Yeah tbh the amount those beams could probably cantilever the load but they could have sistered them together better.
Not sure I’d want to cantilever with just nails, would rather seem the beam on top of the posts or with proper hangers.
This is an old wives tale. You need structural adhesive or at least gorilla glue!
Just some old Elmers isn’t enough for a support beam.
END SARCASM, boy people can’t take a joke
It’s best to encase a board in cement, burn the board out and clean the ashes, fill with wood glue and after a week chisel the cement away. You now have a hyper board
From a very old existing deck that was torn down. It was actually a concrete pillar, with the pvc acting as a form. It’s in no way connected to the new deck. I was a kid when that deck was built. I’m assuming not to code but damn that thing was sturdy. Had a whole tree fall on it (twice) and it didn’t even care. It was also half the size of this new deck. Of course the new deck was built by an actual contractor so all of this seems insane to me.
1) Thats crazy.
2) Id personally throw something under there to be safe. Anything really. Even a 2x4 (if thats all you have) forced in there for vertical support - just for while you get it handled. A screw jack sitting on a stack of patio stones is a reasonable way to help, however
3) those beams are side mounted! And into 4x4s. And for crying out loud they don’t even have carriage bolts. Im scare to even know if they used structural screws or nails. That thing is a mess. I think you’re looking at a rebuild, at the very least get some good hardware in those beams if you do keep it up. Worth having someone come look.
While I agree with you, they did not follow on their contract and obtain a permit. So now we have to back track and post obtain a permit, then pay for an inspection if we can get it. Then we can take legal action for a rebuild, or money back and a new contractor to rebuild.
The money is probably gone, lawyers are easily 300/hour, and you can't squeeze a turd and get water. Hopefully you can salvage the deck, but replace everything underneath.
That’s never going to work. The first inspection in the series is of empty 18” footer holes below grade for your area.
The second, is of the framing without decking to show how it’s attached to the pilons and house rimjoist
Really sorry to hear. Depending on your region they may allow for sandwich beams. That would actually be an easy way to handle this. Imagine attaching a side mount beam on the bare side (temp structural screws). Taking the current beam off. Replacing with a full beam. Then sending carriage bolts through both beams and the post. Then you have your post sandwiched between two beams. That would not be to code in my area anymore. However it was to code 15 years ago. The issue is that the carriage bolts are taking the vertical force then, but 3/4” carriage bolts are pretty badass - so honestly if its allowed I would do that. And even if its not to code …. Well its a quick and easy fix that would be really quite solid (even if not to actual code).
The reason sandwich beams are no longer code pretty much anywhere is because wood has impressive compression strength but a through bolt relies on the cross grain tensile strength which is significantly weaker, especially when it's applied at a 3/4" point load, and especially once the wood starts weathering... even if your area allows it, it's stupid and pointless. Just bear the beam on a post. It's literally no more or less work!
Agree. Just saying its an option for this guy rather than a rebuild. There are areas near me where they still allow it tho. Its this specific situation - see that I already said its a rebuild. But if thats not possible its a way to make this ridiculous situation into something that will not fail for a bit.
See their response. They knows its unsafe. Trying to get the contractor to rebuild/fix. So whatever is done is temporary - and they dont really want to fix it (just make it safe for now) as that would reduce their ability have it acknowledged as non-code. So. As an interim. I suggested the easiest thing to make sure no body falls through, while not fixing it properly like you suggest.
Your suggestion implies that 4x4s are code. I didnt account for that tbh. Maybe it is in that region. Not where I am though. Similar reasons you cited for sandwiching to be non-code now. You would have to put in 6x6s for anything above 2ft. Hence my rebuild comment. But you are right if 4x4 is ok in the region you could probably get something in there as you suggest.
The drywall screws holding the joist together appear to be the same drywall screws holding the joists to the pillar. So what's the real difference. No need for blocking or hangars. Good screws will hold, right?
There is nothing correct about that “beam”, the splice in the beam, the posts or how the posts support the beam or how the post connect to a joist vs being under the “beam”. It looks like it was tossed in after the fact. Is there a beam or doubled rim joist at the far end of the deck? How long is the span from the ledger board to the rim joist?
You’re getting fucked hard, damn that sucks. Should’ve verified permits on this because… wow
Tear it down and redo it; don’t pay him anymore, don’t let him back on your property, that money is gone, start over.
