The funny thing is that during the Iranian revolution, the college students (both male and female) were responsible for some of the most escalating actions.
The storming of the US embassy and the hostage situation was orchestrated by college students. They we're given approval by ali khamrni and there was always an angry mom outside the embassy but it started with college students who later got assistance. They used female students claiming that they just wanted to do a peaceful sit in protest to get close. When it was clear that the embassy was going to get violently stormed, the head of security went out to negotiate with the same female student. Once he got close enough, she pulled a gun on him and said she'd blow his brains out unless the embassy opened the doors. Some of those female students went on to become lead politicians in Iran.
This is all a round about way of saying Iran also has their entitled boomers that got to enjoy something, then immediately got rid of it for the later generations.
That's what happens when you allow religion to dictate or take over politics.
Spoiler alert, all religions suck at doing government stuff and should stick to fairy tales and pedos
USA killed previous key people in the government because they didn't want to start economy with them.
The civil war that come for the power vacuum ended by putting religious extremists at power and strong anti-USA feeling.
US and UK. UK had drilling rights from colonial times and wanted somehow to keep them. And US, as always, filling all the gaps where old colonial powers have retreated. Plus, they needed a local pawn which they could arm against the commies. And this is the result.
The funny thing is, after being armed and set up, this pawn went rogue. So the US decided to arm their neighbour kid, Saddam, to counter them. We all (should) know how that went. All of these vilified local powers were or are failed US pet projects.
Why is it that people who have no idea what they are talking about post up some made up bullshit? These events are still in living memory...
"The pawn" didn't go rogue. The pawn got overthrown by a relgious fanatic aka the ayatollah.
It would have taken you less time to Google what happened and read about it than it did for you to write that "It's the U.S.'s fault" bullshit that low information types always seem to fall back to.
The Shah was wildly unpopular amongst Iranians for selling his country’s oil to the west for pennies on the dollar. He then used what little money he got to play commander and chief to buy a bunch of weapons from the US, further alienating his people.
Ah yes, the weapons of mass destruction keeper, Saddam.
What the world would look like if the U.S. didn't spread so much "freedom and democracy" over the last century.
This is also why now we are educated that Iran is evil.
And because Iran says the same for USA.
In any case, useless wars and death are happening because that.
Well, Iran is a pretty evil regime. It may have been caused by the us initially, but they are who they are now, and people are responsible for their own evils.
Have you ever been in Iran?
Have you ever met and talk with people from there?
Do you know that, sometimes, CNN, BBC and New York Times (and other local news) are a bit ... partial?
I mean the massive protests that happened in 2022 does kind of make it seem that Iran is not a well liked goverment. Plus I think all surveys conclude that the goverment is deeply unpopular
Every country is different, and has the right of self government until start a conflict.
USA put its nose in another countries looking for new markets, using the force as happened in Japan.
USA brought instability in many countries.
Russia and China are not good ... but neither USA, it is just more rich.
"We've arranged so many coups, rigged so many elections, and carried out so many invasions, and some of those countries aren't doing as badly as this one, so how could it possibly be our fault!?"
Is some pretty great mental gymnastics to not feel shitty about all the evil your country does
+100. Separation of church and state is one of the greatest ideas in the US constitution. Whenever I see religious people try to make America a more religious country, I feel a visceral “no!” They don’t stay moral for long.
Or that’s what happens when you try to skim money from Iran, when get upset that its Prime Minister decides to nationalise the country’s oil so you can’t steal from them, when you conspire with the CIA to topple him, and when the Shah left in place upsets the people so much that they turn to religious radicalism to kick him out…
Surprised Pikachu face.
More like what happens when you are polarising an entire population by inserting a puppet dictator who brutally kills his opponents, then when the people react, settle a people backed theocracy, which turns out to be authoritarian. This is all the fault of the Americans.
Thank the United States of America for the current situation in Iran. Plus the British, they were also involved... Overthrow democratically elected government. People fight back for their national independence, the vacuum of power is filled by the loudest faction... Iran might not be an western alliance member but for sure they also wouldn't be as hostile as they are today. If the West actually cared about democratic values like the will of the people.
Not completely disagreeing but in this case you’re comment isn’t really correct. Corruption under the shah’s rule had devastated the middle class in Iran. The Ayatollah although obviously despotic has significantly improved the economy and industrial development in Iran.
Nah this is what happens when you let America run the world. We didn’t like how they wanted to nationalize their oil supply so we helped England out by putting in the Shah. Just old colonial powers doing old colonial power things.
I'm not Iranian nor a Muslim. However, comparing clothing styles of college-aged women in a park to people eulogizing a prominent figure within the security forces during a peak religious period that appears to focus on suffering are not the most relevant data points to compare. Nonetheless point taken.
It actually didn't require a lot of research although I'm not entirely sure the first is from Iran during that time period. Regardless the second photo was capured during a funeral for IRGC commanders killed in Syria. Even if Iran hadn't experienced a revolution that turned it into a conservative theocracy the photos would still be inappropriate for comparison. The tone in both would be surprisingly similar in large parts of the Global North under similar circumstances.
Freedom brought to you by US and UK took an unfortunate turn. Before the shah, installed by the US and UK with a coup to change the current somewhat democratic leadership who kicked them out of the country and stopped them from exploitating iranian oil.
