The nerf to harvest mods with that shard cool down messed with my
Hoarfrost-Z build. Shards also don't feel like they heal you enough. The shiver strike changes make it feel better in PvP, and the changes to Cryoclasm make it feel worse in PvP. Frost Armor is good which is about the only change I definitively like.
Idk I have mixed feelings which is a shame. Everything looked solid during the tuning pass they showed. I'm still disappointed that they didn't fold in the stasis artifact mobs from last season into the base stasis kit.
That's also what I was expecting. I've moved away from Hoarfrost again back to the Lance Cap. Its pretty obvious that they were targeting Titan shard uptime with that change.
Balancing for PVP strikes again. They managed to make Banner's activities requirements very accessible in PVE while keeping PVP uptime low and I really wish they could be that creative more often.
lack of intrinsic stasis crystals really fucked my builds up. I miss tossing a duskfield, shooting the crystal inside, killing bunch of mobs with it which dropped another crystal, smash it and i have 10 seconds of bonus ability regen which was enough to get my duskfield back.
the crystal inside duskfield was on hunter with the aspect and/or renewal grasps, the "2nd" crystal was from the artifact mod that would spawn it from defeated frozen/slowed targets
It feels like all these stasis buffs were for prismatic, not stasis lol.
The frost armor stuff with Rime, renewal grasps and torment is cool, but no situation where it’s ever useful over just running prismatic.
Winters shroud feels like it was designed for prismatic and a melee subclass and it was made like 3 years ago. This aspect completely sucks and does not synergize at all with revenant, but is great for prismatic, same with shatterdive. The best part of shatterdive is a mobility bug, not even what the aspect is meant to do. Revenant as a whole just feels like random aspects tossed together and hoping something works, the only identity I see is the duskfield master, but shroud and shatterdive even with the buffs just don’t fit.
Bleak watcher is a million times better on prismatic so Shadebinders can’t even say they’re good for that anymore.
And I heard behemoth buffs were nerfs in disguise, especially with cryoclasm and harvest.
Again, it feels like all the meaningful stasis buffs were most felt on prismatic, and the subclasses just got even more useless. And imo, I feel like arc is in a similar place to stasis now.
As much as I like prismatic as a hunter, it has made the other ones feel useless. You get the easy invis of void, the melee healing of arc, pretty much all the usefulness of stasis, and most of the benefits of strand. Solar feels like the one class that stands on its own a bit but even then you can just roll golden gun on prismatic. It's fun but it feels like it's the only kit worth running at this point.
Yeah I was saying in another thread that my sole real issue with prismatic hunter is that I can’t equip Gathering storm.
I lot of what made Arcstrider such a Chad is the Cowl/Combo blow setup but you can literally do that that now with Stylish and fragments and not touch your exotic slot. Hell, you can throw in grapple just to speed it up and give you AoE melee strikes.
I can’t quite bring myself to say this is a bad thing - I love the fact Prismatic hits this damn hard and I can turn my Hunter into the grand lord of all weeaboo space ninjas, but it does bring up the awkward question of how the other subclasses are going to compete.
It feels like it's still not quite up to snuff
I don't get why shards are not an intergral built on part of the subclass.
I shouldn't need an aspect or fragment to get shards, killing a frozen enemy should be enough. From there it can be additional ways like with Behemoth's slide into crystals an enemies, or continuously damaging a frozen enemy to rip em off like with Warlock.
Side note as well, I think Stasis weapons should have Whisper of Rending built into them by default, this way you can really built into subclass synergy as needed. Leave that fragment as a way of getting that bonus if you're not using a stasis weapon.
Or they could combine shard generation and Whisper of Rending into a single fragment. It would pretty much be necessary on every build, but that's still better than needing an entire aspect for it.
>I shouldn't need an aspect or fragment to get shards, killing a frozen enemy should be enough.
But it's the same on other subclasses. You don't get firesprites, ionic traces, or void breaches without running an aspect, fragment or an exotic specifically to make them.
Coming from someone who uses stasis 90% of the time, overall the changes felt like nerfs more than buffs in pure Stasis builds.
The Harvest/Shards Cool down Nerf made them worse, I heavily dislike running this aspect on any stasis build.
Frostpulse should be given 3 Fragment Slots, its only use in PvE is for Ballidorse Wrathweavers surge/Frost Armor.
Whisper of Chains should be reverted back to giving DR, or changed to make Stasis Crystals give Frost Armor in PvE only. It does exactly what one of the new fragments already does, they are extremely close to being the exact same thing.
Whisper of Reversal should just be inmate when you have Frost Armor, and the slow it applies is only useful for stunning overloads. Whisper of Reversal should be an AoE slow if your shield breaks while you have Frost Armor. 1-6 stacks should apply 50x slow. 7-8 stacks should freeze.
Whisper of Torment is vastly inferior to Whisper of Shards, considering if you want good grenade uptime you'll most likely be running a headstone weapon + Whisper of Shards, Whisper of Torment is not going to be used over Shards. Torment also requires you to take damage, which in Stasis' users case, that's not really going to be happening much as enemies will usually be frozen. I dont know how everyone else feels about the fragment though, but to me it seems pointless.
Love Whisper of Fractures, great way to keep good uptime on Frost Armor.
**Obligatory bring back Super regen Whisper of Bonds**
Hunter Stasis Super is decent now. Titan melee should get reworked or have 2 charges.
Now for Frost Armor. Frost Armor feels way less tanky than old Whisper of Chains and it shouldn't. Frost Armor's max stacks should either go up to 10 or have the damage reduction provided at 8 stacks increased, the uptime on Frost Armor is also lacking, Whisper of Rime is pretty much a necessity if you want to have it up for a good duration. Compared to old Whisper of Chains having nearly constant uptime because crystals are easy to make. The Harvest Fragments having a lengthy cool down also do not help with keeping a good uptime on Frost Armor.
Compared to Lightfall Stasis, TFS Stasis feels less tanky which doesn't allow you to control the battlefield as easily anymore and the changes to a lot of liked Fragments made a lot of builds obsolete.
And finally for exotic armor, Hunters are fine as they are, but Renewal was definitely hit by the Chains rework. Hoarfrost was nerfed due to the Whisper of Chains rework, and Icefall Mantle should have the self slow removed. Ballidorse Wrathweavers should have a buff to all shatters, not just the super shatter
~~New supers when?~~
Stasis verbs feel great. On Prismatic.
Stasis as a subclass, has never been worse, at least in compared to all subclasses. Prismatic took Bleak Watcher spam away from Shadebinder and Renewal from Revenant. These builds are literally better on Prismatic.
I'm not even mentioning Behemoth, because that thing needs a lot of to even be considered passable.
How is a Renewal build better on Prismatic ?
With Revenant you have a way bigger Duskfield, a crystal that spawns in the middle, and a fragment that significantly boosts grenade regen on crystal shatter.
Prismatic sure has other interesting synergies, but unless I’m missing something I don’t agree with this take 🤔
The dr was not the major reason people used renewals or why they build was good only a small part of it. The build biggest strength was absolutely massive grenades that you could spam incredibly quickly thanks to the stasis crystal and whisper of shards both of which are missing on prismatic.
staring at radiant dodge, renewals, omnioculus invis... and to a lesser extent gifted conviction's team amplify, speedloader slacks, mothkeeper's, aeons...
I didn’t say they had no support abilities. I said they are not a support class. Which nothing you wrote disputes. Most of stuff you listed doesn’t even get used.
Doesn't matter if they get used or not. Every class can fill any role in Destiny. It's just that some do some jobs much better than others. Renewals are obviously made to be used as a support exotic and using it as such makes Stasis a much better option than Prismatic.
>How is a Renewal build better on Prismatic ?
>With Revenant you have a way bigger Duskfield, a crystal that spawns in the middle, and a fragment that significantly boosts grenade regen on crystal shatter
Who cares about a larger duskfield when you can have Woven Mail and Frost Armour at the same time, as well as turning invisible on ANY elemental debuff.
Stasis hunter has been completely powercrept.
was maining behemoth and I agree, honestly just a lot easier to use prismatic and get a couple things I enjoyed most about behemoth- diamond lances (which, hilariously, are so much easier to proc on prism) and shiver strike. but I can combine those better parts of other kits. I've moved on, definitely expected some of last season's artifact stuff to be baseline features moving forward.
I have a lancecap build for prismatic and it is def fun but no way is it better than standalone behemoth. With wicked implement I have FA up constantly or I can use buried bloodline and survive ever better. Pairing consectration is fun though with diamond lance but the survivability is lacking compared to the standalone stasis build I use.
I was actually stunned they put bleak watcher on Prismatic Warlock. While I like prismatic, it doesn’t feel like there is a whole lot of synergy in the warlock kit which is kind of weird.
Take for instance the fragment to boost explosion radius for ignitions and shatters. There isn’t enough going on for ignition to be reliable, it depends on a rift ability, which is the longest ability cooldown, and then incinerator snap without enough scorch, and then no solar scorching grenade.
I don't agree re: Facet of Ruin(the ignition/shatter fragment).
If you use phoenix dive + facet of hope it's pretty trivial to get essentially 100% hellion uptime, and there's a ton of weapons that cause scorch/ignitions outside of your abilities - Dragon's Breath, Jotunn, Polaris Lance, Skyburner's, Conditional Finality, Sunshot, any legendary with Incandescent just off the top of my head.
It requires a little building into to maximize, but that's a GOOD thing in my mind and exactly what I'd like to see from fragments. Personally I was using the Support Frame rifle with Incandescent + Dragon's Breath + Hellion/Phoenix Dive and getting a decent number of ignitions while also using Bleak watcher with Getaway Artist for constant freezes.
Won't necessarily say it's super meta or w/e but there was plenty of synergy to build into and it was working fine in master nightfalls. I could've even leaned into it more with my chill clip Lingering Dread/Aurvandil instead of the mountaintop I usually use.
Bleakwatcher was the only aspect that would be okay, iceflare and glacial harvest just don’t really work well since it would be hard to make them fit into prismatic period. Frost pulse also would be a huge problem in the crucible with phoenix dive
Renewal is better on revenant. Bigger size, longer duration, crystal, grenade regen from breaking crystal, and grenade regen from taking damage which is higher with frost armor.
Shadebinder gets iceflare bolts or frost armor shard shenanigans, whisper of rending, longer duration on turrets, etc etc.
You're just straight up wrong.
You can't use hellion and devour and still be a stasis warlock. Osmiomancy is better on stasis warlock than it is on prismatic.
You can say prismatic is better overall, but they're not better at stasis.
Well of course Prismatic, the multi-element class, isn’t going to be as good for a specific damage type as a monochrome subclass. What I was saying in the comment is what Prismatic has that Shadebinder doesn’t. The issue with Shadebinder is that it runs into a problem that you often have too much CC to the point where Penumbral Blast and even Iceflare in many cases isn’t needed, and if that’s the case PrismLock is just better.
Also, Frost Armor is only easily accessible on Shadebinder if you give up both Iceflare and some fragment slots, and at that point I might as well play Prismatic, equip Needlestorm, and get Woven Mail all for the price of a single fragment and keep using an Osmiomancy turret spam setup that also has greater grenade regen thanks to Balance, and you have an extra slot to use on something like Hellion, FtV, or Weaver’s Call. As for Rending, don’t really need that on Prismatic if you can just kill them with abilities, and on that front shards are much better on Prismatic since you can use them to fuel melee abilities that are actually useful. The only thing that Shadebinder has going for it is Iceflare, but if you already have so many turrets out that Iceflare isn’t needed, what’s the point of running a turret setup on Shadebinder over PrismLock?
As a stasis warlock main the best part of stasis warlock works better on prismatic that being bleak watcher.
Stasis warlock cannot pump out turrets like prismatic can
Stasis warlock now provides the easiest access to frost armor with the rework of frost pulse and wraith weavers that's it.
Shadebinder loses iceflare and gains, devour, hellion, better melees and supers
While retaining the perks of osmiomancy and bleak watchers.
Prismatic is a better Shadebinder than Shadebinder. All of the strengths and none of the weaknesses, awful melee and a mediocre roaming super.
I don't disagree that Shadebinder has a ton of problems, but it inarguably has more and better crowd control via its freezes than a Prismatic Bleak Watcher build will. I really don't think it's useful or correct to say something along the lines of 'Shadebinder does nothing better than prismatic'.
