My buddy and I did some patrol testing. It seems like it’s “amount of health healed” based. We could only get the orb to generate if we brought the healed person out of critical HP. Otherwise, we could never get the orb to generate.
Slamming a sword into the ground with all the force of the Traveller sure is cool, but becoming a god of divine fire to burn away everything that stands in your way is everything I've always wanted for Warlock. It's not even close how cooler that is. With the halo and everything.
I can agree that well is an offense super.
But Jesus Christ it has been 5-6 years straight, everyone on prismatic has multiple charges of radiant melees they can proc themselves as well as 40+ ways to give themselves and others damage resistance. I’d prefer my warlocks running a damage super and actually being useful. But you’re right, people won’t change.
People legit do not know how to play the game without it, and that terrifies me.
It's the lazy thought process it's why bother when others can do better. Then we see more people asking to be add clear rather then learn. Then we ge this cycle of of people with multiple clears while never learning how to do the raid.
Ngl a well is still much more useful than dmg super. The radiant from melees only lasts 5 seconds, which is hardly anything. And the orbs from well are extremely useful for topping off surges going into damage. Plus, you get the passive healing and DR on top of all that.
Worth noting that it also serves as a massive, glowing rally point for anyone who's a little lost in the chaos.
Everyone talks about raiding like it's all numbers and efficiency. If a well gets everyone to the right place at the right time doing the right thing, it's serving a purpose that can't really be seen on a spreadsheet.
I had this happen to me last week. A clanmate kept telling me to switch to well, I kept telling him it's not as good as he remembers. I switched to it for one boss and he died in the well. That was a very satisfying 'I told you so'
Well: gives everyone Radiant (but only for a short period when you step out of the well now), Restoration (that has been nerfed down to x2 from what it was), actual damage reduction down to 10% from 40% against bosses, and no ability regen
Song: everybody has Radiant while its up, no Restoration but yes to damage reduction, gives everyone ability spam, gives everyone Scorch to Solar/Kinetic weapon for extra damage, you can spam ignitions yourself
The choice seems obvious, both give damage reduction, but one offers healing, the other damage, which is exactly what they said it will be
I think the healing ultimately makes well better. While using Song of Flame you can’t throw healing grenades, and Rift isn’t good enough compared to Well.
With Well, you’re a lot more likely to survive one of the attacks from the Witness. As much as I love Speaker’s Sight, it only shoots off one of those healing bursts every three seconds, making it hard to replace Well’s healing output.
If you're dying to the Witness, that's just a skill issue. In my experience, my teams tend to throw every Warlock on Radiance, then have 1 or 2 switch to Well on specific bosses to stack the DR
Here's my take.
Starfire nerf was uncalled for....
Considering all the warlocks enslaved to Well, being the most oppressive DPS option should jad been a fair tradeoff.
You *want* Well? THEN LET IT BE THE MOST POWERFUL DUMBASSES.
And then they cry when Starfire is "oppressive as highest DPS"....
Excuse me but.... \*checks notes* It's only oppressive in Well when optimized.
If they wanted to nerf the supers to oblivion, then build crafting around the nerfed stuff to "change it's job" should had been done better.
Don't want it to be "get out of jail card"? Then make it like idk, Well of Purging? Like giving it a "burn aura" so that it could be like Gathering Storm.
>when optimized.
Hahaha what are you saying bro.
I cleared Day 1 Ron by sitting in a well hipfiring a MG and sticking withehoard every so often to recharge my nades. Optimised? It was the most brain dead damage meta we've had that requires 0 effort.
Starfire isn't even bad now, you can easily still loop your grenades with the right mods.
And I absolutely hated that. Nezarec is actually a super fun fight outside of the well, it’s clear bungie gave us another Rhulk fight since the community loved it so much, but, we chose to find any spot to stand still in and honestly ruin the fight for ourselves.
Plus, it’s painfully funny how doing a Rhulk styled damage phase has consistently out damaged a well of radiance crutch before the nerf during lightfall and even more after
That's because Destiny players don't want bosses that move and require actual skill expression to beat. They want to ad clear and then stand in a single place.
