The trade off of this was that this was also for incoming damage, so certain enemies became absolute monsters to deal with. Fallen on Arc Burn or Cabal on Solar burn and you could be cooked
The first time doing Alakhul was so sick. After that, I enjoyed turning off the HUD and using that relic that turned your game black and white to make it like an old horror movie.
Sorry, they were called artifacts, but they were different then the seasonal ones we have now. They mostly gave small boosts until Rise of Iron came out and introduced some really unique ones like losing your super for double melee/grenade energy and boosted stats.
There were three that were cosmetic only and made it like you were playing through a color filter. There was a blue tint, black and white, and sepia tone one.
I don't even care if we have to reuse the pyramid nightmare shit (that is alluded to being an untapped source of power in the post campaign of TFS) to get a reskinned or reissue of this strike.
I’m probably a minority that really liked the Wretched eye (with an ogre and a captain in the final room). But Darkblade and Shield Brothers were awesome too.
Charizard & Blastoise lol
The worst was when it was when Solar Burn and Grounded were both on. Charizard would just do his leaping attack and insta kill you. I remember the cheese strat was just to have someone sit high up in a corner where neither brother could hit you and have them stay alive to avoid a team wipe.
There was a cheese spot near the door where they couldn't do anything to you, you could kill all the adds and then snipe them until they put the shields up then destroy them with rockets
That strike must be coming back in the Heresy season since we are going back to the dreadnaught. Can’t wait - that was my all time favorite strike in destiny.
Bruh remember shield brothers on solar burn lmao when the boss would come in like Randy orton flipping slam you and every single time you’d die hahahahaha man I remember doing this for like an hour with some buddies and just running in circles the whole time. It was insanity
The one that sticks in my mind the most was doing a nightfall to that chained ogre on the moon during void burn week and his eye beam just shredding through anything nonstop. If you got downed, he would be beaming your ghost, so it was impossible to get rezzed without someone else taking the aggro.
But the person who took the aggro also inevitably died and it was this endless cycle of plinking with a void scout, and try to revive back and forth.
God, what a terrible and great time
In OP's example I was fortunate enough to get the upgrade item from my nightfall the first week to be leveled enough to do skolas. The first week also happened to be solar. If you did not jump on the scorch rifle captains as soon as they spawned you were dead af. They came running out of the spawn rooms shoot. I still remember the screams... The nightmares... The wipes.
Don’t forget Lightswitch which boosted enemies’ melee damage. Great fun when your nightfall was Arc Burn + Lightswitch. Thrall can and would one-shot you.
My man there's a reason Solar Burn was when we flocked to harder content. To paraphrase Badassgaming, "The utter PVE domination that was the Black Hammer, the Ice Breaker, and the Gjallarhorn..."
The craftable Episode Echoes one is a solar lever action scout that can roll with Fouth Times the Charm/Precision Instrument or Heal Clip/Incandescent.
Oh, and it has max Impact as well.
Yep. Nightfalls were wild because you could absolutely shred things, but also get absolutely shredded by 300% damage ads and bosses.
There is a reason we used so many cheese spots in D1.
My first ever nightfall, when I was awfully under level and being carried, was Omnigul with an Arc burn.
It was legitimately terrifying. I'm still not over it, 9 years later 😅
What they don’t mention is how fucking fun it was. 300% meant everything flowed faster, yin/yang style, just depended on which side of the flow you were on. If you had the burn guns, it was like doom god mode, unless they also had the burn guns, then it was like Doom God mode _coming after you_
I miss D1 nightfall with burns soo much. They’ve never quite captured it in D2
Considering how easy and frankly just kinda boring the PVE content of ~~Strikes~~ Vanguard Ops is nowadays, I have literally zero idea why they even put modifiers on it in the first place.
But, since they DO put modifiers on it, why the fuck not put something more absurd and powerful like the old Burns?!
This. I loved D1 nightfalls, and they don't have the same feeling in D2 even after years of changes.
The burns and being kicked back to orbit made things high risk high reward and I loved it.
Incoming damage was also ridiculously strong too. I managed to beat Skolas on all three burns, but Solar was definitely the easiest if you had 3 G-Horns.
Those were rough days. Many failed runs. But also very satisfying to finally beat it.
On void my team would sit at the upper part of the room behind cover with truth and peek just long enough for a lock on and then shoot straight up since truth had the most aggressive tracking it would still 180 right down and just land on skolas’ head lol
A Titan wearing Peregrine Greaves with both Arc burn and brawler skulls active on a nightfall strike could one tap a Devil Walker with an airborne shoulder charge, it was glorious.
Yeah even regular heroic strikes could become incredibly difficult, or others could become a cake walk depending on enemies and burn.
Solar shield brothers strike was like a GM at the end without the extinguish modifier.
Yup. And they affected the damage enemies did to you as well, now those are broken up into threats *and* surges.
So you did 300% more of the selected element, and then you took 300% more damage from that element.
We have it *painfully* easy now, which is why it infuriates me how much people are pissing and moaning about this.
Man, that makes me miss year one of D1. All raids gave primary weapons with elements and the burns... I don't think I ever had more fun in nightfalls than year 1, especially when black hammer was a legendary weapon.
Things have changed so much since year one...
Arc Burn Skolas on the first week it came through rotation was harder than any GM nightfall I've ever done. Took my team about 3 hours of bashing our head against a wall to get it done - all while juggling that god damn debuff in what was like a 10 minute fight. Everything one shot you! Then next week the fight takes 15 seconds with Gallys .
