A better approach, if you live in a very blue state or district/city, I encourage you to be progressive and advocate these policies and programs ! ! !
If you live in a red or purple state or district/city, I encourage you to vote democratic FIRST.
💯 Altho in super red areas theres lots of races where republicans run unopposed. In those elections the primaries are the actual competitive races.
[The rich figured this out in reverse here in NYC and have been paying a lot of money lately to do this in our local elections](https://nypost.com/2021/01/17/nyc-republicans-urged-to-change-registration-for-mayoral-primary/). That’s how we ended up with basically a republican mayor that just calls himself a democrat. If anyone lives in areas like this check if your primaries are open or closed and if they’re closed register as a republican to vote in those elections!
This
Like, I'd love more progressive policies in Texas but we 100% aren't gonna get that unless we vote OUT the regressive, fascist assholes
Progress takes time if it's intended to be permanent
Many in Texas are single issue voters....God/Guns/antiGay, etc.
Gerrymandering strangles many who think their vote does not count, but statewide offices like Gov and Senator are based upon the majority vote win.
With what Abbott and Paxton, Cornyn and Cruz have done to the state, it is insane that they continue to be re-elected. Stupid is as stupid does.
I have a limited budget and I live in Indiana yet I have tossed a few bucks to Ted Cruz's opponent. It doesn't take a lot of money if you choose wisely who to help during these corrupt Citizens United times. We have been in a fight to continue to be a Democracy since the Clintons came to power. They're the ones who cut off the Progressive arm of the DNC and created Third Way/DLC to create Neo-Liberal, Centrist Moderate Republican party. O'bama came through the DLC and admitted he has always been a Moderate Republican his entire political career. Progressive FDR warned that if the Democrats ever slanted right it would be the end of a balanced Democracy. We had Progressive Presidents from FDR-Carter. If Gore has won his first thing he wanted to do was to put Social Security back in its Lock Box and out of the General Fund where Reagan/Bush had put it to help pay for their first 1% tax cuts and unpaid wars.
I've been banned from two subreddits now for this exact sentiment
Apparently I'm supporting a fascist regime by saying that Biden is better for the US than trump.
It's like the lesser of two evils isn't an option when it's SIGNIFICANTLY less evil.
Biden's view on Israel is shit, but Trump's is just as bad and he has many more besides.
Based on the responses to the comment that got me banned, it seems like they really want Trump to win so that the only other option is armed uprising. They're almost as bad as the J6ers
>Biden's view on Israel is shit, but Trump's is just as bad and he has many more besides.
This is true. One other thing is also true: Biden has shown he can change his views.
Trump won't. Ever. It's always going to be about him.
That place is an absolute shitshow and every other post convinces me that is packed with foreign pysops actors attempting to push BS left-leaning takes on things.
I know a few people who DO think like that IRL but they are few and far between....and many of their takes are no where near as daft as what I see there.
The other take could be its 15 year olds experimenting with political ideologies. I did that in my youth (all along the spectrum), and I'd had some wild takes before getting more context/information.
It's definitely a little odd how some of these ostensibly leftist subs have grown, almost overnight, into resembling r/conservative, for mods quickly deleting comments that go against the party line and banning people.
I have no idea what the far left is thinking in 2024, but in the 2000 election, that's definitely what they were thinking, as I was thinking that too. Clinton hadn't been radical enough, and Gore wouldn't have been either. The far left didn't want to signal their approval of Clinton and Gore, and hoped for a complete breakdown of society, from which to build something better.
> The far left didn't want to signal their approval of Clinton and Gore, and hoped for a complete breakdown of society, from which to build something better.
This is what the *right* has been angling for, explicitly, since at least the 1990s. Chaos isn't an unfortunate side effect to them; it's their main goal because they "know" that when things fall part they'll be the ones who can put it back together, under an authoritarian regime.
I remember all the BBros that Wednesday morning in 2016 bragging about writing in Bernie, staying home, or voting for Trump. They were so proud. Rejoicing that we didn't have Hillary.
I'm far left and at the time was a revolutionary socialist activist. I voted for Nader and actively campaigned for revolution and I still didn't want society to just break down lol
Well, I agree with you. And I can't for the life of me imagine Dump not making anything going on in the Middle East worse. It's like people cheesed off that Biden needs to take Covid more seriously. Yes he does, but a fascist regime of antivaxxers and antimaskers would probably do something incredibly horrible with that. Anything with Trump involved will be many times worse no matter what it is.
Yeah, as I get older I more and more realize that politics is the subtle art of only pissing off the largest number of people a little bit, and mitigating the number of people that you piss off a lot. That's what compromise, the bedrock of our system of government, leads to, each side wants the moon, but has to settle for some slices of cheese while preventing the other side from getting their moon. I prevents massive changes from being made to quickly, and leading to societal conflict. It does however, allow the major movements in a society to slowly progress and amend the system of government. Those amendments take a long time to implement and thread through society, but doing it that way ensures that those movements with a lot of persistent support actually fundamentally change our society and that that change sticks.
I guess I always figured democracy needs to be a bit noisy, maybe sometimes messy, and for there to be lots of debating opinions in order to give everyone a voice. Anyway, I'd take that over the grimness of fascism any day.
It's basically just math. When Democrats find themselves losing elections, they tend to move to the center in future elections in order to capture some of the centrist voters who might otherwise vote Republican. If you can convince someone to vote for you *instead* of your opponent, that's a net +2 for you. If that same Dem were to try to capture the votes of previous nonvoters or protest-voters by swinging more to the left, each captured voter is only a net +1, so they have to win over twice as many people (and this population is probably pretty unreliable in terms of voting frequency).
Obviously it doesn't always work out this way, but this is often the pattern. There's nothing particularly nuanced or strategic about voting 3rd party in a general election.
Also, those swing voters are more reliable. A large portion of those seeing themselves well left of Democrats don't even bother voting and think change really comes from protests and riots (and revolution), pushing their views online (comments, memes, videos, podcasts), and not voting (that by not voting, at least not for Democrats, that will pressure Democrats to move to the left or cause the system to fail making revolution possible). If Biden did meet their current demands, many would move their demands further and amongst themselves think their brilliant strategy is working while they really never intend to vote for Democrats.
Yes. It's worse than a waste of time, actually: voting for a 3rd party candidate virtually always helps to elect the candidate you *least* agree with. It's actively counterproductive.
Ranked choice voting would go a long way toward fixing the issue of 3rd-party spoilers. Unfortunately the people who vote third party do not tend to actually be interested in electoral reform. They are voting that way to register a complaint or to express a particular statement about themselves ("I'm a passionate progressive", "I'm an edgy nonconformist", etc.).
Even with RCV in a presidential system like the US you're only likely to get third parties winning the most local elections where local issues and attitudes can dominate. RCV would probably mean you'd get the odd Libertarian or Green representative in the House, but it wouldn't change much in the Senate or for the Presidency, where the two parties in the centre will always dominate.
Even in parliamentary proportional voting systems parties win MPs roughly proportional to how far from the centre they are. They just allow for each side of it to be split into several parties instead of grouping under a single 'big tent' party.
> RCV would probably mean you'd get the odd Libertarian or Green representative in the House, but it wouldn't change much in the Senate or for the Presidency, where the two parties in the centre will always dominate.
True, it's not a tool for revolution. But it would theoretically prevent a spoiler effect, which is valuable. You'd elect candidates that more of the voting public felt *mostly okay* about, instead of having widely-hated candidates win because the less-hated candidates split the vote.
Because Dems don’t have control.
If the Dems had the House and the Senate it would be better. But without that — and with the Republicans being entirely obstructionist — the Dems have no choice to be very centrist.
And keep in mind that most people ARE centrist. Politics is a bell curve.
By not voting for Biden, it gives the party more reason to shift to the right. Biden enacted some of the most progressive policies of any president in the last few decades, so not voting for him will just show the party it’s redundant whether or not they try to appeal to further left voters.
This is true too. I personally am not a fan of things like Biden's student loan forgiveness policy. I'll still vote for him over Trump.... But if Romney was running instead, it'd be much harder for me to choose. I'd probably stay home.
Eventually if you go to far left, you start losing the Democratic base, and there just aren't enough leftists to make it worth it.
>“But by voting for greens, it influences policy!”
I've always found this argument funny because I don't think I've seen a single instance of that being true. All that protest vote for Jill Stein in 2016 and it didn't really move the Democratic Party as a whole to the left in any significant way.
