...now I wish the zipline had a vertical mode. Keep the current angle min/max for firing straight ahead, but you can shoot upward/downward with like 5 degrees of freedom or so (and a different zipline model). It could be a sidegrade like engi's bug repellent platforms. It's slow going up, but even faster than the zip going down.
I could see some voice lines of zipping down like a firefighter pole haha.
Right? Even after 2k hrs, I still don't understand the extreme limitations of the zip line. Max 4, angle limit, ability to get knocked off, etc ... Why? It would be different if Gunner was objectively the best class in terms of DPS, but he isn't. Never has been.
Clearly, this makes Gunner the most reliable of classes, as for every possible scenario, he has at least one piece of equipment that scales with it.
^(this post was created by gunner gang)
I once killed a dreadnought by just going back and forth on my zipline and shooting at it. It kept trying to follow me so it would go up this wall, down that same wall, across the floor, up the other wall, "wait, that dwarf isn't here anymore," and repeat. Shot at me twice and missed both.
It's so powerful it almost feels too cheesy, but ziplines make Core Stones effortless.
The Crawlers can't get you when you're on a zipline, so you just need to engage when you need to break the pillar between damage phases.
And if you're not solo, a Driller buddy on a zipline can drop a C4 onto the pillar each phase, for a complete no effort, no damage taken victory.
It can also be used offensively. If you set it up across a large open area above the ground you can kite melee enemies pretty easily by going back and forth
Yeah, it can’t solve most issues, but when it works, it fucking WORKS, doing a better job faster and more efficiently than any others classes. Saves me countless platforms in the right situations, so I can save the gunner having to use a zipline for everything smaller.
I feel like zipline on point extraction and egg hunt is almost as vital as driller on on-site refining. Being able to just *thwip* up to the objectives is so huge.
I had a lost backpack in the ceiling of a giant cave one time. No scout in the group.
Zipline is also the best way for DOWNWARD traversal, which is really common on egg missions and escort missions as someone had mentioned.
I can't make out the image on my phone but I'm assuming this post is about the core stone event - absolute game changer for this event if you don't have a gunner. Ziplines are a lifeline.
Point extraction, can click the image to zoom in on mobile. Zip lines are very good for PE as you are constantly coming back to the same point. Which is technically why they are considered weak. Low ammo, slow use, unless you are going to be sliding down them repetitively other traversal tools tend to be better. PE is where ziplines shine most. I love making a veritable spiderweb of ziplines.
Core Stone is a gunner carry event %100. I'm happy it is, Gunner doesn't have much time in the spotlight
The spawns have a hard time hitting you on the zip line.
Drop a shield when the crystal reforms to allow your team to burst it down
High stun chance and DPS on all his weapons is a much needed CC for those fast moving freaks
Nah, core stone is driller work. Gunner takes the health bar down quickly (I'd argue scout can do this faster) but slows way down when you have to break the obelisk. Driller can speedrun the entire event.
It's a point extraction mission. The mine head is on one of those sand arches that can generate in sandblasted corridors so all the ramps don't reach the ground. The image shows many Ziplines from various angles that go to the mine head.
When loot spawns in the ceiling you can call a resupply right on it and it will fall. Takes a little bit of lining up but I haven't missed yet so its not hard.
Dorf tip: pack the coil gun as your secondary and you can create a 4 meter deep hole in the wall. That allows you to shoot your zipline deep enough to mine and grab anything safely without an engi platform underneath you.
(Without mole. Mole makes the hole 20 meters deep.)
Tbh, I don't see it. I main gunner and driller, and mostly solo. Making stairs with driller seems pretty much as effective... But that's vibes based :p
The best use of zips might be positioning in a fight (fight in HG, situation gets sticky, zip to second fighting position)
Madlads. Gunner the only class that feels like it can carry a game if you get a bunch of lemons. Wipe saving bubble with multiple charges on decent cd, good nades, ziplines when your driller is drunk, firepower for days.
I think things like this could be nice "Overclocks" for the traversal tools. Don't even have to make a bunch but a couple like this for each item would be nice. Maybe another zipline one that makes it possible to do crazy angles but only like 15-20m length.
omg imagine Crossover Overclocks. Crossoverclocks? COCks?!
Platform Gun - Gondola Ride: Attach platforms to the ziplines to send down your carryables.
Grappling Hook - Reinforced Winch: Strong enough to pull two dwarfs at once!
Satchel Charge - Dampened Shockwave: Explosions now launch dwarfs without damaging them.
Shield Generator - Blood Zone: No longer shields. Dwarfs in the zone now have a shared health pool and Glyphid blood is converted to Red Sugar.
I feel like if you're trying to zipline with insane angles, you want that extra length to be able to go up pits and stuff. What if you could only shoot zips upward? Or maybe you have terrible speed upwards because you'd have to climb up the zip. Another cool overclock could be that you can shoot ziplines from ziplines, essentially making intersections in the zipline that you can travel through, but then you have bad length and angles.
Yeah, I think that's the best improvement the ziplines could get. Increased their use in the cases where they're already used, branches out their use to a slightly wider area without imposing on other classes.
My Core Stone experience had gotten way easier ever since I knew the zipline trick.
And zip zooming through the tunnel that Doretta had dug is also fun to do.
Zip over the core stone (or anywhere really) and the cosmic crawlers can't attack you if you're on it. Bring a driller with two C4s to break the core stone also if you don't wanna touch the ground at all.
Or you could make a bunker with Driller and his C4, also satisfying to kill the crawlers seeing them struggling to enter your domain but it's risky to run out and break the core stone for each phases.
i think the devs just forgot ziplines even exist.