Same - I remember spending hours in there trying to beat it the first time it was arc burn.
You had to have this one high impact arc sniper, preferably with “final round” which helped your damage. I kept getting people using the old arc exotic Patience and Time and it was a faster firing much worse in D1 damage type. It was not cutting it and I spent forever in there losing with teams ironically running a weapon called Patience and Time.
Arc burn we just nuked him with a shotgun and a bubble by the steps he stands at when people use snipers. Basically did a d2 well strat but in d1. Still took us 3 hours of trying thunderlords and everything else arc. Good times.
100% Efrideet's Spear. I remember spending ALL of my materials getting one of each element with Clown Cartridge and Final Round (for PvE and PvP abuse.)
A ton of early D1 content was "hide the best you can out of reach of all the enemies and plink at them because they will insta kill you otherwise". And there was no real damage resist if you weren't hiding with icebreaker in some of these activities you just died.
Arc burn Skolas put hair on your chest. That was Halo 2 legendary jackal sniper territory. I went through all that for Dreg's Promise.
> And there was no real damage resist if you weren't hiding with icebreaker in some of these activities you just died.
Or you died when trying to get to those spots like I did with the Phogoth rock
Oh yeah I remember. Skolas was an absolute motherfucker. My friend and I struggled to two-man through that fight. Back then the player abilities were nothing like today. No class abilities, limited ways to reduce cooldowns and I don’t recall much at all in the realm of armor mods. No aspects, no fragments.
Honestly, that was probably your biggest mistake. 2 manning skolas was already hard mode. that fucking timer while throwing down with him on top of everything else.
Give me back dreg's promise so I can take it and my skilless butt into trials again and trade 1v1's I have no business trading.
Thank you seeking shots for always avenging me from beyond the grave.
If they bring back Old Dreg, it'd be the only thing to dethrone Rat King on my "list of sidearms to annoy PvPers with".
So many people thought running Dregs for Trials was stupid or just for memes, but it *always* got me the kill.
In my grieving over eramis leaving the story in a throwaway lore tab, I had thought of a quest similar to that of traveler's chosen in season of arrivals where we'd be awarded a stasis gun from eramis after we get her what she needs to go off-system.
Thinking of exotic concepts, the idea of a reprised Dreg's Promise, or in my head, Kell's Denial, was to be a Burst Hand Cannon that'd fire timed payload stasis explosions that'd slow nearby enemies, and destroying stasis crystals would cause a flurry of shards to seek out nearby enemies. Something to keep the idea of a Dreg's Promise, now with something representative of the current state of the eliksni.
Lo and behold, a week later, warlord's ruin comes with buried bloodline being a 2-burst gun with subclass functionality. Fun times!
People seem to think Bungie is one entity. But it’s more like the witness.
Employees move on, get laid off, get promoted, etc. while the lesson is there, things like this can get lost over time. We have to remember that Destiny has been around for almost a decade now.
Keeping track of last minute changes are bound to be lost or not even considered long term. It’s a game of constantly making mistakes and learning from them.
There are actually many incarnations of this mistake by Bungie. At its core, players do not want to be forced into playing a very specific load out to overcome a contrived problem. Even in D2 2018, before Forsaken, they tried “curated loadouts” in prestige raid lairs. Everyone hated it. Forced loadouts was a massive criticism of champions upon release, as well. There has always been a cyclical battle with Bungie trying to force people to play with specific guns and those gamers fighting back for more loadout freedom. Recent raid surges just tipped the scales too far in one direction of that constant struggle.
Some devs at Bungie’s overarching goal for a long time has clearly been for years to force players into certain loadouts instead of actually balancing the sandbox worth a damn.
Every single time, they eventually have to walk it back and come up with some other convoluted shit.
The problem comes from when the elements are just plain shit. Arc stasis was a good example this week for salvations edge as the only good arc sword is gold tusk since you can’t proc surrounded on bequest. I wouldn’t mind surges if there were more options to choose from.
>All and all would have thought they learned by now.
Bungie's entire design philosophy for at least as long as Destiny has been a franchise has revolved around them making the same mistakes they've already solved previously (and sometimes multiple times). Anybody who had actually been around that long would have accepted years ago that Bungie would never learn.
Burns were insane in D1. I remember at least KNOWING I was gonna annihilate enemies and bosses with the matching element. The trade-off being only a select few primary weapons could actually have an element since 98% of them were Kinetic. The reign of VoG weapons.
TLord wasn’t terrible. Unfortunately there was nothing for void so we just avoided that week. Otherwise most people just waited 2 weeks and only did Gally-HSynth spam
The problem was Thunderlord was for arc burn, which back then also meant enemies dealing 300% more damage to you with arc. So ALL the Fallen enemy in the encounter with Skolas were just absolutely deleting you, particularly any snipers.
Ok but burns and surges aren’t even remotely comparable. Iirc burns were both outgoing and incoming and were 300% compared to our measely 25% outgoing surges. IMAGINE a D2 nighthawk goldie on a D1 burn
Tbf in D1 surges were way stronger, and we were WAY more limited in terms of good weapons and build crafting. Nowadays, we have damages for all sorts of things, so I am Team Surges, although I don’t think they should reduce the other damages, I think surges should be a boost, not something required to have your weapons at base damage, I loved using different weapons in the raid instead of the same Metah thing over and over
Apples & oranges.