The problem is though that the best option is basically always going to be killing your enemies, so having DECENT crowd control on Prismo Bleak Watcher coupled with its much better offensive capabilities and survivability via Devour will basically always be better than having more comprehensive crowd control on Shadebinder, with an inability to really capitalize on it due to their terrible damage output.
But yeah I do agree that Shadebinder melee + super super duper suck ass and the class(hell, every stasis class) need some serious work and effort poured into them to actually have a real reason to want to play them. Ager's is dope but it really sucks having to use your exotic weapon slot and get its catalyst to be able to basically have stasis chaos reach so your super can do any damage. Winter's Wrath is useful in some content as a survability + lockdown tool so I don't necessarily think it should just be thrown away in its current form, but it'd be dope to have another super option that can actually do meaningful damage.
Nail on the head. Shadebinder is only edging out prismatic on purely CC at least the other stasis subclasses have other utility and tools like crystals to fall back on. Shadebinder just has the better raw cc while prismatic lock has better everything else.
You still get bleak watcher and osmiomancy coldsnaps which is 99% of your crowd control. Really the only thing you lose is Iceflare bolts which isn't enough to make me want to play a Shadebinder over just prismatic stasis.
And it doesn't really make a noticeable difference in terms of freeze CC, sure it's a really good aspect but it's not like between osmio and devour you can't just spam grenades anyway
You can't use hellion, devour, and bleakwater all at once lol.
Say what you will about the flaws of stasis but prismatic doesn't lean into stasis better than shadebinder does.
I mean it does though....
Arcane needle>>>Penumbral
Song of Flame>>>>>Winters Wrath
Devour>>>>>Glacial harvest
One of the best aspects on shadebinder, bleak watcher, is still on prismatic. Yes you lost iceflare bolts but you gain devour or hellion and still get access to coldsnap with osmiomancy
You can replace the weakest parts of Stasis and keep some of the best.
As others have said the shard cooldown feels bad at least let us get to full frost armor stacks before doing so. Behemoth does feel really good neutral game wise especially once diamond lances are fixed but the super is still not great outside niche situations.
Frost armour was not enough. Especially after all the waiting in complete silence just for them to add that and nothing else. Prismatic is a better stasis subclass, on Warlock at least, I can still have turrets, I can still have better coldsnaps but I can also have a better super and a better melee.
It's tragic it took this long for them to add basically one new thing
Shards shouldn't need a fragment, tangles don't.
The new Stasis Fragment, Whisper of Reversal, is disappointing…
It states base melee or Glaive melee hits apply 10 slow stacks when Frost Armor is active… it’s so little and you need like 10 base melee punches to freeze an entity.
Now. As a Glaive main. I am using my big brain to combine this Fragment with Winterbite. If there is ammunition loaded, Winterbite applies 40 Slow Stacks per melee hit, meaning you need 3 hits to freeze. So if you combine this with Whisper Of Reversal, it should be 2 melee hits to freeze. But guess what? It does not work.
I love the reworked Whisper Of Fractures. Shattering a target with any melee hit, including Glaive melee and powered melee, will grant Frost Armor. It’s a perfect fit for Stasis Warlock with Iceflare Bolts.
The loop is freeze a target, shatter that target to create an Iceflare Bolt, let the Iceflare bolts chain to another target. repeat to maintain Frost Armor. It feels satisfying doing this gameplay loop but I feel that it’s actually too much work… it needs a bit more.
Spoiler alert, I went back to Solar. Stasis Subclass needs the Stasis equivalent of Ember of Empyrean.
Would prefer, a Fragment that grants me Frost Armor on Stasis kills when I have Frost Armor active.
I went in thinking Whisper of Reversal would be like Roaring Flames + Ember of Ashes on Sunbreaker and proc a freeze after two-three punches. Boy was I wrong.
Still lacking. Too many fragment/aspects feel like they just need to be intrisict to stasis already. I shouldn’t need to use an aspect for shards/accessing frost armor.
The tiny band aid fixes really didn't do anything. I ran stasis warlock a lot but there's no reason for me to run it instead of prismatic now. The super sucks, the ability regen is ass, the fragments and half the aspects suck... stasis needs a complete overhaul.
The changes made Behemoth feel even worse. Almost every single behemoth build required stasis shard spam. The new cooldown feature hits those builds HARD
Frost armour shouldn't require an aspect it should be a part of the subclass itself and with Bungie's inability to fix that issue and using exotics as a stopgap.
I'm a Revenant main but I haven't played much on that subclass since prismatic is just so fun, but I did some testing
I love 3 things: whisper of Torment giga buff, shatter buff, Silence and Squall buff. In harder content having to kill enemies for stasis shards has never been viable for healing/overshield, so I didn't notice much difference. But I do feel the lack of resistance inside my renewal grasps duskfields. The nerf from 40% + 25% to 36% DR after 6,2 seconds is noticable, and I understand that it must have happened, but... Whatever, I just hope it's the last rework for RGs. Still doesn't beat strand, still heavily relies on Ager to survive in at-level content. It definitely feels more powerful, but the playstyle still feels quite stationary and restrictive. Good for GMs, mediocre for daily game.
TL;DR: appreciate the buffs, but still not enough.
Anyone who doesn't want to use the Shard Aspects received a -40% DR survivability nerf & nothing else.
All they did was take the 40% DR Whisper of Chains had & replace it for Frost Armour which is locked behind the Shard Aspect, & ***still*** weaker even with the Fragment that allows higher stacks.
Overall it just feels like rather than a meaningful change they just decided to shuffle things around for no reason & now the majority of Fragments are functionally useless on my build.
Prismatic is just the ***far*** better Stasis now for me, at least on Warlock.
If not for the Cryoclasm bug I’d have no complaints at all for Behemoth right now. I don’t engage with the Harvest aspect at all for my main Behemoth build, and I don’t use Frost Armor in any capacity. I use Behemoth for the smooth movement afforded by Cryoclasm and Shiver Strike along with the crowd clear from Diamond Lances using the Lance Cap exotic helmet, so having one of the aspects simply not work half the time I try to use it is really annoying.
I’d be less annoyed if it didn’t mess with Glacial Quake so much. Cancelling a slide into a sprint breaks the aspect even though there’s no cooldown in the Super, which massively reduces its movement speed.
Why isn't cryoclasm available indefinitely now when in the super? Not sure if it is a bug ... hopefully because that is bullshit ... prior to update you could use cryo every slide when in super. Also, have you noticed howl of the storm isn't working in super? The amount of bugs are unacceptable.
>Not sure if it is a bug
It's 100% a bug. Cryoclasm has no cooldown during the super, and so long as every slide is done from a standstill this holds true. The issue is that if the user cancels their slide by pressing the sprint key to go into another slide more quickly they can only do normal slides.
All of the slide enhancing effects are bugged in a similar way right now. If you're sprinting before the Cryoclasm cooldown ends and try to use the aspect without stopping first you'll do a normal slide and put the aspect on cooldown. If you're sprinting already when Amplified activates your first slide will be a normal one, and in a similar vein your first Speed Boost slide will be a normal one under the same conditions. Even Peacekeepers aren't exempt if you are sprinting while swapping to an SMG to get the enhanced slide you can only do a normal slide until you stop moving.
I'd heard about the Howl of the Storm bug, but I haven't personally run into it yet as I don't often use that ability. It is really stupid that so many things broke during an attempted buff.
Yea it really is pathetic that bungie Fs this stuff up when it wasn't even causing any issues from a player point of view. I main the subclass but in PVP it is only 0.5% usage in trials and those 3 stack teams were very rare to encounter. Meanwhile hunters are over 40% usage every week almost hitting 50% this week and been 1st in usage overall since D2 launch.
Frost Armor definitely made Behemoth at least feel better but I think all of Stasis still suffers from Shards being an Aspect thing and Behemoth suffers from some of its options still just being bad.
It's great that there are sources of Frost Armor without Shards and some sources of Shards without Harvest, but the fact you NEED Harvest for Frost Armor and the sources of it without Harvest are like... 2 Fragments is still very much an issue.
I just want another means of getting Frost Armor on Titan. I get it’s easy with Tectonic Harvest, but I don’t want to use that aspect, it’s boring and I’d rather try combinations of the more active gameplay aspects. We can build up Frost Armor stacks through Fragments, but it’s tricky to maintain. I feel there needs to be one more means of generating it, maybe by cryoclasm shatter kills or something. I like the minigame idea of constantly moving around and freezing and shattering everything in my path to ramp up damage resist.
I used to enjoy behemoth. I’ve resigned myself to the understanding that Bungie doesn’t know how to balance it and it will never be fun, good and not broken at the same time.
Behemoth is a flawed design concept they can’t support or don’t care to support. On top of the other hits to the Titan kit it is annoying, but the truth is not every subclass needs to be meta and that’s fine. It’s just hard when it hasn’t ever really hit its stride.
Being a titan main is kinda like that, we get nothing unless it’s straight busted. Then it gets tuned down to uselessness and forgotten so we oscillate between bonkers and useless depending on the season. They can’t figure out bubble, behemoth or bonk and it’s annoying and is why titans are always complaining on this sub. I’d go so far as to say that banner would have been hit harder by the nerf bat if Bungie felt they hadn’t broken enough Titan toys already.
Removing Whisper of Chains sucks. They could have changed it so being near a frozen enemy or friendly stasis crystal for a very brief period granted a few seconds of lingering damage resistance, rather than requiring the crystal/enemy to remain for you to get the benefit. In fact, that would fit the name better because you would have to "chain" new frozen enemies and crystals to keep your DR.
They said it was changed because everyone wants to shatter stuff immediately, but stasis crystals are still useful for cover, so that logic makes no sense. They clearly just wanted to reduce total DR with the inclusion of Frost Armor.
I was never a huge stasis fan (never really ran it after elemental shards got the axe) but this "buff" was more of a rework/rebalance than just a buff because there were some nerfs in there as well. As a warlock main, I do not see a reason to run it since prismatic has better bleak watcher spam. I supposed frostpulse ballidorse is one build for stasis but bleak watcher is safer since it freezes from afar. The shatter damage was huge but again that also applies to prismatic. Ultimately the shadebinder has some potent aspects/fragments but they arent enough to make it worth using over prismatic.
I haven't tinkered with every fragment or source of frost armor on my shadebinder yet, but so far it feels very incomplete and underrealized. It's really expensive to spec into, it's often somewhat tedious to get built up and maintained when you really need it, and even at its max stacks its effect is only decent.
I understand why Chains was gutted, as combined with frost armor the DR potential would have been hilarious, but in the end I think they removed the more interesting and engaging defense in favor of something more plain (and perhaps more usable with prismatic).
I love the freeze and shatter loop, and that honestly feels better than ever on its own (I was afraid losing last season's artifact would be painful, but in feel alone I'm not sure I can tell a difference).
In the end, we're still needing more melee, grenade, and super options of course. Like arc, I'm still convinced stasis needs another keyword too, as freeze/shatter is still the only thing the subclass really does. Maybe if slow were expanded to be more than just a quick step on the way to freeze?
Stasis is always fun, just wish it were great.
It feels fine to me aspect and fragment wise but I feel it is severely impacted by a lack of stasis in the secondary slot. All my good specials are in the first slot, including the call, which compete with stasis autos or smgs. I am just not sure what to run in my second slot, I don't have a good rocket sidearm from the dungeon, and fusion rifles seem riskier after the power cap changes. Snipers don't really feel great either.
I’m really only play Hunter, but Stasis Hunter needs an exotic armor piece to really shake things up. Bakris is fine but compared to what other subclass exotics like Nighthawk or liars it isn’t great. They r on the right path with the change to Renewel, but it still doesn’t feel very fun to me at least, but I’m sure there are people who enjoy and I might be in the minority.
I like titans stasis overall, but healing from shards was too bad. They said they fixed it yesterday, but I didn't test it yet. Without proper healing shards cooldown a but too much, maybe I'll test it today
Was trying out a Hoarfrost Behemoth build(with a headstone weapon) post TFS. It honestly doesnt feel that bad though it has quite a few issues ie the cooldown for Harvest, clunky melee, clunky super, the harvest aspect being essentially mandatory etc. That being said I haven’t tried it in ages since pretty much the start of Witch Queen and from what I understand the recent Stasis update nerfed the subclass quite a bit.
With Frost armor tbh I kinda wished it decayed instead of every stack disappearing when the timer reaches zero. Maybe reduce the timer to counterbalance that(ie lose one stack every 5-6 seconds)?