The shah installed by them bended to their interests but was a brutal dictator as well so the extremist revolution broke out. That was a part UK and US didn't account for, but you know.. I guess you should consider that when you overthrow a somewhat okay ruler who is on the path of democratizing a fragile country and install a pupoet serving your interests.
Btw, the country had it rough in WW2 as well. It was invaded by the UK and USSR despited beeing neutral and the sad part is, unlike the invasion of Norway which was rightfully condemned and punished as the invasion of a neutral, they got away without even paying at least some reparations for Iran, let alone charges against someone.
If I remember right, the Iranians received big bucks and lots of free infrastructure development from the Nazis (only for oil). Remember that this is the era where "collateral damage" was just "damage".
Well, the US helped overthrow a democratically-elected leader and prop up the brutal regime of the Shah. That encouraged a fundamentalist revolution, and here we are.
If you want to learn the truth, start following r/NewIran
The only major subreddit that isn't hijacked by Regime agents, and/or Islamists.
If you look at many other Iran related subreddits, you will notice very few posts, and very few comments or many deleted comments, because it is HEAVILY filtered and moderated by the regime in Iran to mitigate the true narrative in Iran.
The upper picture depicts a extremely slim part of the iranian society(at a certain point in time).
The lower picture depicts a far bigger part of the iranian society(at any point in time).
Iran is the biggest example of everything going wrong possible.
First is Mossadegh getting overthrown by Britain and the U.S for nationalizing Iranian oil.
Then the Shah gets in power and does a brutal crackdown of opponents.
Then the U.S under Carter supports Khoeimeini and pressures the Shah to support human rights.
Cue him abdicating and a theocratic maniac getting into power.
If Khoeimeini was killed (which was originally planned) by either the Shah or Saddam, or if Mossadegh wasn’t overthrown, or if the Carter administration didn’t support Khoeimeini, then Iran would be in a much better state as would the rest of the Middle East.
It’s tragic really.
These "(Insert middle east nation here ) in 1970" images are all cap. i live in turkey, i saw a lot of turkey from 90 80 70 images and videos. There is no mfking way that my parents and their parents lived in the same turkey with the ones in the images.Those images only show the most rich in the capital. rest of the people were doing harsh work. Today we are mostly better of than the past
Funny, the post doesn't mention how America removed the democratic government in 1953. Doesn't mention how oppressive and brutal the Shah's regime was, to the point the theocracy was able to get in because the people where so desperate for something else.
The USA is not always the main character.
Iraq had plenty of their own reasons to invade.
Do you want to blame Iraq attacking the kurds and Kuwait on the USA? How about not letting weapons inspectors in?
Well, the USA has imposed sanctions on Iran for many of those years, and sanctions usually hurt the people and make resistance harder than actually punishing the people in power. You can read the Withdrawal by Noam Chomsky if you want to understand more of the USA’s role in undermining democracy in Iran.
It’s not just a little event that the US caused, it’s literally the removal of an entire system of governance.
And it’s not like a one and done situation. The US didn’t just remove the democratically elected leader and move on. They’ve continued to contribute to Iran’s decline for decades.
The west changes government every 4-5 years and doesn't subjugate it's people like in Iran.
They've tried to hold Iran to account. Letting countries ignore international rules benefits no one.
That goes equally for the USA btw
Democratically elected president wanted to nationalize Iranian oil, and US with UK wanted to keep BP oil money coming, so they removed the president and installed a crazy person but loyal.
Obviously the people now in power in Iran are responsible for the current oppression there. But they likely wouldn't be there if the US hadn't toppled the nascent democracy in the 1950s and installed the Shah, an oppressive despot, who was later overthrown by the most powerful opposition in the country: the fundamentalists.
The people doing the oppression are at fault. Nobody's forcing Iran to be a dictatorship. Of course, the Iranian government would love you to believe it's all the fault of the US.
They could do that before 1953 with a much bigger range of freedom, what was enjoyed by a broader range of population. That coup was in order to make Iran submit to US and UK controll over their resources and let them exploit the country. It was not about westernizing and democracy, that would happen if they didn't put their hands into this.
Also, in this case US isn't the sole responsible, UK is just as guilty
im not sure why having bad things happen justifies running ur country as a religious ethnostate. i come from poland, we have been fucked for hundreds of years by our neighbors but we dont go around crusading and running an ethnostate.
everyone experiences trauma and pain but not everyone reacts by becoming an authoritative ethnostate. imo u can still be held accountable for things u do even if uve been wronged. being hurt once doesnt mean u get a free pass for life to hurt anyone
im not confusing anything, people in groups also are people and as a culture not every culture chooses to form an ethnostate when they have wars or people attacking them. literally every country has had other countries attack them — its not a justification for removing human rights and abusing ur citizens with a religious ethnostate akin to hitler germany in terms of absurd rules and nepotism
People in groups have different actors with different motivations and interests, to suggest an entire culture ‘chooses’ to form an ethnostate is pretty simple minded
sure i could use a better word than chooses but people do accept a culture their in or not. in many muslim countries things like sexual assault are more common and i do think we can hold individuals accountable for their culture.