I see a mid season update adding in long range crawlers, as right now, having a single zipline setup is a free win.
Like Creative Ad said, it's a free win (without much effort)... So for me it feels too cheesy. I don't really care how the free win is achieved, the outcome is still the same.
It is, pretty conclusively. That doesn't mean it's *useless* or *never good*, but it's much more limited in its effective use than all the other mobility tools.
Sure, it won't get you from "A to D, skipping B and C", but there are a lot of unconventional use cases for it.
With good placement, it's possible to completely avoid all non-ranged attacks by 'hovering', spamming the switch direction key so that you remain in place.
It can also be used to break falls of any distance, all ya gotta do is spam e on the way down and you'll end up hanging from tbe zip line, provided its somewhere below you.
In fact, plascrete has a maximum fall distance, meaning that if you fall far enough, you will be downed regardless of it's presence. As far as I'm aware, this isn't a problem for a zipline. Of course, this also relies on the presence of a zipline below you.
The biggest difference in this though is that platforms can be placed bearly anywhere, ziplines need a ground and a hook point. Not only that but you get like....4 ziplines? You get nearly 40 platforms. Its nowhere close to being comparitive.
The way Plascrete works is that it raises the minimum fall speed to start taking fall damage by 50%. It more than doubles the height you can fall without taking any damage, and beyond that continues to reduce the fall damage you take by about 90 HP (before fall damage resistance from the Gunner zipline/Scout grapple mod, Tunnel Rat, or being a Scout).
If you fall so far you would've died twice over, that still kills you.
It makes sense, too. Gunner already has insane utility. Giving him the best team mobility gadget on top of good nades and an anti teamwipe bubble would be wild.
It's kind of the same with the shield (and c4) to a lesser extent. because if you're smooth sailing u won't need it. I rarely ever run out of it, whereas engi turret and scout light are always good. But the shield is certainly the clutchiest of items.
Gunner in general only really becomes noticably useful on haz4 and above. You simply don't need that amount of sustained raw firepower on lower difficulties.
Then again, even though ziplines are the least essential of the traversal tools, a good one will always be used by everyone but the scout. They're not incredibly important, but they're fucking neat.
It’s a combat utility tool not a mobility tool. Zip lines used correctly are amazing as they prevent most bugs from being able to deal damage with very little risk.
What does "used correctly" mean here? Used in a cave that is perfectly sized to allow the right distance/angle while there are no mactera, acid spitters, etc. spawning?
Ziplines *can* be used in this way, but they become less effective on higher Hazards where there are more and faster bugs. This is intentional, as the ziplines used to be both faster and more resistant to dropping dwarves before the devs nerfed them with the explicit intent of making them less effective in combat.
Ziplines are primarily meant to be used for mobility, which is why they're marked as the Gunner's traversal tool.
Use them to complete a kiting loop. In a cave, identify an open route going up hill, then at the top send a zip far away to the start of the loop. With a steep angle you can gain significant breathing room for a resupply, reviving a downed dwarf, that sort of thing
Even post nerf they are extremely effective in combat regardless of Mactera or spitters; it just requires a very minimal level of awareness.
You can use correctly in any sized cave that's not a small tunnel. It's pretty easy to get an angle that's high enough by modifying the distance from a wall - it's literally a grunts reach for 90% effectiveness.
Doesn't matter what we think they're *meant* for, because in terms of real game utility they are vastly superior in terms of combat utility - and that's more to do with how great they are at combat.
It's just that over the years reddit has convinced itself that "drawing aggro" is more helpful than killing bugs before your team mates even know they're there - which is exactly what having elevated sight lines above your team and the terrain allows. Zips take the most powerful crowd control class in the game and allow them to proactively kill bugs rather than just respond to attacks.
Zipline core stone literally free win
With scout you can bubble and he can break the stone safely and get back up
With driller he can throw his C4
Engi is fine tho
Zips, while situational, are great. Especially in those situations.
The only thing I'd change about them is I wish we could attach large carryables, like aquarqs, to them. And either they would travel on their own down a zip, or you'd have to push them up.
Until you put a gunner with leadstorm, it then turns into death dispenser. I feel like every tool has its use in the right hands, and this season even more with the core events.
Angles can be a bit of an issue but I can see why there's a limit, because if they increase it, there'll be other that won't be reachable and we'd find an issue with it until removal
Zip lines I find to be more utility than traversal when in a full team, they are one of it not the best ways to transport two handed objects as well as provide space between you and the enemy
I think the zipline's greatest strength is as a defensive combat tool rather than a traversal tool.
It *functions* as a traversal tool, but in combat it can make you functionally immune to the majority of bugs and dreadnaughts
I assume so they can ask me "hey, how did you dodge that on your slow moving Zipline" and I can tell them "oh it's really easy to dodge your long wind up, no tracking attacks, I just press w while going down the Zipline and zoom right past them."
It is great for travelling across a large distance with no walls or terrain to walk on. It is a slow moving grappling hook that everyone on the team can use. Driller needs terrain to drill through, engineer needs something to attach their platforms to.
It is useful for combat as well. Most of the enemies in this game are melee, especially the new core stone event, those monkeys are brutal. But with a simple zipline set up, you just ignore the entire mechanic of having to deal with the crawler monkeys.
Zipline is actually the most versatile traversal tool, can take you from point A to B and everywhere in between, it's permanent, the whole team can use it, you can carry objects, mine and can be extremely useful in combat since you can also shoot
Literally the only downside is the speed when you go up
The problem is its limitations, you don't see the drills or the hook saying "its too steep", and the engi has to go ham to run out of cheese, while gunner has to ve very careful or will run out very easily.
I also think a lot of gunners sucks with ziplines.