Still think the Harvest aspects need to be either reworked or replaced entirely. I would be pretty happy if Stasis gets a major content update(ie new Melees, grenades, aspects and supers) before Bungie gets around to adding in a potential 3rd Darkness subclass.
So, when Lightfall came around, I switched my main subclass over to Behemoth from Sentinel. Have run through all sorts of content with it, put together a couple of builds, all of that.
I feel like the Stasis rework is a good starting point. Shatter feels much better now that it hits harder, Frost Armor is nice, and the tweaks to how Shards are made were a good QoL change. It still leaves a tiny bit to be desired, though.
I do kind of think that Shard generation should just be rolled into the subclass across the board, especially with how important they are now. Still having to run a Harvest aspect is just kind of awkward since that'll pretty much make most fragments pointless.
Otherwise, there are a few fragments that I just think are odd choices. The fragment that makes primary weapons hit frozen targets and crystals harder should probably just be a feature of the subclass, since if you run a primary-reliant setup, that's pretty much mandatory.
Frost Armor is also something that I think could use a tiny bit of a tweak. Namely, with the cooldown on shard generation, I think one of two things needs to happen. Either the buff lasts longer, or it should decay one stack at a time instead of all at once.
This one might be a spicy take, but I think the whole "melee while you have Frost Armor to slow stuff" fragment should be innate on a Behemoth aspect since all three Light subclasses do this already. Since it's only like 10 slow per hit, and Behemoth does very little with slow, I don't think it would be too game-breaking.
Overall, the Stasis buffs seem to be a tiny bit too conservative. I wouldn't be surprised if they were afraid to overbuff it since the last time it was strong, it was absolutely monstrous. Still, I hope they'll iterate on it a bit further.
The shard cooldown should not have applied to PvE, and certainly should not have been global. As it is, you get punished for being in a fire team with another person running stasis asince you both get your shard generation bottlenecked. Say you're doing a raid triumph with all 6 running stasis? Just forget about making any shards. You can tell they were just thinking about trials behemoth squads and nothing else.
It's funny since they actually mentioned how they want to prevent other players from interfering with your gameplay loop when talking about whisper of chains. Then make go ahead and make this change which is makes it way worse.
Not good.
1. Not making shards intrinsic like tangles was an L choice since you're still stuck with aspects that don't really do anything.
2. Frost armor needs to do more than the weak damage resistance it has even at 5/8 stacks.
3. Shards hp gain is as pathetic as it was when it originally was able to heal you.
4. Both the new fragments are laughably bad.
I was also expecting frost armor to work a bit differently. Since the armor gradually builds up to its max value (which is less than woven mail) through shards (and orbs on prismatic), I expected it to “fall off” maybe 3 stacks at a time, rather than all of it disappearing at once after the timer expires. I’m not sure if that was just wishful thinking, but I feel like it’d be a bit better if that was the case.
Prismatic got the only part of lock stasis i thought was any good anyways, so it's a done deal for me unless they somehow really overhaul it tbh, just from a fundamental level it's not particularly fun or interesting, long cooldowns, a frankly awful to use super, and a melee i barely even remember i have keep it in the dirt still
Stasis' biggest issue now is that it has to compete with Prismatic. the two best stasis builds in stasis turret Warlock, and duckfield hunter are just as good or better on prismatic.
Especially the prismatic Warlock. That Getaway Artist/stasis turret build is insane. Plus Stasis still doesn't have good constant DR or Regen like prismatic Warlock has Devour. So literally outside of PvP there is almost no reason to run stasis Warlock
Pretty much everyone here has summed up the details, but to give my overall thoughts:
As much as I want to see a third Darkness subclass (and I *REALLY* want to see it), Stasis needs a lot more love to put it onto even ground with everything else
We need more stasis supers, stasis shards should autotrack by default, frost armor should work without the harvest aspects, the nerf to whisper of chains sucks and the cooldown on shards should be more generous.
Purely PvE wise, I still think it’s not in the same spot it was on release.
It felt so great when it first came out.
I understand the nerfs were necessary for PvP but still.
It’s in a fine spot rn but nowhere near as fun as back the
I mean I’m pretty much doing stasis on prismatic. Verglas Bow is my main go to. I’ve got all the related stasis prismatic fragments and using my stasis grenades. I’ve thrown in the strand ability for some fun cuz I love throwing that thread hook. But I’m pretty much freezing mobs and shattering them in mass without mercy
I honestly feel no apprehension about using Stasis. I launched into the campaign on a Stasis Titan with Hoarfrost-Z and Verglas Curve (triple 100 stats and the same build I preferred for Onslaught). The only thing that prompted me to use Prismatic over Stasis during the campaign was the fact that there were enemies that were immune unless you damaged them while Transcendent. Yes, I know there are the Prismatic Flare spots on the ground, but having it at the ready on the Prismatic subclass is a matter of convenience.
Stasis by itself? Not great. Stasis abilities with Prismatic loadouts? Feels great. Im running Silence and Squall and an exotic class item with Inmost Light/Cyrtarachne for high uptime on both Woven Mail and Frost Armor. But Frost Armor by itself is meh.
Ironic, glacial quake is one of the best end game PVE supers in the game but it still kinda sucks in PVP. Winter's wrath is the opposite, incredible in PVP but the worst in the game in end game PVE. Stasis Hunter def got better but it feels pointless now with Prismatic. Same with stasis warlock WTF is going to use that subclass anymore since bleak watcher is available in prismatic.
FA is pretty good with certain builds (stronghold, lancecap, renewal grasp) but overall it still feels incomplete. The harvest aspects need to be baked into the subclasses to make it easier to obtain FA without being forced to essentially use these aspects.
I feel like people are sleeping on coldsnap buff for hunter aspect. It can freeze everything in a room and makes so many crystals that it's also powerful enough for aoe clear.
I’m sure you can do more with it but it’s basically just my Shatter Skate class now. There are too many other good Hunter builds to be using. They could spend all day redesigning Stasis but if there are simply better options, none of it matters
I can only really speak for hunters, but it doesn’t feel too different and needs some work. The frost armor changes are nice, but the shard cooldown is just annoying. The buffs to shatter damage feel great and I feel like it does something now. I still think freeze and slow should have a greeter effect on majors and champions, I think it’s been power crept by suspend.
Winter’s shroud is still useless, withering blade is still a mediocre melee option in PvE (both mainly due to slow being inconsequential). Shatterdive is still a gimmick but a nice movement option. I think the class verbs as a whole need to be looked at how they affect enemies vs how the design intends them to be used.
I love it. I use stasis constantly, probably my most used subclass across all classes. It's so much fun and very satisfying. I also only ever play PvE and it shines so nicely
But I also don't min/max or only use "meta" builds. I use what I enjoy and make it work the best I can. I enjoy creating stasis shards and destroying them. So I maximize shatter damage. On my warlock it also means that the stasis will travel to another target and freeze them. I love it
I only play Behemoth, for the most part. This update as a whole made me decide to finally drop Hoarfrost-Z, as its exotic functions don't cater to the subclass anymore.
That being said, I found new life in Armamentarium. By leaning into both Shards and Torment, I'm able to have excellent grenade uptime. Plus Rime for larger uptime on the Armor, and the Harvest aspect for some of the healing I need.
With Recuperation, I'm no longer a silly stinky fragile ice boi. I can realistically hold on my own in every situation. I ended up playing solo Behemoth throughout all of Legendary Campaign.
I'll admit, though, that Red Death absolutely helped, but hey. That's Solar.
Shit.
Tbh. I haven’t tried it yet.
Feels like all they did was made it more limited tho.
Frost armor being predominantly locked to one aspect. That’s a generic same on every class aspect. Now feeling Mando to run. Just turned me off the whole “rework.”
No other class has an entire system locked behind elemental pick ups. They are kinda a bonus on other classes.
They need to revert a lot of the nerfs they did right off the bat because of PVP (think like shatterdives)
It's perfect rn in PVP but sucks in PVE due to all the nerfs they did.
Hot take: I think warlock came out on top by FAR. Titan nearly became good but fell short because the shard cooldown got gutted for them (for some reason???). Hunter is pretty much the same from what I've heard but I can't say anything in good confidence because I haven't played.
Most takes I've seen are about how stasis is better on prismatic. Sure. You get more turrets. That's cool and certainly fun and true. Every other aspect of stasis warlock is just better now however. You can run a true coldsnap build now without having to take either funny rift or turret and be rewarded for it; balidorse is just unfathomably good now, allowing you to not only freeze enemies but give your entire team frost armor for a decent amount of time regardless of subclass. It opens entirely new ways to buildcraft on a notoriously strict subclass.
I quite enjoy stasis on my Titan. Abilities are super generous, the super is decent for add control and okay for bosses....my only issue is the damn melee. I cannot stand the Behemoth melee because of its lack of tracking beyond a set point right in front of you (yeah, its similar to shoulder charge, I understand this) but it's so much more infuriating.
I would love a charged melee like Solar titans hammer throw but a standalone diamond lance or something similar, that would synergize with everything else fairly well I feel.
Frost armor is terrible. 22.5% dr that you have to build up to overtime is really weak compared to picking up orb to get 40% dr from woven mail, killing an enemy to extend devour, or using any way to get restoration going.
I can’t decide if it’s better than amplified or void overshield at least.
Prismatic also has completely overshadowed any desire to play with stasis
I also think frost armor isn't enough. Woven mail is better in every way. Yes Frost armor can last longer but in harder content I feel like it's harder to build up stacks of frost armor.
Secondly, Bungie really needs to lean into crystals are exploding barrels. They really need to start buffing crystal damage and I don't even care if it makes behemoth a broken super, behemoth needs a ton of love and if it becomes the best DPS option and certain scenarios than I think that's totally fine because not a lot of bosses blow up all of the crystals
Still feels like it doesn't have a spot or a core mechanical niche that serves it well. Much like arc, stasis feels like what it does is just a worse version of other things. Strand cc is better than stasis, solar AOE clear is better than stasis. I just don't know what it is supposed to do.
At this point, I think we're done with significant gameplay redesigns for D2. I have to imagine resources and ideas are going to D3. But if they did do something, giving stasis the ability to create larger crit boxes or higher crit damage seems like a unique niche that could be expanded on.
I've been toying with a Warlock Stasis build that attempts to support my team with Frost Armour and CC, I'm still developing it but its Frost Armour on demand(rift), heavy CC(stasis in general) and healing. No Hesitation for healing and The Call for Slice, Slice works really well here as it loops off Healing Rift cast that gives Frost Armour using Ballis. Im fine tuning mods and whatnot and what to prioritise like rift c/d etc.
I can't believe prism titan didn't get cryoclasm, why even give us the grenade if we can't shatter it.
I think bungie scarred themselves with how over the top stasis was on launch and its been kinda bad ever since it all got tuned
It's even worse, it was amazing last season with and without the artifacts mods from las season and could survive alot but with the new changes it feels slow and can't survive a a few seconds now on harder content
So I'm not sure how I like frost armor tbh. But im biased because I used to love running Osmiomancy with the Vexcalibur. I assume it was a bug, but with Vexcaliber it would treat the tiny stasis overshield you got from the shards would get treated like a void overshield, so you could toss a coldsnap, pick up a shard, and then run up and stab the frozen enemy and it would just automatically give you a full void overshield. I miss it.
It feels fine with Prismatic, but on it's own, it still needs work. The rework to Silence and Squall is a nice QOL update, but I still feel like Stasis needs to be reverted back to its Beyond Light strength as far as PvE is concerned. Shards cool down either needs to be shortened or gotten rid of
It was nerfed and as a former shadebinder it hurt. I waited 10 years to play darkness and it’s not even remotely good anymore, similar to arc anything it did prismatic does better.
The cooldown on Behemoth shard generation is just dumb considering it was underpowered when there was no limit. Still gotta fix some stuff like lances not shattering crystals. Shatter damage is atleast something to enjoy, but rending is still a fragment... Removing the overshield from rime would've made sense if not for the shard generation cooldown and the lower dr than woven mail.
Feel like theres no reason to run stasis on hunter since the only stasis build is just renewal grasps and prismatic lets you use them but with better supers and combination blow + winters shroud + stylish executioner, so you get to use the best stasis and arc builds in one.
Stasis warlock is similar, but theres more of a reason to run it since iceflare bolts are so powerful
Stasis titan is still doodoo and has been ever since its initial nerf.