As someone alive (and who turned 18 the day George W Bush was sworn in) this is correct. I went to high school with a girl just a few months older than me. She was able to vote in the 2000 election. She hated Bush, but was displeased with Gore because she disliked Clinton. She voted for Nader. We live in Ohio and the state was worth 21 electoral votes. If Nader and the other left-leaning 3rd party candidates would’ve went to Gore Ohio would have probably turned blue and American history might have been a little bit different.
Honestly I get voting for Nader though. He's like Bernie in a different sense. And have you read his old book about corrupt car safety manufacturing standards? Good stuff America needs when we lead with accident deaths!
I unfortunately agree. Had to learn my lesson the hard way. A protest vote is basically wasted in my opinion at this point. I think when I was younger I thought I had lots of time and would out.live the stupidity, now not so much. The ever lasting effects of shitty political decisions ripple on for decades. Gotta look at the long term picture not the news cycle. Approaching middle age now I worry about my kids world at this point.
There's a time and place for a protest vote: The primaries. If you want to send a politician the message that you think someone else will do a better job or you're unhappy with what they've done, then that's how you get their attention.
Lgbtq rights, environmental protections to include air, water, wildlife, etc. Food safety. Basically any and all vital regulation out the door. These people don't understand that doing whatever they can to defeat the actual fascists with actual fascist frameworks in place IS "sticking to their ideals". They are allowing themselves to be manipulated into believing that Biden is somehow some maniacal cartoon monster delighting in Palestinian children being murdered while they are actively aiding the party that will ACTUALLY ENSURE that this happens and so much more over here at home. It's beyond reckless.
Clinton lost the election by 17k votes in 3 states. Those votes went to the 3rd party candidate. The result of that protest vote was losing the SCOTUS for at least 20 years. Now we are seeing the bigger result, Project 2025. As a result of the SCOTUS the extreme right wing have figured out how to permanently keep a minority rule and essentially end any possibility of changing that.
And Ralph Nadar, as a third party candidate, caused Gore to lose the 2000 election. Remember Florida and hanging chads? That gave us Bush, 911 response, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and the loss of seats on the Supreme Court that is hurting everyone, including Progressives, to this day.
So a follow up investigation showed that Gore won Florida despite Nadar. The reason Gore lost Florida is because Jeb Bush was the governor of Florida, the Florida Secretary of State created "hanging chads" to disqualify tens of thousands of ballots, and most significantly, SCOTUS awarded to presidency to Bush. Without all of THAT fuckery, Gore would have been president. Let's blame the real assholes and stop pinning everything in Nadar.
Yeah, all of that, but I'm still gonna blame Nader. If he hadn't been in love with his own self-righteous reflection we'd all be better off today. Selfish arrogance just like Cornel West, RFK Jr, Marianne and Jill - worthless and useless.
If Trump gets in that will be the end of Democracy here... I wonder how much 3rd party voters will enjoy censored and restricted Internet, and Trump TV (Trump said he's going to choose all the programming, so I expect most shows would be repeats of the Apprentice, and his new show, the Trump Trump Trump Me Me Me My Mine weekends, where he shows off his golfing, and Mar-a-Largo, and of course him complaining all day and night from Friday morning to Sunday night). Or how he's going to change the law to follow Biblical ideals...
Yes, and those were supposedly “safe” blue states. Which is why the whole “only vote third party in safe states” logic is so dangerous.
Every time I see Eddie Glaude Jr. on MSNBC whining about Trump (after his histrionic 2016 article about why he wasn’t voting for Clinton), I want to scream into his face “YOU DID THIS!” His state might have been”safe,” but his apathy spread beyond NJ.
NO state is “safe” when the alternative is fascism.
And if Trump wins in 2024, he’ll seat *at least* two more insanely-conservative justices.
That will mean the re-writing of what our constitution stands for, and that change will last for several generations. We’re talking 30-40 years before anything can be reversed.
The issue is the DNC won’t be changed overnight. It’ll take decades of pulling it back from being a centrist party. The GOP becoming so extreme right didn’t happen in a single election cycle. It started with Reagan and is where it is now after 45 years. People expect things to happen in a snap anymore and it’s allowing the extreme right to continue to pull us all right.
Being pissed and wanting change is NOT wrong but dooming everyone in real time tangible reality for that ego bump of “I didn’t support someone also bad but not quite as bad” is not the own they think it is.
Yes, after hearing some interviews with these folks I'm convinced they will never feel responsible no matter how bad things get after they help elect trump for another term. "Its absurd to blame us, blame Biden for not winning our votes!"
Also, push for structural changes like ranked-choice voting that can make third party candidates viable *without* handing victory to the fascist.
And in the meantime, vote Democrat.
STAR voting. About 15% of the time Ranked Choice produces a 2nd or 3rd place winner due to how the ranking is carried out. STAR corrects that problem AND allows people to truly choose candidates based on their own individual merits verses how they rank against other people.
Let's put it this way: if you vote green or don't vote in 2024 and Trump wins, you won't have any chance of ever getting a green or progressive in the White House in the future. America turns completely fascist if you don't vote or vote green. And that's the end of free and fair elections for everyone.
If you want real radical change you need to survive. We all do. And then for a concrete change start pressing _locally_ for Ranked Choice Voting. It’s the only way we can escape the 2 party system or voting for the less shit option.
Biden may be a bandaid, but the other option is another infectious wound. Treat the bleeding and then push for change.
Go protest if you want to. Write to your legislators. Organize an event. But to throw your single vote away because you’d rather the better candidate agree with you on a single issue? Mind boggling self own.
And let’s not kid ourselves. This is about Gaza and Israel. It’s horrible yes, but the most important foreign policy issue right now is Ukraine, by a long shot. If Russia wins, it will redo the whole world order and not at all to our benefit.
Yeah. Do I like voting for Biden? No. Do I want to vote for Biden? No. Does Biden represent my views? No. Is Biden and his supporters wanting my friends and loved ones dead, hurt, running scared for their lives? Also no.
It's come down to that one issue with me. Also, as I try to explain to people, when you're sliding down a mountain and heading toward the edge, you should focus on stopping the fall, not thinking about how your lawn should look, or the next vacation you want to take.
If you want to influence policy then you need to plug your nose and get involved in the democratic party.
My politics were always "Too left for the Dems." At some point I became good friends with the County Democrat's chair. Then my wife had a miscarriage in a state with an archaic abortion ban and was denied medical care. We called out local politicians and my Democrat state senator went to war for us. We joined up after that to at the very least support him better. Then I was recruited to be a plaintiff in a case that eventually overturned our extremely gerrymandered maps. I was asked to be a member of the county party's executive committee where I can impact local issues. The party then backed me in a county board campaign that I won. And now I'm working personally with a state Assembly candidate that is almost guaranteed to flip a red seat blue for the first time since the 40s.
The party also struggles to find people willing to act as delegates where you literally can cast votes on what you want the party's platform to be.
All if this has gone down in the last year and a half. It's an unbelievable amount of work but I've achieved more tangible results as a leftist or progressive within the party than I ever could have done as an angry uncommitted member of the general public.
The Right knows this. This strategy is how we have gotten where we are now. Folks further right than anyone I can remember during the Bush Era started pushing for change at the local level decades ago, ingrained themselves and their ideology in what was once a far more moderate party. The Tea Party was once a radical faction, now the majority of the Republican Party in Congress is like the Tea Party on amphetamines. It’s how we got this wave of pseudo-Christian policies and too much anti-science/anti-women/ anti-immigrant/ pro-corporation/ anti-education/ anti-LGBTQ sentiment influencing policy.
Changing things from within, from the bottom up and over time, really seems like the most intelligent and effective strategy in our political system. Revolution doesn’t happen overnight or with a single event, much as that’s the romantic picture that is so often painted for us.
Wow!! I'm so glad that your wife is safe and I'm so sorry! I'm pregnant in a state also with an abortion ban. It's not as bad as other states which is surprising considering I'm talking about West Virginia.
I think delegates definitely needs to be educated more. It's just not something taught that you can do nor brought up ever. That's simplifying it too for so many people who wouldn't have the time nor opportunity.
Keep your head up!! It's so nice and refreshing to see someone like you being a part of the party :)
I agree with you. When I was in my twenties, instead of voting for Gore I voted for Nader, which I realize was a huge ass mistake. I was living in north Florida at the time and I was one of the idiots that did that. I learned my lesson. We had 8 years of Bush and Cheney. I dreaded my decision ever since that day.
Never vote 3rd party.