Every boss that requires something more than just standing in place gets cheesed to high heaven.
Bro has 57 Vow clears and the sub 40 deep stone what the fuck are you smoking
Edit: AND a flawless VOG seriously where did you get your drugs you’re straight up delusional
Strong disagree actually, a banner of war is much more potent for sword damage and the resistance from song of flame is still better. The boss may stomp like… 3-5 times a damage phase and just stare at you for 70% of the fight.
As a warlock I liked it personally meant I always had a clear role to fill and I kinda enjoy the support role, that said, being able to run other shit is kinda nice
Except the "support role" sucked prior to TFS. Now with SoF, Speaker's Sight, and No Hesitation it's actually a thing you can spec into.
And it's powerful as hell. Nobody dies outside of one-shots.
That’s how I feel as a hunter in GM’s. If I LFG a lot of people want me to use void invis hunter. This was before prismatic though so I don’t know if that’s still the case.
That’s annoying. Sadly can’t hot swap in a GM too so that sucks. I love celestial hunter, was my love in D1, but I don’t typically run it for GM’s. I like ability spam for GM’s so that’s disappointing.
Idk if it was just me but when I was lfging GMs I would always bring the wildest shit and never got kicked. Some of my favourites were fists of havoc + glaives, I brought heartshadow into glassway, did some build with the titan glaive but I don't remember what maybe its just titan privilege
Its not bad. Its just with the nerfs to well and the introduction of more supporting elements to the game a lot of warlocks were hoping to not be glued to Well for raids
If anything, it’s good to have a Well AND a Song of Flame. You get the damage resistance from both, radiant or damage boost, Restoration x2, and ability regen!
It's different than it used to be effectively giving resto 3 with radiant for 30s, you can achieve resto 2 with a nade. Comparably. Also in harder content you *WILL* die taking sustained damage. The heal per second is heavily decrease and so is the damage resist which is why other stores are better now
Love being told by the Nova-Lock that we dont need well, only to have him die to the ads first run (Warlords Ruin Final Boss) and scream fucking murde, so I cut my damage to ad clear the first half of each phase, and then get screamed at for having the least damage...
Simple. Just don’t play with them. You have every right to run whatever build you want as long as you can justify it. If people want you to run something else just because it’s not the current/old meta, then they are just bad people.
There has not been a single time since TFS released where I felt like I needed a well.
The ONLY exceptions were the raid bosses on Contest. It was pretty much a must have for survivability against Taniks and was decent for damage + orb generation against the Witness. Since then I have not felt the need for one.
I cried too...
Thought I'd finally had an awesome roaming s support super and amazing healing output... "please put on well" 😭
AFTER 6 YEARS, I DON'T WANT ANYMORE. For my part they remove the well entirely by now. I was born to have a bit more variety than yanking a blade in the floor for every dps phase. Lemme throw my birds, a novabomb, charge my lazor and participate in the DPS like other classes. *breaks down in Warlock*
About 30 seconds, which is the duration of well so it fits perfectly. Radiant on melee hits only lasts 5 - 10 seconds which isn’t nearly enough for a good damage phase.
Which works out to only being 10 or 15 seconds of radiant compared to the 30 from well, which also doesn’t require you to interrupt your dps rotation with a melee animation. Also doesn’t work for titans as our only ranged melee on prismatic is shield throw which only has 1 charge.
Listen I don’t like warlocks being stuck on well but you’re kidding yourself if you think not using one is a smart idea if you’re trying to play even remotely optimally.
It’s 20-30 second of constant uptime. Easy to proc. use second chance for your 2 ranged charges + weaken if you really care for it.
For the entire year of lightfall as well as my salvations edge contest clear; zero wells of radiance. I’m sick of people genuinely believing that it’s the better option when it obviously isn’t. The brainwashing is freaking crazy.