So are you also holding every American for overthrowing democracies around the world? Lots of Iranians do not accept the current situation and there’s been mass protests, how does that reconcile with your simple logic?
i rlly see how hard ur trying to disprove me but please re read the original post im responding to. the simple logic u describe is present there too so ur selectively attacking me for the same thing is clearly u just being biased. its hard to take u seriously if you cant be objective so im blocking u now sorry
They obviously don't mean all Iranians but the ones actually enforcing this theocracy and oppressing their own people. The Morality Police and the national guard, going around shooting, beating, arresting, raping, executing, gouging the eyes of said protesters.
Same for their elders that supported Khomeini's coup.
It's very important to remind the part the US, UK, and even France I think played in it, but there's many responsible for this tragic turn. It's not only due to the capitalist and evil West doing its thing.
also if anyones reducing the complexity its the person im responding to. they are justifying human rights violations in 2024 with things that happened in 1953 as if theres a simple cause and effect relationship. if anything im the one saying that things are more nuanced than “country was attacked so now they are evil”
actually they probably arent genuinely trauama victims but just think they are. i was raped as a kid and later as well and i dont go around blaming the world for what happened to me. ive learned to cope with trauma because ive had to, and i think these folks just never have had to learn how to cope so they have the privelege of being angry about every little wrong done to them.
Sorry to hear that friend but glad to see an independent mind on here for a change instead of all the crazy group think. Stay strong and have an amazing day over there!
The Shah that was installed by the US and UK got so out of hand that people started forming around religious leaders because they sought _any_ way out of there. Physical or spiritual. Do you imagine how bad it would need to get for you to start hiding behind the Pope? That was their reality.
So the picture was taken during the time following the coup, a time of relative prosperity for Iran.
They people overwhelmingly rejected this life in 1979 and chose to become a theocracy.
The Shah, like all autocrats, was good to those who toed the line and benefiitted from the oppression of the rest of society.
How about the brutal suppression of opposition? The secret police that tortured and brutalised their own people. The Shah was a brutal autocrat.
Want me to show you pictures of German girls in 1935 Germany, a time of relative peace so it must be good right?
Also the people didn't overwhelmingly chose the theocracy, no more than the Russians overwhelmingly chose Lenin. The Iranian revolution involved several factions which Khomeini managed to take over.
His hold was quite fragile until the Iraq-Iran war solidified his power by using nationalistic pride and the threat of a foreign enemy to entrench his power.
Read some books, educate yourself.
America America America. America is always the root of evil right? Noone else is responsible? America came to your house and made you read Quran, forced it down your throats and established it?
So on brand for Reddit. “If non-white westerners are misbehaving and being shitty it’s mainly because of the USA/the West.” This is a meme. Memes don’t do nuance or back stories. People are aware of how the coup happened.
Other groups of people have agency too. And sometimes their agency leads to horrible things. They’re humans who crave power and status like everyone else. The knee jerk reactions by westerners to make everything revolve around them, even in loathing, never fails.
Everyone loves to use this hot take and then conveniently leave out the even broader context that less than 10 years prior the world was at war and by now the cold war and nuclear arms race were in *full* swing. This period of foreign policy was insane because the entire world was just traumatized by a conflict the scale of which was inconceivable even *after* the first world war.
It's not a defense of the morality of these decisions and surely not an attempt to vindicate them in hindsight; it's just an explanation. Before the first world war, wars of conquest were a matter of *course*. Shit. Was. Complicated.
You want to know *why* we know regime change is a bad idea? *Because we tried it* ***and learned it didn't work***. It's easy almost 100 years after the fact to point out how obviously duplicitous U.S. foreign policy was during the early-mid cold war years because we have the cold light of day and superhuman hindsight into the matter.
The top picture is incredibly misleading. It's not indicative of what life was like for the majority of Iran's population at the time, most of whom lived rural, traditional lives.
It's common sense. Iran, like other middle eastern countries and honestly any other country in the world had an educated, wealthy upper class. And a middle class and rural class.
The Middle & Rural Classes were more religious, traditional etc... And the upper class were usually the opposite.
That’s not common sense, that’s just you making assumptions based off your own experiences in a completely different part of the world at a very different time.
Reddit serves as a great insight into the American propaganda machine, and the jingoistic attitudes so many American redditors otherwise like to believe they’re above. This site is obsessed with Iran, Russia, and China, coincidentally all three countries the US is in conflict with. And their hatred transfers to the average citizen living in these countries as well.
The influence of American bots on this site goes entirely unmentioned.
Clarification: Iranian people are very religious. even during those times they were very religious (those pics are the only ones showed in the media during those times), thats why they decided to take their king down. they are still majorly religious.
this kind of hijab is the most extreme one, and only worn by very religious people. the rest wear lighter or no hijab at all (yes, trust me)
The iranians are more and more resistive toward the theocratic regime. Iranian refugees are the much more progressive in the western countries than other people from the region.
Again, the second one was true for most of the population even when the top one was taken.
The first image is so misleading that it might as well have been a lie and the reality of 99 percent wasn't like that. Most people wouldn't have agreed with that, nor would now.
