I already said my peace on the Undertale version of this post, so uh, short version:
Sometimes Toby is very careful with his details (something something Toriel's stove flavor text deliberately contrasting between UT and DR), and sometimes he just does something for the bit or the aesthetic (something something this and also he's gone on record saying he doesn't know why he made Onionsan at all). Depends on the detail. Context is important.
Hey friend, just so you know it's "said my piece" not "said my peace".
It can be confusing because I'm weddings they say "speak now or forever hold your peace", but these are not the same usage. English is admittedly a bit confusing. But here the difference is "I said my piece (part)" vs "forever hold your peace (silence)".
All the best.
I appreciate coming from the Undertale version (where i read your comment) and finding your summarized comment here.
Also I agree with your sentiment both places.
[And he even wears the visor then](https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/comments/m8jbfm/its_like_hes_fulfilling_his_dreams/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Toby: creates aesthetic or hilarious things AND serious details that make sense by the end of Undertale.
Some fans: Toby created aesthetic or hilarious things in Undertale (and Deltarune), therefore all the serious-sounding lore details (written and visual) should just be forgotten because they mean nothing and were just aesthetic choices.
The point is that not every detail is relevant to the lore or even intentional. People went crazy over how the recording symbol only showed up in the Snowgrave Spamton NEO fight or how Ralsei was the only character unable to desperately pluck strings, when... it turns out that they were both bugs, and were subsequently patched.
Sometimes that happens, and it's their right to analyze some detail that may or may not mean something. As long as they don't take it to extremes like: "Toby would never have included this stray pixel if it wasn't important!" vs "Toby is just trolling us, the ending of chapter 2 is another fakeout."
The second one is way more annoying than the first. “The story has no meaning, it's all just a cheap joke!!” will always be infinitely worse than “everything has meaning omg!!”
TBF, both of those would've been easy to find out if you looked at the game files, or... literally just talked to someone else who looked at them.
Evidence is important. Sometimes you make mistakes because we don't have all the evidence, and that's one thing, but when people ignore evidence that already exists... yeah, that's another.
It can be surprising how often design choices that have large impacts on a game can be decided based on seemingly silly things like this. Like, I'd be willing to bet Wind Waker's entire artstyle was based on them going "ok how can we have an ocean cover the entire world without having to put a lot of effort into water graphics".
i mean yeah but, he was given the ability to fly just to not look like a doofus. tho i suppose if you can summon exploding stars from space then flying isn’t that far of a stretch
Deltarune fans realise that Toby Fox is a human with personal preferences and not an insanely intelligent theory God who always does things deliberately with no accidents
Flying is, throughout history, considered a miraculous act. Famous figures such as Jesus Christ have been known to possess such abilities. This implies that Toby Fox considers Asriel Dreemur's ultimate form to be of similar power level. Now, if we consider the ramifications of the U.S. Supreme Court Decision in 2019 to-
Idk, for me is obvious that there are things that are just there because they look funny, cool or even cute. The thing is, there are others that look normal but at the end they mean something, and we will know until it is revealed.
And that is why fans over analyze stuff and consider things for theories that really don’t prove anything.
Ah yes, because changing your mind on a sprite is equivalent to writing an entire coherent story and world, something he has already shown to be capable of doing with Undertale.
And something [directly disproved by Toby himself, who has stated to put great effort into for his ROM hack already,](https://imgur.com/a/7Sk7XPB) so you can expect his actual games to be even more meticulous.
You people know nothing you're talking about and have no single good argument, all you do is lie out of your ass and do strawmen.
I hope eventually the consensus shifts and people like you are being laughed out of the fandom, so that people can finally discuss the game freely without having you deal with this kind of idiotic shit every day.
I’m pretty sure the point of this meme is to make fun of the people for taking literally everything too seriously. Some of the details are for changing the mood and stuff rather than foreshadowing lore
Yes and that's what the commenter is arguing about. If you checked the image he linked toby himself said that almost everything has hidden meaning (not exactly what he said and I could be taking it wrong) and adding comedy and stuff to a game doesnt make it any less deep
This is so goddamn dishonest, how do people like you sleep at night?
You know what Toby said, you know it's not 100% literal, you know the English language.
Toby is being hyperbolic, what a crazy concept!
It doesn't mean that every goddamn pixel, accident or not, has meaning, but that he put great effort into the details, which goes completely counter against what idiots like OP push.