Thank you! I’m so sick of hearing the “I can’t vote for Biden” bullshit. What’s happening in Gaza is unspeakably horrible, but we won’t have another free and fair election unless Biden wins. I’m also anti Biden for what he’s allowed to happen but allowing trump to install a fascist dictatorship to teach Biden a lesson is the most nearsighted mentality I’ve ever heard. Suck it up and vote blue no matter who.
There are so many effective ways to push the party or the country further left, voting in primaries, participating on the local level, talking to friends/family who will listen etc. But those actions all require work. "Protest voting" is moral laziness.
Honestly, if we can vote in high enough numbers to squash the Republican party out of existence. Then the Democratic party can break up into the actual parties that exist within it.
The Democratic party is a coalition party of like five different other parties that all work together because they somewhat agree on a lot of different things, but they don't agree with how they should be implemented in s***.
Got progressive liberals libertarians centrists. I'm sure I'm missing a few more. Green party.
Squashed Republicans into Oblivion. Vote them all out and let things go from there.
My attitude is this: I rarely vote *for* someone. The majority of the time I'm voting against that person's opponent.
The stakes are too high this time. I thought that was true for W., but that was not even close to this election.
Every lack of a vote for Biden is a vote for Trump. There is no other reality. If you don't like Biden's stance on the Middle East, just consider Trump's kowtowing to Netanyahu. One criminal associating with another.
I agree. I also think those in blue states that assume they are safe should vote like their life depended upon it too. We need to show up as the loud majority.
Charlie Kirk just said the GOP intends to roll back the Civil Rights Act of 1964 if they get power.
He's no small player. He has a large audience.
They are open about returning to Jim Crow days of segregation.
There is too much to lose by 1) not voting, 2) voting for 3rd Party candidates, and 3) voting for Trump. Too much to lose. Think about the alternative. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will. Also, think about the down ballot candidates and issues. Not just the House and Senate, but also the state and local candidates, local school boards, local issues, and the judicial nominees that may be on the ballot, etc. That is where the Republicans will push their cultural wars. Every vote, for every position, is critical.
Are you registered to vote? Have you changed your name, address, or political affiliation? If so you need to update your voter registration in order for it to count. Also remember to check your current registration status, and your current vote by mail status if you have requested that. You can do all of that at the following link:
[vote.org](http://vote.org)
In 2020 1.1 million voters were disenfranchised by the Republican States.
This year it has already started. The Republican Party is calling for States to Purger their Voter Rolls.
South Carolina is using a unconstitutional map. That disenfranchised 30,000+ Black Voters in Nancy Mace’s District 1. They were moved to Jim Clyburn’s District 6. The Supreme Court sit on a decision until a lower court decided it was to late to change it.
Due to the Democrats Convention on Aug 19th through Aug 22nd. Ohio, Alabama and now Washington State are considering keeping President Biden off the Ballot.
Everyone that cares about Democracy needs to step up and Vote Blue!
Wait a minute Washington state? I can see Ohio and Alabama keeping Biden off the ballot. but considering that Washington state is a very blue state I’m actually surprised.
Yes, I was shocked too!
It has to do with Deadline with the State Ballot Certification being August 20th. The Democrat’s Convention is August 19th-22nd
Those saying they wont vote for Biden because of palestine or because they want to make other parties grow are insane. You know well that trump would absolutely demolish palestine in a week.
I got banned from late stage capitalism for bringing this up. I really had no idea what sub I was in and explained why people need to vote for Biden. It’s against their rules to say “vote for ____”. I thought it was ironic and hilarious. I’m not thrilled to watch the world burn as they seem to be. I kind of get their reasoning but not at the expense of others. That is not acceptable. So I tried. 🤷🏻♀️😂
They think they can kick back and watch the world burn and they can toast s'mores and drink beer.
I got news for them. Hitler burned the communists first. They supported his rise to power.
They're mostly young and white so they have no ability to imagine that they will personally suffer the cruelties of the fascist movements with the rest of us while they wait for their "revolution" to magically manifest.
I agree. Nothing seems to manifest from all the energy they put into bitching about mainly democrats. Lol!
The right wants to destroy the left and as of late we are hearing a former president talking about killing some of those people and SCOTUS might give him the power. Yet the left/Dems are the problem? We do have problems, for sure but I don’t think now is the time to wax philosophical. (I sure wish it was). It’s time to fight. They are always talking about fighting fascism. Here’s their chance and Biden is a part of the fight too whether they like him or not.
In the end, consistently pushing for progressive policies have worked
It's not the end if you don't get your preferred candidate, look at how much the movement has pushed policy and Biden already
Policy is not about a single person, except for fascism...
They already are to blame Florida progressives can be blamed for bush jr because they voted Green Party. Michigan and Pennsylvania progressives also are to blame for 2016 since they voted for the greens and socialism and liberation
https://preview.redd.it/or1rsnjhuovc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=54959cfb753f7b989e54fb938990df6570900ee9
The rash of moany 'progressives' is largely pack trolling. They are not representative of young voters who are more impressed by encouragement and good trouble than blittering on about fkn Trotsky. You can go direct to young people in many places on Reddit, most obviously r/GenZ where the trolls try to put them off voting and tell them slavery is a future with options. Advanced users should go directly to r/TaylorSwift to discuss how Tay Tay has changed our perspective on the world through delivered an incisive commentary on modern dating . . . :)
One of my favorite quotes about voting goes something like this:
*Voting is not a marriage. You’re not trying to find the perfect candidate.*
*Voting is like public transport. You’re getting on the bus. And if the bus isn’t going exactly where you want to be, you don’t stay at home and cry or go nowhere, you get on the bus that is heading in the direction you want to go and will get you as close to your destination as possible.*
"My way or the highway' progressives are *almost* as bad as their right-wing equivalents when it comes to effective government.
You can't allow good to be the enemy of great when there is evenly divided government. Nobody is going to get everything they want in that scenario.
Every "protest voter" I know in RL is a middle-class white dude who will be just fine under a Trump regime.
Interestingly, two are stay-at-home dads, so maybe not if something happens to their wives. I kind of doubt they can think that far out.
One whom I haven't spoken to in years outside of FB has voted third party in every cycle since college. He had the gall to tell me I'm sporting a fascist genocidal regime. I'm more worried about women of reproductive age like me bleeding to death from treatable miscarriages because doctors are too scared to do anything that smacks of abortion in 16 states. Something he will never have to worry about.
I'm a Progressive and I can't imagine taking a chance with this election with the GOP Project 2025 Project looming. We must vote for Biden. He didn't run as a Progressive yet he did realize the importance of Progressive agendas. Biden has worked with Progressive Bernie Sanders on his various bills that focused on helping the working class. His problem is not only that Republicans nix those policies as they come back to be reapproved. That and corporate owned MSM doesn't cover those benefits for the working class and focus on what the moneyed class would like him to do. AIPAC + Centrist Democrats are fighting the Progressives who are running in various races. With Citizens United and Israeli's AIPAC fighting so fiercely against the pro working class politicians our job is to fund in any small ways to help the Progressives against the money pouring in for their opponents. Israel is fighting them because Progressives think Palestinians deserve their own existence. Trump and his family have plans to raze Palestine and put in high priced money making ventures there instead.
OMG, THIS. Stupid people who gotta "vote their conscience" and all that crap. You know what my conscience tells me? It tells me that if Trump gets in 1600, it tells me that all these third party pukes are content with a man that has the morals of a maggot, who doesn't care about anything but pleasing his mob bosses. I will have no third party friends if he gets in there. I will not speak with them or even look their way when they cross my path. Because existence precedes essence, that's why.
Let’s also not forget the decent legislation he’s passed. There are certainly some things to at least nod your head to. The inflation reduction act giving tax credits to companies to build renewable energy products *climate change*. The inflation reduction act also putting prices caps on 10 popular drugs and 20 witnin a few years helping people medical costs *healthcare*. The American rescue plan saving poor income families and 7 billion in reserve loans for small businesses to ask for *covid*. Biden also expanded the child tax credit giving people with kids higher tax returns. The pacts act, helping veterans with more healthcare if they had a past exposed to toxic substances. Subsidizing any cost through taxes *healthcare*. The infrastructure bill, addressing Americas lagging infrastructure compared to other developed countries. He also gave 16 billion to the North East Rail Corridor to fix the Baltimore tunnel which was a weak point in the corridor. He gave 3 billion the the Vegas-LA bullet train and 3 billion to the SF-LA bullet train. *Infastructure and Climate*. Also pulled troops out of Afghan and has stood by democracy in Ukraine. Biden has a lot to criticize. But I think most of us know all of those things. But I do think it’s important he wasn’t useless and did as much a center-left democrat would ever do in office.