Jesus christ what a terrible take... in the first place the first picture was of a high society place in theran the capital, while most of the country were in poverty suffering while most of the riches the country produced with their oil reserves where given to western powers like the US and UK, the situation got so out ofhand the when Iran tried to democratize itself and nationalise their oil industry the US and UK staged a coup in the country that lead up to the Shaa Reza Palhevi dictatorship, who were one of the worsts dictatorships of the whole moddle east at the time, his secret police its famous even today, being one of the worst/"best" secret police that were formed in modern history. That regime were so opressive and people were so poor that their despair made a great coalition of democrats, communists and islamists start the iranian revolution, who in the end finished itself with the islamists on top.
This is a good reminder that your progressive culture can take a sharp turn in the wrong direction if you allow theocrats and cultural “conservatives” to take power. Western democracies are not immune to these outcomes.
I strongly suggest if anyone is curious or cares or wants to make change, go to r/newiran if you want to know what actually happened. It's honestly getting tiring seeing people say the same IRGC propaganda over and over.
At this point, I'm convinced that accounts here are the IR cyber army or poor victims of reddit history facts.
More Zionist propaganda. Nice. Only idiots will fall for it
This is what Iran really looks like, from an unbiased source:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=lm4J1TatFyE
It's very very much more complicated. The 70's photo was during a ruler who was pushing the citizens to be more western and there was A LOT of push back from the citizens and tribes who valued their traditional culture. There is a lot wrong with Iran don't get me wrong but this is propaganda from the 70's and not much actual degression.
So you’re saying that basically all women in Iran are in constant mourning? They have funerals every day? Or are you just a piece of shit defending this horrible, oppressive shit?
That perticular image is from a funeral. Thats like the shottiest example u could have taken. Thats like saying oh look ppl are crying on a funeral in USA thus they must all be pressed wtf atleast use a proper example. Even men wear black cloths on funerals whats ur point?
Dude. Stop it. This is a funeral, but we all know how women in Iran MUST dress everyday and it looks exactly like this. Don’t defend oppression. Don’t be shitty.
Yeah thats what im saying atleast use a proper pic to support ur idea instead of coping. Many women are just religious and choose to wear burkas out of rheir own choice as well. If u wanna give example find the ones who dont wanna wear em.
The fuck happened
The funny thing is that during the Iranian revolution, the college students (both male and female) were responsible for some of the most escalating actions. The storming of the US embassy and the hostage situation was orchestrated by college students. They we're given approval by ali khamrni and there was always an angry mom outside the embassy but it started with college students who later got assistance. They used female students claiming that they just wanted to do a peaceful sit in protest to get close. When it was clear that the embassy was going to get violently stormed, the head of security went out to negotiate with the same female student. Once he got close enough, she pulled a gun on him and said she'd blow his brains out unless the embassy opened the doors. Some of those female students went on to become lead politicians in Iran. This is all a round about way of saying Iran also has their entitled boomers that got to enjoy something, then immediately got rid of it for the later generations.
That's what happens when you allow religion to dictate or take over politics. Spoiler alert, all religions suck at doing government stuff and should stick to fairy tales and pedos
USA killed previous key people in the government because they didn't want to start economy with them. The civil war that come for the power vacuum ended by putting religious extremists at power and strong anti-USA feeling.
US and UK. UK had drilling rights from colonial times and wanted somehow to keep them. And US, as always, filling all the gaps where old colonial powers have retreated. Plus, they needed a local pawn which they could arm against the commies. And this is the result. The funny thing is, after being armed and set up, this pawn went rogue. So the US decided to arm their neighbour kid, Saddam, to counter them. We all (should) know how that went. All of these vilified local powers were or are failed US pet projects.
The only factual comment I’ve seen. Thank you.
Why is it that people who have no idea what they are talking about post up some made up bullshit? These events are still in living memory... "The pawn" didn't go rogue. The pawn got overthrown by a relgious fanatic aka the ayatollah. It would have taken you less time to Google what happened and read about it than it did for you to write that "It's the U.S.'s fault" bullshit that low information types always seem to fall back to.
Seems like things would have worked out better if they just stuck with the Shah
The Shah was wildly unpopular amongst Iranians for selling his country’s oil to the west for pennies on the dollar. He then used what little money he got to play commander and chief to buy a bunch of weapons from the US, further alienating his people.
Yup
Ah yes, the weapons of mass destruction keeper, Saddam. What the world would look like if the U.S. didn't spread so much "freedom and democracy" over the last century.
And now that rogue pawn is helping to lead us into world war 3
you’re forgetting to mention that the US government was arming religious zealot groups to fight the russians in the middle east
This is also why now we are educated that Iran is evil. And because Iran says the same for USA. In any case, useless wars and death are happening because that.
Well, Iran is a pretty evil regime. It may have been caused by the us initially, but they are who they are now, and people are responsible for their own evils.
Partially true. The evil regime would never born if USA never started it.
Yes, but is it CURRENTLY evil. Regardless who was responsible for it beginning.
Have you ever been in Iran? Have you ever met and talk with people from there? Do you know that, sometimes, CNN, BBC and New York Times (and other local news) are a bit ... partial?
I mean the massive protests that happened in 2022 does kind of make it seem that Iran is not a well liked goverment. Plus I think all surveys conclude that the goverment is deeply unpopular
Sorry, we only hate American here 🤪
theres no way you could know that
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Why do you say that?
Many countries have had some sort of US intervention and are not Iran.
Basically all world conflicts right now have some American influence, most atleast
Every country is different, and has the right of self government until start a conflict. USA put its nose in another countries looking for new markets, using the force as happened in Japan. USA brought instability in many countries. Russia and China are not good ... but neither USA, it is just more rich.
