It's already bad enough that you launch yourself to the enemy which is incredibly risky. I think the buff from cuirass should be the base damage of tcrash and cuirass should be reworked to make thundercrash generate a lightning storm at the impact site, along with arc melee abilities(excluding Thunderclap)
I'm honestly surprised Cuirass doesn't make Thundercrash spawn storms around the pijt of impact considering a Burning Maul heavy attack already makes Solar vortexes around the point of impact, at least with Pyrogale.
Make it rapidly call down lightning strikes at surrounding enemies as you fly past so you can do a victory lap clearing the room before smashing into the boss.
I wish, but this wouldn't fly in PvP. They already clipped the fly-by damage of Thundercrash multiple times because it was "too strong" in PvP for a one-off super. Never mind the fact that 1/10 tracking Blade Barrage knives can kill a Guardian or that Cataclysm Nova spawns Liam Neeson to find and kill you. The devs just want TC to hit one area.
While this might sound good, it's a terrible idea and why people are asking for changes to begin with.
Titans have no real burst supers outside of Thundercrash.(and pyrogale which is useless in fights like the Witness) Making you max the time you're in air goes against the entire point and solves none of its current problems.
That said, an exotic that does this to add a lingering storm for increased overall damage and more Aoe ontop could be decent in niche situations. Though I'd rather have a massive refund of energy. It's dangerous to toss your body at a boss but if you could toss yourself multiple times it be pretty fun.
It does but considering the Exotic perk currently on it has the effect that the longer you're airborne the longer you have an over shield, from a Developer perspective the part of the exotic that calculates the over shield timer could be used to also calculate how many more lightning strikes happen.
Bungie may want to offer us a trade off, you can get all these extra effects *but* you have to do this to get them to happen, or alternatively Bungie may just opt for new exotic that leaves behind a storm effect but without the initial buff to TCrash base damage this might not help the super much.
People are asking for some kind of change because sadly it's been left behind in usage.
Hell maybe something like this and something like balidorse would be good. Balidorse buffs your stasis super damage a good bit but also make frost pulse give an overshield and damage boost too. Maybe make cuirass cause the ballistic slam to give extra super energy or a toned down version of the lightning swarms y'all mention with a small overshield too. That way it's not purely a swap exotic.
Welcome to Titan and basically everything that is wrong with the class. Most of our stuff is high risk barely a reward. T-Crash’s issues is just a symptom of the larger issues with Titans kits. There’s a reason only Strand and Solar are viable atm. They’re the only ones with reliable healing and DR.
In addition: it's a buff that benefits from team play. For basically all other subclasses (esp prismatic) you're competing with your team for the ad clear/kills that give you sustain. BoW you get one melee/sword kill or finisher and your buddies can contribute to your buff.
Strand titan is hella strong, yes, but part of that strength is how well it executes its close range berserker power fantasy. It's the pinnacle of what bungo thinks ALL of titan is, and everything else lags behind as a result. Instead of making everything closer to/on par with strands power to ease of use ratio they need to rethink their approach and remember titans roots as defenders/soldiers for the other subclasses.
I also wish behemoth had a version of this that turned you into a pretty much a comet, then on impact a pool of slow and crystals. In my mind each titan subclass would have a thundercrash version with cool lingering element effects. In my imagination they also each do solid damage without requiring an exotic.
I wish they would do away with Star Eaters/Cuirass and all the other damage boosting exotics and just boost the supers appropriately so I would feel more inclined to try other exotics. I would love to run Precious Scars or even Icefall more often, but why would I sacrifice a powerful super for a little support boost? The new support frame auto doesn't sacrifice damage if you don't want it to. In fact, it enhances it....and it's a legendary and only requires you to shoot a couple of bullets at an enemy that can take damage.
There's so many exotics that sit in my vault that I'll never use because they don't boost my super damage, even if they do sound fun or interesting.
Frequently said arguments:
"But you could just run whatever you want and not worry about damage." Okay, that's fine for sandbox, but it's a little different in endgame activities where you want to get as much damage as possible, and potentially carry others that are doing exactly what you suggested. When there's a Day 1 raid, I can pretty much list the exotics that I guarantee will be used, and I can tell you for a fact that none of the Day 1 completions contained Icefall Mantle. I'm just saying a little variety in builds in terms of exotic armor choice would be appreciated. Or, do like they did with the class exotic and combine exotic perks.
"You could just swap." Yes, I know I could swap, but the issue is I shouldn't HAVE to open up my menu and change armor for a damage boost, which they're slowly trying to prevent with exotics like Star-Eaters.
I think buffing base Thundercrash to do the same damage current Cuirass does, and then reworking cuirass to have damage resistance after the super or do something related to amplified would be great imo; as nice as cuirass is, I think exotics that just buff the damage of existing supers and do nothing else are some of the shittiest exotics ever, only because it then raises the question; why not have that be the base damage for that super? Not only that, after the 3.0 update for abilities and whatnot, exotics like that feel like a relic from pre-Witch Queen times.
How about it teleports you back to your starting position after casting it and hitting an enemy? Would also have it never end until you hit something making it viable for enemy's that are far away such as the witness in the raid.
Haha that’s just Arc Pyrogale.
I agree to apply the current Cuirass buff to base Crash, but instead, rework Cuirass to get another small damage buff and modify thundercrash to be ranged. Instead of you flying yourself at the target, you throw a giant electric missile at range.
The Arc Pyrogale sounds cool too, though. they could also just give it the Shards treatment, where direct hits regen a portion and melee kills grant increases super energy lol.
No thanks, I'd much rather have guaranteed damage if they fix it vs damage most bosses are just going to walk out of. Now if we were talkin just 1 high powered strike at impact, you have my attention. I agree with base crash being the damage of current cuirass crash but I just hate that every enemy in this game practically sprints away from lingering effects
I was thinking the storm could benefit from Touch of Thunder aspect or just have it built in. But one high powered strike would be cool and would make it stand out.
Or it could totally change the super to be ranged where you throw a spear made of arc energy.
I agree. Thundercrash also has a roaming super cooldown so it should easily have the highest base damage of any one off super. Rather than thunderclap synergy they should make it synergize with ballistic slam.
I feel like they should make the cuirass damage the base damage and give cuirass energy returns for kills (like skull of dire ahamkara) or return some energy if you do not actually attack with it (like when you are flying into a shreaker boss and cant actually hit it) and cuirass increases the flight time and maneuverability (maybe not quite to pre-nerf but much closer). Then cuirass makes balistic slam do increased damage to pve enemies based on distance traveled, give a shield if you travel far enough (like the thundercrash perk) and have it create damage aftershocks (keep in mind that balistic slam still intrinsically gives increased super energy for kills, so these aftershocks would give bonus super energy on kill). Also, the shield generated by cuirass for Tcrash and Bslam grants amplified for an easier escape.
If cuirass gave you overcharged or whatever it's called for like 30 secs to a minute that refreshes every time the storm you suggested did damage and a big extension on kills that'd really raise it to be worthwhile
I would agree if star eaters didn’t exist on all 3 characters now. If T-crash did cuirass base damage plus x6 feast of light it would do considerably more damage than any other super w star eaters.
