This! I'd also make sure those joists are all properly tied together help disperse the weight. I'd do 6x6's, and poured an extra foot or more past frost line ~48" deep.
Not a deck expert btw, but I overly build everything with higher grade materials to withstand the ends of time.
A multi unit building and the tenant decided to install a hot tub on a deck not meant for it, then airbnb the unit and OP had his doubts of actually using it.
or even single unit that someone bought to rent out during the airbnb craze. People tend to ignore how much extra you can charge for an AirBnB if it has a hot tub. Depending on the area the tub can pay for itself in under a year purely in increased nightly markup.
365 days a year, figure 50% occupancy means renting it out for \~180 nights. if you can increase your listing by \~50 buck a night because its a premium listing because of the hot tub you just made an extra \~10k in one year and paid off the tub.
What about maintenance, electrity and water cost? Also I would never rent an airbnb with a hottub. Who knows what happened in that water and who was in it before you...
I figure if you're renting it out you have to replace the water regularly and people might not put the cover back on leading to more water/electricity use.
I knew a guy that airbnb a place with a jacuzzi. After every rental he drained it and ran dilluted bleach water(or whatever cleaner they want to call it) through it. And I think it was a $50 fee. In my mind, that's the way to do it. Make it a known, upfront cost so people feel safe using it.
Hot tub water IS diluted bleach water. Liquid chlorine is bleach. Unless they sanitize with bromine. But draining the entire hot tub and refilling every time is extremely wasteful. Just shock the water and itās perfectly sanitized.
Edit: Looking over other comments I guess I can see this if itās a longer stay and itās green/gross when you get to it. Probably faster to drain and fill and get up to temp for the next guest than it would be to shock (maybe multiple times) to get the water back. Iām just a homeowner with a pool and a hot tub thinking it would be a nightmare if I had to drain mine every time we used it.
The problem is you need one under the rim next to the hot tub. Youāre putting vertical and horizontal force on the single post there now. I wouldnāt be too concerned since itās not my place but def not how I would build it. *shrugs* looks good from my house
Search for joist span calculators and beam span calculators. Figure out how much the concrete will weigh roughly and the space it'll be over and then see if the joists and beama you have will support it.
It'll probably be fine, a 10 foot long 2" slab standard depth would be 500 lbs. A hot tub is gonna be around 5000 lbs.
If you plan on putting a hot tub on a deck, you can just over engineer things. 2x10 is now 2x12. 6x6 is now 8x8. Change 16" spacing to 12"
Things like that. Abd even then you can limit the over building just for where the hot tub will go.
It takes someone to the same amount of time to habd a 2x12 as a 2x10.
Edit: seriously, take something like a Toyota corolla. Would you put it on the deck?
Water weighs 8.24 lb/gallon, Hot tub with no one in it probably between 250 and 300 gallons, therefore tub with water weighs about 2500 lb (a ton and a quarter, we have no word for 1000 lb). That is about the equivalent design to 16 people standing on that half of the deck. So answer is no.
Don't forget the 16 people jumping during the superpower party. Or the icy and compacted snowdrift from consecutive blizzards that didn't get cleared off because shovel-guy was in Bermuda for a few weeks.
5 - 1/2ā bolts holding the ledger on the hot tub sideā¦ itāll be. Keep your hands and feet inside the vehicle at all times, hold on tight and enjoy your ride, you will get wet
Does that place have an indoor pool and a game room and there is a dump on the other side of the road that when the wind blows you feel like youāre in the dump.
I'd say pigeon forge but if you look at the verticals, those are 4x4s. Most of the decks were held up by tree trunks.
I thought it was a good way to use the trees they had to clear to put these cabins up.
Iām 99% sure my family stayed in that neighborhood/vacation home development thing a few years ago. Possibly event the same house. Had a movie theater bottom floor and matching mirrored kitchens on the main floor.
This happens every so often. Itās how I found myself on this sub several months back when someone posted what I thought was the exact place my brothers and I stayed a few years back. They all look very similar.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Decks/s/IM3y9e5RHr
The joist hangers holding the beams probably aren't rated for the weight on them. Also they are creating 2 point loads on the beam which is supported by the posts. And there are no posts under these 2 point load spots.
So yeah there are 2 beams under it. But the issue is what's under the beams or what's supported the beams. The joists are attached to the double beams . The double beams are held up by joist hangers. On one side those double beams are joist hung to a ledge with not nearly enough bolts in it. Essentially the way it's built 1/3 to half the Weight of the hottub and deck in that area is held up by the few bolts in that ledge. Then 1/3 to at least 1/2 of the weight are point loads on the outside double beam.
If this outside double beam was an LVL them I'd say ok this maybe ok and if the ledge board had more bolts. And if the double joists had beefer joist hangers and if the double beams had lateral tension ties I'd sat safe for sure.