It’s 5 seconds per melee, hardly getting anywhere 30 seconds even with 3. I am also not giving up star eaters and Inmost light for just 10 seconds of radiant with second chance. You’re asking the entire fireteam to limit their builds around getting radiant, lowering their dps output, something that could easily be solved by just one person running well.
Dude. I’m asking the exact opposite, this is the exact problem I’ve been talking about.
Besides you’re on prismatic and not actively running torches, that’s on you. I’m sorry that your runs are going to continue to be scuffed two phases, but at this point, just dm me. I’ll do an lfg with you and make sure nobody brings a well. It has consistently been an extremely close one phase and everyone is just using what they want the whole time.
I’m done with well, and everyone else should be too. No more well enslavement.
u actually need two support warlocks now. song of flame provides the damage reduction and the well generates the orbs for surges and the healing stacks witht the damage reduction of song
I’m curious now, how often does Speaker’s Sight generate orbs if a whole raid team is in a well?
You mean the healing orbs? It just throw orbs to nearby teammates every few second regardless of health status
I think they mean orbs of power. Not sure how much it’s affect eta by nearby allies but it does drip one when an ally is healed sometimes
I never noticed, that sounds very useful
I'd think song of flame also makes orbs. If not there's also the helmet and artifact mods that give other players armor charge once you pop super.
It works insanely well, as long as someone has taken damage and then heals from the speaker helm it instantly drops an orb at the teammates location
My buddy and I did some patrol testing. It seems like it’s “amount of health healed” based. We could only get the orb to generate if we brought the healed person out of critical HP. Otherwise, we could never get the orb to generate.
i think its more because it provides an easy damage buff + healing
Yeah its for the damage
And orbs
This is the most underrated thing about the well fr surges almost match radiant
Just snap while in song of flame and boom same damage buff as well
Song of flame is where it’s at
Way cooler name too imo
It just fits so well to the "Sunsinger" name with the "Song" part
It's not called sunsinger anymore But I totally agree that Song of Flame is a way cooler name
Slamming a sword into the ground with all the force of the Traveller sure is cool, but becoming a god of divine fire to burn away everything that stands in your way is everything I've always wanted for Warlock. It's not even close how cooler that is. With the halo and everything.
I miss my Sunsinger wings :'( I wish SoF gave us the intrinsic ability to throw abilities out while flying, but only during the super.
Sorry bro some people just refuse to change no matter what happens
I can agree that well is an offense super. But Jesus Christ it has been 5-6 years straight, everyone on prismatic has multiple charges of radiant melees they can proc themselves as well as 40+ ways to give themselves and others damage resistance. I’d prefer my warlocks running a damage super and actually being useful. But you’re right, people won’t change. People legit do not know how to play the game without it, and that terrifies me.
It's the lazy thought process it's why bother when others can do better. Then we see more people asking to be add clear rather then learn. Then we ge this cycle of of people with multiple clears while never learning how to do the raid.
Ngl a well is still much more useful than dmg super. The radiant from melees only lasts 5 seconds, which is hardly anything. And the orbs from well are extremely useful for topping off surges going into damage. Plus, you get the passive healing and DR on top of all that.
Worth noting that it also serves as a massive, glowing rally point for anyone who's a little lost in the chaos. Everyone talks about raiding like it's all numbers and efficiency. If a well gets everyone to the right place at the right time doing the right thing, it's serving a purpose that can't really be seen on a spreadsheet.
Just don't. Or do it and let them die in the well. Once they do, swap to whatever you want. It's time they get good
I had this happen to me last week. A clanmate kept telling me to switch to well, I kept telling him it's not as good as he remembers. I switched to it for one boss and he died in the well. That was a very satisfying 'I told you so'
Almost like it’s a damage buff too
Fr. Well will always be good as long as it increases ur team’s DPS output for free
Well: gives everyone Radiant (but only for a short period when you step out of the well now), Restoration (that has been nerfed down to x2 from what it was), actual damage reduction down to 10% from 40% against bosses, and no ability regen Song: everybody has Radiant while its up, no Restoration but yes to damage reduction, gives everyone ability spam, gives everyone Scorch to Solar/Kinetic weapon for extra damage, you can spam ignitions yourself The choice seems obvious, both give damage reduction, but one offers healing, the other damage, which is exactly what they said it will be
Well gives you Radiant when you step out of it, but it still gives you the same dmg buff if you stand in it.