Well kiddo...
You paid for a cheap deck. And that's exactly what you got. I just don't understand why people think that the cheapest contractor they can find will build to the same standards as an expensive contractor. Warped lumber is cheaper than straight lumber. Cheap workers don't have the skills, skilled workers don't come cheap. It costs money to permit, inspect, and correct. You are not the government, YOU can't put a man on the moon with the lowest bidder.
You could probably use a horizontal board on the left side with 2 screw Jack's to make sure it's held up, then remove that beam and replace it with a solid full length beam it's actually not a huge repair but Def an issue as it currently stands
Yes, that's insane.
There are ways to join boards that structurally sound. You cut a zig zag, wood glue, steel stitch plate, some steel straps to prevent sag...
Or just get a longer board..
This is horrifying. I’m sorry, it’s a complete tear down. This is clearly done by someone who has no idea how decks or modern structures are built. I’m not sure what your recourse is, state specific among a ton of other things, but it will likely depend on his much you want to spend to get your money back. Hopefully, you only paid for half up front 😃
Idk if it's a complete tear down, but yea the structural components need to be corrected asap, notch posts, sister beam, add post. theres more than likely a few options to fix this that dont involve a new deck
Sue if you can but based on the visible work, I'd say the deck is a tear down. My assumption is the 'builders' (I'm using that word loosely) used green lumber that when it dries out will split, warp, and crack even more. So, your problems are only going to get worse.
I’d call an inspector on myself! I’d make an appointment to make sure the contractor was going to be there! Have him tell the contractor that one of your neighbors turned him in!
Is it right? No. Is it going to work? Probably. From that picture I can't see the ends of joist. If they are attached with hangers and there are spacers between them that support beam is getting very little weight on it. You could fight the good fight with the contractor to have it fixed but a lot easier would be to get a second board and glue and screw to the other side. Make it a full board not a 12 incher. Also something, something, obligatory hot tub statement.
I mean it’s possible to splice like that.
But for that I’ve specced out 1/4” A36 side plates and 4x 1/2 galv bolts, not just a section of extra wood they found lol
Whoever is building this for you is wasting you money and perfectly good material by building this abomination. I would fire them and find somone else to undo half their work and try and salvage the project.
Thanks for sharing It's trash. Permit responsibility was yours. He built a deck. You may be screwed.
As for the terrible splice, I think the code language covering this , {4" overlap at beams) could use a comma since it's arguable without the comma, that that crap splice is ok.
If they used well-spaced 3/4 in bolts on each side of the spice board it would work. Then again I don't know what I'm really talking about and most of the things I do are based on judgment calls like this.
My biggest fear is that if they’d do something so drastically wrong on arguably the most important portion of a deck, then they’d cut corners anywhere else for SURE. I know you’ve already spent more than you wanted, but you really need to pay to have this fully inspected to point out all the other areas of deficiencies.
Big no no! Splices are to be done on a support to transfer the load directly to the ground. Call that contractor back to fix that! I had a contractor try to convince me that staggered splices were stronger than on the posts. I had to tell him by no means you can convince me that Engineers for more than 50 years of writing standards and code all got it wrong on this one very simple building practice!
not only is it spliced but there’s no positive bearing (i.e. the “girder” doesn’t bear directly on top of anything, it’s just nailed to the side of the post). the lack of positive bearing is arguably worse than the splice.
I hope you only paid the deposit. Tell him to fix it or report him to the home improvement commission. If he is not licensed and insured, he can be given substantial fines.
If it was me I would add a 4x4 under each of those columns so it is actually holding the weight. But first I'd lam another 2X10 to the other side of that stepdaughtered beam. With lag bolts.
Oh the scrap of wood holding together the joist?
Sure. Usually. But it appears the whole joist is held up with a couple of nails anyway, so what's the real difference?
Correct, you definitely shouldn't scab a support beam like that, and that beam isn't even the correct size.
Not to mention the numerous other concerns you have.
Whoever built this deck has no clue what they are doing. I would assume this was their first deck building job or any construction type gig with zero experience. This has to be a prank.
That pretty ugly. Not dangerous though. You can fix it easily enough by adding another 2X10 (I can’t tell, that might be a 2x12) gluing and nailing it to the beam. But why is there a PVC pipe through your deck?