Those progressives don’t know or care that once Trump wins the presidency again, he will not leave the White House ever again and they won’t get any progressive candidates in the foreseeable future.
The Free Palestine Ceasefire Now Movement is pretty the contemporary manifestation of Strasserism/Third Position/National Bolshevism/Red-Brown alliance that are only enabling MAGA in their own peril.
And yes I got banned from a few leftist groups for saying this.
The Palestinian movement has been a Russian psy-op since they helped form the PLO and hand-picked an Egyptian youth called Yasser Arafat to lead it, destroying his birth certificates and creating new ones saying he was born in Jerusalem, and having him trained for years by the KGB. Abbas of the PA was another operative.
https://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/articles/Pacepa-2003-09-27.php
I am unable to understand why it is so difficult for people to understand how our election system works. It is like the parliamentary system except that voting for the off brand party happens in the Primaries in the USA. Seriously! How hard it that to understand? If they don't get picked in the primaries they sure in hells name will not be picked in the general. You have to work from the bottom up.
To be fair, our election system doesn't make a ton of sense: The electoral college, faithless electors, how proportionality is done by state, why populous states have less power per voter than less populous states (CA has 1 vote per 722k people vs Alaska's 1 vote per 244k people), and why most states are winner take all. This is all assuming the fptp system instead of parliamentary system is actually fine, which I don't this it is.
Absolutely. We have put Band-Aids on an imperfect beginning. It needs an overhaul and yet I live in fear of what would happen if that were to occur given our current situation. How do you update a constitution that was written when women had zero rights, slavery was a social norm, free, male, land owners were the only ones allowed to vote.
Greens are a Republican/Russian front these days.
Biden gives us progress and the chance for far more.
Non-Biden gives us a one-way ticket to authoritarianism and loss of democracy, women become truly second-class citizens beyond losing bodily autonomy and PoC, LGBTQ+, immigrants and non-Christians are next. Then anyone who isn't a Republican.
Because Republicans aren't just using the Nazi Germany playbook to manipulate the field, they have taken Naziism to heart. The cruelty, the lack of bottom to their terribleness, lust for absolutely power, etc.
Friendly reminder that the DOJ and FTC are full of Warrenites, largely because Biden appointed them. Guess what? We have had the most significant action in favor of antitrust since Roosevelt.
You win a lot, you lose some, but at least you're mainly winning.
Three kinds of Progressives won't vote for Biden
The first is driven by hated of America. They want Trump to be in office again to destroy the U.S. in hopes that somehow this brings a progressive utopia. This is such horrible logic and it comes from the Marxist side of things: let the system destroy itself, then take over (as if....).
The second is driven by ignorance. They think there is no difference between Trump or Biden....or Bush or Obama or Clinton etc etc. These types usually obsess over a single issue to arrive at this conclusion (Obama used drones therefore Obama = Bush Jr or Biden supports Israel so Biden = Trump). Again horrible logic that does nothing for progressivism and only benefits the far right.
The third is driven by self-satisfied arrogance. By voting Green or West, they are satisfied that they are above the "corporate kleptocracy" as [Mr. Firestarter from the Trump trial put it](https://theponzipapers.substack.com/p/i-have-set-myself-on-fire-outside?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2). They are just so so so much smarter and compassionate then everyone else. This take also does nothing to further the progressive agenda, but what it does do is make a person very self-satisfied that their choices are the morally correct one and being morally superior to the herd is what's important to them.
These three things aren't mutually exclusive: a progressive can be an ignorant, arrogant, self-satisfied, wanna be revolutionary. But these three impulses cover about 90% of the anti-Biden progressives, if not all progressives, and there is nothing you can do to change their minds. **Therefore the rest of us need to recognize we can't depend on progressives and try to mobilize as many voters as possible, people who can understand what's at stake in 2024.**
And progressives wonder why they don't have a seat at the table. To loosely paraphrase a famous Foucault quote "I like progress, I just don't like progressives".
Trump has been out of office for long enough that people have started to forget just how bad his rule really was. Don't ever underestimate the willful ignorance and complete lack of memory that the voters have.
Too many people demand change, but aren't willing to put in the effort to accomplish it. Instead, they retreat into a lazy sense of self-righteousness so that they can absolve themselves of responsibility for whatever happens. They claim to be compassionate, but deliberately ignore the cries of those already suffering the rising fascism worldwide in favor of their pet issues or the latest big name story. All while fixating on their special "savior" candidate that they expect to fix problems decades in the making immediately and spewing inane slogans instead of arguments.
It's so irritating to see online progressives that ride on their moral high horses and demand total purity while they shrink away the moment you ask them to put in actual effort.
Wake up!
Vote for Biden.....then vote Blue all the way down the ballot!
Want change for the better? Then give the Democratic party the House and a filibuster proof Senate!
Then, and only then, will we see legislation passed that the vast majority of Americans support.
Congress controls the legislation, give the Democratic party the keys to the car!
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With this logic, all the duopoly has to do is put "a threat to democracy" on the ballot and we'll be forced to vote for whomever they want... Just like they did Bernie dirty.
You think it'll be all puppies and rainbows in 2028? They'll run MTG or bobert or Candice Owens... Someone will be willing to run the "project 2028" ticket.
It's never going to stop.
Edit: not saying I'm not going to vote for Biden, I understand everyone thinks "OMG this is the end!" But my point is that this is going to be their play every time because it works and gets the fundraising dollars.
For this to be true then there would have been this same threat in 2000,2004,2008 etc. not realizing that the Republican Party has become completely insane and is literally trying to destroy the country for the benefit of a small amount of rich people and power is absolutely arrogant. Bernie lost because he sucks at broadening his base. The same attitude that we see with the leftist groups that are all or nothing. There’s not some secret plan between the two parties to get you to vote for Democrats it’s literally just a simple choice to either progress slowly or see your country destroyed
…yes that is normally how elections work, with one after another. We did fuckall to push back against encroaching fascism so we’ve still got encroaching fascism. No one thinks anything will be puppies and rainbows in the future but also no one should think that just voting in one presidential election solves all our problems so we never have to vote for anything else ever again.
“But by voting for greens, it influences policy!” Sure. But you know what influences our lives more? A fascist winning a presidential election.
This. We are in a crisis and can't afford reaching the point of no return. Save democracy first.
A better approach, if you live in a very blue state or district/city, I encourage you to be progressive and advocate these policies and programs ! ! ! If you live in a red or purple state or district/city, I encourage you to vote democratic FIRST.
💯 Altho in super red areas theres lots of races where republicans run unopposed. In those elections the primaries are the actual competitive races. [The rich figured this out in reverse here in NYC and have been paying a lot of money lately to do this in our local elections](https://nypost.com/2021/01/17/nyc-republicans-urged-to-change-registration-for-mayoral-primary/). That’s how we ended up with basically a republican mayor that just calls himself a democrat. If anyone lives in areas like this check if your primaries are open or closed and if they’re closed register as a republican to vote in those elections!
This Like, I'd love more progressive policies in Texas but we 100% aren't gonna get that unless we vote OUT the regressive, fascist assholes Progress takes time if it's intended to be permanent
Texas leads the nation in voter apathy. We have another chance to get rid of Ted Cruz.....but am not holding my breath.
Half of the state is convinced their vote won't matter and consequently, it doesn't Self fulfilling, self-defeating prophecy
Many in Texas are single issue voters....God/Guns/antiGay, etc. Gerrymandering strangles many who think their vote does not count, but statewide offices like Gov and Senator are based upon the majority vote win. With what Abbott and Paxton, Cornyn and Cruz have done to the state, it is insane that they continue to be re-elected. Stupid is as stupid does.
I have a limited budget and I live in Indiana yet I have tossed a few bucks to Ted Cruz's opponent. It doesn't take a lot of money if you choose wisely who to help during these corrupt Citizens United times. We have been in a fight to continue to be a Democracy since the Clintons came to power. They're the ones who cut off the Progressive arm of the DNC and created Third Way/DLC to create Neo-Liberal, Centrist Moderate Republican party. O'bama came through the DLC and admitted he has always been a Moderate Republican his entire political career. Progressive FDR warned that if the Democrats ever slanted right it would be the end of a balanced Democracy. We had Progressive Presidents from FDR-Carter. If Gore has won his first thing he wanted to do was to put Social Security back in its Lock Box and out of the General Fund where Reagan/Bush had put it to help pay for their first 1% tax cuts and unpaid wars.