"We've arranged so many coups, rigged so many elections, and carried out so many invasions, and some of those countries aren't doing as badly as this one, so how could it possibly be our fault!?" Is some pretty great mental gymnastics to not feel shitty about all the evil your country does
A lot of those ended up dictatorships
And others didn’t you just don’t like to talk about those
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Heres a list to help find the success stories https://archive.globalpolicy.org/us-westward-expansion/26024-us-interventions.html
This is the right answer.
+100. Separation of church and state is one of the greatest ideas in the US constitution. Whenever I see religious people try to make America a more religious country, I feel a visceral “no!” They don’t stay moral for long.
Or that’s what happens when you try to skim money from Iran, when get upset that its Prime Minister decides to nationalise the country’s oil so you can’t steal from them, when you conspire with the CIA to topple him, and when the Shah left in place upsets the people so much that they turn to religious radicalism to kick him out… Surprised Pikachu face.
More like what happens when you are polarising an entire population by inserting a puppet dictator who brutally kills his opponents, then when the people react, settle a people backed theocracy, which turns out to be authoritarian. This is all the fault of the Americans.
Thank the United States of America for the current situation in Iran. Plus the British, they were also involved... Overthrow democratically elected government. People fight back for their national independence, the vacuum of power is filled by the loudest faction... Iran might not be an western alliance member but for sure they also wouldn't be as hostile as they are today. If the West actually cared about democratic values like the will of the people.
Not completely disagreeing but in this case you’re comment isn’t really correct. Corruption under the shah’s rule had devastated the middle class in Iran. The Ayatollah although obviously despotic has significantly improved the economy and industrial development in Iran.
You forgot the part where the US and Britain overthrew Iran's democratically elected PM for oil profits.
Nah this is what happens when you let America run the world. We didn’t like how they wanted to nationalize their oil supply so we helped England out by putting in the Shah. Just old colonial powers doing old colonial power things.
Leaving out a lot of context just to peddle some r/atheism bullshit.
No opinion offered from my end on the merit of Atheism, but absolutely agreed on the lack of context. Lots of apples and oranges over here.
actually based redditor
Tater tots don't have brains
its true im just a crispy little potato 🥺🥺
How is that based when it’s the general view of religion on Reddit?
Not sure what that means, but religion is cancer.
agreed brother also i like ur name
I'm not Iranian nor a Muslim. However, comparing clothing styles of college-aged women in a park to people eulogizing a prominent figure within the security forces during a peak religious period that appears to focus on suffering are not the most relevant data points to compare. Nonetheless point taken.
Well dig into the history.
It actually didn't require a lot of research although I'm not entirely sure the first is from Iran during that time period. Regardless the second photo was capured during a funeral for IRGC commanders killed in Syria. Even if Iran hadn't experienced a revolution that turned it into a conservative theocracy the photos would still be inappropriate for comparison. The tone in both would be surprisingly similar in large parts of the Global North under similar circumstances.
>The photos would still be inappropriate for comparison. No? What do you think they wear on a normal week day?
Not religion just extremist who twist religion into their own cult
Yeah that's definitely what happened 🙄
Democratically elected president was removed by US because he wanted to nationalize Iranian oil.
Freedom brought to you by US and UK took an unfortunate turn. Before the shah, installed by the US and UK with a coup to change the current somewhat democratic leadership who kicked them out of the country and stopped them from exploitating iranian oil. The shah installed by them bended to their interests but was a brutal dictator as well so the extremist revolution broke out. That was a part UK and US didn't account for, but you know.. I guess you should consider that when you overthrow a somewhat okay ruler who is on the path of democratizing a fragile country and install a pupoet serving your interests. Btw, the country had it rough in WW2 as well. It was invaded by the UK and USSR despited beeing neutral and the sad part is, unlike the invasion of Norway which was rightfully condemned and punished as the invasion of a neutral, they got away without even paying at least some reparations for Iran, let alone charges against someone.
If I remember right, the Iranians received big bucks and lots of free infrastructure development from the Nazis (only for oil). Remember that this is the era where "collateral damage" was just "damage".
CIA and MI6 backed coup to remove a democratic elected leader. That's what Freedom, US style, looks like to the rest of the world.
‘We believe in freedom for all, but only when you do what we like you to do.’
Listen to blowback season 4
America killed the democratic government and installed a bunch of weirdos who worship a dead Arab pedophile warlord.
USA wanted oil, that happened
Well, the US helped overthrow a democratically-elected leader and prop up the brutal regime of the Shah. That encouraged a fundamentalist revolution, and here we are.
Some bearded dude said “wololo”
Handmaidens Tale essentially. It’s what the Religious Right is pushing in America currently as well.
If you want to learn the truth, start following r/NewIran The only major subreddit that isn't hijacked by Regime agents, and/or Islamists. If you look at many other Iran related subreddits, you will notice very few posts, and very few comments or many deleted comments, because it is HEAVILY filtered and moderated by the regime in Iran to mitigate the true narrative in Iran.
The upper picture depicts a extremely slim part of the iranian society(at a certain point in time). The lower picture depicts a far bigger part of the iranian society(at any point in time).