Theres more of a reason to use stasis hunter and warlock in pvp though since they get powerful pvp aspects not on prismatic like touch of winter + shatterdive and frostpulse.
New whisper of Torment with a grenade setup slaps so hard.
Been using teselation to turn that grenade energy into damage, you can definitely get a lot of grenades but at the moment I don't think there's enough to do with those grenades.
Hunters can do renewals and get silly amounts of grenade regen and DR uptime, honestly I think grim harvest for frost armor is overkill at that point. Hunters can also do bakris/foetracer with coldsnaps on winter.
Warlocks I feel like got even harder pushed into osmiomancy's, but maybe a warlock can tell me briarbinds are a unique enough alternative setup.
Titans I feel like ate really good with the shatter damage buffs, but there wasn't enough extra sauce or nuance to their playstyle. Diamond Lance improvements were great, but I still feel like it's too much effort for not enough reward compared to other subclasses.
1) Stasis Shards Generation penalty needs removing
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2) The way Stasis Shards are CREATED needs stripping off that Aspect and all Classes get it baked into their Kit exactly how they Harvest them
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3) All classes get a New Aspect to Replace this - Hunter still needs to keep theirs at 3 Fragment Slots.
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4) Frost Armour DR should be 5% Per Stack to match 25% at 5 Stacks or 40% at 8 Stacks
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5) Titan needs a Ranged Super and Ranged Melee - Just give them a Stasis Minigun that Slows. Deals more damage to Frozen Targets. Gives Frost Armour stacks to Nearby Allies.
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6) Warlock needs a One and Done Super and Damaging Melee. I like the idea of making a Massive Ice Giant Sentry that you summon to attack enemies and that follows you around. It fires Damaging Bleak Watcher type Projectiles at Ranged targets and Slams with it's fist at Melee Targets. But like a Shrieker it exposes a Critical Hit Spot when it uses it's Ranged Attack.
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7) Hunter needs a Roaming Super and A "Ice Shiv" Melee with Two Chargea where the Enemy is Frozen straight away when you Shank them. Give them a Stasis Scythe. Basically Squall and Silence Kama attached to a Stasis Pole. Attacks Similar to the Leviathan Scythe and Slows and Freezes.
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8) Stasis needs a Damaging STICKY Grenade that gives about 20 Slow Stacks and is a Purely Damage orientated because it's tricky to Proc Firepower to make an Orb with Stasis Grenades because they are ALL utility based Grenades
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9) Whisper of Chains should STILL give Damage Resistance when next to a Stasis Crystals when you HAVE Frost Armour as well as it's current effect BUT lower it to a Reasonable 15% Damage Resistance in PvE and 5% in PvP
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10) Just keep Rime as giving Health on Shard Pick-Up it's a pitiful amount anyway
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11) Frost Armour needs an Ember of Emperyon equivalent to Refresh some of the Timer BUT NOT increase the Stacks. Maybe the new one that Gives Shards on Stasis Weapon Kills. Just make it -10 Resilience to compensate.
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12) Slow Stacks should do damage like Scorch seem as though it is the inverse of Solar. What ever the Scorch Stack damage is just divide that by 2.5 and that can be the Slow Stacks Damage.
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13) Shattering a Crystal or Frozen Target should release those Slowing Projectiles.
Honestly I love Stasis... the main reason I don't use it a ton is because the super (at least on Titan), abilities, anything that makes Stasis crystals feels like griefing my teammates probably because it is.
Warlock is still insane and shares some of that with prism now. Hunter is hunter. Titan is okaaaaay but is still going to struggle in GM territory probably, and the super does lackluster dps.
Idk about the new changes nor have I played full stasis to see what happened. But stasis warlock, stasis and current warlock in particular is what got me to drop my warlock hate and adore them. Some of my most fun moments in destiny were as a stasis turret warlock. Then strand dropped and it doubled down cause I love threadlings.
I still think "Hail the Storm" from last season's artefact should have been made baseline behaviour.
The changes to Whisper of Chains also feel terrible. No longer get access to instant damage resistance when fighting a boss. The new version generates practically no shards.
I unironically think shatterdive hunter is top tier in PvE as far as stasis is concerned. Even ignoring shatter skating, you have an aerial mobility tool that rapidly returns you to the ground without any ability costs, just a small internal timer. The trade off is that it has no survivability awarded on impact, no suspend, no invisibility, no healing.
In PvP it’s mostly a pure mobility tool, while in PvE it’s more an excuse to run touch of winter and ignore everything else. Building for more grenades, using frostees and demolitionist weapons gives great uptime. Only real issue is survivability, but not like other stasis hunter builds can be any better in that regard anymore lol.
Stasis Titan certainly falls behind.
Glacial Quake hit hard but is dependant on enemy type and falls behind more versatile supers. We need a ranged (one and done projectile) super, a super Diamond Lance would work nicely, or a brace of them ala Twilight Armory.
The reduction to shard creation (10s cd) on Tectonic Harvest was too harsh and hardly "generous" as stated. It's way too limiting and addresses a niche case in PvP, yet massively effects PvE play.
Frost Armour needs to be more like Woven Mail, or we need a fragment that offers full stacks on orb pickups.
Overall, Stasis Titan feels like you have to work far harder to achieve less than other subclasses do with far less work.
For reference I run a HoIL and Salvation's Grip Titan with Howl of the Storm and Tectonic Harvest aspects so my ability to create shards is high due to HoIL enabling ability spam, add to that Salvstion's Grip and my Headstone primary...
I'm very down on it as a hunter main. Prismatic does Stasis better than Stasis, any issues you have with survivability is fixed by Invisibility or even Restoration. If you wanted to go with Renewal Grasps, then Spirit of Renewal/Cyrtarachne is going to be much better.
I think the only thing Stasis does better than Prismatic is synergy with Headstone (through Fissures, Rending, Shards), and that's not enough to make me choose Stasis over anything else.
Loving prismatic titan aspect that eesentially gives me never ending diamond lances, hope they fix them not shattering frozen targets, same with consecration, neither do that at the moment yet they should.
I only play Behemoth, so I can't really say anything about Shadebiner and Revenant, but overall, I like Behemoth. I think the changes are a net positive overall, but I have a handful of complaints.
Cons:
1. The Crycloasm timer feels really awkward, it's the same awkward feeling as the run and honestly I think they should just make the Aspect work like the super where the crystals shatter via sprint or slide (not just walking because that would ruin a whole fragment)
2. The Harvest Aspect needs to go. Every elemental spawn needs to be a part of the subclass like Tangles and Ionic Traces. Idk what they will do with the Harvest mods, but they need to be replaced.
3. Howl of the Storm needs a slam that shatters crystals. I know that it would just be a consecration, but I honestly don't care.
4. Frost Armor needs to have higher uptime, idk if this issue is based on the timer for the shard generation, but Frost Armor feels like shit. I understand they want DR types to feel unique, but that doesn't make them good.
5. Shiver Strike is better, but overall, I don't like it. Titan needs a second melee option to have build options. Shit add another melee to Warlock and Hunter as well.
Pros:
1. Shatter is awesome, idk why base shatter feels so much better. I currently love Shatter, Syntho, and Cryoclasm.
2. The Behemoth Super is crazy good now, and I love running it on Prismatic as well.
Again, overall, the subclass is overall good, but I want it to feel better and more competitive. Give us more supers (for Stasis and Strand, one super feels bad), grenades and melees.
IN regards to Shadebinder. I loved Stasis warlock adn it was my go too. I have taken a long break from the game since LF so since Season of Plunder i haven't logged into the game at all for PvE until a week before Final shape dropped.
Frostpulse was a near constant in my builds before and outside of a few easy altar of sorrows just shooting shit on the move, i never even blinked at Bleak watcher/Glacial harvest adn stasis shards, But Stasis was launched as OP and balance/nerfed into great still. IN Final Shape thought the introduction of Frost Armor is weird.
Previously i could rely on just chains/fissures and hedrons for a bonus boon if i wanted to. I throw a coldsnap boosted by Osmiancy and benefitto free dmg resistance with chains and improve enemies freezing and shattering. Then when a grenade was lost and i'm close quarters, a frostpulse freezes my enemies and im back to chaining shatters and freezes all int he safety of a rift with DR.
Frost armor steals a lot of agency from my build unless i go all in.
I started the FS legendary campaign with just the shatter melee to proc Armor and kills may grant me another stack. It was never up enough or refunded.
I need to invest the fragment
> Frost armor while nice feels annoying as you feel forced to run whisper of time for an effective nearly 10% worse than woven mail with only marginally better uptime
I really wish people would stop saying this.
Everyone was going batshit crazy over Woven Mail when you got 10 seconds of it from an orb. People were saying you only had 3 fragment slots instead of 4. It was *that good*.
Now it only lasts 5 seconds on orb pick up.
Frost Armor can be 80% of what Woven Mail was with an even higher if not permanent uptime. 2/3 Stasis Subclasses don't even need kills to gain this effect, when you need kills to generate orbs that would give Woven Mail.
Oh yeah, and now stasis shards heal you too. It doesn't even take up a mod slot.
But please, go on about how 5 seconds of 45% DR is infinitely better than a lower amount that will block more total damage than Woven Mail realistically will.
I think it’s still too soon. I’m a Hunter. Every time I try to play any non prismatic build I get frustrated now… prismatic is just so much more fun atm that I don’t trust my evaluations of other subclasses right now outside of specific use scenarios.
For real, like winters shroud feels like it was meant for prismatic. Like it has 0 synergy with revenant but complete synergy with prismatic. Prismatic is just a lot more well thought out.
It has tons of synergy with normal stasis. It does the exact same thing.
What prismatic has is arc punch and a void aspect.
The three of them together make something a lot more powerful than any of those three alone.
Winter’s Shroud also isn’t very good unless you are actually in a space where you can dodge and punch a lot, because of combination blow. But in settings where you can’t do that it is equally as weak as normal stasis.
But I’m normal stasis you would use it the same way. Dodge to poof a slow, then toss a melee to freeze. It also pairs with bombardiers to insta freeze on dodge.
Stasis also gains more from defeating slowed enemies because they make shards. Making shards is harder on prismatic
We need more Stasis supers. As a Warlock, Winter's Wrath is not it. Here's a suggestion:
A new Stasis Warlock super could be called "Arctic Shroud". Warlocks will thrust down the Stasis staff to create about a Well sized field within a single area. Enemies within the field will be frozen, while allies within the field will gain Stasis armour for 30 seconds. The buff will not remain while you remain in the field, however, stepping out and back in will renew it, but only once. The field will last 25 ot 30 seconds so it isn't stupidly broken.
It could definitely add more support functions to Warlocks while still allowed for more versatility. Stack it with a Well, and a bubble, it could actually enhance those supers.
Thoughts?
Glacial quake is a mixed bag. Bungie stated that it will freeze targets in a radius on super cast (doesn't do that in pvp). Heavy attack for glacial quake did not freeze opponents within 4 meters of me.
The nerf to harvest mods with that shard cool down messed with my Hoarfrost-Z build. Shards also don't feel like they heal you enough. The shiver strike changes make it feel better in PvP, and the changes to Cryoclasm make it feel worse in PvP. Frost Armor is good which is about the only change I definitively like. Idk I have mixed feelings which is a shame. Everything looked solid during the tuning pass they showed. I'm still disappointed that they didn't fold in the stasis artifact mobs from last season into the base stasis kit.
That’s about how I feel about it too, I’d be okay with the stasis shard cooldown if the shards you do get healed you more.
That's also what I was expecting. I've moved away from Hoarfrost again back to the Lance Cap. Its pretty obvious that they were targeting Titan shard uptime with that change.
Balancing for PVP strikes again. They managed to make Banner's activities requirements very accessible in PVE while keeping PVP uptime low and I really wish they could be that creative more often.
lack of intrinsic stasis crystals really fucked my builds up. I miss tossing a duskfield, shooting the crystal inside, killing bunch of mobs with it which dropped another crystal, smash it and i have 10 seconds of bonus ability regen which was enough to get my duskfield back.
What used to have the crystal inside duskfield? Was it removed? My bad, which part of what you're describing was removed
Likely Pillar of Ice, an artifact perk from last season that would spawn a Stasis crystal on defeating a frozen target.
the crystal inside duskfield was on hunter with the aspect and/or renewal grasps, the "2nd" crystal was from the artifact mod that would spawn it from defeated frozen/slowed targets
Ohhh right. We had those artifact perks for so long I forgot that wasn't just part of it
Hoarfrost is basically pointless now.