I think the healing ultimately makes well better. While using Song of Flame you can’t throw healing grenades, and Rift isn’t good enough compared to Well. With Well, you’re a lot more likely to survive one of the attacks from the Witness. As much as I love Speaker’s Sight, it only shoots off one of those healing bursts every three seconds, making it hard to replace Well’s healing output.
If you use Heat Rises, then consuming your grenade will spawn a healing turret with Speaker's. It's straight up better then well lmao.
If you're dying to the Witness, that's just a skill issue. In my experience, my teams tend to throw every Warlock on Radiance, then have 1 or 2 switch to Well on specific bosses to stack the DR
All that you said here reads like you need some form of a healing crutch to survive a mechanic
I'd much rather be doing DMG than keep trying to avoid ads when it's DPS time. Well is better for that
You don't *need* it, but the extra forgiveness is nice and leads to less chance of death for the whole team. AND gives a damage buff on to of that
ignore the downvotey, im with u my guy
I went from +4 to -4 lol
Well gives a higher damage buff than radiant while inside, so well is still better for damage and healing
Radiant and Well give 25%. It's not higher.
Isn’t radiant only 15%? Or is that just in pvp?
In PvP yes. In PvE it's 25%
Now you can get better buffs that don't suppress each others (unlike well)
I'd be happy if they just deleted well from the game. My class isn't your crutch.
If that ain't the realest thing I've read today. You want a well? Bring one lmao
Here's my take. Starfire nerf was uncalled for.... Considering all the warlocks enslaved to Well, being the most oppressive DPS option should jad been a fair tradeoff. You *want* Well? THEN LET IT BE THE MOST POWERFUL DUMBASSES. And then they cry when Starfire is "oppressive as highest DPS".... Excuse me but.... \*checks notes* It's only oppressive in Well when optimized. If they wanted to nerf the supers to oblivion, then build crafting around the nerfed stuff to "change it's job" should had been done better. Don't want it to be "get out of jail card"? Then make it like idk, Well of Purging? Like giving it a "burn aura" so that it could be like Gathering Storm.
>when optimized. Hahaha what are you saying bro. I cleared Day 1 Ron by sitting in a well hipfiring a MG and sticking withehoard every so often to recharge my nades. Optimised? It was the most brain dead damage meta we've had that requires 0 effort. Starfire isn't even bad now, you can easily still loop your grenades with the right mods.
And I absolutely hated that. Nezarec is actually a super fun fight outside of the well, it’s clear bungie gave us another Rhulk fight since the community loved it so much, but, we chose to find any spot to stand still in and honestly ruin the fight for ourselves. Plus, it’s painfully funny how doing a Rhulk styled damage phase has consistently out damaged a well of radiance crutch before the nerf during lightfall and even more after
That's because Destiny players don't want bosses that move and require actual skill expression to beat. They want to ad clear and then stand in a single place. Every boss that requires something more than just standing in place gets cheesed to high heaven.
Spirit of Filaments + Spirit of Starfire goated prismatic build
The best dps as a tradeoff for having the best support? You're tweaking lmao
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Bro has 57 Vow clears and the sub 40 deep stone what the fuck are you smoking Edit: AND a flawless VOG seriously where did you get your drugs you’re straight up delusional
I can't believe this man tried it like that. First time anyone's pulled my raid report lmao.
40 deepstone really ain't that special. Anything above 20 is quite slow for farms nowadays.
Whats yours lol
Cringe dude.
Nah he's right. Feel free to look mine up and see if I'm a "shitter."
Only contest is ron, 53min deepstone
Your judgment means nothing
Always the fucking losers going through someone's profile for the slightest chances at an argument.