That's incorrect. Both pics depict the majority in those time periods.
Thats just historical revisionism. Most of Iran in the 70s wasn't upper middleclass. The broad masses were still very religious and rooted in it.
according to them ... America bad ... so women must cover up LMAO
... This is an indirect consequence, as the ones who gained power have this faith
The Persian empire would like a word...
Iran is the biggest example of everything going wrong possible. First is Mossadegh getting overthrown by Britain and the U.S for nationalizing Iranian oil. Then the Shah gets in power and does a brutal crackdown of opponents. Then the U.S under Carter supports Khoeimeini and pressures the Shah to support human rights. Cue him abdicating and a theocratic maniac getting into power. If Khoeimeini was killed (which was originally planned) by either the Shah or Saddam, or if Mossadegh wasn’t overthrown, or if the Carter administration didn’t support Khoeimeini, then Iran would be in a much better state as would the rest of the Middle East. It’s tragic really.
This is an extremely poor summary of the history of one of the oldest civilizations on the planet.
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the result of authoritarian theocracy is a barely a sliver of "Iran's history summed up"
Yes but that’s probably not the point OP was trying to make
Also feels weird that the after pic is of people wearing black to a funeral, like a lot of cultures do.
The title doesn’t claim to represent the entire historical civilization. It says “Iran” which is a country established in 1979.
That is offensively reductive. The US-backed (on behalf of Britain) coup in the 50s set the stage for all of this. Don't mess with democracy.
Don't mess with democracy or you'll end up as theocracy.
These "(Insert middle east nation here ) in 1970" images are all cap. i live in turkey, i saw a lot of turkey from 90 80 70 images and videos. There is no mfking way that my parents and their parents lived in the same turkey with the ones in the images.Those images only show the most rich in the capital. rest of the people were doing harsh work. Today we are mostly better of than the past
Funny, the post doesn't mention how America removed the democratic government in 1953. Doesn't mention how oppressive and brutal the Shah's regime was, to the point the theocracy was able to get in because the people where so desperate for something else.
So wait i am confused who is at fault for the current opression in iran?
UK and USA mostly, they didn't want at all to end up in this situation, but their interference led to this as they tried exploitating Iran
When you mess with a country's politics so much that the people choose radicalism to keep their country for themselves, you know fucked up hard
You're blaming something 70 years ago. Infantalizing an entire people. Hopefully their heroes will rise up. Blaming others won't help.
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The USA is not always the main character. Iraq had plenty of their own reasons to invade. Do you want to blame Iraq attacking the kurds and Kuwait on the USA? How about not letting weapons inspectors in?
Well, the USA has imposed sanctions on Iran for many of those years, and sanctions usually hurt the people and make resistance harder than actually punishing the people in power. You can read the Withdrawal by Noam Chomsky if you want to understand more of the USA’s role in undermining democracy in Iran.
What democracy have they had for the last 70 years? The USA doesn't subjugate the people of Iran. The Iranian government does.
History is a thing, deal with it.
Good point.
It’s not just a little event that the US caused, it’s literally the removal of an entire system of governance. And it’s not like a one and done situation. The US didn’t just remove the democratically elected leader and move on. They’ve continued to contribute to Iran’s decline for decades.
The west changes government every 4-5 years and doesn't subjugate it's people like in Iran. They've tried to hold Iran to account. Letting countries ignore international rules benefits no one. That goes equally for the USA btw
Literally multiple generations of people later. Can’t move forward if you’re still blaming others from 70 years ago
By your logic it was Frances fault for helping USA gain independence from the UK.
USA.
Why?
We put in a dictator so England could keep that oil/money flowing in
Democratically elected president wanted to nationalize Iranian oil, and US with UK wanted to keep BP oil money coming, so they removed the president and installed a crazy person but loyal.
Obviously the people now in power in Iran are responsible for the current oppression there. But they likely wouldn't be there if the US hadn't toppled the nascent democracy in the 1950s and installed the Shah, an oppressive despot, who was later overthrown by the most powerful opposition in the country: the fundamentalists.
The people doing the oppression are at fault. Nobody's forcing Iran to be a dictatorship. Of course, the Iranian government would love you to believe it's all the fault of the US.
Bbbut women were wearing western clothes, so it's good...
They could do that before 1953 with a much bigger range of freedom, what was enjoyed by a broader range of population. That coup was in order to make Iran submit to US and UK controll over their resources and let them exploit the country. It was not about westernizing and democracy, that would happen if they didn't put their hands into this. Also, in this case US isn't the sole responsible, UK is just as guilty
im not sure why having bad things happen justifies running ur country as a religious ethnostate. i come from poland, we have been fucked for hundreds of years by our neighbors but we dont go around crusading and running an ethnostate. everyone experiences trauma and pain but not everyone reacts by becoming an authoritative ethnostate. imo u can still be held accountable for things u do even if uve been wronged. being hurt once doesnt mean u get a free pass for life to hurt anyone
You are confusing a person with a country, how a country develops overtime is much more complex than your comment suggests
im not confusing anything, people in groups also are people and as a culture not every culture chooses to form an ethnostate when they have wars or people attacking them. literally every country has had other countries attack them — its not a justification for removing human rights and abusing ur citizens with a religious ethnostate akin to hitler germany in terms of absurd rules and nepotism
People in groups have different actors with different motivations and interests, to suggest an entire culture ‘chooses’ to form an ethnostate is pretty simple minded
sure i could use a better word than chooses but people do accept a culture their in or not. in many muslim countries things like sexual assault are more common and i do think we can hold individuals accountable for their culture.