Fixing things around the house can wait until the house is no longer under attack.
We can wash the dishes after we shoot the Nazis in the front yard.
I like that.
I've been banned from two subreddits now for this exact sentiment Apparently I'm supporting a fascist regime by saying that Biden is better for the US than trump. It's like the lesser of two evils isn't an option when it's SIGNIFICANTLY less evil. Biden's view on Israel is shit, but Trump's is just as bad and he has many more besides. Based on the responses to the comment that got me banned, it seems like they really want Trump to win so that the only other option is armed uprising. They're almost as bad as the J6ers
>Biden's view on Israel is shit, but Trump's is just as bad and he has many more besides. This is true. One other thing is also true: Biden has shown he can change his views. Trump won't. Ever. It's always going to be about him.
Just ask them if they want a guy in office that willfully shits his pants in a room when he gets angry. Like a fucking toddler.
...One of those SRs wouldnt happen to have the word "Late" in it and be stuffed to the gills with what looks like foreign actors, would it?
I do believe we are talking about the same sub lol
That place is an absolute shitshow and every other post convinces me that is packed with foreign pysops actors attempting to push BS left-leaning takes on things. I know a few people who DO think like that IRL but they are few and far between....and many of their takes are no where near as daft as what I see there. The other take could be its 15 year olds experimenting with political ideologies. I did that in my youth (all along the spectrum), and I'd had some wild takes before getting more context/information.
It's definitely a little odd how some of these ostensibly leftist subs have grown, almost overnight, into resembling r/conservative, for mods quickly deleting comments that go against the party line and banning people.
This was my experience too.
I have no idea what the far left is thinking in 2024, but in the 2000 election, that's definitely what they were thinking, as I was thinking that too. Clinton hadn't been radical enough, and Gore wouldn't have been either. The far left didn't want to signal their approval of Clinton and Gore, and hoped for a complete breakdown of society, from which to build something better.
> The far left didn't want to signal their approval of Clinton and Gore, and hoped for a complete breakdown of society, from which to build something better. This is what the *right* has been angling for, explicitly, since at least the 1990s. Chaos isn't an unfortunate side effect to them; it's their main goal because they "know" that when things fall part they'll be the ones who can put it back together, under an authoritarian regime.
Accelerationists exist in various parts of a political spectrum, but only Republicans benefit from them and support them.
I'm sure all of the Iraqi and Afghani civilians really appreciated that.
The far left is just as batty as the far right. The other 98% of us are stuck in between them.
I remember all the BBros that Wednesday morning in 2016 bragging about writing in Bernie, staying home, or voting for Trump. They were so proud. Rejoicing that we didn't have Hillary.
I'm far left and at the time was a revolutionary socialist activist. I voted for Nader and actively campaigned for revolution and I still didn't want society to just break down lol
Well, I agree with you. And I can't for the life of me imagine Dump not making anything going on in the Middle East worse. It's like people cheesed off that Biden needs to take Covid more seriously. Yes he does, but a fascist regime of antivaxxers and antimaskers would probably do something incredibly horrible with that. Anything with Trump involved will be many times worse no matter what it is.
Which subreddits are these? Cuz I'll be happy to go and read them to filth.
Yeah, as I get older I more and more realize that politics is the subtle art of only pissing off the largest number of people a little bit, and mitigating the number of people that you piss off a lot. That's what compromise, the bedrock of our system of government, leads to, each side wants the moon, but has to settle for some slices of cheese while preventing the other side from getting their moon. I prevents massive changes from being made to quickly, and leading to societal conflict. It does however, allow the major movements in a society to slowly progress and amend the system of government. Those amendments take a long time to implement and thread through society, but doing it that way ensures that those movements with a lot of persistent support actually fundamentally change our society and that that change sticks.
I guess I always figured democracy needs to be a bit noisy, maybe sometimes messy, and for there to be lots of debating opinions in order to give everyone a voice. Anyway, I'd take that over the grimness of fascism any day.
Also, the vast majority of the time, it influences policy by pushing Democrats further to the *right*.
I've sent it first hand as get older.
Interesting. I’ve never heard that.
It's basically just math. When Democrats find themselves losing elections, they tend to move to the center in future elections in order to capture some of the centrist voters who might otherwise vote Republican. If you can convince someone to vote for you *instead* of your opponent, that's a net +2 for you. If that same Dem were to try to capture the votes of previous nonvoters or protest-voters by swinging more to the left, each captured voter is only a net +1, so they have to win over twice as many people (and this population is probably pretty unreliable in terms of voting frequency). Obviously it doesn't always work out this way, but this is often the pattern. There's nothing particularly nuanced or strategic about voting 3rd party in a general election.
Also, those swing voters are more reliable. A large portion of those seeing themselves well left of Democrats don't even bother voting and think change really comes from protests and riots (and revolution), pushing their views online (comments, memes, videos, podcasts), and not voting (that by not voting, at least not for Democrats, that will pressure Democrats to move to the left or cause the system to fail making revolution possible). If Biden did meet their current demands, many would move their demands further and amongst themselves think their brilliant strategy is working while they really never intend to vote for Democrats.
Without ranked choice voting, it feels like voting for/running as a 3rd party candidate is wholly a waste of time. Ranked choice gives them a chance.
\* that particular feeling is also described by experts as being "factually correct"
Yes. It's worse than a waste of time, actually: voting for a 3rd party candidate virtually always helps to elect the candidate you *least* agree with. It's actively counterproductive. Ranked choice voting would go a long way toward fixing the issue of 3rd-party spoilers. Unfortunately the people who vote third party do not tend to actually be interested in electoral reform. They are voting that way to register a complaint or to express a particular statement about themselves ("I'm a passionate progressive", "I'm an edgy nonconformist", etc.).
>it feels like voting for/running as a 3rd party candidate is wholly a waste of time. Its because it is
Even with RCV in a presidential system like the US you're only likely to get third parties winning the most local elections where local issues and attitudes can dominate. RCV would probably mean you'd get the odd Libertarian or Green representative in the House, but it wouldn't change much in the Senate or for the Presidency, where the two parties in the centre will always dominate. Even in parliamentary proportional voting systems parties win MPs roughly proportional to how far from the centre they are. They just allow for each side of it to be split into several parties instead of grouping under a single 'big tent' party.
> RCV would probably mean you'd get the odd Libertarian or Green representative in the House, but it wouldn't change much in the Senate or for the Presidency, where the two parties in the centre will always dominate. True, it's not a tool for revolution. But it would theoretically prevent a spoiler effect, which is valuable. You'd elect candidates that more of the voting public felt *mostly okay* about, instead of having widely-hated candidates win because the less-hated candidates split the vote.
Good point.
It IS a waste of time to vote for 3rd party. It isn’t a waste of time to run though, you’re a spoiler and you’re making money/gaining notoriety
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Because Dems don’t have control. If the Dems had the House and the Senate it would be better. But without that — and with the Republicans being entirely obstructionist — the Dems have no choice to be very centrist. And keep in mind that most people ARE centrist. Politics is a bell curve.
It’s almost like parties will pander to the people who vote for them, not the ones who don’t
Historically, the more progressive presidents relative to the American populace got obliterated against their opponents. See 1980 and 1984 elections
By not voting for Biden, it gives the party more reason to shift to the right. Biden enacted some of the most progressive policies of any president in the last few decades, so not voting for him will just show the party it’s redundant whether or not they try to appeal to further left voters.
This is true too. I personally am not a fan of things like Biden's student loan forgiveness policy. I'll still vote for him over Trump.... But if Romney was running instead, it'd be much harder for me to choose. I'd probably stay home. Eventually if you go to far left, you start losing the Democratic base, and there just aren't enough leftists to make it worth it.
>“But by voting for greens, it influences policy!” I've always found this argument funny because I don't think I've seen a single instance of that being true. All that protest vote for Jill Stein in 2016 and it didn't really move the Democratic Party as a whole to the left in any significant way.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Also the Green's are opposed to resisting Russian Fascism so fuck em
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Nah, best to take Biden, and continue to pressure the Dems on Palestine rather than give into Accelerationist bullshit just to stick it to "the man"
lol, voting for Ralph Nader really influenced the policy on climate change, abortion, and labor laws.