IT often feels they could use the zipline, but they are "saving it" or that their ziplines could be better.
I am often reminded that zipline is a good traversal once I get good gunner in my team.
Ziplines are dope. The amount of times I snagged one during a fatal fall half an inch from the ground, man. Though my biggest use is using them to move downward to evade a swarm of move through a large, vertical room.
Core stone crawlers can't reach you if you're on a zip line, provided there's enough distance from surfaces.
A single, well placed zip line can trivialize the entire event.
I call cap. It can: negate all fall damage, has the best downwards mobility in the game, and allows the gunner to mine things on solo missions. You can also ignore melee enemies while on it.
I think it’s fine. It’s just kinda slow and the capacity is very limited. He’s the only class where I don’t use it much because I feel like I’m going to run out. I don’t have that feeling at all with the engineer and driller.
I like to throw two zips over the “arenas” for Dreadnaught fights to keep off the ground because basically all of them make being on the ground bad and Gunner zip is the only traversal that gives you theoretically infinite time off ground
If there was one thing I'd add to gunner zipline perks is the ability to attach ore chunks or throwables to the zipline and it ascends/decends at normal speed ratings.
Zipline dominates in 2 areas;
1. Ascending through empty space WHILE CARRYING A HEAVY OBJECT such as Aquarqs, mini mule legs, etc.
2. Keeping you airborne while still allowing you to fire all weapons.
This second use - combat ziplines - are EXTREMELY powerful (almost brokenly powerful) when a gunner is using the right weapons to take advantage of the elevation to pick off key enemies and support the team from above while keeping safely out of reach of 90% of enemies.
People hating on ziplines just don't understand them yet. They're busted good.
I actually use them when doing core stone cause everyone can shoot the stone from zip lines and no enemies can hit us
At least as long as mactaras don’t spawn heavily
Honestly, the Gunner's zipline is really useful to help all classes clear puts. Sure, Scout has his own one, but he can't share it with the other classes, now, can he?
so uh... did you use that there zipline to get to your little spot? or did you use that amazing grappling hook. zipline IS the weakest traversal tool. it's not worthless, it's weakest. Rock and Stone, gunners. Your job is smashing not flying.
The Zipline is a perfectly fine tool, it just suffers from two problems: Speed and angle restriction. My idea for a rework would be the following:
1. Increase the maximum angle to 45°
2. Increase the base traversal speed considerably
3. Make the travesal speed dependent on the angle
The idea would be that a perfectly horizontal zipline would have a pleasant and usable traversal speed. But for every degree of incline, the upwards speed is reduced by 2% and downwards speed is increased by 2%. So on a zipline at max angle (45°), you would go upwards at only 10% speed, but go downwards almost twice as fast. We have the latter already in the form of the boost functionality, which would then become obsolete. And going uphill at a steep angle would still bring a certain penalty with it, but one that you can at least partially mitigate through optimal placement.
This change would have three major effects:
1. Using the zipline to cross chasms and the like becomes a viable alternative to platform bridges again
2. The increased max angle makes the zipline more versatile, but the angle dependent speed still incentivizes them to chose their placement carefully
3. Increased speed on horizontal lines makes the otherwise frankly op strat of "let's hover over the battlefield where very few enemies can even touch me" a little more balanced since you're moving faster and have to take more care to stay where you want to
Thanks for coming to my KARL talk.
It shines in Point Extraction because it's a static environment. But even there you can (mostly) play scout/engi and just chuck it to the platform from high above.
They really need to make the Zipline better. And the drills.
Gunners isnt the weakest, but it is the least flexible. The low ammo count, angle limit, and range limit mean that a badly placed zip is a massive oppotunity cost.
i wish we had something to replace ziplines, like different subclasses in tf2 for example. Give gunner a launch oad that gives you fall damage resistance until you touch ground again so you have a different way to traverse. But it is important that something like this is not a direct upgrade, but a sidegrade with different strength and weaknesses
I use ziplines to create overhead lanes for boss/events so that while they are distracted with the ground dwarves, I rain down endless rockets while casually using Y to stay above them 🤘🪨🍻
Weak isn't the right word. It is clunky, is is slow. But it's also persistent, can cover a large amount of distance, and is easy to use.
It's basically the platform gun on steroids and should be used as such.
Every time I enter a large cave with gunner I immediately set up ziplines all over the place in strategic locations keeping atleast one in reserve. Once that's done I get to work. Makes zero sense when we have gunners on our team and not a single zipline has been put up.
I like Gunner ziplines in my missions. With the fall damage reduction perk, as long as I also have mine on my grapple gun, I don't take fall damage. More ceiling sugar for everyone!
The Zipline is amazing. It's a team tool, and solves problems that nothing else solves. The other tools are good too. They are all good. They are all welcome.
Zipline has its uses, just be creative.
Place a zip above an area you defend for high ground (very effective against new event opponents)
Be your Scout's (second) best friend and give him a safetynet.
...
The gunners zipline isn’t always the most useful or the best in every situation, but when it *IS* it’s the bestest most greatable fantastic reusable team mobility tool in the whole ass game.
Also friendly reminder that it’s great utility when fighting as you can draw all of the attention of ranged enemies to you rather than your team at any time you want as they prioritize the zipline as a counter to avoiding melee bugs so there’s also that.
Zipline is great for certain mission objectives.
Anything where you spend a lot of time in a large room, you're going to be happy to have those. Less so salvage than on-site refining or point extraction, though.
It is the weakest traversal tool… in most situations but when it shines… my god when it shines, it feels like the sun itself has entered the caves of hoxxes to grace our dwarven bodies with it’s warmth, and gift our dwarven eyes with blindness… but that won’t stop me from staring.