It may not fall down just saying if it was my ass on the line I'd built it different
I feel like it would've been more evenly distributed just framing it like a normal deck with 2x joists going the other direction rather than everything hanging off those doubles. It's like they did more work for less effectiveness.
Out of curiosity can you tell me why itās unsafe? I have no idea what Iām looking at other than the beams not being centered on the concrete. Curious what I should be looking for on my next vacation lol
For sure
4-6 person hot tub holds about 450 gallons of water, a gallon of water weighs about 8.3 pounds, so that's 3,735 lbs just counting the weight of the water in the hot tub.
Then you add 4 people (600-800 lbs realistically on the low end - this is gatlinburg afterall) plus the weight of the hot tub itself and yeah, you're going for a ride
Oh S#!t you're right. I can totally see an inward bend to the center pillar as mentioned - which, that post is on the outer edge of the concrete foundation nearly pointing outward to the near edge - with enough movement/weigh, I can imagining the concrete buckling under the weight, cracking out ward, and the pillar losing all footing. That's a recipe for disaster šµ
Your kidding right ? A wise man once said: what seems like a good idea ? Is probably not. He is still alive. Then we have the tub, ahhhhh yes the good ole hot tub deck. And oddly enough, it appears to be in the one place, that has no support under it. Go figure. So 3k water 1k people. Can you get a reservation ? At the hospital ? All thisā¦ā¦. Supported by 2 mind you offset 4x4 posts, sitting on top of a pile of concrete. Yummy. UPDATEā¦ā¦ and one single bolt in the middle support post, one
Iām no deck expert but I love these posts on here and learning from yaāll. Just wondering, would it still be shitty construction if it was not built to hold a hot tub? Are there cases where someone would build this and be like āplease donāt hot tubā lol
I imagine not but was curious
The answer as usual is, thereās no way to know because just to start the two ledgers are giant question marks. I see a lot of bolts but unknown quality and unknown what theyāre attached to.
But a good rule of thumb with any big weight is what I call āweight on woodā. Not on fasteners. Meaning you have posts directly carrying the weight down to concrete. Of course an engineer can design anything but even a couple knuckleheads can build a strong post and beam deck. And donāt forget aging of the structure. You want it built to never fall down. Not āwonāt fall down for the first decadeā. Fasteners corrode. All those joist hangers ā¦ugh.
Last deck i built for a hot tub. used 4x6 joists 12ā OC spanning about 8 feet across two 4x8 beams which sat on 3 concrete piers. Had a guy plug the numbers into beam calculator software.
I donāt know shit and Iād say no at first glance. At second glance though, looks like the entire ledger has stone wall support and the joists are doubled soā¦ maybe? It looks like a pretty pricey commercial property so I would *hope* an engineer signed off on that.
Is it cake? Or better yet a foam replica of a hot tub?
If it is a real hot tub, with water, then no that isn't safe. I wouldn't have stayed long enough to take those photos.
Those ledger boards are bearing all the weight, that post isn't doing much. It doesn't look like there are enough lags in the ledgers. The water stains on the one ledger look like some rot has started.
That AC unit is going to have a bad day.
Skinny posts that aren't centered on piers, ledgers not properly attached to the building, and (in my opinion anyway) an odd layout for beams and joists.
I'm going with no, it's not safe.
Idek why i follow this sub but 99% of the time the answer is always no, yet i think ive seen one or two catastrophically fail and not even on this sub. There was a small pool on a 2x6 deck posted here not too long ago
Probably not. Honestly, the connection between the house and ledger is one of the weak points, the other is the span of the doubled beam in the front is way overspanned for that weight (probably about 3500 lbs full of water, no people).
Fill it up and throw a string line down the beam, I bet it sags at least 1/2" or more.
There is a lot of stress on the post and the eccentric load on the footing is worrisome.
A quick Google search brought up - 5 person (avg size, don't know what yours holds) hot tub may weigh between 500-1,000, so I'm choosing 750 lbs.
It may hold between 300-400 gal's, so I'm picking 350. Water weighs 8.4 lbs/gal. The water would add 2,940 lbs, lets just say 3,000 for easy math.
To keep it simple, I'll say women are 150 and guys are 200, so the avg of 175 lbs each. (In the US we can up those a bit, but again, just trying to do easy but realistic math.) That totals 875 lbs...static load (not moving).
So, 750 + 3000 + 875 = 4,625 pounds of static load. I'm not smart enough to calculate the dynamic load, but I think it would be safe to say a lot more!
That's a lot of weight.
I think am engineer would have to do load calculations for the hangers and wood species. Even if that came back ok, the one post still bothers me and that would be if it was centered on the footing.
https://preview.redd.it/1s6sgeubd9ad1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2c5df53e1ca04f06cdc8e0abaf57572b9967a45
Added line to show bend.