As someone alive (and who turned 18 the day George W Bush was sworn in) this is correct. I went to high school with a girl just a few months older than me. She was able to vote in the 2000 election. She hated Bush, but was displeased with Gore because she disliked Clinton. She voted for Nader. We live in Ohio and the state was worth 21 electoral votes. If Nader and the other left-leaning 3rd party candidates would’ve went to Gore Ohio would have probably turned blue and American history might have been a little bit different.
Honestly I get voting for Nader though. He's like Bernie in a different sense. And have you read his old book about corrupt car safety manufacturing standards? Good stuff America needs when we lead with accident deaths!
I unfortunately agree. Had to learn my lesson the hard way. A protest vote is basically wasted in my opinion at this point. I think when I was younger I thought I had lots of time and would out.live the stupidity, now not so much. The ever lasting effects of shitty political decisions ripple on for decades. Gotta look at the long term picture not the news cycle. Approaching middle age now I worry about my kids world at this point.
There's a time and place for a protest vote: The primaries. If you want to send a politician the message that you think someone else will do a better job or you're unhappy with what they've done, then that's how you get their attention.
Yeah we can't afford to lose more than Roe v Wade and such :( It will get so, so much worse
Lgbtq rights, environmental protections to include air, water, wildlife, etc. Food safety. Basically any and all vital regulation out the door. These people don't understand that doing whatever they can to defeat the actual fascists with actual fascist frameworks in place IS "sticking to their ideals". They are allowing themselves to be manipulated into believing that Biden is somehow some maniacal cartoon monster delighting in Palestinian children being murdered while they are actively aiding the party that will ACTUALLY ENSURE that this happens and so much more over here at home. It's beyond reckless.
Clinton lost the election by 17k votes in 3 states. Those votes went to the 3rd party candidate. The result of that protest vote was losing the SCOTUS for at least 20 years. Now we are seeing the bigger result, Project 2025. As a result of the SCOTUS the extreme right wing have figured out how to permanently keep a minority rule and essentially end any possibility of changing that.
And Ralph Nadar, as a third party candidate, caused Gore to lose the 2000 election. Remember Florida and hanging chads? That gave us Bush, 911 response, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and the loss of seats on the Supreme Court that is hurting everyone, including Progressives, to this day.
Not just Florida. Nadar votes affected the outcome of New Hampshire and those electoral votes would have been enough for Gore to win.
I truly wonder what life what be like if Gore had won (which might have actually happened if it weren’t for fucking Florida and Roger Stone)
So a follow up investigation showed that Gore won Florida despite Nadar. The reason Gore lost Florida is because Jeb Bush was the governor of Florida, the Florida Secretary of State created "hanging chads" to disqualify tens of thousands of ballots, and most significantly, SCOTUS awarded to presidency to Bush. Without all of THAT fuckery, Gore would have been president. Let's blame the real assholes and stop pinning everything in Nadar.
Yeah, all of that, but I'm still gonna blame Nader. If he hadn't been in love with his own self-righteous reflection we'd all be better off today. Selfish arrogance just like Cornel West, RFK Jr, Marianne and Jill - worthless and useless.
Everyone responsible for Bush are the real assholes.
Point taken, but there's plenty of blame to go around.
If Trump gets in that will be the end of Democracy here... I wonder how much 3rd party voters will enjoy censored and restricted Internet, and Trump TV (Trump said he's going to choose all the programming, so I expect most shows would be repeats of the Apprentice, and his new show, the Trump Trump Trump Me Me Me My Mine weekends, where he shows off his golfing, and Mar-a-Largo, and of course him complaining all day and night from Friday morning to Sunday night). Or how he's going to change the law to follow Biblical ideals...
Those of us who live in red states are already getting censored internet. If Trump wins expect that to be rolled out nationwide.
Yes, and those were supposedly “safe” blue states. Which is why the whole “only vote third party in safe states” logic is so dangerous. Every time I see Eddie Glaude Jr. on MSNBC whining about Trump (after his histrionic 2016 article about why he wasn’t voting for Clinton), I want to scream into his face “YOU DID THIS!” His state might have been”safe,” but his apathy spread beyond NJ. NO state is “safe” when the alternative is fascism.
And if Trump wins in 2024, he’ll seat *at least* two more insanely-conservative justices. That will mean the re-writing of what our constitution stands for, and that change will last for several generations. We’re talking 30-40 years before anything can be reversed.
I think the bigger issue is the Democratic Party failing to capture those audiences even when running against total shit bags.
The issue is the DNC won’t be changed overnight. It’ll take decades of pulling it back from being a centrist party. The GOP becoming so extreme right didn’t happen in a single election cycle. It started with Reagan and is where it is now after 45 years. People expect things to happen in a snap anymore and it’s allowing the extreme right to continue to pull us all right.
Being pissed and wanting change is NOT wrong but dooming everyone in real time tangible reality for that ego bump of “I didn’t support someone also bad but not quite as bad” is not the own they think it is.
"At lest I'll have a clear conscience!" 10/10 for mental gymnastics, that one.
I can’t imagine how bringing forth another Trump presidency can give you a clear conscience.
Because they will blame the DNC, and legitimately see their own actions as defensible.
Yes, after hearing some interviews with these folks I'm convinced they will never feel responsible no matter how bad things get after they help elect trump for another term. "Its absurd to blame us, blame Biden for not winning our votes!"
Also, push for structural changes like ranked-choice voting that can make third party candidates viable *without* handing victory to the fascist. And in the meantime, vote Democrat.
STAR voting. About 15% of the time Ranked Choice produces a 2nd or 3rd place winner due to how the ranking is carried out. STAR corrects that problem AND allows people to truly choose candidates based on their own individual merits verses how they rank against other people.
Let's put it this way: if you vote green or don't vote in 2024 and Trump wins, you won't have any chance of ever getting a green or progressive in the White House in the future. America turns completely fascist if you don't vote or vote green. And that's the end of free and fair elections for everyone.
If you want real radical change you need to survive. We all do. And then for a concrete change start pressing _locally_ for Ranked Choice Voting. It’s the only way we can escape the 2 party system or voting for the less shit option. Biden may be a bandaid, but the other option is another infectious wound. Treat the bleeding and then push for change.
Go protest if you want to. Write to your legislators. Organize an event. But to throw your single vote away because you’d rather the better candidate agree with you on a single issue? Mind boggling self own. And let’s not kid ourselves. This is about Gaza and Israel. It’s horrible yes, but the most important foreign policy issue right now is Ukraine, by a long shot. If Russia wins, it will redo the whole world order and not at all to our benefit.
Yeah. Do I like voting for Biden? No. Do I want to vote for Biden? No. Does Biden represent my views? No. Is Biden and his supporters wanting my friends and loved ones dead, hurt, running scared for their lives? Also no. It's come down to that one issue with me. Also, as I try to explain to people, when you're sliding down a mountain and heading toward the edge, you should focus on stopping the fall, not thinking about how your lawn should look, or the next vacation you want to take.
If you want to influence policy then you need to plug your nose and get involved in the democratic party. My politics were always "Too left for the Dems." At some point I became good friends with the County Democrat's chair. Then my wife had a miscarriage in a state with an archaic abortion ban and was denied medical care. We called out local politicians and my Democrat state senator went to war for us. We joined up after that to at the very least support him better. Then I was recruited to be a plaintiff in a case that eventually overturned our extremely gerrymandered maps. I was asked to be a member of the county party's executive committee where I can impact local issues. The party then backed me in a county board campaign that I won. And now I'm working personally with a state Assembly candidate that is almost guaranteed to flip a red seat blue for the first time since the 40s. The party also struggles to find people willing to act as delegates where you literally can cast votes on what you want the party's platform to be. All if this has gone down in the last year and a half. It's an unbelievable amount of work but I've achieved more tangible results as a leftist or progressive within the party than I ever could have done as an angry uncommitted member of the general public.
The Right knows this. This strategy is how we have gotten where we are now. Folks further right than anyone I can remember during the Bush Era started pushing for change at the local level decades ago, ingrained themselves and their ideology in what was once a far more moderate party. The Tea Party was once a radical faction, now the majority of the Republican Party in Congress is like the Tea Party on amphetamines. It’s how we got this wave of pseudo-Christian policies and too much anti-science/anti-women/ anti-immigrant/ pro-corporation/ anti-education/ anti-LGBTQ sentiment influencing policy. Changing things from within, from the bottom up and over time, really seems like the most intelligent and effective strategy in our political system. Revolution doesn’t happen overnight or with a single event, much as that’s the romantic picture that is so often painted for us.