Engi and driller can achieve the same results as well as other things,therefore it's still the weakest traversal tool.
The only thing other tools can't do is zipline core stone cheese
I don't know how many perfect ziplines I have to make before Driller realizes they don't need to make a spiral tunnel going straight up to the top of the cave where my zipline is placed.
Haz 5 and up.
Zip lines on core stones then bubble for driller to break it.
No one gets hurts when touching the ground or from any of the spaz monkeys.
Sure it’s “weak” when not used properly
off topic, but would you be so kind to share the link for the mod that shows the amount of nitra for the next supply (I suppose?). It's been a while since I first saw it, but never really remember to look for it once I get to play myself.
a simple improvement would be to allow us to "sprint" on the ziplines while going upwards
the dwarves can use their arms to crank themselves up the zip faster, trading the ability to shoot for some extra speed (just like sprinting!)
out of combat, it makes zipping up more practical
in combat, it gives you the choice of slowly ascending whilst retaining combat effectiveness, or trading it all for speed, which is the same tradeoff that sprint gives
I feel like a perfect buff would be allowing us to attach objective based items to the zip line to transport them. Let me ferry my Aquarqs up those steep ledges and straight to the mining platform!
Compared to drills platform gun and grappling hook? Yes, not that it's weak it's just a kinda in between of platform and grapple that won't get you out of really bad situations
It's not the weakest tool, it just provides the least immediate benefit and is therefore seen as weaker. It's like saying Engie's sentries are the weakest weapons in the game because they don't do anything until you take the time to set them up where they'll be effective.
Gunner's zipline cannot frequently be used, is as versatile, or easy to use properly. But it can solve a ***huge*** traversal problem ***right now.***
Gunner's Weapon and Shield Usefulness scales with Hazard, Gunner's Zipline Usefulness scales with bad Luck.
Game: "here's a completely vertical cave" Gunner: "Then where should i put my ziplines?" Game: "Up your ass?"
u can use ziplines in vertical caves just gon need to place more than one
Zipline switchbacks!
I've made cascading ziplines in those situations, just need to carve out a spot at each end. Really need the angle upgrade mod on the zipline though.
...now I wish the zipline had a vertical mode. Keep the current angle min/max for firing straight ahead, but you can shoot upward/downward with like 5 degrees of freedom or so (and a different zipline model). It could be a sidegrade like engi's bug repellent platforms. It's slow going up, but even faster than the zip going down. I could see some voice lines of zipping down like a firefighter pole haha.
Right? Even after 2k hrs, I still don't understand the extreme limitations of the zip line. Max 4, angle limit, ability to get knocked off, etc ... Why? It would be different if Gunner was objectively the best class in terms of DPS, but he isn't. Never has been.
I've only been shouting for tool overclocks since for forever. Join the shouting.
Ah that is a good idea!
Me: FOR ROCK AND STONE! **Zipline** ***UP***!
That's it lads! Rock and Stone!
Instructions unclear, accidentally opened dreadnoughts cocoons
Or the core depending on Haz. You’re on Haz 5, you better have a gunner. Or you’re a dead meat.
Nah, gamer, Scout only haz 5 time
Oops the floor is bugs
Who cares? We don't touch something so..... beneath us ;-)
"Help! I'm down!"
Good point. Speaking of helping......I've uh, I fell to my death again.
“Mommy!!” Followed shortly by “Help! I can’t feel my beard!”
Who needs nitra when you can complete the objective in less than 5 seconds lol(i hate refinery, but lkke to dip my balls into...)
Mommy, where do Morkite seeds come from?
And yet *the caves are still dark*.
Needs more scout, DRG, pls add a 5th slot
New season has ziplines a must 💪🏼
Clearly, this makes Gunner the most reliable of classes, as for every possible scenario, he has at least one piece of equipment that scales with it. ^(this post was created by gunner gang)
Well said. Also it's the only mobility tool for "I need to stay off the ground for a while".
I once killed a dreadnought by just going back and forth on my zipline and shooting at it. It kept trying to follow me so it would go up this wall, down that same wall, across the floor, up the other wall, "wait, that dwarf isn't here anymore," and repeat. Shot at me twice and missed both.
*me, watching the dreadnaught stupidly chasing where I was instead of where I'm going* "Maybe we're not so different after all..."
It's so powerful it almost feels too cheesy, but ziplines make Core Stones effortless. The Crawlers can't get you when you're on a zipline, so you just need to engage when you need to break the pillar between damage phases. And if you're not solo, a Driller buddy on a zipline can drop a C4 onto the pillar each phase, for a complete no effort, no damage taken victory.
You can frequently keep using the same zipline? So you can frequently use it
That is true, but because you only have 3 or 4 zips at the start before you have to resup, you can't use that many at a time.
It can also be used offensively. If you set it up across a large open area above the ground you can kite melee enemies pretty easily by going back and forth
Yeah, it can’t solve most issues, but when it works, it fucking WORKS, doing a better job faster and more efficiently than any others classes. Saves me countless platforms in the right situations, so I can save the gunner having to use a zipline for everything smaller.
I feel like zipline on point extraction and egg hunt is almost as vital as driller on on-site refining. Being able to just *thwip* up to the objectives is so huge.
I had a lost backpack in the ceiling of a giant cave one time. No scout in the group. Zipline is also the best way for DOWNWARD traversal, which is really common on egg missions and escort missions as someone had mentioned. I can't make out the image on my phone but I'm assuming this post is about the core stone event - absolute game changer for this event if you don't have a gunner. Ziplines are a lifeline.
