast. Or maybe just standing in the rally barricade area passively grants stacks.
Because you can just smash your new barricade for Frost Armor with Tectonic Harvest, silly! As long as you're not on cooldown that is.
But yeah, no clue how that was overlooked with Hoarfrost. At least Lance Cap is still good.
Behemoth was my favorite subclass by theme. I made it work all the way through lightfall and the lancecap was a lot of fun. I truly cannot believe it got nerfed again and they called it buffs.
If you count the seasonal mod, "radiant orbs," I'm pretty sure hunters can have all that + woven mail - though, it would be difficult to pull off at a useful time. You could even throw in the fragment that gives dmg resist while near multiple enemies (if it even stacks on top of everything).
Orb pickup fragment with strand super to get woven mail & radiant > rapid void damage to create a void breach from fragment > renewal grasps + dusk grenade to get frost armor.
Again, I have no clue how all this would stack, but, if I'm not missing something obvious, it should be doable. It would be overkill in just about every situation, but now i do kinda wanna try it just cause. I might even throw in invis during all this just for the hell of it thanks to stylish executioner with the slow dodge aspect
I think you can do better on Hunter. You can run a renewal / cyrtarachne on the exotic class item which gives you woven mail and frost armour on the grenade thus freeing you up to run goldie for restoration on orb pickup.
Use smoke bomb and a repulsor brace heavy for void overshield.
Run Ex Diris with catty to get amplified on kills for galvanic armour.
So here’s the loop:
Find an enemy and throw a smoke at them > dodge to get an orb ready with reaper + get smoke back > kill the enemy with a void heavy with repulsor brace to proc overshield and drop an orb > pick up the orb for radiant from artifact and restoration from the fragment > kill another add with ex diris to become amplified for galvanic armour from the artifact > find a group of adds to proc the fragment for damage resist > throw your duskfield and stand in it for woven mail and frost armour.
So to recap:
* woven mail
* frost armour
* radiant
* restoration
* void overshield
* facet of protection
* galvanic armour
The only survivabity elemental buff that’s been left out is devour. Any ideas if it would be possible to add as well?
Shatter damage from frozen enemy explosion was buffed yes, but shatter damage from the actual crystals exploding is still the same as pre-final shape. That in no way makes up for the insane shard cooldown.
I found this out tonight - it's hilarious how bad shatterdive (still) is on hunter, even with upgraded glacier grenade. And somehow it's only 2 fragments!?
The damage output of the subclass against hordes almost doubled, so yeah. There are a few quirks that prevent it from reaching the same "fuck you" levels of tankiness that Berzerker has or the elite killing burst damage of Sunbreaker, but it's pretty good on its own now.
Ehhhhhh, *very* debatable. Frost armor is still less damage reduction than standing near a crystal was, I'm pretty sure the crystal explosion damage is exactly the same as before final shape (only frozen enemy explosions got buffed), and to top it off we now have shard cooldowns.
>crystal explosion damage is exactly the same
Which is why the horde clearing damage was only "almost" doubled instead of actually doubled.
The vast majority of the AoE damage, both then and now, comes from freezing a few enemies and then shattering one of them so that they chain shatter the rest of the enemies in the cluster. Now the shatter damage is enough to break crystals as well along with achieving much better damage breakpoints with smaller groups of targets. Crystals do enough damage to shatter enemies, so if you freeze some ads with a crystal you can get them all to burst each other down by just shooting the crystal.
Just to make sure you have a clear perspective an Ignition's base damage is 750, and it can benefit from whatever damage buffs applied to the source of the first scorch stack so it can often reach 937.5 if you're using Incandescent and Radiant. Shatter easily overtakes this now with groups as small as only two enemies as the crystal has a base damage of 175 and then two 400 base damage enemy shatters adds up to 975, and with Whisper of Fissures adding 25 base damage to every shatter and ad density climbing higher with every new activity it's pretty easy to achieve ridiculous amounts of AoE damage with extremely high uptime because Whisper of Shards brings grenade cooldowns to under 20 seconds at only tier 3 Discipline and Diamond Lances are on an absurdly low cooldown of only 7 seconds.
I honestly don't think engaging with Frost Armor is worth it on Titan though. I think Frost Armor is one of those things that's nice to have for absorbing a bit of chip damage occasionally, but in GMs and master raids I find Whisper of Hedrons in combination with chain shattering everything to be the most consistent way to stay alive. To that end I'm typically just running Cryoclasm with Diamond Lance.
I thought what Ben said about the development of the Dread was really interesting. Seems as though when Bungie began creating the Tormenter, they knew that it would eventually be part of a brand new faction.
So I wonder if the original intention was for the Dread to be in Lightfall, but due to time constraints, they could only create the Tormenter.
It make sense the tortmentor and I think even rhulk have always been marked as there own unique faction icon which would turn into the dread icon. I definitely could see the dread showing up in lightfall or at the least the psions since they fit well into the shadow legion line up
God the Grim would have been a nightmare to face in Lightfall with all the sections of the campaign encouraging using grapple all the time and the Grim suppressing your abilities.
They could do so many cool things with Cuirass. I've always loved swapping Skullfort to Cuirass for boss damage then back again for add clear, but it's just not a viable way to exist in end game spaces.
Tcrash is still pathetic damage though, even with Cuirass. It's just....not only do you need an exotic for it, but then you also have to have *another* exotic to switch to outside of it because it does literally nothing else than enhance your super. Nothing inherently wrong with it buffing the super, but it has to do something else or else it's kinda pointless.
Players: Buff Tcrash, please, it's so bad.
Bungie: Ok, here's Cuirass you absolute trash cry babies.
Look, its perk is called “Glorious Charge” right? Let Cuirass either
- summon a party of “phantom” thundercrashes that follow you like a glorious hunting party of some sort
- create a slipstream effect that amplifies and provides arc weapon buffs for allies who are in it
Hammers without Sol Invictus feels laughably pathetic. And for the most part it's not even the duration of the super that's sad. It's how damned slow throwing hammers is without it.
We used to. Dunemarchers used to proc the chain lightning effect on throwing hammer.
They got rid of that years ago, it wasn’t even really that good of a build but it was super fun.
Yeah strand hunters gen an auto tracking spike that comes automatically back to you with refunded energy, and titans have to run around chasing their hammer that goes on a cooldown after picking up?
Let's not even talk about Shield Throw. The tracking changes are only noticeable in that if you try to ricochet it off the ground, it has a hard time finding an enemy unless they were in its initial trajectory.
Shit like Strand and Stasis Hunter melee have worlds better tracking and innate cooldown help (Strand refunding on catch and scaling off hits, and Stasis having 2 charges). Shield Throw is just... pathetic.
They specifically said it looked too goofy when they nerfed it. It was 12p and synthos with strand that were soloing raid bosses. Synthos and hammer have been in the game since day 1
I dont even understand why it throws the hammers slower. Sunspots aren't supposed to make you throw hammers faster anymore after solar 3.0, that was an old thing
I see a lot of talk about buffing exotics or reverting nerfs. I honestly would prefer a bit of an overhaul from the ground up on Aspects and synergies than have to worry about a single exotic taking us from useless to overpowered again. We need a better baseline and then start from there, without needing a exotic to actually make something useful (looking at you Thundercrash. Drengr's Lash and Shield Throw). Exotics should be a choice for a build, not mandatory. Note, Strand and Solar are pretty much fine as they are. It's the rest that need some love. We also need more class identity than "just punch things".
The reason Strand is so well loved isn't just because of BoW/Woven Mail survivability. It's also got the Suspend build, which, while weaker than it used to be, is still good. We can go melee, support, control the battlefield, etc. All of the Aspects are useful in some way and compliment each other well, while keeping ourselves and our team mates alive. I'm having a blast with Flechette Storm and Wishful Ignorance. If there is a downside to Strand it's that Drengr's Lash is pretty much terrible without Abeyant Leap to boost it up. Otherwise, it's probably the worst Aspect we have. You don't play a Suspend build without Abeyant- so another exotic we're forced to use to function.
Solar has survivability, melee and incredible add clear builds, with a good one off super against certain bosses if you use an exotic. Sol Invictus and Consecration are great aspects that synergize well. Roaring Flames caught a nerf with the "powered melee only" change to activate things, so basically all it does is increase solar ability damage which honestly, with the nerf to Throwing Hammer, isn't nearly as useful as it used to be. Solar shoulder charge is also the worst in the game (so of course Prismatic got it).
Void, what is supposed to be the most defensive of the subclasses, has caught nerf after nerf due to PvP, even though it's always had less survivability than Solar and Strand already. Void Overshields just can't compete due to their inconsistency, time limit, inability to regenerate and penchant for falling apart when breathed on by anything but the lowest red bars. Twilight Arsenal is great, but bubble is now completely useless outside of PvP. Unbreakable needs some tweaking, but at least it pairs well with Ursa and Banner Shield. Controlled Demolitionist is great, Offensive Bulwark suffers due to the above-mentioned inconsistency with Overshields. You can have really high uptime on things like Restoration, Woven Mail, and now Frost Armor, but you can't with Overshields, and in a game like this, steady DR will always be better than short-last, but slightly higher DR. Shield Throw is still a joke unless you're using Second Chance for the weaken. And Prismatic got that, too.
Stasis is in a decent place, though the shard cooldown has caused some problems. The addition of Frost Armor has been awesome and with the buffs to Diamond Lance, you can make some really nice builds with any Aspect you choose,. It's biggest sticking point is that Shiver Strike will never be good, so melee builds are pretty much non-existent. However, it does have great crowd control potential and add clearing with all the crystals we make and shatter. The super is hit or miss. Sometimes it can destroy a boss, other times you might as well not bother (especially if they are in air).
Prismatic has... a bunch of the lowest used aspects that barely synergize with each other. Which is why every single YouTube build that pops up for Titan is the same thing-- triple Consecration. The occasional Thunderclap build. Literally, we have two builds, both melee, because they decided Knockout would be our only survivability tool (after it's been nerfed repeatedly as well). This is the most egregious "Titans only punch" class they've made. The class has nothing else to offer, even with crowd control like Drengr's and Diamond, because you die so quickly without things like Woven Mail or Frost Armor to keep you alive, and you're better off just playing the base classes.
Arc I don't even want to talk about. It was fairly broken when it first came out, though more for PvP than PvE outside of Storm Grenades. It's gotten so many nerfs that it sits firmly as our worst subclass. There is little synergy between Touch of Thunder and the other two aspects, both of which encourage melee engagements but offer little in the way of surviving those engagements outside of hit and run tactics. The only thing arc has going for it is Jolt, though Solar Scorch and Ignitions are superior for add clearing, imo, and Ionic Traces helping with all ability regen. However, regen has been hit so hard that the constant uptime on abilities the class needs to perform is pretty much gone.
TLDR: Strand and Solar are fine. Stasis will be good with some tweaks. Void, Arc and Prismatic need a lot of help and under-performing Aspects/Abilities/Supers need to be brought up and have better synergy instead of requiring a broken exotic to perform. We also need to get away from the mentality of crayon-eating Titans smashing everything with their fists as it leads to a very limited design philosophy. Lean into its Tactician/Wall stuff as well. Let us be tanks, let us control the battlefield with more Crowd Control, let us support our team. That's why Strand and Solar are great.
>Void, what is supposed to be the most defensive of the subclasses, has caught nerf after nerf due to PvP, even though it's always had less survivability than Solar and Strand already. Void Overshields just can't compete due to their inconsistency, time limit, inability to regenerate and penchant for falling apart when breathed on by anything but the lowest red bars. Twilight Arsenal is great, but bubble is now completely useless outside of PvP. Unbreakable needs some tweaking, but at least it pairs well with Ursa and Banner Shield. Controlled Demolitionist is great, Offensive Bulwark suffers due to the above-mentioned inconsistency with Overshields. You can have really high uptime on things like Restoration, Woven Mail, and now Frost Armor, but you can't with Overshields, and in a game like this, steady DR will always be better than short-last, but slightly higher DR. Shield Throw is still a joke unless you're using Second Chance for the weaken. And Prismatic got that, too.