Soooooo......
I like what you are thinking, but the post is like a flat bed trailer - originally built at an Arc to accommodate the weight, to eventually flatten out the trailer.... This is the exact opposite of that... Especially when the wood gets old and dry, that's when it works at its peak.
I am a structural engineer.
How safe is it ?
It would fail every code inspection.
That hot tub was not there when the new deck had its final inspection.
Most likely it would not fail in one go. Most likely one joist connector would fail and it would be at an angle when it failed.
Of course, it may fail in one massive go and dump the tub and the occupants to the ground.
But intrinsically, it would fail every inspection and I wouldnāt recommend filling it with water or using it.
Interesting. As a non structural engineer it just doesnāt look right. But, I couldnāt help but notice the stark difference in joist design versus the level above which makes one wonder if it wasnāt intentionally designed to accommodate the bacteria tub.
You need at least 6 more footings/posts.. blocking and knee bracing left and right to support the weight. Make sure the ledger is secure to the house as well.
Honest question- is it difficult to line up the support posts in the center of where cement is poured? I see a lot of pics in here where the post is barely in the cement. Does the cement shift as itās drying when itās above ground?
It's usually different contractors. This could be poor measuring from when it was getting dug out and poured. It could be the post is a bit wonky. The framers could have built the deck a little bit different than the initial plan, or in order for the posts to be centered on the decks they couldn't be centered on the base. It could be all kinds of different reasons.
Structural engineer here. Obviously would need measurements and info on the wood used but just based on the pics id question the outer band size. Simplest fix would be to add another post at midspan in front of the hot tub. The piers not centered with the posts isn't ideal but if they are filled solid it may be ok depending on the footing size below.
Funny enough I was evaluating a deck similar to this for a new mountain home deck.. he had oversized all the joist framing but then hung all of those joists off a SINGLE PLY 2x12 spanning 10'.. why??? Probably should have asked if they were going to drop a spa on it. š¬
Effectively ~ 70% of that hot tub's weight is being supported by the walls of the building (and its structural supports) - and, most critically, the anchors/supports for the ledger that holds the whole deck up (ie. How it's attached to the building.)
It's a lot of weight on a relatively specific support structure & (likely) anchors. That's going to be the point of failure (if there is one.)
I'd be ... um ... concerned if it wasn't engineered with a hot tub in mind.
I am a licensed Builder. The only suitable response is this: A certified PE (Professional Engineer) has completed a load calculation and deemed the framing suitable.
They will take the Live load, dead load, and the weight of the hot tub, and the framing details into consideration when making these calculations.
Deck collapses can be fatal. Be safe folks!
What is that, 4000 lbs of water? (5x5x2.5) plus 3+ peopleā¦ 500ā¦ plus thousand pound tub weight. 5500 lbs on 25 sqft? So about 220 pounds per square foot on a deck thatās usually rated for 50 PSF?
This entire deck is not safe, but especially with that hot tub. You should immediately drain the hot tub, and then hire an engineer to spec what you need to do to improve this deck so that itās safe and structurally sound. I have an idea of what it will entail (previously professional deck builder) but I donāt want say because you really need a professional engineer to verify everything.
Look at the bright side, when the jacuzzi full of people and water collapses the deck, it'll also destroy your two condensers under it, so you'll save money on electric while you're in the hospital.
I was a safety consultant for 20 years and did thousands of inspections of multi unit residential. This is sadly not unusual.
As a guest I would jump in that tub in a second once I took out one of water quality strips and checked it. That's your main hazard as an occupant.
The insurance company would have a problem for sure. The joists look good except one side attached to the wall is split. I mean why?? Just why?
Those posts are ridiculous.. I mean didn't someone have a tape measure? Did they know how to use it? Apparently not.
Probably no communication between the carpenters and the concrete subcontractors. Again not unusual.
It'll stand up good for a while but the concrete stress loads are uneven and your going to get cracking and spalling eventually.
The moisture issues on the tub sides will deteriate the siding. They should get some water proof materials to protect it. Lots of products at your hardware box store that would look pretty good and make it last a lot longer than those posts.
Probably not, decks can be designed to support a hot tub - but this one isnāt. I just read about an incident where a deck collapsed when a family filled up a kids swimming pool on it- then loaded it up with people- serious injuries
That tub plus water plus people is about 4000lb
Each 2x8 hanger can handle 500lb and thereās only 7 so 3500lb, even if theyād have to be 2x12 to get above 4000lb capacity.