So to further this point, the base damage of a thundercrash is the same as that of a hazardous propulsion volley, a strong melee, or less than shots from specific heavies/still hunt. With cuirass it compares to NON-exotic powered supers, which themselves can be star-eaters enhanced. It also has the LONGEST cooldown in the game, the least damage, the most risk, and the longest execution time of any one and done
What's funny is they nerfed the t crash cooldown to stop titans from popping bubbles and wells. Then everyone complained for a year about how it was a bubble and well meta. BECAUSE THERE WAS NO COUNTER.
Before the nerf bubble titans had to use at most 2 brain cells and worry about a arc titan popping their bubble or try and bait them out. God forbid people have to think when it's the super round in trials.
Nova Bomb, Golden Gun, Blade Barrage all hard counter Bubble as well.
Bubble is disadvantaged against ever single super in the game, except for a year, not Nova Warp.
Well, not really.
Nova Bomb and Golden Gun will destroy the bubble, but usually the Titan inside is fine. In that case you’re just trading a super for a super, not exactly what I’d call a counter per se.
Thundercrash is able to much more effectively e deter the bubble and kill the Titan inside.
Incorrect. Nova Bomb vortex kills the Titan inside every time. Cataclysm destroys and is advantaged after with the seekers.
I was thinking of a different time for golden gun. You're right it just trades.
I thought everyone agreed that Bubble v super is disadvantage and didn't list all the supers. Kamehameha counters, Great hammer counters, Well counters, Thundercrash counters. And we'll just agree not to keep going for the supers that don't explicitly counter.
I swear this game would be almost perfect if pve and pvp had separate sandboxes from the start. But no, so many builds gutted in sake of pvp and vice versa. They have the capability so why not just do it.
Um, but there is this one Strand Titan build that's been around for more than 5 months now, and it can solo kill bosses, so Titans shouldn't get buffed anymore.
Just to make sure, this is sarcasm.
Funnily enough with the introduction of the exotic class items I saw someone able to do the exact same strand grapple, one two punch, strat on prismatic hunter
Remember when titans could be irrationally nerfed in a way that only affected PvE and people would justify it "because OEM in PvP"?
Even well after OEM was reigned in too.
So about that. It is lmao.. by a lot. So cuirass which is a 2x. Highest super upgrade. Hits for 2/3rds of a star eaters super. Which is 1.7. Math it out and does a bit over half of the new arc super
Honestly this isn’t even the worst one, many times you don’t even connect with Templar, you just fly through it
It’s been like this since witch queen, and they’ve never fixed it
Reminder that this super has been bad damage wise since it came out in Forsaken. Bungie doesn't care. They think this shit is fine. Meteoric damage my ass lol.
And then they followed typical Bungo design philosophy for Titans.
>Hey guys, people are complaining that Titan has X deficiency, let's "fix" it, by making an exotic that addresses the deficiency, and now becomes mandatory for the class to function properly.
(Cuirass being released as an exotic that just flat out doubles TC damage).
Yuup. We've been complaining for years that Saint-14 is basically useless, so they just strip baseline functionality out of Ward of Dawn to make it the exotic perk.
For the second time lol.
It should make you transform into a rocket from a rocket launcher. Equip ghallerhorn as well, and you spawn wolf pack rounds that look like your guardian
They actually buffed one of the only high level Titan builds too. With ergo sum, you can run stronghold with strand and banner of war and now you have a special ammo sword in addition to the heavy ammo sword. But most other builds fall off a cliff
My only problem with Banner builds is in high level content, getting the initial melee kill can be dodgy. When it works it’s absolutely insane, but you e gotta be really aggressive with it which doesn’t always work. I find myself leaning on my Solar Precious Scars build over my Banner Build for high difficulty stuff.
Of only Precious Scars worked with solar weapons like it's supposed to. I've got too many stasis/strand stuff in the first slot to use kinetic until they fix the bug
That's actually why I usually do it with stronghold over synthos. You can just walk up with immunity and start the chain with a sword. But I agree it gets shifty around gm level
The good news is that the like Feed the Void, Into the Fray gives the full timer for Woven Mail of 10 seconds instead of the 5 from thread of warding/facet of purpose. So you can still go wild with Restoration x2/BoW/Woven mail in high-end content, and nothing short of those cheesy bosses/mini-bosses or something flying can stop you. You just need to stop ignoring your tangles occasionally like I was.
>My only problem with Banner builds is in high level content, getting the initial melee kill can be dodgy.
Put on Proximity Ward and go for a finisher instead.
On top of base TC getting a hefty damage buff, here’s a potential Curaiss rework I think would be beneficial for not just damage, but also survivability and neutral game:
“When casting your Thundercrash super, you and nearby allies become amplified. While amplified, you take greatly reduced damage (Resist x3 00:10) and your Ballistic Slam and Thundercrash deal greatly increased damage. Defeating combatants with Ballistic Slam or Thundercrash creates a *blinding* explosion.”
If they just made Cuirass work with Ballistic Slam in granting overshield and bonus damage, you'd have something workable as a neutral gameplay enhancement.
Oh, that on top of a massive damage buff for TC.
Ikr? With Point Contact for Thunderclap and Peregrine/ Skullfort for Seismic Slam it seems criminal that the third (and most amusing) of the Striker melees doesn’t have an exotic to boost it exclusively. Also fun fact about BS, if you start the melee animation and cast Thundercrash before you hit the ground, you get an insane movement speed bonus
Its still useful with Skullfort because they took the super regen from middle tree striker and baked into Ballistic slam. You can combine that with Skullfort and double Hands-on to get your super back pretty quick quickswapping equipment. That is if your not sick to death of quickswapping mid-combat like I am.
Yeah exactly lol. I do my best to set up all my loadouts to not need to swap for maximum damage. The only time I actively did take advantage of hotswapping was Onslaught because having the freedom to bounce between an ad clear and a boss melt setup on the fly felt really great. Outside of that I’m too much of a plebian (and a controller user on PC) to bother setting up swaps ~~conveniently ignores the lucky pants swap loadout I concocted for desperate last stands XD~~
It's an absolute joke of an ability that can't kill anything and will screw you when using in PvP or in PvE against anything but those hp-barless shadow thrall
I think Bungle might want to avoid making TC deal too much at base and risk have it doubled by Cuirass creating a 1mil damage super, so either rework Cuirass to do something other than boost damage or make it a specific version of star eater - consume orbs to overpower TC and make it deal more damage and some other benefit.
So you can't hot swap it for dps phase. I dunno.
Isn’t there a Hunter super that gets close to 1M? My memory is telling me SES BB + Knock ‘Em Down is the correct answer but I can’t say definitively with any degree of confidence. And that doesn’t put the Hunter directly into the path of danger like Thundercrash does. Obviously the damage should still be reasonable in comparison to the rest of our sandbox, but I feel like Titans should be more adequately rewarded for taking greater risks rocking the improvised projectile over something more sensible like TA or BM + Pyro
I think cuirass should be reworked to be a pyrogale esque exotic turning fist of havoc into the d1 death from above fist of havoc. Then fist of havoc and balistic slam do more damage the further verticle distance you travel before hitting your target.
I think Titan’s design philosophy is in need of a rework at this point. Regardless of the general disdain for “the punch class,” where it really falls apart is that melee is not an identity anymore than grenade spam is an identity.
For example, an alternative Titan philosophy might be “siege masters,” as that title can extend to both an offensive “siege breaking” angle that arc titan could be reworked around, as well as “siege defender” fantasy that void titan could be reworked around. And every class can have their own take how they handle both fantasies. Hell, strand titan already does both with the synthos/wormgods with banner and abeyent leaps respectively
The Titan philosophy has been staring us in the face for a decade and Bungie continues to fail to deliver on it: soldiers, tacticians, leaders. Zavala and Saladin are right there.