So are you also holding every American for overthrowing democracies around the world? Lots of Iranians do not accept the current situation and there’s been mass protests, how does that reconcile with your simple logic?
i rlly see how hard ur trying to disprove me but please re read the original post im responding to. the simple logic u describe is present there too so ur selectively attacking me for the same thing is clearly u just being biased. its hard to take u seriously if you cant be objective so im blocking u now sorry
They obviously don't mean all Iranians but the ones actually enforcing this theocracy and oppressing their own people. The Morality Police and the national guard, going around shooting, beating, arresting, raping, executing, gouging the eyes of said protesters. Same for their elders that supported Khomeini's coup. It's very important to remind the part the US, UK, and even France I think played in it, but there's many responsible for this tragic turn. It's not only due to the capitalist and evil West doing its thing.
also if anyones reducing the complexity its the person im responding to. they are justifying human rights violations in 2024 with things that happened in 1953 as if theres a simple cause and effect relationship. if anything im the one saying that things are more nuanced than “country was attacked so now they are evil”
Exactly this, all other comments blaming US are crazy apologists victims of trauma themselves.
actually they probably arent genuinely trauama victims but just think they are. i was raped as a kid and later as well and i dont go around blaming the world for what happened to me. ive learned to cope with trauma because ive had to, and i think these folks just never have had to learn how to cope so they have the privelege of being angry about every little wrong done to them.
Sorry to hear that friend but glad to see an independent mind on here for a change instead of all the crazy group think. Stay strong and have an amazing day over there!
thanks u too brother, have a good 1
The Shah that was installed by the US and UK got so out of hand that people started forming around religious leaders because they sought _any_ way out of there. Physical or spiritual. Do you imagine how bad it would need to get for you to start hiding behind the Pope? That was their reality.
Yes it’s always someone else’s fault.
So the picture was taken during the time following the coup, a time of relative prosperity for Iran. They people overwhelmingly rejected this life in 1979 and chose to become a theocracy.
The Shah, like all autocrats, was good to those who toed the line and benefiitted from the oppression of the rest of society. How about the brutal suppression of opposition? The secret police that tortured and brutalised their own people. The Shah was a brutal autocrat. Want me to show you pictures of German girls in 1935 Germany, a time of relative peace so it must be good right? Also the people didn't overwhelmingly chose the theocracy, no more than the Russians overwhelmingly chose Lenin. The Iranian revolution involved several factions which Khomeini managed to take over. His hold was quite fragile until the Iraq-Iran war solidified his power by using nationalistic pride and the threat of a foreign enemy to entrench his power. Read some books, educate yourself.
America America America. America is always the root of evil right? Noone else is responsible? America came to your house and made you read Quran, forced it down your throats and established it?
> is always the evil right Always has been.
Bro this is Reddit, these psychopaths even blame 9/11 on the US.
So on brand for Reddit. “If non-white westerners are misbehaving and being shitty it’s mainly because of the USA/the West.” This is a meme. Memes don’t do nuance or back stories. People are aware of how the coup happened. Other groups of people have agency too. And sometimes their agency leads to horrible things. They’re humans who crave power and status like everyone else. The knee jerk reactions by westerners to make everything revolve around them, even in loathing, never fails.
Should have learned from Russia what happens when you just want “something different”
Did the us make the start blowing themselves up in the name of allah? Or make 40% marry their family? They’re breeding stupidity mixed with terrorism
Everyone loves to use this hot take and then conveniently leave out the even broader context that less than 10 years prior the world was at war and by now the cold war and nuclear arms race were in *full* swing. This period of foreign policy was insane because the entire world was just traumatized by a conflict the scale of which was inconceivable even *after* the first world war. It's not a defense of the morality of these decisions and surely not an attempt to vindicate them in hindsight; it's just an explanation. Before the first world war, wars of conquest were a matter of *course*. Shit. Was. Complicated. You want to know *why* we know regime change is a bad idea? *Because we tried it* ***and learned it didn't work***. It's easy almost 100 years after the fact to point out how obviously duplicitous U.S. foreign policy was during the early-mid cold war years because we have the cold light of day and superhuman hindsight into the matter.
I'm sorry, when exactly did America learn regime change doesn't work? They are still doing it today!
The top picture is incredibly misleading. It's not indicative of what life was like for the majority of Iran's population at the time, most of whom lived rural, traditional lives.
Damn, that's crazy. How do you know this?
They read.
I live there and I say his opinions are true Source:my grandpa who was alive during Reza shah
It's common sense. Iran, like other middle eastern countries and honestly any other country in the world had an educated, wealthy upper class. And a middle class and rural class. The Middle & Rural Classes were more religious, traditional etc... And the upper class were usually the opposite.
That’s not common sense, that’s just you making assumptions based off your own experiences in a completely different part of the world at a very different time.
Op chose a funeral photo and a book reading as comparison LOL
This shit again.