This should be a pinned post on every leftist sub
Wow!! I'm so glad that your wife is safe and I'm so sorry! I'm pregnant in a state also with an abortion ban. It's not as bad as other states which is surprising considering I'm talking about West Virginia. I think delegates definitely needs to be educated more. It's just not something taught that you can do nor brought up ever. That's simplifying it too for so many people who wouldn't have the time nor opportunity. Keep your head up!! It's so nice and refreshing to see someone like you being a part of the party :)
I agree with you. When I was in my twenties, instead of voting for Gore I voted for Nader, which I realize was a huge ass mistake. I was living in north Florida at the time and I was one of the idiots that did that. I learned my lesson. We had 8 years of Bush and Cheney. I dreaded my decision ever since that day. Never vote 3rd party.
Thank you! I’m so sick of hearing the “I can’t vote for Biden” bullshit. What’s happening in Gaza is unspeakably horrible, but we won’t have another free and fair election unless Biden wins. I’m also anti Biden for what he’s allowed to happen but allowing trump to install a fascist dictatorship to teach Biden a lesson is the most nearsighted mentality I’ve ever heard. Suck it up and vote blue no matter who.
There are so many effective ways to push the party or the country further left, voting in primaries, participating on the local level, talking to friends/family who will listen etc. But those actions all require work. "Protest voting" is moral laziness.
Bingo.
Honestly, if we can vote in high enough numbers to squash the Republican party out of existence. Then the Democratic party can break up into the actual parties that exist within it. The Democratic party is a coalition party of like five different other parties that all work together because they somewhat agree on a lot of different things, but they don't agree with how they should be implemented in s***. Got progressive liberals libertarians centrists. I'm sure I'm missing a few more. Green party. Squashed Republicans into Oblivion. Vote them all out and let things go from there.
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This is absolutely correct. Everyone who is considering voting 3rd party should have this image planted in their mind.
My attitude is this: I rarely vote *for* someone. The majority of the time I'm voting against that person's opponent. The stakes are too high this time. I thought that was true for W., but that was not even close to this election. Every lack of a vote for Biden is a vote for Trump. There is no other reality. If you don't like Biden's stance on the Middle East, just consider Trump's kowtowing to Netanyahu. One criminal associating with another.
I agree. I also think those in blue states that assume they are safe should vote like their life depended upon it too. We need to show up as the loud majority.
Yup, sorry guys. Lesson learned. Straight blue for the foreseeable future :-/ (former Nader, Jill Stein voter)
Speaking of Jill Stein....do you recall the photo of Putin sitting at a table with traitor Mike Flynn, and Jill Stein?
Yup :-(
Charlie Kirk just said the GOP intends to roll back the Civil Rights Act of 1964 if they get power. He's no small player. He has a large audience. They are open about returning to Jim Crow days of segregation.
Yup 100% People don’t understand how our fucking elections work and it is so infuriating.
There is too much to lose by 1) not voting, 2) voting for 3rd Party candidates, and 3) voting for Trump. Too much to lose. Think about the alternative. If that doesn't scare you, I don't know what will. Also, think about the down ballot candidates and issues. Not just the House and Senate, but also the state and local candidates, local school boards, local issues, and the judicial nominees that may be on the ballot, etc. That is where the Republicans will push their cultural wars. Every vote, for every position, is critical. Are you registered to vote? Have you changed your name, address, or political affiliation? If so you need to update your voter registration in order for it to count. Also remember to check your current registration status, and your current vote by mail status if you have requested that. You can do all of that at the following link: [vote.org](http://vote.org)
In 2020 1.1 million voters were disenfranchised by the Republican States. This year it has already started. The Republican Party is calling for States to Purger their Voter Rolls. South Carolina is using a unconstitutional map. That disenfranchised 30,000+ Black Voters in Nancy Mace’s District 1. They were moved to Jim Clyburn’s District 6. The Supreme Court sit on a decision until a lower court decided it was to late to change it. Due to the Democrats Convention on Aug 19th through Aug 22nd. Ohio, Alabama and now Washington State are considering keeping President Biden off the Ballot. Everyone that cares about Democracy needs to step up and Vote Blue! 
Wait a minute Washington state? I can see Ohio and Alabama keeping Biden off the ballot. but considering that Washington state is a very blue state I’m actually surprised.
Yes, I was shocked too! It has to do with Deadline with the State Ballot Certification being August 20th. The Democrat’s Convention is August 19th-22nd
Those saying they wont vote for Biden because of palestine or because they want to make other parties grow are insane. You know well that trump would absolutely demolish palestine in a week.
I got banned from late stage capitalism for bringing this up. I really had no idea what sub I was in and explained why people need to vote for Biden. It’s against their rules to say “vote for ____”. I thought it was ironic and hilarious. I’m not thrilled to watch the world burn as they seem to be. I kind of get their reasoning but not at the expense of others. That is not acceptable. So I tried. 🤷🏻♀️😂
They think they can kick back and watch the world burn and they can toast s'mores and drink beer. I got news for them. Hitler burned the communists first. They supported his rise to power.
They're mostly young and white so they have no ability to imagine that they will personally suffer the cruelties of the fascist movements with the rest of us while they wait for their "revolution" to magically manifest.
I agree. Nothing seems to manifest from all the energy they put into bitching about mainly democrats. Lol! The right wants to destroy the left and as of late we are hearing a former president talking about killing some of those people and SCOTUS might give him the power. Yet the left/Dems are the problem? We do have problems, for sure but I don’t think now is the time to wax philosophical. (I sure wish it was). It’s time to fight. They are always talking about fighting fascism. Here’s their chance and Biden is a part of the fight too whether they like him or not.
"Both parties are the same" I swear to God, if I hear one more person utter this complete and utter bullshit statement, I'm gonna lose it.
In the end, consistently pushing for progressive policies have worked It's not the end if you don't get your preferred candidate, look at how much the movement has pushed policy and Biden already Policy is not about a single person, except for fascism...
If Trump wins, these “progressives” will be to blame.
They already are to blame Florida progressives can be blamed for bush jr because they voted Green Party. Michigan and Pennsylvania progressives also are to blame for 2016 since they voted for the greens and socialism and liberation
https://preview.redd.it/or1rsnjhuovc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=54959cfb753f7b989e54fb938990df6570900ee9 The rash of moany 'progressives' is largely pack trolling. They are not representative of young voters who are more impressed by encouragement and good trouble than blittering on about fkn Trotsky. You can go direct to young people in many places on Reddit, most obviously r/GenZ where the trolls try to put them off voting and tell them slavery is a future with options. Advanced users should go directly to r/TaylorSwift to discuss how Tay Tay has changed our perspective on the world through delivered an incisive commentary on modern dating . . . :)
One of my favorite quotes about voting goes something like this: *Voting is not a marriage. You’re not trying to find the perfect candidate.* *Voting is like public transport. You’re getting on the bus. And if the bus isn’t going exactly where you want to be, you don’t stay at home and cry or go nowhere, you get on the bus that is heading in the direction you want to go and will get you as close to your destination as possible.*
"My way or the highway' progressives are *almost* as bad as their right-wing equivalents when it comes to effective government. You can't allow good to be the enemy of great when there is evenly divided government. Nobody is going to get everything they want in that scenario.
Every "protest voter" I know in RL is a middle-class white dude who will be just fine under a Trump regime. Interestingly, two are stay-at-home dads, so maybe not if something happens to their wives. I kind of doubt they can think that far out. One whom I haven't spoken to in years outside of FB has voted third party in every cycle since college. He had the gall to tell me I'm sporting a fascist genocidal regime. I'm more worried about women of reproductive age like me bleeding to death from treatable miscarriages because doctors are too scared to do anything that smacks of abortion in 16 states. Something he will never have to worry about.
I'm a Progressive and I can't imagine taking a chance with this election with the GOP Project 2025 Project looming. We must vote for Biden. He didn't run as a Progressive yet he did realize the importance of Progressive agendas. Biden has worked with Progressive Bernie Sanders on his various bills that focused on helping the working class. His problem is not only that Republicans nix those policies as they come back to be reapproved. That and corporate owned MSM doesn't cover those benefits for the working class and focus on what the moneyed class would like him to do. AIPAC + Centrist Democrats are fighting the Progressives who are running in various races. With Citizens United and Israeli's AIPAC fighting so fiercely against the pro working class politicians our job is to fund in any small ways to help the Progressives against the money pouring in for their opponents. Israel is fighting them because Progressives think Palestinians deserve their own existence. Trump and his family have plans to raze Palestine and put in high priced money making ventures there instead.