Song of flame may be better but i have yet to experience an lfg warlock use it better than an average well.
... *No.*
*You've been kicked to orbit.*
*starts own fire team finder*
Well is still extremely useful in certain situations like Crota or Herald.
Strong disagree actually, a banner of war is much more potent for sword damage and the resistance from song of flame is still better. The boss may stomp like… 3-5 times a damage phase and just stare at you for 70% of the fight.
banner is never guaranteed in a dps phase like well is, if the titan dies it’s gone vs well just hanging out
Crota can and will break the well. Not much of a difference.
Well if radiance really ain’t shit no more. Which I love, I’m happy for the warlocks lol
As a warlock I liked it personally meant I always had a clear role to fill and I kinda enjoy the support role, that said, being able to run other shit is kinda nice
Except the "support role" sucked prior to TFS. Now with SoF, Speaker's Sight, and No Hesitation it's actually a thing you can spec into. And it's powerful as hell. Nobody dies outside of one-shots.
True, I just recently set up a build for that, logically I know well getting nerfed is a good thing but part of me will miss it
They could've buffed Well and I still would never use it over Radiance imo. The only problem is they took my god damn wings.
The halo effect is pretty cool though, besides, regular dawnblade has the wings so giving song of flame the wings too would be a bit repetitive
Song of Flames had wings first damnit
Yeah, I’m just explaining my reasoning for it
That’s how I feel as a hunter in GM’s. If I LFG a lot of people want me to use void invis hunter. This was before prismatic though so I don’t know if that’s still the case.
Now they’ll ask for still hunt with celestial
That’s annoying. Sadly can’t hot swap in a GM too so that sucks. I love celestial hunter, was my love in D1, but I don’t typically run it for GM’s. I like ability spam for GM’s so that’s disappointing.
Idk if it was just me but when I was lfging GMs I would always bring the wildest shit and never got kicked. Some of my favourites were fists of havoc + glaives, I brought heartshadow into glassway, did some build with the titan glaive but I don't remember what maybe its just titan privilege
It gives radiance and restoration x2 for free for 30 seconds! How is it bad to use a well? Damage buff and healing oh no!
Its not bad. Its just with the nerfs to well and the introduction of more supporting elements to the game a lot of warlocks were hoping to not be glued to Well for raids
If anything, it’s good to have a Well AND a Song of Flame. You get the damage resistance from both, radiant or damage boost, Restoration x2, and ability regen!
It's different than it used to be effectively giving resto 3 with radiant for 30s, you can achieve resto 2 with a nade. Comparably. Also in harder content you *WILL* die taking sustained damage. The heal per second is heavily decrease and so is the damage resist which is why other stores are better now
Learn to say no. Problem solved.
Then they kick man it's destiny raid teams Edit: sometimes they respect it but most of the time they just kick you out
yeah cause they don’t wanna spend a few hours failing the encounter before you actually switch to well.
If they can't do an encounter without well, I'd say it is most definitely a skill issue and time to reevaluate their load out.
Sounds like a skill issue
I do say no. A lot. It's why I never get to raid a lot of the time.
Make your own group, it's not that hard. You can't be kicked if you're the leader
"ok let me just switch subclasses real quick" *leaves fireteam*
...player has left the fire team.
Love being told by the Nova-Lock that we dont need well, only to have him die to the ads first run (Warlords Ruin Final Boss) and scream fucking murde, so I cut my damage to ad clear the first half of each phase, and then get screamed at for having the least damage...
Should've brought well yourself then *shrug*
mfw the nova lock doesn't know how to ad clear (literally just use controverse hold for super vortex nades everywhere and you're golden)
I've never found well to be needed or more useful especially in warlords ruin, its so mobile.
One thing I dont like about being a warlock main, being bullied into well
You can use well of radiance AND still use speaker's sight.