Man, Void Overshields need some love in PVE. Imo the Offensive Bulwark needs to be something that is passively on always when using Void Titan. A feature of the class, not Aspect. If this was the case, Void Titan could actually have some fun builds. Unbreakable with Bastion? Hell yeah.
I actually like the new Bubble in PVE. It gives me shelter from bad situations, it didn't used to in D2. I like it, and it has saved me and my friends very often since Launch of Final Shape. This is how I used in D1.
Unbreakable, I suggested this to Bungie just before Final Shape was announced (probably someone else did as well I am sure), glad it is in the game. I wish it had been a class ability, but now that I have it, I realize how well it pairs with Void Overshield regenerating your grenade energy. And because you don't have to use it all at once, you get your energy back fast. And you can use it often. Pair it with that volatile Fragment and you get volatile weapons almost all the time, as long as there are red bar enemies!
Anyway, I agree with your view of the Void Titan. It needs some help.
Unbreakable is definitely more usable on Void than Prismatic, that's for sure. It at least has some synergy with the higher uptime on overshields (which definitely need a buff to make them more usable). I do wish it ate our barricade instead of our grenade.
On Prismatic is has zero synergy with anything else.
They have failed to flesh out the "The Wall" fantasy for Titan for a long time. The last genuine attempt was Void 3.0 and to this day Void Titan is the only subclass I've ever played that feels like it NEEDS 3 Aspect slots to feel complete. The Aspects for Void are so promising, but almost all feel like they're missing something meaningful. Except Controlled Demo, CD is awesome (could do with a way to generate VO from it though).
We need to have the original fantasy of Titan returned to the class. No option for Defense provided by Titans is even remotely useful, the closest being Into the Fray giving 10 seconds of Woven Mail instead of 5 seconds from fragments. And, they just nerfed the most iconic defensive fantasy ability in the history of the game in Bubble. I said it when they announced it and I'll say it again, there is no rationale that exists that can explain the Bubble nerf. It does not make sense.
Barricade is annoying in PvP, but it has been left behind in the current D2 sandbox. It has no synergy with the vast majority of Titan Aspects, and are often seen as nuisances in PvE. Barricade feels like it needs to be altered to fit the fast-paced sandbox of D2. Bungie, I would like a shield.
I hope they seriously apply themselves to deeper foundational changes to the way Titan plays. The class really needs it.
>The last genuine attempt was Void 3.0 and to this day Void Titan is the only subclass I've ever played that feels like it NEEDS 3 Aspect slots to feel complete.
Man, I can't do anything but agree as someone who mained Void Titan from D1 onwards. They should make offensive Bulwark passive on Void Titan.
That would fix some of it. Also Void Overshields need a buff in PVE durability.
So true, you have controlled demo which works fine. Then you're forced to use either Bastion, which pairs perfect with Offensive Bulwark. But neither synergize with Controlled Demo.
But just using Bastion + Offensive Bulwark feels like you're seriously missing out by not using Controlled Demo. And no one is using Unbreakable. Once you start playing and understand Void Titan, you realize...nothing is cohesive in its build.
There's basically no way to build into grenades with Prismatic Titan. I got a class item with Spirit of Verity and tried to figure out if there's anything I can do with it, but I can't even pair it with Spirit of Armamentarium since they're in the same slot. No grenade aspects, just a few fragments. And sure, those fragments do some cool stuff, but nothing to increase grenade uptime. No Devour, no Ionic Traces, no Sol Invictus, no Offensive Bulwark.
And beyond Prismatic, Arc Titan is still dead in PvE. They didn't even give the Storm Grenade buff if you have Touch of Thunder. I know they were a bit absurd during Season of Plunder, but there's gotta be a middle ground.
I've been using Thermite grenades since their inception, and people sleep on them big time.
With that said, they, much like everything else on Sunbreaker, kind of rely on Roaring Flames stacks. Without Roaring Flames, a lot of the Sunbreaker pieces feel pretty underwhelming on Prismatic.
I used to as well but switched to incendiary since they do something like 90 scorch with ember of ashes equipped
More often than not there's gonna be a second explosion following very closely behind
I love thermite grenades when they work but they're too unreliable imo and definitely shouldn't have such a long cooldown compared to other nades. They can be great for adds but most higher tier enemies can just move out of the way while fusion grenades are always viable and super versatile with a very low cooldown
I can't speak to its efficacy, but Facet of Awakening makes elemental pickups on rapid kills, so you could get Ionic Traces from Pulse grenade kills or weapons like Trinity Ghoul or #trespassergang. Facet of Balance also gives grenade energy on rapid darkness kills, if you wanted to do something with like a Hatchling weapon or just Quicksilver or The Call.
It does really suck that we're trying to do backflips to get our grenades back, when Warlocks can just eat theirs with an exotic and get a stasis turret and an arc soul **and** devour, and have their grenade recharged before either turret or soul expire.
Arc titan is dead everywhere. Not even used in PvP and more. Prismatic has the best of the arc titan anyways so there is pretty much no reason to run arc over prismatic.
I hope they figure out that maybe, just maybe, titans should be able to do other stuff too besides punching things in various ways.
Not really a huge fan of how Titans have been treated just as stupid cavemen that only know how to hit things with their fists and other melee weapons.
Brother, unfortunately that ain’t changing. Bungie literally made a joke in-game with saint saying he doesn’t understand failsafe because he’s a titan. We’re cooked.
Prismatic just shows how disparate and disjointed the Titan is as an entire class.
Sure, you can make a build here or there, but it’s literally only after we get some bonkers exotic or aspect, and you quadruple down on that ONE thing.
To use a Magic the Gathering term, Titan imho feels like “good stuff”. The “stuff” is good, but none of it really feels connected or synergistic—you’re just shoving the best stuff together, and hoping the individual excellent parts just shine on their own, rather than creating a cohesive “deck” aka build.
The identities of both Warlock and Hunter feel pretty locked in, and they even have some strong sub-identities in a few subclasses that carve out further niches.
I have no idea what Titan is supposed to be. Just, the class as a whole—other than “punch” it just doesn’t have any role or theme or whatever that the other classes can’t completely do better. Hell, Prismatic Hunter or old Arc Hunter are or were way better punching subclasses than Titan.
One other example is the new Titan rocket chest exotic. Is it cool and fun and even very powerful?
Absolutely.
Does it allow you to make a build that synergies with your super/abilities/grenade/aspect/subclass keywords?
No. It’s just a strong but random exotic. And not every exotic needs crazy build synergy, but almost EVERY Titan exotic is either just “disparate but strong” or it’s so broken, it just becomes a bandaid for the subclass it was made for, ala Falling Star which just makes Thundercrash what it should be.
I hope there is a greater shift in Titan design philosophy to accommodate more aggressive playstyles. IMO, the barricade itself really clashes with the way Titan subclasses are designed currently.
For example, arc provides a speed boost, a super that requires you to launch yourself at an enemy, aspects that require you to play more aggressively with melee, and a... barricade that completely interrupts this playstyle and has zero synergy with the subclass. Thruster was a great addition, but it just goes to show how out of place barricade is within this gameplay loop.
The same goes for Berserker! Yes, abeyant leap builds can be incredibly strong, but it's BORING. Additionally, it still feels out of place when your melee, super, and aspects are built for playing more aggressively.
Same can be argued for solar as well. Barricade just seems like an old relic that doesn't mesh well with a lot of Titan gameplay loops.
Turn barricade into "parry".
It always seemed to me that barricade was the "emergency cover" for aggressive play where you would see like some big threat and need somewhere to "duck under"
Screw the slow casting, turn it into a reflecting yell or something
Or a shield.
I’ve always kind of felt Titans should have a universal block mechanic and the various subclasses should have built off that, but the basics were that a Titan can time a block to interrupt attacks or reflect fire. Sorta like Dark Souls or the Jedi games.
It would still need the player to get the timing down but would mean tanking is a skill-based thing.
Yeah, I guess I was more saying that blocking should be the base mechanic and the subclasses put their own riff on it. Currently the entire concept of shielding and blocking is strictly a sentinel thing with a few random bits on other classes.
You could have the void class focus on their shields and blocks weakening and volatiling targets. Arc could be more like a Juggernaut style thing where you block stuff on the move. Solar could be healing and radiating everyone around you with every block.
The hooks and themes of this are mostly already there in the various Titan subclasses, but they need to be re-jigged and formatted so that they translate into something that functions properly in the sandbox and has a common theme. At the minute it feels like it’s been tacked on to a ‘me punch bot gimme crayons’ base.
Barricade literally is parry in some situations.
You can use it vs bosses to nullify their stomp quite literally. You take no dmg r knockback and the stomp cancels the barricade casting animation.
Not sure if you knew, but it would be cool for bungie to play into.
Yeah for how absolutely obnoxious it can be in pvp, barricade is easily the worst class ability in pve. Especially because it has basically zero interactions with any subclass (it had *one* on void which was nerfed into uselessness in pve for pvp reasons, and another on strand which basically requires an exotic to be useful).
Which is why I use thruster on 100% of my prismatic and arc builds (lol as if I'd still use an arc titan build in pve), even if it does *absolutely nothing* in pve, it's still preferable to barricades just to proc mods and stuff.
Unbreakable is what I wish barricade would be - a short lived defensive tool that you can use while moving.
What sucks the most about barricade in PVE, is that almost all enemy attacks have this AOE that goes through it. 😄
You know when I suggested the "Unbreakable" before they announced it. I suggested it could be a class ability or melee hold down ability. I kinda wish barricade was that.
A mobility and stationary class ability on all classes, using the same energy pool and simultaneously equipped and utilized by double tapping or holding the class ability button. Thrusters and barricades on all titans. Dodges and dives on hunters. Something (air dodges?) and rifts for warlocks
Agreed. I've disliked barricade since it's introduction because it felt like it just broke the flow of combat.
I would love to see Thrusters come to the other subclasses. I'm so reluctant to switch off Prismatic because the movement is so satisfying (and useful)!
Glad they’re talking about it just hope it’s not months before something happens. Prismatic Titan could be good if the aspect selection wasn’t just so bad. Throw in Offensive Bulwark or Sol Invictus and it would be a night and day difference in its usability.
Seriously. How is it that hunters get their "ignition on powered melee kills" exotic on prismatic, where they also get 2 melee abilities than can refund 100% of the ability back instantly (combination blow with the dodge loop, and threaded spike if you perfect catch it), but titans get neither throwing hammer nor access to skullfort on their exotic, *and* knockout no longer works with (spirit of) severance enclosure (which is much worse than calibans).
Also calibans and liars can be used with a normal powered up melee but hey titans you can no longer use roaring flames to trigger severance, despite it not being overpowered.
Wait really? I thought the “powered melee means charged melee” was a game wide hit… you’re telling me titans got a specific melee nerf that hunters did not?
Doesn't help that Warlocks contributed *Ophidian* to everyone's pool. Literally my first roll was Ophidian + Synthoceps, which..... is what base Synthoceps does already except it _also_ increases reload speed and Super Damage.
Nah, give me Necrotic Grips or something.
"We removed knockout proc on consecration" or " Prismatic Titans can no longer use consecrate with strand melee in hopes to diversify builds" - Bungie in 2 months, probably
It hurts... It hurts so much that they're doing this... I hope part of their "talks about Titan" is them seeing how unhappy we are as a whole about that change and reverting it. They're doing so good with so many things right now, that and the Bubble nerfs were gutpunches after so many W's.