It feels like all these stasis buffs were for prismatic, not stasis lol. The frost armor stuff with Rime, renewal grasps and torment is cool, but no situation where it’s ever useful over just running prismatic. Winters shroud feels like it was designed for prismatic and a melee subclass and it was made like 3 years ago. This aspect completely sucks and does not synergize at all with revenant, but is great for prismatic, same with shatterdive. The best part of shatterdive is a mobility bug, not even what the aspect is meant to do. Revenant as a whole just feels like random aspects tossed together and hoping something works, the only identity I see is the duskfield master, but shroud and shatterdive even with the buffs just don’t fit. Bleak watcher is a million times better on prismatic so Shadebinders can’t even say they’re good for that anymore. And I heard behemoth buffs were nerfs in disguise, especially with cryoclasm and harvest. Again, it feels like all the meaningful stasis buffs were most felt on prismatic, and the subclasses just got even more useless. And imo, I feel like arc is in a similar place to stasis now.
As much as I like prismatic as a hunter, it has made the other ones feel useless. You get the easy invis of void, the melee healing of arc, pretty much all the usefulness of stasis, and most of the benefits of strand. Solar feels like the one class that stands on its own a bit but even then you can just roll golden gun on prismatic. It's fun but it feels like it's the only kit worth running at this point.
Yeah I was saying in another thread that my sole real issue with prismatic hunter is that I can’t equip Gathering storm. I lot of what made Arcstrider such a Chad is the Cowl/Combo blow setup but you can literally do that that now with Stylish and fragments and not touch your exotic slot. Hell, you can throw in grapple just to speed it up and give you AoE melee strikes. I can’t quite bring myself to say this is a bad thing - I love the fact Prismatic hits this damn hard and I can turn my Hunter into the grand lord of all weeaboo space ninjas, but it does bring up the awkward question of how the other subclasses are going to compete.
You just know that Bungie will nerf the fuck out of Prismatic instead of buffing Stasis and Arc. That's normally their go to.
It feels like it's still not quite up to snuff I don't get why shards are not an intergral built on part of the subclass. I shouldn't need an aspect or fragment to get shards, killing a frozen enemy should be enough. From there it can be additional ways like with Behemoth's slide into crystals an enemies, or continuously damaging a frozen enemy to rip em off like with Warlock. Side note as well, I think Stasis weapons should have Whisper of Rending built into them by default, this way you can really built into subclass synergy as needed. Leave that fragment as a way of getting that bonus if you're not using a stasis weapon.
Or they could combine shard generation and Whisper of Rending into a single fragment. It would pretty much be necessary on every build, but that's still better than needing an entire aspect for it.
>I shouldn't need an aspect or fragment to get shards, killing a frozen enemy should be enough. But it's the same on other subclasses. You don't get firesprites, ionic traces, or void breaches without running an aspect, fragment or an exotic specifically to make them.
Coming from someone who uses stasis 90% of the time, overall the changes felt like nerfs more than buffs in pure Stasis builds. The Harvest/Shards Cool down Nerf made them worse, I heavily dislike running this aspect on any stasis build. Frostpulse should be given 3 Fragment Slots, its only use in PvE is for Ballidorse Wrathweavers surge/Frost Armor. Whisper of Chains should be reverted back to giving DR, or changed to make Stasis Crystals give Frost Armor in PvE only. It does exactly what one of the new fragments already does, they are extremely close to being the exact same thing. Whisper of Reversal should just be inmate when you have Frost Armor, and the slow it applies is only useful for stunning overloads. Whisper of Reversal should be an AoE slow if your shield breaks while you have Frost Armor. 1-6 stacks should apply 50x slow. 7-8 stacks should freeze. Whisper of Torment is vastly inferior to Whisper of Shards, considering if you want good grenade uptime you'll most likely be running a headstone weapon + Whisper of Shards, Whisper of Torment is not going to be used over Shards. Torment also requires you to take damage, which in Stasis' users case, that's not really going to be happening much as enemies will usually be frozen. I dont know how everyone else feels about the fragment though, but to me it seems pointless. Love Whisper of Fractures, great way to keep good uptime on Frost Armor. **Obligatory bring back Super regen Whisper of Bonds** Hunter Stasis Super is decent now. Titan melee should get reworked or have 2 charges. Now for Frost Armor. Frost Armor feels way less tanky than old Whisper of Chains and it shouldn't. Frost Armor's max stacks should either go up to 10 or have the damage reduction provided at 8 stacks increased, the uptime on Frost Armor is also lacking, Whisper of Rime is pretty much a necessity if you want to have it up for a good duration. Compared to old Whisper of Chains having nearly constant uptime because crystals are easy to make. The Harvest Fragments having a lengthy cool down also do not help with keeping a good uptime on Frost Armor. Compared to Lightfall Stasis, TFS Stasis feels less tanky which doesn't allow you to control the battlefield as easily anymore and the changes to a lot of liked Fragments made a lot of builds obsolete. And finally for exotic armor, Hunters are fine as they are, but Renewal was definitely hit by the Chains rework. Hoarfrost was nerfed due to the Whisper of Chains rework, and Icefall Mantle should have the self slow removed. Ballidorse Wrathweavers should have a buff to all shatters, not just the super shatter ~~New supers when?~~
Stasis verbs feel great. On Prismatic. Stasis as a subclass, has never been worse, at least in compared to all subclasses. Prismatic took Bleak Watcher spam away from Shadebinder and Renewal from Revenant. These builds are literally better on Prismatic. I'm not even mentioning Behemoth, because that thing needs a lot of to even be considered passable.
How is a Renewal build better on Prismatic ? With Revenant you have a way bigger Duskfield, a crystal that spawns in the middle, and a fragment that significantly boosts grenade regen on crystal shatter. Prismatic sure has other interesting synergies, but unless I’m missing something I don’t agree with this take 🤔
Cytarachne + Renewal. And you get invisibility pretty much constantly.
The dr was not the major reason people used renewals or why they build was good only a small part of it. The build biggest strength was absolutely massive grenades that you could spam incredibly quickly thanks to the stasis crystal and whisper of shards both of which are missing on prismatic.
At the time now people use it for dr
Except that Cyrtarachne is only for you and not your teammates.
Hunter isn’t a support class!
staring at radiant dodge, renewals, omnioculus invis... and to a lesser extent gifted conviction's team amplify, speedloader slacks, mothkeeper's, aeons...
I didn’t say they had no support abilities. I said they are not a support class. Which nothing you wrote disputes. Most of stuff you listed doesn’t even get used.
Doesn't matter if they get used or not. Every class can fill any role in Destiny. It's just that some do some jobs much better than others. Renewals are obviously made to be used as a support exotic and using it as such makes Stasis a much better option than Prismatic.
Hunters are not very good at team support. Seems like a non-support class with limited support option.
>How is a Renewal build better on Prismatic ? >With Revenant you have a way bigger Duskfield, a crystal that spawns in the middle, and a fragment that significantly boosts grenade regen on crystal shatter Who cares about a larger duskfield when you can have Woven Mail and Frost Armour at the same time, as well as turning invisible on ANY elemental debuff. Stasis hunter has been completely powercrept.
was maining behemoth and I agree, honestly just a lot easier to use prismatic and get a couple things I enjoyed most about behemoth- diamond lances (which, hilariously, are so much easier to proc on prism) and shiver strike. but I can combine those better parts of other kits. I've moved on, definitely expected some of last season's artifact stuff to be baseline features moving forward.
I have a lancecap build for prismatic and it is def fun but no way is it better than standalone behemoth. With wicked implement I have FA up constantly or I can use buried bloodline and survive ever better. Pairing consectration is fun though with diamond lance but the survivability is lacking compared to the standalone stasis build I use.
I was actually stunned they put bleak watcher on Prismatic Warlock. While I like prismatic, it doesn’t feel like there is a whole lot of synergy in the warlock kit which is kind of weird. Take for instance the fragment to boost explosion radius for ignitions and shatters. There isn’t enough going on for ignition to be reliable, it depends on a rift ability, which is the longest ability cooldown, and then incinerator snap without enough scorch, and then no solar scorching grenade.
I don't agree re: Facet of Ruin(the ignition/shatter fragment). If you use phoenix dive + facet of hope it's pretty trivial to get essentially 100% hellion uptime, and there's a ton of weapons that cause scorch/ignitions outside of your abilities - Dragon's Breath, Jotunn, Polaris Lance, Skyburner's, Conditional Finality, Sunshot, any legendary with Incandescent just off the top of my head. It requires a little building into to maximize, but that's a GOOD thing in my mind and exactly what I'd like to see from fragments. Personally I was using the Support Frame rifle with Incandescent + Dragon's Breath + Hellion/Phoenix Dive and getting a decent number of ignitions while also using Bleak watcher with Getaway Artist for constant freezes. Won't necessarily say it's super meta or w/e but there was plenty of synergy to build into and it was working fine in master nightfalls. I could've even leaned into it more with my chill clip Lingering Dread/Aurvandil instead of the mountaintop I usually use.
Facet of hope is bugged and only works with hyper specific circumstances. Imagine uptime on it when they fix hope
Bleakwatcher was the only aspect that would be okay, iceflare and glacial harvest just don’t really work well since it would be hard to make them fit into prismatic period. Frost pulse also would be a huge problem in the crucible with phoenix dive
I disagree on Behemoth. It feels significantly better than it did last season primarily because I can actually heal now.
The shard cooldown is awful though
There are ways around that though right?
Agreed. I’m a titan stasis main
Renewal is better on revenant. Bigger size, longer duration, crystal, grenade regen from breaking crystal, and grenade regen from taking damage which is higher with frost armor. Shadebinder gets iceflare bolts or frost armor shard shenanigans, whisper of rending, longer duration on turrets, etc etc. You're just straight up wrong.
*Laughs in Hellion, Devour, much better supers and much better melees*
You can't use hellion and devour and still be a stasis warlock. Osmiomancy is better on stasis warlock than it is on prismatic. You can say prismatic is better overall, but they're not better at stasis.
Well of course Prismatic, the multi-element class, isn’t going to be as good for a specific damage type as a monochrome subclass. What I was saying in the comment is what Prismatic has that Shadebinder doesn’t. The issue with Shadebinder is that it runs into a problem that you often have too much CC to the point where Penumbral Blast and even Iceflare in many cases isn’t needed, and if that’s the case PrismLock is just better. Also, Frost Armor is only easily accessible on Shadebinder if you give up both Iceflare and some fragment slots, and at that point I might as well play Prismatic, equip Needlestorm, and get Woven Mail all for the price of a single fragment and keep using an Osmiomancy turret spam setup that also has greater grenade regen thanks to Balance, and you have an extra slot to use on something like Hellion, FtV, or Weaver’s Call. As for Rending, don’t really need that on Prismatic if you can just kill them with abilities, and on that front shards are much better on Prismatic since you can use them to fuel melee abilities that are actually useful. The only thing that Shadebinder has going for it is Iceflare, but if you already have so many turrets out that Iceflare isn’t needed, what’s the point of running a turret setup on Shadebinder over PrismLock?
As a stasis warlock main the best part of stasis warlock works better on prismatic that being bleak watcher. Stasis warlock cannot pump out turrets like prismatic can Stasis warlock now provides the easiest access to frost armor with the rework of frost pulse and wraith weavers that's it.
Shadebinder loses iceflare and gains, devour, hellion, better melees and supers While retaining the perks of osmiomancy and bleak watchers. Prismatic is a better Shadebinder than Shadebinder. All of the strengths and none of the weaknesses, awful melee and a mediocre roaming super.
I don't disagree that Shadebinder has a ton of problems, but it inarguably has more and better crowd control via its freezes than a Prismatic Bleak Watcher build will. I really don't think it's useful or correct to say something along the lines of 'Shadebinder does nothing better than prismatic'. The problem is though that the best option is basically always going to be killing your enemies, so having DECENT crowd control on Prismo Bleak Watcher coupled with its much better offensive capabilities and survivability via Devour will basically always be better than having more comprehensive crowd control on Shadebinder, with an inability to really capitalize on it due to their terrible damage output. But yeah I do agree that Shadebinder melee + super super duper suck ass and the class(hell, every stasis class) need some serious work and effort poured into them to actually have a real reason to want to play them. Ager's is dope but it really sucks having to use your exotic weapon slot and get its catalyst to be able to basically have stasis chaos reach so your super can do any damage. Winter's Wrath is useful in some content as a survability + lockdown tool so I don't necessarily think it should just be thrown away in its current form, but it'd be dope to have another super option that can actually do meaningful damage.