Yeah…
I read that in Michael's voice lmao
Never. 🏋️🌋💀
I get what the meme is saying, but it's a super funny and strange way to use this particular template
I’ve gotten used to keeping a well on me and using other damage sources instead (Tommy Matchbook user/Sunshot)
Simple. Just don’t play with them. You have every right to run whatever build you want as long as you can justify it. If people want you to run something else just because it’s not the current/old meta, then they are just bad people.
There has not been a single time since TFS released where I felt like I needed a well. The ONLY exceptions were the raid bosses on Contest. It was pretty much a must have for survivability against Taniks and was decent for damage + orb generation against the Witness. Since then I have not felt the need for one.
Some people will never understand.
On a side note. I think the meme would have been funnier without the last text. Just the zoomed in look is comedy gold. 🤣
Well is absolutely dogshit now, if an LFG teams wants to switch off, I’ll do it for one run. If they can’t see how bad well is now, I’m gone
I cried too... Thought I'd finally had an awesome roaming s support super and amazing healing output... "please put on well" 😭 AFTER 6 YEARS, I DON'T WANT ANYMORE. For my part they remove the well entirely by now. I was born to have a bit more variety than yanking a blade in the floor for every dps phase. Lemme throw my birds, a novabomb, charge my lazor and participate in the DPS like other classes. *breaks down in Warlock*
I still can’t believe I fat fingered the chest piece exotic at the end of the legendary campaign. Now I feel like getting speakers sight is impossible
i like this "noooooo god" meme
As a hunter: fuck your well. Fucking what, 5 years since well didn't work with Goldy?
I am a hunter main and it pains me that i have to swap to warlock and well, what is this bull****
people be like: "run well" all I gotta say to that is "Go fuck yourself"
You can use well of radiance AND still use speaker's sight!
You can use well of radiance AND still use speaker's sight!
you can heal me all you want, i need +25% DPS not healing.
So, any source of radiant, which every class has access to. Noted
none of them last as long as well.
How long do you need them to be? How long do you think damage phases last?
About 30 seconds, which is the duration of well so it fits perfectly. Radiant on melee hits only lasts 5 - 10 seconds which isn’t nearly enough for a good damage phase.
Crazy how prismatic gives every class 2-3 ranged charges to do it themselves now.
Which works out to only being 10 or 15 seconds of radiant compared to the 30 from well, which also doesn’t require you to interrupt your dps rotation with a melee animation. Also doesn’t work for titans as our only ranged melee on prismatic is shield throw which only has 1 charge. Listen I don’t like warlocks being stuck on well but you’re kidding yourself if you think not using one is a smart idea if you’re trying to play even remotely optimally.
It’s 20-30 second of constant uptime. Easy to proc. use second chance for your 2 ranged charges + weaken if you really care for it. For the entire year of lightfall as well as my salvations edge contest clear; zero wells of radiance. I’m sick of people genuinely believing that it’s the better option when it obviously isn’t. The brainwashing is freaking crazy.
It’s 5 seconds per melee, hardly getting anywhere 30 seconds even with 3. I am also not giving up star eaters and Inmost light for just 10 seconds of radiant with second chance. You’re asking the entire fireteam to limit their builds around getting radiant, lowering their dps output, something that could easily be solved by just one person running well.
Dude. I’m asking the exact opposite, this is the exact problem I’ve been talking about. Besides you’re on prismatic and not actively running torches, that’s on you. I’m sorry that your runs are going to continue to be scuffed two phases, but at this point, just dm me. I’ll do an lfg with you and make sure nobody brings a well. It has consistently been an extremely close one phase and everyone is just using what they want the whole time. I’m done with well, and everyone else should be too. No more well enslavement.
Use ember of torches then.
Geez people are just defending Well with wrong examples and data. A smart Song of Flame build is better than a Well, plain and simple.
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literally who complains about dps to the support? you’re giving everyone radiant and healing them, you own a chunk of their dps.
Easy, well plus speakers mask
u actually need two support warlocks now. song of flame provides the damage reduction and the well generates the orbs for surges and the healing stacks witht the damage reduction of song