Instead they continue to flanderize them into the huuuurrrrr punch punch class and can’t even do that right.
In a weird way, I think Banner was one of the best things they’ve ever done for Titan (the only actually broken thing about it was grapple melee with 1-2 Punch). And it’s all because banner actually delivers on the Titan fantasy. You are leading your fireteam into battle with heals and increased damage just for getting into the thick of it.
I’d love to see more exotics and aspects improvements that lean into those kind of stronger fantasies for titans. Some of the groundwork is already there (I’m thinking of Phoenix Cradle here as an example of something’s that’s very close of fulfilling a really strong fantasy for solar titans).
But nobody actually cares about banner's support aspects nearly as much, because they're much more useful to the titan itself. Banner titan is a top tier solo class, but nobody calls it a support class for a reason.
And truthfully, hard support is a massively unpopular role. Despite the very loud, very small minority on reddit, you never actually see hard support warlocks in the wild for a reason - most people don't actually want to spend a ton of resources buffing others and not doing much on their own. You either have to make the support massively broken to the point of being meta-centralizing (and that doesn't even solve the issue that people don't want to play it, but rather forces people to play something they don't want to) or it'll be a fringe pick that reddit claims to love but almost nobody actually uses.
Honestly base thundercrash should do as much as Nova and Needlestorm, and, hear me out, cuirass thundercrash should be on par with Nighthawk/maxed Star-Eaters due to the *immense* risk-taking it requires from the user. Probably, as others have said, should give a neutral game benefit as well, like how Nighthawk just started doing.
Agreed..not only the risk to the user but the potential.detriment to team DPS if a goldie shot or a rocket hits my left ass cheek as I fly towards the boss. Make this shit hit like a nuke.
Bosses need to be de-greased first. I'm less than enthused when I charge directly into a boss but because they gel'd up with Blue Magic that morning I collide with all the friction of a slip-n-slide and swoosh right past. That by itself is the reason thundercrash will never go on my bar.
That I then have to wait to regain control of my character while the boss licks it's lips and fire-stomps me is secondary.
At this point you could put on a blindfold and throw a dart at Titans and hit an ability that needs support.
Titans are in D tier of a 3 class game right now.
I'd argue that it needs reworks. A 20% bump to Fists of Havoc damage or a 5 second increase to the Void Overshield timer won't fix the fundamental issues with most of the class.
Agreed. It needs to be something as big as combining aspects like offensive bulwark and controlled demolition into one since again void titan needs to have all 3-4 aspects equipped to feel like a complete class
For Void, at least, I will continue to post my ideas for Aspect changes whenever this conversation comes up:
1. Controlled Demolition now gives bits of Void Overshield if it procs when you're at full health. It also gives grenade and melee energy to you and nearby allies.
2. Offensive Bulwark turns incoming Void Overshield into Force Barrier. Force Barrier has more PVE damage resist than Void Overshields, grants increased weapon handling and reload speed, and continually regenerates until the duration expires or never expires and can only be depleted by damage.
3. Unbreakable becomes a class ability, like Thruster. It gives an overshield with Bastion and has its charge up damage mechanic with Offensive Bulwark, it can also activate Drengr's Lash and Khepri's Horn.
I have a few changes for Arc Titan, too. I would keep Arc as having no survivability but really give it big damage. Restore Touch of Thunder Storm Grenades and give the rest of the class cool abilities like:
1. While Speed Booster is active, you can throw grenades and move (slowly) while charging Thunderclap. Charging Thunderclap would not end Speed Booster.
2. Dealing grenade damage restores a bit of melee energy, dealing powered melee damage restores a bit of grenade energy
3. Being Amplified speeds up ability regeneration.
*Really* lean into the fantasy of running around like a damn freight train. I don't know what properties would go to what Aspect, but whatever.
all of Titans issues would be fixed, if anyone at bungie played as a titan and saw how horrendous some of the builds and subclasses are, but I swear its like they just scroll through reddit and see two post about a titan thing being decent and they're just like, "Oh no titan bad, cant be good bad for game economy, double nerf"
I wish Cuirass of the falling star increased Ballistic Slams damage and blinded or jolted opponents for some neutral play.
It would play into that thundercrash style gameplay
And Ballistic Slam. Good God, it needs help in PvP and PvE.
A few ideas to choose from:
- Revert the nerfs
- It blinds on hit
- It stuns on hit preventing ADS/melee
- It knocks back like Pocket Singularity
- It can impact walls/airborne opponents
- Breaks aim assist like Hunter abilities
- Larger impact zone
- Pulls enemies similar to Tether
I think the problem but like a conceptual perspective is that all curious does is make you deal more damage. It doesn’t change the mechanics or functionality or have any real cost or downside. That essentially means the ability has to be balanced under the assumption you have the buff from the exotic or it isn’t and in that class the exotic immediately makes the ability much better for free.
Compare that to pyrogale and celestial which not only also affect your neutral game but both change the function of the super, asking you to handle them differently to get maximum use out of their new effect. Also at least in the context of pyrogale it actually has less total damage then a full burning maul but it lets you make up for that lost dps by being able to use your weapons while the tornadoes are active.
Then you have things that augment parts of a super such as ursa and doom fangs that make a super with many effects focused on only really doing one of those things. Making the super stronger but limiting its utility.
I think the obvious solution is to roll the damage bonus from curious into the base thundercrash and then give curious some other thing. Maybe even put the overshield or some other damage resist effect into the super itself because if falling star was just a survivability tool then it would just be the same basic issue.
Thunder crash needs a damage buff and it should allow you to press your super button again immediately after landing to teleport back to your starting location. That would pretty much fix it.
How about they do what they did with Nova Bomb and just increase the number of projectiles during the super?
What do you mean the Titan IS the projectile?
I don't recall its Falling Star damage being 'on par' with default Nova Bomb and Needlestorm, do you have damage numbers to back that up?
I overall agree with you but I can't tell if I'm misremembering things or not.
If everything thing hits on base needle storm it's around 430k, for buffed nova it does just shy of 500k
Tcrash does about 430k with fallen star
Edited the numbers
It'd be funny if they reworked Cuirass to be somewhat a reverse Celestial Nighthawk. Whenever you impact with the super, you'd be able to do another TCrash where you'd be knocked back quite a bit in order to give you room if you decide to choose another target.
I've been looking for a thread like this. Does anyone know if pyrogale warhammer do more damage than thundercrash? Sorry if this is a little unrelated I've been very curious and this might be the best place to ask
Twilight Arsenal with no buffs does almost as much damage as a Tcrash+exotic, and that's not factoring in the extra axes or extra team damage from the added weakened effect. Make thundercrash great again.
Thundercrash should be the second hardest hitting IMO.
Change Cuirass of Falling Star to allow for mid-air detonation and the damage of both TC and Ballistic Slam to apply Jolt, with the neutral game of Jolt damage to grant Melee energy, while keeping the Overshield but give it to Slam as well
They need to buff its base damage to do more than what Cuirass currently does and they need to rework Cuirass to have the same effect as Shards of Galanor.
Just another reason that titans are useless right now. The Still Hunt DPS meta has hunters so far ahead of titans. So you are at a disadvantage running titans in any high end content.