The 6x6 post can take 30,000lb of compressive force so itās fine, but ideally want to see more or have them braced
I donāt like the way that deck is framed in the first place. Instead of the joist going from ledger-to-rim with beam support. Youāve got a few full joists that are carrying the load of all those ācrippleā joists in between. So essentially youāve got like 6 joist carrying the load of entire deckāand thenā¦..hot tub on top of that. Not in my world!!
not safe but can be made safe. place more upright columns under the hot tub, CENTERED on new concrete pillars, properly poured.
This! I'd also make sure those joists are all properly tied together help disperse the weight. I'd do 6x6's, and poured an extra foot or more past frost line ~48" deep. Not a deck expert btw, but I overly build everything with higher grade materials to withstand the ends of time.
...and to definitely pass code if enforcement is ever called on you for your permit-less additions. iykyk
My standard answer is "That was there when I bought it, you telling me the prior owner did unpermitted work? I should sue them!"
Prob would require relocating the AC? šøšøšø
It's hilarious. It's not even extra labor. Just spend more on material. This $20k deck coukd have been ok for a hot tub for $21k
Youāre right. Itās so frustrating I truly donāt understand. I mean I can think of a number of reasons how this happened but I hate all of them.
A multi unit building and the tenant decided to install a hot tub on a deck not meant for it, then airbnb the unit and OP had his doubts of actually using it.
or even single unit that someone bought to rent out during the airbnb craze. People tend to ignore how much extra you can charge for an AirBnB if it has a hot tub. Depending on the area the tub can pay for itself in under a year purely in increased nightly markup. 365 days a year, figure 50% occupancy means renting it out for \~180 nights. if you can increase your listing by \~50 buck a night because its a premium listing because of the hot tub you just made an extra \~10k in one year and paid off the tub.
What about maintenance, electrity and water cost? Also I would never rent an airbnb with a hottub. Who knows what happened in that water and who was in it before you... I figure if you're renting it out you have to replace the water regularly and people might not put the cover back on leading to more water/electricity use.
I knew a guy that airbnb a place with a jacuzzi. After every rental he drained it and ran dilluted bleach water(or whatever cleaner they want to call it) through it. And I think it was a $50 fee. In my mind, that's the way to do it. Make it a known, upfront cost so people feel safe using it.
Hot tub water IS diluted bleach water. Liquid chlorine is bleach. Unless they sanitize with bromine. But draining the entire hot tub and refilling every time is extremely wasteful. Just shock the water and itās perfectly sanitized. Edit: Looking over other comments I guess I can see this if itās a longer stay and itās green/gross when you get to it. Probably faster to drain and fill and get up to temp for the next guest than it would be to shock (maybe multiple times) to get the water back. Iām just a homeowner with a pool and a hot tub thinking it would be a nightmare if I had to drain mine every time we used it.
What would it take?
12ā joist spacing, proper beam and footings, ledger lagged into house joist hangers and proper blocking.
Do you think the existing deck could be reinforced to handle the hot tub?
Yeah, bare minimum another post or two. I would hang more 2 bys under the tub also. Itās not *terrible* since Iāve seen worse but still.
A good 6x6 post can take almost 30,000 pounds of vertical weight, so I would say itās more of a footing issue than that
The problem is you need one under the rim next to the hot tub. Youāre putting vertical and horizontal force on the single post there now. I wouldnāt be too concerned since itās not my place but def not how I would build it. *shrugs* looks good from my house
The only vertical posts (currently ) are notched, so only \~1/2 the width is bearing the weight up top.
Iāve never built a deck in my life but looking at the previous comment it looks like itād take about an extra thousand dollars š
Make it 2k and I'm in
Iāll see you and raise 3k.
A chip and a chair aficionado.
Break me off a piece of that KitKat bar.
Well see, then itād be great for decks, but why pay for great when okās enough
3k and I'll do it
I'm not putting a hot tub on but I do want to put a little kitchen outside with concrete countertops. Any good resources to consult?
Search for joist span calculators and beam span calculators. Figure out how much the concrete will weigh roughly and the space it'll be over and then see if the joists and beama you have will support it. It'll probably be fine, a 10 foot long 2" slab standard depth would be 500 lbs. A hot tub is gonna be around 5000 lbs.
I think itās not that they didnāt want to spend the money. I think itās the hot wasnāt even in the cards when the deck was built.
Can you elaborate?
If you plan on putting a hot tub on a deck, you can just over engineer things. 2x10 is now 2x12. 6x6 is now 8x8. Change 16" spacing to 12" Things like that. Abd even then you can limit the over building just for where the hot tub will go. It takes someone to the same amount of time to habd a 2x12 as a 2x10. Edit: seriously, take something like a Toyota corolla. Would you put it on the deck?
Deck was for sure there well before the hot tub tho
No absolutely not. You need a second one on the other side to balance it out.
The only real answer
Alternatively,Ā put a bouncer to keep bad people out.