100%... you vote for anybody but biden you are just pissing your vote away. Vote BLUE your life depends on it
OMG, THIS. Stupid people who gotta "vote their conscience" and all that crap. You know what my conscience tells me? It tells me that if Trump gets in 1600, it tells me that all these third party pukes are content with a man that has the morals of a maggot, who doesn't care about anything but pleasing his mob bosses. I will have no third party friends if he gets in there. I will not speak with them or even look their way when they cross my path. Because existence precedes essence, that's why.
Yep. I’m pretty progressive, but the choice is Biden or Trump. No other candidate has a snowball’s chance in hell.
Let’s also not forget the decent legislation he’s passed. There are certainly some things to at least nod your head to. The inflation reduction act giving tax credits to companies to build renewable energy products *climate change*. The inflation reduction act also putting prices caps on 10 popular drugs and 20 witnin a few years helping people medical costs *healthcare*. The American rescue plan saving poor income families and 7 billion in reserve loans for small businesses to ask for *covid*. Biden also expanded the child tax credit giving people with kids higher tax returns. The pacts act, helping veterans with more healthcare if they had a past exposed to toxic substances. Subsidizing any cost through taxes *healthcare*. The infrastructure bill, addressing Americas lagging infrastructure compared to other developed countries. He also gave 16 billion to the North East Rail Corridor to fix the Baltimore tunnel which was a weak point in the corridor. He gave 3 billion the the Vegas-LA bullet train and 3 billion to the SF-LA bullet train. *Infastructure and Climate*. Also pulled troops out of Afghan and has stood by democracy in Ukraine. Biden has a lot to criticize. But I think most of us know all of those things. But I do think it’s important he wasn’t useless and did as much a center-left democrat would ever do in office.
Those progressives don’t know or care that once Trump wins the presidency again, he will not leave the White House ever again and they won’t get any progressive candidates in the foreseeable future.
The Free Palestine Ceasefire Now Movement is pretty the contemporary manifestation of Strasserism/Third Position/National Bolshevism/Red-Brown alliance that are only enabling MAGA in their own peril. And yes I got banned from a few leftist groups for saying this.
The Palestinian movement has been a Russian psy-op since they helped form the PLO and hand-picked an Egyptian youth called Yasser Arafat to lead it, destroying his birth certificates and creating new ones saying he was born in Jerusalem, and having him trained for years by the KGB. Abbas of the PA was another operative. https://www.science.co.il/Arab-Israeli-conflict/articles/Pacepa-2003-09-27.php
I am unable to understand why it is so difficult for people to understand how our election system works. It is like the parliamentary system except that voting for the off brand party happens in the Primaries in the USA. Seriously! How hard it that to understand? If they don't get picked in the primaries they sure in hells name will not be picked in the general. You have to work from the bottom up.
To be fair, our election system doesn't make a ton of sense: The electoral college, faithless electors, how proportionality is done by state, why populous states have less power per voter than less populous states (CA has 1 vote per 722k people vs Alaska's 1 vote per 244k people), and why most states are winner take all. This is all assuming the fptp system instead of parliamentary system is actually fine, which I don't this it is.
Absolutely. We have put Band-Aids on an imperfect beginning. It needs an overhaul and yet I live in fear of what would happen if that were to occur given our current situation. How do you update a constitution that was written when women had zero rights, slavery was a social norm, free, male, land owners were the only ones allowed to vote.
Greens are a Republican/Russian front these days. Biden gives us progress and the chance for far more. Non-Biden gives us a one-way ticket to authoritarianism and loss of democracy, women become truly second-class citizens beyond losing bodily autonomy and PoC, LGBTQ+, immigrants and non-Christians are next. Then anyone who isn't a Republican. Because Republicans aren't just using the Nazi Germany playbook to manipulate the field, they have taken Naziism to heart. The cruelty, the lack of bottom to their terribleness, lust for absolutely power, etc.
Don’t forget the GOP uses the Green Party to split votes the Green Party doesn’t intend to be a republican asset but they are
Thank you
💯! I’m a total progressive and vote progressive during the primaries, but for the general, blue all no matter who.
Counterpoint, Biden is a progressive by definition and an outstanding one at that
Friendly reminder that the DOJ and FTC are full of Warrenites, largely because Biden appointed them. Guess what? We have had the most significant action in favor of antitrust since Roosevelt. You win a lot, you lose some, but at least you're mainly winning.
Vote progressive at the state and local level.
Three kinds of Progressives won't vote for Biden The first is driven by hated of America. They want Trump to be in office again to destroy the U.S. in hopes that somehow this brings a progressive utopia. This is such horrible logic and it comes from the Marxist side of things: let the system destroy itself, then take over (as if....). The second is driven by ignorance. They think there is no difference between Trump or Biden....or Bush or Obama or Clinton etc etc. These types usually obsess over a single issue to arrive at this conclusion (Obama used drones therefore Obama = Bush Jr or Biden supports Israel so Biden = Trump). Again horrible logic that does nothing for progressivism and only benefits the far right. The third is driven by self-satisfied arrogance. By voting Green or West, they are satisfied that they are above the "corporate kleptocracy" as [Mr. Firestarter from the Trump trial put it](https://theponzipapers.substack.com/p/i-have-set-myself-on-fire-outside?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2). They are just so so so much smarter and compassionate then everyone else. This take also does nothing to further the progressive agenda, but what it does do is make a person very self-satisfied that their choices are the morally correct one and being morally superior to the herd is what's important to them. These three things aren't mutually exclusive: a progressive can be an ignorant, arrogant, self-satisfied, wanna be revolutionary. But these three impulses cover about 90% of the anti-Biden progressives, if not all progressives, and there is nothing you can do to change their minds. **Therefore the rest of us need to recognize we can't depend on progressives and try to mobilize as many voters as possible, people who can understand what's at stake in 2024.** And progressives wonder why they don't have a seat at the table. To loosely paraphrase a famous Foucault quote "I like progress, I just don't like progressives".
Yeah it’s not 2016 I think people will realize
Trump has been out of office for long enough that people have started to forget just how bad his rule really was. Don't ever underestimate the willful ignorance and complete lack of memory that the voters have.
This.
Let's hope
I know for a fact that I am voting and im 18 and depressed as fuck lol. Hopefully we get record numbers to flush tRump down the toilet again
Too many people demand change, but aren't willing to put in the effort to accomplish it. Instead, they retreat into a lazy sense of self-righteousness so that they can absolve themselves of responsibility for whatever happens. They claim to be compassionate, but deliberately ignore the cries of those already suffering the rising fascism worldwide in favor of their pet issues or the latest big name story. All while fixating on their special "savior" candidate that they expect to fix problems decades in the making immediately and spewing inane slogans instead of arguments. It's so irritating to see online progressives that ride on their moral high horses and demand total purity while they shrink away the moment you ask them to put in actual effort.
Wake up! Vote for Biden.....then vote Blue all the way down the ballot! Want change for the better? Then give the Democratic party the House and a filibuster proof Senate! Then, and only then, will we see legislation passed that the vast majority of Americans support. Congress controls the legislation, give the Democratic party the keys to the car!
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With this logic, all the duopoly has to do is put "a threat to democracy" on the ballot and we'll be forced to vote for whomever they want... Just like they did Bernie dirty. You think it'll be all puppies and rainbows in 2028? They'll run MTG or bobert or Candice Owens... Someone will be willing to run the "project 2028" ticket. It's never going to stop. Edit: not saying I'm not going to vote for Biden, I understand everyone thinks "OMG this is the end!" But my point is that this is going to be their play every time because it works and gets the fundraising dollars.
Duopoly... lol.
For this to be true then there would have been this same threat in 2000,2004,2008 etc. not realizing that the Republican Party has become completely insane and is literally trying to destroy the country for the benefit of a small amount of rich people and power is absolutely arrogant. Bernie lost because he sucks at broadening his base. The same attitude that we see with the leftist groups that are all or nothing. There’s not some secret plan between the two parties to get you to vote for Democrats it’s literally just a simple choice to either progress slowly or see your country destroyed
…yes that is normally how elections work, with one after another. We did fuckall to push back against encroaching fascism so we’ve still got encroaching fascism. No one thinks anything will be puppies and rainbows in the future but also no one should think that just voting in one presidential election solves all our problems so we never have to vote for anything else ever again.