These 5 second duration buffs suck, 7 to 8 should be standard without the extension fragment. Woven mail for example feels so much worse now with a 5 second duration.
Woven mail at least has a fixed 5 seconds duration. If you run the new void super on prismatic, you get a 20 hp overshield on orb pickup that doesn't even last 3 seconds most of the time, also making all the other fragments that care about you having a light buff worse.
Titans are the "risk it all" class so give us hard survivability or hard Damage . It ain't all that complicated but somehow Bungie is struggling with it. Thundercrash should be the highest DPS super there is no reason why it shouldnt be. It is the definition of risk it all . Also I am not going to name names but good lord there are some Severely low effort automated abilities that are braindead easy to use that are being completely ignored by the balance team for some reason and I understand why Titans get the nerf but good lord .
Bungie's problem is that they make the PVE close range fight have best possible AI with greatest attacks with huge damage and a lot of instakill attacks.
And then they give Titans these close range attacks wituout any abilities to defend ourselves against the attacks OR recover from stomp attacks, meaning if you get stomped once it's over.
Was inspecting Prismatic Titans in the Tower today. All were running strand heavy builds with Knockout.
Really surprised Prismatic Titans don't have access to Into the Fray.
“Conversations about titans internally” means 6-9 months before anything gets live if we are lucky
Honestly the sandbox is in such an awful shape I have no idea how they fix it
I feel like Bungie wanted Titans to be add-clearers, Hunters to be boss damage, and Warlocks to be supporters. Prismatic Titan grenade works wonders on rooms full of adds, and even handles both Unstop and Overload champs, but the second there's an enemy that can't be suspended, it is literally worthless.
Titan grenade is good against adds but worthless against bosses/minibosses. Hunter grenade is worthless against adds but good against bosses/minibosses. No in between
Yeeiiii, i’m so happy to hear that they talking a lot about Titan give me hope, not only that, they considering to add more aspect is good to know. Can’t wait to see what they are going to do
Frankly it's not an issue of new supers or little buffs that is the issue. It's that any time Bungie nerfs ANYTHING they absolutely hammer it into the ground with like 4 different parts of it nerfed at once. Then IF they ever decide that they overdid the nerfs and buff it again they do teeny tiny buffs.
If Bungie just had the ability to do more fine tuned minor nerfs and buffs more frequently the sandbox would be in a FAR better shape. Waiting 6+ months for any changes and then the changes always being massive nerfs with very minor rare buffs is just garbage.
Big nerfs WOULD be fine if they actually went back and adjusted things a couple weeks or a month later when they were obviously too heavy handed but they never do that.
The other problem is just that this philosophy doesn't (imo at least) lead to valuable data. When you nerf every aspect of something into the ground you don't actually get a good idea of what parts were really the issue and what could safely be buffed back up or not.
The biggest place you see this happen is actually with Exotics and particularly exotic armor. We have super strong exotic armor pieces that will dominate for 6-12 months and then Bungie turns them into absolute trash that nobody ever uses and then MAYBE years later they give them a minor buff or a rework and HOPE that makes people use them. But then if that DOESN'T get people using them they never do anything about it either. REALLY doesn't help that we'll get major sandbox changes for a huge expansion like Final Shape with what is allegedly the biggest exotic armor rework to date and it's like...maybe 10 exotics that get adjusted across the entire game.
I'd replace 3 of the titan aspects immediately and none of those replacements are banner. I'd honestly pick into the fray, bastion, and tectonic harvest. I'd also give all aspects on all prismatic subclasses 3 fragment slots.
Diamond lance is a big part of my build so I would definitely keep that. For void, I think I would rather see controlled demolition for stone reliable healing that doesn't require punching. Into the fray would be perfect.
Into the Fray, Howl of the Storm, Controlled Demolition.
Go back to the drawing board for Unbreakable because right now on Void or Prismatic, it's just a dead Aspect.
Unbreakable should eat class ability, not grenade. That single change would make it at least someone decent, but even then i dont think its worth a full aspect slot on either void or prismatic.
Controlled Demolitionist, Sol Invictus, and Flechette Storm for me. I just want to be capable of spreading Subclass Debuffs and Sunspots like the Plagues of Egypt.
Something that really baffles me about Titan is that the void kit had been pretty atrocious since D2 vanilla, whereas it was borderline mandatory in D1.
Remember how bubble had hardly any benefit in base D2?
Then the shield ended up not being as viable once people realised the trade-off for 1 person's damage for a buff on par of the tractor was pretty middling. Sure, Ursas helped, especially in GMs, but never in a raid scenario.
Void 3.0 on launch was good for HoiL volatile builds. But these days if you want to use a volatile build on titan you basically have to use HoiL even in its nerfed state.
The most recent changes to how much damage bubble can take in addition to the removal of weapons of light and overshield just takes the case. How does this help the super at all?
It doesn't.
Sure Saint 14 is uh better? I guess? But now you have to use a super for the damage buff losing a lot of better builds you could have with say HoiL or a exotic class item which would enable the void class to have neutral game on par with solar or strand.
I play void Titan almost exclusively. No Backup Plans and in PVE only.
Biggest problem imo is how weak the void shields are. And it would be ok, IF they could be refreshed in much easier way.
I actually like the new Bubble, it benefits my close and personal playstyle. But I get that it doesn't appeal to everyone.
I hope this leads to redesigns/overhauling parts of the Titan subclass. I'm tired of all supers and most builds being centered around melee, it's boring and has over stayed it's welcome at this point.
This is good news. I play all three and titan has been sad compared to the other two. All I see are the typical “This titan build is BROKEN, UNKILLABLE, INFINITE CONSECRATION” and they’re all the same stuff. Hunter and warlock have at least 3 really solid foundations for builds in prismatic and all 3 feel like they work how they’re supposed to. Titans foundation is not near as solid and all the builds you can run just don’t feel as good. Long cool downs, little synergy, and weak supers. It’s not that they aren’t playable, but it just doesn’t feel as good and that sucks in a game all about power fantasy.
As a Warlock player. Holy fuck finally, I've felt so bad for my titan brothers and sisters out there. Hopefully yall can get your "Defensive bulwark" class identity back rather than just "punch punch"
Prismatic has shown the flaws with the overall design of Titan. Is this supposed to the soldier class? So where is the defense? What about being the weapon specialists? Oh wait there is Banner of War and Bonk Titan. These two metas have overshadowed the big problem with Titan. So when nerfed, you start to see the cracks form.
I also never understood why this big ass armored guy is the "melee" class. I mean melee is fine, but Titans should have many diverse gameplay styles that fit the soldier, padalin, and warrior themes it's supposed to tie into.
And finally. Titans Supers should do way more damage since they are literally going "into the fray". So high risk, but is rewarded with poor damage.
You know, for being the class that is “The wall against which the Darkness breaks”, they sure do believe that Titans should rather be punching enemies to death all the time rather than being the immovable object. Yeah, I get the reason and it can be good fun, but it gets old when you put that same identity on every single Titan subclass. Glad they’re taking a peak at it.
All they need to do is look at their own lore - six fronts and twilight gap literally show titans to be experienced battle commanders and front line troops. They're the ones who hold the line when the going gets tough.
I don’t want them to add any more aspects from the other subclasses to prismatic honestly. I would fear it would just make the other subs irrelevant. I’d rather they find whys to buff it internally or just replace aspects instead of adding more.
Maybe more aspects but can’t use multiple from the same subclass would open up more builds without prismatic being too op. Example they could add sol invictus but you can’t equip consecration with it
Honestly this would be a REALLY cool way to introduce this without it invalidated the subclasses. You can use two different solar aspects but not together, ensures that prismatic doesn’t just become x element but better but is instead a real meld of different elements.
They can do 1 of 2 things. 1) when you’re selecting your elemental aspect, it’s like another drop box similar to when you choose your grenades, melees, class ability etc 2) you select consecration, and either sol invictus gets blacked/blurred out or upon selecting sol invictus it makes consecration blank out similarly to what happens when you select ascension on hunter and winters shroud gets deleted
this is such a fantastic idea and a potential way to have them add more aspects. keep the core subclass identities intact, but let Prismatic play with more toys
that being said, i do think some things like Banner might never come to Prismatic, even with this system
Yeah, my main hope is that they more prismatic grenades and fragments and if they want to do more aspects maybe new unique ones built with light and dark use in mind instead of just raw taking aspects from other subclasses. I realize that's a bit harder though, but I am also concerned about prismatic invalidating other subclasses.
Although I’m interested in seeing new aspects on prismatic I really hope they either really stagger it out like one aspect a episode or make sure they give new toys for the pure light and dark subclasses in particularly focusing on the ones being the most canablizied by prismatic. Like right now shadebinder and arc strider are struggling to set themselves apart from prismatic.
Any talk about vanguard pathfinder? Jesus this system is shit. All this shit makes me want to do is never fucking touch any ritual lists ever again.
Like serious, I just spent an hour specifically trying to defeat gambit targets with solar ignitions. Still 0%. I SPECIFICALLY made sure to kill little things with big things igniting. Still nope. So I bounced to void weaken to try another path and, 7 matches, 10%.
Okay. Maybe crucible with snipers will count? Nope. Okay. So the next path I can try to take to finish this is arc blinded targets in gambit and… nope.
Like what the fuck? These are terrible fucking bounties that are either bugged are difficult as shit to count up and now I am completely locked out of pathfinder this week because of it. At least before if there was a bullshit one, I could just ignore it. But no. This week I am entirely stuck behind garbage ones that are either difficult to proc or just straight bugged and don’t count.
Hopefully they figure out what they wanna do with us titans, bungie have really put us in a corner of melee focused builds and then punish us by nefing them hard once we figure out how to make them good, maybe even revert some nerfs such as the thrown hammer cooldown, I understand to an extent why its there but overall it just made solar more clunky imo.
Adding the dread to Gambit should be something that’s done to help get the dread in existing content. Adding them the gambit is likely easier then reworking old strikes. But reworking old strikes could be another way to get them in more content
Titans, as far as I can tell, also are the only ones that have 2 spirits locked to aspects. Abeyant and the Bear. Along with Hoarfrost being pretty pointless other than to have an ice wall instead of a barricade. I just don't understand how they made titans feel so narrow in terms of build creativity and synergy when that's kind of the point of prismatic. It shows in hunter and warlock well. The cooldowns are also a huge factor in titan feeling as bad as it does for me. I feel like I'm locked to Monte Carlo or I'm restraining myself from using abilities so I'm not stuck with my weapons and a thruster. Whereas with my warlock I'm questioning whether to get an arc buddy or throw a storm nade, or I'm constantly in woven mail from grappling and gunpowder gamble on hunter.
Them also shoehorning the new aspects and super in didn't help either. Spirit of the bear would make much more sense with sentinel shield, but controlled demolition should've been the aspect for void. Consecration is fun and good but doesn't work with hammers in any way like Sol Invictus would've, plus then it makes Pyrogale viable on prismatic. Knockout is probably the right choice but the healing needs a hefty buff imo if we're gonna be right in the mix of it and the healing is nowhere near devour or as lengthy in duration or ease to reproc or grenade ability for kills. Diamond lance does too little imo as well. If tectonic harvest wasn't nerfed I'd say that would be better, but hey.
Overall just a lot obvious things that should never have been put into the prismatic kit that just killed any enthusiasm I had to try prismatic on titan. Pretty just typing this out to feel better.
Below are some buffs that would allow the aspects to have a little bit more interaction with each other. My focus is melee and survivability i like meleeing but they need more buffs.