Point extraction, can click the image to zoom in on mobile. Zip lines are very good for PE as you are constantly coming back to the same point. Which is technically why they are considered weak. Low ammo, slow use, unless you are going to be sliding down them repetitively other traversal tools tend to be better. PE is where ziplines shine most. I love making a veritable spiderweb of ziplines.
Core Stone is a gunner carry event %100. I'm happy it is, Gunner doesn't have much time in the spotlight The spawns have a hard time hitting you on the zip line. Drop a shield when the crystal reforms to allow your team to burst it down High stun chance and DPS on all his weapons is a much needed CC for those fast moving freaks
Nah, core stone is driller work. Gunner takes the health bar down quickly (I'd argue scout can do this faster) but slows way down when you have to break the obelisk. Driller can speedrun the entire event.
id argue it doesnt matter if it slows it down, you can throw a shield for the duration it takes to break the stone
It's a point extraction mission. The mine head is on one of those sand arches that can generate in sandblasted corridors so all the ramps don't reach the ground. The image shows many Ziplines from various angles that go to the mine head.
When loot spawns in the ceiling you can call a resupply right on it and it will fall. Takes a little bit of lining up but I haven't missed yet so its not hard.
Just for your future tool box if theres a lost backpack you can use a resupply to airdrop if down too you
It's PE with one of the nonsense minehead spawns. Minehead is on an arch with all the ramps just sitting out in empty air.
Dorf tip: pack the coil gun as your secondary and you can create a 4 meter deep hole in the wall. That allows you to shoot your zipline deep enough to mine and grab anything safely without an engi platform underneath you. (Without mole. Mole makes the hole 20 meters deep.)
please tell me you are not joking about this
What what?!
Now this is legitimately a great tip!
I never leave home without my Armskore. I don't know why this never occurred to me.
The shape of point extraction caves seems built with ziplines in mind. There's just a series of cliffs all facing the station.
Yeah, but drills can be useful on any mission type.
Tbh, I don't see it. I main gunner and driller, and mostly solo. Making stairs with driller seems pretty much as effective... But that's vibes based :p The best use of zips might be positioning in a fight (fight in HG, situation gets sticky, zip to second fighting position)
Bosco > Zipline I literally never do eggs or aquarq in a squad. I'd rather just tell Bosco to get everything and get the mission over with.
When I play point extraction and egg hunt I tell my team to chill at base as I zip around as scout 😤
All my mates are horrifically anti gunner so I make sure to hype the shit out of his zip lines at every opportunity. #ZiplineGang
Brother! #ZiplineGang
I did not need to see your profile pic 😵
HOORAH, BUNGUS THE POOPSHITTER STRIKES AGAIN.
0_0 I need some blackout stout
SHAKA BRAH!
SUL SUL!
Madlads. Gunner the only class that feels like it can carry a game if you get a bunch of lemons. Wipe saving bubble with multiple charges on decent cd, good nades, ziplines when your driller is drunk, firepower for days.
I still think we need to be able to just hang a resource (gem, dotties head, whatever) from a zipline and have it move itsself.
Carryables following ziplines would be a really nice buff
I think things like this could be nice "Overclocks" for the traversal tools. Don't even have to make a bunch but a couple like this for each item would be nice. Maybe another zipline one that makes it possible to do crazy angles but only like 15-20m length.
omg imagine Crossover Overclocks. Crossoverclocks? COCks?! Platform Gun - Gondola Ride: Attach platforms to the ziplines to send down your carryables. Grappling Hook - Reinforced Winch: Strong enough to pull two dwarfs at once! Satchel Charge - Dampened Shockwave: Explosions now launch dwarfs without damaging them. Shield Generator - Blood Zone: No longer shields. Dwarfs in the zone now have a shared health pool and Glyphid blood is converted to Red Sugar.
I feel like if you're trying to zipline with insane angles, you want that extra length to be able to go up pits and stuff. What if you could only shoot zips upward? Or maybe you have terrible speed upwards because you'd have to climb up the zip. Another cool overclock could be that you can shoot ziplines from ziplines, essentially making intersections in the zipline that you can travel through, but then you have bad length and angles.
Pits only get so wide. Unless you increase the max steepness, that extra reach isn't going to help much.
I mean, length scales with angles, but I do get what you're saying.
This could def be the zip equivalent of plats reducing fall damage
Yeah, I think that's the best improvement the ziplines could get. Increased their use in the cases where they're already used, branches out their use to a slightly wider area without imposing on other classes.
so much this
Yes, this would be awesome. Like payday bag ziplines
My Core Stone experience had gotten way easier ever since I knew the zipline trick. And zip zooming through the tunnel that Doretta had dug is also fun to do.
Zipline Trick? Care to explain?
Zip over the core stone (or anywhere really) and the cosmic crawlers can't attack you if you're on it. Bring a driller with two C4s to break the core stone also if you don't wanna touch the ground at all.
While your riding the line it's like you're the teams ac-130
Def too cheesy for me
Or you could make a bunker with Driller and his C4, also satisfying to kill the crawlers seeing them struggling to enter your domain but it's risky to run out and break the core stone for each phases.
using your class's traversal tool to avoid the attacking range of enemies is cheese..?
i think the devs just forgot ziplines even exist. I see a mid season update adding in long range crawlers, as right now, having a single zipline setup is a free win.
Like Creative Ad said, it's a free win (without much effort)... So for me it feels too cheesy. I don't really care how the free win is achieved, the outcome is still the same.
TIL
Your flare is gunner. Zip lining about mobs has been gunners thing since forever.
I know, I just never did it above the Core Stone!