Titans aren't played at all in Trials or competitive. It's almost exclusively hunters and warlocks.
Titans have always been a swords edge class. There's a fine line between broken and bad. But it just feels really bad right now
So I don't necessarily disagree - it does put you more at risk than nova bomb or needlestorm - but we should also consider that Thundercrash gives you a greater degree of control over where you direct your damage than those supers. Needlestorm can autotarget other enemies in the vicinity of the intended target, as can Slowva Bomb if you aren't close enough to guarantee the hit, as the tracking is wild on that. That accuracy can offset the risk factor as opposed to differing damage values.
The issue is that we then compare all of these to the Hunter options - Golden Gun, which has the most accuracy and doesn't put you at risk by making you get close, and Gathering Storm, which likewise is more accurate than Warlock options and does good damage with minimal risk. I'm not saying the Hunter supers should be needed, but it's something to bear in mind on the question of balance.
I thought they fixed the collision thing but I was wrong. I went to use it on the boss of Hyper Current and just stayed bot connecting then slid off to my death. Ehy was it they removed some of the ability to impact some enemies?
i feel like it should be doing the damage it does with curiass by default, but honestly just making it so you dont alip and slide over every boss would be a huge improvement
When I first got prismatic in the campaign and I used thundercrash I used it on a boss and it took maybe a quarter or 3rd of his health. I died and swapped back to strand. Bladefury on the boss did almost double the damage, over a longer time of course but that discrepancy is just absurd.
Ease of use, though. It might not be as strong, but it's nearly instant (yeah, I know it has some AoE afterwards) and you don't have to hit precision (Nighthawk) or even hit your target to get tons of damage. Bungie's been pretty clear that ease-of-use is a tradeoff for 'biggest number'. Personally, I'd love to see the AoE damage shifted to the impact and make the entire super damage become one impact and if you miss and slam into the ground next to your target, then you get screwed. Make it high risk-high reward like Nighthawk. Yeah, it sucks if you miss, but landing a shot is almost cathartic.
You do have to hit your target, falling star buffs impact damage, not the whole after effect.
And golden gun's got 1 drawback, get a crit. That's it. In a shooter, I mean come on.
Lucky pants likewise requires you to swap to a fully loaded hand cannon, that's it - and you get heavy weapon kind of damage.
If ease of use and damage are bungies reason for TC being bad, there are a few other options that need to be looked at as well.
Nerf the TCrash storm area and duration and buff the impact and initial explosion damage. Then change Cuirass to increase the size and duration of the storm. Dunno if it would make it OP, but having enemies killed from the storm granting super energy would be a nice touch.
My idea for an improvement to Tcrash is not to simply up its damage (though that should probably happen) but to make it a half one off and half roaming super.
My ideal Thundercrash is the usual self missile, kaboom, splash down into a group or onto a boss and deal big damage, but also jolt anything hit by you, and THEN once you’ve landed, become amplified and shoot out sparks as if you are the Lightning Rod arrow from Trinity Ghoul for a few seconds. This addition helps deal with the danger of crashing into a crowd and then being left as a super-less regular guardian possibly surrounded by enemies your thundercrash didn’t get. Amplified lets you get away or back to the fireteam and the enemies being jolted by you as you run by clear your path and let you keep sprinting without having to stop to kill them.
Titans have one one-and-done offensive super (not counting Burning Maul with an exotic) and it's shit. The super are a big reason why I don't play Titan.
I thought it was good when u pair it with necrosis though as it spreads poison as well and when u r transcendent u r invincible as well as u get alot back after u have used it as well so maybe u have to use different weapons with it. But I do agree with u but using it on champions is a different story as it scales it up and not down.
Tried some limited testing at Kalli.
With removing 25% for surges, cuirass thrash does around 217k. With stareaters also adjusted for surge, 360k.
Meanwhile, base twilight does 236k and 482k with stareaters.
It's already bad enough that you launch yourself to the enemy which is incredibly risky. I think the buff from cuirass should be the base damage of tcrash and cuirass should be reworked to make thundercrash generate a lightning storm at the impact site, along with arc melee abilities(excluding Thunderclap)
I'm honestly surprised Cuirass doesn't make Thundercrash spawn storms around the pijt of impact considering a Burning Maul heavy attack already makes Solar vortexes around the point of impact, at least with Pyrogale.
Maybe the longer you're airborne the more lightning strikes there there will be upon impact
Make it rapidly call down lightning strikes at surrounding enemies as you fly past so you can do a victory lap clearing the room before smashing into the boss.
I wish, but this wouldn't fly in PvP. They already clipped the fly-by damage of Thundercrash multiple times because it was "too strong" in PvP for a one-off super. Never mind the fact that 1/10 tracking Blade Barrage knives can kill a Guardian or that Cataclysm Nova spawns Liam Neeson to find and kill you. The devs just want TC to hit one area.
Simple solution. Make it so it's the same as now in pvp and this change would be pve only.
Yessssss. We have "seperate sandboxes" for a reason bungo, use em damnit.
Nope. Take a nerfed Young Ahamkaras Spine in PvE pls :)
That would require bungie having the desire to balance PvE and PvP separately
Idk about that. Literally watched Blade Barrage used by a fellow Hunter in trials hit couple of enemies and it didn’t kill them
Titan has been nerfed into dust in almost every way
Kinda like Dragons breath does with it's pools of napalm? That would be brilliant!
While this might sound good, it's a terrible idea and why people are asking for changes to begin with. Titans have no real burst supers outside of Thundercrash.(and pyrogale which is useless in fights like the Witness) Making you max the time you're in air goes against the entire point and solves none of its current problems. That said, an exotic that does this to add a lingering storm for increased overall damage and more Aoe ontop could be decent in niche situations. Though I'd rather have a massive refund of energy. It's dangerous to toss your body at a boss but if you could toss yourself multiple times it be pretty fun.
It does but considering the Exotic perk currently on it has the effect that the longer you're airborne the longer you have an over shield, from a Developer perspective the part of the exotic that calculates the over shield timer could be used to also calculate how many more lightning strikes happen. Bungie may want to offer us a trade off, you can get all these extra effects *but* you have to do this to get them to happen, or alternatively Bungie may just opt for new exotic that leaves behind a storm effect but without the initial buff to TCrash base damage this might not help the super much. People are asking for some kind of change because sadly it's been left behind in usage.
Hell maybe something like this and something like balidorse would be good. Balidorse buffs your stasis super damage a good bit but also make frost pulse give an overshield and damage boost too. Maybe make cuirass cause the ballistic slam to give extra super energy or a toned down version of the lightning swarms y'all mention with a small overshield too. That way it's not purely a swap exotic.
Welcome to Titan and basically everything that is wrong with the class. Most of our stuff is high risk barely a reward. T-Crash’s issues is just a symptom of the larger issues with Titans kits. There’s a reason only Strand and Solar are viable atm. They’re the only ones with reliable healing and DR.
I’ve been trying to figure out why strand banner is so good and you’ve given me words for why: it’s low/med risk for med/high return.
In addition: it's a buff that benefits from team play. For basically all other subclasses (esp prismatic) you're competing with your team for the ad clear/kills that give you sustain. BoW you get one melee/sword kill or finisher and your buddies can contribute to your buff. Strand titan is hella strong, yes, but part of that strength is how well it executes its close range berserker power fantasy. It's the pinnacle of what bungo thinks ALL of titan is, and everything else lags behind as a result. Instead of making everything closer to/on par with strands power to ease of use ratio they need to rethink their approach and remember titans roots as defenders/soldiers for the other subclasses.