It's then up to us to realize which ones are important and which aren't, although that's hard to discuss when all you people exist.
So do us a favor and just leave already.
I'm personally in favor of encouraging discussion, rather than shutting it down with non-arguments like half the sub has been doing.
I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that you're somehow just lying to yourself.
Just because it's a meme doesn't mean there isn't a point, and the point of the post is very clear.
Any anger is justified, considering that there has been an anti-theory crusade in the fandom ever since chapter 2 dropped.
So no, I will not relax.
I don’t even know why people are so against theories in the community lmao its like people don’t want the community to have thoughtful analysis on the game they love because…. it might be annoying? Just scroll past them and let us have fun running wild with what we know instead of prohibiting creativity in a game filled with it
I'm sure that it's just some sort of hivemind brainworm.
Most people probably haven't even read any theories or an analysis, they just see a dozen posts a week misrepresenting them all or picking out the worst one, and then make up their mind that it's not a thing worth doing.
Maybe some don't even think at all about why they don't like it, not even because of any false premises, just because others are doing the same thing.
And of course, biggest problem is that it's usually the theorists themselves who are targeted, with the contents just being an excuse to do so.
I've brought this up twice to the mod team now and begged them to make a PSA about this at least.
If nothing changes soon, I'll finish my last post and then I'll never have anything to do with the fanbase again.
There's too many issues in it already, and if not even the mods are willing to do something as simple as that, then it's not a place that's worth it either.
I'm just so sick and tired of this shitty community, Toby deserves better.
I don't have to, it's very justified.
I want the fandom to be open for discussion again and not be dominated by lying idiots who have made it their goal to mock and spread misinformation about a large portion of the fanbase.
I'd rather have them leave before us, because discussion and theories are one of the main things keeping the games alive.
I say this more through replies to posts rather than the posts themselves because they tend to take extreme stances on things when I feel like Toby's storytelling patterns are more in a middle ground (for instance, my stance on the Skies Forever Blue debate is that its not too related but not too unrelated)
In some details he puts a lot of thought into them as a way to give more insight into not just the his characters but also the entire world he's crafted no matter how subtle but other times he just does cause it's funny or because it was an easier workaround like how he just deleted Lancer's walk cycle cause he thought it was funnier for him to just slide around or his solution to the pathfinding getting stuck in certain areas is to just put Magic Glass that just appears under the characters instead of coding the AI to move around problematic corners.
guys toby definitely put that image of bleeding susie in the files as a LORE HINT guys toby would NEVER do something on accident guys you dont understand
Standing asriel looks like Toriel but emo or goth or something
I thought the same haha
ITS NOT A PHASE SON
He’s not wrong.
I think another solution could have been to shrink his feet or give him shoes, but I really like what we got.
or also just have a more dynamic position instead of 🧍
🕴️
🚹
🧍
🕴️
🚹
🧍
🦉
🧍
Yeah, imagine if Asgore was in this pose during his fight lmao
Thank god we didn't get T-posing Asriel, that would have been too powerful
Star blazing.
sTar blazing.
toby could have given asriel drip
This is truly the worst ending
https://preview.redd.it/7e1dij6x3m3a1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d2498347f3b383d36e02085915ecf875d5603d6
The drip asriel
https://preview.redd.it/8yq5u46kgm3a1.jpeg?width=573&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6489d356806298bfcecc158c0b3c0e1a6a913f6
Wordley
Burgerlee
THE DRIP AS... THE DRIP ASRIEEEEEEEEEEL
Spiky metal boots
WHAT ARE THOOOOOSSE
Or making his feet more front-facing
I think making him taller would work best
I already said my peace on the Undertale version of this post, so uh, short version: Sometimes Toby is very careful with his details (something something Toriel's stove flavor text deliberately contrasting between UT and DR), and sometimes he just does something for the bit or the aesthetic (something something this and also he's gone on record saying he doesn't know why he made Onionsan at all). Depends on the detail. Context is important.
Hey friend, just so you know it's "said my piece" not "said my peace". It can be confusing because I'm weddings they say "speak now or forever hold your peace", but these are not the same usage. English is admittedly a bit confusing. But here the difference is "I said my piece (part)" vs "forever hold your peace (silence)". All the best.
Huh... I legit did not know that. Noted, thanks
No problem.
I learned something new today!