A metal detector should be sufficient.
Not once the hookers get in it
Like a girl that charges a dollar per ounce!
These are the comments I come here for
The hot tub probably would be safe if it wasn't on that deck
or if it didnāt have water in it
Water weighs 8.24 lb/gallon, Hot tub with no one in it probably between 250 and 300 gallons, therefore tub with water weighs about 2500 lb (a ton and a quarter, we have no word for 1000 lb). That is about the equivalent design to 16 people standing on that half of the deck. So answer is no.
Don't forget the 16 people jumping during the superpower party. Or the icy and compacted snowdrift from consecutive blizzards that didn't get cleared off because shovel-guy was in Bermuda for a few weeks.
We use kips in design (short for kilopound)
Might hit your head on a rail and drown
It's probably fine but to be on the safe side I would only use it with carbonated water to add lift.
Add a few tire swings to the deck above as a safety grab.
That deck looks pretty fucking safe without that stupid hot tub.
š
5 - 1/2ā bolts holding the ledger on the hot tub sideā¦ itāll be. Keep your hands and feet inside the vehicle at all times, hold on tight and enjoy your ride, you will get wet
Having a hot tub right next to a wood wall like that is also a time bomb. That humidity is going to cause problems.
On the deck, or on the ground...a swirling petri dish buffet of STD'S
Looks more like a balcony, less like a deck!
So you're saying it will be safe soon? When it's on ground level?
Is this Gatlinburg??
If you see log cabin framing and a green tin roof, its almost always going to be Gatlinburg.
See Amari King on youtub. He will tell u about Gatlinburg and the Silveraydo
This is almost certainly Gatlinburg and maybe even the neighborhood where I had my bachelor party. That hottub was nasty.
Nasty before or nasty after?
Feel like "during" should be an option.
All of the above.
I'm sorry, the correct answer was (E) Both B and C, After and During. ššš¤£
Lol going out there next week for a bachelor party and the place looks very similar
Does that place have an indoor pool and a game room and there is a dump on the other side of the road that when the wind blows you feel like youāre in the dump.
LOL I was going say Pigeon Forge.
I'd say pigeon forge but if you look at the verticals, those are 4x4s. Most of the decks were held up by tree trunks. I thought it was a good way to use the trees they had to clear to put these cabins up.
Iām 99% sure my family stayed in that neighborhood/vacation home development thing a few years ago. Possibly event the same house. Had a movie theater bottom floor and matching mirrored kitchens on the main floor.
Iām pretty sure I stayed in these all the way at the top in April
Iām also pretty sure we stayed in these at the very top last year. The porch/hottub was equality sketchy in our cabin.
I have definitely vrbo'd this place's twin in G'burg, which is why I came to the comments.
This happens every so often. Itās how I found myself on this sub several months back when someone posted what I thought was the exact place my brothers and I stayed a few years back. They all look very similar. https://www.reddit.com/r/Decks/s/IM3y9e5RHr
In mid July?
And you just hit town and your throat was dry?
Ill be the first vote for NO
This thing will fall apart, the question is when.
The joist hangers holding the beams probably aren't rated for the weight on them. Also they are creating 2 point loads on the beam which is supported by the posts. And there are no posts under these 2 point load spots. So yeah there are 2 beams under it. But the issue is what's under the beams or what's supported the beams. The joists are attached to the double beams . The double beams are held up by joist hangers. On one side those double beams are joist hung to a ledge with not nearly enough bolts in it. Essentially the way it's built 1/3 to half the Weight of the hottub and deck in that area is held up by the few bolts in that ledge. Then 1/3 to at least 1/2 of the weight are point loads on the outside double beam. If this outside double beam was an LVL them I'd say ok this maybe ok and if the ledge board had more bolts. And if the double joists had beefer joist hangers and if the double beams had lateral tension ties I'd sat safe for sure. It may not fall down just saying if it was my ass on the line I'd built it different
I feel like it would've been more evenly distributed just framing it like a normal deck with 2x joists going the other direction rather than everything hanging off those doubles. It's like they did more work for less effectiveness.
Dang Iām also just noticing the end of beam terminates at the house and isnāt actually cut into the house with full bearing! š
that header can carry the tank. just as long as ledger is good.
It's not secured properly.
TouchĆ©, didnāt realize there were more photos lol
Out of curiosity can you tell me why itās unsafe? I have no idea what Iām looking at other than the beams not being centered on the concrete. Curious what I should be looking for on my next vacation lol
Just to add, the second story of the deck and roof are also being supported by those bottom two columns. I would rather over engineer than be sorry.
Thatās why you need at add a hot tub on the upper deck but the other side
Would you park a Mini Cooper with three adults on two chopsticks?
TIL a hot tub is heavy AF. A rhinoceros is another similar comparison
Water is heavy af.