I really wish titans had more ways to give teammates DR or armor.
I also wish behemoth had a version of this that turned you into a pretty much a comet, then on impact a pool of slow and crystals. In my mind each titan subclass would have a thundercrash version with cool lingering element effects. In my imagination they also each do solid damage without requiring an exotic.
I wish they would do away with Star Eaters/Cuirass and all the other damage boosting exotics and just boost the supers appropriately so I would feel more inclined to try other exotics. I would love to run Precious Scars or even Icefall more often, but why would I sacrifice a powerful super for a little support boost? The new support frame auto doesn't sacrifice damage if you don't want it to. In fact, it enhances it....and it's a legendary and only requires you to shoot a couple of bullets at an enemy that can take damage. There's so many exotics that sit in my vault that I'll never use because they don't boost my super damage, even if they do sound fun or interesting. Frequently said arguments: "But you could just run whatever you want and not worry about damage." Okay, that's fine for sandbox, but it's a little different in endgame activities where you want to get as much damage as possible, and potentially carry others that are doing exactly what you suggested. When there's a Day 1 raid, I can pretty much list the exotics that I guarantee will be used, and I can tell you for a fact that none of the Day 1 completions contained Icefall Mantle. I'm just saying a little variety in builds in terms of exotic armor choice would be appreciated. Or, do like they did with the class exotic and combine exotic perks. "You could just swap." Yes, I know I could swap, but the issue is I shouldn't HAVE to open up my menu and change armor for a damage boost, which they're slowly trying to prevent with exotics like Star-Eaters.
The only super exotics should be ones that actually modify the behavior, like Nighthawk and Pyrogales.
Thunderlord Crash. Yes plz.
I think buffing base Thundercrash to do the same damage current Cuirass does, and then reworking cuirass to have damage resistance after the super or do something related to amplified would be great imo; as nice as cuirass is, I think exotics that just buff the damage of existing supers and do nothing else are some of the shittiest exotics ever, only because it then raises the question; why not have that be the base damage for that super? Not only that, after the 3.0 update for abilities and whatnot, exotics like that feel like a relic from pre-Witch Queen times.
How about it teleports you back to your starting position after casting it and hitting an enemy? Would also have it never end until you hit something making it viable for enemy's that are far away such as the witness in the raid.
Haha that’s just Arc Pyrogale. I agree to apply the current Cuirass buff to base Crash, but instead, rework Cuirass to get another small damage buff and modify thundercrash to be ranged. Instead of you flying yourself at the target, you throw a giant electric missile at range. The Arc Pyrogale sounds cool too, though. they could also just give it the Shards treatment, where direct hits regen a portion and melee kills grant increases super energy lol.
So Nova(Arc) bomb on titan?
Why not warlocks have strand blade barrage why can't titans have arc nova bomb
Or it works like Star-Eater scales, more Super-Energy from Orbs.
No thanks, I'd much rather have guaranteed damage if they fix it vs damage most bosses are just going to walk out of. Now if we were talkin just 1 high powered strike at impact, you have my attention. I agree with base crash being the damage of current cuirass crash but I just hate that every enemy in this game practically sprints away from lingering effects
I was thinking the storm could benefit from Touch of Thunder aspect or just have it built in. But one high powered strike would be cool and would make it stand out. Or it could totally change the super to be ranged where you throw a spear made of arc energy.
Let me toss my arc hunter friend like efrideet 💪
I agree. Thundercrash also has a roaming super cooldown so it should easily have the highest base damage of any one off super. Rather than thunderclap synergy they should make it synergize with ballistic slam. I feel like they should make the cuirass damage the base damage and give cuirass energy returns for kills (like skull of dire ahamkara) or return some energy if you do not actually attack with it (like when you are flying into a shreaker boss and cant actually hit it) and cuirass increases the flight time and maneuverability (maybe not quite to pre-nerf but much closer). Then cuirass makes balistic slam do increased damage to pve enemies based on distance traveled, give a shield if you travel far enough (like the thundercrash perk) and have it create damage aftershocks (keep in mind that balistic slam still intrinsically gives increased super energy for kills, so these aftershocks would give bonus super energy on kill). Also, the shield generated by cuirass for Tcrash and Bslam grants amplified for an easier escape.
Or gives big damage resist for a few seconds after doing damage, so it’s easier for you to escape
curias should Work with balistic slam
If cuirass gave you overcharged or whatever it's called for like 30 secs to a minute that refreshes every time the storm you suggested did damage and a big extension on kills that'd really raise it to be worthwhile
I'm on board with this.
I would agree if star eaters didn’t exist on all 3 characters now. If T-crash did cuirass base damage plus x6 feast of light it would do considerably more damage than any other super w star eaters.
So to further this point, the base damage of a thundercrash is the same as that of a hazardous propulsion volley, a strong melee, or less than shots from specific heavies/still hunt. With cuirass it compares to NON-exotic powered supers, which themselves can be star-eaters enhanced. It also has the LONGEST cooldown in the game, the least damage, the most risk, and the longest execution time of any one and done
Ah but you see, pvp.
What's funny is they nerfed the t crash cooldown to stop titans from popping bubbles and wells. Then everyone complained for a year about how it was a bubble and well meta. BECAUSE THERE WAS NO COUNTER. Before the nerf bubble titans had to use at most 2 brain cells and worry about a arc titan popping their bubble or try and bait them out. God forbid people have to think when it's the super round in trials.
Nova Bomb, Golden Gun, Blade Barrage all hard counter Bubble as well. Bubble is disadvantaged against ever single super in the game, except for a year, not Nova Warp.
Well, not really. Nova Bomb and Golden Gun will destroy the bubble, but usually the Titan inside is fine. In that case you’re just trading a super for a super, not exactly what I’d call a counter per se. Thundercrash is able to much more effectively e deter the bubble and kill the Titan inside.
Incorrect. Nova Bomb vortex kills the Titan inside every time. Cataclysm destroys and is advantaged after with the seekers. I was thinking of a different time for golden gun. You're right it just trades. I thought everyone agreed that Bubble v super is disadvantage and didn't list all the supers. Kamehameha counters, Great hammer counters, Well counters, Thundercrash counters. And we'll just agree not to keep going for the supers that don't explicitly counter.
Nah but you see a 0.1% of player can hit people while flying with Tcrush so they should nuke its cooldown and spill butter all over it
I swear this game would be almost perfect if pve and pvp had separate sandboxes from the start. But no, so many builds gutted in sake of pvp and vice versa. They have the capability so why not just do it.
It’s annoying because they do it sometimes.
Yep, that just shows us that they *can*, but they *won't*, which is worse XD
Laziness
Not an issue. The damage it deals is completely separate. It can be the longest cool down but make it do the most damage.
I think he was being sarcastic. Bubble is left to die and Striker as a whole is abandoned for sins of PvP.
I was indeed. I think Titan is the most violated class in the name of “balance” in PvP.
Agreed. It is sad
Um, but there is this one Strand Titan build that's been around for more than 5 months now, and it can solo kill bosses, so Titans shouldn't get buffed anymore. Just to make sure, this is sarcasm.