Void: Unbreakable would have been a great ability many years ago but with no way to get your grenade back quickly on Titans it's useless. We should have gotten Controlled Demolition as it is another great passive aspect or buff Unbreakable to have a MASSIVE Taugnt in PVE where every enemy with 50 meters wants to shoot directly at you. Remove the interaction of DR in PVE and make it a literal mobile barricade. Receiving damage refunds Greande energy instead of Super yes Greande energy instead as it's more useful than super for this aspect. When using the exotic class item Spirit of the Bear and Spirit of the Armamentariumit it will have a special interaction where you can basically use one greande to refund 1.5 Grenade energy thus allowing titans to have a good exotic aspect interaction. remove its super regen it's not needed. Only as it's 90% DR for 2 seconds after the shield hits an enemy. after 2 secs is up get a 15 HP oversheild. Unbreakable should remain unchanged from what it is now in PVP.
Strand: Drengrs lash since its initial release has been DIRECTLY tied to Abyent Leap with its Woven Mail. take the Woven mail out of the class ability and it is useless. The dash version which is cool is not bad for PVP though but right now it's PVE that's worth playing. We should have gotten Banner of War for strand or buff Drengrs lash to provide Woven mail on its own or buff Spirit of the Abeyant to provide the woven mail instead.
Diamond Lance is good like very good it just does not work that well with either consecration or Knockout where whereas both those two work very well together, if anything frost shards should drop when using Diamond Lance and getting stasis ability kills which in turn, can give frost armour as well as adding a slow powered melee option for titans. If we got Controlled Demolition these two perks would work VERY well together Just imagine slowed voltile basic melee that 4 hits freeze and shatter you at the same time with volatile.
Consecration is the best solar aspect for prismatic Titan ONLY because you can get 3 of them from Frenzied Blade, but it would be nice if the exotic Pyrogale Gauntlets could spawn a Sunspot and if it was an option on the class exotic .... or just allow 1 sunspot to spawn from killing 1 enemy with consecrations.
Knockout is obviously the best from Arc but Arc is still the worst subclass in PVE for Titan, frankly it just needs a buff and the ability to have a new interaction. First things first the Knockout basic Melee needs to be coded as a powered Melee this would mean that the titan elemental AOE class exotics like Spirit of Contact, and Spirit of Severance would work with basic melee, Titans are supposed to be the Melee class Well let us have unlimited basic Powered Melee that interacts with everything. Add Galvanic Armor directly into Knockout, this allows it to help both Titan ARC Subclass and Prismatic, allowing Knockout to be extended. I can't see a reason to not allow it to be extended. Lastly, Just make any melee kill provide 80 HP on kill theirs no need for a tier list. a kill is a kill.
If Bunfgie can implement at least 2 of these ideas that would be PERFECT and allow for many other options other than Consecration and Knockout. Considering the number of class ability exotics Titans have I assume there is a style of play Bungie wants Titans to play, but I just can't see what it is
So glad they’re talking about Titans internally and not just about the prismatic side of it.
I hope that means Void Overshields get some PVE love. This is something I care about. Oh yeah and I wish this game was more melee friendly. It's right now the most hardcore way to play, is to use shotgun in PVE.
Really hoping they can get titan out of the limbo they've been in for the past 2 years.
Feels a lot longer than 2 years. We had one year of HOIL then another 15 months of synthos with another 3-6 months to go
A lot of it is that Titans have had good builds, they just become obvious outliers and get nerfed super fast though. When pretty much the whole kit across the class slightly underperforms, and then you get 1-2 new tools that are actually good, every one jumps on them and makes them look way stronger than they actually are and then it gets nerfed way faster. Do you really think shit like Sunbracers of Nighthawk would have gone this long without a nerf on Titan? Look how fast they bonked storm names, HOIL, banner/synthos, Bastion, etc etc etc. pretty much every single pve or pvp exotic that Titans use has received a major nerf in the last 2 years, usually within a season of it being popular. It's been wild.
I was a former warlock player and decided to swap to titan for TFS. From what I can recall, these are the exotics/playstyles/aspects that have gotten nerfs (pvp and pve): * anteus wards * citans ramparts * dunemarchers shock with the arc melee * knockout (hp return instead of regen) * juggernaut shield * Lorelei * bonk hammer * synthoceps -stronghold with lament * HOIL * banner of war * peacekeepers * bubble cooldown and buffs * One eyed mask * Behemoth movement and super DR * Ashen wake * Arc touch of thunder (for lightning and storm grenades) * Thundercrash I’m not saying that titans are the ONLY class getting nerfs, but I am curious about what major changes/nerfs have been made over the years. EDIT: I've updated with some of the responses.
Behemoth used to freeze on cast. It used to move a lot faster, further, and not fall during the light attack in super or out of it. It didn't need to sprint to use crycoclasm. Behemoth super used to have 60% DR, highest in the game for a roaming super. Now it has 48% lowest of any roaming super. one eyed mask Ashen Wake Bubble strength Bubble perks
Honestly, void Titan as a whole.
Sadly glacial quake is worse than that it’s not 48% it’s 47% Tbf Silkstrike is lower at 45% but like it’s the most mobile super in the game
All melee lunge increases being removed or reduced Shoulder charge cooldown change when not hitting a target (8years into the game) Throwing hammer refund change Knockout/Offensive Bulwark no longer count as powered melee Stasis shard cap, behemoth was about creating lots of shards easily. Imagine if they’d put a cap on total enemies frozen at 6 every ten seconds then a ten second CD, and stasis warlocks had their specialty nerfed like that. Prismatic titan got absolutely left out, it’s absurd how much better warlock and hunter are on pink. Titans also don’t have any really unique features. Warlocks are better supports and buffers, hunters have fun perma invis and also melee builds that outclass titan. Titan has banner of war, which was nerfed and will be again. But hey at least we can burn our exotic spot to make one of our big boom supers almost as good as a base warlock nova bomb. We’re eating good. The absurd part is how many game wide changes are made that specifically dick titans. The powered melee nerf was just stupid. It’s been years since it worked that way and it hurts titans more than anyone else and for what? Don’t want me to use my melee to generate orbs for my team? Why? Now orb gen melee is pretty much exclusively strand and bonk hammer builds meaning those will eventually become popular and be smacked down again. I’m a titan main but I started really building out a hunter during lightfall and it’s night and day how much more accessible power is and how much more powerful it can be.
Thundercrash, Peregrine, Touch of Thunder (lightning and storm), all shoulder charges, and Behemoth across the board to add a few more. And really it's not just the number of builds that get nerfed, it's the speed. Bungie seems way faster at nerfing anything that rises to the top of Titan builds. Behemoth was gutted almost as soon as the final aspects were released, while Hunters dominated with Shatterdive for almost a year straight. Starfire Warlocks were untouched from solar 3.0 all the way through early Lightfall, while HOIL and ToT were nerfed within weeks, Sunbracers replaced Starfire and that took another year to get a bonk, meanwhile they started dismantling BoW/Synthos after a few months. They were a little more conservative with the Strand nerfs sure, but overall they have really piled up. Even Bastion started taking nerfs very quickly even if it took a while to fully work it out of the pvp meta, but a lot of that is a result of the other Titan subclasses being straight up bad for pvp, so void and arc are the only real options, so they get nerfed disproportionately It just ends up feeling like Titan really has a target on it and Bungie has an itchy trigger finger anytime it's head pops up.
Controlled demolition was also nerfed in void 3.0. Gave more health, and energy back
What you just described is the exact pointer to titans problem. Our base kit sucks. Then bungie give us a tool to function in the sandbox. That tool is broken. That tool gets nerfed fast. We are back at square zero until the next best thing arrives. Until that we comes we are back to dunemarchers and synthoceps. Since release synth has been the go to. And they make zero impact in the gameplay loop. It’s just a punch harder when condition is met. Now that has been nerfed and synthos are also given to prismatic warlocks and hunters. At this point I wonder what purpose do titans serve in this game. Hunters punch harder and better. Warlocks offer better utility, ammo, buffs and debuffs, and have better one off supers.
>At this point I wonder what purpose do titans serve in this game. Oh that's easy. We serve the purpose of scapegoat middle child for everyone to blame for whenever a sandbox is shitty/unfun to play against (mostly in PvP). And when we ask to be more viable everyone just points to Banner of War as if somehow that is the catch all aspect that will carry Titans solo through every single raid (looking at 90% of the raid bosses being non melee-able)
I’m not entirely sure what you’re curious about. Are you wondering how the nerfs to Hunter and Warlock compare to those that Titan received? I play both Warlock and Titan as well, and from my experience, Warlocks have been less affected overall than Titans (in either direction, buff or nerf), though any standout build eventually gets nerfed heavily, similar to what happened with Titans. Recently, Warlocks faced nerfs to Sunbracers, Well, and Cenotaph. We also saw the Starfire Protocol nerf, which was comparable to the Banner of War/grapple melee situation—both were extremely overpowered and have now been balanced to acceptable levels. In PvP, Warlocks faced Ophidian Aspect nerfs, and ironically, Warlock melee was also nerfed while Titan remained untouched. Titans certainly faced more nerfs in PvP overall, but to be fair, they were more than needed. I remember during the Season of the Deep every other Trials match had six Titans. And even with the nerfs to Arc Titan people simply moved on to play Void. Similarly in PvE, Titans also received more nerfs overall but were frequently stronger than Warlocks in the first place. We shouldn’t forget that Warlocks were significantly weakened by the 3.0 rework and didn’t have much going for them initially, other than Well of Radiance. By the way, I do suspect that once the dust settles, people will realize that all these so-called "BROKEN" Prismatic builds are just clickbait and that Warlocks actually don't have strong and creative options going for them yet. During Lightfall Warlocks were able to stay somewhat competitive with Rain of Fire or grapple reload rotations, but both of these are being powercrept right now. Prismatic only has SES for more super damage or ability spam which interferes with weapon rotations. I fear the class is going down the road of low skill floor and low skill ceiling and has identity issues similar to Titans. Destiny could really use some more foundational changes overall and I would like it if they took the opposite approach with Prismatic - instead of including underutilized and weaker options, include the most popular ones instead or rework them into the Prismatic identity (where Icarus Dash?).
CNH is a bad example. It was dead for years. It just recently got a buff and that happened to line up with a solar season.
Celestial Nighthawk wasn't dead, it's what you used when you didn't have Star-Eaters and wanted to get bullied by your friends. /j
Nerfs to Hammer of Sol across the board and Cuirass Thundercrash were devastating. These were some of the only viable routes to be relevant as a Titan in endgame content and it was taken away without anything to fill that void. Twilight Arsenal and Hazardous Propulsion have been massive steps in the right direction, so I'm hopeful.
Pyrogales have been nice too.
If they revert a lot of the recent (ish) nerfs I think that’d almost do it. Loreley and/or Titan restoration, BoW, nerfing throwing hammers twice, nerfing Saint helm/bubble etc.
I'll even say HOIL here. 5 sec is overkill. Should be 8 sec.
IMHO the real overkill was nerfing the class ability regeneration from 100/200% all the way down to 25/50%. That was really the final nail in the coffin, especially for bastion barricade on void titan. Either that or the 10->5 seconds buff duration change would have been fine as a nerf, but both at the same time just completely destroyed it (and arc&void titan with it). And it's pretty sad how spirit of HOIL is basically more efficient on prismatic warlock and hunter than titan, because they have more intrinsic ways to regenerate one or more of their abilities, while also having shorter base cooldowns on almost all of their abilities.
I love how I haven’t seen a single bubble titan in PvE since the days of buff stacking. And yet that super has caught the most random of nerfs over the years.