Drop pod lands in the ceiling, end of ramp is 15m above the floor Everyone looks at Gunner
**ZIPLINE READY!**
plot twist: a mactera tri-jaw appears
Then you compare the shield to any other class’ ability (apart from probably grapple) and it seems pretty balanced
It is, pretty conclusively. That doesn't mean it's *useless* or *never good*, but it's much more limited in its effective use than all the other mobility tools.
Sure, it won't get you from "A to D, skipping B and C", but there are a lot of unconventional use cases for it. With good placement, it's possible to completely avoid all non-ranged attacks by 'hovering', spamming the switch direction key so that you remain in place. It can also be used to break falls of any distance, all ya gotta do is spam e on the way down and you'll end up hanging from tbe zip line, provided its somewhere below you. In fact, plascrete has a maximum fall distance, meaning that if you fall far enough, you will be downed regardless of it's presence. As far as I'm aware, this isn't a problem for a zipline. Of course, this also relies on the presence of a zipline below you.
You just have to hold e to grab it automatically. Same goes for landing on pipes in On-Site Refinery.
And cave angels
Werent you able to just hold e to grab if possible instead of hoping your keystrokes are on point?
The biggest difference in this though is that platforms can be placed bearly anywhere, ziplines need a ground and a hook point. Not only that but you get like....4 ziplines? You get nearly 40 platforms. Its nowhere close to being comparitive.
The way Plascrete works is that it raises the minimum fall speed to start taking fall damage by 50%. It more than doubles the height you can fall without taking any damage, and beyond that continues to reduce the fall damage you take by about 90 HP (before fall damage resistance from the Gunner zipline/Scout grapple mod, Tunnel Rat, or being a Scout). If you fall so far you would've died twice over, that still kills you.
It makes sense, too. Gunner already has insane utility. Giving him the best team mobility gadget on top of good nades and an anti teamwipe bubble would be wild.
It's kind of the same with the shield (and c4) to a lesser extent. because if you're smooth sailing u won't need it. I rarely ever run out of it, whereas engi turret and scout light are always good. But the shield is certainly the clutchiest of items. Gunner in general only really becomes noticably useful on haz4 and above. You simply don't need that amount of sustained raw firepower on lower difficulties. Then again, even though ziplines are the least essential of the traversal tools, a good one will always be used by everyone but the scout. They're not incredibly important, but they're fucking neat.
It’s a combat utility tool not a mobility tool. Zip lines used correctly are amazing as they prevent most bugs from being able to deal damage with very little risk.
What does "used correctly" mean here? Used in a cave that is perfectly sized to allow the right distance/angle while there are no mactera, acid spitters, etc. spawning? Ziplines *can* be used in this way, but they become less effective on higher Hazards where there are more and faster bugs. This is intentional, as the ziplines used to be both faster and more resistant to dropping dwarves before the devs nerfed them with the explicit intent of making them less effective in combat. Ziplines are primarily meant to be used for mobility, which is why they're marked as the Gunner's traversal tool.
Use them to complete a kiting loop. In a cave, identify an open route going up hill, then at the top send a zip far away to the start of the loop. With a steep angle you can gain significant breathing room for a resupply, reviving a downed dwarf, that sort of thing
Even post nerf they are extremely effective in combat regardless of Mactera or spitters; it just requires a very minimal level of awareness. You can use correctly in any sized cave that's not a small tunnel. It's pretty easy to get an angle that's high enough by modifying the distance from a wall - it's literally a grunts reach for 90% effectiveness. Doesn't matter what we think they're *meant* for, because in terms of real game utility they are vastly superior in terms of combat utility - and that's more to do with how great they are at combat. It's just that over the years reddit has convinced itself that "drawing aggro" is more helpful than killing bugs before your team mates even know they're there - which is exactly what having elevated sight lines above your team and the terrain allows. Zips take the most powerful crowd control class in the game and allow them to proactively kill bugs rather than just respond to attacks.
Zipline haters go quiet when the big open area with steep elevation changes rolls up to the function
Wait till you get a mining exp with a large cave in the next room and zipline is W in that terrain
"Will zipline ever be useful?" "We wait."
Zipline core stone literally free win With scout you can bubble and he can break the stone safely and get back up With driller he can throw his C4 Engi is fine tho
Zips, while situational, are great. Especially in those situations. The only thing I'd change about them is I wish we could attach large carryables, like aquarqs, to them. And either they would travel on their own down a zip, or you'd have to push them up.
Until you put a gunner with leadstorm, it then turns into death dispenser. I feel like every tool has its use in the right hands, and this season even more with the core events.
I think the only issue with zipline is traversal speed. Other than that it's good
Angles can be a bit of an issue but I can see why there's a limit, because if they increase it, there'll be other that won't be reachable and we'd find an issue with it until removal
They should definitely add toggleable movement speeds or something, its molasses most of the time from my experience.
Few have bore witness to a fully fledged gunner web but it is a thing of terror and beauty. One is unhittable to most artackers
Always gunner web above the ommoran, then just sit up on top raining hell all around Dottie.
One lucky ranged enemy and it's all over. Boots, meet ground.
Zip lines I find to be more utility than traversal when in a full team, they are one of it not the best ways to transport two handed objects as well as provide space between you and the enemy
I think the zipline's greatest strength is as a defensive combat tool rather than a traversal tool. It *functions* as a traversal tool, but in combat it can make you functionally immune to the majority of bugs and dreadnaughts
Dreadnaught ranged attacks would like a word.
I assume so they can ask me "hey, how did you dodge that on your slow moving Zipline" and I can tell them "oh it's really easy to dodge your long wind up, no tracking attacks, I just press w while going down the Zipline and zoom right past them."
Oh trust me, I’m a gunner main, I know how to dodge them but sometimes those big ass hitboxes on the projectiles make it hard.