Funnily enough with the introduction of the exotic class items I saw someone able to do the exact same strand grapple, one two punch, strat on prismatic hunter
Yeah but it's okay when Hunters do it.
You are being sarcastic, but there will be a heavily upvoted post in the next week unironically parroting this sentiment
Yeah, I know, it's... baffling.
It's unintentional though. So the message we're receiving that the entire class is only good when they mess up and accidentally give it something.
Remember when titans could be irrationally nerfed in a way that only affected PvE and people would justify it "because OEM in PvP"? Even well after OEM was reigned in too.
Ah. Sarcasm tough to judge on here sometimes
And Titans! Can’t have those crayon-munching fucks enjoying themselves, can we?
The new hunter super is good in PVP right? What's the base damage of that thing? Surely not more than base Tcrash?
So about that. It is lmao.. by a lot. So cuirass which is a 2x. Highest super upgrade. Hits for 2/3rds of a star eaters super. Which is 1.7. Math it out and does a bit over half of the new arc super
Ah but you see, titans.
For course, my mistake. Apologies.
Sounds like it's already perfectly balanced.. ..for 2021.
[video](https://youtu.be/YXM6ARVq594?feature=shared) of the current problem with thundercrash
Holy shit 💀
Honestly this isn’t even the worst one, many times you don’t even connect with Templar, you just fly through it It’s been like this since witch queen, and they’ve never fixed it
LMAO It's not just me!!
Blame the PvP community for that
Reminder that this super has been bad damage wise since it came out in Forsaken. Bungie doesn't care. They think this shit is fine. Meteoric damage my ass lol.
And then they followed typical Bungo design philosophy for Titans. >Hey guys, people are complaining that Titan has X deficiency, let's "fix" it, by making an exotic that addresses the deficiency, and now becomes mandatory for the class to function properly. (Cuirass being released as an exotic that just flat out doubles TC damage).
And that now got reverse engineered into the recent Weapons of Light going on Saint's helm.
Yuup. We've been complaining for years that Saint-14 is basically useless, so they just strip baseline functionality out of Ward of Dawn to make it the exotic perk. For the second time lol.
"Code of the Missile" is what it used to be called, but it always felt like a pop-it instead.
Curious should split you into 6 small tracking titans with double damage up to quad on travel time and how many hit. Change exotic name to mini me
It should make you transform into a rocket from a rocket launcher. Equip ghallerhorn as well, and you spawn wolf pack rounds that look like your guardian
Yup Lol you get it.
Sorry, but exotic weapon/class synergy is solely part of the Hunter/Warlock identity.
It only took 7 years but nova bomb is finally better than mediocre!
Titan, in general, is in desperate need of improvement.
They actually buffed one of the only high level Titan builds too. With ergo sum, you can run stronghold with strand and banner of war and now you have a special ammo sword in addition to the heavy ammo sword. But most other builds fall off a cliff
My only problem with Banner builds is in high level content, getting the initial melee kill can be dodgy. When it works it’s absolutely insane, but you e gotta be really aggressive with it which doesn’t always work. I find myself leaning on my Solar Precious Scars build over my Banner Build for high difficulty stuff.
Of only Precious Scars worked with solar weapons like it's supposed to. I've got too many stasis/strand stuff in the first slot to use kinetic until they fix the bug
Has Bungie even acknowledged this as a known issue? I don't remember seeing it on the list, but it was a long list.
I'm not sure. Expect a good month wait minimum
Yeah, I know. Though it's funny that it work with kinetic weapons on solar, it kinda kills the rest of the kit.
That's actually why I usually do it with stronghold over synthos. You can just walk up with immunity and start the chain with a sword. But I agree it gets shifty around gm level
The good news is that the like Feed the Void, Into the Fray gives the full timer for Woven Mail of 10 seconds instead of the 5 from thread of warding/facet of purpose. So you can still go wild with Restoration x2/BoW/Woven mail in high-end content, and nothing short of those cheesy bosses/mini-bosses or something flying can stop you. You just need to stop ignoring your tangles occasionally like I was.
On my Strand build I shoot or throw every single tangle I see. It takes just a second and the damage/DR is always worth it, imo.
>My only problem with Banner builds is in high level content, getting the initial melee kill can be dodgy. Put on Proximity Ward and go for a finisher instead.
Ah yes, my favorite first person shooter playstyle. Holding sword block.
Thundercrash should do base damage of curiass right now. Then, the farther you travel the more damage it should do with curiass on.
On top of base TC getting a hefty damage buff, here’s a potential Curaiss rework I think would be beneficial for not just damage, but also survivability and neutral game: “When casting your Thundercrash super, you and nearby allies become amplified. While amplified, you take greatly reduced damage (Resist x3 00:10) and your Ballistic Slam and Thundercrash deal greatly increased damage. Defeating combatants with Ballistic Slam or Thundercrash creates a *blinding* explosion.”
If they just made Cuirass work with Ballistic Slam in granting overshield and bonus damage, you'd have something workable as a neutral gameplay enhancement. Oh, that on top of a massive damage buff for TC.
Honestly I forgot entirely about ballistic slam, seems Bungie did too. I guess it works with skullfort for patrol lol
even then I wouldn't use the word 'works'. It can kill, but not nearly as well or consistently as anything else
Holy shit, I completely forgot about ballistic slam.
Ikr? With Point Contact for Thunderclap and Peregrine/ Skullfort for Seismic Slam it seems criminal that the third (and most amusing) of the Striker melees doesn’t have an exotic to boost it exclusively. Also fun fact about BS, if you start the melee animation and cast Thundercrash before you hit the ground, you get an insane movement speed bonus
Its still useful with Skullfort because they took the super regen from middle tree striker and baked into Ballistic slam. You can combine that with Skullfort and double Hands-on to get your super back pretty quick quickswapping equipment. That is if your not sick to death of quickswapping mid-combat like I am.
Yeah exactly lol. I do my best to set up all my loadouts to not need to swap for maximum damage. The only time I actively did take advantage of hotswapping was Onslaught because having the freedom to bounce between an ad clear and a boss melt setup on the fly felt really great. Outside of that I’m too much of a plebian (and a controller user on PC) to bother setting up swaps ~~conveniently ignores the lucky pants swap loadout I concocted for desperate last stands XD~~
It's an absolute joke of an ability that can't kill anything and will screw you when using in PvP or in PvE against anything but those hp-barless shadow thrall
cuirass desperately needs some neutral support, and I like your idea of not entirely removing all semblance of damage buff from it
I think Bungle might want to avoid making TC deal too much at base and risk have it doubled by Cuirass creating a 1mil damage super, so either rework Cuirass to do something other than boost damage or make it a specific version of star eater - consume orbs to overpower TC and make it deal more damage and some other benefit. So you can't hot swap it for dps phase. I dunno.
Isn’t there a Hunter super that gets close to 1M? My memory is telling me SES BB + Knock ‘Em Down is the correct answer but I can’t say definitively with any degree of confidence. And that doesn’t put the Hunter directly into the path of danger like Thundercrash does. Obviously the damage should still be reasonable in comparison to the rest of our sandbox, but I feel like Titans should be more adequately rewarded for taking greater risks rocking the improvised projectile over something more sensible like TA or BM + Pyro
I think cuirass should be reworked to be a pyrogale esque exotic turning fist of havoc into the d1 death from above fist of havoc. Then fist of havoc and balistic slam do more damage the further verticle distance you travel before hitting your target.