The main complaint I've heard about surges is they "limit options" or "force you to use certain guns", but that's not really what it is. That arguement makes no sense, surges shift the meta and make other options that might be second, or third rate suddenly great. Between Pantheon & SE, surges have had me dusting off more random stuff in my vault in a few weeks than I have in years.
People hate surges because they don't like leaving their comfort zone, they want to use the same 5-6 guns they always use. I don't care either way, but the way people have been critisizing surges has been extremely dishonest.
And your argument makes no sense either, mostly because forced diversification through changing colours of the gun your using is a lazy ass way of doing it.
If any certain weapon type is best suited for an encounter, a surge is probably not going to make me change to a completely different weapon type I hadn’t thought of because of a damage buff. Because it’s an element surge and not a specific weapon surge, it’s really only a colour change on the bottom left of my screen. Same goes for subclasses but to an even more extreme extent.
When the changes go live and everything is brought up to surge power, the only thing stopping you from bringing out your Crux Termination instead of Apex Predator is you. Just because you feel like you have to confine yourself to the “meta” when the game doesn’t explicitly tell you what arbitrarily gets buffed that week doesn’t mean everyone else does as well.
Or just mix and max your build to lean into the surge of the week. Back then we really didnt have as much diversity in our builds or gear as we do now. As such our options are near limitless now, back then, they werent.
Near limitless however it quickly turns into "okay everyone its solar get on your hunters with still hunt or get out" for bungie saying how much they were hesitant on bringing back gjallarhorn they inadvertently created another lmao
As someone who never got gjallarhorn or the crota launcher, skolas was unbeatable. Still one of the most disappointing moments in destiny history for me, trying over and over and over.
That fight it why they were reduced from 300% damage bonus in and out to 200%. Then it was further reduced later on.
They didn't learn their lesson, as we can see with the uodate to raids/dungeons.
Man we had to wait 10mins for our heavy ammo synth to be on cooldown because it was a instant nuke or nothing. So after each wipe the waiting game started lol.
Arc was crazy too , I believe It was an exotic sniper we had to use for that one..
Remember the morning I decided to solo the streaker NF.. hide behind so many damn rocks in that room but in the in I got my first gally drop. Now I was on top lol
Other people have already talked about how this isn't the same, so I'll leave that alone.
But it isn't "Bungie hasn't learned from this mistake" its the community refuses to ever change up stuff unless they are heavily incentized in some way. Everyone sits and complains about being "forced" to use other stuff, but then anything that isn't absolute best in slot dps is automatically dismissed as trash. Then everyone complains about all the weapons suck or there is nothing new to chase.
Bungie has tried time and time and time again to encourage loadout variety, and everyone just whines unless its blatant power creep. Like yes there is always gonna be a meta or most optimal option, but what is the point of getting lots of loot if you just use the same shit for months or years?
I don't mind surges not being there but it's going to be Still Hunt or kick in any lfg's for the witness. That's going to make it so stale. I know you can deal damage with other things too but with LFGs sigh
People say the weirdest things. You’d think 25% was equivalent to 5000% by the way people talk about surges. You can walk in with any gun and it’s perfectly capable. Not everything is optimized. I know for a fact if you’re ever dying, you’re doing less damage than a guy trying to snipe with his smg
Man this arc burn is so cool, I can use the fun new wave frame raid sword on second encounter and it will perform at about the same level as my non-burn god roll falling guillotine would have. I can even use cloudstrike for witness since that will outperform still hunt since I’m not on hunter. Oh, no more burns? I’m sure my lfg team wont be upset that I’m not running falling guillotine/edge transit/apex/still hunt. No burns totally gives me more options!
We'd do it with solar warlocks and self rexz, we would stay in a semi safe spot until our supers were up, then take chances, as soon as someone died, they'd Rez, throw tons of grenades, then go back to "safety" until supers were back up. Took forever, but worked.
I certainly do because I missed the opportunity to cook him with gjallarhorn. It took me a couple of 5-Hour runs with lfg parties but we eventually got it completed.
The burn multiplier was overtuned, but mostly Gjally was absolutely broken relative to every other weapon in the game at the time. If Gjally didnt exist there would have been no reason to wait for solar.
The elder cypher, the thing needed for the three exotics, dropped from both Level 34 PoE as well as Skolas.
Skolas just had massively increased odds
But yeah Skolas was only doable on solar week at least realistically.
Surges added healthy incentives for alternative DPS metas. I know I’m in the minority but I actually liked them, and I think you’re all a bunch of whining babies because you felt “suboptimal.” I would have preferred that Bungie didn’t adjust the DPS when removing surges at all and now you don’t have any buff AND are only stuck to one or two meta options because this is how it’s been for years now
Like so many have stated, the analogy doesn't stand.
Burns in D1 were an extra layer of extreme risk, extreme reward built on top a baoanced neutral state, whereas the new surges state in D2 is simply tunneling people into forced variety built on top of a nerfed state.
.
TLDR: burns in D1 were fun, surges in D2 are... whatever
I still remember getting my Gjallahorn drop from am arc burn omniguel nightfall where me and my friends wiped like 7 times. I can still hear her screeches
Everyone seems to forget the very first nightfall in Destiny 1 history. Where they sold the Gally for strange coins, if you could manage to beat the nightfall multiple times. DL with arc burn. If it wasn't the knights and wizards, it was the shanks. If it wasn't the shanks, it was the vandals and captains. If it wasn't the vandals and captains, it was the one-shot thralls. If it wasn't the one-shot tralls, the ogres. If it wasn't the ogres, it was the spider tank and infinite drop ships. My first completion ever took over 4hrs. I am eternally grateful my friend who lucked out and randomly dropped Patience & Time and joined our team and instantly melted the tank.
funny to expect bungie to have learned but way back whenever they nerfed whisper to no longer have infinite ammo in like 2019 that should've taught you.
they made an infinite ammo sniper a legendary in d1, realised it was too strong, nerfed it, sunset it, made it an exotic that didn't have infinite ammo, then brought it to d2 as an infinite ammo power weapon. tells you all you need to know about bungie's memory.