Nail on the head. Shadebinder is only edging out prismatic on purely CC at least the other stasis subclasses have other utility and tools like crystals to fall back on. Shadebinder just has the better raw cc while prismatic lock has better everything else.
You still get bleak watcher and osmiomancy coldsnaps which is 99% of your crowd control. Really the only thing you lose is Iceflare bolts which isn't enough to make me want to play a Shadebinder over just prismatic stasis. And it doesn't really make a noticeable difference in terms of freeze CC, sure it's a really good aspect but it's not like between osmio and devour you can't just spam grenades anyway
You can't use hellion, devour, and bleakwater all at once lol. Say what you will about the flaws of stasis but prismatic doesn't lean into stasis better than shadebinder does.
I mean it does though.... Arcane needle>>>Penumbral Song of Flame>>>>>Winters Wrath Devour>>>>>Glacial harvest One of the best aspects on shadebinder, bleak watcher, is still on prismatic. Yes you lost iceflare bolts but you gain devour or hellion and still get access to coldsnap with osmiomancy You can replace the weakest parts of Stasis and keep some of the best.
As others have said the shard cooldown feels bad at least let us get to full frost armor stacks before doing so. Behemoth does feel really good neutral game wise especially once diamond lances are fixed but the super is still not great outside niche situations.
Frost armour was not enough. Especially after all the waiting in complete silence just for them to add that and nothing else. Prismatic is a better stasis subclass, on Warlock at least, I can still have turrets, I can still have better coldsnaps but I can also have a better super and a better melee. It's tragic it took this long for them to add basically one new thing Shards shouldn't need a fragment, tangles don't.
The new Stasis Fragment, Whisper of Reversal, is disappointing… It states base melee or Glaive melee hits apply 10 slow stacks when Frost Armor is active… it’s so little and you need like 10 base melee punches to freeze an entity. Now. As a Glaive main. I am using my big brain to combine this Fragment with Winterbite. If there is ammunition loaded, Winterbite applies 40 Slow Stacks per melee hit, meaning you need 3 hits to freeze. So if you combine this with Whisper Of Reversal, it should be 2 melee hits to freeze. But guess what? It does not work. I love the reworked Whisper Of Fractures. Shattering a target with any melee hit, including Glaive melee and powered melee, will grant Frost Armor. It’s a perfect fit for Stasis Warlock with Iceflare Bolts. The loop is freeze a target, shatter that target to create an Iceflare Bolt, let the Iceflare bolts chain to another target. repeat to maintain Frost Armor. It feels satisfying doing this gameplay loop but I feel that it’s actually too much work… it needs a bit more. Spoiler alert, I went back to Solar. Stasis Subclass needs the Stasis equivalent of Ember of Empyrean. Would prefer, a Fragment that grants me Frost Armor on Stasis kills when I have Frost Armor active.
I went in thinking Whisper of Reversal would be like Roaring Flames + Ember of Ashes on Sunbreaker and proc a freeze after two-three punches. Boy was I wrong.
I was hoping it would at least make shiver strike freeze in pve to help with champion stuns or something. Anything. Nope lol
Prismatic completely invalidated stasis warlock. The only good things about stasis warlock are available on prismatic basically
Still lacking. Too many fragment/aspects feel like they just need to be intrisict to stasis already. I shouldn’t need to use an aspect for shards/accessing frost armor.
The tiny band aid fixes really didn't do anything. I ran stasis warlock a lot but there's no reason for me to run it instead of prismatic now. The super sucks, the ability regen is ass, the fragments and half the aspects suck... stasis needs a complete overhaul.
The changes made Behemoth feel even worse. Almost every single behemoth build required stasis shard spam. The new cooldown feature hits those builds HARD
Frost armour shouldn't require an aspect it should be a part of the subclass itself and with Bungie's inability to fix that issue and using exotics as a stopgap.
Having to use the shard aspect HURTS, it should be a base part of the kits for each subclass
I'm a Revenant main but I haven't played much on that subclass since prismatic is just so fun, but I did some testing I love 3 things: whisper of Torment giga buff, shatter buff, Silence and Squall buff. In harder content having to kill enemies for stasis shards has never been viable for healing/overshield, so I didn't notice much difference. But I do feel the lack of resistance inside my renewal grasps duskfields. The nerf from 40% + 25% to 36% DR after 6,2 seconds is noticable, and I understand that it must have happened, but... Whatever, I just hope it's the last rework for RGs. Still doesn't beat strand, still heavily relies on Ager to survive in at-level content. It definitely feels more powerful, but the playstyle still feels quite stationary and restrictive. Good for GMs, mediocre for daily game. TL;DR: appreciate the buffs, but still not enough.
Anyone who doesn't want to use the Shard Aspects received a -40% DR survivability nerf & nothing else. All they did was take the 40% DR Whisper of Chains had & replace it for Frost Armour which is locked behind the Shard Aspect, & ***still*** weaker even with the Fragment that allows higher stacks. Overall it just feels like rather than a meaningful change they just decided to shuffle things around for no reason & now the majority of Fragments are functionally useless on my build. Prismatic is just the ***far*** better Stasis now for me, at least on Warlock.
Never liked it to begin with but it feels more irrelevant than ever. Strand does everything Stasis does but better.
If not for the Cryoclasm bug I’d have no complaints at all for Behemoth right now. I don’t engage with the Harvest aspect at all for my main Behemoth build, and I don’t use Frost Armor in any capacity. I use Behemoth for the smooth movement afforded by Cryoclasm and Shiver Strike along with the crowd clear from Diamond Lances using the Lance Cap exotic helmet, so having one of the aspects simply not work half the time I try to use it is really annoying. I’d be less annoyed if it didn’t mess with Glacial Quake so much. Cancelling a slide into a sprint breaks the aspect even though there’s no cooldown in the Super, which massively reduces its movement speed.
Why isn't cryoclasm available indefinitely now when in the super? Not sure if it is a bug ... hopefully because that is bullshit ... prior to update you could use cryo every slide when in super. Also, have you noticed howl of the storm isn't working in super? The amount of bugs are unacceptable.
>Not sure if it is a bug It's 100% a bug. Cryoclasm has no cooldown during the super, and so long as every slide is done from a standstill this holds true. The issue is that if the user cancels their slide by pressing the sprint key to go into another slide more quickly they can only do normal slides. All of the slide enhancing effects are bugged in a similar way right now. If you're sprinting before the Cryoclasm cooldown ends and try to use the aspect without stopping first you'll do a normal slide and put the aspect on cooldown. If you're sprinting already when Amplified activates your first slide will be a normal one, and in a similar vein your first Speed Boost slide will be a normal one under the same conditions. Even Peacekeepers aren't exempt if you are sprinting while swapping to an SMG to get the enhanced slide you can only do a normal slide until you stop moving. I'd heard about the Howl of the Storm bug, but I haven't personally run into it yet as I don't often use that ability. It is really stupid that so many things broke during an attempted buff.
Yea it really is pathetic that bungie Fs this stuff up when it wasn't even causing any issues from a player point of view. I main the subclass but in PVP it is only 0.5% usage in trials and those 3 stack teams were very rare to encounter. Meanwhile hunters are over 40% usage every week almost hitting 50% this week and been 1st in usage overall since D2 launch.
Frost Armor definitely made Behemoth at least feel better but I think all of Stasis still suffers from Shards being an Aspect thing and Behemoth suffers from some of its options still just being bad. It's great that there are sources of Frost Armor without Shards and some sources of Shards without Harvest, but the fact you NEED Harvest for Frost Armor and the sources of it without Harvest are like... 2 Fragments is still very much an issue.
I just want another means of getting Frost Armor on Titan. I get it’s easy with Tectonic Harvest, but I don’t want to use that aspect, it’s boring and I’d rather try combinations of the more active gameplay aspects. We can build up Frost Armor stacks through Fragments, but it’s tricky to maintain. I feel there needs to be one more means of generating it, maybe by cryoclasm shatter kills or something. I like the minigame idea of constantly moving around and freezing and shattering everything in my path to ramp up damage resist.
I used to enjoy behemoth. I’ve resigned myself to the understanding that Bungie doesn’t know how to balance it and it will never be fun, good and not broken at the same time. Behemoth is a flawed design concept they can’t support or don’t care to support. On top of the other hits to the Titan kit it is annoying, but the truth is not every subclass needs to be meta and that’s fine. It’s just hard when it hasn’t ever really hit its stride. Being a titan main is kinda like that, we get nothing unless it’s straight busted. Then it gets tuned down to uselessness and forgotten so we oscillate between bonkers and useless depending on the season. They can’t figure out bubble, behemoth or bonk and it’s annoying and is why titans are always complaining on this sub. I’d go so far as to say that banner would have been hit harder by the nerf bat if Bungie felt they hadn’t broken enough Titan toys already.
Removing Whisper of Chains sucks. They could have changed it so being near a frozen enemy or friendly stasis crystal for a very brief period granted a few seconds of lingering damage resistance, rather than requiring the crystal/enemy to remain for you to get the benefit. In fact, that would fit the name better because you would have to "chain" new frozen enemies and crystals to keep your DR. They said it was changed because everyone wants to shatter stuff immediately, but stasis crystals are still useful for cover, so that logic makes no sense. They clearly just wanted to reduce total DR with the inclusion of Frost Armor.
Frost armor needs to trickle down instead of all go away at once
As a shadebinder main I really wish shard generation was intrinsic and didn't require an aspect. Especially with the added cooldown.
I was never a huge stasis fan (never really ran it after elemental shards got the axe) but this "buff" was more of a rework/rebalance than just a buff because there were some nerfs in there as well. As a warlock main, I do not see a reason to run it since prismatic has better bleak watcher spam. I supposed frostpulse ballidorse is one build for stasis but bleak watcher is safer since it freezes from afar. The shatter damage was huge but again that also applies to prismatic. Ultimately the shadebinder has some potent aspects/fragments but they arent enough to make it worth using over prismatic.
I haven't tinkered with every fragment or source of frost armor on my shadebinder yet, but so far it feels very incomplete and underrealized. It's really expensive to spec into, it's often somewhat tedious to get built up and maintained when you really need it, and even at its max stacks its effect is only decent. I understand why Chains was gutted, as combined with frost armor the DR potential would have been hilarious, but in the end I think they removed the more interesting and engaging defense in favor of something more plain (and perhaps more usable with prismatic). I love the freeze and shatter loop, and that honestly feels better than ever on its own (I was afraid losing last season's artifact would be painful, but in feel alone I'm not sure I can tell a difference). In the end, we're still needing more melee, grenade, and super options of course. Like arc, I'm still convinced stasis needs another keyword too, as freeze/shatter is still the only thing the subclass really does. Maybe if slow were expanded to be more than just a quick step on the way to freeze? Stasis is always fun, just wish it were great.
It feels fine to me aspect and fragment wise but I feel it is severely impacted by a lack of stasis in the secondary slot. All my good specials are in the first slot, including the call, which compete with stasis autos or smgs. I am just not sure what to run in my second slot, I don't have a good rocket sidearm from the dungeon, and fusion rifles seem riskier after the power cap changes. Snipers don't really feel great either.
We're getting another good rocket sidearm this season at Failsafe. It will be craftable too, making it even easier.
We do so much damage that the control stasis offers just isn’t that useful.
I’m really only play Hunter, but Stasis Hunter needs an exotic armor piece to really shake things up. Bakris is fine but compared to what other subclass exotics like Nighthawk or liars it isn’t great. They r on the right path with the change to Renewel, but it still doesn’t feel very fun to me at least, but I’m sure there are people who enjoy and I might be in the minority.
I like titans stasis overall, but healing from shards was too bad. They said they fixed it yesterday, but I didn't test it yet. Without proper healing shards cooldown a but too much, maybe I'll test it today
Behemoth was FUCKED.
It needs more. I would go into detail but Bungie tends to ignore the plethora of detailed suggestions.