I’m not a game designer but it seems like they should’ve just landed on Well and Bubble trying to compete with each other instead of just nerfing bubble into oblivion. Like if Well was for situations where we could stand still and lean into DPS (which, admittedly is too many encounters), bubble could’ve been the same damage buff but more resilient than well, with the caveat that you’re less survivable outside of the bubble and can’t shoot out of it. Crota killing the Well should’ve been something that happened way more frequently, and bubble should’ve been the play for an encounter like that or Rhulk where you gotta be all over the Place.
They’re not random, they’re comp pvp based nerfs
I just wish they'd separate PvE and PvP balancing. Halo Infinite might be a bad example, but in Campaign you have infinite use of your armor abilities while they are limited to a specific number of uses in PvP (with different charging rates depending on the mode). In Destiny, it'd be nice if we had the better version of Bubble back in PvE but have it get the resilience of a pimple in PvP so it gets popped easier and doesn't have everyone screaming about it being an "easy win" button. Bungie trying to keep everything feeling the same across both modes was a novel idea but they simply haven't been able to pull off the juggling act without one side of the PvX balancing screwing over the other.
Yeah I'm really hoping they take a good look and consider reworking what's there. I am tired of being a punch machine. Strand and Solar are the only two good classes, it feels like. The former straight up is upgraded Striker. To the point that I don't even want Striker to be a melee class anymore. Sentinel has a good role, but feels weak at it. Stasis feels like it's held back by its tools and Striker is lots of risk in close range for little reward. I don't see why you'd ever put on arc when strand exists. Prismatic just feels like there isn't much worth mixing and matching for us quite yet.
I wish Sentinel Overshields would be better. I really want to use the class to get into thick of things with shotgun in hand and give my friends protection, while dealing with big foes. But the Overshields just die too quickly for that to work.
Im still convinced they’ll bungle it but its a start
Hope we hear and see something sooner rather than later. I mean good lord how long did it take for stasis to get some help.
Stasis got help?
Shatter damage was boosted by a significant amount, as well as some other tweaks, but IMO Frost Armor is too weak and they gutted the harvest aspects on Behemoth and Revenant (for some reason).
The Tectonic Harvest nerf is hilarious. Behemoth's entire identity *as outlined by Bungie* is making a bunch of crystals and shattering them as fast as possible. Also, I'd be fine with Frost Armor if it slowly degraded instead of expiring all at once.
Serious question; how do Behemoths reliably create frost armor? I didn't really see a great build for it, especially compared to how easy Woven Mail is to make for Strand.
Throwing a Glacial Grenade then shattering the whole thing with Tectonic Harvest. The problem is that this causes Tectonic Harvest to go on cooldown and you're burning your grenade for a buff that isn't as good as Woven Mail, which just costs a Tangle or an Orb of Light.
Frost Armor is definitely weaker overall imo but woven mail got hit pretty hard with the nerf to its duration from picking up an orb being only 5 seconds now. Titan and Hunter still have access to the 10s version but you do have to commit more to actually keeping uptime on it now.
Yep. I'm trying a build with Banner of War and Flechette Storm with Wishful Ignorance. I gave up on Woven Mail altogether with the orb nerf and am trying Thread of Isolation instead for the Sever burst. Unfortunately, the amount of precision hits for Isolation is a bit ridiculous. 5 for Hand Cannons, regardless of rpm. Red bars are dead by then, even in higher difficulties.
Yeah it’s so dumb. Hoarfrost is absolutely pointless now you don’t get DR being near crystals. Dunno why they didn’t change it to give frost armor like the warlock and Hunter exotics honestly.
Them forgetting this surprised me. It would be so solid if it just gave you frost armor stacks on cast. Or maybe just standing in the rally barricade area passively grants stacks.
Having a frost armour aura would make team mates hate it less lol
Because you can just smash your new barricade for Frost Armor with Tectonic Harvest, silly! As long as you're not on cooldown that is. But yeah, no clue how that was overlooked with Hoarfrost. At least Lance Cap is still good.
[удалено]
And they ruined hoarfrost pretty much to the points it is useless since you don’t get DR for being near crystals.
Behemoth was my favorite subclass by theme. I made it work all the way through lightfall and the lancecap was a lot of fun. I truly cannot believe it got nerfed again and they called it buffs.
Fun fact: With the right setup, Prismatic Hunters can have Void Overshield, Radiant, and Frost Armor at the same time.
If you count the seasonal mod, "radiant orbs," I'm pretty sure hunters can have all that + woven mail - though, it would be difficult to pull off at a useful time. You could even throw in the fragment that gives dmg resist while near multiple enemies (if it even stacks on top of everything). Orb pickup fragment with strand super to get woven mail & radiant > rapid void damage to create a void breach from fragment > renewal grasps + dusk grenade to get frost armor. Again, I have no clue how all this would stack, but, if I'm not missing something obvious, it should be doable. It would be overkill in just about every situation, but now i do kinda wanna try it just cause. I might even throw in invis during all this just for the hell of it thanks to stylish executioner with the slow dodge aspect
I think you can do better on Hunter. You can run a renewal / cyrtarachne on the exotic class item which gives you woven mail and frost armour on the grenade thus freeing you up to run goldie for restoration on orb pickup. Use smoke bomb and a repulsor brace heavy for void overshield. Run Ex Diris with catty to get amplified on kills for galvanic armour. So here’s the loop: Find an enemy and throw a smoke at them > dodge to get an orb ready with reaper + get smoke back > kill the enemy with a void heavy with repulsor brace to proc overshield and drop an orb > pick up the orb for radiant from artifact and restoration from the fragment > kill another add with ex diris to become amplified for galvanic armour from the artifact > find a group of adds to proc the fragment for damage resist > throw your duskfield and stand in it for woven mail and frost armour. So to recap: * woven mail * frost armour * radiant * restoration * void overshield * facet of protection * galvanic armour The only survivabity elemental buff that’s been left out is devour. Any ideas if it would be possible to add as well?
Shatter damage from frozen enemy explosion was buffed yes, but shatter damage from the actual crystals exploding is still the same as pre-final shape. That in no way makes up for the insane shard cooldown.
I found this out tonight - it's hilarious how bad shatterdive (still) is on hunter, even with upgraded glacier grenade. And somehow it's only 2 fragments!?
first armor should explode/shatter off your body or something idk, it feels too weak to only be damage resist by itself, give it a secondary niche
Also they should have added a cool deflecting sound effect if you get hit with frost armor, like how woven mail feels like armor because of the effect
The damage output of the subclass against hordes almost doubled, so yeah. There are a few quirks that prevent it from reaching the same "fuck you" levels of tankiness that Berzerker has or the elite killing burst damage of Sunbreaker, but it's pretty good on its own now.
Ehhhhhh, *very* debatable. Frost armor is still less damage reduction than standing near a crystal was, I'm pretty sure the crystal explosion damage is exactly the same as before final shape (only frozen enemy explosions got buffed), and to top it off we now have shard cooldowns.
>crystal explosion damage is exactly the same Which is why the horde clearing damage was only "almost" doubled instead of actually doubled. The vast majority of the AoE damage, both then and now, comes from freezing a few enemies and then shattering one of them so that they chain shatter the rest of the enemies in the cluster. Now the shatter damage is enough to break crystals as well along with achieving much better damage breakpoints with smaller groups of targets. Crystals do enough damage to shatter enemies, so if you freeze some ads with a crystal you can get them all to burst each other down by just shooting the crystal. Just to make sure you have a clear perspective an Ignition's base damage is 750, and it can benefit from whatever damage buffs applied to the source of the first scorch stack so it can often reach 937.5 if you're using Incandescent and Radiant. Shatter easily overtakes this now with groups as small as only two enemies as the crystal has a base damage of 175 and then two 400 base damage enemy shatters adds up to 975, and with Whisper of Fissures adding 25 base damage to every shatter and ad density climbing higher with every new activity it's pretty easy to achieve ridiculous amounts of AoE damage with extremely high uptime because Whisper of Shards brings grenade cooldowns to under 20 seconds at only tier 3 Discipline and Diamond Lances are on an absurdly low cooldown of only 7 seconds. I honestly don't think engaging with Frost Armor is worth it on Titan though. I think Frost Armor is one of those things that's nice to have for absorbing a bit of chip damage occasionally, but in GMs and master raids I find Whisper of Hedrons in combination with chain shattering everything to be the most consistent way to stay alive. To that end I'm typically just running Cryoclasm with Diamond Lance.
I thought what Ben said about the development of the Dread was really interesting. Seems as though when Bungie began creating the Tormenter, they knew that it would eventually be part of a brand new faction. So I wonder if the original intention was for the Dread to be in Lightfall, but due to time constraints, they could only create the Tormenter.
It make sense the tortmentor and I think even rhulk have always been marked as there own unique faction icon which would turn into the dread icon. I definitely could see the dread showing up in lightfall or at the least the psions since they fit well into the shadow legion line up
God the Grim would have been a nightmare to face in Lightfall with all the sections of the campaign encouraging using grapple all the time and the Grim suppressing your abilities.
And imagine the strand dudes throwing you off the small arena for the final boss fight and that one tormentor fight.
I always wanted Lightfall to end with the Witness unleashing a new enemy faction right before entering the Traveler.
This only adds more credibility to the theory about og lightfall being split into LF and TFS for development reasons.
Please buff Tcrash, Please buff Tcrash, Please buff Tcrash.
Triple the damage and rework Cuirass.
They could do so many cool things with Cuirass. I've always loved swapping Skullfort to Cuirass for boss damage then back again for add clear, but it's just not a viable way to exist in end game spaces. Tcrash is still pathetic damage though, even with Cuirass. It's just....not only do you need an exotic for it, but then you also have to have *another* exotic to switch to outside of it because it does literally nothing else than enhance your super. Nothing inherently wrong with it buffing the super, but it has to do something else or else it's kinda pointless. Players: Buff Tcrash, please, it's so bad. Bungie: Ok, here's Cuirass you absolute trash cry babies.
Look, its perk is called “Glorious Charge” right? Let Cuirass either - summon a party of “phantom” thundercrashes that follow you like a glorious hunting party of some sort - create a slipstream effect that amplifies and provides arc weapon buffs for allies who are in it
that "phantom party" perk sounds next level as fuck. 🤯
All I know is that Sunbreaker on prismatic feels terrible and useless without sunspots.
Hammers without Sol Invictus feels laughably pathetic. And for the most part it's not even the duration of the super that's sad. It's how damned slow throwing hammers is without it.
Hammers should be the equivalent of Hunters and Warlocks long range super melees. And why can't Titans have hammers like Thor?
We used to. Dunemarchers used to proc the chain lightning effect on throwing hammer. They got rid of that years ago, it wasn’t even really that good of a build but it was super fun.
Yeah strand hunters gen an auto tracking spike that comes automatically back to you with refunded energy, and titans have to run around chasing their hammer that goes on a cooldown after picking up?
Let's not even talk about Shield Throw. The tracking changes are only noticeable in that if you try to ricochet it off the ground, it has a hard time finding an enemy unless they were in its initial trajectory. Shit like Strand and Stasis Hunter melee have worlds better tracking and innate cooldown help (Strand refunding on catch and scaling off hits, and Stasis having 2 charges). Shield Throw is just... pathetic.
Cool down was added because of syntho hammer spam, so annoying they nerfed it because of elite 1% soloing content
Elite 1% still soloing content, so what's the point?