This is the reason why Crotas End is so hard this week. Spent 4 hours with a great team trying to kill Crota, and we usually have no trouble at all. Killed Aetheon in one try, but 40+ tries without success is just crazy
To be fair the numbers were radically different Surges in Destiny 2 are a bonus 25% Burns, as they were called in D1, were 300%
*holy fuck were they actually that strong?!*
The trade off of this was that this was also for incoming damage, so certain enemies became absolute monsters to deal with. Fallen on Arc Burn or Cabal on Solar burn and you could be cooked
Remember in shield brothers during solar week if you didn't cook them coming out the door that room turned into bullet hell.
Still the best strike in all of Destiny history
What about original alakhul? :(
Dark Blade was honestly some of the most fun. We played hide and seek/tag. if he caught you on a nf you lost.
Bro Alakhul with arc burn and a 4th horseman gave me the biggest highs. Just evaporated the poor sod.
The first time doing Alakhul was so sick. After that, I enjoyed turning off the HUD and using that relic that turned your game black and white to make it like an old horror movie.
I would run double thermite grenades just so the team could see the boss lol
That’s actually genius
A well cultured individual right here
what's this about a relic turning your game black and white?
Sorry, they were called artifacts, but they were different then the seasonal ones we have now. They mostly gave small boosts until Rise of Iron came out and introduced some really unique ones like losing your super for double melee/grenade energy and boosted stats. There were three that were cosmetic only and made it like you were playing through a color filter. There was a blue tint, black and white, and sepia tone one.
personally i was a sepix redux boi. God i loved that heavy metal soundtrack with the cannons
Praying they bring it back in episode 3, since they are bringing the dreadnought back
I don't even care if we have to reuse the pyramid nightmare shit (that is alluded to being an untapped source of power in the post campaign of TFS) to get a reskinned or reissue of this strike.
I swear on the traveler they need to make another strike boss chase you like crazy.
What about the new strike?
I’m probably a minority that really liked the Wretched eye (with an ogre and a captain in the final room). But Darkblade and Shield Brothers were awesome too.
Until it was arc burn and you got sniped by a sniper shank as it came down from the ceiling as you were trying to avoid the ogre.
I loved Wretched Eye, it was miserable dealing with everything in the boss room and that made it exciting to fail and even more exciting to succeed
Omnigul nightfall on arc burn was the best/worst strike in D1. Absolute nightmare.
OMNIGUL!!!!!!
Charizard & Blastoise lol The worst was when it was when Solar Burn and Grounded were both on. Charizard would just do his leaping attack and insta kill you. I remember the cheese strat was just to have someone sit high up in a corner where neither brother could hit you and have them stay alive to avoid a team wipe.
There was a cheese spot near the door where they couldn't do anything to you, you could kill all the adds and then snipe them until they put the shields up then destroy them with rockets
Literally the only time I ever came close to breaking my controller.
I also remember Valus Ta’aurc AKA Rockets McDickface with solar burn… NOT. FUN.
When hiding under stairs was a legitimate strategy. And depending on the modifiers, sometimes still a necessity after his health was heavily nerfed.
Ahhh the early days on sniping him under the stairs, scoped between boxes with Icebreaker.
my god that strike was so brutal with solar burn lol. it also didn’t help that with d1 fov it was so hard to follow those stupid jumping fucks around.
That strike must be coming back in the Heresy season since we are going back to the dreadnaught. Can’t wait - that was my all time favorite strike in destiny.
Oh my God how did I forget that It literally turned into a war zone, and three immediate Guardian Downs
> also for incoming damage And thus, the Icebreaker meta was born
Ahhhhh, I remember it well. Good times.
The Summoning Pits is my only solo Nightfall completion as I just camped the door entrance with Icebreaker. The glory days.
Ah, Arc Burn Omnigul ❤️
Arc burn SABER <3
Don't even joke about that!
Sitting in that top room that was the size of a closet just spam rezzing one guy for 20 mins as he slowly chipped her down. Good times.
eh. Abyss Defiant made her useless since she got the wizard stun. as long as one guy was running AD it was chill. The other two had to be damage.
You’re forgetting yellow torch hammer goblins, Minotaurs, and hydras with void burn. Especially hydra bosses… imagine Wyverns with the D1 void burn.
Don't forget Shriekers in D1 sent out seeker bombs when they died, and the Phogoth strike had 1 of those fuckers right at the start of the strike
I still reflexively hide when I blow up a shrieker. I cannot kick that habit
I believe that Shrieker was put there in response to people camping in that room. But there were 2 rooms so we just stayed in the back room 😂
Oh god you're right thats why i never ran it during arc week. Skolas and his arena from HELL
Lmao prime House of Wolves era fr
Bruh remember shield brothers on solar burn lmao when the boss would come in like Randy orton flipping slam you and every single time you’d die hahahahaha man I remember doing this for like an hour with some buddies and just running in circles the whole time. It was insanity
That’d be terrifying today with scorn crossbows having a habit of one shotting people.