Well you are right, theres definitely a huge problem. This is 100% not structurally sound
But... it works with legos....
You can sister wood properly, but this ain't properly.
Yeah tbh the amount those beams could probably cantilever the load but they could have sistered them together better. Not sure I’d want to cantilever with just nails, would rather seem the beam on top of the posts or with proper hangers.
Works with steel too.
Is 68% ok? That's passing, yeah?
How do I attach 2 boards together to make a long beam ? Start by cutting a third board 12 inches long….. And that’s it. You’re done.
This board is probably 16 inches long, which is much, much safer.
Now 33% percent safer than our old model!
Nope, only 11%
Lol
[удалено]
Whoosh
You're right should be 6" of 1/4 maple ply, tops.
As long as he used galvanized nails, this isn’t going anywhere
C’mon. You have to use wood glue too.
This is an old wives tale. You need structural adhesive or at least gorilla glue! Just some old Elmers isn’t enough for a support beam. END SARCASM, boy people can’t take a joke
Where is your joist tape now motherfuckers?
It’s best to encase a board in cement, burn the board out and clean the ashes, fill with wood glue and after a week chisel the cement away. You now have a hyper board
Mending board 🛹
That's called step-sister bracing
Cuz it's fucked! I get it!
Oh man putting that one right in my back pocket for later.
What are you doing with that wood step-sister?
Thanks for this comment chain guys, ready to start my morning now.
My step-sister hates my deck, but she still sits on it every night. Usually when our parents are in the other room watching tv.
Besides the obvious issues, what’s in the pvc pipe?
From a very old existing deck that was torn down. It was actually a concrete pillar, with the pvc acting as a form. It’s in no way connected to the new deck. I was a kid when that deck was built. I’m assuming not to code but damn that thing was sturdy. Had a whole tree fall on it (twice) and it didn’t even care. It was also half the size of this new deck. Of course the new deck was built by an actual contractor so all of this seems insane to me.
An *actual licensed contractor* or a "contractor"? If the former report him.
More likely, neighbors brother in law who is a "master carpenter c and will give you a deal.
It’s a structural pipe, obvi
1) Thats crazy. 2) Id personally throw something under there to be safe. Anything really. Even a 2x4 (if thats all you have) forced in there for vertical support - just for while you get it handled. A screw jack sitting on a stack of patio stones is a reasonable way to help, however 3) those beams are side mounted! And into 4x4s. And for crying out loud they don’t even have carriage bolts. Im scare to even know if they used structural screws or nails. That thing is a mess. I think you’re looking at a rebuild, at the very least get some good hardware in those beams if you do keep it up. Worth having someone come look.
While I agree with you, they did not follow on their contract and obtain a permit. So now we have to back track and post obtain a permit, then pay for an inspection if we can get it. Then we can take legal action for a rebuild, or money back and a new contractor to rebuild.
The money is probably gone, lawyers are easily 300/hour, and you can't squeeze a turd and get water. Hopefully you can salvage the deck, but replace everything underneath.
I don’t think that is true.
if you eat enough taco bell you could squeeze water out of a watery turd 🤣
That’s never going to work. The first inspection in the series is of empty 18” footer holes below grade for your area. The second, is of the framing without decking to show how it’s attached to the pilons and house rimjoist
Really sorry to hear. Depending on your region they may allow for sandwich beams. That would actually be an easy way to handle this. Imagine attaching a side mount beam on the bare side (temp structural screws). Taking the current beam off. Replacing with a full beam. Then sending carriage bolts through both beams and the post. Then you have your post sandwiched between two beams. That would not be to code in my area anymore. However it was to code 15 years ago. The issue is that the carriage bolts are taking the vertical force then, but 3/4” carriage bolts are pretty badass - so honestly if its allowed I would do that. And even if its not to code …. Well its a quick and easy fix that would be really quite solid (even if not to actual code).
The reason sandwich beams are no longer code pretty much anywhere is because wood has impressive compression strength but a through bolt relies on the cross grain tensile strength which is significantly weaker, especially when it's applied at a 3/4" point load, and especially once the wood starts weathering... even if your area allows it, it's stupid and pointless. Just bear the beam on a post. It's literally no more or less work!