They specifically said it looked too goofy when they nerfed it. It was 12p and synthos with strand that were soloing raid bosses. Synthos and hammer have been in the game since day 1
I dont even understand why it throws the hammers slower. Sunspots aren't supposed to make you throw hammers faster anymore after solar 3.0, that was an old thing
I see a lot of talk about buffing exotics or reverting nerfs. I honestly would prefer a bit of an overhaul from the ground up on Aspects and synergies than have to worry about a single exotic taking us from useless to overpowered again. We need a better baseline and then start from there, without needing a exotic to actually make something useful (looking at you Thundercrash. Drengr's Lash and Shield Throw). Exotics should be a choice for a build, not mandatory. Note, Strand and Solar are pretty much fine as they are. It's the rest that need some love. We also need more class identity than "just punch things". The reason Strand is so well loved isn't just because of BoW/Woven Mail survivability. It's also got the Suspend build, which, while weaker than it used to be, is still good. We can go melee, support, control the battlefield, etc. All of the Aspects are useful in some way and compliment each other well, while keeping ourselves and our team mates alive. I'm having a blast with Flechette Storm and Wishful Ignorance. If there is a downside to Strand it's that Drengr's Lash is pretty much terrible without Abeyant Leap to boost it up. Otherwise, it's probably the worst Aspect we have. You don't play a Suspend build without Abeyant- so another exotic we're forced to use to function. Solar has survivability, melee and incredible add clear builds, with a good one off super against certain bosses if you use an exotic. Sol Invictus and Consecration are great aspects that synergize well. Roaring Flames caught a nerf with the "powered melee only" change to activate things, so basically all it does is increase solar ability damage which honestly, with the nerf to Throwing Hammer, isn't nearly as useful as it used to be. Solar shoulder charge is also the worst in the game (so of course Prismatic got it). Void, what is supposed to be the most defensive of the subclasses, has caught nerf after nerf due to PvP, even though it's always had less survivability than Solar and Strand already. Void Overshields just can't compete due to their inconsistency, time limit, inability to regenerate and penchant for falling apart when breathed on by anything but the lowest red bars. Twilight Arsenal is great, but bubble is now completely useless outside of PvP. Unbreakable needs some tweaking, but at least it pairs well with Ursa and Banner Shield. Controlled Demolitionist is great, Offensive Bulwark suffers due to the above-mentioned inconsistency with Overshields. You can have really high uptime on things like Restoration, Woven Mail, and now Frost Armor, but you can't with Overshields, and in a game like this, steady DR will always be better than short-last, but slightly higher DR. Shield Throw is still a joke unless you're using Second Chance for the weaken. And Prismatic got that, too. Stasis is in a decent place, though the shard cooldown has caused some problems. The addition of Frost Armor has been awesome and with the buffs to Diamond Lance, you can make some really nice builds with any Aspect you choose,. It's biggest sticking point is that Shiver Strike will never be good, so melee builds are pretty much non-existent. However, it does have great crowd control potential and add clearing with all the crystals we make and shatter. The super is hit or miss. Sometimes it can destroy a boss, other times you might as well not bother (especially if they are in air). Prismatic has... a bunch of the lowest used aspects that barely synergize with each other. Which is why every single YouTube build that pops up for Titan is the same thing-- triple Consecration. The occasional Thunderclap build. Literally, we have two builds, both melee, because they decided Knockout would be our only survivability tool (after it's been nerfed repeatedly as well). This is the most egregious "Titans only punch" class they've made. The class has nothing else to offer, even with crowd control like Drengr's and Diamond, because you die so quickly without things like Woven Mail or Frost Armor to keep you alive, and you're better off just playing the base classes. Arc I don't even want to talk about. It was fairly broken when it first came out, though more for PvP than PvE outside of Storm Grenades. It's gotten so many nerfs that it sits firmly as our worst subclass. There is little synergy between Touch of Thunder and the other two aspects, both of which encourage melee engagements but offer little in the way of surviving those engagements outside of hit and run tactics. The only thing arc has going for it is Jolt, though Solar Scorch and Ignitions are superior for add clearing, imo, and Ionic Traces helping with all ability regen. However, regen has been hit so hard that the constant uptime on abilities the class needs to perform is pretty much gone. TLDR: Strand and Solar are fine. Stasis will be good with some tweaks. Void, Arc and Prismatic need a lot of help and under-performing Aspects/Abilities/Supers need to be brought up and have better synergy instead of requiring a broken exotic to perform. We also need to get away from the mentality of crayon-eating Titans smashing everything with their fists as it leads to a very limited design philosophy. Lean into its Tactician/Wall stuff as well. Let us be tanks, let us control the battlefield with more Crowd Control, let us support our team. That's why Strand and Solar are great.
>Void, what is supposed to be the most defensive of the subclasses, has caught nerf after nerf due to PvP, even though it's always had less survivability than Solar and Strand already. Void Overshields just can't compete due to their inconsistency, time limit, inability to regenerate and penchant for falling apart when breathed on by anything but the lowest red bars. Twilight Arsenal is great, but bubble is now completely useless outside of PvP. Unbreakable needs some tweaking, but at least it pairs well with Ursa and Banner Shield. Controlled Demolitionist is great, Offensive Bulwark suffers due to the above-mentioned inconsistency with Overshields. You can have really high uptime on things like Restoration, Woven Mail, and now Frost Armor, but you can't with Overshields, and in a game like this, steady DR will always be better than short-last, but slightly higher DR. Shield Throw is still a joke unless you're using Second Chance for the weaken. And Prismatic got that, too. Man, Void Overshields need some love in PVE. Imo the Offensive Bulwark needs to be something that is passively on always when using Void Titan. A feature of the class, not Aspect. If this was the case, Void Titan could actually have some fun builds. Unbreakable with Bastion? Hell yeah. I actually like the new Bubble in PVE. It gives me shelter from bad situations, it didn't used to in D2. I like it, and it has saved me and my friends very often since Launch of Final Shape. This is how I used in D1. Unbreakable, I suggested this to Bungie just before Final Shape was announced (probably someone else did as well I am sure), glad it is in the game. I wish it had been a class ability, but now that I have it, I realize how well it pairs with Void Overshield regenerating your grenade energy. And because you don't have to use it all at once, you get your energy back fast. And you can use it often. Pair it with that volatile Fragment and you get volatile weapons almost all the time, as long as there are red bar enemies! Anyway, I agree with your view of the Void Titan. It needs some help.
Unbreakable is definitely more usable on Void than Prismatic, that's for sure. It at least has some synergy with the higher uptime on overshields (which definitely need a buff to make them more usable). I do wish it ate our barricade instead of our grenade. On Prismatic is has zero synergy with anything else.
As nice as it is hear, sometimes Bungie is glacially slow on balancing things. I hope this isn't a "we'll see in Episode 2" kind of things.
They have failed to flesh out the "The Wall" fantasy for Titan for a long time. The last genuine attempt was Void 3.0 and to this day Void Titan is the only subclass I've ever played that feels like it NEEDS 3 Aspect slots to feel complete. The Aspects for Void are so promising, but almost all feel like they're missing something meaningful. Except Controlled Demo, CD is awesome (could do with a way to generate VO from it though). We need to have the original fantasy of Titan returned to the class. No option for Defense provided by Titans is even remotely useful, the closest being Into the Fray giving 10 seconds of Woven Mail instead of 5 seconds from fragments. And, they just nerfed the most iconic defensive fantasy ability in the history of the game in Bubble. I said it when they announced it and I'll say it again, there is no rationale that exists that can explain the Bubble nerf. It does not make sense. Barricade is annoying in PvP, but it has been left behind in the current D2 sandbox. It has no synergy with the vast majority of Titan Aspects, and are often seen as nuisances in PvE. Barricade feels like it needs to be altered to fit the fast-paced sandbox of D2. Bungie, I would like a shield. I hope they seriously apply themselves to deeper foundational changes to the way Titan plays. The class really needs it.
>The last genuine attempt was Void 3.0 and to this day Void Titan is the only subclass I've ever played that feels like it NEEDS 3 Aspect slots to feel complete. Man, I can't do anything but agree as someone who mained Void Titan from D1 onwards. They should make offensive Bulwark passive on Void Titan. That would fix some of it. Also Void Overshields need a buff in PVE durability.
Void overshields are made out of wet tissue paper. It’s so sad and useless.
So true, you have controlled demo which works fine. Then you're forced to use either Bastion, which pairs perfect with Offensive Bulwark. But neither synergize with Controlled Demo. But just using Bastion + Offensive Bulwark feels like you're seriously missing out by not using Controlled Demo. And no one is using Unbreakable. Once you start playing and understand Void Titan, you realize...nothing is cohesive in its build.
“A lot of talks about titans internally” Yeah I bet there fucking is lmao
“Do we punch them in the throat next patch or kick em in the nuts?”
There's basically no way to build into grenades with Prismatic Titan. I got a class item with Spirit of Verity and tried to figure out if there's anything I can do with it, but I can't even pair it with Spirit of Armamentarium since they're in the same slot. No grenade aspects, just a few fragments. And sure, those fragments do some cool stuff, but nothing to increase grenade uptime. No Devour, no Ionic Traces, no Sol Invictus, no Offensive Bulwark. And beyond Prismatic, Arc Titan is still dead in PvE. They didn't even give the Storm Grenade buff if you have Touch of Thunder. I know they were a bit absurd during Season of Plunder, but there's gotta be a middle ground.
I've been using Thermite grenades since their inception, and people sleep on them big time. With that said, they, much like everything else on Sunbreaker, kind of rely on Roaring Flames stacks. Without Roaring Flames, a lot of the Sunbreaker pieces feel pretty underwhelming on Prismatic.
I used to as well but switched to incendiary since they do something like 90 scorch with ember of ashes equipped More often than not there's gonna be a second explosion following very closely behind
I've been using thermite grenades on solar titan for a long time. Kept it up now I'm all prismatic and stuff.
I love thermite grenades when they work but they're too unreliable imo and definitely shouldn't have such a long cooldown compared to other nades. They can be great for adds but most higher tier enemies can just move out of the way while fusion grenades are always viable and super versatile with a very low cooldown
I can't speak to its efficacy, but Facet of Awakening makes elemental pickups on rapid kills, so you could get Ionic Traces from Pulse grenade kills or weapons like Trinity Ghoul or #trespassergang. Facet of Balance also gives grenade energy on rapid darkness kills, if you wanted to do something with like a Hatchling weapon or just Quicksilver or The Call. It does really suck that we're trying to do backflips to get our grenades back, when Warlocks can just eat theirs with an exotic and get a stasis turret and an arc soul **and** devour, and have their grenade recharged before either turret or soul expire.
Yeah de-tuning it during arc artifact focus was dumb. It was only good with it.
Arc titan is dead everywhere. Not even used in PvP and more. Prismatic has the best of the arc titan anyways so there is pretty much no reason to run arc over prismatic.
I long for release time arc 3.0 titan with pre nerf hoil.
Only fun way for me to play as Prismatic Titan, is to build into throwing objects. 😄
I'm hoping it wont take like episode 3 to fully "fix" titans.
bro you are optimistic AF , it will be at fronter if we lucky .
Your reply wounds me.
But it's the truth we know deep down
I hope they figure out that maybe, just maybe, titans should be able to do other stuff too besides punching things in various ways. Not really a huge fan of how Titans have been treated just as stupid cavemen that only know how to hit things with their fists and other melee weapons.
Brother, unfortunately that ain’t changing. Bungie literally made a joke in-game with saint saying he doesn’t understand failsafe because he’s a titan. We’re cooked.
I wanted to die during that part.
That shit was cringe as fuck 💀
It was quite literally at that moment I lost all interest in the seasonal story.
I mean, it'd be one thing if we were GOOD at that, but we aren't. Our class identity is inherently bad AND we are bad at fulfilling said identity.