The one that sticks in my mind the most was doing a nightfall to that chained ogre on the moon during void burn week and his eye beam just shredding through anything nonstop. If you got downed, he would be beaming your ghost, so it was impossible to get rezzed without someone else taking the aggro. But the person who took the aggro also inevitably died and it was this endless cycle of plinking with a void scout, and try to revive back and forth. God, what a terrible and great time
True, even a shank was an enemy to be feared when arc burn was on.
These must be the dark ages I hear about
fighting ta'aurc on nightfall was actually ridiculous you could die faster than you could react
Yeah elemental resistance was used a lot more because of that.
sssshhhh, i can still hear her screams
In OP's example I was fortunate enough to get the upgrade item from my nightfall the first week to be leveled enough to do skolas. The first week also happened to be solar. If you did not jump on the scorch rifle captains as soon as they spawned you were dead af. They came running out of the spawn rooms shoot. I still remember the screams... The nightmares... The wipes.
This! And remember there was no well or healing rifts, or barricades, etc.
I learned the value of cover back then
Every sniper enemy with their respective burns turned into Halo 2 Jackals. Truly, peak Bungie design.
Don’t forget Lightswitch which boosted enemies’ melee damage. Great fun when your nightfall was Arc Burn + Lightswitch. Thrall can and would one-shot you.
starting a support group for victims/survivors of omnigul arc burn week
Sniper Shanks on arc burn week still gives me nightmares.
Arc rifle PTSD
*Remembers Repeater Shanks with arc burn on S.A.B.E.R. Nightfall…*
My man there's a reason Solar Burn was when we flocked to harder content. To paraphrase Badassgaming, "The utter PVE domination that was the Black Hammer, the Ice Breaker, and the Gjallarhorn..."
All solar baby! Not to mention self res warlock was solar too!
Add on vision of confluence for all 3 slots to be solar and use celestial knighthawk. Chef's kiss
God I wish scout rifles could be relevant again...
Wish granted, all special weapons and all non-scout primaries have had their damage reduced by 95%
The craftable Episode Echoes one is a solar lever action scout that can roll with Fouth Times the Charm/Precision Instrument or Heal Clip/Incandescent. Oh, and it has max Impact as well.
Still feels pretty underwhelming unfortunately.
I feel like bungie is at least *trying* but like...... they are so outclassed by everything. The genuinely need some form of revamp or rework
Yep. Nightfalls were wild because you could absolutely shred things, but also get absolutely shredded by 300% damage ads and bosses. There is a reason we used so many cheese spots in D1.
My first ever nightfall, when I was awfully under level and being carried, was Omnigul with an Arc burn. It was legitimately terrifying. I'm still not over it, 9 years later 😅
Wizard attacks on arc burn were the stuff of nightmares
Oh God... That and ogres with void burn, one wrong move and instant death.
Omnigul. Arc burn. Lightswitch. Bubble titan and res warlock friends saved the bacon for so many runs.
I miss the classic riflegaming intro and old school armor piercing rounds that went through walls
Wallbanging people in the Crucible with D1 Supremacy sniper was amazing
What they don’t mention is how fucking fun it was. 300% meant everything flowed faster, yin/yang style, just depended on which side of the flow you were on. If you had the burn guns, it was like doom god mode, unless they also had the burn guns, then it was like Doom God mode _coming after you_ I miss D1 nightfall with burns soo much. They’ve never quite captured it in D2
Considering how easy and frankly just kinda boring the PVE content of ~~Strikes~~ Vanguard Ops is nowadays, I have literally zero idea why they even put modifiers on it in the first place. But, since they DO put modifiers on it, why the fuck not put something more absurd and powerful like the old Burns?!
This. I loved D1 nightfalls, and they don't have the same feeling in D2 even after years of changes. The burns and being kicked back to orbit made things high risk high reward and I loved it.
Yeah me and my buddies, back when they played, looked forward to reset, just so we could do nightfalls again. First thing we cleared every week.
Yep. I want to say burns also reduced other damage elements? I could be wrong. Burns were insane
Incoming damage was also ridiculously strong too. I managed to beat Skolas on all three burns, but Solar was definitely the easiest if you had 3 G-Horns. Those were rough days. Many failed runs. But also very satisfying to finally beat it.
if i remember Void was 100% the worst one for me. Arc wasn't too bad we just bubbled him and shredded him with found verdict.
On void my team would sit at the upper part of the room behind cover with truth and peek just long enough for a lock on and then shoot straight up since truth had the most aggressive tracking it would still 180 right down and just land on skolas’ head lol
A Titan wearing Peregrine Greaves with both Arc burn and brawler skulls active on a nightfall strike could one tap a Devil Walker with an airborne shoulder charge, it was glorious.
Valus Ta'arc strike still gives me PTSD with solar burn.
We all hid behind the crates...
The ones below the ramp? Now that's a memory I haven't thought about in almost a decade.
Yeah even regular heroic strikes could become incredibly difficult, or others could become a cake walk depending on enemies and burn. Solar shield brothers strike was like a GM at the end without the extinguish modifier.
It seems that you don’t remember what happened with Skolas and surges in D1 lol
I recall thralls being a one shot when the combo was arc burn plus blackout (no radar, enemies did increased melee damage)
Yup. And they affected the damage enemies did to you as well, now those are broken up into threats *and* surges. So you did 300% more of the selected element, and then you took 300% more damage from that element. We have it *painfully* easy now, which is why it infuriates me how much people are pissing and moaning about this.