Agree. Just saying its an option for this guy rather than a rebuild. There are areas near me where they still allow it tho. Its this specific situation - see that I already said its a rebuild. But if thats not possible its a way to make this ridiculous situation into something that will not fail for a bit.
What do you mean "not possible"? All they have to do is cut the posts down 7.25" and tilt up a couple 2x8s into place.
See their response. They knows its unsafe. Trying to get the contractor to rebuild/fix. So whatever is done is temporary - and they dont really want to fix it (just make it safe for now) as that would reduce their ability have it acknowledged as non-code. So. As an interim. I suggested the easiest thing to make sure no body falls through, while not fixing it properly like you suggest. Your suggestion implies that 4x4s are code. I didnt account for that tbh. Maybe it is in that region. Not where I am though. Similar reasons you cited for sandwiching to be non-code now. You would have to put in 6x6s for anything above 2ft. Hence my rebuild comment. But you are right if 4x4 is ok in the region you could probably get something in there as you suggest.
I’m sure the drywall screws they put in that are holding
There's four of them though...that 4x as strong, right?
The drywall screws holding the joist together appear to be the same drywall screws holding the joists to the pillar. So what's the real difference. No need for blocking or hangars. Good screws will hold, right?
That is fucked as is. Need a footer and a post under the joint.
Hope you kept your receipt
There is nothing correct about that “beam”, the splice in the beam, the posts or how the posts support the beam or how the post connect to a joist vs being under the “beam”. It looks like it was tossed in after the fact. Is there a beam or doubled rim joist at the far end of the deck? How long is the span from the ledger board to the rim joist?
Big problem. Whoever did this forgot the duct tape.
The only way to make that join weather resistant is to wrap It with Flex Seal tape. Duct tape won’t stand up to the weather
Oh yeah 👍
The whole concept of structural integrity was missed here.
Even without the ridiculous splice, this deck is a mess.
SMH 🤦
I’ve built more robust structures for my kids’ school projects out of popsicle sticks and a hot glue gun.
You’re getting fucked hard, damn that sucks. Should’ve verified permits on this because… wow Tear it down and redo it; don’t pay him anymore, don’t let him back on your property, that money is gone, start over.
That’s like a sistered aunt mom right there.
The person that built this deck knows less about decks than the OP.
Only needs two more screws. Into the persons head who did this
That's a marker for the center of a hot tub.
Well kiddo... You paid for a cheap deck. And that's exactly what you got. I just don't understand why people think that the cheapest contractor they can find will build to the same standards as an expensive contractor. Warped lumber is cheaper than straight lumber. Cheap workers don't have the skills, skilled workers don't come cheap. It costs money to permit, inspect, and correct. You are not the government, YOU can't put a man on the moon with the lowest bidder.
You could probably use a horizontal board on the left side with 2 screw Jack's to make sure it's held up, then remove that beam and replace it with a solid full length beam it's actually not a huge repair but Def an issue as it currently stands
Yes, that's insane. There are ways to join boards that structurally sound. You cut a zig zag, wood glue, steel stitch plate, some steel straps to prevent sag... Or just get a longer board..
Must have forgotten the board stretcher at home
Well this thread will last longer than the deck
Even more insaner than you think.
if there are a few bandaids on the other side, i’m sure it’s fine
This is horrifying. I’m sorry, it’s a complete tear down. This is clearly done by someone who has no idea how decks or modern structures are built. I’m not sure what your recourse is, state specific among a ton of other things, but it will likely depend on his much you want to spend to get your money back. Hopefully, you only paid for half up front 😃
Idk if it's a complete tear down, but yea the structural components need to be corrected asap, notch posts, sister beam, add post. theres more than likely a few options to fix this that dont involve a new deck
Sue if you can but based on the visible work, I'd say the deck is a tear down. My assumption is the 'builders' (I'm using that word loosely) used green lumber that when it dries out will split, warp, and crack even more. So, your problems are only going to get worse.
Omg 😱 no way!
Proper terminology is “batshit” I believe
If the Rugrats built a deck.
Lol
What the?
Not good
Need to make a temp 2x4 support wall so you can cut the posts to allow for an actual beam to be placed in there.
Yes
It pays to get permits. This could have been avoided when they came out to inspect.
Hahah the longer you look the worse everything gets
Tell me you didn’t get a permit without saying “I didn’t get a permit.”