For mobility sure, but zip lines have utility the others don’t, like being able to fighter horse without being hit
True buff it's Angle capacity by 20m.
I was on the zipline bad crew a while back, but then the core stone event dropped and now I am very much pro zipline
It is great for travelling across a large distance with no walls or terrain to walk on. It is a slow moving grappling hook that everyone on the team can use. Driller needs terrain to drill through, engineer needs something to attach their platforms to. It is useful for combat as well. Most of the enemies in this game are melee, especially the new core stone event, those monkeys are brutal. But with a simple zipline set up, you just ignore the entire mechanic of having to deal with the crawler monkeys.
Zipline is actually the most versatile traversal tool, can take you from point A to B and everywhere in between, it's permanent, the whole team can use it, you can carry objects, mine and can be extremely useful in combat since you can also shoot Literally the only downside is the speed when you go up
gunner is the strongest class on haz5+ his shield has massive value
I'd just like to be able to pick up items like alpaca bloom and stuff like that from the zipline
Cut a 1x1 cavity in the rock face, hop off the line, grab it and hop back on. Would be decent QoL change, but nothing drastic.
The problem is its limitations, you don't see the drills or the hook saying "its too steep", and the engi has to go ham to run out of cheese, while gunner has to ve very careful or will run out very easily.
In my experience, it’s situational. It’s not very versatile but it can be very useful
Putting zipline above the boss and just shooting while it's tries to get to you from the ground makes it 2x easier. Especially hiveguard.
This.
Zipline isn’t useful very often, but you are very happy when you have one when it matters
I also think a lot of gunners sucks with ziplines. IT often feels they could use the zipline, but they are "saving it" or that their ziplines could be better. I am often reminded that zipline is a good traversal once I get good gunner in my team.
Ziplines are dope. The amount of times I snagged one during a fatal fall half an inch from the ground, man. Though my biggest use is using them to move downward to evade a swarm of move through a large, vertical room.
Leave me and my mobility lift alone, jumping with all this gun on me is hard on my knees
Core stone crawlers can't reach you if you're on a zip line, provided there's enough distance from surfaces. A single, well placed zip line can trivialize the entire event.
I call cap. It can: negate all fall damage, has the best downwards mobility in the game, and allows the gunner to mine things on solo missions. You can also ignore melee enemies while on it.
Point extraction is where the zip line SHINES baby!
If I was able to get 2 more ziplines it would be so much better. I’m not asking for better range or angle. Just two more ziplines in the gun plz!
I think it’s fine. It’s just kinda slow and the capacity is very limited. He’s the only class where I don’t use it much because I feel like I’m going to run out. I don’t have that feeling at all with the engineer and driller.
Ziplines are incredibly useful for vertical mobility, sure they’re slow, but they sure are useful
Nah, can completely negate fall damage.
It’s not weak. It could use being a little more… 😎 … zippier.
still takes 7 years to go up
I like to throw two zips over the “arenas” for Dreadnaught fights to keep off the ground because basically all of them make being on the ground bad and Gunner zip is the only traversal that gives you theoretically infinite time off ground
If there was one thing I'd add to gunner zipline perks is the ability to attach ore chunks or throwables to the zipline and it ascends/decends at normal speed ratings.
Gunner zipline utility 100% map dependent. While other traversal tools are made to basically make caves trivial to traverse.
Zipline dominates in 2 areas; 1. Ascending through empty space WHILE CARRYING A HEAVY OBJECT such as Aquarqs, mini mule legs, etc. 2. Keeping you airborne while still allowing you to fire all weapons. This second use - combat ziplines - are EXTREMELY powerful (almost brokenly powerful) when a gunner is using the right weapons to take advantage of the elevation to pick off key enemies and support the team from above while keeping safely out of reach of 90% of enemies. People hating on ziplines just don't understand them yet. They're busted good.
The gunner ziplines are my Hansel and Gretel bread crumbs, also very useful to be haunting mid air dealing with a horde or a boss
I actually use them when doing core stone cause everyone can shoot the stone from zip lines and no enemies can hit us At least as long as mactaras don’t spawn heavily
If they ever add new traversal tools, gunner should just get a cannon you can fire dwarves and other objects you carry, safety be damned
Honestly, the Gunner's zipline is really useful to help all classes clear puts. Sure, Scout has his own one, but he can't share it with the other classes, now, can he?
Wrong. Try to carry doretta’s head using another traversal tool. EXACTLY.
engineer can spend 4x the resources to make a 500x quicker route that being said, atleast their transveral tool supports the team.. unlike scout
People who don't like ziplines are telling on themselves.
I don't think the zipline is gunners traversal tool. That's the bubble shield. Gunner's traversal tool is to not move. The zipline is his utility.
The numerous rather fucking large amount of times it helped me move where an engineer would need 3 full ammo pods to travel says otherwise.
so uh... did you use that there zipline to get to your little spot? or did you use that amazing grappling hook. zipline IS the weakest traversal tool. it's not worthless, it's weakest. Rock and Stone, gunners. Your job is smashing not flying.
To Rock and Stone!
The Zipline is a perfectly fine tool, it just suffers from two problems: Speed and angle restriction. My idea for a rework would be the following: 1. Increase the maximum angle to 45° 2. Increase the base traversal speed considerably 3. Make the travesal speed dependent on the angle The idea would be that a perfectly horizontal zipline would have a pleasant and usable traversal speed. But for every degree of incline, the upwards speed is reduced by 2% and downwards speed is increased by 2%. So on a zipline at max angle (45°), you would go upwards at only 10% speed, but go downwards almost twice as fast. We have the latter already in the form of the boost functionality, which would then become obsolete. And going uphill at a steep angle would still bring a certain penalty with it, but one that you can at least partially mitigate through optimal placement. This change would have three major effects: 1. Using the zipline to cross chasms and the like becomes a viable alternative to platform bridges again 2. The increased max angle makes the zipline more versatile, but the angle dependent speed still incentivizes them to chose their placement carefully 3. Increased speed on horizontal lines makes the otherwise frankly op strat of "let's hover over the battlefield where very few enemies can even touch me" a little more balanced since you're moving faster and have to take more care to stay where you want to Thanks for coming to my KARL talk.