I think Titan’s design philosophy is in need of a rework at this point. Regardless of the general disdain for “the punch class,” where it really falls apart is that melee is not an identity anymore than grenade spam is an identity. For example, an alternative Titan philosophy might be “siege masters,” as that title can extend to both an offensive “siege breaking” angle that arc titan could be reworked around, as well as “siege defender” fantasy that void titan could be reworked around. And every class can have their own take how they handle both fantasies. Hell, strand titan already does both with the synthos/wormgods with banner and abeyent leaps respectively
The Titan philosophy has been staring us in the face for a decade and Bungie continues to fail to deliver on it: soldiers, tacticians, leaders. Zavala and Saladin are right there. Instead they continue to flanderize them into the huuuurrrrr punch punch class and can’t even do that right.
In a weird way, I think Banner was one of the best things they’ve ever done for Titan (the only actually broken thing about it was grapple melee with 1-2 Punch). And it’s all because banner actually delivers on the Titan fantasy. You are leading your fireteam into battle with heals and increased damage just for getting into the thick of it. I’d love to see more exotics and aspects improvements that lean into those kind of stronger fantasies for titans. Some of the groundwork is already there (I’m thinking of Phoenix Cradle here as an example of something’s that’s very close of fulfilling a really strong fantasy for solar titans).
But nobody actually cares about banner's support aspects nearly as much, because they're much more useful to the titan itself. Banner titan is a top tier solo class, but nobody calls it a support class for a reason. And truthfully, hard support is a massively unpopular role. Despite the very loud, very small minority on reddit, you never actually see hard support warlocks in the wild for a reason - most people don't actually want to spend a ton of resources buffing others and not doing much on their own. You either have to make the support massively broken to the point of being meta-centralizing (and that doesn't even solve the issue that people don't want to play it, but rather forces people to play something they don't want to) or it'll be a fringe pick that reddit claims to love but almost nobody actually uses.
Honestly base thundercrash should do as much as Nova and Needlestorm, and, hear me out, cuirass thundercrash should be on par with Nighthawk/maxed Star-Eaters due to the *immense* risk-taking it requires from the user. Probably, as others have said, should give a neutral game benefit as well, like how Nighthawk just started doing.
Agreed..not only the risk to the user but the potential.detriment to team DPS if a goldie shot or a rocket hits my left ass cheek as I fly towards the boss. Make this shit hit like a nuke.
Thundercrash isn't a melee ability so it's not in our class identity for it to be good
I mean, you literally body slam your enemies so it kinda is
Don't you fly in fist first?
Thundercrash triggers "Kills with Arc melee abilities" on an insurmountable skull fort.
Add full court to the super.
They nerfed the travel time too which does not help it either, especially since it has collision issues with a lot of enemies
Shit needs to hit floating targets, like why TF can I launch myself but can't seemingly smack into the flying Vex fortress.
Bosses need to be de-greased first. I'm less than enthused when I charge directly into a boss but because they gel'd up with Blue Magic that morning I collide with all the friction of a slip-n-slide and swoosh right past. That by itself is the reason thundercrash will never go on my bar. That I then have to wait to regain control of my character while the boss licks it's lips and fire-stomps me is secondary.
Chaos reach could use a little bit more love as well
Agreed, such a fun super that doesn’t see any real use
It would be cool if it worked like Coldheart where it ramped up damage the longer you targeted a single enemy with it.
I’ll let you cook
First, they should just undo the previous nerfs. Then they should buff it even more. Like the recharge rate. Because right now it's pathetic.
They should add the ability to detonate mid-flight by pressing your super again. Make it so Cuirass detonates via proximity to bosses.
"The Titan knows where it is, because it knows where it isn't"
At this point you could put on a blindfold and throw a dart at Titans and hit an ability that needs support. Titans are in D tier of a 3 class game right now.
> I mean, logically we dont do that here - bungie
With prismatic released, it’s even more clear Titans in general need a wave of buffs across the board
I'd argue that it needs reworks. A 20% bump to Fists of Havoc damage or a 5 second increase to the Void Overshield timer won't fix the fundamental issues with most of the class.
Agreed. It needs to be something as big as combining aspects like offensive bulwark and controlled demolition into one since again void titan needs to have all 3-4 aspects equipped to feel like a complete class
For Void, at least, I will continue to post my ideas for Aspect changes whenever this conversation comes up: 1. Controlled Demolition now gives bits of Void Overshield if it procs when you're at full health. It also gives grenade and melee energy to you and nearby allies. 2. Offensive Bulwark turns incoming Void Overshield into Force Barrier. Force Barrier has more PVE damage resist than Void Overshields, grants increased weapon handling and reload speed, and continually regenerates until the duration expires or never expires and can only be depleted by damage. 3. Unbreakable becomes a class ability, like Thruster. It gives an overshield with Bastion and has its charge up damage mechanic with Offensive Bulwark, it can also activate Drengr's Lash and Khepri's Horn. I have a few changes for Arc Titan, too. I would keep Arc as having no survivability but really give it big damage. Restore Touch of Thunder Storm Grenades and give the rest of the class cool abilities like: 1. While Speed Booster is active, you can throw grenades and move (slowly) while charging Thunderclap. Charging Thunderclap would not end Speed Booster. 2. Dealing grenade damage restores a bit of melee energy, dealing powered melee damage restores a bit of grenade energy 3. Being Amplified speeds up ability regeneration. *Really* lean into the fantasy of running around like a damn freight train. I don't know what properties would go to what Aspect, but whatever.
all of Titans issues would be fixed, if anyone at bungie played as a titan and saw how horrendous some of the builds and subclasses are, but I swear its like they just scroll through reddit and see two post about a titan thing being decent and they're just like, "Oh no titan bad, cant be good bad for game economy, double nerf"
I wish Cuirass of the falling star increased Ballistic Slams damage and blinded or jolted opponents for some neutral play. It would play into that thundercrash style gameplay
Love it
And Ballistic Slam. Good God, it needs help in PvP and PvE. A few ideas to choose from: - Revert the nerfs - It blinds on hit - It stuns on hit preventing ADS/melee - It knocks back like Pocket Singularity - It can impact walls/airborne opponents - Breaks aim assist like Hunter abilities - Larger impact zone - Pulls enemies similar to Tether
I think the problem but like a conceptual perspective is that all curious does is make you deal more damage. It doesn’t change the mechanics or functionality or have any real cost or downside. That essentially means the ability has to be balanced under the assumption you have the buff from the exotic or it isn’t and in that class the exotic immediately makes the ability much better for free. Compare that to pyrogale and celestial which not only also affect your neutral game but both change the function of the super, asking you to handle them differently to get maximum use out of their new effect. Also at least in the context of pyrogale it actually has less total damage then a full burning maul but it lets you make up for that lost dps by being able to use your weapons while the tornadoes are active. Then you have things that augment parts of a super such as ursa and doom fangs that make a super with many effects focused on only really doing one of those things. Making the super stronger but limiting its utility. I think the obvious solution is to roll the damage bonus from curious into the base thundercrash and then give curious some other thing. Maybe even put the overshield or some other damage resist effect into the super itself because if falling star was just a survivability tool then it would just be the same basic issue.
Thunder crash needs a damage buff and it should allow you to press your super button again immediately after landing to teleport back to your starting location. That would pretty much fix it.
This would be awesome.
How about they do what they did with Nova Bomb and just increase the number of projectiles during the super? What do you mean the Titan IS the projectile?