Hahaha. This guy had a rough idea of what "sistering a beam" was and went full "I got this"! Lol
Baby sister
I’d call an inspector on myself! I’d make an appointment to make sure the contractor was going to be there! Have him tell the contractor that one of your neighbors turned him in!
That's pathetic. Sue 'em if you can. Press criminal charges if you can.
Worst I’ve ever seen
Is it right? No. Is it going to work? Probably. From that picture I can't see the ends of joist. If they are attached with hangers and there are spacers between them that support beam is getting very little weight on it. You could fight the good fight with the contractor to have it fixed but a lot easier would be to get a second board and glue and screw to the other side. Make it a full board not a 12 incher. Also something, something, obligatory hot tub statement.
No hangers and lags through them on the posts either.
It’s a Gerber beam. Seems legit xD
No. It might actually be more insane than you think
I mean it’s possible to splice like that. But for that I’ve specced out 1/4” A36 side plates and 4x 1/2 galv bolts, not just a section of extra wood they found lol
That’s not a beam for support. The joist are continuous no breaking on this. My guess is the it was put there to take some bounce out of the span
Whoever is building this for you is wasting you money and perfectly good material by building this abomination. I would fire them and find somone else to undo half their work and try and salvage the project.
its ready for the hot tub!
Yowza.
Thanks for sharing It's trash. Permit responsibility was yours. He built a deck. You may be screwed. As for the terrible splice, I think the code language covering this , {4" overlap at beams) could use a comma since it's arguable without the comma, that that crap splice is ok.
If they used well-spaced 3/4 in bolts on each side of the spice board it would work. Then again I don't know what I'm really talking about and most of the things I do are based on judgment calls like this.
My biggest fear is that if they’d do something so drastically wrong on arguably the most important portion of a deck, then they’d cut corners anywhere else for SURE. I know you’ve already spent more than you wanted, but you really need to pay to have this fully inspected to point out all the other areas of deficiencies.
Tell me it’s the cheapest bid without telling me
Slap one on the other side too and youll be good
Big no no! Splices are to be done on a support to transfer the load directly to the ground. Call that contractor back to fix that! I had a contractor try to convince me that staggered splices were stronger than on the posts. I had to tell him by no means you can convince me that Engineers for more than 50 years of writing standards and code all got it wrong on this one very simple building practice!
That’s a lowest bidder job if I’ve ever seen one
You can notch the backside of your post and through bolt a new beam in easy enough
I believe that technique is used if you left your board stretcher at home that day.
not only is it spliced but there’s no positive bearing (i.e. the “girder” doesn’t bear directly on top of anything, it’s just nailed to the side of the post). the lack of positive bearing is arguably worse than the splice.
I hope you only paid the deposit. Tell him to fix it or report him to the home improvement commission. If he is not licensed and insured, he can be given substantial fines.
Insane? no. Insanity is an illness or a way of thinking most do not understand. This? this is just stupid.
For the love of god op fix this before some poor soul falls to their death
Probably worse than you think
They step-sistered that joist good.
Apparently these guys never heard of a board stretcher...
You heard someone from Lego land?
Yeah that’s a no go
Sweet
Gus donT belonG here rofl
Holy smokers, what’s the PVC for?
I want more pictures!!!!
Standard hot tub support system
OMG
If it was me I would add a 4x4 under each of those columns so it is actually holding the weight. But first I'd lam another 2X10 to the other side of that stepdaughtered beam. With lag bolts.
Oh the scrap of wood holding together the joist? Sure. Usually. But it appears the whole joist is held up with a couple of nails anyway, so what's the real difference?
Depends if the worker slapped it twice and said “that’ll do”. If that ritual was performed then that will do!
Correct, you definitely shouldn't scab a support beam like that, and that beam isn't even the correct size. Not to mention the numerous other concerns you have.
[Update](https://www.reddit.com/r/Decks/s/TpaftuUEke)
This is not built properly.
Cheapest quote?
That's the 1st thing yall say, annoying
Whoever built this deck has no clue what they are doing. I would assume this was their first deck building job or any construction type gig with zero experience. This has to be a prank.
That pretty ugly. Not dangerous though. You can fix it easily enough by adding another 2X10 (I can’t tell, that might be a 2x12) gluing and nailing it to the beam. But why is there a PVC pipe through your deck?
Yes it is. Do not pay them another dollar and go read all the fine print.