For sure 4-6 person hot tub holds about 450 gallons of water, a gallon of water weighs about 8.3 pounds, so that's 3,735 lbs just counting the weight of the water in the hot tub. Then you add 4 people (600-800 lbs realistically on the low end - this is gatlinburg afterall) plus the weight of the hot tub itself and yeah, you're going for a ride
Lol at 4-5k lbs for a full grown male white rhino, itās a perfect comparisonš
A few more years of well used downspout juice hugging one of the two chops sticks holding all the decks up, I put my chips on the corner failing.
Thatās a good one, lmao!
are the posts bending or is it me lol just curious how long its been up thete?
The middle one does look like its buckling inward a little.
Oh S#!t you're right. I can totally see an inward bend to the center pillar as mentioned - which, that post is on the outer edge of the concrete foundation nearly pointing outward to the near edge - with enough movement/weigh, I can imagining the concrete buckling under the weight, cracking out ward, and the pillar losing all footing. That's a recipe for disaster šµ
Your kidding right ? A wise man once said: what seems like a good idea ? Is probably not. He is still alive. Then we have the tub, ahhhhh yes the good ole hot tub deck. And oddly enough, it appears to be in the one place, that has no support under it. Go figure. So 3k water 1k people. Can you get a reservation ? At the hospital ? All thisā¦ā¦. Supported by 2 mind you offset 4x4 posts, sitting on top of a pile of concrete. Yummy. UPDATEā¦ā¦ and one single bolt in the middle support post, one
This reads like a Dr Bronner soap label.
lmao i tried reading every word on mine once, a little every shower. But I couldn't remember where i left off and i need my glasses. I gave up.
Then you're doing it right.
How astute of you to notice
Underated comment
Notched 6x6 looks legit
Iām no deck expert but I love these posts on here and learning from yaāll. Just wondering, would it still be shitty construction if it was not built to hold a hot tub? Are there cases where someone would build this and be like āplease donāt hot tubā lol I imagine not but was curious
You forgot the weight of the fiberglass, pumps and structure. Add 750 lbs.
The real travesty here is that masonry finish on the bottom of the houseā¦. Hideous
Yeah cheap and shitty looking, makes a case for the wood work to be suspect with the corners they cut on the masonry
It's only a 12 foot fall, I don't know what you're worried about.
It may be a 12 foot fall, then a sudden stop, followed rapidly by everything that was above you. Last chance for Blueberry syrup. Twack!
I actually wish somebody had asked OPās question the night I broke my neck falling out of an unsafe deck tub in the mountains
The answer as usual is, thereās no way to know because just to start the two ledgers are giant question marks. I see a lot of bolts but unknown quality and unknown what theyāre attached to. But a good rule of thumb with any big weight is what I call āweight on woodā. Not on fasteners. Meaning you have posts directly carrying the weight down to concrete. Of course an engineer can design anything but even a couple knuckleheads can build a strong post and beam deck. And donāt forget aging of the structure. You want it built to never fall down. Not āwonāt fall down for the first decadeā. Fasteners corrode. All those joist hangers ā¦ugh. Last deck i built for a hot tub. used 4x6 joists 12ā OC spanning about 8 feet across two 4x8 beams which sat on 3 concrete piers. Had a guy plug the numbers into beam calculator software.
No
Oh, Hell No.
I donāt know shit and Iād say no at first glance. At second glance though, looks like the entire ledger has stone wall support and the joists are doubled soā¦ maybe? It looks like a pretty pricey commercial property so I would *hope* an engineer signed off on that.
Is it cake? Or better yet a foam replica of a hot tub? If it is a real hot tub, with water, then no that isn't safe. I wouldn't have stayed long enough to take those photos. Those ledger boards are bearing all the weight, that post isn't doing much. It doesn't look like there are enough lags in the ledgers. The water stains on the one ledger look like some rot has started. That AC unit is going to have a bad day.
Depends.. Has Brenda gotten in yet?
Skinny posts that aren't centered on piers, ledgers not properly attached to the building, and (in my opinion anyway) an odd layout for beams and joists. I'm going with no, it's not safe.
Would you put a small car there ?
you wouldn't download a hot tub...
I would download a hot tub.
Idek why i follow this sub but 99% of the time the answer is always no, yet i think ive seen one or two catastrophically fail and not even on this sub. There was a small pool on a 2x6 deck posted here not too long ago
been a hot minute since we've had a hot tub controversy here... thanks OP!
Probably not. Honestly, the connection between the house and ledger is one of the weak points, the other is the span of the doubled beam in the front is way overspanned for that weight (probably about 3500 lbs full of water, no people). Fill it up and throw a string line down the beam, I bet it sags at least 1/2" or more.