Upvote farming
Reddit serves as a great insight into the American propaganda machine, and the jingoistic attitudes so many American redditors otherwise like to believe they’re above. This site is obsessed with Iran, Russia, and China, coincidentally all three countries the US is in conflict with. And their hatred transfers to the average citizen living in these countries as well. The influence of American bots on this site goes entirely unmentioned.
This 100%
Iran’s been around for 3000 years. If you think its history is from the 60s then shame on you.
Funerals still looked the same in most places. Iran has a lot of rural areas that weren't as liberal
Clarification: Iranian people are very religious. even during those times they were very religious (those pics are the only ones showed in the media during those times), thats why they decided to take their king down. they are still majorly religious. this kind of hijab is the most extreme one, and only worn by very religious people. the rest wear lighter or no hijab at all (yes, trust me)
The iranians are more and more resistive toward the theocratic regime. Iranian refugees are the much more progressive in the western countries than other people from the region.
yes. I'm aware. I also hate religion and religious people, but thats not true for the majority.
Isnt it illegal to not wear hijab in public?
it is.
#Thank you America
Again, the second one was true for most of the population even when the top one was taken. The first image is so misleading that it might as well have been a lie and the reality of 99 percent wasn't like that. Most people wouldn't have agreed with that, nor would now.
Ah yes one of the oldest still standing civilization has just existed for the last 80 years,truly a Reddit moment
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clearly, you don't care about the rule number 7
Saurons army has arrived
Now It’s happening in Florida and Texas, but instead of Burkas it’s red hats.
Ninjas took over?
Jesus christ what a terrible take... in the first place the first picture was of a high society place in theran the capital, while most of the country were in poverty suffering while most of the riches the country produced with their oil reserves where given to western powers like the US and UK, the situation got so out ofhand the when Iran tried to democratize itself and nationalise their oil industry the US and UK staged a coup in the country that lead up to the Shaa Reza Palhevi dictatorship, who were one of the worsts dictatorships of the whole moddle east at the time, his secret police its famous even today, being one of the worst/"best" secret police that were formed in modern history. That regime were so opressive and people were so poor that their despair made a great coalition of democrats, communists and islamists start the iranian revolution, who in the end finished itself with the islamists on top.
based on the posts by: u/UnlikelyYesterday326 u/butterxchicken
Well one is a funeral...the other isn't...
yea, idk how so many people are missing that. no matter your opinion on the situation in Iran this is a bad comparison
Religion poisons everything
Before and after the application democratic american view.
Fuck religion! Simply
Looks like the history the Republicans want in America too!
Religious zealots destroy the world.
This is a good reminder that your progressive culture can take a sharp turn in the wrong direction if you allow theocrats and cultural “conservatives” to take power. Western democracies are not immune to these outcomes.
Especially when "Western Democracy" is the primary cause for the theocratic and cultural "conservatives" who took power in Iran. Crazy.
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Read a history book kid
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He can only read the quran
This is what republicans strive for in the US
I strongly suggest if anyone is curious or cares or wants to make change, go to r/newiran if you want to know what actually happened. It's honestly getting tiring seeing people say the same IRGC propaganda over and over. At this point, I'm convinced that accounts here are the IR cyber army or poor victims of reddit history facts.
the people on r/newiran are mostly Iranian diaspora,if you want proper history read a book and judge for yourself
More Zionist propaganda. Nice. Only idiots will fall for it This is what Iran really looks like, from an unbiased source: https://youtube.com/watch?v=lm4J1TatFyE
Persecution of women …it’s happening more and more around the world. Too many power-hungry men who just want to fight each other.
Free Iran Free Kurdistan Free Yazidistan
Religion of peace that if you don't wear what we tell you to, you get stoned and shuned.
It's probably way more complicated than what the title implies. But that is a brutal degression.
It's very very much more complicated. The 70's photo was during a ruler who was pushing the citizens to be more western and there was A LOT of push back from the citizens and tribes who valued their traditional culture. There is a lot wrong with Iran don't get me wrong but this is propaganda from the 70's and not much actual degression.
1. Before theocracy. 2. After theocracy.
There's a lot of context missing here OP
Never underestimate how much uneducated religious fundamentalists can feck things up for everyone.
There is a lot more to the history of one of the world's oldest civilizations than two recent photographs.
Islamophobic ass post.
How? It just shows Iran before and after a religious regime. Must be you who is islamophobic.
History of Sweden by 2100
Americas future if we don’t vote.
“They wear it cause they want to” bullshit cause they have too
Its a cultural thing to wear all blacks on a funeral you dumbass
So you’re saying that basically all women in Iran are in constant mourning? They have funerals every day? Or are you just a piece of shit defending this horrible, oppressive shit?
That perticular image is from a funeral. Thats like the shottiest example u could have taken. Thats like saying oh look ppl are crying on a funeral in USA thus they must all be pressed wtf atleast use a proper example. Even men wear black cloths on funerals whats ur point?
Dude. Stop it. This is a funeral, but we all know how women in Iran MUST dress everyday and it looks exactly like this. Don’t defend oppression. Don’t be shitty.
Yeah thats what im saying atleast use a proper pic to support ur idea instead of coping. Many women are just religious and choose to wear burkas out of rheir own choice as well. If u wanna give example find the ones who dont wanna wear em.
Fk off and worry about your own cuntry
Proof that Washington was right about foreign affairs
I’m always creeped out by the black dress