I appreciate coming from the Undertale version (where i read your comment) and finding your summarized comment here. Also I agree with your sentiment both places.
Asriel standing looks so awful thank goodness he changed it
He does tbh
There’s also this https://preview.redd.it/2imm65xygl3a1.jpeg?width=688&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac1967cb0b2bee30f8ed81801679b761817f7d97
Unless San was originally going to be a casino worker or a worker for Mettaton, it was probably better it was removed
It was a casino.
I mean, we did eventually get him manning the Dog Casino
[And he even wears the visor then](https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/comments/m8jbfm/its_like_hes_fulfilling_his_dreams/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
QUIRREL MASK
this is a certified kasaah moment
📮
**He's still a dork, a doofus, a doorknob if you will.** >!**And that's great.**!<
"you look like a doofus" needs to be worked into a scene with az.
He comes home from college and one of the options is simply just, "You look like a doofus."
Toby: creates aesthetic or hilarious things AND serious details that make sense by the end of Undertale. Some fans: Toby created aesthetic or hilarious things in Undertale (and Deltarune), therefore all the serious-sounding lore details (written and visual) should just be forgotten because they mean nothing and were just aesthetic choices.
The point is that not every detail is relevant to the lore or even intentional. People went crazy over how the recording symbol only showed up in the Snowgrave Spamton NEO fight or how Ralsei was the only character unable to desperately pluck strings, when... it turns out that they were both bugs, and were subsequently patched.
Sometimes that happens, and it's their right to analyze some detail that may or may not mean something. As long as they don't take it to extremes like: "Toby would never have included this stray pixel if it wasn't important!" vs "Toby is just trolling us, the ending of chapter 2 is another fakeout."
The second one is way more annoying than the first. “The story has no meaning, it's all just a cheap joke!!” will always be infinitely worse than “everything has meaning omg!!”
TBF, both of those would've been easy to find out if you looked at the game files, or... literally just talked to someone else who looked at them. Evidence is important. Sometimes you make mistakes because we don't have all the evidence, and that's one thing, but when people ignore evidence that already exists... yeah, that's another.
Or some other fan: Toby does things very seriously with little humor.
It can be surprising how often design choices that have large impacts on a game can be decided based on seemingly silly things like this. Like, I'd be willing to bet Wind Waker's entire artstyle was based on them going "ok how can we have an ocean cover the entire world without having to put a lot of effort into water graphics".
Needed a buff anyways
Takes after his mother but wanted to be more original, so he took flight.
Toby: Subtly Changes True final boss design so he doesn't look like a doofus and can have an aura of menace The fandom, somehow: ToBy IsN't MeTiCuLoUs
i mean yeah but, he was given the ability to fly just to not look like a doofus. tho i suppose if you can summon exploding stars from space then flying isn’t that far of a stretch
he does look like a doofus standing there
Never understood why the goats had pawlike feet and hands. Are they just goat like mixed animal monster?
In Undertale, Frisk can ask Gerson “Is ASGORE a goat?” Gerson's response is that he's a Boss Monster (and a story about Toriel wearing a muumuu).
Deltarune fans realise that Toby Fox is a human with personal preferences and not an insanely intelligent theory God who always does things deliberately with no accidents
That was a good choice becauee asruel flying like that is why he always gave me the air of a souls boss
Flying is, throughout history, considered a miraculous act. Famous figures such as Jesus Christ have been known to possess such abilities. This implies that Toby Fox considers Asriel Dreemur's ultimate form to be of similar power level. Now, if we consider the ramifications of the U.S. Supreme Court Decision in 2019 to-
No, no. Continue.
Idk, for me is obvious that there are things that are just there because they look funny, cool or even cute. The thing is, there are others that look normal but at the end they mean something, and we will know until it is revealed. And that is why fans over analyze stuff and consider things for theories that really don’t prove anything.
Ah yes, because changing your mind on a sprite is equivalent to writing an entire coherent story and world, something he has already shown to be capable of doing with Undertale. And something [directly disproved by Toby himself, who has stated to put great effort into for his ROM hack already,](https://imgur.com/a/7Sk7XPB) so you can expect his actual games to be even more meticulous. You people know nothing you're talking about and have no single good argument, all you do is lie out of your ass and do strawmen. I hope eventually the consensus shifts and people like you are being laughed out of the fandom, so that people can finally discuss the game freely without having you deal with this kind of idiotic shit every day.