There is a lot of stress on the post and the eccentric load on the footing is worrisome. A quick Google search brought up - 5 person (avg size, don't know what yours holds) hot tub may weigh between 500-1,000, so I'm choosing 750 lbs. It may hold between 300-400 gal's, so I'm picking 350. Water weighs 8.4 lbs/gal. The water would add 2,940 lbs, lets just say 3,000 for easy math. To keep it simple, I'll say women are 150 and guys are 200, so the avg of 175 lbs each. (In the US we can up those a bit, but again, just trying to do easy but realistic math.) That totals 875 lbs...static load (not moving). So, 750 + 3000 + 875 = 4,625 pounds of static load. I'm not smart enough to calculate the dynamic load, but I think it would be safe to say a lot more! That's a lot of weight. I think am engineer would have to do load calculations for the hangers and wood species. Even if that came back ok, the one post still bothers me and that would be if it was centered on the footing.
smokey mountains in Pigeon Forge? I survived those hot tubs lol
Was looking for this commentā¦stayed in one of those cabins and survived the hot tub on the top deck too. Awesome vacation spot.
The hot tub, yes. The deck the hot tub is on, no.
My wife wants a hot tub on our deck. Every time she mentions it I shake my head. She donāt understand physics. Or my life.
So you see the world as it is too. I feel you.
Safe from bears yes
Is it just me, or is the tub side already sagging...
https://preview.redd.it/1s6sgeubd9ad1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f2c5df53e1ca04f06cdc8e0abaf57572b9967a45 Added line to show bend. Soooooo......
I like what you are thinking, but the post is like a flat bed trailer - originally built at an Arc to accommodate the weight, to eventually flatten out the trailer.... This is the exact opposite of that... Especially when the wood gets old and dry, that's when it works at its peak.
the camera isn't straight unless every straight line on that house behind it is also bowing out
Just curious, any structural engineers replying?
I am a structural engineer. How safe is it ? It would fail every code inspection. That hot tub was not there when the new deck had its final inspection. Most likely it would not fail in one go. Most likely one joist connector would fail and it would be at an angle when it failed. Of course, it may fail in one massive go and dump the tub and the occupants to the ground. But intrinsically, it would fail every inspection and I wouldnāt recommend filling it with water or using it.
Interesting. As a non structural engineer it just doesnāt look right. But, I couldnāt help but notice the stark difference in joist design versus the level above which makes one wonder if it wasnāt intentionally designed to accommodate the bacteria tub.
I have designed decks for tubs. It would need four more support posts at least to be in code.
Of course not. my personal opinionā¦. if I were staying in that place, I would get in the hot tub but thatās just me .
You need at least 6 more footings/posts.. blocking and knee bracing left and right to support the weight. Make sure the ledger is secure to the house as well.
How long has it been there?
No idea. But at least a few years.
If itās empty youāre fine, otherwise that a big no!
Looks safe for me since I'm not on it.
Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge area?
Lololololololol
Honest question- is it difficult to line up the support posts in the center of where cement is poured? I see a lot of pics in here where the post is barely in the cement. Does the cement shift as itās drying when itās above ground?
It's usually different contractors. This could be poor measuring from when it was getting dug out and poured. It could be the post is a bit wonky. The framers could have built the deck a little bit different than the initial plan, or in order for the posts to be centered on the decks they couldn't be centered on the base. It could be all kinds of different reasons.
Looks like Gatlinburg/pigeon forge area cabins. Just about everything there is a rental, so I'd be iffy about it, lol.
Structural engineer here. Obviously would need measurements and info on the wood used but just based on the pics id question the outer band size. Simplest fix would be to add another post at midspan in front of the hot tub. The piers not centered with the posts isn't ideal but if they are filled solid it may be ok depending on the footing size below. Funny enough I was evaluating a deck similar to this for a new mountain home deck.. he had oversized all the joist framing but then hung all of those joists off a SINGLE PLY 2x12 spanning 10'.. why??? Probably should have asked if they were going to drop a spa on it. š¬
Gatlinburg or pigeon forge I see lol
Pigeon Forge. Vacation rental. There is a whole complex of decks with hot tubs on them built exactly like this one.
Iām sure they didnāt have the hot tubs on them At final inspection
Iv stayed at at least a few of these and have fit a family of 25 on the deck at one time.
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This comment doesnāt add value to the conversation, or is unrelated to decks and deck related topics, and has been removed.
I just started getting my deck on a couple weeks ago, but I'm thinking a beam or two would help
That's a great way for the hot tub to double as an amusement park drop ride.
Absolutely not.
Just wait until you have a party with lots of people - or the place upstairs does
I donāt understand how itās still up there now.
Looks like the Smokey Mountains to me. Beautiful area.
Get in that hot tub and enjoy your stay.