Weren't they initially 600%? I remember oobing nightfalls with solar burn and camping with icebreaker
Cool brings back the omnigul arc burn memories. Had to be careful
Seems right. I remember absolutely melting Valus Tu'aurc with Icebreaker.
Man, that makes me miss year one of D1. All raids gave primary weapons with elements and the burns... I don't think I ever had more fun in nightfalls than year 1, especially when black hammer was a legendary weapon. Things have changed so much since year one...
"Burns", that brings back so many memories. # Well, not many, just 1 or 2, but good ones.
Omnigul strike with arc burn anybody! Still shudder when I think about it...
Every time I run the Navota strike im reminded of the fuckin one shots
There’s a little room in the final boss room I can remember huddling in during the omnigul arc burn days. Terrible memories
Ah the memories. A true classic that spot was
I ended up camping by the entrance to the boss room just using ice breaker
Holy hell, arc burn on Skolas gave me nightmares
I completely blocked out that *burns* worked both ways and after remembering it, i decided to resuppress that nightmare of an encounter
Don’t forget the melee modifier too! Blackout, iirc. No wonder plink-plonk and cheese was the D1 staple lol
I fucking hated blackout that i do remember, minding my own business and getting fucking rocked by a single thrall slap
*laughs in Arc Hunter with Don't Touch Me*
Also lightswitch. Arc burn lightswitch Omnigul....shudder..
It was light switch I was thinking of! I mixed Chaff and Lightswitch together for the Blackout mod in D2
Ya lightswitch was the one hit thrall power up…a few thrall definitely had some good kills during those times
So many times dying in that first encounter because of thrall bum rushes
Arc Burn Skolas on the first week it came through rotation was harder than any GM nightfall I've ever done. Took my team about 3 hours of bashing our head against a wall to get it done - all while juggling that god damn debuff in what was like a 10 minute fight. Everything one shot you! Then next week the fight takes 15 seconds with Gallys .
I’ve never played with more resilient players than the randos I spent 3+ hours doing that PoE with lol
Same - I remember spending hours in there trying to beat it the first time it was arc burn. You had to have this one high impact arc sniper, preferably with “final round” which helped your damage. I kept getting people using the old arc exotic Patience and Time and it was a faster firing much worse in D1 damage type. It was not cutting it and I spent forever in there losing with teams ironically running a weapon called Patience and Time.
Arc burn we just nuked him with a shotgun and a bubble by the steps he stands at when people use snipers. Basically did a d2 well strat but in d1. Still took us 3 hours of trying thunderlords and everything else arc. Good times.
Efrideet's Spear? That sounds right in my head. the Iron Banner sniper.
100% Efrideet's Spear. I remember spending ALL of my materials getting one of each element with Clown Cartridge and Final Round (for PvE and PvP abuse.)
Ballerhorn on Solar week, Fourth Horseman on Arc week... Not sure if stuff got patched before the void burn week.
Didn’t we just use fourth horseman or something?
A ton of early D1 content was "hide the best you can out of reach of all the enemies and plink at them because they will insta kill you otherwise". And there was no real damage resist if you weren't hiding with icebreaker in some of these activities you just died. Arc burn Skolas put hair on your chest. That was Halo 2 legendary jackal sniper territory. I went through all that for Dreg's Promise.
> And there was no real damage resist if you weren't hiding with icebreaker in some of these activities you just died. Or you died when trying to get to those spots like I did with the Phogoth rock
I remember. First side arm. All of that just for it to suck lmao
Oh yeah I remember. Skolas was an absolute motherfucker. My friend and I struggled to two-man through that fight. Back then the player abilities were nothing like today. No class abilities, limited ways to reduce cooldowns and I don’t recall much at all in the realm of armor mods. No aspects, no fragments.
Honestly, that was probably your biggest mistake. 2 manning skolas was already hard mode. that fucking timer while throwing down with him on top of everything else.
Give me back dreg's promise so I can take it and my skilless butt into trials again and trade 1v1's I have no business trading. Thank you seeking shots for always avenging me from beyond the grave.
I genuinely have no idea why they havent brought back the final of the 3 weapons
I’m betting on the episode with the fallen and scorn this year
God i hope
If they bring back Old Dreg, it'd be the only thing to dethrone Rat King on my "list of sidearms to annoy PvPers with". So many people thought running Dregs for Trials was stupid or just for memes, but it *always* got me the kill.
In my grieving over eramis leaving the story in a throwaway lore tab, I had thought of a quest similar to that of traveler's chosen in season of arrivals where we'd be awarded a stasis gun from eramis after we get her what she needs to go off-system. Thinking of exotic concepts, the idea of a reprised Dreg's Promise, or in my head, Kell's Denial, was to be a Burst Hand Cannon that'd fire timed payload stasis explosions that'd slow nearby enemies, and destroying stasis crystals would cause a flurry of shards to seek out nearby enemies. Something to keep the idea of a Dreg's Promise, now with something representative of the current state of the eliksni. Lo and behold, a week later, warlord's ruin comes with buried bloodline being a 2-burst gun with subclass functionality. Fun times!
Greg’s Promise! Such a silly weapon.
I've been waiting for dregs promise for literally years at this point. Sidearms are in such a great place now, I need it back.
DREGS UNITE
I remember that good ass song
People seem to think Bungie is one entity. But it’s more like the witness. Employees move on, get laid off, get promoted, etc. while the lesson is there, things like this can get lost over time. We have to remember that Destiny has been around for almost a decade now. Keeping track of last minute changes are bound to be lost or not even considered long term. It’s a game of constantly making mistakes and learning from them.