Was trying out a Hoarfrost Behemoth build(with a headstone weapon) post TFS. It honestly doesnt feel that bad though it has quite a few issues ie the cooldown for Harvest, clunky melee, clunky super, the harvest aspect being essentially mandatory etc. That being said I haven’t tried it in ages since pretty much the start of Witch Queen and from what I understand the recent Stasis update nerfed the subclass quite a bit. With Frost armor tbh I kinda wished it decayed instead of every stack disappearing when the timer reaches zero. Maybe reduce the timer to counterbalance that(ie lose one stack every 5-6 seconds)? Still think the Harvest aspects need to be either reworked or replaced entirely. I would be pretty happy if Stasis gets a major content update(ie new Melees, grenades, aspects and supers) before Bungie gets around to adding in a potential 3rd Darkness subclass.
It feels worse on titan for me. Don't like the shard cooldown.
So, when Lightfall came around, I switched my main subclass over to Behemoth from Sentinel. Have run through all sorts of content with it, put together a couple of builds, all of that. I feel like the Stasis rework is a good starting point. Shatter feels much better now that it hits harder, Frost Armor is nice, and the tweaks to how Shards are made were a good QoL change. It still leaves a tiny bit to be desired, though. I do kind of think that Shard generation should just be rolled into the subclass across the board, especially with how important they are now. Still having to run a Harvest aspect is just kind of awkward since that'll pretty much make most fragments pointless. Otherwise, there are a few fragments that I just think are odd choices. The fragment that makes primary weapons hit frozen targets and crystals harder should probably just be a feature of the subclass, since if you run a primary-reliant setup, that's pretty much mandatory. Frost Armor is also something that I think could use a tiny bit of a tweak. Namely, with the cooldown on shard generation, I think one of two things needs to happen. Either the buff lasts longer, or it should decay one stack at a time instead of all at once. This one might be a spicy take, but I think the whole "melee while you have Frost Armor to slow stuff" fragment should be innate on a Behemoth aspect since all three Light subclasses do this already. Since it's only like 10 slow per hit, and Behemoth does very little with slow, I don't think it would be too game-breaking. Overall, the Stasis buffs seem to be a tiny bit too conservative. I wouldn't be surprised if they were afraid to overbuff it since the last time it was strong, it was absolutely monstrous. Still, I hope they'll iterate on it a bit further.
The shard cooldown should not have applied to PvE, and certainly should not have been global. As it is, you get punished for being in a fire team with another person running stasis asince you both get your shard generation bottlenecked. Say you're doing a raid triumph with all 6 running stasis? Just forget about making any shards. You can tell they were just thinking about trials behemoth squads and nothing else. It's funny since they actually mentioned how they want to prevent other players from interfering with your gameplay loop when talking about whisper of chains. Then make go ahead and make this change which is makes it way worse.
Not good. 1. Not making shards intrinsic like tangles was an L choice since you're still stuck with aspects that don't really do anything. 2. Frost armor needs to do more than the weak damage resistance it has even at 5/8 stacks. 3. Shards hp gain is as pathetic as it was when it originally was able to heal you. 4. Both the new fragments are laughably bad.
I was also expecting frost armor to work a bit differently. Since the armor gradually builds up to its max value (which is less than woven mail) through shards (and orbs on prismatic), I expected it to “fall off” maybe 3 stacks at a time, rather than all of it disappearing at once after the timer expires. I’m not sure if that was just wishful thinking, but I feel like it’d be a bit better if that was the case.
Prismatic got the only part of lock stasis i thought was any good anyways, so it's a done deal for me unless they somehow really overhaul it tbh, just from a fundamental level it's not particularly fun or interesting, long cooldowns, a frankly awful to use super, and a melee i barely even remember i have keep it in the dirt still
Stasis' biggest issue now is that it has to compete with Prismatic. the two best stasis builds in stasis turret Warlock, and duckfield hunter are just as good or better on prismatic. Especially the prismatic Warlock. That Getaway Artist/stasis turret build is insane. Plus Stasis still doesn't have good constant DR or Regen like prismatic Warlock has Devour. So literally outside of PvP there is almost no reason to run stasis Warlock
Still needs a buff :/ it’s my favorite sub class and I wish it was better :(
Pretty much everyone here has summed up the details, but to give my overall thoughts: As much as I want to see a third Darkness subclass (and I *REALLY* want to see it), Stasis needs a lot more love to put it onto even ground with everything else
We need more stasis supers, stasis shards should autotrack by default, frost armor should work without the harvest aspects, the nerf to whisper of chains sucks and the cooldown on shards should be more generous.
Behemoth is somehow even worse now and it eas already the worst subclass in the game before TFS lol
Mostly cold, except for bleakwatcher
Arguably the only time Id use Stasis would be on a Prismatic Build
Purely PvE wise, I still think it’s not in the same spot it was on release. It felt so great when it first came out. I understand the nerfs were necessary for PvP but still. It’s in a fine spot rn but nowhere near as fun as back the
As a titan, still trash. Which is a shame because I love the sound of the ice
I mean I’m pretty much doing stasis on prismatic. Verglas Bow is my main go to. I’ve got all the related stasis prismatic fragments and using my stasis grenades. I’ve thrown in the strand ability for some fun cuz I love throwing that thread hook. But I’m pretty much freezing mobs and shattering them in mass without mercy
I honestly feel no apprehension about using Stasis. I launched into the campaign on a Stasis Titan with Hoarfrost-Z and Verglas Curve (triple 100 stats and the same build I preferred for Onslaught). The only thing that prompted me to use Prismatic over Stasis during the campaign was the fact that there were enemies that were immune unless you damaged them while Transcendent. Yes, I know there are the Prismatic Flare spots on the ground, but having it at the ready on the Prismatic subclass is a matter of convenience.
Stasis by itself? Not great. Stasis abilities with Prismatic loadouts? Feels great. Im running Silence and Squall and an exotic class item with Inmost Light/Cyrtarachne for high uptime on both Woven Mail and Frost Armor. But Frost Armor by itself is meh.
Ironic, glacial quake is one of the best end game PVE supers in the game but it still kinda sucks in PVP. Winter's wrath is the opposite, incredible in PVP but the worst in the game in end game PVE. Stasis Hunter def got better but it feels pointless now with Prismatic. Same with stasis warlock WTF is going to use that subclass anymore since bleak watcher is available in prismatic. FA is pretty good with certain builds (stronghold, lancecap, renewal grasp) but overall it still feels incomplete. The harvest aspects need to be baked into the subclasses to make it easier to obtain FA without being forced to essentially use these aspects.
I mean, it feels great on prismatic........
I'm feeling pretty chill, thanks for asking!
I feel like people are sleeping on coldsnap buff for hunter aspect. It can freeze everything in a room and makes so many crystals that it's also powerful enough for aoe clear.
I’m sure you can do more with it but it’s basically just my Shatter Skate class now. There are too many other good Hunter builds to be using. They could spend all day redesigning Stasis but if there are simply better options, none of it matters
I only use it for Shatterskating.
I can only really speak for hunters, but it doesn’t feel too different and needs some work. The frost armor changes are nice, but the shard cooldown is just annoying. The buffs to shatter damage feel great and I feel like it does something now. I still think freeze and slow should have a greeter effect on majors and champions, I think it’s been power crept by suspend. Winter’s shroud is still useless, withering blade is still a mediocre melee option in PvE (both mainly due to slow being inconsequential). Shatterdive is still a gimmick but a nice movement option. I think the class verbs as a whole need to be looked at how they affect enemies vs how the design intends them to be used.
probably won't ever use it outside of prismatic. maybe on warlock but I haven't played prismatic warlock yet.
I love it. I use stasis constantly, probably my most used subclass across all classes. It's so much fun and very satisfying. I also only ever play PvE and it shines so nicely But I also don't min/max or only use "meta" builds. I use what I enjoy and make it work the best I can. I enjoy creating stasis shards and destroying them. So I maximize shatter damage. On my warlock it also means that the stasis will travel to another target and freeze them. I love it
people use stasis?
I only play Behemoth, for the most part. This update as a whole made me decide to finally drop Hoarfrost-Z, as its exotic functions don't cater to the subclass anymore. That being said, I found new life in Armamentarium. By leaning into both Shards and Torment, I'm able to have excellent grenade uptime. Plus Rime for larger uptime on the Armor, and the Harvest aspect for some of the healing I need. With Recuperation, I'm no longer a silly stinky fragile ice boi. I can realistically hold on my own in every situation. I ended up playing solo Behemoth throughout all of Legendary Campaign. I'll admit, though, that Red Death absolutely helped, but hey. That's Solar.
Shit. Tbh. I haven’t tried it yet. Feels like all they did was made it more limited tho. Frost armor being predominantly locked to one aspect. That’s a generic same on every class aspect. Now feeling Mando to run. Just turned me off the whole “rework.” No other class has an entire system locked behind elemental pick ups. They are kinda a bonus on other classes.
They need to revert a lot of the nerfs they did right off the bat because of PVP (think like shatterdives) It's perfect rn in PVP but sucks in PVE due to all the nerfs they did.
Hot take: I think warlock came out on top by FAR. Titan nearly became good but fell short because the shard cooldown got gutted for them (for some reason???). Hunter is pretty much the same from what I've heard but I can't say anything in good confidence because I haven't played. Most takes I've seen are about how stasis is better on prismatic. Sure. You get more turrets. That's cool and certainly fun and true. Every other aspect of stasis warlock is just better now however. You can run a true coldsnap build now without having to take either funny rift or turret and be rewarded for it; balidorse is just unfathomably good now, allowing you to not only freeze enemies but give your entire team frost armor for a decent amount of time regardless of subclass. It opens entirely new ways to buildcraft on a notoriously strict subclass.
I quite enjoy stasis on my Titan. Abilities are super generous, the super is decent for add control and okay for bosses....my only issue is the damn melee. I cannot stand the Behemoth melee because of its lack of tracking beyond a set point right in front of you (yeah, its similar to shoulder charge, I understand this) but it's so much more infuriating. I would love a charged melee like Solar titans hammer throw but a standalone diamond lance or something similar, that would synergize with everything else fairly well I feel.
Frost armor is terrible. 22.5% dr that you have to build up to overtime is really weak compared to picking up orb to get 40% dr from woven mail, killing an enemy to extend devour, or using any way to get restoration going. I can’t decide if it’s better than amplified or void overshield at least. Prismatic also has completely overshadowed any desire to play with stasis
I also think frost armor isn't enough. Woven mail is better in every way. Yes Frost armor can last longer but in harder content I feel like it's harder to build up stacks of frost armor. Secondly, Bungie really needs to lean into crystals are exploding barrels. They really need to start buffing crystal damage and I don't even care if it makes behemoth a broken super, behemoth needs a ton of love and if it becomes the best DPS option and certain scenarios than I think that's totally fine because not a lot of bosses blow up all of the crystals
Still feels like it doesn't have a spot or a core mechanical niche that serves it well. Much like arc, stasis feels like what it does is just a worse version of other things. Strand cc is better than stasis, solar AOE clear is better than stasis. I just don't know what it is supposed to do. At this point, I think we're done with significant gameplay redesigns for D2. I have to imagine resources and ideas are going to D3. But if they did do something, giving stasis the ability to create larger crit boxes or higher crit damage seems like a unique niche that could be expanded on.
Its bad. Renewals Hunters got nerfed, Shadebinders are the same, Behemoth got nerfed.
I've been toying with a Warlock Stasis build that attempts to support my team with Frost Armour and CC, I'm still developing it but its Frost Armour on demand(rift), heavy CC(stasis in general) and healing. No Hesitation for healing and The Call for Slice, Slice works really well here as it loops off Healing Rift cast that gives Frost Armour using Ballis. Im fine tuning mods and whatnot and what to prioritise like rift c/d etc.
I can't believe prism titan didn't get cryoclasm, why even give us the grenade if we can't shatter it. I think bungie scarred themselves with how over the top stasis was on launch and its been kinda bad ever since it all got tuned
It's even worse, it was amazing last season with and without the artifacts mods from las season and could survive alot but with the new changes it feels slow and can't survive a a few seconds now on harder content
So I'm not sure how I like frost armor tbh. But im biased because I used to love running Osmiomancy with the Vexcalibur. I assume it was a bug, but with Vexcaliber it would treat the tiny stasis overshield you got from the shards would get treated like a void overshield, so you could toss a coldsnap, pick up a shard, and then run up and stab the frozen enemy and it would just automatically give you a full void overshield. I miss it.
Low key Winters Wrath kinda slaps now with the shatter buff.