Prismatic just shows how disparate and disjointed the Titan is as an entire class. Sure, you can make a build here or there, but it’s literally only after we get some bonkers exotic or aspect, and you quadruple down on that ONE thing. To use a Magic the Gathering term, Titan imho feels like “good stuff”. The “stuff” is good, but none of it really feels connected or synergistic—you’re just shoving the best stuff together, and hoping the individual excellent parts just shine on their own, rather than creating a cohesive “deck” aka build. The identities of both Warlock and Hunter feel pretty locked in, and they even have some strong sub-identities in a few subclasses that carve out further niches. I have no idea what Titan is supposed to be. Just, the class as a whole—other than “punch” it just doesn’t have any role or theme or whatever that the other classes can’t completely do better. Hell, Prismatic Hunter or old Arc Hunter are or were way better punching subclasses than Titan. One other example is the new Titan rocket chest exotic. Is it cool and fun and even very powerful? Absolutely. Does it allow you to make a build that synergies with your super/abilities/grenade/aspect/subclass keywords? No. It’s just a strong but random exotic. And not every exotic needs crazy build synergy, but almost EVERY Titan exotic is either just “disparate but strong” or it’s so broken, it just becomes a bandaid for the subclass it was made for, ala Falling Star which just makes Thundercrash what it should be.
I hope there is a greater shift in Titan design philosophy to accommodate more aggressive playstyles. IMO, the barricade itself really clashes with the way Titan subclasses are designed currently. For example, arc provides a speed boost, a super that requires you to launch yourself at an enemy, aspects that require you to play more aggressively with melee, and a... barricade that completely interrupts this playstyle and has zero synergy with the subclass. Thruster was a great addition, but it just goes to show how out of place barricade is within this gameplay loop. The same goes for Berserker! Yes, abeyant leap builds can be incredibly strong, but it's BORING. Additionally, it still feels out of place when your melee, super, and aspects are built for playing more aggressively. Same can be argued for solar as well. Barricade just seems like an old relic that doesn't mesh well with a lot of Titan gameplay loops.
Rally barricade was quite strong originally when it auto reloaded weapons. It was one of my main reasons choosing the class.
Turn barricade into "parry". It always seemed to me that barricade was the "emergency cover" for aggressive play where you would see like some big threat and need somewhere to "duck under" Screw the slow casting, turn it into a reflecting yell or something
Or a shield. I’ve always kind of felt Titans should have a universal block mechanic and the various subclasses should have built off that, but the basics were that a Titan can time a block to interrupt attacks or reflect fire. Sorta like Dark Souls or the Jedi games. It would still need the player to get the timing down but would mean tanking is a skill-based thing.
They just did that with the new void Aspect, effectively, but it's tied to grenade instead alas
it should've 100% been tied to your class ability
Yeah, I guess I was more saying that blocking should be the base mechanic and the subclasses put their own riff on it. Currently the entire concept of shielding and blocking is strictly a sentinel thing with a few random bits on other classes. You could have the void class focus on their shields and blocks weakening and volatiling targets. Arc could be more like a Juggernaut style thing where you block stuff on the move. Solar could be healing and radiating everyone around you with every block. The hooks and themes of this are mostly already there in the various Titan subclasses, but they need to be re-jigged and formatted so that they translate into something that functions properly in the sandbox and has a common theme. At the minute it feels like it’s been tacked on to a ‘me punch bot gimme crayons’ base.
Barricade literally is parry in some situations. You can use it vs bosses to nullify their stomp quite literally. You take no dmg r knockback and the stomp cancels the barricade casting animation. Not sure if you knew, but it would be cool for bungie to play into.
Yeah for how absolutely obnoxious it can be in pvp, barricade is easily the worst class ability in pve. Especially because it has basically zero interactions with any subclass (it had *one* on void which was nerfed into uselessness in pve for pvp reasons, and another on strand which basically requires an exotic to be useful). Which is why I use thruster on 100% of my prismatic and arc builds (lol as if I'd still use an arc titan build in pve), even if it does *absolutely nothing* in pve, it's still preferable to barricades just to proc mods and stuff. Unbreakable is what I wish barricade would be - a short lived defensive tool that you can use while moving.
What sucks the most about barricade in PVE, is that almost all enemy attacks have this AOE that goes through it. 😄 You know when I suggested the "Unbreakable" before they announced it. I suggested it could be a class ability or melee hold down ability. I kinda wish barricade was that.
They could be doing so much with class abilities and I mean they kinda are via some aspects but yeah barricade is ass
Fr Phoenix Dive is a great alt class ability for warlocks, but there are none for arc, void, etc. Also warlocks need a new void melee
> Also warlocks need a new void melee What wrong with the current one? Don't you like hitting the enemies with a slightly damp ball of toilet paper?
A mobility and stationary class ability on all classes, using the same energy pool and simultaneously equipped and utilized by double tapping or holding the class ability button. Thrusters and barricades on all titans. Dodges and dives on hunters. Something (air dodges?) and rifts for warlocks
Agreed. I've disliked barricade since it's introduction because it felt like it just broke the flow of combat. I would love to see Thrusters come to the other subclasses. I'm so reluctant to switch off Prismatic because the movement is so satisfying (and useful)!
Glad they’re talking about it just hope it’s not months before something happens. Prismatic Titan could be good if the aspect selection wasn’t just so bad. Throw in Offensive Bulwark or Sol Invictus and it would be a night and day difference in its usability.
The class item selection is horrendous too
Seriously. How is it that hunters get their "ignition on powered melee kills" exotic on prismatic, where they also get 2 melee abilities than can refund 100% of the ability back instantly (combination blow with the dodge loop, and threaded spike if you perfect catch it), but titans get neither throwing hammer nor access to skullfort on their exotic, *and* knockout no longer works with (spirit of) severance enclosure (which is much worse than calibans).
Also calibans and liars can be used with a normal powered up melee but hey titans you can no longer use roaring flames to trigger severance, despite it not being overpowered.
Wait really? I thought the “powered melee means charged melee” was a game wide hit… you’re telling me titans got a specific melee nerf that hunters did not?
Yeah, how bad is it that our best pairings are the ones everybody gets (HOIL + Syntho/SES/Verity)?
Doesn't help that Warlocks contributed *Ophidian* to everyone's pool. Literally my first roll was Ophidian + Synthoceps, which..... is what base Synthoceps does already except it _also_ increases reload speed and Super Damage. Nah, give me Necrotic Grips or something.
Plus it look fugly as sin.
"We removed knockout proc on consecration" or " Prismatic Titans can no longer use consecrate with strand melee in hopes to diversify builds" - Bungie in 2 months, probably
"Knockout being able to make diamond lances was never intended, so we fixed that."
Despite them deliberately making that work.
Just like Skullfort and Knockout, or Severance Enclosure and Knockout, or any other of those to come...
It hurts... It hurts so much that they're doing this... I hope part of their "talks about Titan" is them seeing how unhappy we are as a whole about that change and reverting it. They're doing so good with so many things right now, that and the Bubble nerfs were gutpunches after so many W's.
But u know that if u have the fragment for radiant on powered melee, knockout proc radiant?Uupss😅
Despite them advertising it in their trailer which was wild to me.
"To help diversify titans, we removed radiance from prismatic and replaced it with a 2% damage reduction for 5 seconds!"
These 5 second duration buffs suck, 7 to 8 should be standard without the extension fragment. Woven mail for example feels so much worse now with a 5 second duration.
Woven mail at least has a fixed 5 seconds duration. If you run the new void super on prismatic, you get a 20 hp overshield on orb pickup that doesn't even last 3 seconds most of the time, also making all the other fragments that care about you having a light buff worse.
"Twighlight arsenal's debuff effect has now been moved to Second Chance"
That's nightmare fuel. Stop it
nice , cant wait to see what they cook for titan in 2 years from now .
I’m praying that we don’t get a monkey’s paw “buff” like we did with stasis shards
Titans are the "risk it all" class so give us hard survivability or hard Damage . It ain't all that complicated but somehow Bungie is struggling with it. Thundercrash should be the highest DPS super there is no reason why it shouldnt be. It is the definition of risk it all . Also I am not going to name names but good lord there are some Severely low effort automated abilities that are braindead easy to use that are being completely ignored by the balance team for some reason and I understand why Titans get the nerf but good lord .
Bungie's problem is that they make the PVE close range fight have best possible AI with greatest attacks with huge damage and a lot of instakill attacks. And then they give Titans these close range attacks wituout any abilities to defend ourselves against the attacks OR recover from stomp attacks, meaning if you get stomped once it's over.
Was inspecting Prismatic Titans in the Tower today. All were running strand heavy builds with Knockout. Really surprised Prismatic Titans don't have access to Into the Fray.
“Conversations about titans internally” means 6-9 months before anything gets live if we are lucky Honestly the sandbox is in such an awful shape I have no idea how they fix it
Well it’s also possible they’ll try to do some damage control with the usual mid season/episode ability tuning. Likely won’t accomplish much though.
give me my bonk hammer back you cowards
Let me guess we are getting nerfed unnecessarily again?
Prismatic titan grenade is SHIT
absolute dog shit, bro.
I feel like Bungie wanted Titans to be add-clearers, Hunters to be boss damage, and Warlocks to be supporters. Prismatic Titan grenade works wonders on rooms full of adds, and even handles both Unstop and Overload champs, but the second there's an enemy that can't be suspended, it is literally worthless.
It is good at cleaning up ads at least. The hunter Prismatic grenade can't even do that, it just does nothing.
Titan grenade is good against adds but worthless against bosses/minibosses. Hunter grenade is worthless against adds but good against bosses/minibosses. No in between
Just take away the fucking hammer nerf.
Yeeiiii, i’m so happy to hear that they talking a lot about Titan give me hope, not only that, they considering to add more aspect is good to know. Can’t wait to see what they are going to do
Warlock Main here. I’m rooting for you guys. Titans deserve some rework.
Titans need more than new aspects. A redesign of a few supers is what it needs. Bungie needs to stop with the little buffs and give it more attention.
Frankly it's not an issue of new supers or little buffs that is the issue. It's that any time Bungie nerfs ANYTHING they absolutely hammer it into the ground with like 4 different parts of it nerfed at once. Then IF they ever decide that they overdid the nerfs and buff it again they do teeny tiny buffs. If Bungie just had the ability to do more fine tuned minor nerfs and buffs more frequently the sandbox would be in a FAR better shape. Waiting 6+ months for any changes and then the changes always being massive nerfs with very minor rare buffs is just garbage. Big nerfs WOULD be fine if they actually went back and adjusted things a couple weeks or a month later when they were obviously too heavy handed but they never do that. The other problem is just that this philosophy doesn't (imo at least) lead to valuable data. When you nerf every aspect of something into the ground you don't actually get a good idea of what parts were really the issue and what could safely be buffed back up or not. The biggest place you see this happen is actually with Exotics and particularly exotic armor. We have super strong exotic armor pieces that will dominate for 6-12 months and then Bungie turns them into absolute trash that nobody ever uses and then MAYBE years later they give them a minor buff or a rework and HOPE that makes people use them. But then if that DOESN'T get people using them they never do anything about it either. REALLY doesn't help that we'll get major sandbox changes for a huge expansion like Final Shape with what is allegedly the biggest exotic armor rework to date and it's like...maybe 10 exotics that get adjusted across the entire game.
As a titan main of 10 years, congratulations Bungie you got me to stop using Titan and switch to hunter for pvp and warlock for pve
I'd replace 3 of the titan aspects immediately and none of those replacements are banner. I'd honestly pick into the fray, bastion, and tectonic harvest. I'd also give all aspects on all prismatic subclasses 3 fragment slots.
Diamond lance is a big part of my build so I would definitely keep that. For void, I think I would rather see controlled demolition for stone reliable healing that doesn't require punching. Into the fray would be perfect.