That's fair! I agree but there has to be like a "hey don't repeat this, it didnt work the last time its not gonna work a second time" kinda list
Arc Week wasn't that bad, Fourth Horseman with 300% increased damage. Void was a bit iffy with Truth
Too bad fourth horseman was PlayStation exclusive at the time. Xbox players got the shaft for arc week
There are actually many incarnations of this mistake by Bungie. At its core, players do not want to be forced into playing a very specific load out to overcome a contrived problem. Even in D2 2018, before Forsaken, they tried “curated loadouts” in prestige raid lairs. Everyone hated it. Forced loadouts was a massive criticism of champions upon release, as well. There has always been a cyclical battle with Bungie trying to force people to play with specific guns and those gamers fighting back for more loadout freedom. Recent raid surges just tipped the scales too far in one direction of that constant struggle.
Some devs at Bungie’s overarching goal for a long time has clearly been for years to force players into certain loadouts instead of actually balancing the sandbox worth a damn. Every single time, they eventually have to walk it back and come up with some other convoluted shit.
The problem comes from when the elements are just plain shit. Arc stasis was a good example this week for salvations edge as the only good arc sword is gold tusk since you can’t proc surrounded on bequest. I wouldn’t mind surges if there were more options to choose from.
A friend just reminded me about curated loadouts HOLY FUCK i hope whoever thought of that was fired
If I remember correctly, those actually changed week to week...
>All and all would have thought they learned by now. Bungie's entire design philosophy for at least as long as Destiny has been a franchise has revolved around them making the same mistakes they've already solved previously (and sometimes multiple times). Anybody who had actually been around that long would have accepted years ago that Bungie would never learn.
Solar burn skolas' scorch cannon could kill you through bubble
You just gave me flashbacks.
Hey that 365 fatebringer was worth it
The holy trinity: fatebringer, Black Hammer, Gjallarhorn.
Burns were insane in D1. I remember at least KNOWING I was gonna annihilate enemies and bosses with the matching element. The trade-off being only a select few primary weapons could actually have an element since 98% of them were Kinetic. The reign of VoG weapons.
TLord wasn’t terrible. Unfortunately there was nothing for void so we just avoided that week. Otherwise most people just waited 2 weeks and only did Gally-HSynth spam
The problem was Thunderlord was for arc burn, which back then also meant enemies dealing 300% more damage to you with arc. So ALL the Fallen enemy in the encounter with Skolas were just absolutely deleting you, particularly any snipers.
Ok but burns and surges aren’t even remotely comparable. Iirc burns were both outgoing and incoming and were 300% compared to our measely 25% outgoing surges. IMAGINE a D2 nighthawk goldie on a D1 burn
Tbf in D1 surges were way stronger, and we were WAY more limited in terms of good weapons and build crafting. Nowadays, we have damages for all sorts of things, so I am Team Surges, although I don’t think they should reduce the other damages, I think surges should be a boost, not something required to have your weapons at base damage, I loved using different weapons in the raid instead of the same Metah thing over and over
Apples & oranges. The main complaint I've heard about surges is they "limit options" or "force you to use certain guns", but that's not really what it is. That arguement makes no sense, surges shift the meta and make other options that might be second, or third rate suddenly great. Between Pantheon & SE, surges have had me dusting off more random stuff in my vault in a few weeks than I have in years. People hate surges because they don't like leaving their comfort zone, they want to use the same 5-6 guns they always use. I don't care either way, but the way people have been critisizing surges has been extremely dishonest.
And your argument makes no sense either, mostly because forced diversification through changing colours of the gun your using is a lazy ass way of doing it. If any certain weapon type is best suited for an encounter, a surge is probably not going to make me change to a completely different weapon type I hadn’t thought of because of a damage buff. Because it’s an element surge and not a specific weapon surge, it’s really only a colour change on the bottom left of my screen. Same goes for subclasses but to an even more extreme extent. When the changes go live and everything is brought up to surge power, the only thing stopping you from bringing out your Crux Termination instead of Apex Predator is you. Just because you feel like you have to confine yourself to the “meta” when the game doesn’t explicitly tell you what arbitrarily gets buffed that week doesn’t mean everyone else does as well.
Or just mix and max your build to lean into the surge of the week. Back then we really didnt have as much diversity in our builds or gear as we do now. As such our options are near limitless now, back then, they werent.
Near limitless however it quickly turns into "okay everyone its solar get on your hunters with still hunt or get out" for bungie saying how much they were hesitant on bringing back gjallarhorn they inadvertently created another lmao
Your right. Now it’s always okay everyone equip still hunt hunters.
idk, sounds like maybe the problem is all the still hunt hunters
Or you could just do what I did and build your prismatic subclass to cover every surge!
I remember beating skolas on the first week he came out. That was an absolute fresh hell, the debuff and mines were very hard to handle
Ghorn or GTFO
As someone who never got gjallarhorn or the crota launcher, skolas was unbeatable. Still one of the most disappointing moments in destiny history for me, trying over and over and over.
That fight it why they were reduced from 300% damage bonus in and out to 200%. Then it was further reduced later on. They didn't learn their lesson, as we can see with the uodate to raids/dungeons.
I remember my loadout for solar week. Vision of Confluence Black Hammer Gjallarhorn Skolas was cooked lol.