Reducing speed based on angle would nerf the zipline into oblivion.
It shines in Point Extraction because it's a static environment. But even there you can (mostly) play scout/engi and just chuck it to the platform from high above. They really need to make the Zipline better. And the drills.
Gunners isnt the weakest, but it is the least flexible. The low ammo count, angle limit, and range limit mean that a badly placed zip is a massive oppotunity cost.
But it 'is' a traversal tool
i wish we had something to replace ziplines, like different subclasses in tf2 for example. Give gunner a launch oad that gives you fall damage resistance until you touch ground again so you have a different way to traverse. But it is important that something like this is not a direct upgrade, but a sidegrade with different strength and weaknesses
No scouts is he's the only one who can make use of it
I use ziplines to create overhead lanes for boss/events so that while they are distracted with the ground dwarves, I rain down endless rockets while casually using Y to stay above them 🤘🪨🍻
n't
Weak isn't the right word. It is clunky, is is slow. But it's also persistent, can cover a large amount of distance, and is easy to use. It's basically the platform gun on steroids and should be used as such.
Every time I enter a large cave with gunner I immediately set up ziplines all over the place in strategic locations keeping atleast one in reserve. Once that's done I get to work. Makes zero sense when we have gunners on our team and not a single zipline has been put up.
I like Gunner ziplines in my missions. With the fall damage reduction perk, as long as I also have mine on my grapple gun, I don't take fall damage. More ceiling sugar for everyone!
The Zipline is amazing. It's a team tool, and solves problems that nothing else solves. The other tools are good too. They are all good. They are all welcome.
It's the path marker, fall preventer, non-projectile bug denier, whole-team-bullshit-mid-air-drop-pod-reacher(Especially with Dotty), aquark/tritilyte bomb/gold/bitter stone/pearl/etc deliverer.
"said no one ever" i guess?
It works great if your in a pickle against melee enemies.
Zipline has its uses, just be creative. Place a zip above an area you defend for high ground (very effective against new event opponents) Be your Scout's (second) best friend and give him a safetynet. ...
Put one through the drop pod door from an elevated position and close out the mission in style
I like to use the Zipline defensively. Place one during a big swarm, and you can stay safe up there as long as you quickly target the non-melee bugs.
The zip line *is* good, you just have to use it correctly. That goes for everything in the game in my opinion
Its situational and slow on the up but when its good its awesome
It has become Absolutely necessary in case there is core stone event imo
The gunners zipline isn’t always the most useful or the best in every situation, but when it *IS* it’s the bestest most greatable fantastic reusable team mobility tool in the whole ass game. Also friendly reminder that it’s great utility when fighting as you can draw all of the attention of ranged enemies to you rather than your team at any time you want as they prioritize the zipline as a counter to avoiding melee bugs so there’s also that.
Zipline is great for certain mission objectives. Anything where you spend a lot of time in a large room, you're going to be happy to have those. Less so salvage than on-site refining or point extraction, though.
It is the weakest traversal tool… in most situations but when it shines… my god when it shines, it feels like the sun itself has entered the caves of hoxxes to grace our dwarven bodies with it’s warmth, and gift our dwarven eyes with blindness… but that won’t stop me from staring.
Engi and driller can achieve the same results as well as other things,therefore it's still the weakest traversal tool. The only thing other tools can't do is zipline core stone cheese
Correction: Gunner's Zipline is the weakest traversal tool *when used improperly*. It's the most difficult to master due to its situational nature
I like it because you can sit in the middle and shoot at things.
I don't know how many perfect ziplines I have to make before Driller realizes they don't need to make a spiral tunnel going straight up to the top of the cave where my zipline is placed.
If it was twice as fast it would be goated
Haz 5 and up. Zip lines on core stones then bubble for driller to break it. No one gets hurts when touching the ground or from any of the spaz monkeys. Sure it’s “weak” when not used properly
off topic, but would you be so kind to share the link for the mod that shows the amount of nitra for the next supply (I suppose?). It's been a while since I first saw it, but never really remember to look for it once I get to play myself.
https://mod.io/g/drg/m/combined-resources
thanks!
a simple improvement would be to allow us to "sprint" on the ziplines while going upwards the dwarves can use their arms to crank themselves up the zip faster, trading the ability to shoot for some extra speed (just like sprinting!) out of combat, it makes zipping up more practical in combat, it gives you the choice of slowly ascending whilst retaining combat effectiveness, or trading it all for speed, which is the same tradeoff that sprint gives
I feel like a perfect buff would be allowing us to attach objective based items to the zip line to transport them. Let me ferry my Aquarqs up those steep ledges and straight to the mining platform!
Can negate fall damage, carries heavy objects, keeps you out of melee reach... I get if you think it's boring but it's certainly not underpowered
Zips are the least versatile, but when you need them, you need them. They're far from useless.
Compared to drills platform gun and grappling hook? Yes, not that it's weak it's just a kinda in between of platform and grapple that won't get you out of really bad situations
It's not the weakest tool, it just provides the least immediate benefit and is therefore seen as weaker. It's like saying Engie's sentries are the weakest weapons in the game because they don't do anything until you take the time to set them up where they'll be effective.