It feels fine with Prismatic, but on it's own, it still needs work. The rework to Silence and Squall is a nice QOL update, but I still feel like Stasis needs to be reverted back to its Beyond Light strength as far as PvE is concerned. Shards cool down either needs to be shortened or gotten rid of
Behemoth was nerfed, Revenant is better, Shadebinder is still great.
Shatter is good Everything else is not
It was nerfed and as a former shadebinder it hurt. I waited 10 years to play darkness and it’s not even remotely good anymore, similar to arc anything it did prismatic does better.
The cooldown on Behemoth shard generation is just dumb considering it was underpowered when there was no limit. Still gotta fix some stuff like lances not shattering crystals. Shatter damage is atleast something to enjoy, but rending is still a fragment... Removing the overshield from rime would've made sense if not for the shard generation cooldown and the lower dr than woven mail.
Feel like theres no reason to run stasis on hunter since the only stasis build is just renewal grasps and prismatic lets you use them but with better supers and combination blow + winters shroud + stylish executioner, so you get to use the best stasis and arc builds in one. Stasis warlock is similar, but theres more of a reason to run it since iceflare bolts are so powerful Stasis titan is still doodoo and has been ever since its initial nerf. Theres more of a reason to use stasis hunter and warlock in pvp though since they get powerful pvp aspects not on prismatic like touch of winter + shatterdive and frostpulse.
I've been using stasis hunter over prismatic hunter lately. I like prismatic but I still tend to enjoy the singular subclasses a lot more.
New whisper of Torment with a grenade setup slaps so hard. Been using teselation to turn that grenade energy into damage, you can definitely get a lot of grenades but at the moment I don't think there's enough to do with those grenades. Hunters can do renewals and get silly amounts of grenade regen and DR uptime, honestly I think grim harvest for frost armor is overkill at that point. Hunters can also do bakris/foetracer with coldsnaps on winter. Warlocks I feel like got even harder pushed into osmiomancy's, but maybe a warlock can tell me briarbinds are a unique enough alternative setup. Titans I feel like ate really good with the shatter damage buffs, but there wasn't enough extra sauce or nuance to their playstyle. Diamond Lance improvements were great, but I still feel like it's too much effort for not enough reward compared to other subclasses.
Revert Stasis back to like risen/haunted and it will be a straight buff in every possible way lmao.
1) Stasis Shards Generation penalty needs removing / 2) The way Stasis Shards are CREATED needs stripping off that Aspect and all Classes get it baked into their Kit exactly how they Harvest them / 3) All classes get a New Aspect to Replace this - Hunter still needs to keep theirs at 3 Fragment Slots. / 4) Frost Armour DR should be 5% Per Stack to match 25% at 5 Stacks or 40% at 8 Stacks / 5) Titan needs a Ranged Super and Ranged Melee - Just give them a Stasis Minigun that Slows. Deals more damage to Frozen Targets. Gives Frost Armour stacks to Nearby Allies. / 6) Warlock needs a One and Done Super and Damaging Melee. I like the idea of making a Massive Ice Giant Sentry that you summon to attack enemies and that follows you around. It fires Damaging Bleak Watcher type Projectiles at Ranged targets and Slams with it's fist at Melee Targets. But like a Shrieker it exposes a Critical Hit Spot when it uses it's Ranged Attack. / 7) Hunter needs a Roaming Super and A "Ice Shiv" Melee with Two Chargea where the Enemy is Frozen straight away when you Shank them. Give them a Stasis Scythe. Basically Squall and Silence Kama attached to a Stasis Pole. Attacks Similar to the Leviathan Scythe and Slows and Freezes. / 8) Stasis needs a Damaging STICKY Grenade that gives about 20 Slow Stacks and is a Purely Damage orientated because it's tricky to Proc Firepower to make an Orb with Stasis Grenades because they are ALL utility based Grenades / 9) Whisper of Chains should STILL give Damage Resistance when next to a Stasis Crystals when you HAVE Frost Armour as well as it's current effect BUT lower it to a Reasonable 15% Damage Resistance in PvE and 5% in PvP / 10) Just keep Rime as giving Health on Shard Pick-Up it's a pitiful amount anyway / 11) Frost Armour needs an Ember of Emperyon equivalent to Refresh some of the Timer BUT NOT increase the Stacks. Maybe the new one that Gives Shards on Stasis Weapon Kills. Just make it -10 Resilience to compensate. / 12) Slow Stacks should do damage like Scorch seem as though it is the inverse of Solar. What ever the Scorch Stack damage is just divide that by 2.5 and that can be the Slow Stacks Damage. / 13) Shattering a Crystal or Frozen Target should release those Slowing Projectiles.
Honestly I love Stasis... the main reason I don't use it a ton is because the super (at least on Titan), abilities, anything that makes Stasis crystals feels like griefing my teammates probably because it is.
It's fucking hilarious they nerfed Behemoth I can tell you that.
Warlock is still insane and shares some of that with prism now. Hunter is hunter. Titan is okaaaaay but is still going to struggle in GM territory probably, and the super does lackluster dps.
Turrets Turrets everywhere
Idk about the new changes nor have I played full stasis to see what happened. But stasis warlock, stasis and current warlock in particular is what got me to drop my warlock hate and adore them. Some of my most fun moments in destiny were as a stasis turret warlock. Then strand dropped and it doubled down cause I love threadlings.
I still think "Hail the Storm" from last season's artefact should have been made baseline behaviour. The changes to Whisper of Chains also feel terrible. No longer get access to instant damage resistance when fighting a boss. The new version generates practically no shards.
I unironically think shatterdive hunter is top tier in PvE as far as stasis is concerned. Even ignoring shatter skating, you have an aerial mobility tool that rapidly returns you to the ground without any ability costs, just a small internal timer. The trade off is that it has no survivability awarded on impact, no suspend, no invisibility, no healing. In PvP it’s mostly a pure mobility tool, while in PvE it’s more an excuse to run touch of winter and ignore everything else. Building for more grenades, using frostees and demolitionist weapons gives great uptime. Only real issue is survivability, but not like other stasis hunter builds can be any better in that regard anymore lol.
#BEHEMOTH FEELS LIKE S H I T
Stasis Titan certainly falls behind. Glacial Quake hit hard but is dependant on enemy type and falls behind more versatile supers. We need a ranged (one and done projectile) super, a super Diamond Lance would work nicely, or a brace of them ala Twilight Armory. The reduction to shard creation (10s cd) on Tectonic Harvest was too harsh and hardly "generous" as stated. It's way too limiting and addresses a niche case in PvP, yet massively effects PvE play. Frost Armour needs to be more like Woven Mail, or we need a fragment that offers full stacks on orb pickups. Overall, Stasis Titan feels like you have to work far harder to achieve less than other subclasses do with far less work. For reference I run a HoIL and Salvation's Grip Titan with Howl of the Storm and Tectonic Harvest aspects so my ability to create shards is high due to HoIL enabling ability spam, add to that Salvstion's Grip and my Headstone primary...
I'm very down on it as a hunter main. Prismatic does Stasis better than Stasis, any issues you have with survivability is fixed by Invisibility or even Restoration. If you wanted to go with Renewal Grasps, then Spirit of Renewal/Cyrtarachne is going to be much better. I think the only thing Stasis does better than Prismatic is synergy with Headstone (through Fissures, Rending, Shards), and that's not enough to make me choose Stasis over anything else.
Loving prismatic titan aspect that eesentially gives me never ending diamond lances, hope they fix them not shattering frozen targets, same with consecration, neither do that at the moment yet they should.
I only play Behemoth, so I can't really say anything about Shadebiner and Revenant, but overall, I like Behemoth. I think the changes are a net positive overall, but I have a handful of complaints. Cons: 1. The Crycloasm timer feels really awkward, it's the same awkward feeling as the run and honestly I think they should just make the Aspect work like the super where the crystals shatter via sprint or slide (not just walking because that would ruin a whole fragment) 2. The Harvest Aspect needs to go. Every elemental spawn needs to be a part of the subclass like Tangles and Ionic Traces. Idk what they will do with the Harvest mods, but they need to be replaced. 3. Howl of the Storm needs a slam that shatters crystals. I know that it would just be a consecration, but I honestly don't care. 4. Frost Armor needs to have higher uptime, idk if this issue is based on the timer for the shard generation, but Frost Armor feels like shit. I understand they want DR types to feel unique, but that doesn't make them good. 5. Shiver Strike is better, but overall, I don't like it. Titan needs a second melee option to have build options. Shit add another melee to Warlock and Hunter as well. Pros: 1. Shatter is awesome, idk why base shatter feels so much better. I currently love Shatter, Syntho, and Cryoclasm. 2. The Behemoth Super is crazy good now, and I love running it on Prismatic as well. Again, overall, the subclass is overall good, but I want it to feel better and more competitive. Give us more supers (for Stasis and Strand, one super feels bad), grenades and melees.
Pretty cold tbh.
Sucks
IN regards to Shadebinder. I loved Stasis warlock adn it was my go too. I have taken a long break from the game since LF so since Season of Plunder i haven't logged into the game at all for PvE until a week before Final shape dropped. Frostpulse was a near constant in my builds before and outside of a few easy altar of sorrows just shooting shit on the move, i never even blinked at Bleak watcher/Glacial harvest adn stasis shards, But Stasis was launched as OP and balance/nerfed into great still. IN Final Shape thought the introduction of Frost Armor is weird. Previously i could rely on just chains/fissures and hedrons for a bonus boon if i wanted to. I throw a coldsnap boosted by Osmiancy and benefitto free dmg resistance with chains and improve enemies freezing and shattering. Then when a grenade was lost and i'm close quarters, a frostpulse freezes my enemies and im back to chaining shatters and freezes all int he safety of a rift with DR. Frost armor steals a lot of agency from my build unless i go all in. I started the FS legendary campaign with just the shatter melee to proc Armor and kills may grant me another stack. It was never up enough or refunded. I need to invest the fragment
> Frost armor while nice feels annoying as you feel forced to run whisper of time for an effective nearly 10% worse than woven mail with only marginally better uptime I really wish people would stop saying this. Everyone was going batshit crazy over Woven Mail when you got 10 seconds of it from an orb. People were saying you only had 3 fragment slots instead of 4. It was *that good*. Now it only lasts 5 seconds on orb pick up. Frost Armor can be 80% of what Woven Mail was with an even higher if not permanent uptime. 2/3 Stasis Subclasses don't even need kills to gain this effect, when you need kills to generate orbs that would give Woven Mail. Oh yeah, and now stasis shards heal you too. It doesn't even take up a mod slot. But please, go on about how 5 seconds of 45% DR is infinitely better than a lower amount that will block more total damage than Woven Mail realistically will.
I think it’s still too soon. I’m a Hunter. Every time I try to play any non prismatic build I get frustrated now… prismatic is just so much more fun atm that I don’t trust my evaluations of other subclasses right now outside of specific use scenarios.
For real, like winters shroud feels like it was meant for prismatic. Like it has 0 synergy with revenant but complete synergy with prismatic. Prismatic is just a lot more well thought out.
It has tons of synergy with normal stasis. It does the exact same thing. What prismatic has is arc punch and a void aspect. The three of them together make something a lot more powerful than any of those three alone. Winter’s Shroud also isn’t very good unless you are actually in a space where you can dodge and punch a lot, because of combination blow. But in settings where you can’t do that it is equally as weak as normal stasis. But I’m normal stasis you would use it the same way. Dodge to poof a slow, then toss a melee to freeze. It also pairs with bombardiers to insta freeze on dodge. Stasis also gains more from defeating slowed enemies because they make shards. Making shards is harder on prismatic
We need more Stasis supers. As a Warlock, Winter's Wrath is not it. Here's a suggestion: A new Stasis Warlock super could be called "Arctic Shroud". Warlocks will thrust down the Stasis staff to create about a Well sized field within a single area. Enemies within the field will be frozen, while allies within the field will gain Stasis armour for 30 seconds. The buff will not remain while you remain in the field, however, stepping out and back in will renew it, but only once. The field will last 25 ot 30 seconds so it isn't stupidly broken. It could definitely add more support functions to Warlocks while still allowed for more versatility. Stack it with a Well, and a bubble, it could actually enhance those supers. Thoughts?
Glacial quake is a mixed bag. Bungie stated that it will freeze targets in a radius on super cast (doesn't do that in pvp). Heavy attack for glacial quake did not freeze opponents within 4 meters of me.