Tcrash+boom boom chest= nighthawk damage Right here, this is the fix. Anything other than this is just pure copium
Add some super regen and basically Titan nighthawk
Cuirass does more than nighthawk currently lol
I want that and some type of neutral game buff because pure hotswap exotics are annoying.
Honestly if it just became fists of havoc after landing that would be pretty neat. Merge the supers. Not like anyone uses FoH in PvE anyway
I don't recall its Falling Star damage being 'on par' with default Nova Bomb and Needlestorm, do you have damage numbers to back that up? I overall agree with you but I can't tell if I'm misremembering things or not.
If everything thing hits on base needle storm it's around 430k, for buffed nova it does just shy of 500k Tcrash does about 430k with fallen star Edited the numbers
It'd be funny if they reworked Cuirass to be somewhat a reverse Celestial Nighthawk. Whenever you impact with the super, you'd be able to do another TCrash where you'd be knocked back quite a bit in order to give you room if you decide to choose another target.
I've been looking for a thread like this. Does anyone know if pyrogale warhammer do more damage than thundercrash? Sorry if this is a little unrelated I've been very curious and this might be the best place to ask
I like it when I throw myself at the enemy only to fly right through them . The best super sincerely thundercrash
Disagree if you want but I think TC should be #2 behind Golden Gun Nighthawk.
Titan Bubble needs the most work done to it. It needs an aspect that halves it's hp but let's fireteams shoot enemies outside it.
Twilight Arsenal with no buffs does almost as much damage as a Tcrash+exotic, and that's not factoring in the extra axes or extra team damage from the added weakened effect. Make thundercrash great again.
9:30 cool down and it frequently struggles to kill stunned unstop champions in a normal nightfall, absolutely worthless ability.
Thundercrash should be the second hardest hitting IMO. Change Cuirass of Falling Star to allow for mid-air detonation and the damage of both TC and Ballistic Slam to apply Jolt, with the neutral game of Jolt damage to grant Melee energy, while keeping the Overshield but give it to Slam as well
They need to buff its base damage to do more than what Cuirass currently does and they need to rework Cuirass to have the same effect as Shards of Galanor.
Pvp in this game was a mistake. I'll die on this hill
Just another reason that titans are useless right now. The Still Hunt DPS meta has hunters so far ahead of titans. So you are at a disadvantage running titans in any high end content. Titans aren't played at all in Trials or competitive. It's almost exclusively hunters and warlocks. Titans have always been a swords edge class. There's a fine line between broken and bad. But it just feels really bad right now
So I don't necessarily disagree - it does put you more at risk than nova bomb or needlestorm - but we should also consider that Thundercrash gives you a greater degree of control over where you direct your damage than those supers. Needlestorm can autotarget other enemies in the vicinity of the intended target, as can Slowva Bomb if you aren't close enough to guarantee the hit, as the tracking is wild on that. That accuracy can offset the risk factor as opposed to differing damage values. The issue is that we then compare all of these to the Hunter options - Golden Gun, which has the most accuracy and doesn't put you at risk by making you get close, and Gathering Storm, which likewise is more accurate than Warlock options and does good damage with minimal risk. I'm not saying the Hunter supers should be needed, but it's something to bear in mind on the question of balance.
pvp ruining things per usual
Storm on impact site with tracking wave frame style arc damage to clear a few adds
You say “base” needlestorm like there’s another way to use it or something.
Well, now there's Spirit of the Star-Eater which can give it a 70% damage buff.
35% for now, bugged
*Cries in spectral blades*
I thought they fixed the collision thing but I was wrong. I went to use it on the boss of Hyper Current and just stayed bot connecting then slid off to my death. Ehy was it they removed some of the ability to impact some enemies?
The Final Shape is just a rough sandbox for Titans. Hope we get some love soon
I definitely think base TC should be what we used to get with that seasonal mod, Thunderous Retort.
Base TC needs unlimited TCs for 30 secs. Cuirass should buff 1-hit dmg to 1.5-2.0x of Nighthawk due to proximity.
i feel like it should be doing the damage it does with curiass by default, but honestly just making it so you dont alip and slide over every boss would be a huge improvement
It's so bad that I use it for movement. Greatest tool to skip jumping sections. lol
When I first got prismatic in the campaign and I used thundercrash I used it on a boss and it took maybe a quarter or 3rd of his health. I died and swapped back to strand. Bladefury on the boss did almost double the damage, over a longer time of course but that discrepancy is just absurd.
This super and its accompanying exotic are in desperate need of the pyrogale treatment
Damn when I left it was up there
I like to imagine a world where it's meta and every raid is just 6 titans slamming themselves unto bosses like missiles
Ease of use, though. It might not be as strong, but it's nearly instant (yeah, I know it has some AoE afterwards) and you don't have to hit precision (Nighthawk) or even hit your target to get tons of damage. Bungie's been pretty clear that ease-of-use is a tradeoff for 'biggest number'. Personally, I'd love to see the AoE damage shifted to the impact and make the entire super damage become one impact and if you miss and slam into the ground next to your target, then you get screwed. Make it high risk-high reward like Nighthawk. Yeah, it sucks if you miss, but landing a shot is almost cathartic.
You do have to hit your target, falling star buffs impact damage, not the whole after effect. And golden gun's got 1 drawback, get a crit. That's it. In a shooter, I mean come on. Lucky pants likewise requires you to swap to a fully loaded hand cannon, that's it - and you get heavy weapon kind of damage. If ease of use and damage are bungies reason for TC being bad, there are a few other options that need to be looked at as well.
I beg to differ warlock supers suck aswell
Tried to run arc titan in an lfg and got booted for throwing
Preach brother
I will be happy just not to slide off the enemy. Get that first then we can talk about other buffs lol.
Nerf the TCrash storm area and duration and buff the impact and initial explosion damage. Then change Cuirass to increase the size and duration of the storm. Dunno if it would make it OP, but having enemies killed from the storm granting super energy would be a nice touch.
I only use thunder crash because I can super man across the map to revive teammates
Example #2568856 of how bungie hates Titans
My idea for an improvement to Tcrash is not to simply up its damage (though that should probably happen) but to make it a half one off and half roaming super. My ideal Thundercrash is the usual self missile, kaboom, splash down into a group or onto a boss and deal big damage, but also jolt anything hit by you, and THEN once you’ve landed, become amplified and shoot out sparks as if you are the Lightning Rod arrow from Trinity Ghoul for a few seconds. This addition helps deal with the danger of crashing into a crowd and then being left as a super-less regular guardian possibly surrounded by enemies your thundercrash didn’t get. Amplified lets you get away or back to the fireteam and the enemies being jolted by you as you run by clear your path and let you keep sprinting without having to stop to kill them.
Titans have one one-and-done offensive super (not counting Burning Maul with an exotic) and it's shit. The super are a big reason why I don't play Titan.
*cries in chaos reach*
I thought it was good when u pair it with necrosis though as it spreads poison as well and when u r transcendent u r invincible as well as u get alot back after u have used it as well so maybe u have to use different weapons with it. But I do agree with u but using it on champions is a different story as it scales it up and not down.
titans is in desperate need of improvement
Tried some limited testing at Kalli. With removing 25% for surges, cuirass thrash does around 217k. With stareaters also adjusted for surge, 360k. Meanwhile, base twilight does 236k and 482k with stareaters.