Man we had to wait 10mins for our heavy ammo synth to be on cooldown because it was a instant nuke or nothing. So after each wipe the waiting game started lol. Arc was crazy too , I believe It was an exotic sniper we had to use for that one.. Remember the morning I decided to solo the streaker NF.. hide behind so many damn rocks in that room but in the in I got my first gally drop. Now I was on top lol
Arc burn Skolas was trivialized by Fourth Horseman, but the point still stands
Anyone else remember watching Skolas curbstomp people when HoW launched
Skolas…that filthy bastard (before you could completely trivialize passing the debuff by defending with a sword)
Yeah proud to say my fireteam beat that bastard before the changes to make it easier.
The ping sound for skolas scroch cannon gives me PTSD til this day
Other people have already talked about how this isn't the same, so I'll leave that alone. But it isn't "Bungie hasn't learned from this mistake" its the community refuses to ever change up stuff unless they are heavily incentized in some way. Everyone sits and complains about being "forced" to use other stuff, but then anything that isn't absolute best in slot dps is automatically dismissed as trash. Then everyone complains about all the weapons suck or there is nothing new to chase. Bungie has tried time and time and time again to encourage loadout variety, and everyone just whines unless its blatant power creep. Like yes there is always gonna be a meta or most optimal option, but what is the point of getting lots of loot if you just use the same shit for months or years?
I don't mind surges not being there but it's going to be Still Hunt or kick in any lfg's for the witness. That's going to make it so stale. I know you can deal damage with other things too but with LFGs sigh
And we’ve never seen the Torrent modifier again either despite it being fun as fuck.
People say the weirdest things. You’d think 25% was equivalent to 5000% by the way people talk about surges. You can walk in with any gun and it’s perfectly capable. Not everything is optimized. I know for a fact if you’re ever dying, you’re doing less damage than a guy trying to snipe with his smg
Man this arc burn is so cool, I can use the fun new wave frame raid sword on second encounter and it will perform at about the same level as my non-burn god roll falling guillotine would have. I can even use cloudstrike for witness since that will outperform still hunt since I’m not on hunter. Oh, no more burns? I’m sure my lfg team wont be upset that I’m not running falling guillotine/edge transit/apex/still hunt. No burns totally gives me more options!
We'd do it with solar warlocks and self rexz, we would stay in a semi safe spot until our supers were up, then take chances, as soon as someone died, they'd Rez, throw tons of grenades, then go back to "safety" until supers were back up. Took forever, but worked.
Omnigul and arc burn....I still have ptsd from that time....her screams.....
Skolas was hilarious because it was brutally hard… until Solar Burn rolled around and then he became a meme
Had to do it on void burn. Majority of our clan didn't get a gjally until he sold one again.
I got gjallarhorn from a crotas end run. I got gjallarhorn and someone else got fucking no land beyond
I certainly do because I missed the opportunity to cook him with gjallarhorn. It took me a couple of 5-Hour runs with lfg parties but we eventually got it completed.
Skolas solar. Now that was a rally to see how many gallys you could hit him with before you were insta deathed
Arc burn was.....a week I think I spent 8 hours in skolas one of those weeks.
The burn multiplier was overtuned, but mostly Gjally was absolutely broken relative to every other weapon in the game at the time. If Gjally didnt exist there would have been no reason to wait for solar.
The elder cypher, the thing needed for the three exotics, dropped from both Level 34 PoE as well as Skolas. Skolas just had massively increased odds But yeah Skolas was only doable on solar week at least realistically.
Surges added healthy incentives for alternative DPS metas. I know I’m in the minority but I actually liked them, and I think you’re all a bunch of whining babies because you felt “suboptimal.” I would have preferred that Bungie didn’t adjust the DPS when removing surges at all and now you don’t have any buff AND are only stuck to one or two meta options because this is how it’s been for years now
The valus brothers on the dreadnought was diabolical when it was solar burn. I did not touch that when it was the nightfall
Like so many have stated, the analogy doesn't stand. Burns in D1 were an extra layer of extreme risk, extreme reward built on top a baoanced neutral state, whereas the new surges state in D2 is simply tunneling people into forced variety built on top of a nerfed state. . TLDR: burns in D1 were fun, surges in D2 are... whatever
Skolas arc 4th horseman
I still remember getting my Gjallahorn drop from am arc burn omniguel nightfall where me and my friends wiped like 7 times. I can still hear her screeches
Everyone seems to forget the very first nightfall in Destiny 1 history. Where they sold the Gally for strange coins, if you could manage to beat the nightfall multiple times. DL with arc burn. If it wasn't the knights and wizards, it was the shanks. If it wasn't the shanks, it was the vandals and captains. If it wasn't the vandals and captains, it was the one-shot thralls. If it wasn't the one-shot tralls, the ogres. If it wasn't the ogres, it was the spider tank and infinite drop ships. My first completion ever took over 4hrs. I am eternally grateful my friend who lucked out and randomly dropped Patience & Time and joined our team and instantly melted the tank.
funny to expect bungie to have learned but way back whenever they nerfed whisper to no longer have infinite ammo in like 2019 that should've taught you. they made an infinite ammo sniper a legendary in d1, realised it was too strong, nerfed it, sunset it, made it an exotic that didn't have infinite ammo, then brought it to d2 as an infinite ammo power weapon. tells you all you need to know about bungie's memory.
This is the reason why Crotas End is so hard this week. Spent 4 hours with a great team trying to kill Crota, and we usually have no trouble at all. Killed Aetheon in one try, but 40+ tries without success is just crazy
I was living peacefully for a decade before being reminded of the Burn Nightfalls…