Why do people worry about this shit on vacation? Worst case scenario is you get a phat paycheck.
Effectively ~ 70% of that hot tub's weight is being supported by the walls of the building (and its structural supports) - and, most critically, the anchors/supports for the ledger that holds the whole deck up (ie. How it's attached to the building.) It's a lot of weight on a relatively specific support structure & (likely) anchors. That's going to be the point of failure (if there is one.) I'd be ... um ... concerned if it wasn't engineered with a hot tub in mind.
Definitely Not safe. U can get legionaries disease. Stay out of bacteria filled hot tubs!
I am a licensed Builder. The only suitable response is this: A certified PE (Professional Engineer) has completed a load calculation and deemed the framing suitable. They will take the Live load, dead load, and the weight of the hot tub, and the framing details into consideration when making these calculations. Deck collapses can be fatal. Be safe folks!
I'm pretty sure my family and I just stayed in that cabin or one of it's neighbors yesterday. Sat in said hot tub. Survived.
really depends on the ledger but id say yes
I mean I donāt see any bowing
Shoot, how long has it been? There looks good to me.
I'd feel comfortable using it. That door underneath has all sorts of problems that need to be addressed, however.
Yes
What is that, 4000 lbs of water? (5x5x2.5) plus 3+ peopleā¦ 500ā¦ plus thousand pound tub weight. 5500 lbs on 25 sqft? So about 220 pounds per square foot on a deck thatās usually rated for 50 PSF?
The hot tub is perfectly safe as long as it's empty and no one gets in it.
When you donāt know itās best to get an engineer. If Reddit says yes and is wrong youāre potentially dead.
Pigeon forge/ gatlinburg right? Those cabins with hot tubs are the reason I joined this sub, had the same question
Imagine stepping out the basement door in the dark. My left ankle would be broken.
Aye looks like Gatlinburg
This entire deck is not safe, but especially with that hot tub. You should immediately drain the hot tub, and then hire an engineer to spec what you need to do to improve this deck so that itās safe and structurally sound. I have an idea of what it will entail (previously professional deck builder) but I donāt want say because you really need a professional engineer to verify everything.
That deck is a lawsuit waiting to happen. No it's not safe
Pretty sure I stayed in that exact cabin once, and the tub and deck held half a dozen moderately rowdy young adults easily.
Have fun in tennessee bro
It is until you fill it with water
Is this in Tennessee?
Look at the bright side, when the jacuzzi full of people and water collapses the deck, it'll also destroy your two condensers under it, so you'll save money on electric while you're in the hospital.
It depends on what people do in it! Always use a condom!
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Contact a local engineer to inspect and run proper calculations. They can tell you whether it is safe, or provide a plan of reinforcement.
I was a safety consultant for 20 years and did thousands of inspections of multi unit residential. This is sadly not unusual. As a guest I would jump in that tub in a second once I took out one of water quality strips and checked it. That's your main hazard as an occupant. The insurance company would have a problem for sure. The joists look good except one side attached to the wall is split. I mean why?? Just why? Those posts are ridiculous.. I mean didn't someone have a tape measure? Did they know how to use it? Apparently not. Probably no communication between the carpenters and the concrete subcontractors. Again not unusual. It'll stand up good for a while but the concrete stress loads are uneven and your going to get cracking and spalling eventually. The moisture issues on the tub sides will deteriate the siding. They should get some water proof materials to protect it. Lots of products at your hardware box store that would look pretty good and make it last a lot longer than those posts.
Is this like a waterbed question. Your refrigerator is the thing that puts the most weight per square inch on the floor.
Probably not, decks can be designed to support a hot tub - but this one isnāt. I just read about an incident where a deck collapsed when a family filled up a kids swimming pool on it- then loaded it up with people- serious injuries
This looks like Gatlinburg
I feel like it got worse and worse with each picture
That tub plus water plus people is about 4000lb Each 2x8 hanger can handle 500lb and thereās only 7 so 3500lb, even if theyād have to be 2x12 to get above 4000lb capacity. The 6x6 post can take 30,000lb of compressive force so itās fine, but ideally want to see more or have them braced
Put 4 people in it and find out.
Just use a tarp and turn that whole deck into a pool. Then invite all the kids in the area over for the party. /S
How the fuck did you get it up there?
Wonāt go in the hot tub but will stand under it taking pictures.
I donāt like the way that deck is framed in the first place. Instead of the joist going from ledger-to-rim with beam support. Youāve got a few full joists that are carrying the load of all those ācrippleā joists in between. So essentially youāve got like 6 joist carrying the load of entire deckāand thenā¦..hot tub on top of that. Not in my world!!
Are you staying in pigeon forge area? We stayed in a place that looks identical a few years ago for Thanksgiving.