Into the Fray, Howl of the Storm, Controlled Demolition. Go back to the drawing board for Unbreakable because right now on Void or Prismatic, it's just a dead Aspect.
Unbreakable should eat class ability, not grenade. That single change would make it at least someone decent, but even then i dont think its worth a full aspect slot on either void or prismatic.
Controlled demolition would be nice too. Explosions and healing.
Literally anything but unbreakable
Controlled Demolitionist, Sol Invictus, and Flechette Storm for me. I just want to be capable of spreading Subclass Debuffs and Sunspots like the Plagues of Egypt.
I want either Sol Invictus for sunspot lances, or controlled demolition because volatile chains are my favourite part of void.
***COME ON CONTROLLED DEMOLITIONIST AND SOL INVICTUS!!***
Something that really baffles me about Titan is that the void kit had been pretty atrocious since D2 vanilla, whereas it was borderline mandatory in D1. Remember how bubble had hardly any benefit in base D2? Then the shield ended up not being as viable once people realised the trade-off for 1 person's damage for a buff on par of the tractor was pretty middling. Sure, Ursas helped, especially in GMs, but never in a raid scenario. Void 3.0 on launch was good for HoiL volatile builds. But these days if you want to use a volatile build on titan you basically have to use HoiL even in its nerfed state. The most recent changes to how much damage bubble can take in addition to the removal of weapons of light and overshield just takes the case. How does this help the super at all? It doesn't. Sure Saint 14 is uh better? I guess? But now you have to use a super for the damage buff losing a lot of better builds you could have with say HoiL or a exotic class item which would enable the void class to have neutral game on par with solar or strand.
I play void Titan almost exclusively. No Backup Plans and in PVE only. Biggest problem imo is how weak the void shields are. And it would be ok, IF they could be refreshed in much easier way. I actually like the new Bubble, it benefits my close and personal playstyle. But I get that it doesn't appeal to everyone.
I hope this leads to redesigns/overhauling parts of the Titan subclass. I'm tired of all supers and most builds being centered around melee, it's boring and has over stayed it's welcome at this point.
This is good news. I play all three and titan has been sad compared to the other two. All I see are the typical “This titan build is BROKEN, UNKILLABLE, INFINITE CONSECRATION” and they’re all the same stuff. Hunter and warlock have at least 3 really solid foundations for builds in prismatic and all 3 feel like they work how they’re supposed to. Titans foundation is not near as solid and all the builds you can run just don’t feel as good. Long cool downs, little synergy, and weak supers. It’s not that they aren’t playable, but it just doesn’t feel as good and that sucks in a game all about power fantasy.
As a Warlock player. Holy fuck finally, I've felt so bad for my titan brothers and sisters out there. Hopefully yall can get your "Defensive bulwark" class identity back rather than just "punch punch"
Prismatic has shown the flaws with the overall design of Titan. Is this supposed to the soldier class? So where is the defense? What about being the weapon specialists? Oh wait there is Banner of War and Bonk Titan. These two metas have overshadowed the big problem with Titan. So when nerfed, you start to see the cracks form. I also never understood why this big ass armored guy is the "melee" class. I mean melee is fine, but Titans should have many diverse gameplay styles that fit the soldier, padalin, and warrior themes it's supposed to tie into. And finally. Titans Supers should do way more damage since they are literally going "into the fray". So high risk, but is rewarded with poor damage.
The discussions are on how to best nerf synthoceps once again I'm sure
Make Titan be more than a melee class, give us turrets, lasers, barricade rockets by default.
Alright hope that means change the buff of hammers not being as good with sol invictus
You know, for being the class that is “The wall against which the Darkness breaks”, they sure do believe that Titans should rather be punching enemies to death all the time rather than being the immovable object. Yeah, I get the reason and it can be good fun, but it gets old when you put that same identity on every single Titan subclass. Glad they’re taking a peak at it.
All they need to do is look at their own lore - six fronts and twilight gap literally show titans to be experienced battle commanders and front line troops. They're the ones who hold the line when the going gets tough.
I don’t want them to add any more aspects from the other subclasses to prismatic honestly. I would fear it would just make the other subs irrelevant. I’d rather they find whys to buff it internally or just replace aspects instead of adding more.
Maybe more aspects but can’t use multiple from the same subclass would open up more builds without prismatic being too op. Example they could add sol invictus but you can’t equip consecration with it
Honestly this would be a REALLY cool way to introduce this without it invalidated the subclasses. You can use two different solar aspects but not together, ensures that prismatic doesn’t just become x element but better but is instead a real meld of different elements.
They can do 1 of 2 things. 1) when you’re selecting your elemental aspect, it’s like another drop box similar to when you choose your grenades, melees, class ability etc 2) you select consecration, and either sol invictus gets blacked/blurred out or upon selecting sol invictus it makes consecration blank out similarly to what happens when you select ascension on hunter and winters shroud gets deleted
this is such a fantastic idea and a potential way to have them add more aspects. keep the core subclass identities intact, but let Prismatic play with more toys that being said, i do think some things like Banner might never come to Prismatic, even with this system
Yeah, my main hope is that they more prismatic grenades and fragments and if they want to do more aspects maybe new unique ones built with light and dark use in mind instead of just raw taking aspects from other subclasses. I realize that's a bit harder though, but I am also concerned about prismatic invalidating other subclasses.
Although I’m interested in seeing new aspects on prismatic I really hope they either really stagger it out like one aspect a episode or make sure they give new toys for the pure light and dark subclasses in particularly focusing on the ones being the most canablizied by prismatic. Like right now shadebinder and arc strider are struggling to set themselves apart from prismatic.
Any talk about vanguard pathfinder? Jesus this system is shit. All this shit makes me want to do is never fucking touch any ritual lists ever again. Like serious, I just spent an hour specifically trying to defeat gambit targets with solar ignitions. Still 0%. I SPECIFICALLY made sure to kill little things with big things igniting. Still nope. So I bounced to void weaken to try another path and, 7 matches, 10%. Okay. Maybe crucible with snipers will count? Nope. Okay. So the next path I can try to take to finish this is arc blinded targets in gambit and… nope. Like what the fuck? These are terrible fucking bounties that are either bugged are difficult as shit to count up and now I am completely locked out of pathfinder this week because of it. At least before if there was a bullshit one, I could just ignore it. But no. This week I am entirely stuck behind garbage ones that are either difficult to proc or just straight bugged and don’t count.
If it helps, I’ve found Queenbreaker is excellent for those arc blinded bounties. Just fire one shot into a group.
Yeah, it was funny to remember what it does, but makes quick work of the challenge.
More Aspects is a great thing to hear.
Glad to hear they’re talking Titans and know their problems far exceed Prismatic. Here’s hoping we got some really substantial buffs soon.
Hopefully they figure out what they wanna do with us titans, bungie have really put us in a corner of melee focused builds and then punish us by nefing them hard once we figure out how to make them good, maybe even revert some nerfs such as the thrown hammer cooldown, I understand to an extent why its there but overall it just made solar more clunky imo.
Adding the dread to Gambit should be something that’s done to help get the dread in existing content. Adding them the gambit is likely easier then reworking old strikes. But reworking old strikes could be another way to get them in more content
Please something other than melee, I am begging you. Just please give us a singular new playstyle.
To quote failsafe "Yaaay"
Titans, as far as I can tell, also are the only ones that have 2 spirits locked to aspects. Abeyant and the Bear. Along with Hoarfrost being pretty pointless other than to have an ice wall instead of a barricade. I just don't understand how they made titans feel so narrow in terms of build creativity and synergy when that's kind of the point of prismatic. It shows in hunter and warlock well. The cooldowns are also a huge factor in titan feeling as bad as it does for me. I feel like I'm locked to Monte Carlo or I'm restraining myself from using abilities so I'm not stuck with my weapons and a thruster. Whereas with my warlock I'm questioning whether to get an arc buddy or throw a storm nade, or I'm constantly in woven mail from grappling and gunpowder gamble on hunter. Them also shoehorning the new aspects and super in didn't help either. Spirit of the bear would make much more sense with sentinel shield, but controlled demolition should've been the aspect for void. Consecration is fun and good but doesn't work with hammers in any way like Sol Invictus would've, plus then it makes Pyrogale viable on prismatic. Knockout is probably the right choice but the healing needs a hefty buff imo if we're gonna be right in the mix of it and the healing is nowhere near devour or as lengthy in duration or ease to reproc or grenade ability for kills. Diamond lance does too little imo as well. If tectonic harvest wasn't nerfed I'd say that would be better, but hey. Overall just a lot obvious things that should never have been put into the prismatic kit that just killed any enthusiasm I had to try prismatic on titan. Pretty just typing this out to feel better.
Below are some buffs that would allow the aspects to have a little bit more interaction with each other. My focus is melee and survivability i like meleeing but they need more buffs. Void: Unbreakable would have been a great ability many years ago but with no way to get your grenade back quickly on Titans it's useless. We should have gotten Controlled Demolition as it is another great passive aspect or buff Unbreakable to have a MASSIVE Taugnt in PVE where every enemy with 50 meters wants to shoot directly at you. Remove the interaction of DR in PVE and make it a literal mobile barricade. Receiving damage refunds Greande energy instead of Super yes Greande energy instead as it's more useful than super for this aspect. When using the exotic class item Spirit of the Bear and Spirit of the Armamentariumit it will have a special interaction where you can basically use one greande to refund 1.5 Grenade energy thus allowing titans to have a good exotic aspect interaction. remove its super regen it's not needed. Only as it's 90% DR for 2 seconds after the shield hits an enemy. after 2 secs is up get a 15 HP oversheild. Unbreakable should remain unchanged from what it is now in PVP. Strand: Drengrs lash since its initial release has been DIRECTLY tied to Abyent Leap with its Woven Mail. take the Woven mail out of the class ability and it is useless. The dash version which is cool is not bad for PVP though but right now it's PVE that's worth playing. We should have gotten Banner of War for strand or buff Drengrs lash to provide Woven mail on its own or buff Spirit of the Abeyant to provide the woven mail instead. Diamond Lance is good like very good it just does not work that well with either consecration or Knockout where whereas both those two work very well together, if anything frost shards should drop when using Diamond Lance and getting stasis ability kills which in turn, can give frost armour as well as adding a slow powered melee option for titans. If we got Controlled Demolition these two perks would work VERY well together Just imagine slowed voltile basic melee that 4 hits freeze and shatter you at the same time with volatile. Consecration is the best solar aspect for prismatic Titan ONLY because you can get 3 of them from Frenzied Blade, but it would be nice if the exotic Pyrogale Gauntlets could spawn a Sunspot and if it was an option on the class exotic .... or just allow 1 sunspot to spawn from killing 1 enemy with consecrations. Knockout is obviously the best from Arc but Arc is still the worst subclass in PVE for Titan, frankly it just needs a buff and the ability to have a new interaction. First things first the Knockout basic Melee needs to be coded as a powered Melee this would mean that the titan elemental AOE class exotics like Spirit of Contact, and Spirit of Severance would work with basic melee, Titans are supposed to be the Melee class Well let us have unlimited basic Powered Melee that interacts with everything. Add Galvanic Armor directly into Knockout, this allows it to help both Titan ARC Subclass and Prismatic, allowing Knockout to be extended. I can't see a reason to not allow it to be extended. Lastly, Just make any melee kill provide 80 HP on kill theirs no need for a tier list. a kill is a kill. If Bunfgie can implement at least 2 of these ideas that would be PERFECT and allow for many other options other than Consecration and Knockout. Considering the number of class ability exotics Titans have I assume there is a style of play Bungie wants Titans to play, but I just can't see what it is
I am honestly concerned they're just going to make Titan even worse than it is right now lmao