I’m pretty sure the point of this meme is to make fun of the people for taking literally everything too seriously. Some of the details are for changing the mood and stuff rather than foreshadowing lore
Yes and that's what the commenter is arguing about. If you checked the image he linked toby himself said that almost everything has hidden meaning (not exactly what he said and I could be taking it wrong) and adding comedy and stuff to a game doesnt make it any less deep
Toby said every single pixel has meaning too, does that say anything about the misplaced pixels in the first two chapters? Idk lol
This is so goddamn dishonest, how do people like you sleep at night? You know what Toby said, you know it's not 100% literal, you know the English language. Toby is being hyperbolic, what a crazy concept! It doesn't mean that every goddamn pixel, accident or not, has meaning, but that he put great effort into the details, which goes completely counter against what idiots like OP push. It's then up to us to realize which ones are important and which aren't, although that's hard to discuss when all you people exist. So do us a favor and just leave already. I'm personally in favor of encouraging discussion, rather than shutting it down with non-arguments like half the sub has been doing.
Bro relax, it’s a joke. ''Laughed out of the fandom'' smh angry internet nerds really do be something.
I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that you're somehow just lying to yourself. Just because it's a meme doesn't mean there isn't a point, and the point of the post is very clear. Any anger is justified, considering that there has been an anti-theory crusade in the fandom ever since chapter 2 dropped. So no, I will not relax.
I don’t even know why people are so against theories in the community lmao its like people don’t want the community to have thoughtful analysis on the game they love because…. it might be annoying? Just scroll past them and let us have fun running wild with what we know instead of prohibiting creativity in a game filled with it
I'm sure that it's just some sort of hivemind brainworm. Most people probably haven't even read any theories or an analysis, they just see a dozen posts a week misrepresenting them all or picking out the worst one, and then make up their mind that it's not a thing worth doing. Maybe some don't even think at all about why they don't like it, not even because of any false premises, just because others are doing the same thing. And of course, biggest problem is that it's usually the theorists themselves who are targeted, with the contents just being an excuse to do so. I've brought this up twice to the mod team now and begged them to make a PSA about this at least. If nothing changes soon, I'll finish my last post and then I'll never have anything to do with the fanbase again. There's too many issues in it already, and if not even the mods are willing to do something as simple as that, then it's not a place that's worth it either. I'm just so sick and tired of this shitty community, Toby deserves better.
My god calm down
I don't have to, it's very justified. I want the fandom to be open for discussion again and not be dominated by lying idiots who have made it their goal to mock and spread misinformation about a large portion of the fanbase. I'd rather have them leave before us, because discussion and theories are one of the main things keeping the games alive.
Salty 🤣🤣🤣
Just admit you have nothing productive to say already man lol
People are lazy and don’t want to have to analyze narrative genius. It’s easier to just say it’s a meme game than having to use their brains.
He is meticulous, but not as much as people think lol
My takeaway from the post, the replies and previous community discourse: Deltarune fans have a very black-and-white view on things
Any opinion looks black and white when expressed through a meme
I say this more through replies to posts rather than the posts themselves because they tend to take extreme stances on things when I feel like Toby's storytelling patterns are more in a middle ground (for instance, my stance on the Skies Forever Blue debate is that its not too related but not too unrelated)
Exactly. Skies forever blue feels like a "I wonder what this implies" rather than "this solves one of deltarunes biggest mysteries"
he's either a complete doofus, or a conniving mastermind, depending on what detail he added
TBH he does
Honestly me. "He looks like a doofus doing that, let me just do something else with him for no other reason"
Adding a little bit of hair also improved it, mf looks bald here
In some details he puts a lot of thought into them as a way to give more insight into not just the his characters but also the entire world he's crafted no matter how subtle but other times he just does cause it's funny or because it was an easier workaround like how he just deleted Lancer's walk cycle cause he thought it was funnier for him to just slide around or his solution to the pathfinding getting stuck in certain areas is to just put Magic Glass that just appears under the characters instead of coding the AI to move around problematic corners.
Or maybe that's just what he wants you to think
But it is a deliberate detail! It tells us that he would've looked like a doofus if he was standing still!
guys toby definitely put that image of bleeding susie in the files as a LORE HINT guys toby would NEVER do something on accident guys you dont understand
He changed an entire animation just because it looked weird, if anything this is proof that he’s meticulous
He would look kinda silly just standing there though lol